Hansard: NA: Questions for Oral Reply: Economics Cluster 4
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 05 Mar 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 129
START OF DAY
WEDNESDAY, 5 MARCH 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 15:03.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY – The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 129
START OF THE DAY
Question 1:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon members, the first step we took was to meet with key stakeholders in the mining sector to agree on a course of action to stabilise the sector. We then established the mining forum comprising of organised labour, business and government. Labour is represented by trade union federations - Congress of SA Trade Unions, Cosatu, Federation of Unions of SA, Fedusa, and National Council of Trade Unions, Nactu – and trade unions such as the Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union, Amcu, the National Union of Mineworkers, the NUM, the Media Workers Association of South Africa, Mwasa, and Solidarity. Business is represented by the Chamber of Mines and the SA Mining Development Association.
On 03 July 2013, the parties signed the framework agreement for sustainable mining and identified both the short-term and medium- to long-term measures required to stabilise the mining sector. In ensuring the rule of law, peace and stability and the provision of proper and sustainable human settlement infrastructure in the Rustenburg Platinum belt, we had identified some of the priority short-term measures requiring immediate attention. Much progress has been made in implementing some of these short-term measures. Our observation is that all parties have fulfilled their commitments to ensure peace and stability within the mines. Both mining companies and workers have since the signing of the framework conducted their affairs within the ambit of the law.
The Mine Crime Combating Forum was launched in August 2013 and trade unions and mining companies are co-operating with the SA Police Service to maintain peace and stability in the mines and surrounding communities. Government has also taken steps to improve the processing of all cases emanating from the mining sector. The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development has annexed the magisterial districts of Brits, Mankweng and Rustenburg to the Bafokeng Magisterial District in order to create capacity and accelerate the hearing of cases emanating from the mines in those affected areas.
Both government and business have committed financial resources and land to ensure the provision of proper sustainable human settlement infrastructure in the area. A technical team is working with the local municipality to determine the full scope of the project. The Chamber of Mines reported recently that mining companies continue to implement various projects to transform the old hostels into decent living accommodation. We continue to monitor progress in this regard in the context of the Mining Charter commitments.
The Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, the CCMA, is also conducting a series of training programmes in the mines to educate union members on best labour relations practice and workplace relations. The Chamber of Mines has established a task team on employee indebtedness or a debt trap. Amongst other interventions, they are conducting financial literacy classes and have taken steps to shut down illegal micro lenders. We are confident that the ongoing work will ultimately address this challenge in the medium-term.
Medium- to long-term measures include reviewing the migrant labour system, annual assessment of the implementation of the Mining Charter and the reskilling of workers to achieve competitiveness and sustainable growth of the mining sector. This is all work in progress.
The Chamber of Mines has initiated processes with the further education and training, the FET, colleges to provide training to mineworkers with the view of improving their skills level. Thus helping to enhance the portability of their skills within and beyond the mining sector
At the last meeting of the Mining Forum, both the Chamber of Mines and the SA Mining Development Association reported that they had initiated processes to improve the migrant labour system in a way that will afford mineworkers more time with their families. Government is part of this process of reviewing the migrant labour system which, in our view, will address, in the long-term, some of the social challenges brought about by this system. The efforts of this forum have once again confirmed that as South Africans we are capable of addressing complex challenges through dialogue.
Finally, I am sure that members will agree that in spite of the occasional flare-ups, the situation in Marikana in particular and the platinum belt in general, is much calmer and less characterised by violent crimes and murder. However, we cannot be complacent and the situation is therefore continuously being monitored through engagements with all stakeholders. I thank you for your attention. [Applause.]
Ms F C BIKANI
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Ms F C BIKANI: Hon Speaker, in the light of the detailed explanation that the hon has given us and which we are grateful for, how then are we assured of Amcu's commitment in this regard in that we cannot afford further instability in the mining sector? How could we be assured that in terms of investor interests there will be improvement? Also, how will the Deputy President ensure that Amcu will not withdraw from the agreements that have been made with the relevant stakeholders? Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Hon the Deputy President, as you rise to respond, can I just remind you that two minutes is allocated to each reply to a supplementary question.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I thought since this is my maiden speech, I should be afforded a little bit more time, Sir. [Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: Even maidens are allocated two minutes.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, clearly I was mistaken.
Amcu was part of the processes of crafting the agreement, but have failed to append signatures to the agreement simply because by that time it had not yet established structures. Now that it has attained the recognition status in a number of platinum mining companies, we have actually said to it that it needs to append signatures to the agreement. It has undertaken to go back to the structures get a mandate and then come back to sign the agreement. Amcu has publicly stated that it is fully committed to the agreement as a framework for addressing the challenges of violence in the industry. Thank you.
Mr J R B LORIMER
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr J R B LORIMER: Mr Speaker, I have to say that from the other side of the House we were not too impressed by the Deputy President's efforts in this regard. We are hearing lots of talk but really not much result. When the framework agreement was announced some eight months ago, we were told that the intention was to ensure a peaceful wage bargaining season and to restore investor confidence.
Since then we have heard clashes between mineworkers and police, between mineworkers and mine security and between members of different unions. We have had a non striking miner attacked, beaten and set alight. And just this Monday, we had an NUM union member at the Union Mine badly beaten, his head severely damaged and his ribs and arms broken. There is not much on the peace side; even lesser on the investor side where we just came from an 11 week strike at Northam Platinum. We now have 80 000 platinum miners who are approaching their sixth week on strike. In the face of all these, how could the Deputy President claim that his efforts have been successful?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Lorimer, yes, indeed, in terms of de-escalating the conflicts in the industry, this process has, in fact, achieved the required results. We take the view that the best deterrent of acts of violence is the knowledge that people will be arrested, and they are being arrested. In the two cases you have mentioned the perpetrators have been arrested and they are facing charges. That's why you don't see... As you've correctly pointed out that there was a strike at Northam Platinum that lasted for 11 weeks, it was peaceful throughout those weeks - there were no acts of violence.
Currently, we have a strike that is going into the sixth week involving Amcu in the platinum sector. Of course, they had declared a dispute without negotiating and we met with the CEOs of the companies, Amcu and their federation and persuaded them to get back to the negotiating table hence you read about these negotiations. Amcu indicated only yesterday and the day before that it has now revised its demand. Initially when they declared a deadlock, they had not made any move in whatsoever. They regarded their letter of demand as a settlement position. So, we had to persuade them offline to get back to the negotiating table.
I would say that the process has attained its immediate aim. The short-term aim was really to ensure that all actions in the industry are not accompanied by violence because the right to strike is enshrined in the Constitution of the country. This process was of course never meant to facilitate negotiations. There are agencies that do that. When my colleague, the Minister of Labour and I met with both parties, we availed ourselves to offer our services as facilitators should they need our services but they were content to go the CCMA route. That's where the matter is.
We do speak to investors on an ongoing basis. Investors in the mining industry take a long-term view. They are not like speculators. They know that the right to strike and the right to lock-out are both parts of the legislative framework. They are not alarmed or put off by the fact that these workers go out on strike. What is important to them ... [Time expired.]
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF: Hon Speaker and hon the Deputy President, Standard & Poor is the most important agency as far as the mining sector is concerned in the world. They have recently warned to downgrade us if business confidence weakens, labour disputes escalate and production costs goes up due to the weakening of the currency. What they want to see is an improvement and efficiency in the public sector.
Hon Deputy President, we had an average of 32 public unrests per day across all provinces in South Africa. Are you not concerned that this would escalate during the elections and force Standard & Poor to take a negative decision on us?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That's a separate question altogether because you are alluding to the public sector.
The rating agencies of course take the totality of these issues into account. The question dealt specifically with the mining sector, and that is where I am directly involved.
I can perhaps take this opportunity to complete the answer that I meant to give to the hon Lorimer. Once we have gone through this period of dispute, we are going to sit down with all stakeholders in the industry to develop the sector's specific development plan flowing out of the National Development Plan. This because the industry as a whole needs that kind of a plan if we are to revive and put it on a higher plane since resources are available and companies are willing to come to the party with regards to a specific sector plan to ensure that all these concerns are addressed. But that is not something that you achieve by simply having one or two meetings. You have to work through it patiently. And we think we will be able to achieve stability and improved productivity in the industry. Thank you.
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Mr Speaker and Mr Deputy President, I have listened carefully to your answers, but there are still very important areas of uncertainty. To name but one: What steps will be taken to ensure that unions do not continue to hold the economy ransom during salary negotiations?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: As I said hon Van der Merwe that the area of collective bargaining is a right. The parties have the right to angle for best advantages in the process. Our role really is to remind them that if labour makes demands which would result in the introduction of new machines which replace workers, the unions will shrink and they will have no future, and also to remind the employers that labour is important to raise productivity levels. Therefore, during the course of that bargaining they should be able to find each other and find amicable settlements to satisfy the demands as well as the expectations of investors, employers and workers. Thank you.
Mr L RAMATLAKANE
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Hon Speaker, following the reply of hon the Deputy President, we have recently seen the emergence of another new union in the mining sector which looks like a breakaway from Amcu. Are you concerned about whether that particular union should be engaged early in the process?
You would remember that there was a debate about whether Amcu in, its formation, needed to be engaged to stabilise the industry. Are you concerned that that particular breakaway union that has now happened may create another instability? If it is so, what would be your take in engaging with that particular union fairly and early in the process? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, as soon as the union is registered with the Department of Labour we will engage with it. We will try to ensure that they play within the confines of the rules and the laws. We have absolutely no difficulty in engaging with them because it is the same industry and we are obliged to deal with them. Thank you.
THE SPEAKER
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
DELEGATION OF IRANIAN PARLIAMENT LED BY SPEAKER OF NATIONAL CONSULTATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN, HIS EXCELLENCY DR ALI LARIJANI
(Welcome)
The SPEAKER: Thank you the hon the Deputy President. Before we move on to Question 2 which has been asked by the hon the Leader of the Opposition, I wish to recognise in the gallery and acknowledge the presence of the delegation of the Iranian Parliament led by the Speaker of the National Consultative Assembly of the Islamic Republic of Iran, His Excellency Dr Ali Larijani and members of his delegation. Welcome to you, Sir. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 2
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The SPEAKER
Question 2:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the executive understands that asking questions by Members of Parliament is one of the important tools through which to hold the executive accountable. It is in that spirit of understanding that at the beginning of this year, the President indicated his availability to respond to questions in the National Assembly on 13 March 2014. His office, however, was then informed that 13 March 2014 was unsuitable due to Parliament having scheduled a Joint Sitting on that day. So, as we speak, no alternative date has as yet been proposed by Parliament to the President for him to answer questions in the National Assembly. Thank you.
Dr W G JAMES: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon Deputy President for his usual gracious response. But the question does remain as to why President Zuma has been hiding in the Union Buildings and avoids addressing representatives of the people assembled here on issues of compelling national importance such as the high level of unemployment facing young people, sluggish economic and job growth and the sickening levels of corruption in our land including the scandalous example of Nkandla.
The Constitution obliges ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Excuse me, hon James, there seems to be a point of something there. What point are you rising on, sir?
Adv T M MASUTHA: Speaker, yes, indeed, it is a point of order. I just wanted to find out whether it is parliamentary for the hon member to use the words: "The President is hiding at the Union Buildings." Is that parliamentary? If not, may we request the hon member to withdraw that comment? Thank you.
Dr W G JAMES: The Constitution obliges the hon Deputy President to "Assist the President in the executive functions of government". The question is, what are you doing, hon Deputy President, to bring the President out of hiding in order to face the music about the embarrassing personal example he is setting? I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I think I have responded to the question that hon James has posed. The President availed himself and it's really Parliament that wasn't available to listen to the President. So, as soon as this House is ready to listen to the President, a date should then be set. The President is always available and ready to respond to questions. [Interjections.] He was here a week or two weeks ago and he responded to questions. In terms of Rule 111, the President is expected to at least answer a question for each term of each session. And so, he made arrangements, but Parliament indicated that it was already engaged on 13 March. I don't know what more than that we can do. Thank you. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Thank you, the hon the Deputy President, for confirming that the President is available to answer questions, especially when he is included in the programme.
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA
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The SPEAKER
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Speaker, mine is a follow-up question.
On 23 November, the Deputy President advised Parliament, as he has done on a number of occasions in the House that sometimes the information that is being asked about from the executive would be freely available in annual reports or documents that are already before this House. Further to that, you indicated that the Cabinet is always committed to meeting its constitutional requirements of accountability to Parliament.
In the light of the above statement, can the hon the Deputy President, indicate whether the question by the Leader of the Opposition is not rather frivolous in that the information that she required is available in other documents before the House, especially because her party is represented in the committees of this Parliament and the information is well known? [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members, order!
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, with regard to the specific question, it is the right of members to pose questions and our duty is to respond to them. If the question is irrelevant, we will respond accordingly. But we do understand, accept and respect the right of members to pose questions. Our duty is to... As I said, questions are a tool for holding members of the executive accountable. Thank you.
Mrs S V KALYAN
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mrs S V KALYAN: Hon Speaker, the Deputy President, as the Leader of Government Business, you have to consult with the Speaker with regard to programming in Parliament. I would like to ask the Deputy President whether he would consider a special sitting in April? We are racing towards the end of the Parliamentary programme next week and that is why the President could not be accommodated, and I accept that explanation.
However, as the Leader of Government Business in consultation with the Speaker, would the hon the Deputy President, consider looking at the President's diary and setting up a date for him to come and answer questions before 7 May? [Applause.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, given the load of legislation that still has to be considered by the House, we would rather have the Houses focus on that most important work. However, because I am aware that there is a fair amount of legislation sitting with the NCOP, it may necessitate that the House be convened for a special sitting day next month. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M WATERS
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, I rise in accordance with Rule 113(4) which says there can be four supplementary questions to every question. We have had only had three. The hon James has pressed his button for a further question. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: I don't know whether he has pressed his button, but you are not hon James. Let him speak for himself. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Hon James, you look surprised that you are being volunteered. [Laughter.]
Dr W G JAMES: Speaker, it is of the greatest importance that the President addresses this Assembly before the end of this particular term. Therefore, following my colleague, I ask again whether the Deputy President will in fact make a very special effort to communicate with the Speaker to see whether there can be a match in their diaries. I thank you.
The SPEAKER: Hon Deputy President, as this question is the same as the second supplementary question, it is up to you to decide whether you want to respond.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I don't think there will be any harm in approaching the Speaker with regard to the request. We will do so. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members, order!
QUESTION 3
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QUESTION 2
Question 3:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon members, we have previously reported on the processes that Cabinet has undertaken in discussing the matter of amendments to the Executive Members' Ethics Code. Cabinet has had numerous discussions on this matter. I can now report that on 4 December 2013, Cabinet approved the amendments to the Executive Members' Ethics Code. And as indicated in our response on 21 August 2013 to hon Kilian, the amended Executive Members' Ethics Code was then referred to the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development as the lead department to then embark on its internal processes. As soon as those are completed, the code will be submitted to Parliament. Thank you.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Speaker, we thank the hon Deputy President for his response but we have to say that we regret the delay in the processing of this amending Bill. This goes to the heart of our constitutional foundation and founding principles, which is to establish an accountable and responsive government.
Last August, we heard that this process was underway and we are now happy to know that the Deputy President reported that it was tabled and adopted by Cabinet. As we all know, we are moving towards an election and after the elections, there will, in all probability, be a new Cabinet which will then want to review it. The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development has certainly not moved on this, for four years now, since the tabling of the Public Protector report and that is simply not good enough. Her Report was tabled in 2010 and she identified the weakness and also said that the gap should be closed for executive members.
Speaker, until the political leadership of our country demonstrates zero tolerance to corruption, poor communities in our country will continue to suffer and South Africa will continue to go down on the corruption barometer, in the eyes of the international community. I thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, as I said, Cabinet did approve the amendments and the process is now with the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Development. As soon as they are done with their internal processes, the code will definitely be submitted to Parliament.
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Speaker, in terms of the follow-up questions asked by the opposition, it is quite clear and noticeable that the role of the Deputy President as the leader of Government Business is not clearly understood. It could quite quickly be reduced to managing the diary. Can the Deputy President reiterate and explain the role of the Leader of Government Business, so that we don't have this kind of confusion next time?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: My role really is defined in the rules of Parliament. So, I am the link between the executive and Parliament. I am quite happy to play that role of being the link between the executive and Parliament. That is really my role here. Thanks.
Dr W G JAMES
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Dr W G JAMES: Mr Speaker, taking notes of the hon Deputy President's response to the question posed about the government's intention regarding the recommendations by the Public Protector, I want to ask the Deputy President whether he will distance government from the immature, premature and grossly inappropriate attack launched by the hon Chief Whip Stone Sizani. It was an attack on the Public Protector's findings, which were, to repeat, that the Act lacked punitive measures that must be applied to members of the executive who transgress the Executive Members Ethics Code - a fact that the Deputy President in fact acknowledged on 21 October 2013.
This was clearly a brazen effort on the part of the hon Stone Sizani to hamper and prevent Parliament from doing its duty in holding the executive to account. The Hon Deputy President's view on this subject should be made crystal clear in this House. I thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: My view on this matter is very clear that we as the executive submit to the oversight of Parliament. I speak on authority that it is the view of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party as well. Thank you.
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Mr Speaker, Deputy President, the fact that this matter has been delayed for four years raises implications. Why really? Is it because the executive wants to protect themselves or what? It raises very suspicious questions and I want to tell you Mr Deputy President, through you Mr Speaker, that this is a bad story of the ANC.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I think the fact that it has taken this long to submit the code to Parliament, is regrettable. We cannot fudge that part of it, but that is how long democratic processes take. Cabinet had to discuss and debate it and eventually, those discussions were concluded on 4 December, last year. So, we have gone past the major hurdle and now we are very close to the tape, as it were. Thank you.
QUESTION 4
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QUESTION 3
Question 4:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the youth employment accord is a good summary of the multipronged strategy on youth employment and it identifies six key areas of support for youth employment and those are the following: firstly, improving education and training opportunities so that we provide the basis for lifelong employability; secondly, work exposure through job placement schemes and internships to provide young people with their first experience of working life; thirdly, youth targets set aside in particular industries, especially in growing industries such public infrastructure, construction, the green economy and business process services so that these become youth centred industries; fourthly, large-scale youth brigades in the context of existing public employment schemes to integrate many efforts of government and to provide the bridge between unemployment and permanent employment; fifthly, increase support for youth entrepreneurship and youth co-operatives to empower youth to run enterprises and create jobs; and lastly, work with the private sector to expand the intake of young people so that the responsibility to ensure that we use the talent of young people is carried by both the private and public sectors.
Given time constraints, I can only provide some examples of progress against our commitment in the accord. I draw attention to the Presidential Youth Indaba that was held over the weekend where a more detailed and comprehensive report on progress was given. The first two pillars, education and training with stronger job placement and internships are central to government's overall programme of investment in our young people.
It is only possible to mention some highlights. To start with, is the new White Paper on Higher Education and Training and Further Education and Training's promises to more than double the number of young people in the further education and training, the FET, colleges and universities over the coming 15 years, as well as strengthening lifelong learning through new community colleges.
Over the past two years accommodation for more than 4 200 students has been completed at universities. Two new universities and 12 new campuses for the FET colleges are under construction, making it the biggest new university and FET college buildings in the past 30 years.
In line with the education and skills supports, government is forging closer ties between enterprises, especially state-owned companies and the education and training system. To give just one example, Transnet has acquired R175 million from the National Skills Fund to train additional 1000 artisans trainees for the national pool over three years starting in October last year.
I have been informed by the Department of Economic Development, which is tasked with the responsibility to monitor youth employment trends that in terms of enterprise development, in April 2013 the Industrial Development Corporation, the IDC, set aside R1 billion for youth entrepreneurship programmes. As of December 2013 the total cumulative financing for youth-owned enterprise by the IDC came to R67 million in that financial year.
The Small Enterprise Financing Agencies, Sefa, allocated R1,7 billion for youth entrepreneurs. Funding for youth-linked projects worth R126 million has been dispersed by Sefa through its agencies. Both the IDC and Sefa are now working closely with the National Youth Development Agency, the NYDA, to publicise the fund among young people. For the period from April to September the NYDA spend R21,8 million on its youth enterprise projects benefiting about 16 000 young people.
Specific examples are provinces such as Gauteng which procured goods and services worth over R425 million from youth enterprises impacting on a total of 5 105 youth as of June. Mpumalanga spend R1,4 million to support five co-operatives with 1 300 members. The Eastern Cape provided R24 million to 129 small and medium enterprises, SMEs, and trained 34 throughout to the end of 2013.
On set-asides for youth in fast growing industries, the Minister of Trade and Industry recently issued a directive to the Business Process Services Sector to ensure that 80% of jobs will go to the youth in the future. The Presidential Infrastructure Coordinating Commission, the PICC, survey of 20 major projects recorded over 43 000 youth jobs with over 15 000 employed in Kusile and Medupi alone. Youth brigades will build on existing public ... [Time Expired].
Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the Deputy President for such a comprehensive ...
The SPEAKER: Sorry hon members, is hon Manamela in the House?
An HON MEMBER: No.
The SPEAKER: Okay, proceed hon member.
Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the Deputy President for such a comprehensive response with regard to the question. There is a general perception that is created by the opposition parties that government has not done much in relation to job creation for the youth. Given your comprehensive response to the programmes that government had put in place to address youth unemployment, it shows that much has been done.
Can you, in your response, address this perception? Secondly, we are made to believe that the government programmes such as the Expanded Public Works Programme, National Rural Youth Service Corps, Narysec, Youth Brigades and the Community Works Programme, are not sustainable and are just merely an election ploy by the government. Would you address this perception and demystify the myth that has been created mostly by the opposition parties. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon members, yes indeed, government is trying its best to address the very burning problem of youth unemployment. We employ a multipronged strategy whereby, if possible or applicable, education is treated as the best way of empowering young people. The government tries to ensure that it absorbs those who need to be in permanent jobs through these interventions. But, of course, the private sector also has to be robed in because job creation is the responsibility of both the private and public sectors. So, if there is a perception that government is sitting on its collective hands, it is not true. Government has indeed rolled up its sleeves to try and create these opportunities and will continue to do so. Thank you.
The SPEAKER
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The SPEAKER: Hon Rabotapi you are next.
Mr T D HARRIS: Hon Speaker, if you would allow me, let me take another look at those five main promises from government in the Youth Employment Accord. The first one is to create work exposure for young South Africans. There has actually been some achievement but it happened in a programme that doesn't appear in the youth accord, the youth wage subsidy, something that hon Manamela said that he is firmly opposed to. Perhaps that's why he is not in the House. The 56 000 beneficiaries in the youth wage subsidy are a drop in the ocean when you see the 218 000 young people became unemployed while ANC was fighting about the youth wage subsidy.
In the second area of education and training the Deputy President said nothing about the fact 20 out of the 50 FET colleges and eight out of 21 Sector Education and Training Authorities, SETAs, have had to be placed under administration in the past three years.
The last three proposals are interventionist distortionary and entirely inconsistent with the National Development Plan, the NDP, and that is, the youth brigades, youth target set aside and youth co-operatives. It is probably a good thing that there hasn't been any implementation on these three. Will the Deputy President accept that the Economic Development Department, the EDD, has now released six accords that have not created a single job and that the youth employment accord has been a complete failure? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, in response to hon Harris, I would say: No, the Youth Employment Accord has not been a failure. As I said, even at the youth summit over the weekend, progress report was presented and young people have embraced the Youth Employment Accord and they are using it as a platform for accessing these opportunities. So I would not say it has failed because truly the unemployment of young people is a very serious problem and whatever we can do to reduce it – to nibble at it - we should be encouraged to do that. I am sure that the economy is going to grow at a much higher rate so that we succeed to create more permanent job opportunities.
There are a whole lot of new vistas of giving impetus to the economy. If we look at the coastline, we can create a massive marine industry. We can also look at the importance of the gas and oil industry which could create huge new jobs and make energy affordable and therefore unlock businesses that may appear to be on the margins today to begin to grow once the energy problems of the country are resolved. There are very good prospects in that regard. We are, in fact, a well-endowed country even with gas and oil. Thank you.
The SPEAKER
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
PRESENCE OF MEMBERS OF NARYSEC FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY
(Recognition)
The SPEAKER: Before we move to the next item on the agenda, I wish to recognise in the gallery members of the Narysec who are here to share their successes with the Members of Parliament, and they come from all over South Africa. [Applause.]
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY - MINISTERS
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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY – THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
ECONOMICS
CLUSTER 4
Question 25:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE (for the Minister of Finance): Hon Speaker, the response to the question is that policy measures to shield South Africa from global economic instability have to a large extent already become embedded in the fabric of our economic policy-making. Stable and transparent microeconomic policies and robust institutions have made the South African economy more resilient to shocks and have promoted economic stability.
Firstly, inflation targeting has ensured that inflation remains low and stable, which benefits households in terms of purchasing power. Inflation which averaged 14% in the decade prior to 1994, fell to an average of 5,5% between 2003 and 2013.
Secondly, prudent fiscal policy has helped steer the economy through one of the largest financial crises in 70 years and has created employment opportunities whilst creating space for increased spending on important social priorities and investment.
Thirdly, is the fact that the flexible exchange rate serves as a shock absorber because it reduces external shocks, supporting exports growth and reducing the current account deficit. The rand is an important shock absorber for the economy, and is backed up by a credible monetary policy framework that limits the pass through from a weaker rand to inflation in order to preserve the real value of the currency.
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Microeconomic stability prepares the ground for growth, but growth is not guaranteed without the necessary microeconomic reforms that determine whether savings and investment decisions are optimal. Our economy relies on microeconomic reforms to reignite growth and to create jobs. A number of reforms and programmes have helped the economy to withstand turbulence in the global economy.
If I may touch on a few of them, if time permits, interventions that have supported our domestic growth ranged from the economic competitiveness and support package in 2011 with the express intention of countering the effects of the global economic slowdown in the local companies. This programme initially had an allocation of R25 billion. Over the next three years, we are looking at R15,2 billion.
We also have incentives to boost manufacturing which have yielded returns where government has adopted a multifaceted approach to broaden the participation in the economy and enhance competitiveness for domestic producers. We also have had a number of interventions in the labour market where Expanded Public Works Programme, the EPWP, have been running through all spheres of government to provide productive work. A spin-off from the EPWP in the community work's programme, the fastest growing component of expanded public works as I have said, with a strong focus on generating local economic empowerment. This programme has provided guaranteed part-time employment to more than 175 000 people in 2012-13 alone.
We also have the National Infrastructure Plan which has been rolled out as the capacity expansion to address existing capacity constraints, which is a crucial pillar of our economic growth agenda. Capital investment by public enterprises has increased by more than 260% in real terms over the past 10 years. Local government's annual infrastructure expenditure has doubled in real terms since the late 1990's. All told, the public sector has invested in excess of R1 trillion in infrastructure since 2009-10. Medium-term capital expenditure by state-owned companies is projected to reach 381,8 billion investment by a number of ... [Time expired.]
Dr Z LUYENGE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 133
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE
Dr Z LUYENGE: Hon Speaker, let me first appreciate the elaborate, comprehensive and detailed response from the Deputy Minister. Can I also ask a follow-up question? In outlining the indicators that have strengthened and developed the economy to withstand the impact of global economic stability, you referred to a more determined focus on microeconomic reforms going forward. Can I therefore ask: What then will constitute these microeconomic reforms? I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Speaker, unfortunately I couldn't even finish the elaborate answer. Another elaborate response is that microeconomic policy supports growth and investment, but on its own as I said in my response, cannot accelerate inclusive economic growth. Our National Development Plan contains a clear structural reform agenda and identifies a number of key microeconomic reforms that are required.
The need to reduce the cost of living for poor households and the cost of doing business is one of those key elements. Competition policy and our competition authorities have made significant progress in this area. This is reflected in the 2013-14 Global Competitiveness report by the World Economic Forum, which ranked South Africa eighth in recent competition cases.
The first microeconomic reform is that Telkom was mandated to separate its electronic communications network and retail business. The second is the support for small, medium and micro enterprises and business start-ups to transform the economy, broaden the participation and create employment opportunities. The third is a greener and more sustainable economy and a shift in the energy mix, away from the overreliance on coal. The fourth is the support for local production and employment and the development of industries through government and procurement processes. The fifth is the broadening and the strengthening of industrial development and the list goes on. Those are but a few that I thought would be important to mention. Thank you.
Mr T D HARRIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 133
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE
Mr T D HARRIS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am sorry that the Finance Minister couldn't join us today, but to the Deputy Finance Minister, the bottom line is that other emerging market economies growing twice as fast as we are in the same global economy. Could this be because every time the Finance Minister proposes reforms to the labour market like he did in 2012, Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, runs to the President to ask him to stop? Is it because every time he proposes holding public servants and teachers to account, the SA Democratic Teachers Union, Sadtu, and the SA Municipal Workers' Union, Samwu, block his efforts? Is it because every year he puts more money into infrastructure spending, the state-owned entities underspend their infrastructure budgets by 20 to 40%? Could it be because the reform agenda of this government in the NDP is held hostage by vested interests within the tripartite alliance?
Are these reasons why South Africa grew at 1,9% last year while other middle-income countries like Chile, Malaysia, Peru and Vietnam all grew between 4 and 5,5%? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I think the biggest problem we have is the negativity by hon Harris, because I have just gone through a number of initiatives which are not the Minister of Finance's but which are government's initiatives and policy reforms that have taken place since 1994 and during the past five years.
With regard to the issues that you raised and the comparison you made, I just referred to the competitive index that actually compares us with our peers. Every time you look at this glass you see a half-empty glass, you don't want to see a half-full glass. When we look at how we were impacted upon by the global financial crisis, the only thing you see is when the labour flexibility that you always refer to, that has not been addressed and when you look at the strides that we have made in that area, for you it is nothing that can compare with our competitors. If you look at our stable microeconomic policies that have been implemented, none of them have been blocked by anyone because it is this government and not the Minister of Finance who has implemented those policies.
I said that we will not be able to achieve the target that you put in all the issues that I have raised, particularly the microeconomic reforms, unless we are able to step that up. It is one of the things that the Minister said during the table of the budget. You talk numbers as if there is a switch that you can just turn on and get your 8% growth. Eight percent growth comes from a concerted effort that is derived from the efforts that the government is currently implementing, and we are likely to achieve that only if we are able to move in that direction.
With regard to the underspending by the state-owned companies, if you were to go to all their plans and to the departments where they report, you will realise that there have been genuine reasons why most of the state-owned companies have actually not been able to spend their entire allocations.
If you are actually negative, you will not appreciate that in a way some of them have actually realised some savings, some of them have actually made progress better than the one that was in their original plans. Therefore, I want to submit that we are making good progress and it is only those who are sitting in a bus facing backwards that will not see the progress that we are making. [Applause.]
Dr Z LUYENGE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am covered. Thank you.
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 133
Dr Z LUYENGE
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF: Hon Deputy Speaker, Deputy Minister, we need trade to grow, to strengthen our stability and to deal with our current account deficit. Europe remains our second largest important trading partner, recently overtaken by Asia, our second-largest important trading partner. Yes, we are making progress to add other partners, but we cannot replace European market overnight. Germany is still our largest exporter as well as the United Kingdom.
Europe is part of a power block in the world, but our relationship with Europe is not good. Are you not concerned that this strained relationship will eventually impact negatively on trade? Can you reassure us that the European market is important to South Africa?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I agree with the hon Van R Koornhof that Europe is our second-largest trade partner, but I also want to indicate that the reason why our trade with the European Union has actually fallen is because of the problems that they have been encountering in their own economy. As we speak, their economy is currently growing at almost 1%, and that is why it is important for us to look north - as we do, and to look east - as we have done, to find other trade partners. I do not agree with Mr N J J van R Koorhof that our relations with Europe are so bad that our trade is suffering.
A few weeks ago we were in the G20 meeting; most of the European countries are looking forward to doing business on a more sustainable level with the sub-Saharan Africa, looking at South Africa as their entry point. I want to assure you that we enjoy very good relations with Europe, contrary to the view that some people continue to hold. Once the environment has also been created for us to trade on the basis of benefitting everyone, where we as a country benefits whilst Europe also benefits, we will proceed in that line. [Applause.]
QUESTION 14
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 134
QUESTION 25
Question 14:
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Hon Deputy Speaker, let me just get my papers right. Yes, I've got them right. The response to the question is that the number of registered vehicles, as per 31 January 2014, per categories indicated is as follows: local authorities 19 123, provincial government departments 23 283, national government departments 7 601, corporate customers 383 654, private vehicles 468.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is a point of order. Is that a point of order?
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, I think the Minister is answering the wrong question.
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Madam Deputy Speaker, Question 14 is as follows:
How many individual cars travelling on the Gauteng e-toll road system, as measured by the gantries, are using e-tags and (b) what percentage of the total number of cars on the Gauteng freeways, constructed as part of the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP), did this represent as at 1 February 2014?
The 1st February 2014 comes immediately after the 31st of January. The total number of vehicles is: 912 048. But I just want to indicate that not all the registered vehicles use the network daily. The use of the network by the registered vehicles varied from 23% up to 28,6% as at 1 February 2014. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 134
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT
Mr I M OLLIS: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. In fact, that is exactly the problem, isn't it, Minister: that only 23% are actually using the roads with their e-tags. According to the SA National Roads Agency Limited, Sanral, there are 2,5 million unique drivers and cars operating on the Gauteng freeways. Yet, your answer indicates that only 900 000 have bought e-tags and only 23% of those are actually using them.
The public do not and will not support e-tolls when they know that this Nkandla-run government has wasted their fuel levy money on fire pools, helipads, fast jets for Minister Sisulu, shopping trips to New York, flashing cars in blue-light brigades and repeated bailouts for the SA Airways, the SAA.
Sanral has misled the public by claiming that over 1,2 million e-tags have been sold. But we have now heard that there are only 900 000 in operation, and only 23% are actually on the roads. With so few drivers using e-tags, would the Minister not concede that the public are voting with their feet and saying "no", and will you not shut down the unpopular e-toll before everyone votes DA? [Time expired.] [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Yes, thank you, hon Connie September. I think it is important for the hon Ollies not to conflate issues here, because you yourself acknowledged in the committee that because you only pay after using the road, you actually pay six times more. And I just want to say that it is important that we don't come here and mislead the House.
The one thing that you must realise is that we are talking about 23% of those who use the roads daily. There are many people who don't use the roads daily. And I just want to indicate that, as the Department of Transport and as Sanral, we are very happy that through the implementation of this Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project we have been able to realise some of the big challenges that we have with the electronic national administration traffic information system, eNaTIS, and we are busy cleaning it up.
I think it is important that we realise that what we are reporting here is the information that we have in our system, as per the question that you asked. We are not going to answer questions that you didn't ask in this House. So, I just want to say to you that the figure that you asked for was with regards to implementation from 30 December to 31 January. This is the information that we have.
As we speak, there are more details that we will be able to give you to indicate how this process has grown. Even if you go to many of the outlets, be they at Pick n Pay or to Sanral outlets in the malls, you will find that the number of people that are registering daily is increasing. Just from 3 December until today, more than 300 000 vehicles have been registered.
I would want to say to you: Don't underestimate the intelligence of the people of South Africa. They know what they want. [Interjections.] They want world-class roads, and they got those roads in Gauteng. They want more of that. In fact, as we speak, only yesterday the Limpopo province gave Sanral an additional 1 600 kilometres. That is an acknowledgement of the capacity that Sanral has to be build, operate, manage and maintain the roads of South Africa.
I just want to say to the hon Ollies that you cannot use e-tolls to tell the people of Gauteng that they must vote for the DA. Don't underestimate their intelligence. [Interjections.] They know the party that brought them liberation; they know the party that will improve their lives; they know the party that will be able to take them forward. And it is their intention to move South Africa forward. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Krumbock?
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Sorry, point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, Rule 113 ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I didn't hear that, sorry.
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: I have a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: I rise on Rule 113(8): The response from Ministers to supplementary questions is limited to two minutes. On the past two occasions the Ministers have gone way over their allocated two minutes, and I ask that you ask the Table to please indicate to you when their two minutes have expired.
Mr G R KRUMBOCK
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 134
Mr J H STEENHUISEN
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Minister, the facts show that this kind of e-toll road often fails, as it has done in Taipei, India, California, Australia, Portugal, Hong Kong, Edinburgh, Greater Manchester and elsewhere. The public in those countries and cities rejected the e-toll system owing to pricing, and, in most cases, the system went bankrupt or was voted out.
With the great number of international failures making the Gauteng e-toll system a huge risk, the huge costs involved and the great lack of public support in Gauteng, would the Minister not concede that this e-toll system was a bad choice to fund our roads, and shut it down, or should the public vote for the DA so that we can do you a favour and shut it down for you? [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: I think that we should also bring to this House information about the tolling system on Chapman's Peak here in the Western Cape, because it is very important that people don't come here and mislead the House. I also want to say, hon member, it is important that when you bring up some ...
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Is the hon Minister allowed to say people come here, referring to the DA, to mislead the House? [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Hon Speaker, can I address you?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, hon Minister. I will look into that.
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: The information that the hon member referred to is part of the information that we are busy with in terms of our own research: to be able to get an understanding of what is happening in many parts of the world. Also, for your information, many countries are actually coming to South Africa to learn how to do this particular model of urban tolling – and especially in view of the fact that this is part of the process of South Africa's response to climate change and is encapsulated in our climate-change response strategy. I would want to say that the DA has actually ...
Setswana:
... DA e tshwere ntlha e mo mogatleng. Lo nnetse go tlhodia Maaforikaborwa. Le lebetse gore batho ba ba tlhoka ditsela; ga ba fitlhelele ditirelo tsa puso tse di jaaka dikolo le maokelo, bogolo thata bomme ba ba imileng ba ba tlhokafalelang mo ditseleng. Ke ka moo re reng, fa re bua mo Ntlong e, re gopole gore ...
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, there is a point of order. What is your point of order, hon member?
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, we would love to know what the Minister is saying, but there is no interpretation. [Interjections.] So, if you could sort that out, please. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, hon Minister.
Setswana:
TONA YA DIPALANGWA: Gore ba bo ba sa itse dipuo tsa Maaforikaborwa, ga se bothata jwa me. Ke batla go bua jaana ke re, maabane, mokgatlho o wa DA o ile wa seka wa dumelela molao o o tshwanetseng go re thusa go tsweletsa pele le go tlhabolola maemo a bomme.
Bomme ba Maaforikaborwa ba tlhokofalela mo ditseleng ba ya go belega ka ntlha ya go tlhoka ditsela. Jaanong, gompieno mokgatlho o o boa gape o batla go tla go dirisa kago ya ditsela mo Gauteng, e e tlisitsweng ke puso e ya ANC, gonne e batla gore maemo a Aforikaborwa a nne kwa setlhoeng. [Nako e fedile.] [Legofi.]
Adv A D ALBERTS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 134
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT
Adv A D ALBERTS: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Minister, I am glad that your house is in order and that your papers are in order, but, most certainly, Sanral's house is not in order. We know about the billing problems that exist. What is important, though, is trying to get certainty as to how people are supposed to be prosecuted. We know that the Act talks about civil action, and there is also criminal liability. What exactly will Sanral be using? Will they be arresting people, or will they be using the civil action procedure to try to get the money that is supposedly owed to them? Thank you.
Setswana:
TONA YA DIPALANGWA: Eo ke potso e nngwe e e leng gore e kwa ntlheng. Jaaka Rre Alberts e le rramolao, o tshwanetse a be a itse gore tsela e e tla diriswang ke Sanral ga se go tšhotšhisa batho. O a itse gore kgotlhatshekelo le tsamaiso ya molao mo Aforikaborwa, di teng. Ka moo, ke tla kopa gore o botse potso e e maleba, rra. [Legofi.]
Mrs M V MAFOLO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 134
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT
Mrs M V MAFOLO: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, what are the advantages that the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project has brought to the Gauteng province and the broader economy? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Sanral, supported by the University of Cape Town's Graduate School of Business, did a study on the economic impact of congestion and insufficient maintenance of the freeways. But one must also remember the work that was done by the SA Chamber of Commerce and Industry, which indicated concerns about the impact of congestion and insufficient maintenance on business.
Based on conservative assumptions, the cost of congestion, on what was called the Ben Schoeman Highway, amounts to R15 million per hour. That excludes matters related to fuel and maintenance of vehicles, late freight deliveries, lost business opportunities and accident costs.
I just want to indicate that the benefits accruing to the people and economy of Gauteng can best be explained by the number of business opportunities that have been created, especially the development of the SMME sector, the job opportunities that have accrued to young people in particular - more than 1 300 of them are employed to manage the system – and the efficiencies that the cost of doing business has been able to deliver in particular in Gauteng.
I know that members of the opposition know exactly what benefits have accrued to the people of Gauteng. One must also remember that owing to the input from the public and the Inter-Ministerial Committee, IMC, that was driven by the Deputy President, we have been able to realise a reduction in the tariff, and the exemption of taxis and buses – in particular, public transport that is used by ordinary, poor people in Gauteng.
I want to thank you, hon chairperson of the portfolio committee, for raising this particular important point, because as we speak, the people of Gauteng are giving an indication that they have been able to reduce the amount of time they spend just waiting for the movement of vehicles on the roads in Gauteng.
QUESTION 4
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 135
QUESTION 14
Question 4:
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Deputy Minister, the Gobodo report is a draft report as we have explained in the public domain. We did however take the recommendations into account. We engaged with the Chief Executive Officer of the Universal Service and Access Agency of SA, Usaasa, the Chairperson of the board and the whole Usaasa Board. We sought to secure an informal settlement of some of the issues and that was unsuccessful.
So, we presented the full draft report to the board; they responded, basically rejecting the findings. Of course, they presented a point of view that several parties that were affected by the report were not actually consulted. We then took the Gobodo draft report, with the board's reply and gave them to the office of the Chief State Law Advisor. He perused it and suggested a process because he pointed out that he does not have the forensic capacity to pursue a further investigation.
We then took it further by engaging with the Usaasa Board on 28 January 2014 and presented our view to them that we are going to have a further forensic investigation. They accepted that and a process has begun. Certainly, once it has been finalised, and if there is a legal case for it, then an action will be taken. We have no choice!
The board, in the first instance, will have to act and the Ministry will have to act appropriately. We will obviously deal with issues that may or may not affect board members, if they do. The board will deal with the management that is affected. That is what we can do within the law.
Of course, we would like this process to be completed expeditiously, but we also have to recognise people's legal rights. When we heckle forward too fast, we find that we end up in courts and the outcome takes much longer to secure. It is frustrating, but of course people have rights. We are after all parliamentarians and we have to abide by the law.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Minister. Is there a supplementary question hon Killian?
Mrs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 135
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Mrs J D KILIAN: Yes, hon Deputy Speaker. I beg to differ from the Minister that this is a draft report because I have in my hand an analysis conducted by the Chief Director of the Legal Services of the Department of Communications, Adv Nkatha, who refers to this as a forensic report by Gobodo. He also goes into depth relating to what was found by the Gobodo Forensic Auditors. It must be stated that this is a story of a mafia-like operation which is utilising public funds to further their own nests.
Mr Minister, we believe that you do not negotiate with mafia-style people. You dismissed the board and you faced the legal consequences. What is confined and stated in this summary report is hair-raising of insider trading, public funds spent, 100% subsidy given to Cell-C, Mthinte Communications. We all remember the SABC finding on the ICT Indaba where Mthinte Communications benefitted hugely again – irregular payments. The appointment of the CEO is irregular. So, clearly you need to clean up the operation and let us start again. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: There is no difference between us and cleaning up. We on the other hand think it is sensible to abide by the law. As far as the concerned lawyer's report is referred to, it does not actually constitute the full set of legal opinions in this regard. It was an initial report and it was also as I remember it – notice I said as I remember it – that report was also given to the Usaasa Board. A million things happen in a day in this Communications department. If it was not given; it is going to be done this very afternoon. But as I remember it was given to them and they rejected that report.
In fact, the point I want to stress is that we do not agree with the view that we should just fire the board, fire the CEO and face the legal consequences because then you are caught up in a time-consuming and costly quagmire. Really, it will be much longer to resolve the matter. There is no difference between us. We must deal with this matter decisively and do it correctly. On that score there is no difference.
What there is a difference about is the meaning of the report that was produced by the advocate and how does it actually help us to resolve the issue. In short, there is no difference between us and what is to be the outcome in the sense that we need to move forward and let us clean it up if there is corruption as claimed in the original allegation.
As far as it not being a draft report, as I recall it, it actually does say "draft" on the first page but we can check that. It occurs to me now that we did subsequently give Usaasa Board's reply to Gobodo. We felt that there were people who were being targeted for wrongdoing there but have not been consulted – and it is certainly the case. There is a fundamental flaw with the report. Those people will take us to court because they were not interviewed. As I remember it again, a representative of Gobodo did confirm that they did not interview at least some of the people whom they have said had done wrong.
Ms M R SHINN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 135
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Ms M R SHINN: Hon Minister, the catalyst in the sordid affair, Mothibi Rammusi, is a former employee of the Department of Communications. His crony in crime Zami Nkosi, is the CEO of Usaasa and a former work-colleague of Usaasa's chairperson, Phumla Radebe. Perhaps they honed their opportunistic skills at the knees of your deputy director-generals, DDGs. Two of your deputy director-generals are being investigated by the Public Service Commission. This was requested by Parliament's Ethics Committee following its investigation into the hon Pule's corrupt ICT Indaba matter. This committee found them unreliable and untrustworthy in their attempt to prevent the committee from uncovering the truth.
In addition, the Public Protector's report on the ICT Indaba matter highlighted the rapacious way in which the DDGs stole the idea from the organiser who approached them for sponsorship. Now, you have been asked, via the Public Protector's report on the SABC, to discipline one of these DDGs for improperly influencing an executive appointment at the broadcaster. Perhaps your department is a school for stunt rolls.
Hon Minister, what measures have you put in place to ensure that all staff in your Ministry, department and entities have no current or planned business interests arising from the programmes of the department or its entities and that they all understand that they are not in government to get the inside track on lucrative business opportunities?
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: The Department of Public Service and Administration has provided guidelines in that regard. That is being processed and has been processed by the director-general. Furthermore, we have approached the forensic investigation team to look into several transgressions of officials within the department, not least, the cases that you referred to. It is a painstakingly slow process. I suppose all of us would like to see it expeditiously resolved.
People who are guilty must face the charges as it were the consequences and those who are wrongly accused must be acquitted of any allegations that might smear them, and so on. In short, we are doing what we can. You must show us what it is that we can do that we are not doing.
Let me also say that all of these transgressions occurred before 10 July 2013 when I was appointed. Yesterday for example, in the afternoon we have established that somebody who was appointed recently in a senior position it seems, had in his previous position transgressed the public service regulations and was sanctioned for it – in fact demoted. We also discovered that an official in the department was aware of that and there is documentation to proof that. We immediately informed them yesterday and this morning that we are proceeding with the relevant processes against them. So, only yesterday afternoon was yet another case of a transgression and we have acted speedily. I am not sure how much faster one can be.
We are very clear when we have to deal with corruption and we will also be very clear that sometimes it could be a case of people not being corrupt but being smeared for political or other reasons. There are feuds that occur within the department. The way people actually settle some of these scores, is to wrongly accuse others. Yes, some of these people are legitimately facing disciplinary processes and so on, but others are victims of feuding within the department. So, we have to be careful about how we manage this.
Again, I must say that the one case that we have proceeded against has ended up in the court of law and the person accused of corruption is now saying that he is a whistleblower and that he is being victimised. So, we are spending endless periods of time rebutting that and it is costing the department a substantial amount of money. Next, you are going to ask us why we spent so much money on lawyers when you are in fact also suggesting to us that the cost be escalated by acting recklessly on our side.
Ms M R MORUTOA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 135
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Ms M R MORUTOA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I welcome the explanation by the hon Minister and we do have confidence in your explanation, hon Minister. I suppose we only have one Minister of Communications in this executive, and that is you. We expect responses from you. Therefore, I would like to follow-up by asking: Could the Minister further elaborate on the scope of anti-corruption activities that he is undertaking across the communications sector; also specify the entities and companies that may be covered by these investigations; and which state agencies are assisting with these investigations? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: There is the Special Investigation Unit, SIU, proclamation on the SA Post Office. There is the SIU proclamation on Media Corner's contract that was secured by the department. There is also the SIU investigation into the SABC that we have reported to Parliament two weeks ago. We have promised that we are going to act on that and we have done that.
We met with the SABC Board last week and told them that they have to provide legal representatives. We will engage the attorneys concerned and the SIU. I have personally spoken to the SIU's head twice in the last two weeks. Yesterday, I received a report in that regard. I once again spoke to the chairperson of the board on Monday at the information, communication and technology conference conference, and we are acting upon those issues.
Then there is also the Public Protector's report and indicated what we have done with regards to it many times already in the last few days. Within five minutes of receiving the report, which we received 24 hours later than we should, we gave it to the Office of the Chief State Law Advisor. He came back to us in 72 hours and the board met within 24 hours of the report been given to them.
They met subsequently five days later and four days later they met with us: the Minister and Deputy Minister; the DG and the team from the Department of Communications. They have promised that very shortly – by the end of this week or early next week – they will tell us what they are going to do about that Public Protectors' report, the process thereof and which issues they think are legally tenable to pursue and the timelines for that.
Once they finish that report, we will then respond and say where we agree or disagree. Can we stress also with regards to that: It is just wrong to think that I am a Minister, therefore there is not legislative basis for it or corporate governance rules or norms or provision for it. A Minister cannot actually take over the rule of a board with regard to transgressions of senior executives in any state-owned company. So, the call by the opposition party for the Minister to just go ahead and fire people and so on as some of them are doing as they will is entirely illegal.
Finally, as I repeat, yesterday, we found out about something that the DG reported to us. She chaired the panel on the decision that was made with regards to the senior that was recently appointed as a manager, and we went ahead within 24 hours to act against the two personnel - the official, as I said, who knew about the case and did not inform the panel chaired by the DG and the person who it seems had transgressed the public service norms. Thank you.
QUESTION 26
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 136
QUESTION 4
Question 26:
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the public listening campaign for the allocation process has started. A document entitled the "General Published Reasons for the decisions on the allocation of rights and effort in the traditional line fish fishery" is available on the website of the department and a copy has been sent to the hon member.
The appeals process has been extended to 30 April 2014 and a public awareness campaign will be held to inform people of the process. In the interim, extensions have been given to those who previously held rights but have not been given new allocations yet. Thank you.
Mr M A CELE (on behalf of hon M Johnson):
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 136
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
Mr M A CELE (on behalf of hon M Johnson): Hon Deputy Speaker, I thanks to the Minister for the elaborate answer that she has given. Firstly, could the Minister give feedback on the responses that have been given during the current public outreach programme that is being conducted in response to the permit applications? Secondly, what is the relationship between this process and the Marine Living Resources Amendment Bill? Thanks.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the listening campaign is part of the Marine Living Resources Amendment Act. It stipulates that after rights were allocated by a panel from the department, the Marine Living Resources Amendment Act then places responsibility upon the Minister to have an appeal process to listen to any complaints which may rise from the public. I thank you.
Mr P VAN DALEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 136
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
Mr P VAN DALEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, taking note of the fact that you have extended the appeals' time in the fishing rights allocation process to 28 April and the fact that you have redeployed the delegated authority, Mr Desmond Stevens, and his sidekick, Mr Dennis Fredericks, as a result of their incompetence, these facts coupled with the pending court case and your assertion mean that you did not realise that the allocation process had such a destructive effect on established fishing communities like Kalk Bay, to name but one. Is it your intention to try and fix this unfixable situation through the appeals process or would you consider redoing this corrupted and irrational allocation process from scratch? If not, you will become known as a snollygoster.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I take exception to the name-calling by the hon member. The hon member also called me, after a portfolio committee meeting, a bitch. So, I take exception to the name-calling and that is the answer I have.
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The first assertion by the Minister is correct and I await your ruling on it. But, the second assertion by the Minister is misleading and I would like you to ask her to withdraw that. [Interjections.] The member did not call her the "b" word. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon van Dalen.
Mr P VAN DALEN: Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do you want to withdraw the name-calling that you did just now?
Mr P VAN DALEN: Deputy Speaker, if you look into the dictionary ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No! No! No! [Interjections.]
Mr P VAN DALEN: ... I'm not calling anybody a name, I'm saying that the Minister...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No! No! No! Hon van Dalen, what I just want to know is: Are you withdrawing that name-calling?
Mr P VAN DALEN: That last part, the snollygoster? I will withdraw.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Madam Deputy Speaker, as usual, the hon member van Dalen, is completely misleading the public and I have very little answers for him because there is no truth in what he has asked.
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, my second point on the point of order was not addressed, and I would like the Minister to withdraw her assertion or allegation?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I heard the Minister saying not here but at a portfolio committee the hon member called her a bitch. As I'm sitting here, I have no way to verify that. So, I can't say she must withdraw. It's something we need verify whether it's true or not true. You know that but I don't know that as I'm sitting here. So, I am unable to say to her that she must withdraw. It's an allegation that has to be verified and then at the next meeting you will tell her to withdraw if that is the case. Please!
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, may I address you still further on this point of order. [Interjections.] Rule 63 states that using offensive language is unparliamentary. So, while I accept that you need to look at the records and determine whether the member said it or not. The use of offensive language in Parliament is unparliamentary. So, I ask you to ask the Minister to withdraw that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No! Please continue, hon Minister. Please!
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, are you going to give a ruling on Rule 63. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. Not now! Not now! I am not going to give it now! Please. I am not going to give the ruling now. [Interjections.]
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, can somebody enlighten us on what that snollygoster is?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, can you continue to answer the question.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Madam Deputy Speaker, Mr Desmond Stevens has not been demoted, he has taken leave. He has been a director in the past. He has only been an acting director-general. If he goes back to his position of director it does not mean that he has been demoted. As far as I know, Mr Dennis Fredericks is on sick leave and I have no idea of what the hon member is speaking about. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C N Z ZIKALALA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 136
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
Mrs C N Z ZIKALALA: Deputy Speaker, can the Minister advise as to the measures or plans in place to increase the roll out of farming equipment and other logistical assistance to rural communities in and around Mpumalanga. I thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the department has intervened in the Mpumalanga Agriculture department by assisting them with planting additional land. The Comprehensive Agricultural Support programme, CASP, has supported Mpumalanga to provide infrastructure to smallholder farmers by assisting them with production inputs, training of farmers, recruitment, resourcing and upgrading qualifications of extension offices.
The Department of Rural Development and Land Reform in conjunction with the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries have an extensive programme of land reform projects for the support of smallholder farmers. The upgrading of the Lowveld College and the establishment of the Marapyane College in conjunction with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform has assisted the development of agriculture in the province. I thank you.
Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Deputy Speaker, my apology, with all the interaction, I thought we were still on the previous question. Thanks.
Mr P VAN DALEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: We never finished the other question. There are still people, including me, who want to ask questions on the other question if there are still places to ask questions.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Which other question are you talking about?
Mr P VAN DALEN: It is Question 26. It was only the member who put the question and me who asked follow-up questions. Only two people asked follow-up questions and now we are on Question 5.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No! No! No! Hon van Dalen, we are on Question 26 that was asked by Mr Johnson.
Mr P VAN DALEN: Yes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That's the question.
Mr P VAN DALEN: Yes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon Cele took the supplementary question ... [Interjections.]
Mr P VAN DALEN: Yes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You took the second supplementary question, the hon Zikalala took the third supplementary question and now, I just asked the hon Dudley for the fourth supplementary question, which is the number of people who must ask supplementary questions.
Mr P VAN DALEN: But, they are talking about the question after that one gain. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Which one is that now?
Mr P VAN DALEN: Question 5.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you must be confusing something!
Mrs C DUDLEY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 136
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, in connection with Question 26 you have said that there appeared to be legitimate concerns either relating to poor administration of the applications or questionable judgments by delegated officials. How many cases have you discovered where these reasons were applicable and what steps is the department taking to make sure that this does not happen again or that it is being dealt with? Thanks.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Deputy Speaker the appeals process will give me those answers. Once I have the appeals process done by the law firm, Harris, Nupen, Molebatsi Attorneys, I will be able to answer your question.
QUESTION 5
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 137
QUESTION 26
Question 5:
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Department of Agriculture in Mpumalanga will plough more than 90 hectares of land during this season. The local communities received production inputs such as dry beans, cow peas, fertilisers and vegetable seeds for winter production. We have repaired their tractors and they are currently operational. The department has invited local farmers with tractors and implements to participate. I thank you.
Mr P VAN DALEN: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Mechanisation Project is at national level where each province has received tractors and equipment. And the issue of the tractors that were left to rust in the Vrede sports ground was also a very contentious issue discussed at our portfolio committee. We never got a report back on that and despite repeated requests from the, now ousted, the hon ANC member Salamuddi Abram. Can the Minister give us an update on those rusted tractors and those that were dished out in Nkandla, or is that also a classified part of the President's security upgrade? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Once the full audit of the tractors has been conducted, the answer will be given. [Interjections.]
Ms M N PHALISO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 137
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
Ms M N PHALISO: Hon Deputy Speaker, thanks to the hon Minister for her response. Could the Minister outline the progress in Mpumalanga province on the implementation of the Comprehensive Agriculture Support programme and how it has contributed to the economy of the province? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Mpumalanga province has been one of the provinces which have grown agriculture extensively. The wonderful thing about agriculture in this country is that it had been in decline since 1970; but the industry broke even with job creation and job losses. We had been losing jobs since 1970, but by 2012 we had started growing jobs in agriculture.
In your own constituency, the farmers are actually acknowledging and thanking us for this. Right now, Grain SA is in a conference and acknowledged the markets and thanked this government for the markets we have created. Mpumalanga is one of those provinces which have developed small holder farmers into export farmers. It is now successfully exporting maize, grain and peas to the World Food programme, a project which we are doing in conjunction with the World Food programme in Lesotho. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms B D FERGUSON
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 137
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
Ms B D FERGUSON: Hon Speaker, could the hon Minister just advise the House whether the tractors and farming implements that are lying idle are suitable for use in the areas that they have been allocated to and, if so, what analysis has been done in this regard? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon member, perhaps you do not understand the language I speak. I have just said that the audit is being compiled and once it is conducted, I will be able to answer your question. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is the hon Berend in the House?
Ms B D FERGUSON: Hon Deputy Speaker, I moved across and pressed the incorrect button. Thank you.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Deputy Speaker, may I quickly address you on a concern with regard to responses by some of the executive members. Some of them are really doing their utmost in terms of replying to questions in a dignified manner because this House must hold the executive to account. For several weeks we have seen, the hon Minister Joemat-Pettersson, talking down to Members of this House and she has just done that to one of my members again. [Interjections.] I do not think that is appropriate. All of us serve the public and the executive must be held accountable to this House and I think we should all respect that. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hear you, hon Kilian, and I am sure you will agree with me that the Chair regulates the proceedings of the House, but it is not possible to dictate to the Ministers how they should reply to their questions. I am sure your concern can surely be addressed if you could write to the Speaker. The Speaker will talk to the Deputy President. But if that is being raised here I am not able to dictate to the Ministers how to respond to their questions. Order, hon members, order!
With regard to the point of order, hon Kilian, I will look at the rules and come back with my ruling on that particular issue.
QUESTION 27
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 138
QUESTION 5
Question 27:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Deputy Speaker, in terms of the Code of Good Practice for employment and the conditions for the Special Public Works programmes, the participation targets for EPWP employment must include 55% women, 40% youth and 20% people with disabilities.
Since the state of the nation address of 2013, for the period 1 April to 31 December 2013, a total of 862 291 work opportunities were created. Of these work opportunities, 422 619, that is 49%, were work opportunities for the youth. The EPWP continues to advocate youth participation in its implementation and in its National Rural Youth Service Corps, Narysec, programme throughout the country.
The Community Work programme, CWP, is a programme under the EPWP. In terms of its progress, for the period 1 April to 31 December 2013, a total of 174 855 work opportunities were created under the CWP. Of these opportunities, 84 776, that is 48%, were work opportunities for the youth.
The EPWP has provided beneficiaries with work experience and training. Training relates either to on the job training, short courses, skills programmes, learnerships and artisan training. Work experience together with the training offered strengthens the beneficiaries' chances of obtaining permanent jobs. In terms of research which was conducted under the 2012 EPWP mid-term review, 87% of the interviewed beneficiaries were employed, of which the majority were still on the EPWP. Thank you.
Ms N D NGCENGWANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 138
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Ms N D NGCENGWANE: Hon Deputy Speaker I thank ther Minister for the comprehensive response. It really demonstrates that the ANC-led government does indeed have a good story to tell.
Noting the progress report as presented, what future plans does the Minister have to enhance the progress outlined? In other words, how does the Minister intend assisting these young men and women to access funding from government in order to become self-employed? And, how does the Minister intend assisting them to become co-ops and create more job opportunities for the country, thus boosting the economy in the process? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: In terms of the decision taken by Cabinet, we have upscaled the EPWP under the commission's Public Employment programmes, which is going to be led by the President and Deputy President. We are co-ordinating and pulling together all the programmes of the different departments so that there is that co-ordination and links amongst those departments. We are working together with a number of departments like the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, the Labour Department, the Services Sector Education and Training Authority, Sseta, and a number of other entities.
The new approach is one which says we must be able to help these kids or hand over to the different departments with the relevant funding entities, so that it does not just end with the Public Works, but becomes a chain. Thank you.
Mr J J VAN DER LINDE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 138
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mr J J VAN DER LINDE: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
Afrikaans:
Dankie vir die antwoord, agb Minister. Ek wil egter vra watter riglyne u departement in plek het om seker te maak dat alle werkloses in die gemeenskap 'n gelyke kans het om werk te kry, in die verskillende werkskeppingsprogramme. Met ons oorsigbesoek in die Wes-Kaap, was munisipaliteite se antwoord hierop dat 'n databasis gehou word en die rekenaar aangewend word om name te trek.
Dit wil sê dat raadslede en politieke partye geensins betrokke is in die proses nie. Slegs in een geval het die burgemeester duidelik laat blyk dat hy hom nie laat voorskryf nie. Hulle doen aanstellings soos hulle voel.
My vraag dus aan die departement is: Watter vaste riglyne is daar in plek om te sorg dat die belastingbetaler se geld aangewend word om die werkloses op 'n gelyke basis te bereik en dat partylidmaatskap nie 'n rol speel nie. Ek dank u.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: As the programme is implemented mainly at the level of municipalities and of course in some departments, our guidelines were just broad principles where we talked about people in the wards who need to call all the stakeholders so that they are able to choose their appropriate candidates.
However, we have realised that there has been a lot of infighting, and in some instances, the EPWP jobs are used as an instrument by the political parties. In fact, there has been a very big storm here in the Western Cape about how the EPWP has been excluding certain people and being driven by certain councillors in this particular province. We have now decided that we are putting very, very strict guidelines in place which must be followed by everybody. It is on record that the EPWP has been very divisive here in the manner that it has been implemented by the City of Cape Town. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L RAMATLAKANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 138
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Hon Deputy Speaker, The Minister's reply to this question in terms of the opportunities created, the numbers are really impressive. Within those impressive numbers, I would like to ask you whether provisions have been made for those who went through the programme, if there is a concerted effort created or made that they are infact skilled and if there are portable skills created? Can you indicate, within those impressive numbers, how many young people have in fact acquired portable skills which were created when given those particular jobs?
We know that one of the challenges that we have is a shortage of skills, so if there is no provision built into those particular opportunities for portable skills, then it basically becomes an exercise that does not necessarily benefit the country, including the one that you referred to. Can you indicate, within those impressive numbers, what those portable skills are?
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: The reason why we are talking about co-ordination amongst the different departments is precisely to ensure that once we have trained the people we are able to link them to the other programmes so that they are able to develop.
Unfortunately, at this moment, I am unable to give hon Ramatlakane the detailed skills as per the categories which he has requested, but we should be able to write to him and give him that information. I am very happy that everybody sees the seriousness of this programme. Even though they are not fulltime jobs, some of them are long term, yet even those who were calling these jobs "bogus jobs" are using them now to campaign in the country. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, time allocated for questions has expired and outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard.
NOTICES OF MOTION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 139
QUESTION FOR ORAL REPLY
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr J M MATSHOBA: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates building a united nation and promote
social cohesion.
Ms T E LISHIVHA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 139
Mr J M MATSHOBA
Ms T E LISHIVHA: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates social gains achieved since 1994 in
South Africa.
Mr C L GOLOLO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 139
Ms T E LISHIVHA
Mr C L GOLOLO: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates ways to curb the consistent illegal
mining in South Africa.
Ms L N MJOBO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 139
Mr C L GOLOLO
Ms L N MJOBO: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC
That the House debates ways to fight the rise of occult-
related crimes, especially amongst the youth.
Mrs P A MOCUMI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 139
Ms L N MJOBO
Mrs P A MOCUMI: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates strengthening and increasing community participation in crime prevention and safety initiatives.
Dr W G JAMES
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 139
Mrs P A MOCUMI
Dr W G JAMES: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA
That the House debates what government is doing to reverse
the monumental trade deficit accumulated under President
Jacob Zuma's leadership as the facts indicated that we have
recorded trade surplus of R44 billion in 2011, where
the trade deficit of R34 billion in 2012 doubled to R69 billion by 2013 and is deteriorating as we speak.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 March 2014 Take: 140
Dr W G JAMES
KILLING OF SCHOOL CHILDREN IN NIGERIA AT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COLLEGE
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House–
(1) notes with sadness the recent killing of at least 59 school children in Nigeria's Federal Government College by Boko Haram fighters;
(2) further notes that the killers targeted only male children and spared girls at the Federal Government College in Yobe State, which teaches pupils aged 11 to 18;
(3) remembers that gunmen attacked at 02:00 and hurled explosives into residential buildings, spraying gunfire into rooms and hacked or burned some students to death;
(4) recalls that similar killings happened last year in September 2013 in which 40 children were killed;
(5) acknowledges that Yobe State has been one of the hardest hit areas in Boko Haram's four-and-a-half years uprising, which has killed thousands of people; and
(6) conveys our heartfelt condolences to the families of all those who lost their lives and calls upon all the parties who don't see eye-to-eye to resolve their differences peacefully.
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at 17:15.
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