Hansard: Consideration of Bill & of Report: Finance Bill

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 12 Mar 2012

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Minutes

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 13 March 2012 Take: 20

 

TUESDAY, 13 MARCH 2012

 

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

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The Council met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 09:30.

The House Chairperson: Committees and Oversight took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Order, hon members! I have been informed that the Whippery have agreed that there will be no notices of motion or motions without notice, except, of course, for the motion printed on Order Paper.

We now come to the motion on the Order Paper as printed in the name of the Chief Whip.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 13 March 2012 Take: 20

 

The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Mr R J Tau)

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: House Chairperson, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That Rule 239(1), which provides, inter alia, that the consideration of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have elapsed since the committee's report was tabled, be suspended for the purposes of consideration of the Additional Adjustments Appropriation Bill and the Finance Bill on Tuesday, 13 March 2012.

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.

In Favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

FIRST ORDER

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 13 March 2012 Take: 21

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT

 

ADDITIONAL ADJUSTMENTS APPROPRIATION BILL

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Committee thereon)

 

Mr S D MONTSITSI: Chairperson and hon members, the Additional Adjustments Appropriation Bill was tabled in Parliament on 22 February 2012, by the Minister of Finance during the tabling of the 2012 Budget.

The objective of the Bill is to provide for an additional allocation of R5,75 billion to the Department of Transport in the 2011-12 financial year to support the South African National Road Agency Limited, Sanral, to pay debt related to the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project.

In his 2012 Budget Speech, the Minister of Finance stated that the R5,75 billion will contribute to a further reduction of the toll burden. That means it will reduce the debt of R20 billion to be repaid through the toll system and will allow for greater discounts for regular road users.

We will remember, Chairperson, that all forms of public transport – such as taxis, buses and other forms that ferry workers between their workplaces and their homes – are exempted from paying toll road fees.

The R5,75 billion contribution will translate into the following tariff reductions. These tariffs are actually reduced for all those who have registered for e-tags. Therefore most of those who have registered for e-tags will pay a reduced tariff, for example, motorcycles with e-tags will pay 20 cents per km; light vehicles with e-tags will pay 30 cents per km; nonarticulated trucks with e-tags will pay 75 cents per km; and articulated trucks with e-tags will pay R1,51 per km.

This adjustment, therefore, is made in accordance with section 30 of the Public Finance Management Act, Act 1 of 1999, which provides for the adjustment due to significant and unforeseeable economic and financial events affecting fiscal targets set by the annual Budget.

The Select Committee on Appropriation has considered the Additional Adjustments Appropriation Bill, 2011-12 financial year, and moves for the House to adopt the Bill. I thank you.

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

DECLARATIONS OF VOTE

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 13 March 2012 Take: 21

 

Mr S D MONTSITSI

 

Declarations of vote:

Mr D V BLOEM (Cope): Chairperson, I just want to register the objection of Cope to this Bill. We are totally against this thing. Like the Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, we say that we are not cows to be milked like that. Therefore, we are against this e-tolling system and we are going to vote against it. Thank you very much.

Mr A LEES

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 13 March 2012 Take: 21

 

Mr D V BLOEM

 

Mr A LEES (DA): Chair, the additional appropriation of R5,75 billion in the current year, to be used to subsidise the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project, is supported with reservation.

The DA is concerned about the ad hoc way in which the funding of this project is being handled and the general lack of a clear policy on the balance between user-funded roads and general, fiscus-funded roads.

The fuel levy is, in fact, a user-pays source of funds just as much as a toll road is a user-pays source of funds. Essentially, motorists are being asked to pay twice for the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project. It is our view that this is double dipping.

There needs to be a serious debate on the source of funds for road construction and maintenance that takes into account both the responsibility of the state to provide for the infrastructure best possible as well as the user-pays principle.

The DA is concerned about the very high costs associated with the collection of the toll fees on the Gauteng project as compared with the income to be generated.

Will the collection costs for vehicles without e-tags actually be 30% or less of the revenue collected? Will the Sheriff's offices be able to cope if the mass disobedience campaign proposed by Cosatu and others is successful?

The funding of the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project has been badly handled and surely has taught the lesson that a clear policy on the funding of capital road projects as well as the maintenance of roads is required.

Urgent action is required in order to stem the rapid and very expensive deterioration of the country's extensive road network. I invite hon members to take a drive from Vrede to Memel in the Free State to see an example of an excellent road that has become a pothole nightmare as a result of neglect and a lack of funds for maintenance. Thank you, Chairperson.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 13 March 2012 Take: 21

 

Mr A LEES

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chair, if one is a road user who uses the road between Johannesburg and Pretoria, or even if you use the N12 from O R Tambo International Airport, one would experience that one no longer spends time on the road as was the case in the past. Therefore I think that we must also note that difference.

For that reason, Chair, I think we have to be honest in the Council. I think that as a country we need money. If we have to develop the country, we won't develop your country from leaves that grow on the trees. We do need to generate some kind of income.

We have noted how the Minister had reduced the fees after the outcry from around April last year. I want to say that on the radio station, Umhlobo Wenene, there used to be an advert called...

IsiXhosa:

... nesisulu siyahlawulelwa.

English:

I'm not going to translate it. I hope the interpreters have done so correctly.

With those few words I want to say that the ANC supports the Bill because we think if we still want to continue with the business and make sure that doing business in South Africa becomes easier, the best mode would be by rail because it is going to be refurbished, but the roads are still the priority for now and for those reasons I urge the parties in the House to reconsider and support the Bill.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT: Of course, we note the objection of Cope and that of the DA., of courselliance Of course, it's not a blanket objection; it is made with reservations and should be noted in that context.

Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chair, on a point of order. From where I was seated, it sounded to me like the noes were louder than the ayes. [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr R J Tau ): Is that from where you are seated? Ok, sit down and maybe you will hear better.

Mr K A SINCLAIR: I don't know if we can formally vote on the matter again.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON COMMITTEES AND OVERSIGHT (Mr R J Tau ): Hon member, will you sit down please because, from where I'm seated, I heard something else. [Laughter.]

Mr S S MAZOSIWE

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 13 March 2012 Take: 22

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau)

 

FINANCE BILL

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee thereon)

Mr S S MAZOSIWE: House Chairperson, the Finance Bill was tabled in Parliament on 22 February 2012, by the Minister of Finance during the tabling of the 2012 Budget.

The Finance Bill seeks to gain approval from Parliament regarding unauthorised expenditure as per the recommendation of the Committee on Public Accounts in the National Assembly.

Unauthorised expenditure contravenes the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa of 1996 and the Public Finance Management Act, Act 1 of 1999, and can only become a charge against the National Revenue Fund if authorised by Parliament.

The Finance Bill provides for the authorisation of national government unauthorised expenditure arising from the 1998-99 to 2003-04 financial years as well as the 2008-09 financial year. This process is aligned to section 34 of the Public Finance Management Act.

Section 34 of the Public Finance Management Act provides that unauthorised expenditure becomes a charge against a revenue fund only when the expenditure is an overspending of a Vote and Parliament approves, as a direct charge against the relevant revenue fund, an additional amount for that Vote which covers the overspending, or if the expenditure is unauthorised for another reason and Parliament authorises the expenditure as a direct charge against the revenue fund.

If Parliament does not approve an additional amount for the amount of any overspending of a Vote, that amount becomes a charge against the funds allocated to the relevant Vote for the next or future financial years.

The Bill provides authorisation of the national government expenditure in the amount of R544,7 million, of which an additional amount of R40,3 million is recommended for the Defence and Military Veterans Vote for approval as a direct charge against the National Revenue Fund to cover overspending during the 2003-04 financial year.

An amount of R20,6 million is recommended as a direct charge against the National Revenue Fund to fund the Defence and Military Veterans Vote to enable the department to clear the amount from its unauthorised expenditure account.

The Defence and Military Veterans Vote surrendered the funds to the National Revenue Fund due to unauthorised expenditure that arose from financing the activities of military museums from the 1998-99 to 2003-04 financial years, as the department did not have the authority to do so. The Defence Act, Act 42 of 2002, now provides the department with the authority to oversee and manage military museums.

No additional amount has been approved to cover the overspending of the Correctional Services Vote during 2008-09. The overexpenditure of R483,3 million will become a charge against the budget allocations of the Department of Correctional Services. This payment must be effected prior to 1 April 2015.

The Select Committee on Appropriations has considered the Finance Bill and moves that the House adopt the Bill. I thank you.

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

Mr A LEES

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 13 March 2012 Take: 22

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau)

 

Declaration of vote:

Mr A LEES: Hon House Chair, again with reservation, the appropriation of R544,7 million to cover unauthorised and overexpenditure is supported.

The DA is concerned about the fact that some of these deviations took place in the 1998-99 financial year, some 13 years ago, and are only now being presented for authorisation. Why has it taken so long?

Urgent action needs to be taken by the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, to ensure that incidents such as these are dealt with speedily and that, where required, appropriate action is taken in order to ensure that a repetition of this does not occur.

The example of the military museums is a case in point. They should have been transferred to the department long ago. Even more of concern is the fact that the criteria for the approval of these deviations requires that "appropriate disciplinary steps against officials are taken".

National Treasury assured the Select Committee on Appropriations that Scopa have dealt with this matter. However, they were not able to give the committee details of what disciplinary action was taken and against which officials or what the outcome of such action was.

the question also needs to be asked: How is the Department of Correctional Services able to fund overexpenditure on overtime in the 2008-09 financial year from its current financial year's budget? It seems that the budget for this department has been fattened up to compensate for the additional R483 million, or it is, in any event, a budget already full of fat that enables it to accommodate the additional R483,8 million.

There needs to be a very careful look at this department's budget in order to ensure that in future years any fat is removed and used for productive service delivery. I thank you, Houser Chair.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 9:51.

/// NPM / END OF TAKE


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