Hansard: NCOP: Debate on Local Government: “Moving with utmost speed to provide sanitation to our people and to eliminate the bucket system
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 26 Aug 2014
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Tuesday, 26 August 2014 Take: 72
TUESDAY, 26 AUGUST 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
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The Council met at 14:02.
THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
PETITION RECEIVED IN CONNECTION WITH ALLEGED ILLEGAL EVICTION BY MALUTI-A-PHOFUNG LOCAL MUNICIPALITY
(Announcement)
THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I would like to announce, in terms of Rule 233, that the Council has received a petition regarding the alleged illegal eviction by Maluti-A-Phofung Local Municipality. The petition has been referred to the Select Committee on Petitions and Executive Undertakings.
NOTICES OF MOTION
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON
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NOTICES OF MOTION
Mrs E C VAN LINGEN: I hereby give notice on behalf of the DA that, at the next sitting of the Council, I shall move:
That the Council-
(1) notes and debates that-
- the financial and administrative functions of the Makana Local Municipality that have collapsed completely;
- a creditor has attached the bank account of this municipality;
- the main water supply pipe burst on Wednesday 20 August and again in the same place on Friday, 22 August, and Grahamstown has been without water since last Friday;
- the section 154 support provided by the Eastern Cape MEC for local government and traditional Affairs in terms of the municipal manager and the chief financial officer have had life threats and cannot fulfil their functions;
- the collapse of the Makana Local Municipality’s administration is because of political interference and protection by the region against the efforts by the provincial government;
- the DA, therefore, calls for, in terms of section 139 (1)(b) of the Constitution, that Makana Local Municipality be placed under administration immediately;
- that the above administrative intervention must be properly supervised by the MEC for Local Government and Traditional Affairs and the NCOP Select Committee for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs;
- the political interference of the mayor cannot be tolerated any longer and he must be dismissed by his party; and
- an independent forensic investigation into the corruption and unlawful expenditure in the municipality must be conducted.
Mr S J MOHAI
Ms E C VAN LINGEN
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Mr S J MOHAI: I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:
That the Council-
- commends and congratulates the Financial and Fiscal Commission for successfully hosting the 20th anniversary conference which was held here at the Cape Town International Convention Centre;
- notes that the theme of the conference was ``A Review of South Africa’s Intergovernmnental Fiscal Relations System: An African Perspective on Fiscal Decentralisation;
- further notes that the conference brought together all participants: public representatives and officials from institutions in all spheres of government in South Africa and abroad; and
- further notes that some of the issues discussed at the conference included the rethinking on fiscal implications of legislation and policy norms and standards; an African perspective for intergovernmental fiscal relation policies to meet infrastructure needs for economic development, and noted the need for the review of the current South African intergovernmental fiscal relations within the context of evolving South African intergovernmental fiscal relations within the context of long-term planning which is the hallmark of development nations.
Thank you.
Mr G MICHALAKIS
Mr S J MOHAI
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Mr G MICHALAKIS: I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the Council-
- notes that raw sewerage from the waste management plant in Brandfort in the Free State is contaminating fresh water streams in the area;
- further notes that ANC-run municipality’s failure to rectify the issues threatens the lives of both citizens and animals in the area; and
- calls on the Free State provincial government to take the water crisis in the province seriously and to intervene to prevent further contamination of our fresh water resources.
Ms T J MOKWELE
Mr G MICHALAKIS
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ACTIONS OF AURORA EMPOWERMENT SYSTEMS’ DIRECTORS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T J MOKWELE: I hereby move without notice, on behalf of the EFF, that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:
That the Council-
- notes with concern the irresponsible manner in which the directors of Aurora Empowerment Systems have remained silent after leaving employees of their now-defunct mine destitute;
- further notes that not only has the saga further put the South African mining sector in jeopardy, but it has also worsened the prevailing problem of unemployment and poverty;
- further notes with dismay that the President’s nephew and director of Aurora has absolved himself of any responsibility over the debacle;
- further notes that a pattern is emerging of certain individuals in leadership positions who simply refuse to take responsibility for their corrupt behaviour, who desecrate the country’s resources and refuse to pay back the money with impunity; and
- further notes that we wish to convey to them that they will be held accountable by ordinary South Africans if their political counterparts refuse to do so.
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: The member read a motion without notice. I am not sure now what the process would be for that motion because, if it is accepted as a motion without notice, then a decision must be called for in terms of the view of the Council. Thank you, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, we are still dealing with notices of motion. We have not yet come to motions without notice.
Ms L C DLAMINI
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi)
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Ms L C DLAMINI: I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:
That the Council-
- debates the increasing problem of child trafficking in Africa and the world;
- notes that media reports estimate that 30 000 children fall victim to child trafficking in South Africa and are forced into the sex trade every year;
- further notes that South Africa is a signatory to the protocol to prevent, suppress and punish trafficking in persons, especially women and children, which requires South Africa to address human trafficking as a crime and makes it punishable by law;
- further notes that, in July last year, President Jacob Zuma signed the Prevention and Combating of Trafficking in Persons Bill into law; and
- calls on the people of South Africa, the police and nongovernmental organisations to wage a concerted fight against child trafficking and expose those who exploit and violate the rights and dignity of our children for their own self enrichment.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP
NOTICES OF MOTION
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EFF DISRUPTION OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council–
(1) notes with utmost concern and utter dismay the conduct of the EFF, when they disrupted the proceedings of the National Assembly and showed utter contempt for the institution of Parliament, the person and Office of the President;
(2) takes this opportunity to condemn in the strongest possible terms such utterly despicable conduct of the EFF as nothing but clear contempt of Parliament as an important forum of our democracy for the representation of the will and aspirations of the people of South Africa, and the contestation of ideas that are advanced through superior arguments and democratic processes and practices; and
(3) calls on the people of South Africa to shun with utter contempt, the repulsive, reprehensible behaviour of the EFF as nothing but pure anarchism and blatant disrespect of Parliament and its stature as a vanguard of our democracy.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.
Ms T MOTARA
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL
SIXTEENTH ANNIVERSARY OF INCARCERATION OF CUBAN FIVE
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T MOTARA: Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council–
(1) notes that this year marks the 16th anniversary of the unjust incarceration of the Cuban Five men, on 12 September 1998, for committing espionage and conspiracy against the government of the United States of America and its people;
(2) further notes and welcomes the release of René González on October 7 in 2011 after the completion of his sentence, and freedom, finally guaranteed in 2013;
(3) acknowledges that the actions of the Cuban Five were not directed at the government of the United States of America and its people, but they were waging a concerted infiltration of terrorist organisations in Miami that were planning terrorist attacks on Cuba and her people; and
(4) takes this opportunity to join in solidarity the remaining four of the Cuban Five and people of Cuba in calling for the immediate release from their unjust incarceration.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Ms L L ZWANE
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Ms T MOTARA
FIRING OF GENERATIONS CAST
(Draft Resolution)
Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council-
(1) notes with utmost concern the decision of MMSV Productions to terminate the contracts of the entire cast of one of the most popular and longest running soap operas, Generations, following a second strike over contracts, salaries and royalties;
(2) further notes that the firing of the cast comes in the wake of reports of poor payment and several of the cast of Generations reportedly not getting any form of benefits, despite being with the production for years;
(3) takes this opportunity to condemn, in the harshest possible terms, the attitudes of MMSV Productions and the SABC for showing utter disregard for the issues that were raised by the cast more than 10 months ago; and
(4) calls on the Ministers of Labour and Communications and Arts and Culture to ensure that this matter is resolved with the utmost urgency.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr E J VON BRANDIS
Ms L L ZWANE
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CLEAN OR UNQUALIFIED AUDITS IN WESTERN CAPE MUNICIPALITIES
(Draft Resolution)
Mr E J VON BRANDIS: Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I move without notice:
That the Council–
(1) congratulates the 29 out of 30 Western Cape municipalities for their clean or unqualified audits;
(2) notes that only one municipality in the Western Cape, namely Kannaland, received an adverse finding; and
- acknowledges that this reflects the hard work that the Western Cape government has put in to ensure that public funds are well managed.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.
Mr C J DE BEER
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Mr E J VON BRANDIS
PIONEERING DENTAL SURGERY IN KIMBERLEY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C J DE BEER: I move without notice:
That the Council–
(1) acknowledges a South African first, a groundbreaking dental procedure that was performed at the Kimberley Hospital;
(2) further notes that two patients received titanium mandible implants created by 3D printing technology;
(3) also notes that the procedure paves the way to improving the lives of more than 500 Northern Cape patients diagnosed with head and neck cancer each year;
(4) further notes that the implants are to fix the facial contour and restore normal function and appearance in patients;
(5) notes that this operation is a first for South Africa and the second performed globally; and
(6) congratulates the medical team headed by Dr Cules van den Heever, and the Northern Cape, which offers specialised treatment in synthetic titanium jaw implants to lead the way in improving the lives of many more patients diagnosed with head and neck cancer.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr B G NTHEBE
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Mr C J DE BEER
RESIGNATION OF DA YOUTH LEADER MBALI NTULI
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B G NTHEBE: Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council–
(1) notes media reports that the DA’s Mbali Ntuli, who was the DA Youth leader, has resigned after her relationship with the leader of the party, who is the Premier of the Western Cape, the honourable Helen Zille, became increasingly strained after several publicised exchanges where the honourable Zille called Ntuli unprofessional and said she was behaving like a prima donna after she expressed her reservations about the DA’s planned march to Luthuli House;
(2) further notes that Ntuli’s resignation marks the party’s third high-profile resignation this year, following the departure of the party’s former parliamentary leader, Lindiwe Mazibuko, in May, and the chief executive, Jonathan Moakes, amid concerns from what is now labelled as the black caucus in the DA, that the party has deteriorated into an intolerant, paranoid, fearful, vengeful and malicious one-woman organisation that is subservient to Helen Zille, who has reportedly increasingly become a dictator, and her clique; and
(3) takes this opportunity to appeal to the other black members of the DA to see the DA for what it is.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.
Ms G M MANOPOLE
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Mr B G NTHEBE
EFF’S COMMENTS ON BLACK SAPS MEMBERS’ KNOWLEDGE
(Draft Resolution)
Ms G M MANOPOLE: Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council–
(1) notes with utmost concern the disparaging and utterly misguided remarks made by the leader of the EFF, the hon Julius Malema, that black police officers do not know the law and their work; and
(2) takes this opportunity to condemn in the harshest possible terms the disparaging comments of the EFF leader as an insult to the entire Police Service, and an attempt to perpetuate derogatory stereotypes that are not only ignorant but also insulting to our people.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.
Mr C F B SMIT
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Ms G M MANOPOLE
ANIMAL NEGLECT AT LAND REFORM PROJECT ON MODIMOLLE FARM
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C F B SMIT: Chair, I move a motion without notice on behalf of the DA:
That the Council–
(1) notes that on Thursday, 20 August 2014, the Percy Fyfe SPCA had to intervene on the farm of Mr Andrew Dipela, the previous Municipal Manager of Bela-Bela Local Municipality, over animal neglect;
(2) further notes that the farm, Rietfontein, in Modimolle, Limpopo, is a land reform project that is failing;
(3) also notes that 31 of the original 50 pigs were still alive on the SPCA’s arrival, but another three pigs had to be put down due to their poor condition;
(4) recognises that this neglect has taken place since March this year, when the first complaints were received, and that the SPCA has visited multiple times since then, with no improvement; and
(5) acknowledges that the Select Committee on Land and Mineral Resources needs to do an oversight visit to the farm and report back on the reasons for this type of neglect.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is there an objection to the motion? [Interjections.] In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.
SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION – THE MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION
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MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
DEBATE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT: MOVING WITH UTMOST SPEED TO PROVIDE WATER AND SANITATION TO OUR PEOPLE AND ELIMINATE THE BUCKET SYSTEM
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon chairperson of the Select Committee, hon members of the NCOP and fellow South Africans, we are here today to deliberate on this very critical matter of water and sanitation, but with particular emphasis on the Bucket Eradication Programme. This is an issue that strikes at the very heart of humanity, much more so at the right of all of us to access a safe water supply and dignified sanitation.
As the servants of our people, we are truly enjoined by the Bill of Rights that dictates that and I quote: “Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected.”
It continues to further say, and I quote:
Everyone has the right –
- to an environment that is not harmful to their health or wellbeing; and
- to have the environment protected, for the benefit of present and future generations ...
In this regard, we are all expected to work together and ensure that what is contained in the Bill of Rights is continuously executed through the work that we do on a day-to-day basis. We therefore recognise the mandate that is before us and the dictates of the directive by His Excellency, President Jacob Zuma, to establish a new Department of Water and Sanitation.
With the lessons learnt from the diagnostic report, it is evident that we will only manage the water and sanitation if this is managed in an integrated way, working together with our entities and in co-operation with the provinces and municipalities. Through this integrated approach we will effectively be able to make an impression on this issue, particularly to reduce and, as a first prize, do away with unhealthy and undignified sanitation interventions.
The legislative review which will culminate in a single act dealing with both water and sanitation will ensure a seamless approach to service delivery. We must however never overlook that, in the final instance, the responsibility for delivery rests with local government.
Besides the fact that, as we reported during the Budget Review in this House a short while ago, the proclamation releasing the sanitation function to the department has now been signed by the President, the whole process will be finalised by 26 September 2014, thus allowing the department access to the budget for sanitation. Our work cannot wait till then; we are continuing working together with various departments and the Department of Human Settlements, in particular, to make the necessary interventions where leadership is required.
We are therefore well on our way to the establishment and operationalisation of the new department, the Department of Water and Sanitation.
With regard to water, as we strive to consolidate our successes, we have committed ourselves and are moving forward with the utilisation of our existing budget to deal with the 10% of existing dysfunctional and 26% of infrastructure where the provision of water is not reliable.
On the sanitation front, whilst we have made good progress in global terms, we still remain with a backlog of 2,4 million households without dignified sanitation. Of this backlog, 282 000 households, both in informal and formal settlements, still rely on the bucket sanitation system, mainly in the provinces of Gauteng, Free State, Western Cape, North West, Eastern Cape and Northern Cape.
Our current focus, however, is on the 88 127, of which we have already eliminated 14 000 from the pronunciation that was made by the President in the state of the nation address. Since the programme started in September 2013, at which time there was no budget until December 2013, we managed to eradicate 14 386 buckets countrywide.
In the Free State, we have eradicated 9 223 buckets with over 4 516 fully waterborne in Wesselsbron, where we have 2 300, in Hobhouse with 1 224, in Tweespruit with 1 353, in Winburg with 410, in Thaba Nchu and Botshabelo with 198.
IsiXhosa:
Qhwabani [Clap.] [Laughter.]
English:
In the Northern Cape 1 328 buckets were replaced with waterborne sanitation at Sol Plaatjie, and 671 in the Promised Land and Freedom Park. [Applause.] In Gasegonyane it was 500, 100 in Tsantsabane, 37 in Dikgatlong, and 20 in Renosterburg.
In the Eastern Cape, 681 buckets were eradicated and replaced with waterborne systems. In Joe Gqabi it was 543, 121 in Makana, and, dare I say, that we also share the same frustrations and anxieties on the state of the Makana Municipality. However, we do believe that the solution is not the dismissal of the mayor; it is about building capacity and making sure that there are proper systems there.
At a political level, it is the responsibility of political parties to sort that out. Let’s sort the systems and not deal with the politics. [Applause.] In Baviaans the number is 13, in Blue Crane Route, it’s four.
In the Limpopo province we have delivered 3 143 toilets that include ventilated improved pit, VIP, toilets with alternative sanitation in these areas, in Ephraim Mogale, 1 500, in Giyani, 501, in Modimolle, 400, in Blouberg, 400, in Tzaneen, 210, in Letaba, 132.
In Mpumalanga we have eradicated all 11 buckets at Dipaliseng. In the North West we have eradicated 81 buckets at Matlosana. May I hasten to say that what you see in Mpumalanga and in the North West is a reflection of a bigger problem in the provinces, hence the decision - together with the provincial government of the North West - that we are not just going in to support, but we are going to take over the responsibilities, bring capacity wall-to-wall in the entire North West so that we can help the municipalities. As we are building capacity, we accelerate delivery to our people. [Applause.]
We recognise the fact that the issues leading to the lag in the delivery of these basic yet essential services have, to a large extent, been a result of poor leadership, a lack of effective operations and maintenance, inadequate budget allocations, inappropriate procurement, the lack of norms and standards, and a tendency to focus on new infrastructure whilst not looking after our existing and ageing infrastructure.
My own analogy is that although Madiba was as old as he was before he passed on, we all knew that he was a very handsome and a charming man because he looked after himself. So, aging infrastructure should not be neglected. You have to look after it and it will really provide the necessary service. We can’t only look at the new; we must also look at the old so that it can carry us forward as we make the necessary interventions. [Interjections.] I don’t know about the charming part.
With regard to our sanitation systems, the 2013 Green Drop Report indicates that apart from the Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape, the waste water systems in the other provinces are very poorly managed. They lack routine operation and maintenance and consequently discharge poor quality effluent back into our rivers and streams. This cannot be allowed to continue unabated until we reach a point where we have more Bloemhof-type of incidents with the loss of life due to pollution incidents. This requires leadership, consequence management and a better way of monitoring procurement from the service providers, and not collusion between those who appoint and those who implement.
I, together with the department, strongly support the actions and the directives of the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs which requires that all municipalities must set aside at least 10% of their budgets for operation and maintenance activities.
Furthermore, with regard to funding, we will continue to engage with National Treasury to gain maximum advantage out of the initiative by the Minister of Finance to review the current grant regime. It is recognised that we need to, firstly, ``crowd in’’ and consolidate the current proliferation of grants targeted at local government and have a single water and sanitation grant.
Secondly, we need to review the grant conditions to ensure that the conditions are able to support, improve and provide speedy service delivery without compromising accountability. This is absolutely necessary because, at the moment, there are six significant grant programmes that support water and sanitation delivery. However, in some instances, those grants are used to pay salaries just as we saw in Mopani, in Ngaka Modiri Molema and in many of our municipalities. There have to be consequences. When the grants are released, they must be for service. We can’t be nice to anybody at the expense of the life of our own people. [Applause.]
Sanitation, in particular, has up to now been mainly funded on an ad hoc basis, while water has enjoyed the benefits of a more mature ring-fenced funding regime. How do we deal with the transition, given that South Africa is a water-scarce country and we have to ensure that we do not pollute these limited resources?
The solution, therefore, is not to throw money at the challenge; money has proven to not be the solution. We have to always ensure that where and when money is spent, it is in cognisance of the prevalent and unique needs. And, therefore, the deployment of funds will now, henceforth, always be for the procurement of well-researched and tested solutions customised to meet these needs, which differ in form and degree from area to area across South Africa. Therefore, there cannot be a one-size-fits-all scenario.
In ensuring relevance in spending, we remain mindful of the dire consequences that unspent funding has on service delivery. Hence we seek to unlock funding where it is always required urgently to provide the best, most cost-effective and dignified sanitation facilities to our communities.
In order to expedite our work, we have also instructed our entity, the Water Research Commission, to urgently, by the end of this week, advertise for and manage the submissions as well as evaluate the available options on the market with regard to sanitation delivery.
This request for information must be for implementation-ready solutions, with such service providers ready and willing to put demonstration units on the ground for us to gauge the viability and acceptability of such solutions, both from the technical aspect as well as from the point of view of the community. The community aspects must be directed towards community development, including education and awareness, resulting in the community being an active partner appreciating and securing such solutions that we are putting in place.
As far as it concerns customisation of solutions, the department is equally encouraging, and open to green technology innovation that is decent, environmentally friendly and creates employment for our local communities.
The availability of neater and much more dignified alternative toilet systems in the environment, compared to the very deficient VIP toilet, is an indication that the time has come for new innovative, available toilet systems that will ensure that the dignity of our people is restored and maintained. From the current scenario, it can therefore be seen that the complicated process of building sanitation and sewage systems has concomitant effects in that the very operations, maintenance and rehabilitation of sanitation and sewage systems, if not managed properly, can further saddle the service-delivery backlogs. It is therefore important that the operation and maintenance of sanitation infrastructure for both waterborne and VIP dry sanitation are adequately addressed.
Lack of co-ordination also results in great difficulty for collective delivery of this critical service. We believe that with co-ordination and if, for example, the entire Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, formula allocation were considered - with over R7 billion per annum - the 2,4 million sanitation backlog would theoretically be wiped out within an Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, period. The disadvantage is that it then gets fragmented because every little municipality has to get its portion and, in the end, we are not able to see maximum impact. We have to move away from a one-size-fits–all system. We have to acknowledge the nonviability of municipalities but we also have to deal with the service delivery side as compared to silos of different municipalities.
For this to happen, national Cabinet would have to take a decision which will ensure that National Treasury ring-fences these allocations as conditional grants. This is what we are pursuing, together with Minister Pravin Gordhan and Minister Lindiwe Sisulu, ensuring that we minimise the misuse of these grants but we direct them to where there is a need and also we bring in capacity and the role that provinces have to play.
We have agreed with all our partners in the water and sanitation sector, assisted by the Ministry visits to the provincial legislatures to strengthen co-operation, that our intention is to adequately and with dignity ensure that, truly, the pride of the people of South Africa is restored.
The collaboration amongst the three departments commenced around July 2013, almost eight months before the end of the 2013-14 financial year. It came about with the appointment of former Minister September as the Human Settlements’ Minister. Having worked in water, she forged close ties with the water sector.
The initial focus was to identify and deal with water and sanitation hotspots. After consultations with the ANC and the President, the focus changed into eradicating buckets in formalised areas. Then the marching orders were that buckets in formalised areas should be eradicated by March 2014. These decisions were taken during the August 2013 meetings. At the time, there was no budget for the bucket eradication programme and directors-general were requested to reprioritise and also engage National Treasury.
We also want to draw your attention to the fact that water boards, together with the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, Misa, the Housing Development Agency, HDA, the National Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency, Nurcha, and the National Home Builders’ Registration Council, NHBRC,++++ were also engaged. With the exception of the NHBRC, the other agencies were appointed as implementing agents.
Their initial business plans were submitted in September 2013 with unit prices ranging between R17 000 and R30 000. The target was to eradicate 88 127 buckets at an average price of R30 000. It was estimated that the programme would cost R2,6 billion. Only R450 million was secured from the Department of Human Settlements Development Grant savings from Limpopo. The Department of Water and Sanitation secured R200 million that was given to Mangaung and Bloem Water.
Accordingly, National Treasury approved in the 2014-15 financial year an amount of R899 million, and an amount of R975 million for the 2015-16 financial year only around December 2013. However, the R899 million budget for the 2014-15 financial year can only deliver 30 000 units. The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and municipalities need to be mobilised so that almost 50% of the R15 billion MIG budget in the 2014-15 financial year is redirected towards bucket eradication. It is important to note that R1 billion can eradicate 33 000 cases of bucket sanitation per annum. To achieve this, a Cabinet Memorandum may be required to persuade Cabinet to reorientate MIG as the three departments have agreed.
I am of the firm belief that some water services authorities are acting autonomously and some are acting maliciously. Therefore, as the Minister of the Department of Water and Sanitation, I am to review the assignment of water services functions or retain authority to take over the programme implementation of sanitation for the people of South Africa. [Applause.]
Consultation has been ongoing with organised local government but, also, what has come out of the National Development Plan actually speaks about centralised planning, ensuring that there is seamless delivery of these basic services and, therefore, it can’t be business as usual; we have to accelerate the interventions in these areas.
In the current year, the department has R113 million for the Rural Household Infrastructure Grant, split into different categories such as the direct grant and indirect grant. In the outer years, the Rural Household Infrastructure Grant allocation will roll-out as R106 million for the 2014-15 financial year, R118 million for the 2015-16 financial year and R124 million for the 2016-17 financial year.
The idea that the bucket eradication programme could deliver all 88 127 units by March 2014 was not based on empirical reality given the fact the following. Firstly, the amount available was only R650 million when over R2,6 billion was required at a unit price of R30 000.
Secondly, although we had names of areas and villages under severe stress, further assessment work was required and water boards that had assessment programmes scheduled beyond January 2014 were requested to fast-track their processes as this was an emergency programme.
Thirdly, connecting new households to waterborne sewers required increased capacities of wastewater treatments plants, reticulation pipes, bulk infrastructure upgrades and increased water supply.
Lastly, infrastructure design, excavation, beneficiary administration, community consultations, and appointment of professional expertise all required additional lead time.
However, it then follows that for these challenges to be overcome and to be able to meet unlimited needs with very limited resources, I, as the Minister for Water and Sanitation, have commissioned that the following stringent intervention measures for a realistic Bucket Eradication Programme be implemented: Firstly, waterborne sanitation is being installed mostly in proclaimed townships. I dare say, you can’t provide waterborne services in informal settlements that are not proclaimed townships, and therefore a one-size-fits-all system cannot be, now and in the future, a solution in all our informal settlements.
Secondly, alternative sanitation systems are used as interim solutions in townships that still require bulk infrastructure. Where there are plans to lay bulk infrastructure, we must provide alternative sanitation systems that are dignified and not the ones that have been condemned by the SA Human Rights Commission, as seen in the report on the state of sanitation in the Western Cape.
Thirdly, the Department of Water and Sanitation is to work with the Water Research Council and private sector partners that provide alternative sanitation solutions to communities without water supply or infrastructure. In this regard, there is a need for beneficiary education as well as end user education to be availed to enhance the reliability and efficiency of these alternative systems. In the interim, honey-suckers - it is a name that sounds nice but what it does is actually something else - are to be used to provide operation and maintenance in both informal settlements and rural areas, to prevent households regressing back into the use of bucket sanitation.
As part of the intervention, the Bucket Eradication Programme for the 2014-15 financial year allocation of R899 million needs to be allocated to implementing agencies immediately, who will then need to increase their contractor capacities in order to spread to more communities and project sites immediately and ensure that we have qualified people who must deliver so that we avoid another Bloemhof in South Africa.
With that, professional resource teams need to be deployed immediately to assist in each province with technical capacity and assessment, engineering and project management services, beneficiary administration, mobilisation, asset register compilation, and financial reconciliation and reporting.
Already, this kind of intervention is beginning to yield results in the Free State province and, also the intervention that we will be bringing in in the North West, with the Free State already taking a lead in making these interventions a reality, given the experiences that we have had. What is of importance is that, together with all local authorities and the provincial government in the Free State, we have agreed that we need this high-level intervention that will then come in wall to wall.
Initially, Mangaung was excluded but with the last visit by the Deputy President of the Republic, Comrade Cyril Ramaphosa, we have also made interventions in Botshabelo and in Thaba Nchu because we do believe that there is no area that cannot actually be assisted if we realise that there are serious challenges. I want to commend one of those who have been quite helpful in that - the MEC for the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs in the Free State. She walks the talk and she acts and she loses friends but she gains the support of the community. [Applause.]
In summary, what are our game changers? Firstly, the game changers will have to be about revisiting the water ownership patterns and water use rights in our country. Secondly, it is about educating and creating awareness amongst our communities on conservation, preservation and security of our scarce resource as well as innovation.
Furthermore, the game changers will have to harmonise the roles and responsibilities of institutions and all spheres of government in the best interest of the end user, both individually and collectively. We can achieve this only if we put communities first in what we do and demonstrate that it is business unusual.
We cannot continue with turf battles; we can’t continue with buddy-buddy relationships; we can’t promote black economic empowerment at the expense of quality service delivery. It is actually an indictment. [Applause.] We cannot also have people who are incapable of managing local government operations and maintenance. We need skilled capacity; we need men and women who also have the heart to direct the resources where they matter most, as compared to them paying salaries, issuing tenders on things that are not required, and then we continue to see a situation like Bloemhof.
Ordinarily, water is life. Sanitation is dignity but it has been an indictment on us that three infants had to die because of contaminated water due to undignified sanitation programmes. It cannot be business as usual. The programme will be differentiated and we will follow up the rationalisation of the current grant programmes.
In conclusion, on behalf of the President, I must - and I want to take advantage of being at this podium - apologise to the people of South Africa, in that we were overambitious in targeting the completion of the bucket eradication backlog by December 2014. Those who were supposed to provide wisdom through planning and proper budgeting could not actually give us the factual evidence that I have raised above.
I do believe that there has to be a consequence for those who want to allow us to pronounce on things that are not feasible and are not viable. The people of South Africa know us, the ones who are public representatives, and those who have to serve us with information can’t give us information that is not credible. Siyaxolisa, re kopa tshwarelo [Pardon us.] Really, it was not our intention. Watch this space; it will not be business as usual. Sizoshesha [We will hurry up], we will make a difference and it will not be business as usual. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms L C DLAMINI
THE MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I would like to remind those members who are coming to the podium for the first time that we do have a timer that can assist. But I will not remind those who know, like hon Dlamini. There is no need for me to remind her.
Ms L C DLAMINI: Deputy Chair, hon Minister and the Deputy Ministers, House Chairpersons, hon members, MECs in our midst if present, special delegates, Salga and our guests, good afternoon ...
Siswati:
... sanibonani. Ngitawucala ngekukhuta, Sihlalo. Siyakukhuta kakhulu loku lokwentekile ngale kuSigungu Savelonkhe.
English:
I just want to say to hon members that you lead by example. You walk the talk. Real leaders walk the talk. You can’t be a lawmaker and be a lawbreaker.
Siswati:
Akungenteki.
English:
... especially in this House. We are pleading with you. Chair, let’s make sure that it doesn’t happen...
Siswati:
... siyakhuta kakhulu. Angisho ke Sihlalo ...
English:
... I would not want to be popular by repeating what the Minister has said, as you know that ...
Siswati:
... tsine asibhalelwa tinkhulumo lesitatetfula, siyatibhalela.
English:
The Minister has covered most of the technical and administrative issues. I will take another direction.
Hon Chairperson, allow me to start this important debate under the theme ``moving with utmost speed to provide water and sanitation to our people and eliminate the bucket system’’ by saluting our women in the country and in the world, since they are the most affected in society, when you talk about water issues. Women and water are global struggles; matters of life and death. That is why it is seen as if we are not doing enough. I know that we have done our utmost as government, but the issue of water is an issue of life and death. You cannot spend one day without water.
The grim reality of the global water crisis is that it has a disproportionate impact on women, primarily on the women who manage water in the households. It is women who tend to crops. It is women who have the main responsibility for raising children. Lack of access to water substantially increases the burden of the responsibility on women.
This refers to household chores such as cooking, cleaning, washing, childcare, child-bearing, food production, sanitation needs and education. Sanitation for women is an issue of dignity, as the Minister was saying. They don’t have to wait for the sunset to go and help themselves, or live with a bucket that has not been attended to in their houses. We want to say ...
Siswati:
... siyabonga kakhulu kugovernment (kuhulumende) wetfu lobonile kutsi ...
English:
... we cannot live with that as women of this country ...
Siswati:
... sifuna kusho kutsi siyabonga kakhulu, bomake bakulelive labente siciniseko sokutsi ...
English:
... they take care of their responsibility, under difficult circumstances, without fail. I was so disappointed during the debate on women when one of our hon members from NCOP
representing the DA, hon Masondo, saluted women other than the women who really suffered the struggle of this country. It tells you how colonised some of us are. You don’t even understand who liberated you ...
Siswati:
... ngubani lokukhululile. Uyasuka lapho uyobonga labanye bomake longabati nokutsi babuya kuphi ...
English:
... because you were told to do so. You are afraid to tell the truth ...
Siswati:
... ngoba ucabanga kutsi batokucosha emsebentini. Labanye babo bangene ngeluhlolo ...
English:
... if you say something else, you will be fired. I just want to say to South Africans: See it for yourselves
Siswati:
... kutsi nivotele bobani kutsi bangene kumaposition (etikhundleni). Umuntfu utikhohliwe nekutsi ungubani.Ukhohlwe labomake labakukhululile bakwenta waba lapha namuhla.Labantfu lobabongako namuhla ...
English:
... were not there to liberate you. I was so disappointed, I must say.
As said earlier, the issue of water and sanitation is a matter of life and death. Other things you can duck and dive on, but on these two, you cannot. Therefore, it cannot be delayed.
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Dlamini, there is a point of order. You are recognised.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Thank you, Chair. On a point of order: I just wanted to make sure about the name. The speaker mentioned an hon Masondo of the DA. I don’t know that person. Thank you, Chairperson.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: So you want to get clarity on the name of the member referred to as Masondo? Thank you, sir.
Siswati:
Umtfolile make?
Ms L C DLAMINI: It’s the member next to you. If I was wrong you can correct me, but it’s the member next to you.
As I said earlier, the issue of water and sanitation is a matter of life and death. Other things you can duck and dive, but these two you cannot. Therefore, it cannot be delayed for whatever reasons. It is an impossible choice to make. It must be done; it must be provided.
Thanks go to this ANC-led democratic government for providing water to all citizens of this country regardless of their colour and gender, as was the case during the apartheid regime ...
Siswati:
... bewungeke uwatfole emanti emakhaya.
English:
As I said before - we were a forgotten nation.
Siswati:
Bebangati nokutsi siyaphila.
English:
You could even provide water for your cattle and sheep, but ...
Siswati:
... tsine benisikhohliwe. Siyabonga kuhulumende wetfu kutsi asinike emanti noma usemakhaya, ungumake noma ungubabe umnyama noma umhlophe ...
English:
we are provided with. Now our people, especially women, have improved health, reduced child and maternal mortality, increased dignity and reduced psychological stress, and reduced physical injury from constant carrying and lifting of heavy loads of water. Our women can now spend more time participating in economic activities, contributing to our economy as a country. Also there is the reduced risk of rape, sexual assault, and increased safety as girls and women do not have to go to remote areas to fetch water. This is thanks to the ANC-led government under President Jacob Zuma.
Water and sanitation services remain one of the core challenges of our time globally, particularly for South Africa’s growing political economy. Yet, while South Africa has met the Millennium Development Goal targets in these areas, its primary goal remains that of universal access to safe and sustainable water and sanitation services for all South Africans.
It is against this backdrop that a new Department of Water and Sanitation has been established to unify water and sanitation services. You cannot separate the two. Thanks go to the government for seeing that reason to combine the two. You cannot have sanitation without water. Thank you very much to the ANC-led government; it takes a visionary government to think about those things.
In his state of the nation address at the start of the Fifth Parliament, the hon President Jacob Zuma acknowledged that the water services delivery protests are not simply the result of the failures of government, but also of the success of government in delivering water services, in that those without access become impatient and envious of their neighbours as they continue to feel excluded or denied access to water services.
Siswati:
Akusho kutsi bantfu nabalwela tinsita kusho kutsi siyahluleka ...
English:
... but what it means is that ...
Siswati:
... laba labasengakawatfoli emanti babona ngatsi lesivinini sokuwatfumela sihamba kancane kakhulu.
English:
Hon Minister and the Deputy Minister, as the select committee, we commit ourselves to support you. We will be side by side with you, especially on two matters, on which we will be doing very close monitoring. [Applause.] The issue of bucket eradication and the issue of bulk water supply, which seem to be the major problems in terms of water provision, especially ...
Siswati:
... ngiyati kutsi batobanga umsindvo ...
English:
... but I have to say it; I can’t help it. When I went to the funeral of the former Chief Whip of this Council in Gugulethu, I saw the informal settlement there. Also, as you come to Cape Town, there is that informal settlement that you see. As much as we are saying that the Western Cape province must play its role, we also want to say that our people should also try to respect and not invade land illegally, because it really disturbs the provision of services to our people.
It is also worth noting that, in May 2014, it was announced that the department water and sanitation in Durban in KwaZulu-Natal won the Stockholm Industry Water Award for its transformative and inclusive approach, calling it one of the most progressive utilities in the world. That is Durban, in KwaZulu-Natal - of course not Western Cape, unfortunately.
The city has connected R1, 3 million additional people to piped water and provided 700 000 with access to toilets in 14 years. It also was South Africa’s first municipality to put the free basic water for the poor into practice. It’s not me saying this. This is an international forum that has recognised that. If wishes were horses, it could have been said about other provinces, but unfortunately it is KZN.
In conclusion, South Africa is a much better place to live in now than it was before 1994. There is no doubt about it. Although there has been tremendous improvement on the provision of water services since 1994, there is still room for improvement in this regard.
The government highlighted and acknowledged the water services successes and challenges. The government has also outlined solutions to the identified challenges. For instance, there is the establishment of the Inter-Ministerial Task Team to address water service delivery challenges. The inclusion of sanitation under the functions of the department is a clear indication that there is a need to fast - track delivery of sanitation services and water to our people. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M MNQASELA
|
Ms L C DLAMINI
IsiXhosa:
Mnu M MNQASELA(Ntshona Koloni): Sihlalo, uMphathiswa ohloniphekileyo, amaSekela Mphathiswa, amalungu abekekileyo, mandithathe eli thuba ndiyicacise into yokuba akukho mntu ufanele ukuba aphile esebenzisa inkqubo yamabhakethi xa ezithuma (bucket system).
English:
No one deserves to live in a situation where they use a bucket system and others help themselves in bushes. It does not matter which province it is. We need to deal with it and the Minister is spot on on this matter. Let us eradicate the bucket system. We are fully behind you, hon Minister, and you have the Western Cape’s support on that.
I stand here humbled to represent the most beautiful province of the Western Cape and I say here without fear of contradiction that the 2011 national census was the first unbiased report to acknowledge the excellent status of services provided by the Western Cape government to the people of this province.
According to the results of the census, 99,1% of the Western Cape residents have access to piped water; 99,1% have access to refuse removal, 93,4% have access to electricity, and 89,6% have access to full flush toilets.
For the past five years our municipalities, which deliver day-to-day basic services to residents, have doubled the number of clean audits that they have achieved. It means that you are doing well. The results of clean municipal audits mean that life is better in those communities. It means that finances are handled better and there are better controls. That is what it means. That in turn increases the ability of these municipalities to deliver services to those who are most in need of financial assistance. Allow me to pause, Chair, and say that, in the recent audit in the year under review - that is 2012-13 - 29 out of 30 municipalities in the Western Cape achieved unqualified audits and, of those, 11 achieved clean audits. That is the Western Cape. [Applause.]
As revealed late last year, each of the Western Cape government’s 14 departments achieved an unqualified audit. Furthermore, in the management performance assessment tool conducted on all provinces by the President, the Western Cape attained first place. [Applause.] It is not me and the DA saying that, but the President of the country. We appreciate that. This is what we want - an unbiased way of telling the truth as it is.
This province in every category, including governance, is the best. In terms of strategy, it is number one, and for monitoring and evaluation. They say it is number one on education. [Laughter.] On monitoring and evaluation, on human resources, it is number one; systems and finance, number one. It has an aggregate level of 10, ten point basis.
The province coming second on this list is Mpumalanga. Thank you. You have done well, coming after us with an average of 7,5%.
IsiXhosa:
Siyabancoma kuba abanye baphaya ezantsi. IMpuma Koloni noMntla Ntshona, iphondo eli asuka kulo uMhlalingaphambili, liphaya ekugqibeleni. Siza kunithandazela. [Kwahlekwa.]
English:
The Western Cape is by far the best.
I also want to say to the SA Human Rights Commission which released a purportedly authentic report on the sanitation and standards of living in informal settlements in the Western Cape - you know, if it were a political party, I would say they should go and fight elections - I do not know what it wanted to achieve because it must protect the human rights of everyone. On the day when it was saying the City of Cape Town is worse off, citing non-performance, that same day the hon Minister of Human Settlements, ...
IsiXhosa:
... umama uLindiwe Sisulu, uthi isiXeko saseKapa ...
English:
... is on spot in terms of the provision of chemical toilets where we cannot put full flush system. No, you come with the SA Human Rights Commission - which is what they call themselves - and play party politics. Even the hon Minister here is saying we must not play party politics. We are talking about the lives of people here.
IsiXhosa:
Andifuni mbuzo mna.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Hon Chair, I rise on points of order on two issues. First is the point of relevance in so far as the Rules are concerned. I think that the member’s speech is irrelevant to the subject matter for discussion in so far as the issues that he has raised are concerned. Secondly, the member is using the platform of Parliament to attack a Chapter 9 institution, the SA Human Rights Commission. As a Member of Parliament we have taken oaths or affirmations to respect the Constitution, in which the SA Human Rights Commission enjoys such respect. I think the member is misleading the House and he must withdraw that attack on the SA Human Rights Commission. [Interjections.]
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ntate Mnqasela, I am chairing these proceedings; respect that. [Interjections.]
Order! There are two points of orders. The first is the point of order on irrelevance. My view as the Presiding Officer on the irrelevance or relevance of the speech is that sometimes we need, as this House, to be a little bit lenient and to allow - especially the delegates from the provinces -them the latitude to raise the matters, firstly, affecting their provinces and any other issue which would then bring through the provision that says that the provinces must use this House as a platform at national level.
That means however, Ntate Mnqasela, that you keep to the topic. It does not matter where you draw your examples; you keep to the topic. So, I would want you to do that.
On the second point of order, you actually went to the extent of referring to them as ``they call themselves the SA Human Rights Commission. I think that we do need to give them the respect as a Chapter 9 institution. Therefore, I would want you to criticise as constructively as you can but not to actually drag them down.
Say what you have to say but be circumspect in your choice of words. That is a precautionary ruling in both instances. You may continue.
Mr M MNQASELA (Western Cape): Hon Chair, I would like to refer the member to the report that the SA Human Rights Commission released, which is highly political. I want to say what the Constitution says: that Chapter 9 institutions, in their existence, as we respectfully accept their nature and their mandate, is that they are there to support our democracy and not to undermine elected governments and their electorate mandates.[Interjections.]
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mnqasela, please, the fact that I said the ruling was precautionary does not mean that you must abuse the Chair. Please go on to the rest of your speech and leave the discussion on the rights and wrongs of the matter. If you have other issues on the SA Human Rights Commission, refer the commission’s report and your complaints to the relevant bodies. Use the processes that you have at your disposal, as a public representative. Please, continue with your speech.
Mr M MNQASELA (Western Cape): Thank you, Chairperson. I take note of the ruling that you have made.
We are going to take the necessary steps and remedial action. We are also going to invite the SA Human Rights Commission to engage with us, as the commission, on these issues that they have highlighted.
There are issues in terms of the nature of engagements in that we have seen some organisations being in cahoots with the ANC in the Western Cape.
The Social Justice Coalition, which misrepresents information in order to secure certain of their objectives in cahoots with the ANC, and the Ses’Khona People’s Rights’ Movement that is working in cahoots with the ANC that endorsed the ANC just two days before the elections, are undermining the programme that the hon Minister was raising here. I just want to raise that matter here: whilst we are trying to bring services to all communities, there are those who keep disrupting services in poor communities.
Even last week, we had a problem where some people go into communities on the pretext that they are just ordinary members of the communities, and burn trains. As we speak, in Khayelitsha there are no trains and the community is in dire crisis. [Interjections.] If you look at the system that we are providing when we talk about sanitation, informal settlements would be nothing ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, ...
Mr M MNQASELA (Western Cape): ... without the holistic nature of services, not just water and sanitation.
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member on the podium, there is a way we run this House. If we say to you there is a point of order, we expect you to keep quiet and allow the point of order to be proceeded with.
Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Deputy Chair, on a point of order, we are debating water and sanitation, and not trains. [Interjections.] If he talks trains, he must relate it to water and sanitation. That is what I did with women’s issues. [Interjections.]
Mr M MNQASELA (Western Cape): Thank you, Chair. That was not a point of order; you are disturbing me.
The province is also in negotiations with farmers in light of the fact that, whilst farmers have a responsibility to produce, they must also work closely with those who help in working the land to produce. In doing so, we need basic services on all farms. We are making progress as the Western Cape to achieve that: to provide free basic electricity - through you Chair; to provide water and sanitation. Those are the things that are at the top of our agenda as the government of the Western Cape.
I want to say, before I finish, that the Western Cape became number one not just because of numbers, but it is the best place to live in this country. [Interjections.] The country as a whole has witnessed the benefits of this province. Look where Parliament is, you live in this province. The institution is in Western Cape, and you have never had water cuts. However, there are municipalities where you will find that there are government departments that owe municipalities, and we want to encourage those government departments, entities and businesses to please pay the bills that talk to electricity; the list goes on.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyabulela, bekumnandi ukuba lapha.
Mr M KHAWULA
|
Mr M MNQASELA
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Minister, let me start by expressing appreciation for your approach to the way you have spoken, charting the way forward about how you want to see things done in your department. It is unusual to find an hon Minister apologising in public, at this very podium, about the way things have been done, bearing in mind that the culprits are likely to be the Minister’s own colleagues.
I also want to agree with the hon Minister that whilst black economic empowerment, BEE, might have been a good policy in order to achieve economic equity, BEE at the expense of service delivery is not. I say again: BEE at the expense of quality service delivery is not.
You also alluded to KwaZulu-Natal, Western Cape and Gauteng having adequate water purification systems. Hon Minister, KwaZulu-Natal is two worlds in one. In the urban areas of KwaZulu-Natal there is adequate provision of water and sanitation programmes, but in the rural areas we still have a huge backlog that still needs to be attended to.
According to the report by the Department of Water and Sanitation, seven provinces are still plagued with the bucket system around the country. The areas affected in the Eastern Cape are Cacadu District Municipality, Amathole District Municipality, Chris Hani District Municipality, Joe Gqabi District Municipality and Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality. In the Free State the affected areas are Gariep Local Municipality, Motheo District Municipality, Lejweleputswa District Municipality, Thabo Mofutsanyana District Municipality and Fezile Dabi District Municipality.
In Gauteng, Sedibeng District Municipality is experiencing this problem. In the Northern Cape there is Namakwa District Municipality, Pixley ka Seme District Municipality, Z F Mgcawu District Municipality and Frances Baard District Municipality. In the North West there is Ngaka Modiri Molema District Municipality and Dr Ruth Segomotsi Mompati District Municipality; and in the Western Cape the problem is in the Overberg District Municipality, Eden District Municipality and Central Karoo District Municipality.
For the 2014-15 financial year, R899,177 million has been allocated to Water Affairs for the bucket system eradication programme in for the whole country. Therefore, ``moving with utmost speed to eliminate the bucket system’’ is a mere phrase with no tangible achievable results, like you said, because of the problem of resources, especially financial resources.
Out of the nine provinces in South Africa, seven have this problem of the bucket system. The remaining two are KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo. KwaZulu-Natal is not plagued by this problem because of the solid foundations laid by the IFP administration in the governance of the province of KwaZulu. The IFP inherited townships with the bucket system from the apartheid government in the early seventies. These included the bucket system in Umlazi, KwaMashu and KwaMakhuta. But, even before 1994, the bucket system in these areas was totally eradicated by the IFP administration.
The new townships established by the IFP administration thereafter never had the bucket system. This included Ulundi, Gamalakhe, Ntuzuma, Esikhawini, Mandeni, Zakheni, Madadeni, Osizweni, KwaMsane in Mtubatuba. In addition to these being just residential areas, they were also developed to be both administration centres and industrial hubs.
The IFP cares about the welfare of the people. Thank you.
Mr M C MAINE
|
Mr M KHAWULA
Setswana:
Rre M C MAINE (North West): Motlotlegi Modulasetilo wa Ntlo eno, e re ke dumedise motlotlegi Tona Nomvula ...[Hon Chairperson of this House, let me greet the hon Minister Nomvula ...]
English:
... the Deputy Minister Comrade Andries Nel and hon members of this august House.
I think hon Mnqasela is very economical with the truth. The Western Cape cannot be number one in everything. I want to keep to the topic, but it is a known fact that, in terms of education, the province of Bokone Bophirima [North West] is number one. So, it is not the Western Cape. [Applause.]
It is also very interesting that in the Western Cape the Chapter 9 institutions can be attacked or criticised. There are other institutions that are Chapter 9 institutions which are friends with the Western Cape, and they cannot be criticised. Comrades would know that institution. I do not want to stoop to the level of the hon member, but I just thought that we should request the member to be honest with himself first.
In the year in which we celebrate the 20 years of freedom and democracy, we acknowledge the challenges that continue to beset our communities, particularly with regard to sanitation, as we mark our transition into the second phase of our democratic society. The assertion that sanitation and human dignity are interlinked is by no means an empty rhetorical stance, given the history of spatial planning which the mass majority of our people have inherited.
In our resolve to deal with this historic challenge, we are inspired by the vision for 2030 and beyond, as articulated by the National Development Plan, NDP. In this regard the NDP acknowledges that, since 1994, access to basic services has expanded. By 2010, when the NDP document was drafted, 97% of households had access to water and almost 75% had access to sanitation and electricity.
The NDP continues to note that, despite these achievements, access to safe water supplies, hygienic and dignified sanitation facilities remains a daily challenge to many South Africans, particularly in poor rural and peri-urban communities. It further continues to pinpoint the sources of these challenges and resolves that these underlying sources must be addressed, such as affordability of services for poor households; poorly managed municipalities, with limited human and financial resources; not enough bulk capacity to supply all the networks from which households get their services, and uncontrolled use by some households.
Practical action plans have been embarked upon, by the ANC-led government, to realise the vision espoused by the NDP, as contained in the ANC manifesto for the fifth administration. In this regard, the manifesto commits government to ensure that all South Africans have access to adequate human settlements and quality living conditions, through programmes that provide one million housing opportunities to qualifying households over the next five years and provide basic services and infrastructure in all informal settlements.
We have bold programmes in place in Bokone Bophirima to speedily deal with the challenges of bulk infrastructure on sanitation, within the broader goal of providing our people with a desired model for the human settlements programme, equipped with all attendant basic services necessary for the achievement of decent living conditions, in which our people are inspired to explore their full potential. It is against this vision that the fifth administration in Bokone Bophirima has seen the need to streamline the functions of human settlements and local government into one reconfigured department.
In our response to the NDP vision and the marching orders from the ANC manifesto, the department of co-operative governance and traditional affairs and the department of human settlements in Bokone Bophirima will utilise R194 million, part of which will be sourced from the provincial infrastructure grant, to deal with challenges that relate to water and sanitation in the current financial year.
Projects that will benefit through sanitation intervention include rural sanitation in Madibeng Local Municipality; Boskuil feasibility study, Maquassi town sewer reticulation and decommissioning of septic tanks in Maquassi Hills Local Municipality; Christiana and Bloemhof sewer reticulation, decommissioning of septic tanks and Bloemhof extension 10; rural sanitation in Lekwa-Teemane Local Municipality; sewer reticulation network in Reagile extension 8 in Kgetlengrivier Local Municipality; and rural sanitation in Kagisano-Molopo Local Municipality.
In 2006, as the province, we eradicated all the bucket systems that we found prior to 1994. The development of informal settlements has posed the province with the new challenge of bucket toilets which were prevalent at Naledi and Mamusa Local Municipalities and the province has since made it its task to eradicate them from 2006 onwards. The only challenge we are currently facing with regard to the bucket system is in informal settlements. In this regard, 14 000 ventilated improved pit, VIP, toilets have already been built in these communities. We further aim to totally eradicate the remaining bucket toilets in Mamusa and Naledi Local Municipalities, as well as identified informal settlements, through the rolling out of our human settlement programme.
We align ourselves with the view of the NDP that most of these challenges that manifest themselves as bulk infrastructure challenges are not necessarily inspired by an absence of budget but, to a large extent, emanate from capacity challenges in some of our municipalities. As part of addressing this ill that has the potential to undermine our intervention efforts as we seek to speedily provide sanitation to our people and eliminate the bucket system, we are going to intervene in municipalities with regard to enhancing capacity to manage these programmes.
Part of this support to municipalities, in terms of capacitating them to manage their bulk infrastructure provision, will be the skills audit carried out across all our municipalities in our province. We will primarily target critical technical skills posts, such as those of municipal managers; chief financial officers, CFOs; and section 57 managers, ensuring that the right people are employed in the right positions. We are moreover driven to action by the philosophical construct of ‘Saam werk Saam trek’, which is our embraced outlook on governance in our province.
‘Saam werk Saam trek’ philosophy, which calls for the rebranding, repositioning and renewal of Bokone Bophirima, as elaborated upon by the hon Premier during his state of the province address, is a thoroughgoing philosophical construct that can only succeed through popular citizen engagement. It calls on the people of Bokone Bophirima not to act in any manner or do anything that harms the good name of our province. It seeks to unleash our collective potential, to achieve the greatness which our province deserves, and embrace opportunities presented by the new spirit of unity, reconciliation and healing.
Our approach to sanitation challenges and the elimination of the bucket system finds expression within our broader approach to the creation of new towns and new cities, underpinned by excellence in local governance. In our endeavour to achieve this goal within the spirit of ‘Saam werk Saam trek’, we are going to be resolute in ensuring that those challenged with the task of building the necessary infrastructure for sanitation do comply with the letter and spirit of their contractual obligations.
Contractorswho are found to be doing substandard work on these projects are going to be blacklisted and, where possible, legally pursued. Where projects are not completed or embarked upon, in contravention to initial agreements, taxpayers’ money will be recovered. We cannot continue to handle perpetrators with kid gloves when our people are in dire need for decent and dignified sanitation services.
Our resolve is that there is no reason why everyone should not play their designated roles correctly in this regard. As we seek a new way of doing things in Bokone Bophirima, Tata Mandela continues to inspire us with the 1975 letter he wrote to Mama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela from Robben Island, which partly reads:
Difficulties break some men, but make others. No axe is sharp enough to cut the soul of a sinner who keeps on trying, one armed with the hope that he will rise even in the end.
I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L B GAEHLER
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Mr M C MAINE (North West)
Mr L B GAEHLER: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, the UDM supports attempts by government to increase the speed of the restoration of our people’s dignity by, amongst others, providing quality clean water to the people, and quality sanitation and eradication of the remaining bucket toilets in our communities. Surely we can’t afford to always shift the target on this matter as it borders on the rights of our people.
The 2012 Fourth Quarter Statistics South Africa report revised in October 2013, released in May 2014, reveals the following important information: Out of 90,8% of South African households with access to piped water in 2012, only 79% of the Eastern Cape households enjoyed such access. Although we agree that this is an improvement compared with 56,3% in 2002, this gap affects the most vulnerable impoverished rural citizens and further exposes them to other opportunistic diseases as the health system is also in a state of collapse. The delayed intervention in this regard has multiple social and economic consequences.
Nationally, 60,1% of households rated the quality of water-related services they received as good. However, this satisfaction rate is lower than the 76,4% recorded in 2005. Residents of Free State, Mpumalanga and Eastern Cape are reported to have been least satisfied with the quality of water. Once again, the poor quality of water has adverse consequences for the social and economic well-being of the people and, in particular, the rural citizens of the mentioned provinces.
The percentage of households with no toilets or bucket toilets decreased from 12, 3% in 2002 to 5, 3% in 2012. In the Eastern Cape 13, 4%, in Mpumalanga 6, 4% and in Limpopo 6, 3% of households were reported to be most likely to lack access to toilet facilities or to still use bucket toilets.
The then Minister of Human Settlements, in her response to the Human Rights Commission report on water and sanitation in March 2014, said:
As government, we have tirelessly worked in our quest to restore our people’s dignity, through, among other things, the bucket eradication programme, BEP ... Phase one of BEP will see the eradication of buckets in formalised townships of the Free State, Eastern Cape and Northern Cape. These provinces have the highest volume of bucket toilets. Phase two will ensure the eradication of buckets in each of South Africa’s nine provinces.
These commitments must at all times guide government commitment to the restoration of our people’s dignity. At the centre of this programme is the immediate attention to be given to water and sanitation infrastructure in terms provision, upgrading and regular maintenance. In some instances, you have taps in communities where there is not a drop of water.
The current sanitation infrastructure crisis confronting the ordinary citizens of Makana Local Municipality as well as the reported water infrastructure syndicate in KwaZulu-Natal must receive immediate attention and intervention as they are but just the tip of the iceberg on what may be a greater challenge in an attempt to move with speed and provide water and sanitation to the people.
This infrastructure improvement and maintenance must be designed in such a way that they create local job opportunities and skills development. In most cases you will find that generators are not working and, if these people are trained to maintain these generators, it will benefit our people in employment. Lastly ...
IsiXhosa:
Okokugqibela - asiyiyo igawuthi mama ndophukile. [Kwahlekwa.] – yintlungu Mphathiswa kumasipala obizwa ngokuba yi-King Sabata Dalindyebo Local Municipality eMthatha, phakathi edolophini kuvuza amanzi. Amanzi ayamoshakala kwaye yiminyaka kusenzeka loo nto. Sasikhe sazama ukunceda ke siyi-UDM kodwa sabhukuqwa. Ngoku sekonakele ngakumbi. Uya kuthi xa ufika eMthatha, ufike kungekho manzi. Nanga amaLungu ePalamente ayayazi loo nto. Siyacela ukuba kukhe kungenelelwe kule nto yokuvuza kwamanzi kulaa masipala waseMthatha. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Mr M A TSEKI
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Mr L B GAEHLER
Mr M A TSEKI–(Gauteng): During this month where our country is honouring the role that Tau Dimosana has played to shape our historical future, let me say that the human race is a being and discrimination does not have its source in nature.
Let me greet you, Chairperson, the Minister, the Deputy Minister, members of the NCOP and guests in this important House. Water is the essence of life. Safe drinking water and sanitation are indispensable to sustain life and health, and fundamental to the dignity of all. Natural water is not a commodity.
Under apartheid, most white and, to a lesser extent, Asian and coloured households had access to running water, sanitation, roads and electricity. In contrast, the share of African households with these amenities was substantially lower. Racial differences were underscored by where people lived and the unequal access they had to services and infrastructure. This was central to the apartheid project and to colonialism.
Not only were those areas that were set aside for urban settlement by Africans - which means the townships, the countryside– not well provided for in terms of household consumption, but they were also mostly devoid of infrastructure services that could support economic development. The need to overcome the household services backlogs particularly in historically African communities and invest in infrastructure to support equitable and efficient growth has shaped the government’s infrastructure provision since 1994.
There is a great achievement we have observed in the country today. We are one of the few countries in the world where we guarantee the right to basic water through the country’s Constitution. We are one of the few countries in the world where the right to sufficient water is enshrined in the Constitution.
Our Constitution reads as follows: ``Everyone has the right to have access to ... sufficient food and water.’’ It further states that: “The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures within its available resources, to achieve the progressive realisation of each of these rights.”
We have almost achieved universal access to water in Gauteng, with only 9%, according to Statistics SA, having no access to piped water. So, we have applied standards beyond those set in the RDP on access to safe and drinkable water. We have maintained high levels of service standards for safe and drinkable water as well as high access to sanitation. Our people have benefited and continue to benefit from the provision of basic water up to a certain quantity.
Given the general scarcity of water, Gauteng mainly imports its water from outside the province due to its high water demand for its more than 13 million people, as well as the industries, agriculture and mining activities. We have benefited a lot from the Lesotho Highlands Water Project, one of the largest water infrastructure projects in the world. We have well developed water infrastructure managed through water boards which provide water pipelines and distribute from reservoirs to municipality.
However, there are challenges. These challenges also exist in relation to the quality of life survey which indicates that improvements can easily be reversed by the growth of informal settlements such that, by 2013, access to piped water was reduced from 93% in 2009 to 91% in 2013.
While access to sanitation is high in the province, we have seen a worrying decline in access in Midvaal from 92% in 2001 to 81% in 2013 – and we know who is running that municipality of Midvaal. The persisting reality of informal settlements and population growth can be attributed to the challenge of meeting basic services like water and sanitation, including the persistence of the bucket system that is used by 1% of the Gauteng households. Overall, nearly 69% of Gauteng residents are satisfied with the provision of water, sanitation and other basic services.
While water infrastructure remains the most developed in this province, we need to invest more in the maintenance of existing water infrastructure. This will require that local government maintain adequate levels of funding for maintenance.
We are faced with a number of pollution threats to our water resources. First of all is the industrial population. The report by the Gauteng department of agriculture indicates a significant threat of mining dumps to radiation dust, toxic water pollution and contamination.
The other threat is acid mine drainage. The impact of acid mine drainage in Gauteng is a significant environmental problem that has a potential to undermine the socioeconomic development of the province and poses a threat to human lives. This is our biggest concern, especially in the West Rand basin, the Central Rand basin - which is Johannesburg - and the Ekurhuleni Rand basin. It is our priority. As government, we are committing resources to adequately deal with these infrastructure threats. We know that this is based on the mines that the mining companies have now left but no one is taking responsibility, in particular the mine bosses.
We believe that Gauteng is on track to ensure that all South Africans have access to clean running water in their homes and that we maintain a reliable supply of water to the highest standards. With these few words from Gauteng, we want to say ..
Xitsonga:
...hikhensile ngopfu Mutshamaxitulu.... [Va phokotela.]
Mr H B GROENEWALD
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Mr M A TSEKI
Mr H B GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of the NCOP, cadre deployment and the appointment of unqualified officials will severely compromise the efficiency of the department. [Interjections.] I can clearly hear that you didn’t listen. I will repeat in a different way.
If the Minister and the Department of Water and Sanitation do not stop employing unqualified people, people who belong to a certain faction in the ruling party in the highly specialised area of water and sanitation, South Africa will end up a country with no clean drinking water and a country full of diseases like E.coli. That will and already threatens people’s livelihoods.
Minister, you have said it. Water is ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, this member is protected. Please continue, Sir.
Mr H B GROENEWALD: Hon Minister, you have already said that water is life and sanitation is dignity. Approximately 11% - and that is 1,4 million of households, formal and informal - still have to be provided with sanitation services. These households have never had a government supported sanitation intervention.
At least 26% of the 3,8 million of households within formal areas have sanitation services which do not meet the required standards due to the deterioration of infrastructure caused by the lack of technical capacity to ensure effective operation, maintenance, refurbishment and/or upgrading, pit emptying services and/or insufficient water resources. Twenty-three municipalities - 9% of the total in South Africa - were in a crisis state with an acute risk of disease outbreak.
The headline of The Citizen newspaper reads, and I quote: ``Water and sanitation crisis causes concern’’ And that was on last Saturday, 23 August 2014. It also reported that youth in the picture filled their buckets with water from a tap after water supply was restored in Boitumelong township in Bloemhof, North West on Thursday afternoon, 29 May 2014. The water was smelly and brown, residents said.
More than 200 people were hospitalised with diarrhoea in that week in the water-depleted North West town which has seen schools shut down and police and municipal officers left without water.
Hon Minister, blame shifting does not solve the problems faced by many South Africans who have to make use of undignified ablution facilities.
We need to work together to eradicate the use of bucket, pit and open toilets.
According to the General Households Survey of 2013, released this year by Statistics SA, the percentage of households who had no access to toilet facilities or who used bucket toilets decreased from 12% in 2002 to 5,3% in 2013. However, the highest proportions of households that had lack of access to toilet facilities or were still using bucket toilets were found in Eastern Cape, and that is 10%, followed by the Free State with 7,7% and the Northern Cape with 7,4%.
More than one-quarter of households that shared toilet facilities complained about the poor hygiene, and that is 25,6%, and 25,1% about poor lighting at these facilities. A further 22% felt that their physical safety was threatened when they had to use the facilities while 13,1% of households felt that the toilets were not adequately enclosed.
The state of access to water and sanitation in South Africa needs to improve.
It broke my heart to hear about the little boy who drowned in a bucket.
Onalenna, the one-year-old son of Maserame Mogoregi in Bloemhof who died on 1 June this year, started vomiting and died of diarrhoea as he had drunk contaminated water in Bloemhof. Reports suggested that pathogenic E coli were found in the water.
Many more babies died in the North West and many were hospitalised.
In Brandfort in the Free State, the sewerage plant overflowed into freshwater streams, contaminating water sources for use by the local population and cattle. Farmers and members of the Brandfort community have reported that the cattle have been infected by the intake of contaminated water and subsequently died.
The Mokopane residents in Limpopo are at risk of facing a cholera outbreak by drinking contaminated water.
In the Dorps River in Mokopane, sewerage pipes have been cut and raw sewerage spills into the river.
The sewerage runs through parts of the area where many residents use boreholes.
The Voortrekker Hospital has already reported that there are more than 10 cases of cholera and diarrhoea on a monthly basis.
The effects of polluted water on human health on the water ecosystem and on various sectors of the economy, including agriculture, industries and recreation can be disastrous. The Minister and his department must be held accountable.
The issue of accountability is vital and important. Tabling reports with no resulting action is a waste of the public’s money.
Hon Minister, it has been two decades since South Africa’s transition from apartheid to democracy, but far too many South Africans are still dreaming of the day they will have or make use of dignified sanitation facilities.
Even to those who have some form of decent sanitation, access to flushable toilets remain a luxury for many who use the bucket system, pit latrines and chemical toilets.
There are many factors behind the slow pace of sanitation delivery. There is no political will to improve sanitation in South Africa – politicians have access to proper toilets and see no urgency in ensuring universal access to proper toilets. There is poor coordination between municipalities and water service providers. Tenders to build infrastructure are awarded to people who have no idea on what they are doing and end up doing shoddy work. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Groenewald, there is a point of order.
Mr J P PARKIES: Chairperson. I want to pose a question to the hon member.
Mr H B GROENEWALD: No, not now.
Mr J P PARKIES: It is a simple question. It is not a serious one.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, he is not prepared, Sir. Thank you.
Mr H B GROENEWALD: There is no single national authority that monitors whether municipal sanitation services are delivered, including the monitoring of construction of infrastructure. Municipalities don’t have the necessary technical capacity to plan, implement and manage infrastructure effectively. Poor financial planning and management is rife in municipalities and leads to inadequate budget allocations for maintenance and the inappropriate use of allocated funds.
Rapid growth in informal settlements, particularly in urban areas, forces municipalities to provide the bucket system toilets. There are service delivery backlogs – the waiting list for toilets keeps on growing – There are refurbishment backlogs caused by the lack of technical capacity at the municipal level. There are extension backlogs – existing infrastructure needs to be extended to provide sanitations to new households.
Far too many South Africans have lost their confidence in this department and we urgently appeal to the Minister to take it in her stride and present this House with a comprehensive strategy to mitigate our risks of consuming contaminated water and securing our water source for generations to come.
In conclusion, Minister, the buck stops with you, to act and secure South Africa’s water resources. I thank you.
Mr M FRANSMAN
Mr H B GROENEWALD
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Mr M FRANSMAN (Western Cape): Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Ministers present, members of the NCOP, let me first of all say that what we have heard today from the Minister really gives confidence to the people of South Africa but, in particular, also to the people of the Western Cape where there is an issue of compliance and where there are issues of integrated co-operative development on these issues.
The problem of the poor has to be reflected and focused on. Therefore, I want to say that one is disappointed by the fact that the provincial government and the Western Cape legislature, in the form of hon Mnqasela, came and did not present a proper approach to how to deal with the issue of sanitation in the Western Cape. It is as if there is no problem of sanitation in the Western Cape. [Applause.]
The dilemma with that is that the delivery of development to our people, hon Mnqasela, is not a beauty competition. What you are doing is reaffirming what apartheid and colonialism did in South Africa. [Applause.] If you are saying that the Western Cape is the best, you are, by implication, arguing that homelands were good because the Western Cape did not have homelands. You are also arguing that the issue around influx control was right because there were very serious influx control measures within the Western Cape. We sit with a backlog. It is a very real backlog, and those are the issues that you must deal with. However, let’s look at the track record.
If we look at the Western Cape, let’s see whether integrated human settlements are taking place. Historically, under apartheid, we thought that we could actually see integration, that people in the southeast metro, consisting of Khayelitsha, Mitchells Plain, Delft and others, could stay closer to where they worked. Is that happening in the Western Cape? No! People are, in fact, being put further away from where they are. That is the contradiction that we have.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Fransman, there is a point of order.
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Chairperson, I was just wondering whether the hon member would be willing to take my question, please.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Are you willing, sir?
Mr M FRANSMAN (Western Cape): Only if it will not impact on my time. Then I surely will be able to take the question.
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Should I continue, Chairperson?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: He said if it does not impact on his time. When he starts talking, the clock runs.
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Then, thank you, Chair.
Mr M FRANSMAN (Western Cape): Now, let’s look at this so-called “best”. It is indeed best for those in Constantia, but it is not best for the people in the southeast metro, where we have the farming and rural communities, because we can take you to where the people do not have sanitation.
Let’s look at the five-year track record. This is what we call the politics of deception. It is a botox-approach to politics in the Western Cape.
Since 2009, the DA-run province has consistently failed to meet its annual targets. This is factual. Whatever I will be saying is factual. They consistently failed to meet their targets. For one, they said when they came in they would make sure that there would be at least 100 000 people benefiting from housing in the five-year period. Let us look at the track record. It has dropped, with a budget of 100% more, from R1 billion to R2 billion since 2009, but they have dropped the actual delivery to less than 50%. That is basically what has happened. Whatever I will be saying is factual!
What we have here is that the province has decided to move into what they call serviced sites. Let us look at the 2012-13 and 2013-14 serviced sites. They have moved from 20 000 serviced sites, on average, since 2009 down to fewer than 10 000 per annual report of the Western Cape government. That is what you call best! [Interjections.] I am saying per annual report, meaning the document of the provincial government.
We are saying what they further did was to say that the number of houses would be increased. Fewer than 10 000 – in fact, let me be specific: 11 000 housing units were built in the last financial year. That is what they call best, because best has nothing to do with the poorest of the poor. It has nothing to do with the people, the communities where we are staying.
What they have also done is that it has been found that the underspend in terms of the City of Cape Town, the underspend on infrastructure is less than R1 billion. That is what they call ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Fransman, there is a point of order. Yes, madam?
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, this is a point of order in terms of relevance to the sanitation debate and it’s a point of order on the relevance of what the member calls “best”. The previous speaker referred to the Management Performance Assessment Tool, MPAT, report of the President’s office, and this speaker refers to “best.” Can he just give an indication what he is referring to? [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, members! On the point of relevance, members, I started off by saying that we allow delegates representing the provinces to reflect on the national issues. We have taken that view also but cautioned when there was persistence by Ntate Mnqasela not to come back to the topic. In this regard, we will ask the hon member at the podium to return to the topic, but on the point of whether or not he is quoting correctly, he says that he is using the provincial annual reports, which means that he is on point. Please continue.
Mr M FRANSMAN (Western Cape): Chairperson, if one looks at the reason – because we ask the question why then has the provincial and city governments failed to deliver proper sanitation to the poor communities – the answer is simple. It is refugees who stay in those areas, as pronounced by the premier of the province.
What did hon Mnqasela try and hide when he attacked the human rights report? Let’s reflect on that. He was trying to hide the reality that the report of the SA Human Rights Commission stated in July 2014 that Cape Town discriminates against the African people of Khayelitsha. I want to quote. ``The SA Human Rights Commission last month said the city is unreasonable in providing chemical toilets as a long-term measure’’ - not as an interim measure, meaning that they are institutionalising something that is not supposed to happen. The problem with that is, when the City of Cape Town’s mayor, Mayor De Lille, goes to those areas after they refused to clean the area for six months, she goes with a mask. Our people do not have masks every day when they are in that area. What the hon member tried to hide when he was speaking was that the SA Human Rights Commission also revealed that the city ``is unreasonably using emergency housing guidelines’’, and this is the dilemma.
Minister, they use guidelines, and then they use virements. [Interjections.] So, you put money into the city... Not “violence”! [Laughter.] It is the reconfiguration of the budget. She thought I said ``violence’’. [Laughter.] What they are doing is putting money in – the national government puts national funds into the city - And then they use that money, and they redirect it to give the best services in Blouberg and not in the poor communities. This is what was found.
The SA Human Rights Commission continues by saying that the city should take “significant measures to reinforce community engagement.” So, there is a problem. When people start to march, it is precisely because the provincial government and the city government have locked off engagement. We now know why they are doing it. It is because they create distance with the communities, the poorest of the poor communities, and hence we call on the national Ministers present to help us engage on that.
What did they say about equality? The SA Human Rights Commission – this report that the hon member tried to attack _ said the following: The SA Human Rights Commission found that the violation of the rights to access basic sanitation fell disproportionately on blacks. That is what it has pronounced on. This is the problem that we have. Therefore, it recommended that new sanitation norms and standards be developed. Minister, I want to request that you look into your department and ask the department why it is that housing developments in the province only take place in wetlands. There is a reason. Why are they not putting in place applications for housing delivery in Constantia? Why don’t they put it in Blouberg? There is provincial and municipal land right there. The reason has ... [Interjections.] ... hon member, to do with the hard fact of “not in my backyard”.
Afrikaans:
Hou hulle daar anderkant. [Keep them over there.]
English:
Do not bring them closer here. [Applause.] That is the hard reality.
What we would call the NCOP to reflect on is, in particular, a visit to the Western Cape to visit the hot-spot areas. It will not be easy for any person in the townships to simply stand up and march with these porta-potties. There must be a fundamental reason – apart from ill discipline. There must be a fundamental reason. They have also cut water in the Western Cape, which is a basic right.
I conclude, Chairperson, by saying that we will call on both the hon members from the DA who spoke just now to not get the Premier of the Western Cape to first sign off their speeches before they come here. Thank you. [Applause.]
Cllr D SHONGWE (Salga)
Mr M FRANSMAN
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Cllr D SHONGWE (Salga): Hon Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Minister of Water and Sanitation, hon Deputy Minister of Co-operative Governance, hon members, let me congratulate the Minister of Water and Sanitation for organising a successful water summit held from 01 to 02 August 2014. [Applause.] The SA Local Government Association, Salga, can bear testimony to the success of the event.
As we deliberate today on this important topic, I should remind the House of the journey we have travelled as municipalities in our quest to deliver sustainable water and sanitation services. In 2003, the majority of municipalities, particularly district municipalities, were given powers and functions through section 84 notices. Today, 11 years later, our programmes have provided over 90% and 76% of our people with access to clean water and sanitation services respectively.
These achievements can be attributed to a number of factors, key amongst others are: the funding from the fiscus through the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG; equitable share and municipal own sources; working collaboratively with other spheres of government and organs of state; and, most importantly, finding common solutions through community engagement and involvement of the private sector.
However, despite our achievements in providing access to these important services, we have also witnessed increasing service delivery protests. Sanitation is much more than simply delivering toilets. Sanitation is about dignity, public health and a better life for all.
Hon Chairperson, it is in this context that we need to scale up our efforts to provide sanitation services that offer dignity and lasting improvements to peoples’ hygiene. This message was reaffirmed at the water summit, particularly by the Minister of Water and Sanitation, who emphasised the need to work with communities and to strengthen our partnerships in the delivery of water and sanitation services.
We welcome the mandate of the new Department of Water and Sanitation. We believe that with this mandate the department can take responsibility for providing leadership to the sanitation sector, particularly in terms of policy formulation, funding, oversight, and support to municipalities. Local government is best placed to engage with local communities. However, sanitation is complex and requires guidance and support from all sectors and spheres of government.
Allow me to highlight areas in which Salga and member municipalities can contribute towards speeding up the delivery of water and sanitation. These include, amongst others, firstly, the development of a sanitation policy. Salga has developed a proposal which we would like to be considered towards the development of a coherent sanitation policy. Currently there is no policy that guides the delivery of sanitation services.
Over the last seven years, municipalities and other players in the sanitation sector were left to make their own policy choices in the delivery of sanitation infrastructure and related services. This policy gap must be addressed as a matter of urgency.
Secondly is planning. We were encouraged by the direction and priorities identified during the water summit. Three game changers include the development of a 10-year infrastructure plan; the need to engage robustly with communities we serve, and harmonising the roles and responsibilities of institutions in all spheres of government. Comprehensive and solid planning is essential if we are to move beyond a purely infrastructural approach to water and sanitation and reach sustainable improvements.
Thirdly is the review of the local government infrastructure grant system. National Treasury, together with Salga and other key stakeholders, are in the process of reviewing all local government infrastructure grants primarily to answer two fundamental questions: do the grants fund the right things? Do they fund things right? Essentially this process seeks to define and understand areas that require reconfiguration with an objective of facilitating efficient, cost-effective and reliable service delivery.
A key priority for Salga within the overall fiscal architecture is the need to ensure sufficient revenue for operations and maintenance as well as the renewal of infrastructure. Hon Chairperson, you will appreciate that many of our rural municipalities, particularly districts, are faced with serious infrastructure challenges.
We hope that the grant review process will address some of these concerns and take on board our proposals to also ensure adequate institutional capacity and support to municipalities in the delivery of water and sanitation services. This House will be kept abreast on the final proposals once approved by the budget forum of October 2014.
The fourth one is water and sanitation technological choices. A collaborative research project between Salga and the Water Research Commission on both water and wet sanitation technological choices employed by municipalities revealed some shocking results. In the 18 research test sites, it was found that 41% of the technologies employed were inappropriate, which means that technology was not best fit for the context. In this regard poor technology choices will result in dysfunctional systems and service delivery failure.
In our quest to resolve these matters, Salga is in discussion with the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent and other players to establish water and sanitation technological forums solely to advice municipalities on appropriate water and sanitation technologies. This approach is seen as a step in the right direction towards employing sustainable and appropriate technological choices which contributes to speeding up service delivery in a cost-effective manner.
The fifth one is research and innovation. As we move forward in the delivery of water and sanitation, the research agenda will be core in identifying innovative approaches to speeding up service delivery. Recently, eThekwini Municipality was named the 2014 winner of the Stockholm Industry Water Award for its transformative, innovative and inclusive approach to providing water and sanitation services.
The Stockholm Industry Water Award honours outstanding achievements by institutions that contribute to sustainable water management. Together with the Melisa and Bill Gates Foundation, eThekwini Water and Sanitation is pioneering research that seeks to find cost-effective sanitation solutions. We believe that this research will not only lead to innovative ways of delivering sanitation but also contribute to waste-to-energy solutions and promoting sanitation as a resource.
The sixth one is bucket eradication. The 2007-08 bucket eradication programme has taught us some important lessons. During our interactions with municipalities, concerns were expressed about the approach adopted in the programme. High amongst the concerns was the emphasis on infrastructure-driven solutions without provision for operation and maintenance or health and hygiene awareness. [Interjections.] Because of time, let me conclude. As we move South Africa forward on the delivery of sustainable services, we must endeavour to measure the performance of the sector. Salga, together with the Water Research Commission, has done some work in this area through benchmarking performance. A report to this effect is available and can be shared with stakeholders.
Finally, hon Chairperson, let me assure you that municipalities are ready to engage and collaborate with other spheres of government and organs of state in the quest to deliver good quality water and dignified sanitation services. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Cllr D SHONGWE
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, hon members, thank you very much for the opportunity to participate in this very important debate. It’s a special honour to follow on from our colleague and ally Minister Nomvula Mokonyane. Access to sanitation is fundamental to human dignity. And human dignity is the most fundamental value in our Constitution. Many constitutions have their bill of rights at the end – almost as an annexure. It’s no accident that our Constitution places the Bill of Rights in Chapter 2, immediately after the founding provisions of our Republic. [Applause.]
Our Constitution recognises that access to housing, health care, food, water and social security are fundamental to ensuring a quality of life that is consistent with human dignity. The bucket system undermines and endangers the health and wellbeing of people, especially vulnerable groups such as women and children. It degrades our environment, it’s undignified and dehumanising. As Minister Mokonyane said, water is life, sanitation is dignity.
In 1994, the people of South Africa voted in overwhelming numbers for a better life. They mandated their movement, the African National Congress, to lead society in the reconstruction and development of a nation devastated by centuries of colonialism and decades of apartheid. Democratic South Africa inherited a legacy of division and inequality, poverty and underdevelopment and a denial of human dignity to the majority of its citizens. The prevalence of the bucket system in black townships and former homelands illustrates the fault lines and the core contradictions that even today we have to deal with.
If the past holds our present firmly in its grip, then our collective duty must be to ensure that it doesn’t strangle our future. To ensure that we break the grip of the past, government devoted all available resources to provide water, sanitation, electricity, roads and other basic services to those who were denied these services by apartheid. We have come a long way. We have, through our actions, written a good story, that all of us should be proud to tell.
According to the 1996 census, over 5 million households had no access to water. By the 2011 census this had decreased to 1,6 million. The 1996 census showed that 7 million households did not have proper sanitation facilities. This had been reduced to 2,4 million households by 2011. [Applause.] In 2004 government committed itself to eradicate all bucket latrines in informal settlements by December of 2007. This commitment was backed by R1,8 billion allocated to municipalities for the 2005-6 to 2007-8 financial years. This funding was ring-fenced in the municipal infrastructure grant and transferred directly to municipal councils. The programme was phenomenally successful.
A study conducted by the then Department of Water Affairs and Forestry found that in 2005 there were 252 254 bucket latrines dating from the pre-1994 era in informal settlements. By the 2008-9 financial year, 98% or 247 209 bucket latrines had been eradicated. All spheres of government had collaborated in a national effort to restore the dignity of our people by providing proper sanitation. At the time, Mr David Radebe, an unemployed citizen living at stand number 8647 Mandela section in Ngwate Municipality said, and I quote:
I am very happy to have a water-borne toilet as the bucket was unhealthy and caused bad odours. I can’t afford to buy toilet paper and chemicals to clean the toilet every month because I am not working. I am now at peace when I go to the toilet as the structure is well built unlike the one I used before.
[Applause.]
This is, indeed, a caring government - a government driven by the ideals of our Constitution and informed by the approach of people-centred and people-driven development. This programme enjoyed political support and commitment, starting from the President through Ministers, premiers, MECs for local government, mayors and councillors.
However, our journey is still far from over. According to census 2011, there are still 297 847 bucket latrines in operation. This includes buckets in both the formal and informal settlements. The census didn’t distinguish between formal and informal settlements. However, according to a study conducted by the Department of Human Settlements, the number of bucket latrines in informal settlements stood at 88 127 buckets in 2010.
This is indicative of the complexity of the challenge facing us, a challenge closely linked with the eradication and the transformation of apartheid spatial patterns and the successful management of urbanisation. We should use the lessons learnt during the 2005 programmme to address the remaining sanitation challenges.
In the 2014 state of the nation address, President Zuma announced the establishment of the Inter-Ministerial Committee, IMC, on Service Delivery to drive and co-ordinate access to basic services. The IMC will be chaired and co-ordinated by the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Mr Pravin Gordhan. The Ministers of Planning, Performance Monitoring and Evaluation in the Presidency, Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation, Transport, Home Affairs, Public Enterprises, Energy, Rural Development and Land Reform, Health and Basic Education are all members of this IMC.
The IMC will strengthen collaboration between national departments and between role-players across the three spheres of government. This is a government that says what it means and means what it says. [Applause.]
Our successes must inspire us with impatience and an even greater sense of urgency to reach those we haven’t reached yet. Besides eradicating bucket latrines in informal areas, we must ensure that we address the challenges of informal settlements.
We also need, as the Minister of Water and Sanitation said earlier here today, to explore creative solutions based on an understanding that different circumstances will require different solutions. Work started before the 2014 national and provincial elections by the sanitation troika consisting of the Ministers of Water and Sanitation, Human Settlements and Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. This work will be continued by the IMC on Basic Service Delivery.
Municipalities have been allocated R14,7 billion in municipal infrastructure grants for the 2014-15 financial year. This funding is distributed to more than 238 municipalities in terms of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, formula. The current MIG funding is addressing all infrastructure sectors such as water, sanitation, roads and storm water, sports and recreation, waste management infrastructure, community infrastructure, community lighting and infrastructure for SMME development. Funding for municipalities that still have bucket latrines is not sufficient to allow them to prioritise bucket eradication. There is a need for ring-fenced budgets within MIG to assist municipalities to address the remaining bucket sanitation challenges.
We need to learn lessons from the bucket latrine eradication programme that was launched in 2005: One, there was a platform where all stakeholders could engage and interact to solve problems; two, sector departments were able to bring verified data which could be used to design projects; three, sector departments provided guidelines to define the backlog levels and the service levels to be provided; four, communities should be consulted to avoid delays due to rejection of the level of service being provided; five, a proper communication strategy must be implemented to ensure realistic expectations regarding timeframes and service levels. Public representatives at all spheres have a leading role to play. In the words of Amilcar Cabral, ``they must hide no difficulties, tell no lies and claim no easy victories.’’
Six, municipalities must have sufficient time for proper project planning to avoid challenges such as tender prices higher than approved project budgets, budget provisions due to unforeseen geotechnical conditions, etc.
Seven, contracts must impose penalties for unnecessary delays by contractors, and contracts must be terminated where contractors don’t adhere to timeframes and deliver poor quality work. And, in that regard, I just want to say to the hon Khawula of the IFP that, the point is well taken. We mustn’t sacrifice service delivery on the altar of black economic empowerment. But neither must we turn a blind eye and sacrifice service delivery on the altar of white monopoly capital. [Applause.] I am not sure why the hon member chose to highlight BEE when it’s public knowledge that the Competition Commission has identified cartels of white monopoly capital who have defrauded the taxpayers of our nation of billions of rand. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ntate Khawula, is that a point of order? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: It is absolutely criminal and despicable ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Deputy Minister ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: ... what those companies have done. [Interjections.]
Mr M KHAWULA: Chairperson, I wanted to indicate that I am actually agreeing with the Minister’s statement. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Eight, procurement processes must be shortened to accelerate project implementation. Nine, funding shortfalls faced by municipalities must be motivated timeously. Based on these lessons, the Department of Co-operative Governance is co-ordinating all role- players in the municipal infrastructure development sphere to assist municipalities to ensure that grant funding to the most needy communities is prioritised.
We are working very closely with the Departments of Water and Sanitation and Human Settlements. Committed funding is being aligned to verify backlogs in the water sector, in line with the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, for Outcome 9 that requires government to set norms and standards to be implemented in accelerating basic service provision. The MTSF requires us to implement a radical shift in our approach to basic service delivery. We must provide a pipeline of costed projects for each municipality and a demonstration of targeted households in settlements to benefit. We need more collaboration and better planning.
Recently, National Treasury implemented the off-setting clause of the Division of Revenue Act that allows National Treasury to withhold equitable shares to recover unspent grants. This risk can be mitigated by improving municipal planning capacity, especially on those projects funded from national transfers. We are supporting municipalities to plan, implement, operate and maintain infrastructure projects or implement alternative delivery mechanisms where local municipalities or districts lack technical capacity.
We must establish an integrated monitoring system for tracking the implementation of this pipeline of projects. We will continue to strengthen and support the planning and the delivery of services by municipalities within the framework of integrated development planning. We will co-ordinate sector department commitments within the municipal support, monitoring and intervention plans.
We would like to ... wait. Before we say that, there are one or two other little things that we must say. The hon Mnqasela came here and, I think, displayed - for me - a very peculiar attitude to a debate of this nature, which we started off by saying goes to the heart and soul of the Constitution, which is the foundation of our Republic – something that binds all of us together.
When we look at that Constitution – the architecture of that Constitution – it’s very clear that we are a unitary state. We are a unitary state that gives certain powers and responsibilities to provinces, and certain powers and responsibilities to the local government sphere. But there is no question that this is a unitary state committed to ensuring that the dignity of our people is restored. And I think that requires a common national effort.
It requires of us to unite in the way that our National Development Plan outlines - the National Development Plan which all parties in this House have agreed that they support. And therefore I don’t think it can be correct that we come here with an attitude of division, an attitude reminiscent of the past and an attitude of fragmentation and division when what is required is unity – unity of purpose, unity of resources and the unity of commitment. I don’t think it assists us to engage in blame games.
An HONOURABLE MEMBER: What is that?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: A blame game is something where you don’t engage in the healthy practice of criticism and self-criticism, but you stick your head in the sand and point some part of your anatomy to everyone else. [Laughter.] That can’t be a constructive approach.
Secondly, those one or two aberrations aside, I think this has been a tremendously constructive and helpful debate. We want to commend the NCOP for having this debate, because we won’t achieve our objective of eradicating bucket latrines without collaboration across these three spheres of government. And the NCOP is an institution which is ideally placed to play a very important role to ensure that that collaboration across our three spheres takes place.
Indeed, water is life and sanitation is dignity. Let us work to together to take South Africa forward. I thank you. [Applause.]
Dr Y C VAWDA/ END OF TAKE
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Dr Y C VAWDA: Allow me please to first and foremost acknowledge the presence of our supreme forces, irrespective of whatever our perceptions might be. I greet all you with As-saalamu-alai-kum – may God’s peace be with you.
Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon MECs, hon members, and guests in the gallery if there are any left, in February 2014, six-year-old Michael Komape from Chebeng Village in Limpopo fell into a pit toilet at his school and sadly lost his life. This presentation is dedicated to the memory of this little boy, to his family and to his friends.
The fact is that while access to sanitation is increasing from a functionality and adequacy point of view, about 25% - about 3 million households - are at risk of experiencing service delivery failure or are at risk of experiencing service delivery breakdowns. Add to this the almost 9% or over 1 million households in informal settlements that have no services and the over 500 000 households or 64% of households in informal settlements making use of interim services, and we get a picture of service delivery failure on a massive scale.
Diseases can spread from poor sanitation. Sanitation is the hygienic means of promoting health through prevention of human contact with the hazards of waste as well as the treatment and proper disposal of sewage wastewater. Provision of this important function is well documented in the Constitution of South Africa. Support in this regard will not only comply with constitutional fulfilment, but also decrease strain on the health services.
Hon Deputy Minister Nel, reference to the Constitution and failure to deliver is further and stronger indictment of the poor performance of this government. And this coming from a government that means what it says. But I digress, of course.
Globally 1,8 billion more people used improved sanitation in 2010 than in 1990, bringing the percentage of people using sanitation to 63%. As the situation the world over improves, South Africa, with our tremendous resources, should prove no exception.
Sanitation not only refers to a wide range of subjects, improved sanitation at the household level, on site sanitation, food sanitation, environment sanitation and ecological sanitation, but sanitation also refers to more than that, and the detrimental effects of poor management in this regard are also far-reaching.
We have spent some time on the definition of sanitation. This is because one cannot help but wonder whether people really understand the importance of the provision of water and the provision of proper and adequate waste management. Thankfully, today we have not heard much about the so-called good story. In fact I’ve noticed that the term ``white monopoly capital’’ seems to be creeping into the vocabulary. [Applause.] Guess where that one comes from? I digress again, so I’ll come back to the topic. Thank you for not raising points of order.
The World Health Organisation states that sanitation generally refers to the provision of facilities and services for the safe disposal of human urine and faeces. Inadequate sanitation is a major cause of diseases worldwide and improving sanitation is known to have a significant beneficial impact on health, both in households and across communities. The word ``sanitation’’ also refers to the maintenance of hygienic conditions through services such as garbage collection and waste water disposal.
We recommend - going forward - hon Ministers, that we realise the rights of our people by ensuring that priority is given to basic sanitation and also to review the effectiveness of intergovernmental collaboration in this regard and that includes national, provincial and local collaboration.
We also recommended that we ensure that all members of our population have access to a closed toilet facility and to develop plans and strategies to resolve the backlogs in this regard. We recommended that you undertake an assessment of water and sanitation challenges and again identify means to address the backlogs.
Undertake an assessment of water and sanitation challenges and identify means to address these. Assess current infrastructural and sanitation projects and the reasons for service delivery failures. Submit regular reports detailing the progress made with respect to water and sanitation supply to address water challenges, particularly in relation to vulnerable groups. Develop immediate measures to remove impurities, discolouration and micro-organisms - in a day and age when we are faced with very serious health threats, especially such as the present one of Ebola and also the HIV/Aids epidemic.
Given the tough fiscal climate, bold and creative decisions may be needed regarding how money is allocated, but prioritising in this regard is not negotiable. [Interjections.] I shall conclude.
Hon members, we take this opportunity to once more remind you of little Michael and many people who have been injured or killed while protesting for their rights. [Interjections.] Shall I finish? Is my time up?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Conclude, hon member.
Dr Y C VAWDA: I am concluding, hon Chairperson.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Conclude, Sir.
Dr Y C VAWDA: Okay. I will conclude by saying water is essential for life but I’ve noticed that the hon Minister and the hon Deputy Minister seem to be googling in the same area. I won’t say anything about fools because we all know where wise men tread. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Vawda, could you just elaborate a little bit about the fools.
Dr Y C VAWDA: Thank you for the opportunity, Chairperson.
I was saying that I’ve noticed that the hon Minister, as well as the hon Deputy Minister, made reference to water being essential for life and sanitation adding to dignity. I was going to use the same quotation and observed that the Minister and the Deputy Minister seem to have Googled the same topics that I did. So, I said that I will make no mention about fools because is it not so that wise men share the same thoughts. Thank you, hon Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you for that. I am happy that there are no fools in this Council.
Ms O MLAMLELI
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Dr Y C VAWDA
Ms S M MLAMLELI (Free State): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Water and Sanitation, Comrade Nomvula Mokonyane, Deputy Ministers, the MECs present, ladies and gentlemen, all protocol observed. I just want to remind the hon member who claimed unlawfully and incorrectly that the Western Cape is number one in education: Dit is net haat, Vrystaat! It cannot be, hon Chair. They are number one in entrenching apartheid tendencies of bad sanitation in Dunoon, Philippi and Kosovo in contrast to the situation in Bloubergstrand.
It is amazing, really, that the hon member will stand up and say that our municipalities and the Department of Water Affairs are not appointing qualified people. It is not true. We are appointing qualified chemical engineers, who are working with the hydraulics, and so forth. Black people who are competent and qualified lead our water boards. In the Free State, for instance, they are led by Dr Moorosi - a woman.
I was amazed, on coming to this hon House, to find that the language used is misleading. Chairperson, what does the word ``contamenting’’ mean? Can I take the opportunity to teach the hon member that it is pronounced as ``contaminating’’. [Laughing.]
In the Free State we are going to look at the sewer in Voortrekker Road in Kroonstad, and the Voortrekker hospital. Let me thank the hon member for reminding me that in the Free State we still have the bad name of ``Voortrekker’’. While we deal with sanitation, we will also change the name ``Voortrekker’’.
It is not a sin for all of us in this House to quote from the Constitution. We are proud to do that. That is our Constitution, the beloved one. No matter how the hon member, the last speaker, defines sanitation, bad sanitation is bad sanitation. How will you be in a position to come up with strategies when you know very well that you are from the rally? Today, you find yourself in Parliament.
Chairperson, allow me to contribute on this critical discussion and the programme intended to improve and better the lives of our people.
Sesotho:
Modulasetulo, ke kopa hore ke nke monyetla ona ho hopotsa Ntlo ena hore matlwana ao re buang ka ona, ke ntho tse tshabehang haholo. Ke matlwana a neng a sa sebediswe ... [Interjections.]
English:
The chairperson of the ncop: Hon MEC, there is a hand. Yes, ma’am?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, I want to check if it is parliamentary to say an hon member has come from the rally to Parliament.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mokwele, the last time I checked, it was not unparliamentary to refer to rallies. I think what you want us to address is whether, when we extrapolate, we are saying that certain members are not fit. However, that is not what the member said. I am simply saying that when you look at the sentence, as it was put, that it is not unparliamentary. It would be good, hon members, if we could really begin to debate like adults, and do not reflect on other things, which actually just devalue and debase our debates. Therefore, I am going to ask that we debate on issues, and we do not tackle the persons. Thank you.
Ms S M MLAMLELI (Free State): Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Chairperson, ...
Sesotho:
Ke nka monyetla ona ho hopotsa Ntlo hore matlwana ana ao re buang ka ona, ke matlwana a tshabehang. A tlosang seriti sa motho. O siya ntho kahara ntlwana, hosane ha o tsoha o kena ntlwaneng, o fumana tsona tseo o di siileng maobane. Modulasetulo, tseo kaofela ke tse bolelang hore bommisisi, [Mevrou.] bobase, [Baas.] bo klein mmisisi, [Klein mevrou.] le bo klein baas ba ne ba sa di sebedise.
English:
Chairperson, the Bloem Water authority entered into an agreement with the Department of Water Affairs, and the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs as well as the Department of Human Settlements to be an implementing agent in the Free State Water and Sanitation Programme. The aim was to ensure the eradication of the buckets sanitation system in the province over three years. Therefore, the departments of co-operative governance and traditional affairs, Cogta, and human settlements in the province are working well with Bloem Water for implementation.
The programme commenced in November 2013 and is budgeted for as follows: For 2013-14 - R230 million; 2014-15 - R335 million, and 2015-16 - R360 million. The total is R925 million. The mentioned budget has to deal with backlogs as follows: In all 20 local municipalities there are a total of 35 889 buckets. It is not only the bucket toilets, but we also have the VIP toilets, and we know that there is nothing VIP or very important about that! Nevertheless, we have 49 708 VIPs. There are 56 902 pit latrines, including those in Qwaqwa.
I need to mention the following municipalities as examples of the municipalities which have a high number of bucket systems and VIP toilets. Setsoto Municipality has 9 793 buckets and 1 562 VIPs as well as 3 540 pit latrines. The total is 12 943.
Mangaung has only 1 585 buckets but 34 794 VIPs, and 19 359 pit latrines. The total is 55 700.
I want to take this opportunity to inform the House that the department of human settlements and Cogta in the province gave R100 million to Mangaung to support them with the sanitation programme. We reacted quickly to assist the municipality by commissioning honey-suckers to the amount of R5 million to assist in Thaba Nchu and Botshabelo.
We went further by purchasing two honey suckers. We have also requested assistance from Mama Action, Comrade Nomvula Mokonyane. She promised us help, and we thank her for that. Chairperson, in order to eradicate all of those bucket toilets that I have mentioned ... [Interjections.]
Mr V E MTILENI: Hon Chair, I wonder if it is parliamentary to say Minister Nomvula Mokonyane is ``Mama Action’. I think I am correct. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I will judge. There is nothing unparliamentary in referring to the hon Minister of Water and Sanitation as ``Mama Action’’, if she does not have issues with it. Please continue, Mme Mlamleli.
Ms M O MLAMLELI (Free State): Thank you, hon Chairperson.
I know that exactly. I will even go further to talk about Papa Action, Papa Hlasela, Ace Magashule. [Laughter.]
Chairperson, for us to be able to eradicate all 35 000 buckets, we need R1, 2 billion. The current available budget of R925 million is only sufficient to eradicate 26 000 buckets. So more budget is needed to deal with the remaining 7 000.
The water and sanitation bulk infrastructure budget is allocated by the Department of Water and Sanitation under the Regional Bulk Infrastructure Grant, Municipal Water Infrastructure Grant, and Accelerated Community Infrastructure Programme. These are the programmes that we have under this ANC-led government. Thank you very much, ANC.
The Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, programmes are also expected to expedite water-related programmes within its domain. We are aware that there are still corrugated iron structures. However, we advise the municipalities and the service providers that when they want to utilise alternative methods, they must communicate and solicit support from respective communities, and that is happening. So far no problems have been reported.
As the Minister has already alluded, we have 4 516 completed and flushing toilets. We also have some that are connected but not yet flushing because of some water projects going on. However, I want to emphasise and agree with my hon Minister, Mama Hlasela, Mama Action, that we have built 9 223 toilets within seven months. [Applause.]
I also share with the House that in the Free State, early this year, we opened the water pump station. We are pumping water from Vaal River in Christiana. We have put a 50km pipe to Hertzorgville where we opened the water treatment plant. [Applause.]
Chairperson and members of the House, the second phase is to put a pipe from Kimberly that will transport water to Boshof and Dealesville to ensure that we are providing water as a basic need of life. [Applause.]
To continue, we are planning - together with the Minister, Comrade Nomvula Mokonyane - to put up a pipe of 250km from Xhariep Dam to Bloemfontein. That will help, and is a responsibility guided by the Constitution. Hon members, we are not ashamed to quote our Constitution.
We further report that in Paul Roux, both white and black people have been depending on boreholes for hundreds of years. Today, we do have a water treatment plant. We have built two dams to assist and water is running through the taps. We went further to put a pipe from Bethlehem to Rosendal. We are proceeding to Fouriesburg.
The following are the challenges in that regard and may delay the progress. For example, in Dewetsdorp an upgrade of the pump station is underway. Therefore, we cannot connect, and we cannot flush. In Lindley, Arlington and Petrusburg water supply is a challenge. In Ficksburg, the existing sewerage network is in a poor state; upgrading is needed. Ladies and gentlemen, let us remember ...
Sesotho:
Bomme le bontate, ha re hopoleng hore, haele hantle, ke bo mang ba ntseng ba kenya moralomotheo ona o seng o ntse o tsofala, jwalokaha ho se ho boletswe.
English:
In Reitz, the water supply is a challenge. The previously installed grey water system is not functional.
Sesotho:
E kentswe ke makgowa ka nako eo.
English:
The Department of Water Affairs and Sanitation has to complete the bulk water pipeline from Reitz.
Sesotho:
Di kenngwa ho tswa toropong hobane ho tloha qalong, di ne di le siyo.
English:
In conclusion, I want to thank our hon Minister and the premier.
Sesotho:
Ba entse bonnete ba hore ba a tla, ho tla re thusa. O butse metsi a dihlaba a neng a feta Foreisetata a ya Gauteng. O a buletse, a kene kahara Foreisetata.
English:
We have visited the plant.
Sesotho:
Re a bone ka mahlo. Leha ho le jwalo Modulasetulo ya hlomphehang ...
English:
I want to say to the Minister ...
Sesotho:
Hlokomela batho ba etsang boqitolo le ba tsietsang. Mashodu a utswang metsi.
English:
There are water thieves on the way to towns and the cities. Chairperson, we agree, support, and appreciate the intervention done by the Minister. That is how Vrystaat is doing. Haak Vrystaat! Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms E C VAN LINGEN
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Ms S M MLAMLELI
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, as the hon Van Lingen is moving towards the front ... [Interjections.] Order!
I think that, as the House, we’ve heard a number of stories around who is number one in education. The truth of the matter and for the record is that, in terms of the results that were officially launched, the Free State was number one and the North West number two. The fact of the matter is that - I’m not finished yet - the learners wrote the supplementary exams and, thereafter, the North West overtook the Free State into the number one spot. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms E C VAN LINGEN: Hon Chairperson, congratulations to the North West.
Hon Minister, on 4 July, you replied to one of our questions in the NCOP and you stressed the point that municipalities, as at 31 May, owed, because of overdue accounts, an amount of R1,4 billion on their water accounts to Water Boards, water services authorities and water services providers. The total outstanding amount owed by municipalities on 31 May was R2,55 billion.
You did mention that there is a crisis because the water services boards also had their creditors to see to, and that there is also danger in delivering services and clean water to our residents in South Africa.
I must also say to the hon Mama Sefako that we do not mock our friends who address this House in a second language. The hon Groenewald is Afrikaans-speaking. I’m not mocking you. I therefore do not expect you to mock my colleague.
Furthermore, as far as the petition is concerned, hon Chairperson, I want to make a request and I hope that the Minister will help us to ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Just hold on, hon Van Lingen. Which member from the Free State must I take? [Laughter.]
Ms S M MLAMLELI (Free State): I wanted clarity on which Mama Sefako the hon member is referring to?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Just for expediting this, the hon member who addressed us is the hon Mlamleli, not the hon Sefako, hon Van Lingen. We only have Mr Sefako in the House and his wife is listening.
Ms E C VAN LINGEN: Apologies, hon Chairperson.
I would like to ask you to elevate and escalate the petition from Mount Frere that is on the Order Paper today. It relates to water supply, and I think that is life threatening. I think we must elevate that and not keep it at the bottom. We must not keep it at item number 70 but bring it higher up, above the line as soon as possible, to deliver services.
Hon Chairperson, you must allow me to address the hon Fransman, who does not live in his own backyard. The DA provides chemical toilets on privately owned land ... [Interjections.] ... and you are out of line. So, when the DA took over in 2006, the ANC had only built 14 000 toilets. From 2006 up to now, the DA has built 47 000 full flushing toilets, hon Minister. [Applause.]
Furthermore, the DA had to reconstruct 15 000 toilets that were erected by the ANC. I want to thank my friend from the IFP who brought up the issue of the bucket system. In the Eastern Cape, in Cacadu District, there are 7 000 toilets, of which 3 500 are in Kouga Local Municipality. In Hankey alone, in Stillwell and in Sewende Laan there are over 500 toilets. The municipality staff went on strike because they did not want to deliver that.
I want to ask the Minister: How are we going to address the municipalities who use Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, funds for payment of salaries, because that is the big issue! And there must be consequences. We also need to see those consequences.
When it comes to the porta-pottie issue, it is very important that we look at the households in South Africa that must use pit and bucket toilets. The worst is the Limpopo province that needs to be addressed. The North West and Mpumalanga are at 47%, and the KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape are at 36% according to the Statistics South Africa Census 2011 results.
I want to say to my learned friend from the North West – I must apologise to you, Chairperson – who said that the North West is number one. But, according to the sanitation services summary and the report in 2012, where the Western Cape had 96% of households with adequate facilities, the North West had 1%. [Interjections.] So, maybe the hon member needs an education so that you can bring out the toilets to the people. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please conclude, your time is up. Order, hon members!
Ms E C VAN LINGEN: I just want to say to hon Nel that he quotes the Freedom Charter and the section on human rights in Chapter 2 of the Constitution, which is quite right, but it is the ANC and its municipalities that violate our rights. This year we have had 48 service delivery protests already under the ANC government. Thank you. [Time expired.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I know that the hon members from the North West want to protect the hon Maile because he did say, Bokone Bophirima [the North West], in education, and that is what the North West is saying, hon Van Lingen.
Mr O SEFAKO
Ms E C VAN LINGEN
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Mr O SEFAKO: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, dear friends, our viewers and the media present, it is indeed a great pleasure also for me to participate in the debate on local government, under the theme: Moving with utmost speed to provide water and sanitation to our people, and eliminate the bucket system. Maybe I should also join those that said very well ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, please! Keep the excitement down. Please proceed, hon Sefako!
Mr O SEFAKO: ... ushering wonderful accolades to our Ministers. I also really appreciate it because indeed the inter-collaborative approach by the department, together with the provincial government, to enhance the capacity of the local government will assist in addressing the challenges that the local municipalities are facing.
I also appreciate, having heard in the media while the Minister was addressing the issue of a pipe that runs from Potchefstroom right through to Botswana, that the people of Ngaka Modiri Molema, particularly in Ramotshere Moiloa, are having a very serious challenge of water.
There is no way that we can indeed be speaking of water without making some reflection on socioeconomic development, particularly what we inherited from the previous regimes: the imperialist, the colonialist and the apartheid regimes. The very harsh apartheid has been characterised by the SACP as ``colonialism of a special type’’, because the coloniser and the colonised were staying in the very same country.
To the DA, let me reiterate that Cape Town is not a province. It can look as well developed as it is, but go to the periphery of Cape Town, and you’ll be ashamed. The development that has been inherited by the ANC-led government was characterised ... [Interjections.] I will give you an irrefutable statement that you can hardly deny. South Africa today is better than it was before 1994, if I quote His Excellency, the President of this country.
You can also get a document that was developed in 1993, the Reconstruction and Development Programme which said ``A better life for all’’, not ``a better life for a particular few individuals or a minority’’, claiming that they are staying in a better developed area where the resources were spent in a very skewed manner.
Be it Bloemhof or not Bloemhof, it remains that the historical regime created the problem that today we nearly found ourselves in. But the ANC-led government boldly managed to address it.
Setswana:
Modulasitulo a ke boe gape ke go leboge, ke bua jaana ke re ga go na nnete e ka fetang tiro e e dirilweng ke mokgatlho o wa dikwankwetla e leng ANC. Tshotlego e e neng e fitlhelwa ke bommarona ba tsamaya sekgala se se telele go ya go ga metsi, ba a leseleditse, ba tshwere ka fa le ka fa ba patlapatlile mme gompieno re kua ka dimetara di le kgolo a mabedi tse di fitlhelalang bontsi jwa batho tsa metsi a a phepha. Se, ke setori se sentle se re ka buang ka sona.
Jaanong fa go ka nna le mongwe yo o reng ga gona sepe se sentle se re ka buang ka sona, motho yoo o tlabe a tlhoka nnete. Fa nnete e seyo ba re...
English:
There is bankruptcy in telling the truth.
Setswana:
Ke tse dintsi tse re ka dibuang tse di tlileng ka mokgatlho wa ANC.
English:
The best province, the very best province, a notorious province with porta-potties, is characterised as the best. We are aware of that.
Setswana:
Ba lotlhe ba lo buileng fano, ga gona ope mo go bona yo o nnileng le kganetso kgotsa yo o re kgwetlhileng. Rotlhe re dumelana gore fa re ka tshwaragana, nnete ke gore kgwetlho e e re emeng pele mo dimasepaleng re tla e kgona. E tla nna selo sa maloba.
English:
Having said that, let me say there is a tendency of hooliganism that has emerged from the people, who are characterising themselves as the radicals, who are representing the community. We saw them vandalising and stealing the pipes. They are not from the ANC. The majority of them claim to be the radicals, but they must draw a distinction between being radical and being reckless.
They regard themselves to be the radicals within their communities and also as being at the vanguard of the community by wearing mere red overalls and red berets. This does not make them better radicals. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION
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Mr O J SEFAKO
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Hon Chairperson, once more I express our appreciation of the National Council of Provinces’ request that we should come and engage on these matters. What we need are members who are honourable in terms of respect for the rule of law and the Constitution without being selective as to who the bearer of the good or the bad news is.
Just a few weeks, a few days and a few hours ago, we saw in one province, through another party, that when the Public Protector issued a report, they threatened to take the Public Protector to court. However, when the issues were raised against others, they were the first to say we must respect the Chapter 9 institutions.
We cannot use this hon House to then vilify and demonise another institution because, I think, it smacks of a lack of integrity, a lack of honour and being inconsistent in how you deal with the issues. It is the SA Human Rights Commission that says that it is undignified for people to spent eight days with waste in their house under a scourging sun or even under cold conditions. That is not something that is being raised by anybody, but an institution that has raised that. It was not said that it exists anywhere in the country. Secondly, ...
Mr V E MTILENI: Hon Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: The MEC seems to be ...[Interjections.] Sorry, the Minister seems to be playing hide and seek. I do not know if you will allow me to ask her to be specific.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mtileni, please take your seat. The Minister is responding to the debate as a whole. I have not seen her playing hide and seek, and I have not heard her playing hide and seek. Please continue, Minister.
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Hon Chair, I think that is one of the things that we need to sort out. However, we also need to deal with the realities of separate development and the protection of white supremacy through development.
Urban migration has become an international phenomenon and the reality in our situation in South Africa is that it has happened with unplanned settlements and movement of our people. In some of our own parts of South Africa, there has not even been an appreciation of urban migration and hence there has been a lot of investment in what was, which then promotes white supremacy and domination of one against the other.
In Khayelitsha, in Lwandle, here in the Republic of South Africa, interventions are not the same as we have seen in Amadelakufa in Gauteng, an unplanned urban migration settlement. South Africa belongs to all those who live in it. It might be 1% but we also have to gauge as to what this 1% relates to. We must also look at that percentage on the basis of the demographics because it then becomes 1% of Africans who have been perpetually segregated. I think it was that which prompted us to say we should then develop common norms and standards that will run wall to wall in the Republic of South Africa. Let us make sure that resources, and even compliance, are applied uniformly across the board so that the solutions do not again perpetuate this kind of a challenge that people are grandstanding on.
I have heard colleagues here raising the issues around the lack of political will to eradicate the bucket system. I just want to remind them that it was even the founding father of our democracy, who said in his document: ``Why advocate for water, sanitation and hygiene’’ that sanitation is more important than independence. The Deputy Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs has alluded to this. But this is has been a journey of reconstruction and development. We have not shied away from dealing with it. It cannot also be something that we assume that, now, because we have an ANC-led government, there should have been a miracle that should have happened over 20 years. Remember Orlando in Soweto was designed for only 750 households; the growth of those communities was never planned because it was seen as a reserve for labour and the exploitation of those who come through the migrant labour system. We are settling people permanently in urban areas.
However, remember that it is not surprising that we will have problems in the Free State and in the Eastern Cape, because of separate development through the Bantustan system over time. As far as the issue of redress is concerned, we cannot also begin to assume that out of anger and posturing. We refuse to say that the journey is too long. It is not going to happen overnight, but we will demonstrate our intentions and we will make sure that they are sustainable interventions.
The same applies to what Mr Khawula raised. Remember the challenges in Zululand. I do not think we must generalise There are problems in KwaZulu-Natal, where even the provincial government was stopped. Remember it was first the IFP and then the NFP, and people were deprived of having access to water because of political differences. That is why I am saying that we must depoliticise these issues. I have even told the leader of NFP that now she is a Deputy Minister of this government, we are going to enter there.
This coming Friday, for the first time in thirty years, the villages in Umkhanyakude will have access to water from the Jozini Dam that has been standing there and never been utilised, so that they can have domestic water. Again with regard to redress, on the issue of the dam in Potchefstroom – hon Chair, you have been a Premier in the North West – we are trying to redress the matter.
With regard to our intervention in the Lesotho Highlands and the interventions in Gariep and even Nandoni and De Hoop, this huge water reservoir that we have should be shared with our own people. Let us also redress what it is said to be part of the sunset clause – water ownership in our country. It is an indictment that water ownership is still a reflection of what was prior to 1994. Even for the decision of the sunset clause the sun has risen.
As I take my seat, I really want to urge everybody - all of us who are representing provinces - to partner up, as we work together with local government. Hold us to our intentions. Do not play politics. South Africa belongs to all who live in it. Water is life, sanitation is dignity. Thank you.
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION
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UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I want to take this opportunity to go to a number of outstanding rulings which I promised the House that I would come back to.
I want to start off with a matter which was raised on 24 July by the hon Beyers Smit during the policy debate on Vote 14 - Arts and Culture. The hon member rose on a point of order and asked whether it was parliamentary to imply that ``the DA was behind the third force’’. I indicated that I would peruse the Hansard and revert back to the House.
Hon members, unparliamentary language means different things in different jurisdictions and to different persons and members. In some jurisdictions the list runs to several pages but it would not be helpful for us to adopt such an approach here.
I know that it sometimes strikes members as odd that some words and phrases are deemed unparliamentary while others are permitted as being part of the cut and thrust of the debates. The context in which particular words are used can affect their meaning, making them more or less acceptable to those whom they refer to.
I have acknowledged that at times members will wish to express their views forcefully and to engage in robust debate. That is acceptable. However, that is not acceptable where the tone or the nature of the remarks become so ill-tempered and bad-mannered that they are close to discourtesy and disorder rather than to civil debate representing your constituencies.
Rather than making judgments on the basis of particular words and phrases that have been ruled to be unparliamentary here and elsewhere, I want to make remarks on the context in which the language was used and the nature of the member’s remarks. The guiding principles as to whether the words used in a debate are out of order is the motive attributed to the member accused of using the words and whether something dishonourable is being attributed to another member.
Words or phrases used in a debate, which do not impugn on the honour of the member, will not be ruled out of order. The expressions by the hon Dlamini were directed at the party. As we have ruled before, expressions directed at a party are not unparliamentary as they do not reflect on the integrity of another member. However, I should emphasise the point that if such reference where meant to refer to the members of this House who are associated with a particular political party, such reference would be unparliamentary.
I also want to refresh your memories. Those of us who have been around this country long enough to remember the days of the third force and the massacres will remember that the DA was formed long after the massacres, and that it is true that some components of political bodies which came together to form the DA were at some instances in time aligned or alleged to have been behind the third force. That does not mean that the DA, which was born later, was behind the third force. I am just saying that members should be very careful of how they use the words of the insinuations because, if we do not do so, we actually reflect - and reflect very badly - on members who are free to associate in the new South Africa.
I am cautioning members to be very circumspect because, in the true sense of whether it is parliamentary or not, it would not be unparliamentary but, given the fact that there are members sitting in this House who are members associated with this party which is accused of being third force, I would say that that should not be allowed, and that is unparliamentary. Therefore, hon member, please desist.
I want to move forward, and I am doing this with a little trepidation because the Rule says that you cannot deal with a ruling when the particular member who raised the matter is not in the House. In this instance, I have got two rulings which I must deal with because members raised the points of orders. – One was raised on a point of order, and the other one raised the point of order.
However, I want to deal with the matter of the point of order which was raised by the hon Matebus. This point of order was raised when the hon MEC Majodina of the Eastern Cape province, in her speech, referred to the hon Matebus as ``lawundini’’. [Interjections.] No, no she said ``lawundini’’. I want to say that our immediate reaction, as the House will remember, was to say to the hon. MEC that this would not be permitted. The hon MEC then pointed out that, in fact, she had not used the word ``lawundini’’ in the context in which we had interpreted it. She said that she had used the word ``lawundini’’ in the same context as ``mfondini’’.
We then undertook to do research and to come back to the House on this matter. We have done so. We have done so because the members, yes, have freedom of speech in the House and that freedom of speech is circumscribed by the constitutional provisions but also because the rules of procedure are also very clear on this matter. We undertook to take an exercise and to actually get into the villages in the Eastern Cape province. We did find out, and we have also had to get into the isiXhosa literature to find out whether or not we were not being misled by the hon MEC.
I want to say to the House that this exercise has actually been very instructive to some of us. We have found that, for instance, the hon Majodina was, in actual fact, not misleading the House in saying that, in the rural Eastern Cape you can use it interchangeably. When we looked at the writings of one Ndungana and when we looked at what Majamba also said, one of them said: ``He he, ndiyeva lawundini.’’ In both instances the writers are interpreted as, ``I say so’’ or ``if you say so, mfondini.’’
My ruling, therefore, would be that the word used by the hon member was not meant to offend and, therefore, would not be unparliamentary, but we should be cautious that, for instance, if you use the same word in the North West province, people of the coloured origin would fight very hard because they would feel that they are being denigrated. So we want to caution members to again be cautious about how they use words or phrases which might mean one thing in their own constituencies but mean something very different to other members.
SPEAKING OFF TOPIC
(Ruling)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I want to go back again to points of order which were raised by the hon Elsie Dlamini and the hon Bopape who was on that day a special delegate from Gauteng province. These two hon members raised points and objected to the input which was made by the hon MEC Mbombo of the Western Cape province on the grounds that the hon MEC should have tabled the budget of her department, and should have been debating the Minister’s speech rather than bringing up all the other issues which were about almost all of South Africa.
The hon members would recall that the objection was raised again in Budget Vote 14 - Arts and Culture. It was a very robust debate. The Budget Votes provide the provinces’ permanent and special delegates the opportunity to engage with the Ministers on the budget allocations, and to interrogate what the Ministers are presenting to the House as their plans for the financial year and what they have achieved in the previous financial years.
The participation of the special delegates in the NCOP is critical and important as it ensures that the mandate of the NCOP is realised: To make sure that provincial interest is taken into account at the national sphere of government. It was during this debate that the hon MEC made the remarks which infuriated us.
The provinces have the prerogative to delegate any member to attend the plenaries of the NCOP as special delegates. Such members may range from members of the executive to members of the provincial legislatures. Therefore, their inputs into our debates will always be determined by what they want to bring to the House and to that debate. It would be very difficult for the NCOP to prescribe to these members what to say and what not to say.
As presiding officers we are also reluctant to say to members who are public representatives what should go into their speeches and what should not go into their speeches. We want to deal with issues, for instance, when a special delegate is in breach of Council Rules, is repetitive, is irrelevant, is anticipatory in matters which are under discussion. It is difficult for us, therefore, to say a member from a particular province has no right to reflect on any other matter which comes from any other province or any other locality. Therefore, in my opinion, the MEC from the Western Cape province, the hon Mbombo was within her prerogative to debate in the House.
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The last ruling I wish to make is in relation to a point of order that was raised by the hon Mokoena. I want to use Rule 2 to suspend the Rule that says I cannot continue with this ruling in the absence of the member who raised the point of order because I want to dispense with this ruling.
The hon member rose on the point of order and asked whether it was parliamentary for the hon Elsie Dlamini to refer to another member as a ``waste’’. I then indicated that I would like to take time and peruse the Hansard since I did not hear what the hon Dlamini had said at that time. I have since taken time to peruse the Hansard, the Unrevised Hansard, where the hon Dlamini made the following statement: ``When it comes to hon member Mokoena, I am wondering why you are here, because you are really doing very well out there, acting. And you were protected by the Chairperson when I asked about this issue. But I must say that, hon Minister’’ - referring to the Minister of Arts and Culture - ``you have a very good artist here. His talents are being wasted, sitting here talking with us instead of performing out there’’. That is the Unrevised Hansard.
Hon members would remember that, during that sitting, I emphasised that it would be unparliamentary to refer to a member as a ``waste’’, but it would not be unparliamentary to refer to wasted talent. Having looked at this Unrevised Hansard, having found no reference by the hon Elsie Dlamini to the hon member Mokoena as a ``waste’’, I think that my ruling is that the hon Elsie Dlamini was not unparliamentary and therefore that this point of order cannot be upheld.
I wish to thank you for a very robust debate and thank the Minister and the Deputy Ministers for their presence as well as MECs and delegates from the provinces. This concludes the business of today.
The Council adjourned at 17:46.
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