Hansard: NA:Committees Plenary
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 23 Oct 2012
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 368
WEDNESDAY, 24 OCTOBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
________
The House met at 15:01.
The Acting Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The ACTING SPEAKER
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Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 368
Start of day
The ACTING SPEAKER: Hon members, before I call upon the Deputy President, a question was raised as to why only three questions were published for the Deputy President, instead of the full quota of four questions as per the Rules. Parties entitled to ask questions to the Deputy President for today were the ANC, IFP, and smaller parties in groups one and two. The political parties were informed on 25 September 2012, and again on 3 October 2012, of the deadline by which questions for oral reply to the Deputy President should be submitted.
Smaller parties in group two, namely the ACDP, UCDP, PAC, MF, Azapo, and APC did not submit any questions before the deadline. The Questions Office received an indication from the ACDP on the day of the deadline, 15 October 2012, that the party would be submitting a question. The question however was never received. In instances like this, where a party or group does not make use of its opportunity, the next party in the rotation with a valid additional question will have an opportunity to ask the question. Unfortunately, no additional questions were submitted by any of the parties concerned. Consequently, only the three questions received were published and those are the questions we are going to deal with.
QUESTION 17
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 368
The ACTING SPEAKER
Question 17:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Acting Speaker and hon members, as I have reported to this House before, I do provide a report to each Cabinet meeting on the overdue replies to parliamentary questions, both in this House and in the NCOP. Ministers are well aware of their obligation in terms of the Constitution to account collectively and individually to Parliament for the exercise of their powers and the performance of their functions.
Having made enquiries regarding the reasons for failure to reply to the 13 outstanding questions in the period that the hon Ndlovu refers to, it would appear that the difficulty lies in the desire on the part of Ministers to provide accurate information so that they do not end up misleading the House. The nature of the questions is very extensive, and in some cases it covers provinces as well. So, that can account for the delays. However, Ministers are reminded on a regular basis at each and every sitting of Cabinet. Thank you.
Mr V B NDLOVU
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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 368
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr V B NDLOVU: Acting Speaker, and thank you, hon Deputy President. It seems as if there are challenges, because if the Ministers cannot fulfil their functions because of a problem in their offices hampering them from doing so, something has to be done. One is that if people who are supposed to respond to their questions are not suited to doing that, they must be fired and other people who are qualified to do the job must be employed. Two, when this House asks questions, we ask questions for information, not for our people or our own sake but for the sake of the country and that of other people too so that they will learn from those questions.
Therefore, if the Ministers cannot fulfil their functions, that means they are neglecting to do their duties. What are we going to do about it? Steps have to be taken against those people who are supposed to do the job properly. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon Ndlovu. Indeed, as I stated, Ministers are well aware of their obligations to account to this House. My role and my duty really are very similar to the role of flight attendants who continue to remind even frequent flyers of the safety procedures. [Laughter.] This is what I do too to my Cabinet colleagues; I do remind them of this obligation. I do insist that they should respond to all questions without failure.
There are some departments and Ministers, as I indicated earlier on, who always have a clean slate and no outstanding questions whatsoever. We have said to colleagues who have accumulated outstanding questions that a formula does exist in these colleagues' departments. So, please do draw lessons from that and copy what works, so that we can all have a clean slate and account to Parliament. Thank you.
MRs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 368
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Acting Speaker, the very genuine undertakings from the Deputy President and also the steps he took are unfortunately not adequate at this stage because there was a decline in the number of answers given from 2010 to 2011. In fact, it worsened by 47%. Some of the worst offenders unfortunately include the President of the country. His failure rate in terms of responding to questions is 22%; that of the Minister of Correctional Services, 48,39%; the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, 29,46%; and the Minister of Communications, 20%. Obviously, this is totally unacceptable.
Despite the fact that the National Assembly Rules provide for 10 parliamentary working days after publication of the questions, some 254 questions remained unanswered towards the end of last year. We therefore want to know what other steps you are contemplating to make a turnaround so as to make sure that the people respect the Constitution and their duty to account to Parliament and to give the necessary information - including possible deductions from their salaries. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I can only use persuasion and constant reminders and be a gadfly to my colleagues in terms of reminding them of their responsibilities. The power to impose any penalties rests with this august House. Indeed, if there are to be some disincentives, they have got to come from this House. However, in Cabinet, we have a standing item on the agenda of every Cabinet meeting dealing with this very issue of outstanding questions. Even this morning, I provided my colleagues who have outstanding questions with the list of all questions that they have to respond to. Thank you.
Mrs S V KALYAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 368
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mrs S V KALYAN: Acting Speaker, hon Deputy President, to say that I am stunned by your answer about the Ministries not being able to provide proper answers is putting it mildly. Sir, indirectly you are referring to the incompetence of Ministries to answer questions. In this day of information technology, IT, and information readily available, there should not be a waiting period of longer than 10 working days.
I also wish to correct your figures. You said that 13 questions remained unanswered. As of Friday, 19 October, 332 questions remained unanswered. Sir, if you are saying that you are using the method of being the flight attendant, then I think you are offering your Ministers far too much of a lifejacket, because there isn't a penalty. There is no explanation, and, quite frankly, its smacks of arrogance that they refuse to answer questions.
On 24 November last year, you, yourself, said that there are no cheques and balances in place and you will attend to that. I would like to know what you have done, so far, 11 months down the line. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Acting Speaker, hon Kalyan, the questions I am responding to, posed by the hon member Ndlovu, were before 31 March 2012. The question was very specific and it referred to 13 questions. I was not, by any stretch of the imagination, suggesting that those are the only outstanding questions.
I do have a list of outstanding questions that I presented to my colleagues this morning, in the Cabinet meeting. Unfortunately, I have not totalled them up but I have got the numbers. I could give you the exact figure, as it were. Thank you.
Ms M L DUNJWA
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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 368
THE DEPUTY PRESIDNET
IsiXhosa:
Nksz M L DUNJWA: Masibulele Sekela-Mongameli ngokuphinda usikhumbuze ukuba wawuphendule wathini. Siyazi ukuba xa abaPhathiswa bezama ukuba bangayikhohlisi iNdlu, ngelinye ixesha kuye kuthiwe bayonqena okanye akukho nto bayaziyo. Kodwa ke, siyi-ANC siyema sikucela kwaye sikubongoza ukuba ukhondoze ukubacela ukuba baphendule imibuzo. Sonelisekile yimpendulo yakho kwaye siyabulela ngemizamo yakho. Enkosi.
QUESTION 18
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 369
QUESTION 17
Question 18:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Acting Speaker, hon Members including hon Mc Gluwa, may be aware that the War on Poverty programme was created to accelerate service delivery by identifying beneficiaries who are entitled to receive already existing services from government, but for some reason or other are not. Once these beneficiaries are identified, their characteristics profiled and the services that they are entitled to identified, the War on Poverty programme then refer them to the appropriate department or agency where the budget for the particular service resides. Thus, for example, if the service needed is an identity document, then we bring in people from Home Affairs to process that application.
To this end, the War on Poverty programme does not have a dedicated budget, but the approach aims to address gaps where an existing service does not reach the beneficiary.
An important feature to also note is that once the service that has been referred to is rendered, the department or agency does not account for it separately from the rest of the services extended to all citizens. Thank you for your attention.
Mr J J MC GLUWA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 369
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr J J MC GLUWA: Acting Speaker, Deputy Speaker and hon Deputy President, as you are aware, 57% of South Africans live below the poverty line. It's actually a pity today that the answer does not accommodate the amount of money spent on poverty.
When looking at the spending of more than R200 million on President Zuma's Nkandla homestead, I would like to ask the Deputy President whether he thinks if the money that has been spent is justifiable, given that we have so many people who live in poverty in South Africa. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That sounds like a new question altogether because you are essentially asking me to comment on a matter which, correctly speaking, should be responded to by the Minister of Public Works. [Interjections.]
All I am saying is that it is actually unrelated to the war on poverty. [Interjections.] It is unrelated in the sense that we have allocations for different uses. So, if you ask how many loaves of bread would we have provided to people who go without; had we perhaps not chartered a plane but used public transport – we can go on and on and on like that. The fact of the matter is that this particular question that you are posing is not a follow-up to the question that you posed in the first instance. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms A M DREYER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 369
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Ms A M DREYER: Madam Acting Speaker, the 2011-12 annual reports released over the last months reveal that government spent R4,67 billion on entertainment, catering and travel during that financial year. In view of our unusually high levels of unemployment, poverty and extreme inequality, how does the Deputy President justify this amount that government spent on eating, drinking and partying?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Acting Speaker, hon Members, I saw this figure for the first time in the media and unfortunately there is no breakdown of what is meant by eating and drinking. This is a hell of a lot of money. [Laughter.] [Applause.] I really mean it. It's a lot of money.
I suspect that if we were to ask the Minister of Finance to look into this matter to confirm and break down the figure, you may very well find that a big chunk of it is accounted by in the fact that everything we do is in duplicate. We have to maintain all tools of trade in Pretoria as well as in Cape Town. There are lots and lots of costs in this, which I am sure would account for a big chunk of this amount. But, as I said, unfortunately I am not able to shed any light on it. It's something that I could perhaps check with my colleague, the Minister of Finance, to break it down for me, and if it pleases you I can then share with you in writing what he says. Thank you.
Mr N SINGH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 369
THE DPEUTY PRESIDENT
Mr N SINGH: Acting Speaker, my question relates to the war on poverty. Hon Deputy President, Millennium Development Goal 1, MDG 1, is the Eradication of Extreme Poverty and Hunger. In 2010 the President of our country, the hon JZ Zuma said:
In addressing the scourge of poverty, MDG 1 is South Africa's first priority. We shall speed up growth and transform the economy to create decent work and sustainable livelihoods.
Hon Deputy President, in the 2011 MDG Report, which I have, I quote:
Based on recent economic growth, performance and forecasted trends, the extreme poverty rate in the sub-Saharan region is expected to fall below 36%.
Hon Sir, my question is, given that the economic growth rate in our country is much lower than what was forecast two years or even a year ago, do you think South Africa is on target in reaching MDG 1 by the year 2015? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon Singh. Indeed our growth projections were revised downwards and therefore it may very well mean that we will not be able to meet the set targets. In fact, we have been keeping an eye on another indicator, which is the number of people who are recipients of social grants. That has also been rising. In the current global economic climate many other countries will not be able to meet the targets set in the MDGs and so it is understandable that we may not be able to meet those targets.
That is why we have been convening meetings of all stakeholders to try and lift the outlook of the country, because even the rating agencies have given us a rather negative outlook. This means that we have got to pull up our socks and do everything possible to get the economy and the confidence of investors on a firm footing so that we can indeed tackle the challenges of poverty and hunger. Thank you.
Mr L S NGONYAMA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 369
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr L S NGONYAMA: Acting Speaker, hon Deputy President, it is clear that we are not winning the war against poverty, especially if we go by the figures that have been released, in research done by the UCT Children's Institute that 60% of children in South Africa now are living in poverty. The majority of these children come from homes that have earnings of approximately R575 on a monthly basis.
Therefore, if that is the case it means that there should be serious intervention that is being planned by government. Can you take us into your confidence as to what exactly government is planning to actually work on the special interventions to deal with poverty? When will we have realignment of antipoverty programmes directly with the National Development Plan? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon members, the President took the initiative to convene all the major stakeholders in the economic sphere, to try and get common appreciation of the very tight and difficult situation in which we find ourselves today, with the view of harnessing all of their brainpower and resources to see whether we can give a lift to efforts of literally pulling ourselves by our bootstraps out of this rut in which we find ourselves.
The question of levels of poverty, unemployment and inequality is accepted and well appreciated by all. However, the critical point is what do we do about it? That is why the President felt that it was time to get out there and mobilise all of our people who are in a position to make a contribution to the effort of tackling these challenges. When all is said and done, and if you strip all the analysis and the frills, the reality is that, unless we are able to create new jobs in a manner that would absorb new entrants as well as reduce the number of people who end up being dependent on social grants, the situation will only get worse and become a vicious cycle as it were.
That is why the social dialogue is aimed at ensuring that all hands on deck can be mobilised for the effort of improving the economy because the investors also follow how we are rated, and so on. We have got to address all the messages as well and begin to speak more positively. We have also been in touch with the editors in the National Editors Forum, so that we should try to communicate positive messages.
There are areas in which we are doing fairly well. Life expectancy has gone up and the mother-to-child transmission of HIV and Aids has been truncated, so there are those positive areas where we have been making better progress, but with regards to the elimination of poverty, it is only through economic growth that we will be able to address that issue. The New Growth Path and the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission, PICC, assist with efforts of ensuring that we pull out of this rut. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 19
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 370
QUESTION 18
Question 19:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Acting Speaker, the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa clearly sets out the powers of Parliament, the President and the national executive and the courts. We are confident that each of these bodies respect the powers assigned to them by the Constitution, as well as the powers and responsibilities of the other two arms of government.
The Constitution, in section 42, enjoins Parliament to ensure that it plays its role in scrutinising and overseeing executive action. With regard to the judiciary, government continues to enact legislation and implement programmes to enhance the independence within the context of the separation of powers embedded in the Constitution.
One of the significant safeguards against encroachment is the Constitutional Court, which, as the highest court in the land, is entrusted with the important function of ensuring that each branch, including the judiciary itself, does not overstep its boundary.
The Constitution Seventeenth Amendment Bill and the Superior Courts Bill, which are currently being considered by this Parliament, are the latest legislative measures introduced by government with a view to strengthening the judicial arm of the state to exercise this delicate act of balancing the interplay among the branches of state.
These Bills in the main seek to provide a constitutional basis for a separate judicial governance framework under the Chief Justice as head of the judiciary, to give full effect to our separation of powers which is essential for the rule of law.
Pending the finalisation of these Bills, the President has, through a proclamation published in August 2010, declared the Office of the Chief Justice as a separate entity from the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, and thereby paving the way for the envisaged judicial governance framework.
I am pleased that Parliament approved the code of judicial conduct in August this year, which was published in the Government Gazette on Thursday, 18 October 2012. The code will go a long way in ensuring that the judiciary is responsive to the needs and aspirations of a democratic South African society. Thank you.
Nkosi S P HOLOMISA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 370
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Nkosi P HOLOMISA: Acting Speaker, Deputy President, thank you once again for giving us a clear and elaborate answer to the question. Mr Deputy President, what do you make of the situation where the Constitutional Court itself transgresses its own boundary, considering that it is the only and the last refuge of a citizen who feels wronged by other arms of state? What happens when that very last place of refuge is unable to discharge its responsibilities in terms of this separation of powers principle?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Acting Speaker, unfortunately, hon Holomisa has not given me any example an the instance where the Constitutional Court has failed to execute its own responsibility. However, if I understand the question that he did not pose, he is essentially raising the question of recourse. What happens if the Constitutional Court is approached and its response or order or award still does not satisfy an aggrieved party? What recourse does such a party have?
Hon member, I think I can leave that to the practitioners who obviously, from practical experience, will have to contribute towards the jurisprudence of our country. It is a question that needs to be debated further as to whether, when you have an apex court such as the Constitutional Court, there should still be recourse to another institution for relief.
Ms M SMUTS: Acting Speaker, it is clear that it is the hon Holomisa who needs guidance and not the judiciary. [Interjections.] The hon Deputy President has given him some guidance, but was much too nice about doing it.
I have been wondering ever since I saw this shocking question whether the hon Holomisa had been led astray by the thinking of the hon Ramatlhodi who called on the courts earlier this year to exercise judicial restraint or constraint, as he called it, after the DA won two cases on rationality review.
Now, I don't know because the hon Holomisa has not been brave enough to give the example of the case which he considers to be a transgression of the boundaries of jurisdiction of the Constitutional Court. He has not given an example. For all I know, it might be the DA's latest win in the highest court in the land.
The Deputy President has given him the answer. It is the Constitution that sets the perimeters of the court's power and if the executive branch ever tried to guide the courts, it would kill off the Constitution. I wonder whether ... [Time has expired.]
Mr D A KGANARE: Acting Speaker, the fact that a senior member of this Parliament is asking the Deputy President about ways and means to influence the judiciary is symptomatic of a very serious tendency in the ruling alliance. This tendency could further erode investor confidence, resulting in more job losses which will fuel unrest and destabilise our country.
The root cause of judgments against government is due to unconstitutional legislation promoted by elements in government, attempting to bypass or undermine constitutional imperatives, rather than any deficiency in the judiciary. Deputy President, that is why Cope would like you to undertake to defend and to protect the judiciary from any form of meddling, manipulation or improper influence, and direct your party's focus to understanding and respecting the principles of a constitutional democracy. The question is ... [Time has expired.]
The ACTING SPEAKER: Hon member, you don't have time for a question. Again, there was no question.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Acting Speaker, on a point of order: There was a question. There was a request from the hon member if he can confirm.
The ACTING SPEAKER: Hon member, there is one minute for a question and I allowed more than one minute. I didn't hear the question. Are you saying there was a question?
Mrs J D KILIAN: Acting Speaker, I am saying that there was a question.
The ACTING SPEAKER: What was the question?
Mrs J D KILIAN: Can the member please repeat that one sentence where he asked if the hon ... [Interjections.]
The ACTING SPEAKER: Hon member, no. Please, sit down.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Acting Speaker, I have raised on a point of order. He asked the Deputy President if he can commit himself to stop further meddling. That is what he asked.
The ACTING SPEAKER: No, he didn't ask that.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Acting Speaker, in that case I would ask you to look at the record of the House and make a ruling on the matter because your current interpretation is incorrect.
The ACTING SPEAKER: Hon Deputy President, did you hear that question?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, it was preceded by a long preamble and perorations. However, yes, indeed, we are all committed to protecting and defending the Constitution. All of us in the executive and this side of the House are committed to that. We remain committed to that. We will continue to protect and defend the Constitution. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can I remind members that the time allocated to questions is one minute. I have been really fair. Most members, in fact, all members, have gone beyond the one minute. But I don't think it is fair when members spend that whole one minute and more just on statements and then they want to ask a question after that one minute.
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 370
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Acting Speaker, Mr Deputy President, my question is whether you would kindly respond to my comment. I read through the question of Nkosi Holomisa. It is an important one, suggesting that there is still a major gap between constitutionality and reality and between legality and reality. We moved much further ahead in our constituency in adopting the Constitution. We need to bring our constituency to constitutional order. The Constitutional Court is bound by its own mandate to implement the Constitution as it is.
So, in rephrasing that question, if I understand the subtext correctly, what are you doing Mr Deputy President, what is your administration doing to bridge the gap between constitutional reality and to make the entire South African constituency become more au fait with the Constitution, and transform the reality in a way that the judgment that the Constitutional Court will render and continue to render in compliance with the Constitution is not being felt by the people of South Africa as being inimical to the way they feel, their culture and tradition?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Short of really running seminars, conducting workshops and unpacking and explaining judgments of the Constitutional Court, the best way to close that gap is to ensure that the general populace understands the Constitution, understands the principle of constitutional review and understands that the three arms of the state work independently but in a complementary fashion to safeguard our democracy. That is an ongoing process that all of us should engage in.
I do know that the Chief Justice is very keen to ensure that. That is why his office is now being established with an administration of all the courts that have been separated from the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. It is precisely also to create capacity, over and above and outside of the law schools and all of that, to ensure that the Constitution is well understood by all citizens. Thank you.
Nkosi S P HOLOMISA: Order! [Interjections.] Acting Speaker, on a point of order: The Deputy President indicated that he would have been better advised if I had presented him with an example on my follow-up question. Would you allow me to give that example?
The ACTING SPEAKER: No. Hon Holomisa, you had your time for a supplementary question.
Nkosi S P HOLOMISA: Yes, I did, but the Deputy President indicated that he would have answered my question better if I had given him an example.
The ACTING SPEAKER: Not now, later.
QUESTION 280
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 371
QUESTION 19
Question 280:
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, we are currently finalising an assessment of protest marches as part of profiling the municipality in terms of the local government turnaround strategy implementation - in this regard responding to the factor of accelerating service delivery. We will accordingly produce a report by the end of November.
Guided by the trend analysis and through our own experiences as we engage with protesting communities, we have found that most of the grievances that the people raised on average relate to the following areas: Electricity-related questions such as allegations of high tariffs; the long waiting time for access to and the use of electricity consumption in some areas; sanctions on this as a default mechanism for cost recovery; water supply shortcomings; housing delivery questions relating to long waiting time or allocation; administration anomalies; unfinished projects; quality leadership of municipalities; and in some instances, questionable responsiveness. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mrs D F BOSHIGO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 371
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mrs D F BOSHIGO: Acting Speaker, thank you hon Minister for your response, we acknowledge that your department is busy with the assessment. We request that this report be submitted to the portfolio committee early in January and, while this report is being processed, what measures is your department putting in place to avoid further occurrences? I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Acting Speaker, thank you very much, certainly we will provide the report to the portfolio committee. And then, on the issue of what we are doing at the moment, I want to indicate that on a case by case in areas where we deal with questions of protest, we respond according to the issues indicated. And, of course, on a day to day basis in terms of our routine functions we are working together with all sector departments in the areas where questions that are raised have to be addressed. So, that is what we continue to do on a day to day basis. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr J H STEENHUISEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 371
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Madam Acting Deputy Speaker, thank you Minister for your answer. Many of these frustrations, which you have identified as a root cause of service delivery protests seem to come to basic municipal infrastructure service delivery. So, surely, it must be a major concern to you, Minister. The declining rate of municipal infrastructure grant spending over the last four financial years, which has seen municipalities where some of the most deprived and poverty struck communities, with least a household excess to basic services, sending hundreds of millions of rand back to central government on an annual basis. And so, I would like to ask from you today in the House: What measures you are going to put in place, apart from the workshops and meetings which you referred to the annual report, to address this to ensure that municipalities are spending this money and that communities are getting this infrastructure laid there on having access to the basic services which had been promised for the last 14 years? [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: We decided to have a dedicated approach profiling each municipality so that when we respond to the challenge in a particular municipality, we do not do that in a generalised manner since there is no one size fits all intervention to deal with issues related to challenges in a municipality. We continue to do that so that, as the hon member has indicated, in the area of spending, we focus on each municipality, provide dedicated interventions, mindful of the fact of course, that in terms of section 154 of the Constitution, we deal with these matters jointly with provincial departments. So yes, it is true. Issues that are being raised by communities are issues that are of concern, which is why we have decided to have a dedicated focus to then say, let us deal with these five priority issues. If we do them, we will find a way where the community will have confidence and derive some satisfaction out of the activities. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr P F SMITH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 371
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mr P F SMITH: Acting Speaker, Minister, I am not very sure that your investigations will serve much purpose. This is because three years ago, when this country was convulsed in service delivery protests, the President sent Ministers out all over the place, Parliament set up an ad hoc committee, which sent us all over the place. I went to the North West and the situation was dire, but since then it got worse.
If you look at the number of municipalities under administration, the SIU investigating corruption, non-submission of financial statements and all these indicators, things have gone downhill despite the investigations at the time. This is despite your turnaround strategy, which is delivering nothing in the North West. So my question would be whether your, certainly in respect of the North West, investigations are a waste of time. Your government's ability to address the matter suggests you are incompetent in doing so and that you do not have a solution of what is going on in that province. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, the hon member says he is not convinced that the investigation will lead us to a situation where we address the problems. I am convinced and the hon member, as a member of the portfolio committee will understand that we deal with issues for what they are and not in a generalised fashion, as I have indicated.
The case of the North West, there are quite a number of areas where we are embarking upon. I understand that some of the issues might not have the hon member convinced. However, let me state that, when conduct an investigation you should not generalise; you become focused and, chances are, you will be responding accordingly.If you embark on a generalised investigation you will have serious problems.
On the issue of the North West, we will be presenting a report to the portfolio committee or through the portfolio committee discussing how we will deal with those issues. These assessments are part of the work that will deal with those issues for what they are, point to point. Thank you very much.
Ms C K K MOSIMANE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 371
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Ms C K K MOSIMANE: Deputy Speaker, independent scientific research is always the best and no government can address the needs of the people without that. However, the statistics maintained by the SAPS indicate that since 2009 and 2010, crowd unrest incidents have increased from 718 in that year to well over 1000 incidents per year since then.
The mood of citizens has therefore changed from patience to dissatisfaction, as shown by posters carried by protesters displayed by the SA Broadcasting Co-operation, SABC, and other media. It has become clear that South Africans have become impatient with the following: The ANC government's lip service to rooting out corruption in all spheres of government, but in particular in local municipalities; shoddy work done by service providers from road construction to housing construction; obscene salaries paid to municipal managers and officials who treat people with disdain; and jobs for pals and contracts for the politically connected. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Acting Speaker, hon member we use lessons learnt from independent research and our own investigations, and we don't undermine any findings that has to do with issues of local government. That is why we are saying we combine all sources of information that would deal with these issues. However, we don't only read about how people feel, we have to engage the people so that we come to understand exactly what those issues are. That is why I indicated that we are dealing with this investigation. Thank you very much.
QUESTION 282
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 372
QUESTION 280
Question 282:
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Acting Speaker, hon Moloi-Moropa, the question you asked is a question that has been on my mind for a very long time. I have been trying to track down the Minister of Higher Education and Training in order for us to solve this matter amicably. I have not found him in any of the places that I frequent. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Acting Speaker, please protect me, because I want to suggest to the Minister of Higher Education and Training that Public Service Education and Training Authority, PSETA, resorts under public administration. I did not know how it came to be under his mantle until I did some research for this particular question and I discovered that, while most God-fearing people were in church, one Sunday in November 2009, the Minister of Higher Education and Training issued a statement and said, "from Sunday 1 November 2009 the Department of Higher Education and Training assumes responsibility over skills development and training in government." He said this on a Sunday. [Laughter.]
Most people came back from church to discover that the skills training sector belongs to the Minister of Higher Education and Training. I am in consultation with him and in the meantime, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, we are making do with what we have.
We have established very collegial relations between PSETA and the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, to see that we can work together and get ourselves out of this situation. And we have moved away from the original concept of Palama providing programmes to the public sector. We are now establishing Palama as a national training college for public service.
I know that this is a matter that hon Marais is also very concerned about, because he asked a similar question. I therefore have resolved that I will provide the portfolio committee with the full detail of where we are in relation to this restructuring of Palama.
In relation to the 1% levy that you are asking which is expected from PSETA, I have crafted a Cabinet memo which will be submitted very soon to ensure that all government departments provide us with the 1% that is required so that we can ensure that Palama has the necessary resources. Thank you.
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 372
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
Mrs J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Acting Speaker, thank you for the response, hon Minister. While there will be negotiations to return the PSETA that was taken on a Sunday, we would like to find out from the Minister if the same Palama has been promising to embark on a Palama indaba, where they will be co-ordinating various stakeholders to engage and discuss how to co-ordinate the skills development in the country. It has taken a bit of time, but with your explanation that we are now moving to the school of government, possibly that is coming together. We would like to know, as this House, what plans have been put in place to move towards that school of government; how ready are we to move along this school of government and possibly also taking on board the Palama indaba that should take place as promised? Thank you.
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: As of October this year, Palama has begun to restructure itself, first by providing a compulsory training course for all public servants. In October 2013, we expect that the school of government will be fully functional. As we speak, Palama is in the process of ensuring that that does take place. We have also invited Members of Parliament to come for some training at the school of government. Perhaps the first month of the operation of the school of government will be dedicated to Members of Parliament, just to test the efficacy of the school of government. We think that we will be on course and will be operational by October next year. Thank you.
Mr S J F MARAIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 372
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
Mr S J F MARAIS: Acting Speaker, Minister, thank very much for your answer. Minister, can you tell us, in terms of both Palama and PSETA, what are the benchmarks, criteria or standards for training and building capacity of public servants, and whether these two institutions have proper curriculums and a syllabus developed for training the ideal public servants? Thank you.
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Acting Speaker, I just got a note which says that I am not pronouncing the school properly, it is not Phalama but Palama. I think the note probably came from the Deputy President. [Laughter.]
Acting Speaker, some of the responsibilities of Palama are: to ensure that the sector skills plan are in place; that the learning programmes are worked out; that workplace skills, plans and allocating grants are provided; that education and skills development programmes are monitored; and that learning programmes are providing themselves.
We have been able to do this in conjunction with Palama, because, as you know, Palama's responsibility was that of a service provider, outsourcing the work that would otherwise be done by the school of government to the various institutions of higher learning. What we are doing now is to restructure that and use PSETA as a conduit to ensure the accreditation of all those courses that we are currently working on to ensure that they are accredited with the SA Qualifications Authority, SAQA.
As we are in this transitional phase it will be very difficult to answer your question specifically, except that we are working with them to ensure that their role is now that of making sure that our qualifications standards are acceptable and accredited. Thank you.
Mrs C DUDLEY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 372
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
Mrs C DUDLEY: Minister, a lot of what I was going to ask has been answered. I was going to ask if you are confident that human resource development in the public sector is functioning effectively; and if not, what challenges remain? But you have made it clear that the Minister of Higher Education and Training is, in fact, your challenge. What, in your opinion, still needs to be done to ensure that the two entities function optimally?
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: I will have a meeting with the Minister of Higher Education and Training and perhaps invite the hon member to that particular meeting. I think that I have dealt with this matter; we are not meeting the target. One of the first things that we did, which I reported to the portfolio committee as a development in our negotiations with unions, was an acceptance by unions that it is absolutely important for everybody who is in the Public Service to undergo compulsory training programmes. We realised that we were falling short of our own requirements and we were not meeting the standards that we have set ourselves. Hon Acting Speaker, I think the question that the hon member is asking has been covered. Thank you.
Mr N SINGH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 372
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
Mr N SINGH: Acting Speaker, madam Minister, I trust that you find the hon Minister of Higher Education and Training soon, otherwise there will have to be a price tag on his head or we will have to use a lost and found column. From your wide experience in government and from the places you frequent, is there a notion that communists believe that they can take the law into their own hands? Because the responsibility that you cite, Madam Minister, should, by decree, be of the President of this country. He assigns responsibilities and maybe we need to remind the communists that we are living in a constitutional democracy. I just want to know what your comments are to that, Madam Minister. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: That's below the belt. [Laughter.] That is a comment way below the level I operate at. [Laughter.] Hon Singh, the shift of the responsibility for the Setas to the Department of Higher Education and Training came about from the restructuring of the education department and the split between basic education and higher education.
Now, I did not understand how this PSETA, which is responsible for the public service and training programmes of the Public Service, would have fallen under this department. But I woke up too late to do anything about it. I am quite convinced that the necessary steps were taken, the necessary law made provision for this and that this was a proclamation from the President. What alarmed me is that it happened when most people, like you and I, were in church. Thank you.
QUESTION 299
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 373
QUESTION 282
Question 299:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: House Chairperson, members know that from the beginning my department has had an inadequate budget. We also had allegations of nepotism, mismanagement and fraud, which I had investigated and reported in May during my Budget Vote speech. We have worked together with National Treasury and came up with the turnaround plan for the department. We also commissioned investigations into allegations of mismanagement. We have set up a task team comprising National Treasury and my department to work on this turnaround plan.
Section 39(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, states that:
An accounting officer takes effective and appropriate steps to prevent any overspending of the vote of the department or a main
division within the vote;
We did this. We have taken the necessary steps to ensure that there is no overspending in the coming years. I receive monthly financial reports which I submit to National Treasury. Also, we ensure that no expenditure is incurred where the budget is not available. We have also ensured that the budget status is a standing topic in management committee meetings and in the Education for Social Co-operatives, Esco, so that all managers are aware of how much they have and what they can spend.
We have also ensured that there is no recruitment of staff where the chief financial officer, CFO, has not approved and confirmed the availability of the budget. National Treasury has asked the department to come up with a turnaround plan which includes the employment of critical staff in essential vacancies in finance, for example risk managers and supply chain management and also staff in core departmental functions to ensure that systems are in place and to avoid overspending. This has been complied with. We have also reported to National Treasury and they are happy with the turnaround plan.
We have also presented the turnaround plan to the Portfolio Committee on Women, Children and People with Disabilities and to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa. National Treasury and the portfolio committee are happy with our turnaround plan and they have agreed to support it. We will ensure that there is constant reporting on the turnaround plan.
Regarding investigations, we have received the report on the alleged investigations and the implicated officials in the department have been suspended and disciplinary proceedings are under way. I thank you.
Mrs H LAMOELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 373
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs H LAMOELA: Chairperson and thank you, hon Minister, for the answer. We are all aware of what the budget was for your department. I would also like to pop the question. Your department overspent its total budget whereas you spent only 40% of the target that you set for yourself.
The Auditor-General clearly indicated that your accounting officer did not take appropriate steps to prevent overspending. This resulted in R35 million spent on irregular expenditure. The bulk of this relates to overspending on compensations. Will the Minister explain what prompted the overspending on salaries and how has this helped the department to deliver on tangible benefits to vulnerable groups? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, according to the Auditor-General we have delivered 60% of our target, and not 40%. The hon member will remember that with the small budget that we had we were able to employ about 50% of the staff required. This means that the department is running on a skeleton staff. Therefore, it becomes difficult for the department to deliver. However, because of the support we receive from National Treasury, we'll be able to add more people to the department and I'm sure we will be able to improve on delivery.
Yes, the accounting officer has received a very negative report from the Auditor-General. I have written and asked her to put in writing her responses to the Auditor-General's report. I've sent her a letter as she is also implicated in investigations that have been conducted relating human resource, HR, issues.
I have already answered the issue of overspending and also what steps the department has taken to avoid this in future. I thank you, Chairperson.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 373
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Chairperson and thank you, hon Minister. Hon Minister, you have just acknowledged that your department's critical challenges included some of the issues you've just explained, for example overspending. You have alluded to the fact that one of the officials, the accounting officer, had allegedly misled and defrauded your department.
The IFP has welcomed your investigations into nepotism, mismanagement, fraud and corruption. However, you've reported to the Portfolio Committee on Women, Children and People with Disabilities that this individual, instead of being retained in your department to face the music, has simply been transferred to another government institution while your department was finalising investigations.
Minister, don't you believe that this incident sends out the message that corruption and mismanagement is condoned? As a senior member of the ANC, can you give us the assurance today that you will raise your voice strongly against what seems to be the redeployment of officials without any regard for the alleged crime that they have committed? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, wherever officials are deployed they must still account, as they are still members of the Public Service. The transfer took place before the report of the Auditor-General came out and before the report of the investigation was finalised.
It's not only the accounting officer, but the chief financial officer, CFO, also resigned before the Auditor-General completes the audit. We spoke and asked her to stay on, but she jumped ship. There's no way that I can stop officials if they decide to resign. They have the right to do so, but we are following up on any offence that has been found through the investigation. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr T D HARRIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 373
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mr T D HARRIS: Chairperson, the Minister refers to her inadequate budget. I was interested in this and read in her annual report that her department managed to spend R4,5 million on catering last year; R2,6 million on entertainment; and R18,8 million on travel and subsistence. So, she spent one rand out of every five rand the taxpayer gave her department on parties and travel. My questions are: Firstly, how could the Minister allow spending on parties and travel to reach such levels? Secondly, will she commit to shift her department's spending on parties and travel to real delivery in next year's budget?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Chairperson, my department has never had a party. It commemorates important historical days to the people of South Africa, for example National Women's Day. Parties like the DA have no history; have no heritage; and abanazinyanya abanamadlozi [they do not have ancestors]. We are proud of OR Tambo, Chris Hani, Lilian Ngoyi, Dora Tamana, Charlotte Maxeke and Solomon Mahlangu. We are proud of them. We are going to make sure that our children know their history; know who their leaders are; know where they come from; and know how their freedom and democracy was won by their mothers, grandmothers and forefathers ... [Interjection.]
Mr T D HARRIS: House Chairperson, on a point of order: Actually, I would like you to rule on whether or not the Minister is misleading the House in her statement that this party, on the other side of the House, has no history considering that Helen Suzman was sitting here all those years ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, you wanted to raise a point of order and not to make an intervention. I'll make a ruling. Hon member, the reference is made to the party and not to a person in the House. So, she is in order.
QUESTION 285
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 374
QUESTION 299
Question 285:
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: Chairperson, as hon Sithole indicates in the question, to get the country onto a different trajectory will require a very serious intervention. From the diagnosis we looked at two particular issues: The first is that too few South Africans work; and the second is that the educational outcomes for the majority of South Africans is way suboptimal.
So the focus of the plan is very much on both human and national capabilities. Human capabilities will only result from serious interventions in a range of areas such as education, skills, access to adequate health care, access to a decent built environment and access to a range of public services. At the same time we have to focus continually on both the capacity and the capability of the state and ensure that we will professionalise the Public Service, and that public servants are immersed in the development work required, but shielded from unnecessary and undue political interference. That is basically what the plan is built around, and I think it is an answer to the question by the hon Sithole.
Ms S C N SITHOLE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 374
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION
Ms S C N SITHOLE: Chairperson, thank you hon Minister, for a very good reply, but I just want to know what is it that you are going to do to actually help us, as South Africa, mitigate the effects of the Eurozone problems?
IsiXhosa:
UMPHATHISWA WEKOMISHANI YOCWANGCISO YESIZWE KUBONGAMELI: Mna andazi [Kwahlekwa.]
English:
I thought the plan is about the development needs of South Africa. Fundamentally important in this context is to change the way in which interaction between people and the government happens. The idea that people sit around and wait for government to act has to change quite fundamentally. The focus is largely on active citizenship and leadership. So, when the hon Sithole asks what we will do for her, it is wrong. In fact, all of us as members of this House should be actively involved in leading a programme for active citizenship and demonstrating to people that they themselves must be involved. Government can create an environment, but people must be involved themselves, failing which there will be no development in this country. You can have handouts, but you can't have a participatory development programme as it is desired by the Constitution. Thank you.
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 374
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF: Hon Minister, the successes and the correct implementation of the National Development Plan, NDP, is vital for economic growth. Now, to assist that, we are going to need Foreign Direct Investment, FDI. In the United Nations report that was released yesterday, Foreign Direct Investment tumbled by 43,6% in South Africa in the same period compared with last year. It rose by 5% in the rest of Africa. It's clear that we will face more competition with our neighbouring countries. We need to solve the challenges outlined in the NDP. Are you comfortable, hon Minister, that there will be consistency after 2014 to make sure that we retain the momentum of the NDP?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: Chairperson, consistency is a multifaceted issue. I do not think that you can use a single indicator like FDI flows, because what you will see across the world is that it happens in fits and starts. In the current downturn, there are no consistent flows. You can look at the numbers from countries like India and Brazil; they would reflect trends not dissimilar to our own.
What is happening on the African continent is that new mining areas are being opened up, especially in oil and gas. That kind of exploration attracts a lot of FDI because countries can extract and merely pay for the extraction without having to make a very significant investment in people or infrastructure beyond the pittance frequently.
It is engaging with these kinds of issues that requires of us to take a very broad approach to economic development. I think we have to be in there and contest to try and maximise the attraction of FDI flows because we have a shortfall between our development needs and our savings ratios. But that is something we have to work out consistently and I do not think that a single indicator would provide all the answers to us. Thank you.
Mr N SINGH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 374
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION
Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, sine qua non in us ensuring that the targets set up by the National Planning Commission, and economic growth becomes a reality, is having a capable public administration in place. Now, to use hon Koornhof's words:
Are you comfortable that we have that capable public administration in place now that could assure investors that there isn't this kind of bureaucracy, red tape and corruption that persist in our community? And what do you suggest needs to be done?
I know that you can say I am passing it on to the Minister for the Public Service and Administration seated here next to me, but I would like to know what your answer would be to this question, hon Minister.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: The Minister for the Public Service and Administration offers to take up your question, hon Singh. I think the commentary in Chapter 14 of the Plan, which deals with the capable developmental state, is in fact a full commentary in support of the observation by the Planning Commission that indeed the Public Service does not meet the highest standards of professionalism for a whole range of reasons which are articulated. What is very important is that we take the steps articulated, including, making the public service a career of choice. Therefore, we must attract young people fresh out of university and ensure that there is a lot of competition for jobs in the public service.
We must also embark on continuous upgrading of skills which is where institutions like Palama – am I pronouncing that correctly? - come in to ensure that it is not just doing induction, but the skills development of public servants has to be an ongoing issue. We can then design the systems to ensure that we can construct an adequate interface between the administration and politics, because politics will always be part of government. As the plan says, we must ensure that interface operates optimally. There are proposals about strengthening the Public Service Commission, PSC, also and a proposal that needs to be tested about creating a new administrative head in the Public Service. There is a lot of focus on how we reconstruct the Public Service to ensure high levels of accountability and that also, - the plan does not deal with it but also requires – jacking-up Parliament in the way in which we all interact and hold each other accountable to ensure that democracy benefits from the fact that more of us are deeply committed to ensure that the focus is measured in the improvement in quality of life of all our people.
Mr T D HARRIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 374
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION
Mr T D HARRIS: House Chairperson, this is a good plan. It was tabled by the ruling party. It is supported, as far as I know, by every single opposition party. My question is: When will it be implemented? Because there is another policy that was tabled by the ruling party and supported by every opposition party in the House. It is called the Youth Wage Subsidy. Two and a half years ago that was tabled, it has not been implemented. Firstly, can the Minister give me three concrete examples of where an idea in this excellent plan is starting to appear in government's delivery record?
Secondly, can he commit that ideas from this plan, and in fact the plan in its entire coherence, will start to appear in next year's budget starting in February 2013. [Applause.]
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: Excuse me, what are you applauding, sir? [Laughter.]...I think we must ask the hon Harris to relax, exhale and wait for 24 hours in this House, and then he might hear something if he ever listens, but that is another issue. In respect of the implementation of the plan it is ongoing. There has got to be a lot of experimentation, because – sorry, I don't know why you are shaking your head – there are no silver bullets in development. We are talking of a programme of transformation which requires very detailed changes in the way things happen and our work – sorry, excuse me; don't disrupt me when I am speaking. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: You see, our discussions are at this stage with provinces and the cities, because that is where transformation will be driven from in addition to national government.
There has to be a lot of implementation changes in respect of our discussions with some of the provinces. Some of them will introduce changes to Early Childhood Development and link it up into the education chain; others will tackle the urbanisation programme. The letter I got from the Premier of the Western Cape Province asks for issues relating to youth employment, and issues relating to crime in townships.
It is by tackling things differently that we will drive the changes. You watch and engage yourself in the process and not just spectate the process, and then you might understand that development is actually exceedingly hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail. You will learn in the process, hon Harris. Thank you.
QUESTION 288
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 375
QUESTION 285
Question 288:
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, the change of culture of the Public Service that we seek is a change to a culture of focusing on results. Historically, the dominant culture in the public service has been one of focusing on activities without sufficient regard for efficiency, effectiveness, outcomes and impact of those activities. Government needs to use monitoring and evaluation to find ways of working smarter to obtain better value for money and to improve service delivery. Specific lessons per outcome, which have been learned from the first year of implementing the delivery agreements, are described in the Mid-Term Review Report. The delivery agreements are currently being reviewed and revised to take into account these lessons. It has always been our intention for the delivery agreements to be revised periodically on the basis of learning from monitoring and evaluating their implementation. Some of these revisions are complete and others are still in progress. I thank you.
Mrs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 375
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson, I would like to ask the hon Minister, whereas he was brutally frank in his mid-term review about what the shortcomings were in the Public Service, which is the delivery arm of government, and whereas he referred to the change of culture that we require in the country, we would like to contend as Cope and actually need the change of heart in the Public Service, as well. With regard to the whole principle of Batho Pele - putting people first, service delivery to every body - not a lot has come of that. In fact, people are complaining daily. Can the Minister give us an indication of what active steps will be taken? If we need to follow the road, as hon Minister Manuel of the Planning Commission has indicated, it must start from the municipalities, provinces and work up, then we are in for a very serious surprise because we do not think that the capacity is there to transform the way of operating on the basis of having activities instead of having performance delivery. We don't see the performance delivery agreements actually resulting in the necessary action. Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: The performance or delivery agreements that exist in the public sector, are meant, among others, to implement the programmes of government, but at the same time provide us with information which will enable us to improve whatever needs to be improved. It is not the only programme that we are engaged in. There is also the question of monitoring that we do physically on the ground: moving from one area to the other and from rural areas to most of the serviced points throughout the country, and identify those areas that we think have problems including, amongst others, how the Public Service responds to the basic issues that people raise. We do work out plans jointly with the relevant departments or those service points for improvement in the manner in which services are being delivered to our people.
We believe that in areas where we have been able to do that, there have been significant improvements practically in the manner in which the Public Service itself interacts with society, not only with the paperwork that we do, but also the direct contact between the Public Service and the citizenry at large.
So, we believe that the programmes which we are putting in place in the various aspects of the work we are dealing with are beginning to bear fruits and will be able to address the issues that you are raising. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 375
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY
Mr M HLENGWA: Chair and the Minister, in any situation, if you are expecting that those who are in the Public Service to be effective and efficient, government, at the very least, has got a duty and responsibility to ensure that resources are readily available for those in the Public Service. What I want to ask the Minister is, is he satisfied that government departments are making those resources available when we have instances like in Limpopo where textbooks are not being delivered? So, with regard to that type of approach of government in ensuring that resources are there, is he in a position now to tell us whether those resources that are available are being used optimally, efficiently and effectively by the Public Service; and if not, what plans are there to remedy that situation so that we can actually be in a position where the culture of working is at a satisfactory level? Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Yes, Chairperson, it is obvious from the various angles that you look at that, at any given time, we would never have sufficient resources to tackle all the problems that we have, but we are confident that for the programmes that government had set itself to implement, the resources should be made available, not by us, but by Parliament and the various provincial legislatures. Even though those resources become available, the most important issue is how efficiently those resources are being expended in order to address issues which are there.
To that extend, we have repeatedly said in our work that we do jointly with the various arms of the state, the Auditor-General, Department of Public Service and Administration, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, as well as other transversal institutions like the Public Service Commission, that we must begin to ensure that the resources, which are made available, are used appropriately and efficiently. As it is not a once-off thing and not something that you could say it can be achievable in one day, we are beginning to see improvements in a number of areas where those things are being done.
What we are happy about is that now we are able, in good time, to identify areas where there are likely to be problems and begin to make significant and relevant changes, which are going to improve the situation. We are confident that, with time, we will be able to improve those situations. Thank you.
Mr T W COETZEE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 375
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY
Mr T W COETZEE: Hon Chairperson, Minister, can you please give us an indication as to when do you think your department is going to start with the performance management and evaluation at the local government level?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: We did indicate in our Budget Speech and the various statements which we have made that, amongst other things, particularly with regard to the efficiencies and the management practices of departments, that after having done the 103 out of 158 of the national and provincial departments, we will be done with the pilot phase of local government. We believe that by the beginning of this month, we will begin to deal with issues at local government level in all municipalities and actually present the report at the end. Thank you.
QUESTION 293
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 376
QUESTION 288
Question 293:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, the protection and promotion of the rights of children with disabilities fall within the ambit of all three sectors of the Department for Women, Children and People with Disabilities. Disabled children are children first, and the department has mainstreamed the promotion and protection of the rights of children with disabilities in both our children's rights advocacy and monitoring activities.
Primary caregivers of disabled children tend to be mothers and grandmothers whose rights and opportunities are impacted on significantly in communities where disability carries a stigma. Empowered mothers are able to take informed decisions which are in the best interest of their disabled children. Disabled children require specific interventions and reasonable accommodation measures to ensure that they are able to develop and participate as equal citizens within inclusive and safe environments.
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child and the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities contain specific clauses to affirm the rights of children with disabilities and ensuring as well as monitoring that these rights are promoted and protected and therefore constitute the core business of this department.
As such, the department has focused, among others, on the following activities: to co-ordinate and monitor the development and implementation of action that protects, respects, promotes and fulfils the rights of children with disabilities; to ensure that the country's second National Plan of Action for Children, as required by the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and which is currently being finalised, embraces specific measures required to ensure that the rights of children with disabilities are protected and promoted.
The department has ensured that parents' organisations are represented on fora established to develop and co-ordinate implementation of, for example, the Early Childhood Development Plan of Action. The department has ensured that reasonable accommodation measures have been put in place in all activities implemented to promote child participation, thereby ensuring that children with disabilities have a voice on these platforms created for children to speak out. Examples for the current financial year include Child Protection Week as well as the National Children's Parliament.
The department has completed a draft strategy to monitor children's rights and wellbeing that includes specific indicators pertaining to children with disabilities. The department has focused also on specific areas of vulnerability for children with disabilities, for example, drawing attention to the lack of safe and conducive conditions at a large number of special schools as we are concluding our survey of special schools. The department has engaged with the Departments of Social Development and Basic Education, including provincial counterparts where relevant, on the unsafe conditions of boarding schools attached to some special schools. The department has engaged the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and the South African Police Service on the sexual abuse of young girls and boys with intellectual disabilities.
The hon member will find additional information contained in written responses submitted to the House by myself during this year to Questions 93, 94, 727, 1833, 1891 and 2321. In the interest of time, I will not repeat these. These refer to inclusive education ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 376
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon Minister for the work being done in this regard. According to the World Health Organisation, WHO, people with disabilities have poorer health outcomes, lower education achievements, less economic participation and higher rates of poverty than people without disabilities. So, on the subject of children on which you focused, South Africa is home to over 300 000 children with disabilities with an estimated 165 000 children with disabilities who are not able to access education. Has your department managed to monitor whether children with disabilities are being integrated into the Millennium Development Goal programme targets for universal basic education for all children? What would the relevant details be there? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, I have already alluded to the audit that we are doing on special schools, working with the Department of Basic Education. As I said earlier, we are promoting an inclusive education policy which is being spearheaded by the Department of Basic Education.
We are also promoting the Universal Access Campaign which ensures that people with disabilities, including children with disabilities, have access to all government services including education. At the moment, we are visiting provinces and addressing premiers and MECs in the various provinces to ensure that we raise awareness about the situation of children with disabilities, about the status of special schools in various provinces and to ensure that we commit them to be part of the programme and the movement to promote, respect, protect and fulfil the rights of children with disabilities. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mrs H LAMOELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 376
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
Mrs H LAMOELA: Chairperson, the hon Minister talked about the legacy of Chris Hani, Oliver Tambo and Ruth First, but according to her department's overspending, the only legacy her department is honouring is fruitless and wasteful expenditure, unauthorised expenditure, and travel and subsistence. The recent Child Gauge report showed that South African children are extremely vulnerable. About 60% of our children are considered poor. The crime statistics showed that 25 805 sexual offences were committed against children under the age of 18 years. In the last financial year, your department spent only 7%, which is R12 million of the total budget, on the programme for children's rights and responsibilities. This is understandable, as there was not much left after you used 40% of it to fund your bloated administration.
Your department has a mandate to protect vulnerable citizens. What were the outcomes of monitoring and implementation done by your department to improve the plight of South Africa's children? Have you justified your existence ... [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, I think the hon member is completely lost. I think she needs an orientation programme by the DA. [Interjections.] She does not understand the work of this department, and she does not even have listening skills because this is not the question that she is dealing with. I have answered the question before, and now she is trying to put it through the window.
In terms of travel and subsistence, we have to ensure that people with disabilities come and commemorate International Disability Day. We have to ensure that they come with their escorts. If you are blind, you do not travel alone; if you are in a wheelchair, you do not travel alone. Democracy does not come cheap; it is expensive. For us to give our people, our children and people with disabilities, the opportunity to participate and have a say in the policies and the laws we are developing, they must come, and that costs money. If children must come to the Union Building in Pretoria, they must have an escort. Children from the ages of eight to 10 years old must be given the opportunity to participate. Therefore, the undemocratic DA does not understand the prescripts of democracy to ensure that ... [Interjections.]
IsiXhosa:
... abantu bakowethu bathabatha inxaxheba. Siqala ngabantwana bethu, sibamamele iimfuno zabo. [... our people participate. We start by listening to our children's needs.]
English:
I want to remind them that people with disabilities have a slogan in South Africa that says, "Nothing about us without us." Thank you, hon Chairperson. [Applause.]
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson, I just wanted to say that we really wanted to say thank you to the hon Minister for the Public Service and Administration for her presence today in the House. We understand that she is still in mourning after the very sad loss of her brother, and we really appreciate that because she is setting a very good example. It really comes from our hearts. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 300
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 377
QUESTION 293
Question 300:
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, I was in a better state before that intervention. The question has been asked by hon Marais, and it is about the state of our intervention on the shortcomings in Limpopo. Limpopo is a very peculiar case, as you all know. We don't need to go into the history of that.
So, what we have had to do as the Public Service and Administration is to, first of all, conduct a readiness exercise to understand exactly where we are in terms of the implementation of our programmes there. We further had to assess the shortages of the scarce skills that are required in Limpopo, so that when we tailor our intervention it actually addresses the problems instead of exacerbating them.
I need to say, right at the outset, that the intervention that the government has put in place for the province of Limpopo is to ensure that those government programmes that need to continue are dealt with by additional support from national government. But what we are doing now with the Public Service and Administration is to ensure that we give the necessary capacity going forward.
We can indicate right now that the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, has provided specialised training, after the identification of what the needs are, to 2 655 public servants, as well as induction courses to ensure that the public servants in Limpopo are given the necessary essential elements and tools. We have given this to 3 171 public servants in this period.
Further than that, we have given specific training which includes advanced management development, public financial management, which is absolutely essential, and the supply chain management programmes that we provide. Beyond that, together with the province of Limpopo, we have ensured that the bursaries that are given for the scarce skills that we need for that province are upgraded. In the past, in the year 2009-10, 473 bursaries were provided. This financial year 1 105 bursaries had been given to ensure that we overcome these scarce skills.
The province has implemented 419 workplace learning programmes in this financial year to fill those gaps that we have identified. We have also ensured that we enrol more learners for Adult Education and Training Programmes to uplift the basic education in the Public Service for people who do not have matriculation certificates. Thank you.
Mr S J F MARAIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 377
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
Mr S J F MARAIS: Chairperson and Minister, we know that the problems in Limpopo are due to, among others, incompetency of especially senior staff and even heads of departments. In fact, it is also as a result of cadre deployment and ill-discipline. That has been confirmed by the National Treasury, the National Planning Commission, the Auditor-General and the Public Service Commission. Minister, have you held anybody responsible and accountable for the maladministration and malpractices in Limpopo? And what sanctions were imposed on them? Thank you.
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Yes, most of what you have indicated is now a common cause, especially after the Auditor-General's report on that particular province, and especially after the government's intervention in that province. However, we have not moved to the level where we are assessing who would be responsible for some of the failures. Perhaps, following on the Auditor-General's report, it would be possible to take that step forward. What we are concentrating on now is actually making sure that there is an intervention in Limpopo which ensures that the people are given the services that they are entitled to.
Going further from that, we might consider what you are asking and by that time we will be able to come and report to Parliament on what we are doing. Thank you.
Mr W M MADISHA: Chairperson, I am covered and I want to congratulate the Minister on having intervened in the way that she has. Thank you very much.
QUESTION: 290
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 378
QUESTION 300
Question 290:
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson ...
IsiXhosa:
...uyayikhumbula kuba akukho women's league kule ndawo ukuyo, uhleli kabuhlungu kuyabanda, amaqhekeza engqele ayakutya.
English:
Following Cabinet approval on the 5 December 2011, the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities began the process to watch the establishment of the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence. National consultative meetings including both government and civil society at all levels of government were convened to explore the scope of focus of the council and its establishment. The proposed establishment of the council was debated in a series of National Gender Machinery meetings.
This process was followed by the national consultative meeting, specifically called for gender-based violence. This meeting was inclusive of organisations from provinces and local municipalities. The outcome of the consultation gave birth to the establishment of the interim council. There was a general agreement that there is an urgent need to establish the council. The interim council comprising of departments from the Justice and Crime Prevention Cluster, including education, health and social development, was established and representatives were nominated based on the mandate of the departments and the organisations earmarked to serve on the council.
Also, provinces sent their representatives to the council. The secretariat is sitting within the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities. The interim council is inclusive of civil society, members who are working in the area of gender-based violence, women's organisations, men's organisations, religious and traditional groupings. The launch of the council will take place when all the nominated members have been vetoed. We had planned to launch in August but received advice from the Presidency that it is important that we veto all council members so that we don't make a mistake and get paedophiles,for example, as members of the council. We are therefore planning to launch the council during the 16 Days of Activism on No Violence Against Women and Children. I thank you, Chairperson.
Setswana:
Moh G K TSEKE: Ke a leboga Mmusakgotla le Tona ka karabo e o re e neileng. Ke a tshepa gore Lefapha le tlhopile batho ba ba nang le bokgoni e bile ba na le kgatlhego ya go bona gore ditshwanelo tsa bana, bomme le setšhaba ka kakaretso di a tokafadiwa, e bile maemo a tlhokofatso mo nageng ya rona a tla fokotswa.
Tlhokofatso ya basadi le bana e gola letsatsi le letsatsi. A komiti e e tla bo e eteletswe pele ke Motlatsa Tonakgolo wa naga e tla fokotsa le go ruta setšhaba ka botlhokwa jwa go tshela mmogo? Ke a leboga.
TONA YA BASADI, BANA LE BATHO BA BA NANG LE DIKGWETLHO: Motlotlegi, ke nnete batho ba ba tlhophilweng go tlhopha lekgotla leno, ke batho ba ba ikemiseditseng gape ba na le bokgoni. Ditona di tlhopile bakaedikakaretso, e leng batho ba re itseng gore ba na le boikarabelo gape ba kgona go tsaya ditshwetso tse di tla re isang kwa pele. Mekgatlo le yona e rometse Bakhuduthamagabagolo, diporesidente le batlatsa diporesidente tsa yona. Go a bonagala gore setšhaba se lebile gore mokgatlo ono o tswelele pele gape o nne le boeteledipele jo bo ikemiseditseng, jo bo tla kgonang go tsaya ditshwetso tsa boammaruri tse di lebaneng le basadi le bana mo Aforika Borwa gore kgatelelo le tshotlakako ya basadi le bana e fele. Ke a leboga.
Mrs H LAMOELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 378
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
English:
Mrs H LAMOELA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence announced in August is not the first council established to protect vulnerable groups. In fact, the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and the Department of Social Development together with the monitoring and oversight function of the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities have already established a domestic violence task team, the Intersectoral Steering Committee on Sexual Offences, the Interdepartmental Management Team on Sexual Offences and the Victim Empowerment Management Forum. I do understand clearly. The Minister must tell us how this new initiative differs from the existing task teams and committees and how she proposes to really protect our women and finally, end the scourge of domestic violence. Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
UMPHATHISWA WESEBE LABAFAZI, ABANTWANA NABANTU ABAKHUBAZEKILEYO: Benditshilo ke ndathi akamameli, ndawuphendula kudala lo mbuzo wakhe. Okokuqala, ezi ziqu athetha ngazo ngoku, ziziqu zee-officials, ziziqu ezongamelwe ngoodirector-general, DG, okanye ngoodirector bamaSebe. Ziziqu ezijongene noMthetho omnye njengeDomestic Violence Act, 1998 ukuba i-mplementwe okanye iVictim Empowerement Act, 2002 within iSebe lamaPolisa okanye iSebe lezoBulungisa noPhuhliso loMgaqo-siseko.
Apha sithetha ngecouncil eza kongamelwa nguSekela Mongameli eza kube iquka amasebe ahlukeneyo eza kube iquka iCivil Society, ukutsho oko iinkokeli zakwaLizwi, amakhosi, amaqela oomama, NGOs kunye namasebe a-relevant, ezizizo ezihambela phambili njengeSebe lezeMfundo esiSiseko, iSebe lezeMpilo, iSebe lezoPhuhliso loLuntu, onke amasebe a-relevant ajongene nokuhlukunyezwa nokucinezelwa kwabafazi. Into ekunayo nditshilo ukuba uya-opposer for the sake of opposition ukuba akwazi naye ukuba ashukume, aphume ethivini, aphume nasephepheni. Ndiyabulela.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, the time allocated for questions has expired. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard.
NOTICES OF MOTION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 379
QUESTION 290
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr P VAN DALEN: Mr Chairman, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House-
debates the state of our proclaimed fishing harbours; and comes up with solutions to improve the situation.Mr D A KGANARE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 379
Mr P VAN DALEN
Mr D A KGANARE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of Cope:
That the House debates the importance of sending the Chief Whip of the Majority Party to a political school so as to improve the efficient running of this House.
[Laughter.]
Mr G R MORGAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 379
Mr D A KGANARE
Mr G R MORGAN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of DA:
That the House-
debates the progress of international climate change negotiations since The 17th Conference of the Parties, COP 17, to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC, in Durban; and further debates expectations for The 18th Conference of the Parties, COP 18, to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC, which is due to begin in Qatar at the end of November.Mrs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 379
Mr G R MORGAN
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of Cope:
That the House debates the tone and arrogance displayed by some Ministers during Oral Questions session in this House.
Mr L L BOSMAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 379
Mrs J D KILIAN
Mr L L BOSMAN: Hon Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the Sector Education and Training Authority for Finance, Accounting, Management Consulting and other Financial Services' invitation to African learners only to apply for the National Students Financial Aid Scheme's National Loan Repayment Grant; and
(2) comes up with solutions to ensure fairness and inclusivity.
Mr M R SAYEDALI SHAH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 379
Mr L L BOSMAN
Mr M R SAYEDALI SHAH: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates mechanisms and strategies for promoting the growth of tourist arrivals from African countries, and for increasing the culture of tourism in the domestic tourism sector.
Mr B M BHANGA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 379
Mr M R SAYEDALI SHAH
IsiXhosa:
Mnu B M BHANGA: Mhlalingaphambili, kwihlandlo elizayo lokuhlala kwaLendlu, egameni leCope:
LeNdlu ixoxe ukungakwazi kukaPresidenti uZuma ukuchonga i-Arhente yeSizwe yezoPhuhliso yoLutsha, NYDA, iinyanga ezintandathu.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 380
NOTICES OF MOTION
CONGRATULATIONS TO THE WINNERS OF THE ANNUAL BUSINESSWOMAN OF THE YEAR AWARDS
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House-
notes that the 33rd Annual Businesswoman of the Year Award ceremony was recently held and hosted by the Businesswomen's Association of South Africa; further notes that these awards are intended to celebrate the achievement of women in various areas of the economy; also notes that Dawn Rowlands, the Chief Executive Officer of Aegis Media SSA, won the award for Businesswoman of the Year in the Corporate Category and Margaret Hirsch, the Chief Operations Officer of Hirsch's Home Stores, won the award in the Entrepreneurial Category; and congratulates Ms Rowlands and Mrs Hirsch on winning these prestigious awards. Thank you.Agreed to.
FIRST ORDER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 24 October 2012 Take: 381
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
REPEAL OF BLACK ADMINISTRATION ACT AND AMENDMENT OF CERTAIN LAWS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of legislative proposal of Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development)
There was no debate.
Mr L SUKA: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip, I move:
That the House, in terms of Rule 238(3), gives permission that the legislative proposal be proceeded with.
Motion agreed to.
Permission accordingly given to proceed with the legislative proposal.
The House adjourned at 17:11.
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