Hansard: EPC: Debate on Vote No 7 – Public Works
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 16 Jul 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 12
WEDNESDAY, 16 JULY 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Good Hope Chamber at 14:00.
House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
START OF DAY
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 12
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 7 – Public Works:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Chairperson, hon members of Cabinet and the MECs; hon chairperson and members of the portfolio committee; hon Members of Parliament, I greet you. Let me also recognise the presence here of the chairpersons and CEOs of the public entities and professional councils; members of the audit and risk management committee; the director-general and the senior management of the Department of Public Works, as well as the heads of provincial departments; representatives of the construction and property industries, as well as leaders of labour; participants from the Department of Public Works young professionals training scheme and the Expanded Public Works Programme; two pastors who are representing their churches: Pastor Mathebula of the Hope Restoration Church and Pastor Mahlangu of the Christian Church of Zion; members of my family, and particularly my wife; distinguished guests; ladies and gentlemen, welcome.
My Budget Vote input will seek to cover the following: to present the Budget Vote and commitments for 2014-15; to account for what we have done as a department over the last year – 2013-14; to provide a progress report to the House on the turnaround strategy for Public Works; and to briefly share with the House my vision for the next five years of this administration. To this end, a detailed account document will be distributed for the information of hon members. Today, the Deputy Minister, hon Jeremy Cronin, will report on the following areas, which he is driving: policy, legislation and the public entities, as well as the Expanded Public Works Programme.
In the time available, I will provide a strategic overview of where we are as a department. I will do so in two parts: firstly, to map out at a high level our vision and priorities for the next five years of this administration; and secondly, to provide a progress report on the turnaround strategy for the Department of Public Works.
On the turnaround strategy, during 2012, with the support of National Treasury, we have developed a seven-year plan to rebuild the Department of Public Works, DPW. The plan envisages three phases: Phase 1 is stabilisation, phase 2 is efficiency enhancement and phase 3 is sustainable development
Phase 1, the stabilisation phase, was necessitated by the poor performance of the DPW and the lack of adequate management and financial controls, culminating in eight years of adverse audit findings, as well as high levels of fraud and corruption. This was evidenced in the reports of the Public Protector and the Special Investigating Unit, SIU. We are two years into the seven-year plan and I can report that we have stabilised core business areas, leases, the immovable asset register and finances.
Regarding the lease review, with the National Treasury we have conducted an audit of 2 162 properties leased in from the private sector and we have introduced more robust systems to manage the leasing portfolio. The department has overhauled supply chain management processes in the leasing environment and negotiated a special dispensation with the National Treasury to fast-track the resigning of expired leases. As a result we were able to renegotiate leases downwards in 50% of the cases. The Treasury dispensation places a 5,5% ceiling on the escalation of the leases below inflation, with further savings to the state.
The audit also highlighted leases where fraud and collusion were suspected - empty buildings that we were paying for. These have been flagged for forensic investigation. In the past, poor management in the leasing environment also resulted in contraventions of the Occupational Health and Safety Act. Inspections will now be prioritised on an annual basis.
Another area of stabilisation is the immovable asset register. Simply put, for the first time in the history of South Africa, Public Works has produced a reliable register of state properties, which is 95% complete. National Public Works accounts for 107 000 properties on some 30 000 land parcels. Of these assets, 95% have been physically verified. This is a game changer. We now have a much better idea of what we own and we can start to use this massive property portfolio to leverage economic development and job creation.
I need to mention that in cleaning up and developing the immovable asset register, as the department we have co-operated with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and the Surveyor-General. We have also worked closely with the provincial departments of public works, through Minmec, to assign custodianship of land parcels.
Regarding the clean audit project, the other major stabilisation project was to urgently stabilise the finance and supply chain management environment. For the 2012-13 financial year, the audit outcome of the department's main account improved from a disclaimed opinion to a qualified audit opinion. The qualifications that affected the department's main account were reduced from eight to three. The audit outcomes of the property management trade entity also improved considerably. Although the disclaimed opinion remained in 2012-13, the number of qualifications reduced from 12 to four. The team is committed and is expecting to further improve the audit outcomes for 2013-14.
The employment of the 64 unemployed commerce graduates as interns has been a success story of the clean audit project. They are now eligible to participate in the internal recruitment processes. A formal skills transfer programme and on-the-job training on the revised processes in finance and the supply chain management have been implemented to embed the stabilisation initiatives.
In relation to irregular expenditure, all transactions were revisited for the period 2009-10 to 2012-13. This exercise entailed trawling through 1,5 million payment batches and tender files. There are no short cuts, colleagues, to good governance and compliance. All irregular expenditure and fruitless and wasteful expenditure identified will be investigated and action will be taken.
I am very pleased to announce that compliance with the President's injunction to pay service providers within 30 days has greatly improved. This is a very obvious way in which government departments can support small and emerging businesses.
Regarding phase 2 of the turnaround, which is efficiency enhancement, this is where we seek to improve the business model and processes of the department. This will be the focus of the next five years. This involves the following critically important strategies and actions: The first is implementing a structure that aligns with the mandate of the department, principally the operationalisation of the Property Management Trade Entity in line with earlier Cabinet decisions to ring-fence and professionalise the property business. This massive property portfolio, which is seven times the size of Growthpoint, includes 73 000 properties used by government departments, and some 30 000 properties that are largely unused.
The priorities of the Property Management Trade Entity include: at a strategic level, to advertise and head-hunt property professionals from the private sector to be employed on performance-based contracts; to consolidate the improvement of the lease environment; to improve the maintenance and security of state assets through the national infrastructure maintenance strategy to establish the best practice and norms and standards for maintenance of state properties; to progressively reduce leasing-in in favour of rehabilitating our own stock for occupation by government - currently 2 700 buildings are leased-in at a cost of R3,2 billion; to work with the emerging black estate agents to market our unused stock and to manage the leases; to seek public-public partnerships with other entities already working in the property management space to develop state assets.
In relation to the PMTE and the management of state properties, the vision is to ring-fence, better manage, maintain and optimally use this state property portfolio to build value and to bring savings to the state, as well as other socioeconomic benefits – particularly job creation and empowerment while improving service to client departments.
The second focus of the organisational development in the department is to fully operationalise the governance risk and compliance branch to drive compliance and the antifraud and corruption campaigns.
In 2012, I announced that the turnaround strategy stood on two legs, namely improving the way we do business as the Department of Public Works and combatting fraud and corruption. In the stabilisation phase, we depended heavily on the expertise of the SIU to investigate fraud and corruption. Ninety-five cases were referred to the SIU for investigation, of which 75 have been finalised. This resulted in disciplinary action against 50 employees - 23 of which resigned before the commencement of the disciplinary hearing. Of the remaining 27, five received final written warnings, seven were dismissed and 15 cases are still pending.
Civil action has been instituted against employees and contractors in eight matters, mainly claims for damages or action to have voidable lease agreements set aside. For serious cases we will continue to use the SIU. However, the establishment of the Governance, Risk and Compliance Branch marks a milestone. This branch embeds capacity in-house to detect and prosecute wrongdoing and develop systems to quash opportunities for those who wish to engage in fraud and corruption. The branch is tackling a backlog of 250 internal cases reported since 2009-10. Of the 158 completed investigations, 93 disciplinary charges have been recommended and 15 criminal cases reported to the police. The GRC branch is also driving a proper process of strategic planning, incorporating risk management, performance management and process re-engineering. An important objective is to develop a new service delivery model in line with the Department of Public Service and Administration's requirements, which is based on the needs of client departments and enhancing the performance of the department.
In the construction project management environment, lack of planning over years has led to underspending on the budget, as well as cost overruns and delays on individual projects. This is being addressed through the greater co-ordination between branches and units along the construction value chain; the establishment of the joint technical teams to liaise directly with the client departments; and the introduction of a proper planning methodology in the form of an infrastructure delivery management system.
The department has also developed an information communications technology, ICT, plan to be implemented as part of the second phase of turnaround.
In the area of human resources management and organisational development, it is not enough to have a good plan. You also need the right people who are committed and willing to embrace change, together with the right mix of skills. At the executive committee level, the key management positions of the director-general, the chief financial officer and the deputy director-general: corporate services were filled. An acting deputy director-general was seconded from the State Security Agency to commission the newly established Governance, Risk and Compliance Branch.
We are addressing the lack of technical and professional capacity as follows: Insourcing skills during the stabilisation phase means the unnecessary spending on consultants will reduce as we build capacity in-house. Regarding recruiting, some 45 professional and technical positions have been filled to date. In developing our own skills, the department's school programme to improve maths and science teaching and learning supports learners from disadvantaged communities. Together with the Construction Education and Training Authority, Ceta, the department awarded 132 bursaries this year to students enrolled in the built environment in undergraduate and postgraduate programmes. We are growing our own skills. We are tying those students in so that when they graduate, they come back to Public Works. Currently there are 1 149 participants in the various training programmes of the department.
We are resuscitating the workshops to improve the quality of service to clients and to develop technical skills and capacity. In collaboration with private sector companies, some 293 artisans are being trained by the department during 2014-15.
Regarding phase 3, which is sustainable development, this is where we fundamentally review the mandate, purpose and responsibilities of Public Works across the different spheres of government, culminating in a Public Works Act, something we do not have currently. You will hear about this from the Deputy Minister.
Let me summarise where we are with the turnaround strategy. As a matter of urgency, we are consolidating the stabilisation work. As the main focus of the next five years, we seek to enhance the efficiency of our current business operations, employing better planning, performance management and ICT solutions as our tools. Simultaneously, we are embarking on a fundamental policy review, culminating in a Public Works Act to refresh and clarify the mandate of Public Works and to establish a platform for sustainable development.
Regarding specialised services, let me address some of the specialised services provided by Public Works. As far as the Prestige Portfolio is concerned, the Prestige Property Management Unit is now centralised in the director-general's office and is undergoing restructuring with a view to greater specialisation. The key here is to improve the management of customer relations and communication with departments and individual clients.
The following actions have been taken in respect of the parliamentary villages: We have revived the Parliamentary Villages Management Board. The initial phase of the renovations in the parliamentary villages was completed during May and June. The second phase will start during the recess period in September. We have identified furniture that needs to be replaced, and these are being delivered. Upgrading of the security system is under way. A development plan has been drafted and will be put to the Parliamentary Villages Management Board for consultation and implementation.
In respect of the official accommodation of Ministers and Deputy Ministers, I requested the SIU to investigate all the prestige projects involving excessive cost escalations. As a result, the director of the Prestige Portfolio in Pretoria was charged and dismissed. In the case of Cape Town, we will report to Parliament once the SIU completes its investigation. Costs for renovation of state-owned houses have now been capped at 30% of the market value of the property.
The Inner City Regeneration Branch is soon to be renamed Spatial Planning and Development. It has broadened its scope to include metros other than Tshwane, as well as towns, districts and small rural towns. This also supports the broader outcomes of rural development and improved local government and gives impetus to the impending Integrated Urban Development Framework announced by the President.
In the provision of state land, assets are held by Public Works in support of the service delivery obligations of the government and other social imperatives, such as land reform and habitable human settlements. During 2013-14, 128 ha were approved for release for human settlements. A further 22 properties were identified for release in the current year for human settlement.
Other programmes include the accessibility programme.
In summary, let me indicate that there are five key areas in this policy statement. These are the creation of 6 million work opportunities; the operationalisation of the Property Management Trading Entity; the operationalisation of the Governance, Risk and Compliance Branch; and, in consultation with all stakeholders, particularly the wider Public Works family in the provinces, a policy review culminating in the Act that I was talking about. In partnership with our entities, the charter councils and relevant stakeholders, there will also be a renewed and sustained programme of action to transform the built environment, especially the construction and the property sectors - which are still old boys' clubs - as part of the second, more radical phase of the transition to democracy. This must include support for black and female contractors and property practitioners, as well as the production of black professionals and artisans in the built environment.
To conclude, in my 2012 Budget Vote, I likened the Department of Public Works to a patient in the intensive care unit. In 2013, with some improvement, I said we had now stopped the bleeding and the patient was being stabilised. Today, in 2014, I can inform hon members that the patient is fully stabilised and responding well to medication. We confidently expect that the patient will be discharged in the very near future. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B A D MARTINS
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 13
Mr B A D MARTINS: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister of Public Works and Deputy Minister of Public works and other Ministers present, hon members, esteemed members of the executive councils, valued Director-General and senior officials of the Department of Public Works, esteemed guests, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. I would like to thank all those who congratulated me on my deployment as the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Public Works.
I would also like to reassure all those who expressed concern at the image of the Department of Public Works as a department plagued by instances of corruption and mismanagement. I would like to assure them that the Minister, the Deputy Minister and the Director–General assured the portfolio committee on 8 July 2014 that they remained committed to the robust implementation of the department's turnaround strategy.
The turnaround strategy includes the stabilisation of the department by ensuring proper controls and systems, strengthening the internal audit unit and addressing weaknesses in procurement and supply chain management. Furthermore, the Ministry and the department have worked closely with the Special Investigating Unit to investigate irregular leases and projects. This joint effort has to date resulted in disciplinary hearings, as well as the suspension and dismissal of some officials. Legal proceedings are also under way to recover monies wrongly paid by the department.
At the same meeting, the Portfolio Committee on Public Works committed to assist the department to fulfil its mandate and to improve on its service delivery record, on the basis of a critical and constructive oversight relationship. We do not underestimate the task at hand but believe that if the Ministry, the department and the portfolio committee can work together to achieve the common objective of service excellence, we will be equal to the task.
The Portfolio Committee on Public Works has the responsibility vested in it by the Rules of Parliament and the Constitution of the Republic of SA to oversee the Ministry, the Department of Public Works and the entities that fall under the remit of the department, namely Agrément SA, the Construction Industry Development Board, the Council for the Built Environment and the Independent Development Trust.
The department in its turn is mandated to provide land and accommodation to national government departments and institutions. It is further mandated to manage such land and accommodation, as well as to act as the custodian of the national government's immovable assets.
The department also has the responsibility to provide strategic leadership to the construction and property industries and to co-ordinate the implementation of the Expanded Public Works Programme. The Minister of Public Works is further authorised to carry out functions related to land and accommodation through the State Land Disposal Act, Act 48 of 1961.
The portfolio committee, in its turn, has the added responsibility to exercise a monitoring role that contributes to the improvement of the quality of life of all South Africans, to facilitate interdepartmental and intergovernmental relations at all levels of government; and also to acquire knowledge from international best practice in order to improve service delivery to South Africans.
The budget allocation to the department for the 2014 financial year is R6,1 billion. The four entities reporting to the department serve as its extensions and assist it in delivering on its stated mandate. There are no budget allocation increases to the baseline between the 2014-15 and 2015-16 financial years. The allocation increase to the baseline for 2016-17 amounts to R159 million in support of the following areas: R74 million for the Extended Public Works Programme's social sector grant; R65 million for the EPWP nonstate grant; R10 million for the EPWP Integrated Grant to provinces; and R10 million for the EPWP Integrated Grant to municipalities.
Over the 2014 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period, baseline reductions of R1,3 billion have been effected in the following areas: R650 million on infrastructure projects in the Immovable Asset Management programme; R150 million on noncore goods and services items in all programmes; R26,2 million on compensation of employees; R150 million on transfers to the Property Management Trading Entity, and R308,3 million on the EPWP. These reductions are largely a result of underspending in the department's infrastructure budget.
Spending on infrastructure decreased from R1,3 billion in 2010-11 to R676 million in 2013-14. The decrease of the infrastructure budget was due to the reprioritisation of funds to provide funding for the turnaround programme.
The department's overall infrastructure budget has been reduced by R220 million in 2014-15 and R180 million in 2015- 16. It will be decreased by R250 million in 2016-17, mainly to provide for reductions to expenditure that Cabinet approved.
In the immediate future, the nub of the issue will lie in how the department will deal with the issues raised in the Auditor-General's report. The report highlighted a number of issues regarding the financial performance of the department and the Property Management Entity for the 2012-13 financial year.
The department received a qualified audit opinion for the 2012-13 financial year. It will thus be prudent for the department to address the issues raised, such as the following: The Auditor-General was unable to determine whether the department implemented and maintained an appropriate provisioning system and if the award of R32,2 million followed supply chain management prescripts.
The department also materially underspent R489,4 million under Programme 2: Immovable Asset Management, which impacted on the meeting of its infrastructure delivery objective. The Auditor-General further noted challenges in the department's risk management, including the nonconsideration of information technology risks and fraud prevention.
The Internal Audit Unit was not adequately resourced to effectively identify internal control deficiencies nor make recommendations on corrective measures. There were allegations relating to transgressions in Supply Chain Management, potential fraud and financial misconduct, as well as a probe into the alleged abuse of urgent and emergency procurement procedures and the use of favoured suppliers. It is of grave concern that the Property Management Trading Entity has received a disclaimer of opinion for the third year in succession. This is simply not acceptable.
The Auditor-General noted that incomplete processes existed in the department for identifying and recognising all irregular expenditure incurred by the Property Management Trading Entity, hence the uncertainty relating to the disclosed irregular expenditure of R874,5 million. The aforesaid incomplete processes resulted in the Auditor-General being unable to determine if the Property Management Trading Entity implemented and maintained an appropriate system for identifying irregular expenditure. It is thus important to ensure that these issues are resolved to ensure that the department's main account receives an unqualified audit opinion in the 2014-15 financial year.
The portfolio committee has noted with appreciation that in drafting its strategic plan, the department has taken into consideration the government's policy priorities, the election manifesto of the ruling party, the ANC, the National Development Plan and the 2014 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework.
In its oversight of the implementation of the strategic plan, some of the critical areas that the portfolio committee will keep a close watch on are the following: the upscaling and implementation of Phase 2 of the Expanded Public Works Programme to create 6 million job opportunities through the Community Works Programme and the Expanded Public Works Programme by 2018-19; the increased contribution that the department has to make towards poverty alleviation through the provision of decent work and skills development, and its role in addressing youth unemployment through the National Youth Service Programme; infrastructure development and the school building programme under Strategic Integrated Programme 13, which focuses on the eradication of mud schools and unsafe structures.
The department reported that the Expanded Public Works Programme Phase 3 is on course and continues to create work opportunities for the unemployed, especially women, youth and people with disabilities. It was reported that this programme performed well in both Phase 1 and 2 of its roll-out.
Its stated objectives include the following: increasing the participation of the Department of Public Works in the implementation of the Expanded Public Works Programme by March 2015; ensuring that 3 500 young people participate in the National Youth Service Programme in the department; creating more than 1 million work opportunities for the 2014-15 financial year; and creating 140 000 EPWP work opportunities in provincial access roads projects.
The Ministry further reported that the department's turnaround strategy is on track. Evidence cited of this was the appointment of a permanent director-general; the reduction of the number of persons in acting positions and the employment of individuals with the requisite skills and qualifications; the fact that the prudent focus on the department's governance and supply chain management continues; and the fact that progress is being made on the finalisation of a reliable and accessible Immovable Asset Register.
The state land reconciliation with the Deeds Office records was completed by the end of the past financial year. The Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and of Human Settlements participated in the process of creating the Immovable Asset Register. Provinces also participated in this process.
In regard to the department's policy mandate and legislation, we note that the department derives its policy mandate from the following adopted and draft policies: the Department of Public Works White Papers of 1997 and 1999; the Construction and Property Sector Transformation Charters of 2006; the Department of Public Works Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Strategy of 2006; the Property Management Strategy on Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE, Job Creation and Poverty Alleviation of 2007 and the Green Building Framework.
The Portfolio Committee on Public Works will be ready to carry out its mandate regarding legislation when the department introduces the Expropriation Bill, the Built Environment Professions Bills and other Bills to Parliament. The role of the portfolio committee is not only to pilot and pass legislation through Parliament but also to track the impact of laws and regulations made and, where necessary and desirable, to deal with the unintended consequences that legislation may have through amendments.
In conclusion, the portfolio committee would like to recommend to the Ministry that the key performance areas, as stated in the department's annual performance plan, be redeveloped to be more specific, measurable and time-bound by March 2015. We also recommend that the review of the 1997 and 1999 White Papers be processed as speedily as possible so that legislation that outlines the department's mandate and its role as the regulator and catalyst of transformation in the build environment and construction industry can be completed by the end of the current financial year.
The ANC supports the department's budget. I thank you, hon Chairperson. [Applause.]
Mr K S MUBU
Mr B A D MARTINS
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 14
Mr K S MUBU: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers, heads of stakeholder organisations, MECs, Members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, the Department of Public Works probably ranks as number one among government departments with the worst public image and poorest public perception in the country.
In his opening remarks after he was elected as chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Public Works, the hon Ben Martins said and observed that the department was really sick and needed urgent attention, much like the Department of Home Affairs was several years ago before it was turned around. Hon Martins referred to the Department of Home Affairs before it was turned around as "the department of horror affairs".
Minister Nxesi, your department also has nicknames. One of them is "the department of Nkandla", which you also know, and the other one is "the department of public jokes" because of the many jokes around this department.
This department is crucial in this post-apartheid period because it is a custodian of public assets comprising immovable property, land and other assets. The department holds these in stewardship on behalf of the people of this country. It is therefore important that the department carries out its mandate in an efficient, effective and transparent manner, as expressed in its vision, which states that it is committed to being "a service-oriented department that delivers value and contributes to the national agenda for social and economic development".
Hon Minister, when you were appointed to this department, you made an effort to present a turnaround strategy that would transform the department into an efficient, effective and transparent entity of government. However, Minister, your strategy failed to clearly outline how the turnaround strategy would be implemented. Your strategy also did not spell out how the compilation of an asset register of publicly owned infrastructure would be completed.
It is the DA's view, therefore, that the department has made little progress in taking practical steps to restore stability. This is an indication of the lack of decisive leadership, direction and implementation in the department.
The Auditor-General's report for 2012-13 revealed the dysfunctional state of Minister Nxesi's department. The department was awarded a disclaimer of opinion, which is the worst possible audit outcome in an audit exercise, particularly for the Property Management Trading Entity for the third year in a row. This means that for three years, the department rendered its main function, which is the management of government-owned property, impossible to audit.
The Auditor-General also awarded the department with a qualified audit opinion for, among others, a lack of evidence for reported irregular expenditure amounting to more than R32 million. Furthermore, the Auditor-General also stated that the department could not provide sufficient evidence to determine whether the more than R2,6 billion in irregular expenditure reported by the PMTE was valid, accurate, or even complete. The Minister thus clearly failed to rehabilitate this entity.
Perhaps the biggest failure of the Minister in 2013 was his handling of the "Nkandlagate" scandal. He, along with the other so-called Security Cluster Ministers devoted much time to trying to justify the obscene expenditure of over R245 million of public money on the President's private homestead under the pretext that they were upgrading security features of this compound.
The Minister, according to the Public Protector, went so far as to provide incorrect information on the legal authority for and the extent of the work at the President's private residence. The Minister also used excuse after excuse to delay making public what ended up being a whitewash task team report on Nkandla. We discovered, through court papers, that there was never any real basis for classifying this document as top secret. We demand an explanation from the Minister on why he did this in the first place.
The DA is determined to ensure that the ad hoc committee to consider the Nkandla report is re-established as soon as possible. We simply cannot allow a situation where the President or the Minister and his Cabinet avoid answering very serious questions about their involvement in what is by far one of the greatest scandals of our democracy.
Hon members, questions also remain regarding the spending of the taxpayer's money on the upgrading of ministerial houses. For example, Minister, recently, when we posed a parliamentary question to you, you refused to provide answers in the form of a breakdown of the public money spent on 35 ministerial homes.
The Minister claims that such details would compromise security. This is nothing but an excuse to effectively limit proper oversight by Members of Parliament. Just last year, without citing any such concerns, the Minister revealed that: R15 million was spent on a house in Cape Town for the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform, Gugile Nkwinti; R10,67 million was spent on the overhaul of a house earmarked for use by the then Deputy Minister of Transport, Lydia Chikunga; ... [Interjections.] ... and just under R5 million was spent on upgrades to a house for the then Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Tina Joemat-Pettersson.
We will continue to do everything possible to shed light on this politically motivated spend - we have already successfully done this before. Perhaps the Minister could also use this opportunity to provide us with the answers that he would not provide us in writing when we asked for them.
Chairperson, hon members, the NDP has been lauded as providing the shared strategic vision for unlocking South Africa's potential and competitiveness in the global scheme of things. The question that I want to ask is: What role does the Department of Public Works play in the implementation of the NDP? There are at least nine chapters in the NDP that reflect on how the department can contribute to the successful implementation of this important road map to South Africa's economic success.
For example, chapter three talks about providing decent employment through inclusive economic growth. In this regard, the NDP places strong demand on the department to move away from providing only "work opportunities" to "full-time equivalent jobs" by the year 2020.
With regard to education, training and innovation, the department's programmes could be integrated with other government programmes like adult basic education, further education and training, skills development, artisan training and so on.
The DA supports the NDP as it dovetails with our party's Plan for Growth and Jobs, which was published in 2012 and presented the backbone of the DA's plan to reform the South African economy by giving those who had been left out of the economy a chance to participate in the economy.
The DA believes that, with the right combination of policies, the economy can grow at least by 8% and, in turn, create up to 6 million real jobs by 2025. If the economy were to grow by 8%, we could double the national budget, meaning that there would be more money for things like housing, basic services, education, infrastructure and small business support.
It is common knowledge that President Zuma and his ANC-led government have not delivered on their promises. The President promised to create 5 million more jobs, but poor leadership of the economy has meant that since he assumed the Presidency in 2009, only 439 000 jobs have been created while more and more people are out of employment. At the same period, unemployment has increased from 30,4% to 35%. In terms of the expanded definition, that includes discouraged job seekers.
In his state of the nation address, the President referred to some far-reaching interventions that his government would undertake to stimulate the economy, including the implementation of the NDP in order to address the triple challenge. However, what the President didn't mention is that the full implementation of the NDP will be almost impossible because it is frustrated by some of the alliance partners, Cosatu and the Communist Party - which I can see is heavily represented here - who have expressed disagreement with the market-driven rationale of the NDP.
The department plans to value a total of 113 742 immovable assets in 11 regions during the 2014-15 financial year. [Interjections.] The question I would like to pose to the hon Minister is: How is he going to accomplish this, given the fact that over 500 positions are not filled in the department? Is there enough capacity in the programme to carry out this mammoth task?
Minister, the department's legislative mandate is primarily governed by the Immovable Asset Management Act of 2007 and a number of other pieces of legislation. The department therefore has no single law that specifies what its mandate is. It is therefore important that a single piece of legislation that encompasses all the other Acts is passed as soon as possible. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms N P SONTI
Mr K S MUBU
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 15
Ms N P SONTI: Ndiyawabulisa onke amalungu. [Greetings to all members.] Hon Chairperson, the EFF does not agree with Budget Vote 7, because we believe that Public Works does not have systems in place to monitor the finances it received from the National Treasury.
Just recently, Public Works failed dismally to account for money that was used to upgrade the private residence of President Jacob Zuma. The EFF and the majority of South Africans do not trust Public Works simply because it is not a reliable and trustworthy department.
Now, the only thing that the EFF could potentially support in the Department of Public Works is the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP. We can support the EPWP if the following is achieved: Firstly, all people who are employed in the EPWP should be employed on a full-time basis and should be paid a minimum wage of R4 500. Secondly, all people who are employed through the EPWP should be linked to a training programme that will make sure that they have good skills for good jobs and lives. Thirdly, the EPWP should be directed towards the building and maintenance of township and rural infrastructure such as roads, community parks, dams and other basic services.
We believe that once these aspects are addressed, we will build a society of people who work for a particular purpose and a proper salary. The second issue that we want to address is that Public Works should begin to build or buy its own facilities and buildings to house government offices. As things stand, government is housed by private companies and in most instances government pays more rent than is required.
The majority of - if not all - buildings used as police stations are owned by private companies and Public Works only pays rent to use police stations. What will happen if one day the private companies evict police stations from their private properties, because the private company wants to use the building for other purposes?
The EFF believes that government should build, buy and own all the offices that are used for government purposes. After buying, building and owning all the government buildings and offices on a permanent basis, it must not use labour brokers. The cleaners and security guards employed to clean and look after government buildings and offices should be employed on a permanent basis with proper wages. Outsourcing of these critical services compromises and undermines the workers, particularly the cleaners and security guards.
Government should begin to build capacity to perform its own functions. Moving forward, Public Works should do the following: Establish a state construction company to build all government infrastructure because private companies fix prices and are paid more than they deserve. In this way, we would build capacity and not depend on private companies, which, in most instances, charge higher prices than normal.
Since 1994, this Parliament has not passed an Expropriation Bill, which is the responsibility of Public Works. Instead of focusing all their energy on the luxuries of politicians, Public Works should table the Expropriation Bill so that this Parliament can pass it into law.
The Constitution of South Africa requires that an Expropriation Act should be passed to empower the state to expropriate for public purposes and public interests. If the Expropriation Bill proposes expropriation without compensation, the EFF will support it and will even support constitutional amendments to effect constitutional changes. For now, the EFF does not support this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr K P SITHOLE
Ms N P SONTI
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 15
Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Chairperson, in opening I would like to thank the Minister for his excellent efforts in beginning to turn around this once failed department. This Minister inherited a department in total disarray. Mismanagement, corruption, cadre deployment and general incompetence were the order of the day.
In 15 years, mismanagement has entrenched the rot and it is testament to the character and tenacity of the Minister that his turnaround strategy is now bearing fruit. Well done, Minister and the director-general. The IFP welcomes the Minister's drive to assemble specially trained and dedicated civil servants and not cadre deployment, as happened before. However, many challenges remain.
The slow pace of the Special Investigating Unit in completing their report on fraud and corruption in the department is holding back the implementation of positive departmental change. The rot must first be cleared out before one can begin afresh. The 15 years of disclaimers by the Auditor-General are evidence of just how bad the departmental rot is and highlights the urgent necessity for a clean sweep of all that is wrong in the department.
The continued extensive use of consultants does not augur well for the establishment of a strong, loyal and dedicated corporate workforce or for a dedicated work ethic. We hope the Minister will be gradually phasing out this type of workforce. A department that does not know its own assets is a department that will never reach its goals. We call on the Minister urgently to place special emphasis on getting the department's asset register in order.
On 10 October 2013, the Minister requested the assistance of the Auditor-General in investigating reports relating to President Zuma's Nkandla homestead. These reports were then classified by the Minister as top security reports and were unavailable for public scrutiny. The Minister was protecting his President and when the Public Protector's report on Nkandla was released, the Minister was silent. This refusal to disclose and rather to classify the report, hon Minister, is a stain on your appointment and we accordingly call on you to release this report.
The EPWP is a programme that has merit and that we support, but it still fails to address the issue of unemployment because of its membership drive project. We also want to see decent and proper inner-city regeneration and we want to see this rolled out to all of our major cities, as you have said today.
Despite the above challenges, we hope to see this Minister and his department overcome. We are pleased to see a turnaround and new departmental culture developing. We look forward to watching it progress into a fully functioning department.
IsiZulu:
Egameni labantu baseNingizimu Afrika, Ngqongqoshe sifisa sengathi indlela osuyiqalile nendlela oyihambayo, njengoba inamaguludla namagquma, kodwa wenze okusemandleni ukuthi kuyasetshenziswana. Kunabantu abazohamba bahambe bacekele phansi umnyango ngesikhathi usuwuthathe wawubeka phezulu. Inkatha iyalisekela leli Voti. [Ihlombe.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 16
Mr SITHOLE K P
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister Nxesi, the Chair of the Portfolio Committee on Public Works, Ben Martins, Ministers and MECs who are present, chairs and leaders of the entities that fall under the Department of Public Works, hon members, particularly of the portfolio committee, colleagues and all guests, thank you very much for coming to the debate on this Budget Vote.
Hon Mubu … It seems he has left. The very statistics that he was supplying on the amount of public money that we spent on the homes of Ministers, the Presidency and so forth, are figures that he got from us. He is not getting this information from anywhere but the Department of Public Works. But when, in Questions, the DA asks us to also supply them with the home addresses of Ministers and Deputy Ministers, of judges and others, then we refuse to make that public. Let me remind the hon Mubu, in his absence, that Clive Derby-Lewis is sitting in prison as we speak because he was busy collecting the home addresses of prominent politicians. So, it is completely irresponsible to suggest that we should do this, or to say that we are withholding information that is of public interest. But anyway, let me move on from that.
Perhaps one of the best-known commitments made in the ANC's election manifesto is the commitment to create 6 million work opportunities through public employment programmes over the next five years. In some of the media comment, encouraged by some parties sitting on my left here, there is a whole lot of cynicism about this. First of all, it has been suggested that this is the only thing the ANC and ANC-led government have to say about employment creation. Nothing could be further from the truth.
There is a whole wide range of employment-creating programmes that are under way, led by this government and directed at the critical objective of overcoming unemployment. These include the re-industrialisation of our economy, the trillion rand infrastructure programme, local beneficiation of our natural resources, and using state procurement to ensure much greater localisation of things that we buy as the state.
Minister Nzimande will attest to this important emphasis on skills training for the productive economy. However, the Expanded Public Works Programme is a critical component of addressing this huge problem that we have, of unemployment, linked also to poverty and inequality.
The budget allocation to the Expanded Public Works programme in this budget of the Department of Public Works is the second-largest component of our budget. It amounts to close on R2 billion for this year. Most of it, I hasten to add, will be transferred to provinces and municipalities and also to the nonprofit sector, where the actual implementation of many of these programmes needs to happen.
Hon Mubu, I have read the National Development Plan. Hon Mubu is of course not listening, but that is okay. He will say that we are not answering his question but he is not listening. Chapter 3 of the National Development Plan absolutely and correctly envisages the huge upscaling of public employment programmes, specifically the Expanded Public Works and Community Work programmes. Yes, there are some cyclical features to unemployment in South Africa, not least at the present, following the 2008 … In my speech I have written "economic crisis", but let us give it its real name: capitalist economic global crisis.
Since 2008, there has obviously been an impact on our economy too - and that has impacted on employment. However, as the National Development Plan - which I have read, hon Mubu - correctly observes, even at the times when there has been sustained growth touching 5% and over 5%, through the second half of the 1990s and far into the 2000s, we failed to make a serious dent in our unemployment situation. We never came under 20% of unemployment, even in the narrow definition of unemployment.
So, clearly there is something systemic, something structural and, I would add, something capitalist - specifically capitalist in the South African reality – that, growth levels notwithstanding, is creating and reproducing the serious crisis of unemployment. Because our unemployment crisis is systemic, is structured, is hardwired into the way in which we are path dependent as an economy, our responses themselves have to be transformational. They have to be antisystemic. They have to be radical - radical in the real sense of the word. They must go to the roots of the problem.
An important part of a radical response is precisely the significant upscaling of our public employment programmes, notably the Expanded Public Works Programme and the Community Works Programme. But if the problem of unemployment is not just cyclical, then our approach to these programmes also cannot just be a question of temporary, "make work" arrangements while we complacently wait for some market-driven growth that will somehow serve up full employment in the relatively near or, for that matter, in any future.
So, the hon Sonti is absolutely right in many respects in the way in which she is seeking to support the Expanded Public Works Programme. We need to think about it differently from just that it is "make work" and temporary because somewhere in the near future the problems of unemployment are going to be solved.
The beginning of April this year marked the start of the third phase of the expanded five-year phase of the Expanded Public Works Programme. Back in 2003, in the midst of a decade of growth but with persisting crisis levels of unemployment, the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, convened the Growth and Development Summit. Many colleagues will remember that.
We said in that summit that business, the unions, government and the community sector agreed that we needed, among other things, a massive upscaling of public works programmes. That was the birth of the Expanded Public Works programme, and Phase 1 kicked off in 2004. It had a target in that first five-year period of 1 million work opportunities. And that target was achieved within four years - with a year to spare. In the second phase of the Expanded Public Works Programme, which ended at the end of March, so from 2009 to 2014, we surpassed the target of 4 million work opportunities. Those were achieved.
In some quarters these public employment programmes are viewed very sceptically. We are told that they are not "real work". We know which parties talk about them like that. They say these are just "work opportunities"; temporary "make work" arrangements.
The leader of the DA, Premier Helen Zille, led her party in a march on the ANC's headquarters in Luthuli House earlier this year, against the ANC's electoral commitment of 6 million work opportunities. The march counterposed - or sought to counterpose - EPWP jobs with so-called real jobs.
Now, what is a real job? You know, it is very ironic that the same party that argued against work opportunities in the Expanded Public Works Programme opposed any increase in the minimum wage for farm workers in 2013, arguing that such an increase was unaffordable. But the farm workers' minimum wage in 2013 was actually lower than the minimum wage declared for public employment EPWP participants. How very ironic is that!
What is more is that not only are those farm workers not permanent, but the majority of them, particularly here in the Western Cape, are temporary contract workers who are employed seasonally. So, what is the difference between your "real jobs" and EPWP jobs? [Interjections.] What is the difference? Is the difference the fact that farm workers get exploited by capitalist bosses and public employment employers by doing "useful work" creating assets and providing services to poor communities, as the hon Sonti correctly said we must be doing?
However, let me move away from party polemics and, as South Africans, let us take pride together, even those in the DA, in what we are doing as global innovators in the area of public employment programmes. You know, given that we have chronic unemployment now, not just in South Africa but in many developed parts of the world, in places like Spain and Greece the youth unemployment rates are actually even higher than our own crisis levels of youth unemployment.
Many of those counties are actually turning to South Africa to learn what it is that we are doing in terms of providing employment through these public employment programmes. In particular, the International Labour Organisation of the United Nations is following us, propagating and making proposals.
Now, cynics like the hon Mubu, of course, are downplaying what we are doing, and they fail to note the really important achievements. Perhaps it is our own failure as government that we are not sufficiently promoting and branding these achievements. Let me just mention a few.
First of all, there are many countries that now have public employment programmes of one kind or another. Typically, as far as we know, these programmes come from one department, with one line budget. In South Africa, every municipality is participating in this programme and each one has a budget. Every province is active, including the Western Cape. In some respects that province is doing well and we salute them for that. The City of Cape Town is doing very well and we are very proud of that. They are not doing as well as some other cities, but they are doing well! [Laughter.] [Interjections.] Most national line departments are also involved in the programme. So, that is unique. We cut across all spheres of government. We are using all or most of our budget to implement public employment programmes.
South Africa has been a global pioneer in terms of applying public employment programmes to environmental services, such as Working for Water, Working on Fire, Working for Wetlands, and so on.
The Working for Water programme has possibly saved as much as R400 billion worth of water in our country, according to a Council for Scientific and Industrial Research report. This is not recorded in the gross domestic product. We dig iron out of the ground - Kumba does it – and we export it out of the country as dirt. We count that as a contribution to the GDP, but the iron is gone! However, when we save R400 billion worth of water, we don't even count that in the GDP.
This is another aspect of what the hon Nzimande refers to as "capitalist accounting". Very often, real value is not counted in the GDP. So, the 8% of the GDP the DA is talking about is that kind of thing. Dig the stuff out of the ground, export it to China and count it as a plus to South Africa. But real services and assets, particularly for poor communities, are neglected.
The Working for Water programme has also cleared 2 million ha of alien invasive plants and prevented the loss of - we think - 71% of grazing in South Africa. None of that is recorded. In one budget year, 2007-08, Working on Fire saved the forestry industry R3,7 billion. I think it was in Mpumalanga where there were serious forest fires and they had a budget of R123 million. Again, the R123 million counted in GDP, but the saving of R3,7 billion did not feature.
In the social sector, South Africa is the only country in the world that implements a wide array of public employment programmes in the social sector, including adult education, early childhood care, school feeding schemes, and school safety and homework provision – there is a very nice programme in Gauteng, by the way. In the midst of the HIV/Aids epidemic, and at a time when there was some denialism, unfortunately, on the side of government, home-based care programmes, operating under the radar to some extent, was a critical life saver in providing survival prospects to poor communities affected by the epidemic.
I can go on. Of critical importance also is the fact that we – again, relatively uniquely in the world - are also involved in working very closely with the nonprofit sector through the community work and nonprofit organisation sector. We are working closely with NGOs and faith-based communities - and one is very pleased to note that there are two reverends in the audience, one from Thembisa and the other from KwaNdebele. We are working very closely with these community-based organisations and community leaders. This is an important counterweight against the dangers of excessive bureaucratisation, which tends to happen in any government, not just in South Africa but here as well.
Therefore, these public employment programmes also offer us an opportunity; a possibility of developing a different kind of relationship between government and communities to break away from this problematic notion of a delivery state, delivering to a kind of passive client, which is the communities.
This is where we are building again - hon Mubu – on the National Development Plan notion of an active citizenry. We are saying to communities, become collective coproducers, collective co-owners of community services and assets. Let us build them together. Let us maintain them together. Do not burn the library - own it. Do not burn the library - maintain it. Of course we are not renouncing our responsibilities as government, with our resources and budget. Let us do it together, instead of having this top-down, delivery state, delivering to a passive citizenry. This is a very important aspect of public employment programmes.
Now, there is much ... How much time do I have left? Is the clock counting down or up? [Interjections.] It is counting up. So, I have three, four minutes left. Okay, there are a number of lessons that we want to learn, going forward into phase three. One of them is very important to understand - and I am particularly looking at the hon Sonti again, because I was inspired by her passion, which we share, for these EPWP and public employment programmes. You are absolutely right to say this, but we need to understand that there are three kinds of priorities that we typically want with public employment programmes.
The first one is to provide basic income support to poor households as part of trying to complete an incomplete social security net. If you are over 18, but you are not a mother deserving of a child support grant, nor a retired person on an old age pension, then you are in a huge gap. You might be unemployed or underemployed, but you are not covered by the social security net.
So, these programmes are partly about completing the social security net. Again, hon Mubu, you will notice that Chapter 11 of the National Development Plan … [Interjections.] …- it is good that he has read Chapter 11 and I am pleased to hear that - sees these public employment programmes not as real jobs but as an important component of social security.
Secondly, there is the other important thing: What happens to the participants when the programme comes to an end? There is no reason why the programme should come to an end, by the away. Many programmes do not end. But when the project is in the construction area, for instance, as opposed to maintenance, then the foot bridge gets built, the clinic gets built, and what happens to the participants when the building work is done? You are right to ask what the graduation possibilities are. The bureaucratic language for this is "exit" but I prefer the term "graduation". What are the graduation possibilities for participants?
Thirdly, there are other important criteria. For example, as a result of these projects, is there a net improvement in the developmental reality of poor communities? [Interjections.] This is very hard because we do not have time. I am wrapping up. These things pull in different directions and it is not always possible to do all of them equally. When we discuss these issues in the portfolio committee, we will have more time.
So, in short, I did not have the time to talk about the other things that the Minister has committed me to, such as legislation and the entities. I apologise for that, but I am passionate about the public employment programmes, as you can hear.
Last November, Cabinet agreed to set up a Presidential Public Employment Co-ordinating Commission. This will be done so that we can properly co-ordinate our efforts in terms of these public employment programmes and link them to the training that we are doing through other line departments, as well as linking them to the Setas, and so forth.
Therefore, a huge chunk of this budget is going towards these programmes. This is an important contribution to realising the important target - which we are confident of meeting - of 6 million work opportunities over the next five years. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Mr M L FITANE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 17
Mr M L FILTANE: Chair, I shall start by rolling up instead of wrapping up! [Laughter.] Good afternoon, Chairperson and all Ministeries present. We are talking about a department that is charged with the responsibility, custodianship and management of government's immovable assets. On top of that, this department also has to reform and radically improve the construction sector of our economy.
It is against this background that we as the UDM are astounded when this very department is consistently surrounded by allegations of fraud and corruption, while being charged with the responsibility of taking care of the country's assets.
Furthermore, the staff members of the department are hardly sufficient to discharge the functions of the department. Consequently, the department continues to be the kind of failure that the Minister had the honour – if it was an honour – of admitting that it was indeed a department in crisis, or, as he says, it was in crisis. This staff inadequacy specifically has a negative impact on the service delivery of the department, resulting in disclaimers and financial mismanagement. Hence we have the turnaround strategy.
It is against this backdrop that the UDM suggests the following corrective measures – a blueprint, if you like: Critically important staff positions should be filled as a matter of urgency, otherwise the department will remain limping. The department should incentivise so that people will be attracted to work for it. Do not keep saying that the private sector is taking people away from you. That is not helpful. Create incentives. You need to have appropriate staff.
The following is a critical area: Some experienced building contractors were left out when the Construction Industry Development Board, the CIDB, was created. It was a cruel move and we are aware of that history. Consequently, those people are still suffering. They are an asset living within South Africa. They are crying out for an opportunity to be part of it and to play their role. The department is urged to reconvene another construction indaba to bring these people back into the fold. As a result of this great omission, the CIDB is just not serving the purpose for which it was established in the first place. As a result, the R827 billion set aside for this term will be pie in the sky for them. I am talking specifically about Africans.
IsiXhosa:
Aba baneziduko
English:
They have been left out of the equation. I want to stress that point. [Interjections.] I thank you.
Mr P J GROENEWALD
Mr M L FILTANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 17
Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, the hon Minister himself said that Public Works is a patient in the intensive care unit and that, at least, the bleeding has stopped and the patient has been stabilised. However, hon Minister, the patient is still in the ICU, and that is a problem.
A further problem is that the Minister, or the doctor himself, is also still in the ICU. He has a sickness that is called Nkandla-itis. He does not know what is going on. He has a fever. First it is a secret issue, then it is not a secret issue. So, Minister, you still have many problems to attend to when it comes to Public Works.
Afrikaans:
Ek wil vir die agb Adjunkminister Cronin sê hy het 'n baie ongelukkige voorbeeld gebruik om regverdiging te kry oor hoekom miljoene rande bestee moet word om Ministers in wonings te kry om hul veiligheid te waarborg. Die Adjunkminister gebruik Clive Derby-Lewis as sy voorbeeld. [Tussenwerpsels.] Nee, dit is nie nou daardie probleem nie. Kom laat ek vandag die volgende sê.
English:
This is 2014, not 1992. I can go onto Google Earth now and I will be able see the exact locations where all the Ministers or Deputy Ministers are staying. [Interjections.] Exactly! The problem is, you do not have to go around asking questions to determine an address.
Afrikaans:
Ek wil vandag vir u sê dat Openbare Werke veiligheid misbruik om belastingbetalers se geld te mors, nie vir veiligheid nie maar vir die luuksheid van Ministers en Adjunkministers se wonings en die opgradering daarvan.
Kom ek gee vir u 'n voorbeeld. Die vorige Adjunkminister van Landbou, Dr Pieter Mulder, het vir vyf jaar in Akasiapark gebly. Akasiapark is mos 'n sekuriteitsgebied. Dit is nou nie so luuks nie, maar hy het daar gebly en hy het niks oorgekom nie. Die gebied word gekontroleer en opgepas deur die polisie.
Hoekom moet daar 'n spesiale, afsonderlike plek wees vir Ministers en Adjunkministers? Hulle is ook immers lede van die Parlement. Hulle kan in die bestaande plekke bly en hulle kan net so veilig opgepas word - maar hulle gaan nie so luuks lewe nie. Hulle gaan nie dan op die vet van die land en op die belastingbetaler se geld kan teer nie.
So, om veiligheid te gebruik as 'n verskoning om miljoene rand te bestee aan die luuksheid waarin Ministers en Adjunkministers woon, is 'n mite. Dit is onaanvaarbaar - en dit is ook die probleem met Nkandla. Veiligheid word misbruik om swart ekonomiese bemagtiging die black enrichment elite [die swart verryking elite] te maak. Dít is die probleem. Ek dank u.
Rev K R J MESHOE
Mr P J GROENEWALD
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 17
Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson and hon members, for the current financial year, 2014-15, the Department of Public Works received R6,1 billion. Of this R6,1 billion, R245 million has been allocated to lease payments. The ACDP is concerned about money that is being wasted through unauthorised, wasteful and irregular expenditure, and the deviation from Treasury's regulations, particularly in the area of lease agreements and payments.
The laudable initiative of the Department of Public Works to review the validity and cost-effectiveness of all government property leases has exposed several deficiencies. These include: space that was unoccupied but paid for; space occupied by nongovernmental entities; discrepancies between the space occupied and what was paid for; marked divergences from market rates; procurement through inappropriate, noncompetitive procedures; missing or invalid lease agreements; and unsubstantiated payments to landlords.
Former Auditor-General Terence Nombembe criticised government and public servants over, and I quote:
… [the] dire situation that has seen a weakening of the pillars of governance protecting South African democracy. The accountability of the results is not taken as seriously as it should be. Bad results are regarded as a norm and when people get a disclaimer or qualified reports, little happens to them to show that this is unacceptable. That is the culture that we need to be concerned about.
In July last year, the Deputy Minister of Public Works, Jeremy Cronin, was widely reported as having said that the department was in a near dysfunctional state, because it lacked capacity. Due to this lack of capacity, a number of line departments had been inclined to try and set up mini departments of public works out of frustration.
An example of this lack of capacity is evident at Diepsloot Police Station, which has been standing incomplete, a white elephant, for many years. We are aware that in October last year, the department said it expected the police station to be completed by August 2014 - seven years after construction began.
The maintenance and construction of public infrastructure, such as clinics and schools, has been the department's biggest weakness over the years. The ACDP wants to know how the R6,1 billion will be used to address this weakness.
The ACDP would also like to know if the department has filled all the required, specialist-skills vacancies, which include chartered accountants, property lawyers, property evaluators and property managers, and when the highly anticipated Special Investigating Unit report into alleged irregularities in the procurement division of the Department of Public Works will be released.
Lastly, the ACDP welcomes the successful implementation of the turnaround strategy, which the Minister spoke about, and we hope that it is going to ensure that the patient, who is still in the ICU although he has stopped bleeding, will finally run and do the job. Thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 17
Rev K R J MESHOE
Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chair and Minister, allow me to observe protocol. The AIC regards Public Works as a very important arm of government in the fulfilment of its mission. This is why the AIC acknowledges the strategic plan and budget for this department.
We are doing so, knowing full well that one of the missions of the department is to create jobs and alleviate poverty through its Expanded Public Works Programme, the EPWP. We also need to bear in mind that when the EPWP was launched by the government in 2004, the aim was to halve unemployment and poverty by 2014. Has that been achieved?
However, the AIC feels that the creation of jobs and poverty alleviation should be coupled with more meaningful training; training that will enable people to work or create jobs, thereby reducing the high rate of unskilled workforce provided in the EPWP. The EPWP must not encourage unskilled and underpaid labour in our communities. I therefore appeal to the members of the Fifth Parliament and to those heading this department to create decent jobs for South Africans; jobs that conform to today's standard of living.
The AIC has noted that the number of jobs said to have been created in this programme does not reflect the actual current figure. That is, the number does not reflect the actual number of people working at present but rather the total number of people working, as well as those who once benefited from this programme. I am saying this because in most municipalities, the number of jobs created has dropped drastically, compared to what is was previously. The reason cited for this is the decrease in the budget for the EPWP.
We therefore cannot say that this programme can assist in achieving national goals, rather than creating a dependence syndrome among communities. As I already stated, the department should not only be proud of the number of people trained but also of the number of people who are working as a result of the training provided.
The AIC is therefore calling for the establishment of a dedicated unit to co-ordinate, monitor and evaluate the progress in the implementation of the department's EPWP. The reason that we ... [Time expired.]
Ms L N MJOBO
MR S M JAFTA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 18
Ms L N MJOBO: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon.
IsiZulu:
Ngomhlaka 7 kuNhlaba wezi-2014, abantu baseNingizimu Afrika abayizigidigidi eziyi-11 baphuma bayovotela i-ANC. Ngifuna ukubaqinisekisa ukuthi abalenzanga iphutha ngokwenza lokho.
English:
It is now widely accepted that the development and expansion of infrastructure is the key to the stimulation of economy, which is sorely needed in these tough economic times. While it is important to focus on the development of small contractors, particularly black contractors, it is even more crucial to focus on women in construction.
The construction business is a male-dominated industry and the majority of big contracts go to companies owned by white males. It cannot be right that 20 years after the installation of a democratic government, old ways of doing things are still being maintained.
There are about 12 000 commercially active construction companies in South Africa. The involvement of black people in the construction sector improved between 2012 and 2013, according to available reports. The Construction Sector Charter Council, CSCC, reports that in 2013, 65% of large companies achieved a broad-based black economic empowerment contributor status of between Level 1 to Level 4, compared to 60% in 2012. Level 1 represents the highest level of B-BBEE contributor on the B-BBEE scorecard, and this is what all companies should strive for.
Often you find that the companies that are owned by women are graded very low - below grade five, and they get the smallest jobs. These companies often do not have the funds to sustain operations and are also confronted by the challenges of getting paid on time. Therefore, their companies are set up to fail.
The key to addressing the imbalance in the construction industry is to promote the National Contractor Development Programme, NCDP. The NCDP is spearheaded by the Construction Industry Development Board, in partnership with the Department of Public Works. One of the important objectives of the NCDP is to increase the number of construction companies owned by black people, and by women in particular, as well as catering for the disabled and the youth in certain earmarked grades and categories.
Scorecards reflect an improvement in the area of black women ownership. In 2013, 20% of scorecards confirmed black women ownership exceeding 30%, compared to 19% in 2012. In January 2014, the President of the Republic of SA, the hon Jacob Zuma, signed the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Amendment Bill, B42 of 2012, into law. The law eventually made the construction sector codes obligatory for all companies involved in infrastructure delivery and other construction-related projects in all the spheres of government.
It is hoped that the legislation will provide a further drive towards transformation in the construction industry. One of the methods used to develop contractors is enterprise development. This is the method that targets contractors in the grades between Level 3 and Level 6. Here contractors are awarded contracts through the competitive bidding process, using appropriate procurement strategies within the competitive bidding environment. This is in keeping with B-BBEE legislation and the preferential procurement framework.
One of the key elements of contractor and skills development is mentorship. However, mentors are hard to come by, as these must be registered with the SA Council for Project and Construction Management Professions, SACPCMP, whose requirements for the registration of mentors have been impossibly high. This made it difficult for experienced candidates to qualify as mentors.
The challenge is that many of the professionals working in the construction industry do so without formal tertiary qualifications and professional registration. The SACPCMP recognised this challenge, hence they are in partnership with the University of Pretoria. They developed a training course for mentors and, once candidates pass the course and meet the necessary requirements, they will be able to register as mentors.
Through the Expanded Public Works Programme, the national Department of Public Works devised the Vuk'uphile Learnership Programme to assist emerging contractors. We need to stimulate economic activity in the most economically depressed areas and these are normally found in the rural areas. It is also here where one finds that the majority of the people living there are women, because the men usually migrate to urban areas to make a living.
Rural development and interdepartmental collaboration across all spheres of government are crucial to achieve development. The second aspect we must touch on in this Budget Vote is the role that this department must play to develop all trade artisans and strengthen the EPWP in its third phase. This is the phase in which the skills development part must be greatly improved. This skills development part can be greatly improved if the budget is improved and a linkage of co-operation can be initiated with the key skills development departments, such as the Department of Higher Education and Training and the Department of Labour. The trade union movement and private industry in the built environment sector have an important developmental role to play in this regard.
Collaboration and partnership form the cornerstone of the successful implementation of policy. Through partnership with the Construction Education and Training Authority, the department has managed to use the budget well and increased the number of participants in the artisan development programme to 229 in the current year. This successful pilot is part of a directorate in this department that is seldom spoken about. The department has a Human Capital Investment Directorate that is focused on implementing Chapter 9 of the National Development Plan to ensure a skilled and capable workforce that will support an inclusive growth path. It is ready to do this by working with the Department of Higher Education and Training and the Department of Labour.
The department brought in skilled graduate professionals through programmes such as the Young Professionals programme, internships, learnerships and the artisan development programmes. A total of 2 857 beneficiaries has participated in the department's skills development programme over the past five years, with 81 young professionals, 2 227 interns, 328 learners, 56 management trainees and 33 artisans trained. Also, 132 bursaries for studies in the built environment are being sponsored. These programmes go beyond providing bursaries to students and include comprehensive support programmes and experiential training opportunities. They also provide job opportunities for technical graduates.
The Young Professionals programme is a highly successful training and skills programme and has managed to register 52 young professionals, while 28 young professionals have been absorbed into vacant positions in the department. The portfolio committee was pleased to note that at the end of the last financial year, the Minister awarded 82 bursaries to students who are currently enrolled in courses that relate to the built environment.
In conclusion, hon Chair, ...
IsiZulu:
...ngaphambi kowe-1994, abantu besifazane babengakwazi ukuma phambi kwale Ndlu yesiShayamthetho, kodwa namuhla ngenxa ye-ANC siyakwazi ukuma. Ngakho-ke ngiyabaqinisekisa abantu baseNingizimu Afrika egameni le-ANC ukuthi yiyo kuphela ekwazi ukushintsha izimpilo zabantu. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.
Mr S J MASANGO
Ms L N MJOBO
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 19
IsiNdebele:
Nom S J MASANGO: Sihlalo, Ngqongqotjhe, Sekela-Ngqongqotjhe, amaLunga wePalamende, nawo woke umuntu okhona lapha, lotjhani.
English:
The DA does not determine the minimal wage for farm workers, but the Department of Labour - the Minister - does. So, if somebody is to be blamed, let it be the Minister of Labour and the ANC. [Applause.]
Today we are debating the Budget Vote of a department that is well known for all the wrong reasons. It is the department that is regarded as a milking cow for the tenderpreneurs of this world. It is a get-rich-quick scheme for high-profile officials and their connections. It also seems to be the come-and-go Ministry. In the past five years, this department has had three Ministers. Hon Minister, we welcome your turnaround strategy, as we did with your predecessors, who also committed to changing this department. We hope that this time, we will see a difference.
IsiNdebele:
Singaloku sigida ndawo yinye, kodwana asiyeni phambili.
English:
Minister, you have to deal with corruption in a hands-on manner in this department, without fear or favour. You must lead by example.
IsiNdebele:
Siyathokoza ngombana sele sizwile bona bakhona osele ubakhombe indlela. Kuhle lokho.
English:
This requires that you spend more time tackling the problems of this department and less time defending or protecting the President regarding Nkandla. That will be better. [Laughter.]
The President, in his state of the nation address, emphasised the construction of infrastructure as a priority for this new administration. If the government is committed to growing the economy, then infrastructure is crucial.
The high rate of unemployment in South Africa is unacceptable. Therefore, we need to grow the economy by 8% in order to create more jobs. Government failed to create the 5 million jobs promised by the President in 2009. Government cannot again fail the millions of unemployed people in South Africa this term. It is time to deliver and that time is now.
Infrastructure development is key to economic growth and job creation. However, the Department of Public Works has failed to spend its allocation for infrastructure in the 2012-13 financial year, thus slowing the pace of economic growth and denying many South Africans an opportunity to get a job. For failing to spend its infrastructure budget, the allocation for the infrastructure budget for this department has been reduced for the next financial year. It has been allocated to other programmes that are not actually creating jobs. This is another opportunity missed to grow the economy, create employment opportunities for young people and to lift the staggering percentage of our population who live in poverty out of poverty.
The Expanded Public Works Programme is a programme aimed at ensuring the creation of job opportunities and the provision of training for unskilled, marginalised and unemployed people. The EPWP projects cut across all spheres of government and some provinces and municipalities are still struggling to spend money on EPWP projects due to incapacity. The DA supports the EPWP work opportunities as they help in the alleviation of poverty in our country, but these cannot be regarded as real employment. They are temporary and unsustainable. EPWP work opportunities do not afford our people the financial growth they need to lift themselves out of poverty, which is the first step on the ladder to prosperity.
While we support the targets set for employment opportunities under the EPWP, we must be mindful of the quality of work rendered and of value for money. It is simply not enough to celebrate the achievements of reaching employment targets against the backdrop of poor service delivery and the regression of our economy. The EPWP should create work opportunities that will also grow the economy to create more real jobs.
My travels across the country have served me well in forming an opinion of EPWP workers, whom I constantly find either sitting alongside their respective places of work or, sadly, they are asleep. Despite the department saying they are monitoring these projects, there is never anyone supervising them. It is teatime the moment they arrive at work. After that, it is lunch time, until they go home. That is the biggest problem. This is a wasteful and fruitless expenditure, especially if we take into consideration the number of service delivery protests we have across the country.
I do not think that government wants to create another social grant - this time through the EPWP. Too many people are dependent on social grants. South Africans want a hand-up, not a hand-out. [Interjections.]
The same applies to the incentives that are being paid to the provinces and municipalities. The incentives must be paid on the basis of the projects that are in progress or have been completed and, most importantly, on the quality of work that was done - not only on the jobs that were created.
The EPWP projects are used by some officials and politicians as an opportunity to employ their relatives, connections or card-carrying members of the ruling party. This defeats the purpose of ensuring that the most vulnerable families actually get employed and are able to put a plate of food on the table. [Applause.]
Another problem in the EPWP is training. There are so many young people who have been on training for so many years and it just does not end. They will be taken from one area to another area, but nothing comes of it. Some months they will be idling at work, doing nothing except playing.
Some of those trainees have completed their training but cannot get employment in the private sector because their training certificates are not accredited. It does not make economic sense to train youngsters and, after completion of training, they join the rest of the unemployed youth and end up rusting at home again.
With regard to the Construction Industry Development Board and the Council for the Built Environment, I went through their strategic plans. Their objectives and targets are questionable. I am saying this because it is just the compilation of reports, reports and more reports, and noncompliance. You finally ask yourself...
IsiNdebele:
...abantu bazodla amaripoto nanyana bazodla ukuthobela.
English:
Sometimes I do not even understand "75% compliance" or "92% compliance". Either you comply or you do not comply. You cannot be 72% or 92% compliant. It does not make sense.
Until now, the CIDB has not done enough to grade contractors from grades between four and six to grades between seven and nine. Most of the contractors are still between grades two and six.
The same applies to the CBE. It also needs a clear vision, because transformation is just too slow from that department. Moreover, one wonders whether they are committed to ensuring that they go to universities to upgrade those people.
Fraud and corruption in the construction industry impacted negatively on contractors and collusion restricted new entrants and the upgrading of other companies.
Against the background of all the allegations of corruption levelled against the department, the Auditor-General's report for 2012-13 painted a disastrous picture of this department. Given the fact that there is a turnaround strategy in place, and hoping that the department is attending to the matters of emphasis raised by the Auditor-General, we await the annual report for 2013-14 to see if the department is moving in the right direction.
Hon Minister, government employs officials to do their job. It cannot be fair that the same officials now employ consultants to get their books in order. It is their job and they are paid to do that. We can only do better if every one of us does the work properly and to the best of his or her ability. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr F ADAMS
M S J MASANGO
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 20
Mr F ADAMS: Hon Chairperson, Minister Nxesi, Deputy Minister Cronin, other Ministers present, Minister Nhleko, Deputy Ministers, Minister Nzimande, Deputy Minister Manamela, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, I am not sure but I think Deputy Minister Cronin needs to give the hon Masango some lessons in economics, or teach him about compliance. If the member doesn't understand mathematics or percentages, hon Cronin, you need to get him to a politburo so that hon Nzimande can educate him. [Interjections.]
It is a pity, because the only thing that the opposition is talking about is Nkandla. It seems to me that the opposition suffers from "Nkandla-itus" or "Nkandla sickness", because that is the word that they cannot get out of their minds. They do not even have a plan or strategy – an alternative plan, given that they are the opposition. No, that is the only thing they can talk about. They do not talk about Filcon Projects.
Afrikaans:
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Voorsitter, op 'n punt van orde: Ek wil weet of dit toelaatbaar is dat die agb lid my woorde gebruik en maak asof hy dit uitgevind het? [Gelag.]
Mnr F ADAMS: Voorsitter, die agb lid het so gesukkel om die woorde uit te spreek dat ek nie seker was of hy geweet het of dit sy eie woorde was of nie. Hy het gesukkel om dit uit te spreek.
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Jy het 'n gehoorprobleem!
English:
Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, the opposition is talking about corruption, but we do not hear a thing about the corruption in their backyard, in the Western Cape, of nearly R400 million relating to Filcon. They say R400 million is nothing, Minister Nzimande.
If projects worth R400 million is being stopped and you say that is nothing, I wonder what you mean when you say that in terms of corruption this is nothing. They say Filcon is a reputable company that just ran into cash-flow problems. That is their excuse.
Now, what about those schools and houses that have not been built? Are you saying this is nothing, hon Mubu? My point is that when it comes to the DA, the meaning of corruption is not understood. They say a reputable company ran into cash-flow problems. A member of the DA says, no, R400 million is not even equivalent to the value of Nkandla - which is not even what we can afford to build. How many Nkandlas do you want us to build for R400 million? [Laughter.] Come on! How can you say this is nothing? [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon member, let us allow hon Adams to speak.
Mr F ADAMS: And you say it is nothing? [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order! Hon members, allow the speaker to be heard.
Mr F ADAMS: They talk about consultants. How many millions have they spent on consultants since they took over in 2009? This is because they know for a fact that if they do not use consultants, Madam Zille will call them to come and report at 7 Wale Street, Leeuwenhof, at 4 o'clock in the morning. [Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): No, hon members, let us allow hon Steenhuisen to speak.
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Chairperson, on a point of order: There is no member who is called Madam Zille. We have had a ruling on this matter in this House before. It is Premier Zille. That is the ruling that we have had on premiers in the past. Thank you.
Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, the premier is not a member of the National Assembly, but a member of the NCOP. So, in terms of the Rules, she is not a member of this House. She is not a Member of Parliament, but a member of the NCOP - a special delegate. I think the hon member must go and learn the Rules of Parliament as well. Jim Rohn says, and I quote: ... [Interjections.]
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Chairperson, on a point of order: There has been a ruling in this House before that when we refer to premiers of provinces – this includes ANC premiers – they must be referred to by their titles as premier. We do not call them madam.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon Adams, there has been a ruling on this matter.
Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, ...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon members, let us allow him to proceed.
Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, Jim Rohn says, and I quote:
If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much.
Minister, go on with the plans that you have prepared because if we are going to allow the DA to plan for us, guess what? There will be nothing. They will plan nothing but disaster - in some parts they are called a Disastrous Alliance. That is what they are called.
Since his appointment as Minister of Public Works, in October 2011, the hon Minister Thulas Thembelani Nxesi has openly stated that this department was critically ill. He had the courage, hon Mubu, to say that there is something wrong in this department but that he was going to tackle it. He did not sweep it under the carpet, as you did, saying that it was nothing. He had the courage to say, "We will tackle it." The ANC has the courage to tackle it.
Recently the Minister reported that the department was in the ICU. Today he reported again that the department was out of the ICU and that it was improving. In the medical parlance favoured recently, one can say that the department is critical but stable. And the Minister has alluded to that, hon Mubu. You see, the problem with the DA is that they want everything to be unstable. Why? Because what the ANC does, which is good for the country, is not good for the DA.
However, it must be very clear that the department did not magically land in the ICU. In fact, it may not have landed in the hospital in the first place. It landed in the hospital and subsequently in the ICU because a very important step was taken. The ANC-led government put its foot down. It said, enough with corruption and fraud. Who signed the proclamation of the Special Investigating Unit? It was this President, hon Jacob Zuma - as the President of the country and of the ANC.
This Minister has taken a step and said, I don't care who you are or what you are and whether you belong to my party or not, if you are corrupt I will deal with you. He did not say this is a reputable person who has run into cash-flow problems and then tried to hide them from the law. If you are corrupt, we will deal with you. [Interjections.]
What can you prove? Have you dealt with corrupt officials in the Western Cape? No! No! You protect them and say they have run into problems. That is why schools and houses are not being built. On the Cape Flats there are project that are run through the Expanded Public Works Programme of the Western Cape government and the City of Cape Town. These are standing idle in Manenberg and in Q-Town in Athlone because you did not pay the contractors. The contractors are waiting for their money and you did not do your compliance regarding the contractors, hon Masango. [Interjections.]
Mr S J MASANGO: We want to go to them!
Mr F ADAMS: No, no. You did not do the compliance. You were talking about the DA and I am also talking to you about the DA. Don't come and talk to me about other things. I am referring to your party, the DA.
An HONOURABLE MEMBER: What about the ANC?
Mr F ADAMS: Enough with corruption and fraud. Diagnosing this patient as suffering from corruption and fraud was the very first step. We have diagnosed it. Dr Thulas Thembelani Nxesi has diagnosed it. He has diagnosed it. [Applause.] And he has taken steps to get rid of it. What have you done?
Placing the patient in the ICU and providing the right medicine were the second step and we can already see the difference. The difference is already evident. I must say to hon Mubu that he himself agreed in the portfolio committee meeting that, yes, there was a difference. But today, because he sees his Chief Whip here, he knows that he must play to the music of his Chief Whip and of the DA ... [Interjections.]
Mr K S MUBU: Chair, I rise on a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon Adams. What is your point of order, sir?
Mr K S MUBU: Chair, on a point of order: I think the hon member is not telling the truth. He must apologise.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon member, that is not a point of order, sir. Continue, hon Adams.
Mr F ADAMS: We talk about the difference that the turnaround strategy has brought about. It has made a difference and is continuing to make a difference. In the first place, the department has been stabilised, as the Minister has just indicated here. But for you to see that, you must take off your blinkers. Stop walking through life with blinkers on, opposed to everything good that is happening in South Africa just because it was not initiated by the DA. But don't worry, as the ANC we will carry on to initiate good things, irrespective of what you think and say as the DA.
In the second phase, efficiency has been enhanced. In the third phase, the department will become sustainable as part of government's wider developmental mechanism – a mechanism that drives socioeconomic development for our people. As we are discussing the budget of this department, the importance of this turnaround cannot be understated. At its foundation, this turnaround is about making certain that the R6,1 billion that government has allocated for Public Works in this financial year is not wasted.
The property portfolio that Public Works manages is huge. The Minister referred to 30 000 land parcels, on which we have 107 000 buildings and structures. It is difficult, because the whole built environment, construction and property management sector does not always play an honest game. Instead we noticed over many years how some of the companies in this sector colluded with one another to fix prices. And who has brought that collusion to the fore? That was the ANC government. [Interjections.]
Mr J J MC GLUWA: Chairperson, on a point of order: Will the former National Party member ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, get to your point of order. [Interjections.] What is your point? Why are you rising?
Mr J J MC GLUWA: Chairperson, I want to know whether the former National Party member will take a question. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Order! Hon member, the hon member wants to know if you can take a question?
Mr F ADAMS: Yes, I will take his question.
Mr J J MC GLUWA: Hon member, can you tell us more about the scandals around Marius Fransman in the Western Cape province?
Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, I think the hon member has Marius Fransman's phone number and address. He can go and drink coffee with him at the provincial legislature and ask him about his scandals. I am not Marius Fransman's spokesperson. Do me that favour, hon member.
But I know why the hon member is asking that question and why he does not have the guts to go to Marius Fransman. You see, if you are party-hopping ...
Afrikaans[16:04:19]:
... soos hulle in Afrikaans sê, soos 'n sprinkaan ... [Gelag.]
English:
... what do you call a sprinkaan [grasshopper] in English? If you are party-hopping, then you do not have stability. [Laughter.] You do not know which party you should belong to next year or the year after that, because you are party-hopping. [Interjections.] Jump! Jump! Jump! Jump! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Order!
Mr F ADAMS: That is ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!
Mr F ADAMS: ... that is party-hopping.
It is difficult because the ANC government has taken these companies to the Competition Commission for the collusion that is happening. The ANC government is not afraid. We have said that we are not afraid. We do not sweep corruption under the carpet; we deal with it. We have experts who deal with corruption. We have surgeons who are capable of dealing with corruption. [Interjections.] We have Dr Blade Nzimande, we have - I want to propose - Dr Thembelani Nxesi, Dr Buti Manamela and all those doctors who deal with corruption. [Interjections.] You do not deal with it, so we are dealing with it. [Laughter.]
Instead, we noticed over many years how some of the companies in this sector colluded with one another to fix prices. They are highly skilled at doing these things. They use specialists in the fields of property law and property investment often to twist contracts in ways that squeeze profits out of deals for anyone outside their ring of corruption. The department does not have enough specialists to compete on an even footing with such people.
When the playing field is unequal, all kinds of fraudulent and corrupt possibilities arise. Some government officials are not so innocent either. We have dealt with such government officials and they are still being dealt with, on a daily basis. They are not being shifted from the North West to wherever, to wherever, to wherever. When you look at your province in the Western Cape, they are importing officials from everywhere to come to the Western Cape, kicking out people who are working in the province. They import officials who must come and dance to the tune of the DA and of the madam. [Interjections.] The must dance to the tune of what the madam is playing.
Together with those specialists, they become property wolves who tear apart the inside of the huge property portfolio to create a place where the money disappears into the pockets of a few already rich people, while the masses do not profit. But, as we said, the party that leads this government deployed a leader who put together a team that is committed to stopping these corrupt practices. This team has started by getting the immovable asset register sorted out. Now we know what we own.
Comrade ... hon Mubu - I nearly addressed you as comrade, but let us leave that. [Interjections.] You are going to become one, one of these days. [Interjections.]
The warning is out to those who, during the heydays of the apartheid regime, took government property and continue to sit with it illegally. Operation Bring Back is soon to be turned into Operation Take Back. Unless you bring back what is not yours - this is a caring government – you are kindly reminded to give it back or else it will be taken and returned to where it belongs. [Interjections.]
The Minister and his team further announced the creation of the Governance, Risk and Compliance Branch to drive anticorruption efforts. We are driving it and the Minister is the driver behind the steering wheel of this big truck. [Interjections.] I do not think you have anyone who can drive anything on your side – no one. [Interjections.] No one! No one! [Interjections.]
This branch has as its core objective the implementation of the National Development Plan. Before you stand here and talk about the National Development Plan, you must first get umrabulo - a lecture - on sections of the development plan that you do not even know. [Interjections.] If you have read it, then why do you twist it? You must interpret it correctly. Nevertheless, if you do not know what it says, we can arrange with hon Dr Blade Nzimande to give a lecture in the politburo about what is happening.[Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The National Development Plan's priority is to improve service delivery. The branch will make sure it identifies areas where there is a risk of fraud and corruption in order to counter it even before it can take place. Where it cannot do that, it will detect cases for investigation and, where possible, resolve such cases with disciplinary action, or even prosecution and litigation, where needed. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Like you promote Filcon with R400 million! The ANC supports this Budget Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mr F ADAMS
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – GOOD HOPE CHAMBER
Wednesday, 16 July 2014 Take: 21
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon House Chairperson, we have taken note of the weaknesses that have been raised by the hon members regarding a number of areas where we have to deal with gaps. We will certainly deal with those areas; their financial controls and systems. In fact, that is what the turnaround strategy is all about. The issues of disclaimers and aspects that relate to the turnaround strategy and so on - we will deal with those issues.
We presented our plan in the budget and we think that the portfolio committee members will have to hold us to account on what we said we are going to do. Leave all the politics here and stop playing to the gallery and so on.
IsiZulu:
Bab' uSithole we-IFP, siyabonga, kuyabonakala ukuthi uyazi ukuthi sisukaphi futhi siya kuphi nalo mnyango. Siyabonga Mfundisi we-ACDP, kuyabonaklala ukuthi ubulokhu usibhekile ukuthi senzani futhi siya ngakuphi. Siyabonga ukuthi nikubone lokho esikwenzile.
English:
Others do not even want to acknowledge what we have done, but those who have eyes can see where we come from and where we are going.
Where you got it wrong, Bab'uSithole, is that the Nkandla report was released to the public. People were even doing comparisons of the departmental task team report and the Public Protector report.
IsiZulu:
Mhlawumbe inkinga ukuthi lolu daba aluzange lubhalwe ephephandabeni iLanga laseNatali. [Uhleko.] [Maybe the problem is that the story was not reported in Ilanga newspaper in KwaZulu-Natal. [Laughter.]]
IsiXhosa:
Kwilungu elihloniphekileyo le-EFF, siyabulela ngokusixhasa kule nkqubo ye-EPWP. Kwezinye ke ntombi, kufuneka ukhe uphinde ujonge la maxwebhu besixoxa ngawo kwikomiti yethu yemicimbi yesebe ngoba uthetha ngathi ubungekho. Mhlawumbi zange uve ukuba sasisithini. Ingathi wawudukile aweva ukuba kuthiwani kwikomiti yemicimbi yesebe. Zonke izinto esasizithetha, sasizithetha ukhona umamele. Ngoku le nto uyithetha apha iyasothusa. Kodwa ke siza kukunyamezela, sikufundise kwaye uza kude ufike kulo mgangatho sikuwo kuba siyayiqonda imeko yakho. [Kwahlekwa.]
English:
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Mubu, what is pleasing is that all the information you are quoting comes from us, and we gave this information voluntarily. This shows that we are accountable. Let me assure you that we will disclose all the information that is required relating to all our expenditure and everything. But let us be clear: Those houses do not belong to the Ministers as their personal property. Those are government houses. Their maintenance and their upgrading is done by Public Works and not in response to demands made by the Ministers. [Interjections.]
Even in that, we have said there is corruption – it is us who said that. We are investigating. And I must tell you this: Corruption knows no colour. Interestingly, a lot of corruption in houses is here in the Western Cape and most of those companies are led by white people. [Interjections.] Those companies are here in the Western Cape. [Interjections.] And I want to say that.
An HON MEMBER: Ja, ja! [Yes, yes!]
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Mubu, I am very disappointed by your input. You misrepresent the report and even quote things that are not there in the Public Protector's report. What is even more embarrassing is that, being who you are, you chose to say nothing about transformation and ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order! Hon Minister, let me just take this point of order. Yes, hon member?
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Hon House Chair, during the course of the interjections, one of the members at the back there said, "unamanga", which, when translated, means he lied. It is unparliamentary to accuse a member of lying and I ask you to make a ruling on that. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members, order! Hon members, let us maintain the decorum of this esteemed extended public committee. Let us respect one another so that the Minister can conclude the debate and respond to the inputs you have made in the course of this debate.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: As I close, what is embarrassing, hon Mubu, is that, given who you are, you chose to say nothing about transformation in the construction and property sector - which is still mainly white - just because you have to impress your party bosses. Given your background, you should be telling the truth about those issues. Instead of talking about the issues that are affecting the majority of South Africans, you decided to be the spokesperson of the few; of the privileged minority.
We will be patient, and we are going to deal with these issues together, with all of you. We are saying to hon members that they should not criticise the Department of Public Works based on the Auditor-General's report of previous years. They must judge us on the upcoming audit and report, and see if there is any improvement. [Interjections.]
We are saying that turnaround is not an event, it is a process. That is why it is a seven-year plan. We are not going to see results tomorrow because these are systemic issues, and we will have to deal with them. There are procedures that we will have to apply. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 16:18.
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