Hansard: Debate on Vote No 17: Higher Education and Training (OAC)

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 07 May 2013

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 324

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 325

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING (Dr B E Nzimande )

"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 May 2013,"[Take-325] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][gs].doc"

Mr M I MALALE: House Chairperson, the Deputy President; the Minister of Higher Education and Training, Dr Blade Nzimande, and his colleagues in the Cabinet; hon members; senior management from the department; chief executive officers of the sector education and training authority, Setas; and other entities accountable to our department, this debate takes place on the day on which the final Constitution that heralded our democracy was adopted by the constituent assembly, seventeen years ago.

It becomes very important for me to raise this point because last year the portfolio committee processed three pieces of legislation, including the Higher Education and Training Laws Amendment Bill. This piece of legislation has ignited serious debate amongst some academics. I don't know whether it includes those that could have been awarded professorial status on the basis of getting chairs organised for auditoria in our institutions. I would like to cease this moment to clarify the point that this House adopted a legislation that empowered an independent assessor that may be appointed by the Minister if there are serious allegations in the institution that relate to financial impropriety, mismanagement and other unlawful practices in the university to be able to undertake investigations.

Our experience has been that in some institutions, particularly where the Minister had appointed assessors, they could not receive the necessary support and co-operation from administration for them to be able to conduct investigations and bring recommendations for resolution of problems that emanates in these institutions.

Now, we have intervened in terms of legislation to empower the Minister to appoint an independent assessor who would be able to summons witnesses, enter into premises where evidence is alleged to be situated for purpose of investigations. The other power which was given to the Minister in terms of this piece of legislation was that the Minister should be able to cause university council to undertake investigations and take action against people that are alleged to have been involved in acts of illegality.

There is a serious concern that has been raised and we understand that there are some people that are galvanising university councils around the country to register protest against this Bill on the basis that this Act is unlawful and unconstitutional. The basis for the argument is that when in a university there are allegations of corruption, you must leave it to the whim of the university council to undertake investigation. If nothing happens, we will then believe that institutional autonomy somehow will resolve our issues.

We would like to indicate that the Constitution which we celebrate today only enshrines academic freedom and scientific research as fundamental constitutional rights. It does not have an aspect on institutional autonomy. The issue that is being raised of institutional autonomy find its expression in the Higher Education Act and people cannot utilise this notion in order to repel our efforts to exert transformation in our universities that have been historical enclaves of privileged classes and strata.

We would like to indicate that as a portfolio committee we have a responsibility to exert oversight in all our universities; public further education and training, FET, colleges; and Setas to ensure that there is public accountability for the finances which are being appropriated today. We would like to applaud the efforts of the Stellenbosch University to integrate residences in the university including expanding entry of African students in their institution. We look to request other institutions such as the North West University to emulate this good example. In our last visit to North West University as a portfolio committee, specifically at the Potchefstroom campus, we realised that 95% of the students in that campus are lily-white. Black students are only found at the Vaal and Mafikeng campuses. It is our view that the sort of programmes that are being offered in the African campuses are comparatively of lower quality to those that are being offered in the Potchefstroom campus.

Whilst experiencing that sad reality, the chairperson of the institutional forum in that institution, strangely remarked that their institution boosted 38 years of remarkable and progressive transformation. We are surprised that a leader of the institutional forum will have the audacity to make such a claim when 63% of the staff complement in that institution is white; the student leadership in that campus is being victimised on the basis of holding views that are not congruent with those in leadership in the institution. We think this sort of matters have got to be raised in such a debate so that we can highlight the challenges that relates to transformation in higher education which all of us as a society must assist with, in order to resolve them.

We commend the Minister for raising the issue of sex for a course in our universities. The people who say we must not investigate practices of this nature in our institutions suggest that when there are such practices we should twiddle our fingers helplessly without the ability to intervene and ensure that there is order in these institutions.

As the ANC, at the 52nd Polokwane National Conference, we adopted a resolution that says we should try to achieve free education. The first president of SA Students Congress, Sasco, Robinson Ramaite, in his speech delivered twenty years ago in Norway, approvingly quoted the profound seminal assertion of Amilcar Cabral which reads as follows:

Always bear in mind that people are not fighting for ideas, for the things in anyone's head. They are fighting to win material benefits, to live better and in peace, to see their lives go forward, to guarantee the future of their children.

In this connection, our government has seen 400 000 FET students being enrolled and studying in our institutions free of charge. We have witnessed successful final year university students having their loans converted into full year cost of study. We have seen an allocation of a loan scheme that ensured that graduates are able to receive their results, certificates and academic transcripts from their universities.

These are solid steps that give practical expression to our commitment to the progressive realisation of free education. I know that Sasco expressed the concern with regard to the concept of free education. The reality of the situation is that free education comes at the cost. The billions that the Minister talked about are going to be pumped into our various universities to be able to pay our staff; and expand infrastructure so that we could provide education to our people. It also gives us a responsibility to replenish these resources for future generations. That is going to be a responsibility for all of us who are going through the education system.

It is notable that there are improvements of 12% in terms of student headcount enrolment in our universities; 24% in our FET colleges; and research masters graduates in various institutions. We would like to indicate in this regard that what belies at these improvements is that the high bands of the graduate outputs are impregnated with students coming from rich families. A lot of students from poor background are not able to pursue studies beyond undergraduate programmes because of family pressure to seek jobs and not proceed at higher levels to be able to optimise our efforts to ensure high-skills base to respond to a global economy.

We would like to indicate that the construction of the two universities in Mpumalanga and the Northern Cape against the wishes of certain Mr Van Coller cited in Mouton, Louw and Strydom arguing that South Africa does not need more tertiary institutions, stating a decline in the quality of school education; graduates unemployment; and poor research output. We would like to say that these critics would want to continue entrenching unequal distribution of educational facilities which perpetuate inequalities inherited by the democratic government.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, could you just take your seat please! Hon members on both sides of the House, the noise level is too high. There are too many private meetings and discussions taking place. If you wish to have your private meetings, please leave the Chamber. We need to pay respect to the debate and the content that is currently being discussed.

Mr P J GROENEWALD: It is the ANC.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, that includes you.

Mr M I MALALE: We agree with the Council for Higher Education for correctly observing that the apartheid government generated a historical geography of higher education that resulted in an excessive concentration of institutions and provisioning in certain areas of the country, and an absence of readily accessible contact provision in other areas. We think efforts of opening twelve campuses will improve access to education by our people and ensure that we realise the hopes of a strong economy and also a strong base of workers.

Two weeks ago, Woolworths in the Western Cape, in partnership with the Wholesale and Retail Seta, launched a project to familiarise lecturers in the public FET colleges in the Western Cape with the retail industry. We would like to applaud these efforts and urge other Setas, together with other sector partners, to follow suit in line with the Skills Accord that was entered into by the partners.

It will be remiss of me if I do not reflect on the concerns about the Seta Grant Regulations. Seta Grant Regulations are intended to direct the spending of levy resources to resolve challenges around the youth that are not in education, employment, or any training and aims to ensure the effective and efficient utilisation of skills development funding and surpluses or reserves thereof. The regulations are also aimed at ensuring that the bulk of the funding goes to critical and scarce skills required to improve the skills base of our country and ultimately improve the growth of our economy. We know that there are concerns amongst service providers that used to be beneficiaries of some indefinable programmes offered by Setas in the past. The situation where 95% of skills funds were spent on private providers was wrong. There has to be a better balance with FET colleges and universities playing a significant role.

The Department of Higher Education and Training must ensure that the Setas are no longer treated as automated teller machines, ATMs, or predictable lottery. We are not going back from our commitment to realising the objectives of the National Skills Development Strategy III and supporting the regulations that have been announced in order to actualise our end state. This is a long-term process of reform that is in the interest of the employers, industry and the economy and the ANC is determined to see that these reforms are carried through in order to achieve the impact that is required in order to build a strong economy in our country.

Our FET colleges have raised a concern regarding issuing of certificates for FET graduates. We would like to urge the Minister to ensure a response that generates clarity on this matter and also to increase pace to the efforts to bring finality to the issuing of certificates. We think this issue is also compounded by leakage of question papers in some of these FET colleges during examination, which causes the courses that are affected to be pending in the entire system. We should be able to look at this urgently.

We should take this opportunity as the ANC to affirm our commitment to realising our objective of free education; and ensuring that we build a system that is single, coherent and highly educative. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Dr A LOTRIET / KC/ END OF TAKE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 326

"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 May 2013,"[Take-326] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][gs].doc"

Mr M I MALALE

Dr A LOTRIET: Mr Chairperson, please allow me the opportunity to start by making special mention of Maluti FET College. Coming from my constituency, their soccer prowess is one of the few things in the further education and training, FET, sector that we can be truly proud of. [Laughter.]

It has been stated in various policy documents and speeches that university and college enrolments have to be expanded. The Minister has also alluded to this. This is to give adherence to the call in the Freedom Charter of 1955 to open the doors of learning and culture, and it is also imperative, if we want to address the skills shortage in the country.

In listening to the Minister's budget speech today, and looking at the department's plans, it does seem that all the right boxes can be ticked. For example, the funds made available this past year to achieve this goal have to be commended. The funding for infrastructure, student loans and bursaries is welcomed, and will indeed improve the number of students who can enter through the doors of learning.

However, the reality is that if we look at current undergraduate and college performances, the increase in intake is not necessarily in itself an efficient means of increasing graduate output. Given the problems in our school system, universities and FET colleges are faced with an increase of poorly prepared students. As it is, only 30% of all first-time entering students graduate within five years. If we have funding focussing on enrolment growth rather than on improving the educational process, the question is whether it is money well spent. The further question is whether the focus is on the numbers that have to be expanded at the input end, and whether it also includes efforts to improve the output by increasing the efficiency and the quality of the system.

Critical to success in any education system is the quality of the curriculum and especially the quality of the teaching. Ticking the boxes is not a guarantee that quality will follow. If we look at the increase in funding made available to the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, Nsfas, it does seem that Nsfas is contributing to increasing participation, but unfortunately not necessarily to increasing successful participation. The success rate of students' receiving financial assistance from Nsfas is very worrying. The way in which Nsfas is administered at some universities and FET colleges is also a point of concern. There have been a number of cases at FET colleges where the funds have been mismanaged by the college administration, and students were left without the necessary funds to pay for transport and accommodation. Many have also been excluded because their study fees were in arrears due to Nsfas funds not being made available timeously.

At the end of last year the students at Walter Sisulu University compiled a petition, indicating their concerns regarding Nsfas bursaries and loans not paid out, and the fact that they then faced financial exclusion the next year. In fact the problem has still not been resolved as the students protested only a few weeks ago and the campus in Umtata was closed down last week.

The Nsfas situation has to be addressed at a matter of urgency. The new plans look wonderful on paper but students are facing these problems now. Even though it is totally unacceptable that students protest to the extent that they damage property, there has to be some recognition for the frustration that has built up over a period of time.

Another box that can be ticked is the appointment of chartered accountants trained by the SA Institute of Chartered Accountants, Saica, at FET colleges as chief financial officers, CFOs. This is a necessary step to address the longstanding problem of colleges without CFOs, with the resultant poor financial management. However, the appointments itself will not solve the problem. An example of this is that as part of this project, a person was appointed as a CFO at an FET college in the Eastern Cape who was implicated for financial management as a CFO at a municipality. This is definitely not going to ensure quality financial management.

The additional allocation for student accommodation is welcomed. This is another box that can be ticked. The state of student accommodation at some universities is shocking and totally unfit for any person to live in. It is a tragedy that the buildings were allowed to deteriorate to this extent without any intervention. While the funds will assist in alleviating accommodation problems at the different universities, it is totally unacceptable that students were left destitute without any accommodation at the University of KwaZulu-Natal recently. A vast number of our students are already on the backfoot in terms of coming from poor environments, having to worry about fees, meals and their studies. They should not be left on the street or in temporary accommodation in an unsafe area.

Proper student accommodation forms an important part of a transformed university sector. That is why I have to mention that it's noteworthy that this situation at the University of KwaZulu-Natal occurred under the leadership of the vice chancellor, whom the Minister has appointed as the chairperson of the Oversight Committee on Transformation to oversee transformation at other universities. Would it not have been better if a retired vice chancellor had been appointed? That would have been much more appropriate and more effective to monitor needed transformation.

Key to quality higher education and training is the quality of the teaching offered at institutions. Quality teaching requires knowledgeable, experienced and qualified lecturers. The situation at our FET colleges is dire, but another box to be ticked is the efforts made to improve training for FET college lecturers. The policy for minimum requirements for vocational training lecturers must be welcomed. However, the question is what processes are in place, or going to be put in place to ensure that all FET lecturers are upskilled?

At universities the problem facing the sector is an aging academic staff complement. The reality is that within our current higher education sector we don't have enough young academics with postgraduate diplomas, PhDs, entering the sector. The Minister also referred to this.

Another tick in the box is the two new universities that are going to be built in the Northern Cape and Mpumalanga. Funding has been made available and decisions have been taken on the academic courses that these universities will focus on, but buildings, courses and students are not enough to make these institutions viable and successful. There has to be quality teaching and research. The need for additional academics at these institutions implies that even more postgraduate students will have to be enrolled and encouraged to work in academia, against the reality of an impending shortage of academics. It also implies that students who graduate with masters and doctors degrees will have to be of a high quality and, importantly, with an interest in teaching and research. Our current PhD production is not sufficient, as the Minister also noted.

A further element of quality education and training is the relevance, quality and, importantly, the level of the curricula and courses offered. It is very worrying if data shows that more than half of the students in FET colleges have already achieved a Grade 12 certificate. Colleges thus have two groups of students; those who have completed Grade 12 and those who left school before reaching Grade 12, or who had failed the National School Certificate. This means that there is a mix of learners in one programme, and lecturers struggle to adapt to these mixed groups. The result is that students don't receive adequate support and they have to struggle with course content. The question is also whether it is an efficient use of resources when a student with Grade 12 does a course that is capped at a Grade 12 level.

Regarding the FET colleges, it is clear that much needs to be done to make them institutions of first choice. However, the problem is that centralising colleges under the national department is not necessarily the answer because it requires and implies capacity within the department to actually cope with this. We have seen problems with certificates not being issued, results not being released timeously, and students having to wait and not being able to enter the job market.

Afrikaans:

Alhoewel die agb Minister en sy departement in baie gevalle reg merkies kry in die blokkies om die probleme en uitdagings in ons hoëronderwysstelsel aan te spreek, beteken dit nie dat hierdie planne en strategieë tot kwaliteit onderwys sal lei nie. In die hoëronderwyssektor is dit veral belangrik om te besef dat kommissies, verslae en komitees nie noodwendig die eise gaan aanspreek nie. lmplementering van planne en aanbevelings, en voldoening aan die verwagtinge wat geskep is, gaan die gewenste verskil teweeg bring.

Dit is van kritiese belang dat ons hoëronderwyssektor nie gereduseer word tot politiek-gedienstige instellings nie. Dit is te betwyfel of transformasie komitees – nog meer verslae wat jaarliks ingedien moet word – werklik sukkelende universiteite gaan help. Wat belangrik is, is dat universiteite die vryheid moet hê om as kritiese, kreatiewe kennisskeppers by die uitdagings van die land betrokke te raak sonder dat 'n politieke swaard oor hul koppe hang.

English:

The doors of learning have to be opened and they are opening, but an open door is of no consequence and value if it leads to a shut door. It is only within the DA's open opportunity society ... [Interjections.] ... that the open door to learning will lead to even wider doors of opportunity and success. Thank you. [Applause.]

MR B M BHANGA / TH (Eng and Afr) / END OF TAKE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 327

Mr B M BHANGA:

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 328

Mr B M BHANGA

"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 May 2013,"[Take-328] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][gs].doc"

Mr B M BHANGA

Afrikaans:

Mnr A M MPONTSHANE: Agb Voorsitter ... [Gelag.]

IsiZulu:

Phini likaMongameli, bahlonishwa oNgqongqoshe namaPhini oNgqongqoshe, Mhlonishwa ngikuthande kakhulu ngakujabulela lapho uthi usukhuluma njengoKhongolose. Ake ungivumele nami ngikhulume njengeNkatha manje. [Uhleko.] Ungilalele futhi mhlonishwa.

English:

The IFP and its leader, Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, have always recognised the value of tertiary education in the development of both individuals and society. The birth of the present University of Zululand bears testimony to this recognition. Under the instructions of the late King Cyprian kaSolomon, Prince Buthelezi mobilised amakhosi of Zululand and the community for funds to establish what was then called the Zulu College with its first intake of 60 students in 1960. This happened in spite of the fierce propaganda which was directed at this initiative, calling this institution, pejoratively, a bush university.

Today, we stand very proud of that so-called bush university which has gone on to produce many leaders who have made a substantial mark in the development of both our country and continent. Among these leaders, we can mention the hon Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, the Minister of Higher Education, hon Dr Nzimande... [Applause.]... the Minister of Justice, hon J Radebe and, of course, the current Vice-Chancellor of the University of Zululand, Prof F Mazibuko-Mwelase who is sitting there at the gallery amongst the vice chancellors.

The establishment of Mangosuthu Technikon, now the Mangosuthu University of Technology, was as a result of the personal efforts of Prince Buthelezi and not the government. Through his friend, Mr Oppenheimer of Anglo American, Prince Buthelezi obtained funds for the establishment of that technikon. The institution is today a major contributor to the skills development which our country so desperately requires. This is a prime example of how the corporate world can contribute to the building of a strong skills-based future for South Africa.

Therefore, hon Minister, our support for your efforts in skills development in South Africa is historical. We are also proud of the fact that our tertiary institutions rank consistently high on the continent, with South African universities holding the top five places on the 2013 University Web Ranking. This must be commended. [Applause.]

We know it will require both bold and decisive leadership on your part – I've heard that uwumfana wakwaDambuza; we recommend that one... [Laughter.] – as people become entrenched in their comfort zones. One of these comfort zones is the institutional autonomy of universities which we have mentioned because some universities have become too complacent with regard to bringing about transformation. If autonomy is to be respected, transformation needs to be enacted.

The struggles in our education have always been fought mainly on two issues, namely language as a medium of tuition and funding. Whilst we have done away with discriminatory funding in our education system, the sector still faces immense challenges. We welcome and appreciate the role that NSFAS has played in promoting wider access to tertiary education for our youth. The NSFAS has disbursed R7,7 billion in loans to students which ensured that not only it spent its entire budget but that the number of students assisted has increased.

Challenges that remain include registration delays, the abuse of the system by those who present false documentation in order to pass the means test and officials who use the system for political patronage. If this situation is allowed to continue, access to funding will end up being a case of survival of the most loyal to the ruling party, irrespective of merit. We hope this will not be the case and that this kind of dysfunctional and toxic modus operandi will no longer be tolerated. Chairperson, I hope to come back to this point, time permitting; the political patronage when it comes to the disbursing of NSFAS funds.

With the increased number of students applying to universities each year, the need for more universities is apparent. Therefore, the declared September 2013 commencement of the building of the two universities in Mpumalanga and the Northern Cape must be met. The department must also clarify where the proposed nine public institutions being turned into community colleges will be and when this will be done.

In conclusion, the department is making progress but more can always be done and it is in this vein that we urge the Minister to press on with his mission of providing our youth with high quality and accessible tertiary education.

Let me go back to this point of...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No you can't. You can't because your time is up.

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: I was attending a meeting on 1 May... [Time expired.] My time...?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is up. You have taken 20 seconds more.

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Okay, thank you very much. The IFP supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE / END OF TAKE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 329

"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 May 2013,"[Take-329] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][gs].doc"

Mr A M MPONTSHANE

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon Members of Parliament, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen.

Deputy Speaker, firstly, allow me focus on those who have a tendency of taking what belongs to us; those who opportunistically quote the Freedom Charter. When they have been given an opportunity to talk they don't waste it, they quote the Freedom Charter. They have as well taken the Congress of the people, the true Congress of the people in Kliptown. They take our history and heroes to demonstrate and display them as if are theirs. [Interjections.] I thought I am not talking to you, but as you respond, you accept that you are the guilty party in this particular instance. I am not going to be quoting the Freedom Charter for convenience. We are leaving the Freedom Charter ourselves.

Deputy Speaker, education is fundamental to the achievement of society envisaged in the Freedom Charter. [Interjections.]

Mr M R SAYEDALI SHAH: What does corruption has to do with Freedom Charter?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please. Continue!

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Allow me to debate for now. If you need some time with me, I will talk with you outside. I am ready for you. [Laughter.] When our people faced the oppressive impact of Bantu Education, it was teachers who stood up and ensured that we confounded the architects of apartheid by producing doctors, lawyers and engineers.

Now that we are free, we need a similar resolute commitment. Education must be elevated from being a departmental or governmental issue to a societal issue, the one that occupies the attention and energy of all our people. In 2030, according to the National Development Plan, NDP, South Africa will have over 10 million university graduates with a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree.

The Medium Term Strategic Framework with regards to higher education provides for the strengthening of the skills and human resources base, which is the Strategic Priority No 4. This speaks to the issues of broadening access to post-secondary education and improving higher education throughput rate by 20% by 2014. Within this broader objective, more emphasis is on ensuring that financial need is not a barrier to access to and success in higher education and training.

Hon Minister, if you say that two individuals have an equal access to get to Cuba, one of them being well-to-do while the other is not, you will expect them to be in Cuba. What you are actively saying is that one person will get to Cuba and the other will not, unless you create an enabling environment in terms of means and mechanisms to get there to the one that may not be able to do so.

Deputy Speaker, Education White Paper 3 alluded that there is an inequitable distribution of access and opportunities for students and staff along lines of race, gender, class and geography. There are gross discrepancies in the participation rates of students from different population groups. It further indicated that the principle of equity requires fair opportunities both to enter higher education programmes and to succeed in them.

We congratulate the ANC-led government for notable change in the lives of the poor since the advent of National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS. This is further evidenced by the debt recovery base that NSFAS has achieved. The recovery of loans show that the previous beneficiaries which were poor have now moved into a new class and are earning better salaries.

In 2006, the scheme's loan recovery exceeded R26 million per month, with a total recoveries of loans per financial year totaling R329 million in that year. The loan recovery from the previous beneficiaries has increased tremendously in 2011 with monthly recovery base of R45 million per month and over R700 million in that year. These recoveries are injected back into NSFAS to complement government's allocation.

It should also be acknowledged that the demand for access and financial assistance far exceed the NSFAS voted funds. There is a need to rethink of other sources of funding to ensure that every NSFAS beneficiary gets funded for a full cost of study and taking care of potential beneficiaries who could be covered if the funds were to be increased.

In February 2013, the university NSFAS shortfall was reported to be at R700 million while by end of April it was R2 billion. This shows that top-slicing policy is not going to go away any soon. This policy greatly reduces financial packages of students and has a potential of reducing students' ability to graduate.

The issue of upfront registration fees by NSFAS beneficiaries should also be addressed. Students are even made to sign blank NSFAS loan forms which may be open to abuse.

Let me take this opportunity to commend the work done by some national and provincial departments in providing financial assistance in the form of bursaries to indigent students. In addressing skills shortages in provinces, provincial departments are increasingly offering financial assistance to students in the form of bursaries. I should also commend the contribution that the Sector Education and Training Authorities and corporate sectors in partnering with NSFAS made to provide more financial assistance.

In as much as we are increasing access through financial assistance, we acknowledge that our current infrastructure is inadequate to absorb these numbers. We are pleased upon the knowledge that in September 2013, the construction of the two new universities will commence as indicated in the state of the nation address. This will go a long way in broadening access to higher education to the previously disadvantaged communities. What should be addressed though is the uncertainty that is apparently facing the national institutes of higher education.

We applaud the Central Application Clearing House piloted from January 2013 to assist prospective students who passed but did not apply for admission. South African Qualifications Authority reported that 90 000 calls were received and 15% of those learners who called were accepted into different institutions. We are also pleased that Apply Now Campaign has helped in getting messages across to prospective post-school education and training students to apply in time. This campaign reduced walk-ins in universities. We are interested in finding to what extent has this system assisted the rural poor who need the system the most.

Comparative research studies found that South Africa' spending on

education is internationally comparable, though proportion spending on higher education is still low. We are concerned that graduation and throughput rate is not reflecting the spending.

Hon Deputy Speaker and members, in this current financial year our department is targeting 83% of our universities with good governance and management. We are still having institutions that are under administration and we must ensure this number does not increase. The Ministry should stabilize that environment. Quality of higher education, increased graduation and throughput rates also depend on good cooperative governance of our universities.

Council and management of our institutions should be committed to adhering to institutional policies and regulations. There is a growing concern that in some institutions councils are not carrying out their fiduciary role of exercising their oversight role through providing support and guidance to the executive management. There are claims that they just rubber stamp decisions taken by the management while in some institutions there are continuous conflicts between council members and management.

We further heard, during our committee oversight visits to institutions of higher learning, that there is lack of commitment of ministerial appointees. Apparently they do not attend meetings regularly and their contribution in supporting the management is often missed. Hon Minister, we urge the Department of Higher Education and Training to look into this matter and ensure that all council members participate as required.

We are pleased that the Auditor-General, AG, reported that universities' financial management has improved over the past three years. In 2011-12 financial year, 87% of the universities got unqualified audit reports opinion. This is encouraging and we hope that other universities will work hard towards moving out of financial qualification.

The AG also found that there were still some challenges in some institutions regarding supply chain management, internal control deficiencies, and procurements which were not competitive. Let me remind the university vice chancellors and council members present here: the department has allocated funds for student accommodation. We trust that these projects are not going to increase a number of tenderpreneurs in our universities. We are hoping that fair and competitive bidding processes will be followed when procuring services for student accommodation projects.

While on student accommodation, we also welcome and applaud the Minister's ground-breaking investigation into student housing. The Ministerial Task Team Report on Student Housing has found that only 5% of the first time entering students are housed in university student residences. The report has revealed a dire need of student accommodation in our institutions, especially the historically disadvantaged institutions.

The conditions in which our students are staying under are appalling to say the least. This shortage of student accommodation has created a situation where these students are academically and socially vulnerable.

Hon Deputy Speaker, our country's higher education is unequally distributed geographically. It is obvious that shortage of student accommodation hinders access and success in higher education, especially for migrant students from provinces where higher education is not easily accessible. This also contributes to high dropout. We have heard of media reports where female students are raped on their way to and from campus libraries, those who are staying in private rented shacks. Some were murdered by thugs who wanted to steal their cellphones and laptops. Our children have to endure these hard conditions because they are desperate for education.

We have also learnt of student hunger in our institutions. Most of the universities have privatised or outsourced their in-house catering services while in some institutions, dining halls are white elephants while in some are turned into store rooms. The private catering companies have increased the prices of food and many poor students are not able to afford, hence their NSFAS meal vouchers get depleted within a short time. As the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training, we urge universities to reconsider taking back catering services and to also reopen the dining halls.

Hon Minister, we thank you for the dedication in ensuring that funds are allocated towards building new residences and minimum norms and standards for student residences were gazetted for public comments. These minimum standards will ensure that institutions of higher learning have comparable infrastructure as proposed by the NDP.

The Doctor of Philosophy study conducted by Academy of Science of South Africa in 2010 revealed that our country needs to produce 6 000 Doctor of Philosophies per annum, of which 3 000 needs to be in science, engineering and technology. However, as a country we are still far from reaching these targets.

The NDP alluded that only 34% of academic staff in higher education have Doctor of Philosophies. We need to be realistic if we want to produce the required number of Doctor of Philosophies as proposed by the NDP. Current promoters and supervisors are overworked with teaching, administration and supervision; hence they provide inadequate support to students.

It is worrying that we are currently sitting with 41% of Doctor of Philosophy dropout. I know it is not only academic support that causes dropout; financial need is also a challenge for many aspiring students. Some countries are investing in their students by providing better scholarships which encourage student retention.

As the ANC we are concerned about the allegations that some political organizations, DA in particular, are creating an impression that assistance given to NSFAS beneficiaries during registration comes from their parties. We therefore call upon the Ministry to investigate whether the allegations are true.

Xitsonga:

Muhlonipheki Xandla xa Xipikara, mfumo wa ANC wu tirhile swinene ku antswisa vutomi bya vanhu va tiko ra hina, ngopfungopfu eka vadyondzi lava humaka evuswetini na le matikoxikaya.

English:

ANC support budget vote 17. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr P J GROENEWALD/Arnold / END OF TAKE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 330

"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,09 May 2013,"Take 330 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE

Afrikaans:

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Adjunkspeaker, ek wil begin deur vir die agb Minister te sê dat die VF Plus met hom saamstem dat 'n professor 'n professor moet wees. Die standaarde moet van so 'n aard wees dat hulle internasionaal erkenning kan kry en dat daar groot waardering is vir hul navorsing. Dit is 'n professor. Hulle is soms 'n bietjie verstrooid, maar as dit oor hul vakgebied gaan, is hulle kundiges. Hulle is hoogleraars wat dit betref.

Ek wil vir die agb Minister vra waarom, indien hy wil hê professors moet professors wees, hy dan kan toelaat dat 'n universiteit soos die Universiteit van Kaapstad verskillende toelatingsvereistes het vir mediese studente, waar die kriterium byvoorbeeld, argumentsonthalwe, 90 punte is vir wit studente, 85 vir Indiër studente, 80 vir bruin studente, en 72 vir swart studente. Dan kan u nie professors kry wat 'n professor is nie, want u verlaag die standaarde vir toelating tot 'n universiteit. Ek wil vir die agb Minister sê dat 'n universiteit nie sy beheer en sy kontrole nodig het nie. Die internasionale wetenskap is die kriteria waaraan 'n universiteit gemeet word. Sy gehalte van navorsing, sy gehalte van onderrig, en of 'n professor 'n professor is, word bepaal ingevolge internasionale standaarde. Die VF Plus maak ernstig beswaar daarteen dat die agb Minister wil inmeng by die bestuur en die beheer van universiteite.

U is behep met regstellende aksie, agb Minister, maar u kla. U sê aan hierdie kant is daar meer doktorandi as aan die kant van die ANC. Nou moet u vir die mense sê: Wil u die standaarde verlaag sodat dat meer doktorandi aan die kant van die ANC ook is soos aan die linkerkant? Dan is dit 'n belediging vir daardie doktorandi. Daarom wil die VF Plus sê dat daar nie ingemeng moet word met universiteite nie.

Laastens wil ek aan die agb Minister vra of hy 'n probleem met Afrikaans het. Wil u Afrikaans tot niet maak in Suid-Afrika? Wees dan eerlik. Sê vir die mense van Suid-Afrika, want in 1994 was daar 22 universiteite in Suid-Afrika, waarvan sewe Afrikaans was. Tans is daar vyf wat tweetalig is en basies net twee wat oorwegend Afrikaans is, nie net Afrikaans nie – oorwegend. Tog is u soos Lord Kitchener: u wil alles Engels hê – Engels, alles Engels. U wil die universiteite herkolonialiseer, agb Minister. Sê vir die mense waar u met Afrikaans en onderrig staan, want dan kan ons vorder en sorg dat 'n professor 'n professor is. Ek dank u. [Applous.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING /Mia / END OF TAKE

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Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 331

"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 May 2013,"[Take-331] [National Assembly Chamber Main][NAC-Logger][gs].doc"

Mr H B GROENEWALD

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Speaker; Your Excellency Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe; hon Minister of Higher Education and Training, Dr Blade Nzimande and members of his family present; honourable Ministers and Deputy Ministers present; Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training, Adv Malale; and hon Members of Parliament; the Director-General of the Department of Higher Education and Training and the entire staff component of the department; heads and executives of all our portfolio organisations and institutions; ANC Gauteng Provincial Secretary, Comrade David Makhura; National Coordinator of the ANCYL National Task Team, Cde Magasela Mzobe; student organisations present; my family in the public gallery; my distinguished guest; comrades and compatriots, I greet you all.

Over the past year we have been on a journey of discovery - discovery of our nation's capacity to rise to many challenges of our times. The road we have travelled is full of pitfalls that not only evidence where we come from but also how we have carried out our mandate as elected servants of the people. On each stone there is a small acknowledgement next to each achievement which reads:

Only those who know where we come from, and where we are going, can know how much we have achieved.

This acknowledgement comes from the people whose dream of access to quality higher education was always deferred in pre-1994 South Africa. This is the fourth budget speech of the Ministry of Higher Education and Training to the fourth Democratic Parliament of post-1994 South Africa. It is indeed an honour and privilege for me to deliver my first budget speech as the Deputy Minister of Higher Education and Training wherein I will share some insight on some of the key areas that form part of my delegations. [Applause.]

We fully agree with the National Development Plan to:

Accelerate efforts in integrating issues of disability into all facets of society and ensure equitable service provision for persons with disabilities...

...and to eradicate the physical, information and communication barriers, which may prevent persons with disabilities from participating fully in the learning experience.

This year, I took the initiative of visiting selected high schools for persons with special needs to encourage them to enter the post-school education and training system under the theme, Disability is No Barrier to Learning, guided by the understanding that inclusivity is one of the underpinning principles of the South African education system.

I am happy to report that we have since set aside or ring-fenced funding for building capacity within our institutions to accommodate the needs of all persons with disabilities. We have also set aside student financial aid to fully support disabled learners to overcome the barriers facing them. [Applause.]

To get our Sectoral Education and Training Authorities, SETAs, involved, a partnership between the Wholesale and Retail SETA and the SA Disability Development Trust ensued which saw 404 disabled people being trained in five provinces, namely: The Eastern Cape; Gauteng; Free State; KwaZulu-Natal; and the Western Cape. The purpose of this intervention was to introduce disabled people to the wholesale and retail environment, equip them with workplace skills and increase their employability.

I am happy to report that several host employers have since opened up their workplaces for the 404 disabled people to acquire workplace skills. [Applause.] One of the beneficiaries of this programme is my special guest today, Mr Sizakele Mdladla, who is wheelchair bound and hails from Khayelitsha, who gave a testimony during one of the graduation ceremonies that I attended of how this programme have since changed his life. [Applause.]

Appreciating that our higher education and training institutions are not exempt from the risk of HIV, we felt that there is a definite responsibility and role for us to fulfil in the mitigation of HIV, Aids and TB in order to improve access and build a strong skilled human resource for national development. The Higher Education HIV/Aids programme, Heaids, is a dedicated national facility to develop and support the HIV mitigation programmes at South Africa's public Higher Education Institutions, HEIs.

We applaud Heaids for driving the First Things First programme and the tremendous work that they have been doing in our universities and universities of technology in the past few years. In 2013, I directed Heaids under the leadership of its Director Dr Ramneek Ahluwalia, who is in the public gallery, to extend the HIV/Aids testing and TB screening programme to FET colleges as the students in this sector are vulnerable and more susceptible to the pandemic. [Applause.]

This was to further align the programme to the 2012-2016 National Strategic Plan for HIV, STIs and TB which emphasises on the effective practical implementation of a comprehensive response at all our institutions. I'm happy to inform the people of South Africa that in February this year, I launched the First Things First programme in the FET sector at the Mnambithi FET College in Ladysmith. I must say, this is a major breakthrough!

Just last week, we visited the Gert Sibande FET College as part of our First Things First HIV/Aids and TB Counselling and testing roll out plan. We will also be visiting the Goldfields FET College in the Free State in August this year on a similar mission. We thank the Deputy President for his leadership in this regard as Chairperson of the SA National Aids Council. [Applause.]

The Minister of Higher Education and Training launched 2013 as the Year of the Artisan at an auspicious event at the Tembisa Campus of the Ekurhuleni West FET College in Gauteng. The launch signalled the beginning of an artisan development advocacy programme that is being rolled out across the country led by my office as mandated by the Minister.

The advocacy programme is being rolled out under the theme, It's cool to be an Artisan, and is already finding considerable resonance among many South Africans. It is being supported by large numbers of persons, mainly our high school learners. Each event also links a local secondary school to a local FET College and in this regard we are working very closely with our Setas so that they facilitate workplace training for our students. We have further directed our FET colleges to host Open Days for high schools in order to promote their programme offerings.

We call on all South Africans to heed to our call and join us as we promote artisan development in our country. This is really to elevate the status of artisans and further build a strong skills base in South Africa in our final attempt to improve the employment prospects of our young people.

Mr Welcome Mduduzi Phiri, posted on my wall on Facebook this morning and said:

Deputy Minister, the revitalisation of FET colleges by your department has been great. These institutions were ignored and downgraded. It was not ayoba to be a graduate from an FET college but the hard work of Dr Nzimande and yourself is bearing good fruit.

This year, I launched World Skills South Africa or what we refer to as the South African chapter of the world Olympics on skills.

The Minister of Higher Education and Training strongly felt that for a developmental state like South Africa, it makes more sense to organise sessions of this nature where international perspectives specifically on skills development are shared given the need for the country to thrive as a global partner and competitor. International best practices and benchmarks are the critical elements for a progressive economic system.

Two of my special guests in the public gallery today are Mr Thulani Mzayidume, a past participant in mechatronics at the 41st World Skills Competition in London, United Kingdom in 2011 and Mr Marvin Lottering, who will be participating in dry walling and plastering at the 42nd World Skills Competition in Leipzig, Germany next month. [Applause.] I must commend the Manufacturing, Engineering and Related Services Seta, Mers Seta, and Services Seta, both for the good work. We see these skills competitions as a great way of harnessing our energy for the Year of the Artisan.

When we launched the Apply Now campaign last year the aim was to create awareness of career options and application procedures to be followed for post-school education and training. The intention really was to reduce the long queues and some of the chaos that generally take place at our universities at the beginning of each academic year. I am pleased to report that we reached out to Grade 9 to 12 learners in all of the 6 000 public high schools and distributed 600 booklets throughout South Africa in 2012.

I also visited selected universities at the beginning of the year, namely: the University of Venda; the University of Johannesburg; the University of Fort Hare; and the University of Zululand to monitor the impact of the Apply Now campaign and I am pleased to report that the registration and late application processes ran smoothly. During this academic year, we had minimal walk-ins, less long queues, no reported student protest linked to the registration process and no stampedes whatsoever. [Applause.] We are happy to report that this intervention impacted positively on the marginalised and rural youth.

For 2013, we have updated the Apply Now booklet and will distribute it in June to all high schools in the country. We will continue to reach out to as many learners as possible during this current year. As the final phase of the Apply Now campaign, we want to focus on raising awareness about the Central Applications Clearing House facility.

This facility was successfully implemented at the beginning of this year as a precursor of the central application system. The service managed to advise prospective students of the various educational opportunities within the post-school system and helped direct them to available spaces in the system.

I am happy to announce that the department will be developing and testing the IT system for the central applications service during this financial year, and will pilot the system for phased implementation from 2015. [Applause.] We are on course!

Let me take this opportunity and extend my gratitude of thanks to the President of the Republic, His Excellency, J G Zuma, for his continued guidance and support.

To the Minister of Higher Education and Training, Dr Nzimande:

Isizulu:

Ngibonga kakhulu ukungixhasa nokungesekela kuwo wonke umsebenzi engiwenzayo.

English:
To my colleagues in the executive: Thank you very much for your support and teamwork.

To members of the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training: Your constructive role in playing your oversight function is most commendable.

To the management and staff of the department under the stewardship of the director-general: Continue to be patriotic South Africans as you have demonstrated in the past year in our final quest to bring quality service to our people.

To my movement; the oldest liberation movement in Africa: I couldn't have served my people to the best of my ability under any other ticket than the African National Congress. [Applause.]

To my family and friends, my mother in particular, Comrade Sibongile Manana, who is sitting in the gallery: Thank you for affording me the space... [Applause.] ...to execute my duties and the support you have given me since I heeded to the public call of service and duty.

My sincere gratitude goes to all the personnel in my office for their dedication, commitment and willingness to work beyond the call of duty.

Let me reiterate what I have said above: Now that we have achieved so much, we must claim our rightful place among the achievers in terms of deliverables. The task at hand remains a daunting one, but the prize is big. Forging change is not easy. We have to confront established ways of thinking and working. We must continue to gain the momentum to fight for a truly educated and skilled workforce in our country. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY /Mosa (English)/Gugu (IsiZulu) / END OF TAKE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8 May 2013 Take: 332

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING

Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you Deputy Speaker, hon Minister-What effect does the strike like that at Walter Sisulu University have on the budget for Higher Education after students have gone on the rampage, burning down a dining hall, topping fences, smashing windows and scattering litter?

Is there an urgent investigation being done into the circumstances triggering the violent protests in which students accuse management of dragging its feet regarding National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS,loan agreements, not issuing "inter cards" that is meal vouchers and of irregularly appointing a private security company?

Other students of cause have complained about student residences which they say are in a foul state, filthy dirty, run-down, and overcrowded, not to mention the ablution facilities and apparently there is no dining hall operational at Walter Sisulu University, WSU, instead the students are entitled to vouchers to spend at a nearby Spar supermarket and those vouchers have not been forthcoming, leaving students on a diet of bread and milk.

While this sort of behaviour by the students is indefensible and responsible students must face serious consequences, the ACDP is concerned that conditions are deteriorating to the degree that living conditions are intolerable. What measures are in place to assist students affected by the closures? Which I think is what the kind of question we are getting more and more.

The need for higher and further education of cause and training in South Africa is intensifying in the face of an extremely competitive job market and the national unemployment rate as well been 25 to 40% depending on whose eyes you are looking through and I believe one standard used in counting unemployment is-if you work one hour a week you are employed, so we can probably looking more on the 40% than the 25.

A milpark Business School has pointed out key factors that may impact future of Higher Education and may be interesting for the department to take a look at those factors, some of them mentioned here at the immense growth of mobile technology with smart cell phones and tablets that will enable the delivery of educational material, the improving bandwidth quality and lower internet prices which make it possible for students to access distance learning resources online, responsible online business, banking and financial skills which support the expansion of the economy, not to mention greater access to job openings and the web which enables learning years beyond school, to facilitate possible career changes and for updating skills in the global corporate environment.

How is the department doing in the area of creating more bridging courses which can play a vital role in assisting students to gain access to degree programmes and this causes a need many have identified as key in producing students better prepared for higher and further education.

The budget for the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, appears to have increased with R6 billion, up from R5,4 billion last year, which we welcome in the hope that it will result in greater numbers of students accessing tertiary education. But, what has happened to the plans that that where in place apparently for NSFAS personnel to be at tertiary institutions to ensure that there are problem free access to financial aid?

The ACDP sincerely hopes that between you and Minister Motsoaledi,.you also manage to get the provision of nursing colleges sorted out as quickly as possible, and this very important issue seems to have fallen between the cracks of the two departments.

The ACDP will be supporting this budged. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr S M MAYATULA / MALUTA / END OF TAKE

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Mr S M MAYATULA:

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Mr K J DIKOBO:

Dr L L BOSMAN:

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Ms N GINA:

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Ms N GINA

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, let me just say that I wish to thank the staff in the Ministry, especially my Deputy Minister, who has brought a lot of activism to the Ministry, for the work and support that he has given me. Let me say that, in light of the fact that there isn't enough time to comment on many of the points that have been raised, we have noted all these issues, and we are going to develop a programme to continue engagement in the portfolio committee. I will only respond to a few, but it doesn't mean that the points that I don't speak about are not important.

On the issue of certificates, we have made this a priority now. For example, we have resumed with the production of the National Certificate Vocational, NCV, certificates and, during this year, approximately 125 000 candidates will be certified in the process. We have already finished 11 761 NCV Level 2 certificates. We are prioritising this matter. We are aware that it is a weakness that we have to address.

IsiZulu:

Bhanga, hhayi khuluma iqiniso ndoda yamadoda; awuyazi into obufuna ukuyisho namhlanje! Sisemgqeni nje nsizwa yakithi, senza zonke izinto ngokuyikho, engabe uvele washo njalo.

English:

The reason why I talk about "I" is because I have been deployed as a cadre, and I must account and say "I" and not say "we". [Applause.]

IsiZulu:

Ukuthi mina ngenzeni.

English:

On the issue of tackling corruption, we have put the Local Government Sector Education and Training Authority, LGSETA, under administration, by the way, to show that we are serious about addressing these matters.

Hon Groenewald, I want to ask you a question – I don't want to destroy Afrikaans, by the way. How come, in a university that is predominantly Afrikaans speaking like Stellenbosch, the majority of Afrikaans speakers in the Western Cape are a minority in that institution? I would like to pose that to the FF Plus to answer. What is the reason? Is the issue really Afrikaans, or is it something else?

Afrikaans:

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Adjunkspeaker, kan ek die vraag beantwoord? [Hon Deputy Speaker, may I answer the question?]

English:

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I don't think it is meant to be answered.

Afrikaans:

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Wel, die agb Minister vra my 'n vraag. [Well, the hon Minister asked me a question.]

English:

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Minister, you are not chairing my meeting.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: No, I am not. I am not.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you asking him to answer now or when you have tea?

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: No, when we have tea and also next time. [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, then.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, I want to say, though, to hon Lotriet, that, frankly, if her DA colleagues could only do half of what she does, we would have progress, because she acknowledges the good things that we are doing...

Mr I M OLLIS: What good things?

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: ... and disagrees where she disagrees. That is fair; it makes one want to listen to her, rather than opposing for the sake of opposing. [Applause.] I wish that they can learn from her. The only issue that I have a problem with is the phrase "open opportunity society." That is like a red rag before a bull, because I ask myself the question: What kind of open opportunity society are you talking about if you are opposing affirmative action? What kind of open opportunity society are you talking about if you are calling South Africa...

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the point of order? Minister, please take your seat.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister cannot stand there and say that we oppose affirmative action when he has no proof of it. He is misleading the House. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, Minister. That is not a point of order.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: What kind of open society are we talking about when you are calling other South Africans refugees in the Western Cape? [Interjections.] What kind of open society are you talking about when the Western Cape government goes around closing schools that are serving predominantly the black population? [Interjections.]

In fact, to oppose affirmative action is to say that we must continue with the racist, patriarchal, apartheid labour market. To call people refugees, to me, sounds like the Group Areas Act. To actually close down schools sounds like the so-called Extension of University Education Act. [Interjections.] In fact, those who are saying that a DA government will bring back apartheid are right. [Interjections.] They are absolutely correct, just on the basis of this. [Applause.] Not in this kind of South Africa – you are opposing many of the things that we are doing and the effect would actually be to maintain a racially and gender unequal society. That is why this country needs the ANC.

IsiZulu:

Nina uma singaniyekela niphathe leli lizwe, ubandlululo luyovuka lume ngezinyawo. Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Phini likaSomlomo. [Ihlombe.]

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 16:40.

/Mia (Eng)//ZLU LIM// END OF TAKE

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