Hansard: EPC: Debate on Vote No 14 – Arts and Culture
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 17 Jul 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 22
THURSDAY, 17 JULY 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
_________________________
Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Good Hope Chamber at 14:07.
House Chairperson, Mr C T Frolick, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 14 – Arts and Culture:
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Hon House Chair, chairperson of the portfolio committee Ms Xoliswa Tom, members of the portfolio committee, hon members, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, we may all recall that memorable moment on 9 May 1994 when the then President, speaking at his inauguration, pledged, and I quote:
We enter into a covenant that we shall build a society in which all South Africans, both black and white, will be able to walk tall, without any fear in their hearts, assured of their inalienable right to human dignity – a rainbow nation at peace with itself and the world.
As we celebrate 20 years of democracy, we have learned with deep sadness of the passing away of the African literary giant, Nadine Gordimer. We offer our condolences to her family, friends and the arts community. We can say that through her pen and the actions of all our people on the world stage, we, as a nation, have indeed walked tall without any fear and with confidence, dignity and pride.
On the eve of Nelson Mandela Day, we can say that indeed, Tata, we have acted true to your pledge to the people of South Africa and the world. We have embraced the vision of nonracialism, nonsexism, and a democratic and prosperous South Africa, and we have strengthened our relations with the world. We can do so much more to ensure that ours is a country where everyone fully participates in cultural life and is able to access cultural resources.
IsiZulu:
Singenza lukhulu ukuqinisekisa ukuthi abantu bakithi bayayijabulela inkululeko yabo ngendlela ehloniphekile futhi enesizotha. Kuwumsebenzi wethu ukuthi zigqugquzele umoya wobunye nokuzwana. Isisekelo salokho kube kungumlando wethu onothile, ukusebenzisana, ukwethembana, ukwazisana kanye nokuxoxisana uma kufanele sixazulule izinkinga zethu njengesizwe.
Esikhathini esiningi esedlule ingcindezelo nobandlululo kube nomthelela omkhulu ekwakhiweni kwezimpilo zethu, izindlela esiphila ngazo, amathuba umuntu okufanele awathole empilweni, ikakhulukazi ezintweni ezifana nemindeni ukubuswa nokuphathwa kwezwe, amasiko, isimo somnotho, imiphakathi esiphila kuyo, izinto ezingamagugu ezwe kanye nendlela nje yokuphilisana singabantu ezweni lakithi.
English:
The pattern of development and underdevelopment is one that continues to dominate our society today. It is layered upon the sediment of the past dispensation that functions as part of the foundations of the new order. As a result, ours is an inheritance of multiple fractures that have yet to be healed despite the unifying ethos of arts and culture.
It remains our task to remake out of our fractured past a more socially and economically inclusive society that is proud of all of its cultural expressions and a people that act together to enable the birth of a new culture and create new forms of engagement towards greater unity.
The challenge we face as a society is the process of building our nation out of a vast cultural and economic legacy of difference and inequality. Thus, the National Development Plan, NDP, is a response to five key dimensions, which are: inclusive social and economic development, sustainable investment and growth, decent jobs and sustainable livelihoods, a capable developmental state, and expanding opportunities. The NDP goes further to specifically outline what we are faced with in the arts sector. I quote:
Arts and culture open powerful spaces for debate about where a society finds itself and where it is going. Promoted effectively, the creative and cultural industries can contribute substantially to small business development, job creation, urban development and renewal.
As we enter the second phase of our transition to transform our society, a brand new era is upon us. We shall turn our programmatic goals into practical interventions that together constitute radical economic transformation. Our plan for the next five years responds to the unfinished business of economic transformation as a framework for the economic vitality of our social and cultural fabric. It restores social transformation as a pillar for nation-building and unity.
The Mzansi Golden Economy programme, in line with this strategy, has begun a process of transforming the arts sector to encourage and support the pro-poor innovations necessary to equip citizens, especially the youth, with theoretical and practical experience.
Over the next five years, we shall be piloting several creative arts incubators across the country. These will be hotbeds for cultural entrepreneurship and democratise access to tools of production. These hotbeds will be the sights that we encourage as government for the creation of local content. This is part of the Mzansi Golden Economy programme, which seeks to expand supply and work opportunities, grow audiences, transform the colonial heritage landscape, collect relevant data to inform policy direction, and develop artists to be economically self-reliant. The incubators will enable us to measure the output of locally developed content in terms of music, artworks, film and stage productions, amongst other artistic outcomes.
These creative arts incubators will be located in cultural precincts and villages that will position the creative sector at the centre of cultural life and economic development. Through constructing and upgrading spaces, these facilities will bring people together for social dialogue and cohesion. Together with eThekwini Metro, we are piloting a fashion hub in the city. We are working on the development and implementation of five-year strategies for fashion, design, animation, crafts and performing arts.
The National Film and Video Foundation will begin a roll-out of pilot film hubs to grow township and rural audiences and provide infrastructure for emerging film makers to tell the South African story through film. We shall establish a film fund that will support the growth of the local film industry. This will also lay the platform for the department to create a specific venture-capital fund that will finance cultural entrepreneurs. This is in line with the goals of the NDP.
The Mzansi Golden Economy venture-capital fund will be established over a period of three years. We will work closely with the National Treasury to develop the MGE venture-capital fund for the creative arts, which will take into account the unique needs of the artists and the sometimes erratic nature of the revenue streams in that sector. Through this fund we will invest in the early stages of artist development through taking the artist's products to the markets. This will close the big gap that is currently faced by artists who end up living from hand to mouth or die as paupers as a result.
We will launch the Mzansi Golden Market platform, an e-platform, will showcase the works of artists and enable the buying of a range of art services on-line. It will encourage individual artists, art organisations and businesses to register. It also acknowledges that government is the biggest buyer of goods and services and will use this platform as their first choice for buying. This means unlocking opportunities within government and the private sector for the buying of goods and services in the arts and culture sector.
We will work closely with the Department of Small Business Development to ensure that cultural entrepreneurs can start their creative enterprises with no red tape so as to ensure that artists are the beneficiaries of incentives earmarked for small businesses.
As part of this phase of our five-year initiative, we will engage with the Davis Tax Committee to conduct a comprehensive review of tax incentives in the arts and culture sector to enable cultural entrepreneurs to access opportunities that are otherwise prohibitive owing to onerous financial barriers. We shall intensify our work with the Department of Trade and Industry and the Department of Communications to reform the South African intellectual property regime.
Task teams set up to explore local content and music development will submit concrete recommendations to government. I must pause here and say that we are determined to ensure that indeed local content determines the content in our country. We have been talking about this for a long time. It is time that we put in place mechanisms to ensure that our local artists are exposed through that local content. [Applause.]
The visual arts task team is assisting with a visual arts national policy framework, which will include recommendations on the creation of resale rights for artworks that will enable artists to benefit through secondary markets for their work alongside galleries, auction houses and art collectors.
We shall work with the Department of Communications and the SABC to increase and sustain support for local content and local content producers. We shall closely monitor local content commitments made by broadcasters and be more vigilant so that artists get full exposure of their work.
We are supporting the interim committee of the Creative Industries' Federation, appointed in March 2014, to lay the groundwork for an organising body that will foster unity and advocate the interests of all arts, culture and related disciplines. The committee will shortly commence with its nationwide sectoral engagements. We have embarked upon a national mapping study to quantify the economic impact of our cultural industries.
Studies on the cultural economies of Limpopo and Mpumalanga have been completed. These indicate that the arts and culture sector is already making a significant contribution to the economies of these provinces. Studies on the remaining provinces have already begun. We are reviewing the White Paper on arts, culture and heritage, and I have engaged with 28 entities reporting to the Ministry in this regard. The outcome of this engagement is that we have to take a hard look at their business models to improve their efficiency.
The Department of Arts and Culture supports 22 national and regional festivals, including the Diamonds and Dorings festival in Kimberley, the Macufe festival in Bloemfontein, and others. In honour of the founding of the Organisation of African Unity, we shall host a month-long Africa festival starting in May 2015. This will showcase African fashion, fine arts, crafts, dance, literature, music, theatre, films and food culture. This will include a series of dialogues and seminars in a festival of ideas to forge African unity and exchange through arts.
We shall also take this opportunity to popularise African heritage as we continue to support the African World Heritage Fund that enables African countries to better identify, preserve and promote their heritage.
The quest for nation-building and social cohesion in South Africa was recognised by the ANC already in 1969 at the Morogoro Conference in Tanzania, where the preamble to the Freedom Charter, "South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white," was further unpacked through understanding that the South Africa of the future will not be a country divided unto itself and dominated by a particular racial group. It will be a country of all its inhabitants.
The United Nations has subsequently defined a cohesive society as one where all groups have a sense of belonging, participation, recognition and legitimacy. In our social cohesion strategy, we have advocated the development of social capital as a resource created by the relationship between people. The challenge we face as a society today is to build cohesion. The department will intensify its work to encourage active citizenry towards an inclusive society, as is captured in the NDP.
IsiZulu:
Sizimisele futhi siyazibophezela siwuMnyango Wobuciko Namasiko ukuthi bonke abantu bakithi babe yingxenye yokugqugquzela ukugujwa kwamasiko nemicimbi ebalulekile yezwe. Umnyango wethu uzosebenza ngokuphindiwe ukweseka imigubho ephathelene nezinhlelo eziqondene nabantu besifazane, ikakhulukazi ukweseka lo mkhankaso ogqugquzela ukulwa nodlame olubhekiswe kubantu besifazane, owaziwa ngokuthi, "Hlanganani ukuqeda udlame olubhekiswe kubantu besifazane", phecelezi, "Unite To End Violence against Women". Kulo mkhankaso abantu abasha benza imibukiso elandisa ngokuhlukunyezwa nodlame olubhekiswe kubantu besifazane. Lona umkhankaso weNhlangano Yezizwe Ezihlangene.
English:
We shall seek to raise the consciousness of our people through the liberation heritage route. To trace the story of our struggle throughout the country and the continent in partnership with the National Heritage Council, we shall commence the national roll-out and implementation of the projects in the provinces.
We are establishing a Heroes' Acre in order to locate the heroic deeds of our people in fighting for nonracialism and nonsexism in South Africa. This will stand as a monument where the public can pay homage to those who fought for freedom. This will be the permanent tribute to those who gave their lives for all of us to be free.
We are working hard to ensure that the remains of our renowned journalist, who called himself "A Native of Nowhere", the iconic Nat Nakasa, will be repatriated from New York to South Africa where he will be reburied as a citizen of a free South Africa. [Applause.]
Talks are also under way to exhume and repatriate the remains of Malume Moses Kotana, the great struggle icon - and general secretary of the Communist Party for almost 40 years, the treasurer general of the ANC - from Russia to a final resting place in South Africa. [Applause.] In this way, we shall honour the request that has come from his widow, Mama Rebecca Kotana, who turned 102 in February this year.
As part of the transformation of the arts landscape, we are pleased to announce that on 10 June 2014, the Market Theatre, as it is known in Johannesburg, was renamed the John Kani Theatre in honour of our living legend. [Applause.]
We continue to observe the commemoration of 20 years of freedom through telling the South African story and fostering constitutional values through distributing the Bill of Rights to schools and on all national days. All national days are happening under the main theme of celebrating 20 years of freedom and democracy in the country, focusing on educational programmes, public dialogues and community engagements. Going forward, we have embarked upon processes to change the way we commemorate national days.
In honour of our icon and late President, Tata Nelson Mandela, we encourage all South Africans in the month of July to dedicate at least 67 minutes of their time to improving the lives of others. We are also pleased to announce that we shall be launching a renovated Nelson Mandela Museum in Umtata, where upgrades on the Bhunga Building are close to completion. Tomorrow, President Jacob Zuma will unveil a bust of Tata Nelson Mandela in Mvezo, on Mandela Day. [Applause.]
Guided by the National Development Plan and the Strategic Approach Outcome 14 in transforming society and uniting the country, together with all our programmes and interventions, we are working towards building a creative ecosystem and enabling environment within which our citizens can flourish and which will enable people to work together to achieve common goals. In this way, we shall continue to honour and indeed work tirelessly in sustaining and growing this nation, barely 20 years old, so that it is indeed "at peace with itself and the world" as Madiba predicted. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
NS (Eng)
Ms X S TOM
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 23
IsiXhosa:
Nksk X S TOM: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, uMphathiswa, uSekela Mphathiswa, amalungu ekomiti, amalungu eNdlu yoWiso-mthetho ngokupheleleyo, ndibulela umbutho we-ANC ngokundinika eli thuba lokuba ndichophele le komiti ibaluleke kangaka yoBugcisa neNkcubeko. Ndibulela kwakhona ukudityaniswa namalungu ale komiti athe kwiintlanganiso esizihleliyo abonisa ukuwuthanda umsebenzi wawo nothando lwawo kule komiti.
English:
Actually, all the members have shown passion in this committee.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyayibulela kakhulu loo nto. Olu xanduva sinikwe lona siza kulukhulela. Kwasekuqaleni, njengekomiti sizeka emzekweni kwinto ethethwe nguMphathiswa apha ngokuthi sivakalise uvelwano olunzulu ngokushiywa kwethu ngumbhali ophume izandla, uNadine Gordimer. Liqhawekazi eli. Asingombhali nje, liqhawekazi ebelithetha izinto ngohlobo ezilulo. Iincwadi zakhe zade zangcwatywa ngumbuso wocalucalulo kuba bengafuni ukuba inyani yaziwe. Umsebenzi wakhe kufuneka ungangcwatywa koko waziwe zizizukulwana ngezizukulwana. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Kananjalo, Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, sithi kuNosipho Ntwanambi esisuka kwinkonzo yesikhumbuzo sakhe, iqhawekazi negorhakazi, sithi umzamo omhle uwuzamile ugqatso ulufezile,kusele nje ukuba athweswe isithsaba. Imisebenzi yakhe ayilolize. Abaseleyo mabathathe umkhonto baye phambili.
Ndiyafuna kwakhona, Sihlalo, ukuthi kumagcisa nabantu abenza izinto zobugcisa besebenzisa izandla, aba bantu abangabo abaceli-msebenzi koko ngabenzi bomsebenzi.
English:
Crafters and artists are not seekers of jobs; they are creators of jobs.
IsiXhosa:
Sibothulela umnqwazi ngomsebenzi abawenzayo sisithi mabangadinwa, mabangancami koko mabakhondoze kuba imisebenzi yabo ayilolize, iyabonakala.
English:
On 10 November 2009, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted a resolution to name 18 July as Nelson Mandela International Day, and inscribed it on a list of the world's important days to be observed annually.
The Nelson Mandela International Day recognises the long history of Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela's leading role in support of Africa's struggle for liberation and Africa's unity and his outstanding contribution to the creation of a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic South Africa.
Tomorrow will be the first Nelson Mandela International Day without him. As the ANC, we call upon all South Africans and the world to reminisce over Mandela's legacy and work toward achieving the future that his actions and other liberation movements in South Africa and in other parts of the world have struggled to achieve.
I stand here today as a descendant of the heroes and heroines of the African continent who experienced the most painful events of our history, that of being conquered, dispossessed and enslaved.
As early as the 15th century, the indigenous people of Southern Africa were viciously attacked, subjugated and forced to forgo their identity as Africans. New colonial identities were imposed upon them, which carried foreign cultures and languages. Their artistic, religious and cultural expressions were labelled inferior, barbaric and heathen. The indigenous people were coerced to adopt Eurocentric ways of expression at the expense of their African identities.
Once they became slaves of their new colonial masters, they had to speak, study and read in foreign languages. Years of linguistic oppression and deprivation culminated in the 1976 youth uprisings in which the youth vehemently rejected linguistic oppression and demanded to be taught in their own languages.
IsiXhosa:
Eyona nto ibuhlungu yeyokuba xa ungakwazi ukuthetha isiNgesi okanye xa ungasithethi wonke umntu ukubona njengeqaba. Wonke umntu ke ngoku uyoyika ukuba liqaba. Sifuna ukuba ngamakhumsha sonke. Loo nto yenza ukuba kulahleke iilwimi zethu. Ulwimi lwakho yinkcubeko yakho, inkcubeko yakho, nguwe.
English:
If you lose your culture, you lose yourself. [Applause.]
The colonial administration believed in the divide-and-rule principle. They divided the population into two groups. Some were tagged according to their race, while others were tagged according to their tribe. When the colonialists administered an individual, he or she was either a member of a tribe or a member of a race.
For many decades, the ANC opposed this classification of people and believed that people belonged in one category, namely the category of the human race. Since the ANC came to power in 1994, it has been working tirelessly to repeal discriminatory legislation from the the Statute Book.
It is clear that colonialists knew that culture is an important element in building society. Amílcar Cabral, Africa's celebrated intellectual and a liberation fighter, reminds us that it is not easy for a foreigner to impose his domination on a people, but, once foreign domination is imposed, it can be maintained only by the permanent and organised repression of the cultural life of the people concerned, because as long as some of these people can have a cultural life, foreign domination cannot be sure of its perpetuation.
Before 1994, the ANC published its Ready to Govern document. Through this document, the ANC stated that a flourishing cultural life is vital to the wellbeing of South Africa. The ANC committed itself to striving to facilitate and celebrate cultural production that captured the diversity, complexity and vibrancy of all South Africans. The rights of all South Africans to practise their religion, uphold their cultures and speak their languages also featured prominently in this document.
The ANC is mindful of the fact that through arts and culture, a sense of national identity and pride can be cultivated. Arts and culture was perceived to be a potentially unifying force in a country divided along ethnic and cultural lines by the apartheid system. The ANC therefore advocated the creation of a single national department to promote arts and culture in a democratic South Africa.
The document emphasised that the then old national anthem and flag, being symbols of apartheid, should be replaced by symbols of national unity. The monopoly over public symbols and names, including monuments, should give way to a more diverse range, representative of our diverse population.
When you come to names, there are a lot of people who today ask, "What's in a name?" "Why should we bother about names?" There is a lot in a name. There are emotions in a name. There are aspirations in a name. So, there is a lot in name. Just ask yourself why your parents gave you the name you have. Why, for instance, is someone named "Xoliswa"? There are emotions involved. There are aspirations involved. So, there is a lot in a name.
After 1994 watershed elections, the ANC government established a single national Arts and Culture department, which included Science and Technology until 2004. Through this department, the ANC government ensured that arts and culture is used as an agent of nation-building and social cohesion. That is why you find within the department a lot of entities. As a committee, we have found that the department needs to come closer to those entities, because the entities are the organs of people's power and they should be run properly.
The committee is prepared to work with you, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, because we know that our mandate is not only about oversight, but is also about working together and giving you indications of where we, as a committee, see problems. The work that is being done in this department is mandated to bring about human dignity, equality and human advancement. There is no other department that can do this better than the Department of Arts and Culture, because we believe that it is here where a lot of government priorities can be achieved. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
/nomtha(Eng)//nvs///NS(IsiXhosa)
Mr M W RABOTAPI
Ms X S TOM
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 24
Mr M W RABOTAPI: Hon Chairperson, firstly, I would like to congratulate the new Minister, the hon Nathi Mthethwa, on his new appointment in this department. I realise that this is a budget debate for the Ministry of Arts and Culture, but I do have some genuine concerns for this department considering that the hon Mthethwa left his previous Ministry in shambles. [Interjections.] In the space of five years over R150 million was accumulated in irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure alone. Let me be clear: we will not stand for that in this portfolio either.
Hon Minister, arts and culture forms part of the backbone of our rainbow nation through which the world gets to know and understand our country. South Africa is brimming with talented artists in all fields and we have bountiful cultural values to offer the world. It is highly unfortunate then that the dismal budget management of this department is a reflection of government's outlook regarding South African artists who could play a vital role in establishing our country as a cultural capital in Africa and the world.
It is the duty of this department to nurture, guide and protect emerging artists and musicians to stimulate and support the arts in South Africa. The appalling state of the Windybrow Theatre and the Performing Arts Centre of the Free State are still plagued by mismanagement, as was revealed by the Mail & Guardian. These entities are also governed by the Cultural Institutions Act over which this department has oversight.
What are you doing to ensure that there is sound management of our arts facilities in the country? In 20 years of our democracy, we have seen emerging musicians struggling to make it to the top because of who they associate with. It is in this regard where the Bill of Rights needs to be emphasised and practised by all South Africans. We need to practise what we preach and allow our artists to grow through their performances, as we all know that practice makes perfect.
We have also seen during the elections how certain political parties were bullying artists and intimidating them not to perform at rallies of other parties. This is not just unacceptable, but also undemocratic. [Interjections.]
In 1996, the government adopted the White Paper on Arts, Culture and Heritage and its purpose was to create an environment conducive to promoting, protecting and realising the full potential of South African cultural and creative industries. The Bill was supported and welcomed by all. The ensuing 18 years following the adoption of the 1996 White Paper has seen far too many amendments to the composition and role of this piece of legislation. For instance, the SA Heritage Resources Agency, Sahra, often overlaps with and duplicates the mandate of the National Heritage Council, NHC.
With the White Paper constantly being revised, how can any government incentives be carried out for arts and culture in our country? This department needs to focus on solid, well-thought-out legislation in order to carry out this department's mandate.
The sheer raw talent in South Africa can often be found in the most remote parts of our country. Budding artists often never get the opportunity to study their craft and develop into renowned artists owing to poverty and financial constraints.
This department needs to do more to fund artists who are impoverished. More arts centres need to be set up in rural areas to give our children an opportunity to use their talents of expression. We could even create more jobs in South Africa for artists by funding these initiatives, instead of leaving people disheartened.
Indeed, this department can, and is expected to, contribute to alleviating unemployment in South Africa. What is the department doing about this? This department said that it would create 150 000 jobs. How is this being done when Ministers drag their feet and when the budget for the Department of Arts and Culture is underspent by 2%? Where is this money going?
This department also has a responsibility to stimulate literacy in our country. South Africa's economy is one of the largest on the continent, yet we place only third in the literacy rate behind Zimbabwe. Libraries are another major challenge in this department, specifically in rural provinces where there are many young and old people who were, and have been, equally disadvantaged in the past. They need to have access to resources if we are to improve the literacy rate and encourage reading in our communities.
Young readers need to be provided with well-stocked libraries around the country and specifically in rural areas for children to be provided with books. They need to read, learn and be exposed to ideas, cultures and opinions. South Africa is a country of many literary heroes, including our own Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela. So, we should be supporting the promotion of interest in literature in our country. We desperately need more public libraries.
For this department to fulfil all its obligations, all vacant posts must be filled, because the purpose of creating these posts was obviously to enable the department to carry out its mandate expeditiously. It is also clear that there is still confusion about whether municipalities are responsible for arts and culture, or whether the responsibility lies in the hands of the provincial governments.
South Africa has a rich heritage in theatre, music, dance, visual arts, crafts, film, literature and other forms of artistic expression, which are manifestations of the human need to create, be it individually or as part of a group. Art can help to build appreciation for different perspectives of our country and deepen understanding of the different experiences of being South African.
Therefore, to promote the arts and artistic expression in South Africa, the DA will do the following: encourage every province to establish its own regional arts festival and commit to financially supporting at least one flagship event per province; maintain a platform for interaction for arts festival directors to promote collaboration and the sharing of best practice; offer national arts rewards and establish an annual national arts awards ceremony with the aim of encouraging new audiences and developing the stature of all artists in our society; make public funding available for exhibitions, with a specific focus on exhibitions that promote engagement across different cultures and artistic mediums; support the establishment of a national art bank that will be responsible for procuring and curating artworks from established and emerging artists in public buildings and South African embassies; prioritise investment in the performing arts, where performance itself can be an act of social cohesion, for example in choral traditions, orchestral music and group dance; continue to provide support for national theatres and facilitate private-sector investment in their programmes and initiatives; improve the efficiency of community art centres and promote community participation in the arts through arts representatives at Mass participation; Opportunity and access; Development and growth - MOD - centres; encourage local government to support arts and culture from the office of the Mayor.
Chairperson, this is what is necessary to create an open- opportunity society for all. I thank you. [Applause.]
Litha//A N N(ed)
Ms A MATSHOBENI
Mr M W RABOTAPI
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 25
Ms A MATSHOBENI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, the EFF rejects the Budget Vote as proposed. [Interjections.]
Arts and culture can and must be used to create social cohesion and to create jobs, but this is difficult when the department has been without a chief financial officer since 2012. This compromises financial compliance in the department and its entities. It is not surprising then that there is haphazard spending.
The National Archives, as an intellectual hub of knowledge in the country, has been without a National Archivist for over two years. Our view is that this is simply owing to a lack of leadership.
IsiXhosa:
Iculture yethu ayikho kwit ...
English:
... about 80% of television programming is not South African, and SABC1 seems to have a pact with violence. If it's not violence about ...
IsiXhosa:
... soze uyibone.
English:
In the interests of promoting our vibrant cultures and local artists, legislation must be passed and enforced to guarantee a minimum of 75% locally produced content to be aired on all radio and television stations.
The department must introduce local theatres and arts facilities, so as to promote our local creative industry, especially in previously disadvantaged communities. The department must institute a living wage and professionalise the industry to make sure that artists can live off the profits of their sales.
The EFF believes that provision must be made for a minimum allowance for certified artists for that portion of the year when they do not get any income from their artistic endeavours.
Stricter laws and penalties must be imposed against all forms of piracy. Furthermore, the department's entities cannot continue to rely on the department for funding; they must create mechanisms to raise funds themselves.
Arts and Culture's footprint in the rural areas is minimal, almost nonexistent, yet that is where it is needed in order to alleviate unemployment and poverty.
The EFF believes South Africa should review all monuments and memorials in our country and reflect on whether they all belong to the collective consciousness of building a new democratic, nonracial society. Monuments that represent and celebrate white supremacy must be removed. We must start with the removal of the statue of Louis Botha outside this Parliament, and move on to those of all the colonialist criminals like Cecil John Rhodes, Jan Smuts and Queen Victoria.
The arts must transform to include more local black artists, especially African artists. Owing to people's socioeconomic situation, the people who can afford to go there are mostly whites.
Money is allocated to libraries but it is misappropriated because the libraries remain closed. The view of the EFF is that all communities must have a library with books and access to the Internet.
Black film makers like Zola Maseko, Sizwe Mkhalipi, Teboho Mahlatsi and many others don't get funding from the Industrial Development Corporation. In fact, over the past 10 years, film production in South Africa has benefited white film makers who are mostly not South African.
Instead of subsidising international arts festivals, the department must develop our own local creative industries and support local artists.
The promotion of all African languages must be equitable. African languages are still not equal to English and Afrikaans. Even within the African languages group, Ndebele, Tshivenda, Xitsonga and SiSwati are discriminated against. They are not given prime-time slots on television.
The EFF believes that the department must play a central role in the development of the Khoi and San languages, with the aim of making them official languages. Unless these issues are taken into consideration, the EFF votes no to this budget. I thank you. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Order! Thank you, hon member. The next speaker is the hon Mpontshane. [Interjections.] Order, hon member! Order, hon member! This is a sitting of Parliament. Let us respect the Rules of the House.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
Ms A MATSHOBENI
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 25
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Chairperson, this department is very important for various reasons. It is a vehicle for social cohesion, and, most significantly, it is important for its educational and emancipatory roles. This is why we as the IFP view the R3,5-billion budget as inadequate.
In traditional societies, the main aim of education was to produce a lovable, respectable and skilled individual. Culture was seen as a key vehicle for driving this important task.
The worst form of oppression has been mental oppression, in which Africans ended up despising their own cultures and, in the process, were turned into cultural victims where imitating the oppressor became the acceptable norm.
The question facing us today is how this department has assisted South Africans to transcend the status of being cultural victims. I submit that a lot needs to be done towards that end.
The process of acculturation with tangible programmes must be rolled out in earnest.
The department says that it will be placing 240 professional artists in schools to assist with cultural education. But, you must remember, South Africa has more than 24 000 schools. Therefore the inadequacy of this strategy is very obvious. There is a need for close collaboration between the Department of Basic Education and the Department of Arts and Culture in this regard. We must form a very strong link between the in-school culture and the out-of-school culture, accompanied, of course, by budgetary measures.
This department is further tasked with the promotion of social cohesion among South Africans. The department has stated that it will be doing this by, amongst other things, using our national days. However, these events have been turned into political rallies. We have even witnessed the booing of leaders from other political parties at these events. The victims will know who they are. So, there is the question of whether we are going to achieve the intended objective of social cohesion through using these national days. If we continue in this vein the answer is no.
Another aspect that should be mentioned, hon Minister, is that traditional leaders – who are the primary custodians of cultural practices in our traditional societies – are not given a prominent role to play within the mandate of this department. What partnerships, one may ask, are there between this department and the House of Traditional Leaders, either nationally or provincially?
The IFP supports this budget. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
//nvs(Eng)///
END OF TAKE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 26
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Hon Speaker, Minister Mthethwa, chairperson of the portfolio committee Mme Tom, hon members of the portfolio committee and chief executives of public entities, we are lucky today because we have Ambassador Barbara Masekela, our esteemed social cohesion advocate, as our guest. [Applause.] Kurt Darren is also present. He refused to succumb to bigotry when some people questioned his participation in the cultural programme of the presidential inauguration – he argued, "This is my country." We need patriots like him to help to build this country. [Applause.]
An African proverb says, "Until lions have their own historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter." The Department of Arts and Culture is focused on enabling our people to tell the South African story and to disseminate this knowledge to our people.
Research indicates that public libraries can contribute to the quality of social relations in local communities. Membership of a library can encourage a sense of belonging, foster civic pride and transform the lives of young people who are inspired by what they read to attain greater heights.
As part of our community library programme, which strives towards opening the doors of learning, reading and writing, we will invest more than R3 billion in the 2014 to 2017 Medium- Term Expenditure Framework period. These funds will be used to build 54 new libraries and to upgrade 150 existing libraries.
We will ensure that these libraries have books, are connected to computers and also have access to the Internet. New libraries will be located where they are most needed, namely in underserviced areas and in close proximity to our schools.
The new libraries will be built in Tsolo in the Eastern Cape, Wepener in the Free State, Wedela Township in Carltonville, Merafong in Gauteng, Vulamehlo in KwaZulu-Natal, Phokwane in Limpopo, Emjindini 43 in Mpumalanga, Tlokweng Township in the North West and Prince Alfred Hamlet in the Witzenberg Local Municipality, Western Cape, amongst other places. [Applause.]
Through the support of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and a special fund called the Global Libraries initiative, which focuses on providing and expanding technology access in public libraries countrywide, the National Library of SA will pilot this project in all nine provinces to expand access to digital resources. An amount of R32 million has been allocated for this project, which will run for two years. Twenty-seven libraries will be built in the nine provinces; three per province. Each library will receive 20 computers, which will be available for the public, the visually impaired, children and officials use, as well as 10 e-readers and 10 tablets. There will be free Wi-Fi and ongoing training in computer use, social media communication and finance management.
Our interventions, together with our international counterparts in refurbishing libraries, are complemented by our initiatives in schools that are part of the Mzanzi Golden Economy initiative.
In this financial year, a pilot project will be implemented with the SA Library for the Blind to employ speech technology to make written documents accessible in four languages for people who cannot read, or are blind.
The implementation of the Use of Official Languages Act requires that all government departments and public entities adopt the language policy and create language units by November 2014.
Tshivenḓa:
Ri khou ḓo thoma fulo ḽa u ḓiṱongisa nga nyambo dza ḓamuni, na u ṱuṱuwedza u amba nga ndimi dzo fhambananaho, ri tshi itela uri nyambo dzashu dzoṱhe dzi kone u ambiwa na u dovha hafhu u ṱhonifhiwa nga vhathu.
U pembelelwa ha ḓuvha ḽa dzitshakha ḽa u ḓologa nga dzi 30 Khubvumedzi 2014, zwi ḓo bvisela phanḓa tshumelo dza muvhuso dzine lushaka lu nga dzi swikelela malugana na dzinyambo dzine vhathu vha dzipfesesa.
English:
In this way, we are deepening accessibility to, and understanding of, all official documents to enhance communication among all our people, thus building a more socially cohesive society. We are building a more inclusive society.
This will be achieved by establishing a SA Language Practitioner's Council, which will serve to regulate language practitioners against a set of national norms and standards. The department will provide more than 280 bursaries to aspiring language practitioners to ensure that we grow capacity in promoting and developing official languages. In the next three-year cycle, the study of sign language will be included to bolster education and training efforts in this area.
The Artists in Schools initiative is placing arts facilitators and educators at schools around the country as part of integrating arts and culture into the school curriculum. Through this project, we should stimulate interest in the arts and also build cultural and social values that increase creativity and inclusivity.
Through arts education we shall also make an intervention in rewriting history so that new generations know the truth of our realities. Through the National Achieves, we will continue to support the development of the Oral History Project through our support of an annual Oral History Conference together with academics, writers and other community stakeholders.
The department, in partnership with the New Partnership for Africa's Development Secretariat, will host a Southern African Development Community regional conference in October 2014 to formulate a framework to harmonise arts education and training policies in Africa as a strategic intervention and contributor in the regional integration, social cohesion and sustainable development on the continent.
As part of building social cohesion and encouraging active citizenry, we will be hosting community conversations throughout the country. We are grateful to our social cohesion advocates, who are present here with us today, for their enthusiasm and commitment in being central to this effort of mobilising society around common values.
The results of this community engagement will feed into a National Social Cohesion report-back summit to reflect and assess work done since the first historic Social Cohesion Summit which was held in 2012.
We are going to have a programme in every school called "Flags in Every School". In addressing the need to popularise our national identity, we are intensifying our campaign to install flags in every school by the end of 2014. We will install 22 193 flags in 22 193 schools across the country. [Applause.] Various publications on national symbols are being distributed to schools, including books on national symbols and a national anthem tool kit to popularise the anthem.
As part of the National Youth Service Programme, we have developed a Trendsetter Initiative, which involves youth between the ages of 18 and 35, who are recruited and trained in the arts, culture and heritage sector.
We have partnered with the Field Band Foundation in terms of regional and national championships. This project primarily seeks to address the policy area of Youth Enrichment and Development by encouraging and supporting the development of a variety of brass bands from different communities, ranging from churches, football clubs to existing youth bands.
Through the arts access programme, we will promote arts, culture and heritage participation in correctional facilities, to empower the offenders in the arts which have the potential of self-sustainability post-incarceration and rehabilitation while under correctional supervision, in particular the youth, women and people with disabilities.
As we promote South African arts and culture to the world, we are making use of the cultural seasons, which are cultural exchange platforms to expose our rich arts and heritage.
Work on current cultural seasons with the United Kingdom is well advanced, and the South African season in the UK will launch on 18 July 2014 at a cultural concert to be held in Glasgow in memory of our late President Tata Nelson Mandela. The Commonwealth Games that will be held in Glasgow in 2014 will also feature a significant cultural programme involving local artists.
In celebration of the strong ties between India and South Africa and 20 years of freedom and diplomatic relations, cultural seasons with India also commence on 25 July 2014 in Johannesburg with Indian artists showcasing their talents in South Africa.
Significantly, this year also coincides with the centenary commemoration of global icon Mahatma Gandhi's return to India from South Africa, where he had spent 20 formative years of his life, on 18 July 1914. We have already embarked upon a year-long cultural season with China to strengthen diplomatic and cultural ties between South Africa and China and open new markets for South African cultural products. We will be announcing shortly a cultural season with Russia in 2014 to 2015.
Last year, South Africa became the 8th country to ratify the Charter for African Cultural Renaissance. Cultural seasons with Nigeria, Ghana and Angola will commence in the forthcoming period.
The contractor is now on site to start with the construction of the long-awaited Sarah Baartman Centre of Remembrance in the Kouga Local Municipality, Eastern Cape. This site holds great significance for the Khoi and San communities and the community of Hankey, and is part of our South African history.
Work on the Nqguza Hill Museum, in the Eastern Cape, has already started. The Matola Raid Memorial and interpretive centre in Mozambique commemorate the 1981 Matola Raid. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order! To the guests in the gallery, while we appreciate your attendance, you are not allowed to participate in the proceedings. You should not clap when speakers are speaking. Thank you very much.
MALUTA
END TAKE
Ms S P TSOLELI
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 27
Sesotho:
Mof S P TSOLELI: Motsamaisi wa dipuisano, ke dumedisa Modulasetulo, Letona le Motlatsaletona, ditho tsa Komiti ya Bonono le Setso, ditho tsa Lekgotla la Ketsamolao tse teng mona, le setjhaaba ka kakaretso. Ke a le dumedisa ka Letsatsi lena la bohlokwa, Letsatsi la ho tswalwa ha morena wa Basotho, Motlotlotlehi Letsie III. [Lehofi.]
Tlaleho ya tekolo ya Khomishene ya Moralo ya Naha e bontshitse bore MaAfrika Borwa a hlolehile ho dumellana le dipehelo ka kakaretso tse ba hlalosang e le setjhaba. Bakeng sa ho hlalosa sena ke kopa o ntumelle ho arolelana le Ntlo ka seo nkileng ka kopana le sona.
Ha ke ne ke tsamaya ka koloi motseng wa baahi ba merabe e fapaneng ke ile ka hlokomela bana ba babedi ba dilemo tse ka bang supa, ba bapala ka jareteng. E mong e ne e le wa motho e motsho, ha e mong e ne e le wa motho e mosweu. Ka thoko ka mane ho ne ho ena le e mong, ya ntseng a le dilemong tsa bona, e le ngwana wa motho e mosweu, a dutse a le mong mme a leka ho ithabisa ka ntho e siyo.
Ka thahasello e kgolo, ka botsa hore na hobaneng ha enwa a sa bapale le bana ba bang. Ngwana wa motho e mosweu o ile a nkaraba pele mme a re ba lekile ho mmitsa hore a tlo bapala le bona, feela ngwana enwa wa motho e mosweu a be a re o na le bothata ba hore a tlo bapala le bana ba batho ba batsho.
Mohlala ona o bontsha hore ho na le bothata bo tebileng setjhabeng. Sena se netefatsa bore boitshwaro ka malapeng bo na le seabo sa bohlokwa ntshetsopeleng ya bana le kamoo ho hlokehang hore ba be ka teng bophelong. Mohlala ona o boela o bontsha hore ngwana enwa o tswa lelapeng le sa ikamahanyeng le dinako; lelapa la habo le sa phela mehleng ya kgale. Ho na le malapa a mangata a hananang le diphetoho le ho hloka botho. Nakong ya Seboka sa 53 sa Naha sa ANC kwana Mangaung, ANC e ile ya hlokomela hore ho na le kgatelopele e kgolo e entsweng ho netefatsa hore ho na le tlhomphano ya ditso tse fapaneng. Leha ho le jwalo, ho ntse ho ena le kgaello ya kutlwisiso e ka sitisang le tlhompho ya ditso tse ding. Lefapha la Bonono le Setso le ikemiseditse ho etsa hore Afrika Borwa e be naha ya setjhaba se momahaneng.
English:
South Africa has the largest number of museums in Africa. Over 10% of the museums in Africa are in South Africa. As far back as 1825, the first South African museum was established here in Cape Town, the SA Museum, currently part of the Iziko Museums of South Africa. It depicted Africans as animals, hence they were put in the same displays with animal exhibitions. As a result, most of the museums that were established before 1994 celebrated the colonial heritage. The department has, however, facilitated a process of transformation so that these museums also reflect a holistic and correct version of history.
Heritage plays a pivotal role in the shaping of identities within society. It is against this background that when the ANC government was given a mandate to move South Africa forward, it started the process of building new museums that would assist in forging the new South African identity.
Since 1997, this department has been involved in the establishment of the following heritage projects: Women's Monument, Luthuli Museum, Ncome Museum, Samora Machel project, Nelson Mandela Museum, and many others. The department will continue to develop more legacy projects as the process of transforming heritage is an ongoing project, not an event. These projects do not only deal with historical transformation, because the department develops them in such a way that they become a stimulus for economic development and job creation.
Sesotho:
Mmotlolo ya lefatshe ya tlhahiso e a fetoha. Le ha dilemong tse leshome tse fetileng diminerale le tlhahiso ka metjhini e ngatafetse moruong, di-indasteri tsa tlhahiso tse fapaneng le tsona di hlahile e le lekala le letjha ikonoming. Lefatsheng ka bophara di-indasteri tsa tlhahiso di na le 'bokgoni ba tlhaho' bo ke keng ba lekangwa, bo kgonang ho arohanya ditso ka ditso ditjhabeng tse ding. Di-indasteri tsa tlhahiso di hlaloswa e le:
Diketso tsa setjhaba moruong tse theilweng le ho bapiswa le boiqapelo ba motho kapa batho ba kopanyang mahlale, boiqapelo, bonono ba motheo kapa tshireletso ya ona, thuto le keteko ya setso, ho kenyelletswa le puo.
Dikarolwana tse latelang ke karolo ya indasteri ya boiqapelo: Ho rala meaho; mekgabiso ya kahare ho betla; moralo; mekete le bohahlaud1 ba setso; difilimi; thelebishene; dingolwa le diphatlalatso; mmino; dipapadi tsa kalaneng tse bohwang; le ho nka ditshwantsho.
English:
During the 2009-2014 Medium Term Strategic Framework period, this department developed the Mzansi Golden Economy strategy, the MGE strategy. The MGE strategy positions creative industries in ways that enable them to take advantage of the business environment in order to maximise their contribution to GDP and job creation. Through the MGE strategy, the department envisages establishing the National Skills Academy for the creative industries, the Cultural Observatory, the Art Bank, and many more ventures that will support creative industries in South Africa.
The ANC has committed itself to the goal of growing the economy and creating more jobs, mainly for the youth and women. The department's MGE strategy will create 16 000 jobs during the 2014-15 financial year and the target is expected to grow over the MTEF period.
Sesotho:
Ha ke dihela dikgala ke re ANC e ikemiseditse ho phethisa kano eo e e entseng ho MaAfrika Borwa ao a ntjhafaditseng thomo ya ona ka la 7 Motsheanong 2014. Lefapha la Setso le Bonono le tla kenya tshebetsong mananeo a amanang le Moralo wa Ntshetsopele ya Naha, NDP, le tataiso e batsi ya Kabinete. ANC e tla tswela pele ho buella ho thehwa ha setjhaba se momahaneng sa MaAfrika Borwa se arolelanang makgabane jwalokaha ho hlahisitswe ho Molaotheo le ho NDP.
ANC e tla potlakisa mananeo a shebaneng le ho fedisa tlhokeho ya mesebetsi, ho se lekalekane le bofuma. Kahoo, ke mema bohle Ntlong ena, ba ntseng ba salletse morao, hoba karolo ya motjhini ona o sa emeng wa ho aha setjhaba. Mme, ke ANC e ka etellang pele letsholo lena. ANC e tshehetsa matsholo a tla ntshetsang MaAfrika Borwa pele, ebile e tshehetsa ditekanyetso tsa ditjhelete tsa lefapha lena. Ke a leboha. [Mahofi.]
Dr P W A MULDER
Ms S P TSOLELI
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 27
Dr P W A MULDER: Hon Chairman, and ladies and gentlemen, unluckily I do not have enough time to react fully to the previous speaker but I will invite her to my home if she wants to see how black and white children play together - little Kagiso and little Adriaan play there together. [Interjections.] Adriaan is my grandchild. [Applause.] I think Adriaan will be voting FF Plus when he is big, but at the moment that is not a problem.
As far as I can see, this government is still struggling with finding the right recipe for nation-building. If we could learn from other countries, there are broadly speaking two nation-building models that we could follow. The first one is the American melting-pot model: meaning, creating one English nation but, in the process, destroying the languages and cultures of everybody else - in America, specifically, this occurred with that of the first inhabitants, American Indians, and with all the other languages. I studied there and I saw that in action.
The second model is to acknowledge diversity and manage the different language and cultures so that, as the Minister said in his introduction, all groups have a feeling of belonging. If you want to study this second model, it is followed in Belgium, Switzerland and, to an interesting extent, in Ethiopia.
If I read Article 6 of our Constitution and the mandate of this department, then surely South Africa chose the second model as its nation-building recipe - acknowledging the differences and then managing them - not the melting-pot model that, at the end of day, forces a recipe of one language on everybody. My problem is that the ANC says what's in the Constitution, but in practice we experience model two being slowly implemented in South Africa, and that language and diversity seem not to be important.
Let me give you two examples. This Parliament established the Pan South African Language Board, PanSALB, in terms of Act 59 of 1995. I was here when it happened. It was created for the promotion of equal use and enjoyment of all the official South African languages. Interesting enough, the slogan of the PanSALB is: "One nation, many languages." I surely agree with that, and think that is the model that must apply.
Afrikaans: (15:28)
Meneer, ons moes maande wag ... Ek praat nou Afrikaans want ongelukkig word hier net in Engels vertolk.
English:
This proves my point even further. So, please listen to the English interpretation, if you can.
Afrikaans:
Ons moes maande wag voordat die nuwe PanSALB - Pan SA Taalraad - aangestel was, wat gelyk het asof dit nie 'n prioriteit was nie. Dié raad moet daarna kyk dat alle tale – nie net Afrikaans of Engels nie, maar alle tale – gelyk behandel word. Soos ek die PanSALB - Pan SA Taalraad - Wet verstaan, moet die raad die nuwe hoof uitvoerende beampte aanwys. Maar voordat die raad nog aangestel was, het daar 'n advertensie vir die nuwe hoof uitvoerende beampte verskyn. As 'n mens deur die voorvereistes lees, dan beklemtoon dit bestuursvaardighede en ander vaardighede, maar daar is 'n minimum van taal in. Ek soek iemand wie sensitief is vir taal, wie sterk voel oor taal en wie regtig die werk kan doen. Ek wil dus die Minister vra, waar trek ons met die PanSALB raad?
Kom ek gee 'n tweede voorbeeld. As ons glo dat in die tweede model van diversiteit alle tale geakommedeer moet word, dan is een van die belangrikste instrumente Artikel 6 van die Grondwet, wat sê dat alle tale – swart, wit of noem dit watter taal u wil – moet gelyk hanteer word, en die wat agter is moet vorentoe aangehelp word. Die artikel sê dat ons 'n Talewet daar moet stel wat dit gaan implementeer.
Meneer, ons moes 19 jare wag vir daaardie Talewet, met hoeveel druk, uiteindelik ook met hofsake. Verlede jaar is die Talewet aanvaar. Daarna moes ons weer 'n hofsaak maak om te … wanneer dit in die verskillende departemente geimplementeer sal word. As ek my somme maak en ek reg is, is die spertyd 1 November wanneer al die departemente dit moet implementer. Ek wil vra, gaan ons die doelwit behaal?.
As ek dit reg verstaan, moet hierdie departement riglyne opstel oor hoe die verskillende departemente die Talewet moet implementeer, want daar is sekere reëls oor hoe dit gedoen moet word en wat die keuses is wat jy het. Ek is bekommerd dat ons nie hierdie doelwit gaan behaal nie. Ek wou nog praat oor die taal woordeboek wat in al die tale opgestel is, maar ek sal dit volgende keer doen. Dankie. [Tyd verstreke.]
End of Take
TH (Afr)/Mosa (Eng & Sesotho)
Mrs C DUDLEY
Dr PWA MULDER
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 28
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, I'm not a member of this portfolio committee and I haven't been for the longest time. Hon Minister, I assume you could be just a little out of your comfort zone as well at this time, so I am hoping you will all be a little lenient with me. I'm not informed by the committee, but by constituents.
The ACDP would like to start by paying tribute to the life of Nadine Gordimer. She was recognised as a woman who, in the words of Alfred Nobel, "through her magnificent epic writing has been of very great benefit to humanity". The ACDP salutes her and extends condolences to her family.
Hon Minister you are just the champion Arts and Culture needs for a very special mission at the heart of all things cultural and arty: the removal of value-added tax on books. Government, on the one hand, is encouraging the nation to read through education initiatives, but, on the other hand, is discouraging people from reading by adding value-added tax to the cost of books.
So the ACDP welcomes the Minister's comments on a tax review. In many countries, tax systems are actually set up to encourage corporations and individuals to financially support the arts. All we have to do, hon Minister, is convince the commission and the Treasury to make private contributions to the arts tax deductible, and then actively encourage participation by corporations and individuals in funding such activities, especially in smaller centres.
The ACDP recognises that already the arts and culture sector makes a significant contribution to the nation's gross domestic product. We also recognise that it has the potential to do a great deal more if it had more financial support.
Some interesting suggestions to increase productivity range from budgets for health care and retirement provision for professional artists - whether performing on stage or painting canvasses - to budgets for departments to assist in creating industry-wide standards for all contractual documents in order to protect artists who are often so eager to work at their passion that they sign contracts with little thought given to the clauses and conditions in them.
Hon Minister, does any part of this budget speak to the fact that too many schools in this country do not have qualified teachers for such subjects and cannot afford to fund programmes? Does the department work with the Departments of Basic Education and of Higher Education and Training on these matters?
As the audiences and practitioners of the future will inevitably come from among today's students, an innovative programme providing grants for the nation's schools to bring in specialist practitioners in the arts may be a way forward, or by simply ensuring that the arts curriculum is actually taught effectively by the relevant specialist teachers in every school as a starting point.
The ACDP feels that providing funds to make certain that every South African child gets to attend at least a few performances a year of live music, theatre or dance - whether they go to the performers or the performers come to them - would be invaluable. Some countries, for example, manage to fund discounted tickets for all students within their borders.
Artists I am aware of that lead youth in music in the provinces, have, in their words, lost hope in the Department of Arts and Culture. The problem they say is that at the head office the head of the department has been suspended three times this year, and cultural officers at services points, they say, are clueless about anything to do with arts and culture. So, I'm asking if this is a problem that you are aware of, and, if you are, are there strategies for a turnaround in this? Actually, hon Minister, what they want to know is: What you are going say to them?
The ACDP has a final request from stakeholders: that your department seeks to create conditions and structures for citizens to engage, as opposed to seeing arts and culture as a means of driving government's own agenda. The ACDP wishes you every success and we will be supporting this budget. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr T MOKONDO
Mrs C DUDLEY
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 28
Mr T MOKONDO: Chairperson, hon Minister, and Deputy Minister in absentia, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, firstly, I wish to acknowledge the efforts of the Department of Art and Culture in the sector. I take this opportunity to recognise the progress made by the department to dissolve the many legacies of apartheid through fostering nation-building and social cohesion, and transforming the heritage landscape in South Africa.
I would like to begin by reciting a short poem written by James Matthews:
Freedom's child
you have been denied too long
fill your lungs and cry rage
step forward and take your rightful place
you're not going to grow up
knocking at the back door
for you there will be no travelling
third class enforced by law
with segregated schooling and sitting on the floor
the rivers of our land, mountain tops
and the shore
it is yours, you will not be denied anymore
Cry rage, freedom's child.
As I stand here in the 20th year of our democracy, I can proudly say that, as a nation, we have come a long way since 1994. The ANC has been entrusted with a renewed mandate based on its manifesto it presented to South Africans earlier this year during the election campaign.
The ANC pledged to promote the liberation heritage route as a mechanism to honour the heroes and heroines of our struggle. It also committed itself, if given the mandate to govern South Africa and its citizens, to working towards building community arts centres and libraries in every municipal ward.
The ANC also committed itself to honouring and celebrating South Africa's collective heritage by promoting our diverse cultural identities. The ANC's pledge is based on an understanding that for nation-building and social cohesion to thrive, it is imperative that citizens embrace diversity and accept one another as equals. For a country that has endured over 350 years of systematic exclusion of the indigenous people, while the minority groups were indoctrinated with the myth of superiority, it is vital that there is space for dialogue and emotional healing and redress. Indeed, it is only the ANC that has this vision, and it is the ANC that can move South Africa forward.
South Africa has a long, troubled and divided history. Today, however, South Africa is a better place to be in than it was before 1994. [Applause.] No longer do black people have to enter through the back door, and no longer does the cruelty of segregation and apartheid dictate our everyday lives. Today, we can all truly and confidently step forward to take our rightful place as equals before the law.
This right, however, has not come without a price. This right exists because of the selfless acts of bravery of countless men, women, and youth, who fought tirelessly to liberate us from economic, political, intellectual and cultural poverty. This right is one that we have to give gratitude for on a daily basis. It is our task to ensure that the deeds of these selfless heroes and heroines do not go unrecognised. We have an obligation to uphold our Constitution. As emphasised in the preamble to our Constitution, we have a responsibility to honour those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land.
The National Heritage Council is spearheading the establishment of the national heritage route. As the struggle for the liberation of South Africa was fought throughout the subcontinent, it is imperative that the liberation heritage route includes sites that are in other African states in the Southern African region.
Most political commentators, white people, the DA and small opposition parties have argued that the ANC is using history to justify its continued electoral support. I want to tell this House that the ANC government will continue to transform the presentation and narrative of South African history, because this is not a political project but a just cause. [Applause.] Those whose history prevails in monuments, school textbooks and public lectures always finds it difficult to accept that Africans have history as well.
The fact that the history of South Africa remains distorted and biased is cause for concern. The history in monuments and textbooks reflects the glory and bravery of white supremacy, as if our African heroes and heroines were spectators in the fight against land dispossession.
Xitsonga: (15:40:27)
Xivutiso hileswaku, hikokwalaho ka yini nyimpi yo lwisana ni ku tekiwa ka misava hi valungu yi tekile nkarhi wo leha, loko tinhenha ta hina ti vile vahlaleri enyimpini leyi. Leswi swi kombisa swinene leswaku valungu va tekela vanhu vantima ehansi. Vunhenha bya Nghunghunyani, Sekhukhune, Makhado, Bambatha, Dinizulu, Mzilikazi, Shaka Zulu, Moshoeshoe, Mama Mantatisi, na van'wana vo tala byi tsariwile tanihiloko va ri matoya eka matimu ya tiko leri.
English:
Indeed, the need to document the liberation struggle history cannot be disputed. It is those who were on the wrong side who find it difficult to confront the positions they took. It is their wrong political positions that led to the death of innocent people in this country.
The liberation heritage route adds another aspect to the historical fabric that makes South Africa a tourist destination of note. The National Heritage Council, an entity of the Department of Arts and Culture, has embarked on the Liberation Heritage Route Project. This project seeks to identify, document, research, present and develop a series of liberation sites. The project further seeks to recognise, amongst other people, communities, events, icons and memories that characterise the centuries of struggle for liberation in South Africa.
It is a sad truth that the legacy of apartheid still exists in both intangible and tangible forms. However, we are working with vigour to defend the Freedom Charter and abolish apartheid obstacles so that we can continue to keep the doors of learning and culture open for every citizen. The Department of Arts and Culture is at the very core of this ideal.
For South Africa to be a successful state, we have to build relationships that will bind citizens in a shared future. Through its museums, theatres, other entities and various projects, the department is making significant strides in linking the values of arts, culture and heritage to economic development, nation-building and social cohesion. The department recognises that as a consequence of colonialism and apartheid, the culture, history and heritage of the majority of South Africans were suppressed and distorted. In response to this deliberate attempt to hide and deform our past, our culture became one of resistance – a major driving force in achieving political liberation. The legacy projects that were initiated by the Department of Arts and Culture aim to commemorate various aspects of South Africa's past. Through these projects, the department not only addresses imbalances in the representation of our past, it also contributes to Outcome 7, which seeks to create vibrant and equitable rural communities. The ANC supports this Budget Vote, Chairperson. I thank you. [Applause.].
Nb/NN (Xits)
Mr G A GROOTBOOM
Mr T MAKONDO
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 29
Mr G A GROOTBOOM: Good afternoon, hon Minister and Deputy Minister in her absence. I am proud to be able to stand here as a South African representing the rest of South Africa under the guise of the DA. Before I start with my speech, I want to honour artists like James Mathews, Richard Rive, Gibson Kente, Mongane Wally Serote, Bessie Head, Athol Fugard, Peter Clarke and others. These artists used arts and culture to unite the country through a shared cultural heritage, and they kept the fires of the struggle burning when there was a lack of transparency.
The objectives of this department is correctly chosen: nation-building and social cohesion. This is a mammoth task for a still racially divided country searching for that elusive yet attainable vision of our past President, Nelson Mandela. He saw this as his highest calling, encapsulated in the phrase of creating a rainbow nation and giving credence to what the Freedom Charter says: South Africa belongs to all who live in it.
But how do we achieve this togetherness and harness our collective energies, talents and creative geniuses? This department is enviably positioned to create a new cultural heritage and a new South African identity. However, poor financial planning is at the heart of this department's failures. This department, as other speakers have said, presented a budget of R3,5 billion. In their presentation, they planned to spend only 98% of the department's allocated funds. Hon Chair and hon Minister, this is the first time that I have ever heard of a government department planning to underspend..
An underspending of 2% may not seem much, but it represents underspending of R70 million. The R70 million could have gone a long way towards the implementation of the Mzansi Golden Economy strategy. The Mzansi Golden Economy strategy has been developed by this department to contribute to the national priorities of job creation and economic development. The DA fully supports this strategy as it could alleviate poverty through job creation and also broaden the arts sector.
Alternatively, the R70 million could have been used towards the establishment of provincial arts and culture structures in provinces like Limpopo and the Eastern Cape, which do not have such structures. Also, this could have led to the creation of permanent jobs and, of course, decent jobs within the sector. The portfolio committee must urge the department to utilise all its allocated funds through proper planning, or must we question whether this money will be channelled to unfunded mandates? Hon Minister, I sincerely hope not.
Another key objective of this department is to create a South African cultural heritage. In order to achieve this, it is important that we debunk the myth that one party can drive the heritage agenda, because it only gives rise to ethnocentrism and the skewed belief that all other cultures should be subservient to the cultural aims of the ANC and their understanding of what should be developed and acknowledged. Ethnic nationalism, as driven by the apartheid architects, is now driven saliently by our present government. This will erode the gains of our freedom struggle. We have the vehicle to facilitate cultural harmony and rectify the historical cultural neglect caused by the ethnocentric policies of apartheid. This department is that vehicle. I trust that the Minister, as he said quite rightly, will ensure that racial harmony develops under his watch.
Culture, and specifically the Department of Arts and Culture, has become an instrument of the ANC and has been reduced to furthering the political culture of this organisation. The DA proposes a way out of this skewed perception of culture. The DA believes that we should protect and promote meaningful cultural, artistic and linguistic diversity, as enshrined in our Constitution, to recognise our diverse history. We must also focus on looking towards the future. As we say in the DA: We must honour our past, but own our future.
Arts and culture should therefore not be reduced to a project or programme, as is currently the case. Our national focus days should be focused on bringing the different communities together and uniting them around a common heritage. Different political parties should share these platforms and talk nation-building, not political strategies and good stories like a stuck record. It is only in this way that the words of Nelson Mandela can find resonance on the African continent and throughout the world:
Never, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land will again experience the oppression of one by another and suffer the indignity of being the skunk of the world.
[Interjections.]
Instead of only building the new, the old in our society should be restored and appreciated - society evolves, is ever changing and never stays the same. We can do that. We can create it when this department can make nation-building and social cohesion happen by uniting us in national action during the celebration of our national days, and I hear say that they are planning to do that.
This is the South Africa we should be striving for; this is the South Africa we should be working towards; this is the South Africa we can build through a common cultural heritage. To be truly South African and not debate, after more than 20 years, whether or not Die Stem should be sung alongside Nkosi Sikilel iAfrika. Reconciliation is a process which must continue today. We must not forget that as a nation.
Our President Nelson Mandela understood that to be truly South African meant to combine our cultures, to understand our collective heritage by merging the two nationally emotive anthems into one and, in such a way, to forge a new South African identity. Let us not succumb to the belief of Du Bois when he said that the problem of the 20th century was the colour line. We are a rainbow nation; now let us make that dream a reality. The open-opportunity society proposed by the DA binds the threads of the rainbow nation, as envisioned by our past President. I thank you. [Applause.]
NN
Mr J L MAHLANGU
Mr G A GROOTBOOM
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 30
IsiNdebele:
Nom J L MAHLANGU: Sihlalo, Ngqongqotjhe womNyango, malunga ahloniphekileko, nabantu boke abakhona lapha abathindene nomNyango wezobuKghwari namaSiko. Okokuthoma kuyangithabisa ukuzwa amalunga aphikisako adzubhula lokho ekhe kwakhulunywa barholi behlangano ye-ANC. [Iwahlo.] Lokho kutjho bona ihlangano le ye-ANC ayidosi phambili amalunga wabo kwaphela, kodwana idosa phambili woke umuntu.
Kodwana ngisesephezu kwaleyondaba fanele ngizame ngincede bona mhlambe amanye amalunga asafika ehlanganweni ye-DA. Ngomnyaka ihlangano ye-DA ithome ngawo umnyaka waka-1994, nakuvowutelwa uMongameli walokhiya uMandela ngo-1994, ngibo egade bamphikisa. Kunesikhathi salaphe idorobha nanyana isifunda sangapha ngeTjhingalanga Kapa khesaphathwa yihlangano ye-ANC, khekwafuneka bona kutjhentjhwe amabizo wentrada abizwe ngebizo lakaMandela, kwayiwa ekhotho bona balwisane nokobana kungani fanele abizwe ngebizo lakaMandela. Namhlanje bayeza lapha benza ngathi uMandela ngewabo. [Iwahlo.]
Mhlambe ke ngincede nalabo abangaziko bona kwenzekeni ekomidini. Sibenekomidi sihlangene kathathu. Amalunga la ahloniphekileko gade bathule ngathi bangesontweni. [Ihleko.] [Iwahlo.] Nabafika lapha izinto eziphakamiswe liqembu le-ANC ngizo abafuna bona babe bophambili ngazo. Njengendaba ye-2% kuhlekuhle iphakamiswe malunga we-ANC aze aletha nesisombululo sayo. Namhlanje bafuna ukukhamba phambili ngayo. Abanamahloni!
Akhenginitjele okhunye eningakwaziko nasifika emaphelelweni nakufanelwe bona kwamukele isabelomali, thina be-ANC siye sacabanga bona sijamele eqadi bona sibone bona kuzokwenzekani. Ilunga elihloniphekileko le-EFF, ngiyaphosisa, ubaba uRabutapi olilunga le-DA watjhukumisa wathi, "Njeke, siyatjhukumisa bona isabelomalesi samukelwe." [Ihleko.] Ilunga le-EFF lasikima lathi, "Ngiyasekela." [Ihleko.] [Iwahlo.]
English:
We are called "hon members" and this designation only applies to us in this House. We are called "honourable" because the South African community and the world accept that we are honourable people and that we are worth the title. This is an ethical matter. We cannot, as hon members, be dishonourable. If we are dishonourable, then we are not worth the title "honourable" and we have actually disappointed our voters. We would need to go back to the drawing board and revisit what we are saying, because we would not be worth the title "hon members".
Anyway, may I continue with my speech? Indeed, it is a ... [Interjections.]
Ms S H BOSHOFF: Chair, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary to cast aspersions on the honourable status of members? [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order! The speaker was just making a general remark. But we caution the speaker to be moderate when referring to hon members. Could you continue, hon Mahlangu.
Mr J L MAHLANGU: Chair, I will refer to hon members and indeed say that if they are behaving honourably, they are worth the title. If I do not behave honourably, I am not worth the title. It is not just about you; it is about all of us as Members of Parliament. [Applause.]
Indeed, I am happy to participate in this debate. From the outset, I must indicate that the ANC supports this Budget Vote. There is no better time and opportunity for us to debate the Budget Vote of the Department of Arts and Culture than the day before we celebrate Nelson Mandela International Day, which is 18 July. We will remember President Mandela as a disciplined member of the ANC. We will remember him as the President who was the leader of the struggle against oppression and for the liberation of South Africa. We will know him as a symbol of unity. We will know him as a person who was committed to nonracialism and nonsexism. We will know him as a global peacemaker.
Sadly, as we celebrate his day tomorrow, several innocent people - children and women - have been killed up north, where some of the parties received their financial support, leading to the crossing over of leaders. We cannot agree more with President Jacob Zuma when he makes the point that with so many international bodies, whose roles and responsibilities are to deal with world problems and conflict, how can we allow such horrible killings? Now, these are ANC leaders. How can we allow this? We are equally responsible because we belong to world bodies, but we continue to see people die. He takes responsibility as an ANC leader, a leader in South Africa, far from Israel. That is leadership.
In 1955, our people converged in Kliptown to adopt the Freedom Charter. They said:
There shall be equal status in the bodies of state, in the courts and in the schools for all national groups and races;
All people shall have equal rights to use their own languages, and to develop their own folk ...
This statement was confirmed by the elected representatives of the peoples of our country when they adopted the Constitution in 1996. Sections 30 and 31 of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution speak to this matter.
The Minister has a huge responsibility resting on his shoulders. His role is to ensure that we celebrate our collective heritage and promote the diverse cultures. Indeed, the ANC is a living heritage, having celebrated its centenary in 2012. We therefore have a responsibility to protect and preserve it and its culture. The centenary of the ANC was not only celebrated in South Africa, but also celebrated continentally and internationally. Even the United Nations celebrated the ANC centenary.
Our heritage, as all of us should know, binds us together. I would like to cite a leader, Martin Luther King, Jr, who made the point that we have a responsibility as a people to live together as brothers and sisters, or perish together as fools.
The statement made by my colleague earlier about the child who could not play with other children because he was not properly socialised is a very important one. This matter speaks exactly to who we are as South Africans.
Comrade Minister, we remain a divided society. We remain a terribly divided society. We are divided racially, socially and economically. Your department has a responsibility - and it has the propensity - to deal with our divisions. I was hoping that this debate would be very sombre in which people mobilised their parties and society behind unity and social cohesion.
Remember, we inform the country. As a collective, we have a responsibility to lead this country. We cannot be led by society. We are leading society. Society has elected 460 Members of Parliament to lead them. Our responsibility is to lead that society. But if we send out the wrong signals to that society, then we are dividing our society.
I have observed that we are always very good when we hold our meetings where there are no cameras. But, once we see a camera ... [Laughter.] Yoh!
Indeed, the ANC called upon us as South Africans to honour and celebrate our collective heritage and to promote our diverse culture. This is in no way a measure to perpetuate division, but to celebrate an inclusive community, boost national pride and optimism, hence the rainbow nation, which President Mandela and Bishop Tutu spoke about. As South Africans, we have a rich and diverse history and the strength of our nation lies in our history.
When we adopted the Constitution of this country, part of what is in our Constitution is a diverse history, which is now our heritage, inspired by the motto of the South African Constitution which says: "!ke e: /xarra //ke", meaning diverse people unite. I may be wrong in how I have pronounced it, but you will pardon me. The richness of this heritage is also reflected in the diversity of our languages, including the languages of the Khoi, the San, the Bushman and the Griquas.
Our culture is what keeps our communities together. This is our language, our social habits, our music, our cumulative deposits of knowledge, experience, beliefs, values, attitudes and identity. We need to celebrate our South African culture because that is where our strength lies.
As we were approaching the World Cup, South Africa was receiving a lot of bad publicity and the bad publicity was coming from ourselves. When the foreign media landed in South Africa, they were the first people to tell a good story and the rest of the South African media followed. I guess I had to believe that we had already laid a very good foundation during the World Cup to move forward. Nevertheless, it is sad that we have reverted. All we know is to criticise and find fault with the governing party about everything, even when there is nothing. When we find an opportunity, we use it to cast aspersions. I
Indeed, the ANC has committed itself to ensuring that we develop the languages of the Khoi, Bushman and Griquas. And I am happy that the department has started with the programme of achieving exactly that.
We are happy with the announcement by the Minister that several of our heroes will be repatriated back to South Africa and that we are going to build new heritage sites and new monuments.
It is very sad that South Africa was involved in what has been called the Anglo-Boer War. I am happy that the department is working on this matter – the African War. Several Africans perished during this war, but not a single African name appears on the monuments that were built. In the concentration camps, you only hear of white children and white women who died. But we are told that black women and black children also died, so there is no recognition.
These things are facing our country, and your department, hon Minister, has the responsibility to ensure that these unknown heroes and people of our country are recognised. Going forward, people may believe that this country only started when Mandela was born - that there was never a black person in South Africa before that time. This is because nothing recognises Africans. The only recognition you find has to do with those who were royalty, and I want to believe that your department and its entities are up to the task of ensuring that our country finally find its footing.
With these words, we would like to thank you for the opportunity to participate in this debate and to restate our support as the ANC for this budget. I thank you. [Applause.]
END OF TAKE
AZM MNGUNI/Eng & Isin/src(ch)
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
Mr J L MAHLANGU
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Thursday, 17 July 2014 Take: 31
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Chair, I would like to thank the hon members for their contribution to this very important debate and a very important department, which is primarily responsible for the task of uniting and building our nation. As we are here today, if I may just say so, some of the people here are wearing clothes which are the handiwork of some up-and-coming people. In that sector, particularly, they have had international exposure in Europe and the USA, and so on. So, government will continue with this task of ensuring that even someone from our communities finds an opportunity for his or her work to gain exposure.
We agree with the chairperson's input about being proud of and developing our languages even further, because that is what we are all supposed to be doing. I also take the point that you are making in that you, as this portfolio committee, are going to be supporting the department, and, at the same time, are going to be able to give pointers where you think things need to be done. I think that should be accepted.
Hon Rabotapi, perhaps you could try to follow the processes of the reviewing of the White Paper, because the point that you are raising, particularly on integrating the entire portfolio in arts, culture, and all those matters, is something that is being done. Your input would also be welcomed, in that regard.
I'm also pleased to be making a proposal about the provincial festivals. Safe to say, you are on track on that, because, you see, this is what the department has been doing for some years. Some of the provincial festivals are successful; others are not. It is a good idea, and you will see that as you move closer to the department.
Hon Matshobeni, on the points you made for not supporting the Budget Vote, you mention the post of the CFO, which has to be filled. I will tell you here that that process is under way and the post is going to be filled. On the issue of libraries in local communities, the Deputy Minister referred to it. We were saying that we would fight very hard to see to it that local content support happened. That leaves you with no reason not to support the Budget Vote! [Laughter.]
IsiZulu:
Mhlonishwa Mpontshane, siyakuzwa Sokwalisa ukuthi uthini, kodwa-ke njengoba nawe usho ukuthi ...
English:
... as you say, we have thousands and thousand of schools. We have 240 artists going to schools. This is a start. Surely, as time goes by, we will be able to meet what is required of us. It is quite important that we focus on this part of our work. We are working with Basic Education, of course, because we can't just go in there. It is important, as you say, and I know that this is the area you have been working in for a very long time.
Hon Makondo, on the documentation of the liberation struggle, we have just returned from a trip to France, where we righted some of the wrongs of the past. People, South Africans, fought side by side in the First World War. When the time came for them to be buried, they were buried separately, because those in power at the time said it must happen like that. So, we went to Paris to correct that – to take Africans and bury them together with the white South Africans. They were all South Africans, and they remain South Africans, even in death. [Applause.]
Work is ongoing in terms of clarifying some things that were said in a particular way, including what is called the Anglo-Boer War. This, essentially, was a South African war in the sense that Africans were part and parcel of that war. They suffered, like anybody else did. If you talk about concentration camps, you'll talk about 26 000 Afrikaners who were put there – but you will also talk about 21 000 Africans. So, there is no way that this was Anglo-Boer. Africans were there and they have to be recognised.
We are not going to do away with the old symbols. We are a nation in healing. There is no way that we would say that we would do away with what was there, now, because we are here, hon Mulder. What we will be doing is to complete the picture, so that, if you come to South Africa, you will get the South African picture – not a picture seen through the lenses of colonialism, but a picture from the people of South Africa, as a whole.
I was about to ... no, I am coming to you, actually ... I was about to really applaud what you were saying about languages, because we are still lagging behind on languages and on developing the 11. However, there are also other, unofficial languages, like Nama, isiMpondo – you can name them – but, you see, when you said "Afrikaans" ... Had you said there is a problem that we need to deal with, someone would have argued that, in the South African context, Afrikaans and English have been given more recognition, or what have you. Perhaps you compare English and Afrikaans – it's an old thing ...
DR P W A MULDER: Sir, I did not do that. I think you must look at the Hansard.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member!
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: No, no, no, no.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister, can you just give me a moment?
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: No. No. No. We need to ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister, just give me a moment, please. Hon member, if you want to raise a point, you will stand and ask to be recognised. After that, I will recognise you and I will give to the opportunity to stand on a point of order. You cannot simply grab the microphone and start talking. This is not an ordinary meeting that we are in.
Dr P W A MULDER: May I make a point of order, Sir?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is your point of order?
Dr P W A MULDER: My point of order is: I did not say what the Minister is saying now, and I would like him to check the Hansard and then respond to that, Sir.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, that is not a point of order. Hon Minister, would you continue?
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Alright, let me see what I heard you saying. I heard you talking about languages which need to be developed, and you mentioned Afrikaans. You did not mention Tshivenda; you did not mention Sesotho or Sepedi or Isindebele. So, next time, if you can find the time, just mention them, because, you see, they are part and parcel of what we are doing. We are building a nation, and all of us should make an effort to ensure that, indeed, we do just that.
I cannot agree with what the hon doctor was saying here about the ANC making arts and culture party-political. It is not correct. It is not true. Just look around. If the ANC were doing things the way you are suggesting, it would have come up with a hammer from 1994 and done away with all the symbols of the past, ensuring that, even when it mentioned people, it only mentioned ANC people. However, I can take you to different parts of the country ... in fact, we will take a heritage route with you one day, and see how we have evolved as a nation in ensuring that the cultures of everybody are recognised in our country. There is no way that we are not going to do that.
We will continue ensuring that we fight for reconciliation and we fight for nation-building. It is our task. All we would need is support from everybody else.
We will also ensure that South Africans know their identity – that of South Africanness. People must know how to sing the national anthem. I hope that all of you, hon members, know how to sing it. [Interjections.] That would be something else! People must know their flags. They must know all the symbols of democracy. In fact, it is not only about young people in schools, as the Deputy Minister was saying; it is also about adults. If we, as a nation, do not understand who we are or what our symbols are, it means we don't understand and we don't have an identity. Let's have one, as a nation.
Let us have suggestions, hon Mpontshane. If you say that national days are celebrated in a partisan way, let us make a suggestion as to how we commemorate national days in such a way that everyone comes to the party, not because we are going to speak, hon doctor - I'd just be there observing - but because all of us agree that this is our freedom. So, let's not be selective. Let's come together and correct whatever we think needs to be corrected to take South Africa forward.
In arts and culture, the emphasis for us would be the unlocking of economic potential. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 16:18.
/Robyn - English/
/Malungi – Isizulu/
TAKE ENDS AT 16:19
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