Hansard: Second Reading Debate: Division of Revenue Bill / Ministers 's Responses / Members 's Statements
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 26 Feb 2008
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 26 February 2008
TUESDAY, 26 FEBRUARY 2008
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
_____________
The House met at 14:00.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Dr S M VAN DYK: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House –
(1) notes the effect that the current energy crisis is likely to have on economic growth and the country as a whole; and
(2) resolves that an independent committee of inquiry be appointed to investigate the reasons for the energy crisis and determine who should be held accountable.
Mrs C DUDLEY
END OF TAKE
Dr S M VAN DYK
Mrs C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the ACDP I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House debates government's plans to provide more nuclear power without following policies and processes laid down in the government White Paper and the benefits and risks with specific reference to nuclear waste.
Mr G G BOINAMO
END OF TAKE
Mrs C DUDLEY
Mr G G BOINAMO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House debates the Department of Education's continued poor performance with regard to the matric pass rate, the uncertainty among learners and educators on the phasing out of the Senior Certificate curriculum and phasing in of the New Curriculum Statement, and to consider possible solutions to these problems.
Mr K J MINNIE
END OF TAKE
Mr G G BOINAMO
Mr K J MINNIE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House debates the worsening state of financial management in state departments and the possible steps that should be taken against those responsible for this financial mismanagement.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
END OF TAKE
Mr K J MINNIE
SUSPENSION OF RULE 253(1) FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONDUCTING THE SECOND READING DEBATE ON THE DIVISION OF REVENUE BILL
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That Rule 253(1), which provides inter alia that the debate on the Second Reading of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have elapsed since the committee's report was tabled, be suspended for the purposes of conducting the Second Reading debate today on the Division of Revenue Bill [B4 – 2008] (National Assembly – sec 76).
Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
END OF TAKE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
EXTENSION OF PERIOD FOR PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON FINANCE TO REPORT ON THE MAIN APPROPRIATION BILL
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That, notwithstanding Rule 290(3), which limits the period within which the Portfolio Committee on Finance has to report on the Main Appropriation Bill to seven consecutive working days, the committee reports to the House within nineteen consecutive working days.
Agreed to.
Ms N R MOKOTO
END OF TAKE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
MEMBERS' STATEMENTS
BUDGET CONFIRMS GOVERNMENT'S EFFORTS TO CREATE A BETTER LIFE FOR ALL
(Member's Statement)
Ms N R MOKOTO (ANC): Madam Speaker, the 52nd national conference of the ANC reaffirmed that the basic economic tasks of the NDR, the national democratic revolution, are to fight poverty, defeat mass unemployment and create a more equal society.
The Polokwane resolution on economic transformation states that answering the challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality means that we must simultaneously accelerate economic growth and transform the quality of that growth.
Our most effective weapon in the campaign against poverty is the creation of decent work, creating work that requires faster economic growth.
Moreover, the challenges of poverty and inequality require that accelerated growth takes place in the context of an effective strategy of redistribution that builds a new and more equitable growth path. The 2008-09 Budget takes us forward in achieving this objective.
In particular, there are significant real increases in social expenditure, especially for health and education. The allocation for social security has increased by R12 billion, which follows on significant increases over the past five years.
There are significant increases in support of free basic services, including the Municipal Infrastructure Grant and the equitable share.
The income floor below where earners do not pay income tax anymore, has been further increased to R46 000, which means that anyone earning less than the amount of R3 800 per month is exempted from paying tax.
Further allocations are made to support the Public Works Programme, including those that contribute to infrastructure development and social development.
The ANC-led government continues to lead our people and our country on the path to a better life for all. This Budget confirms this. I thank you. [Applause.]
Dr S M VAN DYK
END OF TAKE
Ms N R MOKOTO
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY INTO THE ENERGY CRISIS
(Member's statement)
Afrikaans:
Dr S M VAN DYK (DA): Speaker, die rede vir my kennisgewing van mosie vir 'n onafhanklike kommissie van ondersoek, is die feit dat die Department van Openbare Ondernemings Suid-Afrika oningelig gehou het oor die kragkrisis.
Eskom se krisis dateer terug na 1994, toe die nuwe bestuur homself beywer het om 'n verlies aan kundige personeel te bevorder. Dit was die voorloper tot die krisiswaarskuwing in die 1998 Witskrif oor die energiebeleid.
Op 19 Februarie 2008 sê Eskom, in 'n voorlegging aan die Parlement, dat die regering reeds in 2004 besef het dat die bou van nuwe kragsentrales noodsaaklik is. Maar in 2006 beweer Minister Alec Erwin, op 'n vraag van die DA, dat Suid Afrika geen kragprobleme voorsien nie.
Nadat die DA 'n vraag gestel het oor die steenkoolvoorraad, verneem ons dat Eskom nou skielik 45 miljoen ton addisionele steenkool gaan aankoop om in sy behoeftes te voorsien.
Op 24 Februarie sê Eskom dat Suid Afrika nog 'n basissentrale benodig voordat die beplande kernkragreaktors in 2017 in bedryf sal wees om aan die vraag te kan voorsien.
Nou beweer Eskom weer dat R1 300 miljard tot 2025 steeds nie voldoende sal wees om aan die land se elektrisiteitsbehoeftes te voorsien nie.
In Rapport van 24 Februarie 2008 verklaar Eskom dat sommige van Suid-Afrika se kragstasies so verouderd is, dat sekere eenhede nou onverwags ingee.
Daarom versoek die DA dat die Parlement 'n onafhanklike komitee van ondersoek aanstel na die gebeure rondom die Eskom-fiasko en die kragkrisis in Suid-Afrika, sodat Suid-Afrikaners hulself kan vergewis van die waarheid en wat die toekoms van die land vir ons inhou. Ek dank u. [Applous.]
Mr H J BEKKER
END OF TAKE
Dr S M VAN DYK
MEASURES TO DEAL WITH THE CRIME OF CABLE THEFT
(Member's Statement)
Mr H J BEKKER (IFP): Madam Speaker, the IFP has previously drawn attention to the scourge and devastating effect of cable theft in South Africa.
This is one of the most serious economic crimes being committed in South Africa today. Not only does it disrupt essential services, but it also has serious cost implications for our economy.
Last year, Business Against Crime reported that the theft of copper cables cost the South African economy an estimated R5 billion for that year. According to figures from Eskom, Telkom and Spoornet, these three companies spent approximately R5 billion replacing stolen cables during that financial year.
Earlier this year I placed on the Question Paper a question to the Minister of Communications, asking her what the total cost of damages suffered by Telkom, as a result of cable theft, was in 2007.
The Minister's reply was highly revealing. Telkom reported that operational expenditure to repair cable theft incidents for the 2007 financial year amounted to some R203 million, while estimated outbound revenue loss amounted to an additional R368 million. These are shocking figures that underpin the need for urgent legislative steps to combat cable theft.
Last year, in consultation with the IFP, I tabled a legislative proposal to include cable theft in the legal definition of sabotage and to criminalise it by placing it in the same class of crimes that can potentially threaten democracy.
The IFP also welcomes the introduction of the Second-Hand Goods Bill, which declares receipt and purchase of recovered copper from stolen cables a crime, and introduces heavy penalties for the offenders.
The question can be posed, however, whether this Bill is strong enough and whether it has sufficient teeth to deal with this scourge. I thank you.
Prof B TUROK
END OF TAKE
Mr H J BEKKER
ANTIDUMPING DUTIES PROTECT LOCAL ECONOMIES
(Member's Statement)
Prof B TUROK (ANC): Madam Speaker, I wish to address the potential damage to certain South African industries by antidumping duties. A recent ruling by the Supreme Court of Appeal has created some uncertainty about the continued application of antidumping duties for certain South African industries.
While these are complex matters, subject to multilateral rules and domestic law, they are also an important instrument to defend local industries and jobs against unfair competition from subsidised imported products.
The World Trade Organisation's rules allow us to use antidumping duties for a limited time. Let us therefore take maximum advantage of this to protect employment, which is after all the highest priority for our country at this time.
The ANC calls on government to ensure that Itac takes the necessary steps to keep antidumping duties appropriate. Our economy is already wide open to international trade, whereas the developed countries build their economies behind protectionism and continue to provide massive support, especially for agriculture, and yet they want to deny us the right to do the same. What was beneficial for the rich countries to become rich must also be good for us and all developing countries. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S N SIGCAU
END OF TAKE
Prof B TUROK
ANC MEMBERS STREAMING TO JOIN UDM
(Member's Statement)
IsiXhosa:
Nksz S N SIGCAU (UDM): Somlomo namalungu eNdlu abekekileyo, umbutho i-UDM uthe gqolo ukufumana amalungu amatsha. Le nto ibonakalisa ukuba abantu boMzantsi Afrika bayakholelwa kumbono wayo othi i-UDM likhaya labantu bonke beli. ngeCawa, umhla wama-24 kule imiyo, inyanga kaFebhuwari kowama-2008, i-UDM ibisamkela amalungu amatsha amalunga nama-300 aphuma kumbutho kaKhongolozi, eSamora Machel eKapa.
English:
The new members' action is an illustration of the growing need for change among South Africans who are fully dedicated to democracy in this country. By joining the UDM, they demonstrated that the UDM is a viable alternative. Ndiyabulela, Somlomo. [Thank you, Speaker.] [Laughter.]
Mnr W D SPIES
END OF TAKE
Ms S N SIGCAU
YOUTH CONGRESS OF FF PLUS IN ORANIA
(Member's Statement)
Afrikaans:
Mnr W D SPIES: Mev die Speaker, meer as 200 jeug- en studentelede van die VF Plus van regoor die land het die naweek die party se jeugsaamtrek op die Afrikanerdorp Orania bygewoon. Mnr Cornelius Janse van Rensburg, nasionale jeugleier van die VF Plus, het in sy kongresrede daarop gewys dat Afrikaners die land se eerste vryheidsvegters was.
Oor vryheid onder die ANC-bewind het hy gevra:
Hoe vry is ek as ek geen vooruitsigte vir werk in Suid-Afrika het nie, omdat ek wit is? Hoe vry is ek as ek weens velkleur nie toelating tot mediese studies kan kry nie, maar swart studente met gemiddeldes van onder 60% word toegelaat? Hoe vry is ek as regeringsbeleid bepaal saam met wie ek in my koshuiskamer moet bly?
Die kongres het drie mosies oor verskillende aspekte van vryheid aanvaar. Eerstens het die kongres besluit om hom te beywer vir die vestiging van 'n kultuur van vryheid van assosiasie, en kritiek uitgespreek teen die regeringsgeïnspireerde kwotabeleid wat tans op universiteitskursusse, -koshuise en nou selfs -studenteverenigings afgedwing word.
Tweedens het die kongres die standpunt ingeneem dat huidige probleme nie onder die ANC-regering opgelos kan word nie, en derdens het die kongres verklaar dat Afrikanerjeug as 'n nuwe geslag vry is van die laste van die verlede en wil fokus op 'n nuwe toekoms waarin alle gemeenskappe in Suid-Afrika vry van oorheersing 'n toekoms kan bou.
'n Hoogtepunt van die saamtrek was die optrede van die Afrikaanse rockgroep Klopjag. Afgevaardigdes het uit een mond saamgesing:
Hou op geld mors op naamsveranderings,
daar is mense sonder huise en kinders sonder kos,
wie is nou die sondebok?
...
Ons sal nie langer jammer sê nie.
Ek dank u.
Mrs L MALONEY
END OF TAKE
Mr W D SPIES
LAUNCH OF ISIVANDE WOMEN'S FUND
(Member's Statement)
Mrs L MALONEY (ANC): Madam Speaker, the change that the ANC seeks will not emerge spontaneously from the invisible hand of the market. People acting collectively in the spirit of human solidarity must shape the patterns of economic development. In this process, the state must play a central and strategic role by directly investing in underdeveloped areas and directing private-sector investment.
Last Monday, the Minister of Trade and Industry, together with Old Mutual, launched a fund that is aimed at accelerating women's empowerment by providing more affordable, usable and responsive finance solutions. The fund will be known as the Isivande Women's Fund. Its principal targets are black women at the bottom of the economic ladder, micro enterprises and women entrepreneurs who are currently running their own businesses. The fund will specialise in debt financing by offering loans from R30 000 to R2 million.
The ANC remains focused on the efforts to ensure broader women's emancipation in the economy. Thank you.
Mr I S MFUNDISI
END OF TAKE
Mrs L MALONEY
BILL OF RESPONSIBILITIES
(Member's statement)
Mr I S MFUNDISI (UCDP): Speaker, the debate around the proposed school pledge will take some time before it subsides. What remains is what has to be done to restore order, discipline and good behaviour among learners.
Last week, two boys at Akasia High School in Pretoria were stabbed at school. Another one in Carletonville is suspected to have succumbed to assaults metedout by others, while another was stabbed to death at a school in Idutywa in the Eastern Cape. The UCDP calls on all to close ranks and lend a hand in cultivating high moral values among our learners, being tolerant to one another and respecting the sanctity of human life.
The efforts of the Department of Education and the National Religious Leaders Forum are resulting in a Bill of Responsibilities for high school learners, which we commend. What is required is for people to buy into this effort, as the death of one student is one too many.
The UCDP knows that the Bill of Responsibilities is meant to inspire individual youths to take responsibility for their actions. As learners, they are, among other things, expected to be regular at school and work hard. We in the UCDP applaud the initiative by the Minister to bring to the attention of learners that rights have responsibilities attached to them. We call on all to support the Bill of Responsibilities that seeks to make men and women of substance out of our children. I thank you.
Mr S SIMMONS
END OF TAKE
Mr I S MFUNDISI
POLITICAL PARTIES INSENSITIVE HANDLING OF HOUSING SITUATION IN DELFT
(Member's Statement)
Afrikaans:
Mr S SIMMONS (NA): Mev die Speaker, dit is skokkend, skandalig en hartverskeurend om te sien hoe die ANC en die DA die behuisingsituasie in Delft vir goedkoop politiekery misbruik. Die DA laat 'n raadslid toe om ons mense se strewe na 'n beter lewe uit te buit deur aan hulle valse hoop te gee, terwyl die party deeglik bewus is van die ANC se modus operandi.
Ek wil beaam wat die politieke kommentator Max du Preez opgemerk het, en ek haal aan: "Wat vir bruinmense in die Wes-Kaap gesê word, is dat die ANC nie hul politieke tuiste is nie." Ek wil verder gaan en sê dat die onsensitiewe hantering van die aangeleentheid deur die DA ook bewys dat dié party nie die politieke tuiste van ons mense kan wees nie. Dit is duidelik dat die kiesers 'n politieke alternatief moet kry wat, eerstens, hul situasie verstaan, en tweedens, werklike verandering in hul lewens teweeg kan bring.
Die NA sal oor die volgende paar weke wys hoekom ons die politieke alternatief vir al ons mense sal wees met optrede wat nie net verandering belowe nie, maar optrede wat verandering 'n werklikheid sal maak. Ek dank u.
Ms A M DREYER
END OF TAKE
Mr S SIMMONS
MISMANAGEMENT OF COMPENSATION FUND
(Member's Statement)
Ms A M DREYER (DA): Madam Speaker, the Compensation Fund has been created with the objective of providing compensation to workers who have been seriously injured or have become maimed in the course of duty, but the fund is failing as a social safety net to these vulnerable people.
I will provide a few of many examples. Mr Moses Tshabalala has become medically unfit to work and has been confined to a wheelchair. He needs medication and other medical supplies as well, but the dispensing chemist can no longer afford to supply him, because it has an unpaid claim OF R66 000 against the fund.
Mr David Govender sustained serious head injuries during an accident. As a result he suffers from epileptic fits and other psychiatric problems. He needs medication which costs about R4 000 per month. The fund suddenly stopped refunding the dispensing chemist and the chemist will no longer give him his medication without cash payments.
We know that the Minister of Labour, Membathisi Mdladlana, is a workers' man and a man of the people. The question is: Why is he tolerating such mismanagement in the Compensation Fund?
Mr S J NJIKELANA
END OF TAKE
Ms A M DREYER
ARRIVAL OF CUBAN ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS IN MPUMALANGA AND EASTERN CAPE
(Member's Statement)
Mr S J NJIKELANA (ANC): Madam Speaker, recently Cuban experts arrived in Mpumalanga and the Eastern Cape to provide assistance at the provincial departments of Public Works for the next three years. They consist of architects and civil, electrical, mechanical and hydraulic engineers. They were invited to these provinces to assist in the construction, management and maintenance of public buildings such schools, clinics and hospitals.
They are contracted to work in the country for the next three years. During this period they will also mentor less skilled professionals in order to ensure that skills are transferred to our locals.
Their arrival on our shores coincides with the 20th anniversary of the battle of Quito Cuanavale that heralded Namibian independence and provided impetus to the process that led to the negotiated end of apartheid.
The ANC commends the government and the people of Cuba on their continued commitment to contribute to the reconstruction and development of our country. The ANC and its government shall interact with all countries, regardless of their social and political systems, and such interaction will be based on principles of mutual respect of each other's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity. Ngiyabonga. [I thank you.]
Dr U ROOPNARAIN
END OF TAKE
Mr S J NJIKELANA
FINANCIAL MISCONDUCT IN THE PUBLIC SERVICE
(Member's Statement)
Dr U ROOPNARAIN (IFP): Madam Speaker, the Public Service Commission's report on financial misconduct in the Public Service indicates a total of 1 042 cases of financial misconduct in the financial year 2006-07, which represents an increase from the 771 cases reported in the previous year. There was also an increase in respect of the 294 cases of social grant fraud: an increase of 193 reported cases. A total loss of R130 million by both national and provincial governments leads the IFP to believe that it will be business as usual for the financial year ahead and not "Business Unusual" as promised by the President in the state of the nation address.
The IFP reminds the directors-general of the four basic principles of service delivery: A high standard of professional ethics must be promoted and maintained; efficient, economic and effective use of resources must be promoted; public administration must be development oriented; and services must be provided impartially, fairly, equitably and without bias.
We call on the Ministers to hold the directors-general and staff accountable for nondelivery and all criminal activity. I thank you.
Mrs T J TSHIVHASE
END OF TAKE
Dr U ROOPNARAIN
Marlene Dumas' art works in South Africa
(Member's Statement)
Mrs T J TSHIVHASE (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC and its government work tirelessly to discover, develop and encourage national talent for the entrenchment of our cultural life. Today the cultural treasures of humanity are accessible to all by free exchange of books, ideas, and contact with other countries.
Miss Marlene Dumas is back in the country of her birth with an exhibition and she will be here until the end of March 2008. The title of the exhibition is "Intimate Relations" and it is being exhibited here in South Africa. The exhibition consists of more than 50 artworks - paintings, drawings and plates dating from her student days at the Michaelis School of Art at the University of Cape Town.
Miss Dumas has donated massive work to the Iziko South African National Gallery in Cape Town. She has also donated a piece to the Constitutional Court, entitled "The Benefit of Doubt". These donations indicate her love for the country of her birth and her commitment to the national art museum and the people of South Africa. Ndi a livhuwa. [I thank you.]
Ms J A SEMPLE
END OF TAKE
Mrs T J TSHIVHASE
SOUTH AFRICA's COUNTRY REPORT TO The 52nd Session on the UN Commission on the Status of Women
(Member's Statement)
Ms J A SEMPLE (DA): Madam Speaker, the 52nd Session of the UN Commission on the Status of Women is taking place in New York as we speak. Once again the South African country report submitted by government to this commission has neither been seen nor discussed by Parliament.
Despite the sweet talk from the Office on the Status of Women in the Presidency, the promotion of gender equality is being severely compromised by lack of finance in that office.
It is vital that Parliament has some involvement in the country report that is sent to New York every year. Yet every year since I have been a Member of Parliament - nine years now – the Joint Monitoring Committee on the Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women has been denied access to this report by the Minister in the Presidency.
The Minister must realise that women make up the majority of voters in South Africa and that they are ably represented by the women in this Parliament. The time for being polite is past. We demand to be consulted, failing which the Minister must be prepared to face the consequences. [Applause.]
Ms R J MASHIGO
END OF TAKE
Ms J A SEMPLE
Plan for manufacturing drugs in Africa
(Member's Statement)
Ms R J MASHIGO (ANC): Madam Speaker, last week the African Union technical committee held a conference in Benoni in South Africa. The aim of the two-day conference was to review a plan for the manufacturing of drugs in Africa. The conference called on the continent's health industry to improve access to affordable medicines.
The pharmaceuticals must play a significant role in the attainment of this goal. The conference was attended by local and international pharmaceutical experts, representatives from the World Intellectual Property Organisation and the African Regional Industrial Property Organisation.
The ANC is committed to ensuring that all the people get infinitely better and that their mental, physical and social health improves, both for its own sake and as a major contribution to increasing prosperity and the quality of life for all. I thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
END OF TAKE
Ms R J MASHIGO
ARRIVAL OF CUBAN ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS IN MPUMALANGA AND EASTERN CAPE
(Minister's Response)
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZEMISEBENZI YOMPHAKATHI: Somlomo namalungu ahloniphekile ale Ndlu, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngesincomo esiphakanyiswe ngelinye lamalungu, uMnu Sisa Njikelana, ngohlelo oluphakathi kwethu nohulumeni wase-Cuba lokwelekelelana ngochwepheshe ezindaweni lapho esisashoda khona njengeNingizimu Afrika. Ngiyabonga-ke ukuthi uhulumeni wase-Cuba uqhubekile nokulwandisa lolu sizo lapho sasiqale khona uma sikhumbula, ikakhulukazi kwezempilo maqondana nodokotela.
Namhlanje sinonjiniyela nabanye ababalelwa e-57 abakhona kuleli njengoba ngikhuluma nje abasebenzisana nathi ezifundazweni nakuzwelonke, ukuze sisizakale lapho sishoda khona emkhankasweni wokwakha ingqalasizinda yaleli zwe. Ngibonga nokuthi lo hulumeni wase-Cuba obuphethwe uMongameli uMnu Castro unomphakathi onolwazi lokuthi kuningi okufanele ukwenze ukwelekelelana namanye amazwe asafufusayo ukuze uphakamise intuthuko yalawo mazwe. Ngiyabonga.
The MINISTER OF FINANCE
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS
BUDGET CONFIRMS GOVERNMENT'S EFFORTS TO CREATE A BETTER LIFE FOR ALL
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY INTO THE ENERGY CRISIS
YOUTH CONGRESS OF FF PLUS IN ORANIA
FINANCIAL MISCONDUCT IN THE PUBLIC SERCIVE
(Minister's Response)
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Speaker, in response to the hon Moloto's statement on the Budget, what can we say, but … "siyimbumba" [we are together].
In respect of the hon Van Dyk, it would help if the hon doctor were able to distinguish between a motion and a statement. If he's asked for a parliamentary discussion I think we should have that discussion, but we need to extract from the hon Dr van Dyk a commitment that at the conclusion of that statement he will stop blaming black people, because it is there in every statement he makes about the power crisis. His fundamental racism is something he should leave behind him. That is what we should extract from him as a fundamental commitment to this power crisis.
Afrikaans:
Die agb Spies verwys na die jeugkongres van die VF Plus. Vryheid van assosiasie is 'n moeilike ding as jy dan nou in Orania is, want met wie sal jy dan saamsmelt? Ek wil ook vra dat ons weer eens verwys na die aanhef tot die Grondwet en dat ons almal as lede van hierdie Parlement getrou is aan die Grondwet.
Apartheid was vóór 1994. As mense op universiteit nie met anderkleuriges wil saam bly nie, moet hulle almal maar na 'n universiteit in Orania gaan, maar Suid-Afrika is nie-rassisties, demokraties en nie-seksisities. [Applous.] Dit is wat die Grondwet van ons verwag en dit is wat ons moet uitleef.
English:
In respect of the hon Roopnarain's point about financial misconduct, let me again make an appeal to all of Parliament: We publish, in terms of section 32 of the Public Finance Management Act, monthly expenditures. I say again, Madam Speaker: Parliament does not use it. It is parliamentary oversight that we must strengthen. Every committee must be called to action. I know as a Minister that we are not called to account and our directors-general aren't called to account for any expenditures. [Interjections.] So I want to ask that Parliament do what Parliament must do, and that is oversight. And then when there is criminal activity, I think we must stand together and root the criminals out of the Public Service. They don't deserve to be in these jobs, pretending to serve our people when they serve themselves alone. I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF FINANCE
MISMANAGEMENT OF COMPENSATION FUND
(Minister's Response)
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Department of Labour, of which I am the Acting Minister, I would like to respond on the issue of the Compensation Fund.
The name should be "Minister Membathisi Mdladlana", "Membathisi Mdladlana Wakuqoboqobo"! It is bad that the hon member cannot even pronounce our names properly! The problem is that he doesn't care.
If you want to bring forward the problems with regard to the issue of the Compensation Fund you should stop screaming in this House. By screaming you are not helping the people who are supposed to be helped. Your screaming here is not going to assist those people, but you are playing political games instead of assisting them to achieve a better life. Please bring those problems forward so that we can deal with them, and stop playing games.
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
YOUTH CONGRESS OF FF PLUS IN ORANIA
POLITICAL PARTIES INSENSITIVE HANDLING OF HOUSING SITUATION IN DELFT
BILL OF RESPONSIBILITIES
(Minister's Response)
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, I believe the Minister of Finance has successfully dealt with the statement that was read by the hon Spies. But I thought the hon Spies, as an honourable member of this House, would have congratulated the young people of the University of the Free State who have agreed to work together to ensure that desegregation of the university residences is done successfully by young people working together. I think that is the role we as Members of Parliament should be playing - bringing together young people from different groups to work together to build a better South Africa where our young people live together, united in diversity.
We congratulate those young people and we will work with them. They are from all the groups that make up our country.
Secondly, I think one can only feel a deep sense of sorrow for the party led by the hon Simmons since all it can do is to build its future plans of recruitment on the sad plight of people in this country and on the way in which people have been misled by politicians, particularly politicians from the DA. I think that is not a base for recruitment. It's a base for us to go out and see how we can ensure that we make the lives of the people of our country better. I can assure the hon Simmons that he will find very few coloured people, or any other person, interested in joining his one-person party. [Interjections.]
Finally, Madam Speaker, may I say that I thank the hon member of the UCDP who mentioned the Bill of Responsibilities, which has been put out there for young people. We believe that the Bill of Responsibilities is not just for young people but it is for all of us, South Africans, to realise that, as we exercise our rights, we should do so understanding that rights come with responsibility.
We will work with our schools to assist them in addressing this very serious problem that we confront, of violence among children in our schools. We will work with them in schools. We will try to support teachers as best we can and ensure that through the life skills programme we actually build positive values among young people in South Africa, so that they can learn to deal with conflict without any form of violence. I think it's a long-term set of initiatives that we need to put in place. I am glad that the provincial Departments of Education have begun to take up the challenge of assisting schools to confront this particular problem of violence.
Finally, Madam Speaker, may I say that I disagree with the FF that name changes is something we should not do. I think given the criteria that have been discussed in this House and the need to ensure that names are reflective of the changes that have come about with the achievement of freedom and democracy, we indeed should have name changes in South Africa, but with due attention to ensuring that the names of places and even of institutions reflect the broad character of South Africa and not only one part of it. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION
Plan for manufacturing drugs in Africa
(Minister's Response)
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Madam Speaker, I'd like to thank the hon member Mashego for reminding us about the meeting that took place in Kopanong. Yes, indeed, the meeting of the African Union Technical Committee on Pharmaceuticals did take place, and in our capacity as chair of the AU Bureau of the Ministers of Health, we hosted and chaired the said meeting.
The goal of this government, as we all know, continues to be to build the improvement of access, affordability and quality health care, including medicines, of course, for all South Africans. Therefore to ensure the affordability of medicines in our country, we've introduced a range of interventions through the essential medicine policy, generic medicine substitution, and expediting the registration of medicines in the country. We introduced the single exit price for medicines and logistics for dispensing fees. We've also introduced the reference pricing list. We also make provision for parallel importation of medicines. We've also legislated on a national health reference price list, and we will continue to do pharmaco-economic assessments. We will implement the international benchmarking, again to try and reduce, as much as we can, the cost of medicines in this country.
Now, the medicine pricing regulations have indeed been successful, but we would want to do more. Since the introduction of these regulations there has been a reduction in the cost of medicines in this country in excess of 20%. Indeed, this is our commitment to ensuring health for all.
Madam Speaker, affordability of medicines must be seen within the context of healthy lifestyles, in the first instance, to promote good health and prevent disease. Yes, you are right, hon member. Pharmaceuticals must play a significant role in the attainment of the goal to ensure affordability of medicines. They must refrain from price-fixing - manipulating prices for pharmaceuticals and hospital products. Also, they must refrain from contravening the medicine price regulations - a case here being the anaesthetic gases.
Hon member Mashego, the 52nd conference of the ANC of course – as you know - resolved that the feasibility study on local manufacturing of medicines be undertaken. The Department of Health, the Department of Trade and Industry, and Treasury are conducting this study. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
ANTIDUMPING DUTIES PROTECT LOCAL ECONOMIES
(Minister's Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Speaker, I wanted to respond to the statement from the hon Turok.
I just want to inform the House that the uncertainty about antidumping duties is not about their continued availability and use as a trade remedy against unfair competition from dumped imports, but it is about when to start counting the five-year timeframe for their application which is allowed by World Trade Organisation rules.
In the case which was referred to by the hon Turok, the Supreme Court of Appeal ruled that this could not start from the time of the imposition of a definitive duty on the conclusion of an investigation, as had been the practice in this country up to now, and also in many other countries, but that it had to begin when a provisional duty is applied on the basis of prima facie evidence of a threat of injury.
The International Trade Administration Commission has published a preliminary recommendation for public comment on the way to continue to apply antidumping duties in a way that is compatible both with multilateral rules and now the decisions of our courts. Itac still has to respond to the representations which it received up to the 14th of this month, and the Ministry has yet to engage Itac on this matter.
Let me make it absolutely clear that there is no intention whatsoever to abandon the use of antidumping remedies as a tool to defend local producers against unfair competition from dumped imports. We will continue to use antidumping duties; the point is that we need to find a way to continue to do so in the light of this court ruling. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF FINANCE
END OF TAKE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
FAREWELL TO PROF KADER ASMAL ON HIS RESIGNATION AS MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Thank you, Madam Speaker, hon members. I am very deeply conscious of the need to assiduously avoid this sounding like either a CV or an obituary. I think there is much too much kick in the old pony yet to even begin to contemplate any of these.
This afternoon is about paying tribute to a colleague and a comrade, who, for the past 14 years, has given meaning to the title, "Member of Parliament". He served this institution and the executive exceedingly well during the period. Hon members, I declare that I have a triple view advantage: We served together on the ANC National Executive Committee for 16 years; in Cabinet for 10 years and – yes - whilst he would call it "shared a house", I should, in the interests of correctness and transparency, advise that I squatted in his house for 10 years. Definitions are immaterial, but since it remains unresolved, he would say that a squatter would have ityotyombe [built a shack] in his garden and that I just took over increasingly larger parts of his house and increasingly he didn't dare enter those parts that I occupied. When I moved in first, I had visions of order. I thought that there would be rotations for cooking and dishwashing duties and the like. None of that ever took place. We lived primarily off Louise's organisational capabilities: Malibongwe, Louise. [Applause.]
Each week she'd pack food for the freezer, which was carefully marked by day, and all Kader had to do was to microwave the daily portion. This was a really, really difficult task for Comrade Kader. The microwave oven, if it still exists, probably bears sufficient dents and craters from the odd explosions that took place there. [Laughter.] So, I'd advise all publications to kindly remove Kader's name from their list of potential celebrity chefs.
Beyond his cooking, the intellectual engagement - reading, writing and interpreting - has always been hon Asmal's deep and driving passion. When he returned from exile, he came to live in Cape Town. He arrived here as one of the great legal minds of the ANC with a very fierce reputation. He was located at the University of the Western Cape and from there participated fervently in the work of refining the ANC's constitutional principles and became an integral part of the negotiating team. I am sure that there is so much richness and detail from this period, and perhaps Kader's place will be recorded as one of the lead roles during that period of our transition.
But it was with this reputation that Kader stood around with a number of us who had been invited by the brand-new president, President Mandela, to the Union Buildings on 11 May 1994, while a tense round of negotiations took place, on the allocation of portfolios. Later that day, individually, we were advised of our assignment.
Now I can kiss and tell, Kader, and say that I didn't think you were overjoyed when you were assigned Water Affairs and Forestry. He never admitted to it, but I had a sense that he was a bit disappointed that his fine legal mind was not being called upon. But Madiba's faith in Comrade Kader was so completely unbridled. He knew that he could depend on Kader to take on a portfolio whose predecessor few remembered, even then. Kader attacked the portfolio with gusto, hauled out the RDP, calculated the number of miles of water piping – never kilometres, but miles – and the number of taps that the country needed, and badgered Derek Keys and Chris Liebenberg, the Finance Ministers before me, and Jay Naidoo in the RDP office. Water had just become the sexiest portfolio. The portfolio now included aspects that previously could never have been considered, such as Working for Water and the National Water Act, whose transformational impact is part of Kader's great legacy.
He was appointed to head the World Commission on Dams by the World Bank and he was awarded the prestigious Stockholm Water Prize. But his greatest accolade, perhaps, comes from the United Nations Development Programme who chose to launch the Human Development Report that was themed on water here in 2006, because, as the report states, South Africa is one of the very few countries in the world that spends less on military budgets than on water and sanitation. [Applause.]
Not bad for a lawyer! Not bad for a lawyer whose association with water until his appointment appeared to be confined to two frozen bits that he dropped into an amber fluid. [Laughter.]
With all the challenges in the portfolio and all of the learning about heads, weirs and pumping systems and recycling, Kader had time to take on other responsibilities in Cabinet. He was responsible for establishing the National Conventional Arms Control Committee. It was an idea that he led because he wanted to turn around the bad reputation that Armscor had acquired for itself and the country under apartheid. Similarly, the executive ethics code has Kader's DNA all over it. Again, we should be reminded that his sterling contributions to the functioning of democracy and the strengthening of parliamentary oversight, sets this Parliament apart.
Then he was deployed to the Education portfolio after the 1999 elections. He arrived home because we have the strange system where the President has everybody wait in one place and calls us individually. He was one of the last to be called and arrived home at 5:30am. He was delirious – no amber fluid, but delirious. I couldn't work out whether it was the joy of tackling Education after law, his great passion, or whether it was the sadness of his separation from Water Affairs and Foresty.
Few things in life can prepare an individual for such a huge change. Kader was ready. Even he would admit that he found the going a bit tougher. In Water Affairs he could pretty much decide things, whereas in Education the Constitution assigns the delivery of the most important part of education, schooling, to provinces. By the time he was assigned, a measure of federalism had already taken root. The Act even established the Council of Education Ministers, rather than a Minmec.
Yes, he should own up that the going was tough, but he attacked a number of the glaring problems: The acquisition and distribution of learner support materials and the school-building programme, with the same vigour, but perhaps with less success than he had at Water Affairs, because of the complexities. Objectively, it was just too hard and often we would talk about these difficulties and his frustrations until three or four in the morning. The portfolio has been and still is very difficult. Add to this the odd uprising or instance of maladministration at a tertiary institution and the work of the Education Minister is more than cut out.
This did not dampen his enthusiasm. He drove the curriculum changes focused on outcomes-based education in the face of some very stiff opposition from traditionalists. He established an advisory committee on tertiary institutions and took the hard route of amalgamating a number of them, and significantly upgraded the Register of School Needs, in order to allow for the monitoring of the state of school infrastructure.
But this job wasn't big enough for Kader either. He was appointed by Unesco to chair an international meeting of experts to draft a convention on cultural diversity. Again, he did this with aplomb. The world recognised his efforts and the French Republic admitted him to the Legion d'honneur.
Since 2004 he served as a Member of Parliament and not in the executive. At first he chaired the Joint Committee on Defence. I claim responsibility for his redeployment from there. When we were charged with the responsibility of chairing the Financial Action Task Force for 2006, by 2005, we asked Kader to do that on behalf of the country. FATF is a complex multilateral body based in Paris, which deals with the prevention of money-laundering and terrorist financing. We picked on the good professor to chair our initiative. I thought it would be a stretch – law, water, arms control, parliamentary ethics, education, defence - but no chance. Once again, the hon Prof Asmal did us proud.
He has been able to address himself to all the tasks assigned with the energy he has for two reasons: Firstly, his values. When he was awarded the Legion d'honneur, he said, and I quote:
I am product of our struggle for freedom. Like my political movement we have drawn inspiration from the intellectual and political patrimony of humanity, which has shaped the contours of our Constitution.
That defines the Kader I know, in service of his movement and his people. His values are so strong. They provide him with the solid platform to work from. The second reason is that he enjoys a deep, yet critical support from Louise.
His life work has placed him in a position where he can criticise and advise. Everybody knows that it emanates from one who loves his organisation and democracy very, very dearly. Another problem, besides his cooking, is that he is a complete technophobe. He has only just learned to dial on a cellphone. He still struggles with a dictaphone and sending an SMS or using a computer are all much too futuristic for him. But then he is not young. He is approaching 74 – a spring chicken compared to Ben Turok, but there he is. [Laughter.]
His take on learning is exemplary. In all the years we lived together this was a task he never let up on. He reads extensively every day: As a Minister, Cabinet documents, submissions, letters, technical books, international reports and many, many novels. This is a discipline we should all have and a shared commitment to lifelong learning. Kader reads every day, regardless of other duties, including the many cocktails on the diplomatic circuit he attends. When others might have been tired and emotional after these events, Kader would return home to work. That is the distinguishing discipline that has set him apart.
When he concluded the Unesco report, he relied on the words of the great poet Bertolt Brecht, and said:
When the battle of the mountains is over,
then you will see
that the real battle of the plains will begin.
So, Kader, the battle of the mountains here in Parliament is over for you because you made the call. Now the real battle of the plains will begin for you. I so hope that you didn't time your retirement to coincide with Fidel, but there: It is the same old Kader, the same old problems. [Applause.] Go well into the labyrinth of academia. Your presence will be sorely missed because you have taught infinitely about the meaning of what it takes to be a parliamentarian. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr A J LEON
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF FINANCE
Mr A J LEON: Madam Speaker, hon members, today's proceedings in honour of Prof Kader Asmal are extraordinary for several reasons.
First, he leaves Parliament, literally, to become a Professor Extraordinary at the University of the Western Cape, of which he wrote recently in a newspaper article "the most extraordinary thing about this appointment is that I am not to be paid". Second, it is also an occasion to pay tribute across the aisle to a person who has rendered extraordinary service to Parliament and to the politics of South Africa for the last decade and a half. Third, today's occasion is extraordinary for me personally. It is only Kader's departure from this institution which has caused me to break my parliamentary silence after more than a year since my last speech from this podium. [Laughter.]
Kader Asmal is a very rare politician, particularly within the confines and strictures of our young democracy. He actually engages in debate. He understands that any worthwhile conversation must, at least, include one other person – a rare occurrence, perhaps, on any side of this House. More, he has never profited from the considerable offices of state he has occupied; nor has he ever sought to exploit commercially his political connectivity and his access to state power. Never mind school pledges and Apex Priority points: if we want to offer an example to the country of what it is that a life of public service to South Africa should be about, then I would submit this is it. [Applause.]
Kader Asmal is someone with whom you can, as I can attest, vehemently disagree across the floor of Parliament, but afterwards share a jaw, and in his case a jar, either in the parliamentary bar or at some other preferred hostelry of his choice – and he has many in that regard. [Laughter.]
Our closed list system of proportional representation, which bizarrely Kader did so much to defend at the time of the Van Zyl-Slabbert Report, actually militates against the sort of freethinking, irreverent and academically distinguished contributions which have been the hallmark of so much of the hon Asmal's parliamentary and ministerial performances.
We have, as I indicated, very often disagreed with each other. I recall before the 1999 elections, the Democratic Party published a poster of me bearing the legend "Tony Leon needs you". In the state of the nation debate that year, Kader Asmal opined, "The bigger question is whether you need Tony Leon as he defaces our landscape like an urban scarecrow". [Laughter.] Well, we have all been compared to parliamentary animals, but it may be true that, in saving this Chamber from turning into a complete zoo, Parliament needs more, not fewer, of them.
In another debate, more for the paucity of his argument on that occasion, rather than his very distinctive physical presence, I described the hon Asmal as a hypocrite on stilts. He affected to splutter with rage but was actually very amused.
As you heard from the hon Minister of Finance, his first Ministry, Water and Forestry, was hugely successful in presentational terms. He certainly set the bar very high for his Cabinet colleagues in getting a good press and communicating with the public.
There obviously was a showman-side of Kader which we have all seen and which he has used to very good effect, but even he sometimes expressed amazement at the requirements of presentation and its intrusion into modern politics. Shortly before his election as prime minister of Britain, Tony Blair visited this Parliament in his last days as leader of the opposition. Few MPs were on hand to receive him, it being one of our recesses. Kader Asmal, however, was one of them. I later asked him what impression the new Labour leader had made on him. "Impressed?" Kader spluttered, "He wore makeup throughout his visit in order to have the right glow on television! That is my impression and it is not therefore a very serious one!" [Laughter.]
As you heard, his second Ministry, Education, seemed unusually suited to his talents and background as an educator. There was on his watch no shortage of ideas, schemes or ideologies, but the core problem which required urgent redress – the quality of teaching and the performance of educators – remains an unresolved problem to this day.
Late in the day, after he no longer held ministerial office, the hon Kader Asmal found his voice on a range of issues, denouncing Robert Mugabe's tyranny in Zimbabwe, and proposing a third way for the ANC outside of what he saw as the Zuma-Mbeki cul-de-sac. He suggested a new generation of leadership for his party. Late, in this case, is far better than never.
I would submit, in conclusion, Speaker, that Kader Asmal is one of the architects of our new constitutional order. He, better than most, knows what has to be done to ensure it remains a living document and not a palimpsest on which the exigencies of power overwrite its foundational principles. I submit that in his postparliamentary career that he will turn his attention to that and will do so with our grateful thanks. Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M B SKOSANA
END OF TAKE
Mr A J LEON
Mr M B SKOSANA: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, hon Ministers, this message comes from the president of the IFP, Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, who could not be here to deliver it.
It is a privilege to pay tribute to my friend and colleague, Prof Kader Asmal, as he leaves this House. The professor is erudite, yes, often brilliant. He is unfailingly generous, witty, a skilled speaker who can hold audiences rapt, and truly an honourable member of this House. The journalist Matthew Parris, who will be known to the professor, once said jokingly, "Politics feeds your vanity and starves your self-respect." Prof Asmal is neither a vain man, nor lacking in self-respect.
That Prof Asmal grew up in KwaZulu-Natal gave him, I believe, a sensitive understanding of the politics of Natal and the pathos of the Zulu nation. He recognised the complexity of the situation in South Africa. I was always impressed by his intelligent grasp of the political dynamics of this province, which sadly gave rise to the political violence that marred relations between our two movements. I must say that even at the worst times we were only political opponents, not enemies.
We know that while a schoolboy, Prof Asmal met with iNkosi Albert Luthuli. This encounter naturally inspired him towards a life dedicated to the pursuit of human rights. When the liberation history of South Africa is written, Prof Asmal's name will be there in bold gold letters.
On occasion he recalled that I delivered the funeral oration at the funeral of iNkosi Luthuli. That was the type of outspokenness that he had. It was no surprise to us that while he was in London, he started the British anti-apartheid movement and later, when he joined Trinity College in Dublin, Ireland as a teacher of human rights, labour and international law, he started the Irish anti-apartheid movement.
As a colleague in Cabinet for 10 years, none of us would fail to admire his work as a Minister. Ministers are given bundles and bundles of memoranda for Cabinet discussion just a day before Cabinet meets. I remember President Mandela once complaining at one of the Cabinet meetings which he attended, referring to the numerous memoranda we had to go through. Mr Mandela said: "Can't they prepare smaller amounts of these? This is too much for one human being to read." Prof Asmal was known to be able to peruse not just the memoranda of his department, but also all the memoranda for all departments. He would comment on each one of them with full understanding as he had read them all. Some of the members called him the "The Minister of All" because of his intelligence. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr G T MADIKIZA
END OF TAKE
Mr M B SKOSANA
Mr G T MADIKIZA: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, we gather here today to bid farewell to one of the most recognisable names in the history of this democratic institution.
The hon Asmal will be remembered for his relentless dedication to his organisation. He will also be remembered for his strident policy arguments and his sharp debating skills. There are those who may accuse him of being pedantic and others who have said that he displays intellectual rigour and thoroughness. Whichever position one chooses to adopt, nobody will disagree when we say that the hon Asmal could never be accused of sitting on the sidelines or hedging his bets.
Over the years, the hon member has served in various portfolios, and history has yet to decide what his influence was on several important matters during the formative years of our democracy. It is clear that his party holds him in high esteem and trusts him on a wide variety of policy topics. Aside from his work as a member of this House, the hon member has been active in other fields – not least internal party matters for his organisation. He is also known for his academic work over many years.
He has dedicated the greater part of his life to the ANC and we hope that he now has the opportunity to spend more time with family and friends. We wish him well with the course he has embarked on, and hope that he will find success in his future endeavours. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY
END OF TAKE
Mr G T MADIKIZA
Mrs C DUDLEY: Madam Deputy Speaker:
No man can tell whether he is rich or poor by turning to his ledger. It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich or poor according to what he is, not according to what he has.
These are the wise words of Henry Ward Beecher, a preacher born in Connecticut in 1813, who actively opposed slavery.
Hon Prof Asmal, as you retire from formal politics, the ACDP would like to honour you for being a truly authentic person, courageous when it comes to your convictions, a risk taker and certainly controversial. We appreciate the contribution you have made towards the realisation of a South Africa free of many of the injustices of the past, and for this we thank you.
I vividly remember the first day I encountered the charismatic and charming, then Minister Asmal, in 1999 when I first came to Parliament. I was attending my first ever meeting of the Portfolio Committee on Education and as I approached the Old Assembly I received the most unexpected, irresistible and enthusiastic welcome. From that moment on, somehow, God had allowed you to creep right into my heart! [Applause.]
Of course the ACDP has also known hon Prof Asmal as a formidable opponent. Government's humanistic education policies, fiercely defended by the then Minister, clashed with the Christian worldview. Having been mocked, ridiculed and on the receiving end of some of the most scathing rhetoric, I can say I have had first-hand experience of the passion and skill of this orator of note!
Prof Asmal, your willingness to speak out and tell the truth as you perceive it, regardless of the consequences, places you head and shoulders above many in this arena. Thank you for daring to care enough about fellow Africans in Zimbabwe that you spoke out; thank you for speaking out on behalf of refugees and immigrants in South Africa who face no end of hardship. Your courage is touching and inspirational. I know that we share things in common and pray God will place the plight of unborn children just as passionately on your heart. But more than that, I pray that you will know just how much you are on God's heart. I am convinced, as much now as ever before, that the best is yet to come. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI
END OF TAKE
Mrs C DUDLEY
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon members, we are today bidding farewell to a man of the world from this Parliament. He has been to almost every nook and cranny of the globe, both as academic and politician. Hon Asmal has seen, said and done all in Parliament in the past 14 years.
This sprightly septuagenarian can make even some teenagers green with envy of the way he conducts himself. He is always active and full of life. Last week I saw him darting like lightning on his way from the majority party benches to his seat - no sprinter could outdo him.
In his political career he has accomplished many things. He has been the standard bearer of morals and ethics in the ANC. I shall always remember him for the manner he tore to pieces a cheque donation that was made to his party by some dubious character.
Hon Asmal has always been known for shooting from the hip. He never doubted to give it to President Mugabe of Zimbabwe, in a clear deviation from his party position on the matter. To him it was a matter of conscience rather than of blinkered compliance.
I believe however that as much as the politician in him will remain alive, even in academia, he will resist the temptation of calling politicians "baboons". [Laughter.]
All in this House can testify that hon Asmal is a workaholic, a tough task master and slave-driver. He subscribes to Micawber's policy: Never do tomorrow what you can do today. It is not surprising that some call him "the bee" because he is ever busy. He is a man of fine detail who never leaves anything to chance.
In observing him from a distance, I think his philosophy is to strive for excellence through hard work. He has a very high and faultless work rate.
Prof Asmal leaves behind him indelible footprints of honesty and hard work in these corridors of Parliament. Except for his speeches, he leaves a legacy of a report on Chapter 9 institutions which we as Parliament and the nation will engage with for some time to come.
We pray for Professor Asmal's strength as he is one of those midwives who were in the labour room when democracy was delivered to this country. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S RAJBALLY
END OF TAKE
Mr I S MFUNDISI
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Kader Asmal needs no introductions. My acquaintance with Kader Asmal for nine years speaks for itself. His immense work as a comrade, an academic and a humanitarian has been astounding.
Asmal has dedicated his life to the freedom and liberation of the people and, like many other comrades, endured much hardship and sacrifice.
Asmal's brilliance shines through his many literary works and contributions to many texts. His writings depict an earnest understanding and motivation in respect of politics and structure to attain growth and development.
A friendly personality, with great wit, the hon Asmal has served in the Cabinet, making great contributions to both the Departments of Education, and Water Affairs and Forestry.
We do wish the hon Asmal well and thank him immensely on behalf of all South Africans for his contribution to our liberation and his work in transforming us into a winning democracy. We congratulate the ANC on having such a committed and dedicated comrade. We hope that Asmal will however continue his contributions to the benefit of the organisation and in service of the nation.
We wish hon Asmal and his family well on their journey ahead, with a lifetime of happiness, prosperity and goodwill. On behalf of the leader of the MF, Mr A Rajbansi, we salute you. We thank you and wish you every success.
Hon Asmal, I am going to miss you. I don't know when again you will ask me, "But where is your courage?" Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M T LIKOTSI
END OF TAKE
Ms S RAJBALLY
Mr M T LIKOTSI: Madam Deputy Speaker, let me first of all thank the family of Prof Kader Asmal for giving us this industrious man to work with in this House. I further wish to thank the state President, hon Thabo Mbeki, for appointing this academic giant to share his knowledge with us here at Parliament, nationally and internationally.
Let me borrow from the words of Dr Miles E Monroe, when talking of Prof A K Asmal:
Leadership demands a commitment of service to others, placing the needs of others above your own.
That is what I have seen of Prof Kader Asmal. I'm told that Prof A K Asmal was a lecturer at a university in Ireland. By the look of his capabilities, I am sure he did justice to his role at the time.
Personally, I knew you, Prof Asmal as the Minister of Education before I came to this Parliament. I witnessed you working diligently in our respective schools of learning. But you scared me one day when you wanted to scrap the wearing of school uniforms by learners because of my vested interest in that industry. [Laughter.] You listened to the uproar of parents and dropped that idea.
The APC and I have enjoyed your company in this House. We wish you well in your retirement. We wish you good health and success in your future plans. You will always have a special place in my heart. I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary and constitutionally appropriate for members of this House to refer to the President of South Africa as "the state President"? Does it say so in the Constitution?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thanks for the correction, hon Minister. That's a point of information, and not a point of order. We are now informed, and we will make sure that we address the President accordingly. Thank you.
Dr S E M PHEKO
END OF TAKE
Mr M T LIKOTSI
Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Deputy Speaker, I have known the hon Prof Kader Asmal for nearly nine years now, from the time he was the Minister of Education and through the time when he was the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Defence.
He is a very capable and efficient person, and an asset to our country. I am not, therefore, surprised that the President found it fit to appoint him to the important assignment of contributing his share to overcoming the electricity crisis which is threatening to slow down our economic development.
I have learned a lot from the hon member, but I have not always agreed with him. One time when I mentioned the need for free education, he said there was no such thing as free education. It was also during his term of office that there was a high rate of retrenchment of teachers, and closure of teacher training colleges in places such as Matatiele and Herschel. How could we retrench teachers and close schools when the school population was increasing, and the country needed more skills for development?
I know Prof Asmal is a hard worker, and a very energetic person. As a lawyer, he has always articulated helpful positions in this House and elsewhere. The PAC salutes his contribution to this nation, and wishes him success in his new assignment and sphere of endeavour. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE
END OF TAKE
Dr S E M PHEKO
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Madam Deputy Speaker, to bid farewell to any person, comrade or companion, who has been part of a common agenda, as is the case with Comrade Prof Asmal, is indeed a very difficult matter.
Comrade Kader Asmal has been part of this Parliament ever since the new democratic order was established, and has contributed immensely to both its ethosand progress. Some of his contributions are well documented, including the more recent report on Chapter 9 institutions. In Azapo, we have never had the privilege of working closely with Comrade Prof Asmal, but we have known him as a person who is not afraid to express and defend his opinion or views. His friendliness, his acute perceptions of the world, his cultivated intellectual ability and creativity stand out as gifts that he is always prepared to share here and outside Parliament. We have listened to him on many occasions, and on many of these occasions, it became very clear to Azapo that he is a man of his word, and that what you see is what you get.
Azapo wishes you well, wherever you will be, and hopes that you will find time and space to continue to contribute to the future of our country. We salute you. [Applause.]
Mr L M GREEN
END OF TAKE
Mr P J NEFOLVOHODWE
Mr L M GREEN: Deputy Speaker, the hon Prof Kader Asmal leaves this House with a strong sense of achievement that he has significantly contributed to the democratic destiny of this country.
Since the early 1990s, he was involved in negotiations that helped to shape the foundational principles on which our Constitution is based. As Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry, he was in the forefront to sustain our water resources through projects such as the Working for Water programme. He became the Minister of Education in 1999, and realised that the outcomes-based system was in need of review, and through his efforts, the policy reached a certain level of stability.
The hon Asmal served on various parliamentary committees, and last year, was instrumental in finalising the process reviewing the role and functions of Chapter 9 oversight bodies in consolidating, growing and sustaining our democratic systems.
He rarely broke ranks from official government policy, but in 2007, he spoke out against the situation in Zimbabwe, and admitted that he should have done so earlier. As a stalwart for human rights, we can only hope that history will vindicate him for eventually speaking up, and that justice, human rights and rule of law will return to Zimbabwe.
The hon Asmal is an invaluable resource of parliamentary knowledge, and his wit, intellect and leadership will be missed. Though I have differed with Prof Asmal many times in this House, I always admired his political integrity.
Finally, the FD salutes the hon Asmal for a sterling, productive parliamentary career for the past 14 years. We wish you well for all future endeavours. May God bless you. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S SIMMONS
END OF TAKE
Mr L M GREEN
Mr S SIMMONS: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon President, Deputy President and colleagues, the retirement of hon Prof Asmal is indeed a loss, not only to the ANC, but to the institution of Parliament. It was stated not long ago in the media that South Africa's fragile democracy requires more individuals in institutions such as Parliament that are able to elevate the level of discussion and oversight to such an extent that democracy is served. There can be no doubt that the hon Asmal is such an individual.
After serving with the hon Asmal on the Chapter 9 Review Committee, I can personally attest to his unequalled levels of professionalism, diligence and especially insight. His CV speaks for itself. I am nevertheless certain that the hon Asmal will illustrate these qualities in his future endeavours.
The NA wishes to express its sincere thanks to the hon Asmal for his invaluable contribution while he was a member of this House. May all your future plans bear the fruits you intend them to. Good luck. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs P DE LILLE
END OF TAKE
Mr S SIMMONS
Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I am sure that we are only saying farewell to the professor from Parliament and not farewell to him completely. He is certainly not going back into exile and he will pop up in some other forums. We will still hear a lot from him.
I first met Prof when I arrived at the World Trade Centre in Kempton Park. I found it very difficult to understand his accent - worse so if we had meetings after dinner. I found that even more difficult.
But he was a debater. You could learn a lot from him. There was no way trying to disagree with him because he would always beat you in an argument. So, he was there in shaping the constitutional principles, our interim constitution and our final Constitution.
Prof, we all remember those late nights when both of us were still smoking and we were sitting outside here gossiping about a few of our colleagues.
There is still some unfinished business: the Code of Ethics that you started. I would have loved to see you take the process to where we turn the Code of Ethics into an Act of Parliament that would make it more enforceable.
But we want to thank the Asmal family, his wife and his children, for allowing us to share Kader Asmal with this wonderful country of ours. I also want to say thank you to the professor for protecting our democracy. He makes no excuses when it comes to his country. He stands his ground and he wants to protect the gains of our struggle and the gains of democracy. That is why I brought a special guest with to come and say farewell to the professor today – my old friend, Beezy Bailey. They were all saying that Kader Asmal is not lost to the country. He will always be there; we will always hear from him in one way or another. Prof, thank you very much for your guidance. [Applause.]
Prof A K ASMAL
END OF TAKE
Mrs P DE LILLE
Prof A K ASMAL: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, friends, hon members, comrades, Your Excellencies, I am not allowed to reply to any of the speakers. But I can tell the hon Minister of Finance that I arrived in Southampton the day Fidel Castro entered Havana. That is my claim to history. [Laughter.]
You have done me a great honour in allowing me time to say a few words on my retirement from Parliament. I am touched by the expressions of support and solidarity by members of political parties. I am one of the now dwindling band of parliamentarians who have been here since 1994 and the dawn of democracy in our country. I am also one of the now few remaining people who were involved in the worldwide anti-apartheid struggle inspired by my movement, the ANC, and the noble Freedom Charter.
Let me just say something about this worldwide movement, because the world has never seen an expression of that type of a single united front. It was a struggle that uniquely galvanised the international community, a struggle that united humanity and mobilised the UN, a struggle that relied on the selfless support and sacrifice of the frontline states of Southern Africa and an enormous number of Africans, in particular, from Tanzanian athletes who boycotted the Montreal Games in 1974 to the dockers of Sydney. It was invigorating and humbling to be part of that awakening of the conscience of the world to combat the apartheid crime against humanity.
I also come from that generation of which Judge, then Prof, Albie Sachs wrote:
If a constitution is the autobiography of a nation, then we are the privileged generation that will do the writing.
This book that we have produced is here with us and it is everywhere. This book is the guarantor of our freedom. It is therefore a real challenge to know what to say to do justice to this occasion - although I can assure you that these will not be the last words you will hear from me.
When the famous Labour MP Tony Benn retired from the House of Commons after 51 years, he quoted his wife as saying that now he would have more time for politics. [Laughter.] Perhaps Louise, my present wife and partner of 46 years, would say something similar. Certainly today marks not the end of the story, but the start of a new chapter. I shall not be leaving public life because politics is in my blood. I am one of those old-fashioned people who think that politics is an essential activity for young people. It is part of the public good. We must never deny politics as part of the patrimony, that enormous contribution we make to democracy. My whole life has been one long political journey where the public and the private had been inseparable.
Departing members are allowed, Madam Speaker, to give one final consolation, a valedictory speech - an occasion for some reflection, explanation, much self-indulgence and a little ancestor worship. [Laughter.]
My journey began over 60 years ago with my relationship with Albertina's father, Albert Luthuli. I was inspired by his vision of a free, nonracial South Africa with justice and equal rights for all. It was he who drew my attention to the struggle and indivisibility of human rights after I had seen films of the practices and the merciless cruelty of the Nazis in the concentration camps inflicted on Jews, Slavs, communists and homosexuals alike in a supposedly civilised country. This has always made me subscribe to the fact that education is no automatic pathway to civilisation. It was then that I understood the brave words of Dietrich Bonhoeffer which have driven my life:
Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.
As a school teacher to start with - and some rudely say that I never stopped teaching - and afterwards as a law student in London with the excitement of the great anti-colonial struggles taking place then, being part of the great sweep for freedom in Africa and Asia and being part of the extraordinary British tradition of protest and excited as a lecturer in Dublin, I saw law as an instrument for liberation - not for comfort and not for money making. It was for liberation and it was exhilarating.
As a lecturer in Dublin, we used a new international law to advance the worldwide anti-apartheid struggle. The years of exile were long, but the friendships made in that struggle, comrades who visited Dublin to assist in raising awareness, and the solidarity of the Irish people, who taught me that one must never fight over water – other liquids are different - made all this worthwhile. [Laughter.]
Academic life, family life, and my involvement in the ANC, the Irish Anti-Apartheid Movement and the Irish Council for Civil Liberties - the last two of which I helped to found – have made a rich tapestry. The roll-call of those who helped extended from former Irish president Mary Robinson and Nobel Prize winner John Hume to trade unionists such as Mary Manning. Those from Southern Africa and the rest of Africa whom we invited to further the anti-apartheid campaigns included Amilcar Cabral, Oliver Tambo, Sam Nujoma, Joe Slovo, Thabo Mbeki, Ruth First, Ronald Segal - who unfortunately died only Saturday - and of course Nelson Mandela, the icon of our struggle, who gave the imprint to our international campaign. They have given me a lifelong commitment to the ideals of self-determination, of freedom, justice, human dignity and equal rights for all.
These ideals find expression in the Constitution of our country. It is worthwhile reminding ourselves what this Constitution was about. As Chief Justice Mahomed explained in his judgement in 1995, it is no ordinary constitution. He said, and I quote:
In some countries the constitution only formalises, in a legal instrument, a historical consensus of values and aspirations evolved incrementally from a stable, unbroken past to accommodate the needs of the future.
It is usually an arrangement by elites for their own future.
I go back to Mahomed:
The South African Constitution is different: it retains from the past only what is defensible and represents a decisive break from, and ringing rejection of, that part of the past which is disgracefully racist, authoritarian, insular and repressive, and a vigorous identification of commitment to a democratic, universalist, caring, aspirationally egalitarian ethos expressly articulated in the Constitution.
It is a remarkable document, therefore, and Mahomed reflects on the transition from monster to liberty.
Ten years as a Minister, taking part in one of the most creative acts of reconstruction the world has seen, was incredibly rewarding. For a little boy from a dusty little town in KwaZulu-Natal, Stanger, to be a Minister in Nelson Mandela's Cabinet was something that you could not have envisaged. [Applause.] You could not have anticipated that. You could not have even revelled in it. It was beyond celebration to be with this extraordinary man for five years.
What we have achieved together, in ten years in the Cabinet and subsequently, cannot be expunged from memory because of our current difficulties. This Cabinet was driven by the same urge, impulse, for reconstruction as identified by the previous Chief Justice. It was a remarkable achievement: to set up a centralised government system from 18 baronies, 18 tribal institutions; to set up one central Public Service from the plurality of alleged civil services throughout South Africa; to set up one Defence Force, one air force and one navy from all those little tinpot soldiers ... [Laughter.] It is extraordinary, too, in historic terms. It is remarkable.
As I said before, delivery is not only about how many houses we have built – which is rather remarkable because we have broken all the records – how many taps there have been, how much water there is, how the school system has changed. You must go round South Africa to see how much the school system has changed. It is not about that; it is in fact about how we have empowered ourselves by creating a new South Africa, an institutional new South Africa. Never let it be forgotten. [Applause.] It never happened in history. This is a remarkable triumph.
Our Constitution is not a dead document. It applies to all of us today. It urges us to care for those who live in our country and to work towards a better life for all. It is our collective pledge – since we are talking about pledges all the time now! [Laughter.] In other words, it is our collective pledge. It embodies values which this House must respect, which permeate the laws we pass, indeed every aspect of our lives and how we live our own individual lives. Our Constitution permeates all that.
It is a living instrument, hon members, that enlarges our freedoms, and restricts our power to act arbitrarily and capriciously. So we may not like these restrictions – and I must confess that those who have power often don't like restrictions, and we know that. We may be tempted to take shortcuts, to ride roughshod over others in order to reach the goals we seek - goals that may be pre-eminently sensible and necessary. But I must confess that as a Minister I was sometimes impatient with the process of consultation in the parliamentary committee meetings and especially the study groups. Nevertheless, such democratic processes are essential to our progress. They are vital to our progress. A famous British politician, Heseltine, said:
We must all confess to inadequacies and errors, but we don't have to do it often and publicly then.
[Laughter.]
We cannot afford to manoeuvre around the human rights our Constitution has laid down. The processes are laid down in the Constitution. We must not attack the separation of powers, as laid down in the Constitution, because the separation of powers is vital to ensure that one organ does not acquire the powers and authority of another. And, of course, we need to follow the spirit of the Constitution, not only the letter.
Human rights are never static; they are always dynamic. They are never completely won, just as they are never completely lost. In our defence of them, we cannot afford to stand still. Vigilance is always necessary, not because of the executive – private power can be more indefensible, more offensive and hurtful than public power. Never forget that. Never forget the arbitrariness of private power, because it's all done, as members of the House love me saying, in a hugger-mugger fashion … [Laughter.] … secretly, quietly, whereas public power is used openly.
And so we must be careful about power. We must not have the complacency that allows cheating in prices of basic products, as we are faced with now. The full punishment of the law must defeat those who cheat the public. It is this sort of complacency that betrayed the people of Kenya and, dare I say, Zimbabwe also. We need constantly to seek to improve how and by what means we can promote and protect the rights set out in our own Bill of Rights. This is the challenge that Parliament faces.
I must say actually: I've loved being in Parliament. I've waited for 350 years to be in a council of this kind. I love the cut and thrust of debate. And let me tell you that compared to other parliaments – and I've been to many, many Parliaments – this Parliament is much more effective in terms of debate than elsewhere. Really! And, of course, if you think that this Parliament is offensive in its behaviour, you should go to the Australian parliament, for example. [Laughter.]
Our democracy is young; it is still fragile. This places a heavy burden on you in Parliament to ensure that the rule of law prevails and that government and its agents govern under the law as laid down in the Constitution, whether in relation to immigrants or in combating terrorism.
This body, this Parliament, has a crucial role to play for human rights to retain their primacy in our new democracy. The extraordinary thing about the multiculturalism is that everyone has different identities, multiple identities. This, while those who have taught us about civilisation, Europe, are now restricting the rights of immigrants and others by inventing core values which are mythical, because they never existed.
It is very important that we should subscribe to this idea of multiculturalism and freedom of culture, language and religion – central aspects of identity which have given rise, of course as you know, elsewhere in the world, in Europe in particular, to civil war. Of course, one of the most advanced countries in the world, Belgium, has had no government for the past nine months, because the two language groups can't agree. Maybe the moral of that is that you don't need a centralised government if you have an efficient public service, as they have in Belgium.
But that is an issue that might divide a country into two, because they can't agree on language. So to retain what we have done is enormously important.
For human rights to be progressively realised, the enjoinder that is attached by the Constitution and to the array of socioeconomic rights that our Bill of Rights enshrines, is that government must actively pursue them, and portfolio committees must insist every year on departments accounting to them on delivery.
Under our Constitution, we have established a series of Chapter 9 bodies aimed at promoting, enlarging and defending different aspects of democracy and human rights. I was proud to be asked to chair a body to look at the progress and efficiency of these bodies. I must say that you were enthusiastically committed to that study, and we're all very grateful. The report of more than 250 pages was unanimously adopted, which then goes back to what we did in 1993 and 1994, which no one should deny or decry. Parliament will, I hope, set aside time to debate the questions that our report raised, and to decide whether or not our recommendations should be implemented.
These are all the countervailing bodies. Another is the press. We must respect the freedom of the press, not because the Constitution says so, but because it is necessary for our freedom in our country. We must cherish all these countervailing bodies, and particularly the freedom of the press. We should not be afraid of being robust in our pursuit of oversight and accountability. And I speak to members of my own party, and this party has been something so dear to me for nearly 50 years. It is as much in our interests as the ruling party as anyone else's, as the Minister has said here, to find constructive ways to engage with the executive to find solutions and to ensure that we are responding to the precise needs and priorities of the most vulnerable members of society.
I look forward to the next chapter of my political journey. I will continue to be involved in public life in one way or another. And always remember what Nelson Mandela uttered 50 years ago: Do not treat ordinary people as victims for "they can rise from being the object of history to becoming the subject of history" by "becoming the conscious creators of our own history". This is a wonderful challenge.
This dream of freedom kept our hopes alive. But:
History says, Don't hope
On this side of the grave,
Seamus Heaney's tribute to Nelson Mandela is a tribute to hope, as he concludes:
But then, once in a lifetime
The longed for tidal wave
Of justice can rise up
And hope and history rhyme.
Hon members, continue hoping. I shall miss you, hon members. I shall never forget you. You are the tribunes of our people. Nor shall I ever forget the many unsung heroes and heroines of our struggle, both in this country and in Britain and Ireland, for whom I have worked. I owe a huge debt of gratitude to them.
I must also thank the staff who supported me when I was first Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry and then Minister of Education, as well as the parliamentary staff. They have shown an extraordinary degree of professionalism and loyalty. Many of them are here in the gallery.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiza kunikhumbula nonke, malungu abekekileyo; andisokuze ndinilibale. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Kaloku sizizicaka zabantu baseMzantsi Afrika.
English:
That's it then. Shalom, namaste, salaam, salani kahle, salani kakuhle, salang hantle, tot siens, goodbye. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
END OF TAKE
Prof A K ASMAL
RETIREMENT OF PROF A K ASMAL
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House, in view of the imminent retirement of Prof Kader Asmal, MP –
(1) commends him on performing his duties as an exemplary parliamentarian, worthy of emulation;
(2) recognises his invaluable contributions in this Parliament, among others as a prominent member of the Cabinet, as a leading contributor to the writing of our Constitution and as a chairperson of various significant committees;
(3) conveys to him that his colleagues, from both sides of the House, will fondly remember him as a fearless custodian of democratic values, an independent thinker and a rousing orator; and
(4) wishes Prof Asmal well in his retirement.
[Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Obviously there is no objection. That concludes the farewell speeches. The Presiding Officers, myself and the Deputy Speaker, would also like to take this opportunity to add our own appreciation to Comrade Kader Asmal for his energy, for the exemplary, very dignified and energetic manner in which he went about his duties. Thank you very much, and we say good luck to those who are going to receive you in the next part of your journey. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Agreed to.
The MINISTER OF FINANCE
END OF TAKE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
DIVISION OF REVENUE BILL
(Second Reading debate)
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Speaker, hon members, one of the successes of our democracy is the ability of the executives in all three spheres of government to come together annually to agree on how the nationally raised revenues are to be shared. I say this is remarkable, because every year we do this in a context of the basic economic challenge of ever-rising needs that have to be traded off and balanced against one another and thereafter fitted within a finite resource envelope. However, under the guidance of the executive leadership of national, provincial and local governments, every year we have been able to emerge with an approach to the sharing of revenue that this House has always felt comfortable to support.
Our Constitution requires that government ensures a transparent and equitable system to divide nationally raised revenue among the three spheres of government. Today I stand before this House to invite you, the elected representatives, to consider yet another Division of Revenue Bill. The Bill is an embodiment of the co-operative relations within our system of governance. It proposes to allocate total expenditure of R611 billion for 2008-09, which includes debt service costs of R51,2 billion and a contingency reserve of R6 billion. Excluding interest and the contingency reserve, it recommends that national government receive R273,9 billion or 49,5%; provinces R238,1 billion or 43%; and municipalities R41,9 billion or 7,6%.
While the Bill and all the other budget documents that we tabled in this House last week serve a valuable purpose in setting out government's policy priorities for the next three years, and in some cases even go as far as to set output targets and measurable objectives, the story contained in them can only be complete when the nine provincial budgets are tabled over the next two weeks and when our 283 municipalities table their own budgets before the start of the municipal financial year in July.
Collectively, provinces and municipalities will account for R279,9 billion or 51% of allocated expenditure in the next financial year. Therefore, unless we can foster strong alignment between provincial and local government budgets and the policy imperatives that underpin the sharing of the resources, the promises that will be made by my colleagues responsible for concurrent functions during the debate in their Budget Votes will only remain ideals. For them to translate into physical infrastructure and services that contribute to the progressive realisation of the socioeconomic rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights, they must find expression in the provincial and local government budgets. Anything short of this would be an indictment of our intergovernmental arrangements.
Often my colleagues responsible for concurrent functions find themselves in the unenviable position of having to make policy pronouncements and service delivery promises in good faith that do not always get funded in provincial budgets. Surely this is not their problem alone, nor is it an issue for the NCOP to grapple with. Rather it is a challenge of our system of government as a whole. As elected representatives we must take collective responsibility to debate it and find solutions thereto.
As we are poised to consider the Division of Revenue Bill I do not think it would be unreasonable to invite the various portfolio committees responsible for concurrent functions to consider how they can engage with the issue of improving alignment between national policy imperatives that inform the division of revenue and provincial and municipal budgets. This notion that it's the Portfolio Committee on Finance or the Joint Budget Committee that must examine in the detail education, health and welfare spending in the provinces and that the portfolio committees are outside of this debate surely doesn't assist in the development of an intergovernmental system.
The time to do this is now when the process for reviewing our system of provincial and local government that was launched last year by Minister Mufamadi is under way. For our part, as the National Treasury, we can provide this House with a set of consolidated provincial budget data and comparative input indicators by the beginning of April, which can be used to assess the alignment between provincial budgets and national priorities.
The annual Division of Revenue Bill we present to this House gives effect to section 214 of the Constitution, which requires a Bill like this to be tabled each year. For the bulk of the resources that are allocated through equitable shares it is provinces and municipalities that will budget for these allocations, determining how their share of funds will be used to give expression to the priorities which are set collectively by our government.
The division of revenue contained in this Bill gives effect to the Apex Priorities articulated by President Mbeki in the state of the nation address on 8 February. The budget framework allows us to provide R115,6 billion in additional spending over the next three years, compared to our plans of a year earlier. Of the additional resources, national departments will receive R55,5 billion, provinces R45,7 billion and municipalities R14,4 billion.
Schedule 1 of the Bill provides a summary of the allocation of funds to the three spheres of government after taking account of the revision's baseline. Increased allocations are also there for a range of provincial functions, including conditional transfers. Allocations to provinces will amount to R238 billion in fiscal year 2008-09 and the increase over the baseline for the next three years amounts to R46 billion to provide in particular for improvements in education, health, welfare and housing programmes. The 2008 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework includes about R32 billion for occupation-specific dispensations in the social services sectors. This allocation is a reflection of our willingness to pay more for skilled professionals who work hard and serve the public diligently. We expect a return on this investment, however, and it is up to the legislatures and the public to ensure that we receive better services in return.
In addition to providing additional funding for the expansion of Grade R and the continued roll-out of the New Curriculum Statement, the allocations contained in this Division of Revenue Bill add a further R1,8 billion to the school nutrition programme over the MTEF to extend coverage to more learners, to improve the quality of meals, to provide meals on more school days and cushion the programme against higher food prices. To further reduce school infrastructure backlogs, R2,7 billion is added to the infrastructure grant for provinces. Preliminary provincial budgets show that over R17,8 billion is earmarked for school infrastructure over the next three years.
With these additions to education spending, South Africa continues to spend more on education than countries of comparable income levels, but our education outcomes remain abysmal. We must debate the matter in this House. How do we improve the outcomes of our education system in line with the investments we make in it?
In respect of health, the comprehensive HIV and Aids programme receives an additional R2,1 billion, including to meet greater demand arising from the take-up of antiretroviral medication. Spending on the programme will be about R10 billion over the next three years. In addition, certain health conditional grants are scaled up considerably. The hospital revitalisation programme receives an additional R2 billion to assist provinces to continue to equip and modernise hospitals. A total of R9,6 billion is allocated to hospital revitalisation over the next three years. Provinces are also requested to step up their hospital maintenance budgets. The national tertiary services grant is increased by R1,1 billion particularly to fund diagnostic radiology, telemedicine and oncology.
Once again, the housing programme is increased by some R2,2 billion.
With regard to local government, the focus over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework is to help poorer municipalities with limited revenue-raising capacity to meet their developmental objectives. Over the next three years municipalities will receive R152,7 billion, including R7,5 billion in allocations in kind. This includes an additional R14,4 billion over baseline. A total of R30,2 billion is set aside to compensate municipalities for the loss of revenue from the regional service council levies which will be replaced with an appropriate tax next year. National transfers to local government will grow by 14,1% a year over the MTEF. The local government equitable share receives a further R6,5 billion over baseline to sustain the momentum gathered over the years in delivering free water, electricity and sanitation to all poor households.
Municipal infrastructure-related spending is allocated an additional R7 billion over the next three years. This results in total infrastructure transfers to municipalities totalling just under R57 billion over the next three years. The municipal infrastructure grant receives an additional R3,8 billion over baseline. Part of the additional allocation is used to facilitate step changes in the minimum baseline allocations for all municipalities. By 2010-11 municipalities would receive municipal infrastructure grant allocations of at least R6 billion.
Finally, allocations for capacity-building and restructuring totalling R1,5 billion over the 2008 MTEF includes R800 million for Siyenza Manje via the Development Bank of Southern Africa to develop skills in engineering, planning and financial management as part of the programme for strengthening the capacity of municipalities to deliver services and roll out infrastructure.
The allocations contained in this year's Division of Revenue Bill should enable government to accelerate delivery and improve the efficacy of public services. We all know that money is only one element of success in this regard. We have a collective political responsibility to ensure that the money allocated achieves its intended effect. Once again, we remind hon members that we are in this together. "Siyimbumba. Siyabulela kakhulu." [Together. Thank you very much.] [Applause.]
Mr N M NENE
END OF TAKE
The MINISTER OF FINANCE
IsiZulu:
Mr N M NENE: Ngiyabonga ukuba uNgqongqoshe wezezimali ubesaqhubeka nokuba yisanusi sezulu esingayidli imbumba njengoba sambona ngamhla ethula isabiwo mali ngesonto eledlule, ngabe uyasitshela ukuthi kwezinye izifundazwe nezifunda zale lizwe, ismo somnotho sibafazi bedube inyama, kanti kwezinye ke njalo simathumbu entaka, bese kuthi kwezinye likhipha umkhovu etsheni kodwa ke ngoba kwabiwa imali sesingasho nje Ngqongqoshe ukuthi hhayi idubukele, Phini lika Somlomo.
Lo mthethosivivinywa ophambi kwale Ndlu namhlanje uhlose ukuyaba ngezithebe ukuze zonke izigaba zikahulumeni zithole ngokulingene ukuze zifeze izidingo zabantu bale lizwe baze bahlomule kule nkululeko ngokuphelele.
English:
Equitable allocation of resources is at the centre of ensuring the dream of our forebears and activists who drafted the people's charter more than 50 years ago when they asserted that the people shall share in the country's wealth. We are once again called upon to rise to this occasion of the realisation of the dreams and aspirations of a better life for all in terms of our Constitution, as it enjoins us to pass an Act of Parliament that allocates nationally raised revenue among the three spheres of government.
When the Minister of Finance tabled the Appropriation Bill and other documents last week, he also tabled this piece of legislation, the Division of Revenue Bill. This was then referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance by this House for consideration and report, as we hereby do.
Chapter 8 of the Budget Review outlines the vertical allocation of this nationally raised revenue in more detail. According to this chapter, national departments receive 49,5%, and the Minister has mentioned the actual figures in rands and cents, with provinces receiving 43% and local government 7,6%. Over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period, transfers to provinces grow by an average of 12,7% annually and those to local government grow by a significant 14,5%. This is in recognition by the ANC government of the important developmental role that provinces and municipalities play.
The significant additional allocations to provinces are made in order to continue extending the reach and quality of services in education, health, welfare services, agriculture and housing. This will particularly be used to improve working conditions for health professionals, educators and social workers. It is also meant to step up the school building programme, provide greater access to the integrated school nutrition programme and improve public health care.
In the same spirit, additional allocations to local government, both to the equitable share and the municipal infrastructure grant, are meant to support community access to basic services and infrastructure delivery. These allocations are of course supported by initiatives to improve financial management and to boost capacity in planning, budgeting and implementation of infrastructure programmes.
Of particular importance is the revision of the provincial budget framework that takes into account that provinces play a key role in implementing programmes that alleviate poverty and vulnerability, and which strengthen social cohesion. It is in this respect that the ANC, in the 8 January statement, calls for activism characterised by the establishment of street committees, in order to ensure that communities are mobilised to be their own liberators from poverty and underdevelopment, and declaring this year a year of mass mobilisation to build a caring society.
The provincial equitable share formula, as detailed in the explanatory memorandum of the Division of Revenue Bill, focuses on the six components that capture the relative demand for services between provinces, taking into account their circumstances. The first component is the education share, which is 51% based on the size of the school-age population and the number of learners enrolled in public schools. The second one is the health share which is 26% based on the proportion of the population without medical aid. The third one is the basic share of 14% which is derived from each province's share of the national population. The fourth is the institutional component which is 5% and is divided equally among provinces. The fifth is the poverty component of 3% which reinforces the redistributive bias of the formula. The economic output is the last one, which is based on the gross domestic product by region data, which is the GDPR.
These components of the formula are neither indicative budgets nor guidelines for how much should be spent on those functions, as provincial executives have full discretion regarding the determination of departmental allocations for each function, taking into account the priorities that underpin the division of revenue. For this Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period, the formula has been updated with the data from the 2007 community survey which was released last year, the 2007 education snapshot survey, the general household survey and the 2005 GDPR, as the impact of these updates is being phased in over the coming three years.
This division of revenue reflects the policy priorities as outlined in the ANC's 52nd national conference, and further announced in the 8 January statement and then concretised in the state of the nation address. This demonstrates the ANC's will to utilise the Budget as a political instrument of intervening in driving society towards a progressive realisation of socioeconomic rights through the provision of universal access to basic services and ongoing programmes aimed at poverty alleviation.
The other area that receives particular attention is that of conditional grants that are aimed at speeding up the realisation of basic human rights. The conditional grant framework is also revised upward substantially in the coming MTEF, with most of the additional funding going to HIV and Aids, the national schools nutrition programme and infrastructure-related grants. A new grant, the devolution of property rates funds to provinces, is also introduced and the further education and training colleges' recapitalisation grant is phased into the provincial equitable share from April next year.
The local government budget framework is also revised, with a particular focus on the poorer municipalities, as the Minister has indicated, that have limited revenue-raising capacity to meet their developmental objectives. Such municipalities are allocated additional allocations on their municipal infrastructure grant and financial management grants.
Once again, we urge communities to participate in the development of their independent development plans, and holding their elected representatives to account. As our report indicates, the committee considered this Bill and reports it to this House without amendments. The ANC supports the Division of Revenue Bill of 2008. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S J F MARAIS
END OF TAKE
Mr N M NENE
Mr S J F MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, the Division of Revenue Bill has far-reaching implications that can either improve service delivery and the quality of life of all our citizens or, if managed improperly and poorly, it can add to the misery, agony and frustration of our citizens who so desperately deserve better service delivery.
The Bill not only empowers national government but, importantly, the provincial and local governments, the two spheres closest to the general public, for service delivery and economic development through the equitable division of revenue raised nationally. This Bill specifically also provides funding for the infrastructure development to support the hosting of the 2010 Fifa World Cup. Compliments must be given to National Treasury for the empathetic manner in reasonably accommodating the realities of especially local governments.
Afrikaans:
Voorsitter, hierdie wetsontwerp bevestig weer eens onomwonde die steun aan owerhede regoor die hele Suid-Afrika vir nie net die verbetering van dienslewering op alle gebiede nie, maar ook vir die stimulering van ekonomiese groei. Die rede vir substandaard dienslewering deur provinsies en plaaslike regerings kan verseker nie toegeskryf word aan die tekort aan verdeling van fondse nie. Die uitdaging is eerder die uitkomsgerigte en effektiewe bestuur van fondse en verwante prosesse.
Alhoewel die wetsontwerp ook voorsiening maak vir die administratiewe prosesse om dit te bevorder, is dit baie belangrik dat die Parlement sy oorsigrol behoorlik nakom en nie eers wanneer Skoor die tekorte en probleme identifiseer nie. Daar is eenvoudig te veel voorbeelde waar veral plaaslike regerings misluk in hulle belangrike rol as katalisator vir ekonomiese groei, werkskepping en dienslewering in ooreenstemming met die fondse beskikbaar gestel. Die relevante portefeuljekomitees, maar spesifiek die portefeuljekomitee verantwoordelik vir Provinsiale en Plaaslike Regering, sal 'n onwrikbare oorsig moet hou oor die implementering en doelwit hiervan.
English:
Part of the new transformation challenges of our economy will be how to successfully address the skills shortages, which is probably the biggest contributor to underperformance at all spheres of government.
Afrikaans:
Voorsitter, hoewel die DA realisties is oor die belemmeringselemente is ons gemaklik met die bepalings en oogmerke van hierdie wetsontwerp en sal ons daarom die aanvaarding daarvan steun. Ek dank u. [Applous.]
Mr N SINGH
END OF TAKE
Mr S J F MARAIS
Mr N SINGH: Madam Deputy Speaker, the IFP has always very strongly believed that delivery of services to the public has to occur at the lowest level of government. In such a scenario it is the level of government closest to the people that knows local conditions best and that is best placed to take into account the needs and aspirations of the communities. It is for this reason that the IFP fought so hard and resolutely during the constitutional negotiations for the establishment of provincial governments and maximum devolution of powers to this level.
We have heard from the hon Minister that the Bill before the House today divides national revenue between the three levels of government. We, as the IFP, welcome the increased allocations to the other two levels of government.
Faster-than-expected national economic growth in the past few years and better tax collection have meant that the Minister of Finance is in the fortunate position of having a larger revenue cake to slice up between the three spheres of government.
However, we believe that the availability of money to allocate is no longer the main problem. The main problem and the main challenge for these spheres is the ability of provincial and local governments to spend their allocations for the provision of basic services, infrastructure and other essential functions.
Even though third-quarter spending up to December 2007 had improved over previous years, the IFP remains concerned that not all provinces and municipalities are meeting their spending targets and are not utilising the funds they receive. Clearly, this fact is related to capacity constraints - hon Marais referred to this - and a shortage of scare skills being experienced at those levels of government.
Another concern that we have is criminal activity, in particular at provincial and municipal levels. Last week the Public Service Commission released a report on financial misconduct among public servants, listing 1 042 such cases to the tune of R130 million lost to the state. Of these cases, the vast majority occurred at provincial level, which must be a grave concern for the hon Minister of Finance.
We are also concerned about some R80 million which has been unaccounted for in the KwaZulu-Natal Department of Agriculture. There was an investigation, but we want that investigation to be made public. It hasn't been made public. But what is of concern to us is that the head of department who was responsible at that time, has received the maximum performance bonus. What for? We do not know, but he has gone out with a lovely golden handshake.
We welcome the fact that grant-funding will now be directed to category B municipalities and they can spend directly. We are also pleased that clause 31 has been introduced, so that municipalities and the other spheres of government will have to advertise whatever they are going to spend on.
As we indicated earlier, we support the Division of Revenue Bill, but we stress that allocating money is one thing; efficiently spending it on projects that address the needs of the poorest communities is a completely different animal. We support the Bill and we hope that the moneys will be used to alleviate poverty, and stimulate economic growth and job creation in the poorest of the poor communities. Thank you. Siyimbumba, [we are one,] hon Minister! [Applause.]
Mr J BICI
END OF TAKE
Mr N SINGH
Mr J BICI: Deputy Speaker and hon members, once more we gather here to face the annual dilemma of dividing revenue amongst the three spheres of government. Though there can be no doubt about the necessity of spreading our revenue downwards to provincial and local government in an effort to bring the means for service delivery as close to the point of actual delivery as possible, we are nevertheless faced with the opposite reality that these spheres of government have a dismal track record.
It is a matter for deep concern that provinces and councils, usually those that are responsible for the poorest regions of our country, are incapable of properly spending the funds that are allocated to them. Some provinces, such as the Eastern Cape, are repeat offenders when it comes to failure to spend vital funds. We thus look upon this Division of Revenue Bill with trepidation. We cannot, however, disagree with it. Yet, we have serious reservations about the ability of this division to result in the same opportunity of delivery as envisaged by this House.
We can call upon the national government, especially Treasury, to provide us with reassurance that there are real strategies in place to ensure that funding actually gets spent to the benefit of the people. There is no point in a fair and equitable division of revenue that is merely returned unspent to national government. The UDM supports the Bill. Thank you.
Mr S N SWART
END OF TAKE
Mr J BICI
Mr S N SWART: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the Constitution requires that nationally raised revenue should be shared equally between national, provincial and local government, and this is set out in this Bill. The provincial equitable share baselines are revised upwardly to R33,2 billion and the conditional grants are increased by R12,5 billion over the next three years, at an average growth rate of 12,7%.
The ACDP welcomes these increased allocations for provinces to provide for improvement in education, public health care, welfare and housing programmes, as well as investment in roads, agriculture, economic affairs, tourism and job creation under the Expanded Public Works Programme. However, we share your concerns, hon Minister, regarding education, considering the huge funds allocated to it, with education still being, as you put it, abysmal.
We need to ensure that government departments at the three levels can spend the funds that Parliament allocates. Capacity constraints must be addressed. All indications are that capital spending, which is crucial to government's efforts in building improved infrastructure, is lagging behind due to a shortage of skilled persons, engineers and project managers. This is particularly so at local government level where service delivery is most urgently needed. We need to train and qualify more engineers, and as a short-term solution, possibly bring back retired or expatriate engineers and other skilled persons.
We in the ACDP also trust that the public sector wage agreement and the occupation-specific dispensations for educators, social workers and nurses will attract and retain personnel to these sectors.
The national allocation to local government grows by R14,4 billion over a three-year period and that we support, as we believe that these additional allocations will enable municipalities to improve and speed up service delivery.
Hon Minister, the ACDP shares your sentiment that we are in this together and that we have the responsibility to ensure that allocated funds achieve their stated goals. The ACDP will support this Bill. I thank you.
Mr B E PULE
END OF TAKE
Mr S N SWART
Mr B E PULE: Madam Deputy Speaker, this is said to be the 12th Division of Revenue Bill the Minister has given, the 12th to be imbued with enthusiasm and, of course, the 12th to be passed by this House. One big question to be answered is: How many of these allocations will escape the popular terms used in the Auditor-General's report of "adverse", "disclaimers", "qualified", "noncompliance with legislation", "lack of internal control and asset management", "emphasis of matter", and above all, "lack of capacity and skills".
The Auditor-General's opinion on national departments for 2005-06 and 2006-07 is that out of 34 departments, only three received unqualified opinion; with 19 emphasis of matter, 11 qualified and one disclaimer. This dates back from the 2003-04 financial year.
In the same breath, the Auditor-General's report on provincial governments and municipalities is also too ghastlyto contemplate. One never stops to shudder to the marrow of one's bones, looking at how these funds are used.
The audit opinions on almost all provincial departments and municipalities range from "adverse" to "disclaimer", "disqualified", "matters of emphasis", you name them. In fact, there should not be any radicalism on the Division of Revenue Bill per se, but rather on legislative oversight. It imposes upon this House an onerous duty through the relevant committees' accountability. If the executive authority does not crack the whip on accounting officers, South Africa will go down the precipice and "business as usual" will undoubtedly spell national calamity.
The UCDP supports the Division of Revenue Bill. I thank you.
Ms S RAJBALLY
END OF TAKE
Mr B E PULE
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, firstly, I take this opportunity to applaud our brilliant Minister of Finance, the hon Trevor Manuel, and his phenomenal finance team for producing a workable budget once again. The Division of Revenue Bill, as we know, sets all spheres in motion as we issue our budgets to produce results. We continue to experience roll-overs and shortages.
The MF is determined to assist government in addressing the loopholes that hamper delivery. The shortage of skilled labour and vacancies, as the hon President so aptly pointed out, and poor planning need to be tackled by the horns. If we do not have a local reserve of candidates for these posts, we should consider outsourcing until we have built a base that we may recruit from.
The MF finds this an equitable division of funds that maintains both co-operative governance and the independence of each sphere. We would like to stress the need to intensify transparency and checks and balances at all levels of government. In view of the provincial division of funds, the MF is pleased to note that priority is given to KZN in view of the colossal challenges in this province.
We believe that the allocations made to both the provincial and local government are service-intensive and promise a year to deliver. As we are fast approaching the end of this political term, may services be driven to encourage the people's faith in our commitment to serve them. However, let this not serve as a smokescreen for political agendas. Let us not forget what democracy is and what it must be built on. The MF supports the Division of Revenue Bill. I thank you.
Mr M T LIKOTSI
END OF TAKE
Ms S RAJBALLY
Mr M T LIKOTSI: Madam Deputy Speaker, let me first tell Comrade Minister of Finance that I am going to use a language which may need his earpiece to understand what I am saying.
Sesotho:
Motlatsa Spika, ere ke qale pele ka ho hlokomedisa Letona la Ditjhelete hore ke tlo sebedisa puo e tla hloka hore a sebedise motjhini o tolokelang hore a tle a utlwe se ke tlo se buang mona.
Re le mokga wa APC re lebohela tshwaelo ditekanyetsong tsena tsa matlotlo tsa letona la ditjhelete Mong Trevor Manuel. Re le APC, re lebohela kabo ena ya matlotlo e etseditsweng ho ntsha setjhaba sa rona maqakabetsing a bofutsana, tlala le mafu setjhabemg sa heso se futsanehile haholo, batho ba bangata ba robala ka mpha e lephako, ba hloka dibaka tsa bodulo ba robala mebileng. Batho ba rona ba fetohile dipalopalo tsa matjhaba tsa lefu la HIV-Aids le mafu a mangata a sa phekoleheng. Bana ke mahlasipa, ebile ba bitswa di-street-kids. Mong ya kgabane haho na ho re thusa ka letho ho iketsa botlhale ntlhajana ka bofutsana bo aparetseng setjaba. Pheko e nngwe feela, mme yona ke hore re hlahlobise leano la rona la moruo eleng Macro Economic Policy. Haeba leano lena ha le re sebeletse ho thibela mafu a kang mokakallane wa sejwalejwale, e leng yona HIV AIDS, ho nyoloha ha ditheko tsa dijo le mafura a koloi – Fuel, ditheko tsa thuto dikong le dikolong tsa thuto e phahameng ha le fetolwe. Seo re se batlang ke leano la moruo le tla tlisa botsitso ka hara naha. Re batla lenao la moruo le tla thibela mathata a motlakase, metsi, petrolo le dijo tsa theko e phahameng. Re batla leano la moruo le tla neha bana ba rona thuto ya semahla ho tloha sekolong sa dikonyana ho fihlela thutong e phahameng, ho grata ya pele. Re le APC re tshehetsa kabo ena ya ditjhelete.
Dr S E M PHEKO
END OF TAKE
Mr M T LIKOTSI
Dr S E M PHEKO: Izwe lethu [Our country]! I'm going to speak Greek!
Deputy Speaker, the PAC supports the Division of Revenue Bill. It comes against the background of what the Minister of Finance has called "gloom and panic" by the nation. The Bill provides for equitable division of revenue raised nationally. I will address this matter when I debate the national Budget. For now, I want to say that equitable division should really mean "equitable" in the true sense of justice and equal treatment of all our people.
Our history, since 1994, affirms that the tendency has been to develop areas of our country at the expense of the underdeveloped rural areas and African townships in urban areas. These underdeveloped areas is where the majority of the people of this country live. It is where we find abject poverty, poor health care, severe unemployment, the poorest or no roads … What am I saying now here?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: We don't know. [Laughter.]
Dr S E M PHEKO: … and hardly any infrastructure. Children hardly find a place to play. This is aggravated by the fact that billions of rands are returned to the Treasury unspent. Business Unusual, the phrase coined by the President, must now mean efficiency, more skilled personnel, implementation, urgency and a sense of feeling what the poor feel. They are in a hurry to leave squatter camps, and get jobs, good clinics, education for their children and land that will satisfy their needs. When people are burning in a fire, they will not wait for a long time in that fire without screaming. There is no comfort in a fire – only pain. Thank you.
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE
END OF TAKE
Dr S E M PHEKO
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to make just one point, which I believe is important. In May 2004, during a similar debate, I said the following, and I quote:
Azapo supports the commitment to expand the child support grant and the raising of the upper age limit to 14 years. However, Azapo is concerned about street children …
This is the point I want to make -
… who, because of the circumstances under which they live, are not easily accessible and therefore do not benefit from the present child support grant. We suggest that an appropriate strategy should be devised to make it possible for these children to be brought into the net.
We do support the fact that there has been an increment in respect of the affairs of children. When talking to the Benoni members of the police service about street children, they told me that some of these children are used by criminals to engage in criminal activities, and that because some of these children are still very young, the police are not able to match fingerprints with those of the criminals where break-ins have occurred and, therefore, it is difficult to trace the culprits.
Where it is possible to arrest some of these children, the police have a dilemma as to whether to keep these children in prison or release them in terms of our law. If released, in whose custody should they be placed? The Benoni members of the police service asked me to raise this matter because criminals are now using our street children to commit break-ins and the criminals then take the loot. This is an important matter that this country must deal with.
Azapo has no doubt that when money is allocated to the provinces, it is also meant to cater for this category of people. Unfortunately, the Treasury can only allocate funds. It cannot implement appropriate programmes which are intended for this kind of thing. As I said, I just wanted to raise this particular point. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr L M GREEN
END OF TAKE
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE
Mr L M GREEN: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister and members, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that economic growth is the key to fighting poverty in this country. According to economists, the economic forecast looks less promising than a few months ago when a positive growth rate of 6% was expected, whilst, currently, the projected growth rate is about 4% over the next few years.
The FD feels that the focus on the provinces ought to become more pronounced in the future when it comes to their capacity to transform health, poverty and employment standards. According to the budget allocations, the revenue for provinces will amount to R33 billion over the next three years, with R200 billion allocated for 2008-09, R225 billion for 2009-10 and R246 billion for
2010-11.
Despite the increase in provincial budgets, the capacity to overcome poverty and infrastructure weaknesses remain obstacles slowing progress in some provinces. According to a survey reflected in the District Health Barometer 2006-07, the Eastern Cape has two of the poorest districts in the country, followed by KwaZulu-Natal. KwaZulu-Natal also has the districts with the worst performance rates in testing pregnant women for HIV. Limpopo is overall the poorest province, with almost seven out of ten households living on less than R800 a month. The barometer indicates that in terms of patient care, nurses are either overworked or their skills are not utilised effectively, while certain provinces are underspending on basic health care needs.
The FD is equally concerned about the many qualified financial reports by several departments. An unqualified financial report should be set as a performance indicator for all Ministers and directors-general.
In conclusion, the FD supports the Division of Revenue Bill and we hope to see less state funds wasted on mismanagement and roll-overs. I thank you.
Mr S SIMMONS
END OF TAKE
Mr L M GREEN
Mr S SIMMONS: Madam Deputy Speaker, once again the hon Minister succeeded in presenting to our nation, as mentioned earlier, a
well-balanced Budget. For that, I express my congratulations, and sincere appreciation for the consistent diligence for the benefit of all South Africans. Unfortunately, the hard work done by the hon Minister and his department in respect of the Division of the Revenue Bill more often than not is undone the moment the allocations are made to the various national departments, provinces and municipalities.
The problem of underspending by departments has now been with us for some time and the most common cause has been identified as, among other things, capacity. The hon Minister might recall a member's statement I made last year saying that I believed unemployment equity was at the root of many of these capacity problems.
The hon Minister responded by acknowledging implementation problems and further stated that the law was there and needed to be applied correctly. If a law lends itself to improper implementation, it must be accepted that the law in question has deficiencies that need to be addressed. Therefore, hon Minister, your hard work will only have its true intended effect of a better life for all once this issue is acknowledged and amended. I thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon member D T George will be delivering his maiden speech. [Applause.]
Mr D T GEORGE
END OF TAKE
Mr S SIMMONS
Mr D T GEORGE: Madam Deputy Speaker, 320 million years ago Africa formed part of Gondwanaland, a giant landmass. Gondwanaland itself was linked to the Northern Hemisphere landmass of Laurasia. Collectively these two landmasses formed the supercontinent of Pangaea. Two hundred million years ago the landmasses began to split up, until the northern and southern continents separated.
For approximately 120 million years ago the African continent began its migration away from the Gondwanaland mother mass, and so began the story of South Africa. The story of South Africa is ancient. Our early human ancestors first controlled and made fire in South Africa. South Africa is the cradle of humankind. The story of South Africa is set against the backdrop of magnificent natural beauty, from the lush Bushveld in the north where the Big Five still roam freely across vast tracks of land set aside to conserve and protect them, to the warm Indian Ocean where the tropical fish are as colourful as all the colours of the rainbow, to the fairest Cape in all the world.
The story of South Africa is a work in progress. Although we have made great strides, much of South Africa is poor and underdeveloped. We need to find solutions to ensure that all South Africans can be part of the evolving success story of South Africa. Economic development is one of them. For this, we require suitable education, health care and housing, and a social security net with an environment of sound micro- and macroeconomic policies.
I feel deeply honoured to be here in Parliament at this point of our story, at this point where there is much debate in our society about alternative economic routs that we can follow. There are many of them. I really hope that we can choose one that grows the economy, rather than one that merely seeks to redistribute it into unsustainability.
I would like to thank my family and friends for the very exciting and neverending support for my endeavours, and my colleagues in Parliament for the warm and hearty welcome I have felt.
Finally, on the subject of the Division of Revenue Bill, the reason for dividing revenue is to ensure that finance is available for service delivery. Having money is not the same as spending it efficiently and effectively.
Our financial resources are scarce and should be applied in the most optimal way. I would urge all spheres of government to spend the money allocated to them wisely and to the benefit of all in South Africa. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms L L MABE
END OF TAKE
Mr D T GEORGE
Setswana:
Mme L L MABE: Motlatsa-Sebui, ke rata go tlhalosa gore ...
English:
Before the Division of Revenue Bill comes before this House, the Financial and Fiscal Commission sends recommendations to the National Treasury. The process between the Financial and Fiscal Commission and the government goes through National Treasury, the Budget Council and the Budget Forum, and ends in the Cabinet where all the decisions will be finalised.
Setswana:
Ka kakaretso, FFC e dumalana le dikarabo tse di tlisitsweng ke puso go ya ka ditopo tsa bona. FFC e lebogela gore puso e setse e tsentse mo tirisong bontsi jwa ditshwaelo tsa bona. Ba lebogela le gore ka nako ya porosese ya go aroganya, puso e ne e setse e tsentse mo tirisong gore madi a ye kwa dipusoselegaeng le kwa diporofenseng.
FFC e kgotsofaletse se puso e se dirileng e bile e dumalana le puso fa e re bana ba dikolo tse kgolwane ba fiwe dijo, mme e kopa gore go se simololwe jaanong, go iketlwe pele go fitlha dilo di nna sentle gore e re fa go simololwa, ngwana mongwe le mongwe a bone dijo tse a di kgotsofalelang. Dijo e nne tse di nang le dikotla, e nne tse di tla ba thusang go itekanela.
English:
With regard to learner support materials, the Financial and Fiscal Commission agrees with government that, in the line items of each province, there should be an item indicating how much is going for learner support, how much is going for maintenance and how much is going for road infrastructure. These are issues that we have been raising as the Joint Budget Committee. If it is not clearly outlined, specifically how much is going where, we will not be in a better position to have oversight. So, we welcome those recommendations, or rather what National Treasury has implemented to gazette all those items.
With regard to municipal infrastructure grants, we agree, as does the Financial and Fiscal Commission, and welcome the fact that category C municipalities' allocations will not go to category B municipalities. Instead, where category C municipalities cannot implement, either the national department or the provincial government should take the responsibility of implementing, so that people do not suffer.
Also, when it comes to the integrated human settlement grant of the Department of Housing, the Financial and Fiscal Commission agrees that accreditation should be given to municipalities. As it is given to municipalities, the slow pace of accreditation should be taken on board. Consideration should also be given to the challenges that are faced as a result of the accreditation process, so that all these issues of bottlenecks can be addressed for the people on the ground to benefit.
I also like the fact that both the National Treasury and the Financial and Fiscal Commission have agreed on defining what "homelessness" is, so that not everyone who claims to be homeless will be classified as being homeless.
With regard to the Fifa World Cup budget, the Financial and Fiscal Commission agrees with government that the reasons for all overspending should be given, so that it is not overspending for the sake of overspending. People should not give explanations such as the high cost of living and costly materials, but should give genuine reasons and that should be condoned.
With regard to the phasing-in of the equitable share to local government, the Financial and Fiscal Commission welcomes the fact that allocations for conditional grants are increased. From our side as the Joint Budget Committee a debatable issue is our monitoring on a monthly basis. We will still engage the Financial and Fiscal Commission and National Treasury on the scale of conditional grants in respect of the equitable share.
What I also want to raise is the fact that as Parliament we are concerned that departments always raise the issue of lack of capacity to spend. We are not going to support this, because it's possible that departments can spend more than what they are doing right now. We are also not going to condone wasteful expenditure as a result of lack of planning and lack of capacitating the departments themselves.
With regard to provinces not spending according to national priorities and diverting of funds in the equitable share, we welcome the fact that the National Treasury has indicated that these things must be gazetted so that the public, local government and the schools where this money should go, will know in advance, long before the end of the financial year of both the national government and the provincial government, so that they can start planning and know exactly how much is going to come to them and what to use it for.
Setswana:
Rona re le ANC, re leboga National Treasury fa e tsere tsie ditshweetso tsa rona tsa kokoano ya kwa Polokwane, tse di masisi, tse di tla tokafatsang matshelo a baagi ba Aforika Borwa. Re leboga gore e lemogile fa di le botlhokwa. Se se bontsha gore puso e ke puso ya batho; e reetsa batho.
Gape re tshegetsa karoganyo ya matlotlo a naga mme re kopa gore mafapha a dire ka natla go thusa pusoselegae go dirisa matlotlo sentle, go tlisa ditirelo tse dibotoka.
Kwa bokhutlong, ke rata gore go rre Asmal, fa o setse o tsamaile, ke tlile go go gopola ka ntlha ya matlhagatlhaga a gago.
Rre Asmal o kile a rata go ntshosa ...
English:
When I presented my maiden speech in this Parliament in 2001, I was hardly a month old in this Parliament. At the end of my speech you wanted to lift me up in the air and I was not sure whether I would fall or not, because we are of the same height. So, I was a little scared. I will always remember that you wanted to lift me up and I wasn't sure whether I was safe or not.
Finally, we would like to indicate to the Minister and government that the division of revenue is meant to ensure that all funds go to all levels of government, as per the requirements, as per the priorities. We will continue to monitor for the sake of a better life for all our people. Ke a leboga. [Thank you.]
The MINISTER OF FINANCE
END OF TAKE
Ms L L MABE
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, let me start off by expressing appreciation to all parties for their support for the Division of Revenue Bill.
I started by saying that we have, within this democracy, this wonderful faculty to come together. In respect of the Division of Revenue Bill before the House, all three spheres of government did meet to agree on what should happen.
We have a situation this afternoon, where all parties in this House have agreed to the Division of Revenue Bill. This is the essence of the Budget. This is about the way in which money is allocated. I don't think that we should knock that. I think we should celebrate the fact that on matters relating to the allocation of resources there is as much agreement in this House as we have witnessed. I know of no other legislature anywhere that has the same quality of agreement.
The key issue is: What do we do with that agreement? In the first instance, there should be clarity on how much money we should raise and about how we should divide it. But then the question that I think is on the lips of all parties is: How is that money spent?
I repeat: We need to engage with all parties in this House in evaluating the quality of oversight - I mean, we hope that it is there. I'm saying that in terms of the Public Finance Management Act, we publish section 32 reports. We hope that these get used, but you know, they actually don't get used. Why do these reports not get used on a monthly basis? Why do we have to wait for Scopa, in successive years, when the information is available?
There are some issues that are easier for Parliament to deal with than even for us in the executive or in the National Treasury. Chapter 5 of the Public Finance Management Act is abundantly clear about the responsibility for accounting for resources and planning, and a myriad of other things, by people designated as accounting officers to Parliament. This, I think, is the theatre where much of this should happen; it's a theatre of accountability, and this is what we have to beef up.
I think that, by the same token, we must be clear about trying to empower provincial legislatures. I start from the fundamental premise that you can either have piles and piles of regulations that make it quite impossible to govern, or you can start from the premise that what we do with the Appropriation Bill and the Division of Revenue Bill is to pass law on how money must be spent, and that if you pass law, then you can't break it. And the people to see that you don't break the law are not policemen out there, but Parliament itself.
And so bringing the issues of spending into Parliament, I think, becomes fundamentally important. I said last week that the estimates of national expenditure now give sufficient detail about how the money should be spent. Well, is there sufficient detail if committees feel that the detail is not sufficient? You call a department and say: "Sorry, these are not actually measurable objectives. Take it down a few layers more, because that will allow us to evaluate, on a quarterly basis, whether you are actually performing to plan. We need to know your plan; we need to know that there's a match between your plan and your cash-flow requirements."
It's dealing with issues like these that I think will empower Parliament and perhaps make life a lot more exciting, and give new content to the oversight function. The broad support in this House for the Division of Revenue Bill, I'm saying we must cherish. It's that platform that must allow us to take these issues forward so that together we can say that we are enriching our democracy, because we know that the money that is raised is allocated to where it's needed and that we can, in truth, improve the quality of life of all our people. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill read a second time.
The House adjourned at 16:52.
END OF TAKE