Choice on Termination of Pregnancy A/B & Traditional Health Practitioners Bill: Final Negotiating Mandates [B20-2007]

SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE
18 September 2007
CHOICE ON TERMINATION OF PREGNANCY A/B  & TRADITIONAL HEALTH PRACTITIONERS BILL: FINAL MANDATES

Chairperson: Ms J Masilo (ANC, North West)

Documents handed out:
Northern Cape final mandate on Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill
Limpopo final mandate on Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill
Kwazulu-Natal final mandate on Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill
North West Province final mandate on Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill
Free State final mandate on Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill
Eastern Cape final mandate on Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill
Western Cape final mandate on Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill
Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill [B21-2007]

Eastern Cape final mandate on Traditional Health Practitioners Bill
Free State final mandate on Traditional Health Practitioners Bill
Kwazulu-Natal final mandate on Traditional Health Practitioners Bill
Limpopo final mandate on Traditional Health Practitioners Bill
North West Province final mandate on traditional Health Practitioners Bill
Northern Cape final mandate on Traditional Health Practitioners Bill
Western Cape final mandate on Traditional Health Practitioners Bill
Traditional Health Practitioners Bill [B20-2007]

Audio recording of meeting

SUMMARY
The Committee met to hear final provincial mandates on the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill and the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill. It was indicated that each of the provinces, except for Gauteng, which had not submitted a mandate, had mandated its representatives to vote in favour of the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill. Each of the provinces, except Gauteng, which had not submitted a mandate, also mandated its representatives to vote in favour of the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill. There was some discussion whether, in respect of the latter Bill, changes could be made after submission of the final mandates. It was noted that there would be representation by the National House of Traditional Leaders on the Council, and that the regulations would need to allow for a certain amount of flexibility in order to be workable.

Members considered each clause of each Bill, and resolved to adopt both Bills. The report of the Committee on each of the Bills was also adopted. A statement would be made to the full house on 19 September.
 
MINUTES
Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill
Provincial representatives read out the final mandates on behalf of their provinces.

Eastern Cape
Ms H Lamoela (DA, Western Cape) stated on behalf of the Eastern Cape that the relevant portfolio Committee had conducted public hearings throughout the Province of the Eastern Cape. A mandate was conferred on the representative to vote for the adoption of the Bill.
 
Free State
Mr M Sulliman (ANC, Northern Cape) stated on behalf of the Free State that the authority was conferred to the Free State Delegation to vote for the adoption of the Bill.

Limpopo
Ms H Lamoela (DA, Western Cape) stated on behalf of the Limpopo Legislature that it had adopted the Report of its Portfolio Committee on Health and Social Development, and gave the mandate to its delegate to vote in favour of the Bill. The report of the portfolio committee was attached to the final mandate.

Kwazulu-Natal
Ms Z Ludidi (ANC, Kwazulu-Natal Legislature) stated that the Provincial Standing Committee agreed to mandate the Kwazulu-Natal delegation to support the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill. The delegation was further mandated to consider any additional amendments, provided that these did not alter the essential elements of the Bill, and that consensus was reached by the delegates.

Mpumalanga
Mr B Tolo (ANC, Mpumalanga) stated that Mpumalanga conferred a mandate for the adoption of the Bill.

Northern Cape
Mr Sulliman stated that the provincial Committee had considered the minutes of the Select Committee on Social Services and responses by the Department of Health. The Legislature conferred authority to the permanent delegate to vote in support of the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Bill

North West
Mr Tolo stated on behalf of the North West that the Bill should be drawn in other languages for ease of reference for those in rural areas.  The provincial Portfolio Committee had resolved that the provincial delegate was mandated to support the essence and principle of the Bill.

Western Cape
Ms Lamoela stated that the provincial Standing Committee on Social Development had conferred on the Western Cape’s delegation the authority to support the Bill, subject to the following amendments:

-Clause 2: There must be clear distinction between medical and surgical abortions and this should be done via regulation as a matter of urgency.

The provincial Committee also highlighted that there should be support for nurses who objected to performing termination of pregnancies, as well as for those nurses who did perform termination of pregnancies. There must be more community involvement in this specific area of health. The essence and principle of the Bill were supported.
 
Discussion
The Chair stated that only eight mandates were received but that qualified the committee to continue with the process.

Mr Sulliman stated that other provinces had made additional comments and asked whether the recommendations were going to be entertained.

Mr Tolo stated that if the amendments were new, they could not be considered, since this was a Final Mandate.

Ms Lamoela asked if the recommendations of Limpopo Province were discussed.

Mr Tolo answered that any other recommendations would not be entertained as this was an Amendment Bill, and the final mandate was being considered.

The Chairperson stated that the Bill was not starting afresh.  Eight Provinces had agreed on the Bill.
Those eight provinces had indicated Motions of Desirability.

The Chairperson then went, clause by clause, through the Bill.

All Members agreed to each of the Clauses 1 to 9, as well as to the long title and objects.

The Report of the Committee was read out. Members agreed unanimously to adopt the report.

It was agreed that a statement would be made to the House on Thursday 19 September 2007.

Traditional Health Practitioners Bill
Representatives read out the final mandates of the Provinces, as follows:

Eastern Cape
Mr M Basopu (Chairperson, Eastern Cape Legislature Health Portfolio Committee) stated that his legislature supported the Bill without any amendments.

Free State
Mr T Setona (ANC, Free State) noted that the mandate had conferred authority to the permanent delegate to support the adoption of the Bill.

Kwazulu-Natal
Ms Ludidi stated that the Standing committee on the NCOP met in September and agreed to mandate the Kwazulu-Natal delegation to the NCOP to support the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill.

Limpopo
Ms Lamoela stated on behalf of Limpopo legislature that it was in support of the Bill, but had made certain recommendations. The delegate to the committee was mandated to vote in favour of the Bill.

Mpumalanga
Mr Tolo stated that the permanent delegate was mandated to vote in favour of the Bill.

Northern Cape
Mr Sulliman stated that the Northern Cape supported the Bill.

North West
Mr Tolo stated on behalf of the North West that it was in support of the Bill.

Western Cape
Ms Lamoela stated that the Western Cape supported the Bill, with amendments.

Discussion
The Chair stated that all final mandates had been submitted except Gauteng Province and therefore that the Committee was permitted to proceed with the matter.

Mr Setona queried the procedure with regard to Gauteng and the submission of its final mandate.

Ms N Madlala-Magubane (ANC, Gauteng) stated that there was no mandate from Gauteng.

Mr Sulliman stated that Gauteng would still have authority to vote when their mandate was received.

The Chairperson asked for a statement from the Department of Health.

A Legal Administration Officer, National Department of Health, stated that the Department had met with the House of Traditional Leaders and raised the issue of the inclusion of a traditional healer in the Council. This was agreed to, provided the representative of that House was not also a Traditional Health Practitioner representative.

Mr Setona stated that this was the third Bill and that the submissions were made near the end of the processes. The procedures needed to be made known.

Mr Basopu stated that there was a provision for members of the Council of Traditional Leaders and that they were there to advise more on customs than law.

Ms Nthari Matsau, Deputy Director General, DOH, asked for clarity on the process and if any new recommendations could not be considered at this point in the process.

Mr Tolo made it clear that the Amendment Bill was the one being considered and that since all the final mandates had been submitted no new recommendations could be considered at this time.

Ms Matsau queried about experience of lawyers in traditional health practices. She stated that experienced people in this field could not easily be found. 

Mr Setona stated that it was a semantic issue and could be informed by the jurisprudence, which would give due recognition to practices.

Ms Matsau stated that there might need to be some flexibility in the regulations, although she was aware of the need for consistency..

Mr M Ncolo, State Law Advisor, agreed that there must be some flexibility so that the regulations could be implemented effectively.  

The Chairperson then read through the clauses of the Bill. Members approved each of the clauses 1 to 52.

The Chairperson then read out the Report of the Committee, which was approved unanimously.

The NCOP Select committee on Social Services would make a statement to the House on Thursday, 19 September 2007.

The meeting was adjourned.