Hansard: Debate on Vote 13: Statistics South Africa
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 15 May 2013
Summary
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 528
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2013,"Take 528 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
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WEDNESDAY, 15 MAY 2013
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTE-COMMITTE ROOM E249
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Members of the Extended Public Committee met in Committee Room E249 at 14:02.
Prof L B G Ndabandaba, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 528
Start of the Day
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 13 - Statistics South Africa:
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, from time to time I work with people with different skills. Those who are with us today are statisticians. I also work with the economists. Economists make assumptions and if there was a group of economists today they would say, assume that the House is full this afternoon. (Laughter.] But unfortunately the statisticians physically have to count, and it's a bit of a contradiction.
Last year when we participated in the Budget of Statistics SA we thanked everyone in the country for having participated in Census 2011 the previous October. At that point we were still waiting for the results of the Census. We released the Census 2011 results on 30 October 2012 in both the standard formats as well as in the ground-breaking Ipad tablet format that some members have obviously seen because the Statistician-General wouldn't want anybody to not have them.
Whilst the purpose of the debate here today is to discuss the Budget Vote 13 of Statistics SA, it is crucial to ensure that the discussions here, very importantly, have context. So, the appeal to Parliament in the course of this debate is to ask a series of questions about the resources available to Statistics SA and about the quality of these and other outputs being published.
For the outputs of Statistics SA to have relevance for development, Parliament needs to advance the discussion about the manner in which available statistics are being utilised for evidence-based policy-making.
I want to emphasise that the responsibility of Stats SA is solely to ensure that the necessary statistics are available, verifiable and that they meet internationally set standards. Statistics SA supported by the statistics council and the executive authority must ensure that the manner in which the data is presented is above reproach.
One of the significant breakthroughs from the publication of Census 2011 last year is the form and style of data availability. Last week, members of the Standing Committee on Finance were provided with a demonstration of the availability of detailed statistics at ward level using the My Ward, My Councillor section of the Statistics SA at tablet application.
We should point out that the availability of this huge wealth of data in this format is without precedent and places Statistics SA in a position where it is also globally without peer.
The same application is now being used for new releases and so the quarterly gross domestic products, GDP; the mortality and causes of death information; last week, for the very first time, the quarterly labour force survey; and yesterday the mid-year estimates of population were all released in this format.
We want to submit that in doing so, Statistics SA is discharging its obligation to ensure the timeous dissemination of statistics as prescribed in section 3 of the Statistics Act, Act 6 of 1999.
However, despite the ease of use and the level of detail availing all of this data in this contemporary format, it appears insufficient to spark curiosity or interest from legislators, policy-makers or the general public. It is this that Parliament must take a view of because once the data is available, it is no longer a Statistics SA's responsibility but it's the responsibility of all of us who care.
Before I get into the substance of this debate, it may be important for me to reiterate the explanation provided to the standing committee about the definition of employment used by the Quarterly Labour Force Survey, QLFS. It would appear that, despite our explanations at the meeting last week, there is still some misunderstanding about the information and figures that Statistics SA releases.
Statistics SA reinstated the expanded definition of unemployment when the decision was made to expand the labour force survey to a quarterly one in 2008. However, the headline figure that is released as the official figure is based on the International Labour Organisation definition where someone is considered unemployed if they meet the following criteria: firstly, without work, that is, were not in paid employment or self-employment as defined by the international definition of employment; secondly, seeking work, that is, have taken active steps in a specified recent period to seek paid employment or self-employment; and lastly, currently available for work.
This adherence to the International Labour Organisation, ILO, definition is to ensure that the current labour market situation is measured objectively and that the measurement can be used to assess South Africa in relation to other countries.
We need to bear in mind that this definition works well under circumstances where the working population engages in paid employment and where the channels for exchange of labour exist and are widely used.
However, the ILO recognises that the definition does not take into account instances where a large portion of the population is engaged in subsistence farming, the labour force is largely self-employed or the labour market is largely unorganised of limited scope. Statistics SA recognises that there could be impediments to searching for employment for some sections of the population.
The cost of looking for a job is often so exorbitant, relatively speaking, resulting in increasing numbers of discouraged job seekers. Thus, it reports on both the strict unemployment rate and the relaxed to expanded rate. If any member chooses to look at the information available either on the website or by using the application, they will have access to a complete breakdown of unemployment in terms of race, gender, geographical location, age group, industry, etc.
The notion of having more than one unemployment rate is not unique to South Africa. For example, the United States has six measures of unemployment with only two being official numbers. We need to recognise that the two unemployment rates in South Africa are not in conflict but rather, they provide indicators for different components of the economy.
While it may seem that I have digressed somewhat from the Budget Vote under discussion today, it is imperative that we understand the importance of maintaining public trust in the outputs of Statistics SA.
If this budget is to be approved by Parliament, we must address not only the issue of resources but also the quality of the outputs. I want to remind the House of the mandate of Statistics SA as outlined in the Statistics Act, specifically section 3(1) that states that:
The purpose of official statistics is to assist organs of state, businesses, other organisations or the public in-
planning; decision-making or other actions; monitoring or assessment of policies, decision-making or other actions.
The definitions used by Statistics SA therefore have wider implications for planning and assessing the state of our economy as a barometer within the country and internationally. While the Quotably Labour Force Survey measures unemployment using a quarterly household survey of 30 000 households, it's not the only measure. Statistics SA releases Quarterly Employment Statistics that measures the level of employment in all nonagricultural sectors.
It does so by undertaking quarterly surveys of about 20 208 enterprises that are registered for value added tax, VAT, and that are either public or private. In an ideal situation, the results of these two datasets should tend to be similar. That is why in the definitions or in the case of the Quotably Labour Force Survey, QLFS, self-definition becomes a factor. The strategic focus of Statistics SA is to ensure that the work of these two areas is more closely integrated in future to provide for an improved understanding of employment.
In the current financial year, there will be a continued focus on improving the output of a range of equally important datasets that concentrate on the changing demographic profile and health of the population, poverty levels and income and expenditure trends. These are managed through the Poverty and Inequality Statistics, Health and Vital Statistics and Demographic Analysis subprogrammes.
In addition to these regular series relating to social statistics, both government and the private sector rely on key economic data published by Statistcs SA.
During my speech last year I referred to the implementation of significant changes in economic statistics, notably in the form of a reweighted and rebased consumer price index, CPI. In line with its program of continuous quality improvement, the CPI was updated to reflect more accurately changes of prices that affect the lives of households
The refinement assists in ensuring that the SA Reserve Bank has accurate information at its disposal when it makes interest rate decisions. In addition, the producer price index, PPI, was completely overhauled to align it with international benchmarks.
The new suite of five PPI replaced the single index to allow analysts to provide a better understanding of the transmission of prices through the economy. The new 2012 base ensures that the PPI reflects the dynamics of the economy more accurately. In line with the announcement last year, Statistics SA implemented those changes three months ago, that is, in February 2013. In addition, other improvements on further releases such as improved seasonal adjustment techniques were implemented during the year. They will continue to monitor the impact of these changes to evaluate its efficacy.
For South African statistics to remain valid in a changing global context, the next challenge for economic statistics will depend on their ability to ensure that their classification systems remain relevant and current. In this regard, Statistics SA will continue to explore the implementation of two international standards during the course of the current financial year. The first is the 2008 system of national accounts, SNA. At present, South Africa's national accounts and its economic statistics are estimated according to the 1993 SNA, which still is large in the international framework.
The new SNA was developed by the International Monetary Fund, IMF, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, OECD, and the World Bank and was adopted by the United Nations Statistics Commission to ensure that economic statistics keep track of new economic phenomena that have become important in economies in the last 20 years. An example of this is the need to quantify the value of research and development and include it in estimates of value added in the economy.
The second set of international standards is called the International Standard Industrial Classification, Isic, used by statisticians to divide the economy into different industries such as agriculture, mining and transport according to an agreed standard. The Isic was updated to version four in order to identify and emphasise new aspects of economic activity that have become important, especially in the services sector.
Ideally, these two standards should be implemented simultaneously. Statistics SA is faced with the challenge to ensure that they continue to measure the dynamics of the economy accurately while ensuring that our ability to compare with our international counterparts in OECD, Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics and other trading partners does not become compromised.
The responsibility of ensuring that official statistics are published in terms of distinct standards extends beyond those statistics compiled by Statistics SA. Section 14 of the Statistics Act provides the organisation with the responsibility of co-ordinating statistics among all organs of state. This includes advising departments about improving the quality of statistics, enhancing the comparability of statistics and minimising any possible overlapping or duplication with the collection or publication of statistics.
In the past, I have raised concerns in this House about the effect of our poor educational outcomes. The reality is that a scarcity of Mathematics and science skills in this context must be understood in terms of its impact, not only on the human resource challenges faced by Statistics SA directly, but more significantly in terms of the impact on statistical collection and processing by other organs of state.
Ideally, the skills set would exist across departments with the system for managing the quality and standards being with Statistics SA. This unfortunate reality, however, does not absolve Statistics SA of its statutory responsibilities and in this regard, a more hands-on approach is often required. An example of such intervention is a census of schools in Limpopo and the Eastern Cape provinces being undertaken at the request of the Department of Basic Education and the National Treasury.
The objectives are to verify the total number of schools within these provinces, establish the number of school learners and educators per school, establish the education stream and subject offerings of educators and learners and to establish the qualifications of teachers in relation to the subjects that they are teaching.
It is important that we understand that while Statistics SA is responsible for statistical co-ordination, the capacity to compile data and use statistics to influence policy actually rests with, in this case, the provincial Departments of Education. The challenge of a shortage of relevant skills and the importance of statistical training cannot be emphasised enough.
The approach to the lack of statistical skills cannot simply be a resigned fatalistic one. In this regard, Statistics SA has established strategic partnerships with various universities including the University of Stellenbosch, University of Cape Town and the University of KwaZulu-Natal.
Internally, Statistics SA has adopted an approach to addressing the skills shortage by implementing a talent management model that includes recruiting twice as many interns as required. Their skills are developed and fostered within Statistics SA for a period of two years, including providing them with workplace experience by placing the interns with mentors and direct supervisors.
Statistics SA piloted the internship programme during the 2005-06 financial year when 15 graduates from different South African universities were recruited into the programme. In the current year, the programme has grown to 53 interns. This approach recognises that while the institution will ultimately not employ many of those being provided with these valuable skills, many will also be taken up by the private sector where the skills are in demand.
Statistics SA remains committed to building statistical skills throughout our country by developing a statistical curriculum that has been incorporated into the Mathematics curriculum at schools. In addition, they have implemented a programme that builds statistical capacity across government.
The value of developing skills in order for Statistics SA to meet its strategic mandate can only be measured in the quality of the datasets being published and the public trust placed in Statistics SA. It is precisely because of this focus on the issue of public trust and reliability of data that we need to raise the issue of the single number registration under the Business Register Reform process. This is an issue that has been raised both by the Standing Committee on Finance and the House over the past few years.
As mentioned on numerous occasions, the launch and management of such a system of registration requires co-ordination and correlation of three disparate systems of records managed by the SA Revenue Service, the Companies and Intellectual Properties Commission and Statistics SA respectively. Members of the House will also be aware that the CIPC has undergone several changes and challenges in recent times, including the implementation of new provisions of the Companies Act.
Notwithstanding these challenges, the first phase of the system of a single business register has been initiated with effect from 4 May this year. This phase deals with the registration of new businesses by the CIPC. The re-registration process for existing companies is expected to take place by October 2013 when companies will file details with both the SA Revenue Services, Sars, and the CIPC during the tax filing season.
The new forms have been formulated using Isic classification which will provide Statistics SA with the basis to begin to verify classification and disaggregate multiple classifications where it exists. As the verification process takes place, Statistics SA will establish feedback loops to test the veracity of the information being captured.
In addition, the organisation intends running an Isic survey to act as a further test of accuracy. Taking into account these requirements to verify the precision of the system and the levels of classification, Statistics SA has indicated that they will require a period of 12 months to test whether the data being collected is fit for statistical use in terms of the SA Statistical Quality Assessment Framework. A comprehensive business register is imperative for quality economic statistics as it forms the sampling frame for all economic surveys.
While the Statistics Act clearly designates Statistics SA and in particular, the Statistician-General as responsible for the collection, the production and dissemination of official and other statistics, it is important that we make the point about the necessity for other sources of information and the need for correlation.
In addition to the requirement that data produced by Statistics SA is accurate, verifiable and timeous, it is crucial that the data is internally verifiable as well. I have mentioned the correlation between the QLFS and the Quarterly Employment Statistics in this regard.
Equally, if there is no functioning Business Register or system of reporting, the task of sampling is more challenging and the Quarterly Employment Statistics, QES, will be constrained. When there are such conditions, it merely affords naysayers the opportunity to question the veracity of the data.
We must ask Parliament to join us in ensuring that the releases by Statistics SA become and remain the only reliable sources of official statistics in South Africa. It should not be the preferred but the only reasonable, trusted and verifiable statistics. It must enable every South African to say, the South Africa I know, the home I understand.
While South Africa is the home we have to understand, we are part of a wider community on the continent and globally. Statistics SA has established partnerships with statistics institutions that are part of the African Union Commission, the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa, the African Development Bank and Regional Economic Communities. Statistics SA plays a leading role in initiatives such as the Africa Symposia on Statistical Development, ASSD, the Statistics Commission for Africa, the African Statistics Committee and the Africa Group on Statistical Harmonisation.
One of the significant strides on the continent has been the successful mobilisation of all African countries to undertake population censuses in the 2010 Round of Population and Housing Censuses. We can only assess development and growth on the continent if we have evidence to measure changes. It is crucial that as a continent, we have appropriate and trustworthy statistics based on the same standards. So, building international partnerships becomes important to ensure that there is adherence to benchmarks and that skills are exchanged.
Finally, Chairperson, allow me to comment very briefly on the negative audit outcomes of the 2011-12 budget - the budget of the census year. As the members of this House are aware, the qualified audit was largely on the basis of accruals due to nonpayment of service providers that then flowed into the following year.
While I am fully cognisant of the impending Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, process, I raise this issue principally in the context of any future planning. It is important to understand the reality of the magnitude of the payments that were being processed and the limits of the government Information and Communications Technology, ICT, systems to manage such numbers. Government systems are not designed to cope with such large numbers of invoices and are not integrated to account for intergovernmental transactions.
We call on members of this House to discuss these challenges with a view to future similar large surveys. This call is made particularly in light of recent appeals to Statistics SA to conduct a census every five years as required by the Statistics Act.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Standing Committee on Finance, ably chaired by the hon Thabadiawa Mufamadi, all members of the committee for their keen engagement with the issues and for their unswerving support of the work of Statistics SA.
In addition, it is important that I take this opportunity to give a special thanks to the outgoing statistics council for the sterling work done of safeguarding the quality of our official statistics. [Applause.]
We need to recognise the significant role they played in steering Statistics SA through the immense task of conducting Census 2011 as well as the support they provided to address the challenges faced with the release and the verification of the data.
Against this backdrop, I place Budget Vote 13 - Statistics SA, before the House for consideration. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr T A MUFAMADI /Arnold / GC / END OF TAKE
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The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION (Mr T A Manuel)
Mr T A MUFAMADI: Hon Chairperson, Hon Minister, the story teller, the Statistician-General, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, Mr Ntate Mathole Motshega, the numbers are important, but it is not money today, the hon members, fellow South Africans, the noble duty of a population census is not just a collated pool of data on the demographic, social and economic aspects of a country's population. It is a statistical narrative, but for us, it is a story of our people, of our nation. It is a patriotic story of self-introspection, deep self-scrutiny and connection with who we are. It may not offer us what we need or tell us what we want to hear, but we must allow this story to be told, - the story to remind us of our past, reveal the present - so we can learn and make provision for tomorrow.
The key questions are: What do we do about who we are? That is what statistics census outcomes tell us. What do we do about our story? How do our actions contribute to the net result of who we are as a nation? What do we do to bring the best out of our story?
The story we are telling today is a story of bringing equality and quality life back to the historically marginalised black people in general and Africans, in particular. It is a consented effort by all South Africans to restore the quality of life through statistics, and in turn, regenerating life into statistics, and life into our story. This, compatriots, is a journey traversed over a period of 19 years by the Statistics Council, Statistics SA and the Statistician-General under the stewardship and guidance of the ANC-led government, without compromising its independence.
On 22 August 2011 President Jacob Zuma called on us to open our doors and our hearts to the thousands of enumerators who would be undertaking the census. When the President made this call he knew that he was addressing patriots and citizens who have contracted to work together with their government to address the challenges facing our own country. You did not fail the country and the President of the Republic. You obliged and for that, we wish to thank you most sincerely. [Applause.]
Today we can safely proclaim without fear of contradicting ourselves that the South Africa we live in is the country we know and the home we understand. Therefore, the Census 2011 outcomes are credible and reliable statistical information or data for planning, implementation, co-ordination, monitoring and evaluation of government policies at all levels of our departments, whether national, provincial or local, which is, in reality, the aim of census.
The success or failure of government interventions aimed at improving and changing the social and economic conditions of the existence of our people, the poor and unemployed, wherever they may reside and whatever challenges they face will be measured by the progress we make in addressing the levels of inequalities in income, based on race and gender, poverty, unemployment, particularly amongst the young people.
The 2011 Census outcomes provide us with accurate statistical information and data so that, as a nation, we are better informed and understand the challenges our country still faces. Not only do we need to know our numbers nationally but we need to know these at the level of every village, suburb, farm, ward, municipality and province.
The Chinese say you must measure it seven times before you cut the cloth. It is in knowing the size and magnitude of our problems that we are empowered to address them. If you know it, you can measure it. Together, in unity of purpose, we can appreciate the need to align all our efforts to support and realise the objectives of our National Development Plan.
On 22 August 2011, marking the 50th·day Census countdown, President Zuma said and I quote:
We need to know where the old and the young, the rich and the poor, the employed and the unemployed, the learners, the educated and the uneducated live, work and play. The information collected will help government to plan for the future. We must obtain answers to questions such as: What must the South Africa of tomorrow look like?
He further went on to say and I quote:
How many schools are we going to have to build to ensure quality education for all children? How many hospitals or clinics do we need for our sick and the infirm? How much food must we produce now and in the future to eradicate hunger?
Regarding our historical perspective, I want to say that we cannot fight for a better past, so we will lament on it no longer than we should. However, on an occasion like this, it is important to acknowledge where we come from and the progress we have made thus far.
Statistics in the past were used to advance or deny an individual's basic human entitlements such as education, health, safety, housing, economic participation and basic services such as water, electricity, sanitation. This list is endless.
The 1996 Census and its outcomes were really the beginning of reconstructing a statistical base for all South Africans by a democratic government. It was indeed a writing-back or response by the people of South Africa to reverse the socioeconomic conditions visited upon the majority of our people by colonial and apartheid rule, so that a correct perspective, not stunned by ineptitude or distracted by racial power could remain the basis upon which new priorities of a democratic government could be determined, and upon which the Reconstruction and Development Programme could be realised to save our fledgling new nation and democracy.
It was a consolidation and amalgamation of five different statistical administrations to harmonise the population census results of 1970, 1980, 1985 and 1991 from four Bantustans and one Republic of South Africa.
It is important to remind ourselves that not only did we inherit this fragmented and corrupted statistical data, but the method used were also different, thus variables used to construct the census outcome for 1970, 1980, 1985 to 1991 were racially based.
The enumeration of the above population census were based on four different measures ie for the black population only five variables were applied in terms of race, sex, age, marital status and probably employment and for white South Africans almost all the 20 variables were used to measure their livelihood.
Today, we can pride ourselves, without fighting for a better past, as a nation that we have a credible and independent statutory body, free of any political manipulation and interference with depth and resilience. [Applause.] This statutory body has managed to expand its social statistics about society to include other variables that were not there in terms of race. It uses over 20 variables as a measure for all races. It produces quarterly labour surveys which detail employment and employment figures per sector.
Chinua Achebe in his book titled, There was a Country, observed and I quote, "The denial of merit is a form of social injustice that can hurt not only the individual directly concerned, but the entire society."
And he further said in the same book and I quote, "Every generation must recognise and embrace the task it is peculiarly designed by history and providence to perform."
President Zuma and his administration have defined a peculiar task for our generation. The National Development Plan, NDP, serves as our common medium- to long-term vision around which common programmes of actions must ensue. In a sense, the plan enjoins all South Africans to act and unite in purpose in and within our diverse cultures, to fight the culture of poverty and inequalities, irrespective of our social standing or political affiliation.
The NDP provides a new platform and a moral obligation for the rich and powerful to forge alliances with the powerless and the most vulnerable to act in consort. It is here that I now wish to illustrate the achievements of Statistics SA under very difficult, complex and corrupted information from the past administration. These achievements were not without major historical disruptions, as can be said about the 1970 Census.
As we walk through our achievements, we can proudly report as follows.
On basic services, in 1996 housing provision was at 65% and by 2011, not the latest, we were at 77%.
In 1996, in terms of piped water, we were standing at 60,8% and today we are at 73%.
In 1996, in terms of electricity, we were standing at 58% and today we are at 84%. These are the statistics. If there is anyone who says that the ANC government has not moved forward, then that person must give me what he or she smokes, so that I can be in the same spirit.
In education, under the policies of the ANC, we have seen an adequate decrease in the proportion of the population with no formal education. In 1996, within two years of the ANC government, there were 4 million people of 20 years and older who had no schooling. In 2011 the ANC government had reduced the number to 2,6 million. This represents a significant shift from 19%. Now we know why some among us want to cast doubts on Statistics SA. We need to advance our people. We need to ensure that the South Africa that we know, the home we understand is capable of building a capable state through skills.
A steady downward trend is also noticeable in the number of informal dwellings and the use of the bucket system. Here I want to make an illustration in terms of the statistics.
The number of informal dwellings per province, expressed as a percentage of the total number of dwellings available are as follows: In 1996 Gauteng was at 23,4% and today it has reduced to 21,2%; in 1996 the Western Cape was at 16,7 and today it is at 18%. I am sure the majority of the people with this problem live in Nyanga and Gugulethu. These are Africans and people of African origin. It is the descendants of the forefathers and forbearers of our democracy and liberation.
From the figures cited above it is evident that South Africa is making a significant dent towards the realisation of the Millennium Development Goals which were adopted by the heads of state in 2000. In this regard,the use of statistics generated by Statistics SA is indispensable for the purposes of monitoring and measuring our progress.
Let me also reflect on the International best practice vis-à-vis Statistics SA. It is important to note the significant progress Statistics SA has made in playing its role in the continent. The integration of our economies, exchange of cultural knowledge, tourism and the movement of goods and services are all about people. We have to understand the national account of the countries we are trading with, as Africa is growing at 6% globally. It is important to contribute to the stabilisation of their economies. I must say that Statistics SA, on behalf of the people of South Africa, has done extremely well in the Democratic Republic of Congo national account, in Sudan and Angola.
Statistician-General, we want to say, keep up the good work in your team. This is a very good contribution in making sure that we, as South Africa, do not only lead in words, but we lead in practice in the continent.
It is my honour and privilege to support, on behalf of the ANC, Vote number 13, as presented by the Minister in the Presidency. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr T D HARRIS / Src / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
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Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 530
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Mr T A MUFAMADI
Mr T D HARRIS: House Chairperson, too often our society is personified by shocking violence. These days bring with them the real possibility of brutality on the platinum mines; of the bloodthirsty rape and murder of women; and of the massacre of our soldiers in other country's wars. This violence is measured in headlines and column inches; in a breakdown of trust between one another; and in a slow and steady rise in the risk investors associate with operating in our country.
But, as Bobby Kennedy, so eloquently, said: "... there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night."
In a speech, the day after the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr, he said:
This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colours. This is a slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter. This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.
This is the violence whose effects are measured by Statistics SA. The slow grind of poverty worsened year after year by the increase on the price of electricity or fuel or public transport, or the creeping desperation of a young South African unable to find her first job, because the only jobs available require work experience. This is why the work of Statistics SA is so critically important. While savage crime has the power, sometimes, to jolt us into action, soon after it occurs, we need to measure the violence of institutions, inaction and slow decay to make them real to South Africans.
So, Minister Manuel, the problem with the unemployment statistics is that broad unemployment, which includes those that have given up looking for work, is not sliced and diced by population group, sex, industry or age, as the narrow definition is, presumably because in the Labour Force Survey, it is not the official definition. That is the reform we are calling for. That will help to make the unemployment statistics real to our people. But that said, without the surveys, estimates and research of Statistics SA, it would be almost impossible to understand the real plight of our people, or to design policies that can start to turn the situation around.
House Chairperson, the Statistician-General is a colourful figure, who figuratively and sometimes literally in his famous yellow suit, brightens up meetings of the Standing Committee on Finance with his jokes and anecdotes. He is also unafraid to weigh into policy issues of national importance. We note and welcome his recent support for the Youth Wage Subsidy, which remains unimplemented three years after it was announced, when he said:
But I think if one looks at the net end to society, I suspect a with-youth-wage-subsidy-environment is a much better option for South Africa in the long term than a without-subsidy-environment.
You can speak to the Statistician-General if you have a problem with that. We also welcome his reported comments on the education system where he pointed out that the 30% pass mark was not helping the youth, and was among factors making some of them unattractive to prospective employers. There are too few voices from the top of government prepared to stand up to the reform-blockers; the stonewallers; and those who work in their own narrow interest against the wider interests of our children and unemployed youth. We salute the Statistician-General's courage and hope that this government is listening. But, the Statistician-General's most important job is to manage the work of Statistics SA, and there is no work done by Statistics SA that is more important than the census.
The data from last year's R3,4 billion census will affect every single item in the national, provincial and municipal budgets. It will define the allocations for departments and provinces, and influence the priorities of every sphere of government. It is important that the census results and processes are beyond reproach. But, unfortunately, there are serious questions about the job that has been done. Members must please note that it is not the DA that is raising these questions. They come from Statistics SA insiders; demographers who have worked with the institutions for 15 years; and senior staff with long records of contribution at the highest level.
When you see University of Cape Town, UCT, demographers, Professor Rob Dorrington and Associate Professor Tom Moultrie, who were retained by Statistics SA to review the census data, given 10 days to work on it when they were promised two months, it is a concerning sign. They identified a serious anomaly in the data where the birth rate, for no apparent reason, appears to have spiked 20% in the past decade. They also identified problems with the provincial population distribution last year, and their concerns appear to have been validated by the publication this week of the mid-year population estimates that, to quote the gentlemen concerned:
Portray a version of the age structure of the South African population that is quite different from that of the census. These two versions cannot both be correct.
These are serious allegations from credible insiders, and they could have real implications for spending on health and education. I ask the Minister to deal with these specifically in his reply. But, it was not only external consultants who raised serious questions about Census 2011. The Deputy Director-General of Statistics SA, Jairo Arrow, and the senior statistician, Marlize Pistorius, have now been sidelined by the institution, because they apparently would not support the Statistician-General's estimates of a lower undercount than the official figures; and because they would not reopen the Post Enumeration Survey at the request of the Statistician-General.
Statistics SA and the Statistics Council have rubbished these allegations in general, but they have never provided specific answers to the critical questions raised by these individuals who, given their long track records of service to the institution, have no obvious axe to grind or hidden agenda. I, again, ask the Minister to respond to these serious charges and explain why Statistics SA was in such a rush to publish the results only 12 months after the census was conducted, when most of our peers in the developing world, traditionally take 18 to 24 months after its census, to publish their findings. He should also deal with the general institutional decline at the institution reflected in the Auditor-General's 2012 report. The Minister covered the highlights of that, but I think that they reflect a deep deterioration in Statistics SA's audit outcomes, and were the basis of this year's qualified audit.
The Auditor-General found that 58 officials were supplying other parts of government without approval from the department. He identified that one in three invoices were not settled within 30 days, making them essentially illegal in terms of the Public Finance and Management Act, PFMA, and he counted a significant number of "no shows" for hotels and plane tickets. Minister, you will forgive us for finding it hard to believe that, if this government can pay out R15 million social grants per month, they lack the systems to pay census suppliers on time.
I think you will agree that this is an alarming state of events, and it is telling that the Statistician-General and his team did not provide much reassurance that they had a turnaround plan, when they appeared before our committee last week. They complained, instead, about the fact that their budget had declined, but it is difficult to find a basis for this decline. Budgets will naturally increase into a census year and drop off afterwards. Furthermore, in a committee meeting last year, the Minister asked the Statistician-General to justify the increases that were there and appearing in the budget. He was unable to do it, perhaps explaining why this year we see the increases decline through 2014-15 budgets.
But, one of the most alarming areas of nonperformance concerns a project that the Minister covered, that requires co-ordination between Statistics SA, SA Revenue Service, Sars, and the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission, CIPC, a single business register. This is a key intervention to cut red tape and make it cheaper and easier to register a business in our country. I call it an alarming failure because it highlights how many of the areas of weakness in individual departments and entities are often multiplied into abject failures by a government defined by a silo mentality, where officials and politicians often seem more interested in protecting their own turf than collaborating to introduce reforms.
Two years ago, the Minister told us this policy framework and draft legislation had been developed and it was on its way for Cabinet approval, for implementation in 2013. In 2013, we are advised that internal challenges at the CIPC have delayed the project, and up until today, we have had no idea when it will be implemented. Now that the Minister has tabled a revised timeframe, it is critical that he uses his cross-cutting influence in government to influence the CIPC, to ensure that they can end this indifference and inaction that is delaying the delivery of this key project.
Statistics SA has so much to work with, a R1,7 billion budget; a team that is regularly able to conduct credible surveys across this vast country; and an approach to technology and innovation that delivered the truly impressive Roambi Application, that allows South Africans to get to grip with the data that defines our country. But, it is now up to the leadership of Statistics SA to fix the internal problems that have resulted in the census making headlines for all the wrong reasons, and led to a qualified audit report. For this, and the task of co-ordinating projects of the single business register across government, the Minister will be held politically responsible. I ask him to deal with these serious issues in full.
If these things can be done, then Statistics SA can expose this violence of institutions, indifference, inaction and slow decay using credible data unmarred by scandal. That is the first step towards turning the tide against this violence that might not capture the headlines, but that is conducted daily against the people of this country ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF / KC//A N N(ed)/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 531
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,20 Jul 2013,"Take 531 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2013,"[Take-333333531] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
Mr T D HARRIS
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF: Hon Chairperson, Statistics always deal with the known past but become a very powerful tool to influence the future. People are normally mesmerised with the future, some will waste their money on fortune tellers, others flock to scientists to learn what the future will hold. The British Broadcasting Corporation, BBC, has a fantastic website where they predict what will happen in the next 100 years.
Lets first look how correctly they have forecasted 100 years ago of what will happen today and then we can judge their predictions of the next 100 years.
John Watson predicted 100 years ago that photographs will be telegraphed from any distance, you know the Multi media messaging, MMS, he predicted that 100 years ago. He predicted that Americans will be taller by two inches, exactly correct. He predicted that mobile phones will be part of our lives and so will television, he was correct. He predicted that we will have ready cooked meals, he was correct. He predicted that there will be very fast trains running all over Europe and he predicted that boats will fly, we've got the airbus. [Laughter.] So he was remarkably spot-on, this man, but was wrong on three counts. He predicted that the letter c, x and q will not be part of the alphabet anymore. He also predicted that there will be no more motor cars in big cities and no flies and no mosquitoes, he was wrong on that. But overall, we can take him seriously.
Now, lets see what they are predicting on how this global village will look over 100 years from now. They say we will farm oceans extensively, not only for fish. They say that we will be able to communicate through thought transmission, just by looking at each other. They say thanks to Deoxyribonucleic acid, DNA, and robotic engineering. We will have created credibly intelligent human beings, there is some good news for politicians, and they will easily grow to 130 and up to 150 years. We will control the weather. There will be one world currency. We will be wired to computers to make our brains work faster.
Nanorobots will flow around our bodies, fixing cells and we will be able to record our memory. California will lead up the break up of the United States of America and China will politically and culturally fragment as well. Space elevators will make space travel cheap and easy. Exciting? Let's wait and see, I don't think it is so exciting.
So we had Census 2011 to tell us about the past, but what must we do now and what must we do to save the future for a better South Africa. Will South Africa be a more equal society in future, in the next 100 years hopefully or sooner? That question will be answered if we are successful in implementing the National Development Plan, NDP, at all levels.
Clearly this Census has shown us how far we are from a desired South Africa. It is clear from the Census that our society is still broken around class and race lines and broken between the rich and the poor. According to the Statistician-General, and I quote him, "Class is emerging as a feature, but this is not dominant as yet, and let's hope that this feature will prosper in the next ten years to assist South Africa to grow a more common identity."
Statistics SA is probably by far the most sophisticated if you compare it with the rest of our continent, Africa. It is good for us out of a planning point of view and might give us that edge, because we have good statistics, but sometimes it's my feeling that we are not favourly projected when statistics are being compared to other countries. Are we really sometimes comparing apples with apples? Sometimes we are projected negatively just because we have the statistics available and our competitor's statistics are sometimes doubtful and they are not compared, which does not put South Africa always in the light that we want it to be.
Census provides useful data, but could be improved to have a shorter period between counts. The challenge is now to design cheaper and more effective ways to conduct this counts or censuses.
Census 2011 undercount was 14,6%. It is too high and it must be a concern especially if we weigh up the cost of a census and the fact that we haven't had a good census for many years. It will be a good exercise for Statistics SA to come up with a plan and to pilot it to make sure that we move to a single digit level for future counts.
Statistics SA must be commended with the introduction of their mobile application, My World My Councillor. This is opening a new world and becomes a powerful tool for politicians and local government and if used correctly, will impact on better service delivery.
The most concerning statistics of Census 2011 is that there are 14,5 million South Africans who are discouraged workseekers. In other words, 14,5 million have lost their connectivity with the economy and are giving up hope.
According to Professor Adam Saville, when a society believes their engagement with the economy will not change their life, you are in trouble. We have seen it in Egypt, Egypt had a fair economic growth, huge unemployment, huge high rate of disengagement of their citizens, and they went barely up. Let's hope that the National Development Plan will bring back hope to those 14,5 million South Africans.
If we fail them, we shall fail South Africa. The NDP is our vision for the next 20 years, let's hope it will be embraced by far more South Africans and that we will all realise that this is our opportunity to make a difference. The Census has shown the reality of this country, let's use this information to shape the future. [Applause.]
Me P E ADAMS Kn / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 532
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,20 Jul 2013,"Take 532 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF
Afrikaans:
Me P E ADAMS: Agb Voorsitter, agb Minister Manuel en ander kabinetslede hier teenwoordig, agb hoofseep van die meerderheidsparty – die ANC – agb lede van die parlement hier teenwoordig, gaste, statistikus-generaal en personeel, dames en here, kamerade, die ANC-geleide demokratiese regering wat in 1994 tot stand gekom het, het nuwe statistiese vereistes vir Suid-Afrika daargestel, soos alreeds deur die agb Mufamadi uiteen gesit is.
Beleidskeppers het statistiese data nodig om sosioekonomiese- en ontwikkelingstandaarde te ontwikkel en om suksesse en mislukkings met die implementering van nuwe programme en beleide te meet.
Statistiese inligting is toenemend aangewend om die toedeling van hulpbronne te beplan sodat diegene wat in Suid-Afrika voorheen nie daartoe toegang gehad het nie ook nou toegang kan hê. Die toename in die aanvraag na statistiese data het dus voortgevloei uit die ANC-geleide regering se verbintenis tot transformasie en beleidmaking wat op feitelike inligting gebaseer is. Belanghebbendes vereis deurlopend dat Statistiek Suid-Afrika nie net relevante en hoë gehalte data produseer nie, maar dat die organisasie 'n raamwerk ontwikkel waarvolgensd statistiese inligting wat deur ander navorsingsinstellings in die privaatsektor voorgebring word geëvalueer kan word.
In 2009 het Statistiek Suid-Afrika 'n interne en eksterne beraming onderneem om te bepaal of die stelsel gereed is om positief op die groeiende aanvraag na statistiese inligting uit die oord van die regering en ander belanghebbendes in die privaatsektor te reageer. Daar is bevind dat Statistiek Suid-Afrika konsekwent daarin geslaag het om statistiese produkte te lewer wat aan die internasionale standaarde, soos deur die Internasionale Monetêre Fonds, IMF, se spesiale dataverspreidingstandaard voldoen, gegee is.
Statistiek Suid-Afrika verbeter die gehalte en dekking van sy opnames en datareekse deurlopend ten einde te sorg dat dit relevant vir die behoeftes van verbruikers bly. Tesame hiermee moet alle openbare sektor instellings ook hulle eie kapasiteit verbeter om statistiese bruikbare administratiewe data voort te bring – 'n vereiste wat in die Wet op Statistiek van 1999 voorsien is. Dié wet het ook vir die koördineringsrol van die statistikus-generaal en die minister verantwoordelik vir statistiek voorsiening gemaak.
Die monitering en meting van die vordering in die nasionale ontwikkeling vereis statistiese data van deurlopende en betroubare gehalte. Dié strategiese skuif verwys dus ook na gapings in statistiese gehalte wat vereis dat standaarde vir alle staatsorgane in 'n gekoördineerde statistiese opset gestel word. Dit word bewerkstellig deur twee instrumente, naamlik statistiese standaarde en gesertifiseerde standaarde.
'n Verskeidenheid verbeterings is aan belangrike aanwysersreekse soos die verbruikersprysindeks en die kwartaallikse arbeidsmagopname aangebring. Die rigting wat deur Statistiek Suid-Afrika ingeslaan is, is bepaal deur die strategiese vereistes ten opsigte van die infrastruktuur wat vir die uitbreiding van statistiese produksie en organisasie nodig geword het. Die vereiste het die wyse betrek waarvolgens Statistiek Suid-Afrika se eie statistiekproduksie met dié van ander staatsorgane koördineer.
In ooreenstemming met die Nasionale Ontwikkelingsplan erken Statistiek SA dat stede 'n sleutelrol te speel het in die groei van die ekonomie, die skepping van werksgeleenthede, die vermindering van ongelykhede, die bevordering van sosiale samehorigheid en die kweking van integrasie. Die sensusdatastel is dus die mees omvattende bron vir die meting van lewensomstandighede, dienslewering en armoede. Die resultate is beskikbaar op stedelike wyksvlakke, die sogenaamde "My Ward, My Councellor", en kan dus op 'n uitgebreide grondslag deur munisipaliteite en metros vir besluitneming, beplanning en monitering gebruik word.
Goeie vordering is dan ook sedert 1994 gemaak met die verbetering van toegang tot basiese munisipale dienste vir die armes. lnformele nedersettings het belangrike sentra van ekonomiese aktiwiteite, besigheidsgeleenthede en ondernemingsontwikkeling geword. Daar het dus 'n toenemende aanvraag na data vir die ontwikkeling van doeltreffende planne en die verbetering van dienslewering by munisipaliteite ontstaan.
Die sentrale doel en missie van die ANC regering se ontwikkelingsagenda is om die land op 'n hoër en volhoubare baan van ekonomiese groei te plaas, waarby die skepping van menswaardige werksgeleenthede en gehalte onderwys- en opleidingsontwikkeling ingesluit is. In hierdie verband is Statistiek Suid-Afrika se strategiese beplanning gebaseer op die prioriteite wat in die mediumtermyn strategiese raamwerk gestel is, die wyse waarop nasionale en internasionale dinamika die bereiking van hierdie doelwitte mag beïnvloed en die meganismes wat vir die beplanning en evaluering van vordering van die prioriteite benodig word.
Die statistikus-generaal word in die Wet op Statistieke gemagtig om statistieke as amptelik te verklaar. In 'n eerste stap in die verbetering van die gehalte van die bestuurstelsel het Statistiek Suid-Afrika die Suid-Afrikaanse gehalte skattingsraamwerk in 2009 as 'n instrument aanvaar waarmee die gehalte van statistiese inligting in die Suid-Afrikaanse Nasionale Statistiekdiens geëvalueer kan word. Die uitkoms van so 'n waardasie bepaal of die gehalte van statistiese inligting voldoende is om dit as amptelik te klassifiseer, aldan nie.
Die vlak van statistiese geletterdheid en syferkennis in Suid-Afrika bly egter 'n uitdaging. Statistiek Suid-Afrika het dus 'n aantal strategiese inisiatiewe bykomend tot die normale menslike kapasiteit ontwikkelingsprogram aanvaar. Ek verwys hier na internskap programme, die ontwikkeling van diplomakursusse in amptelike statistieke, buitelandse studieprogramme, die skepping van vennootskappe met tersiêre instellings soos die universiteite van Stellenbosch, KwaZulu-Natal en Kaapstad en die inwerkingstelling van wiskunde vir statistiek by skole, om maar 'n paar te noem. Dié inisiatiewe sal gekoördineer word deur die Statistiese Opleidingsinstituut. Die verbetering van produktiwiteit en dienslewering sal dus in werking gestel word deur 'n geïntegreerde benadring tot opnames, doeltreffende bestuurondersteuning en ‑stelsels en 'n korporatiewe diens wat die behoeftes van die staat en alle belanghebbendes dien.
Ek sluit graag af met 'n aanhaling van die agb Trevor Manuel, minister in die presidensie, se stelling dat:
English:
... can confirm with confidence that Stats SA has graduated into the fact finder of the nation as prescribed in the Statistics Act. The organisation has built intellectual leadership that holds its own in the country and globally, and should, going forward, be in a position to implement the Statistics Act fully.
The organisation not only holds its own, but has become a hub of competence from which other agencies draw important lessons.
Afrikaans:
Statistiek Suid-Afrika het reeds getoon dat die statistieke wat hy voortbring betroubaar is. Die diverse profiel van die tegniese vaardighede tot sy beskikking sorg vir 'n waardevolle bydrae tot gehalte diens aan statistiekgebruikers op 'n deurlopende grondslag. Ons as Suid-Afrikaners en alle ander belanghebbendes het dus volle vetroue in die belangrike en reuse taak wat Statistiek Suid-Afrika verrig en die volgehoue gehalte van die statistiek wat die instelling voortbring.
Die ANC ondersteun begrotingspos 13. Ek dank u.
Mr N SINGH / NM / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 533
Ms P E ADAMS"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,29 May 2013,"Take 533 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2013,"[Take-333333533] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Members, I don't know if I am mistaken, hon Minister, but I do believe that it is legally imperative in some countries of the world that people have to comply with the request for providing statistical information, either as corporates or as individuals, and maybe that is something that we need to look at as we develop our Statistics Act.
It saddens me though, hon Chairperson, that this debate is not very well attended, maybe it is not a sexy debate if we were talking vital statistics we might have had more people attending this debate. I think a lot of hon members, not only hon Members of this House, but members of the public underestimate the importance of statistics and statistical information; not only in looking at how a country should perform as it moves forward but also businesses to a large extent use statistics: how many refrigerators are sold, how many beds are sold whether they should increase or lower production, etc.
It is a pity that not more people are here or even not many people take an interest in statistics. Having said that and for that reason, hon Chairperson, we as the IFP will fully support this Budget Vote. [Applause.] And that is because Statistics SA is an entity that we can be very proud of. It is ranked very high internationally. The hon chairperson of our committee spoke about the influence of Statistics SA in the African continent as well. I think all credit should go to the men in yellow coats and blue shoes, and I think he has put that away forever. Credit should also go to the wonderful team of statisticians that produced the results of Census 2011.
Obviously, there were some concerns about some of the statistics and findings that were released, but I think when you are looking at millions of people and trying to get information from all of them you are bound to have a margin of error. However, hon Koornhof did speak about a margin of error of about 12% or 14% and I think it's something that we can look at and see how we can reduce this margin of error to well below 10%.
Hon Chairperson, it is not in the production of statistics that we have a problem but in the interpretation of the statistics that are released. And to this end, I was a bit concerned last week when I read a statement by the hon Minister of Economic Development, who queried the unemployment figures that were released by Statistics SA, I think it was 140 000, and the Surveyor General had his interpretation of this figure of 140 000. But the Minister of Economic Development, at the World Economic Forum, indicated that there were 140 000 new people that came into the job market in 2013 and only 40 000 were placed. So, 100 000 were still without jobs.
I think it is important therefore, hon Chairperson, that we interpret the statistics correctly. It is to this end that I think we need to look at the rules of the game. And these rules of the game can only be contained in the Statistics Act, which is kind of outdated, 1999 is 13 or 14 years ago.
One needs to relook at the Statistics Act so that we can standardise the way, not only to interpret statistics but the way statistics are collected. Because when you look around there are other agencies who remain nameless for now that also release statistical information. When you compare that statistical information with what has been released by Statistics SA, you find that they are different and that is where arguments ensue. So I think, Minister, that is one of the things that you really need to look at.
The other area that we have to be looking at is the statement by the Acting Chairperson of the Financial and Fiscal Commission, Mr Bongani Khumalo. He remarked that to utilise the statistics that are produced once every 10 years in ensuring that service delivery takes place at local level, and that we focus in the right areas of delivery, is problematic. Whilst one may agree with him that 10 years is far too long and the Act talks about a five-year survey, I think the reality is that if we have to have a five-year survey it has to be matched with adequate human and financial resources. And it is us, hon chairperson, our committee that has to look at the resourcing of Statistics SA. If we want them to produce those tiniest statistics that can be utilised, then we have to make sure that more money is allocated to Statistics SA in carrying out its particular duties.
Just to quote the Acting Chairperson of the Financial and Fiscal Commission, he said: "the need to update data within formulas to keep pace with the rapidly changing delivery context, like urbanisation." He also said that community surveys need to be more regular, and one cannot but agree with him, but we have to look at the mechanisms.
Chairperson, we also have to look at human resource capacity within Statistics SA and the training and other opportunities that are given to young graduates that come out of universities.
I do understand that these interns were well paid when they were brought in to Statistics SA, something like R10 000 a month, which is a reasonable salary, but of late they are being paid something like R3 000 per month for the first two years. I don't think that this is satisfactory. Nobody with a degree would want to come into a job market and earn R3 000 a month. I may be incorrect in this regard but I think, hon Minister, this is something that ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr E M MTHETHWA / MALUTA \\\tfm/// END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 534
Mr N SINGH
Mr E M MTHETHWA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, chairperson of our Standing Committee on Finance, hon members, a lot has been covered in my speech because we know that, unanimously this is a very important debate not only for us as members in the House but for the country at large.
I want to remind this House that primarily, an increase in demand for data arises from the commitment of the ANC government to evidence-based policy-making. The establishment of the Ministries in the office of the President for both Performance, Monitoring and Evaluation and National Planning, signals the emphasis of the government to develop policies and programmes that are rooted in measuring the development outcomes and hence provide data and information that will be the foundation of knowledge.
The central objective and the mission of the ANC government's development agenda, outlined in the Medium Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, 2009-14 is to set up the country on a higher and sustainable trajectory of economic growth by the end of the mandate period of the current government in 2014. This is to be accompanied by an expanded and more diversified economic base with unemployment, poverty and income inequality being reduced.
IsiZulu:
Ngaphambi kokuthi kube khona konke okunye, uKhongolose wakubeka obala ukuthi imisebenzi kanye nezemfundo kumele kube sezingeni eliphezulu. Lezi yizinto uhulumeni kaKhongolose abambelele kakhulu kuzo, ikakhulukazi uma ubheka uhlelo lwakhe lwe-medium-term strategic framework, MTSF.
Uma izwe lithuthuka kubalulekile ukuthi abantu babe namalungelo okunikezwa ulwazi ukuze bazi ukuthi kwenzekani ezweni abakhe kulo. Abantu mabanikwe nezinqubomgomo ukuze bakwazi ukuthatha izinqumo ezibafanele uma befuna usungula amabhizinisi nalapho befuna ukubona ukuthi ababhizinisi abo anenqubekela phambili noma abuyela emuva. Konke lokhu kusukela emigomeni nezinqubomgomo zikaKhongolose.
English:
South Africa has since 1994 gradually ascended into a global international political economy and has become an influential player in many forums. This ascendancy happens in times that are characterised by disorder, upheaval and constant change. These characteristics have challenged statistical agencies, especially in developing countries, to place high on the agenda not only the provision of statistical information but to shed the understanding and knowledge of socioeconomic phenomenon.
IsiZulu:
Asikusho nje ukuthi le miphumela kazwelonke yonyaka wezi-2011 isisize kakhulu ekuthini zonke izakhamuzi zaseNingizimu Afrika zibe nolwazi ngezemisebenzi ngisho nasemazingeni aphansi, ikakhulukazi uma sikhuluma ngamawadi, kohulumeni basekhaya. Lokhu kubonakala ngokuthi sibe yingxenye yamazwe amakhulu, lapho sifike sixhumane, sidingide, siphinde sibe nethonya siphinde sinxenxe ukwesekwa khona. Ngikhuluma namazwe afana nawe-SADC, AU, Brics, G-20 kanye ne-WTO.
Uma ingekho imiphumela efana nale, kuye kube nzima ukuthi izwe likwazi ukuxoxisana namanye amazwe afana nalo. Ngakho-ke siyayibonga le miphumela siyacela futhi ukuthi siyihloniphe ngaso sonke isikhathi.
English:
Statistics are essential for economic planning, good governance, formulating, monitoring and evaluating policies and for decision-making as I have mentioned above. The demand for statistical data is increasing as policy-makers, civil society, business and citizens increasingly use statistics in strengthening the state's capacity to deliver government established systems, planning, monitoring and evaluation.
This has invariably triggered the need for a very deliberate system of evidence that is transparent, accountable, results-based and transformational. The critical ingredient in evidence-based decision-making is statistics system of which the official statistics system is core.
Stats SA adopted its strategic direction in 2010 to better respond to the information of the state in planning, monitoring, policy development and decision-making. The overarching goal is therefore to increase the supply of official statistics to inform evidence-based decisions by expanding and transforming the statistical information base. As such the Stats SA Strategic Plan 2010-11 to 2014-15 outlines the road map for establishing a sound statistics system for economic growth, development and transformation.
Official statistics are arranged and structured according to international frameworks and standards. It is important to adhere to international frameworks as they promote quality statistics. This quality is manifested in terms of data comparability, coherence and international best practices supported by international organisations which are critical role players in the global economy.
IsiZulu:
Lokhu-ke kuyasisiza kakhulu lapho sihwebelana namanye amazwe.
English:
When talking about development and transformation the measurement of economic growth development and transformation is required to adhere to international best practices, methodologies and recommendations including the requirement of the International Monitory Fund's Special Data Dissemination Standards. This requires that the principal focus should remain on the accurate measurement of the economy in terms of trends, levels and industry dynamics.
This objective will contribute in measuring the economy by providing information about the level of economic activities in relation to primary, secondary and tertiary sectors of the economy; financial information on government and private sector businesses and information on sustainable resource management and use.
Transforming economic production, relations and the broader system requires the use and application of systems of evidence by leadership, decision-making and statecraft instruments. Knowledge is essential for good decision-making, understanding and managing the spatial and temporal dynamics of economic, demographic, social, environmental and political development in the country. Such knowledge and understanding is possible where accurate time series statistical data and information exist within the system. The biggest component of the systems of evidence are the statistics systems and in the main, the official statistics systems.
IsiZulu:
Uma ubheka i-MTSF yaMongameli ikubeka ngokusobala ukuthi, kuyo yonke iminyango kusuka kwesezingeni eliphezulu kuhulumeni omkhulu kwehle njalo kuya emazingeni aphansi ukuthi, makube nokwabelana. Yonke imikhakha kahulumeni ibe nolwazi oluphelele nolufanayo. Lokho kusisiza ezintweni eziningi engizibale ngaphambilini ngoba ulwazi oluthunyelwa emazweni angaphandle kanye nolwazi olungaphakathi luba wulwazi olugcwele noluphelele.
English:
Coming to the economic and social infrastructure, the ANC government will continue with the infrastructure investment programme aimed at: expanding and improving socioeconomic infrastructure, increasing access, quality and reliability of public services and supporting the economic activities, and impacting on employment. The aim is to ensure sustained investment growth over the medium term to achieve the target of a fixed investment ratio above 25% of the GDP by 2014.
The ANC government in measuring the performance of national priorities has adopted a delivery approach that focuses on outcomes. From the developmental focus of the MTSF, the government has derived 12 clear, measurable outcomes together with enhanced planning, monitoring and evaluation capacity. All of these aim at giving impact on development and service delivery.
The ANC supports the Bill. [Applause.]
Mrs I C DITSHETELO /sam//LIM CHECKED ZLU// END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 535
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,06 Jun 2013,"Take 535 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
Mr E M MTHETHWA
Mrs I C DITSHETELO: Chairperson, the significance of this department in bettering people's lives cannot be overstated. We rely on the data that this department collects, and it is on the strength of such data that important decisions are made. It is worrying when we have experts and professionals who question the validity of the statistics available and even more worrying when the department cannot defend the data they have brought forth.
For instance, the remarkable drops in crime statistics are questionable, and questioning them is not necessarily about questioning the department's work ethic and the data collection, but as I said it is about knowing what informs the numbers, the evidence behind the numbers, so that we can continue doing what is right everywhere in South Africa.
When a police station seems to have a reduction in the number of crimes reported, we need to know what it is that they have done, as crime is a serious problem everywhere in this country. If there are no reasons advanced that support the changes in figures, we are then led into believing that the numbers are cooked and are not necessarily a true reflection of the status quo, and such a likelihood is a serious concern.
An all important task that was undertaken by the department is Census 2011. Of course, we all wish that now, government agencies and departments will plan better knowing the figures. It is disturbing, however, that there are reputable demographers that question the accuracy of the census and its data. Even more disturbing, is the stance that is seemingly taken by Statistics SA, that of just vouching for the accuracy of the data without addressing the apparent historical discrepancies and contradictions to the current data.
Misuse of statistics can produce subtle, but serious errors in description and interpretation, subtle in the sense that even experienced professionals make such errors and serious in the sense that they can lead to devastating decision-making errors. Social policy, medical practise and the reliability of structures, like bridges, all rely on the proper use of statistics. Even when stats is applied, the results can be difficult to interpret for those lacking expertise. The UCDP supports Budget Vote No 13. Thank you. [Applause.]
Dr Z LUYENGE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 535
Mrs I C DITSHETELO
IsiXhosa:
Gq Z LUYENGE: Sihlalo obekekileyo, mandikhahlele kuBaphathiswa abakhoyo apha namaSekela abo, usihlalo wekomiti yezeziMali, ndikhahlele nakuzo zonke izihandiba ezilapha, ngelithi ngqanga neentsiba zayo. Egameni lombutho wesizwe, ugalel'ebhayini, i-ANC, endinike uxanduva lokuba ndiphefumle ndithethe kanye ngomba ojongene nendima enokudlalwa lubalo nolwazi lwamanani abantu nokuba olu lwazi lungasenzela ntoni e-Afrika.
Olu lwazi ke ngundoqo ofunekayo xa umntu eza kukhokela isizwe. Ikwalulo nolukunika amandla nendlela etyenenezileyo yokwazi okufunekayo elizweni. Ezi nkcukacha-manani zifumaneka apha eMzantsi Afrika kweli ziko leenkcukacha-manani, ziza kunceda ilizwekazi lase-Afrika kuphuhliso lwayo. Umbutho wesizwe ke lo ungugalel'ebhayini ...
English:
... will always take responsibility of whatever the prophecies of doom are saying with regard to the relevance or doubting the integrity and quality of our statistics. We, as the ANC, want to remind all of you that Comrade Trevor Manuel who has consistently sought to bolster the generation of statistical data in economic and budgetary planning on the continent since 2006, when he was still the Minister of Finance, invited all heads of statistics offices on the continent and the newly appointed executive secretary of the economic commission for Africa to a meeting in Cape Town, in January 2006. The meeting was called subsequent to the tabling of a disturbing report from Yaoundé, in Cameroon, where statisticians were considering a resolution that declared the economic commission for Africa ineffective on matters of statistics.
The African symposia for statistical development was born in Cape Town and Minister Manuel took the resolutions for strengthening statistics to the Economic Commission for Africa, ECA, Ministers of Economic Planning and Finance in Ouagadougou, in Burkina Faso, in May 2006. Since then, the agenda for statistics on the continent has grown from strength to strength. Statistics SA plays a leading role in Africa in the development of statistics.
South Africa is recognised as playing a leading role in Africa in the development of statistical data and has chaired for a number of years the Africa Symposium on Statistical Development, ASSD, since its inception in 2006 till today. The statistic commission for Africa and partnership in statistics for development in the 21st century, also known as Paris 21, is a unique initiative that aims to promote the better use and production of statistics throughout the developing world. Since its establishment in 1999, Paris 21 has successfully developed a worldwide network of statisticians, policy makers, analysts and development practitioners committed to evidence-based decision-making.
Statistics SA has put enormous effort into enlisting the commitment of African countries to run their censuses in the 2010 round of population and housing census through the ASSD, specifically focusing on post-conflict countries.
Out of 54 African countries, a number of them has already undertaken the censuses, while the remaining have made a commitment together with their governments that they would run their censuses. During the 6th ASSD conference in Cape Town in 2012, the symposium changed its focus for the next five years to improving civil registration and vital statistics on the continent. Statistics SA has since adopted the new focus as a priority in its work programme.
In the development period from 2000 to 2009, Statistic SA played a leading role in statistical development nationally, regionally and internationally. It led a successful pilgrimage on the continent through the African Symposium for Statistical Development working closely with economic commission for Africa and the African Development Bank to revive statistical practise and use on the continent. Later, this initiative was joined by the African Union.
South Africa's participation in international statistical development peaked with the statistician-general chairing the United Nations Statistics Commission and several other global statistical initiatives and the hosting of the biannual International Statistics Institute gathering in Durban during 2009.
Official statistical information is an essential basis for mutual knowledge, comparison and trade among countries. It is for this reason that Statistic SA meets the international information requirements of bodies such as the International Monetary Fund and the International Labour Organisation. Statistics SA also has regular contact with other international statistical agencies to share professional expertise and experiences. This promotes the adoption of common concepts, standards, classifications and practices that support the international comparison of statistics.
Approximately five years ago, the United Nations agencies and other international partners came to promote and support implementation of the 2010 round-up of population and housing censuses in African countries. They advocated for all African countries to participate in the 2010 round so that their populations could be enumerated. In the 2000 census round, about a third of African countries did not conduct a census and as a result, about half of the African population was not enumerated during that census round.
As a result of this, African countries have committed themselves to improve their participation in the current 2010 census round. To translate this commitment into effect, countries organized a series of country-led African Symposium on Statistical Development whose main theme was the population census. So far from 2006, six symposia have been organised successively in South Africa, Rwanda, Angola, Ghana, Senegal and Egypt.
This effort has resulted in improved awareness, especially at political level, on the need to undertake a census. To date 32 countries have already completed the 2010 round of censuses and 21 have planned to conduct the census before 2015. To achieve the above, the Economic Commission for Africa, in collaboration with the African Development Bank, the African Union and with strong support from Statistics SA, has assisted countries to build capacity in various areas of census taking. This has taken the form of workshops and expert group meetings on census planning and enumeration; census evaluation and postenumeration survey. Training and technical assistance were also provided to a number of countries on the use of digital techniques for census cartography and data processing.
Whilst the challenge of conducting censuses in Africa is being resolved, the use of census data remains at an unacceptable low level. I want to justify that in South Africa we are responsible enough to say whatever challenges may arise, we will be responsible and committed and remain in charge to address them. This can be justified biblically and intellectually. Rudyard Kipling, the poet, in his poem "If" says: "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you; ... you will be a Man, my son!"[Applause.]
This happens for a variety of reasons, including census data, availability and accessibility. The African census analysis project, which was launched in Pretoria, has successfully retrieved and archived several African censuses. This census data is now available for research. Building on this initiative, the Africa demography series has been initiated with contributions from African scholars, intellectuals and practitioners.
The African Charter on Statistics is an essential tool for statistical development in Africa. It was adopted during the second ordinary session of heads of states of the African Union held in Addis Ababa, on 4 February, 2009.
I now turn to the progress report on the implementation of the African Charter on Statistics and the strategy for the harmonisation of statistics in Africa, of December 2012. After the adoption of the African Charter on Statistics and the Strategy for the harmonisation of statistics in Africa as reference frameworks to guide the production of quality, and comparable and timely statistical data in Africa, the three Pan-African institutions, namely the African Union Commission, the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa and the African Development Bank, recognised the need to develop action plans for the effective implementation of these two initiatives.
The African Union Commission, with the support of a consultant and Statistics SA, has developed guidelines and a plan for the implementation of the Charter's principles. The guidelines were reviewed by directors-general of the national statistics offices from selected countries at the meeting held in Abidjan, Cote D'Ivoire from December 5 to 9, in the year 2011.
In the light of the impact of the recent world financial and food crises on the living conditions of households in Africa, greater knowledge of the informal economy is essential for developing relevant growth and poverty reduction strategies in African countries. At the continental level, initiatives came from economic and statistical observatory of Sub-Saharan Africa, which has made significant progress in implementing the 123 Surveys. With those words, the ANC supports this initiative by Statistics SA.
IsiXhosa:
Amandla! [Kwaphela ixesha.][Kwaqhwatywa.]
Mr D C ROSS / Nb/Checked by Nobuntu/ END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 536
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,27 May 2013,"Take 536 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
Dr Z LUYENGE
Mr D C ROSS: Chairperson, the Governor of the Reserve Bank, Gill Marcus, warned the committee in April this year that South Africa will be confronted with a toxic mix of low growth and high inflation. She indicated that our economy was not in a good place and that we require certain interventions to address our stagflation problems. The challenge for us today, and also during the year, will be how to improve growth and to contain inflation in a better way.
In this regard, statistics fulfil – and we all know this in the committee – a vital role in decision-making and should be used as a base for planning and policy development, specifically when it comes to these challenges of low growth and high inflation. Economic statistics, I believe, such as the consumer price index, CPI, and producer price index, PPI- and the Minister has alluded to that- provide the evidence we use to monitor progress and evaluate fiscal performance. The unfortunate reality is, however, that South Africans continuously face the burden of increasing costs. The increases in electricity, fuel, food and public transport have all made the cost of living more expensive. Many more increases, unfortunately, are on the way. E-tolling, increases in rates and taxes in municipalities and increases in the cost of water are likely to hit in the near future. The reality is that the poorest of the poor are the ones hardest hit by these factors.
How do we address this – this slow grind of poverty that my colleague Tim Harris alluded to? How do we address this, and how do we bring hope to the poorest of the poor in this country? The National Development Plan, NDP, gives us a way forward. It envisages that South Africa can eliminate poverty and reduce inequality by 2030. The recent economic downturn in the South African economy triggers the demand for quality statistical information, if the 2030 vision is to be realised. Then we can look at the work programme of our committee. In this regard, I would indicate that Statistics SA in the 2013-14 financial year focuses on the implementation of the NDP strategy and commits to the publishing of monthly, quarterly and annual industry statistics. This information is vital in the growth policy implementation, and we are very grateful for this. I was therefore encouraged by the proposed implementation of the strategy by Statistics SA in improving statistical themes for statistical production in the areas of economic growth, prices and sustainable resource management. It will be most helpful as a base for our planning in the future.
The NDP further envisages the economy almost trebling in size by 2030 – and I know the hon Manuel has worked very hard in this regard – a target that requires an annual economic growth rate of 6,2%. The unfortunate reality is once again, however, that South Africa has an economic growth rate of only 2,5%. It is a steep climb for us and there are steep goals to be achieved. South Africa created about 1,1 million jobs between 2004 and 2008. South Africa now faces high unemployment levels, as figures released by Statistics SA last week show that unemployment increased by 100 000 between the fourth quarter of last year and the first quarter of 2013.
Since 2008, 400 000 jobs have been lost. Indeed, as many analysts and experts indicate, it is a disaster. If somebody saw The Justice Factor on Sunday, that was also the word Justice Malala used. Statistical information with regards to unemployment indicates now that two out of every three persons under the age of 24 are unable to find and sustain a job. It is indeed scary stuff. Vital information in Statistics SA's latest report measures unemployment at four to six million persons. It depends on what definition you look at. The value of these statistics indeed fulfils a vital role in decision-making, and we can use that as a base for planning.
Chairperson, the next issue that I would just like to touch on is with regards to the release of the 2011 Census results. May I say that the DA was extremely concerned about Statistics SA's decision to grant government early, exclusive access to its findings. It effectively stonewalled the media, opposition and civil society from informed comment, specifically noting that this was just before consideration of the Medium Term Budget Policy Statement, as we all know. The upshot of this move was that government would have had the opportunity to review the 2011 Census results whilst all other interested parties were left out of the loop. Whilst we think it sensible for the census results to be released early – and we were grateful that the results were released early – given the importance of evidence-based decision-making, we were of the belief that the findings should be made available to all South Africans.
I am therefore today encouraged, however, that our committee took a decision in terms of our recommendations that a policy should be developed with regards to the release of the census results. We champion this as a victory for transparency to the South African public. We would also like, as the DA, to thank the Minister for meeting with the party to discuss our concerns before the release of the results.
The DA remains, however, also very concerned about the qualified audit received by Statistics SA. It is indeed a huge setback for building credibility for Statistics SA. In stark contrast to the previous five years, the financial management and organisational structure did not perform as well as we thought it should have been performing in this financial year. I think material losses amounting to R34,4 million were written off as irrecoverable, and that, we believe, is unacceptable.
We learnt with shock that late allocations from Treasury in terms of budgeted amounts for the census – very much needed to conduct a good census – to the extent of R200 million were experienced. The total budgeted amount for the census was R3,4 billion and allocations made were R3,2 billion. It was a last minute request – that was our information – for R200 million, and a roll-over allocation of R286 million was then made to see that we effectively run the census.
We would like to wish the department well in the next census, and we hope that we can rectify these mistakes. We trust that Statistics SA will learn from its past mistakes and not repeat the issues with regards to the qualified report. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D D VAN ROOYEN /Mia / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 537
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,03 Jun 2013,"Take 537 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
"Committee Room E249 Main", Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2013,"[Take-333333537] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
Mr D C ROSS
Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, the airbus is taking off. Hon Minister and Deputy Ministers present here, my colleagues, Members of Parliament, distinguished guests and team Statistics SA, as the ANC we support Budget Vote No 13.
We support it because first and foremost, Statistics SA, from its inception hitherto, has distinguished itself as a success story of note. It has evolved into an institution capable to generate a wide range of economic, social and political service information at all levels. Intriguing enough, as shown in this Budget Vote is its ability to produce such statistical information at ward level.
We agreed, as the ANC, that this Vote deserves all our support including our maverick counterparts, who with their recent actions and utterances have shown keen and deep-seated appreciation of the ANC policies. But the most unfortunate aspect of their approach is that their narrative of the ANC as a rudderless movement militates against an open endorsement of the ANC's policies. That's a contradiction.
This Budget Vote deserves our support because it continues to enable us to know how we are performing, as a country, in ensuring that all our people have access to essential services like water, electricity, sanitation, jobs, housing, public transport, adequate nutrition, education, social protection, quality health care, recreation and a clean environment.
Believing that health is not only a medical issue, this Budget Vote provides for statistical infrastructure to support the Department of Health to undertake a demographic and health survey. Production of such statistics is a prerequisite for any successful health system. We urge all to throw their unconditional support behind this Budget Vote because it forms the basis for a progressive and sustainable health system.
How can we not support this Budget Vote if inter alia it is meant to ensure that the following take place? Continuous production of annual statistical information on education, through the general household survey. Unless we are reminded that education is a national priority. Through its annual victims of crime survey, Statistics SA plays a critical role in providing information needed for crime combating decision-making process. As the ANC, we believe that personal safety is a human right, a necessary condition for human development, improved quality of life and enhanced productivity, hence as a caring organisation, we find it easy to concur with this Budget Vote.
We are further delighted; as the ANC; by the fact that this Budget Vote provides for the rebasing of the consumer price and producer price indices. We might be reminded here that this was recommended in our last committee report. We are convinced that this will ensure provision of a more accurate picture about prices.
As a matter of concern, we have noted that statistical co-ordination is still a challenge. Leading the development and co-ordination of statistical production, is Statistics SA under the leadership of the Statistician-General. As cited by the Minister, the legal mandate is derived from the Statistics Act.
It is important to remember that we have a system of national statistics with an array of role-players. Key policy issues are wider than the remit of any single government department and must be tackled on a government-wide basis.
These cross-cutting issues clearly indicate a need for a set of national statistics within a co-ordination framework where statistical units, data items, classifications and standards are harmonised across government. In terms of the Act, co-ordination of production involves aligning the production of statistics by other organs of state to user needs to ensure relevance and avoiding duplication.
It is also important to know that the government's tight fiscal position, as a result of the current global economic outlook, places major constraints on the enhanced performance of Statistics SA over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, hon Ross. Failure to provide funding to build statistical capacity across the organs of state will definitely perpetuate the daunting challenge of the generation of quality statistics where it matters most, at local and departmental level.
Hence our call as a committee for development and implementation of innovative ways in which more can be done with less during this challenging fiscal cycle. Maybe, hon Harris, provision for violence-based statistics will be realised. But remember, as a committee we place emphasis on prioritisation of updating existing programmes because it's like having an apparatus that you are unable to maintain if you are unable to update your current programme.
Notwithstanding the Minister acknowledgement of the negative audit outcome, we reiterate our call to Statistics SA to make a submission of their action plan, detailing how they intend to deal with the Auditor-General's concerns. We believe that this will help us a great deal in executing our oversight role. Unlike one committee rebel who is hellbent on projecting Statistics SA negatively, we commend the Council for addressing all claims made by the so-called senior staff member. These, I must indicate to this House as reported to the committee, were dealt with in a transparent and acceptable manner. I wonder why the hype?
Accompanying this Budget Vote is a work programme which accurately enumerates the performance targets which Statistics SA will attempt to achieve, given allocated resources. Taking a closer look at this programme makes an interesting revelation. How can we not support this budget Vote if the colours of our glorious organisation, the ANC, are visibly reflected in its work programme? Black, green and gold permeate the work programme. A programme that tells how Statistics SA intends improving the lives of South African people, that represents black. It tells how Statistics SA, through its agricultural statistics, will ensure that there is sustainable usage of land. The land represents the colour green. Through its System of Environmental-Economic Accounts, SEEA, it tells how South Africa must find a way of using its rich endowment of natural resources; that represents the colour gold. Black, green and gold permeates this work programme. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
This is a fact; listen to this. It is unlike propaganda peddled to the vulnerable unsuspecting young people by a party whose essence and foundation is a blue lie. Unfortunately all my efforts to find other colours were in vain, hence our call on others to join us in supporting this noble course. Refrain from being bad ambassadors of our beloved country and its service delivery instruments. This will stop negative projection that is hitting hard on our economy. [Interjections] [Laughter.] Feel free, you are all welcome. The airbus has landed. Thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION / EKS/LIM CHECKED// END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – COMMITTEE ROOM E249
Wednesday, 15 May 2013 Take: 538
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,20 Jul 2013,"Take 538 [Committee Room E249 Main].doc"
"Committee Room E249 Main",Unrevised Hansard,15 May 2013,"[Take-333333538] [Committee Room E249 Main][NW-2-49][ct].doc"
Mr D D VAN ROOYEN
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: Chairperson, I thank the House and all the hon members who spoke this afternoon, one of my dear and now late Comrade Steve Tshwete had a wonderful phrase, he used to say, "You shouldn't praise a fish for swimming because it would die if it stopped swimming." I listened very carefully to the grudging support from some quarters of this House.
I want to say to the Hon Harris and Ross that if the only things you can come up with are reruns of what you have raised before then we are not in such a bad place, are we? We have heard all of this before. It is a rerun; it is like the SABC which still broadcasts the Cosby Show. It is exactly the same.
Let me deal with some of the issues they have raised. I think that in an area such as statistics and in the particular area that involves actuaries, there are always differences of opinion. It is an established fact and you do not have to look at the work done on census. Go and look at the modelling done for the Actuarial Society. Some of the individuals have actually been involved in differences of opinion even there. When this happens it does not come as a surprise, I think that what we have opted to do is not to have a rouse with the distinguished professors in public. There have been private discussions to persuade them and those discussions involve a number of other people of the same craft who could look at numbers, methodology and persuade each other.
If you asked Statistics SA and have stand up rouse with the people who have been involved with the organisation in the council and so on over a long period, it would not be the style that you would choose to operate. In respect of the issues of Dr Arrow and Mr Pistorious, I want to indicate that there is an incomplete disciplinary hearing and it would be incorrect of me to comment on those matters until the disciplinary hearing has been cleared. I think that in defence to somebody who is still a staff member in the case of Mr Pistorious, I ask Parliament to allow those processes to run their course. It would be wrong to do it in any other way.
In respect of the interns, the pay scales of interns are administered by the Department of Public Service And Administration, DPSA. I think that members who had been part of the oversight of Statistics SA for a longer period would know that in a different time the DPSA had also regulated pay scales for people who are temporarily employed for surveys and staff like that. This created a huge problem for Statistics SA. I think that not in a similar way, the regularisation of the rates of interns is a matter from the DPSA and no department has the individual right to fix those rates and that is what happened there.
In respect of the qualifications, let me just deal with the issue again. I do not think that it is comparable to look at the payments through the South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, and those 60 000 small businesses in a very short time. The systems are differently structured and I was the first one to raise the fact that we assiduously checked that the 30-day rule was complied with. When there was no compliance, we were the ones who actually raised the flags about it. It wasn't you sir, it was me who raised the issue because we sat with Statistics SA and worked through these issues systematically. [Applause.] The reason was that BAS could not deal with the problem and it was a BAS problem and not Statistics SA's problem. I have also indicated and this is why the hon Van Rooyen mentioned this.
We have asked Statistics SA to ensure that it has the capacity to deal with the accounts and all invoices coming in. However, when you have a search like the one you had during the census then it would need special measures. Statistics SA's need to put on the table before the committee is an action plan on how they plan to deal with the next large activity. This activity may be the community survey or the next census. Statistics SA is duty-bound to do that because those are unique circumstances. You cannot build an organisation at the high water mark of the census because there will be too many underemployed people in the organisation. This is just a peculiar challenge. People who run organisations will appreciate this.
The other part of the accruals was a consequence of the fact that a number of parts of what transpired during the census came from other government departments. Statistics SA would be dependent on the Department of Public Works for the hiring of buildings across the country just like they would be dependent on the departments of transport in provinces to provide motorised transport and later bill them. If the billing is out of sync you then get these kinds of accruals. That is what the Auditor-General found and the details would be revealed. Earlier I said that when the process by the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, is organised I am pretty sure that we would be able to deal with these issues.
The last issue that I would like to deal with is the Quarterly Labour Force Survey, QLFS. In my earlier address I said that it is important to deal with the issues about the business register and, hon Harris, all departments are equal. We convene but it would be churlish not to recognise that the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission, CIPC, has lived through a general problem in the year before last, occasioned by the IT systems that they have now been coming through. This last period, with the introduction of the big changes in the new Companies Act, has produced an enormous challenge for the CIPC. There have been somewhat challenges in the process and if we are not going to get this thing marching in sync then I think that it would be particularly difficult.
We now have a classification system up and running for the past fortnight. We will be able to work on this on a continuous basis. Now it is a date that we need. We need it because we need the proper frame from which to sample so that the Quarterly Employment Survey and the QLFS continue to represent far more similarities than what we have seen today. I was not in control of CIPC or the circumstances that affect them.
In respect of discouraged workers, the number is 2.3 million. It is a big number but it is a 2.3 million number and is something we will have to continue to work on. I am not sure how this will happen, but most of the Members of Parliament sit through Parliament's boring speeches like this one, playing on their ipads. All of the information is now available there. [Laughter.] Perhaps what we need to do is to work out ways of Parliament utilising the data differently.
In fact it is not a budget discussion. We need to structure different kinds of discussions and inform ourselves with debates around a series of different issues. Employment is one of those challenges. I continue to believe that it is not a party-political challenge. It is a national issue that we should all be concerned about, because there are too many young people who will become exceedingly disaffected if we do not deal with these matters.
Let me conclude by again expressing appreciation for the support, even the grudging support is important and we can now move forward to next phase of our work. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The COMMITTEE ROSE AT 16:17
JN/ END OF TAKE
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