Hansard: Appropriation Bill: Debate on Vote No 3 – Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 21 Apr 2010
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Minutes
START OF DAY
THURSDAY, 22 APRIL 2010
PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
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Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 16:32.
House Chairperson Ms M N Oliphant, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Debate)
Debate on Vote No 3 – Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Chairperson, Deputy Minister Comrade Yunus Carrim, members of the House and the committee led by Comrade S L Tsenoli, MECs, mayors, executive mayors, traditional leaders led by Khosi Kutama, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, before I came here, I spoke to the House Chairperson, saying that the parliamentary liaison officer should humbly ask Parliament to at least supply us with a temporary stand. He used a sophisticated English word that I didn't understand - not "podium". He explained that this was a Heritage building. I said even so, there should be a temporary stand so that we are comfortable when we speak here, not holding our notes in our hands. I saw some of the Ministers when they were delivering their speeches - their papers were spilling out. But we are told it is an issue.
Having mentioned that, it is indeed a pleasure and honour for me to be afforded this opportunity to table the Budget Vote for the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, today, in this House, for the financial year 2010-11. For us, this occasion is exciting in many ways.
In this Budget Vote, we are presenting an assessment of what we have done in the past year and, of course, outlining the programmes and projects that will be undertaken in the coming year. These projects and programmes are aimed at contributing to the improvement of the quality of the lives of our people. This year is different in its nature and character, because the budgeting process is outcomes-based, and there are also the performance agreements that the Ministers will have with the President. The Ministers will then have agreements with their colleagues at national and provincial government levels and with all municipalities across the length and breadth of the country. For us as the ANC-led government, this is an exciting time.
The other very important thing is that in order to deal with the issues in South Africa, we conducted an assessment last year. We looked at all municipalities across our country. We focused on five areas: the issue of service delivery, particularly access to basic services; the reversal of apartheid spatial patterns in the townships and suburbs, the urban and rural areas - we have managed to change that to ensure that we build a nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous South Africa; financial viability and the management of the resources we have; partnerships between communities, government, employers and organised labour; and the issue of governance - looking at a particular way of managing things.
The outcome of this assessment overall showed that the system of local governance is functional and things are happening. However, some areas of distress were identified. One thing is for sure: when you wake up in the morning and you press a button on the wall, you get electricity. When you open a tap, you get water and when you walk on the streets, traffic lights are functioning and waste is managed - except when there is a strike. Therefore, based on that, we can say that the system of local government is functioning. [Laughter.]
We also believe intergovernmental fiscal relations to be one of the most important areas of focus. The baseline on which local government and municipalities allocate resources needs to be changed because it is based on the assumption that the municipalities raise 95% of their own revenue. They were expected to be able to take care of their own responsibilities. That is why we have the situation where the number-one revenue generator for municipalities is electricity - and electricity is cross-subsidising other services. The money cannot be reinvested in maintenance and in the broadening of access. This issue is being considered and we will have a discussion with the Minister of Economic Development and the Minister of Energy to look at these questions.
One of the fundamental issues that is important to us is how the money that comes from electricity charges can be utilised in a way that benefits our people. At the same time, the budget must not only look at the population statistics but also at topography, backlogs - at quite range of issues - when allocating resources. Therefore we are advocating a change in the way resources are allocated in the different spheres of government in South Africa.
In many municipalities, competent officials are employed. However, incompetent people who do not meet the required standard are also employed. We will ensure that in all municipalities there are six posts which are compulsory, namely the municipal manager, chief financial officer, town engineer, town planner, human resource manager and the communications manager.
The system of public participation, which involves our people at ward level, has to be reviewed and revamped. We must ensure that the issues that are raised at ward level find expression at the municipal level. We must be able to ensure that the council discusses the issues of the wards, so that the system is responsive to the needs of our people on the ground.
We will be working with National Treasury to deal with the issue of the supply chain management system because we believe that we must be able to close loopholes where there are elements of corruption. Councillors will be removed from the supply chain so that they cannot be tainted by that system, and then we will be able to deal with corruption. What we have done so far didn't help. That's why, going forward, we want to review the whole supply chain system because we want to ensure that money goes where it is supposed to go. The money intended for the poor, the vulnerable and the marginalised must benefit them.
We must also ensure that a partnership and spirit of camaraderie is built between the workers and the leaders of local government. Before the workers became workers, they were - and are - members of the community. And before the leaders of local government became leaders of local government, they were – and are - members of the community. We must at all times rise above sectoral, petty interests and look at bigger interests. Going forward, we must be able to work together on these issues because when we do, we will be serving our people and our nation in the right way. These issues will be taken up to improve the way we govern the communities that we are supposed to serve.
Martin Luther King Jr referred to such concerted actions as the "language of the unheard" - the involvement of our people in terms of what has to happen.
We have identified Salga as the most important strategic partner in the execution and implementation of the Local Government Turnaround Strategy. Salga will officially adopt the Local Government Turnaround Strategy at their national members' assembly, which will be taking place next month, in May, in the Northern Cape.
Our point of view is that the Local Government Turnaround Strategy is a road map, a starting point. It has to be followed. It is a document that will ensure that policies that will be developed and laws that will be crafted for many years to come will be based on this strategy. Therefore we are calling upon all our people from all walks of life in our country to ensure that they read and understand the Local Government Turnaround Strategy because it is going to be with us for a long time to come.
Within the Local Government Turnaround Strategy, we have developed a Ten Point Plan. It focuses on areas that must be taken forward. To summarise one of the key things that are exciting to us, we will be co-ordinating all Ministries and all departments in dealing with the issues of water, electricity, sanitation, refuse removal, disaster management and the municipal roads. The resources that will be unleashed are going to improve the quality of lives of our people.
The department has also been given the responsibility of ensuring that it creates jobs. We have been given a Community Works Programme by the Presidency in terms of which we are expected to ensure that we employ people. We can assure you who are in this House that you can expect dramatic announcements next year in terms of what is going to happen. We will ensure that our people are able to deliver all these things; that the issues of co-operative governance are taken up and co-operatives are unleashed. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order, hon members!
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: We are in the process of developing these plans. We won't announce them prematurely. The programme is with us now, we are driving it and we are taking it forward.
We are raising issues that are important to all of us, as Members of Parliament and as citizens. Before we can become Members of Parliament, we must ensure that the municipalities where we live are doing what is supposed to be done.
Hon Chairperson, Martin Luther King Jr said:
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
From our side, we believe that we will be able to turn local government around, because its functionality or dysfunctionality affects everyone. Municipalities are run by different parties. No party that is governing can claim to be immune from the challenges of local government. If you go to KwaZulu-Natal's municipalities under the leadership of the IFP, they are also experiencing problems. The same applies to the Western Cape - municipalities under the DA are also experiencing challenges. Equally, municipalities under the ANC are experiencing problems.
You would know that the municipalities under the ANC would enjoy prominence because the ANC is running over 70% of the municipalities. This means that in every 10 municipalities, seven are run by the ANC. Therefore they will enjoy prominence in terms of what is going to happen.
We have taken the view that a one-size-fits-all approach to dealing with municipalities doesn't work because the conditions are objectively and subjectively different in each and every municipality. So we have developed a programme called the Municipal Specific Turnaround Strategy. In terms of that strategy we are able to gather the views of every municipality so that we can respond to their situations. As we speak, we have managed to go to 232 of 283 municipalities. We are at 82% of the turnaround strategies. We believe that by the end of this month, all municipalities will be covered, including those in the Western Cape and KwaZulu-Natal.
We also believe that this programme will inform the municipal budgets that have to be approved now, in May and June. Their implementation is based on the will of our people and the strategy that has been developed. It is not something that was developed around the corner, or somewhere out there. As a department we should engage political parties in the preparations for the local government elections.
One of the things that we are going to look at is that, come 2011, the quality of cadres deployed by political parties to lead municipalities should be able to take them to another level. We also believe that when these cadres come, we are going to train them so that they can hit the ground running. We are strengthening our local academy, to ensure that people are trained and that they have the same way of doing things.
What we have experienced in South Africa is that people come from different schools of thought. Training is given by different institution; and there is no uniformity in their approach. We ended up not being able to run the same system in the same way. We are doing it differently. We are going to address those issues. Our vision is to ensure that by 2014, we should have municipalities that are efficient, effective, responsive and accountable to the citizens. We are urging everyone to focus on that vision. Let us ensure that this vision is implemented, translated into reality and that we are able to move forward.
One of the most exciting things is the establishment of the Department of Traditional Affairs, and not traditional leadership. We hope that by 1 July, the DG and the DDGs will be starting to work in this department. This department is going to ensure that the voices of the indigenous people, those in rural areas, are heard in policy development, legislative crafting, budgeting, planning and implementation.
This means that people from the rural areas will now have a voice in the way things are done. At the same time, we believe, we will be able to ensure that we address the issue of culture and diversity in this country. People must understand that we should be able to live together as South Africans. We should be able to accept the fact that at times the way we do things is different. People must not impose their own cultures on others. [Applause.]
We have developed policies around uKuthwala, uKungenwa and also... [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order, hon members!
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: We have developed policies on issues of traditional healing, traditional leaders, family trees, the involvement of the Khoi-san people in the governance system, and so on. We must also ensure that there are national norms and standards on the issue of traditional leaders. We should have uniformity in the way we approach things. In that way, we will be able to ensure that we have comprehensively reviewed the laws dealing with traditional affairs before the end of the year. Among the laws that will be looked at and dealt with are the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Act, No. 41 of 2003, the National House of Traditional Leaders Act and the Property Rates Act, No. 6 of 2004.
We would like to commend all our municipalities that are hosting the 2010 Soccer World Cup for the excellent work that they have done. Without them, we would not be saying today that we are ready to host the World Cup. More work was done at that level. They should continue doing so and we are proud of them. [Applause.]
Today we are presenting a budget that has been increased from R36,6 billion to about R43,5 billion. In this budget, we should be able to see the difference and the value of every rand spent. We are going to make sure that this happens. The budget for the Department of Traditional Affairs has increased from R53,3 million to over R70 million. Without fear of contradiction we believe that in South Africa the choir is beginning to sing the song very well and according to the same melody. In that way, we are going to succeed. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order, hon members! Hon Minister, I want to congratulate you. You are the first Minister not to exceed their allocated time. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, on a point of order: The reason he hasn't exceeded his time is that he has allocated his remaining time to his Deputy Minister. I thank you. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Deputy Minister, you are out of order. [Laughter.]
Ms D G NHLENGETHWA: Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, distinguished guests, the ANC Lekgotla which sat on January 2010 confirmed that intergovernmental relations between the spheres of government and between departments had to be radically improved. This would contribute directly to building and supporting local government in a co-ordinated manner. The purpose of strengthening our intergovernmental relations systems must be to accelerate the implementation of our priority programmes.
Section 152 and 153 also confirm that local government is in charge of the development process in municipalities. However, it also demands local government to improve intergovernmental co-ordination and co-operation to ensure integrated development across the three spheres of government.
The Municipal Systems Act 32 of 2000 defines integrated development planning as one of the core functions of municipalities in the context of its developmental orientation. The Municipal Systems Act requires the integrated development plan to be strategic and inclusive in nature. It should be aligned with the municipalities' resources and capacity, while forming the policy framework on which annual budgets are based. Integrated development planning must be compatible with the planning requirements of national and provincial departments. All these processes form part of public participation.
The supervisory function of the upper spheres of government entails regulating the structuring of municipalities and the exercise of their competencies. Therefore, monitoring is crucial. We also urge the upper sphere to monitor very closely structures such as Minmecs, premier's forums that engage mayors, and mayor's forums, including chief financial officers' and municipal managers' forums. They should monitor whether these bodies sit or not.
We have seen challenges where the forums of chief financial officers and of municipal managers were not sitting regularly to plan development initiatives and share information. Such structures are critical and ought to be institutionalised and strengthened in order to facilitate sound, integrated relations, a common understanding as well as a planning framework for joint project implementation.
Urgent attention needs to be paid to the two–tier system of local government. District municipalities are parachuting projects in that have not been planned for by local municipalities and have not even been included in their integrated development plans. This undermines the planning capacity of local municipalities. Districts are expected to assist and guide municipalities, especially those municipalities that continuously receive disclaimer audits reports.
IsiZulu:
NK D G NHLENGETHWA: Sihlalo, ukubambisana nokusebenzisana ndawonye kwalabohulumeni bobathathu kungaluqeda lonke udlame olukhona kohulumeni basekhaya. Sithanda ukuxwayisa-ke ukuthi ohulumeni bezifunda abayeke ukuletha intuthuko komasipala maqedane bashiye kanjalo umsebenzi ungaqediwe. Lokhu sikubona kakhulu kwenzeka ekwakhiweni kwezindlu. Ezinye izindlu azikho emgangathweni, ziyawa, ziyanetha, azinamanzi, futhi azinagesi. Lokhu kubangwa ukungaxhumani kwama-sector departments.
Siswati:
Bantfu-ke, Sihlalo, abati futsi abehlukanisi kutsi nangabe tindlu tabo tingakapheli nome tingakakheki kahle kufanel baye kuphi nakufanele babeke tikhalo tabo, nabangeneliseki ngaleto tindlu. Ekugcineni kutfolakala kutsi sekwesulelwa kubomasipala. Ngaleso sikhatsi bantfu bekhwela bayatehlela nje kumasipala.
Sihlalo, loluhlelo lwekuya ebantfwini kumele kutsi luciniswe. Bantfu kumele batshelwe kutsi kulomnyakatimali masipala unemali lengakanani. Bona-ke njengemphakatsi babona kutsi kucalwe ngani. Batisholo bona ngekwabo kutsi bafuna ini. Nakungenteki loko labakufunako, emakhansela kufanele abuyele kubantfu, ayebatjela kutsi lesikwentile ngunaku nanaku, lesingakakwenti nguloku naloku, tizatfu nguleti naleti. Aphindze abute kubo kutsi batsini-ke bona ngaloko? Loluhlelo sitawuchubeka nalo yini kulomnyakatimali lotako nome cha. Bantfu bayeva futsi bayalalela, nakunjalo-ke ngeke uwubone umsindvo.
Lenye-ke yetinkinga lesihlangabetana nato kutsi; kuyaye kutsi sekuphelile ngeluhlelo lwetetimali, ngelwabiwotimali; utsi uyavuka ekuseni ubone imikhukhu seyivumbuke njengemakhowe. Kutawutsi kungakapheli nenyanga ubone sekuhlala bantfu. Dvukudvuku, labo bantfu sebayagwayimba, sebafuna emanti, bafuna tindlu kanye netindlu tangasense. Ukhandze kutsi labo bantfu batihlomile nje kuleyo ndzawo, yindzawo yemuntfu, akusiyo indzawo yamasipala.
Nabatsi bayesuswa kuleyo ndzawo, kuze batewunikwa lusito loluncono, kusuke lesikhulu sidvumo semsindvo. Konkhe loku kubangwa ngulesimo selubandlululo lesibuya kuso. Bantfu bafuna kuya emadolobheni, bayewufuna imisebenti, nemphilo lencono kunalena yala lapho bahlala khona – lapho babekwa khona.
English:
Our liberation struggle was also against racist and tribal tendencies that confined indigenous people of South Africa to tiny, rocky and mountainous Bantustans surrounded by bush.
IsiZulu:
NK D G NHLENGETHWA: Singazi-ke Sihlalo ukuthi sasihlaliswa emahlathini nasezintabeni sasiyizimfene yini na?
English:
We inherited this kind of planning from the old planners and engineers whose planning accommodated whites only. They did not know or dream that one day, lezimfene zizophuma ehlathini [these baboons would come out of the bush] through the liberation struggle of the ANC to become human beings and join the ANC. [Applause.]
The ANC is the only movement that is caring, the only movement that is people-driven, the only movement that is people-centred and the only movement that is non-racist. The ANC is the only movement that knows that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white. [Applause.]
On 27 April 1994, we opened a new chapter in the history of the struggle to build a common citizenship and equal rights for all South Africans. We laid out a journey to bring an end to the legacy of apartheid and build a prosperous South Africa.
I want to emphasise this within the context that I am talking about: there is no island and there will never be an island here in South Africa. In 2011 we will have local government elections. We will end the reactionary tendencies and behaviour that set the Western Cape up as an island. That behaviour is counterproductive to the spirit of building a united and democratic South Africa. [Applause.]
Paragraphs 188 to 192 of the ANC strategy and tactics document state that the state must exercise its leadership by an informed popular mandate. The statement of 8 January 2010 says that this is a year of working together to speed up effective service delivery. A successful developmental state must have committed, skilled public servants, not office servants.
Accountability is key. Some councillors have fallen into the trap of outsourcing power to officials. They have allowed the officials to run the show. Officials lead the programmes and they influence council's agenda. We urge councillors to read documents and take back their positions of political leadership.
In some municipalities, accountability and the rule of law are in a state of near collapse due to corruption, patronage and factionalism. In these cases, the rules of accountability don't apply. We end up with the wrong people in municipal offices. The wrong culture has rooted and there is little hope of a professional administration ... [Time expired.]
Mr W P DOMAN
Ms D G NHLENGETHWA
Mr W P DOMAN: In the first year after their appointment, the Minister and Deputy Minister have demonstrated the political will to affect a turnaround in local government. Both have pledged, and forcibly so, to root out corruption, that councillors should be held to account and that service delivery must improve.
The hon Minister even confessed that the best comrades are not always to be found at municipalities, as they serve in the provincial and national spheres. If I look across the benches, I don't know whether I can agree. [Interjections.] Both Ministers conceded that power struggles within the ANC are having devastating effects on municipalities. The hon Deputy Minister also recently warned in a speech that it is not for the party structures to micromanage councillors, especially as this sometimes has less to do with ensuring that councillors perform effectively and more to do with influencing tenders and interfering in appointment of managers and staff.
I respect you for the views that you take. In your efforts, however, you must demonstrate that you uphold the distinction between state and party, as prescribed in our Constitution. Minister, a case in point is your interference in the North West province municipalities, where it is not clear whether there is a ministerial task team and report or whether it is only an ANC one. If it is only by the party, what authority does such a report give you to act in your ministerial capacity? And then, of course, your department cannot fund such a report and a team.
Make no mistake; we support intervention in this particular case, but it must be done correctly. In this context, it is also alarming that in a letter to the mayor of Bitou, written on the Ministry's letterhead and signed by you in April last year in which you requested an official to be seconded to Ventersdorp Local Municipality, you motivated to Bitou that in Ventersdorp – and then you give six good reasons, yes, but you go on to confuse party with state - there is a dysfunctional caucus; there is weak political leadership; there is political instability, and a lack of political cohesion. These reasons are confusing state and party. What caucuses do is not the task of your ministerial position. We, as the DA, fully recognise your right to go on party visits and even unannounced visits, but be careful of pitfalls, as you have learned with the hon Fransman last year in Cape Town, and communicate your findings and concerns through the right channels, as the intergovernmental framework legislation prescribes.
Afrikaans:
Voorsitter, die krisis by die meerderheid van munisipaliteite vererger by die dag. As 'n verslag aandui dat slegs 32 uit die 970 rioolwerke in die land ordentlik funksioneer, is dit geen wonder dat iemand van die platteland gesê het: "Ons klein dorpies ruik jy eers voordat jy dit sien." 'n Mens kry ook 'n wrang smaak in jou mond as 63% van die munisipaliteite nie kan bevestig dat hulle die riglyne vir watergebruik nakom nie.
Die Minister en sy departement kan geluk gewens word dat hulle hierdie krisis aanpak en met 'n omkeerstrategie kom wat ook 'n skoon ouditveldtog insluit. Ons het al Projek Konsolideer gehad; ons het 'n vyfjaar strategiese plan wat nou nog aan die hardloop is, en daarom het 'n mens ook 'n vraag in jou: As hierdie goed nie 'n impak gemaak het nie, wat gaan hierdie omkeerstrategie bewerkstellig? Die Minister het ten minste reg begin. Hy het wyd gekonsulteer; hy het onverskrokke eerlik knelpunte uitgewys; en hy het die burgemeesters en raadslede self betrokke gekry.
English:
The turnaround strategy will, however, not be successful unless we address the three Cs, as Advocate Paul Hoffman from the Institute of Accountability in Southern Africa has put it to the Ad Hoc Committee on Service Delivery. These are corruption, cadre deployment and capacity constraints. I agree with Adv Hoffman that the problem with corruption is that the chances of getting caught are slim, and the prospects of successful prosecution and dismissal are even slimmer. So, a culture of impunity has been created, especially at our country's municipalities. [Interjections.]
The purpose of cadre deployment is to get safe party hands on all levels of power. The DA agrees that as far as political positions are concerned, it is a party matter, but when it comes to staffing the public administration or staffing the municipalities, it is a different matter. Public servants are employees of the state, not deployees of the ruling party.
This brings us directly to the third C: capacity constraints. Our country has a shortage of skills, and the rural municipalities have an even bigger shortage. On top of this, we have the ANC-controlled municipalities that have really made a mess of transformation and affirmative action and up until today have even left a position vacant for months on end, until they can appoint not only a black person but a connected cadre, who can be placed in that position.
The turnaround strategy will only be successful if you, Minister, can change the attitude of ANC mayors and councillors. For them, the slogan, "Together we can do more" has a totally different meaning. For them, it means, "Together we can abuse more credit cards for our own benefit; together we can buy luxury vehicles for ourselves". [Interjections.] At our recent visit to the North West Province, I found that the poorer the area, the bigger the Mercedes-Benzes, BMWs and Audis and the longer the blue-light brigades that the mayors and Speakers splash out on. Apparently, it is also "Together we can do more jobs for pals".
Let's compare the West Coast District Municipality with the Alfred Nzo District Municipality in the Eastern Cape. They have a population of the same size. The executive mayor of the West Coast District Municipality has 17 personnel members; the executive mayor of Alfred Nzo has 45, and they don't know what they should do. The West Coast District Municipality in total spent 28% of its budget on staff; Alfred Nzo spent 70% of its budget on staff. Since Alfred Nzo is poorer than the West Coast, you can imagine what little is left for service delivery. [Interjections.]
It was also decided in Alfred Nzo that "we can do more" and a former uMkhonto weSizwe soldier, who is a total disaster, was appointed as chief financial officer. [Interjections.] The West Coast District Municipality appointed the best candidate on merit, and Mr H H Prins is not a white person. No-one can tell me to which party he belongs because that didn't ever come into the equation. Yes, it is, "Together we can do more contracts for our pals; together we can do more money under the table for ourselves". [Interjections.]
The ANC is really in trouble, serious trouble, when 14 of their councillors at two municipalities in Limpopo were summarily dismissed for asking too many questions about illegal tenders, which included the company of Mr Julius Malema, SGL Engineering Projects. [Interjections.] Last Wednesday they had to go to court, and the ANC was stopped in its tracks to fill these vacancies. Now it seems to me that the ANC slogan is, "Together we can do more; we can victimise those who speak out against fraud and corruption".
Afrikaans:
Voorsitter, as 'n mens na die oorgrote meerderheid van ANC-beheerde munisipaliteite kyk, kry jy die indruk dat die ANC-raadslede nie werklik omgee vir die mense nie, maar waar die DA regeer, is dit 'n perd van 'n ander kleur. Dit is 'n eiland waar daar geblom word. Hulle sal die billikheidstoelae en al die dinge reg gebruik hier in die Wes-Kaap, en daarom hoef u, Minister, u nie te bekommer oor waar die DA regeer nie. Daar sal goed regeer word.
Dit bring my by die feit dat 24 munisipaliteite onder administrasie is, maar nie een in die Noord-Kaap en Limpopo nie. Is daardie uitvoerende komitees en raadslede te bang om op te tree? Ons het aksie nodig. Dankie, Voorsitter. [Tyd verstreke.] [Applous.]
Mr T BOTHA
Mnr W P DOMAN
Mr T BOTHA: Chairperson, in order to determine the driving force behind the service delivery protests it is necessary to establish the identity of social forces ,contingent or hegemonic, that are at play. History tells us that the contingent agency will play a more visible and activist role while the hegemonic forces will become the ultimate beneficiaries of such a project. Such formations could take the form of social class with subculture character traits or a dual contingent arrangement at given historical moments designed to serve a specific purpose.
Ellen Wood, in his 1986 book Retreat from Class, argues:
A political force can be constituted and organised on the ideological and political planes constructed of various popular elements which can be bound together and motivated by purely ideological and political means, irrespective of the class connections or oppositions among them.
In contrast, one should also not assume that there is a coherent and organised social force behind these protests. Therefore I submit that where state institutions have succumbed to a subculture of kleptocracy and rampant corruption, these contingent social forces, including the lumpen proletariat, become more dominant and pervasive in our society.
These relationships are not necessarily formal. Rather they are tentative and unstructured. Ineffective government policies, corruption within the public service and ill-conceived promises made by public representatives create a breeding ground for the beneficiaries of the subculture group. Their desire to loot and illegally occupy buildings and vacant land with impunity drives their actions. This view must not be misconstrued to suggest that there are no legitimate grievances. Where legitimate grievances exist, they should be addressed speedily, as Wood suggests. I quote:
The struggle for social democracy can be conceived as plurality of 'democratic' struggles, bringing together a variety of resistances to many forms of inequality and oppression.
Any attempt to create artificial boundaries between the political and economic struggles would be dangerous and counterproductive. Hon Minister, it goes without saying that for your turnaround strategy to succeed a myriad of civil society institutions and organisations would need to be empowered to enable them to play a meaningful role in your campaign. You might want to think of a creative way of providing them, even if it is with limited funding.
You will agree with me that on the one hand governance is about the effective management of the functioning of the state machinery, the manner in which policies are implemented and the culture and the values that guide the behaviour of the public service and public representatives. Cooperative governance on the other hand is about co-ordination and ensuring that the three spheres of government work to achieve the strategic objectives, as stated in the state of the nation address. Evidence from our oversight visit to provinces proved that your department is far from achieving this strategic objective.
There are no clear guidelines on how national departments should co-operate with provincial departments to facilitate policy implementation at local level. The national departments operate without co-ordination at local level. The consequences of this vacuum are that there is mismanagement and misalignment of strategic plans among all three spheres of government, which results in poor implementation of government programmes, thus leading to the service-delivery protest.
This statement suggests that our state institutional arrangements must be seen against the background of a Constitution that exhibits characteristics of both a federal and unitary state. Some people describe our Constitution as being quasi-federal, hence the strong feature of centralisation while at the same time promoting consensual decision-making processes.
The ministerial and Member of Executive Council, MEC, fora are good examples of such consultative arrangements, albeit their decisions are only morally binding, not legally enforceable. However, we acknowledge that the value of these fora is regular monitoring of policy implementation and budgetary compliance. This is good for consensual decision-making but there is very little evidence to show that it is effective in co-ordinating government programmes at the point of implementation.
Even the proposed institutional reforms towards a unified public service will not improve the situation as long as the policy of cadre deployment remains in place. Furthermore, the general statements made by the government regarding the professionalisation of the public service remain vague and defined.
In Cope's view, the rationale for professionalising the public service should be to ensure continuity and also to serve as a staff retention strategy. Furthermore, the benefit of professionalising the public service should be to reduce political interference in the appointment of staff and ultimately to eliminate the politicisation of the process of service delivery, nepotism and cronyism.
We caution that the idea of an integrated public service should not be a ploy to reduce the powers of the lower spheres of government or to promote greater centralisation. Instead it should be a strategy to encourage mobility across all spheres of government and promote career-pathing. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr P F SMITH
Mr T BOTHA
Mr P F SMITH: Chairperson, last year the Minister was a very animated choir master and I remember him waving his arms around everywhere. This year it's fair to say he is rather a prophet because he is promising us all the good things to come. I only hope that we don't have to wait for a long time before prophecies come true, as with other prophets in the past. The fact is that he starts to deliver now on some of his promises.
Having said this, and to be honest with you, I think the department deserves our support today. For the first time we're see somebody who is at least serious about doing something to solve the problems in local government and the country's governance at large. A lot of good things are happening but I will refer to a couple of them.
We approve the creation of the traditional affairs side of the department. For the reasons you outlined, we hope that it will succeed in dealing with the issues you raised.
We also approve the "all of government" focus on local government, rather than the exclusive focus of the past. When we visited the municipalities, looking into the service protests, it was very clear that the peoples' objections are not to local government per se but to governance as a whole. Often they targeted more the provincial government than the local government. The "all of government" protest is necessary.
We approve the department's approach to business. Before, it was very technocratic in its approach, and aloof. Now we have a far more engaging department, a department that is more active in going out to the community. There is less of a "one size fits all" approach and the recognition that more and new approaches are needed to solve our problems. We approve of that.
We also approve of the short-term approach in solving problems and the local government crisis. I refer here to the turnaround strategy and also to the Clean Water Campaign.
Let me now raise some of the problem areas instead of the positives. First, concerning the turnaround strategy, we are very unhappy that you shifted the deadline for submissions from the end of March to the end of April. This does not necessarily signify a wasted outcome but what it does show is weak leadership from the department in driving the process. Having taken the lead in December to get Cabinet to approve it, to allow process to arise, you now have to shift the deadlines because two provinces were not doing their job. That does not show real leadership. In KwaZulu-Natal, for example, 10 days before the deadline, and before the Minister first met with municipality to discuss this issue, I wanted to ask the Ministry why that was allowed to happen.
The Minister is right to say that the turnaround strategy is a long-term thing, not a five-minute thing. The question is, what comes next to give support to it, particularly since the problems they are trying to address require resources, both human and financial. We are sitting with the situation where, unless we look afresh at the allocation of financial resources in this country, we are not going to solve the problem. There are huge backlogs in infrastructure. If we continue with the same funding mechanisms as we are now - this applies to the grants and Equitable Share - we are not going to eliminate these backlogs. So, what is the department doing to sustain the turnaround strategy that is likely to deliver and address capacity constraints?
I want to mention the fact that the turnaround strategy is a good thing. It focuses on what municipalities themselves are doing. It does not focus - and I haven't heard enough about this - on what is being done to support their endeavours in areas where there are other problems. I'll give you an example: What is being done about the unpaid government debt to provincial and national municipalities? We hear about it every year.
There was a court case in Gauteng a year ago. We thought that that court case would result in no more municipalities having to sue government. Now Ulundi municipality is suing the provincial government for R90 million for unpaid debt going back many years. It is very unsatisfactory that this issue is allowed to happen. I am asking the Ministry, what are they doing about these problems? I am not referring specifically to Ulundi municipality alone but to the problem at large. What is being done to enable municipalities to get the resources due to them?
This leads to another concern. Although you have changed your focus, you now call yourselves Co-operative Governance, with an "all governance" focus. However, if you look at the work that has been done so far in the first year, it still seems to be "local government". You are talking about the other issues; you are talking about provinces and national, but I haven't seen anything yet.
I would like to ask this: When have we ever heard of an MEC being sanctioned or brought to Parliament or being dealt with by you in respect of budget overruns? When have we heard about possible section-100 interventions? We know there are provinces where this is pretty much due. The state of some of the provinces is not much worse than the municipalities...
There are two municipalities I would like to focus on. [Time expired.] We support the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Mnu J M MATSHOBA
Mnu P F SMITH
*** Language spoken has changed to IsiXhosa ***
Mr J M MATSHOBA: Sihlalo weNdlu yoWiso-Mthetho, Mphathiswa weSebe leNtsebenziswano neMicimbi yezeMveli ohloniphekileyo, Mnu Sicelo Shiceka, Sekela-Mphathiswa ohloniphekileyo, Yunus Carrim, Malungu eNdlu yoWiso-mthetho, maqabane nabahlobo, mna ndiza kugxininisa kwintatho-nxaxheba yabantu kunye nentsebenziswano neenkokheli zomthonyama.
Ukubandakanyeka koluntu kwinkqubo yentando yesininzi kuyintsika eqinisekisa ukuba intando yesininzi iyakhula kwaye ijonge iimfuno zabantu.
English:
This process is critically important in ensuring the legitimisation of government based on the will of the people. The basic tenets of public participation include, among other things, the involvement of the people in decision-making structures. It requires public consultation, accountability, accessibility and oversight over elected representatives and government generally. Failure to observe these fundamental principles inevitably leads to erosion of the public's confidence.
IsiXhosa
Imibutho elwela inkululeko ekhokelwa yi-ANC yalulwa ucalu-calulo lobuhlanga nolawulo lwegcuntswana lwabamhlophe.
English:
This fight for democracy was inspired by the Freedom Charter, adopted by the real congress of the people in 1955 in Kliptown.
IsiXhosa:
UMqulu weNkululeko uvula ngomqolo wokuqala othi: "Abantu bayakulawula."
English:
The people shall govern.
IsiXhosa:
Le nto ibonakalisa kuba abantu baya kuthabatha inxaxheba ngobomi babo.
Urhulumente okhokelawa yi-ANC wakhe iziseko zolawulo ezifana neekomiti zamacandelo kwakunye nabantu abangamakhonkco kwezophuhliso, iiCDWs, ezikhoyo emthethweni.
English:
It is important that organs of civil society, particularly nongovernmental and community-based organisations, and members of the community participate in local government structures. We must draw lessons from and redefine the ward committee system and close any gaps that may arise.
IsiXhosa:
Ukuchongwa kwalamalungu eekomiti zamacandelo kufunwa ukujongwa ngeliso elibanzi, ingakumbi aph' eNtshona Koloni.
English:
Allow me to reiterate the point, made in the ANC National Executive Committee Lekgotla of January 2010, that ordinary people and local communities must be empowered to play a leadership and developmental role at the local level. This approach encourages good citizenship.
IsiXhosa:
Kukho umkhuba ombi ekufuneka urhulumente awuqwalasele kakuhle. Le ngxaki inxulumene nemibutho yabahlali ebizwa nge "rate-payers association" koomasipala. Minimzi imizekelo yale mibutho eyenza imikhuba yokungazihlawuli iinkonzo abazinikwa ngumasipala, endaweni yoko bafake imali yabo kwiTrust Fund. Ngokwenza loo nto imibutho ingene nzulu kwezopolitiko. Umzekelo owaziwayo ngoweMbombela Rate-payers Association, eMpumalanga. Le mikhwa ayikho mthethweni.
Eyona nto ibifanele ukuba iyayenza kukucebisa nokukhuthaza amalungu ayo ukuba ahlawule iinkonzo zikamasipala.
Enye indawo efuna ukuqwalaselwa yindima yeenkokheli zomthonyama.
English:
We understand the historic role of the traditional authority in our struggle against colonialism and apartheid. Makana is one of the torch bearers. In fact, the traditional leaders played a critical role in the formation of the ANC in 1912. There were traditional leaders who led the ANC at a certain point, like iNkosi Albert Luthuli.
IsiXhosa:
Iinkokheli zomthonyama kweli lizwe zinendima ebalulekileyo, kwinkqubela nasekusekeleni oorhulumente basemakhaya. Kunemiceli mingeni phantsi komthetho u-Act 41 of 2003, wokusekwa kwalamabhunga obukhosi.
Ukuyilwa kwalamabhunga obukhosi kuneengxaki kuba aphela engayazi indima amakayidlale. Ukanti ke...
English:
...the functions of the traditional councils are spelt out clearly in Act 41 of 2003, Section 4(1). These functions were further clarified and strengthened by the passing of the two Bills into law last year.
The installation of the dignity of our traditional leaders is of paramount importance in the fourth Parliament.
IsiXhosa:
Kuyacaca ukuba ininzi imfundiso ekufuneka yenziwe kweziziseko.
English:
The Municipal Structures Act of 1998, section 81(3) further stipulates that:
Before a municipal council takes a decision on any matter directly affecting the area of a traditional authority, the council must give the leader of that authority the opportunity to express a view on that matter.
Traditional authorities are not alternatives or oppositions to the government of the day, but provide advice on behalf of their committees. The other imperative for traditional leadership at local level is to assist in the issues of moral regeneration and social cohesion.
IsiXhosa:
Umbutho wesizwe kufuneka ungayilibali into yokuba imoto emileyo izalela iinkukhu, ichanyelwe nazizinja; ehambayo ziyayileqa. Le nto ikhumbuze into eyakha yathethwa nguSteve Tshwete xa wayesithi: "Imvula inile, ingca iluhlaza, kukhonya noomofu." [Kwahlekwa.]
Singumbutho wesizwe, i-ANC, siyaluxhasa oluHlahlo-lwabiwo Mali. Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Mr P J GROENEWALD
Mnr J M MATSHOBA
Mr P J GROENEWALD: Chairperson, hon Minister, I want to quote what I said on 3 November 1998, from the Hansard of that date, column 7359. That was when the Municipal Structures Act was accepted and debated in Parliament. I said the following:
Afrikaans:
Ek wil vandag die voorspelling hier maak dat die amp van uitvoerende burgermeester sodanige gevolge gaan hê dat die betalers van dienste op plaaslike regeringsvlak 'n stadium gaan bereik dat hulle net minder en minder gaan betaal en dat die nie-betalers meer gaan word. Hoekom sê ek so? 'n Uitvoerendeburgermeester kan nou sy burgermeesterskomitee kom aanstel, en daardie komiteelede moet aan net een persoon dienstig wees, naamlik die uitvoerende burgermeester. Die dienstigheid is nie meer daarin geleë of hulle hul kiesers se belange op die hart dra en dit bevorder nie, want die uitvoerende burgermeester het die bevoegdheid en die mag om so 'n lid van sy burgermeesterskomitee eenvoudig aan te stel en te ontslaan na sy goeddunkeen soos en wanneer hy wil.
Dit het ek al in 1998 gesê. U Adjunkminister was die groot dryfveer agter die wet. U het niks nuuts kom sê nie. Wat u vandag hier kom sê het, is...
English:
...smoke and mirrors. What the Minister is saying now is what the ANC has been saying for the past 16 years. If the Minister's deputy checks Hansard, he will see that he is using the exact words that the Minister used today.
Afrikaans:
Hier is die kern van die probleem. Die mense betaal nie hul dienstegelde nie. Daar is al meer as R60 miljard uitstaande in agterstallige dienstegelde. Hoekom?
English:
I want to tell the hon Minister that that is why there are ratepayers associations.
Afrikaans:
Hulle hou hul geld terug, want hulle sê hoe goed die dienste is wat daar gelewer word hang af van die uitvoerende burgermeester se bestuur. Minister, as u 'n "turnaround strategy" daar wil stel, moet u ontslae raak van die stelsel van uitvoerende burgermeesters. U moet 'n burgermeester daar stel wat graag diens aan die gemeenskap wil lewer. Die probleem is nou dat jy 'n uitvoerende burgermeester kry wat niks weet van plaaslike regering nie. Dit is 'n politikus wat verkies word deur 'n bepaalde politieke party, maar van munisipale sake en die bestuur daarvan weet sodanige uitvoerende burgermeesters bittermin.
Daar behoort 'n opgeleide amptenaar te wees. Die burgermeesters misbruik hul magte, deurdat hulle hul mag afdwing op die amptenare om hul wil en wense uit te voer. Daar is sommige uitvoerende burgermeesters wat nie vir jou sal kan antwoord as jy vir hulle nou vra wat in die munisipaliteit aangaan nie. Sy belangrikste taak is om in die oggend in sy 4x4 Mercedes of sy 4x4 BMW te klim, na die kantoor te ry en te sê dat hy 'n groot kantoor het en 'n salaries het om te ontvang. U moet van hulle ontslae raak. Dankie.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mr P J GROENEWALD
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Temporary Chairperson, Minister, chairperson of the committee, MECs, public representatives here, the Amakhosi and everyone else, I agree with Mr Peter Smith. I'm deeply suspicious of this clock! I hope it Is working properly. Normally, the clock starts at the other end so that you know exactly how many seconds you have left. This doesn't help me as much, and I want to point out from the outset that I don't trust this clock. I hope you will be sympathetic when I speak.
I should say that we are at a threshold, Mr Groenewald, whether you believe it or not – and I will engage you outside this meeting and perhaps in a few words I'm going to offer now. It is mainly local government that is at a threshold, but also the co-operative government system as a whole. What we do in the period ahead, and how, will significantly determine the shape of our democracy for many years to come. That's what the Minister said earlier.
There is the Local Government Turnaround Strategy, LGTAS. We are soon – take note, Mr Smith - to take to Cabinet a Green Paper on Cooperative Governance. There is a policy review on the powers and functions of the three spheres of government under way. There are changes being proposed to our model of local government. There is a discussion brewing on the nature of our provincial system. We are not saying that provinces should go; we are saying the nature of the provincial system should be looked at. We don't know the outcome. There are questions about how all of this and more relate to the nature of the developmental state we seek to build. And more is pending.
Because of the gravity of the issues that are being addressed, we all need to be actively involved. We all need to have a say, and we all need to collectively move forward. Of course, we will not all agree. How can we? But if we all had a say and our views were considered, we can all take some measure of responsibility for the outcomes, whether we agree with them all or not.
As the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, we will create space for discussion and action. As Parliament, you can ensure, of course, that this process is consolidated, deepened and advanced. We are very encouraged by the support we've received so far on the LGTAS, as we call it, and we thank all of you who have played a role in implementing it so far. We have been flooded with offers of help to implement the LGTAS. Not since the adoption of the Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, by government in 1994 have we received such a huge public response. We are grateful for this response and we will hold you to account for your promises.
In a way the LGTAS has become the RDP of local government. We have learned our lessons from our initial 1994-96 RDP foray. We will not repeat them with the LGTAS. Of course, we're in the very early stages of the LGTAS. There's still a long way to go. There are many challenges, but if we work together on this, collectively, despite our differences, we will, over time, succeed. In any case, we have no choice. With local government, we sink or swim together.
A fundamental test of the success of our democracy is the extent to which local government works. The LGTAS must be seen for what it is: an overall, comprehensive response to strengthening and developing local government. It is not simply a response to local government failures. Not all municipalities are in distress. But all, from the weakest to the strongest municipalities, must do better.
The LGTAS is here to stay, as the Minister said. It's our overarching, long-term strategy with immediate, medium and long-term goals. Everything we do in local government must be located in the context of this overall strategy and judged in terms of it. Of course, there are the sceptics. "It's yet another turnaround strategy," they murmur. "And like others, it'll start with a big bang and then peter out to make way for yet another turnaround strategy, especially when the Minister moves on. What's different here?" people ask. Fine, those are all fair points.
As government, we're mainly responsible for this scepticism because of the many plans that have fizzled out. Besides, within limits, it's healthy in a democracy for people to constantly question a government. But in an emerging democracy like ours, you can't just question and sneer from the sidelines. You have to engage, become involved, act. You have to try to make things work, even if you don't altogether agree with everything. But then, as government, we must also convince you it's worth it.
So why is the LGTAS different? Why does it have greater potential for success than such previous attempts? Perhaps I should start by observing that the Minister happens to be very young - 43 years old. He's not going anywhere for a long time. While I say this, this is Africa and I should point out to the Minister that I am at least 20% older than he is. [Laughter.] This means he should defer to me. He should call me "Baba Deputy Minister", for a start. [Laughter.] But more importantly, even if I offer nonsensical views to him, he must say, "Yes, that's a very wise set of proposals, Baba Deputy Minister." [Laughter.] So I instruct this Parliament. You are an organ of people's power; we are in Africa; I'm an African. The Minister must be instructed to treat me with due respect. But I want to say that there are many reasons for the success of the LGTAS – I can site at least 14, if you gave me more time.
First, this LGTAS is based on the most comprehensive assessment of the state of municipalities since 1994, contained in the State of Local Government Report that we produced.
Second, this report – I'm explaining why it has enormous potential to work - is based on a hands-on, interactive assessment of municipalities undertaken between May and September last year, involving representatives of all three spheres of government.
Third, we discussed this report and a draft LGTAS with a wide range of stakeholders, including business, the Afrikaanse Handelsinstituut, labour experts, civil society and other organisations – many coming from the DA's constituency, mind you.
Fourth, for the first time since 1994, the President of the country met the mayors and municipal managers of municipalities throughout the country in October last year to convey his and the entire government's commitment to making local government work.
Fifth, for two days following this meeting of the President in Khayelitsha, we had a National Indaba on Local Government attended by over 1 100 delegates from the widest cross-section of our society who committed themselves to the Local Government Turnaround National Framework Strategy.
Sixth, we took this national framework strategy back, even after that indaba, to a wide range of stakeholders.
Seventh, unlike previous turnaround attempts, we secured endorsement for this strategy in all the structures of the ANC, the ANC National Executive Council, NEC - for what it's worth, it's the majority party. It went to the NEC, unlike previously. It went to the Central Committee of the Communist Party, would you believe it. It went even to the Special National Congress, which endorsed it. It went to the Central Executive Committee, CEC, of the Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu. It went to everybody. Many opposition parties too agree with this thing, no matter what they say here. Yes, the press...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (MR T S FARISANI): Hon members, order! I was impressed by the capacity of this side to listen to the other side. Let it be tit for tat and butter for fat to bring in equity. [Applause.]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you, Chairperson. Eighth, both the Cabinet and the President's Coordinating Council, PCC, fully endorsed the LGTAS.
Ninth, it will succeed because of the unprecedented co-operation of the national, provincial and local government in ensuring its implementation.
Tenth, the LGTAS is a much more politically driven process than previous attempts, with officials playing a much smaller role and consultants being excluded altogether.
Eleventh, very importantly, for the first time, we are fully acknowledging, as the Minister said, that we cannot have a one-size-fits-all approach to municipalities. Within the LGTAS national framework, municipalities are developing their own municipal-specific turnaround plans. The Minister has just said that 82% have done it.
Twelfth – if there is such a word - the municipal-specific turnaround plans are being inserted into the annual review of the Integrated Development Plans, IDPs, being done every year. These plans are based on the performance assessment of municipalities done last year and will provide a framework for the municipal budgets to come into effect on 1 July.
Thirteenth, municipalities have to get the support of stakeholders and residents for their draft turnaround plans between now and 1 July.
Fourteenth, the 2011 local government elections are looming and we are all, whichever party you come from, not least councillors and officials at local government level, under pressure to deliver. So, here is all this potential. Will we realise it? It depends on all of us, not just Cogta; not just local government... The theme of the turnaround is "Local Government is Everybody's Business". We have said the state alone cannot deliver. We all need to take responsibility in whatever way for the success of the LGTAS.
Most municipalities have done their specific turnaround plans. But we need to consider the quality of these plans. We need to improve them over time. We need to monitor their implementation. You, as Parliament, have a crucial role to play. Your visits to the municipalities are welcomed by the executive and our Ministry in particular. We need to monitor the implementation. But obviously we need to ensure that implementation takes place in a way that recognises the specific needs and conditions in each municipality. But implementation must take place.
We are clear: unless the LGTAS is collectively owned by the people, it will not succeed. We need to reach out to everybody, not least the leaders of the service delivery protests, and give them a stake in the LGTAS. We are essentially saying that this is a do-or-die turnaround strategy. It doesn't matter which party you come from, when you open your tap and the water is murky, or when you switch on the button, as the Minister said, and the light doesn't come on, whether you are Harry Oppenheimer or an unemployed vagrant, we all sink or swim at local government level. We can have our differences, but this turnaround strategy is here to stay.
I want to tell you, Mr Groenewald, I'm amazed. You must tell me how it's possible for me to prepare a speech in 1998 and anticipate what the Minister was going to say 10 years later. [Laughter.] Despite being Marxist and a historical materialist, I have never, ever understood that I had such foresight. [Laughter.] But let me tell you the differences between now and then. Then, Mr Groenewald, we were not talking about a Co-operative Governance White Paper; we were not so committed to ensuring that we deal with corruption; we were not then talking about many of the things the Minister talks about today. There was no such local government turnaround strategy. But comrades and friends, I want to say, in short, that LGTAS is here to stay. It's the only show in town. Take part in it. Make it a success in your own interest, your children's interest and your grandchildren's interest, including, you Mr Groenewald. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, the sphere of local government is charged with the fundamental responsibility to integrate a number of government programmes in order to change the lives of ordinary people. Due to enormous challenges facing local government, it becomes particularly important that municipalities have adequate capacity to render service to the poorest of the poor to ensure a better life for all.
Municipalities must have sufficient financial, administrative, technical and institutional capacity to develop and implement their integrated development plans. Local government, as the sphere of government closest to the people, is at the coal face of service delivery and is confronted by service-delivery protests. It must be said that some of the challenges are not purely within local government competency. In this context other spheres of government are bound by the Constitution to provide support and supervision to the municipalities to ensure delivery to the mandate of the people.
This support is provided in different ways, including, and more importantly, through capacity building and training of municipal officials and councillors. It is important to know that the government, over a number a years, has devoted funds to support capacity building and training together with training institutions such as the local government sector, and education and training authorities. There are also a number of training institutions, such as the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, formerly known as the SA Management Development Institute, Samdi; the Vulindlela Academy, run by the Department of Public Service Administration, and other private training providers directly involved in the training of municipal officials and councillors on an ongoing basis.
Notwithstanding this funding, there are persistent challenges. Systemic weaknesses and low capacity translate into poor responsiveness and structural ability to act as a responsive sphere of government. The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs administers a Municipal Systems Improvement Grant, MSIG, while National Treasury administers a Finance Management Grant, FMG. In the current year, a total of R577 million is allocated to these two capacity-building programmes, with 212 million to MSIG and R365 million to FMG. The ANC feels that it is important to applaud this financial commitment to address the capacity challenges.
However, there are other weaknesses that must be resolved. The persistent underspending of these grants shows that municipalities are sometimes unaware of what should be done with the funds, which is perhaps due to a lack of proper planning. The most disturbing feature of these grants, with specific reference to MSIG, is the lack of clearly defined objectives and targets. The other challenge is the inadequate co-ordination of capacity-building programmes. There is a serious need to streamline in order to eliminate suboptimal impact. In the absence of streamlined co-ordination structures, each programme tends to establish its own structure, which results in a duplication. Although their intentions are similar, various capacity programmes have different monitoring and evaluation arrangements and reporting requirements. This creates an administration burden for municipalities, which may have to complete several similar monthly quantitative and narrative reports to different donors.
A further challenge is that most programmes are not independently evaluated and linked and they are not evaluated against financial and nonfinancial objectives of municipal performance. Such criteria should be used in motivating for the continued existence of the programme and to stimulate an analysis of why some municipalities continue to experience distress.
It is worth noting that government and other partners have been engaged in a process of capacity building through various interventions, including Siyenza Manje, which deploys 97 experts as well as Project Consolidate, which deployed 281 experts to provide hands-on support to struggling municipalities.
Setswana:
Letona le le tlhololo, nna le wena re a itse gore puso ya ANC e dirile go le kanakang le gore ANC e fitlhetse puso ya selegae e le mo maemong afe. Mo pusong ya maloba, batho ba rona ba ne ba ka se ka ba ngongorega, ba ikuela kgotsa ba dira ditshupetso ka ntlha ya gore ba ne ba ka iphitlhela ba latlhetswe mo ntlong lefitshwana. ANC e rutile batho ba rona ka ga ditshwanelo tsa setho. Batho ba itse seo se ba tshwanetseng. Se re tshwanetseng go se dira ke gore re gatele pele re ba rute ka maikarabelo a a lolameng.
English:
National Treasury provides training accredited the by SA Qualifications Authority for officials and councillors. However, there is great concern and complaints that some councillors do not attend such initiatives and some do not complete courses. This must be addressed to ensure that maximum benefit is accrued from the training to the municipality and public at large.
I'm happy as I stand here, because the hon Doman did not forget my slogan, "Together we can do more". At the end of the day, irrespective of how you'd like to twist it, that phrase is a fact. Together we can do more. [Applause.]
What I can tell is the difference between the ANC and the DA, in particular. The ANC always acknowledges where it should improve. The DA thinks they are angels and need not improve. That is a serious problem because... [Time expired.] The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Mr S N SWART
Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, hon Minister, last year, in a frank assessment, you highlighted severe challenges facing local government. To a large degree, government is still faced with that litany of problems, ranging from governance, financial matters, lack of skills and service delivery problems. The ACDP supports the local government's turnaround strategy, which is an attempt to address these shortcomings and, Minister, your political will in this regard. We really trust that you will succeed.
However, this strategy follows closely on the heels of Project Consolidate, which addressed certain deficiencies but failed in certain respects to place local government on a sound footing. The question is, why. A major issue is the lack of performance excellence and accountability, with many public servants adopting a cavalier attitude. We thus welcome proposed steps to ensure that municipalities employ only skilled people and are therefore enabled to speed up disciplinary action. We also welcome the commendable decision that party office bearers should not be municipal managers. This is a good start towards ensuring stable and competent leadership at municipalities.
Most municipalities are facing severe financial challenges, resulting in qualified audits and disclaimers. While we as the ACDP support Operation Clean Audit, how can the department require that all municipalities and provincial governments must achieve clean audits by 2014 when the department itself received a qualified audit last year? That clearly is an issue we need to look at.
Why is it that service delivery problems and protests persist, notwithstanding that transfers have increased consistently over the past years? One of the reasons is clearly that the basic needs of citizens are not addressed and that is a challenge. While it is regrettable, it is no wonder that poor communities display impatience with government in violent service delivery protests over potholes, poor sanitation, housing and unemployment. There is clearly a pressing need to promote clean government. Thank you. [Applause.] [Time expired.]
Ms M N MATLADI
Mr S N SWART
Ms M N MATLADI: Chairperson, the department's mission is to develop appropriate policies and legislation to promote integration in government's development programmes and service delivery; to provide strategic interventions and support interventions... It sounds impressive, but it is the same old rhetoric. The poor performance by provincial and local government has not been due to lack of policies but rather to lack of implementation and measuring tools.
The 2008/9 annual report records a number of incidences where irregular expenditure had been incurred, where officials did not comply with the procurement policies and many other irregularities. All these do not point to an absence of policies but rather an apparent neglect in implementing such policies. How will the department ensure that we don't continue to see this happening?
The annual report also records underspending on urban and rural development and we think that this is a disgrace. We have seen riots over service delivery in various parts of our country which threatens to destabilise the country, yet we can still underspend. How can that be? This is an inexcusable phenomenon that has been going on for a while. The UCDP thinks the department should table a plan that will ensure that this does not continue to happen.
The department set a target in its plans that 85% of indigent households would receive free basic water by 31 March 2009. They claim in the report that this has been partially achieved, with 75% of households receiving basic water. We applaud this achievement but in future we would like the department to produce a list to back up their report.
It is also a grave disappointment that the Auditor-General could not find supporting documents to determine the existence of capital assets with a value that exceeded R4 million. It is unacceptable that many municipalities have not complied with the Division of Revenue Act. This has a great impact on service delivery.
Also to be addressed are the corrupt practices in awarding tenders in the local government sphere. Service delivery has been greatly impaired by officials with an obvious conflict of interest tendering and awarding themselves tenders. Officials need to desist from this corrupt practice and Parliament must exercise a hawk-like oversight over them. There are so many irregularities that need to be addressed for this department to operate at optimal level. The UCDP supports the Budget Vote. [Time Expired.]
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: The clock that we have here indicates that my colleague still has time left, so there is a problem between the two clocks that we are running. I'm asking you to address that. Thank you.
TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (MR T S FARISANI): The clock down there and the clock at the Chair do not have the same height and authority here. [Laughter.]
Mr A J WILLIAMS
Ms M N MATLADI
Mr A J WILLIAMS: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, friends and guests, exactly one year ago the South African people chose through the ballot system to elect this fourth Parliament. Hon members, this means we have completed 20% of our time here in Parliament.
During this, the first 20% of our term of office, there has been numerous service delivery protests. These protests have taken many forms, both violent and peaceful. There have been petitions, legal peaceful marches and legal protests turning violent. There have even been umlungu ratepayerboycotts. Some of these protests have been orchestrated by the very political parties that sit in this House. The ratepayer boycotts are more harmful by far to the future of service delivery than the demonstrations that take place on the streets.
It is important for this House to note that when, in a democratic country, the political parties that have won seats in Parliament promote ratepayer boycotts, they are in fact bringing themselves as members of this fourth Parliament into disrepute. This fourth Parliament - of which we are all members and, as such, a collective - acknowledges that there are service-delivery problems. These problems are widespread and occur in all nine provinces, even here in the city of Cape Town. It is now becoming clear that it's not only provinces and towns controlled by the ruling party that are experiencing service delivery problems, but also the province and towns lead by the opposition.
Here in the city of Cape Town the backlog in service delivery is so extensive that it is going to be very difficult for the DA and its council to eliminate them. The City of Cape Town has resorted to cutting water to areas of Mitchells Plain, resulting in Muslim residents not being able to perform their ritual washings before prayers. This city has even attempted to give half-baked services in the form of toilets with no walls or roofs, hoping that the poor residents will install the walls and roofs themselves.
Recently I witnessed the destruction of churches and mosques by the City of Cape Town. I was reminded of those old black-and-white movies taken in the 1930s, when the National Socialists destroyed places of worship. Seriously, what future is the DA trying to build by allowing the destruction of churches and places of worship today? These examples of misguided attempts to deliver services clearly illustrate a lack of community participation. The fourth Parliament only exists so that "the people shall govern". This clear lack of community participation is widespread, it affects every one of us where we live, and some of us have resorted to service-delivery protests to highlight our concerns.
Structures where communities can participate within government exist on the ground. These structures include community policing forums, where members of the community can engage with the South African Police Service around matters pertaining to crime in the areas where they live; school governing bodies, where parents can have a direct influence on the schools that their children attend; hospital and clinic management communities, where concerned residents can raise their issues around the health-care facilities and services in their localities; ward committees, where residents of a particular ward can engage the local authority through their ward councillor on issues around local government service delivery; and many outreach programmes and government imbizos, where South Africans can raise their issues.
These are the government's initiatives around community participation. There are other initiatives taken by political parties in South Africa, like general meetings at ward levels, where everyone living in that ward can raise issues around service delivery. In this democracy the political active among us can feel free to use our political structures to raise issues that affect our everyday lives. The South African population have the responsibility to themselves to get informed, to get involved, and to get active in the running of this government. The ANC firmly believes in the principle that the people shall govern.
Chairperson, as I mentioned earlier, there have been many service delivery protests, based mainly on the lack of service delivery on the ground in all nine provinces. However, there is a light at the end of this dark tunnel in the form of the Local Government Turnaround Strategy. Vast consultation processes took place, resulting in the formulation of this strategy. This turnaround strategy is a turnaround strategy, not a plan to supply a ceramic bowl and a flushing system and hope that the poorest of the poor will have some spare money or building material lying around so that they can secure their personal privacy in outside toilets. In this year's January 8 statement, the ANC said:
We must build a state that is democratic, people-driven and people-centred. We must pursue a sustained development based on an inclusive growth path. It should be a state that unites South Africans around a vision of sustainable development and mobilises them to act as midwives to the birth of a truly united, nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous society.
This turnaround strategy is focused on achieving three objectives, namely to ensure improved and accelerated delivery of basic services to the people; to ensure that municipalities are self-reliant and meet their constitutional obligations; and to ensure that our people are meaningfully engaged on issues that affect them. As the fourth Parliament we have spent the first 20% of our term in office identifying the bottlenecks within service delivery. We have learnt that service delivery can be slowed by infrequent maintenance, ill-advised contract and project management and, in some cases, corruption.
The days of the corrupt are over. This government will seek out, expose and prosecute those individuals who misuse government resources for their own gain and attempt to undermine the ANC's principle of a better life for all. We will ensure that there are consequences for incompetence, corruption and a lack of accountability. Tomorrow we will start the next 20% of our term of office, and we are starting from an informed position. We know what we are dealing with. We have a strategy to correct and enhance the service-delivery machinery. This Parliament is a collective. All the political parties sitting here are accountable to the South African people. And with the people, together we can do more. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr Z M D MANDELA
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S FARISANI) Is the hon Swart still here? Mr Swart, I withdraw my ruling. We have denied you the use of 40 seconds and now we shall invite you to exhaust that.
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, I'm deeply indebted to you and I'd like to use my 40 seconds to say that the ACDP accepts that we will sink and swim together and we are committed to that. But could I suggest that when we sing from the same hymn sheet, as the Minister says we should, we sing for those in peril in the sea. Thank you very much.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Hon members, we work as a collective. We check, but we make mistakes and the reading of the watch there can become a little difficult. Thank you very much. The hon Bhoola is absent.
Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, we are a bit surprised that a Chair has actually admitted that he makes mistakes sometimes, so we don't quite know how to take it. I wonder if you could repeat it because it was a very important moment. [Laughter.] Would you repeat that, Sir?
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon members, I must hear the hon member if I am to make a ruling. Hon member, what did you say?
Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, I simply said it is the most incredible thing to hear in this House a Chair acknowledging that you make mistakes. We would like you to repeat it, Sir, because we don't actually think we heard correctly. [Laughter.]
Mr N M DUMA: Chairperson, to err is human.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Thank you...
Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, we're not used to Chairs being human. That's the difference.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: That's not a point of order. I'm under no illusion that I'm God. I'm a human being and human beings are fallible. Only God is infallible. I admit I've made a mistake.
Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, I just want to say, Sir, that's the best news we've heard yet, I promise you.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: We shall proceed.
Ms M N MATLADI: Chairperson, I need to say, just as it was an advantage for...
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Is this a point of order?
Ms N M MATLADI: Yes. The same mistake that happened to the hon Swart, according to your clock, happened to me. Nevertheless, I will sit down.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. I've not been advised by the Table that you suffered the same fate. Thank you very much. The hon Mandela is the next speaker. [Applause.]
Mr Z M D MANDELA
Mr Z M D MANDELA: Chairperson, Hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, ladies and gentlemen in the gallery,...
IsiXhosa:
... neenkosi ezikhoyo phantsi kwalo mnquba endisisicaka sazo. Minister [Mphathiswa] xa ubuthetha ngesiko lokuthwala bendirhala ukuba ukhe uze phaya kuMvezo ngokuba singabaThembu phaya sisaphonononga ukuba intombi kaTrollip okanye kamam' uZille singayithwala njani ukuze ibe ngunkosikazi wesine waphaya ekhaya? [Kwahlekwa.]
English:
Chapter 12 of the South African Constitution specifically acknowledges the institution of traditional leadership and its place and role in the system of democratic governance. It provides for the continued authority and functioning of such leaders in accordance with traditional law within the broader legal framework and for iinkosi [traditional leaders] to participate at local government level.
Traditional leaders are enjoined by our Constitution to play an active role in the betterment of our people as custodians and guardians of our culture, traditions and customs. We have a duty to preserve these cultures and slow down the cultural erosion that is rampant in our country. As guardians of culture, we have a responsibility to correct the common misinterpretations and distortions of our cultures, customs and traditions. We need to do this in our governance systems, which are part of our legislative processes and implementation of the country's educational system.
During the opening of the national house of traditional leaders in February, ubaw' uMongameli Zuma [President Zuma] reminded us that even in rural areas millions of people now have access to basic services such as water, electricity, roads, houses, clinics and schools, which they never had before. It is equally true that our own communities in rural areas are still bedevilled by massive underdevelopment, evidenced through poor road infrastructure, lack of basic services like running water, primary health care, sanitation, electricity and quality education.
Social ills such as teenage pregnancy and HIV/Aids pandemic are rife and are compounded by high levels of unemployment and joblessness. As the President put it, and I quote:
We still have a long road to travel before we can say we have bridged the gap between rich and poor, urban and rural, white and black, and men and women in our society. We also have a long way to go before we can say we are creating scores of decent, sustainable jobs for our people.
Hon Minister, our turnaround strategy seeks to reduce and eradicate these challenges. The current ANC-led government has identified rural development as a priority for the coming five years. The government has made an undertaking to see the extension of services in the rural areas, such as water, sanitation, quality health and education facilities, and increased access to rural communities for more income-generating activities.
The President also indicated that R860 million would be used this year for the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme. He also announced a new grant to support on-site water sanitation infrastructure as part of the rural housing programme. An initial R1,2 billion over three years has been made available for this purpose.
In March, the hon Minister Shiceka launched the first House of Traditional Leaders in the Eastern Cape. This was a historic event and certainly proves that the ANC-led government takes the role and status of traditional leaders very seriously. [Applause.] It was a positive step that will enhance the capacity of iinkosi [traditional leaders] to enable them to play their role effectively. We await in anticipation the opening of similar houses in all other provinces.
We are also grateful as traditional leaders that the ANC-led government is now implementing the establishment of a Department of Traditional Affairs that will talk to the preservation of our traditions and cultures. Historically, traditional leadership has always been central to the governance of their communities. Even during the colonial and apartheid period, they continued to play this role, although the system of traditional leaders was open to abuse by those in power. It was always an accepted reality that no government can effectively rule in rural areas without the co-operation of iinkosi [traditional leaders]. This reality led to a situation where many traditional leaders who resisted oppressive governments were deposed and replaced with illegitimate ones. We patiently await the Nhlapo Commission report that will give guidance on how these wrongs of the past are going to be put right.
Today, more than 15 million people in this country reside in rural areas and many other black people in urban settings still pledge some form of allegiance to one or other traditional leader. Iinkosi [Traditional leaders] therefore have a duty to work closely in partnership with government to ensure that our communities are developed and that the standard of living in rural areas is the same as that of the rest of the country. Service delivery in rural areas is a shared responsibility of municipalities and traditional councils who are both called upon by legislative imperatives to work together in the spirit of co-operative governance to ensure the acceleration of service delivery to these rural areas. It is the responsibility of traditional leaders to work together with government and, where possible, to mobilise private sector resources to help deal with some of these identifiable challenges.
Traditional leaders have a duty to work with business and nongovernmental organisations to initiate projects that can help alleviate the many challenges we face. They have the key responsibility to ensure a peaceful, harmonious life for all people and also to lead the moral regeneration of our people, especially our youth, using our cultural values to enhance such attributes as respect for adults and all other attributes that promote the spirit of ubuntu within us as a people.
Traditional leaders can only play a meaningful role if they are allowed the space to do so by the government in power, their own institutions and their communities. It is therefore critical for government and institutions of traditional leadership to continually educate traditional leaders on their role, especially that of co-operative governance. It is important that all traditional leaders...
IsiXhosa:
SIHLALO WENDLU (Nksk M N Oliphant): Mhlonitshwa Nkosi Mandela ngeshwa nawe kufanele ngikunqamule, isikhathi sakho sesiphelile.
Mnu Z M D MANDELA: Ndivumele ndithi nam mandigxwale emswaneni ndithi i-ANC iyaluxhasa olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali.
Ms M WENGER
Mr Z M D MANDELA
Ms M WENGER: Madam Chair, hon Minister and Deputy Minister...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon member, can you please use the other microphone? It seems that one is...
Ms M WENGER: May I start now? Thank you. Madam Chair, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, as the song goes, "another year older and deeper in debt". This is probably the only way the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs can describe the state of municipalities today.
The largest portion of the departmental expenditure is on equitable share and the Municipal Infrastructural Grant, MIG. In spite of the annual increase of 14,3 % to R36.7 billion in the 2009/10 financial year, the effects of such expenditure is yet to be really felt.
Many MIG projects have failed due to the lack of monitoring and evaluation. Contractors were paid even though the job had not been completed. While it looks good in financial statements that the municipalities have spent the R9.4 billion allocated them on the MIG funding, it is more important to find out how it was spent and what the outcomes were.
There are an alarming number of municipalities under administration currently, where the Minister had to step in because officials could not perform even basic functions. Minister, where are the district municipalities, which receive substantial funding, in this equation? The district municipalities are supposed to provide capacity, assistance and oversight to municipalities. They ought to be working hard, but instead have done very little to assist the municipalities. The Minister had to step in and get involved. Some of the district municipalities have become nothing short of employment agencies for their officials, because they spend up to 70% of their budget on salaries.
On a recent oversight visit to Mpumalanga, we found provincial roads littered with potholes, endangering our lives. Many a time it was safer to drive on the shoulder of a road than it was on the road itself. In a beautiful province where we try to attract tourists, especially for the FIFA World Cup, it is a crying shame. Has anyone accounted for this?
Let's look at Mkhondo municipality, where the administrator informed us that there is complete institutional failure and very little capacity. There are two camps: that of the Mayor and that of the Speaker. Here, contractors were appointed and paid, but all one finds is unfinished roads and dug-up trenches. People cannot get out of their homes. The roads, especially the gravel ones, are filled with refuse so they cannot commute on them. Is this what MIG is meant for, Minister?
The project manager appointed to oversee this project has since left because of disciplinary action that was going to be instituted against him. Guess what happened? The same individual was appointed in the position of project manager at another municipality. Can they afford this kind of blatant mismanagement? Can they honestly say that cadre deployment works? I think not.
This trend continues in most municipalities. Service delivery is at crisis level. As soon as the problems surface, the responsible official resigns in order to avoid disciplinary action. They are then taken up at another unsuspecting municipality where they continue their trail of destruction and corruption.
Operation Clean Audit 2014 was launched in July 2009 in order to assist municipalities to achieve clean audits. Minister, it is not only municipalities that need to do so but also national and provincial departments - starting with the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs.
The Minister's own department has to reverse its qualified audit and become an example of how things should be done before the big stick is waved at others. The Minister's own staff must become accountable and face the music for their shortcomings, especially considering that the department had a clean audit before.
Service delivery protests have rocked the country in the last year. Protests were also violent and destructive. Once again, South Africans and rate payers have been failed. The sad part is the protests could have been avoided in many instances. After all, most of them were caused by the lack of housing and infrastructure.
Lack of housing, a provincial competency, is sadly used against councillors. It's councillors' houses that are being vandalised and burnt, but I have yet to see a provincial or national department coming to their rescue.
Housing should be with the locals, with the necessary budget and accreditation attached to it for transparency and accountability. Let the waiting list be displayed publicly at municipal offices, so that beneficiaries can see where they are on the list and don't have to pay bribes in order to get their homes.
Infrastructure costs are huge and this is where most of the mismanagement of funds and corruption is taking place. Corruption needs to be eradicated and we must stop at nothing to achieve this. The department must establish a register of black-listed operators and contractors.
Minister, I am sure you will agree that the Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Commission, CRL, does not belong in this cluster but rather with the Arts and Culture portfolio. We have made such requests in the past but to no avail.
The mandate of the South African Local Government Association, SALGA, is to be the voice of local government. They are also meant to support, represent and advise member municipalities. The latest wage negotiations have crippled service delivery in our towns and cannot be left unchallenged. Where are the rights of the rate payers, who have paid for services that they are not receiving?
How realistic are union demands for two years' back pay? Have the municipal budget been considered? Most municipalities have already exceeded 30% of their budgets on salaries and wages and the latest demands will result in job losses and non-filling of vacant posts due to financial constraints.
Why do unions not reprimand their members and control them, instead of allowing them to trash the streets? What about vandalism and damage to property? Year after year we hear that action will be taken against unruly strikers but the picture does not change. In the past the DA submitted a Private Member's Bill which proposed making unions accountable for damage caused by its members during strike action. However, the proposal was ignored.
By the end of March 2009, 94% of the mandatory grant income -R129.8 million - was disbursed by the Local Government Sector Education and Training Authority, LGSETA. This is commendable. However, more than 50% of this grant was not used for training purposes by the municipalities as required. There has been no accountability with regards to grant spending. Surely, LGSETA has the responsibility to monitor and report such dubious practises. While the SETA enjoys an unqualified report, the fund intended for training has been misspent by the municipalities.
The outstanding debt owed to municipalities by the province and national government amounts to R2.4 billion as of October 2009. This is crippling the cash flow and a day-to-day running of municipalities and directly impacts on service delivery. Ministers must be personally accountable for such malpractices and instructed to settle such debt immediately. If these departments were individuals, they would have been black-listed already and would not qualify for any further financing. Let us learn from best practice, Minister. After all, we have two on our doorstep: the City of Cape Town and the Western Cape.
Hon S L Tsenoli
Ms M WENGER
Mr S L TSENOLI: Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister, colleagues, ladies and gentlemen, and comrades, let's start by expressing on behalf of our committee our appreciation and thanks to the now new director-general, Elroy Africa, and his team of officials for their co-operation and support to the committee during its oversight interaction with the department. [Applause.] Welcome, sir. We hope you will continue the tradition of co-operation, as your predecessor did.
We equally express appreciation to the leadership of the South African Local Government Association, Salga, and the Local Government Sector Education Training Authority. Even though they report to the Department of Labour, they worked with us to let us understand what they were doing in the area of municipalities. I would like to express our appreciation to the outgoing chief executive officer and to the new team that is coming in to take over their work. To the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, CRL Commission, and the National House of Traditional Leaders, thank you for working with us in seeking a better life for the communities that we are meant to serve.
This Budget Vote takes place on World Earth Day, a day dedicated to re-energising the campaign to save or, as others would say, to prolong the life of our planet by adopting, individually, organisationally and institutionally, environmentally sustainable practices. This department, working together with its sister departments at the provincial and local level, has a critical role to provide robust leadership in this area. Our Polokwane resolutions on climate change epitomise the call to action that we must heed today and every day. Naturally, we expect the turnaround strategy that you spoke about earlier, Minister, to have this "green campaign" central to its agenda.
Minister, we will support the Budget Vote this year, because we realise the transition from third to fourth administration has been hectic. You spoke about disorientation and reorientating yourself. However, we wish to emphasise the necessity to urgently address the organisation and management of the department so that we return its financial management to clean audits, as judged by the Auditor-General, to position its personnel to exhibit better morale, and to work with its counterparts in the provinces and at municipal level collaboratively and co-operatively. The leadership and members of provincial executive councils and Salga across the board, and across the country, must feel that their voice, their presence and their views always receive respect and broad support from you and your team of officials.
The ANC also wishes to appeal to you, sir, to mediate, promptly and speedily, to resolve KwaZulu-Natal's noninvolvement with Salga, which we do not understand. It causes problems with the Auditor-General's work. So, we urge you to work with that issue urgently. Good health in your department and Salga will enable both of you, supported by your colleagues in Cabinet and ourselves in Parliament, to repair our damaged relationship with some of the communities around the country.
Our collective pressure will also stem the tide of corruption that threatens the national democratic revolution itself. We should be unwavering in conveying to the corrupt that they must not expect us to be quiet about their completely unacceptable behaviour. Reverend Jesse Jackson, who is visiting us in this period, is correct when he calls it antirevolutionary behaviour, but we draw our courage on this matter from the spirit of Oliver Tambo, Chris Hani and Solomon Mahlangu, who we remember this month. April is Oliver Tambo month, it is Chris Hani month, and it is Solomon Mahlangu month. That is courage – they died fighting to free our country of corruption, among others.
It was announced this week on radio that the BBC World Service conducted a worldwide survey about what people thought was the most pressing problem that faces humanity, and the overwhelming majority said poverty. So, Minister, we reject corruption because it significantly hampers our fight against poverty and inequality. It is this campaign against poverty and inequality that must inform the turnaround strategy.
We also cannot continue with a system that reproduces poverty and inequality instead of eradicating it completely. We must search for alternatives that will work. It is for this reason that the reported decline in employment by municipalities is unacceptable. This is reported in Treasury's local government review. We cannot have a situation where, when we demand that there should be more jobs, there is a reported decline in employment practices. Decent employment, including labour-intensive work programmes, must be the orientation of all municipal programmes.
The challenge we face at the local level is to support vigorously those who act against corruption, expose it and help build the credibility of this campaign. Those who killed Jimmy Mohlala must not be allowed to get away with it. They must feel the pressure of the entire movement, and the police must be assisted to convict the guilty. The ANC has repeatedly, through its president and its general leadership, expressed a number of initiatives intended to heal our own organisation and, among others, to free it of corruption and build its professional competency in government. So, we need the department itself to develop capacity to prevent conflict from being toxic and affecting government negatively. If we succeed in this area, especially coupled with effective almost prompt response to communities, to municipalities and to provinces, we will succeed, at least, to reduce this problematic area.
Let us also talk about the internal organisation of these municipalities. In particular, the necessity for computerisation is crucial, and the convenience of information exchange management cannot be overemphasised. Record keeping, document tracking, monitoring and evaluation occur best when technology is used effectively. You, sir, working with the State Information Technology Agency, must support, cajole and encourage municipalities to go this route. The Auditor-General's major function, or rather major complaint, among other things, is this inability to locate and track documentation, if they find the officials to account for their work. So, in the 21st century technology is really not an option to consider. It is the only way to go.
This will minimise the conflict that we see in the speed of communication across the spheres, but also with communities themselves. Conflict itself is not bad, and protests themselves are a key part of our democratic governance. People must be able to protest if things don't go the way they wish. It is when they become violent, when they become toxic, that we ourselves must protest and remind those involved of their co-responsibility.
Minister, culture is dynamic. You've reverted to some practices about which there will be policy documents, you say. There is going to be robust debate when they are tabled. We would like to see those, but the most important part that I want to talk about is the indigenous knowledge system, especially. We've had disasters here in the past. People survived those disasters because they learned, living harmoniously in and with nature, to be able to avoid being swamped by nature. So, we must effectively draw from those skills. Some of the people who survived the tsunami in Phuket did so because elephants that speak and listen with their feet knew the tsunami was coming. People followed them to higher ground, and that is how they survived. Indigenous knowledge is critical. We must reverse the rubbishing of our people's knowledge and appreciate their experience in the conduct of government affairs. [Applause.]
Afrikaans:
Meneer, ons gaan apartheid nooit vergeet nie. [Sir, we are never going to forget apartheid.]
English:
You can trust us on that one, sir. If you don't, we...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order, please!
Mr S L TSENOLI: It is also ahistorical. How do you do a decent analysis without referring to the past? The effects of apartheid remain with us. The levels of poverty, they are there. Who the hell do we have to blame that on?
Mr P J GROENEWALD: Don't keep blaming it!
Mr S L TSENOLI: How often must we do it?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order, hon members!
Mr P J GROENEWALD: It seems to... [Inaudible.]
Mr S L TSENOLI: You see, the DA... Let me just move on. The DA is unable to handle honesty. You can't deal with honesty. Hon Doman, it pains me when you are unable to work with us co-operatively on corruption. This is one item where there is an agreement across parties and in the whole of society to work together. Yet you choose to rubbish it, in a way that paints you, unfortunately, as politically expedient, instead of seeing an opportunity to co-operate with the ruling party, sir, to root out an evil in society that we can't afford. It would be better if, in our communication, we could handle honesty properly and in a friendly way.
This is why I thank Peter Smith for his appreciation of the Minister's frank openness - both the Minister and Deputy Minister - in dealing with this, which is incidentally the character and feature of the fourth administration, and the ANC generally, going forward. We would like to collaborate with you all on matters like those. You've had problems too with lawyers who have been appointed and then found fiddling with resources, money, and so on. These are your own members. [Interjections.] Corruption is bad for everybody, sir.
An HON MEMBER: But what can you do about Parliament?
Mr S L TSENOLI: We act. The police arrests people. People are pursued. You read that in newspapers, but you don't talk about them here. I want to agree with Peter Smith's complaint about the growing debt, not only from government or the Ministry. We raise this matter so that it will ease the burden on municipalities if the Department of Public Works, who we'll be meeting soon, both nationally and provincially, act expeditiously to determine, in co-operation with municipalities, what they owe and pay it, on time, regularly, every time.
We also say the same thing of people, especially in business and in the private sector, who we know – we have heard reports – deliberately delay payment, because they generate a lot of resources from nonpayment. We expect them to sort out what they owe municipalities. It is crucial that they do so. One last appeal... [Time expired.] We will support the Budget Vote. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, Chairperson. I would like to thank all members for engaging in this debate and say that they showed a lot of insight. What I can say is that we will actually look at Hansard and respond to the issues raised in this debate. I think you've spent a lot of time preparing, looking at matters, and these must be taken seriously and attended to by the department, so that next year we don't plough the same ground and repeat the same issues. We must be able to be responsive and attend to matters.
Therefore I am saying that I will not be able to respond to everything raised but I want to highlight some of the issues. One of the most important things is that the leadership of the DA, Cope and the IFP could not raise any issue of substance against what we are doing. What we had is a situation where Mr Doman had to be supervised by Mr Athol Trollip, as a leader of the party, as to whether he speaks the language of the master. Not only that, with Cope you had Ms Kilian come to supervise Mr Botha and ascertain whether he's speaking the language of the master in this debate. Also, in the IFP, you see Mr Smith is supervised by Mr Oriani-Ambrosini. [Laughter.] Now, we have a situation where the relationship between members of the committee and the department is so good that people feared that if you left them, they would not say and speak the master's voice. That is why they had to be supervised.
Having said that, let's look at what is raised by hon Doman. He raises the issue of power struggles and instability. The most unstable municipalities in South Africa are in the Western Cape, because we have municipalities where they change partners like nobody's business. [Interjections.] They enter into partnership all the time. This is the Western Cape – you don't have that phenomenon anywhere else in the country. Even in KwaZulu-Natal, things have changed.
Where are the problems of political leadership? Are they in other municipalities or in Western Cape? They are here. The issue of Bitou municipality was also raised. The DA, as a party, has double standards. They always say "no interference between the spheres of government" but because Bitou municipality is under the ANC leadership in the province of the Western Cape, they want to dictate to it on how it utilises its personnel and its resources.
The Constitution says the appointment of officials at local government level is the duty of the council of the municipality. Don't interfere. It's not your business, because the agreement is entered into between the municipality and national government, to ensure that we support other municipalities where there is a need. To us there is nothing wrong with that, unless you want a situation where there is no development of other areas. You are an island of excellence surrounded by a sea of problems. Now, we are saying that you shouldn't be able to say this.
The other matter that has been raised refers to why I always say "let's not politicise local government; let's focus on the issues". Let's look at what is happening in the DA, in what it claims is the best-run municipality. When we were building the stadiums for 2010, in Soweto, Orlando Stadium, they spent R280 million on the 40 000-capacity stadium. The Cape Town Metro spent over R4 billion on the 70 000-capacity stadium. The variation on the tender was over 60%. What does it tell you? It means that for 60% of the cost they didn't know what they were going to do exactly. That's what it means. The municipality of the DA, go and check the facts. [Interjections.]
If you look at all the stadiums, Western Cape was the most expensive stadium with a 70 000 capacity. Durban has a cheaper 70 000-seat stadium than the one in the Western Cape. Now, where is value for money when you don't know what is going to be done with 60% of the tender? You can't give specifications. Not only that, go and check the way they misled the public on the Bus Rapid Transit system, BRT. Billions have been "understated". Go and investigate and check that. Not only that, there is also the issue of them building toilets without covering them. What do you call that, if you are saying you are the best-run municipality? There are many other things that you can raise about the DA. That is why we say, don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. Let's not politicise these matters. Let's focus on the issues. [Applause.]
I can go on and on but I hope next time around we will focus on the issues. What we are saying as the ANC-led government is that problems are everywhere, and they are not based on parties. If you look at the Cape Town municipality, they have cleansed blacks from their ranks. The last blacks were removed - 130 managers were cleanse - and they are appointing whites instead, and not only that level. In the Western Cape provincial government, they have cleansed coloureds and Africans. They are placing whites as heads of department in this province.
Now, I am saying, don't politicise the issues of government; let's focus on the issue and accept it. I am still waiting. [Interjections.] No, you must listen because we listened to you and never interrupted. I am still waiting for a situation where the DA, as a party, admits its mistakes and deals with them. They have never done that. They are so defensive in the way they handle government matters. For us to be able to reach each other, to be able to take this country to another level, we must be honest, candid and able to attend to the issues and so ensure that we change the face of government. [Applause.] I don't want to elaborate further, but I am saying let's work together. We are extending a hand of friendship from this side of the House.
The other matter is the issue of co-ordination that has been raised by, among others, the hon Botha. It is an issue that we are addressing and attending to. If you look at the Ten Point Plan, we are talking about a window for co-ordination, so that we don't put the burden and stress on local government.
At the same time, Mr Smith raised the issues of extending the time. Yes, we are a responsive department. If we see things becoming unrealistic because of objective and subjective conditions, we must change them. But I can assure you, we are on course, because our deadline is to ensure that the budgets that are implemented by July are based on these plans. Therefore, there's no reason to worry; we are moving forward. But equally, we believe that from our side things are on course, and we will never fail our people and never betray their trust.
We want to thank the leadership of the committee under the hon Comrade Lechesa Tsenoli for their robust engagement and also their friendship, because outside this theatre, you are so nice, all of you. You are nice people, but when you act here in the House, you become something else. [Laughter.] We also want to thank the officials in the department for their hard work and working with provinces and municipalities in the development of a turnaround strategy. We thank the members who are here, who came and sat up this late to listen to this discussion. We can assure you that South Africa is going to change. It is heading for improvement. There is no doubt in our minds, and we believe that working together with you, things will be better and faster, as we go forward.
We would also like to thank the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs team, the MECs who are always with us and willing to work, Salga and all other formations that we work with. Continue with the good work. You must make South Africa proud because local government is the most important sphere of government in South Africa. We also want to thank the friends of the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs who are present and say that we are happy to invite you to join us for the gala dinner tonight. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hlalani phansi malunga ahloniphekile, angikasho ukuthi siqedile, asikaqedi.
English:
Hon members, as the Minister has said, there will be a gala dinner at 19:00. It's at the 15 on Orange Hotel. I was informed that it's about a four- to five-minute walk. It is a five-minute walk for those who are not used to walking as part of their wellness programme! With these words, the debate and the business of this EPC is concluded.
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 18:57.
END OF TAKE
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