Council for Scientific and Industrial Research 2007/08 Budget and Strategic Plan: briefing
Science, Technology and Innovation
13 March 2007
Meeting Summary
A summary of this committee meeting is not yet available.
Meeting report
SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
13 March 2007
COUNCIL FOR SCIENTIFIC AND INDUSTRIAL RESEARCH 2007/08 BUDGET AND STRATEGIC
PLAN: BRIEFING
Chairperson: Mr E Ngcobo
(ANC)
Documents handed out:
CSIR Corporate Plan
Financial years 2007/8 to 2009/10: Executive Summary
CSIR Planning 2007/8 to 2009/10
presentation
SUMMARY
The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research presented their strategic
plan and budget for the 2007/08 financial year as well as a longer term
strategy over the next 3-20 years. The Council has entered a growth phase and aim
to strengthen their human capital, shift the research agenda and be financially
sustainable by growing public sector, private sector and other funding. The
Committee asked questions about the application of the Council’s innovations
and discoveries especially with regard to its benefit to the public. They also
asked questions about their intentions for the 2010 World Cup and how they
could be a part of solving problems in South Africa.
MINUTES
Introduction
The Chairperson welcomed the Deputy Minister of Science and Technology, Mr
Derek Hanekom.
Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) Presentation
Dr Sibusiso Sibisi
(President and Chief Executive Officer (CEO)) presented the intentions and
plans of the CSIR for the next year, and where applicable, the next 3 years. He
explained their mandate and gave examples of projects from their transformation
process named ‘CSIR: Beyond 60’. The major strategic objectives comprised:
strengthening human capital, shifting the research agenda and being financially
sustainable. The mandate of the CSIR has remained the same. A new area of
activity is in nanotechnology. There are also technological innovations like
rapid response to fires using satellite images, which is especially important
for Eskom to identify threats to power lines. This
project also uses sms technology. Light and advanced
metals are a major project for aerospace and automotive research. They
currently collaborate with Boeing on light metals. There are other innovations
like the mesh network to provide affordable and wireless communication in
diverse areas. This is in association with the Meraka
Institute. Awarenet is another project for the
surveillance of the country’s territorial waters. They are working on special
vehicles for risk reduction in cash in transit heists.
The CSIR wanted to make sure that South Africa becomes an international player.
Its projects were not only about indulging in curiosity. They have a
three-phase long-term plan. The first, which is complete, is the Transformation
phase, and took 18-36 months. The second is the Growth phase which could take
from 5 to 15 years. They are at the start of this phase. The third is the
Maturing phase which will last about 3 years. Their priority is to contribute
to the national goal of fulfilling their mandate with financial sustainability
and good governance. The three-year strategic intent is to strengthen human
capital, especially with a strong SET base. He gave examples of projects that
illustrate their progress. The total investment for 2007/08 is R149 million.
This is to recapitalise scientific infrastructure. The national strategies and
research agenda cover a variety of areas. He presented the intellectual
property portfolio over previous years and the targets for 2007/08. The income
sources have grown in the last 10 years, especially in the public sector. The
private sector funding has decreased, and they planned to increase income from
all sectors.
Discussion
Mr I Blanche (DA) said that global warming was a “hot” debate. What role will
the CSIR play in this, are they active in it?
Mr P J Nefolovhodwe (AZAPO) asked what the reasons
for private sector funding decline were. With regards to the application of
their research results, where is it applied most in our society? Are there gaps
in the application? He had personally used the mosquito candle mentioned in the
presentation and was satisfied with its efficacy.
Mr S N Nxumalo (ANC) asked about the mesh network and
for an elaboration on the improvement it could make to the quality of life and
where it had been roll out. He also asked where the ‘Amadrum’
had been rolled out as this would be a good solution in the fight against
cholera. He also asked if the CSIR was 2010 ready, asking what their role would
be.
Prof I J Mohamed (ANC) said that previously there had been a problem with fires
in grain silos where heat would build up and the contents spontaneously
combusted. He had heard that there was nothing that could be done about the
problem but he presumed that the problem had been resolved since. With regard
to cash-in-transit heists, media reports gave the impression that the vehicles
were not successful in protecting the contents. Were the new versions better?
In the past, the CSIR had one building at Wits University and they now have
practically the whole of Pretoria. They have certainly grown; can they manage
all of it? In India there is also a CSIR. He was not sure if the two are
related. The Indian CSIR was involved in a controversial programme to
reproduced vehicles and structures for different uses. Are they not concerned
with the link in name? When Dr Sibisi referred to
‘black staff’ it lumps all ethnic groups together and can cause unhappiness in
certain groups especially with coloured people who feel continually sidelined.
He related a story of a relative seeking employment in Soweto who was given a
barrage of excuses before being told that they wanted a black person. He has
noted that the railway is used far less than road in current years. Why have
they been sidelined? He was also concerned with mining and has been underground
and seen a problem with crumbling pillars. Has this problem been solved? The
parliamentary grant had also been increased in the 20006/07 financial year; he
was happy about this and suggested that this should be kept up.
Mr M P Bhengu (IFP) thanked the CSIR for its
presentation. As the Committee has the function of oversight, it must have more
details of the budget. Did they have a surplus for the last year? They did not
say much about the nature of their Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) initiative
except that level 4 had been reached. Could they expand on this?
Mr S L Dithebe (ANC) referred to the ICT mapping
which showed that only 12% of households in South Africa have a PC.
Furthermore, in areas like Makado in the Limpopo province, only 2% of households have a PC. In light
of the digital doorway initiative they had to do something and he was not sure
the CSIR is the right vehicle. Are they satisfied that they are the right
vehicle for this?
Dr Sibisi said with to regard global warming they are
very active and have been for a while. They recently got a researcher from
Princeton to do research in this area. He is especially looking at paleo-data over a long time period especially at ocean currents.
He was sure that the recent tax incentives will increase investment from the
private sector but it will take time. The application of the results is
difficult as they do not have the capacity to cover everywhere. They apply the
results to areas they think are important. For example, energy research is
important but they have no capacity to do it. They do not want to be spread too
thinly. They want people to have access to innovations even if they cannot pay
for them directly. For instance, clean water has benefits other than direct
financial gain. Most funding is from the public sector and as such, this should
benefit the public the most. The roll out of innovations is only on a small
scale to demonstrate the principle. They have to partner with implementation
experts like MTN and meshnet if they want to do a
full roll out. They would be spread too thinly if they did roll out as well as
finding solutions. Amadrum is also partnered with
TWIB (Technology for Women In Business). He thought
that the fire in silos problem had been solved but commented that had the
question been: ‘is your technology adequate to deal with such a problem, the
answer would be positive. There just needs to be a heat gradient for the
satellite to pick it up. The cash in transit vehicles cannot just be rolled
out. It is a challenge. The industry tries to minimise the costs and so they
have not got as much interest as they would like.
The CSIR has been bigger at other times over the last 60 years. They spawned
the National Research Foundation (NRF) and the Medical Research Council (MRC)
and have other areas of activity, e.g. MWEB started at the CSIR. It is
healthiest to have targets, grow, mature and then start again. There will
always be an ebb and flow. There may be the addition of defence force research.
The CSIR organisations all used to be in Commonwealth countries. Having helped
to set up the CSIR in India and Australia, the central model is then abandoned.
It is not important in developed countries. In the UK, the Minister said they
keep a close watch on the 99% of things they do not work on so that they are
strategically aligned to act when they need to.
The use of the term ‘black scientists’ refers to all non-whites and there was
no intention to draw a line between ethnic groups. Mine safety is a project at
the CSIR though they have not dealt with crumbling pillars specifically. They
are working on seismic activity sensors. The logistics survey describes the
nature of the problem, not how to overcome it. Transnet
uses this and international data in their plans. They are happy that the
Parliamentary grant has been increased and with the rate at which the grant has
been increased so that the organisation can absorb and use it.
Surplus money and financial management will be dealt with at the end of the
financial year where they detail the numbers. They are able to retain the
surplus. The question of BEE is a good one and it is comprised of three things:
the core of science and the demographic profile, the output of work and the
people it affects. He wanted the CSIR people to cohort in commercial projects,
and the procurement processes. They do not deal with large tenders as equipment
usually has to be imported but they are active on a small scale where they can.
The proportion of royalties that go to scientists cannot be controlled by BEE
guidelines, but people can be given the opportunity. The Mesh network still
needs further work. Even technology that seems like a problem, like MXit, can be used positively.
Mr Hoffman Maree (Group Executive: Operations, CSIR)
added that the private sector income decline had manifold reasons like the cost
of the research and outdated equipment forcing the private sector to turn
international. The Technology and Human Resources for Industry Programme
(THRIP) programme encourages companies to use students who are cheaper. Some
international companies took over local companies. They can change it and have
projected a modest increase. They are looking to more collaboration and focus
on a few areas. There have been lots of visits from local and international
companies to the CSIR especially in the field of light metals and biosciences.
They want to see a more collective approach for South Africa to work with the
international sector. An example is the titanium industry in South Africa with
the Department of Minerals and Energy (DME), Department of Science and
Technology (DST) and others. They want to arrest the decline in funding and
grow. The distinction between local and international is becoming blurred. They
do not only want to provide services. With regard to being 2010 ready, they
have looked at what is needed and have been a little involved especially in
specialised services but not really in new research. There is
a large number of demonstration projects like hydrogen buses that will run
during 2010 to practice and showcase such innovations. There will also be
studies to measure people and logistics. The World Cup provides a real life
large laboratory.
Dr Dave Walwyn (Group Manager: Research and
Development) added that they are busy discussing projects with the DST,
especially demonstrations. It would be a good question to ask in a few years
time. This is in addition to the Square Kilometre Array (SKA) and other things
the country is doing.
The Chairperson said that the DST recently presented their strategic plan and
it would be good to align it with CSIR. They heard no follow up on the age of
innovation plan that was previously presented. They were excited about it but
now hear nothing. The mission statement should fit with the DST. Does the
number of degrees in the Nanotechnology department represent employees or
bursaries? The annual logistics survey is important: does it deal with asset
management as there is a gap in Science and Technology? The Committee has
always been outspoken about social impact interventions. The CSIR does more
research but there can be a big impact, for example with the digital doorway.
How far are they with the mobile autonomous intelligence systems and with
cancer research? He saw a presentation from a Prof de Jager
about a discovery in the Milky Way which will improve fridges. It is big
science impacting everyday life. How far are they on the Intellectual Property
issue? The Japanese wanted to open a centre for IP systems, have they followed
up on this? Can they get an update on aerospace engineering and Israeli air
cars?
Mr P D N Maloyi (ANC) said that he saw a sign at the
CSIR last year that said ‘Innovation hub’, how does this differ from the
Knowledge Commons? They had a presentation about skills shortages and it was
very concerning. Some projects in the future will have to be delayed or
cancelled. What strategy does the CSIR have to deal with this? Will they ever
have a ‘Nelson Mandela Car’ that is made completely in South Africa or will
they always have to rely on international input?
Dr Sibisi said that their collaboration with the DST
is so tight that they did not feel that they needed to outline the relationship
each time. Two years ago they presented aspects that needed to be changed or
implemented. The turn over of people can be good. People must have a finite
contract and these were the principles they discussed, especially with agility
and critical thinking.
The Chairperson interjected that it was important to remind the Committee of
the relationship since the Committee membership keeps changing.
Dr Sibisi said that he was happy to conduct a
separate briefing on the history of the CSIR. The Nanogroup
degrees are studentships but not necessarily permanent positions. The logistics
survey does not intend to be an asset management tool.
The Chairperson said that the University of Pretoria identified it as one of
the big problems and as such the CSIR should think about it.
Mr Maree said that the CSIR did design much of the
methodology for asset management but then stepped away from it.
The Chairperson suggested they should return to it.
Dr Sibisi said that they should discuss what their
role should be. They did not do much cancer research per se, rather the
mechanisms for killing cells.
Dr Walwyn clarified that they are in initial
preclinical studies. The efficacy had been shown in vivo in animals but it is
still very early days. The Monitoring and Information System (MAIS) is still
new and the project only starts on 1 April. They are doing some robotics, it is
a big field internationally and they are coming in on a low level. They want to
look at how to use open source technology.
Dr Sibisi explained that it is a departure from
classic robotics to include artificial vision. It is a big challenge. He
thought that Japan had been violating the lithium battery patent which may be a
source of big income in the future. The intellectual property is another
discussion altogether. The focus on aerospace is on air vehicles and is not
very cutting edge generally. The light materials are more important. The air
car could be important for surveillance for 2010 and similar events. The
Innovation hub is a science park for start up enterprises and is primarily to
support companies. Knowledge commons are fragmented areas for social and
intellectual interaction. With regards to the skills shortage, the pass rate in
the previous year for higher grade maths was only 5%. He was not sure the CSIR
should put their money into solving this; they are more about providing a space
for scientists and encouraging young people to enter science. A South African
car would be good but it would also be good to have a nutrient rich sorghum.
The problem is making a specific product vs. a general application. There must
be some distinction and some things must be left in the industrial domain. For
example, the car companies would be the best ones to make a car.
The meeting was adjourned.
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