Hansard: Debate on Vote No 8 – Women, Children and People with Disabilities
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 22 May 2013
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 22 May 2013 Take: 563
START OF DAY
WEDNESDAY, 22 MAY 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
_______________________
Members of the Extended Public Committee met in Committee Room E249 at 10:08.
Mrs N J Ngele, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
BV 8: The MINSTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
START OF DAY
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 8 – Women, Children and People with Disabilities:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Igama lamakhosikazi!
Hon MEMBERS: Malibongwe!
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, YOUTH, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, hon members, when opening the first democratic Parliament in 1994, former President Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela had this to say – and we welcome Chief Mandla Mandela - and I quote:
And so we must, constrained by and yet regardless of the accumulated effect of our historical burdens, seize the time to define for ourselves what we want to make of our shared destiny ... And in this glorious vision ... our endeavours must be about the liberation of the woman, the emancipation of the man and the liberty of the child.
With those words, our former President defined what must constitute the building blocks of our collective goals as a nation. The 1994 democratic breakthrough marked a decisive milestone in the creation of a society based on the principles of equality, justice, human dignity and nonsexism.
With regard to corporate governance, hon members would remember that in our speech last year, we said, and I quote:
To ensure good governance and transparency, an independent labour law firm, Fluxmans, has been appointed to investigate allegations of corruption, nepotism and mismanagement in the department.
I am pleased to report to you that the investigation has been finalised and its recommendations have been implemented. This included disciplinary hearings against those implicated, and those found guilty were dismissed. As the ANC-led government, we have declared that there be zero tolerance of corruption and mismanagement.
We have now improved the capacity of the department with the appointment of the new Director-General, Ms Veliswa Baduza, and the chief financial officer. We also have a fully functional audit committee, risk committee, supply-chain management and an improved human resource management unit.
We are therefore confident that we have established the necessary systems, structures and controls that will enable us to discharge our mandate more effectively. The turnaround strategy we adopted in consultation with National Treasury last year is being implemented. The results and improvements are now being realised in the department.
With regard to women empowerment and gender equality, as a nation we have made significant progress in promoting women empowerment and representation in the key decision-making structures. Before 1994, the South African Parliament had a mere 2,7% representation of women. Through the visionary leadership of former President Nelson Mandela and the ANC, women representation immediately increased tenfold to 27% after the 1994 elections. After 1997, having adopted the 30% target at the ANC's conference in Mafikeng, we stood at 30% and 33% representation of women after the 1999 and 2004 elections respectively, under the leadership of former President Thabo Mbeki.
At its Polokwane national conference in 2007, the ANC adopted a fifty-fifty representation target. This jumped women to 44% in Parliament and 43% in Cabinet under the leadership of President Jacob Zuma. [Applause.] The progress our nation is making is mainly due to the commitment of the ANC to women empowerment and gender equality. If other parties in this august House could follow suit, we would have long surpassed the 50% target in South Africa.
This year, we mark the 100th anniversary of the historic women's march, led heroically by Charlotte Maxeke, against the discriminatory pass laws of colonial South Africa, which restricted black people's movements and affected families through the 1913 Native Land Act. The sad and harsh reality of the 1913 Native Land Act, whose sole objective was dispossession of millions of African people of their land, was succinctly captured by the former secretary-general of the ANC, Sol Plaatjie, in his book, Native Life in South Africa, in which he proclaimed, and I quote:
Awakening on Friday morning, June 20, 1913, the South African native found himself, not actually a slave, but a pariah in the land of his birth.
For rural women in particular, the impact and effect of the Land Act was devastating.
During this year, the year of the women's movement centenary, we will advocate for more land to be allocated to women. We are calling on all our partners in government across all three spheres, in partnership with the Commission for Gender Equality, together with the agricultural and business community, to join in this partnership. We will ensure that this campaign includes young women and women with disabilities.
Last year, we informed this House that we were finalising consultations towards the Women Empowerment and Gender Equality Bill. This Bill is based on the International Instruments that South Africa has signed and ratified, including the Beijing Platform for Action, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women and its optional protocol, the African Union Protocol, the Southern African Development Community Gender Protocol, and our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
I am pleased to inform the House that the draft Bill was approved by Cabinet last year in August for public consultation. The draft Bill, which incorporates inputs from public participation, has been tabled at the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, for negotiations. The revised Bill will be tabled in Cabinet for consideration before presentation to the National Assembly.
We believe that this Bill, once enacted, will become a powerful instrument to advance the objectives of gender equality and women empowerment. It will enforce compliance, both within and outside the Public Service. It will continue to influence policy positions and government programmes to reflect the imperatives of gender equality and women empowerment. This Bill will assist in accelerating the engendering of policies and programmes across the public and private sectors.
We continue to work with government departments and state-owned enterprises, such as the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, the Department of Trade and Industry, the Department of Economic Development, the Industrial Development Corporation, the Independent Development Trust, and the Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, to facilitate opportunities for women in rural, peri-urban and informal settlements to participate in the economy.
A number of women projects are unfolding positively, with some women businesses growing in leaps and bounds. For example, in Gauteng Ms Anna Phosa has her business, Dreamland Piggery, doing exceptionally well, with her piggery production already supplying Pick n Pay. [Applause.] She recently acquired an abattoir, and is training other women in piggery production.
In Limpopo, a co-operative of women led by Ms Mavis Mathabathe is becoming a South African brand in the production of Moringa supplements, including tea bags and capsules. She has worked with the University of the Witwatersrand, which has researched and found that Moringa is very rich in antioxidants. They are already exporting it to Indonesia, Swaziland, Botswana, the United States of America, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands. [Applause.] Ms Mathabathe is here in the gallery with us, and you can buy some capsules during lunchtime. [Applause.] The Department of Science and Technology has agreed to build her a factory packhouse in her village.
Ms Nobuntu Landiwe Saka - I am wearing her suit right now ... [Applause.] She has also grown her business in the Eastern Cape to become a household brand with her traditional attire and beadwork. She is now running a sewing training centre with the support of the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and the Eastern Cape provincial government that has agreed to build a factory for women in her village. [Applause.]
In KwaZulu-Natal, women co-operatives led by Ms Maureen Magubane, chairperson of the Women in Agriculture and Rural Development organisation – Ward - have established five bakeries. [Applause.] They have also been awarded a feeding scheme contract by the MEC for education in KwaZulu-Natal, Mr Senzo Mchunu. They are going to get a contract from Simba and have been assisted by the Department of Trade and Industry and Seda to train their 20 co-operatives that are doing feeding schemes in schools in KwaZulu-Natal. [Applause.] They are going to get a contract from Simba to supply them with potatoes from their farms for Simba to produce Simba chips.
We also have representatives from Molo Songololo, a children's organisation that helps poor mothers through economic empowerment and developmental programmes by growing vegetable gardens, and by having sewing projects and a bakery. One of our very, very important people today in the gallery is Mr Nenio Mbazima, a deaf author and comedian. Please buy his book.
IsiZulu:
Konje ithini incwadi yakhe, Sekela Ngqongqoshe?
English:
Where is Nenio? The title of the book is: The Day My World Became Silent. I think he is still on his way. We will meet him later. If you read his book, you will laugh from the first page to the last.
As a department, we continue to support and co-ordinate the development of rural women in all sectors. We will, again, observe International Women's Day on 15 October this year to highlight the situation of rural women in South Africa, and bring their priorities to the attention of the nation, policy-makers and the private sector, as we did last year in KwaZulu-Natal in partnership with the premier's office and the Rural Women's Movement.
With regard to the Traditional Courts Bill, we will continue to work with rural women and other stakeholders to ensure that the provisions of the Bill are consistent with our Constitution and protect the rights of women. Gender-responsive budgeting is an essential tool for development, poverty alleviation and redistribution. You will recall that last year we made an undertaking that, together with the Motsepe Foundation, we would pursue the Women's Budget Initiative to ensure that our budgeting processes and allocations were gender responsive.
I am pleased to inform the House that the Motsepe Foundation has completed baseline research with the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, the Department of Energy, the Department of Trade and Industry, and the Department of Health, in partnership with our department and United Nations agencies, particularly UN Women. This output will reinvigorate multistakeholder gender-responsive budget analysis in South Africa. Deputy Minister, I am happy to report that the Department of Trade and Industry was number one in terms of empowering women in South Africa; and we all know this was through your hard work. [Applause.]
As part of our monitoring mandate, we have developed the Integrated Mainstreaming Framework, as well as sector-specific monitoring and evaluation strategies to monitor progress made in the realisation of the rights and empowerment of all three sectors. We have also developed a quarterly reporting tool so that we will be able to determine trends and progress or progression.
In line with the undertaking we made last year, we launched the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence under the leadership of Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe on 10 December 2012. The council has finalised its annual action plan, and will be engaging with communities through awareness-raising programmes and educational campaigns across the country. This will include road shows, consultations and summits, and driving the 365 Day National Action Plan to End Gender Violence.
Working together with the Ministers of Police, of Justice and Constitutional Development and of Correctional Services, we will continue to support, promote, co-ordinate and monitor access to justice. This includes effective and efficient services for all victims, such as the sexual offences courts, the family violence and sexual offences units in the SA Police Service, the training of police and forensic social workers including investigators, and restorative justice, as well as effective rehabilitation of offenders. These pillars constitute the key elements in our fight against gender-based violence. I am happy to announce that through the UK Department for International Development we have received funding of US$1 million towards the fight against gender-based violence. [Applause.]
During the 57th UN Commission on the Status of Women, the department managed to stage a special parallel signing ceremony on 11 March 2013 at the UN Women headquarters in New York, where we registered South Africa's commitment to the United Nations' campaign to "commit to end violence against women and girls". The ceremony was led by Ms Michelle Bachelet, the Under-Secretary-General of the UN and Executive Director of UN Women.
I am also happy to announce that we have put forward a candidate as Ms Bachelet has been recalled by her country to stand as president of Chile. We presented Ms Sheila Sisulu as our candidate for the position of executive director of UN Women. [Applause.] I hope we shall work together whenever we go out of this country to lobby and make sure that she gets that top position, which is second after Ban Ki-moon.
South Africa was commended for its solo stance in Africa on the issue of sexual orientation and gender identity, as well as on the matter of sexual and reproductive rights for women and girls. We were praised for our valiant efforts in ensuring that, for the first time in the commission, there were agreed-to conclusions on violence against women adopted in the session itself. Several concrete recommendations have emerged and we shall be working hard to ensure that we domesticate this in our country.
We were also congratulated on developing a multisectoral approach towards fighting gender-based violence, by launching the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence on International Human Rights Day last year, and also for launching Orange Day in KwaZulu-Natal and which has moved to Limpopo. This week, on Saturday, we will be launching Orange Day, which is a day for no valance against women and children, which is part of our 365 Day National Action Plan, here in the Western Cape, in Khayelitsha.
With regard to children, the post-apartheid ANC government has always prioritised children's rights and their wellbeing, as part of our overall development plan. Our first President, Nelson Mandela, once said: "There is no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way it treats its children."
Therefore, to give concrete expression to this vision, the ANC government signed the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child as one of the first international and regional instruments we ratified in 1995.
We are happy to announce that we are ready to submit the next report on children to the UN and the African Union in July this year. This report indicates that we have made remarkable progress since receiving our last comments from the UN.
One of the main achievements during this reporting period was the establishment of the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities. Since this government came into power, there have been considerable improvements in the lives of vulnerable children in general, access to their rights, access to services and benefits and a reduction in their poverty levels and inequality. These achievements have been brought about by the numerous progressive pieces of legislation and social and economic policies introduced by the ANC government since 1994.
The Department of Health and the UNAids data show substantial progress in preventing mother-to-child transmission of HIV since 2004. This resulted in a significant drop in child infections during this period. Progress has also been made over the past four years in the implementation of the national Prevention of Mother-to-Child Transmission programme that has enabled South Africa to reduce mother-to-child transmission of HIV from 8% to an estimated 2,7% for six weeks after birth. We are working towards zero transmission.
Through the Department of Social Development, the child support grant, CSG, has had a significant impact on the wellbeing of vulnerable children. A study conducted by the department, SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, and United Nations Children's Fund, Unicef, found that the child support grant promotes early childhood development, reduces stunting, improves school retention and better school outcomes, increases access to health care, lowers the risk of child labour, especially for girls, and lowers risky adolescent behaviour for the most vulnerable children. Therefore, it reduces poverty and vulnerability and helps to break the intergenerational transmission of poverty.
The universalisation of pre-primary year Grade R, through the public school system in terms of the White Paper on Early Childhood Development, 2001, has made early childhood education in the year prior to the start of formal schooling universally available. I am looking forward to the policy process that will address the feasibility of introducing two years of universal access to early childhood education before primary school, as proposed by the National Development Plan. The introduction of pro-poor education policies such as no-fee schools in the poorest areas has ensured that poor learners have access in fee-paying schools through the national norms and standards for public school funding and the exemption of parents from payment.
The scourge of violence against children remains a challenge. We are co-ordinating and continuing, through numerous advocacy programmes including Child Protection Week, led by the Department of Social Development which will be starting next week, to promote the use of positive discipline rather than corporal punishment. We are also working to fight violence against children as articulated in the programmes of the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence, working together with the SA Police Service and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development.
To improve government's co-ordination, advocacy and monitoring capacity, we have revised the National Plan of Action for Children, 2012 to 2017, and come up with a monitoring strategy which establishes a mechanism for co-ordinating, collaborating on and mainstreaming of children's rights.
You may recall, for example, that last year we made a commitment with regard to the Techno Girl programme. One thousand, eight hundred and twenty-nine girls will be part of the June school holiday intake from both the public and private sector. Over 3 920 girls, including girls with disabilities, have undergone job shadowing. As a nation, we must continue relentlessly to encourage girls to pursue careers that have been expected traditionally to be predominantly male.
With regard to furthering the inclusion of children's voices in matters that affect them, we have collaborated with the Nelson Mandela Children's Fund and instituted an annual Children's Parliament to provide children with a platform to report on how civil society is responding to their rights. We went to the Gauteng legislature in 2011. Last year, we went to Mpumalanga. In both sessions, children pleaded with us to address the scourge of violence and abuse. This year, the Nelson Mandela Children's Parliament will be held in the Eastern Cape in partnership with the Eastern Cape provincial government and legislature.
Last year we launched the online child safety campaign in partnership with government departments and Google SA as part of Child Protection Week. The fundamental objective of this campaign is to protect children from harmful online activities. Therefore, it is evident that there remain both major challenges and opportunities to unite around the vision of our first President for all children when he said, and I quote:
Our children are the rock on which our future will be built, our greatest asset as a nation. They will be the leaders of our country, the creators of our wealth, those who care for and protect our people.
Therefore, as a nation we must invest more in our children.
With regard to people with disabilities, the year 1994 also afforded people with disabilities recognition of their rights as equal citizens. The baseline country report ...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): Hon Minister, your time has expired.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Thank you, Chairperson. The Deputy Minister will take over and continue with our report. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mrs D M RAMODIBE / Mpho (Eng)/ LIM (ZLU)/ .../TM / END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs D M RAMODIBE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Lulu Xingwana, Deputy Minister, hon members and distinguished guests, good morning. The ANC supports the Budget Vote.
My focus will be to give an overview of the key issues affecting women, children and people with disabilities. Why was the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities established? According to a resolution taken at the 51st conference of the ANC, I quote the following:
There is a need to strengthen co-ordinating, monitoring and performance mechanisms and evaluation across government departments and all three spheres of government. In this respect, it is the task of the presidency to continually assess levels of integration, and conduct annual reviews on budgeting and programmes. This should include the performance indicators and monitoring processes to ensure improved, effective and humane service delivery to all target groups.
The Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities seeks to drive, accelerate and oversee government's equity, equality and empowerment agenda on women, children and people with disabilities, especially in poor and rural communities. The department aims to collaborate with civil society to ensure conditions for integrated transformation in the three sectors; to improve government's capacity to align planning across the three spheres of government; to monitor policy implementation and the realisation of sector-specific targets for attaining the national goal of halving poverty and unemployment by 2014; and to develop partnerships to strengthen the development of women, children and people with disabilities.
The President, in his state of the nation address said, and I quote: "Improving the status of women remains a critical priority for this government." To date, women continue to be disproportionately affected by poverty, unemployment, disease and underdevelopment. Unequal relations between men and women still exist in almost every area of personal, social and political life.
Although the ANC government has done much in enacting enabling legislation for women empowerment and gender equality, far too much remains to be done.
The ANC government women's representation has increased by nearly one percentage point since 2012, whilst in previous years the average increase was 0,5%. It is a positive sign of effective policies that it is not only the representation of women that has increased, but also their growth in proportion to the growth in the amount of men.
Of the Members of Parliament in the National Assembly, 43,8% are women. Of the 90 members of the National Council of Provinces, 16 permanent delegates are women. This brings the total number of women in Parliament to 189.
This highlights the positive impact that women have had in achieving political access and the positive impact of the adoption of quotas, which was pioneered by the ANC in the famous resolution of one third in 2002. In terms of party representation of women, the ANC has achieved gender parity, followed by Cope.
At Cabinet level, women currently constitute 41%, with 13 of the 34
national Ministers being women. Out of 32 Deputy Ministers, 15 are women. Within the executive, women have therefore moved beyond the 30% critical mass needed to become a powerful force in government.
Women are the chairpersons of 13 of the 34 parliamentary portfolio committees in the National Assembly, and chairpersons of five of the 12 select committees in the National Council of Provinces.
It is important to note that women Ministers and Deputy Ministers have not only been deployed to portfolio committees with which they are traditionally associated, such as arts and culture, health, social services and housing, they have also been appointed to serve in key positions in departments such as the Department of International Relations and Co-Operation, the Department of Defence and Military Veterans, the Department of Home Affairs, the Department of Mineral Resources, the Department of Energy, the Department of Public Enterprises, and the Department of Science and Technology.
In the provincial legislatures, women constitute almost 45% of members, with the Free State and the Northern Cape having the highest number of women at 75% and 52% respectively. Women hold the position of speaker in only two of the nine provincial legislatures. The Speaker of the National Assembly is also a male.
In the labour market, women currently constitute 52% of the South African population, and make up 45,1% of the total labour force. However, only 32,5% of women are gainfully employed, compared to 42,5% of men.
These are significant gains which must be protected through ongoing struggles and partnerships with the ANC government to work to change the lives of those who have yet to taste freedom in real terms. The majority of these women are black, poor, rural, and working-class women. Certainly, this progress is insufficient as the majority of women still find themselves on the lower levels of the South African economy.
Women would do well to remember that they are their own liberators. Throughout our history in South Africa, we have emerged as primary catalysts for change, having been found in the forward trenches of the struggle against apartheid colonialism.
It should now be evident for women and society to appreciate that democracy has laid the foundation for the attainment of equality among the people, including between men and women. However, the challenge is gender equity in the workplace, which needs to be addressed.
The Women Empowerment and Gender Equality Bill intends addressing gender equity. However, it has yet to be introduced and tabled in Parliament. The Bill itself will not be effective without a costing plan.
In terms of budgetary implications, the budget of the department grew from R172,2 million in 2012-13, to R198,3 million in the 2013-14 financial years. Although this is a nominal increase of 2,85%, when inflation is taken into account the budget has actually decreased by 2,6%. Thus, in real terms the department has less funding to work with than it had in the previous financial year.
The implications of this have a direct impact on the core programmes of the department. Moreover, this department's budget constitutes a mere 0,013% of the overall national budget earmarked for the advancement of the rights of women, children and people with disabilities.
As indicated in the 2013 state of the nation address, the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence will be part of the solution to violence against women in South Africa. However, it is not yet clear from the budget exactly how much has been allocated to this council.
The budget for this council is housed within the administration programme and not under women, empowerment and gender equality. In addition, it was noted under the administration programme that a CEO would be appointed for the council
The discrepancies in the number of funded posts between the 2013 estimates of national expenditure and the strategic plan require attention. And, more importantly, even though the department had filled 61% of allocated posts, there were still 12% of funded vacancies in various processes that were not filled, and 27% of the allocated posts were unfunded vacancies.
Given the high turnover of staff in the department and the number of posts that have yet to be filled particularly in core programmes 2, 3 and 4, this poses a challenge and impacts on the department's ability to fulfil its mandate.
Whilst the budgets for administration and the women empowerment and gender equality programme have increased, the budget for programme 4: the rights of people with disabilities, and programme 3: children's rights and responsibilities, have decreased significantly. This is a huge problem as it is going to affect key issues in dealing with violence and rape.
If the allocation for the Commission for Gender Equality is considered, it is clear that the budget for departmental activities regarding women empowerment and gender equality has actually decreased as well. The overall budget for women empowerment and gender equality for 2013-14 is R82,9 million.
It should be noted that the transfer payment for the Commission for Gender Equality amounts to R63,1 million, leaving a remaining R19,8 million. In the previous financial year, the amount remaining after the transfer of funds to the commission was R21,1 million. Thus across all programmes the available budget has been decreased.
The revised strategic plan and the annual performance plan lacked the requisite details in terms of the targets and indicators that link to programme activities for administration. Given the broad description of initiatives stipulated, the allocation of funding appears to be limited on account of the lack of detail.
Given the department's limited budget, it was unclear as to how the remaining activities of the turnaround strategy would be implemented when this was not clearly articulated in the revised strategic plan or annual performance plan.
The filling of key vacancies, such as that of director-general and chief financial officer, as well as those for risk management and supply-chain management, is commended. However, the establishment and implementation of systems and procedures to mitigate the concerns previously raised by the Auditor-General was crucial as was the detail on how this would be achieved in the 2013-2014 financial periods.
I wish to commend the Minister for instituting the investigation into the Fluxman's report. This is a demonstration of the seriousness of the ANC to root out corruption.
Some of the achievements by the department include the development of a mainstreaming framework with strategies such as advocacy, monitoring and evaluation, institutional support and capacity-building. This will help departments to submit adequate information to the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities in fulfilling its obligations.
The department also participated in international and regional processes on commitments made by the country. Whilst it is important to submit regional and international reports, it is equally important to ensure that these are implemented. The department developed reports on progress made in meeting commitments made in three sectors, such as the initial report on the AU optional Protocol to the African Charter on Human and People's Rights on the Rights of Women in Africa. The department also signed a memorandum of understanding with Nigeria on gender issues.
On economic empowerment, the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities is working with funding agencies on economic development for women entrepreneurs/rural-based women, as has already been indicated by the Minister. The committee had an opportunity to visit some of the projects.
On the rights of people with disabilities, according to a recent briefing by the Department of the Public Service and Administration to the Portfolio Committee on the Public Service and Administration on the employment of people with disabilities in the Public Service, the 2% target had not yet been achieved. The department indicated that as at 31 December 2012, Persal data showed that there were 5 127 employees with disabilities in the Public Service. Only seven of the 39 national departments had achieved the 2% target. The Department of the Public Service and Administration had only attained 1,08%.
Based on the Public Service Commission's report for 2010, progress with representivity for people with disabilities within the Public Service sector continued to be dismal and stood at 0,22% on 30 September 2009. Performance by provinces between 2008 and 2009 in terms of achieving the 2% target reflects overall poor compliance with the target. Moreover, since 2009 the increase in the number of people with disabilities within the public sector has increased marginally only.
I want to share some of the achievements by the department on children's rights and responsibilities. The department has completed reports on the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and on the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child. The Minister also alluded to this.
The key advocacy campaigns and capacity-building programmes include sanitary dignity, education for all, child protection, focus on the girl-child, and strengthening children's participation through the annual Children's Parliament.
In conclusion, when addressing the conference of the women's section of the ANC in Luanda, Angola, in 1981, O R Tambo said, and I quote:
The mobilisation of women is the task, not only of women alone, or of men alone, but of all of us, men and women alike, as comrades in struggle.
Malibongwe! [Applause.]
Mrs H LAMOELA / Mn/END OF TAKE
Mrs D M RAMODIBE
Mrs H LAMOELA: Hon Chair, Minister, Deputy Minister, hon members and all our visitors, thank you so much for sharing in our Budget Vote debate here with us today.
I want to start by paying tribute to all our social workers and dedicated staff who, with minimal resources, huge challenges and brave intentions, fight diligently to implement and monitor legislation made by us in this Parliament.
I sincerely also want to thank all nongovernmental organisations, nonprofit organisations and other civil-society organisations on whom we rely for 60% of welfare services and which tirelessly protect woman, children and people with disabilities against discriminatory action.
This is the fourth year since the establishment of the Department of Woman, Children and People with Disabilities, yet the interest received for the investment of approximately R500 million is rather disappointing, and outcomes predicted or expected could not be achieved. Have we again failed our vulnerable groups?
Minister, you often reiterate that your department is not an implementing agent and that your role is limited to monitoring and co-ordination, yet monitoring of all your line departments on implementation of legislation does not occur.
If the hon Minister is serious about fulfilling her mandate, she should take the lead in co-ordinating a multipronged approach across all government departments to ensure the best possible outcomes for the most vulnerable of society, which are women, children and people with disabilities.
Minister, in March 2011's review of equity and child rights you said, and I quote:
Childhood should be a happy time for all children. It should be a time when children have opportunities to grow, learn and develop, receive love and care, play freely, feel safe and protected, be healthy, etc.
You then made a commitment that for the sake of the wellbeing of all children, be it in rural or urban areas, you would be working with all other Ministers of departments and other partners to ensure that no child was left behind.
Though we have ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, as well as the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, we have failed in our commitment to make sure that we meet international and regional standards in the realisation of child rights.
Afrikaans:
Voorsitter, ek noem hierdie dinge, want tydens my onlangse besoek aan die Oos-Kaap, was ek geskok om te vind dat kinders in Helenvale, Sewende Laan en Kleinskool - nedersettings van plus, minus 40 jaar oud - in die haaglikste omstandighede leef. Ek het dit met my eie oë gesien.
Hulle leef in omstandighede soos geen toilette, en emmer toilette wat reeds ses tot ag weke gelede verwyder moes word. Hierdie emmers word dan deur kinders in die naby geleë Chattyrivier leeggemaak, omdat die ongerief nie langer verduur kan word nie.
Oorvol skole, 'n hoë misdaad syfer, behuisings tekorte en groot werkloosheid is aan die orde van die dag. Minister, ek het eensklaps besef dat hier defnitief geen sprake van u stelling, en ek haal aan, "Childhood should be a happy time for all children" in sig is nie. Of was dit net vir die plattelandse gebied van Nkandla bedoel?
Bowendien sal daar ook bitter min in hierdie finansiële jaar vir hulle gedoen kan word, omdat u departement se begroting vir die kinderregteprogram gekrimp het, terwyl die begroting vir administrasie die hoogte ingeskiet het met 61% van die totale begroting.
Voorwaar, ek kan nie anders as om vanoggend saam met Minister Trevor Manuel te stem, toe hy gesê het dat die regering van die dag nie langer apartheid vir hul onbevoegdheid en mislukking kan blameer nie.
English:
During our oversight visit to the department in Pretoria – surprisingly, the report on this oversight trip is, since the end March to date, not yet complete - it became quite clear that the working conditions of your staff, staff that are mostly women, are completely unsatisfactory. Surprisingly, these women were too scared to even answer questions relating to their jobs. Some admitted that the conditions are not conducive. Untidy offices, dirty carpets, no air conditioning greeted us on the first and second floors. It was a different situation on the other floors. Confidential documents, such as CVs and applications for advertised posts, were on the floors, as no files were available. A staff member in communications was sharing a desktop computer with someone else. No tools for the trade, Minister! Only after our intervention was he given a laptop.
Since the establishment of the Nation Council Against Gender-Based Violence, costing millions, very little regarding this council has been known. Six months down the line and we still need answers on the mandate of the council, the budget of the council, the establishment of the council and achievements thus far.
During Question Time in the House, the chairperson of the council, Deputy President Motlanthe, also seemed doubtful when answering questions. At least, he was frank and open to the suggestion to get this council up and running.
In the meantime, our women, children and people with disabilities are still being abused, raped and murdered, and one tends to think that all previously established task teams, intersectoral committees and councils should be combined to work with a holistic approach to ensure a compassionate, caring, safe society that could lead to a better life for all our vulnerable people.
The department's website is also an absolute mess. Clearly, very little maintenance takes place. So, it is impossible for ordinary South Africans to access any documents or information on what the department has done or is planning to do. The only message I receive was: system offline.
No government can flourish if it stifles the dreams of half its population. Unless those leading the department embrace the importance of compassion and care for the most vulnerable, the outcomes of programmes implemented will be restricted.
You have failed dismally, Minister, to be at the frontline in overseeing the performance of line departments tasked with implementing policies and programmes aimed at improving the lives of vulnerable groups. Amidst the spiralling statistics of rape and crime, you lack vision for this department in achieving an inclusive society, free from unfair discrimination, inequality, abuse and exploitation.
Instead of taking advice from members of the committee - sound, opposition political advice - you prefer to verbally attack members when questions are addressed to you, with a rather negative attitude when replying to concerns about your department's administration and skewed spending priorities.
The wellbeing, care and safety of women, children and people with disabilities cannot remain a whispered dream. Minister, we cannot allow you to be the only survivor in this department. Vulnerable groups such as women, children and people with disabilities need to be the survivors.
We dare not allow these groups to perish and we will not allow you to make a mockery of the suffering, abuse, rape and murders targeting them.
I quote from one of the many letters received from one of your officials who resigned in disgust, and I quote:
Unfortunately, I resigned from the employ of the department because of a lack of integrity, professionalism and mutual respect through all structures of the department. I resorted to rather being unemployed ...
A women saying this in a women's department –
... than being part of such a pathetic organisation. My reputation is already damaged. From being on top of my career to hit rock bottom didn't do me any good.
One cannot think that this is happening, but it is happening and I have the proof.
In conclusion, I quote, "As the past is interesting to all of us, the future is more."
On behalf of the DA and people like the official just mentioned, children and the disabled, I therefore call on your department to be scrapped in order to free the vulnerable groups of society from your clutches and for them to be where their human rights can be respected. This department can be taken up in either Social Development, or it needs to go back to the Presidency. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs B C DIEMU / Src /END OF TAKE
Mrs H LAMOELA
Mrs B C DIEMU: Hon Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister, hon members and personnel, how does the department justify a payment of an average of R1 million to a third of its employees when we pay 48 skilled and qualified individuals on salary level 13 to 16? What are we getting in return? During the oversight visit in Pretoria, the offices were empty; there were no officials in sight. The filing was not done, and it was a complete mess.
In terms of mainstreaming, one of the department's crucial roles is to promote gender equality by gender mainstreaming. However, we do have equality courts and the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act. It is for this reason that Cope makes it categorically clear that the department has failed the majority of women in South Africa.
During the 2010 Fifa World Cup criminal justice was very swift. One hundred and twenty-two people were brought before the special World Cup courts. That shows that swift action is possible.
Regarding sexual and gender-based violence, the brutality inflicted routinely on women, young and old, is one of the human rights problems paramount in this country. South Africa is leading in violence against women. A woman is raped every minute. Official statistics shows that around 65 000 sexual offences were committed in South Africa last year alone. South Africa's Constitution is famously progressive, but the criminal justice system is out of step.
Only a few reported cases do not fall through the cracks of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Act. The Act is not implemented by policemen and women in the 6% of reported rape cases that end in conviction. A police official that receives the report of rape is required to inform the victim verbally and in writing about the existence of prophylactic treatment, its time constraints and where to access it.
Gender-based violence increases the risk of HIV for women in South Africa. According to UNAids, women who have experienced violence are up to three times more likely to be infected with HIV and Aids than those who have not.
The rape of elderly women has become a norm in our country. The rape of a 100-year-old and partially blind woman in the Eastern Cape highlights just how far our society has sunk into the pit of moral decay. Minister, this shows that there is a fundamental problem in our society. How can the National Council Against Gender Based-Violence help to address this scourge when no funding has been allocated to it? How will it function?
Regarding rural women, despite the two-day National Rural Women's Summit held in 2011 in Tzaneen, Limpopo, on which Rl million was spent, rural women are still poor and landless. Forty-five percent of all female-headed households live below the poverty line and the majority are rural women.
The challenges women presented at the summit are still there; nothing has been done. They lack assets and the right to own land. They lack access to electricity, water and sanitation. Rural women also lack safety and security, and this includes awareness campaigns thereof. Summits and campaigns are only useful when they actually make a difference to the women who attend them. Have any of the women who attended the summit benefited?
Regarding children's rights, the budget for children's rights and responsibility programme has decreased. This is hugely problematic, given the challenges faced by children in the country at present, for example sexual violence, abuse and neglect, child poverty, violence in schools and bullying.
Cope wishes to express its utter dismay at the shifting of goals and targets by the department. The department is still developing a national and provincial plan of action for children's rights, and has put aside R2,4 million for that in the Estimates of Expenditure.
How can it be that the first plan developed on 16 June 1994 by our icon former President Nelson Mandela has taken more than 19 years to be updated? This plan is crucial and serves as the overarching policy plan for guiding the country on children's rights. This plan must be implemented and made available within government and civil society.
The justice system is also failing children who are victims of sexual and psychological abuse. Only 40 offenders are on the Child Protection Register and yet thousands of children are victims of sexual abuse from their minders. Again, Minister, how will the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence with no money help these children?
In terms of people with disabilities, Cabinet reviewed the target in terms of employment equity and decided that the 2% target of employment of people with disabilities was the correct percentage and should be achieved by 31 March 2010. Reports, including the Minister's reply, are that the target has not been achieved.
IsiXhosa:
Intswelangqesho yande kakhulu kwaye ukungaphangeli akuphazamisi nje ubomi bodwa, buchaphazela nempilo.
English:
Our public hearings have shown that people with disabilities still lack access to transport and buildings. Many disabled children are denied their right to attend school or early childhood development programmes. Government buildings do not enact the National Building Regulations and Building Standards Act, amended in 2008. This violates the constitutional right of people with disabilities to an environment that is not harmful to their health or wellbeing. It is a disgrace.
The budget for Programme 4 on the rights of people with disabilities has also decreased. How will this department promote, protect and fulfil the rights of persons with disabilities with limited resources?
Regarding consultants and contractors, Cope's real problem with this department is expenses that aren't necessarily justifiable. For example, the hiring of consultants over the medium-term budget for R3,9 million to work on the wage Bill. Why is the department bringing in consultants when there are four skilled personnel in the wage programme paid an average of R1,2 million? Are they not skilled enough? Why is the department bringing in consultants at a cost of ...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): Hon member, I'm sorry, but your time has expired.
IsiZulu:
Nkskz B C DIEMU: ... ngiyabonga. [Kwaphela isikhathi.] [Ihlombe.]
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE /Nb/Checked by Nobuntu/END OF TAKE
Mrs B C DIEMU
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Chairperson, Members of Parliament and guests, it is of utmost importance for the IFP to honour and support women, particularly those that are raising the next generation. Thus, the IFP believes that this department carries one of the most important national mandates.
I was disappointed recently when the hon Minister responded to one of my questions in the House by simply reminding me that the IFP is not in power, as though the IFP has no stake in the success of our country. We believe that the failures of our government are the failures for all of South Africa. We do not wish to see our country fail. When we participate in these debates, we do so to be constructive. I hope that my input today will be regarded as such.
Since its inception, this department has been under scrutiny. Serious damage has been done by the ample evidence of corruption, nepotism and other transgressions. We are thankful that the Minister instituted an investigation into this. One hopes that the department, now seized with its turnaround strategy, can rise from the ashes and finally start to deliver on its core mandate. Yet this seems to be unlikely. As our chairperson mentioned, inflation has outstripped this department's nominal budget increase, leaving the department with less money than it had before.
While the IFP decries the lack of funding, we also decry the manner in which it, at times, is utilised. Parliament's own research unit revealed that the department has overspent since its inception on travelling, venues and compensation of employees. Forty-eight staff members earn a salary of one million rand per annum - that is 48 staff members out of a full staff complement of 149. In other words, one third of the staff of this department earn an average of R1 million a year.
This is an anomaly in government departments and begs the question why these staff members are so handsomely rewarded when they have failed to meet a number of their targets in the past financial year. The question probably has a number of answers. But one answer, again, lies again in Parliament's five-year expenditure report, which reveals that the department appointed staff outside the approved establishment and available budget. While those facts are known, there also seems to be an oversupply of chief directors, directors and deputy directors, but very few staff in the core programmes. Surely, this situation is untenable?
Let me restate that I see no harm in sending smaller delegations to the United Nations to save on travelling costs. While we must participate in international platforms, this department's severely limited resources demand that we channel funding where it is most needed: the critically underfunded core programmes. Taxpayer money cannot be spent with impunity.
Administration costs consume the lion's share of this budget, leaving the core programmes to share only R106 million. This is small change compared to what other departments have at their disposal.
In fact, to put this into perspective: this is almost the same amount of money the Department of Communications spent on one event, the now infamous IC Indaba. This really calls into question whether any of these women's, children's and disability rights' programmes can really achieve any success with the small change they have been given.
Violence against women and children, especially against our elderly and our children, is the most appalling human rights violation and perhaps the most pervasive in our country. Incidents of violence have continued to increase in 2013, signalling that measures to protect women and children are not effective. We, therefore, welcome the launch of the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence. However, without powers of implementation, this council might become yet another talkshop.
If this council does get off the ground, the IFP believes it should be seized with ending the second round of victimisation faced by victims of rape and abuse. Often when victims come forward, they incur further abuse at police stations, in our courts and at our medical facilities. This deterrent is the very reason for our shockingly low conviction rate amongst perpetrators. Urgent intervention is required.
The funding crisis faced by many NGOs remains a cause for concern. This department must champion a solution, because these organisations are a vital link in our fight, on behalf of the most vulnerable sectors of our society, against abuse. We cannot fight this battle without them.
Our hon Minister has also acknowledged that she does not have the requisite skills within her department. Clearly, a skills audit must be expedited to ensure that this department can move forward with the appropriately skilled and visionary talent. Low staff morale and critical vacancies also need to be addressed as a matter of urgency.
The glaring lack of support from a variety of government departments for this department is also inexcusable. The mammoth task of looking after the most vulnerable sectors of our society cannot be performed by the hon Xingwana and her team alone. It is shameful, to say the least, to see that there are many state departments that are oblivious of their roles and responsibilities and when it comes to complying with many UN conventions South Africa has signed. We need a new approach in this regard.
It is time to answer the persistent question raised by many commentators as to whether this department can still play its envisaged role, considering the challenges. The answer lies in creating a leaner, meaner, more effective department that can deliver on its core mandate.
We acknowledge, hon Minister, and we thank you for the good work that you have done. But we can and must do more. Women, children and people with disabilities still bear the brunt of social and economic challenges. This is unacceptable. The buck stops here with each one of us, this department and with you, hon Minister. So let us keep pursuing the empowerment of women, of children and of people with disabilities, because it is our collective duty to do so. Let us vigorously drive this pursuit until we see success. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms P MADUNA / C.I/Checked by Nobuntu / END OF TAKE
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
Ms P MADUNA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, the department, ladies and gentlemen, I'm dedicating this speech to my son who has cerebral palsy and to all other children with disabilities. Parents should never lose hope when their children are born with certain disabilities. [Applause.]
With the new dispensation after 1994, the ANC-led government put programmes in place to encourage inclusivity – that's English - in society. [Applause.]
The ANC government has a lot to celebrate in the area of removing barriers faced by women with disabilities and in creating an environment conducive to all people with disabilities. In spite of these achievements, there is still a long way to go before we can all declare that we have made a significant difference in making it easy for people with disabilities to learn, work, play and pray in environments that provide them with adequate support.
The ANC calls on the department to heed its call when it says that we should improve services to people with disabilities, especially in the rural areas. Special consideration must be given to accommodate people with disabilities within poverty reduction and economic empowerment programmes. Government and public buildings must be made accessible to people with disabilities, thus the universal access design framework by the department must be finalised.
Society's efforts must be redoubled and focused on the elimination of barriers that limit participation. Disabled people should be treated as equals in society and the economy. This can be achieved by leveraging South African laws and domesticating the United Nations provisions in the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in order to achieve the above. As a country, we do not have a scarcity of laws.
The ANC government has enacted various laws, which are aimed at bringing about a society which eliminates the inequality faced by women based on sex, race, disability, age, sexual orientation, class and geography. We call upon the department to implement these laws and to follow up on their implementation through regular, targeted and systematic monitoring of their impact on the lives of people with disabilities.
The role of monitoring and implementing these laws should also relate to other departments to see whether they are in fact consciously setting out, in their planning processes, to achieve the legislative mandate of the department.
Our challenge is that we are sometimes overwhelmed by these laws. We have little or no knowledge at all of their existence and therefore we may fail to insist on seeing them implemented. This is where it becomes important to get the department to conduct awareness and empowerment activities and to facilitate access for people with disabilities to networks where they too can empower one another and conduct joint advocacy.
In creating these platforms, the department should not run inaccessible and elitist high-flown workshops. As the ANC government, we have to meet the people in their places of comfort, speak the language they understand and explain ourselves when we fail to live up to their expectations.
Society must recognise that children have rights which are enshrined in the Constitution. These rights include the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act of 2007, the Films and Publications Act of 1996, the South African Schools Act of 1996, and the National Education Policy Act of 1996. In these laws, provision is also made for children with disabilities.
A recent report on the representation of people with disabilities in the public sector is cause for concern. The report revealed that over a seven-year period disability representation within the Public Service grew from 0,16% in December 2005 to 1,4% by March 2013.
Reported challenges that feature strongly include inaccessible workplaces in many government buildings and the different interpretation and attitude towards the provision of reasonable accommodation. These factors appear to contribute significantly to the failure to recruit, employ and retain persons with disabilities. With regard to disability, the Public Service failed to reach the 2% target set for March 2010 by Cabinet.
The ANC calls on the department to collaborate with its sister departments to effect change to the above picture. In this regard, we note with appreciation the following report from the Department of the Public Service and Administration in which it says that the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities, the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, and the Department of Labour, to build capacity and encourage compliance with the law by meeting equity targets.
In its 2013-14 strategic plan, the department acknowledges that it remains an indisputable fact that women, children and people with disabilities continue to bear the burden of inequality, a burden compounded by poverty, the HIV pandemic and inadequate access to health care and health care systems, and a burden that this is exacerbated by violence perpetrated against women, children and people with disabilities.
The ANC acknowledges the many achievements that have been recorded, but calls upon the Ministry to double its efforts to remove the barriers in the way of fulfilling the dreams and aspirations of people with disabilities, particularly women and children.
I think I still have time. Mrs Lamoela, you should not be selective when dealing with matters. You are trying to score political points here, as far as I can see. It seems as if you don't understand your role as a Member of Parliament. You are supposed to hold the Minister accountable – yes – but that was not a favour. [Interjections.]
The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Malibongwe! [Applause.]
Hon MEMBERS: Igama lamakhosikazi!
Mrs S U PAULSE
Ms P MADUNA
Mrs S U PAULSE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister and the department, apart from the lack of leadership and the vague goals of the department, the underfunding of projects is my biggest concern regarding the department. It is sad that a department, specifically designed to cater for the needs of vulnerable groups in a country, is clearly failing them.
In August 2012, Minister Xingwana launched the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence. This was broadly welcomed. The council's responsibilities include, among other things, to drive the implementation of the 365-Day National Action Plan to End Gender Violence; to advise government on policy and intervention programmes; and to strengthen national partnerships in the fight against gender-based violence.
It remains unclear whether this council has been properly instituted or given the necessary funding as social injustices against vulnerable groups remain high. The reason I mention this is that in 2011-12 a total of 31 299 sexual offences were reported by adult females according to the SA Police Service. The figure for children who reported sexual offences in the same year was 25 862.
Furthermore, R5 million has been allocated to event co-ordination for special days and only R950 000 to three research-based projects. There is a serious lack of funds for the support of victims of sexual violence in the criminal justice system. Legal and medical assistance and counselling, together with supporting and developing specialised police units to deal with violent and sexual crime, command the Minister's urgent attention.
With the department participating in international conventions - for example the 57th session of the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women in New York - its work on the ground to improve the status of women, children and the disabled has not improved or benefited from the expensive trip paid for by the South African taxpayer.
The most alarming fact is the downward adjustment for the budgets for all programmes on children's rights in this financial year. The Minister and her department should be less interested in spending money on fruitless pilot projects that only result in stillbirths, and should rather invest in the wellbeing of our society. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES / MS .../TM / END OF TAKE
Mrs S U PAULSE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, allow me to observe all protocol in order to save my time. Looking back, we can agree that, even though we could have done better, we have made progress in our task to strengthen collective action towards the realisation of the rights of people with disabilities as equal citizens.
The finalisation of the baseline country report on the rights of people with disabilities in April 2013 has provided us, for the first time, with a comprehensive platform from which we can measure progress, and set targets aimed at improving the outcomes of our collective efforts to improve the lives of people with disabilities.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the disability rights movement, parents of children with disabilities, disabled people individually and collectively, all three spheres of government, state-owned enterprises, institutions of higher education and training, Parliament, and Chapter 9 and 10 institutions for their contribution to making this United Nations report a reality.
The ANC-led government has done well in putting in place reasonable accommodation measures that unlock opportunities for people with disabilities, remove barriers to participation, enable self-representation and facilitate access. A few that can be mentioned include the following. Taxpayers are able to claim tax benefits for all disability-related costs incurred. We call on all taxpayers who have not made use of this measure, to visit their nearest SA Revenue Service office to register for this significant benefit and in particular, parents, guardians and caregivers of children with disabilities. In this way, we will stop equating disability with costs.
Also, voters with visual impairment are now able to vote in secret and unassisted, following the development of a universal ballot template by the Independent Electoral Commission, in partnership with the SA National Council for the Blind. As we move towards the elections, nobody will be able to cheat us, as we will be able to make our own mark. [Applause.] In addition, the Reserve Bank has ensured that by following a participatory consultative process with disabled people's organisations the Mandela banknotes have special features to ensure accessibility for people with visual impairment. In that way, the hon Danny Kekana will not give somebody a R200 note thinking it is a R20 note.
The ANC, in its 2009 manifesto, set out five national priorities to which we remain committed. We gave life to these commitments through action-driven projects focusing on investing in the empowerment of people with disabilities. We call on South Africans with disabilities to ensure that they participate effectively in the ANC manifesto development processes in order to ensure that the 2014-2019 manifesto has better articulated disability-specific priorities and outcomes. Vote ANC! The better life is nearly there.
Economic independence for the majority of South Africans remains elusive. Access to finance is but one of the many obstacles faced by entrepreneurs, and disabled entrepreneurs are no exception. My appreciation therefore goes to the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, which has funded Vuka Academy Driving School that is owned by a disabled entrepreneur and which is intended to facilitate access to driving for those with mobility impairment. It is currently operating in the Free Sate and the Northern Cape. [Applause.] We believe and trust that more funding will be made available so that this project can expand to other provinces, since access to transport remains a dream for the majority of disabled South Africans. We know that ... hawu! nathi sifuna ukukhipha ingcoza ... you know, and drive ourselves.
Organisations such as the Medunsa Organisation for Disabled Entrepreneurs, Mode, the Disability Workshop Development Enterprise, DWDE, and the Work 4 You social enterprise, to mention a few, have all developed expertise through innovation and forging partnerships in developing the entrepreneurial and productivity skills and capacities of people with disabilities across the impairment spectrum.
The R50-million disability grant allocated by the IDC, and the expertise acquired by the organisations I have mentioned, amongst others, could go a long way in easing the burden of lack of economic empowerment for entrepreneurs with disabilities, if they join hands.
Allow me to congratulate institutions such as the Athena Private Further Education and Training College and the SA Disability Development Trust that have both formed partnerships with Sector Education and Training Authorities, Setas, and companies such as Woolworths, Waltons, Makro, the Foschini Group, the Southern Sun hotel groups and rural municipalities, just to mention a few, in skilling young people with disabilities, even those in the deepest rural areas, through learnerships and placements, thereby enabling these companies to exceed their set 2% target. We call upon the private sector and government to yield to the call.
As one of the beneficiaries, Sizakele Mdladlana from Khayelitsha, a wheelchair user said: "I am a taxpayer. I have my own house, got married and proudly take care of my own family." Indeed, being a disabled woman, an eligible bachelor did not see her wheelchair but saw a beautiful woman. [Applause.]
There is ability in disability, that is if you define us according to our disabilities. In ensuring that disabled people with their God-given talents benefit and contribute to the Mzansi Golden Economy, as announced by Minister Mashatile, we facilitated and supported the establishment of an agency called the Gifted Stars, with the slogan: It is your time to shine.
Gifted Stars will grow into a one-stop shop for many talented persons with disabilities to knock and access opportunities, as well as for the industry to find talented disabled people. This agency will cater for, amongst others, actors, and for broadcasting, literature, dancing, singing and art, just to mention a few. I see that the hon Lamoela watches 7de Laan. I want to mention that Koosie in 7de Laan also benefited from the Gifted Stars. He is a young person with Down syndrome. [Applause.]
We would all agree that education remains a crucial weapon to liberating people from oppression. The same is true for people with disabilities. To accelerate that reality we engaged institutions of higher education and training to create an enabling environment for students with disabilities through the facilitation of the establishment of disability rights units; the development of disability policies; the inclusion of disability in diversity programmes; and the consolidation and the establishment of the Higher Education Disability Services Association, Hedsa.
We further ensured that there was a review of the funding guidelines of the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, Nsfas, for reasonable accommodation support for students with disabilities, especially as it pertains to assistive devices and personal assistance. It was good that Nsfas bought the hon Thandi a fancy motorised wheelchair when she arrived at varsity. But when Niniwe Mbazima, a deaf student, arrived at university requiring a sign language interpreter, then all of a sudden the sign language interpreter did not constitute being an assistive device. Today it does, so deaf people have access to university. [Applause.] We call on all students, with or without disabilities, to familiarise themselves with these new guidelines and ensure their adherence.
It has never been the belief of the ANC-led government that it alone could solve the social challenges faced by South Africans. Hence, as we realise our goal of working together, it gives hope to every South African.
Allow me to borrow the words of now 19-year-old Chaeli Mycroft. This 17-year-old, severely disabled young girl, a first-year student at the University of Cape Town this year, said:
Hope is what keeps us going; it's what keeps us striving for the lives we deserve. I have hope for myself, but I also have hope for all other children with disabilities. I hope that my actions as an ability activist will leave the world more accepting and more accommodating for all people and not just people with disabilities, because we are all different and we all have the need to be accepted, regardless of having a disability or not.
[Applause.]
These are the same words of hope echoed by the children of the Pontsho disability centre in Khureng village, in the Lepelle-Nkumpi Municipality in Limpopo province. Today, they play and learn in a state-of-the-art centre built for them, instead of the shack they were cramped up in. The children and their parents had hope that one day their dream of decent and safe facilities would become a reality.
Our thanks go to Mutual & Federal, the SA Breweries, Absa Bank, Defy, Nestlé, Mr Price, the Al-Imdaad Foundation and the many other local businesses that demonstrated that together we can turn hope into reality, as we did in Khureng village. [Applause.]
Armed with the same commitment to make dreams a reality through partnerships, Konica Minolta, the MTN Foundation and Neotel ensured that a fully accessible computer laboratory, equipped with all access-related hardware and software, became a reality for the students of the University of Limpopo. They have no excuse not to excel. We thank the three organisations.
In the same vein, the Sive School for the Deaf in Kokstad, in the rural Eastern Cape, stands proud today, with well-trained teachers, a functional library, and a renovated school and boarding facilities, after being included in the M-Net Naledi Children's Literacy Project, one of the M-Net Cares projects. It is also a school for the deaf. Four more schools for different disabilities have been included in this programme this year. Our thanks go to M-Net Cares.
Hope is what the women of Gombani, a deep rural village in the Mutale Local Municipality in the Vhembe district of Limpopo, had. Today, they are making bricks and constructing their own houses, using the hydrofoam alternative construction technology. This was made possible through a partnership between the MTN Foundation, Pretoria Portland Cement, Lafarge, and Siya Zama. This partnership was co-ordinated by the Independent Development Trust, and supported by Karen Khula, a woman-owned construction company at level seven, as well as by SA Woman in Construction for technical assistance and quality control. A better life has indeed arrived in Gombani. [Applause.]
Hope for children with intellectual and mental disabilities and their families is, at times, a distant dream, as the hon Maduna said. However, we are changing this through partnerships. For the learners at Forest Town School, a school for children with severe disabilities - and supported by teachers who believe in them - PPC Cement and other private-sector donors, have made it possible for a bakery, a confectionery, a coffee shop, a beauty salon and an ICT repair centre to be established for all those over the age of 16, in order to acquire labour-market skills, rather than go home to nothing. As we are aware, children with intellectual disabilities do not make it in our labour market. However, we stand proud because now they are. We also thank PPC Cement for employing some of the children who have gone through the school-to-work programme.
We handed over these facilities with pride, knowing well that even though they have intellectual disabilities, they will be contributing to the economy of the country and not be mere beneficiaries of social services. We call on government, Setas, state-owned enterprises, parents, communities and captains of industry to give them a chance by continuing to support them and ensuring that they access the labour market.
South Africa stands proud among nations on many issues, and disability rights are no exception. With the signing and ratification of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in 2007, we are beginning to give effect to articles such as Article 32 on international co-operation.
With the support provided to a number of disabled people from other African counties and the world, we have witnessed the goodwill of our African people who have turned hope and a dream of a young Nigerian girl, Adeife Adeniran, into reality. Through her book, Can You Imagine? and her foundation trust, we have collectively managed to raise sufficient funds and pledges during the recent state visit by President Jonathan for the construction of a school for visually impaired children in Nigeria. South Africa cannot stand alone. This African continent is our home. [Applause.]
Financial and technical support from the UN family in 2013-2014, will enable us to integrate disability-specific indicators into the country-wide planning, monitoring and evaluation system, to complete the legislative audit and to strengthen disability data management instruments in Statistics SA, so that together we can agree who constitutes disabled South Africans. We will also be able to begin with the drafting of the Disability Act, its finalisation and the updating of disability policy. As we move forward, the road to disability inclusion, mainstreaming and integration is a long and winding one. However, slowly but surely we have hope that we will get there together.
Nineteen years later, people with albinism continue to experience discrimination through the language we use for them. What do we call them? Izinkawu maswafi ... and all other derogatory names. Assistive devices remain a challenge, because a hat does not constitute an assistive device or sunscreen a cosmetic.
All of that is about to change. This is because, for the first time, we will be convening the first albinism conference in October, to look at all the realities for people with albinism. The reality is that sometimes they are not seen as disabled enough to access the benefits meant for people with disabilities, and that is about to change.
Despite chapter 1, section 6 of the South African Constitution that gives effect to the recognition of sign language as the first language of deaf people and that empowers the state to put relevant measures in place, we have thus far not done much. However, this is changing. This year, working hand-in-hand with the Department of Arts and Culture and the Pan SA Language Board, PanSALB, we will start the process of recognising sign language as the mother-tongue language for deaf people and as the 12th official language of South Africa. We will conclude this process very soon. [Applause.]
In conclusion, we have set the standards to which we can all rise, with the understanding that each finger affects the strength of the whole hand. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs G T TSEKE /AZM MNGUNI//TH / END OF TAKE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs G K TSEKE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, Members of Parliament, distinguished guests in the gallery, ladies and gentlemen, the attainment of democracy in 1994 laid a solid foundation for the creation of a society based on political equality, mutual respect and social inclusivity.
When President Jacob Zuma first announced the creation of the Ministry of Women, Children and People with Disabilities in May 2009, he emphasised that the objective was to work towards equity and access to development opportunities for the vulnerable groups in our society. If there were to be a single measure or civilising mission of the struggle of democracy, it would be how we treat the most vulnerable in our society.
This department pursues the mandate of advocating for the promotion and protection of the rights of women, children and people with disabilities. The mandate of this department is broad and it will therefore require staff that are competent and equal to the task and budget thereof.
With regard to the rights and responsibilities of children, there is a significant piece of legislation that has been passed to facilitate the improvement of the conditions of children. Under the ANC government, sexual offences have been made statutory offences and special provisions for children and persons with mental disabilities have been made through the Sexual Offences Act of 2007. The Act also provides for the development of a national sex offenders registry, which was set up in 2009.
The Children's Act also provides for full parental rights and responsibilities, whilst the Maintenance Act of 1998 compels a biological father to provide for his children financially, regardless of his marital status. But we continually see cases of fathers neglecting their children and fathers abusing their children, and also neglected children on each and every corner, especially in areas like Cape Town.
Setswana:
Maloko a a tlotlegang a Palamente, setšhaba sa rona se fetogile mo malatsing a. Re tlhoka tlhompho, lerato le maitseo. Re latlhile setso sa gore "ngwana wa moagisane ke ngwana wa gago". Bana ga ba sa na tlhompho go batsadi ba bona; ba ineetse mo diritibatsing le bojwala; le basetsana ba ima ba sa le bannye.
English:
We have also witnessed high levels of moral decay in our society: parents drinking alcohol with their own children, learners smoking cigarettes in full view of the public, and elderly people and women being targets of violent crime in our communities. Our children are our greatest treasure. They are our future. Those who abuse them tear at the fabric of our society, and this weakens our nation. I can count a number of issues that are affecting our society, but because of time, I chose these few. The biggest questions that need to be responded to are: What has gone wrong, and what can we do to turn the situation around for all of us to live a better life?
It is high time that we all come together, and put a lid on this deviant behaviour, which is eroding the moral fibre of our society. We need to go back to our roots and rebuild our nation. [Applause.] We need activists for this campaign of no violence against women and children, and to preach the values of ubuntu. Let us support the Stop Rape Campaign, be it in our constituencies, schools, playgrounds, social clubs, funerals. Let us spread the message. This is killing our nation. [Applause.]
Thuthuzela Care Centres are also in place to support victims of abuse. These centres provide a range of prevention and response services, a directory of victims' services, and victim-friendly facilities within police stations.
Another challenge that impacts negatively on children is that women are still underrepresented in the labour market. Furthermore, women earn 72% of men's income on average, and this really affects children as most families are headed by mothers. The interventions by government, however, recognise the need to promote representivity of women in strategic sectors of the economy to address these historical injustices, and the introduction of women empowerment and gender equality will assist in this regard.
The ANC government is seized with these challenges and continues to grapple with them in the context of the broader economic transformation programme of the ANC, as has been espoused in the resolutions of our national conferences. In spite of these challenges, the ANC government has worked with the people of this country to realise the following achievements, which continue to improve the lives of children: Statistics SA reveals that South Africa's performance in the area of maternal health continues to improve; the United Nations' development goals have already been met ...
Setswana:
Re bone bana kwa dikolong ba amogela dijo tsa mahala e bile mananeo a a fitlheletse bana ba ba kwa dikolong tse dikgolo, ka gonne malapa a le mantsi a aparetswe ke botlhokatiro le lehuma. Ke ka moo re le mokgatlho o o busang; wa batho pele; le o o ikanneng gore o tla fetola matshelo a Maaforikaborwa, o bone go le botlhokwa go tsweletsa mananeo a.
Gape, bana ba rona ba tsena sekolo mahala go tloga kwa sekolong se se potlana go fitlha kwa diyunibesithing.
English:
Hon member of Cope, I hope you are listening.
Setswana:
O ne o tla se bona kae seo kwa ntle ga puso ya temokerasi; e e senang kgethololo; e e tlisitseng diphetogo mo ngwaneng wa mmala wa sebilo? [Legofi.] Tseo ke ditiro tsa puso e e eteletsweng pele ke ANC.
Re bone kwa Mpumalanga Lefapha la Thuto ya Motheo le bula dikolo tsa bana ba ba golafetseng [special schools] tsa maemo a mantle ...
English:
... world-class facilities, that is the Pelonolo special school, the Mantjedi special school and the Loding Special School, which are all situated in the Dr J S Moroka Local Municipality. This resembles a nation at work.
We have also seen interventions in the sports and recreation sector, wherein the boy- and girl-child are given an opportunity to expose their talents. We have seen the SA Football Association, Safa, launching and supporting the under-12 and under-15 football league, wherein young boys and girls will identify their talents and be professional athletes, and also be taken off the streets.
There is a need to empower both the boy- and the girl-child, including those with disabilities. These initiatives include the growing-your-own-timber approach to projects like the Techno-Girl programme. This is an initiative piloted by the Department of Basic Education in partnership with the UN Children's Fund and Uweso Consulting. Its aim is to take young girls from disadvantaged backgrounds and help them pursue scarce careers most urgently required in South Africa. The programme focuses exclusively on careers in the field of science, technology, engineering and mathematics.
This programme entails recruiting more people from disadvantaged areas and public schools. We are placing them in a structured job-shadowing programme for three consecutive holidays annually, for a period of four years. We therefore recommend that this programme be expanded to the deep rural areas.
The department is signatory to various international conventions and protocol. In this regard, the department continues to meet its obligation of reporting to the various international forums on its progress, with its mandate of advocacy for the promotion and protection of the rights of children and people with disabilities. Participation in these strategic bilaterals and multilaterals is an expression of the seriousness with which the ANC government takes children's rights. This is a measure that opens up the country to account to the world on its policies and practices which affect the lives and livelihoods of children, including children with disabilities.
Some of the protocols South Africa has reported on include the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. These conventions are meant to induce a moral commitment from the country to adhere to four general principles, namely that all rights be available to all children and children with disabilities without discrimination of any kind; that the best interests of the child be a primary consideration; that every child has the right to life, survival and development; and that the child's view be considered and taken into account in all matters affecting him or her.
We therefore want to congratulate the department for work well done in making sure that these reports, which have been outstanding for years, are deposited with the United Nations Commission on Human Rights. We also want to thank the Speaker of the National Assembly, the hon Sisulu, for acknowledging the work done by the committee on the country report. Further, recommendations were sent to the leader of government business, the hon Motlanthe, for the attention of different departments. We will appreciate it if and we look forward to relevant Ministers giving us progress on the recommendations contained in the committee report. [Applause.]
In conclusion, let us join hands, young and old, black and white, to make South Africa safe for all who live in it. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs I C DITSHETELO / KC//A N N (ed) /END OF TAKE
Mrs G K TSEKE
Mrs I C DITSHETELO: Chairperson, let me just bow to show respect. The gross negligence in the execution of duties and the management of funds, as reported in the Fluxman report, clearly shows that the department has leadership weaknesses, politically and administratively. It is almost unbelievable that in its short existence it has accumulated such gross instances of maladministration and rot. It as if it was set up set up to fail.
High staff turnover always signals a lack of leadership. It is much worse when senior officials leave an organisation. Other than senior staff members that have resigned and those suspended, there is still a lingering and unsatisfied curiosity on the number of senior officials seeking transfers. It is frightening when the level of deceit is from the lowest positioned employees, such as a driver, to highest positioned employees, such as director-general or chief financial officer. With the new senior officials' appointments, we can only hope that the department will be strategically driven and that the turnaround strategy will be implemented, especially the recommendations by the Auditor-General on supply-chain management.
It is hoped that the strengthening of the internal audit unit will certainly aid the department with risk-management issues. It saddens me that this department, which many had viewed and accepted as a difference-maker to the issues of women, children and people with disabilities, is now riddled with gross corruption only a few years after its establishment. Such a disgrace indeed! These management issues are letting down the most vulnerable of our citizens when the department should be pioneering their citizens' causes.
It is obvious that poor planning and lack of visionary leadership have led to this crisis in less than five years. The department has had a strategic plan but already there is a turnaround strategy on the strategic plan and another one is under development. Even the revision of the vision statement appears to reflect a paper-pushing culture, in which people are more concerned about producing good-sounding documents than actually delivering on the mandate and making a difference to the lives of vulnerable citizens.
We do hope to see policy development on the rights of people with disabilities, and we hope to see extensive consultations on it. Similarly, we eagerly wait for the finalisation of women's empowerment and gender equality. The department needs to increase its visibility and play a crucial role in empowering the vulnerable sectors it represents. This is indeed to educate these sectors on their rights and how to access services, and this department must play its role.
Setswana:
Mme Tona, mosadi fa a inama o a be a ikantse motlokolo. Inama mma, o feele matlakala; ntlo ya gago e a nela. Ke wena fela yo o ka thibang wa bo wa aga gore bomme, bana le batho ba ba sa a itekanelang ba bone botoka. Re labile mo go wena; re na le wena e bile re tla go thusa, fela ke wena o gogang koloi e. A koloi e e tsamae, e tlotliwe, e ratiwe gape e gasagasiwe gotlhe ka boitumelo. Nna ke le mme wa motswana ka re: Ga go na se se ka thusang kgotsa go utlwisa botlhoko fa mme o eteletseng pele, go na le dipelaelo, dipuo le dingongorego tse di supang gore mme ke ene yo o tshwanetseng go goga le go re bontsha. [Nako e fedile] [Legofi.]
English:
The UCDP supports Vote No 8. [Applause.]
Mr R B BHOOLA
Mrs I C DITSHETELO
Mr R B BHOOLA: Hon Minister, never before have the issues of women, children and disabled people been in the frontline as they are in this democratic era. [Applause.] Women have been more assertive; they are coming up and taking on the issues. Government's intensified campaign of empowering people with disabilities and the fight against gender-based violence are having a great effect.
All governments departments today reporting on employment or contracts on their scorecards must show how targets are met with regard to disabled people. According to the United Nations, Africa will be leading the world in the number of disabled entrepreneurs, unlike in the past when they were sidelined and marginalised when it came to services and rights.
It's correct. We should be shocked about the levels of women and child abuse. We must therefore consistently make an effort to change the culture. The levels of rape and abuse cannot be ignored. They must be a concerning challenge for all of us.
The MF commends the work and consciousness of a whole range of people, and maybe more cases are coming to light because we are giving them attention. We have to be honest about the crisis and do something differently. This crisis is just not acceptable and it affects the entire character of our society. Something is wrong somewhere with the structure and fibre of our families. Are we beginning to restructure our families, or are they growing dysfunctional?
Hon Minister, women continue to march forward with courage, conviction and determination from the dark days of apartheid into the light of democracy. Today in our Parliament the representation of women is recognised worldwide and we congratulate the ruling party on setting this high standard. [Applause.] And next year, when the MF doubles its representation, we will also adhere to the 50:50 policy. [Applause.]
We need to ensure a series of workshops of public awareness on sexual abuse, particularly in rural areas and disadvantaged communities. To combat gender-based violence, the police and the justice system is not enough. Integration is key, and more funding must, undoubtedly, be directed to nongovernmental organisations, community-based organisations, and faith-based organisations.
Hon Minister, we laud your efforts as we are very mindful that when you are a mother, you are not really the only person in your thoughts. A mother always has to think twice: for herself and for her child. The MF supports the Budget Vote. Thank you. {Applause.]
Mr C D KEKANA / EKS/LIM CHECKED ENGL//(Lmm//Setsw) END OF TAKE
Mr R B BHOOLA
Mr C D KEKANA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, chair of the portfolio committee, distinguished guests, members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, let me start by saying that right from the committee's inception when it was formed in 2009, I was fortunate to be a member.
I must confess that in four years, this is the first time I've heard such fiery and inspiring speeches as I have today ... [Applause.] ... especially speeches that are not based on the paperwork we do in our offices but speeches that are very inspiring based on what is happening out there on the ground.
Let me say that we are actually told - and this is in addressing the issue - that our core function is to co-ordinate, evaluate and monitor what the department does as far as the rights of women, children and disabled people are concerned. The point is: I think we are somehow misfiring if we throw punches at the Minister. This is like our turning her into a punchbag. The truth is that when things are not happening ... I was there when we called for reports from different departments - Police, Health - all the departments that are in our Ministries. We asked them what they were doing about the rights of women, the rights of children in different ways and the rights of people with disabilities.
Some of them submitted reports and those reports were far from being satisfactory. That is something that must not be blamed on the Minister, but on those departments. Some of the departments hardly submitted reports. We went to the extent of discussing this with the Minister, and she took the matter up with the President so that they could raise the whole matter with Cabinet. Now I'm surprised. You remind me of what De Klerk when he said, "Don't play the man, play the ball." In other words, don't kick the man, kick the football if you want to play soccer.
I'm surprised that we are directing our attacks at the Minister when she has done the best she can ... [Applause.] ... including the maladministration and the report thereon. She mentioned right at the beginning that she appointed a commission of inquiry to investigate the corruption and maladministration that exist.
Setswana:
Ga ne mme a re mme inama, o se a iname, nna ga ke itse gore o batla a iname jang ka gore. [Setshego.]
English:
She has already taken corrective measures. The people who were involved, the high officials that were involved in corruption have already been fired. New people have been employed, and appropriate and corrective measures have been taken.
Setswana:
Ka nnete ga ke bone gore o tla inama jang ka gore janong go inama ga teng o iname ebile o se a baankantse se se tshwanetseng go baankangwa.
English:
I want to quickly talk about our international activities. We have been signatories to United Nations protocols. We have signed conventions, and this is because we are measuring ourselves and we are complying with what nations of the world are saying about the rights of women, children and people with disabilities.
This is very important. When the Minister spoke about women who are creative in the rural areas in manufacturing - selling things and making a livelihood for themselves without sitting back and crying - I am so inspired. She referred to the Department of Trade and Industry. I thought I heard Rob somewhere around. I would like to encourage him to give more support, because there is no way that we are going to solve the problem of poverty if we don't pull ourselves up by our bootsstraps - stand up for ourselves.
Setswana:
Ga bomme ba sa eme ba swara thipa ka bogaleng
English:
We will never solve the problem of poverty, because that is what is at the core of all these problems, including the violence against women.
Sesotho:
Ga ntate a sa sebetse
English:
When the husband is not employed, he has to go back home to children with empty stomachs and a mother who also has an empty stomach. He doesn't know how to feed his family for the evening because he is unemployed. When we have that, there will never be peace and stability in our society. When people take the initiative, something the Minister and the Deputy Minister referred to in their speeches today, and use their own means and ways to add value to their lives and have a livelihood, that is so inspiring. We don't depend on anybody to liberate us economically. Just like we were politically our own liberators, economically we are going to be our own liberators.
I want go give an example very quickly. It is said by experts that out of 10 fastest growing countries in the world, six of them are in Africa. I went to the library and checked. One of those countries is Nigeria. Nigeria is growing economically at a rate of 12% per year. Analysts say that one of the most important reasons it is growing so fast - apart from its oil wealth – is that Nigerians are entrepreneurs. Everybody there is selling something, trying to make a livelihood for him- or herself and not complaining about unemployment.
We can even see them here in South Africa, though at times they are a bit naughty here. [Laughter.] Nigeria is growing very fast, at 12%, because Nigerians are trying their best to add value to their lives. Everybody is entrepreneurial, everybody is acquiring skills and everybody is selling something to make their livelihoods. There is no such thing as sitting back and crying for leftovers or hand-outs. Everybody there is out fighting to make a living.
If that spirit grows in South Africa, as we have heard from the Minister, where women in the rural areas - women that are the backbone of our nation - start to stand up on their own two feet and don't beg for jobs from anybody but look around and see how they can make a livelihood, that spirit strengthens the philosophy. I think that is what is going to save our nation.
When I started and said that the speeches were very inspiring, it was because of this element of a nation, which is doing things for itself and not depending on other nations like America. America will never depend on South Africa, to be honest. If South Africans stand up on their own and do things for themselves, I think we will be on the right path towards growth, to addressing issues of poverty and to stabilising our own society.
This is where the Minister started, and what the Deputy Minister emphasised. That is why I thought, irrespective of the challenges in our Ministry, if the attitude is to address challenges and not just point out the failures and to find means and ways of addressing them, then I think that is something we should all be proud of.
The portfolio committee and all its members have worked very hard to address the issues of women, children and people with disabilities. As I have said, we have put the issues of women, children and people with disabilities high on the agenda in the National Development Plan. I therefore wish to support the Budget Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms E MORE / Kn / END OF TAKE
Mr C D KEKANA
Ms E MORE: Chairperson, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all the women that the Minister spoke of this morning, and to say, "Well done". Unfortunately, you are one in a million.
The National Development Plan clearly stipulates that a developmental state builds the capabilities of people to improve their own lives while intervening to protect the rights of the most vulnerable citizens, and this is the core role and responsibility of this department. Unfortunately, it has failed thus far to develop smart objectives linked to detailed targets and indicators, but high performance bonuses are awarded at the end of the year. For what? For failing to deliver? It's shocking!
The DA believes that the future strength of our country's economy lies within the South African people themselves. Hence, we have developed the 8% growth policy project and have implemented the youth wage subsidy.
Gender-based violence crisis and the rape pandemic have reached highly disastrous levels. The boy-child continues to suffer abuse and death as the cultural practice of ukuthwala claims more than 30 lives in one province in one month. The government should intervene urgently and appropriately in order to protect the children from the abuse of this practice.
In August 2012, a workshop was held in Kopanong and the department participated in the deliberations on this practice. Some of the recommendations were that the department should, firstly, develop an intersectoral strategy for the management of ukuthwala; secondly, develop a policy directive to facilitate the management of this practice at grass-roots level and disseminate it to all departments that have a role to play in the care and protection of children; and, lastly, develop a communications strategy on ukuthwala that includes the government's view of the practice, the legal position and the sanctions and this communications strategy should be widely circulated. However, nine months down the line, nothing has been done.
Almost 50% of social-contact crime cases reported are committed against women and children, yet the department continues to fail to plan, consolidate and co-ordinate working instruments.
It is worth noting that the DA-run Western Cape province has created 298 work opportunities for unemployed matriculants. Furthermore, this year the province will establish youth cafés where young people from across the board can meet, gather, socialise, learn and explore.
Earlier this year the committee did an oversight at the department's premises and was shocked to experience the triple challenge of poverty, employment – not unemployment, but employment – and inequality within the same building of this department.
There was severe poverty in most offices, as they lacked basic proper office furniture, such as filing cabinets. Files were lying on the floor in almost 98% of the offices. Frankly, how do we expect them to perform when they don't have the tools of the trade? Staff are working in their offices and using them as tearooms, because no tearooms have been provided. Where is batho pele here? Where is employee wellness in this department? Therefore, I say that being employed in this department is a challenge, as my colleague has already stated.
Going to the Minister's office was like moving to another planet, within the same building. There is a very posh reception area, which tells you more about the Minister's office which, unfortunately, we could not gain access to or see. Earlier this year it was revealed that the department had splashed out R2,1 million's worth of state funds to decorate the Minister's head office. Therefore the inequality was so evident and unbelievable during our oversight visit.
According to the five-year expenditure review of national departments, this department has been overspending on its budget since inception, mostly on travelling, venues and the compensation of employees. The trend of overspending in the administration programme and underspending on core mandates continues. The 66% underspending on the programme on the rights of people with disabilities is one example. There is overspending in the administration programme: more than a third of last year's budget was earmarked for salaries, with overspending of 112% on employee salaries because staff members were appointed above the designated notches. According to the Deputy Director-General of the National Treasury, Andrew Donaldson, this department is "clearly a department that has not yet got its financial management in order".
The rate of vacant and funded posts currently stand at 12% and the department should expedite the filling of these posts, including the employment of people with disabilities in its own department. This includes a CEO for the newly established National Council Against Gender-based Violence, which is a huge financial concern.
With the 2013-14 budget allocation for travel and subsistence standing at R16 million, surpassing the budget for children's rights and responsibilities which is R9,9 million, and the budget for the rights of people with disabilities which stands at R13,9 million, the department's priorities are clearly still a little bit out of line. The reduction in allocation to these programmes will result in a disjuncture between programme policies and implementation. This should be closely monitored.
Maladministration and corruption continue to thrive within the department. The Fluxmans report gave shocking findings: An allegation that one official was awarded R180 000 for working overtime; a nurse was appointed as a director over someone who was more qualified for the position; bursaries amounting to thousands of rand were awarded without any repayment agreement; and some of the Minister's friends were given preference over better qualified candidates for senior management positions. This is unethical and directly talks to the reasons why, year in and year out, this department has not moved an inch in achieving its goals. It is no wonder there is always a discrepancy between what the department says it has achieved and what the Auditor-General reports. There is a need to strengthen the monitoring and evaluation system through turnaround times, which should be established and adhered to.
The education system in our country is failing the children of South Africa. If a Grade 6 teacher fails the assessment test that he or she administers to a Grade 6 pupil, what about the learners with disabilities where we have about 985 educators teaching deaf learners basic South African sign language skills when they do not have the appropriate qualifications? And there are 781 educators who have a basic knowledge of Braille, but don't have qualifications.
The justice system, the health system and the housing department all continue to fail the South African child. It should also be noted that the child support grant is the smallest of all the social grants available to children. The South African child's life and future is in danger, let alone the South African child with disabilities and, even worse, the South African child with disabilities in a rural area.
This department has not finalised the African Union's African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, which was due in 2002. It will only be submitted now in July 2013, together with the State Party Report on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. The late submission of international and African conventions ... I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs M F TLAKE / H BAX / TAKE ENDS AT 12:21:25
Ms E MORE
Mrs M F TLAKE: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, the Chairperson of the Commission for Gender Equality and entourage, the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities, the women from the rural areas who are visiting Parliament today, ladies and gentlemen, the ANC's aspirations for an equal society are unparalleled in history. The Freedom Charter envisages a society in which everyone will live in security, peace and comfort.
In fact, the very founding principles of the ANC's struggle are entrenched in the national democratic revolution. This is a commitment to genuine equality of all people. Key to this is the elimination of all forms of discrimination among the country's citizens.
Before 1994, patriarchy was the order of the day and, since then, it is still a struggle. It is still practised, even though it is not as rife as it used to be. During the patriarchy era, women were oppressed. Women could not make decisions; decisions were made on their behalf by their husbands. Ours as women was to practise a submissive role, whereby if you were a submissive "makoti" [bride] or a submissive woman, you would be regarded as a respectful woman. This is not what the ANC believes in. It believes that everybody has the right to choose. As a result ... Yes, it believes that women have the right to choose, and stereotypical roles cannot be accepted.
Let me point out and say that this period we are embracing, the time for Budget Votes, is not the time to mourn, but the time to celebrate our Budget Vote 8: Women, Children and People with Disabilities. And this must be done by telling the world what our ANC government has done to empower the lives of women and promote gender equality.
I will start here in Parliament, though the chairperson and the Minister have already highlighted that the number of women in Cabinet is at its highest level. There is a high number of women Deputy Ministers and Ministers. Women are actually in positions in the Department of Defence and Military Veterans, the Department of International Relations and Co-operation - where we have the hon Maite Nkoana-Mashabane, Home Affairs - where we have the hon Naledi Pandor - and that we have the Nomaindiya Mfeketo as the Deputy Speaker. We also have the hon Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma who is the Chair of the African Union. I admire her vision in terms of the improvement and the changing of the Pan-African Parliament. When she does this, she says she is going to do it with the involvement of women.
The ANC has done so much for women. If we state facts and not propaganda, we know that women have houses - most of them live in houses – and women have electricity. We just go to the wall and press. In Sesotho we say ...
Sesotho:
. . .re penya tshitshidi ebe mollo o ba teng.
English:
Children go to school, and we have grants for both children and women. Really, the lives of women have changed. Even though there are still challenges, for example women who still go far away to fetch water, at least you can see that changes have been effected. This is not propaganda; this is fact.
I was watching television one day when I saw on e.tv news that open toilets still exist in the Western Cape. [Interjections.] I saw things like mobile toilets. I don't know what that was. What are they trying to they are trying ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] ... that there is still something like a mobile toilet. I don't know whether it is a mobile toilet or a safe toilet. I am saying now that we are going towards elections. You will see "mehlolo" [miracles] coming in different sizes. People will do things that we won't know where they come from. People will come with things that will shock the people.
Mr M WATERS: You are ignoring the Human Rights Commission and Credit Foundation.
Ms M F TLAKE: If I have to come to Lamoela from the DA, I want to say ...
Hon MEMBERS: Honourable!
Ms M F TLAKE: ... hon Lamoela, sorry.
The TEMPORARY HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): Hon members, please, I don't know who is debating now. Please, give her a chance. Thank you.
Ms M F TLAKE: It is Waters, Lamoela and More ... hon Waters, hon Lamoela, and hon More. [Interjections.] I want to say that behind every cloud there is a silver lining. As the ANC, that is what we believe in. In a dark tunnel, we believe there is going to be hope, and there is going to be light.
When you look at DA and the way they debate, whatever they touch and that comes from their mouths is darkness, darkness and more darkness. With them, there is no light. I am saying this because I want to believe that they were never involved in a struggle. [Interjections.] They don't know what is meant by struggle.
Sesotho:
Ha ba tsebe hore tshotleho ke. [They don't know what is meant by struggling].
English:
That is why they will always talk of darkness. Even though they see light, they will say it is not light but darkness, because they were never part of the struggle. They grew up eating cakes and listening to music. [Interjections.] That is why they are not aware of what the struggle means. [Applause.] To us, as the ANC light, no matter how small, means a lot to us.
I heard the hon Lamoela and others talk about the Fluxmans report, the corruption that was found in the department, human resources challenges, and the papers that were lying on the floor. It is so surprising that you never raised these things in the committee.
An HON MEMBER: Yes, we did.
Mrs M F TLAKE: You now come and raise them here. What makes me wonder ... You know that there is the Fluxmans report, and you have said that it was good of the Minister to institute the investigation, the Fluxmans report. If it was said that there was corruption happening in the department, it is good that the Minister instituted this investigation. You all know, hon members, that the Fluxmans report is with the Public Service Commission. We know that the Public Service Commission is the custodian of government business. So I don't know what it is that makes you come and lament here.
Mrs H LAMOELA: I am entitled to!
Ms M F TLAKE: I once said that this is a period to rejoice in our vote but not to lament. May I have water? I want to say, hon members, let us not use the Fluxmans report for political gain. We are going for politics and you will have to campaign, but let us not use the Fluxmans report to gain votes. I appeal to you: let us not put the cart before the horse. I heard the hon Lamoela saying that the ANC is going to allow this group of designated people to disappear. I want to tell you that will never happen under the ANC, but it will happen under the DA.
We cannot have such a good Constitution, we cannot have such a good Freedom Charter and then, at the end of the day, you create the propaganda that this designated group will disappear during our reign. It will never happen; never again. You are saying this because you never knew the struggle, as I have said, and you never marched in 1956. That is why you don't understand the pain of not taking care of a person who is ...
Hon MEMBERS: Cheers! Cheers!
Ms M F TLAKE: Cheers! [Laughter.] You never took part in the struggle when women were marching in 1956.
Hon Connie Diemu, you talk about many disabled children being denied their rights to attend schools. I would like to tell you, hon Connie Diemu, that the Department of Basic Education has made great strides in the schooling system, in inclusive education, by having full-service schools in the nine provinces. I would say to you: Stop lamenting. It is time for you to go and read the reports on basic education, and you will find the truth there.
The DA talks about the wage Bill and about the department taking long with implementation. I am saying that as soon as the wage Bill is out, the line departments will get their frameworks, indicators and guidelines. Do not put the cart before the horse, because you know that this is a process and we will get there; at least something is being done. With you, nothing is banned; women are just left in the veld.
When travelling, I hear you talking a lot and crying out that South Africa has gone with a large entourage, and you don't even know why that happened. Yes, we all acknowledge that there was a misnomer where overspending became the order of the day. You know with us, together, South Africa is not an island. As South Africans, we have international treaties and, as a result, we have to comply with those treaties. There is no way in which international things concerning women, children and people with disabilities can happen without South Africa being represented. The only thing is for us to look at the way we do things, things such as prioritisation and the issue of the number of people who go travelling. But we cannot really sit down and say that we are not going.
I am pleased to announce to this House that this year, South Africa was able to produce a first report on women issues. It has complied with one of the expectations of the international conventions that we have. So, for you it seems as if everything is wrong, and everything is blue. You don't see anything that shows life for us.
We have the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence. I don't know why you are crying, because you are forever saying that there is no co-ordination and that we are working in silos. Now that the Minister has tried to introduce a body that will promote co-ordination, you ask how it can start. Why don't you adopt the saying that we will cross the bridge when we get to it, because she made it clear to you that she has asked for donors and, as we speak, she has got donor assistance. So, I don't know with you. It is as if everything just has to be scratched, and you start nowhere. I don't think that is how life should be.
One other thing is that it seems as if you are forgetting that all the hardships and the inhibitors that you are referring to, are inherited from your legacy, which you are now supporting. This is the reason you become impatient, the apartheid legacy ...
Mr M WATERS: They're in your party!
Ms M F TLAKE: ... the National Party. You have inherited the apartheid legacy. [Interjections.] Things were just happening for you. Honey, sugar and diamonds were everywhere. That is why you don't have the patience that one day things will happen. Have patience, and things will happen.
Hon member Lamoela, I don't think it is parliamentary to say to me "nonsense". It is unparliamentary to say that it is "nonsense," and, Chair, I am giving this to you.
Mr M WATERS: You are speaking nonsense!
Ms M F TLAKE: You know, when the time for electioneering comes, you will see all these funny things, and you will hear all this propaganda. Even where you have to talk the truth, you will run away from it. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES /Mohau//Mia (Eng)/ END OF TAKE
Mrs M F TLAKE
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Chair, first of all I would like to advise the hon Lamoela to talk to her premier who has closed down the Office on the Status of Women, the OSW, the Office on the Rights of the Child, ORC, and Office on the Status of Disabled Persons, OSDP, because they do not care for the vulnerable people of South Africa in the DA. She is the only woman who has brains in the Western Cape. She is the only woman who can run a department – all the others are men. So, go and talk to your leader; go and talk to the DA. [Interjections.]
I am also saying the national council has already got an action plan ...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): Sorry, Minister. Hon Lamoela, we respected your time when you spoke. Just a minute. Let me finish.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: It's the truth! It's a bitter pill to swallow. You don't care for women and children and people with disabilities in the DA, period! [Interjections.] That is the truth! Take it!
I am also saying to the hon More: this lady, the first one, trains right now 150 women in the Eastern Cape in a rural area. She is going to move from that area to all over South Africa training women. How many jobs ...
IsiXhosa:
Musani ukuba nomona! Musani ukuba nomona! Umona phantsi! I-ANC iyasebenza kwaye yondla abantwana bethu.
English:
And I am just citing one of them. All of them are working. They are organising co-operatives. I say to the hon Diemu of Cope: they are organising their rural women. They are creating jobs. Don't come here with your misinformation.
Since we had that summit, we have implemented the resolutions of that summit. When it comes to water: we have delivered to 93% of the people of South Africa universal access to water. We have delivered to 83% of people universal access to electricity. In 1994, only 30% of South Africans had electricity – even in Soweto they had no electricity.
IsiXhosa:
Babebasa amalahle.
English:
Don't come with your stories.
IsiXhosa:
Kuba kaloku awumelanga mntu, ungakhethwanga mntu kwaye awuzange waya kwingqungquthela kuba kaloku awunazo neempawu zobunkokheli ungenaso nesimilo. Ubhalelwa ubuxoki bodwa ubuye uze kulahlekisa iPalamente. Animameli!
English:
A national plan of action has to be reviewed. We had the first one in 1996. We have reviewed it right now and we are submitting it to Cabinet.
Since when does the IFP care about women empowerment? You have ruled in KwaZulu-Natal, and we have not seen any women come up. We are saying that the ANC government is ruling this country. Therefore as a ruling party we have obligations, we have responsibilities, we have to go and report to the international community.
IsiXhosa:
Uphi uZanele Magwaza?
English:
Simply because she had the leadership, she was out of the kitchen. The IFP was too hot for her. She had to get out of the kitchen.
Mr M WATERS: Hon House Chair ...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): Hon Minister ...
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: I want to say to the ID you have nothing to celebrate, you have no history, you have no identity.
Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, could the Minister name all the female leaders of the ANC over the last 100 years?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: I am coming to that.
The investigation by Fluxmans was initiated by me. Fluxmans came with a report. I did not hide it; I gave it to you in the portfolio committee. The resolutions of the recommendations were implemented, hearings were held and people were dismissed. And we have one strategic plan and one turnaround strategy that we are implementing.
I want to take this opportunity to thank the Deputy Minister, and say that in South Africa today we have not just a Deputy Minister, we have Members of Parliament with disabilities. We have 16 Members of Parliament and 76 public representatives throughout the country with disabilities. We are number one in the world. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs N J Ngele): Hon Minister, your time has expired.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: I want to thank the UN, Absa, companies and the portfolio committee for all the support we have had. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 12:43.
Nb(xh)/ END OF TAKE
mal s7��=t�4 �3 14.15pt 42.5pt 70.85pt 99.2pt 127.55pt 155.9pt 184.25pt 212.6pt 240.95pt 269.3pt 297.65pt 326.0pt 354.35pt 382.7pt 411.0pt 439.35pt 467.7pt 496.05pt 524.4pt 552.75pt'>Mr S E KHOLWANE
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Chairperson, I once more thank you for the opportunity to respond.
Xitsonga:
Xosungula, ndzi rhandza ku vula leswaku loko vanhu va nga ri na mahlo yo vona, loko Xikwembu xi nga va nyikanga, a va swi koti ku vona. Mina ndzi nga ka ndzi nga swi koti va nyika mahlo.
Xavumbirhi, loko ndzi yima laha mahlweni na loko ndzi pfuka masiku hinkwawo ndzi ya eka Ndzawulo ya Vuhlanganisi, DOC, ku ya tirha, ndzi tirha ni ku simeka pholisi ya ANC. A ndzi tirhisi pholisi ya munhu un'wana. Xosungula, va hava pholisi. Hambiloko va nga swi rhandza ku ndzi lomba a va na yona. Ndzi ta tirhisa yihi ya vona?
Siswati:
Sihlalo wekomidi yesigungu, mhlon Kholwane, ngitsandza kusho loku: Ngiyabonga kakhulu kutsi sewucacise tindzaba letinyenti kakhulu lapha ngembili, ngobe labanye bantfu abafundzi. Kwesibili-ke kungenteka kutsi abafundzi nje ngulokutsi letinganekwane tibhalwa ngibo, ngako-ke ngeke batifundze ngobe batati kahle. Kube bebafundza ngabe sebafundzile kutsi letinchubomgomo tetfu titsini, kuze bati kutsi kahle kahle yini umsebenti Welitiko Letekutsintsana.
Lokunye nje, bebatakwati kutsi Litiko Letekutsintsana lisebenta kuphela inchubomgomo. Ngabe bayati kutsi Litiko Letekutsintsana lite budlelwane nemaprovinsi kanye nabomasipala. Ngabe sebayati kutsi Litiko Letekutsintsana linebasebenti labangema-366 kuphela, kantsi labasebenti basitwa nguletinhlangano letitimele letibika kulo Lelitiko Letekutsintsana. [Kuhlaba Lulwimi.] Ngiseta lapho; ungagijimi wena mfati waka-DA ngobe awukwati nekufundza.
English:
Chairperson, let me quickly help the DA member, hon Shinn. She quotes things that she didn't read correctly and she is even rushing now. She thinks that I don't read. I read, and I do research every day. I also do my work every day.
I'm coming to the digital migration, because you don't even understand what it is. You don't even know what digital is, and I want to tell you what it is. Let me help this member first.
Siswati:
Sihlalo lohlon, angibasite ngengete lapho ugcine khona.
English:
Let me read the report that you are quoting. Maybe you read Afrikaans and you can't read English. It's written in English and it says:
In comparison with our peers, we are well ahead in the political and regulatory environment, business and innovation environment, infrastructure and digital content and in business usage. However, we are about equal with our peers in economic impacts...
Siswati:
Ngako-ke, angati kutsi ukhuluma ngani!
English:
Let me go to the digital migration, because you don't understand what it is. When I stood here in front you earlier this morning, I explained to you where we are in terms of digital terrestrial television, DTT.
First, I said to you that we have now achieved 80% of the roll-out of the digital broadcasting signal.[Interjections.] Oh my God! Why don't you read or listen? I said here this morning that for digital migration to happen, you need two things, namely, the digital signal and the set-top boxes. I said to you in the morning that we were in the process of making sure that the manufacturing of the set-top boxes happens in this country.
Indeed, chairperson, you are right we respect the law as the Department of Communications and as members of the ANC. That is why we did not go and oppose the outcome of the court. Let me remind you what I said here this morning.
Siswati:
Futsi-ke kuncono ngikusho ngeSiswati loku ngobe lomfati lo akevisisi nekuvisisa, ngako ncono ngitjele bantfu bakitsi labatakuva kutsi ngitsini. Ekuseni ngitsite, sesitsetse sincumo njengelitiko sekutsi sitawugucula inchubomgomo yetfu khona sitekwati kusheshisa sente lomkhankhaso we-Dramatic Dream Team, DDT, ngobe ngeke sime la silitjatiswe bantfu labangafuni kusebenta. Ngishito njalo-ke, sihlalo.
English:
We are continuing with the implementation of the DTT.
Siswati:
Sihlalo ngeke ngibe ngisakhuluma lokunyenti ngobe besengishito kutsi sewungisitile watichaza kahle tonkhe tintfo. Lengifuna kukusho nje kutsi ngibonga kakhulu ekomidini ngelusito lesiniketa lona onkhe emalanga. Uyati kutsini, kunemuntfu losukuma la atesitjela ngaboma-Telkom langabati nekubati, ngitivela shangatsi ngingatsi kulomkhandlu awusukume batewubona ngobe ...
English:
Telkom has a very capable and able board. Do you want me to ask them to stand up? They are here, and they are doing their job as we speak now. Actually, they are leading us in the roll-out of broadband. I don't know what you are talking about. Please, you must read and listen when we speak.
Chairperson, there is a lot that you have said. You have covered me on everything. We can't fight people who don't see. We have told them and we have shown them what we have done. We can't fight people who can't hear. We have told them what we do. If they choose not to look or not to listen, there is nothing that we can do.
Let me say this to you, I want to thank the portfolio committee for their support. Chairperson, we want to make the following request. We will need money to roll out the DTT. The money will be for the DTT awareness, the SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC and the DOC. The SA Post Office will also need budget to make sure that they roll out those set-top boxes once we have manufactured them. We would also need the Universal Service and Access Agency of South Africa, Usaasa, to have a budget. What we are asking you from this podium is please, do support us so that we have that budget. I want to thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr J D Thibedi)
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr J D Thibedi): Hon members, earlier on the hon member raised the point of order against hon Schneemann alleging that hon Schneemann referred to another hon member as "bush". Now hon Schneemann is not here to confirm or deny the allegation. [Laughter.] But nevertheless, let me say the following.
All hon members in this House must address each other as hon members so as to preserve the decorum of this House. I think that this message will also be communicated to hon Schneemann, that all the members of this House must refer to each other as hon members.
Members are reminded that the Extended Public Committees on National Treasury and Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs will meet at 14h00 in the Old Assembly Chamber and E249 respectively. [Applause.]
The Committee rose at 12:36.
/Arnold\\\tfm///Sis / GC(Eng and Xits)/ END OF TAKE
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