Hansard: NCOP: Debate on Vote No 31 — Human Settlements
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 17 Jul 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-54] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 54
THURSDAY, 17 JULY 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
_________
The Council met at 14:00.
The Deputy Chairperson (Mr R J Tau) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Start of Day
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 54
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr E M MLAMBO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council, I shall move:
That the Council –
(1) notes that President Jacob Zuma has recently signed the Restitution of Land Rights Amendment Act into law which reopened the process for a further five-year window period from 01 July 2014, allowing those who have missed the 1998 deadline to file their land restitution claims before June 2019;
(2) also notes that approximately 80 000 restitution claims were lodged by the 1998 deadline, whereof 8 471 have not as yet been settled or resolved;
(3) further notes that approximately 100 new land claims were received since the process was reopened two weeks ago and it is estimated that about 400 000 valid claims can be lodged by the deadline in 2019;
(4) commends the ANC government on this initiative and being proactive in extending the deadline to allow the victims of apartheid ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Is that a point of order?
Mr M KHAWULA: Yes.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): What is your point of order?
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, ... [Inaudible.] ... was made yesterday?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP(Mr R J Tau): I didn't hear that.
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, a motion similar to this one was made yesterday.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP(Mr R J Tau): Is it the same motion that was passed yesterday?
Mr M KHAWULA: Yes, on land.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP(Mr R J Tau): Is that true?
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Chair, it is different because one was a notice of a motion and the other a motion without notice. There are two different resolutions there.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP(Mr R J Tau): Okay. So, yesterday's one was a motion without notice and this is a notice of motion.
Mr M KHAWULA: Thank you, Chair.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP(Mr R J Tau): Just hold on. I want to check whether that motion was accepted yesterday. If the motion was accepted by the House, then it would not be proper for us to receive the same motion, because it was accepted by the House.
Mr E M MLAMBO: I'm not sure, hon Chair.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP(Mr R J Tau): Can we agree that we will check with the records before we even proceed. We will take note of the motion and then we will make a ruling on that motion in the next sitting.
Mr E M MLAMBO: Very well. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr E MAKUE
Mr E M MLAMBO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 54
DIARRHEA OUTBREAK IN CITY OF TSHWANE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr E MAKUE: Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC I hereby move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes the diarrhoea outbreak ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP(Mr R J Tau): Hold on. We are dealing with notices of motion and not motions without notice for now. We will come to motions without notice. Is that a notice or a motion without notice?
Mr E MAKUE: It is a motion without notice. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): No, we will come to that.
Mr D M STOCK
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 54
Mr D STOCK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council, I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes the split tongue of the DA and the contradictory reactions in the DA to the announcement by Premier Makhura of Gauteng to appoint a panel to assess the impact of e-tolling in the province;
(2) also notes that a DA member from Gauteng, Mr Neil Campbell, welcomed the premier's announcement, while the DA parliamentary leader, hon Maimane, in direct contradiction and conflict thereof, described it as a publicity stunt, claiming that the panel has no power to take action against e-tolling;
(3) further notes that these contradictory reactions and statements in and by the DA not only reveal the deep divides in the DA but also demonstrates the DA's lack of basic logic and understanding of certain matters, particularly in as much as the panel is not appointed to serve the agenda of the DA or to take any decisions but solely for the purpose to assess the socioeconomic impact of e-tolling in the province and also to invite proposals and submissions in that regard and on solutions and to advise the provincial government thereon; and
(4) calls on the DA to stop playing cheap politics and rather to contribute constructively in taking South Africa forward and to become part of the solution instead of remaining obstructive and undermining democracy.
MOTIONS_WITHOUT_NOTICE
END OF TAKE
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TAKE 55
TAKE STARTS AT 13:59
Mr D STOCK
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 55
ONGOING CONFLICT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND PALESTINE
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T MOTARA: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with grave concern the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine and, in particular, the air strikes by Israel on the Gaza Strip which have killed hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians and children over the past two weeks with thousands being wounded while humanitarian aid is urgently needed;
(2) also notes that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not just an issue of military occupation and that Palestinians are not struggling for a state but, like the struggle against apartheid in South Africa, Palestinians are struggling for their freedom, liberation and equality;
(3) further notes that just like the apartheid government in South Africa deprived the black majority in South Africa of freedom, liberty and dignity, Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property and perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality;
(4) acknowledge that when South Africa was liberated from apartheid, its icon and Nobel Prize recipient, former President Nelson Mandela, said: "We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians"; and
(5) calls on both Israel and Palestine to cease their military attacks on each other and in particular calls on Israel to cease its occupation of Palestinian land, to end the Israeli apartheid system and to implement the two state solution as adopted by the United Nations.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr E MAKUE
MS T MOTARA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 55
DIARRHOEA OUTBREAK IN HAMMANSKRAAL
(Draft Resolution)
Mr E MAKUE: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes the diarrhoea outbreak recently in Hammanskraal in the City of Tshwane in Gauteng and that a large number of people have since been treated at clinics and health care centres as a result;
(2) also notes with relief that no fatalities have been reported to date and that patients are reacting positively to treatment and are recovering well;
(3) further notes that the City of Tshwane has since conducted tests at all water sources, reservoirs and water network pipelines following suspicion that the outbreak was caused by contaminated water;
(4) acknowledges that the city has also sent further water samples to an independent laboratory for verification and that the results of all these tests ruled out any contamination and indicated that the water quality meets the required standards, suggesting that the outbreak could have been caused by a food-borne disease;
(5) calls on the city's water and health divisions to monitor the situation closely and to test the water quality on a regular basis; and
(6) further calls on communities to check their food and drink sources for possible contamination.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING
MR E MAKUE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 55
RHINO POACHING IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with concern that, since the start of the rhino poaching epidemic in 2008, South Africa – home to 74% of Africa's remaining rhino population – has lost almost 3 000 rhino and the number increases daily as armed foreign nationals make cross-border raids into South Africa in pursuit of that most ridiculous of mythical medicines and other means, the rhino horn;
(2) welcomes the conviction and sentence to 16 years imprisonment for each of two Mozambican poachers in the Nelspruit Regional Court in Mpumalanga recently and trusts that it will serve as a deterrent to other potential poachers and make them think twice before crossing the fence to plunder our natural heritage;
(3) further notes that while diplomatic solutions are being sought and a global commitment and a zero-tolerance approach towards rhino poaching have been obtained, intelligence-driven operations by law enforcement agencies and other role-players is crucial to keeping rhinos alive and to buy them time;
(4) calls on all communities and especially communities living around rhino reserves to be committed and actively involved in intelligence gathering and informant networks in order to track down rhino poachers and to crack rhino poaching syndicates.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution
MS E PRINS
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 55
ROOTING OUT ELECTRICITY THEFT
(Draft Resolution)
Ms E PRINS: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes that Eskom launched a new programme last year aimed at rooting out electricity theft by, amongst others, exposing and arresting criminals who sell electricity illegally and that Eskom has recovered more than R1,8 million in lost revenue during the pilot programme in Limpopo;
(2) also notes that this programme - which will now be rolled out and implemented throughout the country – entails technical meter auditing supported by an on-site investigating team, followed by the laying of appropriate charges and ultimately the prosecution of perpetrators;
(3) further notes that a large number of ghost vending incidents – in which ghost vendors sell electricity illegally – as well as other forms of electricity theft such as illegal connections and meter tampering were uncovered and fines amounting to R3,7 million issued;
(4) commends Eskom on these initiatives; and
(5) calls on all communities to join hands with Eskom in order to not only root out all forms of electricity theft but also to implement all measures possible to save electricity.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MR m KHAWULA
MS E PRINS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 55
ABSENCE OF BAFANA BAFANA FROM 2014 WORLD CUP IN BRAZIL
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the IFP I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1)notes with disappointment the absence of Bafana Bafana in the Soccer World Cup tournament that has just ended in Brazil;
(2)further notes that the failure by Bafana Bafana to qualify for this World Cup did not go down well with the millions of sport-loving patriotic citizens of South Africa;
(3)also notes that the SA Football Association, Safa is on the brink of announcing a new coach for Bafana Bafana, reportedly within the next two days;
(4)urges Safa to ensure that preparations kick off on a high note for South Africa's senior national soccer team to qualify for the next Africa Cup of Nations, Afcon, tournament and the next Fifa World Cup tournament in Russia in 2018.
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.
Mr C F B SMIT
MR M KHAWULA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 55
BRUTAL MURDER OF MR PIET MADIMATJE PALE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C F BEYERS SMIT: Hon Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1)notes the brutal murder on Saturday 28 June 2014 of Mr Piet Madimetja Pale, a well-known and respected anticorruption activist in the Mogalakwena Municipality;
(2)further notes that his murder is suspected to be a political assassination and might put the stability of the municipality at risk;
(3)directs the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs as well as the Select Committee of Finance to:
(a) undertake an oversight visit to Mogalakwena Municipality;
(b) establish the reasons for the instability within the municipality;
(c) report to Council on its recommendations to help stabilise this situation in the municipality; and
(d) compile a detailed report on any incidents of fraud and corruption found in the municipality.
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): In the light of the objection, the motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.
FIRST ORDER / The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
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Mr C F B SMIT / MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 56
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): I welcome our brand new, or rather, returning Minister to the portfolio, along with her Deputy. I call on the Minister to introduce the debate. [Applause.]
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 31 - Human Settlements:
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Deputy Chairperson, it is always my pleasure to find you in the Chair whenever I'm in the NCOP. [Laughter.]
Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon members, invited guests in the gallery, ladies and gentlemen, please accept my and my department's sincerest condolences on the loss of an outstanding revolutionary who served in this House. I would like to imagine that the former Chief Whip of the Majority Party, Nosipho Ntwanambi, is listening to us, because she was part of what inspired us in all the work that we did in the Western Cape. As we move forward, we will do our work in such a way that we honour her, and she will know that she is in our thoughts. Everything that we do, we do with her in mind.
Earlier this week, another outstanding revolutionary, author Nadine Gordimer, passed on. She emboldened so many of us during the struggle days with her crisp, incisive, beautifully-captured commentary on the state and the wrongs of apartheid.
Next month is the month of August, which we dedicate to women. We will be building small-scale human settlements of just under 2 000 houses per province, that will be built by women for women, and will be named after women such as Nosipho Ntwanambi and Nadine Gordimer. [Applause.] This we do so that women of this country will always know and remember that, in so many ways, outstanding women stood up against the evils of the past so that we can move forward with dignity.
For today, my time is limited to the budget of the Department of Human Settlements. The department has been allocated a budget of R30,5 billion for the current financial year, representing an increase of R2,2 billion from the previous financial year. This allocation is expected to grow over the next three years to R33,5 billion.
The totality of this budget is broken down as follows: The conditional grants to provinces and municipalities, as well as transfers to human settlement institutions, amounting to R29,6 billion or 97% of the department's total budget.
Most capital grants are transferred to provinces and municipalities to fund the development of human settlements, infrastructure development, land acquisition and the eradication of bucket and rural sanitation backlogs.
The direct grants amount to R27,7 billion and include the following: the Human Settlements Development Grant of R17,1 billion; the Urban Settlements Development Grant of R10,3 billion; the Rural Households Infrastructure Grant of R4,6 million, which is a direct portion; and the Municipal Human Settlements Capacity Grant of R300 million.
The indirect grants amount to almost R965 million and include the following: the Rural Households Infrastructure Grant of R65,5 million; and the Bucket Eradication Programme of R899 million, which is a new grant.
The Municipal Human Settlements Capacity Grant is a new grant which is linked with level 3 accreditation of metros. The grant is intended to provide operational funding to municipalities expected to be assigned the housing function. The R900 million grant allocation over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period, is decreased to R300 million per year, and has been sliced off from the Human Settlements Development Grant. This conditional grant is meant to be transferred to the eight metros in terms of the Division of Revenue Act when the accreditation process is done.
The Bucket Eradication Programme is a new grant. The objective is to eradicate all bucket toilets across the country. This is an indirect grant for a period of two years to be implemented by the national Department of Human Settlements. The programme is budgeted for R899 million for the current financial year and R975 million for the following year.
Since my appointment as Minister of Human Settlements, I have spent most of my time meeting with housing entities, stakeholders and senior officials of the department. This has given me some idea of where we are right now, and has made me concerned about the drastic drop in housing delivery over the past five years. Taking all of these together, we have decided that we need to be very focused, deliberate and work twice as hard to make up for the drop in housing delivery.
I shall briefly discuss with you how we intend to move forward to fix our problems and double our efforts: Firstly, we will appoint an audit company to audit some of the entities whose output and management of finances, we feel, are cause for concern;
Secondly, we will restructure the department to make it more adept at dealing with the challenges we face. We will establish a unit headed by a deputy director-general, DDG, that will be dedicated to military veterans and vulnerable people in our country ... [Applause.] ... such as child-headed households. The then Department of Housing adopted a policy for housing for military veterans in 2007, and up till now there is not a single house to show for our responsibility towards people who fought so hard in a war for this country to be liberated from oppression. This is a sad indictment on us.
We owe it to them to prioritise them, yet it seems that we have been bogged down by red tape for the last seven years. This is completely unacceptable to us. This DDG unit will ensure that we can, within the next 12 months, have provided a roof over the heads of at least 5 854 indigent military veterans. These will be housing units which will be topped up by the Department of Defence and Military Veterans, to make them more suitable for people deserving of these. The military veterans themselves will be brought in to build their own houses in every province where they reside, in order to build capacity around them. This will be under the direct responsibility of the Deputy Minister who will be our builder in chief, as opposed to the commander in chief of military veterans. [Laughter.]
We will also consult with the Department of Social Development to identify child-headed households, so that we can provide them with shelter on an urgent basis. Also, as part of the concept of human settlements, we will identify those areas where women are extremely vulnerable and provide shelter for abused women, which can be used by social workers of the Department of Social Development. Again, this will be under the direct responsibility of the Deputy Minister as caregiver in chief. I must add that the Deputy Minister has already started this work by providing a house for a woman with special needs in the Western Cape. I would like to congratulate the Deputy Minister for this initiative. [Applause.]
Thirdly, we will encourage employer-assisted housing. We believe that employers, especially big employers, have a responsibility to ensure that their employees are housed in decent conditions. We have seen what happens when people are housed in conditions that are unacceptable in Marikana. We, as a government, will take the lead in this, by establishing a Government Employee Housing Scheme. We hope that the mining companies will follow suit and so too will many others such as Checkers, Pick 'n Pay, etc.
Fourthly, derelict buildings in the inner city are a safety and health hazard, and are prone to being hijacked. Once occupied, the responsibility on municipalities is an onerous one. We will be taking this matter under consideration and seeking legal advice on the possibility of expropriation where we find absentee landlords. These can then be turned into rental stock after they have been refurbished by the municipality or the province. In reviewing the Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act of 1998, we will consider options to confiscate property from absentee landlords if it is not looked after.
Fifthly, there is a great demand for affordable rental accommodation in inner cities and areas where there is economic development, for low-income earners. Rental stock at reasonable rates, which we will call Social Housing, is the way we will have sustainability and the provision of affordable housing for those people who do not earn enough for the existing market.
Sixthly, the subsidy quantum will be reviewed because the Minister and Members of Executive Council, MinMec, has found it is unacceptably high. It is clear that the use of brick and mortar has become too expensive and we would need to look into innovative ways of building better and cheaper houses. They will be houses that are decent and that can stand the test of being adequate accommodation for our people.
Seventhly, as you are aware, on Monday we returned 402 families to the site they originally occupied in Lwandle. I established an commission of inquiry, and from this we hope to learn what needs to be done about the vexing question of illegal occupants of land facing us on a daily basis. I am very glad that today we have the MEC from Gauteng here. I don't know whether he is still married to his wife because most of his time is spent running after evicted people. [Laughter.] I would like this House to send our condolences to his wife and say that things will be sorted out as soon as we are able to. [Interjections.]
It is also very clear that we need to send a message to landowners, for them to understand that the value of their land is an asset only for as long as it is protected and safe. By the time it has been invaded, it loses its value almost immediately. What we must all understand is that the law that we have is intended to protect the rights of people who establish their homes, and protects them in the same way as it protects the owners of private property. When removing illegal occupiers of land, due processes have to be followed at all times.
We remain very concerned about the issue of evictions, especially as it is happening all over the country, and it invariably happens outside the prescripts of the law. The Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act of 1998, was specifically crafted in response to the large-scale evictions – especially of farm workers, which was reminiscent of apartheid's forced removals – and was passed in recognition of the fact that many of those who occupy land were most affected by apartheid. Communities living in informal settlements, even on unlawfully occupied land, deserve and must be afforded the equal protection of the law, in the same way that private property is protected not only by the law but by the Constitution as well. The balance is worked out in due process.
There is therefore a need to look at how we proceed, and we want to ensure that we can strengthen and give protection to the vulnerable of our society. We need to relook the Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act of 1998. The experiences that we have witnessed and that we continue to see suggest that the requirements of the Act are not adequate enough to give effect to individuals who are affected, and that the protection that is provided in the Constitution does not filter down through to the law and affected people. Accordingly, therefore, we will be reviewing the Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act.
We await the outcome of the commission of inquiry I established, to understand the circumstances of Lwandle, to assist us to understand where we have gone wrong, how far we have gone wrong and to learn from it, so that we are better equipped when we review the Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act. We have to find a way of dealing with both the scourge of illegal invasions and the callous way in which evictions occur, as was the case in Lwandle.
Eighthly, we want to encourage our social partners to join us in building social housing for affordable rental housing;
Ninthly, large land shortage is a dire problem for us. As you know, we established the Housing Development Agency, to buy land in bulk in well-located areas, and bank it so that we are able to build on it and ensure that we are speedily providing opportunities for our people. Yesterday, I was happy to learn that the Minister of Public Works, Mr Thulas Nxesi, has acceded to our request and released land for the purposes of building human settlements. [Applause.] I didn't believe this, but I did have a breathalyser which I used on him and he was very sober. Our sincerest gratitude goes to him. [Laughter.]
Finally, the President has instructed us to form part of the revitalisation of mining towns. As you know, these are Matlosana, Emalahleni, Sekhukhune, Lephalale, West Rand and Matjhabeng. I will be meeting with the Chamber of Mines next week to discuss this matter and how we will proceed. We already have the required experience, as in 2008 we assisted the mining house of Anglo Platinum to build houses for their employees. We hope to learn from this in order to ensure that we can put these practices into operation.
Where these towns are located, we look forward to the involvement of members of the NCOP, because our experience in the past has been that the most difficult part in dealing with mining towns is stakeholder relations. This is very important. We would like to count you as our partners so that we can educate the miners that it is in their best interest that they form part of the scheme. We do this to make sure that we can provide them with decent housing.
Deputy Chairperson, I hope that when I see you nodding, you are nodding on behalf of everybody ... [Laughter.] ... so that all of us will be in these mining towns to take equal ownership of making sure that we provide decent housing. Thank you very much for that offer. [Applause.]
The human settlements environment has evolved since 1994. We have moved from Housing, where good work has been done in delivering houses to our people. Human Settlements takes this further. It requires that we not only take decisions about where we want to build factories and where we want to create economic opportunities, but to first consider and decide where our people should live. Our history of separation of people along race lines makes integration an imperative, second to none. We have seen over the last month the events unfolding, both in Blackheath and in Makhaza. This is an unacceptable situation. We are all here equal to each other, and every one of us is protected by the Constitution. The equality of each person and their right to a house in a proper residential area is the responsibility of Human Settlements, and we intend to make sure that we take this up and educate our people in understanding that divisions along racial lines in residential areas is a thing of the past. Future generations will live as one country, and as one people, integrated in the spaces they live in.
As I said earlier, the delivery of houses has dropped over the past five years. Whatever the reason for the drop in housing delivery, it is very serious against the backdrop of increasing urbanization and the promises that all of us made on the election trail. Our job therefore will be to unblock whatever pipes there are, and rev up the engine to high voltage. We will deliver not only the one million houses that we promised in the manifesto of the ruling party, but we have upped that. Therefore, we say to you now that we are committing ourselves, together with yourselves, to building 1,5 million housing opportunities over the next five-year period. [Applause.] This requires an enormous effort and a doubling of the capacity of the instruments and vehicles we are using. It requires a mobilization of all of society to be a partner in the building of their homes.
Wherever we are, we appeal to you, hon members of the NCOP, to come and build with us, so that you can experience the challenges we face. We want you to come and build with us so that you can experience the excitement on the face of a person receiving a house for the first time. Please come and build with us so that if you find fault, you are part of the solution. Come and build with us and be part of it. See what lies ahead of us and be part of what we remove that lies ahead of us. We have all made promises to our people, in the run up to the election. We have these promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep. I bank on your support. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
END OF TAKE
Ms L C DLAMINI
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The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 57
Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Deputy Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity. My greetings go to the hon Minister, the Deputy Minister in our midst, the hon Chief Whip, the hon MEC from Gauteng, and hon members of the Council. Indeed, hon Minister, we will be with you throughout the process of changing the lives of our people for the better.
Before I get to my speech, I want to mention that we are holding this debate just a day before we celebrate the birth of our icon and the outstanding work that he did. It is sad to note that we are also doing it when the weather is very, very cold, especially in Cape Town. The people of Lwandle ...
Siswati:
Bantfu baseLwandle bahleti emakhateni. Siyabonga kakhulu Ndvuna kutsi ukhonile kubalamulamulela, badzimate bakhona kubuyela lapho bebakhe khona.
English:
... because their government, their city, their municipality, to which they are contributing their taxes, did not care for them.
Mr J J LONDT: You are lying.
Ms L C DLAMINI: That is why they are pushed up and down. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Hon member, just stop. That comment I heard. I heard a member say that the member is lying. That is unparliamentary. Will you please withdraw that statement.
An HON MEMBER: Now!
Mr J J LONDT: I withdraw the statement that she lied. She is not telling the whole truth ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): No, no, no. [Interjections.] I didn't say, "Explain." I said, "Withdraw".
Mr J J LONDT: I withdraw.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Thank you very much. You may proceed.
Ms L C DLAMINI: On that note, hon Chairperson, I want to invite the hon Executive Mayor of Cape Town to spend her 67 minutes providing the people of Lwandle tomorrow with whatever they need in the places they are staying. In doing so, she will be doing justice to make up for the injustices that they have done to the people of Lwandle.
Together, moving South Africa forward by creating sustainable human settlements and improving quality of the households of our people, we want to welcome the verdict of the court yesterday in the case of the seven community members of Cape Town who were charged for the spilling of human faeces at the provincial legislature. We want to thank that particular court. We feel that justice has been done, because we fully agree that our people in the Western Cape do not deserve those toilets that were provided to them. [Interjections.] No one from the Western Cape, whether black or white, deserves that.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Is that an objection or a point of order?
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Deputy Chairperson, on a point of order: May I ask the speaker a question? Will the speaker take a question? [Interjections.]
Ms L C DLAMINI: I'm not going to take it.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Oh no, oh no. Hon members, if a member wants to check whether a member is prepared to take a question, it is for me to determine that. It is not for members to then interject. Hon member, are you prepared to take a question?
Ms L C DLAMINI: I am not, Chair.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): She is not prepared to take the question. Thank you very much.
Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Chairperson and Minister, the committee constructively discussed the presentation of the department on 15 July 2014. It was satisfied that the proposed budget is in line with the national policy directives and government priorities, such as the National Development Plan, which is in line with the Freedom Charter of our people and the manifesto of the ruling party, which, just in May, was given a mandate by the people of this country.
The committee is convinced that this plan and the budget will be able to change the lives of our people for the better. We support it because we feel that, working on building the one million houses and, using a conservative figure of six people per family, it will change the lives of an additional 6 million people in our country. We, as the committee, therefore support the budget, and we will be there in support to make sure that the plan is being implemented, as presented.
On land issues, following from what the Freedom Charter said, that ``the land shall be shared among those who work it.'', the issue of land remains prime on the agenda of integrated human settlement, and making sure there is transformation is a challenge in our country today.
Our urban areas make a vital contribution to the national economy, hosting factories, offices and many work opportunities. It will always be attractive to young people seeking a better life. It is little surprise that Census 2011 shows that 62% of South Africans are now living in our cities and towns, and that the populations of some municipalities grew by over 50% between 2001 and 2011. We face the challenge of highly inefficient, segregated and exclusionary divides between towns and townships. This imposes not only on the economy and the fiscus, but also on our families and communities.
Those who were in power before democracy – and I know they will moan now – made sure that land was privatised just before we took over the government, so that we were not able to build houses for our people closer to where they worked. It has now become very expensive for government to ensure that there is integrated human settlement around towns. It is not only expensive for government, it is also expensive for our people because the little money that they get, they use for transport instead of investing in our economic growth. Just in this province, the informal settlement alongside the N1 is testimony to their making sure that there is no land available for our people to settle in town. That is why our people find themselves in those informal settlements during this cold weather.
As far as the matter of houses, the Freedom Charter states, "There shall be houses, security and comfort." We applaud the work of the ruling party and the ANC-led government. In just 20 years, the government has been able to build over 3 million houses. This benefits over 16 million people – compared to nothing that was done by the previous government in 300 years. One hears people talking about 20 years, as if government only started 20 years ago. It was there before; they did not do anything, and now they only criticise what the government is doing.
Hon Minister, the committee is asking your department to support provinces, especially municipalities, on the acquisition of land for integrated human settlement to take place. We are also requesting you to support provinces and municipalities to deal with issues of illegal occupation of houses, which leaves the rightful owners suffering because, in turn, they cannot access the grant, as their houses are occupied by others.
On the issue of the bucket system, as much as we applaud the government for the massive reduction in the bucket system, it remains an issue that has to be addressed. We are pleased to note that the department has budgeted almost R900 million for the eradication of the bucket system.
I must remind the House – we always hear people criticising the government about the bucket system, as if it is a system that was introduced by this ANC-led government. This is a system from an apartheid government, and it was mainly meant for black people. You will never find that system in the white areas where they and the Madam are staying. They must not call me to order because I am also a Madam! [Laughter.]
It is surprising that this kind of separate development still exists in the Western Cape, where, just recently, we had the so-called phatha-phatha toilets, or whatever. What? Phatha-phatha. [Interjections.] Oh! It's porta-porta. For me, it is a glorified bucket. It's a bucket! Whether it is white or black, for me, it is just a glorified bucket. [Interjections.] This cannot be done in white areas. It is only provided for black people. So, it is surprising to say the Western Cape is the best-run province if they are still providing such a system for our people. It justifies our assumption that, in fact, black people are not treated as full citizens of this country.
Through the monies that they are contributing to government, the money that is used by the Western Cape government is our taxpayers' money, but they are given the bucket system. We call upon the Western Cape government to provide proper sanitation to our people instead of those glorified buckets. We are pleased to note that the ANC-led government is prioritising that.
We would like to call on the City of Cape Town and the Western Cape provincial government to be live on these issues. Stop politicising social issues and deal with those issues to ensure that the lives of our people are better. If you go along the N1, to Lwandle and other areas, to those people who are using the bucket system and say to them the Western Cape government is the best-run administration ...
Siswati:
... bangamangala kutsi ukhuluma ngani, (they would be surprised as to what you are talking about) ...
English:
... if you consider where they are sitting.
So, we are requesting the department to treat the Western Cape like any other province. It's no different. Don't listen to what they are saying. Look at the problems our people have, because, for them, ``best-run'' refers to their own people, forgetting the black people, some of whom voted them into power.
It is for these reasons, and others, that, in partnership with the Department of Higher Education and Training, we want to support the department's initiatives of having a degree which will go to PhD level, in terms of capacitating people on human settlements.
The department's mandate is to establish new nonracial towns and cities to concretise the principle of a united people in nonracial residential areas. The new town of Lephalale, Joe Slovo City, under construction in Limpopo, is an example of what we are talking about. To improve urban areas, we are requesting that the Minister assist the municipalities, as indicated before.
We also support the initiatives of the development of mining areas or towns. However, we also request the hon Minister to look at the new grant that has been introduced for urban improvement for the metros. The committee's concern is that we are not sure if it will not widen the gap between the metros and the smaller municipalities. We have about 17 secondary cities in the country. Let's see if we cannot use that money to capacitate those municipalities, so that they themselves are able to build houses, because that is where, in most areas, we have our people who are really in need. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
END OF TAKE
Mr H B GROENEWALD
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 Aug 2014,"Take 58 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-58] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
Ms L C DLAMINI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 58
Mr H B GROENEWALD: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of the NCOP and guests.
Hon Minister, you made the right sounds here this afternoon. If you are honest in what you said, I believe there is a great future for South Africa as far as human settlement is concerned. Thank you for that.
To our chairperson, I just want to say, let us leave the black and white. That is something of the past ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Just hold on, hon Groenewald.
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Hon Deputy Chair, I would like to know whether it is parliamentary for a member to say that the Minister, when she was speaking – making words – made the right sounds. Maybe the hon member can tell us what sounds he heard. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): I didn't hear that. With the greatest respect, I didn't hear that and I don't know what it means. Can you therefore give me an opportunity to consult the Hansard in order to look into the context in which it was raised, and then make a ruling on that? You may continue, hon Groenewald.
Mr H B GROENEWALD: I would like to say to the chairperson of the select committee that, if she wants to see progress, then she should come and join the DA. She will then see what we mean by progress.
An HON MEMBER: That's regression!
Mr H B GROENEWALD: All local South African citizens want to share in the prosperity of the country and want to stay in a proper house provided with the basic and necessary service infrastructure. Our people want to be beneficiaries of houses with title deeds so that they can be the proud owners of their own piece of land in South Africa.
The DA, as an opposition party as well as part of government, wants to see that quality houses are built in all nine provinces. The budget allocated for housing must be spent in all municipalities. Enough land must be made available for housing projects in all municipalities. The necessary infrastructure must be in place before starting with the housing projects. The beneficiaries who are on the priority lists must get their homes first. These beneficiary lists should not be changed with every election.
There are many institutions in South Africa that are more than willing to help see that proper houses are built for the citizens of South Africa. The Minister also mentioned these, so we are on the same page.
On 10 July 2014 in the North West province, Lonmin officially handed over land to the North West legislature onto which more than 2 600 housing units will be built. The Marikana Extension 2 housing project is expected to be an improvement on government's RDP projects.
The North West Provincial Government has allocated R462 million for the construction of the housing units. The infrastructure includes water, electricity and sewerage systems that were already put in place by Lonmin.
Everyone in South Africa will agree that all South Africans deserve a better life. To be able to achieve this objective, the following goals must be met: there should be development that uplifts the quality of life of the people of South Africa; the expansion of social and economic infrastructure; the build of cohesive, caring and sustainable communities, and economy that will create many jobs that we are so badly in need in South Africa.
What is really happening on the ground and what are people complaining about? They are complaining about corrupt councillors who have their own housing rental schemes using RDP houses and municipality rental properties. The MEC of Human Settlements in the North West, hon Collin Maine, urged councillors to ensure that community members benefit from the projects. He said, and I quote: "Councillors, you must not put your uncles on the list for houses".
The national human settlement database is insufficient because many families have more than one RDP house or have houses in different towns or provinces. People are complaining about foreigners who get houses long before the South African citizens who have been on the housing list for a long time. People are complaining about contractors who are paid before contracts are completed and then just disappear with the money, leaving behind incomplete projects. Local contractors must benefit from these housing contracts and share in the available jobs. Too often, labour is imported from other areas or provinces by contractors. Too often politics is used to only benefit some contractors or some workers searching for jobs at the projects. People are complaining about contracts and tenders given to friends, relatives, mayors, councillors and municipal managers. People are complaining about contracts being delayed due to non-payment by municipalities and departments, causing huge fines. The construction of housing at the Marikana project was scheduled to start in March 2014, yet not a brick has been laid on that project.
Hon Minister, I would just like to bring some issues of the past to your attention. At some point during Minister Sexwale's period of office as Minister of Human Settlements, he said in this House that we would fight corruption, and that we would nail and jail corrupt officials.
The DA asked questions about "Taking Parliament to the People" in KwaZulu-Natal. In Nquthu, in 2011, 500 houses were demolished owing poor workmanship. Promises were made to the people to rebuild the houses. The DA wants to know what has happened since then.
In Ward 33, Marikana, after the tragedy occurred in 2012, the President of South Africa made promises to the mining people for better living conditions. Nothing has happened since then. That is my constituency and I know what I am talking about.
Another burning issue is Khutsong at Carltonville in Gauteng – a very slow project. Only a few of the 16 000 houses that must be built in that area have been built. The project has been running for many years already, yet it is far from completion.
Ward 1, Meriteng in Rustenberg in the North West province is a big headache. Five hundred houses were supposed to have been built by 2011. Not a single house has been built.
It is about time that different provinces share their successful strategies with each other. In the Western Cape, on 2 July 2013 ... [Interjections.]
You must listen. You must hear it. And then we must build on it. But some of you don't care about such things. [Interjections.] Don't interrupt me! [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Hon Groenewald, the minute you don't address me, you will feel interrupted. So, address me.
Mr H B GROENEWALD: Chairperson, thank you. Protect me, Chairperson. [Interjections.]
On 2 July 2013 in the Struisbaai in the Western Cape, the first 14 beneficiaries from the community became the proud owners of new houses from Phase 1, on time, and with their own title deeds. The project was a Breaking New Ground housing project –previously the RDP housing projects – and, when construction on Phase 2 began on November 2013, had a budget of approximately R12,8 million. It is set to deliver 111 houses when completed by the end of July 2014. Again, each beneficiary will be handed their title deed to their property upon occupation.
At Arniston the housing project is a good flagship project. Because the project is on a heritage site, specific standards were set for construction in the Record of Decisions, ROD. These houses have now been built according to the SA Heritage Resource Agency prescription and look like the old fishermen cottages.
The provincial department has a strategic focus to provide a range of housing opportunities and deliver on 16 different programmes.
The Cape Agulhas Municipality is responsible for registering beneficiaries on their housing list and ensuring complete transparency in housing allocation. The provincial department will work closely with municipalities in the provision of housing developments. The municipality is responsible for the appointment and management of the contractors who build the houses. The provincial department maintains oversight over the projects. The department also pays an amount to the National House Builders Registration Council, NHBRC, to ensure that the quality of the houses is guaranteed. This supervision and quality control stops poor quality construction and houses falling apart within months after being built.
One of the most important issues around human settlement is to have an open opportunity society for all. Every person must have the opportunity to get a job as a local, to get the skills needed and to obtain some qualifications in the process in order to empower themselves for the future. [Interjections.] You can't do it!
The Department of Human Settlements must also open opportunities for all the various communities. The department must uplift the quality of life of our people by restoring their dignity and enabling them to look after themselves and their families.
To be successful inthe Department of Human Settlements, the Minister must fight the corruption and put a stop to maladministration and fraud throughout the department, provinces and municipalities. [Interjections.] You must listen.
The Minister must discipline and blacklist those officials and contractors found guilty of bribery and corruption. The Minister must finalise and correct the national database to include all provinces. The Minister must use quality control by the NHBRC at each project. To restore their dignity, all beneficiaries must be handed their title deeds upon occupation of their homes. The Minister must ensure that the budget is utilised according to the rules and policies of the government, and that the citizens of South Africa derive benefit from it. Thank you. [Applause.]
END OF TAKE
Mrs P C MQUQU
Mr H B GROENEWALD
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 59
Ms P C MQUQU: Hon Minister of Human Settlements and your Deputy Minister, hon Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon Chief Whip, hon permanent delegates, distinguished guests, members of the media, ladies and gentlemen, each year on 18 July, South Africans celebrate Tata Madiba's birthday. This is a day when all citizens dedicate 67 minutes of their time to doing something good for their communities. The ANC-led government invites all citizens of this country to come together and honour ...
IsiXhosa:
... uTata uMadiba, uDalibhunga!
English:
The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa is the cornerstone of South Africa's democracy from which the Bill of Rights is set. The Bill of Rights stipulates that everyone has the right to freedom of expression. Thus different opinions from different quarters of our society are embraced at all times. Most importantly, the Constitution states that government must put legislative measures in place to achieve all rights as enshrined in our Constitution.
IsiXhosa:
Sihlalo, ndivumele ndikhumbuze amalungu ale Ndlu nabantu baseMzantsi Afrika ukuba sinempazamo yokulibala ngemvelaphi yethu nendlela esasifudula siphila ngayo kweli lizwe. Sahluthwa umhlaba liqaqobana okanye ligcuntswana labantu lasibeka kwiikona ezohlukeneyo ukuze sizibone singabahambi kweli lizwe lookhoko bethu. Siphila kwilizwe apho kufuneka siwulwele umhlaba wethu ukuze kuphuculwe iimeko zokuhlala.
Namhlanje abantu beli lizwe, kumaphondo olithoba, bame bume bekhangela iindawo apho baza kuthi bafumane okanye urhulumente okhokelwa yi-ANC afumane indawo aza kuthi abakhele izindlu ukuze bazibone bephila ubomi obungcono. Loo nto ke yenziwa ngabantu, ayihlanga ezulwini. Ngabantu ababekhona apha kwikona ethile, nabafika sonwabile, siziphilela kwaye, silima kulo mhlaba sisenza nantoni na esiyithandayo sikwatshatisa neentombi zethu. Basidudula baya kusibeka kweziyaa kona. Namhlanje kufuneka sigobe iminqwazi sicinga amacebo namaqhinga okuzama ukuqinisekisa ukuba umhlaba ebesifudula sixhamla kuwo ubuyela kuthi ukuze sikwazi ukuzisa iinkonzo ebantwini.
Namhlanje, Sihlalo, ndiyakuqinisekisa ukuba i-ANC ikwazile ukunikezela ngezindlu ezizigidi ezingama-300 ebantwini balapha eMzantsi Afrika. Asiyiyo intsomi le. Siyi-ANC sithetha esikwenzileyo singqine esikubonileyo ukuze nina bantu ningakwazi ukwamkela ubunqina bethu. Mandenze umzekelo ophilayo.
English:
According to the report of the Eastern Cape provincial legislature of 2013 to 2014, the achievements of the Eastern Cape department of human settlements are as follows. The department obtained an unqualified audit opinion in 2012-13. [Applause.]
IsiXhosa:
Ndithetha ngelaa phondo ndisuka kulo laseMpuma Koloni, ngaphandle kokuba uBawo Nombembe le nto ebiyithetha asiyiyo inyaniso. Ndithetha into eyenziweyo. Zaphicothwa iincwadi kwafunyaniswa ukuba iMpuma Koloni ihamba phambili ekuqinisekiseni ukuba iinkonzo ziyaziswa ebantwini. [Uwele-wele.]
English:
The department has completed 51 247 housing units in the four years.
IsiXhosa.
Andithethi ngale minyaka ingamashumi amabini, ndisathetha ngale minyaka ...
English:
... for the four years.
IsiXhosa:
Khumbula ke ukuba urhulumente obekhona ngaphambili ulawule eli lizwe iminyaka engama-300. Ubenzele ntoni abantu?
English:
... for four years - 51 247 housing units.
IsiXhosa:
Sihlalo wale Ndlu ...
English:
The first province to establish a housing tribunal in the country is the Eastern Cape. The first province to roll out the Finance-Linked Individual Subsidy Programme through the Walmer Link project is the Eastern Cape.
IsiXhosa:
Zizinto ezenzeke kulo mhlaba.
English:
Hon Chairperson, allow me to give credit to the Department of Human Settlements for the beautiful work done to make sure that South Africa realises the dream of a better life for all.
IsiXhosa:
Ubomi obungcono kubantu. Kule minyaka ingamashumi amabini asimanga, koko siyaqhuba kuba sifuna ukuqinisekisa ukuba ubomi obungcono mbombo zonke buyenzeka ebantwini. Nale yalapha eLwandle i-ANC enoMphathiswa ongumama naBaphathiswa ababini baza kubutshintsha ubomi baba bantu bufane nobomi babantu. Hayi ukuba abantu bafane neehagu bahleli ehokweni.
English:
Allow me to give credit to the department ... Sorry, Chairperson, I am repeating myself because ...
IsiXhosa:
... ndiya ndifudumala. Kwakhona Sihlalo, inkqubo yokubambisana kwamasebe karhulumente ukuqinisekisa ukuziswa kweenkonzo kuluntu yenze umsebenzi wokuziswa kweenkonzo ebantwini walula. Ukunikezela ngamanzi, ugutyulo lwelindle, ufakelo lombane kunye nokwakhiwa kweendlela eziphakathi kwezindlu kwenze kwavuleleka amathuba amaninzi emisebenzi. Abantu baye baxhamle kwezaa projekthi.
Masitsho ukuba nangona sele kukuninzi esele kwenziwe, kusekuninzi ekusafuneka kulungisiwe. Abantu kufuneka bafundiswe ngokubaluleka kokuzimela bangaxhomekeki kurhulumente. Uza kuphawula ukuba nangona urhulumente ezama ukuphelisa amatyotyombe akhele abantu izindlu, ezi zindlu bayazithengisa ukuze bafumane imali baphindele kwakulaa matyotyombe. Ibonise ke loo nto into yokuba iSebe lezokuHlaliswa koLuntu linoxanduva lokuba apho kuthe kwakhiwa khona izindlu zanikezelwa ebantwini yona kufuneka ihambe iye kongamela ukuze xa umntu ethe wathengisa indlu yakhe okanye waqeshisa ngayo kwaba bantu bavela kwamanye amazwe kubonwe icebo ngaye. Abonelwe iqhinga. Ngaloo mazwi ...
English:
... the ANC supports the Budget Vote. Enkosi. [Thank you.] [Applause.]
Mr J Mamabolo
Ms P C Mququ
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 60
Mr J MAMABOLO (Gauteng): Deputy Chair, Minister and Deputy Minister, hon members, chairperson of the select committee, ladies and gentlemen, let me take this opportunity to join all the speakers who have reminded us that we are holding this budget debate on the eve of celebrating the life of one the most world-renowned icons, Comrade Nelson Mandela, the first President of the democratic South Africa. Let me also take this opportunity to express my appreciation for all the remarks made, particularly by comrades from the ANC and the chair of the select committee, hon Stock. I think that was very moving speech and I would like to congratulate you on a refreshing input. Thank you very much for that.
An HONOURABLE MEMBER: Energetic ...
Mr J MAMABOLO (Gauteng): ... Very energetic. Let me dedicate my first speech in this House to the former general secretary of the SACP, leader of the ANC, former commander of uMkhonto weSizwe, first Minister of Housing in the democratic government, Comrade Joe Slovo. He was one of the most refined scholars who contributed profusely to constructing the foundations of our democracy in this country.
Let me also take this opportunity to welcome and appreciate the speech delivered by hon Minister Sisulu in the National Assembly and in this House. Well done, Minister, for your excellent and decisive leadership. Malibongwe! Congratulations on your reappointment as Minister of Human Settlements. [Applause.]
And, of course, hon members, you might have heard hon Groenewald making some sounds ... [ Laughter.] ... but I think ,in the main, most of them were definitely terrible sounds, except for one where he thanked and welcomed the speech by the Minister. I want to say to you, hon Groenewald, that you do not have to doubt what the Minister said. Trust her words; she is very honest and sincere. That is why President Zuma thought she should come back to lead this very important department. So, you can rest assured, that she is very confident and committed to what she said, and I think you should trust what she said.
Let me also say that some of the challenges facing our province regarding human settlement are, in many respects, similar to challenges in various provinces. Of course, there are, however, unique ones that are as a result of the distinct features of Gauteng province. As many will know, Gauteng province has a huge population, and so is the marginal growth every year of people from various provinces and those from the continent and the world at large. We are the largest economy in the country, one of the biggest economies on the continent and, of course, a key player in the world economy.
A unique characteristic of Gauteng province is that it occupies the smallest land surface and has the biggest share in our gross domestic product. In other words, our province has the biggest magnetic pool of productive resources and, most importantly, human labour. It is also important to note that our task of delivering human settlements in line with the principles of the historic Freedom Charter, which are now the cornerstones of our Bill of Rights, is an enormous task. In this regard I refer to the basic principles of freedom, human dignity and equality.
As Karl Marx, one of the best and most renowned scholars would have said, "We deliver human settlements, not under the conditions of our choice, but those directly encountered." In other words, this happens under conditions directly imposed by the past. Such conditions include the severe negative impact of the apartheid spatial patterns engraved in the oppressive and divisive Group Areas Act; the many years of colonialism of a special type and the current ongoing and deepening world economic crisis that certainly impact on vulnerable groups, particularly, women, children, people with disabilities, the elderly, the poor and the working class. In this regard, the world economic recession means that we have tight budgets, less resources but overwhelming demands for our people.
Let me also acknowledge the good work done by the ANC-led government - the only democratic government known to our people now and in future - to settle our people and to deliver houses. I think the ANC has done an excellent job which can be seen by all.
The principal and strategic challenge in Gauteng province to settle our people in line with the commitments of the ANC election manifesto, the National Development Plan, NDP, relates to the question of land management and land usage. As you surely know, land is a source of wealth and the most strategic resource for human settlement in our province and across the country. Land management and its usage are fundamental to the profound question relating to the transformation of apartheid spatial patterns. Our approach to land usage is critical for the type of houses we seek to build and for their relocation in relation to economic development and growth. We need to change and transform the architectural design and landscape of our province to ensure that our cities, townships and our rural areas in the province reflect the principles of nonracialism, integrated communities, class and gender demographics. To this goal and to this end we need seriously to consider the model of housing development already introduced, of course, by the Minister here in Cape Town along the N2, and in Cosmo City in Gauteng province.
Moving forward, our province will seriously explore and look at mega buildings and our high-rise buildings. We need to ensure that the architectural design and reconfiguration of our province profoundly addresses the challenge and the decay of the Johannesburg inner city and many other cities in our province. You may be aware that in many parts of the inner city of Johannesburg there are buildings - and I think the Minister made reference to this point – that have been hijacked and neglected buildings which devalue the inner city. This is a question that we have to attend to in our province.
We must ensure that our approach to human settlement and the deployment of our financial resources help us to radically transform and alter the spatial landscape of our townships such as Burgersdal, Winterveld, Everton, Tembisa and Alexandra.
Our approach to human settlement in Gauteng will see us direct resources and budgets to the complete turnaround of our inner cities and townships and of course the eradication of informal settlements. Gone are the days when Thokoza, Sebokeng, Refilwe, Khutsong, Alexandra and Ga-Mampšana look the same. In the next five years they should look different.
On a more urgent point, Minister Sisulu and the premier of Gauteng, Comrade David Makhura, have directed us to urgently resolve and allocate government-built houses that have been completed but not yet allocated.
In many instances, many of such houses are a source of dispute due to contestations on the credibility, integrity and reliability of housing beneficiary lists. We find, of course, many in the townships I have mentioned – in the big townships in our province. Already, just as a concrete example for hon members, we, in our province, have reached an out-of-court settlement with community leaders in Burgersdal.
We have appointed a service provider to provide us with an audited list, taking into account government policy, making sure that we receive a proper and accurate list of beneficiaries. Through such an audited list, if accepted by the community leaders, we will deliver many of the disputed houses in our province. And again, if this model we are trying proves to be best practise – if it gives us good results - we will follow in other areas across the province. I am quite confident that very soon, hon Minister, we will make progress to allocate houses that have not yet been allocated in the province.
It is in this context that we welcome and appreciate the Minister's policy intervention to introduce the best technology and work with the State Information Technology Agency, Sita. This will ensure that we have credible and reputable housing waiting lists that will establish the trust communities have already lost in the waiting lists.
It is also in this context that the premier of Gauteng province during his state of the province address announced that we should seriously consider exploring and putting to test the use of biometrics to deliver houses. We should ensure that the housing beneficiary lists are trusted and accurate beyond dispute. We should make sure that we end the cycle of people waiting permanently for housing, of houses being sold and rented to people who don't deserve it and of corrupting the housing list and manipulating it.
With respect to management in the Department of Human Settlements in Gauteng, I must say we have one of the biggest challenges of poor management of contractors and service providers. In Gauteng we have lots of contractors who are involved in the delivery of housing and the department does have a serious challenge of making sure that many of these contractors perform in delivering quality houses in time and, of course, at an accurate cost. This challenge will have to be attended to as it is a very big problem. Unless we address this issue, we will continue to face the problem of resources being wasted and I think, given the challenge we have of fewer resources, we need to attend to this question.
Another matter that is important to us is, as the first step to transform the Department of Human Settlements in Gauteng, to address the challenge of people in acting positions, particularly in senior management. As the first step towards addressing that task, I am very pleased that, in the few months since we have been appointed, we have already completed the process of appointing a head of department for Human Settlements and we will, in the course of next week, announce this strategic position which will then assist us to fill many of the vacant posts.
We have already advertised the position of chief financial officer, CFO, and we will fill it very soon. I am quite confident that we are on track to build a new department, new cities, new townships and eradicate informal settlements. I would like to say to the House, it is important to consider favourably and look at the Minister's budget speech. I think it constitutes a breath of fresh air, and to that extent we should welcome it.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 Aug 2014,"Take 61 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-61] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
Mr J MAMABOLO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 61
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chair, allow me ...
IsiXhosa:
... ndibulele ohloniphekileyo umama uStock ngentetho yakhe apha. Ndifuna ukuthi mama, kunyanisiwe xa kusithiwa amaqobokazana angalala endleleni, alahlekile.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP ((Mr R J Tau): Hon Deputy Minister, before the records send a wrong message ...
IsiXhosa:
... nanku uMama uStock uhleli apha, lo umkhombayo ngohloniphekileyo uP C Mququ ...
English:
... from the Eastern Cape. Here she is, before we are accused of getting her married without her knowledge! [Laughter.]
IsiXhosa:
USEKELA MPHATHISWA WEZOKUHLALISWA KOLUNTU: Ingakumbi xa sincoma umntu ongenguye. Ndibulela kakhulu qabane ngoba kuyacaca ukuba uyawubona umsebenzi owenziwa ngurhulumente okhokelwa yi-ANC. Ubonisa into yokuba sinje thina.
English:
Working together we can do more. Chairperson, hon Minister Lindiwe Sisulu - we are excited about your return to the Department of Human Settlements - all MECs present, chairperson of the Select Committee on Human Settlements, umama uDlamini, hon members of the NCOP and honoured guests, I greet you all this afternoon. May I also extend a word of welcome to the Director-General of the Department of Human Settlements, Thabane Zulu, and his team.
Tomorrow, the hon Minister and I will be marking the 67 minutes in honour of our icon, the former President Nelson Mandela, by cleaning at Cosmos City in Gauteng. As we mark 20 years of freedom, we do so by responding positively to the historic document of our people, the Freedom Charter, which states that there shall be houses, security and comfort and the manifesto of the ruling party.
In line with this, the department is expected to do the following: provide 1,5 million houses in the next five years; accelerate the provision of basic services and infrastructure in all existing informal settlements; mobilise for supply of affordable housing to teachers, nurses, police officers, etc; and eliminate the title deed backlog.
We are proud of our track record as we gear ourselves to redouble our efforts in the delivery of housing in the next five years. The Department of Human Settlements does have a good story to tell. In the past 20 years, we have built over 3,7 million houses, benefiting over 12 million people. More than 400 000 households in well located informal settlements have been provided with access to basic services and secure tenure in the past five years alone.
During the early years of the department, we focused on the provision of housing to the people in the lower end of the market, those who are earning between zero and R6 500 per month. This category qualifies for a full government subsidy. The municipalities and provinces are urged to prioritise the allocation of houses to the most vulnerable sectors, namely, the elderly, people with disabilities and child-headed households.
Over the years, our policies have evolved and now we are facilitating the provision of rental accommodation through the social housing institutions, SHI, and the Finance-Linked Individual Subsidy Programme, Flisp, managed by the National Housing Finance Corporation, NHFC. The transfer of the Estate Agency Affairs Board, EAAB, from the Department of Trade and Industry means that the Department of Human Settlement now is regulating the entire housing market.
As government we have intensified the upgrading of informal settlements. We have achieved this through the National Upgrading Support Programme, NUSP. What we are asking provinces to do is to involve communities when they do informal settlement upgrading because it should be used to empower communities.
I welcome the report of SA Human Rights Commission that says that the City of Cape Town Metropolitan Municipality is in violation of human rights by providing communities with chemical toilets. We will continue to reactivate communities to support the People's Housing Process, PHP. This programme needs to be supported because it covers ordinary people building houses for each other.
The hon Minister was speaking to one of the people in the PHP who raised the issue of frustration regarding the PHP. We are dealing with these matters. We encourage provinces to please empower the youth and women contractors in the building of houses. We are excited because the Minister has instructed National Housing Finance Corporation to ensure that women contractors build houses to mark Women's Month. Approximately 1 956 houses must be built by women contractors in each province. [Applause.] It is a milestone. We understand that there will be resistance in some areas, but we will ensure that the women are empowered in the process.
I would be doing a disservice to this House if I do not respond to hon Groenewald. You are really grandstanding because your party does not focus on governance issues. Just go to Moorreesburg, in the Swartland Local Municipality, and see our people who have been living in houses with cracks and look at the houses that burnt down in Hout Bay and Philippi.
We have instruments that can do rectification. We can do rectification with emergency housing. We have a rectification programme and we have allocated an amount of R4 million to this province so that they can deal with these issues. None of these things are done. Yet you come here and grandstand as the best province while our people are suffering on a daily basis. Stop grandstanding, govern the province and empower our people. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): I wish to bring this to the attention of the House. What you have before you, as a speakers' list, might be slightly different from what I have with me. So, please, as I call members, just be ready. If you are on the speakers' list, ensure that you are in the House because I can call you at any time. [Laughter.]
Ms L Mathys
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 Jul 2014,"Take 62 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-62] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 62
Ms L MATHYS: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon MEC, hon Deputy Minister of Human Settlements, revolutionary greetings. The housing department had a name change. It was once called the Department of Housing. We had a name change and it was named the Department of Human Settlements. It was a noble gesture to bring some dignity and an element of humanity to this critical government service. However, I am failing, I am failing, I am failing to see the dignity and the humanity in the Department of Human Settlements. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Can the hon member speak into the mike please?
Ms L MATHYS: Am I too far away? Okay, let me get closer. Is that better? Okay, good. [Interjections.] Do not distract me; you are using up my time!
A more appropriate title that we should have, at the rate we are going as the Department of Human Settlements, would be ``the department of basic shelter'' because - let us just be honest - some of our animals in this country have better quality shelter than our people.
This is a painful thing for me to talk about now - the bucket system. Here we are in 2014, I stand in this lofty Chamber of the NCOP and I am talking about a bucket system! A bucket system!
Hon Minister of the Department of Human Settlements, you promised that the bucket system would be eradicated in 2019. [Interjections.] Yet, here we are with a new deadline and I am failing to see the horror in us that we are, once again, delaying in restoring the dignity of our people with the bucket system. So, now we have extended the deadline again. We should hang our heads in absolute shame that we have extended this deadline again. Yet, yet, yet, we can deliver e-toll gantries, world-class stadiums, and let us not forget the infamous Nkandla resort in less than five years. But, 20 years later, here we are and we still have our people using the bucket system. We should be ashamed! It should be shameful!
My hon chairperson Dlamini of social services, I beg that we put our relentless efforts in making sure that we provide the oversight that we should in eradicating this bucket system. It is a disgrace that we should be having this conversation.
Let us talk about land. We cannot provide human settlements without land and now we are having discussions on where we are going to get land. I walk and drive all over this country and there is land. I do not understand why we must buy back stolen land. The Housing Development Agency has failed to identify land and then the land that it does identify is located at significant distances from where our people live. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Should we just grab it back?
Ms L MATHYS: We want land identified close to the hubs of economic activity and our people must be allocated homes based on how close they are to their workplaces. Then let us get all our middle-class South Africans, the minority, up in arms. You see, we have an oversupply of golf courses in our neighbourhoods and we have our people that work there who have to travel and wake up at three o'clock in the morning to come and service us in our areas. Those golf courses have infrastructure and we should go and nationalise them and build decent housing for our people, so that they do not have to get up at three o'clock in the morning to come and service our areas. [Applause.]
Then there are game reserves. We have game reserves that are springing up faster than we can provide toilets. Hon Minister Sisulu, is this a good story to tell? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Hon members, order! Order! Order! Order, hon members! Can you allow the hon member to speak!
Ms L MATHYS: With regard to housing, this comprehensive housing plan is not radical and is not aggressive in dealing with the issue of the backlog of housing. The so-called RDP houses are substandard quality because - we know the story - contracts are given to incompetent, politically connected contractors. [Interjections.] You know this and we do not have to debate this.
The human settlement development grant has not provided positive changes to the lives of our people. It is just a corruption vehicle, as we know, for politicians and officials. [Interjections.]
Another thing is that municipalities are given a mandate to build houses. Has this department not worked out that the municipalities are not fulfilling their mandate? Yet, here we are, increasing their grants again - same thing and same old story.
Let us talk about the EFF and what we are going to do. [Interjections.] Yes, we will. We will not only provide proper housing and sanitation but we will clearly identify and define what proper housing and sanitation is. We will establish a state housing construction company ... [Interjections.] ... that will improve the quality of housing and the quantity of the houses that we build. Finance and mortgages must be regulated. Twenty years is way too long to be paying off the house. The integrated human settlements should, and in a real sense, ... [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Julius broke down...
Ms L MATHYS: ...in all the settlements, be led by the state, where we guarantee bulk services such as water, electricity and sewerage. House repossession for your primary residence must be illegal. The EFF cannot support the Bill that does not support our people. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M KHAWULA
Ms L MATHYS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 62
IsiZulu:
Mnu M KHAWULA: Ngiyathokoza umusa wakho Sekela Sihlalo ohloniphekile.
English:
Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister of Human Settlements, hon Deputy Minister, if you starve rural people, they die and if you starve urban people, they riot. This is the kind of thinking that seems to be driving the decisions of the Department of Human Settlement around the funding of projects. For as long as the bulk of the department's budget continues to flood the big cities and secondary cities, people will continue to flock into the cities unnecessarily. This, in the course of events, creates a neverending cycle of the mushrooming of informal settlements around the cities.
We still find many of our hostels with living standards that are even worse than those for animals. Very few of our hostel dwellers have reasonable access to the most basic services of water and sanitation.
The Urban Settlement Development Grant does not reflect a fair spread of the resources amongst the provinces. For example, according to Statistics SA, KwaZulu-Natal is the second most populated province after Gauteng, but the bulk of the allocation – R4,9 billion - in this grant is given to Gauteng. The reason is that Gauteng has three metropolitan cities and KwaZulu-Natal has only one metropolitan city. It is even worse for provinces that do not have a metropolitan city because they receive absolutely nothing of this grant. Hence this grant shares R10,2 billion for 2014-15, R10,6 billion for 2015-16 and R11,2 billion for 2016-17 among only five provinces, which are the Eastern Cape, the Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape, only because they have metropolitan cities.
Out of the total budget of R30,5 billion for 2014-15, the national department's operational budget is a mere R8 284 000 million. An amount of R29,6 billion is for grants and transfers. The grants utilised by other levels of government on your behalf, hon Minister, do not always produce quality work. The shady work they produce is done on your behalf.
Whilst accreditation to solve this problem is a step in the right direction, the other contributing factor that has to be sorted out is the issue of cronyism and favouritism in the awarding of contracts.
One gets the sense that the department has lost touch with many of the needs of the people they are supposed to serve. There are many things that the department has accomplished and should be commended for, but the slow pace of delivery, the inability to deal effectively with corrupt practices in the department, not acting on the concerns of the people and the inability to hold MECs responsible have eroded the trust that people have in the department.
Just yesterday, the Public Protector held a report-back meeting in Hambanathi township in KwaZulu-Natal, in uThongathi. A house was shown there, which on record of the department is a house delivered, but in actual fact, it is a toilet. We have many instances like those still taking place on the ground.
The IFP urges the Minister to take on the plight of our most vulnerable, not to stand for trickle feeding of service delivery in this department and not to tolerate departmental budget underspending, especially in the provinces and municipalities.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyathokoza, Sihlalo ohloniphekile. [Ihlombe.]
Mr B MADIKIZELA
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,21 Aug 2014,"Take 63 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-63] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
Mr M KHAWULA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 63
Mr B MADIKIZELA (Western Cape): Acting Chair, national Minister, Deputy Minister, hon chair of the select committee, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, let me also congratulate the national Minister on her budget speech both in the National Assembly and this Council. I think the Minister has identified all the challenges and I think that gives us hope that some of the challenges that have been identified will indeed be addressed.
Let me talk briefly to some of the issues that hon Dlamini raised. I also need to remind hon Dlamini that the problems that we are faced with, particularly in Lwandle, were not caused by the City of Cape Town or the provincial government of the Western Cape. I think we need to remind her about that.
In fact, she spoke about the fact that the mayor needs to spend some time in Lwandle. The mayor has spent a great deal of time in Lwandle dealing with the humanitarian side of the plight of that area. It is indeed true that a number of people in the Western Cape, particularly in informal settlements, are not living under ideal conditions. However, we must also be mindful of the fact that Western Cape is not the only province that is faced with this challenge. We must also be mindful of the fact that according to Census 2011 the Western Cape, just like Gauteng, has experienced the most population growth, almost 30% in just 10 years.
Between 2001 and 2011 the Western Cape province experienced a population growth of almost 30%. But, besides that, the Western Cape, again according to Census 2011, is the leading province in terms of basic service provision. We need to remind this Council of that.
Compared to all the provinces in South Africa, the Western Cape is in the lead in terms of the following: Sanitation; water provision; electricity; and refuse removal.
While we acknowledge the challenges that we are facing in the Western Cape - which are the challenges that are faced by all provinces in South Africa - we are still leading in terms of provision of basic services.
Ms M F TLAKE: Chair, on a point of order: I want to know if it is parliamentary for the member to mislead the community by claiming what is not his.
Mr B MADIKIZELA (Western Cape): That is not a point of order, Chair, but I will refer the member to Census 2011 because the statistics that I am quoting...
Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Chair, on a point of order: A point of order was raised and you were supposed to respond not the member. He must give you the respect that you deserve. Instead of him continuing, he must give you time to rule on that matter.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Thank you. That was not a point of order. Continue, hon Madikizela.
Mr B MADIKIZELA (Western Cape): Acting Chair, housing is a right enshrined in the Constitution but we must also be mindful of the fact that the Constitution does not give us a blank cheque in terms of this right. Every right comes with responsibility. I want to quote what the Constitution says when it comes to housing provision. The Bill of Rights, Chapter 2, section 1 and 2 says: "Everyone has the right to have access to adequate housing." Most importantly, section 2 says ``The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures...'' and, more importantly, ``...within its available resources, to achieve the progressive realisation of this right.'' I am quoting this because we have raised unrealistic expectations and given the impression that everyone who needs a house will get it tomorrow.
We also have a challenge in situations where the waiting lists are manipulated and more emphasis needs to be given to this. For example, in 2012, the Western Cape started a programme called the housing demand database improvement programme to ensure that the waiting lists of all the municipalities are reviewed so that the right and the most deserving people become the ones who are prioritised with regard to housing provision.
Again, we are sitting on a ticking timebomb in terms of the backlog in infrastructure. In the Western Cape alone we have a backlog worth R26 billion in terms of infrastructure and more attention needs to be given to this. The introduction of the Urban Settlement Development Grant,c...
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon Deputy Chair, on a point of order: The speaker continues to make reference to you as Acting Chair. In fact you are a House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I am not an Acting Chairperson, Mr Madikizela; I am a House Chairperson.
Mr B MADIKIZELA (Western Cape): Thank you, Chairperson.
The utilisation of the Urban Settlement Development Grant, as was pointed out by a number of speakers, needs to be closely monitored, particularly at municipal level. I am happy that the SA Local Government Association is also part of this debate because we are facing some challenges in the manner in which some of the municipalities are using this grant. It is not going to what it is intended for in terms of making sure that we are dealing with the challenges of infrastructure.
Just to address the Minister through you, Chair, this morning I had a meeting with a group that is representing people with special needs. In 2012 the Western Cape Department of Human Settlements submitted a proposal to review the policy so that we are able to accommodate institutions that are looking after people with special needs. I am happy because you touched on this in your speech - that we will be able to speed up the process so that we can finalise it and be able to provide a subsidy for institutions that are looking after people with special needs.
The title deeds' backlog is also an issue that the Minister touched on but I also want to caution the Minister on the target that we have set for ourselves as the Department of Human Settlements - that while we agree with the Minister that we must eradicate the title deeds' backlog by 2019, we must also deal with problems where there is a number of people in a house that has been built by government over the years, who are not the original beneficiaries. In most areas where there is still a backlog in terms of title deeds, the people who live there are not the original beneficiaries. We need to find a way to make sure that we deal with that particular challenge.
The Western Cape is the only province that has started a project where alternative building technologies are used. We are building almost 2000 houses using alternative building technologies. This is one of the issues that we will touch on. We must also accept some of the challenges that we are faced with because most of the material that is used, when applying the alternative building technologies, is not produced in the country. So, we also need to look at that.
As far as the pre-emptive right clause is concerned, we are facing challenges where a number of these people are selling these houses illegally and it becomes very difficult for the government to pick up such sales. The only way for us to pick them up is when they are selling them legally – and I think there are unintended consequences as a result of the pre-emption right clause which says that people can only sell these houses after eight years. By doing that we are also preventing poor people from becoming part of the property market which is very lucrative in terms of its value. Perhaps if we can shorten the period we will allow the majority of the poor people who have received these houses to become part of the property market which was worth R4,9 trillion in 2012. In that case, they will be able to trade with their properties, thereby, improving their economic situation.
We have started a partnership with Agri-Weskaap where we are going to look after farm workers. Thich is one of the very good partnerships where I think a number of provinces can take a lead from this partnership and be able to take care of their farm workers. Thank you very much, Mr Chair.
Mr J J LONDT: Hon Chair, on a point of order: It is not parliamentary to refer to the hon Minister only as Madikizela. He is the hon Minister and not just Madikizela.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He is an MEC not a Minister.
Mr J J LONDT: The Western Cape has got a provincial constitution.
END OF TAKE
Cllr B MOLOI
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-64] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
Mr B MADIKIZELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 64
Setswana:
Mokhanselara B MOLOI (Salga): Dumelang bagaetsho. Ke rata go tsaya tšhono eno, Motlatsa Modulasetulo, go go leboga. Ke be ke boe ke leboge le go tlotlomatsa Tona ya Lefapha la Bonno jwa Batho mo boemong jwa...
English:
... Things are going to change for the better, ke a leboga [thank you]. Our Deputy Minister and MECs present today, our acting Chief Whip of the Council and the chair of the select committee, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, as the SA Local Government Association, Salga, we would like to applaud the Minister on a clear-cut and insightful speech, which sets out, in plain and simple terms, what the department intends to achieve in 100 days, one year, and by the end of this administration's term. Minister, we could not ask for a clearer call to action, so thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen and hon members, for our part let us be clear as well:Salga intends to be part of the solution and not the problem. The Minister demands nothing less than the total mobilisation of society around housing provision – a Marshal plan for human settlements. Therefore, in this House today, we would like to express our clear and deliberate commitment as organised local government on behalf of all our municipalities in the country, to do our part to make this happen.
To achieve our target of delivering 1,5 million houses over a five-year period will not only require the doubling of the capacity of the instruments and vehicles that are currently used, but it will require new instruments, new vehicles and new delivery models.
In the same breath, we are pleased that reaching a resolution on the issue of accreditation and assignment of municipalities is a top priority for the Minister's first 100 days. We reiterate that this matter is urgent, and we therefore welcome the Minister's acknowledgement of the negative impact and uncertainty that this has had on municipalities, provinces and the sector itself. Delays in the disbursement of the capacity grant to be assigned to the six metros will carry financial and legal implications for those metros that we are talking about. As Salga, we are saying that the uncertainty and delays currently being experienced in the assignment process are, frankly, untenable, and to a certain extent, undermines our policy objectives of rapid and integrated delivery. The metros need clarity on their assignments so that they can proceed with the business of delivery with greater impact and urgency.
We feel that framing assignments as a contest between municipalities and provinces runs contrary to the spirit of co-operative governance as espoused in the legislative framework and the Breaking New Ground Policy itself. The key question is: How best can we, both as a department and as organised local government, deploy the resources available to us for optimum and efficient delivery of integrated human settlements?
As Salga, our view is that one of the means to rectify this drop in housing delivery – which the Minister bemoaned – is to devolve the function to our metros and obviously to those municipalities that have shown capacity, and it is clear that they have what it takes. We believe that this is how we start to unblock the pipelines, and rev up the engines on high voltage, as the Minister said.
We are all aware of the fact that the National Development Plan calls for the devolution of the housing function in order to improve our management of the built environment; to reverse apartheid spatial patterns; and to improve urban efficiencies. To this end, accreditation is firstly a capacitation process, and Salga has all along approached it from this perspective. We feel that delivery targets must not suffer as a result of the assignment. Indeed, the ultimate aim of devolution is to increase delivery by enhancing efficiency, among others, but not limited to that. Beneficiaries and communities are not necessarily interested in whether a function has been devolved or not. They are interested in whether houses have been built and handed over, amongst others.
It is therefore imperative that we collectively focus on two things: firstly, performance risks – the readiness of metros to deliver, as demonstrated by creditable project pipelines and, secondly, capacitation and support to municipalities to take on this function, from both national and provincial departments.
We therefore welcome the Minister's commitment to reach a common understanding on accreditation and assignment, and look forward to a structured engagement with the national department and provinces in the immediate future to set out clear timeframes and parameters to which we jointly commit ourselves.
We also welcome the Minister's plan to look into the issue of derelict buildings in our inner cities. A number of municipalities are saddled with serious problems dealing with rundown, hijacked buildings in our city centres. We welcome the opportunity to work with the national department to find appropriate legal, policy and programme instruments for making productive use of these buildings, by converting them into sources of much-needed affordable rental housing for persons seeking decent and safe accommodation in our city centres.
Hon House Chair, our municipalities are well aware that, while many instances of illegal occupation of land are cases of desperate households with nowhere else to go, there have been other cases whereby people may deliberately locate to unsuitable areas, with full knowledge that the municipality may be forced to evict and subsequently provide them with alternative accommodation. We term it ``queue jumping'', as they do it deliberately because they will then be placed first in line. Municipalities have also experienced cases where opportunistic persons or groups of people deliberately organise desperate families to occupy land illegally in order to benefit themselves in various ways.
We must also be mindful that, in the first place, the ultimate aim is to prevent illegal occupation of land. The enforcement of municipal bylaws in this regard is another critical part of the whole picture. The proposed review of the Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act must therefore encompass the full complexity and multilayered nature of these issues.
As Salga, we commit ourselves to working with the national department to share the experiences and potential solutions which municipalities can offer with regard to illegal land occupation and eviction. This collaborative approach can promote greater co-operative governance and consistency of government action, rather than sow incoherence in our understanding and application of the legal framework for evictions.
In conclusion, we wish to highlight one additional area which was not directly addressed by the Minister, and that is the Rental Housing Amendment Bill. The Minister did not refer to it. As Salga, we believe that the Bill imposes a very real cost on municipalities to establish and operate rental housing tribunal information offices, which in effect amounts to the assignment of the function itself. Whilst section 9 of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act was not necessarily complied with in respect of assigning the function to local government, at the minimum, provision must be made for municipalities to claim any expense which relates to the very rental housing tribunal information offices from the national department.
Given that this legislation will apply to the informal sector, which includes our backyard rentals, and the formal sector, the Bill will have an enormous impact. For one, we will need to ensure ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Cllr Moloi, please try to conclude.
Cllr B MOLOI (Salga): We want to make the point that this Bill is intended to ensure that poor households living in informal rental units enjoy the same protection and rights to tenure and adequate accommodation.
Before I move away from this podium, allow me to say that a partnership between the national and local governments is therefore needed for the development of any ministerial regulations intended for the informal rental sector in order to ensure that the impact of such regulations, which are intended for a good cause, have a positive outcome. As Salga, we therefore commit ourselves to working with the Minister and national department in the development of regulations for the informal sector, to assist with the content of the regulations, as well as ensuring consultation with relevant municipalities.
We reiterate our wholehearted commitment, on behalf of local government, to be part of the solution to building integrated human settlements and not merely houses, so that in five years' time we have a powerful story to tell – one of delivery, transformation and real impact on the ground. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen and hon members. [Applause.]
Mr D M STOCK
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,19 Aug 2014,"Take 65 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-65] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 65
Mr D M STOCK: Hon Chairperson, the Minister of Human Settlements, the Deputy Minister, the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon members, MECs present here today and ladies and gentlemen, it is indeed an honour and distinct privilege for me to participate in the debate on the Budget Vote of Human Settlements.
This debate on the Human Settlements Budget Vote is taking place at a time when we are mourning the passing of an ANC Member of Parliament, who was a former Chief Whip of the NCOP and the Deputy President of the ANC Women's League. Hon members, tomorrow, on 18 July, it is the birthday of the world's icon and the first President of the democratic South Africa, Tata Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela.
All of us, as we are approaching that day tomorrow, will be taking the cue from the President of the Republic, hon Jacob Zuma, to commit ourselves to the cleaning programmes tomorrow. Allow me to also clarify a few sounds which were made by hon members when they ascended the podium. One of those hon members is hon Herman Groenewald; he spoke about the construction of houses in Marikana. I think this is something that must be corrected, because he also indicated that the hon President said this about five years ago and committed that houses would be built in Marikana, but up to so far nothing has been started.
I think I must actually clarify to the hon member that, in terms of the ANC-led government policies, the manifesto of the ruling party, our understanding of the concept of human settlements is not only about building houses. We don't just get in and build houses; it goes beyond that. As far as the ruling party, the manifesto and the policies are concerned, our understanding of human settlements is that it deals with the issue of transformation of human settlements. It also deals with the ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Excuse me, hon Stock. Hon Smit?
Mr C F BEYERS SMIT: Hon Chairperson, I am rising on a point of order. It is quite misleading to say that it is the ruling party. We are not a monarchy.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is that a point of order? What is the point of order?
Mr C F BEYERS SMIT: The speaker is misleading this House by saying that it is the ruling party; it is the governing party. We are not a monarchy. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sit down, hon Smit. Continue, hon Stock.
Mr D STOCK: Thank you very much, hon Chair.
The issue of human settlements, to some of us, is not only about building houses; it is also about the transformation and accessibility of the sector.
I also need to clarify to the hon member about the issue of Marikana. The North West is not only made up of Marikana. In as much as we agree that in Marikana there are more than 20 000 people who need to be provided with adequate housing, it is not only in Marikana. In the North West province, there is Madibeng, Brits and other areas. So, let's not create the impression that it is only Marikana which needs to be prioritised.
In her speech, the Minister has also indicated the fact that for the next five years, as part of the priorities of the department, the department is going to focus on the development of mining towns. The concept of the development of mining towns, to a large extent, does not only focus on one class of the society; it focuses on different classes of the society.
For example, the concept of mixed developments, as highlighted in the Human Settlements policy perspective, is that in Marikana, when the department went there for human settlement development, they found low-income earners who earn between R3 500 to R7 000. Due to the fact that we have just emerged from a five-month long strike, where miners were demanding R12 500 - therefore the department's approach to Marikana cannot be a wholesale approach, which means that we are going to build these houses for everybodybut there is going to be integrated housing development.
Regarding what the hon Mathys said, I was worried as I was listening to some of the sounds that she made. I am worried because hon Mathys came to the podium and misled the House to a particular extent by saying the department must actually consider nationalising the golf courses. I think that statement is actually very misleading. Nationalising golf courses is not part of the ANC-led government's priorities.
During our interaction with the department, they assured us, as the select committee, that their budgetary priorities are aligned to the needs of the people. Therefore, the department is expected to do the following: Provide 1,5 million houses in the next five years; accelerate the provision of basic services and infrastructure in all existing informal settlements; mobilise the supply of affordable housing for teachers, nurses, police officers and etc; and also deal with the issue of elimination of the backlog of title deeds.
We must also recognise the scale of the demographic and economic challenges that continue to hinder our objective of sustainable human settlements for all. Earlier on, the hon member, the so-called Minister from the provincial government of the Western Cape, actually incorrectly stated the statistics of South Africa. I am taking this opportunity to give this House the proper statistics that the hon member was trying give us and take us into confidence about.
According to Census 2001, the result showed that we have over 1,2 million households in informal settlements and we had an increase of almost 20% since 1996. These are the highest concentrations of informal settlements which are in metropolitan areas, which are also facing the largest migration from poorer provinces.
The demographic growth and migration is also driving the growth of informal settlements, which today numbers almost 2 700 compared to 300 in 1994. This is the correct statistic, hon Chair. The Constitution of the Republic places an obligation on the state to provide access to adequate housing to its citizens. The comprehensive plan for the development of sustainable human settlements approved in 2005 and the Revised Housing Code published in 2009 mark a conceptual shift away from the mandate of providing shelter to support the residential property market.
The ANC-led government has concluded various initiatives to enhance the creation of integrated, co-ordinated and sustainable human settlement. Vision 2030 speaks of deracialising our society and the idea is to build social cohesion within our communities. The National Development Plan calls for an expansion in the Upgrading of Informal Settlements Programme and for municipalities to develop new planning instruments to regularise informal settlements and recognise the validity of incremental forms of tenure.
As I conclude, earlier on the Deputy Chair of the NCOP indicated that we are fortunate to have both the Deputy Minister and Minister as returnees to the Human Settlements portfolio. In as much as they were appointed during the Fifth Parliament, it is actually good because they initiated some of these projects when they were leading this portfolio; to them the implementation of such programmes is a continuation of what they started.
I would also like to bring to the House's attention, hon Chair, with your permission, one of the key projects in the Northern Cape province which was initiated as a key ministerial project which is called Lerato Park. I am sure the Minister and the Deputy Minister are aware of the project. I am actually bringing this project to the attention of the House again, because it is one of the good stories of the ANC-led government. The first phase of the project has being completed, and we are now proceeding to its second phase.
To date, the project has managed to change the lives of many people in the Sol Plaatje area in the Northern Cape province. However, even if the demand is still very high, this is one of the examples of the good stories of the ANC-led government.
As the committee, we support the Budget Vote of the Department of Human Settlements, and we are of the view that the budget will improve the lives of ordinary people. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms L L ZWANE
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,21 Jul 2014,"Take 67 [National Council of Provinces Main].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-67] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
"National Council of Provinces Main",Unrevised Hansard,17 Jul 2014,"[Take-66] [National Council of Provinces Main][90P-5-085b][mm].doc"
Mr D STOCK
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 66
Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson of the House, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon members and the representative of the SA Local Government Association, Salga, and the MECs present, let me express my thanks for the opportunity to participate in this debate of the Human Settlements Budget Vote.
Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to give thanks for the insightful and very inspiring address by the Minister of Human Settlements. It is true that when you want work done, you should give it to a woman. You have actually given us hope that, as you take charge of this department, a lot is going to happen in terms of improving the lives of the people that we are leading as the governing party.
I was particularly impressed by the fact that you said that, during Women's Month, you are going to allocate 2 000 units to be built by women, in recognition of the effort of women in the struggle for liberation because, today, we are in this Chamber of Parliament due to the struggle that they waged on our behalf. We really do appreciate that.
Secondly, I was very impressed with the programme that you are actually beginning to establish with regard to houses for the military veterans association, MVA, which are houses for military veterans, even though the policy has not been finalised. I really do appreciate that because they contributed a lot, so those people cannot be just dead and forgotten. We need to do something because we are where we are due to their contributions as well.
I know that something had been started by the private sector in partnership with the provincial government in KwaZulu-Natal, KZN. At the beginning of 2014, about four very beautiful houses were built by the private sector in partnership with the provincial government on this programme. So, we really do appreciate that as well.
Thirdly, I want to come to the issue that was raised by hon Groenwald. I was a bit taken aback when you demonstrated in this august House ... [Interjections.] Oh, did he run away? Ok, I am going to reply to him all the same. You demonstrated that you are not aware of what is actually happening in your constituency. Members are expected by the electorate to know what is happening in their constituencies. So, we take note of the fact that there is a member here who does not know what is happening in his constituency.
The other issue that you raised was about Nquthu in KwaZulu-Natal. You deliberately forgot to tell this House that KwaZulu-Natal is one province that beat all other provinces as far as housing development is concerned. KwaZulu-Natal built 25 000 units in 2013 alone, beating even Gauteng, hon MEC. [Laughter.] So, you need to highlight that as well and balance your talk.
Another point is that you gave the Minister a lot of homework to do - in terms of addressing this and that issue. I am going to give you homework too before I end my speech; just listen. [Laughter.] Just listen! I am going to give you homework. [Interjections.]
Mr H B GROENEWALD: What do you mean?
Ms L L ZWANE: Fourthly, I also want to go to the issue raised by hon Mathys regarding houses that are supposed to be built for people who live in the mining areas, and all the issues that he raised, as well as the issue that the ANC is not actually doing what it is supposed to be doing in terms of rolling out houses for the poor. What would you say of a leader who demolishes a house worth R3 million ... [Interjections.] ... in the hope that he is going to build a multimillion rand house and claim to represent the poor? What do you say of such a leader? [Interjections.]
Fifthly, hon Groenewald also raised the issue of contractors that get given work because they are politically connected. [Interjections.] In Cape Town, Asla Construction is one contractor that is always given work and those that were previously disadvantaged are not given an opportunity to do work as far as construction is concerned. [Interjections.]
Mr H B GROENEWALD: That is true!
Ms L L ZWANE: So, look at home first...
IsiZulu:
Zinuke wena amakhwapha kuqala, kande usole abanye abantu.
English:
The shoddy workmanship that everybody is complaining about is an unintended consequence of the empowerment of a black person.
IsiZulu:
Uma abantu singabaniki umsebenzi, ngoba sithi abantu abazokwenza umsebenzi, uStedone Civils; ngoba sithi abantu abazokwenza umsebenzi kuphela, uMurray & Roberts...
English:
... we are not going to reach anywhere. At some stage we have got to take risks in order to develop our own people.
IsiZulu:
Okokuqala nje umgaqo wemfundo [education system] yayiba calula abantu abamnyama kulezindawo zabochwepheshe [in these specialist fields]. Siyayibonga ke iAdmin ka Msholozi ukuthi uthe uma esethatha kulabo bebephethe, ethatha lenqola eyidudulela phambili, wathi ...
English:
... reconfigure the Department of Housing into Human Settlements. As a result thereof, he called upon all the other government departments to align themselves with the priorities of government and, to that extent, Human Settlements produced graduates in civil engineering, architecture, land survey and all the other related fields. [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Ngamangala ukuthi uVerwoerd uthini la ekhona, ngoba wathi iMathematics ayingafundiswa abantu abamnyama ethi bazokwenzani na ngayo, ngoba ebona umqondo wabo ufanele ukuthi bacande izinkuni, benzele omesisi itiya. Angazi ukuthi la ekhona uthini namhlanje. [Interjections.]
Mr H B GROENEWALD: I never even used the race card!
Ms L L ZWANE: Angazi ukuthi la ekhona uthini namhlanje. [Interjections.]
Mr H B GROENEWALD: All of them use the race card!
Ms L L ZWANE: No, I am not using the race card. "The evil that men do lives after them," said Shakespeare. The evil of apartheid is living with you. So, blame your forebears; not us. [Interjections.]
The other point ... [Interjections.] No, I am not concluding anything ... that people keep raising is regarding the issue of crime, as if the ANC-led government is not serious about fighting crime. There is an anticorruption directorate that has been establised in the very department, and listen to what they have done. [interjections.]
Mr H B GROENEWALD: Nothing works!
Ms L L ZWANE: There have been 46 arrests. There have been 49 court cases. [Interjections.] There are five disciplinary cases. [Interjections] And, there are about 38 cases in court. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Zwane, hold on a bit.
Ms L L ZWANE: What more do you want? [Interjections.] [Applause.] [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Zwane, wait a second. Hon Smit?
Mr C F BEYERS SMIT: Hon Chairperson, I am standing on a point of order: The speaker is not keeping to the debate. She is off the debate. [Interjections.] She is totally off the debate. [Interjections.] I mean, how does she ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order, hon members! That is not a point of order. Sit down! Continue, hon Zwane!
Ms L L ZWANE: Ja, you feel the sting, all right! [Laughter.]
I was speaking about crime fighting by this very department that is ANC-led.
Regarding job creation, this department created 279 194 jobs through the construction project, both permanent and temporary, induced by the construction project. What more do you want? [Interjections.]
In relation to title deeds, it has never happened before that a black person was given a title deed by the oppressive government of the then National Party.
IsiZulu:
Okokuqala ukuba sizwe kuthiwa umuntu omnyama uyayinikwa iTitle Deed, bekingombuso kaKhongolose. [Ihlombe] Baqala abantu ukuthi uma ngabe kunikezwa izindlu bathole namaTitle Deed ngoba indaba yobumnikazi wendlu bekuyindaba yabebala.
English:
Coming back to you, Mr Groenewald: Take an exercise book and write your homework.
Mr H B GROENEWALD: I was not part of that. Don't blame me for everything. [Laughter.]
Ms L L ZWANE: Alright! I am pleading with you so that you get things right here in the Western Cape. Akenenze [You must do] what is called housing consumer education. [Interjections.] Educate the people about what you are going to give them; what the final product is going to be; what their expectation can be; and how much are you going to use to deliver the houses to them. Then, desist from providing amapotapota toilets that denegrade and tarnish their dignity. Desist from that and completely eradicate the bucket system.
IsiZulu:
Akekho umuntu eNingizimu Afrika osadinga indaba yehlelo lamabhakede!
English:
When you took over the province from the ANC, hey...
IsiZulu:
... kwakuyihuhula elikhulu, kwakungathi kukhulu ebenizokwenza.
English:
Rise to the party! [Interjections.] Yes, rise to the occasion! What is wrong now? You thought things were going to be easy? If you fail to rule the Western Cape, how much more about the entire country? [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Conclude, hon Zwane!
Ms L L ZWANE: So, that is the homework that I am giving you and I am doing this with all the love that I have.
Lastly, you are telling us that Lonmin is freeing up land for about 2 000 houses to be built in that particular area. Lonmin is not doing us a favour! Lonmin is returning to Caesar what belongs to Caesar! [Interjections.] That land belongs to the black people... [Applause.] ... and, returning it is not a favour. [Interjections.]
In fact, we appreciate what they have done but they need to do much more because they took vast tracts of land. So, we are going to be building those units but we are looking for much more because a lot of the land that belongs to black people was taken by them.
So, I want to say that we appreciate it but we expect much more than what they are setting about doing. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Time is up, mama. Conclude, mama!
Ms L L ZWANE: I am concluding, Chairperson. Lastly, hon Minister... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Thanks, hon Zwane. [Interjections.] Time's up, hon Zwane!
IsiZulu:
Engifuna ukukubonga, sengihlala phantsi Ngqongqoshe, ukuthi...
English:
The ANC-led government has improved...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Zwane, conclude!
Ms L L ZWANE: I am concluding! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, conclude. The time is up. I have given you enough time. [Interjections.]
Ms L L ZWANE: The ANC-led govenment is going to get their mandate renewed by the electorate because we are on the right track. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Hon Chairperson! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): The first thing is that you are not recognised. [Interjections.]
IsiXhosa:
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Andizuhlala! Akumelanga kutso wena; funeka kutsho yena!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You are recognised, hon member.
IsiXhosa:
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Enkosi kakhulu, Mhlali Ngaphambili. My point of order is: Ndifuna ukuqonda into yokuba ngumthetho walendlu na uba athi ngoku sowumnqandile intokuba ixesha lakhe liphelile, aqhubekeke athethe na?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon member, take your seat.
Let me also remind you that you might have noticed that I have given almost all of you the same fair treatment. I am mindful that it is still part of the learning curve and I don't want to be harsh. So, coming back, on the next session, it is going to be different. It is not only her, though. My only problem is having to pick and choose on members while I am presiding. If I am consistent, I have to do the same thing to all of the members because it is not only with hon Zwane that I was lenient. I have done it to almost of the members, deliberately of course. Thank you. Let me take this opportunity and give it to the hon Minister to conclude our debate.
Mr V E MTILENI: There is no Xitsonga translation. I am afraid the Minister might sometimes talk another language which I may not hear. So, the translators... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Which language is a problem?
Mr V E MTILENI: Xitsonga is not being interpreted. It should be interpreted. Otherwise, if the Minister can address the Council in English only then I will not have a problem. [Interjections.] I know sometimes there are these tendencies of including other languages... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, thank you. Sit down! Please, we request that it should not be everyday that we make a point regarding the interpretation of languages.
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
Ms L L Zwane
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 67
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, are you ruling that I should not speak in any other language?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, you are free to speak in any of the official languages of your choice.
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Thank you very much, Chairperson.
I would like to thank everybody who has taken part in this debate. I must admit that I haven't enjoyed a debate as much as I have here in the NCOP. I have found that the debate has been of a very high standard, articulated very well, and where there were no party –political or partisan snippets, I found that generally the assessment of our problems was spot on. I thank members who took part, and we will take all the concerns that you have brought to our attention on board and ensure that our policy reflects your concerns.
I am very glad that we are also represented by the SA Local Government Association, Salga, here. The hon member from Salga is usually very allergic to the Western Cape. I hope she is in good health. The points that she made have also been taken on board.
I also recognise – I did recognise the hon MEC Mamabolo from Gauteng – but I did not recognise the hon ... [Interjections.] ... no, never! [Interjections.] member here next to me from the Western Cape. I am the only Minister in this House right now. [Applause.] I do recognise an omission I made in not recognising hon Madikizela.
Hon Dlamini who is the chairperson of the select committee ...
Siswati:
Maye ngiyabonga Make, awati kutsi ungisite kwani, ungewetile. Nalapha enhlitiyweni yami kuvele kwatis cosololo; ngobe ngiyati kutsi ukubeke ebaleni konkhe loku lebengifuna kukubeka. Ikakhulu futsi waphindze wakhuluma ngeSiswati, ngeva kahle kutsi cha, sengifikile-ke nyalo ekhaya.
English:
That is all I wanted to say in another language. Usebentile Make. Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Mlangeni. [Thank you, Mlangeni. You have done a great job.]
English:
Even in Xitsonga, it is the same thing, so do not worry. [Laughter.]
I am glad that hon Groenewald is back. Yes, the sounds that you made sounded like you were speaking too. I liked some of your sounds, except that I think you are historically in the wrong party. Somehow, you have not aligned yourself to the fact that, you know, South Africa belongs to all of us. Any party belongs to all of us. You can leave the DA and come and join us and just have some sense in your head. [Interjections.]
Just yesterday, it was revealed ... you know, these DA members always want to use the Western Cape as an example of best practice. It is actually the worst practice, especially in the delivery of housing. Just yesterday, it was revealed that the City of Cape Town in the Western Cape had not used R1 billion of its capital grant – R1 billion - and that after it had not been able to use all the money given to it for housing. I think it is a shame.
To the member of the EFF, yes, there has been a 30% drop in the delivery of housing in the Western Cape. I agree! [Interjections.] Chairperson, please protect me.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order, members!
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Thank you! I agree with the member of the ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Minister.
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Chairperson, I would like to know whether the hon Minister is willing to take a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon members!
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: If you give me more time, I would.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): She's saying if she had time, she would.
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: I agree with the member of the EFF that maybe we might want to consider a construction company for the state. We are going in that direction. Of course, you have all the necessary experience. You have an on-point engineering firm that you were using ... [Laughter.] Hon Zwane, I really think that you are in the wrong job. Government needs a spokesperson. Consider that position. You have done very well.
Finally, on a very serious note, I was perturbed by the headline that was in the newspaper quoting the leader of the DA saying that the inquiry that has been set up for Lwandle is a hit squad. Hit squads are a terrible part of the vicious, murderous apartheid state that we found here. We had been subjected to these murderous squads in Lesotho, in Swaziland, in Lusaka, in our commuter trains in Boipatong, in Cradock, wherever. There is no way that Madam Zille would have spoken and thrown these words around about a holocaust. We find it extremely offensive. In all this time, she has been protected by the privileges of being white, whilst we suffered the death squads called the hit squads. Then she calls this inquiry a hit squad. [Applause.] Chairperson, I want to put on record here that this is very inappropriate and that I am going to take this matter to the SA Human Rights Commission as a complaint. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr G MICHALAKIS: On a point of order, Chairperson ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, that concludes the debate.
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Hon Chairperson, I rose on a point of order well before the hon Minister was done with her speech. According to the Rules of this Council, the Chairperson has to hear my point of order. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon member, take your seat. I gave you an opportunity. You said that you wanted to pose a question. The Minister was very clear in stating that she would do that only if she had enough time, and now you come with the point of order.
Hon members, it is confirmed that if we have representatives from Salga and special delegates – Gauteng and the Western Cape – it really confirms what we said: It is not going to be business as usual; it is going to be business unusual. We thank you for your participation, as well as that of the Minister and Deputy Minister.
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 67
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I would like to make a ruling on a point of order raised by hon Van Lingen in the plenary on 8 July 2014. During hon Sefako's speech, hon Van Lingen requested verification about what the hon member meant when he said – I quote from the Hansard transcript - "The bloodsuckers calling themselves consultants, those that put up barriers when government wants to help people". She further enquired as to whether the statement was parliamentary.
As stated, I have consulted the Hansard transcript, and before I make a ruling on the matter, I would like to bring hon members' attention to the following. The Constitution determines that members have freedom of speech in the Council and its committees. This is an unfettered right, a jealously guarded one at that, subject only to the Constitution and the Rule orders that the House imposes on itself. One such rule is Rule 46, which deals with offensive and unbecoming language or, as it is otherwise known, unparliamentary language. This is a broadly framed Rule that allows a Presiding Officer to take into consideration, inter alia, the context and tone of a particular remark or inference.
The statement made by the hon member is not strictly unparliamentary in that it does not reflect on the integrity of another member or individual. References to organisations and individuals by name, whether in debate or in notices of motion, are fairly common. Although the context and circumstances vary, essentially the only restrictions in the Rule are related to maintenance of order, for example, unparliamentary language with reference to members, sub judice matters, and reflection upon judges, etc. However, the word "bloodsuckers" has a negative connotation, and the use thereof detracts from the dignity and decorum of the House. I therefore rule that the use of the word is unparliamentary.
I also want to caution members to be conscious of the public impact of references by name to individuals, organisations, or groupings. Hon members should note that the right of members to freedom of speech should not be used lightly to make disparaging remarks about specific members of the public. I also appeal to members, as public representatives, to moderate their language and to refrain from using expressions that detract from the dignity and decorum of this House. Let us maintain the standing in which this House will always seek to be held. I therefore request hon Sefako to withdraw the word.
Mr O SEFAKO: Chairperson, I withdraw the word.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 67
NOTICE OF MOTION NOT IN CONTRAVENTION OF RULE 48
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I would like to make a ruling on the point of order raised by hon Mampuru during the plenary on 8 July 2014. Hon Mampuru raised a point of order on the notice of motion by hon Van Lingen. The hon member objected to the notice of motion on the grounds that it contravenes Rule 48 of the Council which reads as follows: "No member, while addressing the Council, may reflect on the merits of any matter on which a judicial decision is pending."
I have since ascertained that at the time the notice of motion was moved, the matter was still under investigation and, as such, no formal charges had been laid yet. Therefore, the notice of motion does not contravene Rule 48. However, I have noted that paragraph four of the motion calls on a committee of the Council to investigate the matter. This aspect falls outside the constitutional mandate of the Council, as the motion relates to a personal and private matter.
Therefore, I rule in accordance with Rule 80 of the Council that paragraph four of the notice of motion be expunged from the next Order Paper.
The Council adjourned at 16:46.
END OF TAKE
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