Hansard: Appropriation Bill: Debate on Budget Vote No 26 – Communications

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 19 Apr 2010

Summary

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Minutes

TUESDAY, 20 APRIL 2010

PROCEEDINGS OF THE EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – E249

__________

Members of the Extended Public Committee met in Committee Room E249 at 16:40.

The House Chairperson, Mr K O Bapela, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Let me express my apologies for starting almost 10 minutes late. We had challenges with the venue. So many guests have arrived. I would like to send our sincere apologies to the guests of the department and Minister and the other guests who are interested in the subject matter. Our number does indicate that the telecommunications industry is an ever-growing one! Therefore, in future we will make sure that the debate goes to a venue bigger than this one. If you are uncomfortable where you are sitting, please accept my apologies for that.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON

APPROPRIATION BILL

(Debate)

Budget Vote No 26 – Communications

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: House Chairperson, Cabinet colleagues present, hon members of the Portfolio Committee on Communications, senior officials of the Department of Communications, captains of the information and communications-technology industry, members of the media, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, the presentation of the Department of Communications 2010 budget takes place against the backdrop of a global recovery from the debilitating economic crisis, in which, once more, the poorest nations have been severely affected.

The impact of this recession is most felt in the developing world, where aid and investment from the rich countries have shrunk considerably, resulting in job losses and increased poverty. South Africa, like any other developing country, has not been immune to the effects of the recession. Given the commitments we made to voters in 2009, we as government should not shy away from our responsibility to deliver on the mandate they gave us to ensure that their lives are improved. Therefore, it is necessary to nurture, promote and establish private and public partnerships, as well as mobilise international assistance and the participation of civil society, labour and academia.

Our approach to building the developmental state can no longer be along the same old lines. Our government has introduced a clear programme of action to overcome our developmental challenges. In his 2010 state of the nation address, President Jacob Zuma emphasised the need to create sustainable jobs, to provide opportunities for the youth and to ensure rapid service delivery for marginalised areas.

Esteemed members, the information and communications-technology industry, ICT, is a potentially transformative developmental tool, provided it is well located within the overall policy framework and is not seen as an end in itself but a necessary means. It is the hump that feeds the camel. The strategy of ICT should be determined by the reality of our people's needs. These needs are, among other things, our human resources development, ICT growth and competitiveness, and the uplifting of underdeveloped rural areas.

Our strategic objective is to encourage social access to technologies within a people-centred, development-orientated paradigm. Our people should be empowered to access information and knowledge to bring about social transformation and cohesion.

Sustainable service delivery that impacts on communities requires the effective use and deployment of appropriate integrated ICT at all levels. The building of the developmental state without the effective appropriation of ICT across government, business and civil society will delay and hamper the achievement of our developmental goals. This technology is a catalyst for service delivery and the backbone of 21st- century socioeconomic development.

In 1995 government initiated the development of a South African Information Technology Industry Strategy, Saitis. That project set out an Information and Communications Technology Sector Strategy Development Framework for South Africa. Its main objective was, and I quote:

... the bridging of the global development gap and the development of a robust, growing and sustainable ICT sector that would directly support and contribute to sustainable economic growth, social upliftment and empowerment.

Saitis estimates that the telecommunications sectors contribute more than 7% to GDP. Therefore, it has become important for us to quantify business streams within the industry which contribute to the current percentage. This will assist us to develop appropriate policies that will add to the sector's contribution to GDP.

The question that arises is: what are we doing to develop policies and regulations that will stimulate further growth in the sector in order to attract new investors and create more jobs? In the previous financial year we committed to develop and pass policies and legislation aimed at further growing the ICT sector.

I am pleased to report that Cabinet has approved the Radio Frequency Spectrum Policy. This policy provides for spectrum management, which involves the allocation of frequency according to the country's developmental needs and international standards. It will ensure efficient radio frequency utilisation and management of this scarce national resource.

In addition, this policy will further contribute to economic growth by promoting new services where required. We have finalised the broadband policy, and the vision is to ensure that South Africans have universal access and services to broadband by 2019. The benefits accruing from the policy will include the provision of multimedia and e-government throughout the country. The implementation of the broadband policy will impact on the growth of the economy through expanding markets, increasing business efficiency and promoting competition.

I have also submitted for the consideration of this House the South African Post Office Bill. This Bill seeks to establish a governance model for the Post Office that will ensure greater transparency, accountability and efficiency. I am pleased to report that the Post Office managed to implement a business model fashioned according to its market. It is looking into introducing two other business units, one of them being to concentrate on compliance.

We can highlight some of its successes, such as the roll-out of 47 new post-office branches in the past financial year. Revenue increased to R6,3 billion, due mainly to increases in revenue in the Post Office's mail and financial services. [Applause.] This was because of expansion of addresses and value-added financial services. Moving forward, the Post Office is expected to maintain the surplus it has been making for the past four years.

The Post Office has also been faced with challenges, including expanding its footprint and bridging the digital divide. However, for the 2010-11 financial year it intends to focus on its financial sustainability, diversification programme, rural and youth programmes and achieving customer satisfaction.

Its branch expansion programme will continue with the addition of 20 new offices and relocation of 11 other offices. I wish to commend the Post Office for maintaining a good financial position. I would urge it to accelerate its expansion programme, including allocation of physical addresses, as this has a direct impact on connectivity and other services such as banking. In addition this will improve the Post Office's market reach.

The Post Bank Bill, which is also before the House, seeks to corporatise the bank so that it exists as a separate, independent legal entity. I wish to stress that corporatisation should not be misunderstood to mean privatisation, or even that there is a likelihood of privatisation being considered in the future.

The Post Bank will render transactional services and lending facilities through, among others, the existing infrastructure of the Post Office, and develop into a bank of first choice, particularly for communities that have little or no access to commercial banking services or facilities. The Post Bank will also respond to local community banking needs, which will minimise travel costs.

The Cybersecurity Policy was gazetted in February for public comment. The policy is being discussed with relevant stakeholders.

In this Parliamentary session, we intend to introduce legislation aimed at further strengthening our ICT policy framework. Therefore, we will table the following Bills: The Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, Amendment Bill; the Public Service Broadcasting Bill; and the Electronic Communications Amendment Bill. The latter seeks to align Ministerial directives, clear up ambiguity of some definitions and further include the creation of strategic support structures such as the Tariff Advisory Council, among other things. In addition, a policy directive will be issued to Icasa to conclude the unbundling of the local loop.

We have commenced the development of the local content strategy. However, this will be finalised once the South African Local Content Advisory Council is appointed.

I am happy to report to the House that our interventions have stabilised the SABC, which was plagued by serious corporate governance and financial challenges last year. In June 2009, I established a Ministerial task team to investigate more deeply the root causes which led to the collapse of corporate governance and financial challenges at both the SABC and Sentech. The task team concluded their assignment and we are beginning to see the positive effects of their recommendations.

As you will recall, the SABC was hit by a liquidity crisis and organisational instability. An interim board was appointed, which engaged with management in putting in place mechanisms to ensure the curtailment of expenditure and revenue increment. The corporation was granted a R1,4 billion government guarantee to enable it to borrow from private banks. A tripartite monitoring team, comprising officials from Department of Communications, Treasury and the SABC, has been established to monitor the financial performance of the corporation, and its adherence to the terms and conditions underpinning the government's guarantee. We will ensure that the SABC does not do anything to trigger the recall of the guarantee and that the going-concern status of the corporation is not compromised.

A new board was appointed and continues to implement a turnaround strategy, which includes austerity measures, to enhance revenue and reduce costs. The corporation's radio sales unit achieved its sale targets and recorded an 11% improvement in advertising. Going forward, the corporation must implement the turnaround strategy. It must support delivery on the core mandate. The corporation must focus on procuring local content over the current Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF.

I wish to thank the SABC for developing public viewing areas for the World Cup, as this further contributes to bringing broadcast services to our people. I am sure this will not be a once-off service only, but that access to quality broadcasting services will continue to be a top priority for the SABC.

I have appointed new board members and a chairperson for Sentech. I believe this will bring about greater purpose to the organisation and allow it to focus on the delivery of the mandate for which it was created. The process to fill the position of the chief executive officer is currently under way.

Sentech is a strategic state entity whose main function is being the signal carrier for the state. In the past financial year, Sentech continued to maintain terrestrial analogue television and radio transmission at 99,9% beyond customer service levels, which is the technical definition for uninterrupted service provision.

For the 2010-11 financial year, Sentech will continue with the roll-out of the digital terrestrial television, DTT, infrastructure. Sentech is critical in the provision of digital terrestrial television. Its target is to reach 60% population coverage by the end of the 2010-11 financial year. We will monitor the process of implementation.

Let me take this opportunity to thank Sentech and Telkom for collaborating in providing the ICT infrastructure for the 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup.

For the past five years, the cost of communicating and doing business in South Africa has been impeded by exorbitant charges. In my maiden speech in 2009, I signalled my desire to bring down the cost of communication. Today I am proud to report that South Africa is well on its way to reducing this cost. In November 2009, I issued a policy directive for Icasa to initiate a process to reduce the mobile termination rate, MTR, to cost. Simultaneously, I engaged in a process of consultation and discussion with the mobile operators for them to voluntarily begin to reduce the MTR. This culminated in an agreement for an initial cut of the MTR from R1,25 to 89 cents with effect from 1 March 2010. [Applause.]

In line with this, Icasa approved a revised amended interconnection agreement. Further, I wish to acknowledge and recognise the commitment that the three mobile operators exhibited by voluntarily introducing much cheaper packages to cater for the needs of the poorest during the December 2009 festive season.

Icasa has now released draft regulations aimed at ensuring cost-based MTR rates in July 2010 on a sliding scale. Telkom committed to pass the savings emanating from the reduction in the MTR back to the consumer, and this is already yielding positive benefits.

Let me take this opportunity to thank Cell C, Vodacom, MTN and Telkom for co-operating with both my department and the Portfolio Committee on Communications and Icasa to bring down the cost of communication. [Applause.] The next phase of cost-cutting measures should involve the retail market which supplies services directly to consumers. Lastly, Cabinet has adopted the department's programmes of action on initiatives to reduce the cost of communication.

A stable regulatory regime is necessary for us to address key ICT developmental challenges. Therefore, it is critical for Icasa to focus on the following: regulatory certainty; liberalisation; promotion of the ICT sector; aligning its structure, leadership and culture with the strategy; licensing for new services; achieving universal service and access.

I would like to urge Icasa to accelerate the finalisation of all outstanding regulations because that will have a positive bearing on the development of the industry. [Applauses.] The Portfolio Committee on Communications has meanwhile called for nominations for four councillors, including the chairman of Icasa, whose term is coming to an end. I thank them for work well done.

Over the past year, the department has reviewed and audited all existing outstanding commitments related to spectrum licence obligations. You will recall that in 2004 and 2006, when spectrum licences were granted to mobile and fixed operators, specific universal service obligations were included. My department recently interacted with the operators, urging them to expedite delivery on their commitments. The department has agreed with the operators to establish a working team to pursue these obligations. Icasa, the Universal Service and Access Agency of South Africa, Usaasa, and the national and provincial departments will be an integral part of this working group.

We reached an agreement with the mobile operators to make available 80 000 mobile units by May 2010, which will be distributed to the police, safety and security agencies, and the emergency officers who will be deployed at the various Fifa 2010 stadia. Additional beneficiaries of the other obligations will be identified in the course of the year. This is in line with this department's contribution to ensuring the safety of the public, which is a government priority.

As part of our broadcasting digital migration plan, I recently disbanded the Digital Dzonga. This was because of the perceived potential conflict of interest that arose with some council members. Nominations are ongoing and names will be made public soon. I wish to thank all former council members for the sterling contributions they made.

My department successfully hosted the national summit on set-top-box manufacturing, which involved industries. We will conclude the conformance scheme in the first quarter of this financial year. A draft roll-out plan for the scheme for ownership of set-top boxes for poor television-owning households has been developed. The scheme provides poor people with subsidies of up to 70% that allow them to procure the set-top box.

In my maiden Budget Vote speech I committed the Department of Communications to working closely with key stakeholders to make ICT relevant to the people of South Africa. The department has since developed a Stakeholder Engagement Programme that seeks to institutionalise a structured programme of engagement with key stakeholders.

In this regard, the Department has identified various industry and business associations that are critical to ensuring that it achieves its mandate of creating a favourable ICT environment. We have created an ICT Industry Forum, which has met twice. This initiative has been met with great enthusiasm by the sector, which regards interaction with the department as key to the advancement of their interest.

I am also of the opinion that government can use ICT to improve its efficiency and streamline its operations. Therefore, the development of a coherent framework for the deployment and utilisation of ICT in government is critical. It is urgent that government adopts and uses ICT in order to modernise services and improve administration and efficiency. The roll-out of effective ICT services will ensure that government services are available to all South Africans equitably, irrespective of where in the country they are.

South Africans will be able to see a single face of government and connect with all levels of government and different departments using a single platform. ICT offers the possibility of e-government, where government offers a seamless and integrated platform for interaction.

When addressing rural development, ICT can also contribute to the scientific interpretation of outputs in the agricultural sector, water management, and numeracy and literacy training of communities. This will also contribute to our involvement in growing the second economy.

The department's main responsibility is ICT policy initiation and development, and overseeing the implementation thereof. My department, unlike others, does not have the physical presence at provincial and local government levels to implement programmes. We are dependent on partnerships and collaborative arrangements that involve the private sector, all levels of the public sector and non-governmental organisations.

The state-owned enterprises, SOEs, are the primary instruments through which the department implements its programmes. I have realised the need to ensure that SOEs develop strong governance procedures and systems. As a result of this, we have, among other things, strengthened the shareholder compact between the Minister and the boards of the SOEs. I am calling for greater institutional capacity-building, more effective utilisation of the human resources capacity, better financial management and greater cohesion.

In order to ensure the sustainability of SOEs as part of my government's arsenal to deliver on the Polokwane Resolutions and our election mandate, I have requested the department to set up an effective monitoring system for the SOEs, one that will address the objectives of providing effective and efficient oversight of SOEs and other entities.

Since my appointment as Minister of Communications, I have been focusing on improving the capacity of the department to deliver effectively, efficiently and timeously. One of the first actions I undertook was the appointment of the director-general in October 2009 as a measure to introduce stability into the organisation. I have been examining our organisational capability with a view to improving performance and enhancing the capacity of the department to deliver on the ANC government's mandate. During this initial period we also had to exercise our authority to institute disciplinary measures against officials who transgressed the provisions of the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA.

South Africa is an integral part of Africa. At the level of ICT integration of policy and systems, we will create an environment that is economically beneficial to all the people of the continent. In that spirit we hosted the African Union Communications and Information Technology meeting at Ministerial level. The Oliver Tambo Declaration, which was adopted at this meeting, calls for the promotion of the integration of African ICT policy and systems, sharing of human resources, harmonisation of ICT regulations within the continent and sharing of infrastructure where possible, addressing the accessibility and cost of communication. This culminated in the Addis Ababa Declaration of 2010, adopted by the AU heads of state and government, which was attended by President Jacob Zuma.

The summit re-enforced the principle of the 2009 Oliver Tambo Declaration and took a further decision to develop an African cyberframework by 2012. During this period, we will seek to pursue the spirit of the Addis Ababa Declaration and the Nepad principles of integration for the subregion. Of particular importance for our country in this financial year will be the finalisation of the SADC home and away tariff regulations. This is aimed at reducing roaming and cross- border communications costs.

At the broader international level, the department will seek the strategic placement of South African nationals in multinational organisations and continue to influence debates in these forums.

In May 2010 South Africa will participate in the World Telecommunications Development Conference. In October 2010 we will participate in the International Telecommunications Union, ITU, at the Plenipotentiary Conference in Mexico. We shall strive to ensure that South Africa is globally positioned and that the needs of our developmental agenda are highlighted for the next four years.

Our participation in the ITU is of critical importance. Therefore, I call upon all ICT role-players to actively participate and support the department in all ITU activities. It is important that we realise that the challenges we face require us to adopt policies that pursue African advancement and enhance international cooperation.

Last year I pronounced that my department will develop an Integrated ICT Policy Framework, which will seek to position ICT as a central enabler for effective service delivery to transform the lives of our people. I wish to inform the House and the public that consultation towards developing the comprehensive ICT policy framework has begun at various levels. I will soon be making a preliminary discussion paper available to the public for more comprehensive deliberations and inputs.

We should recognise the critical importance of ICT as a major user of energy and natural resources and as an enabler for environmental and cultural change. Therefore, we have to do our best to ensure that technology systems that we use to improve our lives do not have a negative effect on the environment that our children and their offspring will inherit. I therefore wish to further inform the House and the public that we will be embarking on an ICT greening strategy to reduce the environmental impact of our computer and electronic systems.

The Deputy Minister of Communications would normally have been here to make her complementary input to my budget speech. However, she is stranded in Paris as a result of the volcanic eruption in Iceland that has disrupted international air traffic. She was part of the Deputy President's delegation to Tunisia. I have adapted the inputs that the Deputy Minister was going to make to this honourable House and I present them on her behalf in the body of my Budget Vote speech. The Deputy Minister sends her regards to this honourable house.

The Constitution of the Republic makes provision for the right to freedom of expression. This important right includes the freedom of the press and other media, and the freedom to receive and impart information or ideas. As you know, the majority of our people living in rural and semi-urban areas have little or limited access to information, particularly access to print media and digital data. Our challenge is to ensure that our people enjoy equal status, social and economic, which builds communities and empowers them to live a better-quality life.

Our national democratic transformation agenda is premised on the ideals of achieving a national democratic society in which our communities have equal opportunity to reap the benefits of the modern economy. We have a responsibility to direct the means of delivering access to information and communications with a bias towards the poor and the marginalised sections of our society.

Our democratic government has passed legislation and policy frameworks to enable the enhancement and the delivery of online services. The Electronic Communications and Transaction Act provides for the provision of online services and the creation of an e-commerce environment that is secure and authentic. This Act supports the provision of online services delivered via the internet. I will continue to work with our sister departments and stakeholders to ensure the speedy automation of certain online government services for the benefit of the citizens.

The automation of the online government service platform will not only transform the relations between government and the citizens by ensuring e-participation but will also improve business processes within the three spheres of government and the private sector. As government, we will continue to implement these policies and encourage strategic investment in ICT backbone infrastructure in provinces and municipalities, especially in rural areas. We will also work closely with the provincial and local government within the co-operative framework espoused through the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act.

In October last year, I hosted the Intergovernmental Relations Forum, which was attended by MECs from the nine provinces of our country. The common challenge expressed by most provinces is the unavailability of ICT infrastructure, while others indicated that they have began their investments in fibre-optic networks. However, I must highlight that there is a strong need to integrate our plans to ensure interoperability and accessibility of these networks by individual households. Our people must have maximum return from all these investments that our government is making.

One of the strategic goals of the department is to accelerate socioeconomic development by increasing universal access to ICT services. The department has implemented various projects in pursuit of the goal of increasing the uptake and usage of information and communications technologies by government and individuals in partnerships with business, civil society and labour. In the building of an information society, we are guided by the principles of people-centredness and inclusivity. I am glad to inform you that on 26 February 2010, we launched an information society multi-stakeholder forum. This is the Information Society Partnership for Africa's Development, ISPAD.

In the previous financial year, the department developed an ICT Small and Medium Enterprise Strategy, which is centred on entrepreneurship principles. The roll-out of this strategy will ensure the establishment of ICT business incubation centres in Limpopo, Mpumalanga and KwaZulu-Natal.

The broadcasting digital migration programme provides a unique opportunity for Small, Medium and Micro Enterprise, SMME, growth in our electronics-manufacturing and content-generation subsectors...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon Minister, unfortunately your time has expired. Will you please conclude? You no longer have time, expect for five minutes to end your speech.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: The year 2010 marks the mid-term of the World Summit on Information Society. In May this year, South Africa will join member countries of the United Nations participating in the global assessment of the progress made in the implementation of the summit outcomes since their adoption in 2005.

Finally, I want to thank my Deputy Minister, Ms Dina Pule, in absentia, the director-general, and all staff members of the department for the hard work done. To them I say: we must always remember our central theme, which is to ensure that ICTs are used for accelerated service delivery and empowerment. I thank the members of the Portfolio Committee on Communications, under the leadership of Mr Vadi, for providing advice, wisdom and support, especially during my maiden period in office.

I ask this House to approve Budget Vote No 26 of the Department of Communications. Fellow South Africans, my parting words in this historic year of 2010, the year of action, is: let us show the world and confound our critics. South Africa can pull it off, on and off the field. On the part of those of us in the ICT sector, the ICT infrastructure for the 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup and the international broadcasting centre will be fully operational before the official kickoff date of 11 June 2010.

Mayihlome Bafana Bafana. Ke Nako! Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]

Mr I VADI: Chairperson, it is my pleasure to introduce the Budget debate on Communications on behalf of the ANC and the committee. Members from the ANC will speak on the specific entities linked to the department of Communications, but I will focus specifically on the department itself.

The latest edition of the magazine African Communications carries a feature article by Arthur Goldstuck on the key trends in the ICT sector since last year. In it, he states:

While South Africa's telecoms sector experienced a number of earthquakes in 2009, 2010 seems set to bring the tsunami. Last year was breathtaking in the scope and scale of events in the industry. The divorce between Telkom and Vodacom; the collapse of the Bharti-MTN merger; the landing of the Seacom undersea cable; the first reduction ever in interconnect fee for calls between South African mobile operators; and the beginning of the roll-out of new fibre optic backbones across Africa means that nothing will ever be the same again.

He said this year will see the implications of all these events not only becoming clear but also transforming the market. What is interesting about Goldstuck's analysis is that the information and communication technologies tsunami that he speaks about has its origins almost entirely in initiatives launched by the private sector. It is almost as if government has had no role to play in the shaping of these trends and developments. But we know that this is not true.

A few examples will prove my case. In recent years this government has invested almost R5 billion for the provision of robust ICT infrastructure in preparation for the FIFA Soccer World Cup. The international broadcasting centre that the Minister spoke about is a massive, high-tech nerve centre that will service a 30 000 strong media contingent during the tournament. Sentech will offer a digital terrestrial service during the tournament. And the SABC has upgraded its redundant equipment with digital gear and will provide live coverage of all 64 games during the tournament.

The point I'm getting at is that there must be a constructive partnership between government, the private sector and other institutions in civil society if we are to accelerate the growth and development of the ICT sector. But this partnership must be premised on a set of clear principles.

For me these are, among others: First, transparency, openness and public accountability – both for government, civil society and the private sector. Second, there should be open channels of communication among these three sectors. Third, we must advance the principle of cost effectiveness and efficiency operations. Lastly, there must be a proper balance between private and public interests.

I want to dwell briefly on the issue of balancing public and private interests, particularly the question of managing conflicts of interest. Even though we accept that the private sector is driven by profits, it also does serve the public good. So, for instance, we cannot deny the positive impact the mobile industry has had on our population, which includes the poor.

However, it is important that enterprises in the private sector, including its black economic component, should not abuse the transparency and openness of this government and attempt to manipulate tender processes in favour of some enterprises to the exclusion of others. [Applause.] In simple terms, then, industry is free to manage its interests as it deems fit, provided it does so ethically.

Similarly, public servants and public representatives must also not attempt to manipulate, either directly or indirectly, specific business transactions at any level of government in favour of themselves, their friends or families. [Applause.] Essentially, public servants and representatives should do what they are supposed to do: serve the public.

In this regard, the committee is pleased to report that in the Department of Communications, 99,8% of the senior management – that is 85 out of 86 senior managers - have to date declared their interests and are compliant with the Public Service Code of Conduct. [Applause.]

The single remaining person – I don't know who he or she is - has until the end of this month to comply and I hope it is going to get done with the director-general. [Laughter.] This is a very positive development which we must applaud.

I want to stress that this is an important issue for the committee itself, particularly in the light of what happened at the SABC. The Auditor-General found last year that there were significant deficiencies in the corporation's supply chain management due to non-adherence to policies, directives and delegated authority by senior management.

In fact, the report states quite explicitly:

The various allegations raised regarding possible or perceived conflicts of interest is indicative of a lack of confidence that the procurement and provisioning system of the SABC is fair, equitable, transparent and competitive. This perception may be strengthened by the number and level of employees who do have other commercial interest and the nature of the businesses of the entities in which they have an interest. In this regard, the Auditor-General found that there were 1 465 SABC employees who had interests in companies or corporations. There was no central register of approval granted to the employees, which is an example of inadequate management of information.

This is shocking, if not scandalous. It must be re-affirmed that even those working for the public broadcaster are public servants and should not engage in business activities that leave them conflicted. The committee is strongly of the view – and I see the chairperson of the board is here - that the board must conclude unfinished business in respect of the Auditor-General's report. [Applause.]

When one examines the situation at Sentech, a similarly disconcerting picture emerges. For instance, Sentech has acted outside its political mandate by not concluding an agreement with the Eastern African Submarine Cable System, EASSy, which was approved by this government, and instead entered into a landing rights agreement with Baharicom Development Company. I think this raises a very central issue of the political mandate: if the mandate of Cabinet is A, how is it that officials go into B? It is a serious question. Also, there are several examples that its staff recruitment practice is driven by considerations that might not be publicly justifiable.

However, in the absence of the Ministerial Task Team's report being made available to the committee, it is not possible at this stage to state conclusively that there is or is not a case of unethical conduct or practices that promote a conflict of interest in the company. But the committee has a gut feeling that the situation is not entirely satisfactory. Hence, we shall be calling on the newly appointed board to appear before us, preferably shortly.

Since the appointment of Minister Nyanda, Deputy Minister Pule and the new Director-General, there has been a burst of energy and enthusiasm in terms of policy proposals that are coming through from the Ministry. That is a very positive development because I think there was lethargy in the previous era.

The department's strategic plans for the year are more focused and the budget is better aligned to key priorities. [Applause.] I see that applause was engineered by the Director-General. [Laughter.] There is no harm in officials also applauding their own work. [Interjections.] The department has also been much more responsive to the committee's request for additional information and further briefings.

On the question of mobile termination rates, I think the Minister has already indicated the successes there. If I can draw on military terminology from the days when the Minister was a soldier, I would say that the Ministry and Parliament launched a pincer operation, which ensured that interconnection rates were reduced to 89 cents last month.

Last week, as we have heard already, the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, issued proposals for the further regulation of interconnection rates over the next two years. It suggested that these rates be reduced according to a glide path, with an initial reduction to 65 cents in July this year, 50 cents in July next year, and 40cents in July 2012. Fixed-line termination rates are also to be reduced. These are very positive developments.

As we applaud or recognise these achievements, we must also be mindful of a specific departmental weakness. These have been meticulously highlighted by the Public Service Commission's recent evaluation of the performance of the department against nine constitutional values and principles governing public administration.

In terms of its performance and compliance report, the Public Service Commission, PSC, gave a 39% rating to the department when it was under the leadership of the former Director-General – who, incidentally, is now a member of Cope. [Laughter.] That is factually correct, Chairperson, I am not misleading the House.

This 39% is categorised by the PSC as poor performance against most of the standards. Now let us look at the last appearance. The department received an "excellent" and "good" rating respectively for fairness in decision-making processes and maintaining adequate financial controls over departmental programmes. But it received a poor performance rating in respect of the following ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]

MR VAN DER BERG


Mr I VADI

Mr N J VAN DEN BERG: Chairperson, this is what they call innovation! Some people sat here for 20 years without thinking of this. This is my pulpit and it is very easy to read from this.

Afrikaans:

Voorsitter, Ministers, agb lede van die Parlement, ek gaan baie Engels praat.

English:

Mr Minister, please listen to the interpretation. I am going to speak a lot of Afrikaans because otherwise the interpreters do not have anything to do.

Afrikaans:

Die probleme van die Departement van Kommunikasie is veelvuldig. Die Minister het te veel sê in die magte van al die entiteite en in die aanstelling van rade en die hoof uitvoerende amptenare. Dan weet niemand wie dra die broek in die departement nie. Om watter rede, agb Minister, het die direkteur-generaal gister uitlatings by die Statebond Internasionale Konferensie oor Uitsaaiwese gemaak? Die direkteur-generaal het die 1% belasbare bedrag wat die belastingbetalers op die offerkis van die regering moet plaas, te berde gebring.

Die rede vir die groot verwarring en onrustigheid in Suid-Afrika is die regering se onvermoë om tussen twee woorde te onderskei, naamlik filosofie en ideologie. Dit veroorsaak ongemak in Suid-Afrika en dit is wat ons baie duidelik sien in al die staatsentiteite gebeur omdat daar nie behoorlike rigting is nie.

In breë terme beteken filosofie een ding en ideologie kan 'n ander gevolg hê. Dit beteken dat die oorkoepelende ANC een gedagte het, maar as gevolg van die ideologiese interpretasie van elk van die alliansievennote, het ons vandag se gemors. Die alliansievennote van die regering interpreteer ideologie telkens anders. 'n Filosofie is 'n oorwoë mening. Ideologie beteken die praktiese uitvoering van filosofie.

English:

Karl Marx en Friedrich Engels developed a theory about ideology, and I quote from Leon P Baradat's book Political Ideologies:

They argue that rather than a science of ideas, ideology is nothing more than a fabrication used by a particular group of people to justify themselves. The concepts in ideology were completely subjective and they were used to justify the ruling class of society. Thus, the dominant political ideas or ideology of any society will always reflect the interest of the ruling class and, according to Marx and Engels, were based on incorrect interpretations of the nature of politics.

Karl Mannheim basically agreed with Marx's conclusion. Mannheim compared the ideology of one historical era to that of another, arguing that no ideology could be fully understood unless this historical relationship was clear. No ideology can be understood unless we grasp the ideas of the previous era and investigate the impact of the previous ideology on the current one.

Afrikaans:

Teen dié agtergrond is dit belangrik om te let op die gekompliseerde, bykans hopelose toestand waarin vandag se ANC en regering hom bevind. Die paar hoëlui protagoniste glo in die breër beginsels van die ANC. Omrede ideologie op pragmatiese wyse neerslag vind in die uitvoering van die filosofiese denke op die mense via sy strukture, is daar kortsluitings wat telkens voorkom. Ons sien dit elke dag in die koerante, omdat wat in die breër filosofiese verband verkondig word, nie ideologies in die praktyk sy uitwerking het nie.

So sien ons elke dag die uitwerking van ideologie indien jy kyk na uitlatings van die ANC, Cosatu en die SA Kommunistiese Party - ook die ANC-jeugliga en dan ook party nommer vyf, naamlik Zanu-PF. Ja, Robert Mugabe speel ook 'n rol.

Ek praat met rede baie Afrikaans, soos ek netnou gesê het. Ek wil tog nie hê dat Suid-Afrika as 'n koloniale land gesien moet word nie, want dan het Cecil John Rhodes totaal geslaag in die verengelsing van ons pragtige land. Engels is nie eers 'n Afrika-taal nie, so laat ons liewers in die toekoms Zulu praat, mnr die Minister, of Xhosa, of Tswana. Ek sal hard daaraan werk, maar laat ons net nie met mekaar Engels praat nie - dan mis ons die bus!

Ek wil net vir mnr Vadi sê die persoon van Cope wat die party, die hele party, verlaat het, het gesien die skip is besig om te sink, toe spring hy vinnig. [Gelag.] En daar gaan nog baie wees wat vinnig spring.

Verder, oor die filosofiese en ideologiese, genadiglik het ons in Suid-Afrika 'n filosofiese onderbou waaroor almal saam besluit het, naamlik die Grondwet. Dit is die ding wat vir ons rigting gee in Suid-Afrika, maar hoe dit praktiese neerslag vind in die lewe van elk van ons gaan oor die ideologiese.

Ek wil vir u sê die enigste ideologiese kampvegter van dié filosofie is die DA. Die DA beskerm die Grondwet van Suid-Afrika absoluut. Ek weet Mev Kilian wil opspring, maar Cope doen dit ook, en baie dankie ook vir die ID en almal wat meehelp om die Grondwet, die filosofiese denkraamwerk van Suid-Afrika, te beskerm, want as ons moet wag vir die ANC om die Grondwet te beskerm, het ons lankal die oorlog verloor. U kan gerus glimlag, mnr Vadi. Wie beskerm die Grondwet van Suid-Afrika? Nie die ANC nie.

Net om my gedagtes en ideologie by die debat tuis te bring, die probleme in die Departement van Kommunikasie is veelvuldig.

English:

Prof B TUROK: Chairperson, on a point of order: the rules of Parliament require that contributions and debates, especially on a Budget Vote debate, are relevant to the issue. What I have heard so far has no relevance whatsoever.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R MDAKANE): Hon member, we shall investigate that. Please continue, hon Van Den Berg. Proceed.

Afrikaans:

Mr N J VAN DEN BERG: Net om my gedagtes en ideologie by die debat tuis te bring, wat ek te sê het, is van belang vir Suid-Afrika, omdat daar 'n klomp probleme is in die uitvoering van filosofiese gedagtes. As ons kyk na wat op die ou einde op die grond gebeur, dan is dit belangrik.

Eerstens, daar is swak politieke leierskap, wat ek reeds gesê het. Die beste voorbeeld was gister. Hoe op dees aarde kan 'n direkteur-generaal iets sê wat nie in pas is met die politieke beleid van die departement nie? Daar sit my goeie vriend, mnr Ismail Vadi, die agb Voorsitter van die Portefeuljekomitee oor Kommunikasie. Ons het nog nie een keer die Uitsaaiwysigingswetsontwerp bespreek nie, nie een enkele keer nie, en wat gee die direkteur-generaal die reg om dit daar te doen?

Die swak bestuur van die ANC in regering is alles ideologies gedrewe. Al die staatsentiteite vaar swak, bitterswak, pateties, noem dit maar op. Die SAUK het 'n klein bietjie verbeter. Sentech, en die Onafhanklike Kommunikasieowerheid van Suid-Afrika, Okasa, sukkel. Alles gaan oor swak ideologiese besluite.

U moet een ding onthou: apartheid is lank terug verby. Wat het Marx, Engels en Mannheim gesê? Beoordeel vandag wat gister gebeur het, ook in vorige bedelings. Ek wil vir u sê indien u dit nie weet nie, die ANC moet hom begin self-evalueer ten opsigte van die Madiba-era, die bykans twee termyne van Thabo Mbeki, dan was daar Limpopo, en nou President Zuma se termyn in die Parlement. [Tussenwerpsels.]

English:

So what?

Afrikaans:

Omdat dit so belangrik is, dis wat. Vra enige mens in Suid-Afrika wat is fout met die staatdiens. Julle moet luister, want julle mis 'n belangrike klomp punte.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M R MDAKANE): Hon Van den Berg, will you take your seat, please? Take your seat. Hon members, I have a very important announcement to make which will be user-friendly to all of us and to this honourable House. The people who organise the sound are getting irritated at the noise. Please reduce your volume.

Mr C T FROLICK: On a point of order, Chair: Can the hon member take a question to confirm that the DA has an alliance with Cope?

Afrikaans:

Mnr N J VAN DEN BERG: Vra enige mens in Suid-Afrika wat is fout met die staatsentiteite onder die Departement van Kommunikasie. Die antwoord wat ons gaan kry is staatsingryping, en dan moet ons, die Portefeuljekomitee oor Kommunikasie, skarrel om die ANC en regering se ideologiese foute reg te stel. Almal wat in dié portefeuljekomitee is weet hoe ons die afgelope jaar geskarrel en gewerk het om die probleme op te los in die entiteite van die Departement van Kommunikasie omdat daar in die verlede, nie net oor 'n dag of twee nie, bitter, bitter swak politieke besluite geneem is. Dit het veroorsaak dat die SAUK, Okasa, en Sentech nie gekom het waar hulle moet wees nie.

Daar is nog een gedagte wat ek graag by u wil laat: ek het 'n voorstel aan die Minister. In hierdie vergaderlokaal waar ons vandag is, is hier soveel kennis onder al die mense van die selfoonmaatskappye, van Telkom, wat hier sit. Almal weet hoe om die probleme van Suid-Afrika op te los omdat ons die kundigheid in Suid-Afrika het om dit wel te kan doen. Wat moet die regering doen? Die regering moet sterk leierskap toon. [Tyd verstreke.]

Die TYDELIKE VOORSITTER (Mnr M R MDAKANE): Agb Van den Berg, u tyd is om.

English:

Your time has expired. [Laughter.] Hon Van den Berg, we did note the point of order about the relevance of your speech. We shall investigate the matter and report back to this House.

Ms J D KILIAN


Mr N J van der Berg

Ms J D KILIAN: Chairperson, hon Minister, despite a relatively small budget, the strategic importance of this budget should not be underestimated if we are serious about expanding access to knowledge, information and economic empowerment. Key state-owned entities, SEOs, are overseen by the Department of Communications, which could have a major impact on the lives of all South Africans.

However, if the Minister fails to turn the Department of Communications into a proactive and vigilant department, he will fail our nation and, in particular, the poorest of the poor, unless the ANC fears that an educationally liberated and informed electorate is not so easy to mislead during elections and it is their deliberate strategy to retain a large section of our nation uneducated, uninformed and unemployed.

The challenges facing some of the SOEs demand visionary leadership to ensure that we regain our position as an information and communication technology, ICT, leader in Africa and among developing countries - a position which we had in the early 1990s.

As far as the South African Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, is concerned, Cope wants the SABC to make us proud during the 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup, and we want them to be successful so that all of us can experience the magic of the Soccer World Cup. This exciting event is critical for our nation and for nation building. We wish them well, but we also need to plan beyond. That is why Cope is happy with the input by the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Communications, Mr Ismail Vadi.

It is imperative for the new SABC board to manage the finances of the cooperation with certain respect and to root out corrupt practices and conflicts of interest. It is not good enough to have a register of people who say they have no conflict of interest or to just declare their conflict of interest. We need to make it impossible for people in public office to conduct business with the public sector. We need to root out that practice.

The public will not forget the scandalous abuse of power and of public resources by some in the SABC senior management. The deafening silence on the outcome of investigations into gross management and prima facie criminal conduct of senior management members is disturbing.

We, therefore, welcome the approach of the chairperson, and we will ensure that we assist in the process to get to the truth. South Africans want to know what went wrong there and why government had to bail them out.

We will also closely evaluate the public broadcaster's commitment to editorial independence. We are looking forward to deliberations on the Public Service Broadcasting Bill. We will never accept a public broadcaster that becomes the de facto propaganda arm of the ruling party.

As far as Sentech is concerned, we are dissatisfied with what appears to have been a lack of transparency and a lack of inclusive approach in the steps that the Minister has taken. As hon Vadi has indicated, the committee did not even have the full report before it. Cope wants to say that the practice of cadre deployment has failed. We hope that this was not another cadre deployment exercise of the ANC. Those who are guilty of the mismanagement and embezzlement of public funds should be charged, not just redeployed to another SOE or another department.

As far as the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, is concerned, the regulator has consistently been criticised for failure to exercise its mandate. Why did the Department of Communications and Parliament not enforce a performance management system to monitor the efficacy of the regulator before? It is only since last year's elections that we see some active steps. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Hon members, order please!

Ms J D KILIAN: At one stage during last year's processes, the Minister got so excited that he almost usurped the role of the regulator. Cope commends Icasa for having stood their ground by not bowing to Ministerial pressure. The net result is that South Africans will soon benefit from an interconnection rate that is significantly lower than the one negotiated by the hon Minister.

Only when Icasa regulates the markets efficiently will telecom costs for consumers drop. Government needs to drive policy, and Icasa needs to regulate decisively to break the stranglehold of dominant players on the telecommunications sector. We need to fully liberalise the market in South Africa to create an opportunity for smaller operators - those who can work with innovation - so that they can compete on a level playing field.

Research has shown that countries with fully liberalised financial and telecommunications sectors grew, on average, by about a 1,5 percentage point faster than other countries. Therefore, broadband access needs to be processed, and processed soon. It's good that we have a policy in place now, as the minister has indicated, but we need to ensure that we move fast.

The Minister needs to give visionary leadership. How should he do that? He should encourage investment and infrastructure for ICT by mitigating the risks for such investors. South Korea saw a 30% growth in internet usage within a single year, because they did just that. He should also oversee effective competition and drive public-private partnerships through Icasa, through policy directives.

The Minister has a window of opportunity to make a clean start and to give direction, but time is running out. At this stage, this ANC government and Telkom are turning access to broadband into a service for the select few who can afford it. That is unacceptable. [Time expired]

Ms M R MORUTOA: Chairperson, firstly, I just want to comment on the fact that Sentech didn't come to the portfolio committee with a report. I think hon Kilian was late, as usual. I don't think what she said is true.

Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of Parliament, distinguished guests...

IsiXhosa:

...ndiyanibulisa nonke namhlanje. Ndinikwe inxaxheba yokuthetha ngemiba emibini eyiSABC neSentech. Ndiyavuya ke xa ndiza kuzilandelelanisa zombini kuba, enyanisweni, Sihlalo obekekileyo, - nangona ungandimamelanga - ziyasebenzisana zombini.

English:

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr L B G Ndabandaba): Hon member, we are being very attentive. [Laughter.] We are concentrating on what you are saying.

IsiXhosa:

Ndifuna ukuchaza unobangela wokuba kubekho ukungasebenzi kakuhle kweSentech kwixesha eligqithileyo. Nenkcaza yam ngeSABC iza kujula kwinguqu esinayo ngoku.

Zininzi izinto ezenzekayo esele zibalulwe ngabantu abathethe phambi kokuba ndithethe. USihlalo uyibalule yonke into enxulumene neSABC, kunye nenguqu ekhoyo. Ezi zinto zenzeke kule minyaka ingaphambili nhoko zazihlasimlisa umzimba, kodwa ke oko sakhetha iqumrhu elikhoyo kukho umahluko ngoku.

English:

Over the past 24 months, the SABC has faced a severe crisis characterised by a lack of leadership, breakdown of governance structures and an inadequate executive capacity. This resulted in the corporation facing a R910 million loss before income tax for the year ending 31 March 2009.

The interim board was appointed to stabilise the SABC and the Auditor-General of South Africa was commissioned by Parliament to conduct an investigation into allegations of financial irregularities and mismanagement. These were the strategies used to contain and minimise the crisis: the SABC was granted an allocation of R200 million in terms of the Adjusted Estimates of National Expenditure, followed by a government guarantee of R1,473 billion, as security against medium-term funding that the corporation agreed upon with Nedbank.

The SABC has initiatives that it envisages for 2010. The new group executive officer assumed office and is determined to develop a turnaround strategy for the corporation. This turnaround is supposed to come in three stages, as outlined by the Minister in his previous budget speech.

Phase one, for 2010 to 2011, is meant to stabilise the corporation as a going concern. This phase is supposed to ensure that the SABC meets its public service mandate while complying with government conditions.

Phase two is meant to rebuild and realign operating business models, while phase three is meant to implement a sustainable public service broadcasting model.

As a national broadcaster, the SABC has as its overarching objective to provide a comprehensive range of distinctive programmes and services which must inform, educate, entertain, support and develop culture – not, as the previous speaker from the DA said... She was talking about the ANC government. The SABC is an entity, and we are really concerned about education.

The SABC, as far as possible, secures fair and equal treatment for various cultural groupings in the nation as a whole. It provides these services through television and radio networks.

IsiXhosa:

Ndiza kumthengela lo mabonakude mtsha ngoku, mhlawumbi uza kuzibona kuwo. [Kwahlekwa.]

English:

Our corporate will has to be cognisant of predictions that 2010 will fundamentally change the media landscape as a consequence of technological changes, particularly digitalisation. As we all know, South Africans will be going to the polls in 2011. It is important that all citizens are well informed and educated, especially those who live in rural areas. The provision of balanced, fair and relevant news on an ongoing basis is key to this, but beyond that, it is essential that the people of South Africa are fully informed about the entire election process as it unfolds.

The last thing I am really concerned about with regard to the SABC is the SABC studio that we have in Parliament. I am appealing to Parliament to house the SABC's parliamentary studio in a more spacious place, so that it can inspire interviewees. At the moment the place is quite depressing.

As for Sentech, it is a state-owned and fully commercial enterprise, as the Minister mentioned. It is also government's signal distributor, responsible for the country's migration from analogue to digital broadcasting technology. The way Sentech is currently funded is of concern, as it has long-term growth opportunities in pursuing new directions in the converging telecommunications and multimedia industries. As a result, in 2001, in terms of the Telecommunications Amendment Act No 64 of 2001, the Sentech mandate was expanded with the insertion of Section 32c.

The funding model has never been agreed on. The deadlock was between two views: one view was that the roll-out and business model must yield an economic dividend, with only R500 million being funded from the fiscus and the rest of the funding sources coming from commercial markets. The other view was that the funding of R3,8 billion should come from government, and that Sentech should immediately use the R500 million allocation to connect some of the 500 Dinaledi schools identified by the shareholder.

Sentech is currently engaging in a project to replace the aged analogue television infrastructure services operating on four digital TV platforms. It is important to take the digital technological world to previously disadvantaged rural communities. The key is to provide information to all South Africans, not to dwell on the ideologies and what-not that was mentioned. [Applause.]

The few achievements that have been made by Sentech continue to provide broadcasting signal distribution to community radio stations that cover an estimated population of approximately 12 million. Sentech's future plan is to hold discussions with the Department of Communication, DOC, and the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, to determine a model that will ensure the financial sustainability of community radios.

South Africa is currently hosting the Commonwealth Broadcasting Association, CBA, which is an important platform in media and broadcasting for information sharing and the exchange of ideas.

IsiZulu:

Anisayishayeli nezandla iNingizimu ne-Afrika. [Ihlombe.]

English:

Most members have fully moved to digital. [Time expired.] I meant to save some time for the Minister. My apologies to him. [Applause.]

Mr K M ZONDI


Ms M R MORUTOA

Mr K M ZONDI: Chairperson, I am rising to express the IFP's support for this budget vote for the simple reason that the people we represent need the services which have been placed under the custodianship of this department.

The minister made very good pronouncements during last year's budget debate and we supported him in the hope that he would exercise strong political and ethical leadership to steer his department towards the implementation of those pronouncements. Admittedly, one year in office is a short time to pass harsh judgement on the Minister's ability to achieve what he announced his department was going to do.

I come from a political tradition that says it is better not to make promises that cannot be fulfilled because all you do is raise people's expectations and heighten their sense of frustration when such promises cannot be achieved. In fact, when that happens, you are actually insulting the intelligence of the people to whom such promises were made. I hope it is not going to be the leadership style of the minister to employ tactics of deception to carry along those people who wait in hopeful expectation for what cannot be delivered. [Laughter.] In fact, I trust the hon Minister is going to make good the promissory note he gave to South Africans, especially those who live in underserviced areas of the country.

We support this budget vote in the hope that people living in rural areas are soon going to see tangible results of the promises and good intentions expressed to them last year. But, hope alone is not going to suffice in the long run. It is solid delivery on the ground which, in the final analysis, will cause people to say, "Ah ha, indeed we can see things turning for the better".

We praise the hon Minister for the bold initiatives he took in forcing cell-phone operators to reduce interconnection rates. We can only hope that such a reduction is going to be passed on to ordinary South Africans. Similarly, we praise the Minister for the leadership role he played in the resolution of the painful saga which engulfed the South African Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, by ensuring that his department provided the financial guarantees and necessary support to enable the interim board and, later, the new and current board of the SABC in their daunting task of turning around and stabilising the SABC, to save this country from possible embarrassment, which would surely befall us if the SABC disintegrated ahead of the Fifa World Cup, which will commence in 52 days.

We hope all the budgetary allocations to entities such as Sentech and Telkom will be money well spent on the extension of the national wireless broadband network and for the implementation of the Information Communication Technology, ICT, access network. These allocations should also fund the information and communication technologies infrastructure for the 2010 Fifa World Cup. Similarly, one hopes that the budgetary allocations we are being called upon to approve will be worth the effort of making it available to the Universal Service and Access Fund to build capacity and to procure the necessary supporting infrastructure to expand ICT access to South Africans who live in underserviced areas as well as to complete the migration from an analogue to a digital technology platform.

We are mindful of the fact that in the 2010 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, this department was requested to include explicit savings initiatives in the strategic plan. This request to save was made with the proviso that existing, new and expanding frontline services would not be compromised over the next three years. This was done in the context of the painful fact that our country's economy was, like most other economies of the world, going through a difficult patch, which called for austerity measures from all of us.

It is very disappointing to say that this department has not gained the reputation of leading by example, especially on the part of the hon Minister. When all of us are called upon to tighten our belts, especially when even the poor are called upon to also make their patriotic efforts to moderate their demands and expectations, it flies painfully in the face of what we exhort people to do when we, and especially the hon Minister, have a reputation to the contrary.

It is, in fact, very disappointing for those of us who want the hon Minister to succeed when he hits the newspaper headlines for wrong and embarrassing reasons. We begin to wonder whether the savings projection reflected in this department's strategic plan is going to be achieved. Therefore, we make an earnest plea to the Minister to rise to the occasion of leading by example in this regard. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN

Mr K M ZONDI

Ms W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, and hon members, as well as members of the public in the gallery, the African National Congress rises to support the Budget Vote on Communications. First, we live in a time when there is an ongoing evolution of technologies and when new priorities are emerging for which new types of creator-technicians are required. South Africa needs individuals who can play important roles in this digital age.

Second, the right to communicate is a fundamental right enshrined in the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. With the right to freedom of expression, which includes the freedom to receive and impart information or ideas, comes the right to access the means to speak and be heard.

In this speech I'm going to cover two state-owned enterprises, namely the National Electronic Media Institute of South Africa, Nemisa, and the Universal Services and Access Agency of South Africa, Usaasa, which are responsible to make sure our underserved population, which includes women, youth and people with disabilities, have a place of education and training to obtain production, technical and broadcasting skills and have access to ever-developing technology.

Nemisa is a state-owned enterprise which was established as a non-profit organisation in terms of the Companies Act of 1973. It provides much-needed skills training at an advanced level for the broadcasting industry. Nemisa was formed as part of a government initiative in 1998 and its fundamental purpose is to train previously disadvantaged individuals, particularly women, and equip them with the skills necessary to play a significant role in the broadcasting environment.

Nemisa has undergone a strategic shift from traditional broadcasting training to being a fully fledged multimedia training institution. It is accredited by the Council for Higher Education and offers diploma courses, short courses and internships in three subjects, namely TV production, radio production and creative multimedia. The emphasis is on equipping students to be market-ready in a wide range of broadcasting disciplines and to have the ability to work effectively in constantly changing conditions.

The budget allocation for Nemisa for 2010-11 is over R32,6 million. This budget will cover the following focus areas: content development for national heritage, more than R2,1 million; e-health R1,5 million; gender, disability, youth and child mainstreaming R1,2 million; broadcasting digital migration R3,3 million; community development R4 million; media industries new entrants development, more than R11 million; and information technology technicians development R404 000.

As the portfolio committee, we had the opportunity to do an oversight visit at Nemisa and it was nice to see first hand what the students were doing. Students staged a production led by a producer who was a former student at Nemisa. We were also able to see, from start to finish, from paper to screen, how animation was produced.

The vision of the Department of Communications is to make South Africa a global leader in harnessing information and communications technology for socioeconomic development. As a result Usaasa was established in 2006. Usaasa stands for the Universal Services and Access Agency of South Africa. This organisation was established in terms of section 58 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

The main role of this agency is to promote universal service and access to communications technologies and services for all South Africans. It also facilitates and offers guidance on evaluating, monitoring and implementing programmes that propose to improve universal access and service.

The Universal Service and Access Fund was established in accordance with the provision of Chapter 7 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 as amended, and its mandate, as stipulated in section 66 of the Act, states that the money in this fund shall be utilised for the following: assistance of needy persons towards the costs of the provision to or the use by them of telecommunications; to Telkom and to any other holder of a licence whose requirement it is to extend telecommunications services to areas and communities which are not being served or not adequately served by the telecommunications services, for the purpose of financing such an extension; to public schools and public further education training institutions for the procurement of internet services and equipment necessary to access the internet; for the establishment of centres where access can be obtained to telecommunications facilities; for the establishment of public information terminals; to facilitate the provision of multimedia services.

Usaasa is mandated to manage this fund and the operations contributed towards it. The budget allocation for Usaasa for the year 2010-11 is R20 million for infrastructure and R46,7 million as a contribution to operations.

Usaasa has the following focus areas for this financial year: mainly, the development of the Universal Access and Service Strategy; publication guidelines for the Universal Service Fund application; all Usaasa subsidised sites mapped in a geographical information system; and the development of measurable ICT access and impact indicators. It will also focus on the implementation of set-top boxes scheme of ownership model; the development of competitive bidding strategy and its implementation; the continued implementation of handover strategy; the development and implementation of an ICT hub model; and the implementation of the rapid deployment strategy.

The international definition of "universal service access" includes the concepts of availability, accessibility and affordability. Even though there has been good ICT growth in South Africa, the country is still a long way away from universal access to all. We support the work done by Nemisa and Usaasa, and as the ANC we support this Budget Vote.

At the same time, I would like to thank the department as well as the other stakeholders in the family of communications for their work. Thank you for making access possible to me as a deaf person. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms P DE LILLE


Ms W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN

Me P DE LILLE: Voorsitter, ek wil net vra of die agb Van den Berg nie sy doos vir my wil leen nie, asseblief. [Gelag.]

English:

The ICT sector plays... [Laughter.]

Afrikaans:

Mr N J VAN DEN BERG: Wil jy vir my hê, of wil jy dit hê? [Gelag.]

English:

Ms P DE LILLE: The information, communications and technology, ICT, sector plays a vital role in the development of our country and our people. Not only must it eventually provide all South Africans with access to various communications technologies, like television, radio, telephone and the internet, but it also has the potential to become a major economic driver by creating jobs and thereby reducing poverty.

However, there are a number of things we still need to do to achieve this. For example, the ID believes that the independent regulation of the ICT and broadcaster sectors is an essential component in ensuring access for all. Therefore, government should not be both referee and player in this sector. It is essential for competition to be introduced by promoting small and new operators. Such operators drive prices down.

South Africa also continues to lag behind in terms of connecting people to broadband. This has also been the case at educational level. In fact, Sentech's wireless broadband roll-out at 250 Dinaledi schools and surrounding sites remains an empty promise.

The Department of Communication's annual report says, and I quote:

While some capital funding was made available for this project, the operational costs of the services were to be carried by the clients on the network. Unfortunately, money was not available from the various departments for the service cost.

Another area of concern for the ID was the continued disregard shown by MTN, Cell C and Vodacom towards their 3G licensing conditions, which compels them to roll out internet connectivity and terminal equipment to institutions of people with disabilities. None of them had rolled out internet connectivity to a single IPWD by 6 November last year, according to a written response from the Minister.

In addition, MTN and Cell C have failed to roll out connectivity to 510 schools. The question is: has the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, referred them to the Complaints Compliance Committee in accordance with section 17(d) of the Icasa Amendment Act? And if so, has Icasa taken action against the licensees in accordance with the prescripts of section 17(e) of the same Act? By lying to the Portfolio Committee on Communications and saying that they were complying with this agreement, those companies show how little social responsibility they have.

Finally, I want to convey my thanks to all the members of the Portfolio Committee for supporting the ID's campaign to reduce the interconnection rate. [Laughter.] [Applause.] The continued reduction of the interconnection rate over the next three years will bring some relief for ordinary South Africans and the economy as a whole. For me, the success of this campaign shows how effective Parliament can be in improving the lives of our people. We must remind our people time and again that the power lies with the ordinary consumer. All we have to do is use it. Thank you.

Afrikaans:

Dankie vir jou doos. [Gelag.] [Tyd verstreke.]

Mr A D ALBERTS


Ms P DE LILLE

Mnr A D ALBERTS: Mnr die Voorsitter, die Departement van Kommunikasie het baie uitdagings gehad en het vele wat in die toekoms voorlê. Soos Minister Nyanda tereg gesê het, die skep van volhoubare geleenthede en die daarstel van 'n platvorm om die ekonomie te groei, hang onder meer grootliks van dié department af. Sonder kommunikasiemiddele is gemeenskappe gestrand en afgesonder in 'n wêreld wat vandag bekend staan as die globale netwerkgemeenskap.

Die VF Plus se siening was nog altyd dat gekonnekteerde gemeenskappe makliker uit armoede gelig kan word, en daarvoor is daar genoegsame getuienis.

Wat die positiewe betref wil ons die Minister geluk wens met sy hantering van die kwessies van selfoonkoste. Sy politieke leierskap om selfoonkostes af te bring is noemenswaardig. Dit is inderdaad ligjare verwyder van die willoosheid en geploeter van die Mbeki adminisistrasie. Trouens, ek kan onthou toe ek as regshoof by Dimension Data vele hofgevegte aangeknoop het met Telkom weens die monopolie wat dié instansie beklee. Dit is verblydend om te sien dat die selfoonnetwerke eerder saam werk om billike tariewe daar te stel, alhoewel dit onder dwang geskied. Die Minister sal egter ook moet kyk na die steeds dominante posisie van Telkom, nieteenstaande die feit dat die regering steeds die meerderheidsaandeelhouer is.

Wat die negatiewe betref, wil die VF Plus vervolgens 'n paar kwessies aanspreek waaroor die Minister hopelik duidelikheid kan verskaf.

English:

The Minister has set a goal to create an ICT Act. This seems quite impressive, but certain questions need to be asked: Will it be based on the South Korean, Malaysian or Indian models? What exactly is the purpose of this Act – in other words, will it fold all the existing legislation into one? Will government try to find loopholes to regulate that which cannot or should not be regulated, like Internet content? [Interjections.]

Mr Chair, can I have your protection, please?

Concerning the SABC, we commend the Minister, the department and the new board for its turnaround strategy and the implementation thereof thus far. You must not relent until the public's trust has been fully reinstated. However, we do have a few further concerns.

The Public Service Broadcasting Act allows for the Minister to get too close to the management of the SABC by way of imposing general regulations. This must be frowned upon and one must ask: for what purpose? In no other parastatal do Ministers involve themselves too closely in board or management affairs. This looks sinister and one wonders further what this will mean for equitable party-political coverage during the coming elections.

Secondly, the Act's funding model, whereby citizens are given an additional taxation burden, is unconscionable. How can citizens – some who might not even own a television set – be taxed for this service? Further international models of best practice must be investigated.

The current board seems qualified. However, there is one glaring deficiency: there is no proper Afrikaans representation. One can only hope that the board will still act equitably with regard to all indigenous languages, including Afrikaans, but this is doubtful in light of the absence of a champion in that regard.

The same question arises in regard to the appointment of the Local Content Advisory Council. It is our view that, in all future appointments, more sensitivity should be had towards the diversity of the South Africa community.

Afrikaans:

Sterkte met die werk, Minister. Daar is 'n steil pad voor, maar ons hoop u pluk die vrugte van harde en regverdige werk.

English:

Thank you.

Mr S E KHOLWANE


Mr A D ALBERTS

Mr S E KHOLWANE: Chairperson, hon Minister, leaders of the industry and hon members, the concept of universal service in South Africa was included in the Reconstruction and Development Programme document of the ANC. We said, this is a basic, it should be a basic, and an affordable telephone service should be available to all South Africans who reasonably request it, regardless of where they live.

We then said we noted that there had been some development within the industry, but we raised this concern: our quest for universal access and universal service had not been addressed in a co-ordinated manner. We needed to improve our co-ordination around these particular aspects, although various obligations had been imposed on operators by the regulator.

There is a need to ensure that the capacity of the regulator to monitor and enforce compliance with the existing obligations is strengthened, because, as we speak, monitoring remains the key challenge currently facing the regulator. An example of this is where you have one inspector or officer monitoring more than 20 radio stations. Consistent with the ANC's resolution taken at Polokwane and before that, in Stellenbosch, we said that we needed to capacitate the regulator, but we must be quick to say that intervention must not be limited to resources only. It must also seek to deal with the evaluation of the effectiveness of the current system, which is council led.

I am raising this matter because a sense of instability has just shown within the regulator, led by those who believe that the executive-led system will be the best one. If needs be, we should take some time to look into this system so that, as we move forward, we are able to evaluate the system. We are now able to venture into a system which, we think, will be able to assist us.

Rural coverage is an important aspect of rural development. Last year, on 18 February, there was a gathering in Louisville, Mpumalanga on ICT Consumer Day. Community members of Goba, Skukuza, Satara and Louisville indicated that as poor as they might be, they did own television sets. The problem they were having was that when they switced them on, there was no picture because there was no coverage. We appeal to SABC, Sentech and Icasa to attend to this matter urgently.

We all know that Telkom's national and international network constitutes the basic infrastructure critical to the economy, security and social development of this country. The question is: how do we utilise this network to ensure that we fast-track the realisation of universal service access to broadband services essential for socioeconomic development, driving connectivity and helping the underserved?

The people's movement, the ANC, understands that the unity of our people is and was one of the cornerstones of the struggle and of liberation. In order to unite our people, they must have access to equal information, so that they are able to reverse the social engineering of apartheid. The key task of the South African Post Office was the incorporation of the former TVBC states and other homelands, including central government, to form one effective postal service entity. Indeed, SAPO has passed this test with flying colours and we must be grateful to them.

The issue of clarifying the "universal obligation" is important in order to clearly define the obligations of the Post Office. The future growth of the Post Office is in part dependent on clarifying this issue, especially in the light of a projected drop in subsidy support over the next three years, and the incapacity of the regulator, Icasa, to fully protect the reserved services. We know that with the so-called monopoly of SAPO, they have it, but people just transgress that when and if they want to. As I have indicated, the regulator is found wanting because of an incapacity to address that matter.

I promised you, Minister, that I will give you three minutes of my time. I hope I will be able to keep to that promise.

Maybe one needs to clarify one issue. The ANC is the only political party known for going to its National Conference every five years to evaluate and assess its programmes and to take new policy positions and move forward. Cope knows that too, so it is not correct that we don't know how or we can't evaluate. We know others have never gone to any conference, but they stand in this House and articulate policy position. They don't have a Polokwane, they don't have a Limpopo, a Stellenbosch. They have nothing.

Minister, I must say that you must derive comfort from the fact that effective leadership is not about making speeches or being liked. Leadership is defined by results, not attributes [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr S E KHOLWANE

Ms L D MAZIBUKO: Chairperson, hon Minister, unlike the budgets of a number of other governments, which are allocated in order for the departments in question to spend their allocation on their own direct service delivery mandates, the vote under consideration today is essentially a transfer vote.

This is because, of the R2 billion estimated budget which the Department of Communications is seeking to have approved by this House, R1,6 billion, or 76,5%, is earmarked for the department's programme 4: information communications technology, ICT, enterprise development, which facilitates transfers and subsidies to the six state entities and state-owned enterprises that fall under the remit of the department. These include the SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC; SA Post Office, Sapo; Sentech; and the independent regulator, the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa.

This puts the Minister, as the shareholder of these public entities, in the unique position of having no role to play in their day-to-day management, while at the same time overseeing the transfer to them of over R1,5 billion in public money.

While this may seem like a conundrum for the department, the legislation that governs these entities in fact provides for significant audit, risk, compliance and financial management oversight on the part of the Minister. This is perfectly appropriate to his role as a majority shareholder on behalf of the South African government. It does not necessitate, as the hon Minister and Director-General Mamodupi Mohlala are in the process of trying to enforce, the creation of new loopholes in these laws to enable ministerial intervention where it is inappropriate and unnecessary.

There has been some to-ing and fro-ing over the past year between the DA and the Minister of Communications over the issue of whether the Minster has, in drafting certain pieces of legislation and in issuing certain ministerial policy directives, been attempting to micro manage the communications entities.

Time and again we heard from the Minister that he is not seeking to exercise greater influence or control over the SABC or the independent regulator. Yet the actions of the department tell a different story.

The Public Service Broadcasting Bill, which was gazetted by the Department of Communications late last year, is a case in point. The proposed legislation, whose principal intention is to make the Minister rather than Parliament and the SABC Board the accountability authority of the broadcaster, seeks to confer upon the Minister wide-ranging powers to intervene in the functioning of the SABC, in addition to its controversial proposal of levying a 1% personal income tax on working South Africans to fund the SABC.

While the DA appreciates that the proposed legislation arises in some measure out of the Minister's concern about the recent financial and management crisis faced by the SABC, we nevertheless believe that the SABC's problems are being used by the ANC government as a fig leaf to justify state interference in the functioning of the public broadcaster, which is supposed to be the pride and the voice of all South Africans, not just those who support the governing party.

The Bill spells out clearly the areas in which greater ministerial control is envisaged and includes clauses granting the Minister greater control over the SABC's finances. Elsewhere in the Bill, section 37, for example, allows the Minister to, I quote:

... instruct the board to take any actions specified by the Minister if the corporation is in financial difficulty, unable to perform its functions effectively or fails to comply with any law.

Effectively, this allows the Minister to usurp the board's authority and independence. In addition, the proposed Charter of the Corporation contains the startling provision that the board may only appoint the group chief executive officer, CEO, chief financial officer, CFO, and their equivalents after consultation with the Minister. This would have the effect of granting the Minister control over the appointment of senior management of the SABC.

Minister Nyanda and the director-general, DG, have argued that there is nothing untoward about these provisions and that they afford the Minister more leeway to oversee the public broadcaster while also ensuring that he or she can intervene in times of a crisis.

This assertion is not only contradictory to the position of the Minister of Public Enterprises, Barbara Hogan, who has repeatedly warned state-owned enterprises to remain accountable to their boards and not their Ministers, but its folly is most clearly demonstrated by a recent appointment by the Minister to a state entity whose legislation grants the Minister the very power to appoint boards and nonexecutive directors which he seeks to be granted in respect of the SABC.

In the 2009-10 financial year, the national signal distributor, Sentech, incurred a loss of R123 million, following unconfirmed allegations of financial mismanagement and as a result of discontinued business operations which included MyWireless, BizNet and Very Small Aperture Terminal, VSAT. Surprisingly, this amount, which represent a R24 million increase in its net losses from 2008-09, was not disclosed to the Department of Communications by Sentech in its corporate plan.

One would have expected that, given the massive financial crisis in which Sentech now finds itself, the Minister would be sure to appoint to its new board only members who were fit for the purpose of turning around this crucial state entity upon whose infrastructure broadcast media producers all over the country are so heavily reliant, in particular considering South Africa's impending switch-over from analogue to digital terrestrial television, DTT.

Yet, Zanele Hlatshwayo, the disgraced former mayor of Msunduzi Municipality in Pietermaritzburg, KwaZulu-Natal, has been appointed by the Minister not only as a member but as a director of Sentech's board of directors. Formerly a nurse and a teacher, Ms Hlatswayo has no technical expertise in the field of communications and signal distribution to recommend her to the post.

As the mayor of Pietermaritzburg, Ms Hlatshwayo presided over the mismanagement of the city on a grand scale, to the extent that she left the city reportedly bankrupt and indebted to the tune of R115 million. She was ultimately fired, along with the entire ANC council executive, by the ANC leadership in KwaZulu-Natal. This was not long ago. The crisis in the city came to a head just three weeks ago, when municipal services in Pietermaritzburg were brought to a standstill because of the massive financial and management problems in the municipality.

Leaked findings of the ministerial task team review, which were kept under such lock and key that not even this committee has been allowed sight of it, indicated that Sentech was in a freefall.

Yet the ANC, instead of recognising the urgency of the situation by appointing a board which is fit for the purpose of turning it around, chooses to redeploy a failed cadre with no industry or management experience. They chose someone who mismanaged the last mandate she was given into bankruptcy and was fired for her troubles.

This is what comes of ministerial prerogative in crucial appointments such as this. The needs of the party, the ANC, override the responsibility of the state to deliver efficient and effective services to the people of South Africa, as well as to manage their finance. No transparent public process would have placed such a wasteful candidate on a shortlist, much less elevated her to the position of board director. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr J H DE LANGE


Ms L D MAZIBUKO

Mr J H DE LANGE: Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, I rise in unconditional support, on behalf of the ANC, of this Budget Vote. Obviously, when we say "in unconditional support" it does not mean that we do not think there are challenges in this Budget Vote. It does not mean we think there are no problems in this Budget Vote, but we take the approach of Rev Zondi, which is a simple one, and that is that we are building a new democracy. To build a new democracy, you have to make resources available to pay for those things that we identify that government must provide as services to the people.

Once you've come to that conclusion, it is highly irresponsible to then actually say that you are not going to support a Budget Vote. What you are doing is saying to people of this country that because of mistakes that may be made or because of challenges that may exist in a department, we do not think you deserve those services. That's what you are saying to the people of South Africa. [Interjections.] Not rubbish! Listen, why don't you go and talk about foreigners again? Why don't you start swearing in Parliament again? You are a disaster, man. You are an embarrassment!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order, hon members.

Mr J H DE LANGE: I've been asked to respond... You're an embarrassment, man!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon De Lange! Hon De Lange! Just a minute! [Interjections.] Hon De Lange, can you just hold on? Hon members, running commentary is not allowed, and I think that is what I am observing. Heckling is allowed, yes, but once it becomes running commentary, it is not parliamentary. So, could you heckle without providing running commentary? Hon member, you may continue.

Mr J H DE LANGE: ... the people of this country to kill foreigners, like you did last time. You're an embarrassment, man! [Interjections.] One of the interesting things in today's debate is the content of the debate. I think that some very valid points have been made...

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Point of order, please.

Mr J H DE LANGE: ... some of which we've agreed to.

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Chairperson, on a point of order: I have never in my life told anyone to kill anyone, unlike members of the ANC. I would like the hon member to withdraw that immediately. [Interjections.]

Mr J H DE LANGE: Please check who is sitting with you here. I will withdraw it.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon De Lange, I heard what you said, but I didn't know whether it was directed at any particular person. Did you direct it at somebody?

Mr J H DE LANGE: Yes, specifically at her.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Alright. [Interjections.] Now, having heard that, can you withdraw it?

Mr J H DE LANGE: I withdraw. The record speaks for itself, so I withdraw.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Thank you very much. He has withdrawn the comment.

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Excuse me! I would like this member of this committee to refer to me as "hon member", not as "her." That is not how we address each other in this House.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Alright. Hon De Lange, she is an hon member. Could you just respect that fact, please?

Mr J H DE LANGE: Absolutely. [Laughter.] There are quite a few things I want to comment on, though.

Mr S E KHOLWANE: Order, Chair! Order, Chair!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Somebody is shouting "order" and you can't do that while seated. I think you are out of order by doing it while seated. Please, let us respect the Chair, too. You may state your point of order.

Mr S E KHOLWANE: Chair, I just want to check whether this is parliamentary: the point of order made by the hon member was that she never told people to kill anyone, "unlike the ANC members". Who has done that? Who are those ANC members? [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon members, could you conduct the debate in an honourable way? References that begin...

Mr J H DE LANGE: Can't do it with such a fool in the Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): I am addressing the House now, and you cannot tell me how to do it. Please, let us respect each other. I was referring to references that are beginning to be out of order. Can we avoid them? Heckle as you want, but let's respect the decorum of the House. We have guests who are watching and looking at you as hon members, adult as you are, and I don't know – we need not give that impression of Parliament. Please continue, hon De Lange.

Mr J H DE LANGE: I just want say that, after all of these disruptions, this thing has been running. I hope that it was stopped. [Interjections.] I have only a few minutes.

Let me first start with my comrade, hon Niekie van den Berg. I wasn't going to comment on any of the opposition, but I have to comment on you.

Afrikaans:

Jy weet, ou Niekie, wanneer jy behep is met ideologie, wanneer jy daaroor praat en dit op die manier doen wat jy dit gedoen het, lyk dit lelik, man. [Gelag.] Jy lyk soos een van daardie ou Ministers uit die apartheidera. Belangrik vir hulle ideologie was die ding van kommunisme en sosialisme. Wanneer jy so praat oor ideologie, en jy probeer dit demoniseer...

English:

... that is exactly what the apartheid government did against black people in this country and against democrats in this country. It was to try and demonise people and put them in boxes on the basis of the ideology they may believe in. Just understand this. What do you think your party does? Do you think your party is not driven by an ideology? Of course it is. It's a terrible ideology. [Laughter.] It is conservative, it is staid, and it is very unattractive to most people. [Interjections.] To most people, it is unattractive. [Applause.] However, the point is that a party is driven by ideology, and if you go to any country in this world, it is driven by ideology. What is this old foefie debate of yours between philosophy and ideology? The problem is when you do these things, you sound like an apartheid Minister with "rooi gevaar" [Communist threat] and "swart gevaar" [black threat]. Leave it! Stop it! Don't do those things. [Applause.]

I also want to say that I'm absolutely stunned that we got through a whole debate without mentioning Julius Malema. I must say I am amazed, and I really thank the opposition for that. We're not talking to you, man. Just keep quiet! [Laughter.] I want to thank the opposition for at least keeping the content at a high level.

One of the issues I wanted to raise is that of – and I think hon Mabuza touched on it...

HON MEMBERS: Mazibuko!

Mr J H DE LANGE: I apologise unconditionally. I apologise!

An HON MEMBER: It sounds the same!

Mr J H DE LANGE: The member on that side... [Laughter.] It is the issue of where we draw the line between policy formulation, which, if you were to read the Constitution, at any time is the prerogative of the executive in all areas of government. And if you go and look at schedule 4 of the Constitution, you will find communications there. It is something that has to be regulated by government. The problem, I think – and many people have raised it in various ways – is that, clearly, in the last 15 years – and it is the view on this side of the House – is where that line has been drawn.

In some of these institutions we've created - again, the hon member is correct in saying that most of the services which have to be provided in the communications area are provided by people, organisations or institutions other than government. The provider is not the department, but either the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, or the SABC, or Sentech, etc. The problem is that if you do not have policy formulation, as the Constitution asks us within the preserve of government, and you have the implementation of that policy as an independent structure, whether it's the board of Sentech, Icasa, and so on, you will run into problems such as the ones we've experienced recently.

Of course, there are many reasons for the problems we've experienced. Some of them stem from personal fights among people, and some from a whole lot of other causes. However, if you go and look at the real problem, a structural problem exists in the way in which we envisage these relationships. You cannot work in a whole area of government, which is communications, and not give government a central role in the policy formulation. Then those structures have to independently, and in terms of the precepts of "independence", as we understand it, implement those policies.

The effect would be that we would absolutely have given the power to four or five individuals in this institution to make policy on behalf of the whole South Africa. That would be the effect. If government didn't set those policy parameters and guidelines, then a few individuals would be making policy on our behalf, and they are not public representatives. They are members of a board. The Minister has reiterated in his speech that he is busy looking at policy, but this is one of the fundamental issues that we have to address: the relationship between government - and by government I mean both Parliament and the executive - and those institutions.

So, this is a vital area, and I think the interconnection fee showed us how many problems there are in this regard. On the one hand, it showed us the incredible weaknesses in Icasa, who basically just did not have the backbone, or did not want to, actually tackle the industry. We said that to them. All of us said that to them. It was very good that in the past year of our interaction with Icasa, they have really turned the ship around. I think it is really great. When we were at the Budget Vote, we did not see the same Icasa that we saw a year or a year-and-a-half ago. Icasa actually started looking at all the things it had to do, putting plans to it, and now we can all interact with it. But the policy parameters are still spelled out by Icasa; they are not spelled out by government. This is the huge problem we have, and that is one area we need to look at carefully.

I heard a lot of good things about the cellular industry. I agree with the Minister, whenever the media is around and issues are raised for the cellular industry, they are very quick, upfront, and they want to get involved and talk about things. The problem is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. At the end of the day, we have not seen one benefit coming to consumers in this country because of the cellular industry, not one. I think that if the cellular industry wants to be part of this ship, of this sector, and to make it grow, they can't continue to always be in conflict and putting profits before the basic interests of what is important in this industry.

The costs of communication, as the Minister has identified, are vital to this country. Our cost of communication, compared with some other countries, is atrocious. The industry has to come on board, and it has to be honourable and bona fide. The kinds of agreement that we saw signed in the end, where they tried to get an agreement to stop Icasa from doing its work, and that that had to be part of the agreement, is atrocious. I don't know who the lawyer was who gave them that information, but that person should definitely be barred from ever being a lawyer again. [Laughter.] It is so basically...

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: [Inaudible.]

Mr J H DE LANGE: It is probably you and your family, yes. [Laughter.] The next issue we have to raise is that of the interchangeability of personnel between the industry and between institutions in the industry. It creates a very bad perception if one day you find a person working in the cellular industry; the next you find them on the Icasa board. After two years, they find themselves back in the industry again. One doesn't want to point fingers in this regard, but the perception it creates is very bad. Some people go much further than perceptions, but I am not going to repeat what they say about these things.

The problem is that we have to start thinking of how we create firewalls. You don't have to be a genius to know that, clearly, it is people from that industry who will be in the institutions. [Interjections.] Well, you are definitely not a genius, far from it. [Laughter.] The issue is that we have to create firewalls, and we have to create measures to make sure that there isn't inappropriate behaviour.

That brings me to conflicts of interest. I don't know how the policies were agreed to previously, but the conflict of interest that was dealt with in this industry - and it's in the legislation - basically says you can go and do what you want to. If you want to be an employee with the SABC and you want to enter into contracts for services in the SABC, all you have to do is to declare. Clearly, that policy decision is wrong.

It is wrong, and the chairperson has outlined it. People who are either board members or employed by an institution, and their close families cannot be involved in delivering services for that same entity. It is completely and utterly wrong. Merely declaring interest is completely inappropriate. We declare an interest, and we go ahead! So, of all the issues our chair raised, it is very important that this becomes part of the policy issues as well.

Then there is the issue of financial management, and others have raised it too. This is a very serious point, and I do not know how we are going to solve this issue. Two things are the problem. The one is the lack of systems. My logic tells me it should be easy to put systems into place for getting things done. However, for some reason we are just not getting it right. If you look at the problems in all the institutions...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon member, your time has expired.

Mr J H DE LANGE: Thank you very much. Can I lastly say that... [Interjections.] Are you finished?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon member, can you complete the one sentence you wanted say and then sit?

Mr J H DE LANGE: Can I just say, shame! And can I say good luck to Bafana Bafana? [Applause.]

Mr S E KHOLWANE: Chairperson, on a point of order: maybe, before you proceed,...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Sorry, we can't hear you.

Mr S E KHOLWANE: I am saying, Chair, that I need your indulgence before we proceed. We need to make a correction for the sake of the Hansard record. It was said here that the Minister appointed the corrupt Ms Zanele Hlatshwayo. The person who was in that municipality is not the person who has been appointed by the Minister. There is a similarity in the name and surname, but it is not the same person. So, I am raising this matter so that it can be correctly recorded in Hansard and not mislead the public, as the hon member has done. Thank you. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Thank you! Order! We will take note of that issue in Hansard so that such a correction can be reflected. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS


Mr S E KHOLWANE

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Chair, hon members, I'm fortunate to have limited time because several people wasted a lot of time saying sweet nothing. [Laughter.] Hon member Mazibuko, of course, has made a very big booboo. It was a very big mistake to accuse me of appointing somebody that I didn't appoint. I urge the opposition to really make sure of their facts in future so that we discuss things that exist, not things that seek to needlessly besmirch the reputation of people. I'm also happy that... [Interjections.]

I will also not respond to the issues raised by hon Nondaba because he generalised. He didn't say anything except in areas in which I also have a keen interest, for example, ensuring that the rural poor have access to information and communication technology services, ICTS. I did indicate in my speech that one of the areas in which we congratulate the SABC and Sentech for their inputs is in the provision of low-powered generation so as to make broadcasting accessible to rural areas. Kwazulu-Natal, by the way, is one of the provinces where we are pursuing this effort. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

Regarding the task team's recommendations, we have said we put the report of the task team under wraps because we were interested in solving a problem of governance which has been intractable for a very long time. There was very little or poor governance and very little financial management. I substantially addressed the issues relating to the SABC, highlighting how we have tried to turn the institution around using those recommendations. We also ensured that the new board, with the recommendations that came from the interim board, is able to get a handle on things and turn the SABC around.

The capacity that was in the task team will continue to be used by the board. I had a request indicating that they still needed to use that resource, not as the task team that existed in the past, but as individuals who have the knowledge that can help the board in turning around the SABC. I think that with the new board at Sentech we may perhaps receive a similar request, so that we can use this capacity to turn things around at both institutions.

We were not interested in witch-hunting. However, where there have been findings of wrongdoing, the Auditor-General recommended that people should be investigated and, where necessary, disciplinary action should be taken. The current SABC board is doing exactly that. So it is not as if we are sitting on these recommendations and doing nothing.

With regard to the Public Service Broadcasting Bill, we are putting issues up for discussion so that people may advise us on how we might do things differently. We have made these issues public for discussion. Also, I will forward the proposals that members are making to Cabinet. In the end, if anything like a Money Bill is the result, we won't be responsible for that. However, as Parliament we can't try to stifle debate about issues. When we discuss the Bill, members will be free to make inputs, for example, whether they feel that the Minister is trying to be overbearing or is trying to control boards. We are quite open to views that might be expressed by the public and this Parliament. Everything will come here and we will then discuss it.

Regarding comments made by hon de Lille, in my speech I said that we were reviewing those obligations because we understood that there were so many obligations that had not been carried out by the "telcos". In my report I stated that we had set up a review mechanism in the department which, among other things, resulted in the contribution we are making to the SA Police Service and other agencies for 2010 of ensuring that they have the capacity to use the cellphones that the "telcos" are going to give them.

We are really trying to close a gap that has been in existence and we have looked at such things as the deficiencies and obligations that people have not carried out. We will get to all the other ones because this is just the start. Furthermore, there is very little that we can do within the period that we have been in office. I thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon members, before you go, I have a ruling to make on behalf of hon Ndabandaba. Mr Ndabandaba indicated earlier that he will give a ruling on a point of order raised by hon Ben Turok. Prof Turok had contended that Mr van den Berg's speech was irrelevant. The presiding officer has the right in terms of the rules to direct a member who persists in irrelevance to discontinue his or her speech. Mr Ndabandaba, who is not here at this moment, indicated that he is satisfied that Mr van den Berg did not persist in irrelevance and was, therefore, not out of order.

Debate concluded.

The committee rose at 19:06

END OF TAKE


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