Hansard: Approppriation Bill: Debate on Vote No 19 – Social Development

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 01 May 2012

Summary

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Wednesday, 2 May 2012 Take: 384

WEDNESDAY, 2 MAY 2012

PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 16:05.

House Chairperson Mr M B Skosana, as Chairperson, took the Chair.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT

UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Wednesday, 2 May 2012 Take: 384

Start of Day

APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 19 – Social Development:

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, Deputy Minister of Social Development Ms Bongi Maria Ntuli, MECs from almost all the provinces, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Social Development, Ministers, hon members, distinguished guests, and ladies and gentlemen, I am greatly honoured to lead in this year's Budget debate on Vote No 19: Social Development. The matters about which this Budget is concerned are essentially those of human rights. These are matters that have always occupied the centre stage of the struggle for national liberation. This Budget is being debated against the backdrop of the centenary celebration of our country's ruling party, the continent's oldest modern liberation movement, the African National Congress.

In pursuit of its historic mission, in 1943, the ANC adopted a Bill of Rights, also known as the African Claims document, which drew upon the Atlantic Charter of August 1941, and was deeply inspired by some of the key ideals that "there was to be advancement of social welfare and that the participants would work for a world free of want and fear". One hundred years later, the ANC continues to be an unparalleled champion for the fulfilment of these ideals in our motherland.

Last year, the department received a Budget of R105 billion, R97 billion of which was for social assistance. With last year's Budget, in addition to providing social grants, we implemented measures to address the plight of children in poor households, senior citizens, people living with HIV/Aids, people with disabilities, the youth in dire need and other vulnerable groups. In this delivery, I will focus on our plans for children, senior citizens, social workers, policy initiatives, institutional reforms and the achievements of the South African Social Security Agency, Sassa. The Deputy Minister will speak about issues affecting the youth and the work of the National Development Agency, NDA. In this context, she will elaborate on our interaction with civil society organisations working at a community level.

Our government remains committed to the full realisation of the rights and wellbeing of our children. Over the last few weeks, there has been extensive media coverage regarding alleged incidents of rape of two siblings by a teacher, as well as the rape of a 17-year-old girl with a mental disability. These incidents have undoubtedly troubled many South Africans. They have highlighted the depth of the challenges that we still face as we construct a new society that seeks to safeguard the safety and wellbeing of all. This is a task that we are putting at the heart of our programme of action. Consequently, this task will constitute the central feature of the operational collaboration among all institutions of state and civil society. We call upon our social workers, health workers and law enforcement officers to provide the victims with the support they may require.

Of the department's total Budget allocation, an amount of R70 million will go towards strengthening the Victim Empowerment Programme. In our design of this programme, we intend to put more emphasis on preventative measures, which will include creating awareness among families and communities. As the recent incidents have shown, people with disabilities remain vulnerable in various ways. Our policy on disability is now aligned with the provisions of the United Nations Convention on Disability. This will enable us to ensure that the rights of people with disabilities are fully protected and promoted. Allow me to acknowledge with gratitude the donation of 10 specially modified motor vehicles by the Japanese International Co-operation Agency towards government's work on disability and home-based care.

isiXhosa:

Sithi ningadinwa nangomso! [Kwaqhwatywa.]

English:

Chairperson, the social ills of abuse against women and children reaffirm the need for us to build strong families to enable them to protect the most vulnerable members of our society. Cabinet last year approved the department's Green Paper on Families, which aims to shift the focus of government services from purely targeting individuals, but rather responding to their needs as family members. The department has concluded consultation within government and will launch the Green Paper for public engagement on 15 May this year on the occasion of the International Day of Families.

Chairperson, a qualitative Early Childhood Development, ECD, policy and implementation strategy will, undoubtedly, be government's most important policy intervention over the next 20 years in relation to the enhancement of the overall wellbeing and development of South Africa's children. Empirical evidence attests to the fact that the first 1 000 days in a child's life offer a unique opportunity for the optimal physical and cognitive development, and the overall health of a South African child. In March this year, the Department of Social Development hosted a successful ECD conference attended by various role players from all spheres of government, ECD practitioners, experts, academics and development partners. The conference concluded on key issues, including the need to review and harmonise existing policies to ensure universal access to ECD services, the development of a multisectoral and partnership-based approach for the effectiveness of ECD services, and the development of a policy framework to guide the resourcing of ECD services and infrastructure. These outcomes will form the basis for the programme of action to be concluded by June 2012, with set targets.

Over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period, MTEF, government has allocated R1,2 billion covering ECD and child and youth care services in accordance with the Isibindi model. The department will spend R40 million to conduct an audit of all ECD facilities in the country over the next two years. Last year, Minmec resolved that, with effect from this financial year, we will pay a subsidy of R15 per child per day with a view to achieving parity in the financing of ECD services. In order to maximise the full benefits of ECD, all provinces will aim to achieve full participation by children in the ECD programme for 264 days over the MTEF, in accordance with the norms and standards.

As we continue our focus on children, we will this year consolidate services to orphaned and vulnerable children, especially those living in child-headed households, thus enabling them to access vital services and support. We will be recruiting and orientating the first contingent of child and youth care workers, as part of the 10 000 target to be trained over the MTEF. The Isibindi model strives to keep orphaned and vulnerable siblings together and targets communities with high prevalence rates of HIV/Aids. It uses the services of trained youth as caregivers to provide direct care to children in their homes and communities through youth empowerment, child protection and safe park programmes. Chairperson, may I take this opportunity to acknowledge our special guests in the public gallery, the children from child-headed households whose development depends on the goodwill and collective effort by all of us. [Applause.]

Chairperson, extreme poverty is still experienced by large numbers of people in South Africa, manifesting itself in the form of severe hunger and malnutrition. This is particularly prevalent in areas such as Umkhanyakude in KwaZulu-Natal, Ngaka Modiri Molema in the North West, OR Tambo in the Eastern Cape, Waterberg in Limpopo, and Motheo in the Free State, to name but a few. This year, we will roll out the Food for All Campaign, starting in Umkhanyakude in Northern KwaZulu-Natal. Our Food for All Campaign, which we launched last December, serves as a build–up to our implementation towards the attainment of a South Africa without extreme poverty, based on the Brazilian Zero Hunger Model.

South Africa's Social Assistance Programme, with an allocation of R105 billion in the 2012-13 financial year, projected to grow up to R122 billion in the 2014-15 financial year, remains our government's biggest poverty alleviation intervention. The programme provides social grants to 15,8 million beneficiaries, in order to reduce their levels of deprivation and enable them to participate in the economy. For instance, Bongisiwe Ngubane, a young woman who was forced to drop out of school in Grade 5, who sits in the gallery today, heads the orphaned Ngubane family in Umsinga, KwaZulu-Natal. She receives a foster care grant for her siblings and saves R600 of the R2 310 she receives for them. In her own words ...

isiZulu:

... "Ngifuna babe noma yini uma baqeda isikole." [Ihlombe.]

English:

The child support grant, CSG, reaches 10,6 million children up to the age of 18. This month, we intend to launch a recently completed study examining both the quantitative and qualitative impact of the CSG. Under current legislation, the CSG is linked to conditions of regular school and clinic attendance, but these provisions are not always complied with. We will look at more forcefully applying the conditions, starting with an extensive communication campaign to create awareness about the importance of these conditions and compliance therewith. Furthermore, we have signed a protocol with the Department of Basic Education to confirm school enrolment and attendance of children in receipt of CSG and the foster care grant.

Chairperson, Sassa has repositioned itself to address its challenges of a lack of standardisation, incomplete information on beneficiary details, and the risks of potential fraud associated therewith. From 1 June 2012 until 31 December this year, Sassa will re-register all its beneficiaries through a biometric enrolment system to ensure life verification and identity authentication of beneficiaries. Sassa has also introduced a new payment system which will save government an amount of R800 million per annum, accumulatively R4 billion over five years. We also aim to upgrade an additional 400 pay points and 300 local offices over the MTEF. The social grant system is prone to leakages and fraudulent activities. To mitigate this, government has allocated over the MTEF an amount of R30 million for setting up an inspectorate institution with a mandate to monitor the integrity of the grant administration system, to ensure its credibility. The inspectorate should be fully functional by 2015.

Chairperson, last year we hosted a successful Biennial Anti-Substance Abuse Summit. Research papers presented at the summit show that drug and alcohol abuse are linked to ill health and social disorders the world over. They also indicate that alcohol intoxication is associated with morbidities arising from injuries, with increased risky sexual behaviour, and that approximately 65% of murders in South Africa are associated with social behaviour largely fuelled by alcohol abuse. Pursuant to the outcomes of the summit, the Interministerial Committee on Anti-Substance Abuse will this year consolidate its legislative review initiatives focusing on banning alcohol advertising, raising the age limit for alcohol consumption from 18 to 21 years, closing down of all illegal shebeens and those located near schools and places of worship. [Applause.] The interministerial committee will heighten its public awareness efforts, working with Love Life, Soul City and other social partners, highlighting the social costs associated with the harmful use of alcohol. We welcome the initiative taken by Sifunda Languza from Sterkspruit in the Eastern Cape and Bongani Khathi of Imbali Unit 13 in KwaZulu-Natal, to convert shebeens into community centres, thus making a positive contribution. [Applause.] The Department of Social Development, as part of this effort, will intensify the fight against substance abuse by strengthening the Ke Moja campaign to target all vulnerable groups.

As you may be aware, social work is a scarce skill in this country and that puts a strain on our ability to deliver much needed services. In this financial year, we have been allocated R256 million for the Social Work Scholarship Programme. Since 2007, we have trained more than 5 000 social workers through this programme. We are fully aware that for the first time, there is a significant challenge in absorbing newly qualified social workers into the employ of government. This is a matter that we are addressing with our provincial counterparts to ensure that newly qualified social workers are deployed in all areas of need. In addition, we have also started engaging veteran social workers to assist with mentoring the newly qualified social workers, in order ensure dignified service delivery. Shortly, we will launch the Veteran Social Workers Forum as the platform for their re-engagement in active provision of social work services. These veterans are already adding tremendous value in provinces such as the Eastern Cape. May I take this opportunity to acknowledge the presence in the public gallery of the Interim Chairperson of the Veteran Social Workers Forum, Ms Ria Pheega. I also acknowledge the presence of a veteran social worker, a former Member of Parliament and a veteran of our struggle, Comrade Mary Turok. [Applause.]

On the occasion of the celebration of the United Nations International Year of Older Persons, in 1999, Former President Nelson Mandela had this to say: "A society that does not value its older people denies its roots and endangers its future." It is for this reason that we endeavour to promote and protect the rights of older persons. Last October, we supported a successful Older Persons' Forum conference which resolved to amend its constitution and set up local and provincial older persons' for a, in order to encourage the active participation of older persons in matters that affect them. This year, we will again support a follow-up conference, which will adopt a new constitution and also deliberate on the preparations for the Senior Citizens Parliament also to be held later this year in celebration of our centenarians.

Chairperson, last year Minmec approved a policy on the financing of nonprofit organisations, NPOs. This new policy will be implemented on an incremental basis starting this financial year, the purpose of which is to ensure that NPOs deliver on both statutory welfare services and developmental priorities of government. It seeks to make it clear that we fund services to be rendered rather than finance the upkeep of NPOs. In order to improve communication between government and civil society on matters of mutual concern, the department will host a civil society summit in August this year.

Chairperson, as I conclude, I would like to remind this House that social development is the heartbeat of our government and that we strive to live up to this important responsibility. I therefore urge all of us to work together to make today better than yesterday and tomorrow the best day ever. I take this opportunity to thank my colleague, Deputy Minister Ma Ntuli, the director-general, chief executive officers, special advisors and the entire staff of the social development family. Together we can do more. I urge the House to support Budget Vote No 19: Social Development. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Thank you, hon Minister. I know that it is a little disturbing to keep interjecting, but we are trying to have you wind up so that you can conclude smoothly. I know, at least, that it is quite disturbing. We do not want to jump at you and say that your time has expired. We think it is worse than just that. Just also a word of advice to our guests: I know that we like to applaud good things, but this time the rule says that you can let the hon members here applaud on your behalf. You should just watch and listen. It if is good, they will applaud, and they are doing it on your behalf. You'll just watch. You can see that I am also not applauding, so it is not a bad thing just to watch and not applaud. Let the hon members do it for you.

Mrs Y R BOTHA /Mia / END OF TAKE

UNREVISED HANSARD

EPC – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

Wednesday, 2 May 2012 Takes: 395 & 396

"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,02 May 2012,"[Take-333333384] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"

Ms P TSHWETE

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, before I get excited...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Oh, please don't! [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: ... I must acknowledge the presence of the MECs from almost all the provinces. The MEC from the Eastern Cape, hon Pemmy Majodina, MEC Mokomela-Mothibi from the North West [Applause], MEC Botes from the Northern Cape, MEC Fritz from the Western Cape, MEC Dr Norman Mabasa from Limpopo, MEC Thusi from KwaZulu-Natal, and I can see that MEC Mayathula is gone.

Firstly, let me also thank all the contributions and accept those criticisms that are constructive. I have a few issues that I would like to raise.

Firstly, the issue of... of the issues... some of the issues that the DA has been raising, are issues that you have been asked from the department and we have responded to questions and you are saying them as they are. I really think that we need innovation. We need new ideas; we need constructive ideas. So repeating things that we have said to you are our challenges is not going to take us forward. So let's move a bit forward.

So, one other thing... you want to talk about the DA government. You know, there are things that are happening here that I have been following – the issue of staffing in the department here in the province. There is a programme called "Fit for purpose" that our people have interpreted as, that for purpose. They are translating it like that because Africans are replaced by white people. [Interjections.]

I think we should look into that because, right now in the department in the province, there are three Africans and three other groups and then nine whites at senior management staff level. [Interjections.]

I have been doing a follow up. If there are opportunities for everyone, let there be opportunities for everyone.

And then, the issue of social workers... We can't just wait and not implement the Children's Act because they are not in our social workers. Otherwise we won't go and work.

Furthermore, we have been trying... do you know that while we try to look at things, you just come up and destroy all that.

The MEC in the last Minmec raised the issue of interns... that qualified social workers in the province are going to be interns. You know, we were still looking into the possibility of that, but now you are forcing us to say this is in contrast with working conditions. You can't be a professional social worker, go to school, and be made an intern thereafter. This is against workers' rights.

Now, because you are not raising these issues or not discussing in good faith, we have to raise these issues here. So, these are qualified professionals and you want to employ them as interns and this is going to disillusion social workers. We are saying social work is a scarce skill, and we have asked for funding from Treasury. They are going to think that we are joking because the same thing that we are prioritising, you are turning it into something else.

The advice centres... they have played a role in keeping communities together. You are saying those offices are not important. You have closed them, and they were helping people to understand their rights – both horizontal and vertical rights.

They are closed now, and we know that our people from rural areas townships, and farming areas do not understand their rights? Is that not a loss?

[Interjection.]

I don't want to talk a lot about substance abuse. [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order, please! Order!

[Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order, hon members, please!

[Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Where is this?

[Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon members, order! And... [Interjections.] Hon members, order!

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: I've lost close to more than a... [Inaudible.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): I see that! [Laughter.] Hon members, could we refrain from throwing these insulting words around, please! Can we stop doing that? Can we behave like the hon members that we are? Hon Minister, continue. I sense that you... [Inaudible.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Last year, we visited a number of areas here in the Western Cape when we were dealing with or mobilising around substance abuse. Funding has been taken from NGOs in black areas. Why has it been taken?

[Interjection.]

Yes, they are black areas. We've been to those areas. I was there, and yes, it is happening.

[Interjections.]

It is happening; I was there. [Interjection.]

An HON MEMBER: You are misleading this House.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: We are being misled if it is you. [Interjections.] I am being misled if it is you.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon Minister, can you please take your seat. [Interjections.] I think some of us are doing this deliberately, and I am asking for the last time for you to please be orderly. Otherwise I am going to request the Speaker to write your own principles, because you are doing some of these things deliberately. On both sides. I can hear from both sides that it is being done deliberately. The Minister is responding. I thought this was an occasion for the Minister to respond so that we hear what the Minister is saying about the issues we were raising. Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this?

An HON MEMBER: Because she's blind.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon Minister, please continue.

Mr M R SAYEDALI SHAH: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: We are having this commotion because if you make an allegation, if you say something then you to substantiate it. That is why you have a problem. If you say something that... you need to substantiate it. If you can't substantiate it, don't say it.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): That is not a point of order.

Mrs B M NTULI: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: I think it is high time that the members on the other side should refrain from this issue of... [Inaudible.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Please, that it not a point of order.

An HON MEMBER: Sit down! Bad start!

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana):Hon Minister, please continue.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: If you are so concerned about the children, why did you not pay for caregivers for the ECD conference? We had to scrape for the money for caregivers to attend the conference in the Eastern Cape.

An HON MEMBER: The Eastern Cape?

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT (Ms B O Dlamini): Yes, in the Eastern Cape. It was a national conference.

An HON MEMBER: God, of all places!

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: And then, Sassa... we are going... poor people who migrate across the country do so for many reasons. We cannot, in the year 2012, go back to policies that seek to block migration – as was the case under apartheid.

"Old Assembly Main",Unrevised Hansard,02 May 2012,"[Take-333333396] [Old Assembly Main][90P-4-082A][gs].doc"

We cannot in the year 2012 go back to policies that seek to block migration as it was in the case under apartheid. South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, will pay people wherever they are. I hope that people who moved to the Western Cape will not be called refugees. [Applause.]

Therefore we must stop stigmatising people and not bringing racism and demeaning works. We should not label our people. I hope you are going to support us in fighting all forms of discrimination and stigmatisation.

Regarding the issue of the Child Protection Register, we have been saying in a number a number of times that in this country there are loss and the its precedence that has been set in order country is that when you convict a person you have to go through courts again. You will have to follow the process before you declare a person as not fit to work with children. So, it is also not proper for us to come here and make noises when we know that there are processes that we all agreed to.

We cannot in the year 2012 go back to the...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): You have two minutes, hon Minister.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT (Ms B O Dlamini): Now I don't want to go to the debates on a child support grant creating dependency. We've brought 50 children living in child-headed households from all provinces. You can talk to them about the impact on support grant. This is about protection.

One other thing is that next week we are launching a report on the impact on child support in South Africa. We hope that you will be part of that because we have done random study on children from 10 years of age who are from five provinces. Therefore next week we will hear the outcome of the report. Nevertheless, the research indicates that children who receive the grant in their first two years of life show improvements in their heights compared to those who access the grant later. Since children cognitive development depends on receiving upgrade nutrition in the first few years, the research proves that child support grant is valued as a tool for investing in a child's future, human capital development and therefore our country's future. So, this is not about wasting money; it is responding to the challenges and demands that our ordinary people are having. Those challenges are not facing them only, but the whole country.

We have already discussed other issues. With regard to the HIV and Aids issue, the UNAIDS has agreed that South Africa is one of the leading countries when it comes to the fight against HIV and Aids. So, we can't say that our programme is not working. What is good is that the ANC-led government has led global community to explicitly acknowledge that all people, including the affected groups, such as men who have sex with other men, people who inject drugs and sex workers, need to access treatment, care and support. I thank you. [Time expired.]

House Chairperson, we have a cocktail at Marks Building and we would like to invite all Members of Parliament to join us so that they can have an opportunity to talk with vulnerable children. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Thank you, hon Minister. Before we conclude the debate, I am requested to say that there is a register which is missing here. Whoever has that register can bring it to me. Thank you. Here is the register.

Debate concluded.

The Committee rose at 18:25.

nvs & VM/ END OF TAKE

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