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SAFETY AND SECURITY PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
28 MARCH 2007
SOUTH AFRICAN POLICE SERVICE BUDGET VOTE BRIEFING
Chairperson: Ms M Sotyu (ANC)
Documents handed out
Vote 23: Safety and Security, Briefing to Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security: Part1 & Part2
Vote 23: Safety and Security
South African Police Services briefed the Committee on the allocations and strategic overview for the period 2007/08 and 2009/10. He set out the main points of the strategy for 2005 to 2010. Key initiatives included the national crime combating strategy, the firearms strategy, crimes against women and children, prevention of attacks on police officials, prevention of corruption and fraud, risk management, and service delivery improvement programme. He highlighted the main achievements for 2006/07. The budget was set out, and was compared from 2003 to 2010. There was an average annual nominal growth of 11.5%. The strong growth mainly represented the employment of large numbers of personnel, investment in capital assets and improvements of conditions of service. For 2007/08 there was an adjusted baseline allocation of R35.9 billion, rising to R43.5 billion by 2010. Detailed expenditure trends by programme were tabled and analysed. The allocation for 2010 World Cup Soccer was described. The training provision was identified and broken down. Finally there was a note of the main priorities for capacity building in the Department.
Members asked for specific indications of how the matters reported upon contributed to the prevention of crime, the information flow at the international airports in South Africa, whether there could be interventions to recover stolen cars, the numbers of bulletproof vests still required, and the increase for Protection Services. Further questions related to the 2010 World Cup budget, interventions against smuggling, the projects under social crime prevention, implementation of the radio station, the Community Policing Forum, the shortage of manpower, and the use of security guards at police stations. Members also enquired about the salary upgrade, the upgrading of border posts, new recruits in detective services, and language translators for the World Cup in 2010.
South African Police Service (SAPS) Briefing
Mr Jackie Selebi, National Commissioner, SAPS, briefed the Committee on the allocations and strategic overview for the period 2007/08 and 2009/10. He set out the main points of the strategy plan for 2005 to 2010 and noted the key initiatives and deliverables for each of the programmes, being Administration, Visible Policing, Detective Services, Crime Intelligence and Protection and Security Services. The key initiatives included the national crime combating strategy, the firearms strategy, crimes against women and children, prevention of attacks on police officials, prevention of corruption and fraud, risk management, and service delivery improvement programme. He highlighted the main achievements for 2006/07, and the spending policy directives that had been given by the State of the Nation Address and the Minister of Finance. The objectives accomplished up to March 2007 included a performance based remuneration dispensation and pay progressions. 163 000 personnel were in place, as against a target of 163 060. The vehicle fleet had been improved and bulletproof vests had been purchased. There had been establishment of the Division for Protection and Security Services, the capital works allocation was spent, there was modernization and expansion of equipment, the new reservist systems was introduced and border security was expanded.
The budget was set out, and was compared from 2003 to 2010. There was an average annual nominal growth of 11.5%. The strong growth mainly represented the employment of large numbers of personnel, investment in capital assets and improvements of conditions of service. For 2007/08 there was an adjusted baseline allocation of R35.9 billion, rising to R43.5 billion by 2010.
Detailed expenditure trends by programme were tabled and analysed. The allocation for 2010 World Cup Soccer was described. The training provision was identified and broken down. Finally there was a note of the main priorities for capacity building in the Department.
Mr S Booi (ANC) asked Mr Jackie Selebi (National Commissioner, SAPS) what SAPS was doing to fight crime. He asked how all the matters reported upon contributed to the prevention of crime.
Mr Selebi answered that crime prevention was a major project that SAPS would be embarking on. He also mentioned that in the State of the Nation Address the President had pointed out the importance of crime prevention. Many of the additional personnel who had been appointed, the use of reservists and the implementation of the Automated Vehicle Location System (AVLS) would be put to use in crime prevention.
Mr Booi asked how SAPS was going to control the flow in and out of information at OR Tambo International Airport.
Mr Selebi said that OR Tambo International Airport was a national key point, which was in the hands of SAPS.
Ms D Kohler-Barnard (DA) said that the number of cars stolen was considerably higher than the number recovered. She asked whether there was anything that could be done to raise the number of cars recovered.
Commissioner Johannes de Beer, Divisional Commissioner, SAPS, agreed that the number of vehicles recovered was low. He explained that in some cases cars ended up in chop shops, were simply stripped for parts or even left the country and could not be recovered.
Commissioner Selebi said that static roadblocks had been put in place at borders to try to stop stolen vehicles from leaving the country, as it was very difficult to recover them once they had left.
Ms Kohler-Barnard wondered if the projected figure SAPS had tabled for the recovery of stolen firearms was realistic.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked how many bulletproof vests were still needed.
Commissioner Selebi pointed out that not all SAPS employees needed bulletproof vests. As new staff were employed new vests would be purchased. He also said that the individuals each kept their own outer cover but the inner, which was the most expensive part, was shared with another person.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked why policeman still needed safes.
Commissioner Selebi pointed out that only junior staff needed safes as the more senior ones were able to afford their own
Ms Kohler-Barnard pointed out that VIP Protection Services received an increase but were still servicing the same amount of clients. She wanted to know why the increase was awarded.
Commissioner Selebi said that the number of VIPs was always increasing. SAPS did not have any control over the people to whom this service was provided as the protection was at the request of the government.
Ms Kohler-Barnard asked if the 2009/10 budget included the post 2010 World Cup budget, and asked if the equipment would be reused.
Commissioner Andre Pruis, Deputy National Commissioner, SAPS, answered that it did not include the post 2010 budget. It did however include the funds to take down structures that had been put up specifically for the World Cup.
Mr S Mahote (ANC) asked what specific interventions would be put in place to end smuggling at border posts.
Mr P Groenewald (FFP) asked the number of police stations in which sector policing was fully implemented.
Mr F Maserumule (ANC) asked why it was difficult for APS to provide accurate numbers of police involved in misconduct, how many illegal arms had been seized, the number of law suits pending and the number of officers killed on duty.
Mr Selebi said that the answers to all these questions could be obtained from the SAPS Annual Report.
Ms A Van Wyk (ANC) said that in his State of the Nation Address the President referred to social development as applicable to law enforcement. She asked where in the budget SAPS had included social crime prevention and if there were any projects it could mention.
Commissioner Selebi said that there was a large unit lead by the Deputy Minister of Safety and Security, Ms Susan Shabangu, that was dealing with social crime prevention. This unit undertook many initiatives, but he could not name each and every one of them off hand. Some of the projects could be named, and these included a project whereby street children were trained in motor works, and then went on to repair vehicles for SAPS, or were trained in computer learnerships, using computers donated by SAPS. Some children were taught to read and write. SAPS also ran a sport programme with street children at night to deter them from committing crimes. Social crime prevention was included in the crime prevention budget.
Mr Pruis added that SAPS’s approach to social crime was now focusing more on the deterrence of such crime, rather than the reactive approach that had been used in the past. More expenditure was being put towards this issue.
Ms Van Wyk asked why the Gauteng Radio Network System was not yet completed as it was meant to be finished by the end of 2006.
Mr Selebi said that the delay in the implementation of the radio system was as a result of some areas not having electricity.
Ms Van Wyk asked what the ratio of civilians to uniformed staff was?
Commissioner Mala Singh, Deputy National Commissioner, SAPS said SAPS was working towards having a ratio of civilian to uniformed staff of 70 – 30.
Mr V Ndlovu (IFP) asked what the structural budget was for the Community Policing Forum (CPF).
Commissioner Selebi said that the CPF was no longer operating.
Mr l Diale (ANC) pointed out that there was a shortage of manpower at satellite offices. He asked when the necessary manpower would be deployed and when the building of police stations would be hastened.
Mr Selebi acknowledged that the shortage of manpower was a problem. The restructuring of offices had been set as a priority on 169 stations.
Mr M Moatshe (ANC) asked if the police stations that were guarded by private security companies were budgeted for in this budget, and, if so, where the figure could be found.
Mr Selebi emphasised that no police stations were guarded by security guards. They were only there for access control purposes. He felt that it was more efficient to out-source this duty than to hire policemen.
Mr S Mahote (ANC) asked why new shooting ranges were needed, and whether there had been any available for upgrade. She also enquired why there were not shooting ranges in every province.
Mr Selebi answered that there were few shooting ranges available. SAPS wanted to ensure that all new training colleges had ranges on site or nearby.
Ms Kohler-Barnard said the Finance Minister set aside R1 billion to upgrade the salaries of members of the SAPS. She asked why the R1 billion was not reflected in the budge, and felt that by increasing the salaries by 6% before negotiations the SAPS was being incautious, as it would be faced with a problem if the Unions demanded an increase.
Commissioner Selebi said that the National Treasury had set the increase at 6%. If indeed it was negotiated upward, then the National Treasury would have to provide the additional amount.
Ms Van Wyk asked who was responsible for the upgrading of border posts as they were in very bad condition.
Commissioner Selebi replied that Department of Public Works was responsible for the upkeep of border posts.
Ms Van Wyk said that many new recruits were going to the Visible Policing programme but wondered why they were not rather being placed in detective services, which, as previously indicated by SAPS, was a major concern.
Commissioner Selebi confirmed that 10% of new recruits would be going to the detective services.
Ms Van Wyk asked if police support, such as psychologists and social workers were also budgeted for.
Commissioner Selebi said that there were no psychologists employed by SAPS, as these posts were all outsourced. There had been an increase in the amount that PolMed would pay for specialised therapy.
Mr Booi pointed out that during the World Cup there would be many foreigners with whom SAPS must deal, and asked how the language barriers would be overcome.
Commissioner Selebi explained that there were translators available from the Department of Arts and Culture for these kinds of situations.
The meeting adjourned.
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