Hansard: NA: Questions for Oral Reply; Cluster 4: Economics
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 05 Jun 2013
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 26
WEDNESDAY, 5 JUNE 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____________
The House met at 15:05.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The MINISTER OF LABOUR – Question 138
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 26
START OF DAY
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
ECONOMICS
Cluster 4
Question 138:
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon Speaker, before the Department of Labour can establish a sectoral determination for any sector, the Employment Conditions Commission, ECC, conducts public hearings, as the standard practice, to listen to employers and workers in regard to their conditions and the impact that the minimum wage will have on the sector.
The agricultural sector was no exception to this approach. The ECC invited both employers and workers to make representations. During the public hearings the employers raised what they considered to be the impact that the minimum wage would have on them. Similarly, the workers raised issues relating to their current exposure to low wages and the rampant exploitation that they are subjected to in the sector.
As the Minister of Labour I have the responsibility to listen to both parties and strike a balance between the diverse interests of those parties, also taking into account the socioeconomic interests of the country, including possible job losses. The investigation did not show any negative impact on jobs, and I took comfort from the fact that those employers who genuinely cannot afford the new rates will have recourse in the form of exemptions.
The actual average wage prior the introduction of the new determination varied from one employer to the other and from one province to the other. The information collected through the public hearings showed that the levels of wages they were paid in the sector were without doubt far from being ethically acceptable.
The hon member should know that the minimum wage is not determined in a vacuum. There are considerations which are taken into account prior to the introduction of a minimum wage, like the ability of the employer to continue to do business and the vulnerability of workers, which may include, amongst other things, their living standards.
For employers that cannot comply with certain provisions of our labour laws, the Basic Conditions of Employment Act of 1997 provides for the variation of certain conditions of employment, including wages where employers cannot afford the payment of such wages. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P F SMITH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 26
The MINISTER OF LABOUR
Mr P F SMITH: Thank you, Speaker. Thanks, hon Minister, for your reply. Minister, I know I actually tried to get a question as to the merits or demerits of the determination. I realise that that is your business. I am just interested in the consequences. If one looks at the sectoral trend of agriculture and labour in this country over the last decade, it's truly atrocious. We have lost approximately 330 000 jobs in the last decade. Agriculture's contribution in regard to total employment was about 8% and it is now under 5%. Its contribution to the gross domestic product has dropped to 2%. We therefore have a real problem in agriculture and job creation.
I know the Minister is not the Minister of Agriculture, but she is still a Minister in government and this government is committed to creating jobs. Therefore, I suppose my follow-up question would be: What can be done, apart from the exemptions process alluded to. Is there anything else that can be done by your department, hon Minister, to help improve labour absorption within the agricultural sector?
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Speaker, there are different programmes in the department. For example, when it comes to seasonal workers, we have discussed the matter with the farmers, and said that they can approach the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration for the training lay-off schemes they can use. There are also different programmes in the Department of Agriculture that have support funding for farmers.
At the same time we must not assume, when we have decided on the sectoral determination, that the farmers can't afford it. I say this precisely because the majority of the farmers, particularly in Limpopo, have raised the issue that instead of paying the current sectoral determination of R105 per day, they would rather pay that to foreign nationals. Therefore, you cannot say that they can't afford it.
It is the attitude of some of the farmers when they are responding to that that I want to mention, and this includes those that have applied for exemptions. They didn't give us the documents that were required. As we speak, we have refused 480 farmers because they didn't submit the documents that they were supposed to submit. That shows that they can afford to pay the workers according to the sectoral determination. Thank you.
Mr S C MOTAU
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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 26
The MINISTER OF LABOUR
Mr S C MOTAU: Thank you, hon Speaker. Minister, thank you very much for the response. I have a couple of things to mention. The controversy around the setting of the minimum wage continues to simmer, with both sides, the farm workers and the farmers, quite unhappy. The farm workers are saying that R105 is not enough and the employers are saying that it is too much and it will lead to bankruptcy.
A question regarding the emerging farmers is this. How many of the people who applied for exemption are emerging farmers, and how many of these have been approved? Given that this dispensation has been in place for a couple of months, and people who have applied for exemption are paying their employees a previously agreed amount, if they are refused exemption, will the workers be back-paid and, if so, what impact will that have on the farmers? Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Speaker, in regard to the number of farmers that were granted exemption, there were only 86, and there were 480 who were refused exemption. About 585 applications were referred back to the farmers because they didn't submit supporting documents.
When those who have applied are refused exemptions, they have to pay the farm workers the difference as from the date of the implementation of the sectoral determination.
Also, regarding those that have been given the exemptions, we did that because they had agreements with the workers, where the workers had signed and agreed on how much would be paid to them for a certain period of time and when that package would be reviewed. This was also based on a projection by the farmer himself of the period of time after which that farmer would be able to pay the workers according to the sectoral determination. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D A KGANARE
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 26
The MINISTER OF LABOUR
Mr D A KGANARE: Thanks, hon Speaker. Hon Minister, we should not get tired of protecting vulnerable workers, those who are farm workers, because the wage determination deals with the minimum wage, which means the least you can pay these particular workers.
Regarding the issue of unemployment in the agricultural industry, I would like to know whether your department has investigated how many workers have lost their jobs as a result of mechanisation in the agricultural industry?
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Speaker, of course I agree with the member that I will not get tired of protecting the vulnerable workers, because that is the policy of the ANC. [Applause.]
In regard to the second question, we have sent the report to the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, for both the public hearings and also the research that was done in order for Nedlac to discuss that particular report and come up with a proposal. The reason we have sent the report to Nedlac is because the employers, the workers and the government are represented there. I will await that report and after that we will share the report and the recommendations with the hon member. Thank you.
Mr E NYEKEMBA
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 26
The MINISTER OF LABOUR
Mr E NYEKEMBA: Thank you, hon Speaker. Minister, we all acknowledge the fundamental fact that sectoral determinations are there to protect vulnerable workers.
My follow-up question is in relation to those farmers who have applied for exemption, which resulted in their coming to a point where their applications were not successful and the loss of jobs, which we view as a response to the applications that were not successful. What does the department intend to do in order to avoid a situation where an application has been refused, which resulted in workers' being dismissed? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: I thank the hon member for his question. Hon Speaker, at present we have not yet given the number of jobs that have been lost.
However, as I have outlined, we as a department are ready, as we have the programme of the training lay-off schemes. I believe that the farmers, together with us as a department, will need to share that information and we will also need to take the farmers on board regarding how they can implement that programme. I believe that immediately we have the information regarding that – because they have to prove that they really can't afford it - we will share that idea with the hon members as well. For now, I can say ...
IsiZulu:
... abakakabikhona abantu asebelahlekelwe imisebenzi.
English:
Thank you very much, hon Speaker.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS – Question 197
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 28
The MINISTER OF LABOUR – Question 138
Question 197:
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Speaker, the response is that board members of all the entities or companies that report to the Department of Communications and senior officials in the department are subjected to background checks prior to their appointment. Senior officials are also vetted for security purposes prior to confirmation and appointment. Thank you very much, hon Speaker.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Speaker, we believe that the Minister carries an onerous responsibility and we hear what she has said, that background checks are conducted.
Can we therefore have a better explanation of how it came about that Ms Pumla Radebe was appointed as the chairperson of the Universal Service and Access Agency of SA, Usaasa, knowing that she left Pikitup and the Johannesburg City Council after a forensic audit revealed tender irregularities in excess of R300 million.
Secondly, how did the hon Minister come to appoint Mr Reuben Mohlaloga as Independent Communications Authority of SA, Icasa, councillor while he is currently under investigation by the Land Bank for financial misconduct and despite the opposition's concerns about his unsuitability for the position.
We believe that these institutions really demand that the people who lead have exemplary, squeaky-clean, governance backgrounds. Just with my mentioning these two instances, it seems that the hon Minister and the entities which report to her have really not done the background checks. [Time expired.] Thank you.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Speaker, with regard to Reuben Mohlaloga, he was recommended by the Portfolio Committee on Communications to the Minister to be appointed as the Icasa councillor. The hon member is part of that portfolio committee and we believe that she was part of the processes and she should have known.
However, we did check on him. We believe that in terms of the Constitution of South Africa anyone is deemed innocent until proven otherwise. We had heard about this and we believed that Mr Mohlaloga had not been found guilty of any wrongdoing. That is why we appointed him as a member of the Icasa council.
With regard to Pumla Radebe, again the department did a background check and we found that there was nothing against her as a person in regard to what the hon member referred to.
Ms M R SHINN
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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 28
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Ms M R SHINN: Speaker, South Africa's Public Service needs fewer politically connected cronies in executive positions, and not more. Hon Minister, in your 18 months in office you and those close to you have gained the reputation of influencing the choice of incumbents in board and executive positions in a number of entities reporting to your department. The Usaasa appointments are just the latest to surface.
The person you inserted into the shortlist for the position of chief financial officer of the SABC, and who you chose to fill the post, is now suspended and is being investigated for procurement irregularities. She was in the job for less than a year! One of the tasks she completed in her short tenure was the approval of R3 million in cash and publicity for your ICT indaba, an action for which she did not have the necessary executive management committee approval.
SAPS is investigating whether appointments to the SA Post Office, Sentech and other entities were the result of corrupt processes influenced by your cronies who are out of reach of accountability to Parliament.
Now, Minister, you want to have more say over the board appointments to the beleaguered SABC. This at a time when years of political meddling by you and your predecessors are taking their toll on the public broadcaster. Why, Minister, will you not legislate that board and council appointments ... [Time expired.] ... of the entities actually are appointed by Parliament in a transparent and open process.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Speaker, I believe that if the hon member had looked at the Act governing broadcasting and how appointments in entities and, in particular the SA Broadcasting Corporation, are made, she wouldn't have been asking me this question.
However, hon Speaker, I think I should help her and say that the appointments of all the executives at all the entities or companies that report to the Department of Communications are made by the board members, and not by the Minister. This includes the appointment of the board members of all the entities. The recruitment advertisements are posted in newspapers or in media houses and the people of South Africa have an opportunity to nominate people that they think can sit on those boards. We have a selection committee that selects the members who qualify. All members that are sitting on the SA Post Office board sit there on merit.
On the SABC issue, probably the hon member is no longer a member of the Portfolio Committee on Communications because, if she were, she would remember that before all the board members at the SABC are appointed, they are actually interviewed by the portfolio committee here in Parliament, on which the Minister does not even sit. They later make a recommendation to the President, and the President delegates the matter to the Minister in order for her to appoint those board members. The board members, as I have said, are actually interviewed by the portfolio committee, to which the member belongs. Thank you very much, hon Speaker. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order!
Mr D A KGANARE
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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 28
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Speaker, my question to the hon Minister is based on the fact that even if people say that there are boards and all those things, it is easy for political interference to take place.
There is a specific allegation that has been made about the Minister. The allegation is that her boyfriend is the one who decides who must be appointed to the SABC. Can the hon Minister stand here and say that that is not true?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker, on a point of order: This matter is before a committee of Parliament. Now the hon member is anticipating the findings of that committee. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order! Order! The hon Chief Whip is correct. Yes, you know that too. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Order!
Ms A F MUTHAMBI
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 28
The SPEAKER
Ms A F MUTHAMBI: Thank you, hon Speaker. Minister, in your 2013 budget speech you said, and I quote:
Having a stable and capable leadership team that has integrity is crucial in our endeavour to improve the service delivery goals of our department and our portfolio of state-owned entities. A stable leadership is crucial to achieving good corporate governance and accountability.
Can the Minister elaborate on strengthening the leadership capability in the department and its entities, and the appointment of critical skills? Thank you, hon Speaker.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Speaker, it is true that in the department we are working very hard to make sure that we deal with the issue of governance principles, and making sure that the board members in all entities that report to the department adhere to the governance principles.
Right at the moment we are reviewing our policies to make sure that they are aligned with the situation as ICT grows on a daily basis. We have recognised the challenges that we have had before, for example at the SABC, and we as a department are now proposing amendments to the Act governing broadcasting because of the challenges that we have faced before.
Regarding the challenges that we have faced at Icasa, we are actually proposing amendments, which have already gone through the Cabinet process, and later they will come to Parliament. We are doing our best to make sure that our entities operate in an environment that is able to help the country to deliver its services to the people of South Africa. Thank you very much, hon Speaker.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES – Question 140
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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 29
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS – Question 197
Question 140:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Hon Speaker, administered prices are set by a regulated framework instead of being determined by regular market forces of supply and demand.
The general principles and objectives of pricing policy require the relevant regulators, when setting prices and tariffs, firstly, to enable an efficient operation to recover the full cost of its licensed activities, including a reasonable margin of return; then, to provide for or prescribe incentives for continued improvement of the technical and economic efficiency with which services are to be provided; to give end users proper information regarding the cost that their consumption imposes on the business; and to avoid undue discrimination between customer categories. This may permit the cross subsidy of tariffs to certain categories of customers, as well as managing inflationary pressures in the economy.
The various transport modes, namely airports, rail, roads and pipelines, vary considerably with respect to the extent of the economic regulation and the regulatory framework that are in place.
With respect to rail, there is no formal economic regulator. In this regard the Department of Public Enterprises acts as a quasi regulator through the Transnet shareholder compact.
With respect to ports, the Ports Regulator provides economic regulation for the port system in terms of the National Ports Act, Act 12 of 2005.
The National Energy Regulator of South Africa, Nersa, provides economic regulation for the piped gas and petroleum pipeline industries in terms of the Gas Act, Act 48 of 2001 and the Petroleum Pipelines Act, Act 60 of 2003.
Electricity prices are regulated in terms of the Electricity Regulation Act, Act 4 of 2006 which is administered by Nersa. In regulating the electricity prices, Nersa has to consider the Electricity Pricing Policy of 2008, which was approved by the Cabinet. Eskom charges tariffs as approved by Nersa in line with the Electricity Regulation Act and the Electricity Pricing Policy. The tariffs applied must avoid undue discrimination, unless approved by Nersa. Therefore, Eskom does not have favourable tariffs for exported goods, except for the special agreement with BHP Billiton which is currently being reviewed by Nersa.
In the past, due to historical legacy issues, prices for export commodities were lower than those of manufactured goods. Prices were determined on the basis of the value of the goods. Transnet's current pricing strategy is being reviewed to address exactly those anomalies and they include pricing on the basis of the cost of providing the total service for a particular commodity, rather than pricing on the basis of its value. This was based on the import substitution policy that the government had adopted. Hence the economy could not accrue beneficiation from its mineral resources.
In 2012-13, Transnet established a port rebate of R1 billion for exporters ... [Time expired.]
Prof B TUROK
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 29
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
Prof B TUROK: Thank you, Mr Minister. I look forward to reading that reply. It was very comprehensive and needs a bit of digestion.
Let me say that there are two elements to my question. The first one is that successive governors of the Reserve Bank have talked about the impact of rising administrative prices on inflation. That is an important issue, but that is not the concern of my question. My question is rather addressed to the question of industrial policy.
I am very interested to hear that there are so many different bodies that are regulating administrative prices. It seems to me that that might be a problem. There are too many bodies, each one making its own levels of administrative prices, and there is not sufficient coherence across the state sector.
Therefore, I was wondering whether you could tell me whether you yourself, your Ministry and your department are able to do anything at all to introduce a greater degree of coherence in the whole policy of regulation, so that administrative prices are seen, not merely as something internal to a particular body, but as something that affects national policy and the whole question of national development. We really do need to promote economic development across the whole sector. It seems to me that if we have silos, each one deciding its own level of administrative prices, this does not drive towards a coherent economic development policy. [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Hon Speaker, indeed the question of policy coherence in relation to the administered prices, as well as the regulatory bodies, is a critical factor. I know that the various policy departments are trying to address this.
In regard to the Department of Public Enterprises, issues of regulation don't fall within our portfolio, but we are trying in our own environment to address these challenges.
For example, Transnet submitted to the Ports Regulator a proposal that would see port tariffs being set over the seven-year market demand strategy period, which would also result in a reduction in the export of containerised goods, whilst increasing tariffs on the exportation of bulk. The Ports Regulator opted instead for a decision which would indeed see the containerised goods exportation tariffs being reduced and the maintaining of the exportation of bulk at the level where it is. This would assist to promote industrialisation in order to give incentives, in addition to the ports rebate that was announced last year, to the manufacturing sector so that they see a reduction in the tariffs for the exportation of manufactured goods.
In this regard, we are trying also to respond to the comparisons between the export tariffs for bulk and containerised goods in South Africa in relation to the global trends. Thank you.
Mrs N W A MICHAEL
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 29
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
Mrs N W A MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Minister, port prices differ within the jurisdiction, and even in the same port and port system. However, it cannot be denied that in various elements South African port charges are the highest in the world. This has resulted in South Africa's simply being bypassed as a gateway to Africa in favour of the cheaper port costs in Angola, Mozambique and Kenya.
Can the Minister please indicate what plans are in place to make South Africa the gateway to Africa again? And what plans are in place to ensure that South Africa attracts more ships to our dry docks for repair, as this would result in massive job creation? Can the Minister also tell me whether or not he agrees with the need for a single transport development regulator to consider roads, ports and air travel, so that all these costs are regulated by a single regulator?
Lastly, could the Minister also please confirm that no bonuses will be paid to any Eskom or Transnet top management in the light of their request to the South African public to pay unaffordable tariff increases? [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Hon Speaker, as I indicated in my earlier response, the port charges in South Africa for bulk are among the lowest in the world. For example, the coal export charges are 17% below the global trends. Where our port charges are considerably higher is for containerised goods. That is the issue that I mentioned earlier in my response and that we are addressing in response to the request by Transnet, as well as the decision by the Ports Regulator.
Secondly, the challenge in South Africa is that, compared to many other ports in the world which are subsidised by the fiscus, South African ports do not receive a fiscal subsidy. In that regard, Transnet is required to raise its revenue from the port charges from the users. It's an issue that we certainly need to address and I would welcome opinions from various players, because we have a responsibility not only to maintain the quality of the services at our ports, but also to improve them. Certainly the services at our ports, as well as the infrastructure, need to be improved and somebody has to pay for that.
In so far as the single transport economic regulator is concerned, it is a matter that is beyond our control, whether we like it or not. The Department of Transport is developing that. It is a very complex matter to deal with. We are looking forward to the proposals that will emerge from the Department of Transport in so far as that is concerned. It is not going to be easy at all.
In regard to the bonuses of the executives, I will not deal with that because it bears no relevance to the question which I was asked by hon Turok. Thank you.
Mr N J J KOORNHOF
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 29
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
Mr N J J KOORNHOF: Mr Speaker, the hon Ben Turok in subsection (3) of his question asked a very pertinent question – whether state enterprises should generate a profit over and above their need to build legitimate reserves or to break even. The point is that the Minister was very vague in replying to that question.
Why is it important to reply to that? Unfortunately, if you break even or if you are there to make profit you must keep your CEOs' salaries and bonuses in place, and you cannot duck and dive this afternoon with regard to that. You have appointed a committee and you will investigate that. When can we see that report with regard to CEO salaries and bonuses coming from your Ministry?
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Hon Speaker, the issue of the remuneration packages and bonuses does not fall within the realm of the question that I was asked, but let me respond to the question of the profits and dividends. First and foremost, the government has not been claiming the dividends from state-owned companies, which are from the revenue generated from their operations.
Furthermore, the issue, hon Koornhof, is that the question hon Turok asked was long and comprehensive. It required an extensive response and, as you will have noticed, my time lapsed before I could respond to everything that was asked.
Therefore, let me say, notwithstanding that, that in conducting their businesses, Eskom, Transnet, Transnet National Ports Authority and Transnet Pipelines do generate surpluses, for which there are provisions by the relevant regulators, in line with the applicable policies and Acts. These provisions require the regulators to allow for full cost recovery for activities, plus a predetermined margin of return.
In practice the state-owned companies are focused on generating only sufficient retained earnings to pay for their ambitious bill programmes without overburdening the industry and consumers. For example, Eskom chose to apply for a 16% tariff increase for the year 2012-13, despite having a regulatory right to a 25% increase, so as to mediate the economic pressures created by the continued global financial crisis. No dividends are declared by any of the state-owned companies in the Department of Public Enterprises portfolio, as all retained earnings are reinvested in the bill programme.
As I indicated earlier, to date fiscus has not supported state-owned companies except through government guarantees which allow the state-owned companies to raise capital in the financial markets, which they need to pay back anyway. So, there is no equity injection ... [Time expired.]
Mr K P SITHOLE
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 29
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
Mr K P SITHOLE: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon Minister, even if there are such mechanisms and policies in place, the point is that the administrative prices are just too high. They are higher than inflation every year and they are a drag on economic growth. What is your department doing to ensure that administrative price increases remain on par with inflation? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Hon Speaker, it would seem to me, hon Speaker, that the hon member prepared this question prior to my response, and has not been listening to what I have been saying!
Notwithstanding that, let me say that my department is doing something about this. We have supported Transnet's application. We are engaging with various stakeholders, particularly the policy departments, in regard to addressing the challenges that have been raised.
The state-owned companies face a particular challenge, that they must expand capacity in a context where they do not receive any equity injection from anywhere else. This means that they must generate the revenue themselves to expand infrastructure capacity. Somebody has to pay for this.
This is a conundrum that we are trying to address and to balance. So far we have established a task team with the Department of Trade and Industry and the Transnet National Ports Authority, for example, to develop a detailed investment promotion strategy for infant port industrial sectors such as oil and gas, and boat building. It is expected that this task team will release its initial strategy for stakeholder consultation towards the end of the second quarter.
We have been very active as the shareholder in assisting the state-owned companies to traverse this very complex road, where they need to expand capacity, but at the same time to generate revenue for reinvestment in infrastructure through charging the users. It is not an easy thing to do, but we are doing our best within the limits of our capabilities to do something to reduce the administered prices.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS – Question 174
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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 30
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES – Question 140
Question 174:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Speaker, for the same reasons that were given on similar matters before, which were security matters, we cannot divulge information related to security unless it is provided in an appropriate forum, which we have suggested before and which will deal with security matters. [Interjections.] We are not against being held accountable, but it must be in the right forum, taking into account sensitivities related to security considerations. [Applause.]
Ms A M DREYER: Hon Speaker, regardless of the Minister's response, we know that the public paid R206 million for security upgrades at President Zuma's private home. We also know that when former President Mbeki left office, he had received a R3,5 million upgrade to his private home. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order!
Ms A M DREYER: This massive inflation of costs points to fraud and corruption and the public has the right to know.
In a letter to Parliament, the senior legal advisor recommends that those parts of the Nkandla report by the Department of Public Works task team dealing with the President's security, such as the architectural plans of his house, could be expunged from the report and that the rest of the report should be referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Works, which sits in the open. Yesterday in Parliament, Deputy Minister Cronin supported this recommendation when he said that it was not problematic to disclose aspects of the report relating to Public Works' role in the controversial upgrade.
Minister, when will you implement the legal advice, support your deputy, and send those parts of the report that deal with Public Works' role to the portfolio committee which sits in the open? [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: I stand by what we proposed and there is a process which has been proposed to this Parliament on how to deal with that report. We can only take the issues from that particular point. [Applause.]
Mr J J VAN DER LINDE
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 30
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mr J J VAN DER LINDE: Hon Speaker, the Minister paid R206 million for the security upgrades. I want to know, seeing that that amount was spent, how many RDP homes he thinks the Department of Public Works could have built for the amount of public money spent on the upgrading of the palace at Nkandla. Is it perhaps 2 000 or 2 200 RDP homes? How many could have been built?
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: That shows, Mr Speaker, the confusion of the member. He does not even know what he is trying to ask. The Department of Public Works does not deal with the building of RDP houses. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs J D KILIAN
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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 30
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Speaker, the hon Minister in a previous reply, to the hon Lekota, indicated that money expended on the homes of former Presidents since 1994 was guided by a consistent approach. He then indicated that there would be an evaluation by the Security Cluster that would be based on the findings of the threat analysis done.
Now we would like to know this. If such an imminent threat exists for the President of the country, what is the department planning to do to upgrade the security of the Deputy President's home, who on occasion has to act as the head of state when President Zuma is out of the country? If such an imminent threat exists for the family and the home of the President, then surely that should affect those acting in that capacity as well. Does his department plan any similar roll-out of security upgrades to the hon Deputy President's home? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Speaker, if such a task for us to implement comes from those who are responsible for that assessment, we will implement that. [Applause.]
Ms N D NGCENGWANE
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 30
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Ms N D NGCENGWANE: Thank you, hon Speaker. Minister, in terms of the section in the Ministerial Handbook on responsibility for general maintenance, renovations and upgrading of private residences of former Presidents of the Republic, could the Minister give the assurance that, as far as he is aware, everything that has been approved and carried out at such residences is in line with the Joint Cabinet Memorandum No 10 of August 2003, as it relates to the security risk assessment arrangements for the residences of former Presidents, which does not exempt security installation projects from the requirements of the Public Finance Management Act, Act 1 of 1999. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Speaker, we use various policies and various decisions, and not just the handbook. There are a number of decisions that we are using here. However, you will notice that in the preliminary report in relation to Nkandla that we released, we talked about further investigations by the Auditor-General, a process that we are seized with, and the Special Investigating Unit as well. This is because the intention was to say that we must comply with the Public Finance Management Act. So all of us must be accountable. We are using all those policy instruments, but we must also ensure that everybody complies with them.
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM – Question 149
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The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS – Question 174
Question 149:
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Speaker, the impact areas that have been measured to date include the following: job creation and poverty reduction; improved potential for tourism in the area; improvement of rural livelihoods; improved access to economic activities; improved access to public transport; skills development through the Expanded Public Works Programme on the job training; increased agricultural production; improvement of access to social services such as schools, clinics and hospitals; and to contribute to the heritage of the area.
These are the areas that were identified when we conducted the preliminary impact assessment in the areas that are joined by the bridge: Ludondolo in Dutywa and Mvezo in the King Sabata Dalindyebo Local Municipality in the O R Tambo District Municipality.
People think that the construction of the bridge, very importantly, cuts the time that it would take them to travel from Mvezo to Dutywa by 30 minutes. Also, at the moment they pay R57 when they go to Dutywa. This will cut the cost by R30. We think that it's going to have a very big impact. Yesterday I listened carefully to the chief when he was outlining the benefits to the communities there. Thank you very much.
Nkosi Z M D MANDELA
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The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM
Nkosi Z M D MANDELA: Enkosi Xhamela. [Thank you, Xhamela.] Hon Speaker, since the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform acts as a catalyst for other departments, what other projects or services has it overseen in the area of Mvezo and Ludondolo? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Speaker, the department of agriculture and rural development in the province has already allocated a tractor there. Also, the fields along the Mbashe River have been ploughed and fenced off.
We think that the villages along that river will benefit a lot. This is because, in our discussions with the chief and the community, we think that from our side we should provide them with infrastructure for irrigation. That will bring about a huge change in regard to the capacity of those fields to produce food.
Lastly, we are in discussion with, for example, the MEC for health in the Eastern Cape. We are looking at building a state of the art clinic between the two villages. Remember that Mvezo is a heritage site and a lot of traffic will probably be going through Ludondolo to Mvezo. Anything is possible, so we think we need to look at that together with the MEC. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M M SWATHE
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The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM
Mr M M SWATHE: Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for his reply. According to Statistics SA, Mbashe Local Municipality has a population of 254 909; there is a high unemployment rate of 42,4%; more than 80% of households are without sanitation and clean running water; and more than 50% of households have no electricity connection. I want to know why the Minister and his department only constructed a bridge and did not roll out the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme there in order to improve the lives of the entire rural community of Mvezo. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Speaker, the hon member is correct. However, in one of the villages, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries has constructed an agri park. If you go there, you will see the park. The only outstanding thing now is a machine to process the vegetables. This year we will complete this project. We built it a little while ago, but we are going to complete it now. We are now focusing on making sure that all communities are part of the massive agricultural production that is taking place there.
So, when we consider jobs in the area, we are considering them in an orthodox way, but when you consider jobs in terms of the production of the people who are self-employed in those projects, it is a different ball game. Statistics South Africa and the Presidency, between the years 2007-08 and 2008-09, posed this question because, according to them, there had been exponential growth. Do you know why? It was like that because of the production of the people there in the villages.
So those statistics are true, but we think that the province also has a responsibility there, as much as we ourselves have. We will do the best we can to deal with the problems. The member is right. Thank you.
Mr R N CEBEKHULU
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The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM
Mr R N CEBEKHULU: Chairperson, I must thank the hon Minister for the response that he gave following the question from Nkosi Mandela. With regard to any study that has been conducted on other bridges elsewhere, my main focus is to ask the Minister if a study has been conducted on building bridges where you find people swimming across rivers and, as a result, some of them being washed away by heavy floods. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Chair, I know that the hon member will probably be thinking about a particular example.
We are building low water bridges in a couple of places, and two months ago I visited Msinga because I was looking at the progress we are making with the Tugela Ferry irrigation scheme. I was looking for exactly that type of bridge being built by the province. I found out that the province is building what I could describe as a temporary bridge. They have started building something there.
The reason I went to see that bridge is because we intend building a big strong bridge that will actually do the job permanently there. That's one big bridge that we think we will build. There could be others, but we are looking at that one in the meantime, because it is a problem there, as much as it was a problem in Mbashe. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs M A A NJOBE
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The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM
Mrs M A A NJOBE: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, we appreciate the introduction and implementation of a major project such as that of the size of the Mbashe River bridge near Mvezo, for its potential to address the problem of unemployment and the possible transfer of skills to the community. However, we would like to know what the government's national roll-out plan is for major projects such as the one in the Eastern Cape? Where are other similar projects envisaged? When will they be rolled out? Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Chair, in the policy speech on Friday we outlined a couple of other areas where we will do such work, particularly irrigation schemes.
If I may talk about the Eastern Cape, I would like to say that I am sure that the hon member will be aware that there is a big irrigation scheme in Keiskammahoek. Also, there are two dairy parlours that we built there. One was built last year, which we opened in December. Working with Amadlelo Agri, we provided money to build that infrastructure. I am talking about that big object that we see there!
As part of the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission, we are looking at being part of the Wild Coast toll road, cutting through Pondoland. This is part of our work. That is why we went there last month, to get an agreement. We will be part of that.
Let me refer to elsewhere across the country. In Limpopo we are going to do one other thing. Let me put it this way: If you were to go to Ha-Masia now, you would see a big structure that we are building there. It is a cultural centre. However, it is going to be more than that. I am in discussion with my colleagues from the Department of Arts and Culture and the Department of Sport and Recreation in this regard. We will go there again during this recess to make sure that it does happen.
The same thing applies to Mkhondo in Mpumalanga. In Mpumalanga, there is a place called Donkerhoek, which is a very deep rural area. We are already building roads there using young people. Those roads are paved and not tarred. So it is a massive project that we have there. Relatively speaking, it has a low water bridge and so on.
We are doing a couple of these things across the country. In the Free State there is Jacobsdal. We did mention Jacobsdal in the speech. We are also going to Abaqulusi and Emadlangeni. We have already sent youngsters ... [Time expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES – Question 150
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The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM – Question 149
Question 150:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Madam Chair, we welcome the question asked by hon Matlanyane. In response, section 2.1 of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, Act 28 of 2002, provides for the holder of mining and production rights to contribute to the socioeconomic development of areas in which they are operating. The contributions are made by the mining companies in terms of the provisions of the Mining Charter, in accordance with the requirements of the social and labour plans, SLPs.
One of the key elements of the SLPs is a local economic development programme which contributes to mine community development. The LED programme must include, among others: the social and economic background of the areas in which the mine operates; the key economic areas; and the impact that the mine will have in the local and labour-sending communities. In addition, there are also the infrastructure and poverty eradication projects that the mine will support, in line with the integrated development plans, IDPs, of the areas in which the mine operates, as well as the major labour-sending areas.
In addition to all of this, the department has also published guidelines that will assist companies in drafting credible SLPs that will address section 2.1 in regard to the issues mentioned above.
Lastly, in regard to compliance, in order to ensure that the holder of the mining rights is contributing to the socioeconomic development of the areas, the following need to be adhered to: The Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act provides for routine inspections to be conducted by officials; the charter needs to be reviewed every time; and, lastly, the mining companies must also report annually in regard to the progress they are making in connection with the provisions of the law. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, I want to thank the Deputy Minister for his response. Many of the mineworkers receive their cash incentives as a subsidy ...
Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: Hon Matlanyane was not accorded the opportunity to ask a follow up question. Hon colleague, could she please be accorded the opportunity?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Can the hon Matlanyane please take the floor? [Applause.]
Ms H F MATLANYANE
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Since the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act is going to be reviewed, may I ask the hon Deputy Minister whether this will entail possible changes, like the application of sanctions, to ensure compliance with the components of the Mining Charter by mining companies that do not abide by the social and labour plans? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon member, the answer is actually yes, because we do review documents. First of all, there was the charter process, which we did in 2009, and we actually came back with a revised charter that deals with some of the issues that you are raising. That was implemented from 2010. In order to improve issues, we are reviewing all the time, or as the need arises. The officials meet at quarterly intervals to look into the alignment of all the processes of the SLPs and their impact on communities. We also deal with best practice in order to resolve some of the matters.
Currently there is the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill. The Act is being amended to provide for SLP sections to be amended. The intention is to strengthen the quality of consultation on SLPs.
Clearly, if we see continuous noncompliance, then that will also impact on the licences that we give to mining companies. We are confident that this matter is receiving urgent attention. You will understand that this is a matter that communities have raised as a matter where there have been a lot of inconsistencies in the mining applications. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you very much, House Chairperson. Hon Deputy Minister, there is an argument every now and again that the conditions in which mineworkers live, particularly around the mines, are not acceptable for human occupation. Some mining houses would then argue that, as part of the packages that they are paying the mineworkers, a housing incentive is included. You will find that the money for housing incentives is being used by miners to build houses at home, while they are not building adequate houses for themselves around where they are working. Isn't that on its own a perversion of the incentive scheme, and what solutions can be applied to solve that problem in order to ensure that mining companies and the workers are in compliance with the directives of tax incentives?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chairperson, the hon member will remember that when we passed the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act in 2002, there was a programme that kicked in in 2004. In 2004 we drew up for ourselves a 10-year programme to ensure that living conditions, particularly of mineworkers, were improved, that we eliminated the hostel system, and that mining companies would build houses, where appropriate, for mineworkers. That was a 10-year programme. We do not expect that there will be any single-sex hostels in 2014, and we expect that housing will improve. I must say to the hon member that a lot of that has happened in some companies. There are companies that are lagging behind, but the deadline is very firm. The date, 1 May 2014, is the final date by which this should be implemented.
With regard to the issue of housing incentives, this is a matter that surfaced especially when we looked into the areas of Rustenburg and Marikana, where the mining companies have implemented some of these incentives whilst knowing that they are supposed to be providing decent accommodation for mineworkers. We will not relent on this question and this is a matter that we take very seriously. The mining companies know that the law provides for them, as part of their licence conditions, to ensure that they provide decent living conditions to mineworkers.
With regard to other working conditions of mineworkers, I think that we as Parliament have taken steps on this, and the Presidential Package is also looking into this comprehensively. I am confident that we will turn this around. We have some time to look into what needs to be done. Thank you very much, hon member. [Applause.]
Mr J R B LORIMER
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Mr J R B LORIMER: Hon Chairperson, the section of the Mining Charter that deals with this is section 2.6. It says that mines should make, in its words, "a meaningful contribution to community development". The lack of clarity of these words is frequently mentioned as a disincentive to investment. Can the Deputy Minister tell us how this "meaningful contribution" is measured, and how the department can guard against the imprecision of this provision, meaning that it is applied unevenly?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Chairperson, we do give guidelines to mining companies in regard to the development of SLPs, in order for them to be in line with local economic development and the IDPs of the municipalities where they are operating. There are clear guidelines and, as we review the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, we are also strengthening that part. What we have been saying to companies is that they must review their SLPs every five years to ensure that they have an impact on communities.
I am a witness to the fact that there are areas where you can go right now and where you will see clear improvements in the towns and municipalities due to contributions by mining companies. As I said, there are those that are lagging behind, and we meet with them from time to time. Our officials meet at quarterly intervals and conduct inspections at the mines to ensure compliance.
Hon member, that part that you were reading is not about the expansion and the guidelines that we give to mines from time to time. We are satisfied that the guidelines are very clear. We are improving from time to time, and work is happening on the ground. Thank you very much.
Ms S R BEREND
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Ms S R BEREND: Thank you, Chairperson. Thank you very much, hon Deputy Minister. The first part of my question has been answered, but we also want to know from the hon Deputy Minister what the charter envisages to ensure that promoters of the projects are allowed to develop in ways that are consistent with the community's own vision, taking into account that the same community values will be challenged by the intense social changes brought about by mining operations, and the potential influx of people from neighbouring countries, African countries and others. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Chairperson, I must confess that the hon member has asked a very broad question, but the guidelines that are given are in line with the IDPs of the surrounding communities and municipalities, and their local economic development plans. They are what guides the IDPs and that is the guidance that we are giving in terms of interaction with stakeholders, which are the mining industries, the communities and the municipalities. That is the best way to deal with it.
In regard to the influx of people who are coming from neighbouring communities or countries, mining operations do invite people to come, because that is where jobs are created, where the economic opportunities are, where the procurement opportunities are, and so forth. Therefore, noting the unemployment that we have in our country and elsewhere, it is not surprising that you will see people coming to look for greener pastures. Thank you, Madam Chair. [Applause.]
Adv H C SCHMIDT
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Adv H C SCHMIDT: Hon Chair, although we acknowledge the responsibility of the mining companies to contribute in accordance with the social and labour plans in terms of the Mining Charter, it is important to note that the mining sector contributes approximately 8% of the national GDP. Many billions of rands are paid to government in taxes, royalties, fees and other charges in fulfilment of that particular responsibility.
Hon Deputy Minister, the question is what steps you are taking to ensure that the ANC government at the local, provincial and national levels is fulfilling its duties towards the receiving and labour-sending mining communities, in regard to water, electricity, sewerage reticulation and the health sector. Also, what is it doing to contribute to uplifting those mining communities, where the responsibility should be co-shared with the mining sector? Thank you very much. [Applause]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Should I proceed, Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Deputy Minister, you may go ahead.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Thank you very much, Chairperson. I think the hon member must appreciate that we do recognise the contribution made by the mining industry to the economy of our country and by the taxes that they are paying. We recognise that. However, he should also recognise that most of them are making massive profits out of this country as well. So, as we try to balance this and say that mining companies are making their contribution and that government must also play its role, we must not detract from that fact.
The mining companies have not complained to us about taxes because the taxes are comparable with taxes elsewhere. This is not a major concern that has been raised.
Government has played its role in regard to water provision, and the statistics are very impressive. The ANC-led government has done better than any other government before in this country with regard to the provision of water, electricity and the services that the hon member has talked about. We do do what we are expected to do, and the record is there for you to see. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES – Question 185
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES – Question 150
Question 185:
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Chairperson, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries co-ordinated and is implementing the resolutions of the National Farm Workers Summit of 2010 on vulnerable workers.
The National Vulnerable Workers Delivery Forum, which is a task team working on the conditions of service of vulnerable workers, security of tenure, empowerment and training, and social determinants of service delivery to farm workers, has been convened.
The training lay-off schemes of the Department of Labour are working very well. The retraining of agriculture farm workers, as well as vulnerable workers, through AgriSETA, is also progressing well.
In 2008 the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform established a Land Rights Management Facility which provides services to farm dwellers and labour tenants, and it continues to be one of the interventions of the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform's programmes to support vulnerable workers and farm workers.
A call centre and a toll free number are there for farm workers to report illegal evictions from farms. This toll free number has been working very well. Line function setas continue to play a meaningful role in the development and capacity of vulnerable workers. The Deputy President's series of dialogues with farm workers and farmers is slowly progressing very well to bring together, and to have coherence between, farm workers and farmers. I thank you.
Mrs A STEYN
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The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
Mrs A STEYN: Thank you, Chairperson. Minister, thank you for that answer. I asked you the exact same question as a written question in June last year, and I received the exact same answer!
The problem is, given the facts that the department actually set up a Vulnerable Workers Task Team; the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform is doing what they have been doing since 2009; this department gave the Black Association of the Wine and Spirits Industry, Bawsi, R4,1 million in October 2012; and the head of Bawsi was the leading figure of the farm worker strike that took place only three weeks after this funding was given by the department; how did the Minister not then indirectly fund this strike? If your department has done nothing since 2010 when you had the farm worker summit, and actually funded only one NGO, namely Bawsi, three weeks before the strike ... [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson, the same question has been asked since June last year. The hon member is still stuck and she will continue with this type of question until May next year. So this stuck record, hon members, you will hear until May next year. Unfortunately, the member doesn't have the capacity to move beyond this question. She will continue getting the same answer until May next year.
Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, on a point of order: The Minister is casting aspersions on the integrity of the hon member by saying that she lacks capacity and I would like that to be withdrawn please.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Hon Kalyan, I don't think that is a point of order.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson, the member herself emphasised that she has been asking this question since June last year. The money which has been given to farm worker organisations and NGOs will continue to be given, because the Western Cape has failed since 2009 to do anything for farm workers. Since you have such good information, maybe you can find out through your sinister and devious means who else has been funded. I thank you.
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for the Minister to accuse hon Steyn of using "sinister and devious" methods? I think it is casting aspersions on the integrity of a member of this House and it should be withdrawn.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): I don't think that is a point of order ... [Interjections.] ... and I don't think that there are any aspersions. [Interjections.] There are five members who wish to ask supplementary questions ...
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Chairperson, on a point of order: ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): ... and may I give you their names: ...
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, I am addressing you on a point of order. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): ... hon Kganare, hon Cebekhulu, hon Ndebele, hon Twala and hon Bhanga. [Interjections.] The hon Kganare should please take the floor. [Interjections.] Yes, Mrs Kalyan?
Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, on a point of order: Two of us have addressed you on the use of unparliamentary language in terms of Rule 63. On both occasions you have just given your personal opinion. Madam, I submit that that is incorrect and I ask you to review your decision. The use of unparliamentary language and casting aspersions on the integrity of a member is what I am referring to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, on a point of order: The presiding officer has ruled and the member says it is an opinion. She expresses her opinion and she wants her opinion to be substituted for the opinion of the presiding officer. I think that is out of order.
Mr E M SOGONI: Chairperson, on a point of order: When the Minister was responding, hon Ollis there pointed up a middle finger. Is it parliamentary to do that?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Hon member, that is not a point of order. Please sit down. [Laughter.] Can we get on with the debate because, as it is, it is my opinion and your opinion? At the moment, I happen to be in this Chair and I am saying that those two are not points of order. [Interjections.] Can we get on with the debate?
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, may I address you?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Please, Mrs Kalyan, sit down. Hon Kganare, can you please put your question?
Mr B M BHANGA: Hon Chair, it is Bhanga. I pressed the wrong button.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): All right.
Mr B M BHANGA: It is Bhanga. It is Bhanga. I pressed the wrong button, for Mr Kganare.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Oh, goodness. Then you are right down at the bottom. You will have to wait your turn. [Laughter.] I now ask hon Cebekhulu to take the floor, or did he also press the wrong button?
Mr R N CEBEKHULU
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)
Mr R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you, House Chair. Minister, thank you for the responses you gave. If I may ask, hon Minister, how much money was spent by the department on supporting farm workers during the recent strikes, and what impact did the assistance have on the development of the local economy?
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon member, when I have those figures I will be able to supply them. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon chairperson, may I please just request the following. There was really a slip. Hon Bhanga pressed hon Kganare's button. Can you please just allow him to pose his question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): I didn't say that I would not. I said that he would have to await his turn now. He will just have to await his turn. I call the hon Ndebele. Sorry, can the hon Bhanga put his question?
Mr B M BHANGA
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)
Mr B M BHANGA: Hon Chair, I thank the Minister. After 20 years of freedom, the lives of the farm workers continue to be the same. Is the solution of the ANC to a better life for the families in the farming community a call centre?
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson, now that the hon member has found his hon button, I think I will be able to press the right buttons and say that a better life for all on farms was not achieved overnight, but has been worked on consistently. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Order! Can the hon Ndebele please put his supplementary question? [Interjections.] Apparently, that button was also wrongly pressed. I call upon the hon Twala.
Mrs N M TWALA
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)
Mrs N M TWALA: Thank you, Chairperson. Outside the sectoral determination, can the Minister outline to this august House any socioeconomic programmes like housing, education and health as part of a holistic approach to bettering the lives of our vulnerable workers? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Chairperson, I thank the hon member. Yes, we would like to work towards collective bargaining for farm workers, and a number of farmer organisations, including AgriSA, have been engaged in working towards a system of collective bargaining. We believe that when we eventually have collective bargaining for farm workers there will be a better wage or labour dispensation, as well as better conditions of service for farm workers.
In the meantime, with sectoral determination and work with the Minister of Labour, we have been able to see consistent and significant progress. Sustainable progress in the lives of vulnerable workers will come through service delivery, or in the form of socioeconomic development.
With the Department of Rural development and Land Reform and our programmes on intervention into the rural economy, we have been able to be united in action towards socioeconomic freedom. [Time expired.] I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Order! Are there any further supplementary questions? Oh, I believe that only four are allowed and we have had the four, despite all the buttons being pushed wrongly!
I come now to Question 189, which has been asked by the hon P D Mbhele and put to the Minister of Mineral Resources.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson, I would just like to indicate that hon Mr P D Mbhele is not here today but hon Mr B M Bhanga will stand in for him. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES – Question 189
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Mrs J D KILIAN (The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES – Question 185)
Question 189:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chairperson, the response to the question is that the Department of Mineral Resources established the Mining Industry Growth, Development and Employment Task Team, Migdett, in December 2008 in response to the implosion of the global economic and financial crisis. The Migdett mandate was two-pronged, namely, to collectively develop a mechanism to mitigate the impact of impending job losses as a result of the crisis, and to develop a strategy to prepare a trajectory for long-term labour absorptive growth for the industry once the crisis receded.
The work of Migdett remains active to date, as the crisis has been protracted. The Platinum Task Team was specifically established to respond to the challenges faced by the sector in June last year, and it culminated in a report of Migdett being adopted by the respective principals. This report demonstrates the continued effort of the department to mitigate job losses and to work with business to find the means to restore the long-term viability of the sector. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): I see that there are a number of supplementary questions, and amongst them there is hon A Steyn, hon Hlengwa, hon Bhanga and hon Lorimer. It seems to be the same people asking questions. [Interjections.]
Mr B M BHANGA
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)
Mr B M BHANGA: Chairperson, it is nice today in Parliament! Thank you, Deputy Minister. In regard to the proposed programme and strategy that we have come up with, what tangible impact does that have on the daily lives of the ordinary mineworkers who are confronted by this reality? What monitoring mechanism have you put in place in order to detect whether the programme is working or not? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chairperson, it is clear that hon Bhanga does not participate in the portfolio committee, where the information on the impact is given on a regular basis.
You will recall that after the crisis we reported that we could prevent the loss of over 100 000 jobs in the crisis. We continue to do so on an ongoing basis and, as we said, in this crisis they are still protected. For instance, just to give a recent example, we have been busy with the Platinum Task Team, which has looked into how to protect jobs and ensure that they are not lost, as we have said.
In the Budget Speech last week the Minister gave some indication of jobs that have been saved in this process by our talking to industries and trade unions to ensure that we minimise job losses in the industry. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig)
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 34
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): I call on the hon Steyn.
Mr M WATERS: That was for the previous question, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): So how come it has come onto my screen? All right. Then, does the hon Lorimer wish to put a question?
Mr J R B LORIMER: Yes, indeed, Madam Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Then it will be the hon Hlengwa.
Mr J R B LORIMER: Thanks, Madam Chair. Deputy Minister, you say that Migdett is the answer to job losses. Well, it's not working. Jobs have been lost at Coal of Africa and jobs are being lost in the gold sector. You may be proud that government has saved jobs at Amplats, but the fact is that 6 000 jobs have been lost at Amplats.
Rather than threatening companies if they try to cut jobs, would the government not better spend its time and energy in creating a climate where investors want to invest, and where companies can operate easily, so that they are not put in a position where they want to cut jobs?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Lorimer, this government cannot afford to do nothing when there are problems in the mining industry. [Applause.] We have to intervene, and this intervention of Migdett has worked very well for this country. This intervention has been lauded by the mining industry, the trade unions and the government. It has worked. It's a tripartite system that has worked. How we have resolved and we continue to resolve problems in this country is by talking to each other at these forums that we are talking about.
It has been the history of this country, even within Nedlac, that we talk to partners and stakeholders to minimise the negative global impact in the country. For instance, you talk about Amplats and say that we have lost 6 000 jobs. However, you cannot say that for sure, because the task team is still working to ensure that we minimise job losses, so that they are not to the extent that you are talking about. So, you don't have all the facts.
In regard to investors, we meet them all the time in our daily lives, and they do not talk the language you are talking. There are investors here. I told you last week that in the platinum, zinc and other industries, like manganese, there are programmes and projects that are shovel ready. Investors are coming and investing in this country.
We do recognise that there are industrial relations problems in the country. However, the Minister of Labour, the Minister of Mineral Resources and the Deputy President are involved with interventions, and there are responses that are very positive.
I would advise you to update yourself on the positive impact that is being made in the industry, rather than just staying negative about the ANC government. You won't succeed. [Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA
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Wednesday, 5 June 2013 Take: 34
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you very much, House Chairperson. Deputy Minister, the National Development Plan charges the Department of Mineral Resources to create 300 000 jobs by 2013. Now, in the light of the job-shedding that is taking place in the mining industry, do you still believe that you are on track with this target and, if so, what urgent plans are in place to help retain those jobs? Secondly, with the issue of Migdett that you alluded to, how far are you with aligning that with the prescripts of the National Development Plan?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Chairperson, I thank the hon member very much. In regard to alignment, it's an ongoing process. When we align with the NDP, we are not talking about the Migdett process only, because the Migdett process is one element of trying to have stakeholders talk about the issues around this matter, both positive and negative. So alignment, generally, with the policies is an ongoing process.
In regard to job creation, I am not able to give you the statistics now, but our daily interventions and so on are to attract investment to ensure that jobs are created.
We have rolled this out to you hon members. We have said that part of the expansion in the mining industry is the new mines that are coming on stream. To give you one example, of a possible 10 000 jobs that are coming on stream in the near future, we have one of the biggest zinc deposits in the Northern Cape that will be ramping up in 2015. So, lots of jobs will be created there.
We have also outlined to Parliament a beneficiation strategy that will ensure that we not only export mineral resources in their raw form from this country, but we add value. Those are job spinners that are coming, and work is happening as we speak.
So, I can just assure you of this. While I cannot give you the statistics for sure now in regard to how many jobs will be created, but I can say, you can rest assured that we are marching forward in the mining industry. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms F C BIKANI
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Ms F C BIKANI: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Deputy Minister, in the light of the upcoming collective bargaining period, how possible will it be for the Minister of Mineral Resources, as well as the Minister of Labour, to ensure that there are discussions on, firstly, an acceptable minimum wage for all employees in the mining industry, and, secondly, doing away with the Paterson grading system? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chairperson, I thank the hon member very much. We have all hands on deck on this matter relating to what should be happening to stabilise the mining industry. I think you will recall that the President intervened and the Deputy President is also busy with the process of dealing with the general stabilisation of labour relations in the industry.
Secondly, in regard to the collective bargaining period that we are talking about, we know that this is a very difficult time for the mining industry, and it has always been looked at as the strike season. However, you will recall that the National Union of Mineworkers has taken the step of inviting the Chamber of Mines to pre-bargaining negotiations, to try to see how they can best deal with this difficult task.
The last question that you raised, hon member, is about the Paterson band grading scheme. I think it is a matter that is in the purview of collective bargaining and negotiations, and that I think the trade unions and employers must be able to guide us as to how best to continue with or get out of that system. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J H STEENHUISEN
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Madam Chair, sorry, I wish to put a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): What is the problem?
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Madam Chair, we traditionally allow four follow-up questions. I know that hon Schmidt put his name forward, but you are moving forward without asking if there are any others.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): The screen has gone blank. That means that four questions were ...
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Madam Chair, with respect, I approached the National Assembly Table and told them that hon Schmidt would like his name to be included.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Well, his name was there but it was removed. That is why I did not call him. I suggest you write a letter that they upgrade all the systems.
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Sorry, Madam Chair. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Apparently, it is at the discretion of the Chair to decide how many follow-up questions will be taken, and the DA already had two questions.
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Madam Chair, it is four questions, but the Rules do not specify that it has to rotate in terms of party.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Yes, all right, but it says that the person in the Chair can decide how many questions will be taken.
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: So, Madam Chair, may I ask whether you are suppressing the debate then? [Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): I am not suppressing the debate. [Interjection.]
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: I would respectfully submit that if you are blocking a question, Madam Chair, you are suppressing the debate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): No, I'm not suppressing the debate, and please take your seat. [Interjections.] The Minister of Tourism apparently ... [Interjections.] Can somebody from the Table come up here?
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Where is the Deputy Minister? Ah, there she is sitting.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson, can I perhaps just refer you to the Rule?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Sorry, Mrs Kilian and the Deputy Minister look very much alike today, so I'm unable to tell the difference. [Laughter.] Can we please get on with the debate?
Yes, Mrs Kilian, what is your point of order?
Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, I actually had a look, and we have four supplementary questions in terms of Rule 113(4). I think what maybe led to the confusion was the fact that our member stood in. Hon Mzwenqaba Bhanga stood in for the hon Mbhele. I think maybe that is what contributed to the confusion. However, in addition to his supplementary question, there could be three others. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Thank you for the information. Hon Deputy Minister, ...
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Chair, may I address you please?
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): What is it, Mrs Kalyan?
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, at the Chief Whips' Forum today we discussed the fact that we would always respect the ruling of the presiding officer, and we agreed on this. However, I regret, Madam, that this afternoon I cannot respect you, because some of your decisions have not been in the interest of fair debate. [Interjection.]
You reflected just now that it is in your discretion to allow follow-up questions. Because the DA had two, you thought it was one too many. Now, Madam, when you make a ruling like that, in all honesty we cannot say that there is fairness and justness on your part in the way you are treating the opposition parties. [Interjections.]
The ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: A point of order, House Chair. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): May I reply to Mrs Kalyan?
The ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, may I address you? [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Just hold on a moment, whoever you are.
The ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, may I address you?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Yes, just hold on a second. Let me reply to her.
First of all, the name "Steyn" was an old name that came up and that we removed. Then, we had the hon Hlengwa from the IPF, the hon Bhanga, the hon Lorimer and the hon Bikani. [Interjections.] Yes, we did. So, please get your names and your figures right. Yes, Madam.
The ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I would like to address you. With due respect to my colleague from the DA, this morning we in the Chief Whips' Forum indeed reflected on the decorum of the House and ensuring that we maintained that.
Part of what we said was that if a presiding officer made a ruling that we did not agree with, we as members of the House would definitely follow the relevant procedure, which has not been the case here. The relevant procedure is to take the matter up with the presiding officers, to write to them and request them to look at the Rules in that regard and to request that the ruling be reviewed.
I am appealing to the House today that we should try our level best to make sure that proceedings run smoothly, and that we therefore maintain the decorum of the House. If we as members are not happy with the presiding officer's rulings, we have a platform on which to take them up. I am really appealing to all members from both sides of the House. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Thank you, Acting Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM: May I continue, Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Please, hon Deputy Minister, continue.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM – Question 154
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig) (The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES – Question 189)
Question 154:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM: House Chairperson, in response to the question that has been posed, the National Tourism Sector Strategy, NTSS, has proposed institutional arrangements to be put in place in all spheres of government with a view to guiding municipalities.
The National Department of Tourism co-ordinated a number of workshops in provinces which were attended by municipalities to share best practices in regard to coordination. In the workshops working models were shared by various provinces.
The subject of co-ordination was also raised as an agenda item at the recent Local Government Tourism Conference, where a best-case scenario was shared.
The department is now working with provinces to establish provincial tourism fora which are constituted of provincial tourism departments, authorities and municipalities in order to ensure support to regional and local tourism organisations. I thank you.
Mr L P KHOARAI
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM
Mr L P KHOARAI: Thank you, Chairperson. Deputy Minister, thank you for your answer. You have indicated that in order to ensure the continued growth of the sector, one of the strategic key priorities must be creating a conducive environment for sustainable growth. What does this mean in practical terms?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chairperson, in terms of the National Tourism Sector Strategy we had to look into areas of actual growth. That is, growing further tourism in order to contribute to economic development and creating the much needed jobs. We have identified several areas in which to grow tourism. In those areas there are strategies and implementation plans that are already being implemented as part of our action plan for this year. Thank you very much.
Mrs M A A NJOBE
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM
Mrs M A A NJOBE: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Deputy Minister, how are the regional tourism bureaus empowered in regard to requisite local industry skills and other scientific and research development skills that will strategically and aggressively promote local, as well as state-of-the-art tourism information? How will they at the same time offer co-ordination and co-operation with other government arms as an essential service in providing overall one-stop shop government and tourism information centres? I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chair, as I indicated earlier on, in regard to the provincial fora we are establishing, we are seeking to reach out to all levels so that there will be participation at the provincial, regional and local levels, in order that the agenda and planning for local tourism growth and development is enhanced.
At the recent tourism conference that we held in February this year, we also launched a Tourism Development and Growth Support Programme, which seeks to empower local municipal officials in order for them to be able to plan regarding issues of tourism, as well as market products within their areas. This is in addition to the various tourism information centres that we have all over the country. Thank you.
Mrs C N Z ZIKALALA
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM
Mrs C N Z ZIKALALA: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Deputy Minister, it is all very well for a strategy to have tourism bills at local government level, but you will know that in many instances local municipalities cannot fulfil their service delivery functions due to mismanagement and lack of funds. Therefore, will the national department transfer funds to local government to set up tourism bureaus? I thank you. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chair, I hope the hon member is perhaps referring to by-laws at local government level.
So far, the good start that we have had has flowed from the conference that we held, which provided a great platform for dialogue amongst all the stakeholders so that we are able to ensure that our private and public sectors are able to identify their key role in local government, as well as in tourism.
We have been looking at how we can develop more partnerships between local government and the private sector, which will stimulate tourism growth at the local government level. That in itself, added to the forums we are setting up at local government level, will, we hope, find ways to empower local government to have the necessary by-laws that will assist in ensuring that they have a special focus on tourism, which we believe is one of the backbones of economic development at local government level. Thank you.
Mr S B FARROW
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM
Mr S B FARROW: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, on p 53 the NTSS clearly outlines the concurrent responsibilities and institutional arrangements of the four spheres of government, if we include the district councils. The various interprovincial and local government forums don't seem to be working. Many municipalities lack capacity, resulting in poorly marketed and packaged destination information at their tourist information centres. There is also duplication, which I keep on harping on, in regard to advertising at the various levels. Clearly these forums need to be reconsidered.
Therefore, Deputy Minister, would you not consider your department taking over these information bureaus or visitor centres, as they are called in the affected municipalities, to ensure quality services, proper packaging, and uniform marketing and branding of our tourist destinations, to avoid duplication and wasteful expenditure of scarce resources.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chairperson, the hon member is aware that if we talk about concurrent function, we are also talking about respect for the various spheres of government. However, there has been more integration and working together across the spheres of government, which we think will be instrumental in ensuring that we are able to minimise the misspending of resources or their not being used to achieve more of what we want to do.
The empowerment programme that we have introduced at local government level in collaboration with local government officials, we think, is going to assist municipalities to be able to plan better and to put into their integrated development plans focused attention on tourism.
As indicated earlier on, the visitor information centres that we have at various points throughout the country serve to provide a one-stop shop for information that visitors require, as they move into the various centres showcasing our attractions.
We also need to maintain our respect for the fact that regional tourism organisations, as well as local tourism organisations, should remain competent at their respective levels. For us it means working together, and empowering and learning from each other. There are municipalities and cities that are doing very well. As part of our national programme we are working together closely at Minmec level, where we have a marketing working group which also assists in ensuring that all our structures find ways of working together in marketing the products that we as a country have. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY – Question 139
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TOURISM – Question 154
Question 139:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Hon Chairperson, the response is as follows. The investigation by the National Consumer Commission, NCC, into the labelling of all meat products, as directed by our department on 12 March 2013, in terms of section 86(b) of the Consumer Protection Act, Act 68 of 2008, read together with section 71(2)(a), is currently under way. The NCC will be finalising its investigation by the end of June this year.
Our department published a notice in terms of section 24(4)(a) and (c) of the Act, to prescribe certain categories of goods that are required to have a trade description applied to them. We published notice GG36285 on 22 March this year, and the closing date for comments on the notice on meat product labelling is 21 June 2013.
The Department of Trade and Industry also issued a notice to the Committee on Technical Barriers to Trade, of the World Trade Organisation, through the SA Bureau of Standards on 9 April this year, which will be scheduled by June 2013.
Should anyone be found to have contravened the Act, the commission and the National Consumer Tribunal are empowered to act accordingly. Thank you.
Mr S Z NTAPANE
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
Mr S Z NTAPANE: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the response, hon Deputy Minister. There was a huge outcry out there from consumers about the meat scandal. It will be a shame if nobody is brought to book to answer for this. So I am very pleased with your response. Thank you very much.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): That concludes question time. We will now move on to motions. [Interjections.] Yes, there's only one response. Question time is over. We will now have notices of motion. Does any member wish to give notice of a motion?
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Madam Chair, I rise on point of order regarding Rule 113(4). You called for a reply to the question, allowed the Minister to respond to it and, in terms of the Rule, there are four supplementary questions that must be asked. You can't stop it halfway through.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I have been advised by the Table that the time allocated for questions is two hours and no more. [Interjections.] Please, I don't want to have a debate about it. Look at your Rules on page 40, 113(2). I shall now continue with motions. Who wishes to give notice of a motion? [Interjections.] It doesn't say that in your Rule book, Mr Farrow. It doesn't say so. Please read your Rule book. I don't want to have a debate about this. [Interjections.]
Ms L N MJOBO
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig)
NOTICES OF MOTION
Ms L N MJOBO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates ways to prevent looting and destruction of property during service delivery protests.
I thank you.
Mrs M V MAFOLO
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Ms L N MJOBO
Mrs M V MAFOLO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the need for active citizenry and social activism in order for our democracy and development to flourish.
Thank you.
Mr M S F DE FREITAS
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Mrs M V MAFOLO
Mr M S F DE FREITAS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the reasons why the Government Printing Works will be self-sustaining from the 2014-15 financial year and the lessons other entities and departments can learn from this and how to emulate it.
Thank you.
Ms H N MAKHUBA
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Mr M S F DE FREITAS
Ms H N MAKHUBA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the considerable porosity of our borders, the knock-on and undesirable socio-economic effects of same, and the manner in which we can immediately contain such porosity.
Thank you.
Mr D W MAVUNDA
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Ms H N MAKHUBA
Mr D W MAVUNDA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates exploring mechanisms, particularly in the social programmes, in order to ensure universal access to quality services.
Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA
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Mr D W MAVUNDA
Mr M HLENGWA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates-
(1) the findings of the recent Monetary Policy Review released by the SA Reserve Bank;
(2) the substantial risks these findings could pose to economic growth, employment and inflation; and
(3) the manner in which they can be successfully overcome.
Thank you.
Mr G J SELAU
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Mr M HLENGWA
Mr G J SELAU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the promotion of unity between and amongst citizens of South Africa and foreigners.
Thank you.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
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Mr G J SELAU
NELSON MANDELA EXHIBITION IN PARIS, FRANCE
(Draft Resolution)
The ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I move without notice:
That the House-
(1) welcomes the exhibition aimed at celebrating Tata Nelson Mandela's 95th birthday, which opened its doors on Tuesday, 29 May 2013, at the Paris City Hall as part of the 2013 South Africa-France season;
(2) notes that this exhibition, based on the larger than life story of Madiba and marked by the lighting of the Eiffel Tower with the six colours of the South African flag, will continue until 6 June;
(3) recalls that the exhibition was inspired by the success of the original exhibition at Johannesburg's Apartheid Museum last year;
(4) further recalls that one of the rooms is a re-creation of Tata Madiba's cell on Robben Island; and
(5) commends the organisers and curators for further honouring the legacy of Tata Nelson Mandela.
Agreed to.
Mr S B FARROW
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THE DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
SA MATRICULANTS AT INTERNATIONAL SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING FAIR IN USA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr S B FARROW: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House-
(1) notes that matriculants, Ms Danielle Jacobson of Camps Bay High School, Mr Ben Langer of Herzlia High School, Mr Phillipe Lothaller of Rondebosch Boys' High School, Ms Danielle Mallabone of St Teresa's High School, and Mr Retselisitsoe Monyake of Harmony High School recently impressed judges with their scientific inventions at the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair in Phoenix, Arizona, USA;
(2) further notes that Ms Danielle Jacobson won a $50 000 scholarship to study at West Virginia University for her work on the use of bacteria and nanofibre electrodes to increase the electrical output of microbial fuel cells;
(3) also notes that Mr Ben Langer won the New American University Provost Scholarship to study at the Arizona State University and a $2 500 grant to conduct research at the Office of Knowledge Enterprise Development for his work on adding small accelerants to rocket fuel resulting in an increase of the power-to-weight ratios of rockets;
(4) further notes that Mr Philippe Lothaller won a $7 500 cash prize from the United Airlines Foundation for his invention that reduces the wear and tear of aircraft tyres by attaching scoops to aircraft wheels resulting in the reduction of friction;
(5) recalls that Ms Danielle Mallabone received a $1 000 cash prize for her invention for the use of nonharmful chemicals in life jackets that react on contact with water, resulting in heat generation which prevents hypothermia;
(6) further recalls that Mr Retselisitsoe Monyake was awarded fourth place in his category as well as a $500 cash prize for proving the Pappus Chain Theorem by circle inversion;
(7) believes that these matriculants were selected to participate in the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair following their impressive performances at the Eskom Expo for Young Scientists International Science Fair last year;
(8) acknowledges these matriculants' revolutionary contributions to mathematics, science and engineering technologies;
(9) recognises the importance of science and mathematics in building a knowledge-based economy in South Africa;
(10) further believes that these matriculants serve as an inspiration to the youth of South Africa; and
(11) congratulates these young learners on their remarkable achievements, pioneering new innovative ways of doing things differently through the use of science and mathematics, and wishes them the best in their future endeavours.
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at 17:16.
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