Hansard: Approppriation Bill: Debate on Vote No 18 – Labour
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 08 May 2012
Summary
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Minutes
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TUESDAY, 08 MAY 2012
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
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Members of the Extended Public met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 14:02.
The House Chairperson Ms F Hajaig, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig)
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START OF DAY
PASSING AWAY OF TWO MEMBERS
(Announcement)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon members, before we proceed with today's business, I wish to announce the untimely passing away of the Minister of Public Service and Administration, the hon R L Padayachie, as well as the hon M F Nyanda, both serving Members of the National Assembly. Arrangements have been made to schedule condolence motions in honour of these members.
The MINISTER OF LABOUR
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig)
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 18- Labour
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: House Chair, hon Members of Parliament, esteemed guests, ladies and gentlemen, this is the second Budget Vote that I have had the privilege of delivering in this august House. I rise on this occasion in admiration of the role that ordinary workers have played in the struggle for what is now a free South Africa.
The historical unity of workers and their alignment with the liberation movement has continued to be a source of strength going back to the days when factory floors were turned into potent platforms of mobilisation of our people's struggles.
When the ANC entered the gates of these hallowed Chambers, a lot changed for the workers – for the better. We moved with great speed to scrap discriminatory pieces of legislation, in the process consolidating various pieces of labour legislation from 53, in 1994, to nine, currently.
Our government has worked tirelessly to give expression to the old injunction of the Freedom Charter that there shall be work and security. This injunction is echoed in the International Labour Organisation's, IOL, Decent Work Agenda which we have adopted in this country. By decent work we mean work pursued under the conditions of freedom, equity, security and human dignity – the very ideals that drove and continue to drive the peoples' movement, which is now celebrating its centenary.
Allow me to re-emphasise the mandate of our department which directs us:
To regulate the labour market through policies and programmes developed in consultation with social partners, which are aimed at improved economic efficiency and productivity, employment creation, sound labour relations, eliminating inequality and discrimination in the workplace, alleviating poverty in employment, enhancing occupational health and safety awareness and compliance in the workplace, as well as nurturing the culture of acceptance that worker rights are human rights.
This has particular resonance for the coming financial year as we will watch closely the passage of the Labour Relations Amendment, LRA, Bill and the Basic Conditions of Employment Amendment, BCEA, Bill, being passed through Parliament. When enacted, these Bills will change the way we regulate the labour market.
I indicated in the Budget Vote last year that we would review and submit four Bills to Parliament by the end of the 2011-12 financial year. Consultation and negotiation on the Labour Relations Amendment Bill and the Basic Conditions of Employment Amendment Bill have taken longer than expected, but they are now with Parliament for your consideration.
Once the amendments to the LRA and BCEA have been promulgated, we will, for the first time, be enhancing protection to cover those workers who work in temporary work, in part-time work and on fixed-term contracts. It has been estimated that the number of atypical employees has grown from 1,5 million to 3,89 million between the year 2000 and 2010. This means that approximately 28% of employed people in South Africa are in atypical employment. The extension of protection and prohibition of abusive practices experienced by these workers is, therefore, a very significant step.
While the main thrust of the amendments to the LRA and the BCEA is to address labour broking and atypical employment, there are a number of other important amendments intended to improve the legal framework, to enhance the functioning of labour market institutions and to deal with labour relations problems that have developed.
Amendments to the Employment Equity Act and the new Employment Services Bill are currently being with the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, and these should reach Parliament in the not too distant future.
In addition to these changes, the department, on the advice of the board of the Unemployment Insurance Fund, is considering improving unemployment benefits through innovative changes to the benefit structure. These changes will be introduced through a proposed Bill which I intend to take to Cabinet and bring to Parliament thereafter.
We are embarking on a new phase of regulation of the labour market, but also a new phase of enhanced legal and social protection. These changes are necessary to deal with the current realities in the South African labour market, and to pursue government's vision of employment creation and decent work.
Let me turn to the achievements of the department during the previous financial year. During 2011, the department took a number of steps to strengthen the organisation and administration of the department, in order to improve its efficiency and service to participants in the labour market. It is worth noting that the department received an unqualified audit for the 2011-12 financial year, which provides an important basis for our sound administration. This was the first in six years. [Applause.]
Key senior management positions have been filled during the previous financial year. We have initiated projects in seven key areas to provide focus for the activities of the department and to strengthen the functioning of the organisation where necessary, particularly in the turnaround strategy for the Compensation Fund, Department of Labour's Organisational Review, ICT strategy, redefining public employment services, and redefining professionalisation of our inspectors. As the National Planning Commission has argued in the National Development Plan, without a capable state the development plans for the country will not be realised. The Department of Labour intends to rise to this challenge and to ensure that we have a capable entity by the end of the current Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.
During the past year... [Interjections.]... the department has managed to carry out inspections at 139 150 workplaces throughout the country. Furthermore, 35 327 notices were issued to ensure compliance with labour laws, and 1 023 prohibition notices were served on companies not complying with labour laws.
The Minister has been leading some of these inspection blitzes in eight provinces in the agricultural sector, in particular, which was chosen because farmworkers are defined as some of the most vulnerable workers in our country. During these inspections, it became clear that in reality most of the farmers want to comply with the legislation. In fact, we were confronted with a heart-warming situation whereby a farmer demanded that we inspect his area of business. He had not been scheduled for inspection, but he insisted and we complied. After inspection, he promised to rectify the four things the inspectors were unhappy about. A follow up has shown that three of the four issues have been addressed adequately. He now awaits an electrician to issue the certificate of compliance.
It has also been our experience that some farmers go beyond the minimum wage and, in general, treat their workers with dignity. However, I have also been horrified at the treatment of workers in other areas, especially in regard to the living areas that they occupy. Some of these places do not deserve to be called living areas.
In general, our inspectors report a relatively high compliance rate, often over 70%. The reach of our inspectorate remains limited however, given that they are few in number in relation to the large number of establishments in the formal sector - both public and private sector establishments. The Department currently employs 1 018 inspectors.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the chairpersons of the Portfolio and Select Committees on Labour, together with their colleagues, for their unflagging support during these visits. Organisations representing farmers have also shown their willingness to help their members to be compliant. Together, we will achieve more.
Discussion has been initiated during the past year in Nedlac on the possible ratification of ILO Conventions 81 and 129. These deal with inspections in industry and commerce and agriculture, respectively. Once concluded, we will consider ratification of these conventions to bring our inspection activities within the framework of international good practice.
Efforts are also continuing to train and upgrade the inspectorate so that they are able to enforce compliance with legislation to ensure that decent work principles are adhered to and address vulnerability in the labour market. The Department has been fortunate to have had the assistance of ILO in providing training and development for the inspectorate, and we look forward to this continued collaboration.
With regard to public employment services, the previous financial year saw significant changes in the department, with the transfer of skills development functions to the Department of Higher Education and Training.
Up to the end of December 2011, our employment services managed to register 403 482 job seekers. Not surprisingly, the majority of job seekers come to labour centres in Gauteng followed by KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape. The service managed to assess and profile 139 428 job seekers, and a further 64 798 were referred to employers or placed in vacancies reported to the department.
Our employment service also increased the number of workplaces registering their vacancies on the Employment Services SA, ESSA, database system, and registered 1 053 new private employment agencies.
It is a pleasure to also report that the Sheltered Employment Factories that fall under the department and which employ more than 1 000 persons with disabilities increased their sales by 5% between 2010-11 and 2011-12.
Regarding the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, allow me to now highlight to you the work that has been done by the Unemployment Insurance Fund, which has become an example of excellence in relation to service delivery. Unemployment insurance, as a social security mechanism, is an important pillar of the antipoverty strategy aimed at ensuring a better life, and is a key component of the Decent Work Agenda of government.
The first R500 million bond was approved in August 2011 and the second and third bonds were approved in December 2011, which gives a total of R1,5 billion in socially responsible investment. These funds are available to start up businesses and also support the expansion of existing businesses. Based on approved business plans, the first two bonds have supported the creation 15 056 jobs and the saving of a further 18 637 jobs.
Up skilling of the unemployed and UIF beneficiaries through training is needed to improve their chances of re-employment. The training and social plan funding is executed in a close relationship with the National Skills Fund, NSF, the various Sector Education Training Authorities, Setas, and Productivity SA. The Fund budgeted an amount of R210 million for 2011-12, of which R19,46 million has been spent as at end December 2011. Six hundred and sixty million rand has been budgeted for various training and reintegration schemes over the 2012-13 to 2014-15 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.
With reference to the training lay-off schemes, the Fund signed funding agreements to the value of R31,11 million from the inception of the scheme up to December 2011, and has paid R9,55 million in training allowances to participating employers and employees. Through the training lay-off scheme, the Fund has assisted 18 companies and 4 330 workers. Very recently the training lay-off played an important role in saving 793 jobs at Sappi.
Regarding the Compensation Fund, the implementation of the Compensation Fund strategy aimed at improving and fast-tracking service delivery is at an advanced stage. The Compensation Fund is currently enhancing the Integrated Claims Management and Financial Management systems, these new IT systems will improve the turnaround time in the processing of claims, and improve service delivery. It is projected that compensation benefits amounting to R3,2 billion will be paid by the end of 2011-12 financial year.
To bring this service closer to the people, the Compensation Fund has restructured and designed a new organisational structure. This structure has been approved at all levels and will be implemented in the new financial year. This will also enable decentralisation of all Compensation Fund services to all provinces. Although decentralisation has been piloted in a number of provinces, the Fund aims to fully decentralise its service to two provinces in this financial year.
The Fund aims to increase revenue collection through web-based registration of employers, electronic submission of the Return of Earnings, ROE, and employer assessments – details of which will be announced in the next few days.
While the web-based submission of the ROEs would be implemented in the first quarter, electronic submission of medical accounts and provision of pharmaceuticals is targeted for the second quarter.
The total investments of the Fund are currently at R28 billion, with reserves amounting to R15 billion. The Fund has allocated 5% of its total investment to alleviate unemployment through socially responsible investments. This will contribute to job creation and infrastructure development. The Fund has also given strong emphasis to internship and learnership programmes during the past year, including those targeting youth, women and people with disabilities.
A rehabilitation and reintegration policy has been developed, and the next step will be consultation with all relevant stakeholders. The first policy framework is aimed at promoting rehabilitation, reintegration and return to work of injured and diseased employees through case management, reskilling and other compensatory mechanisms.
The development of the policy has raised the need for amendments to the Compensation for Occupational Injuries and Diseases Act, COIDA, of which certain sections to be considered for amendments have been identified. The COID Amendment Bill is being drafted, and the policy framework will then be submitted to Nedlac for discussion.
As part of a broader communication strategy, the Compensation Fund will continue with its provincial education campaigns in the new financial year. These road shows are aimed at improving relations with all stakeholders and providing guidance on the Fund's services, as well as targeting stakeholders through relevant channels.
In the area of labour relations, as I have already mentioned, the past year has seen the conclusion of discussions at Nedlac on the LRA and BCEA. Although this has been a long process, I am confident that Parliament will now be considering legal amendments that will improve worker protection and enhance the security of employment.
The Bills are an important part of our work in the area of labour relations, but the department has also concluded reviews of six sectoral determinations, including those for the farm and domestic work sectors.
An investigation has been initiated to determine the feasibility of introducing an appropriate retirement savings vehicle for vulnerable workers, especially in the farming and domestic work sectors. If we are able to put in place a retirement savings scheme for these workers, it will begin to promote a culture of saving for retirement among low-income earners.
This initiative is intended to assist and complement government's broader social security reform initiatives and is not intended to further fragment savings arrangements in South Africa. Nedlac is also dealing with Convention 189 which seeks to provide decent work for domestic workers. Once concluded, we will move with required speed to ratify this convention.
On the international front, the department received a delegation from Sudan, a newly independent state. The Sudanese were on a wide-ranging fact finding mission on labour issues which saw them consult with almost all the entities of Labour. This trip was funded by the ILO.
We also received a delegation from Swaziland. They have been impressed with the work of the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, and wanted to benchmark the success here at home with their own work. Clearly, our successes are the new export currency and we are proud to make a meaningful contribution to the African renewal agenda.
Finally, between 11 and 14 October 2011, the department successfully hosted the 12th African Regional Meeting of the ILO. The meeting was attended by a number of Ministers and leaders of employers' and workers' organisations from the African continent. Importantly, it was the last African Regional Meeting to be attended by the ILO Director-General, Mr Juan Somavia, who will retire later this year. The meeting recognised the progress that has been made in implementing the Decent Work Agenda in Africa.
The problem of youth employment and HIV and AIDS at the workplace are also important challenges for the South African Decent Work Country Programme. In his address to the regional meeting, the ILO Director-General said:
For many observers Africa is turning a corner. Growth is back. Exports are growing. Foreign direct investment is flowing. However, as the representatives of the real economy here assembled, you also know that below the surface of this growth optimism, the undercurrents are still very strong.
Decent work deficits, strong inequalities, persistent poverty, increasing informality, gender discrimination are some of the major challenges in the daily reality of African people. Yet, in every one of these fields, you also have success stories. But it is difficult every step of the way. It's like swimming against the current.
In many ways, these sentiments characterise the past year in the South African labour market very well. While we have had some success, particularly in the positive employment gains during the second half of the year, we have yet to reverse the job losses of the previous two years.
The hon President of the Republic of South Africa, Mr J Zuma, echoed these sentiments at the same conference. He said:
To promote decent work in Africa will require co-ordinated policies that make employment the main priority. The basics for putting job creation in an upward trajectory are proper infrastructure development, a well-functioning education system and social and government services that support inclusive growth.
We will continue to swim against the tide.
Let me now turn to the priorities of the Department of Labour for the remainder of the current year. In the estimates of the national expenditure introduced by the hon Minister of Finance, the Department of Labour has been allocated R2,1 billion for the 2012-13, financial year. The spending focus over the medium-term will be on protecting vulnerable workers, reintegrating work seekers into the labour market and ensuring decent work. However, in order to perform against this mandate, the officials of the Department of Labour need to be equipped, both financially and technically, to perform their duties at the respective places of employment of the people of South Africa.
Increases to the department's allocation have mainly been in respect of transfer payments to public entities, like the CCMA, Nedlac and Productivity SA, with concomitant increases to compensation of employees, in line with collective agreements committed to in this respect.
The increases to the budgets of the public entities that fall under the Department of Labour are much needed. All three make a critical contribution to the smooth functioning of the labour market. I am also pleased to remind members of the House that the CCMA won a gold award in the Public Service Excellence Awards in 2011. This is the third time that the CCMA has won such an award. [Applause.]
While we need to strengthen the role of all labour market institutions, it should be noted that in times of high unemployment, the workload for the Department of Labour also increases as there are growing pressures in the labour market. Unfortunately, our budget allocations have not provided much room for expanding services and extending direct support to job seekers, in particular.
In the year to come, the department will face the following challenges in its administration and organisation: Firstly, the Information Technology-Private Public Partnership, IT-PPP, contract will expire on 30 November 2012. In this respect, the department will need to ensure that it is in a position to continue its operations seamlessly through the correct management of the exit and transfer of services strategy, as contained in the contract.
Secondly, the department has also taken a decision to withdraw from the current transversal contract on the provision of transport, and has opted to perform this function internally. This is aimed solely at obtaining a more cost effective mode of providing this much needed facility.
Thirdly, an organisational review of the department will also be undertaken during the 2012-13 financial year.
As part of our contribution towards alleviating unemployment, the department has prioritised a number of interventions and initiatives aimed at influencing policy coherence, improving access to employment, creating new employment opportunities and preventing loss of employment. The department will participate in the ILO Conference General Discussion Session on Youth Unemployment in June this year. We hope that conclusions reached at this conference will assist the country in addressing its share of youth unemployment.
We have also been very active in the G20 Ministers of Labour and Employment Task Team that deliberated extensively on various challenges and successes, approaches, programmes and schemes that could address unemployment. We will continue our participation in our effort to finding lasting solutions to address the plight of our young people. We have made a number of recommendations on youth unemployment and we are awaiting the G20 Heads of States to make a pronouncement in this regard during their June 2012 summit under the Mexican Presidency.
As part of our contribution towards the infrastructure development programme announced by the President during his state of the nation address, I have instructed the director-general and the boards of both the Unemployment Insurance Fund and the Compensation Fund to review our current investment mandate with the Public Investment Corporation. A certain percentage of the current billions reserves should be invested in projects that are more biased towards employment creation projects. Within a year or two, the Minister of Labour should be able to stand before this House and report on the total numbers of jobs created as a result of deliberately changing the investment mandate. [Applause.] Twenty twelve is going to be a year of improving worker protection and employment security.
As mentioned earlier, one of our priority areas will be the reviewing and amending of various legislations. Should Parliament choose to pass the amendments into law, it will be business as usual for many existing temporary employment agencies whose labour practices and those of their clients are in line with what the amendments seek to achieve.
Implementing the amendments to the LRA and BCEA will be a key priority for the department as soon as they are passed by Parliament. At the same time, the amendments to the Employment Equity Act and the new Employment Services Bill will be strategically important for the department during 2012-13. These areas of activity will be our priority as they link directly to improving the policy framework that governs and regulates the labour market. Improving the regulatory framework is key to laying the basis for greater equity and for reducing inequalities. Workers, like all of us, are entitled to rights, to dignity in the workplace and to conditions of decent work.
The report of the director-general to the 12th ILO African Regional Meeting was called: Empowering Africa's Peoples with Decent Work. I think it would be a fitting tribute to Mr Juan Somavia to ask Members of Parliament to "Empower South Africa's People with Decent Work". You can do so by giving your attention to the legislation that we have put in front of you and, hopefully, support our proposed amendments at your earliest convenience.
I would like to commend the budget of the Department of Labour to the hon members of this House. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M E NCHABELENG /UNH / END OF TAKE
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The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant)
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Mr M E NCHABELENG: Hon Chairperson, Minister of Labour, officials from the Department of Labour and entities... [interjections.]
We need to send labour inspectors to look at the systems here!
Last week, on 1 May 2012, South Africa joined the international community in celebrating a day dating back to the 1800s where workers scored a major victory for themselves. This had later led to a resolution by the Federation of Organised Trades and Labour Unions, Fotlu, in the United State of America, USA, and Canada that eight hours should constitute a legal day's labour as of 1 May 1886.
Last week the international community celebrated workers day under difficult economic times. The period from 2008 to 2012 has been the toughest past five years for citizens around the world, but especially for workers. The past five years, have not only impacted on economic performance but have also seen a dramatic erosion of workers' livelihoods, working conditions, and health and safety as companies struggled to survive due to deteriorating world economy.
This was further confirmed by the International Labour Organisation's director, ILO's director, Juan Somavia, during his 1 May 2012 statement, said that, "This is not an ordinary May Day."
He argued that:
The currently proposed growth model considers work as a production cost that must be as low as possible in order to raise competitiveness and profits. Workers are seen as being consumers of loans rather that as having a legitimate share through wages in the wealth they contribute to create.
So, whilst business has a legitimate reason to worry about profits and competitiveness, some have found a loophole to sneak in the long reactionary debate of deregulating the labour market to undermine past negotiated gains of workers and business.
As a point of first attack, a number of developed countries have introduced various policies to relax employment regulations and weaken market institutions.
According to the recently published ILO World of Work Report 2012, these steps have been taken with the hope that financial markets will react positively, thereby boosting confidence, growth and job creation. Unfortunately, these expectations have not been met.
It is quite clear now that less protection does not mean higher employment, especially for a country whose history was solely constructed to achieve social and economic inequalities. As such, our campaign of Decent Work For All will not cease until all workers from all walks of life have a fair chance to earn a decent wage, work in safe environments, join trade unions and have reasonable social security coverage.
We have to ensure that, at no point should the drive towards increased economic growth be above human development and social justice. Rather we must consistently ensure a balance between economic growth strategies that also promote social justice. These are fundamental human rights which we should not easily give up due to hope for quick gains.
The laws of the labour market are not as clear and straightforward as the laws of gravity. Answers to unemployment and inequalities do not always lie on reducing wages; deregulating labour markets; lowering taxes; liberalising trade and financial markets; privatising public services; and increasing competition.
Countries that had achieved the best labour market and macro-economic results have been those that opted for a coherent approach which reinforces labour market institutions and social protection with the view of enhancing overall employment security.
In order to protect these gains, we need strong institutions that are well resourced to deliver on their mandate. Moreover, we need decisive and clear policies to push forth the agenda of a developmental state. As such, the Portfolio Committee on Labour supports means to mobilise financial and human resources in order to enhance the performance of the Department of Labour and its entities.
Hon Chairperson, without sufficient resources to support these institutions, the labour market will be in state of paralysis. We have come too far to give up now.
The ANC's 2009 Election Manifesto states that:
In order to address the triple challenges of increasing inequalities, unemployment and poverty, we shall focus on large scale decent work opportunities.
In order to contribute towards achieving this vision, Parliament not only performs oversight but also provides a platform for the public and all stakeholders to discuss and exchange ideas on critical national issues. From these, we receive a lot of recommendations and views which we later use when interacting with government.
Since our last budget vote debate in 2011, the committee has had meetings with various role players, including the trade unions, civil society, government and business to address numerous challenges that face our country. For example, the committee interacted with various stakeholders on Decent Work for Domestic Workers Convention which was a follow up from the International Labour Organisation's Convention, ILO's Convention, on Domestic Workers.
Key elements of the convention require governments to provide domestic workers with labour protections equivalent to those of other workers, including working hours, minimum wage coverage, overtime compensation, daily and weekly rest periods, social security, and maternity protection. The new standards also oblige governments to protect domestic workers from violence and abuse, and to ensure effective monitoring and enforcement.
The committee has scheduled meeting to follow up with the department next week to discuss progress that has been made towards ratifying Domestic Workers Convention 189. If the convention is ratified, it will substantially improve work standards and protection for domestic workers. However, our victory will not come from a ratification but on own ability to monitor and enforce compliance of this convention.
Our efforts will continue to focus on ensuring a fully capacitated Inspectorate and Enforcement Services business unit, IES business unit. Even though a substantial amount has been transferred to this programme, there are still glaring challenges such as lack of adequate resources to fully conduct inspections, and restrictive legislation to impose ample fines on those that contravene regulations.
The Committee on Labour supports the R389,3 million allocation to this programme for the current financial year. However, we hope that this allocation will go a long way to turn around the inspectorate service by providing adequate resources and suitable training.
In our continued efforts towards Decent Work For All, the committee embarked on the agricultural sector oversight towards the end of January this year, 2012. Our findings confirmed what we already know about the sector, but also revealed a lot about the sector that has not been spoken about.
The committee's approach was based on the context within which this sector operates and understanding the challenges imposed on it by factors such as climate change and global competitiveness. It was also informed by knowledge that it employs a total of 630 000 people and has potential to create a lot more jobs in the future.
More importantly though, as the Minister of Agriculture said during her budget vote speech:
Our objective to create jobs in agriculture is paramount in this country.
In order to do that, we need to put our heads together to resolve these challenges without compromising either farmers or farm workers. Mostly, the committee got insight into working conditions of inspectors and challenges that they are constantly faced with when visiting farms. For us, it was quite thrilling to witness efforts made by some farmers to comply with legislation.
In some instances, farmers have gone beyond the minimum standards as legislated. However, there were also shimmering abusive practices, so glaring we could not help but were reminded of the old apartheid era. Hon Chairperson, it cannot be justice that we continue celebrating Workers' Day when these workers continue to live under such horrendous conditions.
Perhaps we should not forget that it was in the context of statutory exploitation of workers by their employers that in 1955 our people declared in unison that:
All who work shall be free to form trade unions, to elect their officers and to make wage agreements with their employers. The state shall recognise the right and duty of all who work, and draw full unemployment benefits. Men and women of races shall receive equal pay for equal work. There shall be a forty-hour week, paid annual leave, sick leave for all workers, and maternity leave on full pay for all working mothers.
Hon Chairperson we remain committed to ensuring that all workers are entitled to a living wage in this country. The ANC supports this budget vote. Thank you! [Applause.]
Mr S C MOTAU /Mosa/ END OF TAKE
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Mr M E NCHABELENG
Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Chairperson, as we mark the 18th year of our political freedom, we need to reflect on what we can do today to provide our people with opportunities to liberate themselves from poverty. We will certainly all agree that nothing can be more liberating than to be in a job and earning a regular wage or salary. Thus, I dedicate my speech today to the more than 6 million South African citizens who are jobless.
Nearly 10 years ago, the Department of Labour identified serious shortcomings in its information and communications technology infrastructure and capacity and decided to take action to correct the situation. That was the right thing to do.
In December 2002, the department signed a public-private partnership, PPP, agreement with Siemens Business Services. The partnership would run for 10 years, ending in November 2012 at an initial cost of Rl,2 billion for its duration. As we speak, the cost is projected to have ballooned to R1,9 billion by the end of the contract.
The PPP was motivated on the understanding that certain goals were to be met. In March 2012, the department reported to the Portfolio Committee on Labour that after nearly 10 years of the project, three of the five objectives were not achieved and two were partially achieved. What does this mean in real terms?
An analysis done by the department regarding the capacity built through the PPP reveals that, while Siemens could count 197 human resources invarious areas of IT activity to its credit, the Department of Labour could count only three people. That means the department could only show three people with ITexpertise for the more than R1,5 billion already spent on the project. Poaching is blamed for this situation.
I have charged that for such a disastrous outcome, the money already spent could be deemed fruitless and wasteful expenditure. The department's director-general disagrees. Hon members, you judge for yourselves. I draw the attention of Parliament to this situation during this Budget debate because the saga is not yet over.
A company called Accenture has since been engaged to salvage the situation at an additional cost of R2,7 million for a Phase 1 and R8 million for Phase 2. This agreement runs concurrently with the winding-down process of the PPP.
Chairperson, I recognise that the Minister and the DG inherited this tragic situation and are doing what they can to correct it. My problem is that, among other factors, the PPP project failed because the department had "no internal capacity to manage the PPP and perform the required oversight".
I hope the situation has changed since the department reported in March. However, with only three people with IT expertise in the department, how can they make sure that the PPP winding-down process and the intervention by Accenture will yield the desired results? Chairperson, this is not just an idle question.
Just ask the DG and the Compensation Fund Commissioner how the lack of appropriate IT infrastructure frustrates their efforts of effective service delivery. The DG witnessed for himself how a computer at a labour centre in Bloemfontein bombed out three times in 30 minutes while the official was trying to upload a jobseeker's application onto the system. For instance, the Compensation Fund Commissioner knows that he has a huge backlog of applications to deal with, but he cannot quantify the backlog. He explained that:
It is very difficult to determine because of the manual system we use to process claims. We still use brown files that are carried from one place to the other.
Clearly, this means files get lost from time to time, frustrating not only the department officials but even more so, claimants who have to wait for extended periods to have their cases resolved. Nearly 10 years later, almost R2 billion has been spent since the PPP was signed to address exactly these sorts of problems, or should I call them challenges? This is unacceptable and the DA is watching the situation very closely.
Chairperson, I would also like to draw the attention of the Minister to the fact that the DA was not happy that the department invoked Treasury Regulation 16A6.4 to deviate from the competitive bidding processes to appoint Accenture, notwithstanding the claimed urgency of the situation. Deviation from laid-down procedures to acquire goods and services for the government is a risky practice and should be strenuously discouraged.
Chairperson, the Department of Labour points out on page five of its Strategic Plan for 2012-2017, that the first challenge facing us is unemployment and underemployment. The DA agrees.
By December 2011, the total number of jobless South Africans had reached 6,559 million. Disconcertingly, most of the millions of unemployed persons are under the age of 30 and over 66% have less than Grade 12 education. Indeed, the country has unemployment crisis.
I now ask, hon members. Why is it then that the department refuses to back a youth wage subsidy, or to reform our labour market to be more labour-absorbing? [Applause.] Why does it propose constricting new regulations on business without even doing a proper regulatory impact assessment? I would have thought that it was the Department of Labour's job to increase the number of people in the labour force.
We all know of many of the millions of young South Africans who turn 18 this year, exactly 18 years after the end of apartheid, who will not be able to find employment. Has the department and indeed, this government done enough to provide our first born-frees with opportunities for a better life? Hon members, I submit to you that, that has not been the case.
Setswana:
Ke ka lebaka la eng Cosatu e gana etswa dimilione tsa bašwa ba tlhoka ditiro? A fa Cosatu ga e na kutlwelobotlhoko mo bašweng ba, le bamalapa a bo bona?
English:
Why do we persist in promoting labour policies that clearly favour those already empowered like the two million or so labour union members at the expense of ... Interjections.] ... the millions of unemployed and disillusioned South Africans?
Setswana:
Ka ntlha ya fa batlhokaditiro ba balwa ka dimilione mo nageng e, ke goreng ba tlhoka baemedi mo Nedlac gore dillo tsa bona di utlwale mo kgotleng eno?
English:
However, the DA is heartened by the fact that the Department of Labour is proposing to amend relevant legislation to regulate rather ban labour broking as demanded by the union federation, Cosatu. The government is right to this posture. Hon Minister, through you, Chairperson, you have the DA's support on this crucial matter.
In such a high unemployment environment we must do all we can to create employment opportunities rather pander to those who would do the direct opposite. Destroying the whole industry such as labour broking, which is estimated to provide hundreds of thousands of unemployed people with job opportunities, would be treasonable.
This brings me to the Department of Labour's Inspection and Enforcement Services Unit. The department has committed to make the inspectorate more professional by enhancing its capacity. However, the unit has "no inspection and enforcement case management system" and has a high vacancy rate, according to its own risk management assessment.
The unit has yet to fill 84 of its 1 098 posts. This is an urgent matter because this is critical to the enforcement of our labour laws. However, there is hope.
Although straining under a heavy caseload, the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, seems better poised than the sections of the department to deliver on its mandate as referred to by the Minister while providing details. I hope that the other sections that are struggling to meet their service delivery targets will use the CCMA as a case study on how to improve their own performance.
On the contrary, I do not believe that the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, has covered itself in glory by failing to reach consensus during the protracted deliberations on the proposed amendments to the Labour Relations Act and Basic Conditions of Employment Act. At times like these it is important that an organisation like Nedlac should be the coalition that keeps everyone together.
Chairperson, I have dwelled quite a bit on the question of the department and its IT infrastructure tribulations because this cuts across the service delivery efforts of everyone of the department's four programmes and eight subprogrammes. These will be adversely affected by lack of adequate and appropriate IT expertise in-house and dysfunctional IT infrastructure. The department cannot afford to slack here as its effectiveness depends on its success in this regard.
In conclusion, Chairperson, there are some who say the DA is good at criticising the government and the ANC without providing any solutions. Of course, we all know that this is not true. The DA always makes suggestions and offer solutions. The government has just become excellent at ignoring our suggestions. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Mr D A KGANARE / A N N / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424B
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,09 May 2012,"[Take 424B] [Old Assembly Main].doc"
Mr S C MOTAU
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chairperson, hon members, invited guests, today is my maiden speech in this department, so I should not be howled. The debate about any Budget Vote is whether, what the Minister says the department intends achieving is believable, depending on the funds allocated. The Department of Labour is allocated approximately R2 billion for the coming financial year, which is a nominal 5% increase. In real terms, this is a budget decline. Let me start by congratulating the department and those of its entities which received unqualified audits. I hope this is not going to be a once-offevent.
This allocation is expected to ensure that the department deliver on its mandate. We also need to take into consideration whether the expectation of the National Planning Commission that the department's envisaged Public Employment Services to reduce poverty and inequality by matching job seekers to vacancies, is viable and achievable?
I will only talk about three of the department's objectives, which Cope believes, can contribute immensely to labour market development, if achieved.
Firstly, to contribute to decent employment creation through employment services legislation. Secondly, promoting equity in the labour market through employment equity implementation and enforcement mechanisms strengthened. Thirdly, protecting vulnerable workers by improving capacity to monitor and enforce compliance.
The first question Cope would like the Minister to address is whether the department's budget and spending pattern is reflective of the Decent Work Country Programme's objectives of the need to regulate and enforce labour laws. The International Labour Organization, ILO, defines decent work agenda as, "creating jobs, extending social protection, promoting social dialogue and guaranteeing right at work".
In order to achieve these, several activities will have to be embarked upon. This will have to involve skills development, which has now become the monopoly of the Department of Higher Education. During the previous financial year, I asked the hon Minister five different questions relating to skills development. Her response to all these questions can be summarised in short, "It's not my responsibility, ask the Minister of Higher Education". Hon Minister, what's the use of having the department responsible for labour market if you can't contribute towards skills development?
Cope believes that although skills acquisition involves education, the transfer of all roles and responsibilities to the Department of Higher Education and Training with effect from 1 November 2009 is a short-sighted approach to create a job for one Minister. We are aware that the autonomy of Universities and FET colleges does not create enough work for any Ministry, but the creation of work for one ministry to make another ineffective within the labour market is typical of one cutting one's nose off to spite one's face.
I understand that this is merely an implementation of one Polokwane resolution. Hon Chairperson, there is a lot of what went wrong in Polokwane and this short-sighted resolution is only one of them.
The Sector Education and Training Authorities would have performed better if they were transformed in such a way that a dynamic relationship with industry is nurtured and transformed. This myopic approach by the governing party, which sometimes confuses itself to be a ruling party, to transfer these Setas just to create a job for the hon Blade Ndzimande is bound to misfire. When this happens the whole country would be losers and not only the HHMPson the other side of the House.
It is vital that the labour market should not only produce certificated jobseekers but should also provide skills required by the industry. It is only the Department of Labour which can successfully produce, match and allocate skills required by the industry.
If this does not happen, the labour brokers will have a field day. The workers will continue to be abused and exploited. I don't blame the labour brokers. The basic economic law of supply and demand is at play. The high rate of unemployment has effectively created labour broking as an industry which is profitable, and its proliferation should be understood within this context.
No amount of sloganeering, marching and even threats of banning will change the situation. The systematic creation of skilled labour is the only long-term solution. Cope believes that the first step should be to place transformed Setas back to the Department of Labour. Regulate labour brokers so that their role becomes limited to labour placement agencies and not become employers or extension of employers. All workers found at a particular workplace should be the responsibility of the employer at that workplace. All their rights should be the responsibility of that employer.
In this way, vulnerable workers should be protected, especially farmworkers, domestic workers, which the ANC talks less about, and immigrants of African origin that require special measures. That's why the legislation and punishment for abuse of these workers should be tightened and should even lead to imprisonment of repeat offenders. Cope acknowledges that unemployment cannot be brought down through legislation and regulation alone. It requires a multifaceted strategy, beginning with education and ending with patriotic and honest employers.
Cope would like the hon Minister's position on market flexibility and youth wage subsidy to be made clear. The hon Minister's silence is deafening on this issue. The hon Minister of Finance's position, which Cope agrees with, is well documented. It is not clear whether the hon Minister's silence is as a result of fear from other alliance partners or if she hopes the less we talk about this, the easier it will go away. This will also require labour inspectors to be systematic in their work, to ensure that conformity become normal practice.
Hon Minister, labour inspectors will only be as effective as the availability of the tools of trade they have. At the moment, there is much left to be desired as far as their impact is concerned. These tools are basic things like the availability of cars and cell phones. Technology is so advanced that if all of them can be supplied with tablets, they won't need computers and laptops. The only effective manner of ensuring voluntary respect of workers rights … [Time has expired.] [Applause.]
Prof C T MSIMANG
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424B
Mr D A KGANARE
Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Chairperson, from the outset, let me say that the IFP supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Labour, these days, faces many challenges and with the limited time I have, I would like to raise the issues that are most concerning to the IFP and upon which we would like to see departmental action.
Whilst we are not opposed to labour broking practices, as we do see some merit and benefit in some for unemployed citizens trying to re-enterthe market place, we do agree that they must be heavily regulated by an independent regulatory body, as well as monitored so as to ensure that exploitation of employees does not occur. Employees, brokers and those clients that use labour broking services will all benefit from such regulation.
Labour brokers should be registered and licensed to trade, the so-called bakkies brigades immediately stopped and a code of conduct and regulatory framework put in place, which impose heavy sanctions for digressions there from.
Unemployment remains our biggest challenge. Even though the figures have somewhat improved to just less than 24%, it remains a most dire situation. It is therefore incumbent upon the department to identify and remove any and all barriers of the job seeker entering into the marketplace. Postschool training must be in effective alignment with the demand from the market.
This misalignment is a major contributor and a major barrier to entry for our postschool and recently qualified youth, and can lead to social unrest with possible dire consequences for the entire country. The proposal by the National Planning Commission, NPC, for driver training for our school leavers, and a tax subsidy to employers to reduce the initial costs of entry to the labour market must be employed post-haste. Facilitation in respect of all points of entry to the market is key.
Economic growth must be stimulated if we are to create the 11 million jobs, mooted by the National Development Plan, over the next 20 years. Start-ups and SMMEs, entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial flair must be encouraged and supported by government. Public-private partnerships as well as export growth need to be boosted.
Dispute resolution must be facilitated quickly and fairly and labour legislation must be aimed primarily at helping and not hindering our economic growth. Labour and capital must engage with each other, common crime must be sought before impasses are reached and strike action occurs. Working together in this instance, we can definitely achieve more.
Labour legislation, which compromises jobs or the economy or which has an overall negative impact on South African business, must not be permitted. It is directly opposed and mutually incompatible to economic growth and a fully engaged labour force. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE / src / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424C
PROF C T MSIMANG
Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Hon Chairperson of this sitting, hon Minister, Chairperson and members of the Portfolio Committee on Labour, Members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, accept my warm greetings.
Labour is defined as the exercise of human, mental and physical effort in producing goods and services. It includes all human effort exerted with a view to obtaining reward in the form of income. Goods and services cannot be produced without human effort. The quality of labour depends on the size of the population and the proportion of the population that is able and willing to work. The quality of labour is even more important than the quantity of labour.
The labour force makes it possible for the economy to grow. In simple English, this labour force we are talking about is the workers. These are the men and women who sell their labour in order to earn a living; the men and women who work in the fields to secure food for the country; who work in the deepest mineshafts; who work on factory and shop floors – you name it. The dignity of human beings lies in their ability to provide for themselves and their families.
These workers in our country enjoy protection through our labour laws. The Minister's department is charged with the responsibility of ensuring that these workers' rights are protected and are not simply ignored by captains of industry who would not think twice of exploiting their labour. Madam Minister, we have seen workers who should be protected by labour legislation being excluded simply because they are owned by a labour broker.
We have seen the rights and protection of workers simply being thrown out of the window because they live on "mnr" Van Vuuren's farm, and because they live on "meneer's" farm they are at his mercy for shelter. Their rights are determined by the farmer.
We have witnessed the level of inhumane living conditions that workers are subjected to. We have seen farmworkers who are accommodated in storage facilities, fruit-drying rooms turned into farm accommodation, storage with no ventilation – but workers must live in them. On the St Malo farm here in the Western Cape, we have seen children stored in dark storerooms to keep them away from their mothers, who are hard at work producing for the farmer to meet his deadline to ship his produce to all corners of the world.
We have seen workers doing the same work but getting different remuneration. This is not because the one is less qualified, less skilled or less experienced than the other, but because he is employed through a labour broker. We have seen our labour laws simply being ignored because they lack the teeth to bite. The penalties imposed on contraveners of our labour laws are a mockery to workers who have suffered at the hands of employers. The abusive practices that lead to the violation of labour laws must be prohibited by tightening all the screws of our labour laws to give no room for exploitation.
The International Labour Organisation, ILO, concluded the Convention concerning Decent Work for Domestic Workers last year. The adoption of this convention was deemed as historic by many throughout the world, since it was long overdue. Having recognised that domestic workers are still at the coalface of exploitation and marginalisation, the convention seeks to recognise the significant contribution of domestic workers to the global economy. This includes increasing paid job opportunities for men and women workers with family responsibilities, and greater scope for caring for the ageing population, children and persons with disabilities.
The following should be considered: domestic work continues to be undervalued and invisible, as it is mainly carried out by women and girls. Many of them are migrants or members of disadvantaged communities and are particularly vulnerable to discrimination in respect of conditions of employment and of work. In developing countries with historically scarce opportunities for formal employment, domestic workers constitute a significant proportion of the national work force, and remain among the most marginalised.
Through you, Chairperson, Madam Minister, a lot of work still needs to be done with the enforcement of our labour laws. As long as we have workplaces that have never seen a labour inspector, our task is bigger than what we think. As long as five inspectors share two vehicles with eight other staff members of a labour centre, we are a long way from reaching our target of compliance. As long as our labour inspectors do not have the tools of the trade, we are a long way from enforcing our labour laws.
Some of the challenges are administrative weaknesses in the department - in the inspectorate and with enforcement, to be specific. Previously, we approved more funds, specifically for the Inspection and Enforcement Services, IES. However, we now know that putting more money there does not solve the problem if there are administrative weaknesses.
Allow me to follow the progressive ones that have said they would support this budget. We support the Minister's budget. However, as I conclude, let me say this - let the sons and daughters of the African soil who work the fields to secure food for us all, let the miners who dig in the deepest of mineshafts, let the workers who work in the factories, who give essential services, who transport goods from Komatipoort to Cape Town, from the Cape to Cairo, say, "It feels good to be South African today".
Be proud to be South African today, because the South Africa that we live in today has labour laws to protect them. Advocate for their rights as workers. That is the South Africa that we should be proud of. Thank you. [Applause.]
Adv A de W ALBERTS
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424C & 424D
Mrs L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE
Adv A de W ALBERTS: Chair, Minister, I wish to start off by quoting from today's Business Day editorial, a view supported by many independent thinkers in this country. The source of this thinking is our Auditor-General:
A picture is emerging of a public administration that is in a state of collapse across great swathes of the country and, even worse, of a political leadership that is so occupied with securing its own position and access to state resources that it is either deaf to the warnings or indifferent to the consequences of failing to act.
Add to this mix the fact that unemployment has grown from 23,9% to 25,2% in the first quarter and that the Public Protector has warned that we are reaching a tipping point, with corruption now viewed as endemic to both public and private sectors, threatening to distort the economy and derail democracy. Surely, then, a dark picture of our economic and sociopolitical future emerges from this?
Afrikaans:
Mense skep 'n goeie of slegte ekonomie aan die hand van die waarde en uitsette wat hulle lewer, met ander woorde, kwaliteit en produktiwiteit. Dit op sy beurt kan net gedoen word indien die beste mense sonder aansien van persoon aangestel word en hulle 'n werksetos toepas wat beter is as die ander mededingende ekonomieë.
English:
In South Africa we are consistently faced with a lagging economy, poor service delivery and corruption mainly due to internal constraints for which labour is one contributing factor, Minister. It is also a well-known fact that many well-trained people, who could oil the machinery of this country's economy, are being kept out of the system purely based on race, some on the de jure-basis like white males and some on the de facto-basis like the coloured community. Many of them stay unemployed or emigrate if they can.
Now, consider the energy that would be released if they are somehow fed back into the system to assist in growing the economy, has the time not surely arrived now to start looking at socioeconomic criteria instead of race only? For if we continue down on this path, we will very soon pay the price of the tragedy that has befallen Greece, an economy built on state employment with very little productivity in the public and private sectors. This is also called the "ponzi schemes". The answer to this is to ensure that merit plays a role in appointments and that socioeconomic circumstances be taken into account, but not race. This will ensure that fit and proper persons that will lead to the emergence of a growing economy with more jobs are appointed. The alternative is stagnation and eventual decline. Many of the fit and proper persons can come from the minorities.
Afrikaans:
Daarom versoek ons die daarstelling van 'n gelykheidskantoor vir minderhede waardeur nie-aangewese persone aangestel kan word in poste waar kritieke tekorte bestaan.
English:
Such an equity office for minorities can ensure that those pushed out by affirmative action, but who can add critical value to the economy, can be reintroduced into the system. This will ensure true equity that works both ways and will create a win-win solution in the end. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY / Robyn /END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 424D
Adv A de W ALBERTS
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, the cost of employing people affects whether or not an employer will be inclined to employ additional people or not. The earnings threshold is a significant factor influencing the labour cost to businesses with a higher threshold likely to lead to additional costs for employers, especially smaller firms, who have to realign payrolls and benefits, like overtime payments.
The ACDP calls on the Minister to be cautious regarding the review on increasing the earnings threshold expenditure. We are not convinced that the employment conditions commission is helpful at this in time.
In terms of labour broking, it is the ACDP's hope that South Africa will be rational and follow the International Labour Organisation Convention on labour broking. This allows the industry to exist, develop and grow, while effectively banning exploitative and abusive practices.
Employment has increased among higher income groups in South Africa, while lower earners have lost jobs. Despite legislative gains for workers' rights, social inequality has grown, with most South Africans perceiving the gap between rich and poor as being the country's most divisive fault-line.
Hon Minister, does the budget adequately address the ever increasing possibility of mass retrenchments, which could be a catalyst for violent, uncontrolled action?
Immigrants to South Africa have been perceived as having higher standards of literacy and education than their South African counterparts, are deemed to have a better work ethic, are typically happy to work for a lower wage and are less likely to join a trade union – all of these factors have made these immigrants increasingly attractive to employers a mixed blessing, of course, as this has also made them targets of many local community's dissatisfaction and anger.
Like South Africa, Hong Kong had to accommodate many thousands of refugees in the 1960s people fleeing from China and Vietnam. To overcome the unemployment problem, Hong Kong made a deliberate effort to remove the government's heavy hand from economic activity to allow entrepreneurs to innovate and employ the country's human and material resources to the best advantage of all.
The results were spectacular and absorbed the refugees at such a rate that by the 1880s employers were complaining of a shortage of labour; in 1960, the average per capita income in Hong Kong was 28% of that in Britain; and by 1996, the situation was reversed and had risen to 137% of that in Britain. The difference was credited to socialism in England and free-enterprise and free-markets in Hong Kong.
The World Economic Forum ranks South Africa as the seventh worst country out of 139 countries in the world in terms of its labour laws and regulations. To boost employment and raise economic growth rates, the ACDP believes South Africa requires changes to labour laws and regulations that would promote high labour productivity and a link between productivity and remuneration.
When most people are employed, exploitation is less of an issue as workers can leave bad employers without the risk of unemployment. The ACDP will, however, be supporting this Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Mr A J WILLIAMS / AZM MNGUNI/Robyn – Afr/vm (Eng) /END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 426
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,10 May 2012,"Take 426 [Old Assembly Main].doc"
Mrs C DUDLEY
Mr A J WILLIAMS: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Labour, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers here present, hon members, guests and friends, one of the major challenges facing South Africa is the high unemployment rate that is somewhere around 25%. This challenge is not just a government challenge, but it is everyone's challenge. We, as South Africans, we must make every effort to reduce the unemployment rate. One of the reasons for such a high unemployment rate is that small and medium-sized companies are not being as productive as they can be and, as a result, they either go under or they retrench workers in order to survive.
The ANC government has established an entity whose mandate is to assists small and medium-sized companies to become more productive. Productivity South Africa is that entity. This organisation engages with companies and assists them with expertise and understanding around what it takes to become a more productive company in today's business environment.
It is through the work of Productivity South Africa that countless jobs have been saved. During the 2010- -11 financial year, the Turnaround Solutions programme successfully managed to salvage 16 000 jobs nationwide. The Turnaround Solutions programme has intervened in a host of sectors, including agriculture, civil and construction, manufacturing, clothing and textiles. This, South Africa, is very important. Saving jobs is of utmost importance in today's economic environment. This government needs to invest more resources in Productivity South Africa whose aim is to improve the productive capacity of the economy through interventions that encourage social dialogue and collaboration between government, labour and business. The entity's total budget for 2012-13 is R116 million. Surely, more money needs to be invested in this vital entity.
Chairperson, let's look at the impact of social dialogue on our country. Let us all go back in time and think about what would have happened if there had been no social dialogue in South Africa between 1990 and now. What would have happened if the then newly unbanned political structures such as the ANC, the South African Communist Party, SACP, as well as the Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, had isolated themselves and not engaged with the then sitting government - which the DA was a member of – and organised business? Where would South Africa be today if a culture of nonengagement had solidified back then? Thankfully, Chairperson, that was not the case. Engagement and social dialogue was the order of the day then, and it's the order of the day now.
The ANC government, under the presidency of Nelson Mandela, established the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, which requires organised labour, organised business, community- based organisations and government to work as a collective to promote the goals of economic growth and social and economic equity through the processes of social dialogue. The important concept here, Chairperson, is that Nedlac requires organised business, organised labour, community- based organisations and government to engage. One of the very first Acts that the democratic government passed was the National Economic Development and Labour Council Act, Act 35 of 1994. It is a legal requirement that social dialogue must take place.
The Nedlac founding declaration states and I quote:
The National Economic Development and Labour Council is the vehicle by which government, labour, business and community organisations will seek to co-operate through problem-solving and negotiation on economic, labour and development issue, and related challenges facing South Africa.
The National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, will conduct its work in four broad areas covering public finance and monetary policy, the labour market policy, trade and industrial policy and development policy.
These four broad areas exist in Nedlac as the public finance and monetary chamber, the labour market chamber, the trade and industrial chamber, and the development chamber.
Mr D A KGANARE: Where are you quoting from?
Mr A J WILLIAMS: It is the capacity to engage in social dialogue that gives South Africa a moral authority greater than anywhere else in the world. However, in recent years, there has emerged apathy by the role players towards this social dialogue. Parliament will not stand for this. We expect organised labour, organised business, community-based organisations and government to deploy mandated decision-makers into Nedlac whose rank is not less than deputy director-generals or their equivalent with regard to other role players. Parliament will not sit idly by while Nedlac role players deploy junior officials with no mandate and no decision-making powers into what can only be described as high level negotiations. This type of apathy will lead to organised labour, organised business, community-based organisations and government engaging each other on the streets of South Africa.
The mandate to decision-makers that will, from today, be deployed to Nedlac must ensure that the rules of engagement are clear and accepted by all role players. They must ensure that Nedlac agreements translate into legislation that respects the letter and the intent of that agreement. This government needs to prioritise Nedlac by increasing its research capacity, vamping up the capacity of the existing staff and by recruiting professional expert facilitators. Nedlac is the structure that ensures continued political stability in South Africa through ongoing meaningful social dialogue.
Chairperson, I stand here presenting this speech during workers' month, and I must make mention of South Africa's vulnerable workers in general and farm workers in particular. South African farmworkers are living in terrible conditions, and they are among the lowest paid workers in South Africa. Most successful, profitable companies around the world consider their workers as assets. They consider their workers as an important part of the company family.
Sadly, when it comes to farmworkers here in South Africa, this is not the case. Farmworkers are considered as liabilities, mouths to feed and bodies to house. It is time for the farming community and the South African people to realise that the people that plough the land, plant the seeds and harvest the food we eat are assets, not only assets to the farms where they work but also assets to this country. [Interjections.]
We, as South Africa, can no longer afford to ignore the conditions that farm workers live in; we can no longer do nothing about this shocking situation. It is time for this government to deal decisively with farmers that exploit and abuse and people that fundamentally produce the food. [Interjections.] As a collective, we South Africa need to work together, using the processes of social dialogue to identify...
Mr K B MANAMELA: Hon Chair...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Order!
Mr K B MANAMELA: The hon member of Freedom Front Plus must withdraw what he has just said.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): I cannot hear you.
Mr K B MANAMELA: He is saying that the hon member "praat nonsense" [is talking nonsense]. He must withdraw that.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Hon member?
Dr C P MULDER: Yes, I would like to address you, Chairperson. I said he is talking nonsense, and I repeat it: he's talking nonsense.
Mr A J WILLIAMS: Thank you, Chairperson.
Ms L S MAKHUBELE-MASHELE: Chairperson, is it parliamentary to say somebody is speaking nonsense?
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Do you want me to give a ruling or do you want to give the ruling? You are not helping me. Please, hon member, respect other people when they are on the floor. If you don't agree with them, you will make your point after that. To say somebody is talking no sense is not unparliamentary, comrades. It means that in what you are saying, there is no sense, in other words saying nonsense. Please go ahead.
Mr K B MANAMELA: Can we record that it is nonsense for him to say that, because there is no sense?
Mr HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): I have given the ruling! You can take it easy now. Order, please.
Mr A J WILLIAMS: Chairperson, as a collective, we South Africa need to work together using the processes of social dialogue to identify the roots and root out the exploitation of people that do the work. We need to consider all South African workers as assets, assets, not only to the organisation for which they work, but assets to the country. We need to prioritise their health and safety, their working conditions, their future education and their pensions. We need to put the workers' interests above our own interests, because it is the workers that do the work; workers are the people that build this country. Workers are more valuable than all the gold and platinum in the ground.
Chairperson, it is only through a collective conscious decision by every South African that we can build a nonracist, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa. It is only through a collective conscious decision that we can improve the lives of the working class and the poor. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs I C DITSHETELO / GG//Mia /END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 427
Mr A J WILLIAMS
"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,08 May 2012,"[Take-333333427] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc
C/W AJ WILLIAMS
Mrs I C DITSHETELO: Chairperson, amongst other things the Department of Labour is mandated with, is the task of improving economic efficiency and productivity. When you test this mandate against the scary statistics reflecting us having highest numbers of youth unemployment globally, then it must be asserted that the department need to pull up, and ensure that economic efficiency is achieved and that the labour markets can absorb the unemployed.
The unemployment rate among all 18 to 24 year olds is 51%, more than twice the national unemployment rate of 25%, according to the latest South Africa Survey, published by the South African Institute of Race Relations, the department has done relatively well with regards to protecting labour rights through legislation and policy.
However more often, this has not translated to change in practices in the workplace. It also appears that race still plays a significant role in determination of the unemployment. It bears a question of effectiveness of the policies if today statistics still show that unemployment is highest among African women aged 18 to 24 years, at 63%. Youth unemployment is lowest among Indian men at 15%, and the youth unemployment rate varies considerably between the races at 57% among Africans; 47% among coloured youths; 23% among Indians and 21% among whites. These statistics are so much of a reflection of the past, but they are an embarrassment.
There are other arguments however that holds merit with regards to recent move on amending legislation, and such arguments cannot be ignored. Many allege that what our legislation has set as minimum wage is in fact a barrier to job creation. It is economically impossible for employers to pay employees more than they are worth, that is, more than they create, or hire employees that they do not need. Companies that try to do this go bankrupt.
If the government truly wants to create jobs, it will try to find ways to enable South Africans to create wealth. That is the only way out of the unemployment mess. The UCDP accepts the budget. Thank you. [Applause]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Thank you hon member. Are there members from the PAC in the House?
Mr R B BHOOLA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 427
Mrs I C DITSHETELO
Mr R B BHOOLA: Hon Chairperson, when you zoom in the international arena, the austerity measures that have been imposed in Europe or Greece are a bit harsh. The shift in terms of the policy should encompass more sympathetic perspective in terms of protecting workers. It is sad that the majority of the workers in Europe have lost their pension fund. Also the minimum wage has been cut in some countries. It is a glaring fact that working conditions have gotten worse internationally.
Undoubtedly to advance the social improvements and economic opportunities for all our people in South Africa, it is of paramount importance to amend old and outdated pieces of legislation that serves as a negative impacts to deliver a better life for all. The key undoubtedly is job creation and job opportunities.
The MF welcomes the various amendments proposed, which will address challenges and hardships that people experience and confronts. We cannot allow the exploitation of the poor. It has been an extremely sad and miserable retirement for the elderly African woman who worked for 20 years on a farm, and received no benefits. This was highlighted on the news last week.
The MF would like to caution with proposed amendments as much as they protect workers, they should also encourage competitiveness of the markets. More critically, the department has to improve its performance in terms of the labour inspectors. There must be currently an improvement of the numbers and also the equipment that they are providing to inspectors.
Another crucial mandate in terms of the amendments is the training of the inspectors, the MF calls on the department to ensure efficient and effective training.
The agricultural sector, the farm workers and the domestic sector must be protected against vulnerability. The MF welcomes the hon Minister's new sectorial determination for farm workers and considers it to be reasonable. For domestic workers, the most important and glaring achievement will be last year's international Convention No 189.Now South Africa has to make sure that we ratify that convention.
In terms of the labour broker regulations pertaining to job creation, we do acknowledge that labour brokers do have a role to play. But what is most important is that a balance should be created in terms of job creation and the protection of the workers as such.
The MF would like to applaud those who complying with the legislation interims of minimum wages, and make an earnest appeal to those looking for loopholes in the legislation by jumping on the opportunity to abuse farm workers, remember it is abusing the poor.
Social dialogue is critical and the achievements in the labour market have been quite successful, and we note the incredible work by NEDLAC, but more has to be done to in order to reduce the unemployment rate, so that people strategically , to advance South Africa to be progressive in a more development state. The MF supports the vote, I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Hon members, I want to appeal to the members on my left to stop discussion when the other members are speaking, otherwise you go outside and continue your discussion.
Mr E NYEKEMBA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 427 & 428
Mr R B BHOOLA
Mr E NYEKEMBA: Hon,Chairperson, hon Minister of Labour officials of the Department of Labour and its entities ,members of the public, hon members, it is within great sadness that we are gathered here today following a week where we lost former Minister of Cooperative governance and traditional affairs comrade Sicelo Shiceka, Minister of Public service administration comrade Roy Padayachie, Member of Parliament Florence Nyanda. It is without doubt that the comrades contributed significant to our struggle for liberation and continued to serve our state and its citizens in numerous roles they played. To their families, may their souls rest in peace.
A week ago we celebrated both the Freedom Day and the International Workers Day, during one of the hardest period for many workers around the world. Once enormous progress has been made regarding worker's rights and working conditions. The past five years has eroded those gains for some. In a country with one of the lowest suicide rates in the world, Greece has seen a dramatic increase in suicide rate since economic crisis. A 77 year old pharmacist shot himself in the head, on a central square, because of poverty brought by the crisis.
For the Greeks the crisis is a reflection of hopelessness and a bleak of future. Before taking his own life, the pharmacist left a suicide note that says and I quote; I see no other solution than this dignified end of my life, as I don't find myself fishing through garbage cans for sustenance.
For millions of workers, the crisis put them out of work, and for those still at work they have been forced to take dramatic pay cuts. This may feel like a story of a nation far from us, therefore we cannot relate to their story, however, for millions of workers, this is a story which reflects consequences of failed markets that are driven by greed, without care for those who labour for their families and loved one.
As much as these challenges presents us with a bleak future; we are similarly presented with an opportunity to right the wrong that has been committed by establishing strong labour markets institutions, to mitigate the worst effects of the financial crisis. In addition, we have been presented with the opportunity to change the economic policy discourse, by protecting the positive gains to ensure that where they are gaps we cover them.
In South Africa, the future of labour market requires that government, unions, businesses must be decisive in their policies with one voice of reducing unemployment, poverty and inequality. We therefore should take pride in labour market institutions' role in bringing consensus and ensuring open constructive engagement on policy matters.
Whilst investment into job creation programmes is important, for obvious reasons of job creation, it is also important to recognise and nature the role played by labour market institutions in the stability of the country.
The government must therefore ensure that it profoundly invests in institutions such as the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, and National Economic Development and Labour Council, NEDLAC, to create space for social dialogue and avoid adversary engagements that we have notice in the past. Investment is both in terms of resources and also by all partners respecting processes and procedures that they have to follow when participating. We therefore welcome additional allocations that have been disbursed to the CCMA over the Medium Term ExpenditureFramework, MTEF, period of R16 million.
Hon Chairperson, whilst the role of these institutions is quite significant, it is also crucial for both employers and workers, through their respective unions, to invest in pre-bargaining processes. The Labour Relations Act of 1995 has laid the foundation for this, and all appropriate tools are at stakeholders' disposal, however, regulations can only do so much, where there is no will.
Where employers and unions have not created conducive environments for open communication and cooperation on workplace issues, it becomes visible during wage negotiations, as disputes and strikes are prolonged. This is further confirmed by the nature of referrals sent to the CCMA's Annual Report of 2010/2011, 80% of referrals are attributed to unfair dismissals and 8% to unfair labour practices.
Given these challenges, we therefore request the CCMA to assist in building workplace relations with the view of embedding industrial peace. In parallel we need the CCMA to assist in improving workers' capacity to engage in collective bargaining to link wages to productivity growth. If this goal is achieved, all other broader economic goals, such as economic development and social justice, will automatically fall into place.
One of the greatest achievements by the ANC-led democratic government was the establishment of the CCMA. Almost every South African worker knows the CCMA, be they white or blue collar workers. Even when some may not fully understand the full mandate of the institution, but they at least understand that it has to do with workers' protection
CCMA has become synonymous to social justice; it is therefore with no surprise that the institution has received a number of awards regarding its outstanding work efficiency. The ANC would like once again to congratulate the CCMA for being nominated as one of the top three organisations in the Legal Sector by the citizens of South Africa, and for receiving awards for Public Sector Excellence in the category, Best Reputation, in the Legal Sector three years in a row [Applause.]
To the Chairperson of the Governing Body, Ms Tanya Cohen and Ms Narine Kahn, CCMA Director who have displayed outstanding leadership qualities to this institution, please receive our sincere gratitude for work well done on behalf of the entire CCMA staff and the Governing Body. [Applause]
Hon chairperson, the ANC supports efforts by the government towards stimulating economic growth and employment creation, in support of the efforts to stimulate economic growth; fund industrial development and create job opportunities.
The Department of Labour, through the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, earlier this year invested an additional R2 billion with the Industrial Development Corporation, bringing the total investment to R4 billion. This investment has created 24 590 new jobs and contributed on saving 18 552 jobs.
Furthermore, the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, and Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, bond provides capital for funding start up industries and growing existing industries. The conditions for accessing the funds stipulate that; a qualifying company must contribute to creating employment opportunities. The total number of jobs saved and created through the UIF and IDC bond stands at 43 142.
In times like these – when the demand for services is high due the economic crisis which had resulted in high unemployment, poverty and inequality – the role of the state and its institutions are put to the test.
However, South Africa's challenges are quite unique when compared to nations of similar size.
The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.] [Time expired.]
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN / E.K.S. & nvs
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 428
Mr E NYEKEMBA
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the Minister rightly referred to the progress which had seen the department move from a long history of qualified audit reviews to a clean audit for the 2010-11 financial years.
Our current system of auditing does, however, not report on the standard of service delivery and efficiency.
The DA has had to appoint a full-time person to assist with the growing number of labour-related queries when members of the public, as a last resort, turn to us to intervene and help resolve issues around the services rendered by the department and its entities.
Minister, you have referred to the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, as an entity of excellence. Yet, based on my personal experience over the last few months, client service remains a cause for grave concern. Listen to this: an email sent on 20 March this year to [email protected] – the address given on the website to members of the public – was only responded to after 35 days. I have been waiting for two months for a response to two messages left on the answering service of the sharecall number of that very same service. I've also had no response to a fax that was sent more than two months ago.
Minister, this standard of service is absolutely shocking. Could some of the money used for your expensive imbizos – where hundreds of people were seen leaving a premises with arms full of food and cool drinks – be used to improve client services?
This very same UIF is also giving back only 50% of what it has levied from those who have lost their jobs. What is more, after the severe job losses of the recent recession, the fund is still sitting on assets to the value of R50 billion.
Losing one's job is traumatic enough. It is a shame that the unemployed must suffer while the funds are there to alleviate that suffering.
An HON MEMBER: That is why they turn to suicide.
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Taxes and levies stifle economic growth and should be ploughed back into infrastructure and services. It is ironic that the UIF is in this way ... [Inaudible.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Hon members on my right, please give the member a hearing!
Afrikaans:
Mnr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Die Departement van Arbeid is ook die voog van ons land se uiters belangrike arbeidswette. Hierdie wette het 'n groot invloed, nie net op dié wat reeds werksgeleenthede het nie, maar veral op die vermoë van die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie om nuwe werksgeleenthede te skep. Verkeerde beleidsbesluite en skadelike uitsprake van senior ANC leiers is die oorsaak daarvan dat ons vandag met 'n werkloosheidskoers van 24% - die lid het verwys na 25% - sit. Dit, terwyl Brasilië and Indië – lande waarmee ons ons graag vergelyk – daarin geslaag het om hul werkloosheidssyfer af te bring tot tussen ses and sewe persent.
Mense verwys nog met groot ontsag na die Groot Depressie van die 1930s en die geweldige lyding wat dit tot gevolg gehad het. Om ons werkloosheid in perspektief te stel: die werkloosheidskoers in Suid-Afrika is tans op dieselfde vlak as wat dit in Amerika was tydens die donkerste dae van die Groot Depressie.
Die oopstelling van ons ekonomie na 1994 en die erkennig van alle Suid-Afrikaners se regte het enorme geleenthede vir entrepreneurs, beleggers en uitvoerders geskep. Dit het die geleentheid geskep om werkloosheid aansienlik te verminder. Boonop het President Zuma verlede jaar as die jaar van werkskepping verklaar. Tog is die aantal werkloses in Suid-Afrika nou, na 18 jaar, meer as wat dit in 1994 was. Waarom is ons so onsuksesvol om die uitdaging van werkloosheid te takel?
Hierdie regering en ampsdraers van die ANC gee nie die nodige erkenning aan die positiewe rol van werkgewers en entrepreneurs nie. Ons het dit weer vandag in hierdie debat gesien. Werkgewers word gedurig uitgekryt vir alles wat sleg is. Volgens Cosatu maak arbeidsmakelaars hulle skuldig aan – hulle gebruik dié woorde – slawerny en mensehandel. Dìt, terwyl arbeidsmakelaars in sekere industrieë soos die film- en spysenieringsbedrywe, hier en internasionaal, 'n noodsaaklike bydrae lewer.
Terwyl die Nasionale Beplanningskommisie groot klem plaas op die uitvoer van minerale, maak prominente ANC-lede uitsprake wat beleggers in myne afskrik. Diegene wat landbougrond wil ontwikkel en daarin wil investeer, moet dit doen in 'n klimaat waar selfs Kabinetslede dreig dat grond sonder behoorlike vergoeding van hulle afgeneem sal word.
Hierdie uitsprake saboteur werkskepping.
Ons opleidingstelsel berei jong mense nie behoorlik voor vir die wêreld van werk nie.
English:
Some 400 000 young people currently roaming our streets without hope could have benefitted from the DA's proposed youth wage subsidy. [Interjections.] Cosatu is opposing this proposal and government is faltering because it does not want to anger its partner.
It is not only the 400 000 young people who would have benefitted from this; employment brings with it enormous other social benefits. The DA in the Western Cape last week welcomed 850 young people as interns to the provincial administration. Midvaal, the DA-controlled municipality, has become a preferred destination for investors. While the ANC is killing jobs, the DA is creating opportunities in line with its open opportunity vision.
Minister, if you want to realise the vision of the department, if you want to make a real, positive difference to the people of this country, you would send a clear signal to your colleagues that job creation is a national priority and that public statements that are detrimental to job creation will not be tolerated. You would listen to employers when they warn you that certain proposed changes to labour legislation will lead to further job losses.
Hon members, the evidence is there. You need only but move around our country to see... [Inaudible.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Hon members on my right, please, give the member a hearing. Even if you don't agree with him, give him a hearing.
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: We cannot afford to ignore the pleas of employers who are forced to lay off staff due to the populist demands of union leaders. Bargaining councils are setting minimum costs of employment that are forcing industries to close down or to relocate to other countries. Those that are able to do so, replace labour with automated equipment.
To quote from the National Planning Commission's report,
We can reduce the unemployment rate to 6% by 2030. It will require leadership, difficult political choices and effective implementation.
I therefore plead with you, hon Minister and colleagues in the portfolio committee, to display that leadership, to make those difficult political choices, and then to insist on effective implementation of the policies.
Thousands of our people and their families depend on us to expand the number of jobs. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr K B MANAMELA
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Takes: 428, 429 & 430
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN
Mr K B MANAMELA: Chairperson, hon chairperson of the portfolio committee, hon Minister, Director-General and senior management of the Department of Labour, hon members, in the past week, when workers came out in their millions to celebrate May Day, major discussions and the pleas of all these workers were dominated by the hope that can and should be ushered in by the labour law amendments.
They demanded for their right to strike not to be taken away; they demanded for their wages to be protected; they demanded for an improvement in their working conditions. Their chorus was deafening and our responsibility remains to listen to the most vulnerable in the employment relationship.
I hope that all of us will listen to the workers' voices, as they yearn for protection and democracy in our labour laws.
Over the years, ignorance of and noncompliance with labour laws have led to the undermining of the very functions the laws have been created for, which are: to protect vulnerable workers and create a democratic dispensation in the workplace. Some critics have identified these as very ambitious goals and functions. We disagree.
We come from a history of exploitation, exclusion, long working hours, antibargaining rights for workers, the use of security forces to suppress labour unrest and the protection of the most racist legislation the world had ever seen.
We cannot define the goal of democracy as being too ambitious or the purpose of protecting workers' rights as too elaborate. These goals must be pursued by our generation before the people in our country will have confidence in the institutions set up by the democratic dispensation.
These goals must be pursued by our generation before the people in our country will have confidence in the institutions set up by the democratic dispensation. The labour law amendments proposed before the House and at the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, are clearing the clouds and filling in the gaps created by the first post apartheid labour law.
They should send shivers to the spines of noncompliant employers and also arise and unite, in our workers, the differences of natural justice and democracy. We agree with the assertions that more labour laws must not be to the distraction of either workers or employers, but for the creation of jobs and enhancement of employment relations.
Some employers, consciously so, have actively ignored the laws resulting in the reduction of real wages and super profits in their favour. Workers in the domestic, construction and agricultural sector, which are farm worker and domestic workers, have suffered the most, as employers continue to not comply with the legislation.
The capacity of the department, to enforce these laws was undermined by lack of resources; capacity and skills; on the part of labour and its qualities. Legislation, which has now been presented for Parliament, will be the subject of discussion, and passing into law over the next few months; and will be the indignities of the commitment of this government and the ruling party, to reverse this challenge.
We are looking forward to the conclusion of discussions at Nedlac, on the Labour Relation Act, LRA, amendments with the hope that all social partners would have concluded this discussion in order to ensure protection of the most vulnerable workers. We must clarify that as the ANC; we affirm the thrusts of this labour law amendment. We do not subscribe to the notion that tightened labour laws that protect workers are a threat to job creation.
In fact, any genuine employer should welcome the tightening of employment laws and strict monitoring and enforcement of these laws, in order to isolate those who are interested in undermining our Constitution, legislation and democracy, those rotten apples, which we must at all times spot.
As the ANC, we support the notion that we need to prohibit all forms of super exploitation in the employment relations. We are aware that there are social partners who believe that through, for instance, the regulation of private temporary employment agency or labour brokers, they will end this exploitation.
We, also, note with interest that the majority of social partners from here; from this portfolio committee; in the public hearings that we have conducted; in committee time; and the discussion that matters, concedes that there is a need to curb the exploitation nature, which private employment services have conducted their business with.
I do not know why there are dreamers, who still believe that labour brokers are holier than thou, when all has been given back to the public, that even the ones who treat themselves as holy, have been involved in this exploitation nature. It can only be those who have connections with labour brokers, those who own labour brokering companies, who will want to hide the truth from the public. In their majority, many have made submissions for a total ban on labour brokers.
This House will still be seized with these questions in the couple of months to come. We see our role as law makers; we have listened to all these parties; and it shows that the laws that we have passed are in the interest of the majority of our people. The days of permanent casuals must be history; the days of workers with unequal earning whilst doing work of the same nature must be history; the days wherein workers in the same workplace are treated differently, either because of colour, gender or age must be stopped.
The days wherein anyone would ignore the law and will, and not face the consequences must be history. The laws that are proposed will ensure that we put an end to all exploitation practices within the labour dispensation.
We are, as the ANC, also more inclined and believe that the future lies in strengthened public or state employment services, which collate data of job seekers, skill them on the basic needs for entering a job and placing them in a permanent employment seeking rewards.
Hon Kganare, the last case of democracy was at the Polokwane Conference, other than that, there has not been any democracy taste, that is why you are so bitter and still missing the good days in the ANC…[Interruptions.]
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chairperson, Is the hon member prepared to take a question?
Mr K B MANAMELA:…and hopefully when we finally close the chapter of…[Interruptions.]
Mr B M BHANGA: I don't know, is a member is going to take a question?
Mr K B MANAMELA: No, I am not prepared to take any question, especially not from him. We hope that we will all come back and experience the democratic feel that is within the ANC. There is no democracy were you are, you will have to come back home.
The weakness that the department of labour considered to be about services and IT capacity, since its address is theirs, both n terms of legislation and budgetary allocation. We believe that more investment is required in the coming financial year, to ensure that we improve the human category in this regard.
In the past, we have seen the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA's, stance, helplessly trying to salvage some of the labour crises and disputes, which we have experienced. We believe that by empowering the CCMA to intervene in some of these disputes is a market progress in our favour.
We know that there are many employers who allow trade unions to organise; but in many instances, the low levels of literacy of workers and fear of joining the unemployment queue, workers supports the malicious and serious exploitation by the employers. We believe that legislation, meant to empower, Minister, and regulate the minimum requirement for recognition of the rights of unions, is an important progress.
It is the responsibility of this Parliament, through its constituency of business, to ensure that workers and employers; trade unions and employer; organisations and all South Africans, know the new amendments and understand their impact of whatever businesses that they will be involved in.
Similarly, it can only be through knowledge and capacity, to comply with these laws, that employers will see only hope, for their sustained entrepreneurial efforts, and not despair, within which they have to close their shops. There has been a talk about how the ANC has put the youth subsidy aside, and I think it is no more about whether the ANC has put that aside or not.
I think it is about the bitterness of how the Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, and its general-secretary had ended the approaches, the plotting and the advances that the leaders of the DA had made. I also think that, based on that bitterness since she can not take it kindly, she had even arranged for the police to go and march so that she sees Zwelinzima Vavi, not to hand over a memorandum I doubt, but to hand over a bunch of flowers.
I think we should not even worry about all these other things that had been said. I think the leader of the DA, must deal with rejection nicely, in as much as she has dealt with rejection by the voter of South Africa. More importantly, the hon Motau speaks like a fake James Bond, who reasons the past, then finds information and present it as a discovery.
The department has briefed the portfolio committee on the issues that he had raised, it is through the initiatives of the department, that they know that the first ever public private partnership was a massive failure and that interventions are been made to make sure that we build capacity in the department and learn lessons in order to ensure that the mess that we all know, is not repeated.
Most importantly, the commitment was made by the department, through the transfer and acting programme, to ensure that we do not have a similar problem. It cannot be through Mr Motau's brilliancy, he cannot come here and present himself as the discoverer of information, which we all know and are dealing with.
We are quite worried that, instead of focusing on real issues that affects workers throughout the whole country, workers in farms, domestic, construction industry, the opposition party such as Cope, which holding the end way, chooses to do, wants to try and play politics instead of looking at the budget. Hopefully, they will look at the budget.
I don't understand when someone rent the boots for three minute and at the end of the day, says, we will support the budget. It is clear that this budget is the best and we applaud the Minister for having received the first ever clean audit.
I don't understand also why when the Department of Labour received an audit; the DA says that audits do not indicate the levels of service delivery. In every elections, the DA went all out and said they have clean audits here and there, when we knew that those clean audits were not a reflection of how clean Khayelitsha, Langa and Gugulethu were. They have today been making noise about the Department of Labour not getting an unqualified audit, and because today we have it, they want to come up with other magical reasons why we should not accept this audit. As the ANC, we support this budget. Thank you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I know it's late and that everybody is getting excited. Please, don't shout across. Everybody is getting a bit excited and that's because everybody is tired.
The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant) / nvs(Eng&Afr) & LMM & / END OF TAKE
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 430
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig)
The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon House Chairperson, some of the questions have been addressed by the hon member Buti Manamela. I really want to appeal to some of the members that when we come here for a Budget Vote, even if they have prepared their speeches, they must listen and listen carefully to what the presentation has said, and not come back and ask questions that have been responded to.
Firstly, I just also want to touch on the issue of the employment equity that the hon member Alberts has raised. He said we must not look at the race, but before 1994, when the black people were oppressed, it was because of their colour. They were oppressed and exploited. Even today, some of them are being exploited because of their colour. That is why we are saying there should be employment equity.
Secondly, also when you go to other big industries, we will still find people that are called unqualified engineers. Why? It's because of their colour; they are black and don't have qualifications. The question is why those industries do not prioritise the so called unqualified engineers?
Thirdly ... I think you have to shut up hon member so that I can be able to respond to what you have raised.
Mrs S V KALYAN: Hon Chair, on a point of order: I submit that the use of the word "shut up" is unparliamentary.
The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon House Chairperson, I also want to... [Interjections.]
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, on a point of order: I submit that the use of the word "shut up" is unparliamentary, and I request that you to make a ruling in this regard.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Will you please be quiet! The word "shut up" or the phrase "shut up" is unparliamentary.
The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon House Chair, my language is IsiZulu, and if I say "thula" [Be quiet.], I say "shut up". That problem is how you interpret it.
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, it's still unparliamentary, not matter what language it is, and with all due respect, i request that you to ask the member to withdraw. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon Chair, I withdraw, but I just want to say to the member...
IsiZulu:
... thula, vala umlomo wakho, thula. [Keep quiet, close your mouth, and be quiet.]
English:
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam, the Minister is perpetuating the debate; she should withdraw unconditionally without the qualification.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Mrs Kalyan, "shut up" has its different connotation from "be quiet", and that's what "thula" means. Please, carry on!
The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon Kganare, you said the ANC must talk less about the domestic workers. As we speak today, due to the contribution by the ANC, both here at home and internationally, we now have Convention 189, which is before the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac. Those who don't understand the processes of how to deal with the issues that will affect or amend the legislation, those issues should go back to Nedlac before they come to Parliament.
I also want to say to hon Kganare that in terms of the Labour Relations Amendment Bill that is before Parliament, members should be able to wait and start the process of dealing with those particular issues. Hon Kganare, you must bear in mind that some of these challenges that we have today ... I think you should just reflect on what you did when you were the secretary of Saccawu, when you mislead some of the workers into agreeing on flexibility. By doing that, you would be doing justice to the workers. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Hon members, I can't hear the speaker. I can't hear the hon member!
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chair, on point of order: Is it parliamentary for the Minister to deliberately mislead the House by saying things about what I did when I was with Saccawu, which she knows that they are not true?
The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon House Chair, fortunately, I was a member of Saccawu while he was the secretary thereof. [Interjections.]
Mr B M BHANGA: Order, order, hon Chair! Hon Chair, is it correct for a 100-year old party to behave like a one-year old child?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Could you please continue, Madam Minister. You have exactly two minutes left. Members, will you please be quiet!
The MINISTER OF LABOUR (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon Chair, with the two minutes that is left for me, I just want to thank all the officials of the department and also the entities that fall under labour, for their contributions in implementing the mandate of the department and, assure this House that we will continue to do so. I also want to request the members, particularly those who have raised questions, to ask for the Hansard so that they can see and understand what I have said because they have a problem of hearing. Those questions have been answered in my budget speech. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Chair, I have raised a point of order and you did not rule on it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I can't hear you. What is your point of order, sir?
Mr D A KGANARE: It is about what the Minister has said about me. I raised a point of order on whether is it parliamentary for the Minister to deliberately mislead the House?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Will you all take your seats, please! Let's resolve the issue right here. Please, take your seats! Will you all sit down for a moment. Those members at the back there, will you please take your seats. Will you ask them all to come back? Mr Mofumadi, please ask them to come back. Can you take your seats for a moment, please!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig)
UNREVISED HANSARD
EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Tuesday, 8 May 2012 Take: 430
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig)
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): I would like to rule on the issue right here now. I think Mr Kganare and the Minister, I in the Chair, cannot be an arbitrator of what is correct and what is not correct or what is supposed to be truthful or not truthful. That is my ruling. You can't hear me?
What I'm saying is that, I, in this Chair cannot be an arbitrator of what you are saying happened and what the Minister said has happened. So, in that case, I'm not taking your point of order. Thank you.
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 16:20.
ARM / END OF TAKE
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