Hansard: Minister's Responses / Member's Statements

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 12 Oct 2009

Summary

No summary available.

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 13 October 2009 Take:

TUESDAY, 13 OCTOBER 2009

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

____________

The House met at 14:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

NOTICES OF MOTION

START OF DAY

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I wish to acknowledge the presence of Kgosana Joseph Rapetsana Ganwane Makgosi Tumagole in the gallery and the delegation from the Royal Bafokeng Kingdom, we welcome you to our Parliament. [Applause.]

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr G R MORGAN (DA): Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House–

(1) debates the potential vulnerabilities of South Africa to climate change and the steps that various government departments need to take to ensure adaptation to climate change.

I thank you.

Mr B M KOMPHELA

Mr G R MORGAN

Mr B M KOMPHELA (ANC): Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House–

(1) debates the crisis facing school sport; and

(2) should apply its mind in engaging on this crucial aspect.

I thank you.

Mr N SINGH

End of Take

Mr B M KOMPHELA

Mr N SINGH (IFP): Mr Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House–

(1) notes and debates that 16 November 2010 marks a momentous milestone for the Indian people of this country as it would be the 150th commemoration of the first arrival of Indians to South African shores in 1860;

(2) expresses gratitude to the community for their enormous contribution to the social and economic development of South Africa;

(3) further notes that South Africa has 11 official languages, but that Eastern languages are also widely spoken by communities which consist of approximately 1,5 million South Africans, and recognises that the Tamil community is the biggest linguistic group numbering over 780 000 of the present total of the South African Indian population;

(4) urges the Department of Arts and Culture to take note of the United Nations' Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation, Unesco's, report, that 6000 languages around the world face extinction;

(5) implores the South African government to recognises Tamil and other Eastern languages as official languages in South Africa; and

(6) exalts the Department of Arts and Culture to encourage support and celebrate South Africa's rich Indian culture and heritage during 2010.

I thank you.

The SPEAKER: Hon members, I am still on notices of motion, not motions without notice.

Ms D ROBINSON

End of Take

Mr N SINGH

Ms D ROBINSON (DA): Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Ho9use I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House–

(1) debates the devastating multilayered effect the high prevalence of and mortality rate related to breast cancer has to come up with possible solutions to enhance awareness campaigns and early detection strategies surrounding this insidious disease that affect one in 29 women in South Africa.

Thank you.

Mr M WATERS

End of Take

Ms D ROBINSON

Mr M WATERS (DA): Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House–

(1) debates the 2008 Antenatal Clinic Survey.

Ms D A SCHÄFER

End of Take

Mr M WATERS

Ms D A SCHÄFER (DA): Mr Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House–

(1) debates the 16 Days of Activism campaign against gender-based

violence and child abuse to run from 25 November to 10 December and come up with approaches to ensure the biggest possible positive impact resulting from this campaign.

Mr L SUKA

End of Take

Ms D A SCHÄFER

Mr L SUKA (ANC): Mr Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House-

(1) debates the funding of sport in South Africa with specific reference to the role of the National Lottery.

Thank you.

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

End of Take

NOTICES OF MOTION

PRESIDENT BARRACK OBAMA WINS THE NOBLE PEACE PRIZE

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House-

(1) notes that on Friday, 9 October 2009, United States President Barrack Obama was awarded the 2009 Noble Peace Prize;

(2) further notes that President Obama, whose nomination was received only two weeks after he took office, was chosen from amongst a record of 205 nominations for this prize and became only the third incumbent US President and fourth US head of state to win this prestigious prize;

(3) recognises that President Obama received the Noble Peace Prize for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between people, including his ongoing efforts to reach out to the Muslim world and his attempt to curb the proliferation of nuclear weapons;

(4) further recognises that Alfred Nobel stipulated in this will that the Noble Peace Prize should only be awarded to a person who has done the most or the best work for fraternity between the nations and the abolition or reduction of standing armies and the formation and spreading of peace congresses;

(5) acknowledges that President Obama's vision of and dedicated to work towards a world without nuclear weapons is an honourable undertaking that we should all value and be committed to; and

(6) congratulates President Obama on this rare and exceptional achievement.

Agreed to.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION

THE ROYAL BAFOKENG VISIT PARLIAMENT

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speker, hon Deputy President , I move without notice:

That House-

(1) notes the presence of the delegation of the Royal Bafokeng Kingdom in our midst as part of a two-day visit to our Parliament;

(2) further notes that the Royal Bafokeng Administration manages service delivery and economic development in the community and the purpose of this week's visit is to explore best practise models on institutional governance that can enhance service delivery as well as to familiarise themselves with parliamentary processes;

(3) acknowledges the Royal Bafokeng's contribution towards restoring the dignity of the institution of traditional leadership in our country, enhancing its respectability and positioning it to play a meaningful role in economic development in the rural areas.

[Applause.]

Agreed to.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION

End of Take

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

HINDUS AROUND THE WORLD CELEBRATING DIWALI

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House-

(1) notes that on 17 October Hindus worldwide will be celebrating one of the biggest events on the Hindu calendar, Diwali, the festival of lights;

(2) further, notes that Diwali marks the beginning of the Hindu New Year and is celebrated to promote and cherish peace, harmony and the triumph of light over darkness;

(3) recognises that the festival of Diwali symbolises the reaffirmation of hope, calls for a renewed commitment to friendship and goodwill and is a celebration of all the myriad joys of life;

(4) wishes all Hindus a happy and prosperous new year; and

(5) extents our best wishes to this important community in our society over this auspicious period.

[Applause.]

Agreed to.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

End of Take

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION

COUNTRIES OBSERVE WORLD TEACHERS' DAY

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House–

(1) notes that on 5 October 2009 South Africa joined other countries around the world to observe World Teachers' Day, honouring the role and importance of teachers in our society;

(2) acknowledges the critical role teachers play in the development of our society through the inculcation in our children of the values enshrined in our Constitution and in particular ubuntu-botho, values and principles;

(3) recognises the key role of the Department of Education and provincial education departments in improving the professional development of our educators and restoring the dignity of teaching as a profession;

(4) welcomes the latest initiative by the Department of Education to implement a new initiative from 2010 that will reduce the many administrative burdens on teachers, allowing them to devote more time to teaching as further proof of its commitment to enhance the professional status of our educators;

(5) further welcomes the initiatives of President Jacob Zuma to meet with school principals as an act of decisive leadership shown by a leader who genuinely cares about the future of our children, who are our own future; and

(6) declares our support to the thousands of educators in our public and private schools who continue to carry out their duties with dignity and commitment, despite the difficult circumstances under which many of them work.

Agreed to.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

End of Take

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

CELEBRATING WORLD HABITAT DAY

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House notes-

(1) that on Monday, 5 October 2009, countries around the world, including South Africa, observed World Habitat Day, under the theme "Planning our Urban Future";

(2) further notes that the purpose of this annual celebration is to reflect on the state of towns and cities and their capacity to meet their citizen's social, economic, spiritual and moral needs;

(3) acknowledges the Habitat Scroll of Honour Award bestowed by the United Nations Agency for Human Settlements on Gauteng for their outstanding efforts in upgrading housing, social and fiscal infrastructure for the people of Alexandra through the Alexandra Township Renewal Project;

(4) further acknowledges that the Habitat Scroll of Honour Award is the most prestigious human settlements award in the world and its aim is to acknowledge initiatives which have made outstanding contributions in areas such as shelter provision, highlighting the plight of the homeless and developing and improving human settlement and the quality of urban life; and

(5) commends the Gauteng Department of Local Government and Human Settlements on their achievement.

I thank you. [Applause.]

Agreed to.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

End of Take

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

GLOBAL EDUCATION CAMPAIGN

(Member's Statement)

Ms N GINA (ANC): Speaker, the ANC-led government believes that everyone has a right to basic education, including adult education. Hence, on Tuesday, 6 October 2009, President Jacob Zuma, on behalf of South Africa, joined world leaders in supporting the global campaign contributing to the promotion of education for all children.

President Zuma said that it was sad that the fundamental right to education was still denied to millions of children. The number one goal, Education for All, is a campaign meant to ensure that 75 million children not in schools across the globe, half of whom live in Africa, get access to classrooms, teachers and proper education.

The campaign is also aimed at ensuring that the 2010 Fifa World Cup leaves a lasting legacy in education. Heads of state agreed to spending the following year working towards a breakthrough in global education, funding and making education a legacy of the 2010 Fifa World Cup in Africa and poor regions around the world.

The ANC-led government remains committed to insuring that every child receives proper education, which is one of the five main key priorities of the ANC-led government for the next five-year period. Thank you.

Mr H C SCHMIDT

End of Take

Ms N GINA

MINISTERIAL DISCRETION IN MINING INDUSTRY

(Member's Statement)

Mr H C SCHMIDT (DA): Speaker, South Africa should, in the interest of its mining sector, remove excessive ministerial discretion from its mining laws. Owing to South Africa's laws, the country is internationally perceived as an uncertain investment destination.

The International Fraser Institute research survey has ranked South Africa 49th out of 79 mining jurisdictions on its policy potential index, down from position 27 in 2002. The only African countries that ranked lower than South Africa were the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC in 63rd place and Zimbabwe in the 65th place.

From an African perspective, Botswana and Ghana have removed all ministerial discretion in that if licence requirements are met the licence is awarded without the application of further discretion. In Nigeria the mining industry has access to a mining cadastre to ensure a more open and transparent process.

As stated by a member of the International Bar Association at a resent mining indaba held in Madrid, the opportunity lost to South Africa was huge, causing countries less important from a mining perspective to develop their mining sector at a faster rate than South Africa.

While current mining legislations concerned have opened up South Africa's mining sector and promoted Black Economic Empowerment, BEE, the wide administrative discretion as well as uncertainty in a related framework discouraged investment, which resulted in BEE opportunities being lost. Black Economic Empowerment has benefited only a small group of elite, displaying aspects of crony capitalism.

We need to address urgently legal requirements giving rise to this perception. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr D A KGANARE

End of Take

Mr H C SCHMIDT

CONDUCT OF MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS

(Member's Statement)

Mr D A KGANARE (Cope): Speaker, this House has a right to know if:

The hon Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs had deliberately misled the South African people by announcing that arrangements had been made with the Independent Electoral Commission for them, the residents of Moutse, to vote in a referendum.

This is exactly how the South African Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, reported the hon Minister in its news broadcast on 28 September 2009. The report went on to say that, according to the hon Minister, the voters' roll from the April elections would be used.

Cope asked if the hon Minister deliberately lied to the people of South Africa. Two days later, on 30 September 2009, the hon Minister was once again quoted on SABC making a very baffling statement that the process is not a referendum, and that the people's choice would have an impact on the Cabinet's decision.

It is inconceivable that the Independent Electoral Commission could have conducted anything other than a proper referendum. For some reason, the IEC was prevented from announcing the results. There is prima facie evidence that the hon Minister knowingly misled the country.

Under the circumstances he should do the honourable thing and resign. Failure on his part to do so will require the President to fire him from his post if the President really supports good governance. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: There will of course be an opportunity for ministerial responses.

Mr B M KOMPHELA

End of Take

Mr D A KGANARE

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF ATHLETICS FEDERATIONS TO RELEASE RESULTS OF GENDER TESTING ON CASTER SEMENYA

(Member's Statement)

Mr B M KOMPHELA (ANC): Speaker, the ANC rejects, with contempt, the latest move by the ... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon members on my right, can you please reduce the volume, or better still, turn it off.

Mr B M KOMPHELA (ANC): ... International Association of Athletics Federations, IAAF, to formulate a definition of a female. This is the latest attempt in sustaining the degrading and humiliating treatment the world's women 800m champion, Caster Semenya, has been subjected to.

The IAAF is on record saying that nowhere in the world of sports does such a definition exist. In fact, international sports federations for cricket, rugby, tennis and soccer, do not define their athletes along these line. Furthermore, the IAAF stated that the formulation of such a definition will take more than a year to finalise.

The question is, where does this leave Custer Semenya, after a cloud of suspicion has been place on her by the IAAF? The ANC, therefore, calls on the IAAF to extend an unconditional apology to the people of South Africa, the government, and Caster Semenya for their despicable treatment and handling of this matter.

If the IAAF fails to do so, then we are not going to welcome this matter on the agenda any longer. Furthermore, the IAAF must withdraw, with immediate effect, any attempt to release the so-called results for gender testing. [Time expired.]

Mr V B NDLOVU

End of Take

Mr B M KOMPHELA

SECURITY AGENCIES MUST INDICATE READINESS TO AVERT TERRORIST ATTACKS ON HOME SOIL

(Member's Statement)

Mr V B NDLOVU (IFP): Speaker, the IFP finds these comments by Hussein Solomon alarming, not only because of the National Intelligence Agency, NIA, still spying on the so-called enemies, political parties not aligned to the ruling party and journalists uncovering ruling party secrets, but because there has been evidence of a real credible terrorist threat, which is suspected to have led to the closure of the United States of America's government facilities last month and this morning.

What is even more perturbing is that the International Police Agency, Interpol, has allegedly warned the SA Intelligence Service about the potential threat, but it seems that the South African government is not taking any advice or the threat seriously.

While we have received reassurance from the SAPS that the 2010 Fifa World Cup will be a success from a security perspective, the IFP believes that government owes the public answers as to why an Interpol warning of a possible terrorist threat has seemingly been ignored.

Furthermore, we need assurance that NIA and the newly established SA Secret Service, Sass, have the capacity and expertise to deal with a potential terrorist threat. The IFP will also approach the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence to request an urgent briefing by the new Director-General of NIA, Lizo Gibson Njenje, as well as the leader of the SA Secret Service, Mo Shaik, on South Africa's readiness to avert a potential terrorist attack on home soil. Somlomo.

Mr J J MC GLUWA (ID)

End of Take

Mr V B NDLOVU (IFP)

CALL FOR MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS TO RELEASE FORENSIC AUDIT REPORT ON TENDER PROCESS FOR THE "WHO AM I" ONLINE PROJECT

(Member's Statement)

Mr J J MC GLUWA (ID): Speaker, the Independent Democrats calls upon Home Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma to release the forensic audit report on the tender process for the R2,5 billion "Who am I" online project. The cost of the project, which was awarded to a consortium headed by GijimaAst in October 2007, has since jumped from R1,9 billion to R2,5 billion. The Auditor-General's report to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs last year proves there was a high possibility that there were irregularities in the allocation of the tender.

One year later we have still not heard anything about the outcome of the forensic audit, and I find it very difficult to believe that it could take more than one year to uncover the truth. The Smart Card tender is yet another clinical example of this. The "Who am I" online project has the potential to make the department's process faster and reduce corruption. The longer the Minister and the department remain silent, the more obvious it becomes that there is a cover up. I thank you.

Dr S M PILLAY (ANC)

End of Take

Mr J J MC GLUWA (ID)

ANC COMMENDS PETROSA AND COEGA DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION ON SIGNING OF MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING

(Member's Statement)

Dr S M PILLAY (ANC): Speaker, as a mass-based organisation that is rooted among its people, reaching into every corner of this land, the African National Congress has the capacity and the capability to bring all stakeholders together to make them work together to make change happen faster.

This ANC-led government welcomes the signing, on Tuesday, 6 October 2009, of the memorandum of understanding between Coega Development Corporation and PetroSA. This memorandum of understanding will lead to the development of a new oil refinery in the deep water port of Coega, and it will be a stimulus and a catalyst for future change and future development in the Eastern Cape.

This refinery will inject not millions but billions of rands, and it will create 27 500 jobs during the construction phase and 18 500 permanent jobs, direct and indirect, and induced jobs during its operational phase. The planned refinery will be a major economic boost to the Eastern Cape. It will help with diversification in an economy that is totally dependent on the motor industry.

It will result in the reskilling of our people, the upskilling of our artisans and a huge economic boost for the area. This further justifies the establishment of the Coega port. Many sceptics were worried that the investment might become a white elephant.

The ANC-led government commends PetroSA and the Coega Development Corporation for the signing of this memorandum of understanding and hope that they will work speedily through conditions towards the establishment of this port, including the environmental assessment. Thank you. [Applause.]

Rev K R J MESHOE

End of Take

Dr S M PILLAY (ANC)

CALL ON MINISTER TO INVESTIGATE RECKLESS SHOOTING BY POLICE ON UNARMED CIVILIANS

(Member's Statement)

Rev K R J MESHOE: Speaker, the ACDP regrets the unnecessary loss of lives at the hands of the police. We want to express our condolences to the Kekana family at the loss of their daughter, Olga, who was allegedly mistakenly shot dead by the police. We also wish the other passengers who were wounded a speedy recovery.

While the ACDP supports the right of the police to use fire power when confronted by armed criminals and when their lives are in danger, we do not support recklessness or a trigger-happy attitude. It is wrong for the police to shoot to kill unarmed civilians who are not threatening them. There is no excuse to fire 13 gunshots at people who are not shooting back or resisting arrest.

We call on the Minister to investigate claims by the South African Air Force pilot, Captain Simon Mathibela, that, in spite of his attempts to wave his military document to stop the attack, the police allegedly continued firing and that, after shooting them, the police stopped for few seconds and then left the occupants to die. We further call on the Minister to ensure that the police are properly trained in target shooting so that they will be able to hit tyres and not unarmed passengers. Thank you.

Ms C N Z ZIKALALA

End of Take

Rev K R J MESHOE

SERVICE DELIVERY IN STANDERTON

(Member's Statement)

Ms C N Z ZIKALALA (IFP): Hon Speaker, the IFP is extremely concerned by the recent shocking images of service delivery unrest that have erupted in Standerton. Over the past years there have been many violent protests and this trend seems to be growing. These acts of intense lawlessness by South Africa's poorest citizens are potentially very damaging to society and could, for instance, be extremely embarrassing during 2010.

Residents in Standerton have alleged that they are frustrated by the failure of the province to act on a forensic report showing fraud, corruption and maladministration within the local council. We are therefore asking all relevant authorities to listen carefully to the voices of the poor and accordingly address the legitimate concerns of the protesters. This means fewer PowerPoint presentations and more community meetings. The onus will always be on the side of government to prove that it has improved the pace of service delivery and that it has involved the masses in the decision-making that will affect their lives. I thank you.

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA

End of Take

Ms C N Z ZIKALALA

PUBLIC TRANSPORT SERVICES

(Member's Statement)

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA (ANC): Hon Speaker, the ANC-led government believes in forming partnerships with relevant stakeholders in order to promote safe and affordable public transport as a social service.

On Wednesday, 30 September 2009, emerging taxi operators received a major breakthrough when banking group Absa and the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, announced a R300 million deal to boost the industry. Absa has undertaken to provide money to fund emerging taxi operators and black entrepreneurs wishing to enter this highly competitive industry. The arrangement will also allow taxi operators to scrap their old taxis in favour of legal and compliant minibus taxis.

The ANC supports this initiative and sees it as part and parcel of accelerating the implementation of the Taxi Recapitalisation Project, which is about the improvement of the quality, safety and sustainability of this crucial component of public transport. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr P J C PRETORIUS

End of Take

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA

AGRI SA'S ANNUAL CONGRESS

(Member's Statement)

Mr P J C PRETORIUS (DA): Mr Speaker, Agri SA held its annual congress in Johannesburg last week. Agriculture is a huge industry in South Africa contributing 3% to South Africa's gross domestic product, GDP. It is estimated that up to 8,5 million people are directly or indirectly dependent on agriculture for employment and income.

A central theme that ran through discussions was the absolute commitment of the commercial farming community to provide sufficient food for our people. In order to do that, farmers need the support of government in many respects. Various constraints to realising the goal of food security were however highlighted. Uncertainty of tenure as a result of chaotic land redistribution, land claims, problems with water licensing, high input costs, cheap imports and stock theft were, inter alia, highlighted.

Afrikaans:

Die een kritieke en onverskoonbare belemmering vir boere en plaasbewoners is die aanvalle en moorde op ons plase. Dis haas onmoontlik om betroubare regeringstatistiek in die hande te kry, maar volgens Agri SA se eie statistiek is daar elke maand minstens 60 plaasaanvalle en sterf minstens 10 mense in daardie aanvalle. Dit gebeur op die wreedaardigste maniere denkbaar. Die DA wil die regering van ons volle samewerking verseker in enige sinvolle poging om landelike veiligheid te verbeter.

Ter afsluiting wil ek sê dat die kongres hoë waardering gehad het vir die bydrae en gesindheid van agb Minister Joemat-Pettersson en dat kommersiële landbou vir 'n slag opgewonde is oor opbouende samewerking met die regering. Die DA bedank haar vir daardie gesindheid en wil haar verseker dat sy op ons ondersteuning kan staatmaak as sy voortgaan om landbou pragmaties te bestuur, eerder as ideologies polities, soos die geval voorheen was en wat die bedryf groot skade berokken het. Ek dank u. [Applous.]

Mr M E GEORGE

End of Take

Mr P J C PRETORIUS

CALL FOR POLICE TO SHOOT TO KILL

(Member's Statement)

Mr M E GEORGE (Cope): Hon Speaker, the shoot-to-kill encouragement to police began by hon Susan Shabangu during her stint as the Deputy Minister of Safety and Security has claimed its first innocent victim. The Minister of Police and the hon President must also fully share in the blame as they have repeated this irresponsible call for police to shoot to kill.

A woman was killed and two others were wounded in Mabopane on Sunday when members of the flying squad shot at a car which they alleged did not stop when ordered to do so. The President and his Minsters are in this instance usurping the right of Parliament to make law. They are also actively inciting the police to ignore section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act and to murder at their discretion.

Citizens harassed and tormented by criminals might understandably think that government is on the right path here. This is not so. This is only irresponsible chauvinism. It is always through small and seemingly innocuous steps that the subversion of the Constitution begins. The ANC is putting our country in a slippery slope to perdition. The Cope most definitely demands action against criminals, but only through legal means. The executive cannot make its own laws. This will lead to a constitutional crisis. We cannot afford that, and we must not allow it.

Finally, we wish to extend our heartfelt condolences to the next of kin of the slain woman. This House must hold government accountable for encouraging members of the police to act outside the Constitution and the law. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms P TSHWETE

End of Take

Mr M E GEORGE

ANTIRETROVIRAL THERAPY TREATMENT

(Member's Statement)

Ms P TSHWETE (ANC): Speaker, the ANC-led government is confident that through collective action we will be able to achieve the target we set to reduce the rate of new HIV infections by 50% and expand access to appropriate treatment, care and support to 80% of all HIV-positive people by 2011. As such, a new international report released on Wednesday, 30September 2009, by the World Health Organisation, the United Nations Children's Fund and the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV and Aids has indicated that South Africa's HIV and Aids programmes are starting to show major signs of advancement in the area of antiretroviral treatment.

The report said one of the most notable achievements made is that the number of patients undergoing antiretroviral therapy, ART, has almost doubled between 2007 and 2008. It is further noted that the prevention of mother to child transmission, PMTCT, services were available to over 50% of those in need.

The ANC-led government is encouraged by recent progress made and will continue to strengthen the nationwide partnership against HIV and Aids and expand access to a comprehensive programme of treatment and care in public health facilities. I thank you.

Mr M WATERS

Ms P TSHWETE

INSUFFICIENT SHOOTING PRACTICE PROVIDED FOR MEMBERS OF POLICE

(Member's Statement)

Mr M WATERS (DA): Speaker, a reply to a parliamentary question regarding the lack of shooting practice received by police members stationed at police stations throughout my constituency of Kempton Park, Edenvale is alarming. According to the Minister of Police, the minimum shooting practice required for police members is once a year for low risk category members and at least two shooting practices per year for medium risk category members.

However, last year only 23% of all police members received firearm shooting practice, and this year the figure is only a dismal 25%. This means that only one in four police members received the minimum required training. In April 2008 the then Deputy Minister of Police, Susan Shabangu, urged police officers to shoot to kill, and the current National Police Commissioner has echoed the same sentiments, yet the ANC government dismally fails to ensure that police officers can actually shoot accurately. What hypocrites!

When 75% of the SAPS members are not undergoing firearm shooting practice and are failing to meet the SAPS' own minimum standards, we have trigger-happy politicians encouraging police members to shoot to kill. These politicians are not only paying lip service to the public's emotions, but are failing our citizens, especially our men and women in blue, whose lives are being endangered as this ANC government places pressure on them to shoot to kill, yet fails to ensure that our police officers are actually trained to shoot. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr P MATHEBE

End of Take

Mr M WATERS

WATER INDABA

(Member's Statement)

Mr P MATHEBE (ANC): Speaker, the ANC-led government is deeply concerned about the impact of climate change on South Africa; more accurately the severe predictions on the reduction in rainfall and increase in droughts on the western side of the country.

The government feels that this will exacerbate water scarcity and have potentially devastating effects on agricultural production as well as on the survival of the Cape's floral kingdom and our country's priceless biodiversity. Mpumalanga is already faced with vast water-related challenges such as pollution and lack of access to water resources by certain communities. As a result, last Tuesday, 6 October 2009, the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs conducted a water indaba in Nelspruit with the purpose of tackling the immediate and long-term water problems affecting that province and to come up with a detailed action plan that would speed up the process of service delivery in the province.

Another important purpose of that water indaba was to get a comprehensive understanding of the challenges facing water supply and water management in the country so as to come up with an integrated approach towards service delivery; hence the theme "Working together for water security and poverty alleviation".

The ANC-led government will continue to proactively build capacity and develop a comprehensive strategy to adapt to the inevitable impacts of climate change, including the roll out of basic services, infrastructure planning, agricultural diversity and water resource management. I thank you. [Applause.]

MINISTERS' RESPONSES

End of Take

Mr P MATHEBE

GLOBAL EDUCATION CAMPAIGN

(Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Speaker, I just want to respond to and agree with the statement made by the hon member about the importance of education and the commitment of our President and government to decent education for all.

Last week I was part of a government delegation to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation, Unesco, and in our main message there we, amongst other things, called for the world to support our "One goal" campaign during the 2010 World Cup in support of education, we also welcomed Unesco's very important commitment to promoting education as a public common good in which government must play a leading role, working together with other important stakeholders.

I also wish to underline the statement made by the President at the United Nations General Assembly that we must not use the current recession to renege on our social commitments and to that effect our own government has committed itself that, despite the challenges of the recession, we want to maintain our commitment to the resources that must be put into education, because, in our view, investment in education, as Unesco also says, is not a deduction from development, but, instead, a necessary condition for building and developing a more just global economic order. Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING

PUBLIC TRANSPORT SERVICES

(Minister's Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Speaker, I would like to thank my comrades from the ANC branches who reminded us that October is transport month, and who then also dealt with the matter of the Absa R300 million contribution to the taxi industry. You see, that ... no, no! Let me not go there. [Laughter.]

The SPEAKER: Continue, hon Deputy Minister. Hon members, please allow the Deputy Minister to proceed with his reply.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: No, no! They can raise whatever issue they like.

This government is committed to improving public transport. This is a big challenge and at the heart of it is indeed the transformation of the minibus sector - transport for the majority of

South Africans. Unlike many of their constituents, the majority of our constituents depend on public transport for some kind of mobility. [Interjections.] Less than 50% of South African households have any access whatsoever to vehicles and private cars. Therefore, we need to understand the importance of the month of October and the importance of popularising public transport.

We are making significant progress - this is also important to mention. What has happened in recent weeks, many will remember that there were threats against the Bus Rapid Transit, the Rea Vaya system, in Johannesburg from the minibus sector. We have managed to launch that; the City of Cape Town is also trying to launch the Bus Rapid Transit, BRT, and will depend on our support as the ANC in order to succeed in that respect. They will also depend on the ANC government in order to succeed in dealing with the minibus sector, which is a very complicated sector.

Our approach is not to abolish the minibus sector. It is part and parcel of going forward, but at the same time, it has to transform. I think that is the key message from the ANC government on the occasion of the October public transport month. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE

End of Take

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT

CALL FOR POLICE TO SHOOT TO KILL

INSUFFICIENT SHOOTING PRACTICE PROVIDED FOR MEMBERS OF POLICE

CALL ON MINISTER TO INVESTIGATE RECKLESS SHOOTING BY POLICE ON UNARMED CIVILIANS

(Minister's Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: Speaker, firstly, I want to deal with the instruction to shoot-to-kill. This buzz phrase has been quite attractive and has been used by many people who have not sought to engage with the substance of it. The idea is not to shoot to kill recklessly, but to shoot to kill armed and dangerous criminals in defence of the innocent.

Criminals have been merciless in killing innocent people and innocent policemen. Last year, we lost 105 policemen and women in combat, in defence of the innocent. In the Western Cape we have lost two unarmed community policing forum, CPF, members. We have also lost a police captain, and throughout all this we have not heard people shouting at the top of their voices. All that we hear is that crime is politically convenient for some people. We can only win the war against crime if we act in unity.

I agree with the member who has said that the police need training and that they need to sharpen their shooting skills. However, it's not like you are usurping the Constitution and running a banana republic. [Interjections.]

We are amending the law to protect the police and the innocent people of South Africa by ensuring that we uphold our slogan "to serve and protect" the innocent people of South Africa. No amount of petty politicking or fabrication and distortion will derail us from the mission of winning the war against crime. [Applause.] Crime knows no colour and no political affiliation, and some people have used it for political reasons.

Lastly, in cases where people have been put in harm's way and where there have been allegations of police brutality, the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, has been there to carry out full investigations. That will happen today and tomorrow, and any other time when innocent people die in the process of the police executing their mission. [Time expired.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HEALTH

End of Take

The MINISTER OF POLICE

CALL ON MINISTER TO INVESTIGATE RECKLESS SHOOTING BY POLICE ON UNARMED CIVILIANS

INSUFFICIENT SHOOTING PRACTICE PROVIDED FOR MEMBERS OF POLICE

CALL FOR POLICE TO SHOOT TO KILL

(Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Speaker, as a follow-up on what the Deputy Minister of Safety and Security has said, I just hope the House has actually noticed the difference between what was said by the two men who have spoken here. The leader of the ACDP, Rev Meshoe, first and foremost, was concerned and worried about the life that has been lost. He started off by expressing condolences and making a constructive proposal about police training, as the Deputy Minister has said. The hon member from Cope, "Editor" George ... [Interjections.] ... in cold-blooded, unashamed opportunism started attacking the President, accusing him of destroying the Constitution. [Interjections.] At the end of his speech, he remembered that he was a human being and finally threw in condolences, as an afterthought. So, his aim was to attack the President.

Let me repeat the fact that the President clearly said that they must shoot a thug who points a gun at the police. He never beat about the bush; he was referring to a thug pointing a gun at the police. If one policeman got careless, that does not justify what hon George said. He deliberately forgot ... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon members, please allow the speaker to be heard.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Yes, they cannot swallow the fact that they have been exposed for what they are. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon member, continue.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Another policeman lost his life when he was shot dead trying to shout to a thug to drop his gun; he said nothing about it. We are interested in health. The Lancet report shows that we are going through a pandemic of violence perpetrated by these thugs, which the system can no longer tolerate. I want these people to be realistic; the President was referring to a thug that is pointing a gun, because when you produce a gun, your intention is to shoot. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES

The MINISTER OF HEALTH

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF ATHLETICS FEDERATIONS TO RELEASE RESULTS OF GENDER TESTING ON CASTER SEMENYA

(Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Hon Speaker, I want to comment on the Semenya debacle that continues to haunt all of us as South Africans. I just think that the time has come for all of us to actually take responsibility for what happened to that young girl who was born a girl and whose birth certificate indicates that she is a girl. All of us should embrace and respect the fact that she is a girl.

I would like to call on all South Africans to provide all the support required by this young lady. We should realise that Semenya has undergone a very traumatic experience, one that none of us would wish on any of our children. Therefore, the best we can do for Semenya, rather than continuing with what is written in the media and the attacks against one another, is to rally our forces and provide support to her.

The last matter applies to the sporting fraternity; all those who want to determine the future of our people; and all structures, including the sporting structure. We should continue to engage on these matters, so that we can avoid a repetition of what happened to that young girl. I thank you. [Applause.]

The House adjourned at 14:55.

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