Hansard: Second Reading debate: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Bill [B – 2012]

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 31 May 2012

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Minutes

THURSDAY, 31 MAY 2012

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PROCEEDINGS OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

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The House met at 14:06.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

APPROPRIATION BILL

Resumption of debate on Vote No 1 – The Presidency (Reply by President):

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of the House, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to sincerely thank hon members for their participation in the Presidency's Budget Vote.

The hon Minister of Arts and Culture, Mr Paul Mashatile, reminded us yesterday that today, 31 May, is the anniversary of the formation of the Union of South Africa, which formalised the exclusion of the black majority in our country. Addressing a meeting of the SA Native Convention, which met in Bloemfontein's Waaihoek township in March 1909 to consider means of protesting against the draft Union of South Africa constitution, one of the founding fathers of the African National Congress said, and I quote:

The white people of this country have formed what is known as the Union of South Africa – a union in which we have no voice in the making of laws and no part in their administration.

We have called you, therefore, to this Conference so that we can together devise ways and means of forming our national union for the purpose of creating national unity and defending our rights and privileges.

It is important to remember such landmarks in our history, lest we join the school of thought that preaches that reconciliation should mean that everything that happened before 1994 must be forgotten and must not provide lessons for what we do today.

Writing in 1953, ANC scholar and thinker R V Selope Thema eloquently described what life was like for black South Africans in 1910, when the Union was formed. He said the following, and I quote:

In those days the black man was treated as a beast of burden. He was knocked and kicked about with impunity. In the magistrates'courts his voice was hardly heard and his evidence hardly believed.

He was stopped at street corners by policemen demanding the production of his pass and his tax receipt. He was not allowed to walk on the pavements and had to dodge motor cars in the streets.

He was not allowed to travel first, second or third class on the trains. He travelled in trucks almost similar to those used for cattle and horses.

Politically he had no voice in the making and administration of the laws. Economically he was kept in a state of abject poverty.

Years later, in 1961, Chief Albert Luthuli, in his acceptance speech on receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo, described South Africa as follows:

It is a museum piece in our time, a hangover from the dark past of mankind, a relic of an age which everywhere else is dead or dying.

Here, the cult of race superiority and of white supremacy is worshipped like a god. Few white people escape corruption and many of their children learn to believe that white men are unquestionably superior, efficient, clever, industrious and capable; that black men are, equally unquestionably, inferior, slothful, stupid, evil and clumsy.

We also recall the words of President Nelson Mandela in his statement from the dock in the Rivonia Trial. He had this to say:

The lack of human dignity experienced by Africans is the direct result of the policy of white supremacy. White supremacy implies black inferiority. Legislation designed to preserve white supremacy entrenches this notion.

Madiba went on to describe attitudes which, at the time, seriously impacted on the dignity of Africans. He said:

Menial tasks in South Africa are invariably performed by Africans. When anything has to be carried or cleaned the white man will look around for an African to do it for him, whether the African is employed by him or not. Because of this sort of attitude, whites tend to regard Africans as a separate breed. They do not look upon them as people with families of their own; they do not realise that they have emotions.

If hon members quote the Constitution selectively and quote the rights selectively, whilst quoting Mandela on the other side, we still have a lot of work to do to help them. [Applause.] For this Mandela that we like to quote was very clear on the issues of this country and he was very clear about what we fought for, as we are all clear.

Hon Speaker, I am reminding the House of this, because we should not lose sight of the fact that this country has a history, a very, very painful history whose deep scars still show. [Applause.] If you care to know what these scars are, if you go to Rondebosch as opposed to Gugulethu, you will see the scars. The scars still show, even in this heavenly, well-governed province. [Interjections.] Scars still show no matter who governs one province.

Life did not begin in 1994. No amount of denial will take this historical fact away. [Applause.] We are building a new nation out of the ashes of colonialism and apartheid. We are building a new nation out of a country where to be black meant subjugation, indignity, inhumane treatment, humiliation and dispossession simply because those in power believed that black people were lesser human beings by virtue of their colour and race.

Scores suffered, some paid the supreme price, others left the country of their birth, as they pursued the struggle for freedom, justice, equality, democracy and human dignity in order to have the Constitution about which we talk very casually today. Therefore we cannot take our freedom lightly. We cannot take the rights that were won in 1994 lightly and use them for political point-scoring. [Applause.]

Out of that pain we must build a new society together and bury hatred and mistrust. Madiba directed us to move in that direction in his inauguration address in 1994, when he declared, and I quote:

Out of the experience of an extraordinary human disaster that lasted too long, must be born a society of which all humanity will be proud.

That society, which was born in 1994, was underscored by a very progressive Constitution with a Bill of Rights. For a people whose every moment was a living experience of humiliation and a denial of their human dignity, the restoration of their human rights, including that of human dignity, meant the restoration of life.

Many can find meaning in the declaration by the Mexican revolutionary Emiliano Zapata who said, and I quote:

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

We cannot go back to the period or memory of Number four prison, where black men were made to strip naked and perform the "tauza" dance. Neither do we want to reopen the wounds of the humiliation of Sarah Baartman, who was exhibited in London and Paris, and whose genitals and brain were stored in a pickle jar and shown off in a museum until the administration, led by President Mandela, demanded the return of her remains for a decent burial. [Applause.]

We dare not repeat that painful, brutal, primitive treatment of a human being. This is why we are also currently working with the government of Austria regarding the remains of the Khoisan people who were taken to Austria for experiments in 1909. Already the remains of Mr and Mrs Klaas and Trooi Pienaar have been brought back to the country and we are working on the logistics for a decent burial. The Austrian scientist Rudolph Poch had taken the human remains of more than 80 South Africans to Austria for experiments.

I trust that the social cohesion and nation-building summit in July will give us all the opportunity to turn our backs on denial and confront this painful history, with a view to finding final closure and healing. Our people have suffered enough indignity.

The hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party, Mathole Motshekga, correctly pointed out that the dialogue would promote racial, cultural and religious tolerance and contribute to nation-building and social cohesion. Most importantly, it will allow the sharing of experiences.

We are a rainbow nation, but our experiences are not the same. Our knowledge of this country must not be solely defined by written texts, but should be informed by the experiences of the people who make up the wonderful tapestry of this wonderful nation.

I would like to assure the House that, as much as we fought for this freedom and liberated both the oppressor and the oppressed alike, we will defend all the rights enshrined in the Constitution, including the right to freedom of expression and the right to human dignity. [Applause.]

No right is superior to other rights. In the same vein, we must disabuse ourselves of the notion that certain rights are more important to certain sections of South African society than others. Freedom of expression is as important and understood and appreciated in Constantia as much as it is in Gugulethu.

That is why this government defends the right of our people to express themselves in any manner, including protest action, except if in exercising that right they begin to violate the rights of others, such as destroying property or stopping other people from exercising their own rights.

No right is absolute. It must be exercised with due regard for the rights of others. That is the balance we have to strike at all times. Most importantly, as leaders we have a responsibility to live, uphold and defend the Constitution regardless of narrow political goals. No right is so important that it can be used to undermine other rights with impunity.

Hon Deputy Minister Jeremy Cronin eloquently captured the importance of balancing all the rights in our Constitution. We should not promote only those rights that are important to those with power and influence, or those that are convenient at a given time.

We cannot be selective with our Constitution. It does not matter who the subject of the violation of any right is, all rights are important and must be respected. I am putting a lot of emphasis on rights, because I think that certain members in this House need some help in understanding this.

Hon members, what is remarkable about our country is that despite this human disaster that lasted too long, as described by Madiba, we still had that historic gathering in Kliptown in 1955, where, under the leadership of the ANC delegates to the congress of the people – the real congress of the people ... [Laughter.] ... - it was declared that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white.

It is remarkable, too, that while our struggle was a struggle against racism, it was never a racist struggle. That is why we had white democrats fighting side by side with their black compatriots to liberate this country and put an end to racism and subjugation.

Madiba declared from the dock, while facing a possible death sentence, that -

... the ANC has spent half a century fighting against racialism. When it triumphs it will not change that policy.

Indeed, it has not and will not change that policy. [Applause.]

I am saying this, because when we speak as I do it must not be misread. It must not be misread as us trying to provoke emotions wrongly. We are correcting those who are provoking emotions wrongly ... [Laughter.] [Applause.] ... and we remind them that we fought for nonracialism, just as we fought for this democratic Constitution, and we will defend it.

When we speak of the triple challenge of poverty, unemployment and inequality, we are essentially talking about the economic and social patterns of colonialism and apartheid. Today, when we talk about these things, some people seek to suggest that we brought about these things as this government by failing to deal with issues.

There were three long periods – centuries – in which people were dispossessed. This poverty that you are talking about, you talk about it as if it just fell from the sky and came from nowhere. People were forcibly removed from their land, made poor overnight, made to be homeless and landless. That is what we are trying to correct today.

We think that we can correct the damage in two decades when it was caused over three centuries. We present government's scorecard without discussing it. We discuss everything else under the sun, including an incorrect interpretation of the Constitution and the oath taker. [Interjections.]

Therefore, while we have done remarkably well, as our midterm review demonstrates, we still have some way to go before Qumbu can look like Rosebank. But we are determined to get there. Some of us have been determined from a very young age. We are still determined today and nothing is going to stop us.

We thank hon Bhoola for acknowledging that considerable work has been done and that people must not pretend that nothing has been done. [Applause.] As hon Sue van der Merwe pointed out, there is evidence that policy decisions are being turned into practical programmes with the emphasis on building on sound policies and tweaking those that proved less suitable. Indeed we are a learning government and we improve each day in the delivery of services.

Mr S B FARROW: How about the sick children in Limpopo?

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Our performance monitoring and evaluation mechanism allows us to know what is working and what needs to be fixed. In this regard, we are able to give a frank and honest account of where we are succeeding and where we must still work harder.

We know what we are doing and we know where we are going and how to get there. And as hon Mfundisi correctly stated, we have parted ways with doing business as usual. We are doing things differently and in a more hands-on manner.

Hon Mphahlele, you stated that our land restitution programme has been a sad story of failure or a set-up for failure as there is no meaningful support for government beneficiaries. In 2009, we set ourselves a target to redistribute 30% of the 82 million hectares of white-owned agricultural land to black people by 2014. This 30% translates to 24,5 million hectares.

Our midterm review has indicated that the process of acquiring and distributing a particular piece of land is often lengthy, and this escalates the cost of redistribution because the former owner stops investing in the land.

We agree with you, therefore, hon Mphahlele, that many of the farms are in a poor state of repair at the point of acquisition. In addition, there has often been a decline in productivity on the redistributed farms. In response, government adopted the recapitalisation programme in November 2010.

By December last year, 595 farms were in the process of being rehabilitated through this programme. Strategic partners and mentors, who are competent and experienced farmers themselves, are appointed through a particular system to assist beneficiaries with farming activities.

The strategic partners and mentors are required to develop the farming skills of beneficiaries, provide them with access to markets and, where possible, access to the entire value chain of that particular business. Most importantly, the strategic partners are required to share in the risks of the farming enterprise to ensure the success of the venture.

This further contributes to the objective of deracialising the rural economy. To date we are seeing drastic improvements, not only in terms of production on farms, but in the lives of the beneficiaries. We agree that more work still needs to be done and we will do this work.

Hon Shenge and hon Dikobo pointed to some serious shortcomings that we are dealing with currently, such as the shortage of medicines in some hospitals, especially ARVs, and children studying under trees.

As Minister Collins Chabane pointed out, we will continue conducting extensive monitoring nationwide. This will enable the Presidency itself to detect such anomalies timeously and correct them. No matter how critical those who are opposing us might be, we are dealing with the issues.

You might disagree with some of the issues, but at least we are dealing with issues about what needs to be done in this country to improve the quality of the lives of our people. So respect that. You may agree or disagree, but at least we are discussing the issues that confront our people. [Applause.]

Hon Manana raised the critical challenge of youth development and the imperative of investing in our youth. The Deputy President and Deputy Minister Obed Bapela touched on this subject in their presentation, underlining the importance we attach to finding a solution and working with all sectors.

In 2009 we committed to promoting decent employment through inclusive growth and to addressing the problem of youth unemployment. The response to youth unemployment has to be multipronged. It cannot be one intervention, given the magnitude of the problem.

We have a number of interventions to address youth development and employment. These interventions include improving support to small and medium enterprises, increasing opportunities in the Expanded Public Works Programme, the Community Work Programme, the National Rural Youth Service Corps and the National Youth Service programme, as well as others.

You will also recall that, through Nedlac, government recently signed a national skills accord with all the social partners. Business and state-owned enterprises made concrete commitments to significantly increase the number of apprenticeships and to take on learners and interns for practical workplace experience.

Government also undertook to develop targets for internships throughout the public sector. We also signed the Green Economy Accord with business, labour and the community sector.

One of the commitments in the accord was that young people should make up 80% of new employees in the manufacturing and installation of solar water heating systems in public and community works programmes that are directed at environmental challenges.

We have also asked all government departments to mainstream youth development and youth employment and to ensure that all programmes catering for the youth are treated as a priority sector.

Hon Speaker, we truly appreciate constructive contributions by Members of Parliament that help to improve our work. We have been addressing the matter of the youth for some time now. Some people have just discovered it now. [Laughter.]

They are running around as if they were the ones who discovered it in the first place – just like someone arriving in Cape Town and claiming to have discovered a country when people had already been living here. It's the same thing; there is no difference. [Laughter.] Discover a point in Africa, arrive in Durban, and discover Durban on Christmas Day. [Laughter.] There are people staying there. Arrive at Victoria Falls and claim to have discovered a wonderful thing and name it after the discoverer. There were no people there before. Now people have discovered the youth problem. Therefore South Africa must be in trouble, because they have just discovered the youth! [Applause.]

We have been dealing with the issue of the youth all the time. All the time! [Interjections.] People have been living here on the Cape Peninsula for centuries, but then someone arrives and claims to have discovered it. They discover the people as well and do what they like with them.

Mayibabo! Why are you only discovering the youth issue now, when we have been working on it all the time? [Interjections.] You seem to be very fond of discovering things. [Laughter.]

We were happy to receive a letter from hon Holomisa on the need to revitalise the Umtata area. We believe that Members of Parliament have a duty not only to criticise but also to guide government towards action in their constituencies as they know the needs of those communities better. We would like to thank the hon member, because, as a result of that, something is happening – as he acknowledged.

An HON MEMBER: Yes, "Le tlang" [That is coming], Soweto is coming.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: You are going to discover Soweto too? Is that so? [Laughter.]

The work that is being done to rebuild Umtata and surrounding areas is continuing, and we are happy with the progress being made. In fact, it was confirmed by a bishop when I was at a church in the Eastern Cape.

The oversight role of Parliament needs to be enhanced to allow more positive and constructive outcomes from engagements, rather than point-scoring in debates that do not change the lives of the people in a practical way.

We have also noted the comments and concerns of hon Holomisa on the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project, known as the e-tolling system. The Deputy President is leading government in seeking solutions regarding this matter. We assure hon Holomisa that, whatever we do, we will be mindful of the need not to compromise the huge infrastructure programme which is crucial for raising the level of South Africa's economic growth as well as the standard of living of citizens, especially the poor and unemployed.

Hon members, we need to appreciate the truly historic significance of South Africa and Africa hosting the major part of the Square Kilometre Array project. The awarding of this project has catapulted Africa into being an integral part of the world's scientific community.

This community is seized with the challenge of exploring and understanding the origins of our universe and of life itself. This is our continent's rightful place. It is the cradle of humankind and was at the forefront of research and science centuries ago through our ancient universities, as exemplified by the hallowed city of Timbuktu in Mali.

Now, at last, our youth can once again share in the excitement of discovery and the development of understanding. [Laughter.] We'll discover something up there where no human being has been before, but we can't discover places where there are other humans already. [Laughter.]

There are many opportunities for our youth in this very important victory. As we become part of the advance guard of the scientific community, our challenge will be to give our youth the quality education that will make them the scientific explorers of tomorrow. Let the hosting of the Square Kilometre Array inspire our youth and give us the strength to meet this challenge.

Let me remind the hon members of this august House that we have been given a huge responsibility as Members of Parliament and of government. We have the privilege of taking decisions that influence the lives of millions of people. This requires us to use this privilege responsibly, knowing when to score points and when to put the interests of the country first.

Mama Phumeza Mhlanga, my special guest from Alice, came to me this morning, traumatised. She left this House early yesterday. She was shocked and disappointed by the conduct of some hon members in the House. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order!

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: We need to remember that visitors to this House need to be left with a good impression – even more so those sitting at home, who look up to the public representatives here. That is why members need to behave in a mature, constructive and responsible manner.

This is an elderly lady of 80 who has come to Parliament for the first time. I don't think it is appropriate for such a person to leave with that impression. If this old lady had this impression, I wonder about those sitting far away who are not able to pass on remarks about their impressions. I think we need to do something about our behaviour. [Interjections.]

I thought I should share with you what she said. She said that people could disagree, but not in such a manner. I am sure she did not understand what was happening. [Interjections.] I know that when some people make a point, they do so with force and they may sound a certain way, signifying nothing. I can imagine this old lady is looking at this saying, "Kanti kuyaliwa yini lapha?" [Are we fighting here?]

It is absolutely enjoyable. I said to her, "No, mama, this is democracy and in a democracy people do whatever they like." At times they go overboard, of course. The word "democracy" sounds very nice and it looks as if people think that in a democracy you are well-behaved when making your points and you make your points properly and reasonably. [Laughter.]

As we forge ahead to build a new society out of what Madiba called "a human disaster that lasted too long", we remain guided by the wisdom of our founding fathers and our leaders who have been with us for a long time – those who understood where we were going.

Chief Albert Luthuli aptly summed up what the ANC stands for when he declared:

Our vision has always been that of a nonracial, democratic South Africa which upholds the rights of all who live in our country to remain there as full citizens, with equal rights and responsibilities with all others. For the consummation of this ideal we have laboured unflinchingly.

We shall continue to labour unflinchingly. I thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

EXTENSION OF DEADLINE FOR AD HOC COMMITTEE TO REPORT ON GENERAL INTELLIGENCE LAWS AMENDMENT BILL

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House extends the deadline by which the Ad Hoc Committee on the General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill has to report, to 17 August 2012.

Agreed to.

SUSPENSION OF RULES FOR SECOND READING DEBATE ON CRIMINAL LAW (SEXUAL OFFENCES AND RELATED MATTERS) AMENDMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, hon President and Deputy President, I move without notice:

That the House suspends the following Rules for the purposes of conducting the Second Reading debate today on the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act Amendment Bill [B 19 – 2012] (National Assembly – sec 75):

(1) Rule 253(1), which provides inter alia that the debate on the Second Reading of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have elapsed since the committee's report was tabled;

(2) with the concurrence of the National Council of Provinces, Joint Rule 154, which provides for the submission of views on the classification of a Bill to the Joint Tagging Mechanism in writing within a specified period but not less than three working days and further that a Bill may not be classified before the expiry of the specified period; and

(3) Joint Rule 220(2), which requires that a translation of a Bill's official text must be received by Parliament at least three days before the formal consideration of the Bill by the House.

Agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - CRIMINAL LAW (SEXUAL OFFENCES AND RELATED MATTERS) AMENDMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL

There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker, I move:

That the Report be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

CRIMINAL LAW (SEXUAL OFFENCES AND RELATED MATTERS) AMENDMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL

(Second Reading debate)

There was no debate.

Bill read a second time.

The House adjourned at 15:00.

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ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Classification of Bill by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)

(1) The JTM in terms of Joint Rule 160(6) classified the following Bill as a section 75 Bill:

(a) Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act Amendment Bill [B 19 – 2012] (National Assembly – sec 75).

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