Hansard: Questions for Oral Reply
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 14 Aug 2012
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 141
"National Assembly Chamber Main",Unrevised Hansard,04 Dec 2012,"Take 141 [National Assembly Chamber Main].doc"
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WEDNESDAY, 15 AUGUST 2012
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
______
The House met at 15:02.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 141
Start of Day
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
Question 9:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon members, in respect of dealing with corruption, we have the laws and institutions in place, and targets have been set. So, our attention is on ensuring the effectiveness of these measures and to build public confidence. For example, our endeavour to root out corruption has necessitated that we pay great attention to eliminating weaknesses in our procurement system, which is often the source of most of the corruption we encounter.
In this regard, National Treasury is busy with the refinement and optimisation of our procurement system. Additionally, National Treasury recently published for public comment the Municipal Financial Misconduct Regulations, the aim of which is to introduce measures intended to combat corruption in the public and private sectors through advocacy, strengthening the legal and policy prescripts and frameworks and, most importantly, the implementation thereof.
Furthermore, it is well known that apart from the Special Investigating Unit, the government has established other agencies whose mandates, among other things, include combating serious commercial crimes and corruption. These include the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, the Hawks, the Asset Forfeiture Unit, the Multi-Agency Working Group and the Public Service Anti- Corruption Unit. In addition, several departments have established anticorruption hotlines to which suspected incidents of corruption are reported by members of the public.
However, the rooting out of corruption demands far more than just institutions and laws. Corruption happens when people who work inside and outside government manipulate the system for their own benefit. This happens despite the robustness of anticorruption institutions. In short, I am arguing that corruption undermines democracy and therefore, all of us, especially we who are entrusted by the public to uphold the Constitution, must work in concert to strengthen institutions and programmes designed to free our society from the scourge of corruption.
We must raise the bar in terms of accountability and monitoring of how public funds are used. We must work together to ensure that each programme of the democratic state yields quality results, thus accelerating transformation, service delivery and the building of a nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous democratic South Africa. I thank you for your attention.
Mrs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 141
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Speaker, we accept the Deputy President's personal commitment to root out corruption. However, has government not left it too late to turn this tide of unscrupulous looting of public resources? Minister Lindiwe Sisulu last week reported that two of 998 departmental officials convicted in 2009 and 2010 are behind bars. What happened to the other 996? Where do they find themselves? Have they been redeployed?
Unless there are consequences – and heads must roll. Unless there are consequences for politicians and public servants who steal money with impunity, and unless there is greater accountability by government at all levels, this country will soon be receiving the questionable status of the most corrupt country in Africa.
The Special Investigating Unit report reads like a thriller. Anybody in South Africa who wants to know what is happening in government circles amongst public servants should read this, and then they will understand why the opposition is so fiercely attacking government for its feeble approach to corrupt activities. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon Kilian. It can never too late nor inopportune to do the right thing. So, we have to tackle corruption on a continuous basis. The day that we say it is too late, it is too big a problem, and that we are throwing in the towel, we would have lost the battle. It does not matter how many good citizens remain, but they have to remain in the forward trenches against corruption. We thank the opposition for the extent to which they are able to point us to specific cases of corruption. Thank you.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 141
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Speaker, the high levels of corruption which continue to plague our Public Service not only undermine our service delivery for the poorest of our citizens, they also undermine public confidence, economic growth and job creation. At the heart of this problem is a lack of political will to tackle cronyism, to tackle corruption head on, specifically when it relates to politicians themselves. In this House, on 22 May, the hon President of the Republic stated that politicians should not be disadvantaged from doing business with the state. He also implied that since it was not illegal, the ethics of the matter should not be relevant.
Will the Deputy President please use his response either to confirm or to repudiate the statement? Does he or does he not agree with the hon President? If so, how does he justify that agreement given his own response to this House earlier this year that politicians should not benefit from public contracts? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I think there is no contradiction between my position and that of the President. The President's argument on that day was against the apparent exclusion of anybody who is remotely known to a member of the public office being excluded from pursuing any opportunity, regardless of whether they were involved in such fields or not prior to the relative assuming public office.
So, we must always try to draw a distinction between the constitutional right of South African citizens to engage in meaningful economic activity, correctly so, and the manifestation of conflict of interest. Corrupt conduct occurs when those of us who have knowledge because of the positions we hold use such knowledge for our personal advantage. There would then be a conflict of interest, and that the President does not countenance. So, the way I understood the point he was making, he was speaking to a different point and not saying that there is nothing wrong. Where there is conflict of interest, there is conflict of interest, and it should not be allowed to happen. Thank you. [Applause.]
Rev K R J MESHOE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 141
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Rev K R J MESHOE: Hon Speaker, I thank the Deputy President for his reply. It is estimated that South Africa, as a nation, has lost a staggering R385 billion since 1994 due to corruption at every level in government. In spite of proclamations issued by the President mandating the Special Investigating Unit to investigate concerns across government departments, shocking figures point to the fact corruption in the country is still increasing. As part of the solution, the Presidency should consider what opposition parties are offering as a solution. For example, the ACDP believes that if a person is found guilty of corruption, guilty of stealing and looting, that person must pay back four times what they had stolen so that those thieves would be taught that crime does not pay.
Mr Deputy President, I want to know whether the penalties that government and the courts are imposing on people found guilty of corruption are harsh enough, because if they are harsh enough, what causes corruption to continue to increase? If they are not working, why are we not trying something else? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Meshoe, my understanding is that over and above penalties imposed by the courts in cases of pilfering, corruption or embezzlement of public resources, the Asset Forfeiture Unit has the mandate and authority to pursue such individuals and strip them of all ill-begotten wealth. The instrument is in place. Greed is what makes people want to cut corners to try and amass wealth through nefarious methods. That is why we have to strengthen the arm of the law to ensure that they are brought to book timeously and, of course, that the message that crime does not pay is communicated in very concrete terms. I am not sure if government would have the authority perhaps to influence the courts to impose heavier sentences. I think the courts are capable of meting out commensurate penalties for crimes that have been committed. Thank you.
Ms A VAN WYK
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 141
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Ms A VAN WYK: Speaker and hon Deputy President, no-one committed to our young democracy and the development of our country can disagree with your answer to the question. In the light of your comprehensive answer, apart from those agencies that are reactively investigating allegations of corruption and making sure that those that make themselves guilty of corruption are brought to book, how is government involved in proactive measures through lessons learnt, best practices and preventative measures that can be rolled out to all departments at all spheres of government, in order to prevent corruption from happening? Are we also doing enough to discourage business to do business through corrupt means?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Van Wyk, indeed government has to continuously tighten up its methods, particularly with regard to the tendering system, to ensure that all potential loopholes are closed so that the system cannot be manipulated. Where such acts of corruption have taken place, in a proactive fashion, we also have to ensure that not just the public employee or public office or office bearer or official is made to account, but also the other benefactor ought to be equally made to account. That is how these acts of corruption can be discouraged in the fullness of time. However, all departments, as I indicated, do take proactive measures. They have hotlines established to ensure that members of the public and other members of staff can indicate where they detect wrongdoing and corrupt activities. Thank you.
QUESTION 10
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 142
QUESTION 9
Question 10:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the commitment that the International Monetary Fund, IMF, secured from some of its members at the G20 meeting in Mexico, in June 2012, to increase its resources by $456 billion is intended to create contingency funding in the event of further deterioration in the global economic situation. The contingency funding could be used by any of the members of the IMF to stave off the risk of another financial crisis.
South Africa's commitment to contribute $2 billion to the fund was informed by the need to promote global financial stability and prevent a downturn in the global economy which will have adverse consequences for South Africa's growth and employment prospects, given our trade and financial exposure to the Euro area and global markets. Thus, it is in our national interest to strengthen the IMF resources. The funds used for this purpose would be considered part of South Africa's foreign reserves. The funds will be invested and earn an interest and would only be drawn down in emergency circumstances. If the funds are drawn down, they will ultimately be repaid, and they will continue to earn interest over this period. South Africa's commitment is intended to promote global economic policy co-ordination and co-operation.
South Africa's participation in this resourcing exercise anticipates that all quota and voting reforms agreed upon in 2010 will be implemented in a timely manner. Thus, South Africa's resource commitment is intended to promote reforms in the governance of the International Monetary Fund, in particular, and of international financial institutions in general.
South Africa's contribution was part of $75 billion committed by the Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, Brics, group and is intended to enhance peer leadership amongst this group of developing nations. The relative contributions per country are as follows: Brazil contributed $10 billion, Russia $10 billion, India $10 billion, China $43 billion, and South Africa $2 billion.
The resource commitment by South Africa and other Brics members, in anticipation of the implementation of the 2010 International Monetary Fund reform agreement, will strengthen their leadership in advocating for the reform of the governance of the IMF. I thank you for your attention.
Mr D D VAN ROOYEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 142
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon Speaker, I am standing in for hon Tshabalala on a follow-up question, but I am not going to pose a question. I would like to acknowledge the concise response that we received from the Deputy President and express our appreciation of the fact ... [Interjections.] ... that there is commitment from South Africa to ensure that there is review of the rules governing the crisis fund. We are saying this, hon Deputy President, because in the recent past, we have seen the crisis fund being used to support the banking crisis that appears on the books of developed economies as government sovereign debt. This banking crisis is as a result of a buy-in into reckless financial market speculation. As a result, we think it is in order to review this. [Interjections.]
Mr A WATSON: Hon Speaker, on a point of order: The slot is for a follow-up question, not for a speech. The member is giving a speech. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: In terms of the Rules, a member who asked a supplementary question may make a statement or express an opinion but may not speak for more than one minute. [Applause.] Order, hon members!
Mr T D HARRIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 142
The SPEAKER
Mr T D HARRIS: Mr Speaker, the DA supports the Deputy President's explanation of the logic behind the loan. It is important that our country joins international efforts to prevent future financial crises because those crises can have a devastating knock-on effect on us. Does the Deputy President agree that if this government had conceded to Cosatu's demand that the decision must be reversed on the grounds that "it had never been passed as ANC policy and represented South Africa's misinformed neoliberal economic policies since 1994" we would have abdicated our responsibility to global financial stability? Given that Cosatu is regarded by investors as an important partner of the governing party, how does he intend managing the risk imposed by their misguided pronouncements on international finance?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, we are a democracy, and people are entitled to their opinions as long as government acts in the best interest of the country. That is what matters. Many of the investors who invest in this country, overseas investors, come from countries which have organised labour, and it is not new to them that sometimes organised labour speaks in the interest of its members in a manner that contradicts what government decides to do or a position that government decides to pursue.
We try to the best of our abilities to ensure - not only with Cosatu but with all major stakeholders – that we consult and find consensus positions. Where, like in this case, government believes that this is the right thing to do, government does act in that fashion. Thank you.
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 142
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Speaker, we accept that having joined the international financial system, we are obliged to make these types of contributions and contribute to the pool of special drawing rights. The question to the Deputy President, through you, Mr Speaker, is whether the Deputy President had an opportunity to read and apply his mind to the proposal made by the IFP quite often, lastly to the National Planning Commission, previously to Minister Patel and Minister Gordhan, for the reform of the monetary system. The Deputy President made reference to reforming the IMF, but has any thought been given by this government to the value of reforming the monetary system? For the past 100 years, the present monetary system has been based on debt-based currency rather than debt-free currency. It was established with the promise of avoiding the very type of financial crises we have had time and again at periodic cycles for the past 100 years. Is it not perhaps the case to reconsider from a South African base the need to reform the monetary system? Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I apologise for the extra few seconds used. [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, no, indeed I haven't applied my mind to the IFP's proposals in this regard. The reform of the monetary system would have to be initiated by the South African central bank, the Reserve Bank, or proposed to the Reserve Bank so that we can then engage in that discussion; otherwise, it has to be initiated, or you will have to approach Treasury in that regard to bring about the debate on that issue. Thank you.
The SPEAKER
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 143
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The SPEAKER: Question 11 has been asked by the hon Leader of the Opposition, but before the hon the Deputy President replies to Question 11, I wish to indicate to the House that the question is on a matter that also forms the subject of a discussion tomorrow referred to as the "youth wage subsidy". Having considered the procedure regarding the applications of the Rule of anticipation and recorded practice in this regard, I am satisfied that the question may be put. However, I caution members to ensure that supplementary questions and statements are limited to matters canvassed in the question, bearing in mind that the general debate is scheduled for tomorrow.
QUESTION 11
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 143
QUESTION 10
Question 11:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, Cabinet has not yet received final proposals on the implementation of the youth employment incentive. I am informed that both organised business and labour have made comments on the proposal and have raised several issues that require further discussion. The hon member would recall that the youth wage subsidy proposal was announced in the state of the nation address of 2010, whereas the Short-term Job Creation Commission was announced after the July 2011 Cabinet lekgotla.
The proposed youth wage subsidy is part of government's response to youth unemployment. The intention of the scheme is to create opportunities for the youth or first-time job seekers to gain entry into the labour market and work experience, which will improve their employability. The government was well aware at the time that it proposed the youth wage subsidy policy that it would have to be referred to Nedlac for discussions so that when it is implemented, all social partners will have been consulted and will have considered the socioeconomic impact of this policy as required by the National Economic Development and Labour Council Act, the constitutive Act of Nedlac. Once this legislative provision has been satisfied, and all social partners have participated and enriched the proposal, government will complete its processes and make the necessary announcements. I thank you for your attention.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 143
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Speaker, I will try not to flout your ruling. It has been a very, very long wait while this policy has been deliberated upon at Nedlac. We know, of course, that Cosatu has been a major player in delaying the implementation of this policy and that perhaps there are political concerns ahead of the ANC's electoral conference surrounding whether or not it can go ahead and implement. However, the reality is that this Parliament voted the Minister of Finance the funding to implement this policy, that there has been time for deliberations at Nedlac, and that this legislative body has deliberated and made a decision in this regard. There are countless examples of policies which have been pursued by the government before Nedlac has completed its deliberations; the two labour Bills which Parliament is currently considering are a case in point. They came to this body before Nedlac had reached any final decision on what the draft legislation should be.
Mr Speaker, does the Deputy President not agree that the time has now come to accept that Nedlac, Cosatu and everybody who has a stake in this policy's implementation have had a chance to make their commentary and say their say and that the time has come to do the right thing, implement the youth wage subsidy, as announced by the President and budgeted for by this Parliament? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon Mazibuko, I am advised by Minister Patel who engages Nedlac in these discussions that sufficient progress has been attained and that he will be in a position to share the details of what has been agreed to tomorrow in the debate. Thank you.
Mr D A KGANARE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 143
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Speaker and hon Deputy President, this issue of the youth wage subsidy is just one of the strategies to try and deal with youth unemployment. However, the impression we get now is that as a result of Cosatu being opposed to this policy - a policy which was announced by the President and the Minister of Finance - the policy might be aborted. Is the Deputy President able to say in this House today that this is still on track?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, yes. As I said, I have been advised by Minister Patel that he will be able to report on the progress made in this regard in tomorrow's debate. Thank you.
Mr B A RADEBE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 143
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Speaker and Deputy President, the issue of the youth wage subsidy will be discussed in this House tomorrow, and it is also being discussed by Nedlac. As the processes unfold, the report from Nedlac will eventually come back to Parliament - as an old Sesotho adage says, "Lepotlapotla le ja pudi." It means that if you rush things, you will make mistakes. Is it not right that we now take that wisdom and allow the processes be followed accordingly and then let Cabinet take a decision at the right time when all the opinions have been canvassed? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, as I have already stated, tomorrow is the day, and tomorrow shall come. The Minister of Economic Development will respond to these questions fully. Thank you.
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 143
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Mr Speaker and Mr Deputy President, the sense of having Minister Patel in charge of the youth wage subsidy gives the feeling of the fox being in charge of the chicken coop. But be that as it may, the law requires only giving an opportunity to Nedlac to express an opinion - Nedlac does not have a veto power. Is this not a matter that should be taken up by Cabinet or by the Presidency with deadlines? There is consensus on this matter in this House. We are all in agreement. This is an ANC policy which the opposition has magnanimously fully embraced. The government of this country – this Parliament - is in agreement. Somebody who is not here and is not even represented is now holding the process to ransom. Is it not the responsibility of the Presidency to say: Speak by this day, because this is an emergency, or shut up? This is a crisis. If there is no leadership on a matter of national crisis or national consensus of this nature, where can we find or see the leadership from the Presidency? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon Oriani-Ambrosini, as I said, tomorrow is D-Day, and all these questions will be answered. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 12
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 144
QUESTION 11
Question 12:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker and hon members, the New Growth Path sets a target of creating five million new jobs by 2020. We note that there is a steady rise in job creation. The Labour Force Survey shows that over 300 000 new jobs were created by the end of 2011. However, this is no cause for celebration, since we believe that there is a long road ahead, and we are thus accelerating measures to increase employment through public sector interventions as well as by assisting the private sector to create more jobs.
For example, we have streamlined key elements of the regulatory framework. Important steps in this regard include enhancements to the mining licensing and environmental impact assessment systems, the establishment of a consumer protection agency, the development of an unblocking project in the Department of Economic Development which has assisted large new employment-creating projects to overcome unnecessary bureaucratic delays, as well as continued efforts to simplify tax administration, including the acclaimed instrument of e-filing.
We have also initiated major programmes to support key economic sectors. These include the auto industry scheme, which has already led to billions of rand in new investment, the clothing and textiles scheme, which has stabilised this critical labour-intensive industry, continued support for business process services, which has already succeeded in creating tens of thousands of new jobs, and a number of programmes to bolster agroprocessing. In addition, we have expanded financing and business support opportunities for small, medium and micro enterprises.
The key driver of the job creation element of the New Growth Path is the newly adopted South African National Infrastructure Plan. This infrastructure plan will encourage employment creation in four ways. Firstly, key projects will improve the competitiveness of core industries and of opening up new opportunities for them, especially through the Durban-Free State-Gauteng corridor and the opening up of the northern mining belt, as well as security of the energy supply and upgrading the ports. Secondly, major investments will also go to increase the access of historically deprived regions to the core economy through improved roads, rail and communications as well as enhancing their productivity through investments in household and economic infrastructure and in social capital. Thirdly, construction employment for the build programme will, in itself, generate thousands of jobs. Moreover, the introduction of a co-ordinated pipeline approach should stabilise employment in the industry. Fourthly, the commitment to maintaining public investment will act as a countercyclical stimulus for the economy as a whole. In this context, the decision to maximise local procurement of inputs will ensure the greatest possible multiplier from the build programme.
Certainly, the current slowdown in the global economy, combined with the fragility of the overall recovery in Europe and the United States, remains a major cause for concern. Government is considering a range of measures to both sustain growth and to ensure the greatest possible benefits for our people in terms of employment creation in particular. These measures will include both macroeconomic and microeconomic interventions. In spite of these challenges, we remain confident that the measures we have put in place will help us to create new jobs. Thank you.
Mrs E M COLEMAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 144
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mrs E M COLEMAN: Speaker, in welcoming the response from the Deputy President, we want to ask, in light of the well-published negative impact of private companies' retrenchments on the objective of creating new jobs, what would the Presidency say on the utilisation and impact of the training layoff scheme as introduced during the global economic crisis?
Secondly, it is also noticeable that the private sector is reluctant to substantially invest in new infrastructure programmes unless government provides financial backing and guarantees. How does the Presidency plan to deal with this objective reality, given the New Growth Path's findings that most jobs would need to come to from the private sector if we are to create considerable jobs in the country? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, government, as a facilitator, creates favourable conditions for the private sector to open up new businesses as well as to invest in partnership with the public sector in order to create the requisite jobs. This is done through – if you, for instance, take the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission, PICC, with its strategic infrastructure projects. There is room for the private sector to come in because most of those projects are megaprojects which require lots and lots of capital, and that can only be done in partnership with the private sector.
The thrust of government's approach towards employment layoffs occasioned by distress still remains in place. Those companies that face challenges of job cutbacks can still appeal to government for assistance in order to ensure they retain the workers in their employ. Thank you.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 144
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Speaker, economists have calculated that, in order to create five million new jobs as envisaged by the New Growth Path, we need to create a million new job creators – that is, private sector employers and small, medium and micro enterprises in particular. However, South African entrepreneurs are stifled on a daily basis in their attempts to establish small businesses, to hire new workers, to grow their businesses and to drive the virtuous cycle of economic growth and job creation. South Africa ranks 44th in the world for ease of starting a business, and the World Economic Forum ranks us 112th in the world in terms of the burden of government regulation. The Global Entrepreneurship Monitor found that only 9,1% of eligible South Africans are engaged in entrepreneurial activity.
As the Deputy President mentioned earlier, the New Growth Path focuses on state-led interventions and public sector interventions to try and boost job creation. Clearly, the answer is that we need to foster a thriving and vibrant small business private sector. The New Growth Path does not offer any new ideas about how we can do this. So, what is this government going to do to turn the situation around, given that small business development is such an imperative part of job creation and economic growth? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker and hon Mazibuko, the creation of jobs is not only the responsibility of government or the public sector. Through the Sector Education and Training Authorities, Setas, and the Human Resource Development Council, through the creation of skills and on-the-job training, many more entrepreneurs are created. Entrepreneurs are not only created through colleges; they are actually created on the factory floor. I must say that Minister Nzimande has been leading the thrust of engaging with the private sector to create the space for the training of more young entrepreneurs. Once they have the requisite know-how, it is then easier for them to be supported in either establishing their own operations and/or working in concert with major companies. That process is not only driven by the Minister of Economic Development; it is also driven by the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform and the Minister of Higher Education and Training, particularly through the acquisition of skills. Thank you.
Mr T D HARRIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 144
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr T D HARRIS: Mr Speaker, in order to create jobs, South Africa needs to achieve rapid economic growth, but the reality is that in the two years since the adoption of the New Growth Path, we have not been able to do this. However, in this weak global economy, other developing economies are. Malaysia is growing at 4,7%, Chile at 5,6%, Peru at 6%, while South Africa is growing at only 2,5%.
The thing is that the New Growth Path, with its antiquated ideas like wage caps, a state mining company, and a state bank, has actually put us on a slow growth path, because it favours state-led growth and fails to pursue the necessary reforms that will help to unleash economic growth. Does the Deputy President agree that this government should rather get behind the market-led growth strategy of the National Development Plan, NDP, that was handed over to the President this morning?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker and hon Harris, I think the correct spirit in which we should approach this matter is really not to posit the one against the other. We have to find ways of aligning the initiatives to the National Development Plan. That is what we need to do because that's ...
Mr T D HARRIS: But aren't you mixing oil and water?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, it's not oil and water; it's alignment! [Laughter.] It is getting on board this new framework which is the National Development Plan. That is what we need to do, because you can't have the luxury of saying, well, we'll abandon everything, stop, and go onto a new path. There has to be a transition. That transition happens through alignment. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Hon D J Selau, you have the floor. [Interjections.] Are you refusing to take the floor that you have been offered? In that case, we move on. [Laughter.]
QUESTION 175
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 145
QUESTION 12
Question 175:
Question 175:
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon Speaker, my answer will be based on the original question that was submitted to me. The hon member should be aware that I have no control over who political parties meet with, whether it be Cosatu or other federations. Furthermore, I am not sure how their meeting undermines Cabinet, Nedlac, and parliamentary processes.
The Labour Relations Amendment Bill that the hon member referred to is currently before the Portfolio Committee on Labour in Parliament, and there is nothing about the law prohibiting any organisation from approaching Parliament with the intention of influencing the parliamentary process. There is nothing that warrants me, as the Minister of Labour, to take steps, as suggested by the hon member, as the Bill is before the portfolio committee. I thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Minister. I have names here on my screen. Hon Van der ... [Interjections.]
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Deputy Speaker, perhaps a follow-up question by the hon Motau first?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Motau, do you have a supplementary question?
Mr S C MOTAU
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 145
The MINISTER OF LABOUR
Mr S C MOTAU: Yes, thank you, Deputy Speaker. In view of the Speaker's earlier ruling, I would like to associate the DA with the sentiments expressed in this House yesterday. The DA deeply regrets the tragic loss of life during the recent violence at the Lonmin platinum mine in Marikana near Rustenburg. The DA extends its heartfelt condolences to the next of kin of the eight mineworkers and two policemen who perished. These deaths should not have happened at this time in our democracy when freedom of association and unionisation are guaranteed by the Constitution.
Minister, thank you very much for your response, and I will get straight to the point. The issue is very simply this: Cosatu has met with the ANC, and they have accepted and admitted that to the portfolio committee. Our concern is simply this: If we have processes that are in place, for instance in terms of Nedlac – and I will quote what Nedlac says about these things - and after these processes, Cosatu, which is in alliance with the ANC, can go and broker deals, it then, in our view, will mean that all the processes that we have – Nedlac, the public-participation processes – are in vain because Cosatu can prevail upon the ANC. The question, Minister, is this ... [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Deputy Speaker, it is clear that the hon member does not understand the public-participation process, because Cosatu and the ANC are part and parcel of the communities of South Africa, and they have the right to participate in the legislative process. As the member has said, they have even made submissions to the portfolio committee, which is their right to do so. Therefore, the portfolio committee has to do the right thing - to deliberate on the proposals, whether by the public or by Cosatu, and take a decision. So, I can't decide what kind of decision the portfolio committee should take.
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 145
The MINISTER OF LABOUR
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, I believe that you and your government will support us in condemning the violent nature of many labour protests, protests often organised by your partner Cosatu and its member organisations. We also believe that government, when dealing with Cosatu, should require of Cosatu to discipline its members to stop inciting violence, to respect the laws of this country and to respect human life, even when their majority status as a labour union comes under threat.
The question is: Will you lead a campaign to call Cosatu and its affiliated member organisations to order and for the ANC to distance itself from Cosatu until the atrocities that mark their labour protest actions are rooted out? If not, why not?
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Deputy Speaker, what the member raised has nothing to do with the question that is before this House. Therefore, if the member wants to raise a question, he must follow the processes of Parliament. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Madam Deputy Speaker, the question is about the interaction between Cosatu and government. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Kganare, I give you the floor.
Mr D A KGANARE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 145
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker, I was a little bit worried that the process, which the portfolio committee is going through, is being undermined if this meeting has already reached a decision about what the outcome of the public consultation process should be. What I want to check, Minister, is whether you were part of this meeting, if this meeting did take place. I think you have already answered that the process will be followed as normal. I just wanted to check whether you were part of the meeting.
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Deputy Speaker, I am deployed here by the ANC. If the ANC wants me to attend its political meetings, I will do so, because I am deployed by the ANC. Secondly, whether I was part of the meeting or not has nothing to do with the legislation. The worst part of this is that it is clear that the members are just speculating on what Cosatu and the ANC have agreed to. They must read the proposals that are before the committee, whether the issues that were discussed by Cosatu and the ANC were withdrawn or not. That will give them guidance, and they must not ask questions based on media reports because they have misled them. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr K B MANAMELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 145
The MINISTER OF LABOUR
Mr K B MANAMELA: Deputy Speaker, firstly, I think that we all condemn the killings that happened in Rustenburg. We must also emphasise that there is a rival union that is involved, which is not an affiliate of Cosatu. Therefore, the blame cannot be put squarely on any of the Cosatu affiliates. Also, the police are still investigating what happened at the Lonmin mine in Rustenburg. That is the first aspect. The second aspect is that the DA is the last political party to speak about violence during strikes.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order: The first comment made by the hon member has absolutely nothing to do with the question before the House. [Interjections.] It has no relevance. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Continue, hon Manamela.
Mr K B MANAMELA: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. The second aspect is that the DA has no right to speak about violence during strikes, because they are the ones who went to incite violence in front of Cosatu House. [Interjections.] The third and last point, Minister, is that there is ...
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I think the hon member is making some very unparliamentary remarks and casting aspersions on the party, and I would ask you to ask him to withdraw those remarks please. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, hon member.
Mr K B MANAMELA: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. The last point, hon Minister, is that we are aware that business has also held meetings with the ANC, and that all other sectors in society have held meetings with the ANC. We are wondering why the DA is not making a meal out this - if you are aware of such - and, of course, they have also through Business Unity SA, Busa, asked to meet with the study group of the ANC. We are aware that they have met with all the study groups of all the other political parties who are involved in this legislation.
Are you aware of the meeting between Busa and all the other political parties? Also, don't you think that it is malicious for the DA to be questioning a meeting between itself and its alliance partners? [Applause.]
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The hon Kalyan asked you to make a ruling on what the hon member said about misleading this House when he said that the DA incited violence at Cosatu House. It is quite hypocritical of him to say that when his Youth League is inciting violence in the Western Cape. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Could we allow the Minister to answer, because if there is a ruling that I need to make, I will make it later. Could we allow the Minister to respond, please?
Adv T M MASUTHA: Deputy Speaker, could I address you on this point of order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Could we just allow the Minister to deal with the question please?
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. As I have said, I have no authority to decide, when it comes to political parties, as to whom they meet with. Secondly, yes, I am aware that Busa has met with the ANC. In fact, some in the business community, I think, have even put these questions through members of the DA. But we always respond, as the Minister is deployed by the ANC. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! On the ruling that was requested, I will study the Hansard and make the ruling later. Could we move to the next question?
The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, could I also request that you also make a ruling not only in relation to what the hon Manamela said, but also on what the hon Van der Westhuizen said in accusing Cosatu of violence. So, all those statements should actually be looked into and a ruling be made on them. Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright, I will add that to the ruling.
QUESTION 137
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 146
QUESTION 175
Question 137:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Deputy Speaker, in reality, municipalities do not generally have the sufficient capacity to implement the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP. This is generally due to the lack of sufficient civil engineering skills in the country. So, the department has put in place a number of measures to assist the municipalities to implement the EPWP. The department has appointed deputy-directors based in the national Department of Public Works to the regional offices to help provide technical support to the municipalities to implement this programme.
The department also, in partnership with the Local Government Sector Education and Training Authority, has trained over 1 200 officials in the different municipalities in labour-intensive methods of construction. The department has further developed the implementation guidelines and technical briefs to help the municipalities' technical officials to implement the programme. The EPWP reporting timelines are communicated to all stakeholders, and municipalities that participate in the programme are able to report on time with the assistance of the data capturers which have been deployed by the Department of Public Works in the regional offices and the data capturers that are in the EPWP data centre.
So, the figures reported are subject to monitoring validation tests to ensure that the quality of that data conforms to the minimum requirements. Technical support personnel in the provinces also assist the collection of that particular data. So, data from all public bodies is captured in the EPWP reporting system as per the prescribed data fields and validation rules. So, validation rules are applied to the reported data during the collation, and projects that do not pass the validation rules due to poor data quality are excluded from the final quarterly reports. Thank you.
Mrs P C NGWENYA-MABILA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 146
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mrs P C NGWENYA-MABILA: Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for the response. What I wanted to check, hon Minister, is for how long the appointed deputy-directors are going to provide technical support to municipalities to enable them to implement the EPWP. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Deputy Speaker, these deputy-directors have been appointed permanently, and in some of the instances, if there is an improvement and capacity improves in that particular municipality, we are able to deploy them somewhere else. Thank you.
Mr M M SWATHE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 146
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mr M M SWATHE: Deputy Speaker and Minister, the EPWP offers people temporary job opportunities to gain some basic skills. The DA's 8% growth policy is geared towards creating permanent jobs. However, as a temporary measure, the EPWP can play a role as a stepping stone. The Department of Public Works report's strategic basis for the new EPWP grant, tabled before the committee, states that municipalities are not spending their budgets. With what you have just answered Minister, we just want to find out whether the Minister will penalise those municipalities which are not going to utilise their budgets even after the measures that the Minister has just referred to now. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Deputy Speaker, our approach is not a punitive approach - our approach is to take corrective measures. We have realised, after analysis, what the causes of nonimplementation are. That's why we are coming up with the support. So, before we can penalise, we must first help - that's what we are doing now. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P S SIZANI: Deputy Speaker, it was the previous question on jobs, not on this one.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright, I hope others are different, because we are on this list.
Mnu K P SITHOLE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 146
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
IsiZulu:
Mnu K P SITHOLE: Sekela Somlomo, angibonge kakhulu izimpendulo zikaMhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe. Ngicabanga ukuthi izimpendulo zakho zichaza izindlela ozozenza ukwenza uHlelo lwemiSebenzi eyeNzelwa uMphakathi[EPWP]lukwazi ukusebenza ezindaweni zomasipala. Uvalo enginalo uma siyobheka ukuthi omasipala basebenza kanjani ufike uthole ukuthi bagqoke ama-ovaloli amasha okukhombisa ukuthi umsebenzi komasipala awenziwa.
Uma sikhuluma ngokuhlonyiswa kwabasebenzi ngamakhono amasha [Capacity building] sibona kuzoba lukhuni kakhulu noma kungeke kwenzeka kahle ngezizathu zokuthi ngisho umnyango awusebenzi ngoba yonke indawo lapha uhamba khona kukhalwa ngoMnyango wezemiSebenzi yoMphakathi. Umbuzo okhona uthi: Yini le engenza ukuthi kungabizwa inhlabamkhosi yokuthi uhlakazwe lo mnyango, eminye yemisebenzi yawo inikezwe eminye iminyango? Ngiyabonga.
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZEMISEBENZI YOMPHAKATHI: Bab'uMatshana, okokuqala uma ubona ama-ovaloli amasha yingoba besizama ukuphendule izikhalazo zabasebenzi zokusebenze bengenazo izingubo zokugqoka. Kunezingubo ezithile okumele zigqokwe.
English:
So, it's about the issue of the rights of the workers that they need to have the protective clothing.
IsiZulu:
Okwesibili, ukuhlakazwa komnyango akukho emandleni walo ophethe lo mnyango. Ungawubuza kwabanye abantu lo mbuzo. Esikwaziyo wukuthi kunezindawo la kungasebenzeki khona, siye sazibeka lapha ePhalamende nasemakomidini lezi zindawo ezinezinkinga kodwa ngalolu uHlelo lwemiSebenzi eyeNzelwa uMphakathi sekuyasebenzeka. Yize noma kukhona nje okuncane okumele sikulungise lapha nalaphaya kodwa kusebenzeka kahle. Baningi abantu abakwazile ukuhlomula kulolu hlelo ngemisetshenzana abathe bayithola. Angeke sithi ke sesilahlela konke ngaphandle okulungile nokungalungile. Asilungise nje lapho kungalungile khona, kuthi lokhu okulungile siqhubeke nako sikubambisise. Ngiyabonga.[Ihlombe.]
Mr D A KGANARE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 146
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
English:
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker and Minister, the EPWP within municipalities which are controlled by the ANC has been used to try and get ANC members only appointed by demanding membership cards of the ANC before people get appointed. [Interjections.] No, my question is ... [Interjections.] No, that is a fact; I am not imagining things – that's a fact. My question is: Are you prepared to put an end to this so that all South Africans who are taxpayers have the same access to the EPWP to be appointed?
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Deputy Speaker, through you to the hon Kganare, I suspect that that's what happened before you left the ANC, but the EPWP is not supposed to be partisan. If we had instances, let's not generalise. Give the information so that we can intervene. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 143
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 147
QUESTION 137
Question 143:
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Deputy Speaker, the joint promotion of the three cities of Cape Town, Johannesburg and Durban under the Three Cities Alliance agreement pools the resources of these urban centres into a national partnership to promote the major urban tourism offerings of the country. In light of the previous questions to the Minister of Labour, this may create the unfortunate impression that the DA is in alliance with the ANC, but is perfectly fine. In Tourism, we would like everybody to be in alliance. As research by the United Nations World Tourism Organisation has shown, up to 80% of international tourists prefer to experience a country through its cities.
Firstly, the Three Cities Alliance aims to meet this need and attract visitors to all three of the participating cities by combining efforts and resources, yet showcasing each city's uniqueness. In addition, these three cities represent some of the anchor products of destination-south-africa.co.za and should provide visitors with a fairly balanced view of what the country has to offer.
A second objective of the Three Cities Alliance would therefore be to prevent any tourist from returning home with the skewed perception of our urban offerings. At a more practical level, this will mean that the three cities will, inter alia, co-ordinate the events calendars. This is very important, especially when it gets to seasonality, and they offer short city-taster packages, but also integrate their marketing efforts.
Mr D M GUMEDE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 147
The MINISTER OF TOURISM
Mr D M GUMEDE: Hon Deputy Speaker, firstly let me commend the three cities for working together; we say that together, we can do more and better. However, does the agreement contain clauses that will advance the broader transformation of the tourism industry in these cities; if so, how will this positively impact upon communities in these cities? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Deputy Speaker, because this is an alliance and an agreement between the three cities, I would think that the cities would be in a much better position to answer this question. However, let me say that all of us agree in the industry – the private sector, government and all three spheres of government – on the transformation sector that we agreed on in our subsector.
Tourism was actually the first sector to agree on a charter, with the full support of all the different role-players in the sector. I have to say that at first glance, people may be surprised that at a political level we have this alliance. I would like to give the assurance to Parliament that it is actually working very well. Across political differences between all the provinces and at national level, we have 100% commitment to all our decisions at Minmec and to our transformation charter. I welcome that unity of purpose.
Mrs M A A NJOBE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 147
The MINISTER OF TOURISM
Mrs M A A NJOBE: Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Minister for his response. When the Portfolio Committee on Tourism visited the Northern Cape, which is one of the least visited provinces, the provincial department responsible for tourism lamented the fact that the bigger cities, and they referred in particular to Gauteng province, which receive most of the foreign travellers coming into the country, do not share the travellers with the least visited provinces.
In this case, I refer to the Northern Cape. The Northern Cape also boasts of many tourist attractions. Does the Minister consider this a reasonable expectation by these provinces, that the bigger cities with international airports should also promote visits to tourist attractions located in the less visited provinces? If so, how do you think this can be achieved? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Deputy Speaker, the hon member is quite correct with regard to what we are experiencing with the geographic spread. Therefore, we have the specific programme that focuses on the six least visited provinces - packages that we market through South African Tourism with the co-operation of the two operators to make sure that we also attract visitors to the six least visited provinces. The most visited provinces are the Western Cape, Gauteng and Mpumalanga.
There is also the responsibility on the provinces themselves to find that unique niche. The hon member referred to the Northern Cape. I must actually commend the Northern Cape because they realised that they cannot compete in terms of what we generally market South Africa on - the so–called safari destinations, wild life landscapes – and what they did was to build themselves a reputation with regard to adventure tourism. They are doing very, very well and hosting some international events. So, there is a responsibility on the six least visited provinces to also find out what their best products are to market.
Two initiatives that I would like mention briefly from the side of the government is the Tourism Enterprise Programme - a partnership between government and the private sector to assist with advice but also funding, small, medium and micro businesses, especially in the six least visited provinces, and then the incentives programme, a few hundred million rand at the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, that will now be transferred to tourism.
The hon member may have seen that yesterday we opened the new cable car aerial way in the province of North West, a cable car right in the bushveld. About 30% of the project was done with funding from government. That is one of the initiatives to make sure that we do not only fund projects in the three big provinces in terms of tourism.
Mr S B FARROW
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 147
The MINISTER OF TOURISM
Mr S B FARROW: Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for that reply. I think one point that we will agree on is that your department is not endowed adequate resources to market South Africa effectively to the world. In my understanding, the Three Cities Alliance agreement is also subject to certain grant cuts which your department provide to them in order to try and promote their cities within this type of arrangement, or this memorandum of understanding.
When we were at the indaba in Durban this year, one thing I found very much of concern to me was the duplication and the lack of co-ordination between various spheres of government where money is going into this marketing effort and the fact that you end up with press advertisements in the Daily Dispatch, for instance where I come from, which are actually competing with each other. My question to you is: Who will monitor the co-ordination of these three cities' marketing plan to ensure equitable and fair representation of the cities and what they have on offer? Is there a common business plan associated with this business initiative to ensure that is properly implemented and monitored? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Deputy Speaker, in terms of overlap and waste and potential waste, the hon member's observation is correct. It is a concern for us as well, and we are working on that. There are two initiatives that I would like to refer to. The one is at international level. We believe that we can cut down on the marketing efforts of municipalities and provinces at international level. We believe that it is primarily the responsibility and duty of national government to market the country internationally. We don't want to exclude the provinces and the cities, and we understand it is a concurrent function. We believe that we can use our money much more wisely, and we are in discussion with all the role-players to achieve that.
We obviously want them to be at Indaba, which is our local trade show. What we want the municipalities and provinces to do is not to market themselves or to rent these quite expensive spaces. Nobody wants to visit a municipality. People want to see products, and they want to go and visit products. They should enter into contract with us to rather make that space available to product owners.
With regard to our co-operation with all the stakeholders, also the three cities, we are in constant discussion with them to ensure that even if there are cuts, we implement it wisely, treat everybody fairly and in an equal way. Ultimately, it is these players that must take responsibility themselves. Thank you.
Mr M R SAYEDALI SHAH
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 147
The MINISTER OF TOURISM
Mr M R SAYEDALI SHAH: Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, I think the memorandum of agreement that has been signed between these three cities will go a long way if implemented correctly. It will go a long way in attracting a substantial segment of the world's urban travellers.
However, I must warn that there are certain impediments that may frustrate the desired outcomes as envisaged within the memorandum of understanding, and I think one of them, if I may identify it, is the huge landing costs of airlines at these major airports. How do you intend to address these high landing costs? It is one thing to invest money in marketing the three cities, but on the other hand, we will be discouraging chartered planes, for example, from landing at these very airports.
I had heard from my colleague earlier on that Airports Company South Africa, Acsa, intends to increase the cost by about 166%. I do not know if that is correct. If it true, then how are you going to address it? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Deputy Speaker, the issue of landing costs is an issue that is dealt with by Acsa, and that is under the leadership of the hon Minister of Transport. His predecessor appointed the panel to advise him. The increase that many stakeholders expressed concern about wasn't what the hon member mentioned when it came to the final decision. We are very worried about the issue of landing costs all over the world. At the moment, one of the detrimental factors for international tourism is all these new taxes that we see all over the world, especially from London and some European destinations. It is certainly having an impact.
In terms of the memorandum of understanding, we want to encourage these initiatives, that people may take these initiatives themselves. A few weeks ago, we announced the first quarter results. I would like to report back to the House that we had a fantastic first quarter of this year. In terms of international arrivals, we had 10,5% growth from all over the world - from our traditional and also the emerging markets. From China, we had 67% growth. From our own continent, in Angola we had 48% growth and from Nigeria 26% growth. It is because we have a plan that all of us agree on - all political parties, all the provinces, and the municipalities – but also between government and the private sector. [Applause.]
QUESTION 183
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 149
QUESTION 143
Question 183:
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Speaker, the answer to part (a) is that I have no plans to present any proposal to privatise state-owned enterprises, SOEs. With respect to part (b), the department is in the process of reviewing the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE Codes, with a view of elevating Enterprise Development, Preferential Procurement and Skills Development elements in those codes. More precisely, we are creating subminimum requirements for performance in these areas as a tool to support and incentivise the creation of more opportunities for black entrepreneurs in small companies that are engaged in productive activities.
Furthermore, some of the amendments to the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act - which will be incorporated in a Bill that will be tabled before Parliament in the near future - seek to promote a shift in emphasis in BBBEE transactions from the creation of passive shareholders to more sustainable and active empowerment to BBBEE beneficiaries within established companies, also with the aim of stimulating an entrepreneurial culture and ensuring that black people who benefit from BBBEE deals end up participating meaningfully and productively in the economy.
The National Empowerment Fund, NEF, has, however, facilitated a BBBEE public offer share scheme, called the Asonge Share Scheme. It is a retail product meant to empower black people by allocating some MTN Group shares to them. If and when such opportunities emerge in the future, the NEF could be expected to play a similar role with respect to other transactions. Thank you.
Dr W G JAMES
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 149
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
Dr W G JAMES: Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Davies for his response. I take the point, hon Davies, that state enterprises do not fall under your department, and therefore you had no comment to make in that regard. But the Minister would surely agree that the greatest single Act, the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act, for which the Minister is, in fact, responsible, will only be possible if we created the opportunity to release share equity locked up in underperforming state enterprises like SAA, SA Express, and Alexkor – which, by the way, is the only unprofitable diamond mine in the world - and others to responsibly place these assets as highly geared finance shares in the hands of ordinary South Africans, especially black South Africans, or is the Minister happy to continue on the current path of state capitalism for the already empowered cronies of a special type?
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Speaker, I think that the model that I outlined suggested a rather different path in terms of supporting economic empowerment than that which the hon James is proposing. We don't believe that the way forward in terms of empowerment is simply to be allocating a number of shares to people who own them in some portfolio but nothing else happens. We think that the empowerment tool can become a tool that can support the development of real entrepreneurship. It is exactly those parts of empowerment codes which relate to supply development and enterprise development which we have seen to be underperformed by existing players in the economy.
So, our approach now is to elevate those elements so that we can create real momentum where big companies in the private sector support small companies, much along the model that successful Asian economies have done. We want to try and turn black economic empowerment from a tool of allowing simply passive ownership of assets of companies that are owned and controlled by other people in which black people have no real rights of ownership into a tool that promotes much more effective real productive involvement in the economy. That is the approach which we are following, and I don't think that the approach of selling off a bunch of shares in state-owned enterprises is a serious alternative. Thank you.
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 149
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF: Deputy Speaker, I have listened to the reply by the hon Minister, but yesterday Brazil, which has been offered in this House many times as an example that we must follow, announced that they now have a 2% growth rate, and they are embarking on privatisation in trying to solve their problems. So, do you think they are making a mistake?
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Speaker, I think as point was made earlier on, the responsibility for state-owned enterprises is not under our portfolio. I think that we, on this side, have repeatedly said that the decisions about nationalisation or privatisation will be taken on an evidence-based, case-by-case basis with the facts and evidence on the table. I don't think that there is any significant evidence at this point in time that a round or a bout of privatisation of state-owned enterprises is going to yield us any benefits compared to the importance of state-owned enterprises as vehicles of promoting infrastructure development and strategic economic development in the country.
Mr G G HILL-LEWIS
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 149
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Deputy Speaker, with regards to the comment that the Minister has just made, the Brazilian example is actually instructive. The example of the privatisation of the Brazilian airport where a 51% stake was sold and the equivalent of R70 billion was raised, which would be equal to a quarter of our entire infrastructure budget that this government is currently trying to finance, is evidence. So, if the Minister is asking for some evidence, there it is. Also, the National Development Plan handed over in this House this morning supports an approach to economic empowerment which places the wealth currently accumulated in the hands of the government in the hands of the people.
The Minister said that he does not support that approach today. Is he therefore confirming that it is his department's policy to ignore the approach suggested in the National Development Plan and to pursue some different plan?
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Speaker, that is just a load of absolute nonsense; I pointed out that the responsibility for the management of state-owned enterprises falls under the Department of Public Enterprises; our department is not responsible for that. I pointed out that the approach that we support towards black economic empowerment seeks to promote an entrepreneurial culture and to encourage people to end up as real productive players in the economy, whether they are in receipt of share ownership deals in private companies that are established by the companies, or whether this is through the indirect route of procurement decisions that need to be taken and supply development decisions that need to be taken by bigger companies in relation to smaller companies. That is the direction in which we are moving, the direction that has a lot of broad of support across the country. I think that is something that can unlock a huge amount of creative and productive capacity in the majority of people who were disadvantaged under apartheid and colonialism.
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 149
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Madam Deputy Speaker, I have two concerns which I would like the Minister to answer or respond to, if he wishes. The first one is in relation to the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Bill that he has referred to. It underpins a very important debate that we are beginning to have here now, but it has been delayed in our portfolio committee for about two years, and we are going to deal with it next year, even though it has been ready at the departmental level, I understand, for three years and even though there is general recognition that it is an urgent Bill to complete the entire scheme of black economic empowerment. The concern is that it has been cynically delayed, so that the debate which will be developed around it will shape part of the electoral debate, thus polarising voters along racial lines.
It is a potentially divisive Bill, and it would make sense to anticipate any conflict which can emanate from it as soon as possible so that it does not become part of the electoral platform for any political party in the interest and for the sake of the country. You will have to read about the second concern elsewhere. Sorry. [Laughter.] [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Speaker, I think there are no inordinate delays in the Bill. The Bill passed through Cabinet at its last meeting, and it is on its way to the House. I have signed the documentation necessary for it to be tabled in the House. There is no conspiracy to keep the Bill back or present it at a particular time. It is an important piece of legislation, and we want it to be dealt with as expeditiously as possible. It is now going to be in the hands of Parliament and the portfolio committee.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I wish to advise that we will not proceed with Question 169 today and that the matter has been discussed with hon Kilian. [Interjections.]
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: Based on which Rule of this Parliament has this question been withdrawn, because hon Kilian was informed not consulted?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not able to answer that, but I know here they are saying that they have discussed it with Mrs Kilian. I am not going to respond to that now. [Interjections.] I do not have the answer. So, I am not going to be discussing that; I am moving on to the next question. If there is something that needs to be answered, we will answer it later on because ... [Interjections.]
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker, this question was placed on the Order Paper. If that was wrong, why was it placed on the Order Paper and then withdrawn today? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member! Hon member! Was hon Kilian not consulted before this time?
Mrs J D KILIAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of explanation, may I address you? I received a call at about 14:14 from Mr Xaso from the NA Table, indicating that the Speaker's Office was approached by the Minister by 13:00 today to request for the question to be removed, because it is serving before the ethics committee. First of all, I believe that we must really object to the late notice, because this was already on the Question Paper.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Kilian, I am reading what is written here. It says they have discussed it with you. There might be some shortcomings to that but it is not for me to solve it here on this platform. I hope you had objected to Mr Xaso so that something could have been done before this plenary started. I am not able to do anything now - at this point. So, can we just proceed? We will attend to that later, but not before the House.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Yes, Deputy Speaker, we can do that. But I just felt that it was actually improper because one of our other Cope questions should then have been supplemented in that space. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is fine. All I am saying is that this is something I can't solve now - at this minute - whilst I am busy with this. It is something that we need to discuss with the Speaker who withdrew the question at the request. Can we just get an understanding on that? [Interjections.]
Mrs J D KILIAN: That is fine, Deputy Speaker. We have an understanding.
Mrs M T KUBAYI: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order: The point, as hon Kilian would know, is that the Rules do not allow us to deal with the matter, because it would prejudice the Minister, but also because it is before a committee of Parliament. If hon Kilian, because I think it is incorrect for her to be having a dialogue with a Presiding Officer during a meeting had a problem, she should have discussed it and gone directly to the Speaker so that this matter could have been dealt with there. So, I think she is out of order in terms of how she is dealing with the matter. [Interjections.]
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker, may I address you on a point of order? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am closing this matter. Hon member! [Interjections.]
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker, may I address you on a point of order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am not listening to you. [Interjections.]
Mr D A KGANARE: But I have a right to rise on a point of order, Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, what is your point of order?
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker, my point of order is that this particular question ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member ... [Interjections.]
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker, you have not even given me a chance to speak. You said I should state my point of order. I am trying to state the point of order, and you are not allowing me to speak ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I thought you were going to speak on the other point of order, not this question.
Mr D A KGANARE: Deputy Speaker, there was no point of order; it is a point of disagreement. She never rose on a point of order; it was a point of opinion and disagreement ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, sit down. Question 151 has been asked by the hon Koornhof to the Minister of Public Enterprise.
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What point of order?
Mr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Deputy Speaker, I would like the point of order raised to be heard. It is my right as a member to raise a point of order, and it is your duty to rule on the point of order. It is your duty to listen to it and rule on it. I would like proceedings in this House to be conducted by the Rules and not by the whim. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Oriani-Ambrosini, sit down, please. Minister of Public Enterprises, please continue.
QUESTION 151
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 151
QUESTION 183
Question 151:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Deputy Speaker, the Denel entity that benefits from offset obligations resulting from aircraft procurement by state entities and agencies is Denel Aerostructures. It uses high technology and manufacturing capabilities to design, produce and assemble complex metal and composite aircraft structures. Denel Aerostructures has established itself as a competitive design and development house for complex aerostructures such as wing-to-fuselage fairing. Any new offset obligations provide the company with the opportunity to leverage its proven capabilities for more sustained work packages with more global original equipment manufactures.
As a Tier 1 supplier to original equipment manufacturers, OEMs, Denel Aerostructures is able to crowd in the participation and certification of the local aerospace and manufacturing sectors in the execution of work packages. This would, in the long term, allow for the localisation of certain capabilities by domestic companies which could then supply them to these OEMs. Therefore, the department will ensure that Denel is given all the necessary support required to access additional work packages in those areas where it has the necessary capacity to deliver competitively.
Aerospace is one of the sectors that generate industrial technology and the development of high end technical skills necessary to drive economic development. Denel Aerostructures is the largest aerostructures company in South Africa. It is strategically positioned to be one of the key drivers of the government's industrial development and advance manufacturing policies and strategies. The strategic economic benefits from the investment in the aerospace sector is that it will assist local aerospace companies such as Denel Aerostructures to be imbedded in the supply chains of global aerospace original equipment manufacturers.
The strategic and repeat aircraft fleet procurements enable Denel Aerostructures as a Tier 1 supplier of global OEMs to draw in the participation of the local aerospace and manufacturing sectors and thus fulfil the policy objectives of government of building the manufacturing sector through localisation.
The Department of Trade and Industry through the National Industrial Participation Programme and Armaments Corporation of South Africa
Armscor through the Defence Industrial Participation Programme direct and monitor the fulfilment of offset obligations. Denel Aerostructures is not the only beneficiary of offset obligations that will flow from the fleet procurements by the aforementioned state companies and institutions. Local aerospace companies in the private sector benefited in the past and stand to benefit from the anticipated procurements.
The Department of Trade and Industry is in the process of forging aerospace sector-specific development plans with the aim to ensure that the offset obligations are directed to those niche areas, in which the local industry could reasonably establish some level of global competitiveness. These measures by the Department of Trade and Industry will give the government localisation strategy added influence with regard to the local aerospace sector. Thank you.
Dr G W KOORNHOF
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 151
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
Dr G W KOORNHOF: Deputy Speaker, arising out of the hon Minister's reply, I welcome the statement that we will put emphasis on localisation and that work packages will be secured as far as possible, as well as the aerospace development plan. I think it is positive for the country, because it is of strategic and national importance that we go that route.
My follow-up question deals with the national fleet procurement demands, and that includes the renewing of the jet and turbo fleet of the SA Express; it includes the new aircraft for SA Airways, SAA, and a search for a new marine patrol aircraft for SA Air Force. In these national fleet demands, as you have pointed out, there may be opportunities for state-owned companies like Denel Aerospace, including the offset requirements, maintenance opportunities, systems integrations and manufacturing of components.
My question, Minister, is: As the government regards the aerospace sector as strategically important, will you consider aligning all national fleet demands? [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the department is working together with other relevant departments. As we have mentioned, the Department of Trade and Industry and the Department of Defence and Military Veterans are aligning their programmes and policies with regard to fleet procurement to ensure that we are able to fulfil government policies through those programmes, such as localisation, skills development, pursuing industrialisation and ensuring that the work packages stay in South Africa. We will therefore continue to pay close attention to these. In so far as our shareholder management model, as the department, we have embedded these policies within the shareholder compacts with our state-owned companies to ensure that every programme that we implement is in compliance with these policies of the government. Thank you.
Dr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 151
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
Dr M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI: Madam Deputy Speaker, through you to the Minister, thank you for giving us a sense of how much government is helping Denel and the extent to which that is done in spite of the fact that there are other competing local businesses in the same area of production. The question is: Why should we continue to own Denel? Why should we continue to finance an arms manufacturer which, despite the overwhelming government support in procurement, cannot make a profit and continues to rely on the input of the overburdened taxpayers to keep itself afloat?
One appreciates the strategic considerations, but world experience teaches us that subsidies, whether they are direct or indirect, are like drugs; people get used to them. Perhaps, if Denel was left to compete in the marketplace by itself, it would produce weapons people want and would learn to fly at the economic level rather than continue to rely on the state as its sugar daddy. Why are we doing that, Minister?
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Hon Deputy Speaker, besides the fact that the hon Oriani-Ambrosini asks the same question at every Budget Vote and gets the same answer, the following year he will come back and ask the same question again. The fact of the matter is that for a country such as South Africa, the ownership of a facility, of an institution, such as Denel is strategic. We cannot dispose of a company with the capabilities that Denel possesses and then say the provision of defence equipment, particularly to the Department of Defence and Military Veterans, is going to be thrown to the private sector as their responsibility. Now, it is important that we should firstly be clear about that.
Secondly, it is inaccurate to say that Denel is a drain on the taxpayer. Denel's finances have been improving. The problem with Denel in the past was the Denel Saab Aerostructures contracts that they had entered into. Since the conclusion of the agreement between Denel and Airbus, Denel Aerostructures has been on a positive financial footing.
The company is improving and therefore contributing positively to the finances of the Denel Group as a whole. Therefore, this company is making an important contribution to the South African economy and is critical in terms of the programmes that it supplies our country with, for example the development of skills and localisation. This answers what the question sought to ask – how it will contribute to the advancement of the aerostructures industry in our country. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs N W A MICHAEL
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 151
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
Mrs N W A MICHAEL: Hon Deputy Speaker, following the repeated requests for financial bailouts and fines received for price-fixing by SAA, also following Minister Gigaba's bold and correct step of firing the SA Express board following financial irregularities and the withdrawal of the parastatal's financial statements, does the Minister not agree that the massive drain on the public purse by SAA and SA Express, amounting to over R2,7 billion, should rather be used to provide clean drinking water, housing, basic sanitation, healthcare and basic education to South Africans and that the time has finally come to privatise SAA and SA Express? Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the question was Denel Aerostructures, but that notwithstanding, this is a new question about something different. You do not respond to any challenges of this nature through simplistic sleight of hand solutions as is being suggested. [Interjections.] SAA and SA Express ensure the security of air travel to South Africa, a country that is on the southern most tip of the African continent. During this period when most global airlines, including the privatised airlines, are in trouble, it is necessary that the South African government should support its national airlines to ensure that we are able to guarantee the movement of passengers for leisure and business to our country. We are not in the north, closer to the dominant global markets. We are on the southern most tip of the African continent. If we fail to bring passengers to South Africa because the private airlines cannot do it, it is the South African economy that is going to suffer. Therefore, over simplification of the problems and challenges faced by SAA and SA Express is not going to help. [Interjections.] I am confident that the government is paying the necessary attention to addressing the challenges faced by these two airlines. Having said that, hon Deputy Speaker, these were not the questions that I was asked under Question 151. [Applause.]
QUESTION 163
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 153
QUESTION 151
Question 163:
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Deputy Speaker, government is currently exploring all options to ensure that the use of communications infrastructure in the country is maximised and also maintained to be on par with the world. In this regard, there is a Cabinet-led process to develop strategic options on how to assist Telkom to implement its turnaround strategy to ensure that whilst it pursues the developmental objectives, it also remains commercially viable. It therefore follows that once this balance is attained, Telkom's credit rating will also improve, making it possible to attract investments.
However, on investment in general, as we speak now, there are a number of companies all over the world that have invested and continue to do so in the Information Communication Technology, ICT, sector in the country. I thank you.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 153
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, I want to say that I took note of the Information Communication Technology Indaba's Ministerial Declaration which declared a common vision of economic growth for Africa through increasing accessibility and affordability to broadband for all. Yet, Telkom has just been found guilty of being involved in activities that go against these ideals. Their reactions have negatively impacted on South Africa's broadband penetration and on the economy by increasing the cost of doing business and ultimately costing South Africa jobs. Against this background, do you still believe that South Africa has positioned itself, through the indaba, as being at the forefront of driving access through ICT in Africa, considering that these latest developments belie your statements? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I would like to indicate that the finding against Telkom is a finding on something that happened many years ago, while Telkom was still a monopoly. As we speak today, Telkom is no longer a monopoly because there is competition both at a fixed level and at a mobile level. I want to again confirm that we believe that Telkom is a very strategic entity for South Africans and that the infrastructure that it has, as we speak today, is one of the best infrastructures in the world. It can help us as a country to continue to roll out broadband in all other areas, including the rural areas especially because the private sector does not invest in the rural areas. I thank you.
Ms M R SHINN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 153
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Ms M R SHINN: Deputy Speaker, the Telkom crisis clearly illustrates to South Africa and to our global trading partners, that this ANC government is a rank amateur at managing businesses and protecting the value of state assets. Telkom's share price has halved in two years. Now the ANC is playing with an idea to merge government's three underperforming communications entities into one underperforming state-owned entity. Or maybe it will nationalise Telkom, which is likely to tempt it to revert to its market bullying tactics to protect its turf and forever fight legal challenges to its uncompetitive behaviour.
Hon Minister Pule demonstrated very clearly, during the Telkom/KT Corporation negotiations, that this government negotiates in bad faith with foreign investors and cannot be trusted. So we are unlikely to attract any better offers than was on the table three months ago. Will this government sell its communications infrastructure to a South African-led consortium of efficient companies to be managed as a national asset on which to grow the economy? If not, why not?
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Deputy Speaker, the answer is no. I thank you.
Mrs J D KILIAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 153
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Mrs J D KILIAN: Deputy Speaker, we have recently seen – in the past week – pronouncements made in the media by the hon Pule as well as the hon Gigaba with regards to Telkom and their future plans. The issue here is that there are questions out there in the market as to whether it was a deliberate plan of the ANC to decline the offer by the company from Korea who wanted to invest and, in fact, buy 20% of the shares so that they could push down share prices to nationalise Telkom again, only to bring it back and to sell off or to hand out some shares to other politically-connected people going forward. Is that the new strategy of the ANC? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Deputy Speaker, the utterances Minister Gigaba and I made were informed by the fact that we were working together in assisting Telkom to implement its turnaround strategy. Secondly, there is no talk at all between Minister Gigaba and me or any utterance that speculated or even hinted at anything to the extent of making people believe that we want to nationalise Telkom. We have never said that. Actually, we have said we are assisting Telkom to implement its turnaround strategy so that we can then roll out the infrastructure that is needed in the country. All these other issues that the hon member is raising are new to me. I thank you.
Ms M LESOMA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 153
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
Ms M LESOMA: Deputy Speaker, can the Minister kindly inform us how she intends to ensure that Telkom plays its strategic role in implementing ICT infrastructure? Can you just elaborate on that? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Deputy Speaker, let me start by saying that studies that were conducted and due diligence that was done on Telkom by us and other companies that were interested in Telkom show that Telkom has the best and most expensive infrastructure in the world, something that other countries do not have. As a result, Cabinet took a decision that we will not sell the 20% stake; however, we will make sure that we help Telkom to roll out broadband in the country. This is why we are deliberating and engaging with Minister Gigaba, because he sits with Broadband Infraco in his department. I thank you.
NOTICES OF MOTION
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the failings of the Child Protection Register and possible solutions to make it more effective as a tool in the fight against child abuse.
I thank you.
Dr P J RABIE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Mr M WATERS
Dr P J RABIE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates-
(1) the findings of the latest Wage Settlement Survey Quarterly Report;
(2) the average wage settlement in 2011 that was higher than the official consumer inflation rate; and
(3) the implications this findings have for employment figures and economic growth.
Mr M W RABOTAPI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Dr P J RABIE
Mr M W RABOTAPI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the establishment of a national sports academy and the impact thereof on South Africa's future sporting achievements.
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Mr M W RABOTAPI
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates measures to ensure security in our hospitals and healthcare facilities.
Mr G G BOINAMO
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI
Mr G G BOINAMO: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the high number of the so-called service delivery protests around the country, as well as the reasons for these protests, and comes up with solutions to improve the situation.
Mr A M MAZIYA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Mr G G BOINAMO
Mr A M MAZIYA: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the release of the Cuban Five, currently serving long, unstipulated sentences in different prisons across the United States of America.
Mrs A STEYN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Mr A M MAZIYA
Mrs A STEYN: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the effect that farm murders have on food security in South Africa and comes up with solutions to improve safety of rural communities.
Mr J J SKOSANA
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Mrs A STEYN
Mr J J SKOSANA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates mechanisms to improve accessibility to clean drinking water for rural areas and urban townships.
Mr S ABRAM
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Mr J J SKOSANA
Mr S ABRAM: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the appalling levels of overcrowding in South Africa's correctional centres and the consequential implications for rehabilitation, reintegration and nation-building.
Ms N A MNISI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 154
Mr S ABRAM
Ms N A MNISI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates mechanisms to deal with allegations of fraud and corruption linked to RDP houses.
MOTIONS_WITHOUT_NOTICE
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 157
Ms N A MNISI
WOMEN'S MONTH COMMEMORATION
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
(1) notes that South Africa commemorates women's month in August;
(2) further notes that Women's Day on 9 August pays homage to the day in 1956 when women from all races and walks of life marched to the Union Buildings in protest against the oppressive apartheid laws;
(3) recalls that this historical march was a turning point in the role of women in the struggle for freedom of society at large;
(4) further recalls that since that eventful day, women from all walks of life became equal partners in the struggle for a nonracial and nonsexist South Africa;
(5) acknowledges that the theme for 2012 is: "Addressing
Unemployment, Poverty and Inequality, Together Contributing towards a Progressive Future for Women", and the campaign slogan is: "Forward to the Decade of African Women"; and
(6) urges all South Africans to participate in commemorating national Women's Day.
Agreed to.
Mrs S V KALYAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 157
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY
GRAEME SMITH TO BECOME MOST CAPPED TEST CAPTAIN
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House–
(1) notes that South African cricketer Graeme Smith will become the most capped test captain in the history of the game when he leads South Africa out in the third test match against England at Lord's Cricket Ground in London on Thursday;
(2) further notes that Smith, who made his debut as captain at the age of 22 and who played in his 100th test in the victory over England in the first test at The Oval a few weeks ago, will lead the Proteas for the 94th time;
(3) acknowledges that Smith, who holds a career batting average of 50,17, is widely considered as South Africa's most successful captain;
(4) congratulates Smith on this magnificent achievement; and
(5) wishes him well in all his future endeavours.
Agreed to.
Mrs M T KUBAYI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 157
Mrs S V KALYAN
NATIONAL ORGAN DONOR MONTH
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs M T KUBAYI: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
(1) notes that August is national organ donor month;
(2) further notes that organ transplantation is now a highly successful procedure, and it is considered routine surgical practice for treating many chronic diseases;
(3) acknowledges that over the past 50 years, surgeons have
made great strides in kidney, liver, heart and lung transplantation and that at least 21 different organs including hearts, livers, kidneys and tissues, including corneas and bone marrow, can now be successfully transplanted into patients;
(4) further acknowledges that South Africa is a world leader in field of organ transplantation;
(5) observes that the number of patients waiting for transplants continue to increase as there is a serious shortage of potential donors; and
(6) encourages all South Africans to consider offering the gift of life through organ donations.
Agreed to.
Mrs S V KALYAN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 157
Mrs M T KUBAYI
COMMEMORATION OF INDIA'S INDEPENDENCE
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, I without notice:
That the House–
(1) notes that on 15 August each year, India commemorates the date upon which it became an independent nation in 1947;
(2) further notes that this day is celebrated worldwide by Indian people with flag hoisting ceremonies and cultural programmes in honour of those who fought and sacrificed their lives in the struggle for India's independence;
(3) acknowledges the significance of this day, especially for South Africans of Indian origin, as they celebrate their cultural heritage and freedom with family and friends; and
(4) congratulates the Indian government and its representatives in South Africa in celebration of this day.
Agreed to.
Mrs M T KUBAYI
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15 August 2012 Take: 157
Mrs S V KALYAN
L'OREAL UNESCO FOR WOMEN IN SCIENCE FELLOWSHIP AWARDED TO GCINEKA MBAMBISA
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs M T KUBAYI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
(1) congratulates Gcineka Mbambisa, who was recently awarded the 2012 L'Oreal Unesco for Women in Science Fellowship;
(2) notes that Gcineka Mbambisa was chosen from about 207 applicants and is among 10 women scientists from across sub-Saharan Africa who were also awarded fellowship for their work in science;
(3) further notes that awards are open to all women scientists up to the age of 40 working towards a PhD in the fields of science;
(4) acknowledges that her research will help in the development of highly efficient materials at a very low cost, in an effort to make solar energy accessible to communities across Africa;
(5) believes that with winning the award, Gcineka Mbambisa will help inspire other young people, especially young women, who wants to pursue science; and
(6) wishes her the best in her future endeavours.
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at 17:25.
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