Hansard: NA: The downgrade of South Africa’s credit rating, the negative outlook assigned by Fitch and the first quarter contraction in South Africa’s gross domestic product
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 26 Aug 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 26 August 2014 Take: 1
TUESDAY, 26 AUGUST 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 14:06.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The SPEAKER/Announcement
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START OF DAY
DISRUPTION OF PROCEEDINGS BY EFF ON 21 AUGUIST 2014 TO BE INVESTIGATED
(Announcement)
The SPEAKER: Hon members, on Thursday, 21 August 2014, during Questions to the President in the National Assembly, an incident involving members of the EFF led to the disruption of proceedings to the extent that the House had to be adjourned in terms of Rule 56 and the National Assembly was prevented from finalising its scheduled business for that day.
I have to inform the House that the matter is being referred to the Powers and Privileges Committee in terms of Rule 194, the committee to investigate whether the conduct of the members of the EFF constitutes contempt of Parliament in terms of the Powers, Privileges and Immunities of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, No 4 of 2004.
The committee is requested to deal with this as a matter of urgency, with due regard to the Rules of the National Assembly and the Schedule to the Rules, and to submit a report on its findings and recommendations in terms of Rule 194(2)(b) at the earliest opportunity.
Hon members, while the Powers and Privileges Committee is considering the matter, I also wish to inform the House that I am considering the implementation of Item 10 of the Schedule to the Rules, which makes provision for the suspension of members where the allegations against them are of a very serious nature. To this end, I am affording the members concerned an opportunity to give reasons in writing why they should not be suspended. This is in terms of Item 11 of the Schedule.
The House will be kept informed of developments in this regard.
NOTICES OF MOTION/Ms M A SCHEEPERS
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The SPEAKER
NOTICES OF MOTION
Ms M A SCHEEPERS: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates an integrated approach to addressing substance and alcohol abuse.
[Applause.]
Mr J H STEENHUISEN
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Ms M A SCHEEPERS
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House-
- requests the Rules Committee to review the effectiveness of oral questions to the executive in holding the executive to account;
- reviews the relationship between the executive and Parliament and its impact on democratic functioning;
- makes recommendations on how to improve oral questions to the executive so that-
- Parliament can fulfill its constitutional obligations fully and with democratic integrity;
- Parliament addresses the root cause of the disruption of 21 August 2014; and
- reports back to the House on this matter by 30 September 2014.
Mr D J MAYNIER
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
Mr D J MAYNIER: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House-
- notes the tragic death of 15 SA National Defence Force soldiers as a result of the conflict in the Central African Republic in March 2013;
- establishes an ad hoc committee to-
- inquire into the circumstances surrounding the deployment of the SA National Defence Force in the Central African Republic and the details of their engagement in the armed conflict in that country in 2013;
- propose measures, in view of the National Assembly’s oversight function, that could prevent similar incidents from occurring in future deployments;
- that the committee consists of 11 members, as follows: ANC 6, DA 3, EFF 1 and other parties 1; and
- exercise the powers in Rule 138, as it may deem necessary for the performance of its task; and
- reports to the National Assembly on 31 October 2014.
[Applause.]
Mr G A GARDEE
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Mr D J MAYNIER
Mr G A GARDEE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House-
- notes that on 17 April 2014, the EFF and other opposition parties lodged a complaint with the Electoral Court;
- further notes that the complaint ultimately resulted in the Electoral Court judgment issued on 18 June 2014;
- recognises that the court is of the view that the misconduct of the respondent has been established on balance of probabilities, and having regard for the provisions of section 7...
[Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: On a point of order, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Yes, is it a point of order? Yes, hon Chief Whip.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: This is not supposed to be a motion and the member is out of order.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, this matter is going to be handled in a different way, as you know, as Parliament deals with issues of the structures that we form.
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, with notices of motion it’s a matter of either you make a statement for subject for discussion or you put a draft resolution that does not need the agreement of the House. So, we are putting a notice of motion in the form of a draft resolution. If that is the case ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: In the form of the notice of motion ... We are saying you should deal with it differently. We are not objecting to the matter itself, but we are just saying that you should deal with it differently.
Mr N M KHUBISA
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Mr G A GARDEE/The SPEAKER
Mr N M KHUBISA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the House –
- conveys its condolences to the wife, children and family members of the late Prof A C Nkabinde, the first black rector of the University of Zululand;
- notes that Professor Nkabinde was a dedicated strategies intellectual and astute administrator who made an indelible mark, and a long-lasting contribution to higher education and training.
further notes that under the leadership of Professor Charles Nkabinde the University of Zululand produced a lot of leaders who occupy various positions in politics, business, and civil society.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
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Mr N M KUBISHA
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Speaker, I was standing up to object to that motion, because I think it was put at the wrong time. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: It is a Member’s Statement.
Mr T R J E RAMOKHOASE
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Mr A M MPONTSHANE
Mr T R J E RAMOKHOASE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates expanding access to food production schemes in rural areas.
Thank you.
Dr P MAESELA
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Mr T R J E RAMOKHOASE
Dr P MAESELA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates countering the rise in and prevalence of chronic diseases like hypertension and diabetes.
[Applause.]
Ms D CARTER
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Dr P MAESELA
Ms D CARTER: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Cope:
That the House debates the reality that thousands of FET students are being blocked from furthering their education or finding jobs because they have not received their matric certificates dating as far back as 2009.
Ms N P SONTI
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Ms D CARTER
Ms N P SONTI: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House discusses the quality of housing and sanitation in black residential areas.
Mr A M FIGLAN
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Ms N P SONTI
Mr A M FIGLAN: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the unlawful invasion of land in the Western Cape by representatives of the Ses'Khona People's Rights Movement.
Mr A M MATLHOKO
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Mr A M FIGLAN
Mr A M MATLHOKO: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House discusses the provision by the state of quality fee-free education, at least to the poor, up until the first degree.
Mr L MPUMLWANA
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Mr A M MATLHOKO
Mr L K B MPUMLWANA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates deepening South Africa’s integration regionally, continentally and globally.
Mrs A M DREYER
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Mr L K B MPUMLWANA
Mrs A M DREYER: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the high incidence of sexual assault of learners by teachers in South African schools.
Mr M S MABIKA
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Mrs A M DREYER
Mr M S MABIKA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the House debates the issue of educators who are resigning because they fear that they would lose their benefits from next year.
Mr M HLENGWA
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Mr M S MABIKA
Mr M HLENGWA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates how the kidnapping, rape and forced marriage of under-age girls in the guise of ukuthwala could be eradicated in our country.
Mr D L TWALA
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Mr M HLENGWA
Mr D L TWALA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House discusses the role of the security and police in the business of Parliament and legislatures.
Mr N M KHUBISA
Mr D L TWALA
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Mr N M KHUBISA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the House debates the issue of poor water provision, especially in KwaZulu-Natal, where we have seen a number of protests and blocking of roads.
Mr E K SIWELA
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Mr N M KHUBISA
Mr E K SIWELA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the creation of programmes for students, both at school and university level, that will help them to understand the past and forge a new national identity for the country.
Mr G A GARDEE
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Mr E K SIWELA
Mr G A GARDEE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House-
- notes that on 16 August 2012, 34 mineworkers at Marikana were killed by the police;
- further notes that the workers held a second anniversary commemoration on 16 August 2014 at Marikana;
- agrees that the mineworkers were demanding R12,500 per month in salary;
- acknowledges that across the country mineworkers live and work under appalling conditions for a meagre income in the mines and minerals industry;
- further acknowledges that the mining and minerals sector has not fully complied with all provisions of the Mining Charter agreed to by all stakeholders;
- agrees to set up a parliamentary commission of inquiry on remuneration and conditions of service of mineworkers in South Africa; and
- further agrees that the commission shall perform all such duties and have all such powers that will be conferred to it by the House once established.
An HON MEMBER: Hear, hear!
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
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Mr G A GARDEE
DR ALBERT VAN JAARSVELD APPOINTED AS NEW VICE CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY OF KWAZULU-NATAL
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes the recent appointment of Dr Albert van Jaarsveld, the current chief executive officer of the National Research Foundation, as the new Vice Chancellor of the University of KwaZulu-Natal;
(2) further notes that Dr van Jaarsveld will occupy his new position from 1 February 2015, and he will be taking over from Prof Malegapuru Makgoba, whose term ends on 31 December this year;
(3) acknowledges that Dr van Jaarsveld has a wealth of experience in academia and higher education in general, having served in different capacities within the sector;
(4) further acknowledges the role that was played by his predecessor, Prof Makgoba, and wishes him well in his future endeavours; and
- congratulates Dr van Jaarsveld on his new position and wishes him well in his tenure.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, that was a noncontroversial motion without notice and I hope the House agrees to congratulate our fellow countryman who has assumed higher office.
Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY/SPEAKER
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RESUMPTION OF PROCEEDINGS ON RENTAL HOUSING AMENDMENT BILL
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:
That the House resumes proceedings on the Rental Housing Amendment Bill from the stage it reached on the last sitting day of the sixth session of the Fourth Parliament.
Agreed to.
Mrs M R M MOTHAPO
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
ALLEGED RAPE OF CIVILIAN AT PALM RIDGE MAGISTRATES COURT
(Member’s Statement)
Ms M R MOTHAPO (ANC): Hon Speaker, the ANC strongly condemns the alleged rape of a female member of the public by the Clerk of the Small Claims Court in his office at the Palm Ridge Magistrates Court. That such a despicable act could be carried out within the walls of an institution of justice and during Women’s Month is outrageous and deeply disconcerting.
We are aware of the presumption of one being innocent until proven guilty, but it is really disturbing that officials who are expected to serve members of the public and enforce the law are facing such serious charges, especially relating to an act committed during working hours within the precincts of a justice institution.
We welcome the move by the department, which has already served the offender with a letter of suspension and are pleased that disciplinary action will follow and the law will take its course. We are heartened that the complainant is receiving counseling, and the necessary support from the department. We are of the view that this is an isolated incident that does not reflect the general conduct of our court officials. Thank you.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION (DA)
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Ms M R MOTHAPO (ANC)
DA DISMAYED BY ANC ATTACKS ON PUBLIC PROTECTOR
(Member’s Statement)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION (DA): Hon Speaker, the DA is horrified by the baseless public attacks launched by the ANC against our Public Protector, Adv Thuli Madonsela. The ANC is showing no respect for the Constitution by failing to abide by the constitutional imperative that the work of the Public Protector be completed without fear, favour or prejudice in terms of section 181(2) of the Constitution.
It is the most alarming trend that members and leadership of the ANC have taken to attacking and undermining constitutional bodies and processes when their findings go against the ANC in any of its forums. Chapter 9 institutions like that of the Public Protector are independent. A review by a court of law is the only constitutional means for disagreeing with the work of such institutions.
In the matter of the Public Protector’s “Secure in Comfort” report and a letter to the President, dated 21 August, it is factually correct that the President has to date not responded to the remedial action steps in the Public Protector’s report. For this reason, the letter of the Public Protector to the President cannot be said to interfere with the processes of Parliament but has in fact aided and assisted the work of Parliament and its Nkandla ad hoc committee to hold the President to account.
It is clear that the ANC is currently drowning in a sea of accusations and findings against President Zuma and that they have become so desperate that they will do anything to prevent him from being held accountable. The DA will not allow this to go unchecked. [Applause.]
Ms H O MAXON
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
FORMER CHIEF OF STATE PROTOCOL OF GUPTAGATE SCANDAL TO GET DIPLOMATIC POST ABROAD
(Member’s Statement)
Ms H O MAXON (EFF): Hon Speaker, the latest report that the former Chief of State Protocol: International Relations, Mr Bruce Kholwane, is in line to get a lucrative diplomatic job overseas has confirmed what we have always suspected. This official was charged and fired for the Gupta landing of an aircraft in Waterkloof.
It is not surprising that he is now being rewarded for agreeing to be the sacrificial lamb for covering for his political bosses. We have always smelled a rat in this case. It is now clear that a behind-the-scenes deal was arranged in exchange for a top diplomatic job abroad. Wherever he is, he should be smiling, because the deal is finally paying off.
The Guptagate Scandal to date remains a mystery and unresolved. That is, at least if you take it at face value. There is one thing we know, and that is that it is very difficult to suppress the truth. The fact of the matter is that President Jacob Zuma is a friend of the Guptas - this is public knowledge. We are convinced that political influence was used to allow the Guptas to land their aircraft at Waterkloof. This was a serious breach of state security.
The ANC continues to undermine our intelligence. They think that South Africans cannot think and they can just do as they wish and get away with it. President Jacob Zuma’s Presidency has always been involved in scandals one way or the other. The ANC has always deemed it fit to dismiss all these scandals to protect the image of one man - even if it means risking the reputation of their party with the South African and electorate abroad.
We want to warn the ANC that they cannot do this forever. They are testing our people’s patience. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S LUZIPO
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Ms H O MAXON
PUBLIC PROTECTOR’S INVESTIGATION INTO SECURITY UPGRADE AT PRESIDENT’S RESIDENCE QUESTIONED
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S LUZIPO: As the ANC in caucus did, we wish to raise the issue of the manner in which the Public Protector continues to carry her duties and responsibilities without due recognition of and respect for the separation of powers. The recent correspondence, in which she wrote to the President requesting clarity from the President regarding the investigation into the security upgrade at hi*s private residence shows clearly that there is indeed conduct that seeks to undermine this institution and seeks to interfere with Parliament’s own processes and business.
Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order: I would like to refer you to section 181(4) of the Constitution, which clearly indicates that no person or organ of state may interfere with the functioning of these institutions - and the Public Protector is one of them. Parliament should not give any attention to a statement like this and I will suggest that it is out of order. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Hon member, in terms of how Parliament must deal with the structures concerned, as the hon Mulder points out, we should deal with it differently, because we appoint them.
Mr M A MNCWANGO (IFP)
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Mr S LUZIPO
INFLUENCE OF GUPTA FAMILY ON LEADERS OF SOUTH AFRICA
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M A MNCWANGO (IFP): Hon Speaker, it seems the Gupta family’s ambitions know no bounds. Not only are they closely linked with the President and the ruling party, but they have now acquired diplomatic passports in Lesotho, presumably because it could not be managed in our country.
According to the Prime Minister of Lesotho the Guptas are “good friends of the President of the Republic of South Africa and the ruling party, and that is endorsement enough”. The fact that the introductions were done on such a personal level shows how influential this family is over our leaders. This whole situation comes at a time when the Lesotho government is experiencing a fragile political situation and the Prime Minister seems to have taken advantage of that to give diplomatic status to the Guptas. Even opposition parties in his own government know that associating with this family is a sign that the country’s leadership has been infiltrated by their influence.
If our government was more decisive, the Gupta family would have been put in their place long time ago. Instead their newspaper is awarded lucrative government contracts while they are allowed to land at a national key point without consequences. Even the man blamed for allowing the landing was demoted one moment and then promoted to an ambassador66ial post the next. [Interjections.]
The influence that our government has allowed this family to have over our leaders is disgraceful indeed. I thank you. [Applause.]
Adv A D ALBERTS
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Mr M A MNCWANGO (IFP)
FF PLUS TO TAKE ACTION AGAINST TRANSNET IN PENSION FUND DISPUTE
(Member’s Statement)
Afrikaans:
Adv A D ALBERTS (VF Plus): Speaker, die VF Plus neem daarvan kennis dat Transnet en die trustees van die twee pensioenfondse besluit het om teen die klasaksie-hofbevel toegestaan deur die Noord-Gautengse Hooggeregshof te appelleer.
Die VF Plus neem ook kennis dat die hoofuitvoerende beampte van Transnet, mnr Brian Molefe, aan ’n senior joernalis gesê het dat die pensioenarisse begunstigdes van apartheid is wat op geen vergoeding aanspraak kan maak nie. Verder het hy ook gesê dat as hulle die revolusie in die strate verder wil voer, moet hulle net sê – wat natuurlik ’n dreigement is teenoor onskuldige oumense.
Gegewe hierdie hardkoppigheid van Transnet en die begeerte om revolusie aan te voer teen onskuldige pensioenarisse, waarvan bykans die helfte swart-, bruin- en Indiërmense is, het die VF Plus geen keuse om as om die volgende drastiese stappe te doen nie. Die VF Plus gaan die klasaksie-hofuitspraak aan al Transnet se bestaande krediteure, kapitaaluitbreiding, diensverskaffers, en die groot kredietgraderingsagentskappe stuur vir kennisname ten einde te verseker Transnet kom sy verpligtinge na teenoor die pensioenfondse en die pensionarisse, soos vervat in artikel 51(1)(d) van die Wet op Openbare Finansiële Bestuur, wet 1 van 1999.
Transnet moet besef dat dit ’n kredietgradering in die gesig staar weens die stroping van die bates van die pensioenfondse en die diefstal van die geld van onskuldige pensionarisse. Transnet gaan ’n prys daarvoor betaal. Daarvoor sal die VF Plus sorg. Baie dankie.
Mr X MABASA (ANC)
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Adv A D ALBERTS (VF Plus)
POSITIVE EXPERIENCE OF SOUTH AFRICAN STUDENTS STUDYING MEDICINE IN CUBA
(Member’s Statement)
English:
Mr X MABASA (ANC): Speaker, 24-year-old second-year medical student Khomisani Makhetha, who is studying at the Latin American School of Medicine in Havana, Cuba, has confirmed what the ANC has been saying all along – that the experience of studying in Cuba can never be replaced and is an opportunity of a lifetime.
In a letter addressed to me as the leader in her constituency, Ms Makhetha stated that studying in Cuba has not only changed her outlook on life, but is arming her and her fellow colleagues with life skills that cannot be replaced. She says that Cuba may not be as privileged as other countries, and life may not be as luxurious as they thought, but they are all proud of this life that is filled with books, dancing, music and getting to know different kinds of people from all over the world.
Ms Makhetha confirms that sitting in a classroom where lecturers are all specialised doctors and professionals is something that further emphasises how much has been invested in helping them become the best doctors they can. They are not only learning about medicine, they are also learning about ethics and “solidaridad”, which is the Spanish equivalent of Ubuntu, and many other lessons. Lecturers pay a lot of attention to students and work hard to make sure that they understand as best they can.
In closing her letter, Khomisani says it has been an honour for her to be chosen as part of this programme, and she is very sure that one day they will come back to be part of a movement that will make South Africa a better and healthier country. Indeed, the ANC is proud. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr N T GODI (APC)
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Mr X MABASA (ANC)
REQUEST FOR RESETTLEMENT OF PEOPLE OF BOKAMOSO
(Member’s Statement)
Mr N T GODI (APC): Speaker, the APC wants to raise an issue that had arisen during the debate on Parliament’s Budget Vote, which is the unfair and unjust eviction of the people of Bokamoso in the Maluti a Phofung Municipality in the Free State.
Not only was it bad that they were evicted a few days after the elections on a cold winter’s day on a cold winter’s day, and their belongings trucked away from them, but also because this was despite commitments that they would be resettled. These people have up to now not been resettled. We understand that there is talk of resettlement, but this is only for a few, and the municipality is now saying that they do not know about the rest. This includes people whom the municipality had dumped at the youth centre, where I had reported they were staying without food. Males are sleeping in beds without mattresses.
We are calling upon the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the Department of Human Settlements to assist our people. I wonder whether Parliament, through the Acting Secretary to Parliament, has actually responded to the letter they had sent to Parliament requesting Parliament’s intervention. I thank you.
Mrs V BAM-MUGWANYA (ANC)
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Mr N T GODI (APC)
ANTI-INDIAN SONG BY AMACDE CONDEMNED
(Member’s Statement)
Mrs V BAM-MUGWANYA (ANC): Speaker, the ANC distances itself from a reckless music group called AmaCde - pronounced AmaComrade - based in KwaZulu-Natal that has published an anti-Indian song. The toxic song that has been doing the rounds in the underground music circles is heavily loaded with hatespeech lyrics. This undermines our nation-building project and seeks to reverse the gains of our freedom.
The ANC has worked hard to unite South Africans across racial divides in pursuit of a nonracial society and continues to engage in social cohesion programmes to strengthen national unity. We will not allow the abuse of freedom of expression nor tolerate those who sow seeds of division.
We call on communities to separate these elements and distance themselves from such music that mocks our hard-earned democracy and struggle for national unity. The ANC is committed to South Africa and its Constitution and, as such, we will continue to build a united and democratic South Africa, one able to take its rightful place as a sovereign state in the family of nations. [Applause.]
Mr J VOS (DA)
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Mrs V BAM-MUGWANYA (ANC)
NEW VISA REGULATIONS MAJOR THREAT TO TOURISM
(Member’s Statement)
Mr J VOS (DA): Speaker, the future of the tourism industry faces a major threat with the implementation of the new visa regulations. Studies that have been undertaken show that these regulations will cut Chinese travel to South Africa by 70%, and overseas travel agencies are already diverting clients away from South Africa and have stopped marketing our destination. This is a market that has shown 55% growth in visitor numbers to South Africa since 2009.
The industry has made it clear that Minister Gigaba’s new regulations will kill tourism and, with it, jobs and growth from the industry. The DA will petition Parliament to intervene in this matter before these regulations destroy the country’s tourism sector.
In addition to this, we also submit that the introduction of electronic visas will drastically cut the turnaround time for the issuing of travel documentation, and these visas are, in fact, more secure than existing permits. It is crucial that the Department of Tourism takes heed of our proposal in order to protect the income that tourism generates for South Africa.
The National Development Plan cites tourism as one of the growth pillars of our economy and, according to Statistics SA, tourism employs almost 600 000 South Africans and contributes almost R90 billion to our GDP. That is why most countries are trying to relax requirements for tourist visas, and it seems the ANC has missed this trend completely. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr A M MUDAU (ANC)
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Mr J VOS (DA)
ALLEVIATION OF WATER CHALLENGES IN MORETELE LOCAL MUNICIPALITY
(Member’s Statement)
Mr A M MUDAU (ANC): Speaker, Moretele Local Municipality is one of the five local municipalities found in the Bojanala Platinum District Municipality in the North West province. Water remains a critical challenge in the area.
Therefore, as the ANC, we are conveying a message of gratitude for the effort made by the President towards alleviating water challenges in Ngobe and its surrounding areas and villages. This will go a long way in showing to the municipality and the country as a whole that the President is presiding over a government that cares. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Ms N KHUNOU (ANC)
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Mr A M MUDAU (ANC)
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES’ FEMALE ENTREPRENEUR OF YEAR AWARDS
(Member’s Statement)
Ms N KHUNOU (ANC): Speaker, 2014 marks 15 years since the inception of the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries’ Female Entrepreneur of the Year Awards. The official awards ceremony took place on Friday, 22 August 2014, in Mafikeng under the theme: “Recognising the role of women and their contribution to Africa’s agriculture and food security.” It was a celebration of the achievements of women in this sector during Women’s Month.
The ANC would like to congratulate the 2014-15 overall winner, Ms Ivy Nokwanele Mzamo from the Eastern Cape, on winning this prestigious award. To all the participants, your nomination itself should serve as an honour and encouragement to continue the good work you are doing. In the agriculture sector you have the space and creativity to make a unique contribution to South Africa, and farms in particular.
The ANC led-government is proud of the various initiatives directed towards improving the living conditions of farm workers and in particular of women involved in the agricultural sector. The transformation of this male-dominated sector is not only about broadening participation by women but also about bringing to bear the experiences of female farmers and introducing new ways of conducting business in the sector.
In conclusion, I would like to commend the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, hon Senzeni Zokwana, the sponsors of the event, and the representatives of the sector for working together in this process. The success of the entrepreneurs in the agriculture sector is a victory for all of us. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S M JAFTA (AIC)
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Ms N KHUNOU
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY MUST WORK TOWARDS BETTERMENT OF LIVES OF POOR SOUTH AFRICANS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S M JAFTA (AIC): Hon Speaker, the AIC feels obliged to mention that it is the only party with a unique background in terms of its establishment in this House. Of all parties founded post-1994, the AIC is the only party formed by the ordinary, voiceless, but disciplined citizens of this country, while others were formed by their leaders.
Parliament is expected to take decisions and make laws which directly affect these poor masses on the ground, whom I think are well represented by the leaders here. Therefore, the National Assembly needs to work towards the betterment of the lives of poor citizens of the Republic of South Africa. When doing so, we should not leave them behind.
People must be at the core, or centre, of any discussion and decision that we make. South Africans deserve and expect better services from this House. When one considers the history of this country, we need true leaders whose identity and credentials cannot be faulted, but that can be proved in this House.
IsiXhosa:
Abantu mabazi ukuba ngobani abathatha izigqibo ngabo kungathi emva kweminyaka engama-20 kube kungona kuvela ukuba kukhona abantu ababengaziwa kwalapha ngaphakathi kule Ndlu kodwa benenxaxheba ekwenziweni kweimithetho yelizwe, eminye engabaphathanga kakuhle abantu njenge NjengoMthetho-sihlomelo we-13 woMgaqo-siseko wama-2007. Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE
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Mr S M JAFTA
CONGRATULATIONS TO MR MNTAMBO ON HIS APPOINTMENT AS CHAIRPERSON OF SA TOURISM
(Member’s Statement)
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC welcomes the newly appointed chairperson of SA Tourism, Mr Zwelibanzi Mntambo, and wishes the outgoing chairperson, Mr Frank Kilbourn, well on his new journey.
Mr Zwelibanzi Mntambo has vast experience in the tourism industry, coupled with strategic leadership and management skills. We are positive that he will ensure that SA Tourism achieves its mandate. Tourism is a very important sector in the economy and as we put all our efforts into ensuring that we achieve the goals as set out in the National Development Plan, NDP, we need a capable leader who is innovative and results-driven. We are confident that Mr Mntambo is the right person for the job.
We congratulate Mr Zwelibanzi Mntambo and trust that he will guide the organisation to better serve the industry and ensure that this sector continues to grow. Thank you. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: The DA. Have you run out of ideas? [Interjections.]
Mr R A LEES
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Ms L S MAHUBELA-MASHELE/The SPEAKER
ASSAULT BY SAPS ON PERSON ACCUSED OF PROPAGATING CANNABIS
(Member’s Statement)
IsiZulu:
Mnu R A LEES: Cha, ngimile nje lapha. Sengifikile. [Uhleko.]
USOMLOMO: Kulungile, khuluma-ke, baba.
Mnu R A LEES: Somlomo, ngicela ukuchaza kahle ukuthi igama lami uMazambane wakwa-Lees. Ngisuka eMnambithi mina, ngimele i-DA. [Uhleko.]
English:
Hon Speaker, Miss Bhideni Sithole, who lives in a remote part of Ndaka in KwaZulu-Natal, was falsely accused of propagating insango, otherwise known – for those of you who don’t know what insango is – as cannabis, and was seriously assaulted by members of the SA Police.
The members of the police apparently beat seven months’ pregnant Bhideni so savagely that she ended up in the Church of Scotland Hospital in Tugela Ferry. During her hospitalisation, her triplets – a girl and two boys – died. The loss of these precious children was clearly a direct consequence of the vicious treatment Bhideni received at the hands of the SA Police.
The three tiny graves at the Sithole home bear sad testimony to this barbaric attack. Members of the community believe that the SA Police has become their enemy and have adopted the tactics of the apartheid police. Instead of arresting the guilty police members and making sure that they are charged, the investigating officer has not even visited Bhideni, the victim.
Instead, a police constable was sent to see her. The police have attempted to get documents with unknown contents signed by Bhideni. The community believes that this was an attempt by the police to get the charges against their guilty South African Police colleagues withdrawn.
The DA calls upon the Minister of Police to urgently intervene in order to ensure that the perpetrators of this heinous act are identified and charged to the full extent of the law. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
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Mr R A LEES
ADOPTION OF SIGN LANGUAGE IN SCHOOL CURRICULUM
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Speaker, I would like to thank the hon member for drawing the attention of the House to the adoption of sign language as a language in the curriculum.
This is indeed an important milestone in the history of our system of education. Other milestones that we can indeed celebrate are the fact that our workbooks for literacy and numeracy from Grades 1 to 3 are now available in Braille. We can also celebrate the fact that we are exploring the use of technology to enhance learning for children who have special disabilities, and we declared last year the Year for Inclusive Education.
The challenges in inclusive education abound, but I think we are taking serious, tangible steps in the right direction. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
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REQUEST FOR RESETTLEMENT OF PEOPLE OF BOKAMOSO
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Hon Speaker, this is in response to a statement made by the APC. To the hon member of the APC, we in the ANC are equally concerned about the spate of evictions across the country, especially in the Western Cape ... [Interjections.] ... and the manner in which they are undertaken. I have no knowledge of a letter that might have been sent from your constituency to Parliament about this matter, but if you could help me find it, we can attend to the matter most expeditiously. In every case of eviction, I have been in contact with either the relevant MEC of the province or the premier, and on many occasions have been able to prevail on the municipalities concerned to follow due process as laid out in the Prevention of Illegal Eviction From and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act, Act 19 of 1998, also known as the PIE Act.
I established an inquiry into one of the most widely reported and most inhumane evictions, which occurred in Lwandle. We hope that from its conclusion, we will be able to attend to the root causes of evictions, and the one that happened on such a scale was unacceptable in this particular case.
We want to make sure that at the conclusion of this inquiry, we will be able to take remedial steps, either in policy or in tightening up the laws that deal with evictions. Finally, we remain extremely horrified by the manner in which these evictions occur. Just last week four people were killed in Philippi in this province. It was atrocious! [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
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The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
ALLEGED RAPE OF CIVILIAN AT PALM RIDGE MAGISTRATES COURT
DA DISMAYED BY ANC ATTACKS ON PUBLIC PROTECTOR
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Madam Speaker, we would firstly like to agree with the hon member from the ANC concerning the rape that was committed by an official in KwaZulu-Natal. We believe the action is reprehensible at any time of the year. Thus, we join the member in expressing our horror and call upon our justice system and police force to certainly take strong action against the alleged perpetrator.
Secondly, I wish to assure the hon member from the DA that the ANC fully respects the Constitution of South Africa. [Interjections.] It is the ANC that played the most important role in ensuring that we have the Constitution that we enjoy today in South Africa. Furthermore, unlike the hon member, I of course will not use the opportunity granted by you to stand at the microphone to reflect on the honour of any institution or person. However, I will say that if an institution, or any aspect of the Constitution, begins to be utilised primarily as a political witch-hunt, then certainly in the public domain, where these matters are being raised, we have the right to reply, ridiculous or not. [Applause.]
There is no institution that has the right to make public statements and expect that one will not respond. Our Constitution does not abrogate freedom of expression to particular persons and not to others. So, we cannot hide behind the Constitution to express our hatred of President Zuma, which has been done in this House by parties that have shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, and will continue to shrink. Thank you very much. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
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DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES’ FEMALE ENTREPRENEUR OF YEAR AWARDS
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Hon Speaker, as the Ministry of Small Business Development, we would like to thank hon member Ms N Khunou for raising the issue of the winner Ivy Nokwanele Mzamo from the Eastern Cape. From our department’s side, we would like to say that this is clearly an indication that South Africans are getting up, standing up, and doing things for themselves.
We congratulate Ms Nokwanele Mzamo and we would like to say to all South Africans that today enterprise development and entrepreneurship are the buzzwords. We would also like to request that South Africans who have the capacity and tenacity to stand up and do things for themselves and to follow in the footsteps of Ivy Nokwanele. They must stand up for themselves, because the world is no longer waiting on us, particularly us as black people. The world wants to see us working. She is the epitome of somebody who has stood up to do things for herself. I thank you, Speaker. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
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The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
POSITIVE EXPERIENCE OF SOUTH AFRICAN STUDENTS STUDYING MEDICINE IN CUBA
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Speaker, in response to the hon Mabasa’s statement - thank you very much, Miss Makhetha. Indeed, she is one of many who have benefitted from the South Africa-Cuba training programme. As government, we are determined to send even more students to Cuba and many other countries in our quest to acquire skills that we are currently not producing as a country.
Hon Mabasa, through you, Speaker, we are also taking our long-standing collaboration with Cuba to a higher level by including lecturer and student exchange programmes, as well as research collaboration amongst our higher education institutions. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
ALLEGED RAPE AT PALM RIDGE MAGISTRATES COURT
ANTI-INDIAN SONG BY AMACDE CONDEMNED
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Speaker, firstly, in relation to the rape incident at one of our courts, and in addition to the comments made by Minister Pandor, we just wanted to share the information that the accused is still in police custody and is expected possibly to apply for bail on 28 August. In the same breath, I would also want to encourage members of the community to make their voices heard, because, in terms of bail proceedings, they are entitled to expressing their views regarding the possible granting of bail to accused persons. In this way, the interests of the community are also taken into consideration.
It is really unfortunate that in Women’s Month an incident of this nature happened in our courts, which are supposed to be the refuge to which citizens need to run when their rights are violated. I can just add that on 15 August, we opened the second of a series of specialised Sexual Offences Courts, which are state-of-the-art courts. They have demonstrated efficacy in dealing with sexual offences because of the specialised way in which they deal with this kind of offences.
Secondly, with regard to the comments of a band that propagates racism, we want to indicate that over and above our Constitution committing us as a nation to nonracism and nonsexism, we also as House passed the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act in 2000. This Act, among others, created mechanisms such as the Equality Court and other measures to deal effectively with racism and to outlaw sexism and other forms of discrimination in our society. We encourage those who find themselves at the receiving end of racism to make full use of the remedies and instruments that we have created as this democratic country. I thank you. [Applause.]
SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION/The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
THE DOWNGRADE OF SOUTH AFRICA’S CREDIT RATING, THE NEGATIVE OUTLOOK ASSIGNED BY FITCH, AND THE FIRST QUARTER CONTRACTION IN SOUTH AFRICA’S GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT
(Subject for Discussion)
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, we are having this debate today because the signals from global ratings agencies are that our economy has hit Code Red. I think it hurts every true patriot to admit that South Africa is not working – 7,5 million people cannot find work. Life for the average person is an uphill struggle for daily survival. In fact, this number is climbing, and I think the ANC has lost the plot on real job creation.
HON MEMBERS: Hear! Hear!
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: How did it get to this? How is it that we are in a state of Red Alert? For one thing, our small businesses are being strangled in red tape. Businesses spend eight days a month dealing with burdensome regulations. It wastes money; it wastes time and it kills jobs. Besides red tape, our economy is also being crippled by other reds in our government – the Communist Party and Cosatu.
HON MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! [Applause.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: You see, the President likes to preach the gospel of the National Development Plan, NDP, but the reds in Cabinet undermine it at every turn. Unionists, like Minister Ebrahim Patel, push for discredited leftist ideas like wage caps. [Interjections.] In fact, the Red Communists, like Minister Rob Davies, want to control the value of the rand with devaluation, even though the NDP strongly advocates against it. Cosatu and the SACP blocked the youth wage subsidy for three years and today we have a watered-down version which has done very little to create jobs. Our young people are still battling to find work.
And then, obviously, there are the red berets in this House. They propose policies that will destroy our economic prospects within one generation – policies that have failed ... [Interjections.]
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker ...
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: ... wherever they have been implemented ... [Interjections.]
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, on a point of order: The hon member speaking there speaks of red berets in this House. Could you ...
The SPEAKER: No. That’s not a point of order. The issue of a red beret cannot be a point of order. [Interjections.] Please proceed, hon Leader of the Opposition.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Uyabona ke ... [You see...] ... they propose policies that will destroy our economic prospects within one generation – policies that have failed wherever they have been implemented, often consigning whole populations to the backburners of the world economy. Where these outmoded policies have been implemented, they have made their leaders fabulously wealthy, whilst the majority of their people wallow in mass poverty trying to eke out a meagre daily existence. It is, in fact, preaching solidarity with the poor, while, in fact, living in luxury. [Interjections.]
They cannot just tell the President to “pay back the money” when there are two sides of the same coin: Nkandla, on the one side, and On-Point Engineering on the other. It’s the same coin. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Let me ask this question: When On-Point Engineering fleeced the Limpopo government of millions and millions of rands in tender scandals and collapsed bridges, did they pay back the money?
HON MEMBERS: No!
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Last Thursday was the President’s first question time since 6 November 2013. It should have been a red-letter day. Instead, it descended into chaos as an intra-family feud took precedence over substance. [Interjections.] It is true;like father, like son. Uyabona [you see] this thing. [Applause.]
So, the President, in fact, escaped accountability last week. By undermining this institution, the President had the perfect excuse to leave the House and wriggle out of the bonds of parliamentary accountability like a latter-day Houdini. [Interjections.] I think the Speaker played her part by shielding the President from questions so that she completely lost control of this House. Therefore, I will not hesitate to table a motion of no confidence in the Speaker.
This House is descending into chaos. Can the Speaker maintain her role as Chairperson of the ANC and still keep this House in check? [Interjections.] I beg to differ.
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Speaker, on a point of order: We have a theme for the debate, introduced by the party the very member claims to lead in this House ... [Interjections.] ... and he is not speaking to the debate at all. [Interjections.] In fact, I believe that the member is infringing Rule 68, the very Rule we referred to earlier. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Leader of the Opposition, please stick to the topic. We are listening keenly.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Well, if we are not willing to discuss corruption and its role in how we are being downgraded, then I’m not sure what the topic is, because the topic is about corruption. [Applause.] When you have a Parliament that fails, it means our institutions are being weakened. If we want to get back on track, we have to reinvigorate the institutions that hold politicians to account, without fail. [Interjections.] So, we need strong Chapter 9 institutions with teeth to fight back against power. The fact of the matter is that President Zuma has not responded to the Public Protector’s Report on Nkandla.
The SPEAKER: Hon Leader of the Opposition, you are the Leader of the Opposition. You actually ought to be exemplary. When you have issues to raise, raise them in the right forums. [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: This is the place to raise these issues.
The SPEAKER: Hon ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: The speaker on the floor is framing his debate. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: You have to allow members the opportunity to articulate their ideas in this House. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: We have been given a topic here. The Leader of the Opposition is leading the debate. Hon Leader of the Opposition, we are listening.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I reiterate that, in fact, the downgrades have been focused on the subject of corruption, and so, I do believe Parliament plays a very crucial role. What we need is a strong Parliament that will give confidence in the economy; that will ensure that the executive is being held to account, that there is legislative certainty and that Parliament passes laws designed to help and not hinder our prospects. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Order!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, Rule 50 suggests that the presiding officer, after having called attention to the conduct of a member who persists in irrelevant or repetitive arguments ... [Interjections.] ... may direct the member to discontinue. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Please proceed, hon Chief Whip.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I call upon you, hon Speaker, to call the member to order, please. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Leader of the Opposition, I really would like you to finish your speech.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, may I address you?
The SPEAKER: Address me, hon Chief Whip of the Opposition.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: There is some hanky-panky going on here in this House, and we need to deal with it. [Interjections.] What the hon Leader of the Opposition has said, very clearly, is that the subject matter which he is dealing with is very clearly linked to the topic on the Order Paper today. The international ratings agencies say so, the business reports say so, economic data say so. He is speaking on the topic. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Chief Whip of the Opposition, we were here. We did hear what he said. [Interjections.] Please proceed, hon Leader of the Opposition.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: In fact, this House must be strong enough to be able to withstand the governing party’s attempts to weaken Parliament’s oversight role. It should be strong enough to enforce its Rules when opportunists undermine them. In fact, that begins with the Speaker’s commitment ...
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Speaker, I am sorry to interfere: Is the hon Leader of the Opposition prepared to answer a question?
HON MEMBERS: No! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Are you prepared to answer a question, hon Maimane?
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: No.
If we can get some policy coherence in this government, we can dare to dream that every child in this generation will have a job one day. If we dare, we can foresee a future South Africa with a DA national government and 6 million real jobs for South Africans in every province. [Interjections.] [Applause.] If we focus all our energies on policies that grow the economy and create jobs, we can roll back poverty, inequality and unemployment.
Through implementing the NDP, instilling confidence in investors and making South Africa, indeed, truly open for business, we can grow this economy. However, if we do notwe will keep open the doors for policies that will destroy the prospects ...
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Hon Speaker, will the member take a question? [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Are you going to take a question, hon Maimane?
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I won’t, Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Alright. Go on.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: You see, it happens that, when, from a policy space, jobs are created for pals, one ends up with these kinds of situations in this House. [Interjections.]
If we don’t address the issues of policy coherence, making sure that the institutions of this government work, that they are not undermined, South Africa faces a very difficult future for every young child and every young girl in this country. Therefore, we need to make sure that we put policies on the table that open the door for investment to come to South Africa that will improve the prospects of South Africans out there.
This destiny is in our hands. I thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr D D D VAN ROOYEN
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The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
Mr D D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon members of our distinguished House, you know it is interesting and very perturbing to realise that every time when there is something that has to be communicated by the opposition, the wrong platform is utilised. Now the nation is being lied to. [Interjections.]
The Leader of the Opposition is citing the reports of the credit rating agencies, which do not exist. Some of us go to town to prepare for these debates. There is nowhere in Standard and Poor’s or Moody’s where corruption was cited as the key cause of the downgrade. That’s a pure lie. So, don’t come here and take a chance, because you are always seeking negativity even where it is not.
Hon Speaker, I stand here, and proudly so, on behalf of our beloved organisation, the ANC, to challenge and rebut one misplaced and ill-informed notion suggesting that growth and development cannot coexist or even that the two are mutually destructive. This classic neoliberal conceptualisation suggests that growth is a priority that must be preceded development, as sponsored by the people on my left.
Development is viewed as a marginal effort of redistribution to areas of urban or rural poverty. In fact, development is perceived as a deduction of growth. As the ANC, we argue that growth is in and of itself, of course, a basic goal of our developmental state. However, our government should not pursue growth for growth’s sake. It is our sincere submission that far from being mutual antagonists, growth and development in reality mutually reinforce one another. We can’t separate one from the other, hon Maimane. [Interjections.]
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Hon Speaker, I’m rising on a point of order. Rule 47 reads that: No member should be interrupted by the other member. This is what the hon members are doing. [Interjections.] Can you call them to order, hon Speaker? Thank you. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Proceed, hon member!
Mr D D A VAN ROOYEN: Speaker, the key to the ANC’s approach is the government’s infrastructural programmes that provide access to modern, effective services like electricity, water, telecommunications, transport, health, education, science and technology services and training for all our people.
These programmes both meet the basic needs and open up previously suppressed economic and human potential in urban and rural areas. In turn, these then increase output in all sectors of the economy and, by modernising our infrastructure and human resource development, export capacity will be enhanced as a corollary. This approach is underpinned by our tried and tested countercyclical financial stance which, inter alia, allowed us to withstand the 2008 global financial crisis.
Hon Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition should listen to this. On Friday, 13 June 2014, when Standard and Poor’s downgraded South Africa’s foreign credit rating by a notch to triple B negative, Standard and Poor’s justified its decision by stating the following: That the fiscal deficit is ever increasing at a rate that is unsustainable. To respond positively to this perceived weakness in manner that would satisfy Standard and Poor’s, it states that the government would have to desist from borrowing funds in order to develop capital goods and focus on paying back what is currently owed. We disagree. In essence, what is demanded by Standard and Poor’s is that we should have a balanced balance sheet and ignore the mandate that our people have given the ANC to improve the quality of their lives; that what counts is repaying of the debt above anything else. We can’t agree with this. Classically, this is how they have dealt with African countries.
Also, one of the reasons they have stated is that the guarantees to Eskom and the other state-owned enterprises has exceeded the original targets. Standard and Poor’s does not consider the fact that South Africa needs to have a secure energy supply and that the funds which were lent to Eskom and other SOEs are not being employed to secure consumer goods, but to put in place capital goods for purposes, amongst others, of easing the burden of doing business.
The Leader of the Opposition also went further to say that South Africa has a high labour wage bill that puts pressure on the fiscal stance of government. The reality is that the government has become the biggest employer because the business sector – your friends - is not substantially investing both in the economy and its human resources. [Interjections.] Its contribution to the developmental agenda of the country is seriously lacking. The irony of all of these things is that business cites the rating agencies as justification for this unpatriotic conduct. [Interjections.]
It equally came as no surprise that on 20 August 2014, just recently, Moody’s one-notch cut for local currency deposit ratings for Standard Bank of South Africa, First Rand, Nedbank and ABSA Bank did not only follow African Bank Investment Limited being taken into curatorship, but Moody’s supported its erratic act by saying that the South African Reserve Bank has over and above limited the risk of contagion, showing that it was willing to impose losses on creditors.
The SA capacity to meet the developmental needs of its citizens is rendered weaker. In other words, the downgrading of South Africa and its top banks serves to hobble it from developing new infrastructure and creating decent jobs and sustainable livelihoods.
Hon Speaker, it is trite that credit ratings contribute to determining the country’s cost of borrowing, and influence investment structure and, as a corollary, capital inflows and currency value. However, if there is no attempt at balancing economic efficiency drivers with economic equity imperatives, there could be no change in the quality of life of our people.
The obvious fact is that our infrastructure development project, which seeks to achieve equitable growth, and skills development and transfer can only be vitiated by a plethora of downgrades. Lest we forget, your friends of the credit ratings - the Lehman brothers saga, until close to its collapse - were given excellent ratings of triple A plus by these agencies.
We agree with those who refer to the recent Moody’s rating as “junk”. Therefore, the solution cannot be in how to avoid the economic tactics of the Standards and Poor’s and the Moody’s of this world, who seek to employ pain and reward tactics to control the agenda of the developing states. We are not going to succumb to this. The solution that must be driven by us as the ruling party is how to ensure that the quality of life of our people is not sacrificed on the altar of market liberalism.
Setswana:
Mmusakgotla, ke a leboga. [Thank you, hon Speaker.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU
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Mr D D D VAN ROOYEN
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Deputy Speaker, you know I agree with the sages that say that a drowning man would grasp at straws. I mean, how does one lead a discussion, and then one diverts or even disrupts one’s own topic, the topic that one started, as the member of the DA did here. [Interjections.] I think they were part of the DA, setting the opposition leader up for failure because they are misguided in terms of some of the critical interventions that should be made here.
As the official opposition, we are going to give a proper perspective of this issue of the downgrading [Interjections]. [Applause.] We don’t agree that these rating agencies should be taken seriously, because they fail to diagnose and do not properly understand the global economic crisis. Moody’s, Standard and Poor’s, Fitch – all of them failed dismally to understand the nature of capitalist economic crisis. Capitalism in its very nature is crisis-prone. There will be a time when there will be an over-production of goods and services and under-consumption. But what do they do, they resort to some sort of measure of over-lending money so that the goods and services can continue to be produced and they continue to exist. That is the proper characterisation of a capitalist crisis, but Moody, Fitch and Standard and Poor’s did not diagnose that properly. So, we can’t take them seriously about their characterization of the global economic crisis.
However, this diagnosis does not only characterise Moody and these credit rating agencies. It defines how the South African government and society predominantly misdiagnose the character of the structural deficiencies that characterise our economy.
If I want to pursue industrial development, Ministers of Economic Development and Trade and Industry, there are certain things that you must put in place. As early as 1990, Robert Ward had said that we needed to identify six critical components that have defined the expansion of the late industrialisers, the countries that industrialised and caught up late. What did they do?
Post-world war, there are certain things which they did as interventions. The first thing that they did was to redistribute agricultural land to all the people equitably. [Applause.]The second thing that they did was to control the financial system and subject all private financial systems to industrial capital to say that this is what we should pursue. The third thing that they did was to control the exchange rates and control the prices and the interest rates. The fourth thing that they did was to modulate the impact of foreign competition on their domestic industries. The fifth thing that they did was to promote the acquisition of technology and utilised technology in their expansion. The sixth thing that they did was to target specific industries and sectors that needed to be supported. Now, there are radical misdiagnoses of all these aspects in terms of how we want to make interventions that would expand South Africa industrially.
There are lots of interventions, but monetary policy is still left intact with the Reserved Bank, which independently and on behalf of the mineral energy complex continues to set monetary policy in such a fashion that the inequalities and the economic balances that have defined society for a very long time would be reproduced.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ...
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: The proper control of the financial system and the private financial sector as a whole - there are lots of things that are being done, but there is no control of the private banking set and we will never realise any form of industrial expansion and stabilisation of the economy unless you have dealt with those issues.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, your time has expired.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: These are some of the things that we are dealing with to give proper guidance to the South African Parliament in terms of how we must understand the structural deficiencies of the South African economy. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, please do not outsource the conclusion of your remarks to the Chair. Time yourself so that we could operate better.
Mr M HLENGWA
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Mr N F SHIVAMBU
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, credit rating is one of the tools used to determine whether or not our country is stable enough to accommodate foreign direct investment, which in turn determines how much capital actually comes into the country, and this affects the value of our currency.
The rating agencies Standard and Poor’s and Fitch lack confidence in government’s ability to stabilise the country and do not have much faith in some Cabinet members appointed by the President due to their disappointing track records.
A defensive and emotive response to these downgrades does not help. They should instead be matched by sober, decisive and measured leadership by government. These downgrades present us with the unique opportunity to be comprehensively introspective about our situation. As an emerging global economic player, we must be thick-skinned to the pressures and standards of the global arena.
What we must remember, of course, is that these agencies are expressing their economic views and what they say should not be seen as the alpha and omega of South Africa’s progress. We can only play our part in correcting any negative perceptions that they may have about us, which must include implementing corrective action when necessary or clarifying the actual state of our country’s economy if we deem the agencies to be wrong; not to complain, not to cry foul, but to actually man up.
The rating agencies can be used as yardsticks, or measures of how foreign direct investment can be attracted to South Africa. We also need to see a practical implementation of the National Development Plan, NDP, because whilst there are disagreements on certain aspects of the NDP, it is generally accepted as a tool we can use to accelerate economic growth, create jobs and alleviate poverty.
Government cannot afford to be double-minded on this issue, as happened with nationalisation. There were so many conflicting utterances by government that it was not clear whether nationalisation was something that government wanted or not or was just spoken about to appease the alliance partners. We cannot afford to have our government so indecisive again. We cannot restore investor confidence if we are not even confident in the abilities of our own government.
Our government must inspire confidence and muster the political will to actually get things done. The economy needs certainty and decisive leadership that does not buckle under the whims of the tripartite alliance; at a sneeze by Cosatu, we all catch the flu. Sanity must prevail and stability must be restored.
Strike action must be avoided as much as possible. The platinum action, which lasted over five months, not only affected the mining industry, but spilled over into the manufacturing and retail sectors, and the consequences are still felt today.
In conclusion, after all is said and done, what is needed is a government that actually has the political will to get things done and respond positively to the downgrades that we have seen. That leadership must begin from the top of our government and the indecisiveness must come to an end. I thank you.
Mr N M KHUBISA
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Mr M HLENGWA
Mr N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, hon members, the NFP is of the view that there are various reasons for the downgrading of the South African economy by rating agencies. The downgrading should ring alarm bells that caution all of us in the corridors of power, starting from this House, to the executive, the business sector and civil society. Perhaps we need to identify those elements that lead us astray and deter us from staying on the course of economic growth targets that we set ourselves as country. And, of course, if we are going to do that, we have to deal with the issue of governance and administration and good leadership.
As a country, we also need to develop some skilled personnel and place the right people in the right positions. We need to boost investor confidence by showing that we can manage and govern correctly.
We need to produce our own goods and commodities within our own country, and process them within our country before exporting them. We need to mine our own gold, diamond, ore, and platinum, and process them within the country and use our wealth to support our cause first, and then export the already processed product. We need to invest in shipping, transport, energy, telecommunications, agriculture and technology, and deal with bottlenecks in the provision of water.
The escalating energy prices are also a cause for concern. The government has to play a visible role when it comes to levelling the ground on matters of labour relations. The employers should have done the right things to avert the recent saga that left 34 miners dead and many injured at Marikana. The costs to the country as a whole were huge. Our GDP has fallen to 0,6% as mining production fell by 25%. If this kind of scenario is not controlled, without being rather pessimistic, we may be heading for an economic crisis. The country has the task of dealing once and for all with the visible remnants of the apartheid migrant labour system that served to perpetuate poverty and inequality.
Workers in the mining sector have to get decent salaries and housing. At the moment they are living in squalor conditions. Preferences should be given to the right people, the black people and the previously marginalised, when it comes to the issuing of licences. The socioeconomic conditions of mine workers and the people living within the vicinity of the mines must be improved. They need schools, clinics, decent housing, water and sanitation, etc.
It is no secret, hon Deputy Speaker, that Nigeria is now sitting on top and has knocked us off the perch and that we are second to Nigeria when it comes to investor confidence. We have to breed fertile ground, where we encourage small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, to grow.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ...
Mr N M KUBISA: Young professionals must be given entrepreneurial skills and we need to nurture business owned by youth and women. I thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please, practice timing your speeches, hon members. It is easy. Keep it very brief. Hon Nkwankwa, I hope you will time yours better.
Mr N L S KWANKWA
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Mr N M KHUBISA/ The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker ...
IsiXhosa:
... Sekela Mongameli weRiphablikhi yoMzantsi Afrika ...
English:
... and hon members, love them or hate them, international rating agencies have an important role to play in informing investor decisions about the underlying risks of debt instruments in financial markets. The rating agencies have a bearing on our cost of borrowing ...
IsiXhosa:
... njengoko bekutshiwo kuqala.
English:
So, we ignore their advice at our own peril. We agree entirely with the real leader, or the official Leader of the Opposition in setting the scene about what the challenges are that contribute to our downgrading; things like weak leadership, which was highlighted.
IsiXhosa:
... nokuba kufuneka kuphuculwe ulawulo, njalo njalo. Yinyaniso ke kwaye asoze sikwazi ukuyibaleka.
English:
However, rating agencies are not above reproach. They are not infallible. Like the rest of us, they too make mistakes. For proof one has to look no further than the role they played during the 2008 subprime crisis. During this period, they gave favourable pre-crisis ratings to insolvent financial institutions and risky mortgage-backed securities, which contributed to the collapse of the US housing market.
In essence ...
IsiXhosa:
... ndivumelana nawe. [I agree with you.]
English:
... hon Floyd Shivambu, but for different reasons, that these rating agencies “nazo ziyaphazama”. They also make mistakes.
IsiXhosa:
Ziyakwazi. They ...
English:
... misinform us. When they do that they do not want to take responsibility. For example, contrast this lax approach, the one
... abayenze [they followed] in the 2008 subprime crisis with Moody’s decision to punish Capitec Bank for the sins and mistakes of the African Bank, even though the business models of the two businesses are vastly different. Consider as well Moody’s overreaction in downgrading four of our financial banks, when we know that we have one of the healthiest and most sophisticated banking systems in the world. “Ziphinde zibonise ukuba...” [That yet again shows...] that they also make mistakes.
That said, since ...
IsiXhosa:
Sonke siphuma singena kule ngxoxo ...
English:
... we should not shy away from the fact that the demise of the African Bank points to serious challenges facing the unsecured lending market, where some of our financial institutions engage in reckless lending despite the legislative and other mechanisms that we have put in place as a country to curb this problem. This irresponsible behaviour results in a situation where debt servicing takes up a huge chunk of the poor’s disposable income...
IsiXhosa:
... kwaye zizinto ezi ekufanele ukuba sizilungise.
English:
Overall, the downgrading of a country and the economic growth ...
IsiXhosa:
... ekufuneka ikhulile ...
English:
... when we provide proper leadership in the country as whole, how we manage our affairs, and how we manage and distribute resources ...
IsiXhosa:
... ibangela ukuba sibe kanti ...
English:
... we need to look at what the recommendations are, because they always make recommendations, specific and precise, what steps we need to take to improve in order to be able to turn the whole situation around and grow the economy in the right way.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyabulela.
English:
Thank you very much, Speaker.
Adv A D ALBERTS
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Mr N L S KWANKWA
Adv A D ALBERTS: Hon Deputy Speaker, the road to serfdom is paved with bad debt. In our context, one can aptly state that the road to Marikana was paved with bad debt, amongst others. The reality is that we may be facing more Marikanas in future if we do not take drastic action.
The Minister of Finance has now indicated that he will probably downgrade his own growth forecast to 1,8%. This is besides the Fitch sovereign downgrade.
Transnet is also facing a downgrade since it lost the class action application brought by its pensioners. The SA National Roads Agency Limited, Sanral, might soon face another downgrade as road users continue to refuse to pay unconstitutional e-tolls. Downgrades, gloomy outlooks and economic contraction are currently the name of the game. Yet, it does not have to be so. There is a way out. There is still time, but we have to act now.
Afrikaans:
Daar is eksterne faktore wat ‘n groot rol speel om Suid-Afrika se ekonomiese groei en werkskepping te kniehalter, maar daar is ook verskeie interne faktore wat binne ons beheer lê. Suid-Afrika het die geskiedkundige voordeel om uit ander se foute te leer en die beste beleidstukke vanuit die wêreld te neem, met die wete dat dit beproef is en werk. Daardie beleidstukke verg net klein aanpassings vir ons eie omstandighede.
English:
We must take those rules that have worked worldwide and implement them to create a healthy environment that would destroy poverty. Those prescripts can be found in the rules that have laid the foundation for the Industrial Revolution in England:
Firstly, strengthen property rights. The ANC’s policy vacillation creates deep uncertainty and blocks investment. Rather than destroying wealth-creating property, unlock state-owned property for the poor and so democratise wealth; secondly, continue to promote industrialisation via the Industrial Policy Action Plan, Ipap, but create greater tax incentives for new and small businesses inside Special Economic Zones, SEZs; thirdly, use co-operatives to create more community banks that can assist entrepreneurs. Create private-public partnerships with the big banks to do the same. Currently unsecured lending is used mostly for consumer spending and that traps people in a neverending spiral of debt; fourthly, start focusing on training and mentorship with an eye on merit appointments. Focus and fight new forms of economic exclusion; and finally, deepen democracy by devolving more power to communities. Fight new forms of political exclusion.
Afrikaans:
Hierdie reëls, toegepas sonder vooroordeel en korrupsie, kan Suid-Afrika omdraai, maar sonder hierdie basiese reëls kan ons begroot vir ‘n baie donker toekoms. Dankie.
Dr D T GEORGE
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Adv A D ALBERTS
Dr D T GEORGE: Deputy Speaker, earlier today Statistics SA announced that South Africa's economy grew by a paltry 0,6% in the second quarter of this year. Our economy is not growing anywhere near its full potential and contracted by 0,6% in the first quarter. It is clear that we will not even reach 2% economic growth this year. At this rate, the over 7 million unemployed people in our country will not be able to find jobs. ANC corruption, cadre deployment and disregard for the law are at the very core of this crisis.
People are losing faith in our institutions and our economy. The negative outlook on our credit rating and the recent downgrade of our banks by Moody’s are indications that the world is losing faith in our government’s ability to keep South Africa growing.
We must understand the context that we operate in. Three years ago Standard and Poor’s downgraded its credit rating of US government debt. This was an outcome of the global financial crisis that nearly collapsed the global financial system, caused by corporate greed in the banking sector.
It matters how agencies rate the debt issued in an economy. because it signals crucial information to participants, who then react to this information. Moody’s downgraded paper from Standard Bank, Nedbank, Absa and First National Bank, FNB, after the crisis at African Bank and the intervention of the Reserve Bank and the National Treasury to prevent its liquidation. This intervention was appropriate, because nothing happens in isolation, especially in an economy as vulnerable as ours. If African Bank had been left to fold, it would have worsened the already deteriorating confidence in our economy.
Similar to the cause of the subprime crisis, African Bank has operated an extremely risky business model, in offering unsecured loans to vulnerable consumers. The rescue package saw African Bank divided into two banks. The so-called “good bank” will be recapitalised with an injection of R10 billion, which is to be funded by several banks and the Public Investment Corporation, that also invests the money of the Government Employees Pension Fund. The so-called “bad bank” consists of underperforming loans and was purchased by the Reserve Bank for R7 billion. Although the Reserve Bank says that it will pursue payment of these loans, they are unlikely to be repaid.
The other rating agencies did not downgrade, as Moody’s did, because they do not expect contagion from African Bank to spread into the banking sector or the broader economy, but they will remain vigilant. It is clear that the negative sentiment is not specifically about the banks; it is about the state of our economy and it is being driven by concerns over corruption, concern over the undermining of our key institutions and the destructive actions of corrupt leaders in the ANC and now also in the opposition benches. African Bank offered loans to consumers who were simply unable to repay them and have no assets to offer as collateral to offset the bad debt.
In Europe, after the subprime bubble burst, public finance teetered on the brink and this was a stern warning to us that government cannot always borrow its way out of a slowdown, and that the public sector payroll cannot increase indefinitely. Now, at a time when we have low growth and higher inflation, our economy faces the real threat of stagflation. This becomes more difficult to reverse the longer government remains frozen in the headlights, and the longer our institutions are undermined by irresponsible political leaders with narrow interests.
Government needs to ask itself what enabling legislation has been passed over the past five years to stimulate growth. Close analysis will show that government has got in the way of accelerated growth potential. The current visa regulation fiasco reflects a government tilting at windmills instead of taking decisive action. Hundreds of millions are spent in our economy to implement compliance regulations that add minimal value. We do need effective regulation, but these must facilitate and not obstruct. It is possible with sufficient thought.
In my two and a half years’ service in the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, it became abundantly clear that our public financial system is seriously compromised, and that there is no political will to clean up the waste and corruption that leaks over R30 billion each year that could be spent on servicing the most vulnerable members of our society.
Before the crisis that now serves as a convenient government excuse for economic nonperformance, our economy was already on a low-growth trajectory. We missed the economy’s boom and our fragile economy was hammered by mindless calls for nationalisation, that did irreparable damage to our attractiveness as an investment destination. That roadblock on our path to prosperity for all of our people is now personified in Parliament by the EFF and the ANC. We should never forget that this had its genesis in a government that nurtured tenderpreneurial scams that robbed the poorest members of our society.
There is a significant role for government in our economy. It needs to generate sentiment conducive to growth. It can do this by being decisive on economic policy. It can be clear. Thank you very much. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Dr M B KHOZA
|
Dr D T GEORGE
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I want to draw your attention to the fact that Dr Khoza will be making her maiden speech. [Applause.]
Dr M B KHOZA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, fellow South Africans, the negative economic outlook assigned by Fitch subsequent to the downgrading of our financial institutions is indeed bad news for South Africa. Of course, we agree with the opposition that it affects our cost of borrowing and can undermine our agenda to accelerate infrastructure investment.
But what do we as leaders do when confronted with a serious economic challenge? Does it help to levelinsults at the ruling party? I do not think so. Does it help not to focus on the real issues at hand? I do not think so.
I want to submit that it is times like these when the strength, content, substance and foresight of any leadership are tested. It is in times of economic crisis, with threats of worsening economic conditions for the majority of those trapped in poverty, the unemployed citizens; in the threat of losing further jobs, that leaders, as they take economic policy positions and respond to such crises, should not just lament the problem; they should find alternatives.
It is within this context that the ANC has adopted a position that is not alarmist, but a position that is taking this country forward. We have adopted a position that is reflective, a position that is forward-looking and a position that offers an alternative for at the end of the day we have no control over international commodity pricing and international credit rating agencies. Whether we agree with them or not, at the end of the day we do not have the control.
What do we have control over? We have control of our own development financial institutions, which are the Development Bank of South Africa, DBSA, and the Industrial development Corporation. We also have a say in the Brazil, Russia, India China and South Africa, Brics, and of course we have to embrace the establishment of the Brics bank. Those are some of the things that, as members of this House, we must take into account whenever we are tackling a crisis.
Hon members, as an integral part of the African continent, we’ve got leverage in the market opportunities that exist on our continent. It is said that private equity is set to grow rapidly across Africa. Continent-wide demand for capital should increase by about 8% a year between now and 2018. Annual growth could reach 20% in resource-rich Angola and 9 other countries.
About R50 billion in total investment is possible over the next decade; hence the ANC is cognisant of these opportunities. Those who are serving with us in the Finance committee know that we have been supporting all legislative reforms that are going to enable that environment, where we play a role in developing the African continent.
Without infrastructure investment there would be no growth. Without infrastructure development there would be no prosperous Africa; there would be no African century, which we have declared. It is within this context that I have previously attributed the status of political and economic juveniles to the EFF, which I have subsequently thought are best called “economic fighters of freedom”. However, after Maimane, the Leader of the Opposition, has now exposed his inability to comprehend complex economic issues and the complexity of the money market in South Africa. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on, sir?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Some in the nation may disagree with us, but as of last Thursday, we were still hon members, and it is the hon Maimane, the Leader of the Opposition.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, go ahead.
Dr M B KHOZA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I do apologise, hon Maimane. Hon Speaker ... [Interjections.]
Mr G A GARDEE: Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on, hon member?
Mr G A GARDEE: ... can you please rule if hon Lindiwe Mazibuko is correct by saying “hhayi suka!” [Laughter.] Is it parliamentary language? That lady is very disruptive, very chaotic.
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, please take your seats. Yes, hon member, what are you rising on?
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISA AMABHIZINISI AMANCANE: Ungijwayela kabi wena.
USEKELA SOMLOMO: Hawu! Kahleni-bo!
English:
Hon members, please ... [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Hon member ...
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Eh! Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. Do not speak before you are asked to. Take a seat. There is a member on the podium. Please take your seat, hon Shivambu.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But there is a word that must be withdrawn there before I sit down. Please ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member, take your seat.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... and she must withdraw it before I sit down.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat, hon member. Hon member, what are you rising on?
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISA AMABHIZINISI AMANCANE: Kukhona into ebizwa inhlonipho. Ilungu elihloniphekileyo lingibiza ngoLindiwe Mazibuko. Angazi ukuthi ungubaba wami noma uyini yena. Akaphendule ukuthi ungibiza kanjani ngoLindiwe Mazibuko ngoba nginguLindiwe Zulu.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, please desist from doing that. It is incorrect, firstly, to act in an inappropriate manner and when you are requested not to do so and you proceed, you make it difficult for us not to act with you harshly because you are creating disorder in the House.
So, when we plead with you to stop or to sit down, take your seat and do not all speak at the same time when there is a member on the floor. We have no intention not to act, and we will do so. Mind your language and address members respectfully and by their names. Hon member, proceed.
Dr M B KHOZA: Thank you very much hon Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You see.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: She said “ungijwayela kabi”. We are asking that she must withdraw those words, unless they are acceptable, and then we will use it as well.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, you have just defied ... [Interjections.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: If that word is acceptable in terms of parliamentary language, we can use that word as well. I mean, we must be taught in terms of how this thing operates, please.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, I have warned you that you do not speak before you are recognised. If you do this again, we will be forced to ask you to leave the chamber. Proceed, hon member.
Ms H O MAXON: Hon Speaker! Hon Speaker!
Dr M B KHOZA: I am hoping that I am not going to have any more disruptions. [Interjections.] What the heck is going on?
Ms H O MAXON: Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: On what point are you rising?
Ms H O MAXON: Deputy Speaker, Lindiwe Zulu said, “ungijwayela kabi”, and that must be withdrawn. It is unparliamentary, Deputy Speaker, please.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, she is an hon member, okay. I have requested you that you must address each other properly and I have said that to you and to them as well. Okay. You cannot make rulings on behalf of the Chair. You are not allowed to make rulings on behalf of the Chair. Proceed, hon member.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member, what are you rising on?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order. We have language in this House which is unparliamentary and offensive. It has developed over the precedence of rulings. Now if you allow the situation to stand where hon Minister Zulu does not have to withdraw that, then it becomes part of the precedence of the House and it can be used generally in the House.
I think that the better option, with respect, sir, is to ask her to withdraw that so that it does not become the lexicon of this House.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Absolutely, it cannot be accepted as part of the lexicon; it is not in order and is not respectful and I have said so, hon members.
HON MEMBERS: She must withdraw it!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, take your seat. Hon Shivambu, hon Zulu, please take your places.
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: [Inaudible.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Rise, please. No, you cannot be standing, hon members. You are out or order and we have spoken to you about it. If you do that again, I have no doubt about what will happen to you. Hon Zulu, please withdraw the language you used so that the House can proceed.
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Is the expression “ungijwayela kabi” unparliamentary?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. Please do not do that. You cannot say that to members in the House.
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Okay, he must also withdraw calling me Lindiwe Mazibuko. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are debating with the Chair and it is inappropriate.
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: I withdraw ...
IsiZulu:
... kodwa angangibizi ngoLindiwe Mazibuko.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, you are going to get the kind of House you prefer. Be careful of the language you use. Be careful of your attitude, including showing disrespect to the Chair, It is out of order. Hon member, proceed.
Dr M B KHOZA: Hon Speaker, it is my wish that this House is going to engage constructively on such serious issues as this one. It is for this reason therefore that I find it very disappointing that hon the hon Maimane chooses to insult our financial services sector by attributing their downgrade to corruption.
We all know that the downgrading of all banks has been largely flawed in that one bank with a fundamentally flawed financial business model has been applied in a blanket manner to all our banks. That has been accepted by all the financial regulators out there. The ANC is saying that despite all these things that are happening, over which we have no control, we want to express our full confidence in our financial institutions. We have a very stable financial services sector in South Africa and there is no need for anyone to be worried about South Africa.
Greg Mills in his recent book - I am not sure if some of you have seen the book - Why States Recover, has this to say:
Countries can change for the better. But outsiders cannot fix state failures. Insiders are largely as responsible for their recovery as for their decline, since it is local politics, customs and rules that overwhelmingly shape their choices and thus their destiny.
This is indeed a profound and relevant message for us as leaders in South Africa. Today, we have to collectively pull each other up for any weak link amongst us draws us all into the ditch.
Hon Deputy Speaker, I have to say this, as this is the month of August. I am saying this because it is beginning to worry me that this month, which is a month that has largely been dedicated to women and for reflecting on our gains and to review our own strategy as women about how best we are going to be advancing forward, is beginning to be taken over by other unnecessary things that are happening that should not be happening.
The incident on 21 August is really regrettable and I am hoping that, hon Speaker, it is not going to be repeated, because it is these kinds of incidents that confirm to credit rating agencies that South Africa is not a stable environment. [Interjections.] [Applause.] And yet South Africa is indeed a stable environment to invest in.
Politically, in times of a contracting economy and the threat of increasing unemployment figures, the highest political institution must give direction and not allow forces of radical political grand eloquence to divert us back to tyranny and behave in ways that undermine our democracy.
Democracy is not just a political concept, it is an economic concept and therefore we ought to understand that whatever actions we take as political leaders translate into economic consequences. [Applause.]
Hon Deputy Speaker, I know for a fact that when South Africans decide to stand together, they do. We know what happened during the 2010 Fifa World Cup. We stood up together as a country and all of us we were really fellow countrymen and women.
The win of Amabhokobhoko in 1995 is a reminder of how best, if we choose to, we could be a proud, united nation not defined by the misfortunes of our history.
Allow me now, Deputy Speaker, to outline further alternatives that we could consider. You know, there was a debate previously about the universal wage. I know that most of the time we will talk about the universal wage as creating a dependency syndrome, but we have seen how the retail sector has benefited from our social grants, the R120 billion that we are giving to recipients of social grants. We have also seen how even those who were financially excluded have now been financially included. They are now banking and they were previously not banking.
I want to say that we should rather seriously consider the fact that we have a very large number of people that are not even counted in official unemployment statistics because they have stopped seeking employment; they no longer go out there. The universal wage might actually alleviate some of these challenges. During times like these we have to think soberly. [Interjections.]
I also want to say that I do not want to respond to people who howl, because I am not a howler; I am a thinker. [Applause.] South Africa must remember its own strength. We have the National Development Plan and it is this National Development Plan that is calling on us as South Africans to remember the fact that we still owe it to ourselves to bring everybody, as able men and women, back into the economic fold.
We have to start thinking seriously about how best we can put this plan into practice as opposed to just making overarching statements that are sometimes unfounded. Actually, it is the very ANC that has come up with checks and balances infighting corruption. I find it extremely offensive that all the time you will ... [Interjections.]
Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the point of order: What are you rising on?
Mr N S MATIASE: Am I granted the right to speak?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on?
Mr N S MATIASE: On a point of order.
The Deputy Speaker: Yes.
Mr N S MATIASE: The speaker assumes that we are in a workshop of some loose, nongovernmental organisation, an NGO. Can she please limit her speech to parliamentary proceedings? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is not a point of order. Please take your seat. Proceed, hon member.
Dr M B KHOZA: Hon Deputy Speaker, indeed and funnily enough, I really do think that you need a workshop. [Laughter.] You definitely need it. [Applause.]
We have a responsibility to decolonise even your minds because you are still trapped.
Where South Africa is in terms of production assets that we have, we could undoubtedly turn our ailing economy and reclaim our spot as the case study of triumph against all odds, not because of subservience, but because of our innovation and ability to step up when confronted with a crisis. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M G P LEKOTA
Dr M B KHOZA
|
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Deputy Speaker, first of all I think that we have to accept that when the grading institutions do this, they apply the general criteria that they apply to all countries across the world. And we have to accept that the hard realities of our country place us where we are.
Between 2008 and the end of that term of government, our national debt shot up from 27% to 46%. That was more than double. And obviously it made it difficult for us to go out to other countries and other institutions to borrow money. The risk of lending us money is so much greater than it was at the time when the last term started.
Although we did advise and warn regarding the size of the government and of the administration, which Minister Pravin Gordhan also constantly advised on, once the elections had passed, the President increased the size of the executive rather than reduce it. And, of course, the administration remains bloated. So, huge amounts of monies that we borrowed in the last term did not go to investment in order to generate profits and interests; instead it went towards consumption. Now, as things stand, 12% of our country’s GDP is going into financing this debt which we have. Next year we will probably have to go and borrow more money to deal with the interest on the debt. That money will become more expensive than the previous amount of money we had.
So, when they do this grading, they advise the countries of the world, they advise the institutions whether we are a country that is worthy of being given a loan or not. And it’s not helpful when a bank, like the African Bank recently, collapses because reports run all over the world, saying that even their banks are going down now.
It is even worse when the head of state and the ruling party do not appear to obey the Constitution of the country. Because that says to the international community, South Africa is threatening to collapse into anarchy because the President is not complying with the Constitution. In fact, the President is on record again and again as saying that the ANC is above the Constitution of South Africa. [Interjections.] Oh yes, he is! No, he is. [Interjections.] First of all, our President said that ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, you time has expired, sir.
Mr M G P LEKOTA: ... as early as 1996. You can go and look at ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time has expired, sir.
Mr M G P LEKOTA: ... at the statement he made. The President is on record on this question. And if you say that you are threatening democracy ... I really can send you an e-mail on this. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I call the hon Swart. Take your seat, sir.
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr S N SWART
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Mr M G P LEKOTA
Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, real economic growth is expected to slow down to 1,8% this year. And while our GDP growth contracted at an annualised 0,6% in the first quarter, today’s figure shows growth of 0,6% which, although we are not in a recession, shows that the economy is under severe pressure. And production, as we know, is unsurprisingly down in the mining and manufacturing sectors minnly due to the strike action in these sectors.
This very slow economic growth not only inhibits job creation and doesn’t assist with poverty alleviation, but it also puts additional pressure on our fiscal targets, with Sars being hard pressed to meet the tax-collection targets. This, of course, results in ratings agencies such as Moody’s warning of sovereign downgrades as our growth slows and fiscal targets come under pressure.
In June already, Standard and Poor’s lowered our foreign currency rating to one level above junk status, while Fitch ratings assigned a negative outlook. Now the reasons they gave was the five-month strike in the platinum sector, the high trade account deficit and weak demand among its reasons for the decision that, of course, resulted in slow economic growth.
Today’s economic growth is indeed disappointing with the first quarter minus 0,6%, the second quarter plus 0,6%, so we sit at 0% at the moment. There can be no doubt that the country no longer enjoys that fiscal space we had at the onset of the fiscal crisis in 2009. And we in the ACDP have previously expressed concerns about debt sustainability and the debt consolidation path. Debt service costs are rising faster than any other category of spending over the medium term - almost a R114 billion this year. In 1994 our total budget was just over R100 billion and that’s what we will paying for debt service costs this year.
So, as the expenditure targets are already in place according to the Appropriation Bill, Government will have to improve revenue collection and reduce wasteful and irregular expenditure to stay on that path, otherwise we are going to have further difficulties. Whilst we may not agree with the decisions taken by ratings agencies, such as the Moody’s downgrade of our banks, which even other ratings agencies have disagreed with, we need to bear in mind that foreign investors rely on these agencies for investment.
Many institutions cannot invest in countries that have junk status position. We are one level above that and we need to be very conscious of that as we cannot afford another downgrade, and do everything possible to stimulate economic growth in the short term whilst at the same time reducing wasteful and irregular government expenditure. I thank you.
Dr W G JAMES
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Mr S N SWART
Dr W G JAMES: Deputy Speaker, hon members, with the 0,6% GDP growth for the last quarter we will have difficulty achieving 2% for 2014. But let us say we do achieve 2% in GDP growth, what does that mean? This is what it means: That the unskilled worker’s salary of R2 400 per month, the policeman and woman’s salary – these are starting salaries – of R6 416 per month; the nurse’s salary of R9 166 per month and the primary school teacher’s salary of R11 250 will take 35 years to double in terms of the income – 35 years to double.
At 5,6% growth, the highest recorded over the last 20 years of democracy, the income levels, at the sustained level, will take 12 years to double. So, that is what it means – 35 years versus 12 years for ordinary people to see their income levels double. That is what growth means. And that is why growth is so important to get right in our country.
However, I agree with the hon Van Rooyen that growth is a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition and that there has to be a level of redistribution within the economy.
But, let me say that 1,5% to 2% growth, which is a mini-growth, exemplifies President Jacob Zuma’s era. This is what it represents: Five lost years, stagnation and decline. The national government under the ANC had 20 years to get the economic fundamentals right. There were some achievements in both the Reconstruction and Development Plan, RDP, era and the Growth, Employment and Redistribution, Gear, era during those earlier years. But we underinvested in infrastructure in the late 1990s and today sit with an expensive, growth-sapping backlog.
We did not invest in public transport. In the land of apartheid, we should have ... Consider this: Commuters from suburbs spend an estimated 600 million hours stuck in traffic jams. It exacts a heavy price on productive hours lost, pollution, wasted fuel and adverse health effects. The fact that we have this costs our nation 1% of GDP. Instead of investing in mass rapid transport, light rail buses and taxis, as the DA is attempting to do in the City of Cape Town, the ANC government puts money into more roads to support more cars using a punishi -funding model, the widely despised e-tolls.
Instead of following the DA’s proposals to liberalise energy production and distribution, this government protects the Eskom monopoly, which produces 3% less power today compared to four years ago, declares that its toll costs soared from R19,5 billion to R70,5 billion, and has a nerve to ask for a further R15 billion capital injection and the charges you and I and the citizens pay an arm and a leg for.
Instead of taking red tape out of business transactions, as the DA successfully does where it governs, this national government’s frenzy to regulate everything that moves adds more red tape, more paperwork and higher barriers to entry. Instead of getting the fundamentals right in education, as the DA in the Western Cape is getting demonstrably right by putting very good teachers in front of classrooms, with children eager to learn, this national government’s constant fiddling with education without getting the fundamentals right, and this has taken us from bad to worse. If Treasury, in fact, had to run our government, its aspirations of achieving 5% to 6% growth over time means that our income would double in 14 years. But I am afraid Treasury does not run this government; we are not quite sure who does.
As for the hon Shivhambu, let me tell you, I can’t take this person seriously. All the suggestions he makes, wherever they have been tried, have driven away the private sector, demotivated people, destroyed innovation and creativity and entrepreneurship. In fact, what it is, is a recipe for economic destruction. So, I want to say that the EFF is a party without realistic plans. They will say and do anything to get votes, knowing full well that they cannot deliver on their promises. That is why the DA is the only party that can be trusted to deliver change through clean, corruption-free government. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms E N LOUW: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, what are you rising on, hon member?
Ms E N LOUW: I would like the member to withdraw the statement ... [Interjections.]
IsiXhosa:
Ms E N LOUW: ... “khanithule nimamele, bantu!”
English:
I would like the member to withdraw his statement. On what basis did he find the EFF’s plans to be unrealistic?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please read your Rule book. Hon Carrim, go ahead.
Mr Y I CARRIM
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Dr W G JAMES/The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr Y I CARRIM: Deputy Speaker, Deputy President, comrades and friends, I think the DA really owes us an apology for this non-debate. Actually it is not a non-debate, it is a no-debate. It is not clear at all why the issue was put on the agenda. What have we learnt? What has been said that is new or original? It is this obsession with government and President Zuma bashing. There is nothing original that has been said. This is an important topic; it should be on the agenda, but not with the agenda that the DA has, which is purely to bash the government.
Now, let us be very clear. We are not even clear about the DA. The DA is not clear itself. What exactly did the rating agencies say? They made it very clear that they are downgrading South Africa’s outlook. That is what Standard and Poor’s Ratings Services said; not its credit, even though the two are related. It is very clearly true. If you look carefully at Standard and Poor’s ratings services, they do not take into account the consequences for the world - not just South Africa - the slow growth of China, nor indeed the fact that ... [Interjections.] ...
Yes, it is true we have this deficit, but it is used in our country for the counter cyclical measures that we have adopted. Which is why, of course, we have been able to manage the post-2008 global crisis, which was not created by us. Let us stress, our growth rate was hovering at 5% and more, but the greed of the bankers in the developed world, whose values are the values of the DA after all, this untrammelled view that the market should be free is precisely why we do have a challenge. [Interjections.]
On the one hand you were saying don’t over-regulate, especially with regard to the small business sector and so on, but on the other, when we don’t regulate, you say this is what can happen, as happened with the African Bank. So, are you trying to say that we should have a light touch of regulation for the banks, because if you do, these are the consequences you have to face.
What I am saying to you clearly is that ... [Interjections.] ... yes, yes, obviously none of us is happy about the growth rate. It is not in the national interest. It does not matter which party you come from, but it is true that we are not actually in a recession. This very morning it emerged that the growth rate is 0,6%. It is very far from where we would like to be, but at least it is not negative growth.
Where does the growth come from? It comes from agriculture, which is signal, and very important; construction, which implies that the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission is getting going; transport; communication and government. In mining and manufacturing we have performed badly in large part because of the strikes. But, yet again, why were there strikes in the platinum sector? There are many reasons, no doubt, but one major reason is the high levels of inequality, which you as the DA refuse to acknowledge. Actually, excessive pay is given to senior managers, who are mainly your members. They are your beneficiaries. So, come to terms with what exactly the rating agencuies are saying.
Moody’s Investors Service says that South Africa’s rating is Baa1. This, in order words, is a high ability to repay short-term debt. In other words, South Africa is equal to Russia and marginally better than Brazil at Baa2 and India at Baa3. Standard and Poor’s have put us at BBB, which is a rating that we share with Brazil, India and Russia. So, it is not as if it is the end of the world. Yes, we are challenged, but no way near the extent to which the DA is making it out to be.
In fact, a research report by Parliament noted that in its reply the National Treasury was very measured about the original Standard and Poor’s downgrading. It further said that the lowering of the sovereign credit ratings applied to less than 10% of the total debt, which is the foreign denominated debt. The foreign currency denominated debt to be redeemed over the next five years is relatively small, while the country’s foreign currency reserves are more than sufficient - National Treasury noted - to cover the commitments over the medium term.
National Treasury remains confident of the country’s ability to access capital markets to raise foreign currency funding. This is due, the National Treasury noted, to the depth and liquidity of South Africa’s capital market, which has enabled the country to raise funding in spite of adverse conditions.
Of course, it is true it matters what the rating agencies say, but they have performed abysmally too. None of them foresaw the 2008 global financial crisis. In fact, the very banks that they rated as AAA were the banks that collapsed and have led to this worldwide crisis, the consequences of which are being felt currently, not least in our own country. We take them seriously; we have to be decisive; and in essence the elements of action are there.
If the DA and other parties were committed to dealing with what the rating agencies are saying, we will do exactly what is there. We do not have to have rocket science. The elements of the problem are there. We have to implement the National Development Plan, NDP, the New Growth Path, NGP and the Industrial Policy Action Plan, Ipap, more effectively and decisively. We have to ensure more economic growth; deal with having to ensure better labour relations – that is something government is applying its mind to – and implement the Medium-Term Strategic Framework that government had set out two weeks ago.
Look, it is not just for Parliament to hold the executive to account. It is also for us as an organ of popular power to play our role in implementing the Medium-Term Strategic Framework. It does not matter which party you come from. There are some or other elements we must agree with in terms of the Medium-Term Strategic Framework and play your role, do it out.
Certainly, we, as the majority component in this Parliament, will seek to do so. We need to implement the NDP more decisively; and ensure that the PICC moves more decisively and faster. We are dealing with the challenges around energy and we have to have more effective state-owned entities and Development Finance Institutions, DFIs. We are saying, there it is. There is a way forward.
What, in this whole afternoon’s debate, have we heard from the DA? Actually, it is not even true, as you well know, that corruption is the key reason why the rating agencies decided what they decided. It is not even true. You do not seem to understand from the contributions made on behalf of the DA here what the rating agencies say. [Interjections.] So, why this debate at all? Perhaps we should have a rule that ask the question: Why do you want this debate? You should judge as the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker whether the people asking for the motion know what they are talking about. Quite frankly, we have gone nowhere as far as the DA, with its poor offering, is concerned.
Let us look at Moody’s most recent downgrading of the four banks. I mean, really, with the greatest of respect to them, these four major banks operate on completely different business models. Even Capitec bank does that; is much more cautious about whom it lends to and so on. What was the role of the Reserve Bank if not to ensure the stability of the financial systemif not ultimately to ensure that the poor and disadvantaged do not lose out through the challenges that the African Bank has?
The approach of the Reserve Bank to the African Bank was to impose limited losses on bond holders in line with international best practice, and did so in a manner consistent with the financial stability boards’ key attributes of effective resolution regimes. Their approach has been to reduce potential taxpayers’ losses.
The Business day’s Stuart Theobald, who is not a friend to the ANC- it is quite remarkable actually - yesterday said that Moody’s has applied some pretty narrow inductive logic in coming to the conclusion that because it has happened, once where the Reserve Bank intervened, therefore it is more likely to happen again. He is not a friend of the ANC; it is in yesterday’s Business Day. Read it.
Theobald makes an observation that instead of shutting the African Bank down, and winding it up like Saambou Bank in 2002, the Reserve Bank’s plan intends African Bank to continue in a restructured form. He notes that this option has been used around the world increasingly since the financial crisis. The burden on the taxpayer is less and the effect on jobs and customers is mitigated.
If you look at the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, it sets out the key issues in some gabbled way - some of you have picked that up. It talks about developing public infrastructure, which is quite key, energy, agrarian transformation and land reform; improving the ICT platform; investment in research, development and innovation; greater empowerment; and focused support for small business development and co-operatives; addressing the skills constraint; restoring workplace co-operation; consideration of national minimum wage and other measures to reduce labour market inequality – as I referred to earlier – improved access to finance and a new regulatory architecture for the financial sector, BEE, gender equity and youth development management; improving the state’s capacity, which I think is crucial and we all acknowledge this; and maintaining a sustainable and counter-cyclical macro framework; deal with the structural incoherencies in the economy; and deal with monopoly pricing and monopoly value chains.
So, there it is. The challenge is for all of us, in this Parliament, whichever party we come from, to play a role in implementing that, rather than using, once again, this opportunity to repeat the platitudes, as the DA has been doing. Let us work together, despite our differences, instead of using this and hijacking the rating agencies’ downgrading to fulfil narrow and very small minded agendas of the DA. That is why you never seem to grow. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The LEADER OF OPPOSITION
Mr Y I CARRIM
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The LEADER OF OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I opened this debate talking about corruption, the role of Parliament and international confidence. I think every speaker has affirmed that the actions of this government and the decisions of this Parliament about how this economy fits into the world. Instead, the ANC speakers came to say that corruption in South Africa does not bring us down, which I find amazing. None of them said anything about condemning endemic corruption.
I think these negative sentiments about the decisions of this government to this economy today are indisputable. It is a fact. that is why I opened by saying that corruption has no place in south Africa, that in fact under President Zuma, corruption has become endemic; and in fact President Zuma has led us to a place where ratings downgrades are unavoidable. It is a fact. What we must look to is to make sure that Parliament remains strong; must take strong action; that in fact we need Presiding Officers that play by the rules; and must hold the executive to account. Unless we do so, the people of this country will continue to face an increasing level of unemployment.
There is no question about the increased costs of borrowing that will continue to rise; that people with household debt will find it impossible to repay that debt. Government’s borrowing will have to increase further, which is also untenable. The future costs of the actions of this government will be paid for by future generations in the future.
I think I agree more with hon Carrim that in fact the growth in this quarter is not great. In fact, it is terrible. Hon Khoza asked me a question as she was addressing us to say who should care about South Africa’s downgrade? I would like to put that point on the table. It is those who are without work. It is those who are facing increasing levels of poverty; those who are facing tough decisions by this government that has led them to a place of unemployment. That is who should care. [Applause.]
We are building an unhealthy situation, where we are perpetuating the idea that the state must become the biggest employer. It cannot be. Our job is to create an enabling environment where more small businesses can thrive so that more people can find work. We must be a nation of not only employees, but employers. That is the destination.
I am amazed that hon Carrim is suggesting that mine owners are from the DA. Khulubuze Zuma and many others sit on this side of mine owners. So, hon members, the solution to our problems do not really lie in a Contiki Tour to Russia, where in fact they do. The fact of the matter is that the people of this country do not work because the government they have elected does not work. [Applause.] That is what the point of this debate really is and we should work hard to make sure that we have a government that works for the people of this country. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 16:29.
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