Hansard: Minister’s Responses / Members 's Statements
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 21 Feb 2008
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Thursday, 21 February 2008
START OF DAY
THURSDAY, 21 FEBRUARY 2008
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
______________________________
The House met at 14:01.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
END OF TAKE
START OF DAY
NOTICES OF MOTION
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I intend to move the following motion:
That the House–
Debates the recent appointment of the Speaker of the National Assembly, Baleka Mbete, as Chairperson of both the ANC and the ANC political committee, and the effect this will have on her ability to act with the impartiality that is required of the Speaker of Parliament.
[Interjections.]
Mrs C DUDLEY
END OF TAKE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Speaker, on behalf of the ACDP, I give notice that I shall move:
That the House–
(1) calls on the Minister of Health to lobby at the United Nations for the World Health Organisation to recover its independence from the International Atomic Energy Agency, especially in the area of ionising radiation;
(2) notes that, in the past, the WHO has been paralysed in its struggle against passive smoking because it has been infiltrated by the tobacco lobby;
(3) in the same way, particularly in threats to health from ionising radiation, the WHO is paralysed by the nuclear body which is incomparably more powerful;
(4) is horrified by the hundreds of studies in the Ukraine, Belarus and the Russian Federation, which have established that there has been a significant rise in all types of cancer, causing thousands of deaths, an increase in infant mortality, spontaneous abortions, deformities and genetic anomalies ...
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, on a point of order ...
The SPEAKER: What is your point of order, Deputy Chief Whip?
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, the convention has arisen here, and I think it is generally respected by all parties, that when we give notice of a motion, it is a brief, succinct statement on the topic that we want to have debated. This is actually an abuse of that process – to smuggle in a motion or to actually make an extra statement. Could we appeal that we don't do that.
The SPEAKER: Hon Dudley, please can you rethink your statement; it sounds more like a statement actually.
Mrs C DUDLEY: Calling on the House?
The SPEAKER: Hon Dudley, just go and look at reformulating and resubmission at the right time through the right mechanism.
Mr D V BLOEM: Speaker, I am rising on a point of order on the first statement by the Chief Whip of the Opposition.
Speaker, is there is anything wrong in you, as a member of the ANC, being elected by the ANC to be ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Bloem, you are now debating the issue. I really don't want ...
Mr D V BLOEM: I think it's out of order, Chairperson. [Laughter.]
Mr W P DOMAN
END OF TAKE
The SPEAKER
Mr W P DOMAN: Thank you, Speaker. I hereby give notice that I intend moving the following motion:
That the House-
(1) debates the unrest in a number of municipalities across the country owing to these municipalities' failure to deliver basic services;
(2) and to consider possible solutions to the problem.
Mr G G BOINAMO
END OF TAKE
Mr W P DOMAN
Mr G G BOINAMO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I intend moving the following motion:
That the House-
(1) debates the failure of the Department of Education to provide proper infrastructure to schools across the country, in light of the recent tragedy that occurred at the Hlalanikahle Primary School in Mpumlanga, at which eight learners fell into a pit toilet in the first week of the school term and two died instantly; and
(2) debates possible solutions to this problem.
Mr C M LOWE
END OF TAKE
Mr G G BOINAMO
Mr C M LOWE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move, on behalf of the DA, the following:
That the House debates the current situation in the Department of Home Affairs and the work of the strategic intervention team designed to turn around the department.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
/AKJ / END OF TAKE
Mr C M LOWE
AWARDING OF 2008 LAUREUS WORLD TEAM OF THE YEAR AWARD TO SPRINGBOKS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:
[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]
I thank you. [Applause.]
Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
END OF TAKE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
21 FEBRUARY, INTERNATIONAL MOTHER LANGUAGE DAY
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:
[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]
I thank you.
Agreed to.
Mr E T XOLO
END OF TAKE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
AMAZWI OKUZWELANA NOMNDENI KA TEBOHO
(Member's Statement)
IsiZulu:
Mnu E T XOLO (ANC): Ukhongolose uthanda ukuzwakalisa ukudabuka okukhulu akwedlulisela emndenini wakwa Ndlovu ngokwedlula emhlabeni kwendodana yabo uTeboho obaziwa kakhulu kubathandi bomculo we kwaito ngokuthi uZombo. UTeboho ube nomnikelo omkhulu awenzileyo ukukhulisa umculo we kwaito waze waba nokwamukeleka ezweni. Kwathi ekupheleni kweminyaka ye nkulungwane namakhulu ayisishiyagalolunye namashumi ayisishiyagalolunye, ikhono emculweni wekwaito lase liphezulu kakhulu. UTeboho ungomunye wabantu abasha base Ningizimu ne Afrika owayenekhono nesiphiwo okwathi umculo wakhe waba nomnikelo omkhulu ekuhlanganiseni izinhlanga ezahlukeneyo kwezomculo, ubuciko ezweni lethu. Ngale sikhathi wayecula enkundleni ebambisene no Arthur Mafokate kanye neqembu elalibizwa I Abashante. Ukufa kube yisela elebe leli qhawe ebelinekhono le golide futhi kwavula isikhala esikhulu kubathandi bo mculo we kwaito. Sithi emndenini wakhe kanye nabathandi bomculo we kwaito akwehlanga lungehli, balale ngenxeba. Sengathi umpefumulo wakhe ungamukeleka ngokuthula emhlabathini wasebaohumula. Ngiyabonga Somlomo. [ihlombe.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OFFICIAL OPPOSITION
END OF TAKE
Mr E T XOLO
ANC WITHDRAWS CHANCELLOR HOUSE FROM HITACHI AFRICA
(Member's Statement)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OFFICIAL OPPOSITION (DA): Madam Speaker, the assurances given to Parliament this week by Eskom's CEO Jacob Maroga and Public Enterprises Minister Alec Erwin about the probity of ANC Chancellor House's estimated R5,8 billion stake in the construction of two new Eskom power stations should be of little comfort to the South African taxpayer.
The fact remains that this deal constitutes a glaring conflict of interest which, in the interests of good corporate governance, should never have been allowed to go ahead, especially given that the Chairman of Eskom, Valli Moosa, is also a member of the ANC's fund-raising committee.
The impression of wrongdoing is further underscored by the failure to put the second of these deals out to tender. This raises serious questions about whether due diligence and sound corporate governance procedures were circumvented to benefit the ruling party. The ANC's subsequent decision to withdraw the ANC from these multibillion-rand contracts with Eskom does not absolve the ruling party from any wrongdoing either. Given that their stake is worth approximately R5,8 billion, withdrawing Chancellor House now from Hitachi Africa could quite simply be viewed as the ANC cashing in early and seeing the party benefit to the tune of hundreds of millions of rand.
The only way for the ANC to dispel the perception of any kind of wrongdoing is for it to come clean on the exact amount it will benefit from disinvesting from these deals, as well as giving the assurances that any profits made will be ploughed back into South Africa in the form of charitable donations. I thank you.
Mrs S A SEATON
END OF TAKE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
CALL FOR HEALTH PRACTITIONERS TO EMBARK ON COLLECTIVE COURSE OF ACTION
(Member's Statement)
Mrs S A SEATON (IFP): Madam Speaker, the appalling conditions of our public health care facilities are sufficient cause to drive health practitioners away from the public sector.
However, the IFP believes that "packing for Perth" has its own set of problems and is not the solution. We urge the medical practitioners to make a difference in South Africa with a collective, concerted course of action. Make more use of your collective voice before resorting to your legs. Registered practitioners and academics should petition the Minister; lobby MPs; align themselves with opposition parties that support freedom of choice; participate in local community forums; hold hospital managers, medical boards and health councils and representatives accountable, and not accept the current situation with politically correct silence.
If the disenchanted health professionals use legal mechanisms of protest, and do so loudly and energetically, they could surprise themselves at the scope for a positive protest in South Africa. Thank you.
Ms M V MERUTI
END OF TAKE
Mrs S A SEATON
ASSAULT ON NWABISA NGCUKANA
(Member's Statement)
Ms M V MERUTI (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC expresses its shock and outrage at the sexual harassment and assault of Nwabisa Ngcukana who had her clothes allegedly torn off by taxi drivers at the Noord Street taxi rank in Johannesburg.
Nwabisa was reportedly groped in her private parts, had alcohol poured on her head and was called names for wearing a miniskirt in public. The ANC wishes to remind those involved in this brutal attack that the Constitution and our laws criminalise this type of behaviour and entrench the right to both gender equality, freedom and security of the person. This disgraceful episode deserves the condemnation of all South Africans.
We call on the SA Police Service to work tirelessly to bring the culprits to book. We believe that Nwabisa needs a lot of support in pressing criminal charges against her attackers and in laying a claim for damages against them. We call upon all the people, including taxi associations, to fight against gender-based violence. I thank you, Madam. [Applause.]
Nk N C NKABINDE (UDM) /Ss (English/IsiZulu)
/AKJ (Eng) / END OF TAKE
Ms M V MERUTI
LATEST DEVELOPMENTS WITH REGARD TO CASE OF FOUR MEN
CHARGED WITH ROBBERY
(Member's Statement)
IsiZulu:
Nk N C NKABINDE (UDM): Somlomo namalungu ale Ndlu ahloniphekileyo, i-UDM iqaphela ngokucikeka izehlo zakamuva ecaleni lamadoda amane. Amanye awo amalungu amaphoyisa asolwa ngokuntshontsha izigidigidi zamakhulu zamarandi esisefeni semali samaphoyisa. Amalungu ale Ndlu azokhumbula ukuthi lantshontshwa kanjani ikhulu lezigidigidi zamarandi esikhumulweni sezindiza, i-O R Tambo, kwathi kamuva ingxenye yayo yatholakala. Yaphinde yantshontshwa futhi esisefeni semali samaphoyisa eMpumalanga Randi.
Isimo salobu busela ngokungangabazeki sashiya kunokungqubuzana nokungathembani phakathi kwamalungu amaphoyisa. Inani elingatheni labasolwa laboshwa nesamba semali kulona. Nokho ingxenye enkulu yale mali ayikakatholakali. Abanye babasolwa baphenduka ofakazi benkantolo. Okudabukisayo ukuthi ofakazi ngamunye ngamunye bayabulawa ukuze icala lingakwazi ukuqhutshwa.
Lokhu kuthumela umyalezo okungeyiwo wokuthi uma unemali eningi, ungayisebenzisa ukuvimbela ukusebenza kwengalo yomthetho. Kubonakala sengathi kuzogcina kusetshenziswa imali yabakhokhi bentela ukubuyisa le mali eyantshontshwayo. Leli cala likhombisa ngokusobala ukuthi kunesidingo sophiko oluzimele olulwa nobelelesi, njenge-Scorpions olunamandla nokuzimisela ekubopheni izihlakaniphi nezigilamkhuba ezisebenzisa izikhundla zazo eziphezulu emphakathini ukuqhwaga nokubulala uma zifuna. Ngiyabonga.
Mrs P DE LILLE
END OF TAKE
Nk N C NKABINDE
MINISTER SHOULD REPORT BACK TO PARLIAMENT ON VAN ZYL SLABBERT COMMISSION REPORT
(Member's Statement)
Mrs P DE LILLE (ID): Madam Speaker, on 7 August 2006 I asked the Minister of Home Affairs whether the report of the Van Zyl Slabbert commission on the South African electoral system had been evaluated, whether the government had accepted the recommendations contained in the report, and whether the proposed new electoral system would be put in place by 2009. This was her response, and I quote: "Yes, indeed, government received the report of the Van Zyl Slabbert commission and noted its contents on 5 March 2003."
As members may recall, Cabinet instructed the Minister of Home Affairs to distribute the document to the media and the public, and this was done. Furthermore, it was agreed that the current government, constituted on the basis of the 2004 elections ... [Interjections.] ...
The Minister says now that the matter has been raised in the House and that "I will, as the Minister present, present it to Cabinet for further consideration and will certainly report back to Parliament at an appropriate time."
On 27 February 2007 I repeated the question, and the Minister said:
The general thrust of what I said was that the matter will be presented to Cabinet for further consideration, and a report back will be given to this House at an appropriate time.
And she said that it was premature for me to ask another question. I've submitted another question today, 21 February 2008, and I'm making a call on the Minister to please respect Parliament. If she promised that she would come back to us, why is it taking almost more than two years? The report was done in 2003, and it is now 2008. Thank you.
Adv Z L MADASA
END OF TAKE
Mrs P DE LILLE
PLANS FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF AFRICAN COMMAND ON AFRICAN SOIL REJECTED
(Member's Statement)
Adv Z L MADASA (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC would like to reiterate its objection to the ongoing preparations by the US government to establish what they call "an African command" on the African continent, which we believe is a euphemism for stationing military bases in Africa.
The ANC knows that SADC has formally rejected the establishment of Africom on the continent. The ANC further notes that the AU is in the process of establishing regional standby forces in order to react rapidly to any regional conflict in Africa, and that any foreign assistance with peace in Africa should be towards the strengthening of the existing standby forces.
The ANC's 52nd conference in Polokwane reiterated that Africa requires a united continent, capable of engaging other powerful nations and in line with the ANC's vision of building a better Africa.
The ANC calls upon the AU member states, the parliaments of Africa and civil society to unite in their resistance to the establishment of Africom on the continent. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M V NGEMA
END OF TAKE
Adv Z L MADASA
QUIET DIPLOMACY NOT WORKING
(Member's Statement)
Mr M V NGEMA (Nadeco): Madam Speaker, "A state is not a mere society having a common place established for the prevention of mutual crime and for the sake of exchange. Political society exists for the sake of noble actions, and not mere companionship."
As I read this quotation from the philosopher and Greek critic Aristotle, I found it very descriptive and applicable to the attitude at times portrayed by the ruling party in the manner in which it conducts some of our national affairs.
We, as Nadeco, believe that it is crucial for every member of the House to constantly revisit the significance of their role and the people we represent. As the people of Zimbabwe head to the polling stations next month, and as hundreds of Zimbabweans continue to stream across the borders of this country, fleeing political instability and seeking food, shelter, employment and security, this government needs to ask itself how long it will continue to maintain quiet diplomacy.
This country is a beacon of hope for the rest of the African continent. Africa looks upon South Africa to maintain the momentum of this continent, breaking the shackles of poverty and ensuring political stability and economic development. I thank you.
Mr L M GREEN
MC //sd (Zul) / END OF TAKE
Mr M V NGEMA
CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATIC MOVEMENT AIMS TO CREATE PLATFORM TO ELECT PARLIAMENT MEMBERS
(Member's Statement)
Mr L M GREEN (FD): Madam Speaker, since 1994 a number of political parties with Christian principles have either been elected to Parliament or exist as small entities around the country. In recent months, however, the need has arisen to establish within society a more cohesive Christian democratic movement, aimed at creating a political platform with the objective of electing to Parliament members schooled in Christian democratic values.
The Christian Democratic Alliance has emerged as such a vehicle. The CDA aims to promote a political forum by translating moral and ethical standards based on Christian values to inform our political thought, which principally aims to define power, as "delegated authority to those governing over the nation", whilst also respecting the interdependent relationship of other forms of authority, such as family, civil society, religious institutions and the individual.
Christian democracy is a political philosophy that, together with liberal, conservative, Marxist or socialist ideologies, competes for political space. Christian democracy should not be confused with church doctrine or selective Biblical interpretations, since histories of countries worldwide, including our own, are replete with examples which used religion to justify the abuse of power.
It is the intention of the CDA to build a broad alliance to align all like-minded parties at national, provincial and local levels who share these common values, and the CDA ... [Time expired.]
Mrs S V KALYAN
END OF TAKE
Mr L M GREEN
COLLUSIVE TENDER AND MARKET ALLOCATION
(Member's Statement)
Mrs S V KALYAN (DA): Madam Speaker, according to the Competition Commission, Adcock Ingram, Dismed and Thusanong Health Care were engaged in collusive tendering and market allocation. These actions are in contravention of section 4 of the Competition Act.
This type of conduct is specifically designed to avoid competition between the colluding firms and the manipulation of prices for pharmaceutical and hospital products. Further, the colluding firms agreed among themselves who would win the tenders. They also agreed, or arranged between themselves, that the winning firms would cede portions of the tender to one of their colluding partners. The investigation found that this illegitimate conduct came to the attention of several board members of Tiger Brands, but no action was taken.
Health care costs are escalating and collusive behaviour of such a nature is undoubtedly one of the contributing factors to higher prices in health care markets. Such behaviour is further indicative of the existence of a drug cartel and is most reprehensible.
The DA calls for the full arm of the law to punish this collusive behaviour and for the report to be made public.
Nksz X C MAKASI
END OF TAKE
Mrs S V KALYAN
FINANCIAL SUPPORT IN EASTERN CAPE EDUCATION
(Member's Statement)
IsiXhosa:
Nksz N M MAHLAWE (ANC): Somlomo, umbutho wesizwe i-ANC, wenza isibhambathiso nabantu sokuba, mhla sifumana inkululeko yethu kweli lizwe, imfundo iya kuba simahla, ibe sisinyanzelo, ivuleleke kuye wonke umntwana, singajonganga bala lamntwana. Imfundo enomsila iya kuthi ixhaswe ngurhulumente ...
English:
The SPEAKER: Could we have sound, please?
Nksz N M MAHLAWE (ANC): Urhulumente wephondo leMpuma Koloni ubekele bucala imali eqikelelwa kwizigidi ezingama-85 zeerandi. Le mali ibekelwe ukuncedisana nabafundi abadinga inkxaso-mali yokufunda.
Ukusukela kunyaka wama-2002, urhulumente waseMpuma Koloni okhokelwa yi-ANC sele encede abafundi abangama - 900 ngenkxaso-mali. Inxalenye yaba bafundi, ekugqibeni kwayo izifundo zayo, iye yaqashwa ngurhulumente wephondo. Urhulumente okhokelwa ngumbutho wesizwe i-ANC uya kuthi gqolo uphuhlisa izakhono zolutsha ukuze lukwazi ukuthabatha inxaxheba kuqoqosho lwelizwe, ukhuthaza ulutsha ukuba luziqashe. Enkosi.
Mr M W SIBUYANA
MC(Xhs) / END OF TAKE
Nksz N M MAHLAWE
ENERGY CRISIS AND IMPORTANCE OF PROPER PLANNING AND FORECASTING
(Member's Statement)
Mr M W SIBUYANA (IFP): Madam Speaker, the current energy crisis, and the events which led to the occurrence of this dire situation, should serve as a warning to government and its various entities about the importance of proper planning and forecasting.
We must learn from the mistakes that led to the energy crisis and make sure that they are not repeated. It is with this in mind that the IFP urges government and the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry to heed the warnings of the World Wide Fund for Nature, which has warned of a looming water crisis for South Africa.
They mentioned many areas of concern, including the need for the proper protection of water catchments as well as the fact that 98% of available water resources are already fully utilised and that the country could run out of water by 2025.
There have been a few incidents of concern recently such as the radioactive pollutants in the Wonderfontein Spruit, west of Johannesburg, and the sewerage leak into the Umhlatuzana River which killed many fish in the Durban harbour. While it is important not ... [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
Mrs J CHALMERS
Mr M W SIBUYANA
SISTER ETHEL CONGRATULATED ON HER WORK IN MISSIONVALE
(Member's Statement)
Mrs J CHALMERS (ANC): Madam Speaker, Missionvale is situated in the Nelson Mandela Bay and has a large population of which 80% are unemployed.
Twenty years ago, Sister Ethel, an Irish missionary, started her missionary work under a tree in the area. Since then Sister Ethel, in collaboration with the community and the municipality, has established a community clinic, a crèche, and a food garden and care centre for vulnerable women and children.
Last year she took the initiative to start the construction of a hospice centre that caters for terminally ill patients in the area. She has recruited 200 volunteers from her home country - County Clare, Ireland - to build a large hospice in record time and share their expertise with locals at the same time. A final batch of volunteers arrived last weekend to finish the project. As a result, hundreds of local unemployed women and children were taught skills in brickwork, carpentry and plumbing. Much of the support she has received in building her care centre over the years has come from Ireland. Her centre has been visited by the Queen of England, the late Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela and many other leaders.
Sister Ethel was one of the eminent persons invited to attend this year's opening of Parliament and, in his state of the nation address, President Mbeki thanked Sister Ethel for her efforts.
The ANC congratulates the efforts of Sister Ethel and her team of volunteers on improving the lives of the people in Missionvale and the practical efforts she has undertaken in the building of a caring society. [Applause.]
Mr M WATERS
END OF TAKE
Mrs J CHALMERS
SHORTAGES OF DOCTORS IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Member's Statement)
Mr M WATERS (DA): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The shortage of doctors and nurses is crippling health care in South Africa. Mpumalanga, for example, has a 92% shortfall in the number of doctors it needs. Yet this government continues to treat health workers with complete contempt and disrespect. For example, Dr Colin Pfaff was recently charged with misconduct because he tried to do the best for his patients by offering them the best treatment he could. I am glad to say the protests from the DA, doctors' associations and civil society have resulted in the charges now being dropped.
Newly qualified nurses are still in a state of confusion because the national health department has not yet got around to setting the date for the commencement of their community service – and we are now going towards of February. This morning the DA received a plea for help from a community service dentist in the Eastern Cape who began work on 1 January and has still not been paid.
It is high time that the government showed its commitment to improving health care in this country by changing its attitude towards health workers.
The DA calls on the Minister of Health, one, to request MECs for health not to act against doctors implementing dual-therapy treatment regimes; two, postpone the implementation of community service for nurses until next year in order to put a stop to the uncertainty; and, three, investigate the failure of some provincial governments to pay community service professionals. I thank you.
Mr H P MALULEKA
END OF TAKE
Mr M WATERS
PASSING AWAY OF VETERAN ACTRESS AND BUSINESSWOMAN ASHLEY CALLIE
(Member's Statement)
Mr H P MALULEKA (ANC): Madam Speaker, death has again robbed the nation of one of its inspiring talents.
The ANC conveys its condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Ashley Callie. Ashley will always be remembered by many South Africans for the role she played in the television industry. Ashley was a well-loved South African actress and businesswoman best known for her role as Leone Haines in SABC 3's Isidingo.
Miss Callie made a significant contribution to laying a solid foundation in the redefinition of "Proudly South African" television content. She acted well in her role to not only bear testimony to the innate talent in many of our young people but to pave the way for a television audience to recognise and accept a nonracial society. Her role as an actress contributed greatly to social cohesion as well as in building a nonracial democratic South Africa.
Ashley won the award for Best Actress in a Soapie at the inaugural Safta Awards – the SA Film and Television Academy Awards - which were held at Gallagher Estate in Johannesburg on 28 October 2006. May her soul rest in peace. [Applause.]
MINISTERS' RESPONSES: The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
Rm/Mme / END OF TAKE
Mr H P MALULEKA
MONOPOLISTIC BUSINESS PRACTICES
(Minister's Response)
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Speaker, on the matter of collusion or collusive behaviour that the hon member of the DA referred to, I'd like to draw attention to recent developments.
Members would recognise that, in recent months, we have seen increased activity by our competition authorities in the areas of steel, bread, milk, banks and also the case referred to by the hon member.
We have also, in the recent past, conducted a review of our competition legislation in which we looked at the experience of having and applying the new legislation and the new institutions.
Generally, the view is that we do need to strengthen the law in certain respects and the institutions. As a result, this is one of the issues that we are going to be bringing to Parliament: to consider amendments to the competition legislation this year. This is generally in line with the stance of the government and the stance of the ANC, in that we do need to promote the competition environment in South Africa in a way that enables more and more players to come into the market and participate.
Also, we have a strong view regarding the pricing behaviour of particularly monopoly companies, practices such as import parity pricing. We are also introducing legislation to strengthen consumer protection, and the Credit Act is one example of this.
So these things are all reflective of the general stance of the government and the ANC towards these matters. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN
(Minister's Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Madam Speaker, I am responding to the statement made by the hon Meruti regarding a sad incident that happened in Gauteng. Sadly, this incident has happened for the second time in which women are told what to wear.
The last incident happened in KwaZulu-Natal where a woman was forbidden to wear pants. She was dragged and beaten up and told not to come near the hostels wearing pants.
I feel great sadness by the fact that these incidents are happening in this day and age. But I think we also need to change our strategy in tackling this scourge in our country. We need to hear – vocally - men condemning these sexist acts against women and children. We need to hear more men coming out in condemnation of these incidents. [Applause.]
Also, our education should not only happen when men are grown-ups. It must start in our homes, where it must be said that a boy is no better than a girl-child. Then this education must continue going to our schools.
What I want to emphasise is that we should all jointly stand up as South Africans citizens, men and women, and condemn these acts and these sexist acts. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
END OF TAKE
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT
MISDIRECTED COLLECTIVE FORCE IN MEDICAL FRATERNITY
PHARMACIST NOT BEING PAID SINCE JANUARY
DUAL THERAPY
COMMUNITY SERVICE
COLLUSION AND FIXED MEDICINE PRICES
(Minister's Responses)
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Madam Speaker, as you will understand I've got quite a few responses to make.
The first response will be on what I would term the misdirected collective force in the medical fraternity that's been called for. I think the hon member must remember that medical practitioners do take an oath in which they pledge to protect patients and humanity.
It is therefore, I think, irresponsible for the member to mobilise the Pfaff fraternity to violate the rights of the patients. At the same time, I call upon her to encourage the patients to take care of and responsibility for their health. I think that's what the hon member should do.
The second issue I would like to comment on is about the pharmacist who has not been paid since January. Well, I regret this if this has happened. But I don't think I can be sent to collectively tell all the provinces that they haven't paid pharmacists.
I think what the member should have done, as he always does, is to write a letter to me - sometimes he writes very impolite letters, I must say – to say that a particular province didn't do this and, Minister, could you please investigate. I will do that, so I await your letter to do so.
That would be very helpful, but nevertheless thank you very much for having brought this to our attention. I will also bring up matters of such a nature to our meeting with the MECs. But in this House to just refer collectively to provinces is not very helpful, as I can't then act immediately.
The third issue is about dual therapy. I think the member wrote to me and I answered him. I don't know what he seeks to do now. He knows the circumstances around which that occurred. The regulations were not in place yet. The province had not adopted the policy and those guidelines.
Surely, in this country we can't have chaos - everybody just doing what they want to do. Tomorrow we'll find that patients are allowed to commit suicide; to do all manner of things just because a particular doctor wants to do so. I think it would be absolutely irresponsible.
But I would like to announce to this House that we have now developed the policy and guidelines on dual therapy. They are on the website, and I invite all of you to read the foreword by the Minister, because I think it tells a story.
The third issue is about community service: that we must either stop it, postpone it or, indeed, scrap it, because we were irresponsible not to issue a register. Let me just say that the regulations are ready and they will be implemented retrospectively. It would be irresponsible indeed to prolong or interrupt community service for the nurses. They require it so that they can provide us with the quality service we require of them. We will indeed implement the regulations retrospectively.
In any case, it's not as though this House did not know. It is not as if the whole nation didn't know that there was going to be community service. This had been announced and it was postponed because certain things had not been done but, ultimately, we all accepted in this House, when I made the statement, that indeed community service was going to start in January. It is going to continue, and, as I say, the regulations are ready.
The third issue is also about ...
The SPEAKER: That's the fifth one actually, Minister.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Yes, it is indeed, Madam Speaker. I did say there were five and they are almost finished.
The last issue is about the pharmaceutical companies and how they colluded and fixed medicine prices. In this regard I'd like to thank the hon member for her comment. We feel exactly the same, because, indeed, this impacts on the affordability and accessibility of medicines. But let me hope that the hon member will indeed wholeheartedly support the Department of Health as we seek to amend the National Health Act in terms of the escalating health costs in the country. I am relying on his support so that there won't be any opposition to that amendment. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION
END OF TAKE / nvs
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
SISTER ETHEL'S MISSIONARY WORK
STUDENT FUNDING OF UNIVERSITY FEES
AFFORDABILITY OF MEDICINE
(Minister's Responses)
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, some of the statements seemed to be notices of motion. I'm not sure whether Ministers could respond to the opportune way in which the hon Green announced the formation of a party that I'm sure he will jump to some time soon. So, I wasn't quite sure what the executive is supposed to do with that particular statement and one or two others.
On the matters related to education ...
Setswana:
... ke tla simolola ka gore gompieno ke letsatsi la go bua maleme a rona. Ke tla bua Setswana. Ke leboga porofense ya Kapa Botlhaba ka go thusa bana ba rona go tsena mo diunibesithing le mo diunibesithing tsa thekenoloji. Ke selo se se tshwanetseng go dirwa ke diporofense tsotlhe. Re itse gore madi a rona a go thusa bana go tsena diunibesithi le diunibesithi tsa thekenoloji nako dingwe a tlhaela.
Tona Manuel o re boleletse gore re tlile go oketsa madi a a thusang bana ba Aforika Borwa go tsena mo diunibesithing le mo diunibesithing tsa thekenoloji. Jaanong re kopa bana ba rona gore fa ba fitlha kwa diunibesithing ba seke ba senya diphaposi tsa tlhatlhelelo; ba seke ba thibela bana ba bangwe go tsena mo diphaposing tsa tlhatlhelelo; ba seke ba roba matlhabaphefo le go dira dilo tse di sa tsamaisaneng le thuto mo unibesithing.
Aforika Borwa e na le madi a a thusang bana ba ba tlhaelwang, ba ba nang le batsadi ba ba sa direng, ba sa kgone go duela dituelo tsa diunibesithi le diunibesithi tsa thekenoloji. Go tsamaya o bolelela bana ba Aforika Borwa gore motho fa a thuba o tla tsena mo unibesithing le fa a sena madi ke go ba bolelela maaka. Re kopa gore lo seke lwa dira jalo. Diunibesithi tsa rona ke diunibesithi tsa Aforika Borwa yotlhe. A re di bolokeng!
Sa bobedi se ke batlang go bua ka sona ke selo se se reng re tshwanetse go baa Africom leitlho; re seke ra e dumelela mo Aforika, e seke ya nna teng gotlhelele. Ke dumalana le baemedi ba ba reng jalo.
Sa boraro, ke gore ke itumetse thata go utlwa mme mmaTshabalala-Msimang a bua gore batho ba rona fa ba tshwanetse go reka melemo, ba tshwanetse go e reka ka madi a ba a kgonang. Ke kgale a se bua selo se mme ke itumetse gompieno go bona gore DA e dumalana le ena, e bone gore go na le ba ba sa direng sentle ka melemo e e rekisiwang mo dikhemiseng. Ke kgale Tona a bua ka selo se. Ke na le tshepo ya gore re tlile go ya kwa dikgorong tsa dikhampani tse, re tle re supe gore le rona ga re rate se ba ntseng ba se dira. Ba utswa madi mo bathong ba ba lwalang mo Aforika Borwa.
IsiXhosa:
Mandigqibezele, Mam'uSomlomo, ngokuthi sibulela kakhulu ngomsebenzi omhle owenziwa nguSista Ethel eMissionvale. Ndiye ndadibana nomnye utata ovela esiqithini ndikwinqwelomoya, othe weza kum wathi kufanele ndiye kuncedisa uSista Ethel ukuze abe nokwakha amagumbi okufundela ze ahlawule nootitshala. Ndimthembisile ukuba ndiza kundwendwela eMissionvale ukuze ndibone ukuba thina baphuma kwezemfundo singanceda njani na. Kambe umsebenzi kaSista Ethel ngumsebenzi omhle kakhulu.
Sivumelana nenkokeli yethu ukuba ngokwenene masimbulele uSista Ethel ngomsebenzi omhle awenzayo eMissionvale. Ndiyabulela, Mam'uSomlomo.
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION – STATEMENT ON SCHOOL PLEDGE
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION
STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF EDUCATION ON PROPOSED SCHOOL PLEDGE
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to make a statement on the proposal that there should be a national schools' pledge that has a daily and visible role in all our schools, and that it is shaped in a manner that serves to expand the curriculum focus on values, while supporting nation-building and collective and individual commitment to the pursuit of positive values and a shared community resolve to do our best for ourselves, our school, our community and our country.
The pledge reads as follows:
We, the youth of South Africa, recognising the injustices of our past, honour those who suffered and sacrificed for justice and freedom. We will respect and protect the dignity of each person and stand up for justice. We sincerely declare that we shall uphold the rights and values of our Constitution and promise to act in accordance with the duties and responsibilities that flow from these rights. !KE E: /XARRA//KE. Nkosi Sikelel' i-Afrika!
There have been vigorous, energising in some parts, offensive in others, encouraging and thought-provoking responses to this proposal.
I must immediately apologise to the public of South Africa for having apparently created the impression that the proposal would not be up for debate. Some commentators appear to believe that schools have already been directed to implement this schools' pledge.
What has been done is to indicate that we believe that there should be a schools' pledge. I continue to believe so, and I continue to believe that teachers should assist the learners to learn to recite a schools' pledge. Once the public comment phase has ended, we will consider the proposals and then provide a schools' pledge to all our schools.
These reactions, which have ranged, as I've said, from strong support, lukewarm reception, hostile, aggressive and offensive have been interesting. On the side of some strong support, we had an interesting editorial in the Cape Times yesterday, and if I might quote it:
The proposal ...
I repeat –
The proposal to introduce a pledge in schools has generated much sound and fury and very little real debate. This is difficult to understand. At this stage, the pledge suggested by Education Minister Naledi Pandor is just that, a suggestion. The Cassandras, who say this is simply an attempt to impose ANC propaganda on children, clearly have not given the issue much thought.
This is not me; it's the editorial in the Cape Times –
After all, what can be wrong with expressing our unity as a nation, our hopes for the future of our country, and an acknowledgement of the history that informs our society? This is what we - and people throughout the world - do every time the national anthem is sung. In the United States, the school day starts with the Pledge of Allegiance.
So, we should step back and apply some thought. If the concept of the pledge is not intrinsically flawed - which it is not - then how should we go about constructing it?
The idea that the pledge should be linked with school work on the duties and obligations which flow from the rights enshrined in the Constitution is a good place to start. If it could encapsulate core values that inform a detailed examination of the moral challenges children will face and continue to face throughout their lives, so much the better. This is not to suggest that there is some kind of blueprint for life, but rather that children must be helped to work their way through the complex issues that define living.
The Constitution provides a useful template for how the debate about the pledge - and any ethics syllabus - might be constructed. The Constitution is, above all else, a rigorously antipartisan document. It is inclusive and egalitarian. And it is a living work, requiring constant thought and debate.
This captures the aim of the pledge as well as the bill of responsibilities that we've published.
Mr Mandela once said, while serving as President of the ANC and even as President of our country, "Never, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land will again experience the oppression of one by another."
If this pledge plays a small role reinforcing this, then it will have been a success.
It seems that for the lukewarm respondents, the notion of a pledge has odious memories of authoritarian governments that impose their values on a society. Some have even commented that the pledge reminds them of the apartheid state imposition of various rituals.
I remind hon members that our country is a democratic state; a new, young democracy - one being built and shaped by all of us, from the roots upwards. Our intention is to support young people to understand the values we have all agreed are necessary, at the earliest possible stage. This is a simple addition to the current national curriculum, which is underpinned by the core values elaborated on in our Constitution.
Commentators are right, I believe, that mere recitation would not be enough, hence the importance of the link that we would have to establish to this values-based curriculum practice.
The hostile and aggressive respondents seem, collectively, to be against the second line in the pledge that refers to recognising our past. They say that this is the ANC forcing guilt onto their children. Since all learners will have this pledge in their schools, I do not understand this fear. This may be an admission of guilt by the adults who are so fearful of that one sentence in the proposed pledge.
I agree with them that we should not burden children with the sins of their parents, but I disagree that learners should be denied knowledge of all our past. Erasing memory of past injustice erases the new endeavour to build a just nation.
Nevertheless, as I've previously indicated, all are welcome to make submissions that might improve the current wording. Hopefully, the final wording of the pledge will refer to values, will promote nation-building and will seek personal commitment to the good of all.
Apart from the important matter of the core values that draw our nation together, I hope that all of us will honestly admit that we have called for multifaceted responses to the ill discipline and careless attitude to values we see in our society today. South Africans have called on education authorities to do more to inculcate a more caring and considerate conduct in our young people.
As I have indicated, our curriculum, primarily in the life orientation learning area, seeks to do just that. However, given our history of a society that was divided by violent repression and the absence of an inclusive democracy, our interventions need to go beyond a learning area into practices that will, in the words of Rabbi J Sachs, who was quoted by J Kearney in a recent edition of the Cape Times just a week ago, teach our children that "freedom is not, as so many have thought, a matter of political or military victories alone. It involves 'habits of the heart'".
That is what we hope the cumulative effect of a schools' pledge, of the Bill of Responsibilities and of the life orientation programme might be: the encouragement, the emergence, the inculcation of "habits of the heart".
Finally, allow me to refer briefly to the Bill of responsibilities that we have drafted together with the National Religious Leaders' Forum. Its core purpose is to draw our attention, and particularly that of our youth, to the fact that the constitutional rights have companions that are called "responsibilities".
Many people have said that this has been a neglected part of our civic education as a people and as a country. We drafted that document for debate, discussion and education on the link between rights and responsibilities. We hope all South Africans will give increased attention to actively shaping a society that is fully deserving of our great Constitution and all the freedoms we now enjoy.
I close by quoting, once more, former President Mandela, who said:
"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." We hope, through crafting a pledge to guide our youth, we will help in laying that platform for change that former President Mandela referred to. I thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
Mrs D VAN DER WALT
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION
Afrikaans:
Ms D VAN DER WALT: Agb Adjunk Speaker, om ook op Internasionale Moedertaaldag te bewys dat ek as Afrikaanssprekende ander se moedertaal respekteer gaan ek vandag my toespraak in Engels lewer.
English:
The DA welcomes the idea of a pledge of allegiance. We have said on a number of occasions already that this could be a powerful way to build a sense of identity and a common purpose. In fact, the DA put forward its own proposal for a pledge in June last year, long before the President took it up in his state of the nation address. We have asked for further public input on our pledge already, and we will be making our own submission on the basis of the input we receive.
However, there are two considerations that must be taken into account before we start expecting our schoolchildren to recite a pledge. Firstly, it is absolutely critical that there be proper consultation. We all know that feelings about culture and language run deep in South Africa and that our views on these matters are often very different. If a pledge is forced on our children it will not be accepted and the government must not regard this as a cheap quick way to impose its own world view on society. One month is not long enough for proper consultation. The period needs to be significantly extended.
This pledge must be a creation of the people, including the learners who will recite it, and not of the state. Therefore it is not acceptable that government has made itself the judge and jury on this matter. Responsibility for accepting and considering the public's inputs must be given to an independent task team of credible experts and not the government.
Another area where questions of identity and culture have had to be confronted is in relation to place names, and the SA Geographical Names Council has been created specifically to manage this process. It is staffed by independent experts and it is required to ensure that specific consultation processes are followed before names are changed. We should perhaps look to this example in deciding on a pledge.
Secondly, South Africans need to believe that the principles embodied in a pledge are principles that apply to everyone, including our leaders and including the President him or herself.
Putting the Constitution and its values at the heart of any pledge of allegiance is to be welcomed. At a time when our democracy is under threat in a number of different ways, it is important to encourage a culture of constitutionalism in our youth. But how many politicians in the ruling party can themselves, in all honesty, say that they are willing to pledge allegiance to the Constitution when our Constitution requires of Members of Parliament that they not "use their position to enrich themselves"? Why do we still have 32 Members of Parliament who have effectively admitted guilt in the Travelgate Scandal, but who still hold tightly onto their seats today?
Our Constitution creates a clear separation of powers in order to ensure that our government is accountable to the people, yet we have a situation in which the Speaker of Parliament, who is supposed to be a neutral referee, is also both the Chairperson of the ANC and the Chairperson of the ANC's political committee, and therefore cannot possibly be impartial. [Interjections.] We cannot, for example, have a situation in which, on the one hand, we are talking about including the concept of the supremacy of the Constitution in the pledge and, on the other hand, we have a possible future President of the country saying that the ANC is more important than the Constitution.
We all need to commit ourselves equally to the ideals that we want to have expressed in this pledge. A pledge will work only if everyone is committed to it. Let us work hard to make sure it happens. Let us spend time thinking about how we can do this in a way that everyone feels included, and let us expect of ourselves that we embody the principle it contains as much as we expect of others. I thank you - "Dankie" [Thank you.] and "Ke a leboga". [Thank you.] [Applause.]
Ms C N Z ZIKALALA
END OF TAKE
Ms D VAN DER WALT
Ms C N Z ZIKALALA: Deputy Madam Speaker, looking back in history, Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi and the IFP have always advocated the teaching of Ubuntu-botho in our schools. We believe in an education system built on the cornerstones of ubuntu and we believe that the restoration of the culture of Ubuntu-botho and the inculcation of the revolution of goodwill in all schools and institutions of higher learning have always been the answer to the many crises that beset our education system and our society at large.
But these ideas of the IFP were turned down by the ANC government years ago as useless notions and were never implemented in schools we believe to the detriment of all school learners. Nature, as the saying goes, does not allow a vacuum. When the ANC-led Department of Education abolished school prayers, thereby depriving schools of choices, there was a void. Furthermore, the ANC-led Department of Education has made it practically impossible for educators to discipline learners, and the consequence of this is now very clear to all of us. Our schools have become havens of violence, drug abuse, indiscipline and gross disrespect for public property.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon member! There is a point of order. Hon Minister?
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: ... [Inaudible.] ... the opportunity to make statements on the issue of the school pledge to be abused by opposition parties as a means of attacking the government. Both the speakers, the previous one and this one, have said nothing about the relevance of the pledge; whether it is valuable, whether it is acceptable. [Interjections.] They have used this platform merely to attack the governing party. We can take on anyone when it comes to the cut and thrust of politics.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon Minister! That is not a point of order.
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: But I don't think the podium should be abused in this manner. [Applause.]
Mrs S A SEATON: I do believe the Minister is also now using an opportune ... I think, on a point of order ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I ruled. I said that was not a point of order. Please sit down, Mrs Seaton.
Mrs S A SEATON: Thank you. Absolutely!
Ms C N Z ZIKALALA: Late last year we were confronted with the news that 80% of nine and 10-year olds in government schools could not read at the required level. Worse, between 86% and 96% of children who speak and were tested in African languages, did not reach the mark.
The IFP believes that a school pledge can be useful in bringing about pride and reconciliation in our country. We therefore, in principle support the taking of a pledge by learners, but with the following provisions. One, the wording of such a pledge must be appropriate to the developmental age of the learners; two, the wording of such a pledge must be ideology-free and must have been agreed to by all stakeholders; and, three, such a pledge must have as its objective nation-building, social cohesion and the inculcation of respect of human dignity and respect for public property as well as the inculcation of a human rights culture.
The IFP believes that debate on this topic should be welcomed, and we call on all South Africans to deliberate and contest government's proposal to improve it. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S N SIGCAU / //np// END OF TAKE
Ms C N Z ZIKALALA
IsiXhosa:
Nksz S N SIGCAU: Sekela-Somlomo obekekileyo namalungu ngokubanzi, isibhambathiso sesikolo sibekwe ngendlela. Kodwa, ngaba siyimfuneko na? Ngaba uMhobe weSizwe uyasilela na ukuba yinkuthazo kubemi beli na, nakwimbali nekamva lobunye?
Esi sibhambathiso sisikhumbuza kakhulu ngesamaMelika ezikolweni. Nangona singabuthandabuziyo ubunganga bela lizwe, akufuneki sizeke mzekweni silandela lona kuyo yonke into eliyenzayo.
Kukwakho ingxaki ngokubhekisele kwingcombolo equlathwe kwesi sibhambathiso. Sisibuyisele endulo kunokuba sisibhekisele phambili. Amazolo abalulekile, akukho ntandabuzo ngoko. Kodwa unqontsonqa wesibhambathiso kukubangwa kwentsingiselo, ukuya empumelelweni, ukwakha ikamva eliqaqambileyo nokukhuthaza okuhle kweli lixa.
Esi sibhambathiso side kakhulu. Siyi-UDM sithi ukuba abantwana bethu kufuneka besifundile kwaye besicengceleze ngeqhayiya, kufuneka sibe sifutshane. Amazwi angama-76 made kakhulu xa ethelekiswa nesibhambathiso samaMelika, ekucacileyo ukuba unenkqubela-phambili.
Loo wethu uya kunganiki mdla kubantwana abancinane. Ulwimi olusetyenzisiweyo lunzima kakhulu. Ndimhlonipha nje umbhali, kodwa untsonkothile wagabadela ngokubhekisele kumagama awasebenzisileyo. Ngokucacileyo, umntwana ominyaka isixhenxe uya kufumana ubunzima ngala magama.
Okubhaliweyo kuyasilela ukuveza indima yoMhobe weSizwe. Ukuba akukho enye into engenziwa ngokubhekisele kwesi sibhambathiso, urhulumente makenze ukhuphiswano lukazwelonke ukuze kukhethwe esona sibhambathiso siphume emagqabini, njengoko kwakwenziwe ngokubhekisele kwiimpawu zesiswe. Ndiyayishiya le ndawo. Enkosi ngokundiboleka indlebe. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Mr M H HOOSEN
Nksz S N SIGCAU
Mr M H HOOSEN: Madam Deputy Speaker, the proposed national school pledge, introduced by hon Minister Naledi Pandor a few days ago, has been met with mixed reactions across our country, and the Minister alluded to that earlier on.
As the ID, we believe that the idea of a pledge is a fairly good one, and we understand the motivation behind the Minister's intentions. However, we note with concern the lack of proper programmes for children to understand the vague principles that they are being asked to pledge allegiance to. Reciting a pledge every morning, without first understanding the very basics of the pledge and the Constitution, amounts to indoctrination and will not achieve the desired results.
Of particular concern to the ID is the absence of proper consultation. If you want to unite people around the pledge, then you must allow them to participate in the decisions we take as government.
The principle of consultation is non-negotiable, and Parliament must take note of the constitutional judgments which referred weak legislation back to Parliament.
Of the 110 judgments passed by the Constitutional Court, 55 of them were against government. This represents 55 violations of the Constitution in such a short period of our young democracy. Our Constitution has become more democratic than the drafters itself, many of whom are sitting in the House.
The ID therefore calls on government to pledge that they shall honour and uphold the principles of the Constitution at every sitting. I thank you.
Ms C DUDLEY
END OF TAKE
Mr M H HOOSEN
Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, the ACDP is of the opinion that the proposed new school pledge will create unnecessary problems as government once again appears to run roughshod over the sentiments of the majority of South Africans who hold to Christian values and quite possibly many minority groups as well.
While the ACDP supports a constitutional democracy, it voted against the Constitution precisely because certain clauses diametrically oppose Christian values. For example, the Constitution is recognised as a higher authority than the Almighty God, protects the right to life of murderers and rapists, but denies the right to life of innocent unborn children, and it opened the door to pornography and same-sex marriage.
The ACDP will reject ... [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: [Inaudible.]
Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Minister, you are right that the first impression was problematic as it came across as a fait accompli. However, your assurances that this is not the case are encouraging. We appreciate the apparent commitment by the Minister to listening to the public on this issue. For example, for some it may be that they take issue with remembering the past, but for others it is simply the oath itself because people have a very strong belief that it is against their religion to take these oaths; and, for many, it is simply the issue of certain clauses in the Constitution.
The ACDP will reject any attempt by government to impose a pledge that does not enhance education, does not encourage self-discipline, ignores moral values and takes away individual freedom of choice. So, while the ACDP would like to see this pledge scrapped, we have actually called on the hon Minister, at the very least, to recognise that parents and learners may have objections - and they would have a right to object - and that we would expect and ask for you to facilitate an opt-out option, which, of course, in itself is sad because it creates divisions.
The Catholic Institute of Education and the Catholic Schools' Proprietors Association are reported to have said that there is an urgent need to promote social cohesion, national unity and to develop moral citizens, and that schoolchildren reciting an inadequately phrased pledge will not necessarily become moral citizens.
The ACDP has said the proposed new school pledge would divide and not unite, and the public response to date certainly bears this out. This would be most unfortunate! Ngiyabonga. [Time expired.]
Mnr P J GROENEWALD
END OF TAKE
Mrs C DUDLEY
Afrikaans:
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Geagte Adjunkspeaker, ek wil nou net sê dat ek sien die DA lid gaan na die Minister toe. Ek weet hulle stem saam, maar hulle hoef darem nou nie oor te stap na mekaar toe nie. Agb Adjunkspeaker, daar word groot gewag gemaak van die aanhef van die grondwet wat deel is van hierdie eed, maar ons weet, en die agb Minister het daarna verwys, dat dit net die eerste deel is, want die tweede deel waarna daar baie duidelik verwys word, ook na erkenning, word weggelaat. Met ander woorde, die eerste deel wat net verwys na die ongeregtighede van die verlede, wil die agb Minister daar hê. Wat sê daardie tweede deel? Die tweede deel sê, "Ons respekteer diegene wat gewerk het om die land te bou en te ontwikkel en glo Suid-Afrika behoort aan almal wat daarin bly en in ons diversiteit verenig."
Nou wil ek vir die agb Minister sê, u respekteer met ander woorde, nie die mense wat die land gebou en ontwikkel het nie. U het nie vanmiddag iets nuuts hier kom sê nie, inteendeel, u het eintlik hier kom sê hoekom u nie verder aan die tweede deel aandag wil gee nie: u dink ons is skaam oor ons verlede. Nou laat ek vir die agb Minister sê, ek is nie skaam oor my verlede nie. Ek is trots op my geskiedenis. Nie die Minister of die ANC regering sal my skaam maak vir my verlede nie.
Ek wil vir die agb Minister ook verder sê dis juis die blanke jeug en die kinders van vandag wat die slagoffers van regstellende aksie is, wat nie eens gebore is in apartheid nie, wat die prys daarvoor moet betaal. Ek wil vir die Minister sê u onderrok hang uit. U wil die Pandor-eed misbruik om ons kinders te indokrineer en by hulle 'n skuldgevoel op te wek dat hulle die verlede en daardeur ook hul herkoms, net boos en verkeerd was. Die Minister wil beslag lê op ons kinders se gewete onder die dekmantel dat ons mekaar se regte moet respekteer.
Agb Minister, ons sal dit nie toelaat in die VF Plus nie. Ons verskil van die ANC en die DA en ek wil vandag vir u sê dat u artikel 15 van die Grondwet moet onthou wat sê dat ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... ons elkeen die reg op 'n vry gewete het.
Mr M V NGEMA
END OF TAKE
Mnr P J GROENEWALD
Mr M V NGEMA: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. While the people of South Africa cannot forget about the atrocities of the past as the wounds run too deep, our children need to be able to focus on deepening democracy and holding the South African flag high, and on ensuring that they continue giving back to the development of our country into a land of milk and honey.
Regardless of one's religious creed, the school pledge is a form of prayer to a higher being and the universe. Thus, as we all know, the law of attraction says the more you think about what you do not want, the more you invite it into your experience as the universe responds.
Therefore, it is based on this premise that we would not want our children to be caused to speak about apartheid every day, since they still have the opportunity to learn about our past in their history lessons.
The children of South Africa should have a pledge which will evoke the emotions of patriotism, honour, dignity and respect, emotions which will allow them to be model citizens and a nation of achievers, which will strive to continue the success and prosperity of their land.
The ruling party has the privilege of leading us by their mandate. Thus, there is no need to rush in to implement the pledge. I must say, Minister, that I wrote this before you gave the assurance that this is not a fait accompli. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI / Src(Afr) / VM/Mme(Eng) / MC(Xhs)/END OF TAKE
Mr M V NGEMA
MOTLATSA-SEBUI: Motlotlegi rre Mfundisi nna ke ipela ka loleme
lwa ga mme.
English:
Today is International Mother Language Day.
Setswana:
Rre I S MFUNDISI: Motlotlegi Motlatsa-Sebui, le ditokololo tse di tlotlegang tsa Ntlo e, re lebogela gore go nne le tšhono ya go akantshanya ka moano o o ikaeletsweng o, le gore go tla nna le go ipatla maikutlo fa nako e ntse e tswelela.
English:
The UCDP is in principle not averse to the school pledge. As we have just indicated, this pledge is not to be seen as cast in stone. We accept what the Minister has just said and we hope we will deepen the debate around it.
The American pledge, on which the proposed one is based, was introduced in 1892 and debated by the public to the extent that Congress had an input as to how such a pledge would affect the nation. It was no surprise that in 1954, Congress, under President Eisenhower, added the words "under God" to indicate that all people are subservient to the living God.
Our concern as the UCDP is that the pledge, in its present form, is more humanistic. It portrays more of a world view.
In the state of the nation debate last week, I proposed that as we are concerned about the declining morals among our pupils, boy-scouting and girl-guiding as character-building movements should be introduced. The scout promise is very simple and goes like this:
On my honour I promise that I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country;
To help other people at all times;
To obey the Scout Law.
Reference is made to the country, the people and God. It is simple and straightforward. From our position, we maintain that there is no need to keep harping on about the injustices of the past when there is a future to look forward to.
We in the UCDP maintain that the pledge may be too difficult for primary-school children, unless they will be made to recite it like parrots without understanding it. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms S RAJBALLY
END OF TAKE
Mr I S MFUNDISI
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, we South Africans are plus/minus 14 years into democracy and have accepted each other never mind colour, creed, race and culture, recognising the injustices of the past. The MF is concerned as to what will be the understanding of the public and their reaction in respect of the pledge.
Hon Minister, arising from the comments of various newspapers, it seems as if there has to be much more public participation and total understanding before the pledge is implemented, and possibly looking into rewording the pledge. Therefore, the MF kindly requests that more time be given to the public to comment further in respect of the pledge. I thank you.
Mr N T GODI
END OF TAKE
Ms S RAJBALLY
Mr N T GODI: Madam Deputy Speaker, comrades and hon members, the APC welcomes and supports the school pledge. We dare say that anyone opposed to the pledge does so for wholly unpatriotic reasons.
The democratic dispensation has, correctly so, emphasised the rights of individuals and society. However, it now needs to be balanced by introducing and stressing responsibilities that go with these rights, especially for the young ones. The future that we want to build, the values that our youth must live by and the shaping of their outlook: these cannot be left to chance.
If we appreciate the challenges out there of poor discipline, truancy, violence in schools, drug abuse, dysfunctional families and community life, then we certainly do need an intervention that seeks to help our young people focus properly in the best interests of society and their own future. We need to bring up the youth to be conscious of its responsibilities to society, that is patriotic and lives up to the values of ubuntu.
This is a national cause that requires us to rise above our narrow partisan positions. The APC encourages parents, teachers and us as members to join hands in this national effort to promote and explain the rationale behind the pledge. The introduction of the school pledge is one of the most important milestones in our dialectical march towards a consolidated nationhood. Responsible citizenry is not just wished for; it is built consciously. The school pledge is one such effort. I thank you. [Applause.]
Dr S E M PHEKO
END OF TAKE
Mr N T GODI
Dr S E M PHEKO: Deputy Chairperson, first of all, let me thank the Minister for her linguistic skills. I appreciate that she can speak the good languages in the way she did.
Let me say that in response to the President's state of the nation address, the hon Holomisa repeated that this nation requires a national indabaor convention to deal with various national issues. In his reply, President Thabo Mbeki welcomed this view together with that of the hon Dr Buthelezi and the hon Mgabadeli.
It is more sensible to deal with the issue of the proposed school pledge after hearing what the national indaba has to say on such a matter. At the moment this pledge is not unifying this nation; it is controversial.
Among other things, the proposed school pledge reads: "We honour those who suffered and sacrificed for justice and freedom." In practice, this has not happened after 12 years - now. Some freedom fighters have been overhonoured at the expense of others. Important places have been named in a sectarian way. The selected freedom fighters have been given state funerals, but others who have a matchless history of struggle have been ignored. There is the "Sobukwe Clause"; there is Sharpeville and Langa; there is Robben Island; there is the Soweto uprising; there is the expulsion of apartheid South Africa from the United Nations; there is the battle of Villa Peri where General Gerald Kondlo of the Azanian People's Liberation Army fell. They are heroes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!
Dr S E M PHEKO: Heroes are heroes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
Dr S E M PHEKO: They must be given honour, equal honour. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr L M GREEN
END OF TAKE
Dr S E M PHEKO
Mr L M GREEN: Deputy Speaker, before I speak on the issue, let me remind the hon Minister of Education that I have no intention of jumping to another party. Hon Minister, you should know, being part of the tripartite alliance, what an alliance is. You join as a party and not as an individual, and you retain your individual party structure and leadership before and after elections.
Be that as it may, the FD does not have any objection to a school pledge in principle if it will help to nurture among our youth a respect for a group of values centred around responsibility, citizenship and personal wellbeing. As we all know, a pledge formulated in the year 2000 does exist with the Education department and which, according to our views, captures the primary ethos and spirit of our Constitution in language that resonates with the emotional, intellectual and spiritual intelligence of the child. The old pledge aims to heal all scars of the past, which include hurts from the history of racism, the Anglo-Boer War and many other hurts, including apartheid laws. It seeks to bring not only schoolchildren, but also the nation as a whole onto a course of reconciliation. Like the national anthem, which is supported by all our communities and which is sung at all our national events, a school pledge should evoke the same pride and support by all our citizens. The old pledge reads, and let me quote:
I promise to be loyal to my country, South Africa, and do my best to promote its welfare and the wellbeing of all its citizens. I promise to show self-respect in all that I do and to respect all my fellow citizens and all of our various traditions. Let us work for peace, friendship and reconciliation and heal the scars left by the past conflicts, and let us build a common destiny together.
What a wonderful quotation we have here. What a wonderful way to give support through this kind of pledge.
I would like to ask the hon Minister to tell the House whether she has any reservations concerning the old pledge – the old pledge. I'm talking about the 2000 pledge; the pledge that I have just read now.
The FD wishes to recommend that if not, then let's use both pledges to put forward for public participation for the people to decide, or rework the new pledge to reflect elements of both.
In conclusion, a school pledge must of necessity be apolitical. It must be free from any form of indoctrination, while being fundamentally educational in nature with the intent to develop a child's keen interest to pursue knowledge and to learn to live and engage in a society blessed with a diversity of cultures. So, as I have said, as the FD, we do not have any objection to a school pledge. I thank you.
Prof S M MAYATULA
Keh / END OF TAKE
Mr L M GREEN
Prof S M MAYATULA: Chairperson and hon members, my aim in this presentation is to clear up a number of misconceptions and myths which has clouded the debate on this issue. The Minister has referred to some of them.
The biggest misconception is that this is the final version of the pledge and that the people of our country will not be given any chance to make their contributions. Surely, the interested parties could not be expected to comment on nothing? The pledge, as it stands, will be gazetted and every citizen of goodwill will have time to comment and add value to it.
The following are some of the statements reflected in the print media on which I would like to comment, and the hon members on my left even had the same kind of thinking. According to Taryn Hodgson of the Christian Action Network, "It appears the ANC are planning to replace prayer and Bible reading in schools with a new religious rite ... complete with an oath of allegiance to the secular Constitution." Nowhere in our Constitution or in the statutes is anybody prevented from praying, reading the Bible or worshipping in any form whatsoever, and wherever, including in our schools.
In the school that my Christian granddaughter attends, the Muslim community has requested and have been allowed to take their children at 12:30 on Fridays to engage in their religious activities. What prevents us as Christians from doing the same thing?
As a Christian I sometimes find it difficult to understand the fundamentalist approach of some of my Christian friends, who want us to force down everybody's throats one and only one religion: the Christian religion.
IsiXhosa:
Ewe, Mhlalingaphambili, mna ndiyakholelwa ukuba likhona izulu, kwanokuba indlela eya ezulwini igqitha kuYesu ebethelelwe emnqamlezweni. Bakhona abathi akukho nto ilizulu. Abanye bathi indlela eya ezulwini igqitha kwizinyanya. Abanye bakhonza imifanekiso eqingqiweyo. Khon' ukuba bakhonza ihagu okanye idonki, indikhathaza ngabuni loo nto? Ndingubani mna ukuba ndingabanqanda, ndibabonise indlela yokukhonza? Khon' ukuba baye kungena esihogweni?; yeyabo leyo.
English:
According to Jody Kollapen, the head of the SA Human Rights Commission, "the proposed pledge for school should include practical programmes if it is to be effective as a tool for nation-building." Mr Kollapen is right to call for practical programmes. But I want to assure him that these values are already included in the curriculum. I would like to refer him in particular to the life orientation syllabus in which these values are contained. The pledge is meant to reinforce these values.
Mr Kollapen goes on to quote some white South Africans who reacted by saying: "I'm not going to allow my child to say this pledge while there are some crooks in power;" or, "I'm not going to pledge allegiance to corrupt politicians." People in power, whether corrupt or not corrupt, come and go. This is not a pledge to politicians; it is a pledge to our country.
IsiXhosa:
Bagotywa bebatsha abantwana.
English:
Despite the ills of society, let us work together to win for our children a better future. The pledge will go a long way towards this goal.
I fully agree with Brian Westgate, who proposes that the pledge should be "tailored to better suit the whole nation". He goes on to say: "Surely a pledge should have the purpose of generating love and respect for one another as well as patriotism in drawing us together as a nation?"
If we accept that this pledge is just a draft - I'm now addressing the members ... The members now have gone a step further to comment on the pledge in that it is short, it is long, it is not doing ... This pledge is going to be gazetted so that we can add exactly that. Once we have added those, we'll come with a new pledge which all of us are going to own. I think somebody over there said that this must be driven by experts. Surely, we are here as experts who have been elected by our people to drive these things?
The hon Sigcau referred to the content again when she said, it is bringing us back. I don't know why. It is too long; the language is difficult. The Gazette is there; look at it; make your proposal; make it short; make it understandable. We will look into that.
The hon Hoosen said that this was indoctrination. He said there was no consultation. Again, you would say that if you think that this is a finished product, but consultations will happen. I think the hon Dudley said that this was dividing rather than uniting. I don't know what is doing that because, as we speak, we don't have a pledge as yet. It behoves all of us to come up with a pledge which is going to be uniting.
The hon Groenewald said, on the content of the pledge, that he is not ashamed of the past. We constantly stand on these platforms remembering the Holocaust, remembering this and that which happened long ago, so that we know where we have come from and don't go back there. When we say this is the issue, we are not saying people must go back there. At least, if you know where there is a hole, you will not get that hole again. I must tell you: This is the hole. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
MS (English)//zc/MC(Xho)/ MLC English checked/END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Prof S M MAYATULA
PUSHING BACK THE FRONTIERS OF POVERTY
(IPU Topic for Debate)
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson and hon members, poverty in its many forms and manifestations continues to be a serious challenge in our country, in the Southern African Development Community region, on the continent of Africa and in the developing world in general.
The plight of millions of people in the SADC region, on the African continent and in many countries in the world means that those of us who serve our people must work together as national governments, and come together in regional platforms and internationally collaborate so that we can contribute to pushing back the frontiers of poverty and engage the poverty challenge.
In our country, fighting poverty demands an undying commitment from all of us as national departments, provincial departments and local government. Ensuring that our policies and programmes talk to each other in an integrated and coherent manner, and are well co-ordinated is a challenge that we must pursue.
Indeed, the interventions that have been made by government in the past 13 years in the fight against poverty have been monumental. As we continue to endeavour to make the lives of our people better, especially the poorest of the poor, poverty and inequality remain critical challenges. However, our government and other committed sectors in the country created a vision and declared 13 years ago that the eradication of poverty was a war that we must win. In our Constitution, in our policies and programmes, our efforts are continuing and growing in this regard.
The eradication of poverty and the eventual transformation of South African society is indeed a long journey that is still far from its destination. To many of our people the very meaning of social transformation means freedom from hunger, disease and want, including the provision of proper shelter, quality health care and quality education and assistance from the government in cases of severe need and destitution.
Pushing back the frontiers of poverty did not just begin with the political liberation gained in 1994. It started with our rebellion and fight against colonial domination and exploitation in the workplace and the dispossession that were part of the discriminatory laws and system of the past. The rallying call of the ANC has been the eradication of poverty and the creation of a just and caring society defined by nonracialism, nondiscrimination of vulnerable groups such as the aged, orphans and the disabled, women and children, and nonsexism. It is this quest for a better society that continues to be the compass of our collective struggle against poverty.
The reality is that the fight against poverty was only given impetus after 1994 when a legitimate government was elected into power by the mass of our people. In turn, this government realigned the departments and agencies of the state so as to chart a new course of action in matters of social and human development.
The starting point of this process lay in the creation of a whole set of new institutions, policies and legislation to enable the new government to create a new society altogether. In this regard, nation-building became a key imperative of the transformation agenda. The new institutions, policies and legislation emboldened the transformation of the country. In very important ways, these policies and legislation allowed the government to open up new opportunities for the citizens to advance themselves in different areas of human endeavour.
The attainment of our political rights in South Africa enabled us to then begin tackling the question of socioeconomic rights. We believe that the two are not mutually exclusive.
It is this belief that prodded us to arrive at a Constitution that entrenched these socioeconomic rights. Today all South Africans have the right to access to different social services such as water, sanitation, shelter, social security, health, education and housing. This Constitution mirrors the collective will of our people to create a caring society.
Amongst many other interventions, our fight against poverty is driven by social assistance in the form of many social grants that are a central feature of our security system. About 12,5 million South Africans receive social grants, seven million of which are beneficiaries are children. There is strong evidence that South Africa's social grants are well targeted and account for a substantial share of the income of poor households.
Grants are associated with a greater share of household expenditure on food and therefore contribute and lead to improved nutrition for many people living in poverty. In particular, the child support grant contributes significantly to the health of young children.
Our stated position is that child poverty is an extremely unique form of poverty that requires long-term solutions. Nevertheless, the thinking in the government also rests on an appreciation of the multidimensional nature of poverty. Therefore multipronged interventions are relied upon in the fight against poverty.
Our continuing fight against poverty and making sure that we push back the frontiers of poverty involve different departments intervening in areas such as education and skills acquisition, land restitution, youth development, microfinancing, housing, the provision of clean water and sanitation, early childhood development, the Expanded Public Works Programme, HIV/Aids programmes, crime prevention, health and many other interventions.
It is also from this position that we see the growing of the economy as an important dimension towards poverty eradication. Economic growth must be linked to the goals of social development, and a stable and growing economy must translate into positive outcomes in the areas of human and social development. Our growth must be shared and its fruits spread, most importantly, to those households living in poverty.
The commitment of our government to poverty eradication has seen the formulation of a national comprehensive antipoverty strategy that will ensure that all our efforts in all government departments address the poverty challenge. Our departments in government seek to provide a safety net for those unable to earn sufficient income; to build social cohesion through the removal of risk; and to develop social, cultural and democratic engagement in the country.
We strive to help individual families, groups and communities to engage with the economy and society through quality education and health care, access to infrastructure, safety and security and cultural and sports development.
As an example, the Department of Social Development meets some of these obligations through community development, retirement reforms, income security and social welfare services. Furthermore, evidence-based research for policy decision-making has become one major thrust in our undertakings. In this way, our interventions are clearly informed by research that is guided by empirical experience and evidence.
The journey that we began in 1994 is gaining momentum in that our people can be catered for from birth to old age through the creation of quality jobs and social programmes and interventions. This means therefore that an integrated and holistic approach towards poverty eradication has become our second rallying call after liberation. It is in this spirit that the antipoverty strategy for South Africa has been conceptualised. This strategy is underpinned by key pillars. These pillars cover basic income security, household services and housing, investment in human capital, comprehensive health care, the creation of economic opportunities, access to assets, and social cohesion.
Our commitment to a better life for all is not only confined to being within our borders. We are also involved in international solidarity efforts, especially on the African continent. Our struggle for liberation predisposes us to help in the reconstruction efforts in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and in Burundi, and with peace efforts in Sudan and Zimbabwe. There are also partnerships with our compatriots in countries in the South which are important in shaping global discourse around poverty and social cohesion and inclusion. We aim to find ways of reshaping processes of globalisation in a humane way. Our participation in the India-Brazil-South Africa trilateral arrangement is thus significant. Interaction with our counterparts in Latin America, from Chile or Mexico, will also help in shaping new agendas and antipoverty measures by offering alternative models.
Pushing back the frontiers of poverty is a commitment we have championed at various levels and we shall continue to do so. We all have a common agenda around human dignity and the rights of our citizens. Indeed, it is these people who voted us into power in the first place, so, as we share our views on this issue of poverty, let us not forget our primary custodians: the common people. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J SELFE
SlR / END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Mr J SELFE: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. This debate is taking place because the subject for discussion is also the theme of the forthcoming Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, to be held in Cape Town between 13 April and 18 April this year.
Perhaps because of our fairly busy schedules, I find that far too few MPs are aware of the IPU and the work that it actually does. When people ask me what the IPU is, I say that the IPU is to parliaments what the United Nations is to governments. In just the same way as governments need to meet to act collectively to deal with the challenges facing us all, so do parliaments. Indeed, parliaments must scrutinise and ratify treaties that are negotiated at the United Nations and in other multilateral forums.
Parliaments must hold their executives to account for the conduct of foreign policy and they must pass the legislation necessary to give effect to international treaties and conventions. For these reasons, it is essential that the IPU and the UN work closer together to develop common solutions to overcome global problems.
Clearly, one of the most serious challenges facing the world is the reduction of poverty. This challenge is, of course, very real in South Africa. When a homeless person dies in the middle of a metropolitan area, as one very recently did in the centre of Cape Town, it should bring home to all of us the very extensive nature of this challenge.
But to deal with this challenge, we must also understand what it is we are dealing with. During November of last year, a polemic developed between the SA Institute of Race Relations, on the one hand, and the President and Mr Netshitenzhe, on the other, concerning whether levels of poverty had increased or decreased in South Africa under the ANC's administration.
Much of this polemic centres on how one defines poverty, and at what level one can be said to be "living in poverty". The polemic spawned a whole debate surrounding the terms such as "money-metric poverty", the "poverty gap" and the "severity of poverty". Participants in this polemic chose different sources of information and of measurement.
The polemic certainly gave rise to very heated exchanges. In his letter in ANC Today of 16 November to 22 November 2007, for example, the then President of the ANC said:
The South African Institute of Race Relations relies on a definition of poverty that is radically different from the one spelt out in the RDP and described by Statistics SA. Necessarily, this produces a distortion of our reality which amounts to a falsification of this reality.
The SA Institute of Race Relations cited a study conducted in 2006 by Global Insight Southern Africa. Other studies, such as that conducted by the UNDP, came to different conclusions using different methodologies.
Yet even the UNDP, quoted approvingly by Joel Netshitentzhe, indicated that while the proportion of people living in poverty had fallen in percentage terms between 1995 and 2002, 48,5% of the South African population were still living in poverty at the end of this period.
Even Mr Netshitentzhe conceded that 21,9 million people in South Africa were living in poverty in 2002.
The point I am really trying to make is this: that while economists and statisticians argue about the definition of poverty and its extent, none of us in this House, and none of us in this nation, can deny that nearly half of our population are still living in poverty. It doesn't really matter whether this figure is increasing or decreasing in absolute or in percentage terms, there are still too many desperately poor people in South Africa, people who must, on a daily basis, struggle simply to stay alive.
The question is not so much who is living in poverty and how many are living in poverty, but what must be done, as the ANC always puts it, "to push back the frontiers of poverty".
The President announced in the state of the nation address "the institution of a war room on poverty". Good and well, but who are the generals to command this war, and what are the strategies that are going to be employed?
Up until now, the government's chief mechanism to alleviate poverty has been rolling out various forms of social grants. The number of beneficiaries grew from R2,6 million in 1994 to R10,5 million in 2005 and to R12,5 million this year. This comes at a cost: social grants cost R10 billion in 1994, rising to R55 billion in 2005. This gives rise to questions about sustainability and affordability in the long-term.
The growth in employment has been less impressive: the number of employed people in South Africa increased from 11,1 million in 2001 to 12,8 million in 2006, despite an average rate of economic growth of 4,5% per year over this period.
Because if we really want to win the war against poverty, we must create jobs so that people themselves can get ahead. Social grants obviously have their place, as do programmes like the Expanded Public Works Programme, but these should be used as a safety net for those who, for reasons they have no control over, cannot look after themselves. These should not be the dominant feature of our antipoverty efforts, and they certainly should not entrench dependency.
So what should the state be doing? In the sort of society we want to create in South Africa, one's path in life should not be determined by one's birth but rather by one's talents and one's efforts.
The role of the state must be to empower individuals and to facilitate their development whilst individuals should be left to determine how best to direct their lives.
This does not imply a minimalist state. The state obviously plays crucial role in development, but the objective of development must be to expand the choices and broaden the opportunities of ordinary citizens, and especially the poor.
In South Africa, which must overcome the legacy of underdevelopment and discrimination, the state has a cardinal role to play in ensuring access for all to quality education and skills development, by ensuring access to capital, by providing decent health care and sanitation, and by facilitating economic growth through the provision of infrastructure and a competition-friendly regulatory environment. In short, the state must give a hand-up, not a hand-out.
We are pleased to note that many of these principles have seen expression in yesterday's Budget. If we put these measures in place, we will indeed provide ladders for people to lift themselves out of poverty and we can indeed push back the frontiers of poverty. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE
Mme / END OF TAKE
Mr J SELFE
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, Mr Selfe has concentrated a little on poverty in South Africa. I think the idea of the Inter-Parliamentary Union is more to look at poverty in the world.
I've listened to poverty eradication debates for too many years to recall. I've listened to them in Washington, London, Geneva, Strasbourg, Beijing, Cuba, and in many other cities of the world. I've listened to too many firm resolutions on how we are going to eradicate poverty.
I've heard about time schedules, of cutting down poverty by certain target dates, and of percentages to be reduced. But in the end, these appear to be only words, words, words; just more and more resolutions and resolutions and resolutions all over the world on how to eradicate poverty. And the end result in the world: the rich get richer and the poor poorer. That, unfortunately, is the end result. Very little comes from the millions of words spoken from dozens of podiums over many decades on how to eradicate poverty. Call me a pessimist if you so wish, because I am going to say we will once again be faced with words and resolutions at the forthcoming IPU meeting - words, words and beautiful resolutions on how to eradicate poverty. Thereafter, it is going to be the same: the rich will get richer and the poor poorer.
So what are we to do about this? There can be only one solution: that is to create the will to eradicate poverty – I repeat, the will to eradicate poverty - because that does not exist at this stage.
This has been the same with global warming. It took years to foster a strong political will to do something about global warming. It took Al Gore getting his teeth into global warming for things to start happening. To eradicate poverty, you need more than one Al Gore. You need many of them.
The time has arrived for many dozens of prominent persons from all over the world to form a strong structure to address world poverty. The Bill Gates types of billionaires, retired prominent politicians, academics, churches, statesmen, ordinary people, and others from the entire spectrum of world society should get their teeth into world poverty. They must demonstrate the will to eradicate poverty. They must form a massive structure to do so and produce results – more than just words and beautiful resolutions.
In conclusion, let it therefore be written that it was in Cape Town in the year 2008 that the solution was born on how to really eradicate poverty. The world has to unite against poverty. Thank you. [Applause.]
Adv Z L MADASA
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE
Adv Z L MADASA: Hon Chairperson, I think the hon Van der Merwe must just keep quiet if he is tired of debating. We have to continue to debate or present a debate. [Interjections.]
My job is to explain why we are affiliated with the Inter-Parliamentary Union, what the IPU is, and how we can make it work. Before I do so, on behalf of the ANC, I would like – as we debate the relevance, importance and the role of the IPU in the fight for a better life for all – to pay sincere tribute to the Cuban people and their leader, Fidel Castro, as he retires voluntarily from leading the Cuban revolution.
The honourable Castro and the Cuban people dedicated their lives for almost 50 years, since their revolution in 1959, to fight for a better life for all in the world. It is their personal sacrifice in the fight for self-determination and political freedom that has contributed to the defeat of apartheid and the attainment of our freedom in 1994. It is apposite to note, as a lesson for us in South Africa post-1994, that the sustainability of the Cuban revolution against the imperial might of the USA – hardly 50 kilometres away from Havana – can be safely attributed to the discipline of their leadership and their people. The Cubans long understood the inextricable nexus between the character of the cadre and the successful execution of their revolution. Long live Fidel Castro, long live!
What is the IPU? We must answer this question in order to continue to mobilise our people to support our efforts to mobilise international solidarity for a better life for all. We can only do so if we continue, as this debate seeks to do, to close the gap of knowledge between us, the people's representatives, and the people we represent. Our Constitution enjoins us, as Members of Parliament, to ensure that there is public involvement in the affairs of Parliament.
The letters "IPU" are the abbreviation for Inter-Parliamentary Union – what I call a parliament of all parliaments of the world. Parliaments from all over the world are represented in the IPU by multiparty delegations chosen by domestic parliaments to represent their countries at the IPU assembly each and every year.
The IPU is led by an executive committee at the helm of which is the president, and there is a secretary-general who runs the administration of parliament. The office bearers of the executive of the IPU are elected to their positions by the governing council, which comprises delegations of all parliaments that are members of the IPU.
Like domestic parliaments, the IPU has standing committees that deal with different subjects that are of international importance. For example, there is the subject on international peace and security. Recently, a new committee was formed that looks at the relationship between the United Nations and the IPU in order to forge links between these two important international bodies.
A question may arise in the minds of some in this House and the public at large whether it was necessary for the democratic Parliament post-1994 to be affiliated with the IPU and spend money on subscriptions and the travelling of delegations of the IPU around the world.
Speaking for the ANC, since inception, the ANC - like the Cuban leadership - understood that mobilisation of international human solidarity is a critical pillar of the struggle for a better life for all. This strategy of creating international allies is born out by the proper objective analysis that poverty and underdevelopment are as a result of an inequitable global economic order that is deliberately inflicted on the weaker nations by imperialist and colonial forces.
The ANC understands that whilst the elite leadership of neo-colonial forces may use state power and economic might to continue to exploit the weaker states and peoples of the world, the masses in those dominant states are not necessarily in support of those oppressive tendencies. We have seen progressive masses all over the world protesting, as with the Iraq war, against exploitation and repressive regimes anywhere in the world. The ANC has long believed in the people's power as a strategic tool in the war against poverty.
At the Polokwane conference the ANC restated its long-held view of the need to engage in international bodies and resolved that:
We need to respond to the challenge of imperialism. The ANC needs to strengthen itself and other progressive forces and develop a common agenda with an objective of realising a better life. Such a world order must be characterised by, inter alia, greater equilibrium between the poor and the rich. In this we are guided by the ANC principles for a better life for all and a vision for a better Africa and the world.
The international front was one of the key pillars of the struggle that led to the defeat of the apartheid regime and remains one of the catalysts in the creation of a better world.
But how, in reality, has our Parliament engaged with the IPU to realise this vision of a better life for all? Successive South African IPU delegations have interacted with other progressive like-minded members of delegations from other parliaments to ensure that the agenda of the IPU remains focused on the issues of social injustices like poverty. But the IPU, like other international bodies, is a terrain of contestation, of opposing political views.
From South Africa, especially in the ANC, we continue to interact with other delegations in order to put the issue of economic development permanently on the agenda of the IPU. The topic we are debating today: pushing back the frontiers of poverty, which will be debated by the IPU when the assembly takes place in South Africa, was the suggestion of this Parliament.
As members may have noticed the President, Mr Mbeki, in the state of the nation address, also committed the government to establishing a war room against poverty. This is so because of the genuine commitment of the ANC and its allies to ensure a better life for all. It is not a coincidence, therefore, that our Parliament has also put the eradication of poverty as the central concern of the IPU.
Some may say that the issue of fighting poverty, as they have said today, has long been canvassed. I sincerely believe that a public representative who does not know where the poor live ought not to be in the House. According to reports of the United Nations Human Rights Council, Africa has about six million refugees and about 12,7 million internally displaced people in 20 countries. Africa, according to this report, remains the largest recipient of humanitarian assistance as a result of natural disasters, conflicts and the inequitable global order.
These statistics are not only a depressingly frightening indication of the magnitude of human suffering, but are also a revelation of the extent of the deliberate infliction, by the powerful, of wounds of exploitation on innocent masses.
But none of these lofty ideals can be a success without the dedication of the critical agent for change, which is the Member of Parliament. We, as MPs, need to redouble our efforts to ensure that the monies that are paid by our government at domestic level, international level and in terms of the United Nations that are meant to eradicate poverty are, in fact, used for that purpose. We must use our positions to change the situation.
To answer the hon Selfe, therefore, the generals to fight poverty are the MPs themselves. We must do so as enough money has been spent in South Africa, on the continent and globally to fight poverty, but this money does not reach the people. We must ensure that the money reaches the people. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr G T MADIKIZA
Mia//AKJ / END OF TAKE
Adv Z L MADASA
Mr G T MADIKIZA: Chairperson, hon members, the origin and the intentions of the Millennium Development Goals adopted nearly a decade ago by the nations of the world can be traced back to the central question that we are debating today. How do we reduce widespread poverty in the developing world? If we are concerned about pushing back the frontiers of poverty, then we need to look no further than the targets that were set in pursuit of the MDGs.
We don't need, as an individual Parliament, or collectively as the Inter-Parliamentary Union, to reinvent the wheel. We must ask ourselves: What have we done to realise the MDGs and, indeed, what have all the IPU members done? Where has the achievement of the MDGs featured on our individual and collective agendas?
Across vast areas of the planet, millions upon millions of people still go without the most basic housing, access to clean water, decent sanitation, reliable energy, proper education, basic health care or meaningful work.
Achieving these goals when the global agenda is dominated by war and conflict is difficult, just like the international economic and trade agenda is more concerned with disputes, self-preservation and turf wars, which push the question of fairness and collective action against poverty to the sidelines. Yet, it is patently obvious that continued widespread poverty is detrimental to the political, economic and social objectives of the nations of the world.
It is our duty, as a nation and as a collective in the IPU, to put the Millennium Development Goals back at the top of the international agenda to remind ourselves and the rest of the world that poverty that grips so many is a stain upon our humanity and makes a mockery of all our so-called great achievements. I thank you.
Mr I E JENNER
END OF TAKE
Mr G T MADIKIZA
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon I E Jenner, I am told that this is your maiden speech. Welcome!
Mr I E JENNER: Thank you, Chairperson.
Afrikaans:
Agb Speaker, ek staan vandag hier namens my party, die OD, om ons standpunt met betrekking tot armoede uitwissing te stel. In die eerste plek wil ek my dank uitspreek teenoor my party leierskap wat my in hierdie posisie geplaas het, en hulle verseker dat ek my taak na die beste van my vermoë sal verrig.
Armoede is 'n universele probleem wat geen kleurgrens, afkoms, lokaliteit, geslag of politieke affiliasie ken nie. Die armoede vraagstuk in ons land vereis kollektiewe en universele verantwoordelikheid. Hoe ernstig is ons regering werklik met armoede uitwissing as soveel lede vandag afwesig is in so 'n belangrike debat? Die OD is die eerste party wat bereid is om in die openbaar te erken dat die uitdagings wat armoede teweegbring, politieke grootmoedigheid vereis asook 'n inklusiewe benadering en eenheid van poging, maar bowenal 'n nuwe verbintenis tot die sosiale kontrak tussen die burgers en die regering. Die mense van die kontinent is in afwagting om die resultaat van kollektiewe verantwoordelik te sien impakteer op hul lewens.
Ons ondersteuningsbasis bestaan hoofsaaklik uit die armstes onder die armes en dus is dit ons pleidooi dat armoede nie langer as 'n politieke speelbal gebruik kan word nie. Armoede impakteer verskillend op verskeie gebiede, afhangend van die verskillende faktore en plaaslike dinamika. As die president van ons land ernstig was in sy benadering in sy staatsrede, "All hands on deck," is die OD die eerste party wat sal deel vorm van hierdie eerste linie van verdediging in die stryd teen armoede. Ons sal die regering deeglik monitor in die implementeringsfase om seker te maak dat die programme, projekte asook die oplossing sover moontlik, die hele nasie bereik.
Die OD wil die noodkreet van die armes van die kontinent herbevestig dat "genoeg is genoeg." Die OD sal die regerende party se politiek toets, want die agb Minister van Finansies het herhaaldelik in sy begrotingsrede gesê, "We are in this together." Ons wil ook 'n beroep doen op die regerende party om die departemente in rat te kry, om seker te maak dat die stryd teen armoede die aksie sal bespoedig en die passie sal … [Tussenwerpsels.] [Tyd verstreke.] Dankie.
Mr H B CUPIDO
Mr I E JENNER
Mr H B CUPIDO: Hon Chairperson, may just I congratulate the hon Jenner on his maiden speech.
Afrikaans:
Sy nooienstoespraak.
English:
Chairperson, according to a survey done by the Global Insight Southern Africa, Regional Economics Focus 2005, there happens to be a disturbing increase in the number of people living on less than one dollar per day from 1996 to 2004. During 1996, the proportion of people living on less than one dollar per day was 4,5% and this increased to more than 9% during 2004.
It was also found that the situation worsened for those in the lower income brackets, while those who started off with more had better financial gains. It is, therefore, proven again that those who have will receive more, and those who do not have from them will even be taken.
Afrikaans:
Ek kan met die agb Koos van der Merwe hier saamstem dat die rykes sal ryker word en tot in die bestryding van armoede sal die wat die armoede bestry aand die einde van die dag eintlik iets daaruit kry.
English:
The poor will always be with us. The ACDP, therefore, would like to congratulate the hon Minister of Finance on yet another attempt to drive back the frontiers of poverty through the announcements in his Budget Speech yesterday. More and better management of funds can only address a small part of what is really needed to combat poverty in our country. I also want to agree with the hon Minister in his address this afternoon in which he mentioned the responsibilities and functions that the different departments need to play in order to combat poverty.
The bread price, as addressed by the ACDP in this House, and the price of maize should receive greater attention from our government. South Africa's able-bodied citizens should realise that without self-employment or self-empowerment, better education and hard work, driving back the frontiers of poverty becomes impossible. People must be prepared to play an active role in the economy of our country. No sweat, no sweet!
Success comes by working hard and not giving up on oneself and the ones that you love. The development of personal capacity and the transfer of skills from one generation to another will make a difference in driving out poverty. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr T M MASUTHA
src/afr //sd (Eng) / END OF TAKE
Mr H B CUPIDO
Mr T M MASUTHA: Hon Chairperson, colleagues, as a country and a people we have come a long way to be where we are today despite the many challenges that still persist. The liberties that we enjoy, the economic stability or even prosperity that is increasingly being enjoyed by many amongst our people across the racial, gender and other divides should never be taken for granted. More amongst our people who live in rural, peri-urban and other historically marginalised areas have access to clean water, electricity, decent housing, health care and free education.
Through its progressive labour market and human resource policies, the ANC-led government, together with other social partners, is slowly making a dent in the unacceptably high levels of unemployment made possible through robust economic growth and efforts to increase skills levels, especially amongst the youth. The Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition, the government flagship programme for job creation, for example, created some 18 319 jobs in the past year.
The general household survey covering the period of 2002 to 2006 reveals, amongst other things, that among learners aged between seven and 15 years attendance rates rose from 96,3% in 2002 to 97,9% in 2005, even though it declined slightly to 97,7% in 2006.
Education has been identified by the ANC Polokwane conference as a critical priority, hence the massive allocation of over a R100 billion announced in the Budget Speech yesterday by the Minister of Finance. An amount of R1,2 billion was allocated to FET colleges last years to reinforce government's skills drive.
Regarding access to health care, there was a decline in 2006 in the percentage of persons covered by medical aid schemes: 13,7% in 2006 compared to the 15,2% in 2002, hence there is the need to move with some speed towards the implementation of a national health insurance system to increase access to health care for all as per the resolutions of the past national conferences of the ANC.
However, some 320 447 HIV/Aids patients were receiving ARVs, of which 32 312 were children by the end of 2007. In addition, some 68 178 community caregivers were receiving stipends by the end of 2007. The percentage of households that live in informal structures though, commonly referred to as shacks, rose from 12,7% in 2002 to 14,5% in 2006, continuing to be a major challenge.
The percentage of households that receive government housing subsidies increased from 5,5% in 2002 to 9,6% in 2006. However, 260 000 units are currently being delivered per annum through human settlement programmes. The percentage of households that use electricity for lighting rose from 75% in 2002 to 81% in 2006, and at the end of 2007 some 3,3 million households had access to electricity.
It is heartening to note government's commitment to continuing to make electricity more accessible to the poor even in the face of prevailing shortages. Use of municipal services for refuse removal increased steadily from 55% of all households in 2002 to 60% in 2007.
The percentage of households that have access to piped water in their dwelling or on site rose from 66% in 2002 to 75% in 2007 and 68% of the poor population in general. The percentage of households that used bucket toilets or had no toilet facilities declined from 13,2% in 2002 to 8,2% in 2005, although it increased slightly to 8,6% in 2006 suggesting a need to intensify the campaign to eradicate this challenge completely in our country. Outstanding buckets, however, were reduced to 103 716 households out of a total of 300 000.
With regard to the social safety net provided through our social assistance programme, it is pleasing to see the significant growth in the take-up rate of various forms of social grants which currently total some 12,4 million beneficiaries compared to just of over 2 million at the dawn of our democracy.
Today some 2,2 million senior citizens are receiving the old age grant which, following the Minister of Finance's Budget Speech yesterday, will increase to R940 per month together with the disability grant. The three grant types aimed at supporting children, namely the child support grant, the foster care grant and the care dependency grant for severely disabled children, have experienced exponential growth.
Today some 8,2 million children from poor households are receiving the child support grant which was only introduced, by the way, in 1996-97. Let me pause here to remind us that we couched the concept of a primary caregiver as the beneficiary of the grant, that is, the child support grant who may not necessarily be the biological parent of the child, precisely in order to ensure that the money is given to the person who actually looks after the child.
I therefore urge grandparents who care for their grandchildren whilst the parents of the children are away or simply unable to do so to insist that they be the ones that receive the grant because the grant is meant to contribute towards the care of the child.
Foster care grants have increased in the past few years from about 50 000 to some 435 000 beneficiaries by the end of last year, whilst the care dependency grant rose to 102 children. Both these grants provide vital support to abandoned, orphaned and abused children as well as to severely disabled children respectively.
This is welcome news indeed, thanks to the Minister of Social Development who spoke here earlier and has pushed for this massive increase, because in the past African children especially struggled to obtain foster care placements on the assertion that they were in any case cared for within the extended family.
This excuse was used as a pretext to exclude African children.
As the ANC we have reaffirmed our commitment to redressing poverty and inequality, hence the massive allocations that have consistently been made in the Budget to social spending. On the back of macroeconomic stability, we have developed an antipoverty strategy that addresses the income asset and social poverty with the objective of eradicating poverty and creating employment.
In terms of our commitment to the Millennium Development Goals to halve poverty and unemployment by 2014, we are doubling up in our effort to fulfilling and realising the Millennium Development Goals in terms of education, health care, accommodation and the provision of basic services. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M V NGEMA
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Mr T M MASUTHA
IsiZulu:
Mnu M V NGEMA: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.
English:
In the short time allocated to me, allow me to make two points. The eradication of poverty largely depends on, firstly, ensuring that the rural poor are provided with opportunities to play an active role in the economy by identifying knowledge and policy gaps that could help governments build infrastructure that is geared towards improving the working and living conditions of the poor. This can be achieved by building infrastructure to ensure that the rural poor have access to energy and water.
Secondly, governments need to facilitate intraregional trade and investment, and address the special needs of land-locked countries in order for them to access the rest of the world.
Africa is unfortunately characterised by high levels of mortality, high levels of absolute poverty, a rise in malnutrition, disease and low literacy levels. In a study done by the Southern Africa Trust it was discovered that Southern Africa needed new and improved routes to ensure that the rural and urban poor are enabled to participate in development opportunities. In particular, proper roads would provide access to jobs, markets, social services and health facilities.
The study found and pointed out that integrated development planning was lacking. While the Southern African Development Community-corridor approach is potentially useful, weak organisation within the secretariat hampers the roll-out of effective transport progress. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Ms S RAJBALLY
Mnu M V NGEMA
IsiZulu:
Nk S RAJBALLY: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.
English:
It is clear that delivery has not been as easy as it appeared it would be in 1996. Our government has been grappling with challenges in every sector, and the people of our country remain disillusioned with the one-track desire for transformation and a better life.
We agree with the hon President that the vision and mission of South African government remains the same: to deliver a better life for all and acquire a true democracy free of poverty and societal inequalities. But how correct are we if we say that government is on track and acting efficiently in line with this?
It is criticism that paves the road to success and it is honest to say that we are challenged in delivery. We aim at diminishing poverty, but we are challenged by the growing cost of living. We are funding housing, but housing is challenged by contractual letdowns. We are striving to provide potable water, electricity and sanitation facilities, but we are challenged by power outages and threats of water shortages. We are servicing the young by introducing no-fee schools and feeding schemes, but we have the private-sector hiking up the bread price.
Poverty kills as it affects our people, but we need to focus on the roots of this societal retardation and halt the factors that hinder our growth and the advancement of our people.
We as Parliament need to look at addressing the cost of living and introduce measures that may service a balance of costs in view of basic necessities such as food, transport, medical costs, bond rates and the accessibility of all facilities. We strongly suggest that we increase our allocation to pensioners, who cannot possibly survive on the present grant they receive per month, and that we also look at extending the child grant to 18 years of age. As a legislature it is incumbent on us to oversee and institute legislation that will benefit our people. I thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms S D MOTUBATSE-HOUNKPATIN
Ms S RAJBALLY
END OF TAKE
Ms S D MOTUBATSE-HOUNKPATIN: House Chair and hon members, in this debate I wish to focus on the ANC work since 2004. In the manifesto in 2004 the organisation called on South Africans, saying: Let's have a contract to create work and to fight poverty together.
South Africans voted in big numbers, heeding this call, and they were saying to the ANC: You are our party of hope; we believe in your policies and together we will walk this path of darkness, meaning the darkness of poverty.
Indeed, the ANC committed itself to doing this work and the following has been done. In the first sitting of the third democratic Parliament, on 21 May 2004, President Thabo Mbeki said we are committed to:
... move our country forward decisively towards the eradication of poverty and underdevelopment in our country, taking care to enhance the process of social cohesion ...
... achieve further and visible advances with regard to the improvement of the quality of life of all our people, affecting many critical areas of social existence, including health, safety and security, moral regeneration, social cohesion, opening the doors of culture and education to all, and sport and recreation.
... successfully addressing the important challenges of persisting racial and gender inequalities, the disempowerment of our youth and people with disabilities, and proper care for children and the elderly.
In 2005 the President, in the state of the nation address, said to all South Africans: "Vukuzenzele".
Sesotho:
Ka Sesotho ba re: "Ha ho kgomo ya boroko, tsoha o eketsetse".
English:
Translated, it means that people should wake up and do something for themselves.
In 2006 South Africans agreed that today is better than yesterday and tomorrow will be better than today. Parliament then passed legislation and allowed government to draw up programmes that engage our communities to work together with government in alleviating poverty.
To quote a few pieces of legislation, last year we passed the Further Education and Training Bill and also education amendment laws to empower our people by making resources available for youth, especially young girls, to acquire skills in technical colleges. This legislation is also empowering parents to have a say in the education of their children. In terms of housing, Parliament passed legislation that allowed the department to allocate funds for the poor. I am talking here about the RDP houses, and we know at present that the subsidy has risen from R23 000 in 2004 to R36 000 in 2007.
Sepedi:
Tše kamoka tše ke mphiwafela. [All of these are for free.]
English:
When we talk about health, there is free health care for pregnant women and children under the age of six. Le yona ke mphiwafela. [It is also for free.] On electricity, our people are receiving free electricity that allows women to do other jobs, especially rural women, rather than taking a long time picking up wood in the veld. This electricity is free. Ke mphiwafela mo bathong ba rena. [It is for free to our people.]
There is also water supply: 6 kilolitres per household in urban areas, and in rural areas we know that there are taps close to our homes that allow women to fetch water nearby. Le wona ke mphiwafela. [It is also for free.]
Now, if we look at all these programmes providing shelter, land, housing, water, health and education, and also looking at the indigent policy, surely our government is committed to changing the lives of our people? And when we talk about changing the lives of our people or of pushing back the frontiers of poverty, we are talking about really changing the lives of women, because we also know that when Africa is spoken about they show a face of a woman and a child who are hungry and half naked. So by taking care of this, we are really changing the image of the continent as well.
I also want to call on you, hon members, not to undermine the impact of these policies and programmes, because as women we know that we are the worst hit by poverty and this contribution, small as it is, does change women's lives.
Surprisingly, we know that even in a household where the husband or the wife is not working, at the end of the day the husband will look to the wife, hoping to have something to eat but from where, because he knows that he did not give money. This is a question that you should ask yourself. We know that women are providers, poor as they are.
In conclusion, I want to raise a few things. I must first say that I appreciate Madam Speaker's effort to allow Parliament to give a mandate to the Inter-Parliamentary Union delegates and to also to give a report-back to this House. Clearly, this shows how important these topics are and how willing we are to strengthen those institutions we are participating in at an international level.
Now for all of us, as parliamentarians, to change the lives of the people in our countries and succeed in eradicating poverty, there are four things I identified that I would like to share with the House. Firstly, we must pass legislation that creates a good environment for practising or allowing trade and making business easy. This will also attract investment in our countries.
We should also make available soft loans for our people to access capital so that they can start their own businesses and be self-reliant. We must also focus on the youth, because they are the future. So, for sustainability of the economy in our country, we have to empower the youth especially the girl-child. We must ensure that our girl-children acquire the necessary skills, especially business skills, in order for them to be able to be proud mothers with financial independence.
We know that the economy is decisive. If we apply our minds to putting in the correct measures in the economy, surely we will eradicate poverty and our countries will become developed. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L M GREEN
keh(Sep)/ rm-sotho/END OF TAKE /ES/SlR
END OF TAKE
Ms S D MOTUBATSE-HOUNKPATIN
Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, hon members, fighting the scourge of hunger, poverty and the marginalisation of any person is a fundamental obligation of any government, and parliaments have the key oversight role to ensure that these obligations are met.
Over the past few years we have seen the prices of basic food products such as maize, bread and milk escalate enormously. Food prices are one of the two major contributors to rising inflation in South Africa today, but rising food prices are also a global phenomenon and most experts expect the trend to continue. The escalation is already having a disastrous impact on the poor and on low-income households, and any further rises will significantly increase food insecurity in many households.
It is still sad that for many countries in Africa, and after decades of independence from colonial rule, poverty is still hugely endemic to sub-Saharan Africa; while in other developing countries, especially Asia and South America, a marked decline in poverty has been recorded over the last decade. According to former World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz, poverty on the sub-continent, between 1981 and 2002, has continued to climb to more than an alarming 300 million people. This was said in a speech at theInter-Parliamentary Union assembly in Geneva, Switzerland, on 17 October 2006.
To push back the frontiers of poverty, Africa may, for the foreseeable future, still have to rely on debt relief from rich countries. The G8 countries with a number of donor agencies are committed to providing debt relief of more than US$36 billion to the poorest countries over the next 40 years.
Foreign financial aid will continue to be poured into poor countries to assist with various developmental needs. However, poor countries are still experiencing certain constraining conditions when it comes to accessing foreign funds. Afro-pessimism remains one of the key challenges that require action from African governments. Although African governments have, over recent years, developed initiatives to deal with their own problems among themselves, the timeframe required to measure the success of these initiatives is still too short. Despite this limitation, there are still disturbing trends in some African governments to suppress democracy and transparency, which impact on the rate of development in those countries.
In conclusion, the key to the effective fighting of poverty is in strengthening the role of parliaments on the continent. Any poverty-reduction strategy will have very little impact if it is not accompanied by broad-based participatory processes, upholding sound democratic legislative procedures and holding the executive to account. I thank you.
Ms N C MADLALA-ROUTLEDGE
END OF TAKE
Mr L M GREEN
Ms N C MADLALA-ROUTLEDGE: House Chair, we are having this debate in preparation for our Parliament's contribution to the IPU conference. As outlined earlier by others, the theme we are going to be debating is: Pushing back the frontiers of poverty in the context of globalisation, international trade and regional integration.
I also want to add my voice to thank the Speaker for allowing this debate to happen and to congratulate the staff, who are working very hard preparing us for this very important conference that is going to be taking place in our country.
The IPU is an important platform for representatives of parliaments worldwide to deliberate on issues that are new and unresolved on the international agenda before they placed on the agenda of the United Nations. This deliberation in the context of the IPU helps develop clarity and understanding of the issues at a global level rather than in our zones of comfort or discomfort, in the North or the South.
As a host and one of the countries of the South, South Africa would want to make a significant input to the understanding of poverty in the context of globalisation. This debate will help us develop the input of the delegation that will be representing our Parliament and our people.
I've used the word deliberation rather than debate in the spirit of the IPU, where the intention is not to win arguments, but to facilitate common understanding and clarity on issues before taking on a position. Another example of how the IPU does this is that delegations are allowed to split their votes when they hold different positions. It is about trying to find a creative way forward when confronted with seemingly intractable problems.
I was therefore disappointed when I listened to hon member Selfe who decided to devote his speech to attacking the government. I think what this debate is about is for us, as the South African Parliament, to prepare ourselves for what we are going to be saying at that conference. I don't think he had actually considered what the topic was and what this debate is about.
I want to talk about globalisation. Descriptions of globalisation refer to the integration of a country's politics and economics into a single world market, operating according to a global set of rules. The rules are intended to apply equally to rich industrialised countries and poor developing countries.
Globalisation is being facilitated by the introduction of new information technologies that have made international interaction more rapid, but it is also a process of restructuring the entire global economic system.
Changes in the world economy and globalisation impose important challenges on the South. The impact of globalisation is highly uneven and unequal. It is both an economic and a political process that produces losers as well winners, leading to a widening of the income gap both within and between countries. Increasing inequality will eventually lead to a global economic and social crisis.
Selective globalisation benefits the rich. Global negotiations are rapidly moving towards a free market in foreign investment and services. Protection and subsidies by developed countries in textiles and agricultural markets create obstacles for exports in areas where developing countries are currently competitive, thus reducing the benefits of globalisation for development in poor countries.
Indeed, we would expect the hon members of this House to contribute to help us look at how the rules of trade could be reformed so that our countries, which are struggling because of the protectionism that is happening to the north of us, could benefit. In this case, we are then calling on all members to think very carefully about how our delegation should represent not only our situation as South Africa, but also that of developing countries of which we are part.
We cannot ignore or evade globalisation. Some governments have taken a decision to engage proactively with globalisation. It is the best of times. It is the worst of times. The South sees globalisation as a source both of opportunities and of threats, and recognises our strengths and weaknesses in engaging with it. When we talk of world poverty, it is for us to look at all of these issues from the perspective of how globalisation affects particularly us, the developing countries.
The rapid expansion of world trade creates possibilities for a developing country to boost its economic growth by increasing exports as well as simultaneously diversifying exports to reduce dependency on primary products. The threats are that developing economies are unable to enter protected markets and absorb the shock of rapid capital movements. The rich industrialised countries enter developing country markets and displace local manufacturing.
What do we learn from international experience? Developing countries should formulate policy to counter polarisation and marginalisation. The South needs to recognise that globalisation has created an imperative to protect domestic policy and sovereignty and actively engage in the international arena. The South must strive to maximise opportunities and become an active force seeking to bring about changes in the global environment that will benefit the vulnerable. These contradictory objectives need to be balanced and managed by developing countries.
Developing countries are raising concerns in international forums, such as the Inter-Parliamentary Union and the Africa, Caribbean, Pacific-European Union Joint Parliamentary Assembly. The problems of developing nations must become the concern of industrialised countries. The instruments for global change also include the United Nations, the Non-Aligned Movement, the Southern African Development Community and the African Union. Developing countries must assert a united position on the international agenda. But can we unite our positions?
The policies have to be sensitive to the power imbalances between and within countries and to the social and economic needs of the poor and vulnerable.
How can the South survive? It is argued that protectionism of industry in the South has to be reversed and that commodities and products have to learn to compete in international markets and against imports as imposed by the present world economic order. We saw yesterday when our Minister of Finance was presenting the Budget that we are all affected by what happens in other countries.
Protectionism has been practised everywhere, enabling many countries to industrialise. A great deal of protectionism remains in the advanced countries. The key seems to be in the correct sequences of integration into world markets. Too rapid integration poses the danger of losing local firms, shedding jobs and undermining the existing economy. Firms need time to build up their presence overseas, experiment with product design and gear up to face international competition.
One of the most difficult issues in sequencing is the phasing out of domestic tariffs. To strengthen productivity and effectiveness, developing countries need time to adjust through the gradual phasing out of tariffs and the addition of various forms of support measures. Decisions are required on which sectors of industry should be given priority, and I think this is what we are doing in our country when we develop our industrial policy.
The growth model imposed on developing countries tends to restrict them from producing and processing raw materials for export. The argument is that industrialised countries have a comparative advantage in manufacturing, machinery and finance, so developing countries should focus on minerals and other primary commodities, making them vulnerable to reductions in commodity prices and escalating prices of finished goods, thereby leading to trade imbalances and foreign debt. The result of such policies is de-industrialisation, Third Word debt, the informalisation of employment and increasing unemployment.
In recent years, the value of primary commodity imports of the advanced countries fell heavily as prices have fallen. The result is that developing countries have received less in foreign revenue. This reinforces the argument that developing countries must diversify their economies and their export commodities as an insurance against falling commodity prices. A sound industrial policy must ensure that some production is dedicated to exports, some of the domestic market and some for the region.
It is often argued that for the South to become a major exporter, foreign direct investment, FDI, is needed to rebuild industry. This is partly to compensate for the low level of savings, hence low domestic investment. Experience elsewhere is that FDI may crowd out domestic investment, displacing local capital by foreign capital, thereby advantaging the latter. Much of present-day foreign capital inflow is short term and speculative and not long term. Speculative "hot money" is harmful since it flows in and out rapidly destabilising the economy.
The days of import substitution industrialisation, that is assisted local manufactured goods that replace imported goods, seem to be over because of international pressure mounting for the opening up of markets. The conventional wisdom of the Washington Consensus was that a single set of policies and prescribed macro variables would fit all countries. This has not worked and is now giving way to a more flexible nuanced approach. The pressure for conformity imposed by rich industrialised countries is negatively affecting poor developing countries.
It is argued that integration into the global economy is inevitably accompanied by a period of painful transition. In South Africa, there have been substantial job losses in some industrial sectors, though there have also been improvements in others and in the informal sector.
Has integration had an impact on employment and poverty? It is clearly insufficient that skilled jobs be created only in the modern export-oriented industrial sectors, while vulnerable communities become dependent upon the social responsibility of the affluent and those employed, excluding the poorer communities from economic activity. Sustainable employment is the only redress for societies experiencing poverty. I thank you, hon members. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 17:00.
END OF TAKE /DKS/LB (collate)
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