Hansard: Members' Statements

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 17 Aug 2011

Summary

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 18 August 2011 Take: 422

THURSDAY, 18 AUGUST 2011

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

The House met at 14:05.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

NOTICES OF MOTION

START OF DAY

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mrs A STEYN: Speaker, on behalf of the DA I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House–

(1) debates the ongoing crisis caused by government's repeated failure to conduct the audit on state land, and the land invasions, disrepair and mismanagement of state-owned land that have resulted from this failure; and

(2) proposes solutions to this crisis in order to ensure that suitable state-owned land can be earmarked for land reform purposes.

Mr H T MAGAMA

Mrs A STEYN

Mr H T MAGAMA Speaker, on behalf of the ANC I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House debates the increase in access of the Occupational Directed Programme in the needed areas and expanding the availability of the intermediate level skills with a special focus on artisan skills.

Mr K S MUBU

Mr H T MAGAMA

Mr K S MUBU: Speaker, on behalf of the DA I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House debates the South African government's position on Libya in terms of the political crisis and the roll of the African Union with regard to post-conflict resolution.

Mr B A RADEBE

Mr K S MOBU

Mr B A RADEBE: Speaker, on behalf of the ANC I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House debates the response of the South African government and the regional formations to aiding Somalia.

Dr L L BOSMAN

Mr B A RADEBE

Dr L L BOSMAN: Speaker, on behalf of the DA I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House-

(1) debates the extent to which adequate disaster management plans are in place across the country, and

(2) comes up with mechanisms to improve the response of government and relevant role-players during disasters.

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

NOTICES OF MOTION

GOOD WISHES TO ACCOMPANY OSCAR PISTORIUS AND REST OF TEAM SA TO ATHLETICS WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS

(Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House-

(1) notes the inclusion of Oscar Pistorius in the 26 athletes picked by Athletics South Africa to represent South Africa at the World Championships;

(2) further notes that he will be the first amputee athlete to compete at these championships, when he represents South Africa in South Korea;

(3) acknowledges that 11 of South Africa's athletes will be attending the World Championships for the first time and wishes all 26 athletes well in this competition;

(4) congratulates Mr Pistorius for his tenacity, for his desire to push boundaries, for his belief in his abilities, and wishes him well during the competition; and

(5) wishes the whole of Team SA the best of luck, and hopes that the team will make South Africa proud.

Agreed to.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

MOTION WITHOUT NOTICE - Mr M J ELLIS

CONGRATULATIONS TO FIRST SOUTH AFRICAN FEMALE MARINE PILOTS

(Draft Resolution)

THE DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House–

(1) notes that three South African women have set the standard in Africa by becoming the first black female marine pilots on the continent to gain open licences, enabling them to navigate ships of all sizes and types into local waters;

(2) further notes that Precious Dube, Bongiwe Mbambo and Pinky Zungu are three of only five female marine pilots in South Africa, tasked with guiding ships through dangerous or congested waters, such as harbours; and

(3) congratulates these three women on their remarkable achievement.

Agreed to.

The SPEAKER: Are there any further Motions without Notice? You may take your seat, hon member, if there are no additional motions.

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, I am always prepared to propose any motion you like, but there is something ...

The SPEAKER: No, please take your seat, hon member. I am happy that there are no more motions. [Laughter.]

MOTION OF CONDOLENCE -The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

THE DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

(The late Mr M H Fazzie)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker, I move the motion printed in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party on the Order Paper as follows:

That the House–

(1) notes with deep sadness the death of ANC struggle veteran and former Member of Parliament, Mr Henry Fazzie, who died after a short illness in hospital at Port Alfred in the Eastern Cape at the age of 87;

(2) further notes that Mr Fazzie was among the first representatives of the ANC in Parliament during the era of former President Nelson Mandela and served for more than 10 years;

(3) remembers that he was one of the volunteers of the ANC who spearheaded the formation of the military wing of the ANC, Umkhonto weSizwe, in the 1960s;

(4) further remembers that Mr Fazzie was part of the leadership of the Port Elizabeth Black Civic Organisation, PEBCO, who organised the consumer boycott in the 1980s, made the western part of the Eastern Cape ungovernable, culminating in the collapse of black local authorities in the mid 1980s, and played an important role in the activities of the United Democratic Front and the Release Mandela Campaign;

(5) recalls that he also served a number of years in prison during the apartheid years, serving 20 years in prison under , which was later, on appeal, reduced to 12 years;

(6) believes that Mr Fazzie played a crucial role in the liberation of South Africa from the tyranny of apartheid to a united, nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa; and

(7) conveys its heartfelt condolences to the Fazzie family, his wife, children and grandchildren, the ANC and the Alliance.

Agreed to.

Mr S B FARROW

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

Mr S B FARROW: Speaker, it is a great honour for me to stand here today to pay tribute to the hon Henry Fazzie. He had all the characteristics of a true struggle veteran, having sacrificed over 21 years of his life on Robben Island and having gone through the rank and file of the United Democratic Front, UDF, where he was deputy secretary, and the ANC, which he joined in 1949.

He came to Parliament in 1994, and I first got to know him in 1999, when he served on the Portfolio Committee on Transport. With both of us coming from the Eastern Cape, we immediately struck up a friendship, which often got us talking about his smallholding, the weather, his garden and his livestock.

We had something else in common - at that stage we both drove the same cars. He often shocked me when he told me how fast he had driven from Port Elizabeth to Cape Town for a meeting that day. I think he wanted to beat the scheduled flight. I have a horrible feeling that he didn't like flying that much, but he certainly flew in his Cressida. I used to tease him about this, saying that as a stalwart of our Portfolio Committee on Transport, he shouldn't travel that fast and should set an example for the rest of the motorists in our country. I emphasised that he was now getting too old to travel at those speeds, which he just laughed at.

Hon Fazzie and my association with him in the transport portfolio also spilled over into the Parmed Medical Aid Scheme, where he served as a continuity member of the board of trustees. This was when he missed coming back to Parliament for a short period after the 2009 elections.

His jovial nature and gentlemanly features with his-never-to-be-forgotten hat will always remain as a permanent memory to me and, I am sure, all of his friends and colleagues who respected him as I did. His presence in these corridors will be sadly missed. May I therefore on behalf of the DA express our sincere condolences and sympathies to his wife, Buyiswa, his seven children and 21 grandchildren and great-grandchildren, not forgetting, of course, his friends and colleagues in the ANC, which I know he served with honour and distinction. Hamba kahle, Tata Fazzie. [Good bye.] May your soul rest in peace.

Mr L J TOLO

Mr S B FARROW

Sepedi:

Mr L J TOLO: Re bolela ka monna wa go tšea gabotse, yo e lego gore ke ipona ke le ke emego ntšhe ka bophelo bja gagwe. Fazzie ke thomile go mo tseba ka 1994 ge re fihla mo go fihlela lehono. Se ke ratago go se bontšha ke gore, ge re bala mangwalo, mo go Ditiro 16: 20-28, e bolela ka Poulo yo a ilego a ya kgolegong ya mamathing kua Roma, gomme o ile a ya kgolegong maikemišetšo a gagwe e le go lokolla setšhaba bokgobeng.

Fazzie o ile a ya Robben Island maikemišetšo a gagwe e e le go lokolla batho bokgobeng. O ka se bolele ka Poulo gore e be e le mogale, wa se bolele ka Fazzie. Mo go Kutullo 1:9, Johannes o ile a tšewa a išwa sehlakahlakeng sa Patmous, ka ge a be a thulantšha mmušo wa kgatelelo wa mmuši wa pele e lego Herote. Fazzie le yena o ile a tšewa a išwa sehlakahlakeng sa Robben Island. Ka mangwe mantšu o swanetš go bona gore o ka se bolele ka boPoulo le boJohannes ka mo bebeleng wa lebala go bolela ka Fazzie go swana le bona.

Ka mantšu amngwe, ke nyaka go le bontšha gore mokgalabje wo, e be e le motho yo bogale, wa maikarabelo ao e lego gore lehono ge o ka lebelela maloba ge go be go le kotsi, le rena baruti re be re nale poifo ya go thulantšha aparteiti ka bontšhi. Re be re nale poifo. Fela Fazzie, le ge gole bjalo, o ile a emelela a kwišiša gore o swanetše gore a re hwele. Go bile ka tsela ya mohuta woo.

Ba lekgotla la ANC, re le ba Cope, re kwele bohloko mmogo le lena. Ke ngwana a beegwa, ke wa batswadi ba babedi – ke wa monna le mosadi. Efela ge a hlokofala, ke wa rena kamoka ga rena. Ka gona, go robala ga Fazzie go bohloko go rena, re lla le lena, re na le lena, re kwele bohloko go swana le lena. Ke dumela gore ba gaFazzie ba tsebe gore mokgotsi e mogolo wa Fazzie e be e le nna. Ke ile go kwa ke lefu la gagwe, ka ba founela ke botšiša gore go direga eng, ba hlatholla gore ga a se le gona, o robetše. Ke nyaka go bonšha gore ke lla le lena.

Mangwalo a makgethwa...o momgwe a seke a re ga re ka kerekeng, ee ga re ka kerekeng, re ka gare ga Ngwako. Fela ke bolediša ke gore Fazzie ga a fapane felo le BoJohannes le –Poulo. Re tšea gore banna le basdi ba maatla be ba le kua boRoma le –Isiraele. Le gona mo ba bile gona ba ba swanago le boPoulo le –Johannes; ke bo mokgalabje Fazzie.

Re re o ikgatile tema ya gagwe, re mo. E ke toro ya ga Fazzie go rena re šetšego re e tšwetše pele ka khutšo. Moya wa gagwe a o robale ka khutšo modimo a mo gaugela. Ke a leboga. [Legoswi.]

Mr M B SKOSANA

Mr L J TOLO

Mr M B SKOSANA: Mr Speaker, hon members, I stand before this House on behalf of the IFP and its president, Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, to offer solemn words of sympathy to the dear family and friends of the late struggle veteran, Mr Fazzie, and to the community of the ANC for this loss.

I will not talk about Mr Fazzie's magnanimous and heroic deeds in the struggle for the liberation of our people from oppression. There are hon members in this House who can talk about that with penetrating eloquence and emotions befitting the occasion. I will not give an account of the courageous sacrifices he made, alongside many others, for us to enjoy these freedoms and liberties. There are those among his close comrades who can give such testimony with unequivocal authority.

However, when I silently reminisce about my early stay here in the city, particularly in Pelican Park, the parliamentary village, I think of the warm acquaintances I had with the late Henry Makgothi, the late Wilton Mkwayi and, now, with the late Henry Fazzie himself. Therefore words of comfort to us all must come from Spinoza's brief exhortation on or consideration of the Ethics of death. He says:

The universe is stronger than we are. Nature is stronger than we are. This is why we die. To live is to struggle, resist, survive, and no one can do this indefinitely. In the end, we must die, and this is the only end that we can be certain of. To think about death constantly would be to think too much about it. But never to think about it would be to give up thinking. Besides, no one is completely free; no one is supremely wise. This leaves thoughts of death to happy days or gruelling nights, which we must accept.

May the soul of Mr Henry Fazzie rest in peace and may the good Lord comfort those left behind.

Mr N M KGANYAGO

Mr M B SKOSANA

Mr N M KGANYAGO: Speaker and hon members, on behalf of the UDM I would like to extend our heartfelt condolences to the family, the ANC and friends of the late hon Henry Mutile Fazzie, who passed away last weekend. Our hearts go out to you during this hour of grief.

Mr Fazzie played a leading role in organising various consumer boycotts in the 1980s. Like other members of his generation, he spent his life fighting for the liberation of our people.

After a long life devoted to the struggle for liberation, he became a member of South Africa's first democratically elected Parliament in 1994. The democracy we enjoy today, together with its institutions, exist because of the efforts of people like him.

We bid farewell to him and hope that his family will find consolation in the words spoken here today.

Sepedi:

Robala ka khutšo. Iše Morena.

Mrs C DUDLEY

Mr N M KGANYAGO

Mrs C DUDLEY: Speaker, the ACDP joins this House in conveying its sincere condolences to the family and friends of the former Member of Parliament, Mr Henry Fazzie.

The ACDP acknowledges the high esteem in which he was held in terms of the role he played in the struggle for nonracialism, nonsexism and a united and democratic South Africa, and we commend him for his commitment to democracy and social justice.

We take note of the loss to the country's history due to his not having been able to share completely his recollections of the past in the history of the struggle. Mr Fazzie, who served Parliament for more than 10 years, is remembered and we recognise his death as a great loss to the ruling party and South Africa.

Mr K J DIKOBO

Mrs C DUDLEY

Mr K J DIKOBO: Mr Speaker, hon members, the family of the late Comrade Fazzie, yet another stalwart of the liberation struggle has fallen. Comrade Fazzie is no more. In the 1980s, it would have been difficult to talk about the struggle in the Port Elizabeth area without mentioning the name of Comrade Fazzie. He was a tireless and fearless fighter, and he was an inspiration to the younger comrades.

His contribution in the struggle for freedom and his service to the country through the Consumer Boycott Committee, Port Elizabeth Black Civic Organisation and other structures will not be forgotten.

On behalf of Azapo, I would like to convey a message of condolence to his family, friends and his party, the ANC. May his soul rest in peace. [Applause.]

Mr N B FIHLA

Mr K J DIKOBO

Mr N B FIHLA: Hon Speaker, Ministers and Members of Parliament, the ANC is deeply saddened by the death of Comrade Henry Mutile Fazzie in hospital in the Eastern Cape due to illness at the age of 87. Comrade Fazzie was a disciplined and dedicated stalwart of the movement.

This veteran went through the ranks of the ANC, from being a volunteer to a unionist, commander of uMkhonto weSizwe, MK, and Member of Parliament. He proved that he possessed the attributes of a leader and gallant fighter during his military training in the guerrilla warfare in Ethiopia.

His service included military service in uMkhonto weSizwe, a term as vice president of South African National Civics Organisation, Sanco, Member of Parliament and other areas where the ANC saw fit to deploy him.

In addition to his role as a soldier of the movement, he was tasked to facilitate the training and infiltration of guerrillas into the country to carry out acts of sabotage. In the early 1960s he was captured by the South African security forces in the then southern Rhodesia, today known as Zimbabwe, and was transported to South Africa to stand trial.

Consequently, in 1965, Comrade Fazzie was sentenced to 20 years in prison under the Sabotage Act. He served 12 years of his prison term in Robben Island, which had been reduced on appeal. Upon his release, Comrade Fazzie continued being active in the civic movement, the Port Elizabeth Black Civic Organisation, Pebco, from 1983 to 1992, and later as the Sanco national chairperson from 1992 to 1994.

Comrade Fazzie was among the leaders who waged an offensive against the oppressive government through the campaign for the total boycott of white shops in business in Port Elizabeth. These gallant leaders called for the unconditional release of all political leaders and the end of oppression of black people.

When the government declared Port Elizabeth as a hot spot, Comrade Fazzie was among the leaders targeted by the security forces, some of whom were brutally killed, such as the Pebco three, Champion Galela, Qaqawuli Godolozi and Sipho Hashe. It was just fate that due to a last-minute change of plans Comrade Fazzie did not travel with those comrades who were killed by the security forces.

Comrade Fazzie was detained on two occasions in St Alban Prison, first for seven months and consequently for three years. Due to mounting pressure on government over the boycott campaigns, he was released and placed under house arrest. Even though he was banned, he continued to play a critical role in intensifying the struggle towards a non-racial, democratic South Africa. These were leaders in the defiance of that system; a defiance that was displayed when the ANC and SACP flags were hoisted during rallies at the Dan Qeqe Stadium and at funerals of activists murdered by the apartheid police and army. This was lifted when the ANC won a court application. The court ordered that the banning order to be lifted because it was illegal and contained no valid reason or evidence given for it having been issued.

During the advent of the democratic dispensation, Comrade Fazzie was among the first ANC members deployed to serve the interests of the black people of South Africa in the National Parliament. This was a critical moment for Parliament as the legislating arm of the state. Parliament had to legislate in order to give effect to the new democratic dispensation. This meant that all the unjust laws needed to be repealed and amended and new legislation was also to be passed. This was indeed a challenge, and new members had to adjust quickly to the environment. He served his term as a Member of Parliament with distinction. Indeed, this is a great loss to the ANC, family and friends.

Comrade Fazzie leaves behind his wife, Hilda, two children and grandchildren. The ANC extends its heartfelt condolences to the family. May they be consoled by the knowledge that their father, grandfather and husband contributed immensely to the freedom they now have the opportunity to enjoy. May his soul rest in peace.

isiXhosa:

Akuhlanga lungehlanga, tutwini. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

The SPEAKER: I take it that there are no objections to the adoption of the motion by the House. Hon members, you will remember that we usually only observe a moment of silence if a member passes away while in office. We will send the condolences of the House to the family, the ANC and the alliance as a whole. I thank you.

MEMBER STATEMENTS - Nkskz P TSHWETE (ANC

MOTION OF CONDOLENCE – HENRY FAZZIE

CONCERN OVER AND DENUNCIATION OF KILLING OF WOMEN AND THE ELDERLY

(Member's Statement)

Nkskz P TSHWETE (ANC): I-ANC ixhalabile ngamaqondo aphezulu okugetyengwa nokubulawa ngokungenalusini kwabantu abadala, ingakumbi abantu ababhinqileyo, ngexesha sigqiba ukubhiyozela usuku loomama kwinyanga yoomama. Isihelegu esimasikizi sehle kusapho lomfundisi osele ethathe umhlalaphantsi, uMfundisi uQona, kunye nenkosikazi yakhe abathe bagetyengwa ngokumasikizi endlini yabo eDikeni.

Siyi-ANC siyazigxeka zonke iintlobo zolwaphulo-mthetho nobundlongela ezweni lethu. Sikwathembisa ukubuncothula neengcambu zabo ubundlongela, naphi na apho bukhoyo, nokuba benziwa ngubani na.

Umbandela wokulwa ubundlobongela yenye yemiceli-mingeni engundoqo kurhulumente we-ANC. Iinjongo zethu kukuqinisekisa ukhuseleko oluliqilima lwabantu bonke kwiindawo abahlala kuzo.

Kananjalo, siyawabulela amapolisa ngendima ayidlalileyo ngokukhawuleza abambe abarhanelwa abase eluvalelweni. Sithi nangamso kuwo. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Mr N D DU TOIT

Nkskz P TSHWETE

FAILURE OF MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS TO APPEAR BEFORE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE

(Member's Statement)

Mr N D DU TOIT (DA): Speaker, there is no excuse for the no-show of the Minister of Public Works, Gwen Mahlangu Nkabinde, at the meeting of the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Public Works earlier this week - a day after she missed the deadline to respond to the Public Protector's report.

She was due at this committee meeting to respond to the findings of the report and to account for her role in the SAPS lease scandal. The Minister's excuse that she did not attend due to so-called Parliamentary processes is flawed. There is no rule that prevents the Minister from appearing before the committee and her failure to do so has severely undermined the oversight role of Parliament.

Indeed, the Minister must account for her conduct and explain to the House why she did not fully co-operate with the Public Protector and why she approved the SAPS lease agreements, after she had several legal opinions at her disposal which spoke to the contrary.

The executive has full authority to take the required corrective measures, in line with the Public Protector's report and recommendations. The Minister must account for her actions.

The DA will continue to work tirelessly in ensuring that all those implicated in the scandal are brought to book and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It is for this reason that I have written to the portfolio committee's chairperson to exercise our committee's powers to summon the Minister to appear before the committee. [Applause.]

Mr W MADISHA (Cope)

Mr N D DU TOIT (DA)

ATTACK ON CONCOURT JUDGES BY THE ANC

(Member's Statement)

Mr W M MADISHA (Cope): Speaker, Cope is deeply concerned about the attack by the ANC Secretary General on the judges of the Constitutional Court, Concourt. His remarks that Concourt judges were driven by selfish interest and are seen as being in opposition to ...

The SPEAKER: Order, hon members, and please take your seats!

Mr W M MADISHA (Cope): ... the ANC are totally out of line for a ruling party that pledged support to the Constitution and separation of powers between the executive and the judiciary. Comments that the judges are threatening the stability of government are reckless and in line with the kind of pronouncement made in an authoritarian state. Also, his comments on those who expressed concern about the lack of experience of the nominated Chief Justice are racist and outrageous.

Cope calls on the President to tone down the noises coming from the ranks of its party officials. Just as it appears that the President of the Youth League of the ruling party was somewhat silenced, Mr Mantashe makes ridiculous statements that call for the repudiation of the ANC leadership.

Ms M R MORUTOA (ANC)

Mr W M MADISHA (Cope)

GAUTENG INCREASES INTAKE OF STUDENT NURSES

(Member's Statement)

Ms M R MORUTOA (ANC): The ANC welcomes the move and commitment by the Gauteng Department of Health and Social Development to increase the intake of nursing students in the next five years to help build an effective health system. The department is looking at increasing the intake of student nurses by close to 400%, with 2 660 new nursing students expected to be recruited to start training in 2012.

As such, the department will advertise health-science bursaries by the end of August 2011, with the next nurse intake being in January 2012. This is despite the 20% annual increase of students admitted to these colleges for training over the past eight years.

The ANC views health as a one of the key priority areas. Therefore this initiative is in line with the ANC's commitment to improve quality standards for both public and private sectors by providing adequate numbers of workers at all levels of the health care system, including recruitment, training and the filling of vacant posts.

Prof C T MSIMANG (IFP)

Ms M R MORUTOA (ANC)

AIRCRAFT DISASTER IN TZANEEN

(Member's Statement)

Prof C T MSIMANG (IFP): Hon Speaker, the IFP would like to extend its heartfelt condolences to the victims of the recent air disaster north-east of Tzaneen. It has been reported that the aircraft were flying too low and in poor visibility when the crashes occurred.

These accidents claimed the lives of 13 people, including two children and a well-known South African photographer. Loss of life in any circumstance other than natural death is utterly tragic and we trust that the Civil Aviation Authority will conduct a full and thorough investigation into these accidents in order to ensure that accidents such as these do not occur again. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the deceased.

Mr S Z NTAPANE (UDM)

Prof C T MSIMANG (IFP)

DISTURBING INCREASE IN VIOLENT STRIKES

(Member's Statement)

Mr S Z NTAPANE (UDM): There is a growing tendency in South Africa where people derive a seemingly perverse pleasure from acts that are contradictory to the rule of law. Every year we brace ourselves for a strike season that is more often than not characterised by a lawless passion for anarchy, violence and public disorder.

Of concern is that student strikes at our tertiary institutions seem to have assumed the same culture of lawlessness. Violent student strikes have become a regular occurrence in South Africa, with students destroying university and private property with impunity.

While the UDM understands the importance of a dispensation that guarantees the people's right to strike, the government urgently needs to find ways to counter this disturbing phenomenon. Nothing is more disconcerting than watching our future leaders acting in ways that constitute a perversion of the true meaning of democracy.

Prince B Z ZULU (ANC)

Mr S Z NTAPANE (UDM)

LAUNCH OF ENYOKENI SUBSTATION IN KWAZULU-NATAL

(Member's Statement)

IsiZulu:

Umntwana B Z Zulu (ANC): Ekugcizeleleni ukuzinikela kombutho kaKhongolose ekuthuthukiseni izindawo zasemakhaya, uMongameli uNxamalala uvule isikhungo eNyokeni kweleNdlovukazi uMthaniya esibize izigidi ezingama-42 zamarandi.

Abantu abaninigi ezindaweni zasemakhaya KwaZulu-Natali sebenawo ugesi ngenxa yalesi sikhungo esivulwe ngokaNxamalala, njengoba abantu bakwaNongoma abayizi-9 200 sebefakelwe ugesi kule minyaka emithathu eyedlule. Isikhungo lesi saseNyokeni esivulwe uMongameli uJacob Zuma sinamandla wokuphakela imindeni eyi-15 000.

Lolu hlelo luyingxenye yoMnyango Wezamandla kanye nezinhlelo zikaEskom zokubhekana nokuthuthukiswa kwezindawo zasemakhaya, kubhekene ngqo nokufakelwa kukagesi kwabantu bakithi labo ebebe ngenawo esifundeni esifana nesakithi KwaZulu-Natali. Lolu hlelo, Somlomo, lubonisa ukuzinikela kukakhongolose ekuletheni intuthuko emiphakathini yakithi ikakhulukazi leyo eyakhe ezindaweni zasemakhaya. Ngiyabonga.

Mrs C DUDLEY (DA)

Prince B Z ZULU (ANC)

GREEN PAPER ON NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE

(Member's Statement)

Mrs C DUDLEY) (ACDP): Speaker, the ACDP welcomes the Green Paper on the National Health Insurance. We recognise the desperate need for a radical turnaround in the delivery of health services. We are optimistic that, with all stakeholders applying their experience and expertise, we could move from merely repeating problems to actually delivering the much-needed quality health services to all.

The immediate response tends to be: Yes, but we cannot afford it. While this may be true, we certainly can't afford not to do all in our power to see that we can. Everyone deserves quality health care and financing is always a problem.

The national health insurance, NHI, is a tried-and-tested mechanism which attempts to give cover to all. Of course, our experience and our needs will be uniquely our own, but even so, the fact that we can benefit from the trials, errors and successes of other countries is a definite advantage - if we are not too proud to learn and benefit.

Having observed the United Kingdom, UK, National Health System from near and far - for even the most limited period of time - I am encouraged that as monstrous as the task seems, it really could work. It really could bring much-needed relief in an area where we are struggling to get right.

It is also interesting to me that one of our biggest concerns is always that we will lose more doctors and nurses than we already have. Clearly, if we don't do something, nothing will change. The reality in the UK is that doctors and nurses moved towards the National Health System, not away from it.

The present health care system is extremely expensive and unsustainable. However, firstly, there needs to be a radical improvement in the quality of health care services in public health facilities, which will require massive investment and improvement of health infrastructure, both buildings and equipment. The first five years of NHI will focus on piloting and strengthening the health care system.

Once the NHI is implemented, it will become mandatory and offer all South Africans and legal residents access to a defined package of comprehensive health care. It will be piloted in 2012 to test how the service benefits will be designed, how the population will be covered and how the services will be delivered. A conditional grant will be provided for this purpose and no NHI contributions will be required in 2012. [Time expired.]

Mr S MOKGALAPA (DA)

Mrs C DUDLEY

CONDEMNATION BY UN ON SYRIA

(Member's Statement)

Mr S MOKGALAPA (DA): Hon Speaker, the DA welcomes the recommendation by the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, to the United Nations Security Council that the Syrian government be investigated by the International Criminal Court in light of what they believe to be a grave violation of human rights in Syria.

Pro-democracy protests in Syria have been met with contempt by that government, which has violently cracked down on its own people's call for democracy during the last five months. An estimated 2 000 civilians have been killed at the hands of the Syrian government since the protest erupted, and a further 4 000 refugees have fled to Turkey during this period in the wake of brutality. The DA strongly believes that the International Criminal Court will investigate the situation in a serious attempt to put an end to the violence.

We call upon the South African government to use its nonpermanent position in the United Nations Security Council to support this effort. As a country, young in its democracy, it is our duty to support the peaceful democratisation of other countries, especially those that look to the international community for support, as we ourselves have done in the past.

Ms A Z NDLAZI (ANC)

Mr S MOKGALAPA (DA)

ANC WELCOMES THE REVISED PRESS FREEDOM COMMISSION TERMS OF REFERENCE

(Member's Statement)

Ms A Z NDLAZI (ANC): The ANC welcomes the revised terms of reference of the Press Freedom Commission, PFC. We believe that the scope of work outlined in the revised terms of reference will go a long way in improving press governance and accountability, particularly in the print media.

The PFC's revised terms of reference will, among others, included the conducting of research of the regulation of the print media, locally and globally. The revised framework will also research self-regulation, co-regulation and independent regulation, as well as state regulation.

Within the above-mentioned accountability mechanisms, we are pleased that the Press Freedom Commission will come up with the best accountability mechanism or framework suitable for our country and in conformity with our progressive Constitution.

As the ANC, we still believe in the need for an appeals accountability mechanism in the event of ordinary South Africans being unhappy with the outcomes of the press self-regulatory accountability mechanism. We believe that the media appeals accountability mechanism should provide recourse in the event where the South Africans are not happy with the outcomes of the self-regulatory mechanism. Such media appeals accountability should not be a prepublished censorship, but it should conform to our constitutional principles and should not be beholden to the media, the state and commercial interests.

We therefore believe that the self-regulatory system or framework is able to coexist and be complemented by the appeals accountability mechanism. [Applause.]

Mr A M MPONTSHANE (IFP)

Ms A Z NDLAZI (ANC)

FINANCIAL CRISIS AT THE WALTER SISULU UNIVERSITY

(Member's Statement)

Mr A M MPONTSHANE (IFP): Hon Speaker, the Walter Sisulu University is in the intensive care unit, ICU. The cash-strapped university staff and lecturers have downed tools and lectures have ground to a halt over the nonpayment of salaries. Both the vice chancellor, Professor Marcus Malusi Balintulo, and the council chairperson, Dr Somadoda Fikeni, have admitted that the institution is facing a serious financial crisis.

These developments have the potential to seriously compromise the academic integrity and reputation of the university and the field of higher education in South Africa as a whole. It also points to a possible serious problem in the governance and financial management of the university, which is undermining the effective functioning of the institution.

While the IFP welcomes the announcement that Minister Blade Nzimande has ordered a probe into the crisis of the university, the department is reportedly saying that they will and are still in the process of identifying a suitable person to conduct an audit. We want to argue that this is not good enough. The IFP urges the Department of Higher Education and Training to expedite the process and the probe so that challenges can be identified and the way forward be agreed upon and, if necessary, to place the institution under administration and that this must be treated as a matter of urgency.

Mr G B D MCINTOSH (Cope)

Mr A M MPONTSHANE (IFP)

WORK OF PUBLIC PROTECTOR IN BROADER CONTEXT

(Member's Statement)

Mr G B D MCINTOSH (Cope): Mr Speaker, Cope welcomes the call by the Public Prosecutor, Thuli Madonsela, to boost her office's functions, resources and outreach programmes in the Limpopo province. With its 5 million citizens, Limpopo Province has one office of the PP, in Polokwane, with a staff of 16, half of whom make up the investigation unit. Cope agrees that there are capacity problems to be addressed.

Recently, the province has been riddled by a number of allegations of corrupt activities from the Premier's Office, right down to suspicious tender procurements, allegedly influenced by Julius Malema and his family trust. [Interjections.] Calls were made to Thuli Madonsela's office to investigate delays in the processing of identity documents, abuse of social welfare grants, shoddy and incomplete housing and road projects, among other infringements.

With the increasing amount of work that the PP has been involved in and the media glare on its activities and pronouncements, it is the constitutional right of the people of Limpopo to be serviced optimally by this office. [Interjections.]

Prof B TUROK: On a point of order: I think the hon member should address the House correctly. Adv Thuli Madonsela is the Head of the Public Protector, not of the public prosecutor. When speaking about her, we should use the appropriate title. She is an advocate and that will show respect in this House. [Applause.]

Mr G B D MCINTOSH: Mr Speaker, my apologies to the hon member.

Ms J MANGANYE (ANC)

Mr G B D MCINTOSH (Cope)

HOUSING PROJECT FOR THE HOMELESS IN NORTH WEST

(Member's Statement)

Ms J MANGANYE (ANC): The North West provincial government, which is led by the ANC, is set to change the lives of homeless people in that province in its bid to increase access to secure, decent housing for all through government's newly adopted housing programme. It has set aside R23 million to help them get decent homes.

This housing development project is meant for informal settlement dwellers of Reagile Township, Redirile and Derby, outside Korster. It is expected to commence soon and 129 units will be built.

This initiative is in line with the assertion contained in the clause in the Freedom Charter that says there shall be houses, security and comfort. The clause stipulates:

Slums shall be demolished, and new suburbs built where all have transport, roads, lighting, playing fields, crèches and social centres.

Xitsonga:

Hi khensa mfumo wa North West loko wu vonile swi fanerile ku endlela vaaki va wona swo antswa.

Mnr N J VAN DEN BERG

Ms J MANGANYE

MISMANAGEMENT OF THE SABC

(Member's Statement)

Mnr N J VAN DEN BERG (DA): Mnr die Speaker, die regering kan gerus selfondersoek doen oor die benarde, terminale toestand van die SAUK. Terloops, baie geluk, SAUK met die 75ste verjaardag. Jammer dat julle dit in die intensiewe sorgeenheid moes vier.

Die personeel se moed is gebreek, omdat die bestuur van die SAUK die organisasie ondergrawe. Die personeel is die belangrikste bate van die uitsaaier. Hulle moet gekoester, omarm en mooi na gekyk word. Indien die werkers knak, is alles verby.

Die regerende party moet homself afvra hoekom die finansies van die SAUK 'n sinkende skuitjie in die oseaan is. Die finansiële situasie is erger as beroerd.

Daar was al tien direkteur-generale, DGs, of hoofuitvoerende amptenare, sedert 1994. Die SAUK-raadslede het met 'n eentonige reëlmaat gekom en gegaan. Voorsitters het verskyn en net so vinnig weer verdwyn. Dis nie snaaks dat daar al weer 'n vakature op die raad is nie.

Dit is waar dat die Parlement raadslede aanbeveel vir goedkeuring deur die President, maar wie het altyd die laaste sê oor wie die SAUK beheer? Die ANC besluit wie op die raad dien en wie die hoof uitvoerende beampte is. In wese besluit die ANC dus hoe die SAUK bestuur moet word. Wie is dus verantwoordelik vir die swak besluite? Wie kan onderliggend, in wese, nie bestuur nie?

Daar is briljante mense in ons land wat die SAUK en land met graagte sou wil dien, maar hulle is dalk nie gedienstige Neelsie genoeg na die regering se sin nie. Dalk is dit tot die regering se voordeel dat die SAUK as openbare uitsaaier uiteindelik sink. Dan kan die staat behoorlik finansieel ingryp, die finansieringsmodel hervorm en, siedaar, die SAUK is nou ten volle 'n staatsuitsaaier wat na die belange van die staat omsien en nie die mense nie. [Applous.]

Ms S T NDABENI

Mnr N J VAN DEN BERG

SABC CELEBRATES 75TH BIRTHDAY

(Member's Statement)

Ms S T NDABENI (ANC): Hon Speaker, the South African Broadcasting Co-operation celebrated its 75th year of existence on 01 August 2011. South Africans, our public broadcaster has moved from being a bilingual radio station in Afrikaans and English to the current 18 radio stations in all 11 official languages and three television channels.

The public broadcaster has continued to excel in keeping South African citizens educated, informed, entertained and inspired throughout the year. The ANC therefore congratulates the national public broadcaster for leading us to its 75th birthday.

IsiXhosa:

Khula SABC khula. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS - Ms S T NDABENI

BRUTAL MURDER IN ALICE

NEWSPAPER ARTICLE REGARDING JUDGE MOGOENG

ACDP WELCOMES NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE GREEN PAPER

WORK OF PUBLIC PROTECTOR IN BROADER CONTEXT

(Minister's Response)

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION (Mr T MANUEL): Chairperson, I would like to respond to afew statements. The first is the hon Dunjwa's statement on the brutal murder in Alice.

I think that part of what we must do is to take these kinds of examples and raise the profile of values and ethics in society. It is important that Parliament pauses and takes note of the murder, but also of other events, such as the one recorded on the front page of the Sowetan on Monday. Society is in need of a wider discourse about values and mutual respect, and it is something that I believe Parliament should be involved with.

In respect of what the hon Madisha said, I want to invite him to read the Sowetan - not the headlines but the Sowetan article itself - because if he read what the secretary-general, Mr Mantashe, said, he would not have said what he did in his statement this afternoon. I do not know what his source of information is, but it clearly is not the article on page two of the Sowetan. What the secretary-general of the ANC was saying was that it was unfair to suggest that Justice Mogoeng was too immature or had too little experience, because he had been a judge since 1997.

In the context of the President having called for restraint in the ad hominem attacks on Judge Mogoeng, it is important that we have a rational discourse about it. Moreover, what the secretary-general said - and it should be in the interest of all of us in Parliament - is that we should be concerned about judicial activism which will, in fact, undermine trias politica and overtake the responsibilities of Parliament in lawmaking. Those are the concerns raised, and they are not the kinds of issues that the hon Madisha purports the secretary-general said or attributes to him.

I am very encouraged by the hon Dudley's statement on National Health Insurance, the NHI. South African doctors have left to join the National Health Service, NHS, in the UK and the publicly funded health system in Canada. Now, we can keep them at home and we can all do this together.

However, it is necessary that we, as South Africans, recognise the importance of the provision of health for all, in the letter and spirit of the Constitution. Let us deal with the issues and accept the principle. Then we can work through the detail, learning as we proceed, and being committed to learn and undertake that learning process. So, I thank you and the ACDP very much for your commitment.

On the issue raised by the hon McIntosh – it is McIntosh, not Makhathini, but McIntosh – ... [Laughter.] ... I just want to caution that we should not get too hot under the collar. When individuals go around the country campaigning for more money for what they do outside of a budget process, then we should be concerned. When they also campaign for all kinds of bodyguards, police escorts and so on, we should be a little bit concerned. So, let us not be too excited. Let us look at the work of the Public Protector in the broader context. That is within the realm of what Parliament should do in budgetary oversight.

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISION

THE DEVELOPMENT OF OUR HEALTH PROFESSIONALS

INVESTIGATION INTO AIR CRASH IN LIMPOPO

CALLS MADE BY UN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSIONER REGARDING SRI LANKA

APPOINTMENT OF PERSON TO CONDUCT INVESTIGATION AT WALTER SISULU UNIVERSITY AND TSHWANE UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY

(Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Hon Speaker, I would like to comment on the welcome development with respect to health professionals, which was referred to by the hon member of the ANC. We certainly are determined, as government, to ensure that we provide resources for the increased training of health professionals in South Africa, in particular nurses, auxiliary health support staff, as well as doctors. We are very pleased that the hon member noted the additional resources being provided for such training in the form of bursaries and scholarships.

Secondly, we agree with the hon member from the IFP that the Civil Aviation Authority needs to carry out a full investigation into the airplane crash that occurred in Limpopo, and we extend our condolences to the families that have lost loved ones in this terrible tragedy.

With respect to the calls made by the UN Human Rights Commissioner regarding Sri Lanka, of course we say that all breaches of human rights need to be attended to and that the rights of citizens to participate in free democratic activity must be observed by all countries in the world. This is the position that our government holds and we would attach to that.

We also agree with the ANC that we do need appeals accountability mechanisms that ensure that citizens' rights are upheld while we continue to uphold respect for freedom of expression and media freedom in our country.

Finally, I thought that the Minister of Higher Education had already appointed a person to investigate matters at Walter Sisulu University, as well as an appointment with respect to the Tshwane University of Technology. I will check the name, but I thought it was Professor Ncayiyana. I will check and will be able to provide the hon member of the IFP with information. I know that the Minister of Higher Education is taking this matter very, very seriously.

Setswana:

Re itumela thata Modulasetilo fa re utlwa gore mmuso wa rona wa Bokone Bophirima o lebeletse gore re thusa batho ba rona jang ka go ba neela dintlo tse di tshwanetseng re leka go rarabolola mathata a batho ba ba senang dintlo, segolobogolo fa re leba diterotswana jaaka Koster le Derby.

Re itumela thata fa re bona mmuso o o tshwarweng ke mme e bile ka mme a tshwara thipa ka fa bogaleng. Ke ene yo o dirang gore batho ba rona ba nne le dintlo tse di ikemetseng tse di dirang gore le bone e nne batho ba ba nang le seriti mme ba ipona ba thusiwa ke mmuso wa rona wa Aforikaborwa wa ANC. Ke a itumela Sebui.

The SPEAKER: That concludes the Ministerial responses. I was not inviting you to leave, Minister, I was just saying the responses are finished. [Laughter.]

Dr J C KLOPPERS-LOURENS: Speaker, on a point of order. I know that we have two formidable Ministers here, but according to the Rules, we actually have one Minister or a Deputy Minister or a Minister in the same portfolio who can respond to member statements. I believe that it is important for this House that all members, including members of executive, observe the Rules of the House. Thank you.

The SPEAKER: I am not sure of that, but I will check the Hansard and come back with a ruling on that issue.

SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION – Ms T B SUNDUZA

MINISTER'S RESPONSES

THE REVITALISATION OF INDIGENOUS LANGUAGES

(Subject for Discussion)

Ms T B SUNDUZA: Hon Speaker, hon guests and members, thank you very much.

IsiHlubi:

Ndicela kuthi kuni, irholeni. Niyaphila bo? Ekhethu siyaphila. Akhe simamelane.

English:

I have just spoken isiHlubi, which is the language that I speak at home, and unfortunately I can see that hon members cannot understand what I have just said.

I would like to quote Nelson Mandela, who once said:

If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head, but if you talk to him in his own language, that goes to his heart.

The National Conference of the ANC at Polokwane took a decision that indigenous languages be promoted at all schools, with the aim of learners being taught in their mother tongue. We link the development of indigenous languages with the liberation of our country from the legacy of apartheid.

The concept of indigenous languages refers to Sesotho, Setswana, siSwati, Tshivenda, Xitsonga, Afrikaans, English, isiHlubi, IsiZulu and many other languages. I mention Afrikaans because we must take cognisance of the fact that Afrikaans is also an indigenous language. There are other indigenous languages that are called dialects by those who are learned, for example isiMpondo, isiBhaca, Khelobedu, Nama and Xirikwa.

My focus inter alia is on the promotion of indigenous languages and multilingualism in schools and tertiary institutions in our country. The reality of the situation in our country is that English is promoted virtually at all levels of society, at the expense of this country's indigenous languages. This causes problems particularly for students who do not speak English as their first language. It also promotes the perception that citizens and students who are not English speaking are inferior and not entitled to equal treatment.

Even at places of work, some companies force African employees to speak English. Recently, employees who were speaking Xitsonga were fired. Teachers also contribute to this, because they tell children that they must first understand English, and that English must be spoken, even at home. If you go into African homes today, you will find that the culture is in decline. The children cannot speak any African language. They only speak English.

The Constitution recognises all 11 official languages of South Africa. These were all provided for by the Ready to Govern document of the ANC in 1992. Both the Ready to Govern document and the Constitution recognise the historically diminished use and status of the indigenous languages of our people.

Increasing pressure is being brought to bear on speakers of indigenous languages in order for them to receive instruction in our schools and universities in only one South African language that is not an indigenous language. Research shows that the African continent is the only continent where the majority of children start their schooling in a foreign language. Surely this must result in poor education and the marginalisation of our continent.

You can express yourself better in your own home language. In government interviews, our own African people perform poorly because they are forced to speak English. It does not mean that the person does not know the job; the person fails the interview because they are forced to speak English. It is not that you are stupid, but the moment you speak English, people think you are clever. It is just a language!

Children from Afrikaans-speaking homes go to school, speak English at school and when they return home, they speak Afrikaans. I do not see why it is a challenge for our own Africans to do the same.

The perception that instruction in English is essential in order to be internationally competitive is considerably smaller outside developing countries. It is clear that most universities and schools in developed countries emphasise mother-tongue instruction. The schools and tertiary institutions that offer their instruction in English are those in the USA, the United Kingdom, Australia and so on. There, instruction takes place in English because English is the students' first language - it is their mother tongue. In countries such as Japan, Germany, France and Holland, instruction is offered in those students' mother tongues.

Where it is possible, regional co-operation should be encouraged. The Southern African Development Community, SADC, framework provides the most readily available structure for this. In the dissemination of human rights literature, special attention should be directed towards those whose voices have been silenced.

If you want to overthrow a country, you start by diminishing the language. You wipe out the language. That's what the apartheid policies did. It sought to eradicate our own languages, so that the people would not be united. Language also brings unity. It is part of culture and heritage. Some languages were marginalised to such an extent that we as Africans also say that other languages, like Tshivenda, Xitsonga and the Khoi and San languages, are inferior. Last weekend the President met with the Khoi, Nama and San people because they also want to revive their own languages.

Language loss separates people from the richness of their culture and heritage. It prevents them from living their full cultural identity. It weakens cultural traditions and leads to fragmentation and the loss of community. The dominant culture is subsequently deprived of such people's cultural diversity.

Language is one of the main tools that are used to express ideas, emotions, knowledge, memories and values. Language is also the main vehicle for the cultural expression that is essential for individual and collective identity. Language is very important in any culture. A language does far more than just allowing people to communicate with each other.

We are aware that there are costs involved in promoting indigenous languages at all levels of education. We are aware of the fact that the financial costs of multilingualism at schools and tertiary institutions are naturally higher than those at monolingual institutions. However, in our view of the diversity of South African society and the constitutional right to equality with regards to mother-tongue education, our government is obliged to make active policy decisions in favour of multilingualism. There are strong social and political reasons why funding is required for multilingual education.

English-only schools promote the loss of indigenous languages. If there is no financial support, then the goal of a multilingual, cohesive society is not going to be achieved. In addition, indigenous languages cannot be implemented effectively. It is therefore important to mention that the promotion of indigenous languages and multilingualism will also make schools and tertiary education more accessible for students of all language groups. This would mean an enormous boost for quality education and the economy.

It is time for us as African students to write dissertations, reports and assignments in our own languages. Imagine if I wrote my reports in isiXhosa – I would pass all my dissertations as a Masters' student!

Mr M ELLIS: No, you won't.

Ms T B SUNDUZA: Ag, shut up! [Laughter.] We commend recent initiatives launched by both the Ministries of Higher Education and Training and of Basic Education with regard to the use of African languages as languages of education. We believe that a formula has to be developed to use as a basis of managing the principles and practises of the revitalisation of indigenous languages.

Furthermore, the state is enjoined to take the necessary corrective steps to elevate and equalise the formerly oppressed languages. It is with the latter view in mind that the founding provision in the Constitution was made that the PanAfrican Language Board,known as PanSALB, be established by national legislation, in order to promote all official languages, including the language of the Khoi and San, as well as sign language. We must ensure that we respect all languages commonly used by communities in South Africa.

The PanSALB body was established in order for there to be equal opportunity and enjoyment of all official languages. There are bodies like the Public Protector, the Human Rights Commission, the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities and the Commission for Gender Equality that regulate and act against discrimination.

In this Women's Month, most of the people who are oppressed on the basis of language are women. Women have to go to Home Affairs or to Social Development and present all the required documents in order to receive grants. However, the biggest challenge that they face is that of language, because most of them were greatly oppressed. They never received the necessary education. But, if government departments provide services and documents in all our own languages, then we will also tackle the issue of language.

There must be an awareness campaign of the revitalisation of languages, and the focus should be at schools, institutions of higher education and in families. The government cannot do it alone without the families, the community and society in general. All social institutions are critical for both economic prosperity and social cohesion. Elsewhere, in some societies, the promotion of indigenous languages has led to drastic improvements in nation-building projects.

Our critics always say that the performance of our matriculants is bad because of the teachers only, but if teachers were teaching in their own languages and students also ... [Interjections.]

Afrikaans:

Ek sal jou slaan! [Gelag.]

English:

That is their critique. Why not take into consideration the issue of languages? At Afrikaans and English-medium schools, scholars pass with flying colours, because they speak their own languages in their mother tongue, while our African children are forced to speak this foreign language in our homes. [Interjections.] Okay, I will face this side.

As I said, the blame for the loss of multilingualism cannot be placed on government only. There are departments of language services, South African heritage services and parents who must also assist in this process.

In conclusion... hon Ellis, you are not even listening to me now. You said I must face this side. [Interjections.] In conclusion, we need to encourage our people, particularly parents, children and the youth, to develop an interest and pride in their language and to promote this in society as a whole.

Our children – when I have any – must be encouraged to know their language rights and what grievance procedures to follow when their rights are violated, because people do not know their rights. They are violated and taken advantage of.

We need to ensure that we revitalise indigenous languages and make an effort to learn other languages. Hon Ellis, you have been here in Parliament for a long time and you cannot even speak Isixhosa. You must learn other languages as well. Our research bodies and individual scholars must be encouraged to conduct research and, as I said, write reports, dissertations and assignments in their own languages, in accordance with the Bill of Rights. Thank you for listening, even those Opposition members who did. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig): Before I call the next person, I would like to appeal to you to take your places and keep your voices down. There are private conversations going on all the time. This is actually a very important topic. I do not think that we are paying sufficient attention to this issue, which affects our people. So, I appeal, once again, for us to be quiet. If you need to something, say it quietly, but refrain from having conversations.

I would also like to appeal to the Deputy Minister of Tourism - I am addressing you, Madam. I would appreciate it if you could refrain from conducting conversations while speakers are trying to be heard. [Applause.]

Dr A LOTRIET

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms F Hajaig)

Afrikaans:

Dr A LOTRIET: Voorsitter, ek wil graag begin deur my waardering uit te spreek dat ons wel vandag 'n debat oor hierdie belangrike kwessie voer. Vir te lank is dit 'n onderwerp wat geïgnoreer is of waarvan weggeskram is. Die tragedie is, egter, dat dit hoegenaamd nodig is om in 2011, 17 jaar in ons nuwe bedeling in, debat te voer oor die hervitalisering van ons inheemse tale.

Dit is inderdaad 'n ernstige aanklag teen die regering van die dag dat ten spyte van ons Grondwet, waarin daar besliste bepalings is oor die beskerming en bevordering van alle amptelike tale in ons land, daar nou nog nie gevolg gegee is aan die bevordering en beskerming van ons inheemse tale nie. Soveel so dat dit 'n hofbevel gekos het om die regering so ver te kry om taalwetgewing te implementeer. Ek verwys hier spesifiek na die Suid-Afrikaanse Talewetsontwerp, wat nog ter Tafel gelê moet word.

Die vraag is dus: Hoe ernstig is die regering werklik oor die bevordering en dus dan ook die hervitalisering van die tale van Suid-Afrika en, in besonder, die inheemse tale? Hoekom word daar na redes gekyk waarom tale nie beskerm en bevorder moet word nie, eerder as waarom dit moet gebeur? Indien ons werklik ernstig is oor die hervitalisering van ons inheemse tale, moet ons deeglike introspeksie doen oor ons eie ingesteldheid jeens die tale van ons land.

English:

The reality is that, despite the wonderful provisions in our Constitution, a crisis is looming in South Africa regarding the promotion and preservation of our indigenous languages. Unfortunately, we are faced with the situation where our university students are turning their back on studying African languages. Departments of African languages are closing down because there has been a drastic decline in student numbers. Why is this happening?

There are a number of reasons, such as parents and the community at large equating education with competency in English and, in the process, the value of our indigenous languages is diminished. The fact is that these languages are not regarded as being adequate for higher-order functions. In other words, indigenous languages are not seen as being capable of being languages of business and the academic world. These languages are deemed not to be of economic value. The reason for this is that it is claimed that indigenous languages do not possess the requisite registers for science and scholarship or other high-order functions.

We therefore relegate these languages to the periphery as having value only in our social communication at home or with friends and not as an important facet of education and personal development. We believe that our languages will survive in this kind of environment and we tend to view language as nothing more than a means of communication.

In truth, language is much more than that. Language is who we are, our culture, our beliefs, our history. It is the footprint of where we come from and where we are going. It is part of our social, psychological and cultural make-up. It gives us a sense of social identity, self-confidence and emotional security.

Language, therefore, is much more than purely something of economic value. When we disrespect a person's language, we disrespect much more than only a means of communication. When we talk of the revitalisation of indigenous languages, we have to be serious and cognisant of the integral part language plays in how we view and experience ourselves. When we talk about revitalisation, it has to be a holistic approach. A few token gestures will not ensure the survival of these languages. We have to start right at the beginning, with education, right through to the workplace, making indigenous languages an economic option.

Let us look at what we are doing at present with our current educational dispensation. What is the message that we send to a child when he goes to school and we tell him or her that, unfortunately, his language is not considered good enough for him to be taught in? We are saying to the child, you, your culture and your history are inferior. What kind of person will we produce when this is the message we are giving our children? We are creating generations of children who have to deal with the underlying message that who they are and where they come from is inferior and has no economic value.

If we want to talk about revitalising our indigenous languages, we have to start by looking at our own attitudes, our own preconceived ideas of the role of language and what constitutes value. The language sector is most probably one of the most undervalued sectors in the economy. We focus on maths and science, while we have a treasure trove of linguistically gifted people. Whole industries can be created in the field of language, such as translators, interpreters, editors, writers, document designers, language technologists, and not only teachers, as we have always thought. The potential for job creation in the language field has not even begun to be considered and it is enormous.

The inconvenient truth is, however, that if we do not commit wholeheartedly to the revitalisation and true empowerment of our indigenous languages, the outcome is bleak and sad. What we have to remember is that according to projections, 95% of the currently spoken speech forms in the world will be extinct in the next 100 years. This does not refer to languages such as English, French or Chinese, but languages such as our own indigenous languages. This happens when there is no support and interventions to protect and, importantly, to promote these languages. The tragedy is that the moment our indigenous African languages become extinct, culturally, as Africans, we cease to exist. We vanish into history. Culturally we become part of the world whose languages we have adopted. The question is: What are we, then?

We have to realise that for true nation-building and social cohesion to prevail in our country, we need a genuinely multilingual citizenry. This can only be achieved if we promote and protect the languages of our country. [Applause.]

Mr P NTSHIQELA

Dr A LOTRIET

Mr P NTSHIQELA: Hon Speaker, ...

IsiXhosa:

... nabo bonke abakule Ndlu, ingakumbi abo bakwaDlangamandla naseMazizini, ndiyanibulisa ngegama leNkosi.

Okokuqala, manditsho ukuba akukho nto ibuhlungu njengokuba abantwana abasesikolweni bekhuthazwe ukuba bathethe iilwimi ezingezizo ezakumawabo ngamaxesha onke. Okona kuhlupha kakhulu kukuba umntwana wam ubuya esikolweni andixelele ukuba kufunwa into edla imali engamawaka amabini, kube kufunwa loo mawaka mabini ke. Xa ndibuza ukuba yintoni na le ifunwayo, impendulo ithi yi-"horizombotech". Kunakaloku nje ndisafuna ootishala ukuze bandichazele ukuba yintoni na loo nto.

Andikhange ndichaze ukuba andiyazi loo nto kwaye andazi nokuba niyayazi na nina. Ndiwakhuphile amawaka amabini kodwa ndisakhangela ukuba yintoni na i-"horizombotech". Noxa kunjalo, ndiyaqonda ukuba le "horizombotech" yinto enxulumene nobuxhakaxhaka bale mihla, andibazi ke obu buxhakaxhaka bale mihla.

Ingqeqesho iqala ekhaya. Kuba buhlungu xa usiva abantwana bethu bethetha isingesi xa bencokola koololiwe naseziteksini. Kuloo meko uye uzibuze ukuba ingaba aba abantwana bayalwazi okanye abalwazi na ulwimi lwabo.

English:

Because Cope supports the ...

IsiXhosa:

... eli gama ndingazi kulibiza kakuhle, ndingalichaniyo...

English:

... of our indigenous languages, the only problem we foresee is how this will be achieved. We all know that the devil is in the details. How do we bring our languages back into prominence when political leadership - especially the ruling party - communicates with children in English after the elections ... [Interjections.] ... when instruments of public communication like the South African Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, use slang language like "fo sho" and spells uMzantsi incorrectly, and when the Chapter 1 institution, the Pan South African Language Board, PanSALB, is still bogged down in legal action instead of pursuing its constitutional mandate of actively promoting the development of previously marginalised languages, among other things?

I read somewhere that it is easier for a six-years-old to learn to speak a new language fluently ...

IsiXhosa:

... ndilibize kakuhle andithi eli gama? [Intswahla.]

English:

... than it is for a 16- or 26-year-old. I therefore disagree with the Minister of Higher Education on his call to force university students to study at least one African language as a condition to graduate.

IsiXhosa:

Umthi ugotywa uselula.

English:

I also disagree with the ...

IsiXhosa:

... eliny' igama endingalichani kakuhle...

English:

... PanSALB chief executive officer's call that government must make it a policy that if you want a government job, you have to know an African language. He made this statement in support of the Minister of Higher Education's call.

I do not think that he really believes in what he said, taking into consideration what he wrote in his personal capacity on Facebook about 16June, where he was accusing a number of people, including the President, parents and state institutions of violating language rights ... [Time expired.]

IsiXhosa:

Ukufa kusembizeni. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Prof C T MSIMANG

Mr P NTSHIQELA

isiZulu:

Prof C T MSIMANG: Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, okokuqala ngizohalalisela umhlonishwa uSunduza, ngokuqhamuka ngesihloko esibaluleke kangaka ukuba kuxoxwe ngaso kule Ndlu. Sengimhalalisele bese ngiba nokudabuka ukuthi silinde kwaze kwaphela iminyaka eyi-17 ukuba sixoxe ngalesi sihloko.

Kuleyo minyaka eyi-17 besibona ukusetshenziswa kwezilimi zesintu kuya ngokuya kuncipha, kanti ukusetshenziswa kwesiNgisi kuya ngokuya kukhula. Namhlanje ngisho abavakashi abavela phesheya nxa behla esikhumulweni sezindiza, into yokuqala abayibonayo ukuthi izwe abafike kulo ngelamangisi.

Zonke izazisi ezichaza ngokwenzekayo nokuthi indawo ethile ikuphi, zibhalwe ngesingisi. Namhlanje uthi nxa ufika ezinkantolo noma ezinkundleni zamacala, ufice ukuthi bonke abasenkundleni ukusuka kummangali ngumuntu wase-Afrika kuye kummangalelwa kuze kuyofika kuyo imantshi, ngisho ijaji imbala

Kodwa bonke laba bantu bakhuluma ngesiNgisi, ongasazi – ikakhulukazi ummangalelwa angamane afunelwe utolika ukuze amchazele konke ngesiZulu. Uyadabuka ukuthi izakhiwo zikahulumeni nezinhlaka zakhe ziningi kangakanani ukuthuthukisa izilimi zethu, kodwa uma usubuka ukuthi imiphumela injani, uthola ukuthi kunokuba zithuthuke ungazi zibuyela emuva. Uma kukhulunya ngokuthuthukisa kwezilimi zesintu sisuke sibheka ikakhulukazi ukuthi sezikhona yini izichazamazwi, ubheka ukuthi iyathuthuka yini imibhalo ebhalwe ngalolu limi. Imibhalo yobuchwepheshe njengamanoveli.

Usuke ubheka ukuthi zitsetshenziswa kangakanani ekufundiseni izingane zesikole. Uthole ukuthi konke lokhu akwenzakali. Bese ubona ukuthi ngempela ngempela kusuka kuhulumeni wobandlululo kuya kuhulumeni wentando yabantu, iqhaza elibanjwe yizilimi zesintu liye ngokuya linqipha kunokuthi likhule. Okudabukisayo kakhulu ukuthi kwenzeke esikhathi sekuphethe abantu abamnyama. Ngithokoze. [Ihlombe.]

Mr J J MC GLUWA

Prof C T MSIMANG

Mr J J MCGLUWA: Chairperson, in 1976 school children fought over language instruction. As government, we tend to forget the seriousness and sensitivity of this topic. This is the very reason that Hector Peterson and so many learners died. It is sad that we remember their cause only once a year. As a leader, I realise that I have not done enough to ensure that my own child attaches the same importance to indigenous languages than she does to our home language.

The historical and current context of language issues in South Africa remains fraught and continues to have an influence on relationships between language and society. Allowing the current status of our schools will result in the marginalisation of all indigenous African languages.

Therefore my question is: What have we done over the past 17 years to protect, revive and restructure the system to incorporate the 11 official languages into a medium of instruction and as a part of the curriculum to encourage communication across racial divides?

It is sad that South African families hardly communicate in their home languages. After 17 years in our democratic South Africa, black children are still not being taught in their mother tongue. This directly affects racial integration because children from different racial and cultural backgrounds come together on the playground. That is where the foundations are laid for a united future.

Greater effort should be made and financial assistance be given to accelerate the progress of the move towards gearing all South Africans to meet the practical language requirements of our country. Furthermore, it is not enough to restrict ourselves to phrases like "heita" and "hola" in the corridors of Parliament. Therefore it is important that Parliament should offer language courses for Members of Parliament in its Leadership Management Academy.

The ID supports and encourages the introduction of national awareness through active multilingualism and the recognition of all traditional leaders in all spheres of government. [Applause.]

Mr S Z NTAPANE

Mr J J MCGLUWA

Mr S Z NTAPANE: Hon Chairperson and hon members, it is with tremendous sadness that I stand here today to debate the menace of extinction facing indigenous languages in South Africa. This happens while English continues to enjoy unchallenged supremacy as a medium of verbal and written communication, both in business and in government.

We are all guilty of not doing enough to safeguard indigenous languages as valuable resources for our knowledge systems, cultural norms and values and national heritage. The UDM believes that we have a collective responsibility to play a more active role in the preservation and promotion of indigenous languages.

Government must take the lead in the development of more supportive policies that promote the use of our indigenous languages. Government must invest in the development of the intellectualisation of indigenous languages for them to be able to function effectively as mediums of communication, both in business and in government.

Resources should be made available to improve the capacity of university research departments on indigenous languages. Government must promote the use of indigenous languages as mediums of instruction at schools and universities. Available empirical evidence clearly demonstrates a positive correlation between the use of mother tongue at school as a medium of instruction and improved performance in school work by pupils, particularly in maths and science. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER

Mr S Z NTAPANE

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, I would like to start off by congratulating the hon Sunduza for bringing this topic to Parliament. I think it is necessary that we discuss this issue, and I would like to say that I agree with approximately 98% of every word she said today. It was a good speech. The 2% difference is in terms of certain interpretations of our history, but we can debate that at another time. Well done on the 98%!

The question is, do we really believe in and see South Africa as a multilingual country, or do we pay lip service to this ideal, while secretly moving towards an English-speaking only South Africa? That is the problem. Why is it normal and acceptable if I insist on speaking English anywhere, but if I speak one of South Africa's other indigenous languages, then suddenly there is a problem or it becomes political?

The international position of English made it possible for a number of popular misconceptions about English in South Africa to take root. These relate to the belief that most South Africans understand English, or that English is widely used as lingua franca. Research shows that only 34% to 40% of South Africans have sufficient English language skills to make sense of news broadcasts and political debates in English. The documentation and the study have been done.

Afrikaans:

Die feit van die saak is dat moedertaal onderwys, en die hele erkenning van jou eie taal, absoluut noodsaaklik is as ons ernstig is om mense in die proses te erken.

Translation of Afrikaans sentence follows:

[The fact remains that mother tongue instruction, and the complete recognition of one's language, is absolutely essential if we are serious about recognising people in the process.]

English:

It is not only the ANC, in terms of the Polokwane resolution, that speaks about this. One should have a look at section 6(2) of the Constitution, where it is clearly stated that:

Recognising the historically diminished use and status of the indigenous languages of our people, the state must take practical and positive measures to elevate the status and advance the use of these indigenous languages.

Afrikaans:

Feit van die saak is: as jy iemand se taal minag, minag jy daardie persoon.

Translation of Afrikaans sentence follows:

[The fact of the matter is that if you show contempt for someone's language, you also show contempt for that person.]

English:

If we are serious about the recognition of all our official languages, we should do what was said today and implement the proposals that were put on the table. I congratulate the member. Let us do this now in practice and then we will see that, once we really try, we will start to succeed at nation-building as well. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY

Dr C C P MULDER

Mrs C DUDLEY: This is what an isiXhosa-speaking young man I spoke to said to me: "I am worried that for centuries our languages have been a reflection of those cultural distinctions that have made us who we are as a people and, in a sense, have been an element of the many things that have made us strong. Though we have survived centuries of contact and conflict, today we are faced with a crisis that is perhaps more significant than any we have ever faced in our histories. It is the crisis of the loss of our languages, and this crisis has reached a point that if we are not able to effectively pass our languages on to our youth within the next 15 years, we could witness the loss of as much as 85% of the African languages that are still spoken at present."

Under the 1996 Constitution, all of South Africa's official languages "must enjoy parity of esteem and be treated equitably". In practice, English increasingly dominates and is the medium of business, finance, science, the Internet, government, the music industry and much more.

The numbers of people using a newly found knowledge of different African languages is also dropping while, 17 years into this new South Africa, it should be the opposite. This is cause for concern. Experts at the School of Language and Literature at the University of Cape Town say that at present, the vast majority of language experts and lecturers are in their fifties and they are very concerned that there are no others coming after them.

I studied isiZulu at university in KwaZulu-Natal, when I was studying law as a mature student, in the years before coming to Parliament in 1999. Despite making an enthusiastic start and achieving high marks for exams, to my disappointment and shame the isiZulu I learned never dropped successfully from my head to my tongue. In my defence, I was subsequently redeployed into provinces where IsiZulu was not a priority.

Other difficulties I encountered, even at university in KwaZulu-Natal, in the rare, brave moments of wanting to practise my isiZulu, was when I often and unwittingly picked on a foreign student. This was very off-putting. When speaking to ordinary KwaZulu-Natal residents, I would be corrected by people who had a standard-3 education. It seemed my varsity isiZulu just did not say what it was meant to. That was equally confusing! [Time expired.]

Ms T L P NWAMITWA-SHILUBANA

Mrs C C DUDLEY

Ms T L P NWAMITWA-SHILUBANA: Hon Chairperson, members, distinguished guests and our children, you will recall that one of the defining moments in our struggle, the 1976 youth uprising, was sparked by the imposition of Afrikaans as a medium of instruction in black schools. We therefore know the consequences of using language as a political instrument and we are now determined to ensure that our country does not go down that road again.

Our language policy recognises that our country is a multilingual society, with a large number of indigenous languages. If language contributes to our attitudes, then language is the central feature of culture. It is in language that culture is transmitted, interpreted and configured. Language is also a register of culture.

Historically, the trajectory of a culture can be read in the language and evolution of its lexicon and morphology. Language is one of the distinctive features that distinguishes us from the animal world. We are in effect talkative animals. In this respect we can extend the logic of the argument by saying that language is the key distinguishing feature between us and the rest of the animal world. Our ability to create culture and language marks us off from the animals.

Language is the most important means of human intercourse. Language and cultural rights are therefore central to all considerations of human rights, in contemporary South Africa and the world at large. Furthermore, it suggests that the revitalisation of indigenous languages is at the heart of contemporary debates about identity, social cohesion and the development of a knowledge-based economy. The aforementioned affirms respect for the diversity of indigenous languages, tolerance, dialogue and cooperation, in a climate of mutual trust and understanding. In this regard, it is important to note that indigenous languages and literacy are crucial for societal development. For instance, we have Ndebele and Khilobedu, which, until now, are not recognised in schools as a written language. The Balobedu children are taught in Sepedi. Maybe this is what contributes to the high failure rate, because they speak Khilobedu at home and when they get to school, they have to write in Sepedi.

Our country's reconstruction towards a national democratic society is possible when its citizens are literate in the languages of the masses. In other words, it is not possible to reach social cohesion if language or languages of literacy and education are only within the intellectual ambit of a small powerful elite. What has PanSALB been doing since 1996, when our Constitution was adopted, to revitalise such languages? PanSALB has an obligation to develop such languages.

The language question in our country, with respect to its challenges, calls for concerted efforts to revitalise indigenous languages. We know how far we have travelled in terms of past achievements at policy and legislative level.

Xitsonga:

Tindzimi ta hina Vantima a ti nga hlayiwi helo. A hi fana na vahlampfa etikweni ra hina. Hi hoyozela ntshuxeko lowu nga va kona hi 1994. Hi ri endzhaku ku vuyela singe hina a hi nga ha vuyeli.

English:

I want to agree with hon Lotriet, who said that if you undermine other people's language, you actually undermine the people who speak it. That is true.

Xitsonga:

Tindzimi ta hina Vantima a ti nga vulavuriwi hi nkarhi wa apartheid[xihlawuhlawu]. Loko va tsala swilo a va tsala leswaku "and other languages" [Na tin'wana tindzimi].

English:

Our Constitution states that:

Everyone has the right to use the language and to participate in the cultural life of their choice, but no one exercising these rights may do so in a manner inconsistent with any provision of the Bill of Rights.

In addition, the point is made that:

Persons belonging to a cultural, religious or linguistic community may not be denied the right, with other members of that community, to enjoy their culture, practise their religion and use their language; and to form, join and maintain cultural, religious and linguistic associations and other organs of civil society.

It is further stated that these rights may not be exercised in a manner inconsistent with any provision of the Bill of Rights.

In the area that I am from, white farmers speak Xitsonga so fluently. I remember in Giyani, during the birthday celebrations of our former President, Nelson Mandela, we had a young, white girl who attended a multiracial school. She was 16 or 18 years old. She requested to be allowed to stand before us in order to read a poem in Xitsonga. Unless you saw this white girl, you would think, from her pronunciation, that she was a Xitshonga-speaking child. Why can't our communities speak the languages of the people who are living in it?

The state must take practical and positive measures to elevate the status and advance the use of these languages. The letter and spirit of these words is that all are equal before the law. This is the famous call of the Freedom Charter. Up until now, multilingualism has been invisible in the public service, in most public discourse and in the mass media.

Consequently, and despite the fact that the Constitution provides for the cultivation of multilingualism and the revitalisation of indigenous languages, there is still an urgent need for the Departments of Arts and Culture, and Science and Technology, to revitalise the use of indigenous languages, in a manner that draws from the framework of the Reconstruction and Development Programme, and to maximise the utilisation of the country's multilingual human resources.

Ironically, the Department of Arts and Culture is a department that is not given a large-enough budget. If they could get enough money, I think they would promote indigenous languages, traditional music, traditional dances and traditional folklore.

Indigenous languages should all be elevated to the same level by providing the necessary resources to enable and permit this direction. However, one hardly notices much reaction by the speakers of indigenous languages in our country to the increasing predominance of English. Occasionally we hear and read strident African language-speaking voices. Generally, however, they are few and far between.

A sharply worded publication entitled "Africans opt for English as the language of brainy people" which I think most people have read, was written by an African language-speaking reader. It appeared in The Star in recent months. The writer trenchantly observed that:

It is disheartening to see people actively shunning their languages. Indigenous languages are relegated to second-best, compared to English, despite the fact that the Constitution advocates for equality with respect to languages. What is more disturbing is that even Africans are assisting in the marginalisation of their mother tongue. The country is currently busy producing African youth who can hardly read, let alone write and text in their mother tongue. These youth fail to even pronounce African names correctly, let alone spell it.

In extreme cases African children can hardly construct a sentence in their parents' mother tongue. I think the fault is with us as parents. The poor kids' identity is lost because they are, for example, a Mutsonga and yet they know nothing about the Tsonga culture, or a Mupedi who knows nothing about the Pedi culture. These children look down on African cultures, just as most proponents of colonialism do, or did.

They look down on African religious practices as backwards and superstitious. They are alienating themselves from their own cultures, with the help of their parents, of course. It is unfortunate that many parents still believe that speaking eloquent English necessarily means that you are intelligent. That is not the case. The fallacy of this observation is to suggest that the English in England are all intelligent because they speak English. Some of them are not intelligent, despite the fact that they speak English.

The interesting thing is that when parents enrol their children in township schools, they insist that their children attend schools that offer their mother tongue. However, when these kids move to schools in town, mother tongue preference is shelved for English and Afrikaans. Why? Granted, the schools may not be offering any African languages at that stage, even though it has African pupils in the majority. African parents might merely be resigning themselves to the status quo, more often than not. Parents should speak up. Our children should learn other languages, in addition to their mother tongue. We definitely agree with this.

Imagine if white, coloured and Indian children were to learn African indigenous languages as their second languages at school. That would add some impetus to nation-building. We support the call by hon Dr Blade Nzimande for indigenous languages to be included at tertiary and university levels.

I once attended a court case where the judge could not understand any of the indigenous languages, and there was an interpreter who was interpreting what the accused was accused of. Those who speak Sepedi will understand when I say, Tlogo ya mago. It is an insulting word, but the interpreter said, "Your mother's head." The judge asked, "What is wrong with her mother's head?" [Laughter.] It had been literally translated. It could have been translated in Xitsonga. Xitsonga-speaking people could have translated it. We can thus see how much we don't know when we don't have the chance to learn other languages, in particular the indigenous languages. Sometimes it is not good for all us.

It is important that we decolonise our minds and avoid giving in to the status quo. By the way, one does not need to be conversant in English to be an electrician, doctor, mechanic or professor. You can become a professor without being proficient in English. If you could have used your mother tongue, you could maybe even have passed with distinction.

The technological culture of South Africa is constructed on the cultures and in the languages of its white minority. Knowledge, its production and reproduction, is negotiated and built in the languages and culture of this cultural superpower.

Adopting a culturally exclusive approach in South Africa means that if you go to an ATM machine, for instance, the procedure you have to follow will be in English, or when using a computer, the procedure you have to follow is in English. Even the manuals for the use of ordinary cellular phones are in English. So, unless you know that language, you cannot access those technologies. There must be indigenous-centred development to provide the masses of our people with cultural and linguistic access to these processes. This will have to be done in the cultures and languages of the masses, unless we want to suggest that the indigenous languages and cultures of the masses are inherently inferior and can provide no basis for social and cultural advancement.

Xitsonga:

Hi fanele ku tsundzuka ubuntu [vumunhu]. Hi leswi mfumo wa hina wu vulaka swona.

English:

The situation we currently have is one in which the languages of the indigenous majorities are marginalised and underdeveloped. The only way in which to revitalise them is to be given more in terms of the budget, to be supported by government and, more importantly, by the parents of our children at school.

In comparison, you find so many textbooks and research material written in English and Afrikaans. Where will our people get this information from? There are no textbooks and research books written in our indigenous languages. It is high time that our writers embarked on that.

This condition of the relative cultural deprivation of the languages of the majorities cannot serve as a viable basis for social and economic development. The latter needs the enlistment of the cultural energies of the masses.

In conclusion, the revitalisation of indigenous languages requires active advocacy work and awareness campaigns. This should involve both state and civil-society organisations. A systematic plan for this work needs to be drawn up. Co-operative linkages should be established with bodies involved in similar or related work of a cultural or linguistic kind. Publications flowing out of this work should be done. [Applause.]

Mr K J DIKOBO

Ms T L P NWAMITWA-SHILUBANA

Mr K J DIKOBO: Chairperson, hon members and honoured guests, we use language to communicate but, more than that, languages are carriers of the culture of the people who speak those languages. I have listened with interest at people trying to convey a cultural concept of one community in a language of another community. You will find that the translation does not carry the full meaning and original idiom.

If a language is allowed to disappear, so does the culture of the people who speak that language. We therefore support the idea that indigenous languages have to be promoted and supported because the disappearance of a language also means that writers and authors in those languages are discouraged from writing because there would be no market for their books.

Researchers and scientists have told us that one of the factors contributing to the high failure rate in our schools is the fact that many children are taught in a foreign language. Azapo therefore supports the idea of mother tongue as the medium of instruction or language of teaching and learning. We are not calling for the scrapping of English or any other language. We could have mother tongue as a language of teaching and learning, while studying other languages as subjects.

If we are serious and invest in the promotion and revitalisation of indigenous languages, we should find that any language can be used as a medium of instruction. By so doing, we will be promoting our cultures in our country. [Applause.]

Mr G G BOINAMO

Mr K J DIKOBO

Setswana:

Mr G G BOINAMO: Ke tsaya nako eno go leboga Modulasetilo, mmogo le Ditona tsa rona le maloko a a tlotlegang a Ntlo e. Motlotlegi Sunduza, kgaitsadiaka, o buile mme o re diretse phoso ka go bua ka ga tsosoloso ya diteme tsa bantsho o be o dira jalo ka sejatlhapi. Re tshwanelwa ke gore re ikitse, re ithate, re itlhomphe re bo re tlhomphe le dipuo tsa rona.

English:

Let me give you a historical perspective of today's topic of debate. This is not the first time, but the second time that this topic is debated in this country. It was first debated during the period when this country was under the British regime and the sole official language was English. Afrikaans was not recognised because the Afrikaners were oppressed. There emerged a scholar by the name of C J Langenhoven, who wrote a book titled Die erwe van ons vaad're. In this book he wrote a chapter titled "Afrikaans as voertaal", which means "Afrikaans as a language of instruction". He used the analogy of a donkey and said:

Afrikaans:

'n Donkie en sy eseltjies is dors. 'n Donkie ken die kortste pad dam toe, maar nou is al die paaie dam toe versper en is 'n donkie geforseer om die ompad dam toe te neem.

English:

What he meant here is that the Afrikaner child was thirsty for education, but opportunities for him or her to access education were made almost impossible because the child was forced to study or learn through a foreign language, which was then English.

This is exactly what is happening in our case, the only difference is that we are no longer oppressed and the Afrikaners were oppressed then. The question is: Where is Afrikaans today? It is now a language of economists and of science and technology. Indigenous languages can also be developed to achieve the same standard.

Setswana:

Mmusakgotla, diteme tsa rona di meditswe ke diteme tsa ditšhaba tse dingwe. Re le bantsho re dumeletse ditlhaloganyo tsa rona gore di tsenwe kgotsa di fetolwe ke bokolone. Ditlhaloganyo tsa rona di amegile thata moo e bileng re inyatsa ka borona, re itseela kwa tlase, re latlha ditso tsa rona le go latlha dipuo tsa rona. Ra tsaya dipuo tsa bokolone ra di dira tsa rona ra bo ra ithaya ra re re di tlhaloganya go phala dipuo tsa rona.

Ga gona jaaka o ka tlhaloganya seesimane go gaisa Sethosa kgotsa kgotsa Sezulu e le leleme la ga mme. Fa o ithaya o re o ka itse leleme la batswakwa go gaisa leleme la gago, seo se re bontsha gore o latlhegile. Setswana sa re mooka pilo o o leodi le matute a monate, mogokong ga o ke o o ja o be o fetsa mooko wa teng. Re tshwanetse ra itse gore selo se se nang le boleng ba tlholego, se le mosola mo setšhabeng, ga gona yo o ka se fedisang.

Diteme tsa bantsho di koafaditswe le go tswapolwa ke go itlhokomolodisiwa ke beng ba tsona – rona beng ba tsona. Ke matlhabisa ditlhong gore bana ba rona, e leng bana ba thari e ntsho ba bo ba palelwa ke go bua segabona ka manontlhotlho le boipelo. Fa o fitlhela thaka e tshesane e tlotla, go sena makgoa e le bona fela, ba bua sejatlhapi. Fa o batla go itse gore tota se se dirang gore ba bue sejatlhapi ke eng ka go sena basweu mo gare ga bona, ba re "Ga re itse Setswana, re itse sekgoa fela". Matlhabisa ditlhong.

Se ke loso lwa dipuo tsa segarona le ditso tsa rona gonne dipuo tse di tshwere ngwao le ditso tsa rona. Tsela e rona batho ba bantsho, bana ba mmala wa sebilo re dirang ka teng, ga re sa itse puo ya rona, go raya gore ga re ikitse, ga re itlhalogane e bile ga re na kwa re yang teng.

Tsaya dikolo tse e neng e le tsa basweu pele, diteme tsa bantsho bantsho ga di rutiwe gotlhelele kwa dikolong tseo. Ke gwetlha Ntlo e gore a diteme tsa bantsho di rutwe mo dikolong tsotlhe, tota le bona basweu re ba rute diteme tsa rona. Ba di ithute jaaka fela re ithutile Seaforikanse le Sekgoa. Bana ba rona ba tshwanetse go rutwa gore fa o sa itse segaeno o lesilo, o seelele, ga o ithate, o itlhoile.

Basweu ba a ithata ka ba rata le go tlotla dipuo tsa bone. Dikolo tsa bantsho di kile tsa bo di ne di ruta dithuto tse di latelang:-thutapuo; poko; porosa; mokwalo; diane; maele le tekatlhaloganyo. Dirutwa tse tsotlhe di na le seabe se se boitshegang mo go ageng puo ya ngwaga ka kakaratso mme dingwe tsa tsona di tsene ka lenga la seloko, di nyele phuthi boloko. Ke gwetlha Ntlo e gore a re busetseng dithuto tsa bantsho mo dikolong tsa rona.[Nako e fedile.]

Ms T B SUNDUZA

Mr G G BOINAMO

IsiZulu:

NK T B SUNDUZA: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.

English:

I have just received a note stating that I introduced this topic but I'm also speaking English. My home language is isiHlubi, which is not recognised in the Constitution, and I was told that there is no interpreter for isiHlubi. That is why I'm speaking English. It is one of the indigenous languages. I am not a Xhosa but a Hlubi woman.

IsiZulu:

Yingakho uma ngibulisa ngithe ekhethu, sanibonani. Nathula ngoba beningazi ukuthi ithini le ntombi yakwaMazibuko.

English:

I'd like to thank you, hon members, for this debate. It must not end here.

IsiZulu:

Ngiyabonga bab'uMsimango kakhulu yingakho ngithe...

English:

... I must raise this issue because it's a serious problem.

IsiNdebele:

Ngombana abantu bekhethu abasakwazi ukukhuluma isikhabo kwamambala. Ukhe wabona?

English:

The reason we are speaking about this is that there are not only the 11 languages that are recognised in the Constitution but more beyond that.

I agree with you, Mr Ntsiqela, that 90% of what the SABC broadcasts is not even SA English but foreign content. Language also brings morality into the society – morality starts with the language. I challenge the SABC to change the content. All languages should be represented. In most cases, the dominating languages are isiXhosa, isiZulu, Setswana and Sesotho. Meanwhile other languages are suppressed, even though they form part of the 11 official languages. You must clap hands now, hon members. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]

I agree with Mr Ntshiqela that ...

IsiXhosa:

... enyanisweni uPanSALB usarhuqa nzima, ngokuba baseneengxaki mna nawe esivumelana nazo.

English:

I think that we, as the committee as well, will just have to push PanSALB on the issue of recognising all languages.

I'd also like to encourage those of us in this House to speak in our own languages more often – and I include myself, the one who started this debate. Most of us, when we respond, do so in English.

Thank you, hon Mulder, for the first time I agree with you – even if there is 2% where you disagree with me. I want to say that many of the complaints that we receive are from Afrikaners. It is not only Africans but also people who speak Afrikaans who want to express themselves in Afrikaans, in interviews, for instance. As I said in my opening statement, Afrikaans is also part of the indigenous languages because of its historical context – I will not go there. It's not me saying this; it's history.

Afrikaans:

Dis geskiedenis. Dis nie ek wat so se nie – ek het nie boeke geskryf nie. [Gelag.]

English:

Furthermore, African writers face a serious challenge. Most of them do not get publishers because publishers want books written in English. I think it's a challenge.

IsiZulu:

Yilapho ke lungaqhubeki ulimi lwethu.

English:

You will find that our own African writers are writing in English because the publishers are the challenge. This means that publishers must also start to transform in their sector.

As I said, a language is a tool that we use as a vehicle for human rights and minority community development in the country. As long as we don't recognise our indigenous languages, our economy will not improve because a person who comes from the most rural or nodal areas to an urban area cannot speak English. This is because history deprived them of the opportunity to gain a high level of education. If they cannot speak that language, they won't achieve anything economically. They might be skilled but as long as language remains a barrier there will a serious problem.

Indigenous languages are under siege as we speak, not only in SA but internationally as well. So, it is for us here to revive those languages, especially African parents. I've heard many people, even members of this House, speak to their kids in English. The children don't even know what "papa" – that is porridge - is. They say, "Mummy, give me that white stuff." It is a challenge to all African parents to speak these languages at home. We even pray in English in our own, African homes:

IsiXhosa:

Akusathandazwa ngamaXhosa, kwaye asizamazi uyanga iNkosi ingeva umthandazo wabantwana abancinci; ngenxa kaYesu Kristu iNkosi yethu, Amen.

English:

We don't even say that anymore. I'm also challenging churches and the religious community. They preach in English because of the diversity in SA, but then people don't follow what is being said and don't go to church anymore. Church is one of the sectors that bring moral regeneration to society. When there is a language shift, the culture diminishes altogether.

IsiZulu:

Ngiyacela ukuthi sonke sivumelane.

English:

I also challenge the private sector. It is not only the public sector that must take up this challenge. They must allow their documents, advertisements and everything to be written in indigenous languages. I have seen people trying to write isiXhosa - they mix English and isiXhosa, then they say they are writing the language. I think it's a serious crisis. Thank you, hon members, for supporting this beautiful hon member in this debate. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

FIRST ORDER

SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION

VISIT TO SQUARE KILOMETER ARRAY (SKA) IN CARNARVON AND SOUTH AFRICAN LARGE TELESCOPE (SALT) IN SUTHERLAND, 29 TO 30 MARCH 2011

(Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology thereon)

Mr E N N NGCOBO: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers present, unfortunately the managing Whip is saying that I must summarise, which means that the 10 minutes I had has to be changed. I don't know what to change so I will have to speak from my head rather than from the speech notes. I will just give a bit of background to what this is all about.

The Square Kilometre Array, SKA, is a radio telescope, and we are short-listed, together with Australia, in the bid to host it in the southern hemisphere. We've got two main, big telescopes in the southern hemisphere, and one of them is South African Large Telescope, SALT, in Sutherland. Recently, on 29 and 30 March, the committee visited these two facilities in order to familiarise ourselves with the progress that has been made so far, more so because the result - who has won between us and Australia – will be made known early next year. Initially, six countries had entered for the bid to host the SKA telescope.

The Square Kilometre Array telescope actually signifies an array of dishes - anticipated to be about 3 000 in total when it is finished. These will lie in a very wide area right up to Ghana. The core area is going to be in the Northern Cape Province. That is the area on which the Department of Science and Technology, together with the ANC-led government, has decided, since this is a very good site for receiving radio signals. It is sparsely populated and also sunny. Therefore it is able to do good work.

The Astronomy Geographic Advantage Act was passed, in which the Minister of Science and Technology has the sole right to check what activity can be allowed in that important area. Because we are competing with Australia, we have to beat Australia in many aspects, and this Act is one of the instruments by which we entice the international community to make us their first choice.

When the delegation went to the Northern Cape, it was accompanied by the Department of Science and Technology, the National Research Foundation, NRF, which is actually the host of the astronomy facilities in the country, and the South African Astronomical Observatory, SAAO, which is situated here in Cape Town and is actually the driver of all the astronomy research in South Africa. The lead host, as I said, the NRF, is presided over by the chief executive officer, Dr Albert van Jaarsveld, and the SAAO is led by Prof Phil Charles, an astronomy expert who is about to go back to England, where he is originally from.

One of the important things that I also want to mention about the Square Kilometre Array is the radio telescope. At the moment, we are familiar with only about one quarter of the birth of the universe. We can calculate as far back as 300 000 years but the Big Bang happened 4 billion years ago, so we know very little about what happened earlier. There are many theories about the Big Bang and that the universe is still expanding and so forth. In fact, there is now a new theory that life comes from the stars, from the black holes, and the SKA is going to tell us whether we are a product of the stars. We have found out here in Maropeng, at Sterkfontein, that we are the product of the dinosaurs. Now, by having the SKA, we are going to show that we are actually the product of the stars, not the dinosaurs.

With reference to the visit the SKA, we have just launched a precursor telescope to the SKA. It was checked out last week and fortunately it was successfully verified by the international community. It has seven dishes, therefore it is called Kat-7. Kat-7 is a precursor to MeerKAT. MeerKAT will have 64 dishes to collect radio waves, but at the end, when we really develop the SKA, we will have 3 000 dishes.

Some countries in Southern Africa are our partners but we have gone beyond that, because the wider the area, the more signals we get and the more we know about what is happening at the end of the universe. We also have Ghana, which has agreed to host us, and we will see over time which other countries in Africa we can negotiate with in order to get as much information and as many signals as possible to understand the origins of our universe.

Once we know about the origins of our universe, one of the advantages is that we will be able to tackle even the problems of climate change, an issue that is at the centre of the modern world. We are theorising about 50 years to come and that we want to lower the carbon or gas emissions by 80% to below 1990 levels, but we do not know how to do that. With the SKA, we will probably be able to do that research within one year, so it is very important to do this.

The SKA office is already established inKlerefontein, about 80km from the site of the dishes. We also visited that.

In 2000, South Africa and its international partners joined forces to build the largest single optical telescope, SALT, in the southern hemisphere. We also visited SALT. The difference between SKA and SALT is that SALT is an optical telescope. Optical telescopes have certain shortcomings when it comes to receiving waves. For example, if the weather is not good, you cannot see the signal, whereas with a radio telescope, waves can pass through even in bad weather. Also, the SKA – and this is why they say it is very significant – will be able to show us what is happening in what we call "magnetic regions" at the end of the universe. SALT will tell us a little, but if you watch the DVD that shows images from both SALT and SKA, you can see that the images from SKA are much clearer than those from SALT, which is the optical telescope. This, therefore, is the advantage of SKA and its large-scale research involving many countries as our partners, such as the United Kingdom, United States of America, Poland, South Korea, India, Germany, Russia and France. All these countries are in the consortium developing the SKA.

In terms of community benefits, we visited the school hostel there. Since Sutherland High School is the only one in the district offering science as a subject, learners interested in taking science as a subject often have to travel long distances to attend school. The hostel offers accommodation to those learners, mainly children of farm workers, who study science at school. The poor conditions at the hostel made it difficult to attract learners to the school, and a refurbishment was necessary. The upgrades have now been made through the efforts and funding of the NRF.

So, one of the important outcomes for the Northern Cape community is that the NRF and this project have brought benefit to the community and its children. A community centre has also been constructed at Sutherland, through funding from the Department of Science and Technology. The town has many social challenges and a high rate of unemployment, with school leavers having very little opportunity to find employment. So, the purpose of the centre is ... [Time expired.]

In conclusion, the Department of Science and Technology must keep the committee updated, but we appeal to this House to adopt the report for the future success of SKA. [Applause.]

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

SECOND ORDER

FIRST ORDER

OVERSIGHT VISIT TO HEADQUARTERS OF AUDITOR-GENERAL OF SOUTH AFRICA

(Consideration of Report of Standing Committee on Auditor–General thereon)

Adv T M MASUTHA: Chairperson, colleagues, it is my singular honour and pleasure to present this report on the visit we undertook as the Standing Committee on the Auditor-General to the headquarters of the Auditor-General in Pretoria and a follow-up visit the following day to one of its provincial offices, namely the Gauteng office, which is situated in Houghton in Johannesburg.

The purpose of the visit was two-fold. The first was to exercise our oversight function, as prescribed under the Public Audit Act, PAA, and, of course, acting on behalf of this House,on the institution of the Auditor-General, which, in terms of the Constitution, also reports to this House.

The second purpose was to afford members the opportunity to go through an orientation session and familiarise themselves with both the faces behind the different units within the executive and top management of the Auditor-General's office and their different operations. They had the opportunity to see how they conduct their work and were also taken through some of the challenges and difficulties they encounter.

Let me indicate at the outset that as the chairperson of this committee, I sleep like a baby at night. I sleep in the comfort of being confident that if ever there were concerns about interference with the independence of the Auditor-General in this country, it is something of the past - if it ever existed.

I interact regularly with the Auditor-General and his deputy. At no stage have I come across any inkling to suggest any discomfort on their part at anyone from the executive, or elsewhere, putting them under any form of pressure. I really would like to compliment all three spheres of government on upholding their constitutional obligation to ensure the independence of the Auditor-General office, so that the staff are able to perform their audits without fear, favour or prejudice.

I would also like to express appreciation to the institution of the Auditor-General, which turned 100 in May this year, for making a significant contribution towards skills development. Skills development is one of the priority policy areas in the country, as outlined by the President, starting from this year.

Historically, this country, like many other countries in the world, has been short of auditors, whose jobs are regarded as a rare skill. Historically, the face of an auditor in South Africa was that of a grey-haired, white male. Based on the evidence and the visits that we have conducted, I am proud to say today that we met young, handsome and beautiful African ladies and gentlemen below the age of 30 who were already qualified as auditors. We take pride in this office's contribution towards a transformation in skills development in this country, which is in line with the ANC's proclaimed National Democratic Revolution to deracialise society and make sure that women participate.

On that note, I also want to specifically alert the House to the fact that the trainee auditor scheme, which the Auditor-General is currently conducting to produce new auditors, has the largest number of auditor trainees in the country, amounting to close to 1 000 at present. Of those auditor trainees, 53% are women. In general, 97% of those trainees are black, 88% of which are actually Africans. So, the current Auditor-General is really making strides to ensure that the objectives of the Constitution and the policy objectives of this country - to transform society with regard to skills distribution - are achieved.

He has gone further and lifted the rate of professionalisation. It is generally known that if you put trainees into a training scheme, you are likely to end up with only 5 to 8% of them eventually becoming auditors. The current Auditor-General has lifted that percentage and today we have a performance rate of over 30%. In other words, in terms of the scheme that they have devised, the prospects of success have been increased significantly. I think that is a major achievement in terms of our objective of skills development, especially in the area of rare and significant skills, and the contribution that that institution is making.

The one concern I need to convey relates to the financial sustainability of the institution, especially in relation to a default in the payment of fees. As you are aware, auditees pay for the services rendered by the Auditor-General. The Auditor-General does generally not receive a budget from Treasury. It is critical that upon performance of audit work, auditees actually pay their fees.

About 43% of the outstanding debt in unpaid audit fees comes from municipalities. There are a number of challenges, of course, which we acknowledge in the report. You will notice that we address that in the findings and recommendations we were making. It is critical that Treasury, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, and other relevant authorities look at other ways of assisting those municipalities that genuinely find it difficult to fulfil their obligations.

Let me also just say that one of the laudable interventions that the Auditor-General has made is to actually go down to the auditees to try and understand what it is that contributes to the perpetuation of disclaimers. He tried to engage with leadership at all levels to ensure that these issues are zoomed into, that advice is given, without compromising the independence that the Auditor-General must maintain, so that he does not become the player and referee at the same time.

I think it is late in the day. Let me pause at this juncture and commend the report of the committee to the House. [Applause.]

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

THIRD ORDER

SECOND ORDER

2009-10 ANNUAL REPORT OF SOUTH AFRICAN SOCIAL SECURITY AGENCY, SASSA

(Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Social Development thereon)

Ms Y R BOTHA: Chairperson, deliberations on the annual report of the South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, by the Portfolio Committee on Social Development were very thorough. Sassa provides social assistance to over 15 million South Africans. During the 2009-10 financial year, there was a definite growth in the uptake percentages of the grant types.

In terms of the disability grant, there was a slight decrease - because of the temporary disability grants - of minus 1,7%. In terms of the old-age uptake, there was an increase of 6,5%. In terms of the war veterans - the Second World War veterans - there was a decrease of 18,9% because of natural attrition. In terms of care dependency, there was a growth of 3,4%. There was a 9,2% growth in terms of the child support grant and a 7,6% growth in terms of the foster child grant.

The key strategic priorities for the 2009-10 financial year were customer care-centred benefits administration and management systems, improved organisational capacity and, thirdly, comprehensive and integrated social security administration and services.

The committee accepted the audit response plan of the agency. The agency submitted the annual financial statements in August instead of on 31 May. They received a disclaimer audit report and in terms of what they have presented to the committee, with the audit response plan, we were fairly satisfied that they would bring the agency back on track in terms of what it is supposed to be doing regarding its financial management.

This week, the new chief executive officer, CEO, presented to the portfolio committee plans to improve the management of the agency and also to improve service delivery innovation. This will obviously go a long way in ensuring that the agency operates optimally, as it is expected to.

Coming to the recommendations of the portfolio committee, the committee said that the agency should conduct awareness campaigns to educate communities on age equalisation, on the old-age grant for male beneficiaries of 60 years, and on the extension of the child support grant to 18-year-old beneficiaries. When we look at the child support grant, CSG, this will be especially great in keeping children in school, since children up to the age of 18 will now be eligible for the child support grant.

The agency should also improve the review of social grants. The committee expressed concerns over the lengthy review period of social grants.

Lastly, the department and Sassa should focus more on monitoring and evaluation measures and, most importantly, on risk management as these are critical tools to curb the challenges faced by the agency in its operations.

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

THIRD ORDER

Ms Y R BOTHA

STUDY TOUR TO VENICE COMMISSION AND STRASBOURG

(Consideration of Report of Constitional Review Committee thereon)

Adv A H GAUM: Chairperson, the Constitutional Review Committee, the CRC, had observed that it might not have been aggressive enough in exploring, interrogating and exercising its functions during the first 12 years of South Africa's democratic era. As a result, the CRC has once again considered the mandate it has received from the Constitution in terms of which it is to review the Constitution annually, seeking to play a more meaningful and proactive role in this regard.

The CRC identified various opportunities to enhance its knowledge and understanding of its role and mandate by seeking assistance from institutions such as the Venice Commission, perceived as the world's think-tank and repository of knowledge, expertise and practical skills relating to constitutional matters. The Venice Commission extended an invitation to the CRC to send a five-member delegation to its two-day plenary session in Venice, on 15 and 16 October last year.

The Venice Commission is composed of independent experts in the field of law and political science. The members are senior academics, particularly in the fields of constitutional or international law, supreme or constitutional court judges, or members of national parliaments.

The Venice Commission consists of 57 full member states, which are all Council of Europe member states; one associate member state, Belarus; seven observer states; as well as South Africa and the Palestinian authority, which have a special co-operations status similar to that of the observers.

The Venice Commission played a significant role not only in the constitutional negotiations leading to democracy but also in assisting the Constitutional Assembly to formulate the final Constitution of 1996. The Commission also played a vital role in assisting to consolidate South Africa's democracy through its assistance to the Constitutional Court, as well as in creating a forum in which African Constitutional Court Justices meet to exchange professional experiences and foster constitutionalism throughout Africa.

The Venice Commission's most important advisory role is to provide opinions on constitutional matters at the request of member states. The Venice Commission could be of great benefit to South Africa in two areas. Firstly, the CRC needs to interpret the Constitution to determine what it requires from the committee, as the South African courts cannot be requested to interpret the relevant constitutional provisions, in view of the fact that our courts do not provide advisory opinions. Therefore, the Venice Commission would be uniquely qualified and positioned to assist in this regard.

Secondly, the Constitutional Review Committee is of the view that the review of the Constitution, annually, involves not only assessing whether or not the Constitution requires amendment but also the health of our Constitution, including the state of implementation and its transformational impact on society. In this regard, there would be a need to develop a new methodology, towards which the Venice Commission could contribute significantly. This will require closer co-operation between South Africa and the Commission, which may require South Africa to consider a verbal invitation that we have received from the Commission to join it as a full member.

Although the Venice Commission had taken a decision in principle not to extend its membership beyond its current number, it is willing to make an exception in South Africa's case, motivated not only by the Commission's long history of exchanges with South Africa but also because of the value the South African constitutional experience holds for many other countries, especially those on the African continent.

If South Africa were to join as a full member, the South African government would be responsible for identifying an extraordinary South African Constitutional Law expert who would be required to attend the Venice Commission meetings in Venice four times a year. Once South Africa acquired membership of the Venice Commission, it would be able to request the Venice Commission to express advisory opinions and provide other assistance in respect of legislation or constitutional reforms or other relevant legal matters.

In addition to its interactions with the Venice Commission, the CRC received a briefing from Dr Anil Sooklal, South African Ambassador to the European Union, on matters related to the European Parliament and its Parliamentary Committee on Constitutional Affairs, as well as on the delegation for the relations with South Africa. The committee also met with Mr Michael O'Boyle, the Registrar of the European Court of Human Rights, who informed it about the role of the court and its application of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Following the study tour, the CRC's main recommendation is that the verbal invitation extended by the Venice Commission to South Africa to become a full member of the Commission be conveyed to the Department of International Relations and Co-operation and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development for further action in that regard. [Applause.]

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

FIFTH ORDER

FOURTH ORDER

PUBLIC HEARINGS CONCERNING ACCESS AND DELIVERY OF QUALITY EDUCATION

(Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Basic Education thereon)

Mrs H H MALGAS: Chairperson, this report has afforded the members of the committee an opportunity to understand several pressure points and challenges in the system of basic education which need to be addressed in order to improve quality learning and teaching in our schools.

The report deals primarily with issues raised by teachers on the ground as well as by other key stakeholders, such as parents, unions, academics, nongovernmental organisations, and the business sector, identified as having a role to play in the successful implementation of quality education.

The report raises several problem areas pertaining to the curriculum and relating to curriculum design and structure and its implementation. It also identifies other issues that feature prominently in relation to the delivery of quality education. These include: issues at school level; access to education for vulnerable children; teacher management; and district and departmental issues.

With regard to the curriculum, we made recommendations concerning the quantity of content to be taught in certain subjects, training to impart values, and other issues. The recommendations included increasing support to teachers. The department is already working on this.

We welcome the host of initiatives to address the gaps in curriculum design, structure and implementation that we brought to the department's attention and which they are working on. These include: the introduction of the comprehensive Curriculum and Assessment Policy Statement, Caps, to provide content and assessment specification on a grade-by-grade and subject-by-subject basis; the allocation of time for physical education within the timetable of Caps; the planned reduction in the number of subjects from eight to six in the Intermediate Phase, with effect from 2012; the provision of workbooks for Grades 1 to 4; the introduction of critical annual national assessment in order to track learners' progress; and guide planning in order to help improve learning success in Grades 3 and 6.

We are satisfied, because these things are being done. Preparations for programmes to be implemented in 2012 are being done in 2011. We are also satisfied that government is targeting the appropriate areas in response to other issues that feature prominently in relation to the delivery of quality education. These include: improvement in teacher development; early childhood development; inclusive education; and special schools.

During our recent oversight visits to Mpumalanga and North West provinces, we observed the progress government is making in broadening access to special services for Learners with Special Educational Needs - that is, LSEN.

We are also encouraged that government is working on improving school infrastructure through the roll-out of the Accelerated School Infrastructure Delivery Initiative, ASIDI, programme. With regard to teachers' development, the committee will closely monitor the implementation of the new teacher development plan, to ensure that it is translated into a wide range of teachers' training material and collaborative professional development.

Why acknowledge strides made so far? We are mindful of the magnitude of this task. Areas that still need attention include the implementation of measures to address inconsistencies in the classification of schools, the quintile system, and subsidising parents in expenses related to school uniforms, shoes and stationery.

In conclusion, we are encouraged by the coherent vision of the department to address many of these challenges, as alluded to in the report and as articulated in the Action Plan to 2014: Towards the Realisation of Schooling 2025. It is crucial that all education stakeholders - including Parliament, principals, teachers, unions, parents, NGOs, institutions of higher education and business – address themselves to assisting the department in these challenges. Education is not only the responsibility of the Department of Basic Education, but it is a societal issue.

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

SIXTH ORDER - Mr S G THOBEJANE

FIFTH ORDER

LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL TO CORRECT ANOMALIES IN EXECUTIVE MEMBERS' ETHICS ACT 82 OF 1998

(Consideration of Report of Committee on Private Members' Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions thereon)

Sepedi::

Mr S G THOBEJANE: Modulasetulo, Komiti ya Private Members Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions e hlomilwe go ya ka molao wa Palamente, gagolo karolwana ya bo209. E tšeya maatla a yona go tšwa go karolo ya bo211. Yona bjalo ka komiti, e dira mmereko ka morago ga ge Ofisi ya Spikara e tla ba e re rometše dimemorantamo tša go tšwa go Maloko a Palamente.

Go ya ka tshepedišo ya komiti, re ile ra kgetha go fediša Molao

wa bo 138(e) wo o re filego maatla a gore re dire kutu tša melaotlhahlo tšeo di tlago hlahla komiti go fihlelela go dira mmereko wa yona ntle le mathata. Seo sa re dira gore re tšweletše karolwana ya bo235(a) yeo e setšego e amogetšwe ke komiti ya ka fase ya Molawana wa Palamente. Ka mo gare ga wona Molawana wo, re tšweleditše dintlha tše di latelago tšeo e lego kutu tša melaotlhahlo tša komiti:...

English::

Firstly, we guard against going against the spirit, purport and object of the Constitution; secondly, seek to initiate the legislation beyond the legislative competency of the Assembly; thirdly, duplicate the existing legislation or legislation awaiting consideration by the Assembly or the Council; fourthly, pre-empt similar legislation soon to be introduced by the national executive that will result in the Money Bill; and lastly, such particular proposal should not be frivolous or facetious.

In the light of the above, the Committee on Private Members Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions unanimously resolved that hon I O Davidson should not be allowed to proceed with the proposed legislation to correct the anomalies in the Executive Members' Ethics Act 82 of 1998.

The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development was given an opportunity to make a presentation to us. The committee realised after the presentation that it was very clear that the department's intention was to make sure that the legislation should soon be introduced to close that particular challenge that was identified by the hon Davidson. We then utilised Principle D, to avoid pre-empting similar legislation soon to be introduced by the national executive. We then resolved that Mr Davidson should not be given an opportunity to proceed with the legislative proposal.

Sepedi:

Re kgopela gore Ntlo ye e amogele pego ye gomme e tšeiwe bjale ka ge e bolela. Ke a leboga.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon members, requests for declarations of vote have been received. I will now allow up to three minutes to one member of each political party wishing to make a declaration to do so.

DECLARATIONS OF VOTE - Mr P J C PRETORIUS

Mr S G THOBEJANE

Declarations of vote:

Mr P J C PRETORIUS: Mr Chairman, I gladly follow the hon Thobejane. He takes his role as chairperson very seriously and I commend him for that.

The DA will support this report but need to point out why we do so with some reservation. This proposal by Mr Davidson was prompted by the President's late declaration of his interests last year and the Public Protector's finding in that regard.

The Committee on Private Members' Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions considers proposals in terms of six criteria, as the chairperson has mentioned. One of these criteria is to consider whether the executive would soon bring similar legislation. This private member's proposal was referred to the committee on 04 May 2010 and on 25 August 2010 the sponsor briefed the committee on its content. A process of consultation and deliberation then followed.

Key in this consultation process was information supplied to the committee by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development on the executive's own legislative plans in the months ahead. The committee was informed by the department on 16 March 2011 that government was indeed going to bring similar legislation. The committee heard that Cabinet had already approved the principle underlying the Executive Members Ethics Act in November 2010 and, further, that government's own Executive Members Ethics Bill would in all probability be submitted for Cabinet's approval in the same month, March 2011, and to Parliament for consideration in April 2011. This submission that sets out government's timeframes formed the basis for the committee's resolution to recommend that the proposal of Mr Davidson should not proceed since it pre-empted similar legislation soon to be introduced by the executive.

We are now in mid-August, four months later, and sadly there is still no sign of the promised legislation before Parliament. This is clearly unsatisfactory and we need an explanation for the delay. For the Committee on Private Members' Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions to be able to do its work properly and taken seriously, it needs the support and co-operation of the executive.

I want to urge the Leader of Government Business to look into this matter and ensure that the legislation reaches Parliament urgently. Our committee also recently took a resolution in respect of the proposal to repeal the SA Boxing Act. The deadline provided for the introduction of that Bill is drawing closer and we will closely watch government's actions or inaction in that regard.

Finally, we will nevertheless support this report before the House but urge the executive to take this committee and Parliament seriously. [Applause.]

Ms C DUDLEY

Mr P J C PRETORIUS

Ms C DUDLEY: Chair, the ACDP welcomes the opportunity to comment on private members' legislative proposals in this House. This is a rare occurrence. The proposals themselves, of course, did not make it to the National Assembly, which is unfortunate even if simply because it is the fate of almost all other proposals. Most Members of Parliament, if they were honest with themselves, believe that the committee that sits to consider proposals is just for show and a complete waste of members' time, as no proposal ever sees the light of day.

The proposal to regulate private funding of political parties, by hon Greyling, is one that the ACDP supports. This issue is important if we value multiparty democracy but sadly to date the majority have not taken it seriously. We are disappointed, although not surprised, that the proposal has been stopped in its tracks.

The proposal by the DA speaks to a statement by the Public Protector in a recent report into the President's breach of ethics code which urges Parliament to consider an amendment to the Executive Members Ethics Act to address all uncertainties or anomalies.

In principle, the ACDP would have no problem considering a proposal of this nature. However, the recommendation of the committee is that the proposal is not feasible and should not proceed. Although this is a standard response, the committee does say the proposal pre-empts legislation that is soon to be introduced by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development in the form of the Executive Members Ethics Amendment Bill. This Bill was approved in principle by Cabinet and the final approval is expected in March, for Parliament to consider it in April. So, the ACDP accepts this explanation and will engage with proposals when the Bill gets to Parliament.

Mrs M T KUBAYI

Mrs C DUDLEY

Mrs M T KUBAYI: The ANC welcomes the report presented by the chairperson of the Committee on Private Members' Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions.

I think it's important to highlight how the committee works so that we don't end up being misguided in terms of what happens. A perception has been given by hon Dudley, for example, that what goes before the committee becomes something that does not happen properly or could not even be regarded as work being done by Members of Parliament.

I think it's important to note that the work of the committee is guided by the Rules of this House, which have been agreed upon by all parties. For example, one of the Rules that guides the committee is that we need to make sure that when we agree on a legislative proposal, we are not dealing with legislation that is anticipated from the executive. This is what has happened in this case.

Though we welcome that the issue of the timeframe was raised, we think it is a challenge we will be able to deal with. When a timeframe has been put in place, we will be able to follow up in order to monitor the work that has been agreed upon. I think we agree and understand this.

However, I think hon Dudley should, for example, go to the effort of understanding the process that the deliberations have gone through because it was quite an extensive process. We don't decide on a matter in a one-day meeting. It takes several meetings, briefings and engagements by the committee itself and involving a variety of people who are relevant to the process. I think this House should understand that the committee does not sit just to dump issues or does not take the work of the committee and members seriously. That is the impression the hon Dudley is giving, and it's not correct.

While the hon Dudley is alone and not able to go to all the committees, understanding the work and processes of a particular committee is important. The public is watching and we really don't want them thinking that what we are doing is wrong because they are being misinformed. Therefore I thought it's important for us to clarify this matter and be quite clear on how we work and process matters. After all, that committee is one of the critically important committees of Parliament, because it deals with what members regard as being important enough to be introduced as legislation. If we can understand the work of this committee and the processes it follows, before we make unsuitable comments that give the wrong perception to the public, things will be fine.

Lastly, I think that part of what was presented here by the chairperson is quite important and true, and we still welcome the work that is being done by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. They have been able to introduce a lot of legislation that has worked, while dealing with the issue of members' ethics. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs J D KILIAN

Mrs M T KUBAYI

Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, I think it's a pity that we do not have many members in the House, but I do believe that this is one of those matters that we must be very, blatantly honest about. The fact is that the Constitution, as well as this House's Rules, makes provision for any person in this House to introduce a legislative proposal.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order, please!

Mrs J D KILIAN: What is happening at present is, yes, it is true that there are certain criteria on the basis of which new legislative proposals are evaluated. Then we try, as a committee, to come to a common agreement of whether we should proceed or not, based on legislation that is probably in the process and is to be tabled soon. [Interjections.]

The concerns expressed here today by opposition parties must be taken to heart because, to date, there has not been any proposal from any member in the opposition ranks that has ever been successful. [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mrs J D KILIAN: We believe it's time that we make that public and say it is evident that there is an attempt by the ANC to absolutely push aside any constructive proposal from the opposition.

This instance relates to the executive and the ethics of how they present themselves to this House and to the public of South Africa. There are other, similar proposals. I don't think we should just brush over this. We should take this to heart and say: Is it necessary for this committee to exist?

Mrs L S CHIKUNGA: Chair, on a point of order: I am not sure if the hon member is debating or raising a point of order. If she is debating, she must be given the opportunity to stand there and address the House. This is not a point of order, it's not anything - she is debating from the floor. I think that is out of order. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, the hon member was making a declaration and she can make it from where she was. She is allowed to do that. However, she is already seated.

Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, thank you for that. I think the hon member needs to study the Rules because I have the full right to make a declaration from here. [Applause.]

Mr P D DEXTER: Chair, on a point of order: One of the members on the other side of the House made a gesture and I would like to find out from you whether it's parliamentary. While Mrs Kilian was speaking, hon September made this gesture. Now, I am not sure what it means, but I thought perhaps you could guide us. [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, I know that we are not allowed to make obscene gestures. However, since you don't even know what that one means, how am I going to rule? [Laughter.] How am I going to rule if you don't know? Order!

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the report be adopted.

Agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

SEVENTH ORDER

SIXTH ORDER

LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL TO REGULATE PRIVATE FUNDING OF POLITICAL PARTIES (MR L GREYLING)

(Consideration of Report of Committee on Private Members' Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions thereon)

Mr S G THOBEJANE: Chairperson, this proposal presented to the committee by the hon Greyling seeks to regulate the private funding of political parties. We had to consult with stakeholders in this. It seems my focus may have been distracted by the declarations! [Laughter.]

When dealing with proposals such as this, we always try by all means to arrive at a consensus. To date, as a result of these efforts, the work of the committee has been running smoothly. Of course it is disturbing and worrying when allegations are raised that the committee is not doing its work in accordance with the requirements. This may not necessarily be the correct picture, but it is a worry.

While dealing with this particular piece of legislation proposed by the hon Greyling, we went out and met with the Presidency, the ethics committee and portfolio committees responsible for the work that was before us. As I said earlier, when I presented the other report, we also looked at the principles and guidelines that had been agreed upon by all of us in this House to see if this proposal had any elements of unconstitutionality. We went even further and got legal advice from Parliament. [Interjections.] I'm not sure whether Parliament's legal advisers are weaker than those you may provide, but I thought we were given legal advice. [Interjections.] No, no, let's respect the institution. It is led by people. We must give them that ... [Interjections.] Come again?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order, hon member. [Laughter.]

Mr S G THOBEJANE: We were made to understand that if it were considered and given the opportunity to go ahead, this proposal had an element that might have a negative impact on the promotion of constitutional values that underlie the multiparty system of this South African democratic government. This was also reflected in section 1(d) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. This particular area refers to "bigger parties". I am sure "bigger parties" may be defined as those that manage some part of governance.

People who choose to give money to the ANC are not frightened to do so because it is the ruling party. They will do so openly and frankly. People who are making donations in this part of the country may be willing to give money to the DA because it is the ruling party in this part of the country. But when it comes to parties that do not own or run any part of government - including Cope, hon Swart - it will be difficult for donors to give them money openly and honestly. Therefore this would be killing smaller parties indirectly. We then said that this needed to be looked at.

We were again made to look at section 8 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. It calls for the status of a political party to be that of a juristic person. This means they have the right of confidentiality and privacy when they run their business.

We also looked at section 14 of the Constitution, which speaks about privacy, freedom of expression, freedom of association, political rights and so on. Again we said we could not violate the rights and freedom of political parties to be funded by private individuals out there. Trying to look at that, we then said it was not necessary to have legislation that would compel political parties to disclose their dealings with private donors. Therefore we recommend that hon Greyling's proposal should not be given the opportunity to proceed.

I think the entire committee reached consensus in this regard. We unanimously agreed that there was no need to have this kind of legislation governing our democracy in South Africa. Chair, we hope you will allow the House space to adopt this report. [Applause.]

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

THE DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

Mr S G THOBEJANE

ANNUAL REPORT AND FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF NATIONAL STUDENT FINANCIAL AID SCHEME FOR 2009/10 FINANCIAL YEAR

(Consideration of Report of Committee on Public Accounts thereon)

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

Agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

The House adjourned at 17:12.


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