A summary of this committee meeting is not yet available.
SAFETY AND SECURITY PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
29 March 2006
SOUTH AFRICAN POLICE SERVICES AND SECRETARIAT FOR SAFETY AND SECURITY 2006/07 BUDGETS: BRIEFINGS
Chairperson: Ms M Sotyu (ANC)
Documents handed out
Secretariat for Safety and Security Presentation on 2006/7 Budget
Secretariat for Safety and Security expenditure per programme item
The Chair commenced the meeting by highlighting the concerns raised by the Committee during its meeting with the South African Police Services in 2005, which required a response. The Chair and the National Commissioner of Police engaged in a heated discussion as to whether the Police Services had in fact provided timeous written responses to those concerns. The Police Services’ briefing then dealt with those outstanding matters, provided an overview of its 2005-2010 strategic plan and provided figures and facts on its Medium Term Expenditure Framework allocation. During the discussion Members sought clarity on the allocation for reservists and their number of working hours, the progress made in ordering bulletproof vests, the shifting of capital works responsibilities from the Department of Public Works and the Police Services’ plans to guard against a possible unlawful infiltration of its radio frequency.
Clarity was sought on the steps taken to resolve the huge vacancies in the detective services unit, the criminal record centre and the forensics laboratories, the spending of R38, 9 million on medical care for detainees in private hospitals, whether the police or the Department of Justice was responsible for the witness protection programme and the measures taken to address inventory control and vehicle control management. The police was also asked to explain whether it would reach its visible policing target for 2006/07 and whether it and the South African National Defence Force had reached any agreement on the migration of personnel to the police for borderline security operations.
The Secretariat for Safety and Security briefed the Committee on its priorities for 2006/07, its specific programmes and projects for 2006/07, the total budget costs for projects and personnel expenditure and a detailed breakdown of its budget per programme and project. During the discussion Members asked whether the Secretariat had the necessary personnel capacity to conduct its operations as there were many vacancies, sought a breakdown of the R6 million allocation for personnel costs and whether the Secretariat had resolved overlapping functions with the Independent Complaints Directorate.
Introduction by Chairperson
The Chair highlighted the points that were raised by the Committee during its meeting with the South African Police Services (SAPS) last year, which the SAPS were expected to touch on before it commenced its presentation. The issues raised included the:
(a) problem in delaying the Firearms Control Act and whether the Department of Safety and Security (DSS) had the necessary capacity to implement that Act. She stated that the Committee had received a response to the matter which would be provided to Members;
(b) issue of bulletproof vests. She stated that the Committee had received a response to the matter which would be provided to Members, but the response was not satisfactory;
(c) problem with lack of Internet access at all police stations, to which the SAPS had not yet responded;
(d) lack of payment of reservists, to which the SAPS had not yet responded. She stated that it appeared that today’s presentation would deal with it;
(e) rural policing issues, which needed a response;
(f) service level agreement concluded with the State Information Technology Agency (SITA), which needed a response;
(g) concerns raised by the SAPS with certain issues raised by the SITA in the presentation they delivered to this Committee in 2005, and the SAPS report on the matter was still outstanding;
(h) private security measures provided at police stations. She stated that the Committee had received a response to the matter which would be provided to Members; and
(i) the empowerment of management structures at police station level, to which the SAPS had replied telephonically and the response would be made available to Members.
National Police Commissioner J Selebi stated that he believed the SAPS had in fact forwarded answers to all the questions posed by the Committee during its meeting in 2005. In particular, the response to the SITA report was forward to the Committee on 23 March 2005. He suggested that there appeared to be a communication problem because the SAPS had in fact submitted answers to all the questions posed. The SAPS even had the courier service receipts as evidence that all the responses had been sent.
The Chair assured the SAPS that the Committee did not have the SAPS response to the SITA issue. She had received an information bundle from the Ministry during the previous week, and even then it was indicated that the SAPS report on the SITA matter was not included. This matter needed to be resolved.
National Commissioner Selebi agreed that the matter needed to be dealt with because he had written proof that the report was sent to the Committee, but he could not explain how it was that it did not actually arrive at the Committee. He proceeded to hold up the letter as proof, and reiterated that the SAPS always responded on time.
The Chair stated that she did not expect the SAPS to dwell too much on the presentation, as it had provided Members with copies two weeks ago. Members have thus had sufficient time to familiarise themselves with it.
Presentation by South African Police Services
Divisional Commissioner S Schutte informed Members that the presentation would deal primarily with the outstanding matters raised by the Committee during the 2005 meeting, the 2005-2010 strategic overview and figures and facts on the SAPS Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) allocation.
Outstanding matters raised by Committee
As explained by National Commissioner Selebi, the SAPS had already sent responses to all the questions posed. He requested that the Committee in future specifically indicate the matters that they required further information on, otherwise it would be regarded as a concern that the SAPS must work on throughout the year.
The Chair agreed that the presentation covered the outstanding questions, and thanked the SAPS for the information.
Strategic overview 2005 to 2010
Divisional Commissioner Schutte stated that, with regard to year-end reporting for the 2005/06 financial year, the SAPS had not yet audited everything, because the financial year only ended on Friday. One of the SAPS’ primary spending policy directions in 2005\06 was the massive capacity building drive, which resulted in an increase in infrastructure, vehicles and personnel etc. The preliminary outcomes indicated that the 2005\06 objectives in terms of personnel, vehicles, equipment, the establishment of a protection and security services division and capital expenditure items would be accomplished. He expressed his confidence that the SAPS would in fact achieve all its objectives by financial year-end.
He listed the strategic priorities, performance measures and key initiatives and deliverables per programme for 2005 to 2010.
A Member noted that this in depth information provided in the presentation was not included in the documentation provided to Members
Divisional Commissioner Schutte replied that it was merely additional information to make the presentation more comprehensive.
Ms A Van Wyk (ANC) stated that copies were needed as soon as possible. She urged the SAPS to automatically provide this information along with all the other information when it made future presentations.
National Commissioner Selebi expressed his concern at the confusion. He stated that the SAPS had received a letter on the previous Friday from the Committee with guidelines on the information required, which the SAPS had followed closely in compiling the presentation.
The Chair noted that communication between the Committee and the SAPS must be improved.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte continued with the presentation and outlined the:
- updated human resources allocation for each financial year over the MTEF;
- training provided in terms of the SAPS’ Training Provisioning Plan;
- visible policing programme;
- deterrence of activities at the Republic’s borderlines;
- general crime investigation activities;
- specialised crime investigation programme;
- fingerprints modification;
- protection and security services and its outputs; and the
- key strategic initiatives.
Figures and facts on MTEF allocation
Divisional Commissioner Schutte outlined:
- defining moments in the budget process;
- appending policy directions for the 2006/7 financial year;
- linkages between programmes and spending priorities;
- programmes or items in the 2006 Estimates of National Expenditure;
- payment items
- growth in the SAPS budget from 2003/4 to 2008/9 financial years;
- new budgetary allocations;
- year-on-year increases in the budget programmes; and
- expenditure trends per programme.
He provided the following information:
- the items needed to adequately perform those programmes,
- the year-to-year increase per programme;
- the SAPS budget for compensation of its members and the categories of that expenditure;
- the SAPS’ enlistment programme targets from 2002 to 2009;
- the ratio of SAPS officers to individual citizens;
- the allocation for training programmes over the MTEF;
- allocations for vehicles, borderline security, reservists, Integrated Justice System (IJS) related expenditure, IT and capital works over the MTEF;
- the principles of the devolvement of the budgets from the Department of Public Works;
- a multi-year overview of the SAPS’ capacity building programme; and
- provincial operation allocations.
Mr V Ndlovu (IFP) sought clarity on the actual numbers of SAPS members that would benefit from the training programmes.
Deputy National Commissioner V Singh replied that the budgeting for its training programmes was informed by its workplace skills plan, which identified all the training needs for every SAPS member. Training could be provided on an individual needs basis in several aspects. The practice was thus not to quantify the precise numbers of individuals that would benefit from the training, but instead to express it as a percentage of total SAPS members.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte added that all new enlistments were trained.
Mr Ndlovu noted that R60 million had been allocated for reservists in the 2006/07 financial year, yet SAPS had not yet finalised the amount of hours that they would have to work. He was not sure how the SAPS was able to arrive at the R60 million allocation if it did not yet know how many hours they would have to work.
Deputy National Commissioner L Pruis responded that the SAPS did in fact know how many reservists it could call up. However the new policy on reservists will introduce a new payment plan for reservists, which was welcomed because it allowed the SAPS to then allocate more hours to them. The SAPS already had 21 000 reservists on its books and paid them R230 a day. The provincial structures have already been informed of the number of hours the reservists were expected to work. Most of the 21 000 fell in the A category, which meant that they were totally functionally trained, and most worked in the community centres. The second category was the support reservists, who were more specialised. The final category was the rural and urban reservists. He stated that the payment of R230 would change under the new dispensation, as payment structure would be modelled on the rank of the reservist. There were also legal implications that the SAPS must consider, which did not apply to the reservists employed by the South African National Defence Force (SANDF). He stated that up to 2009, the SAPS would like to establish 100 000 reservists.
The Chair stated that this was important information for the Committee in discharging its oversight mandate. Members could now convey this information to the provincial structures when they reported back during the constituency week.
Rev K Moeshoe (ACDP) sought clarity on the progress made in ordering the bulletproof vests. He also asked the SAPS to explain the percentage of total SAPS members that would have the vests, and whether any progress had been made on the bulletproof vests for female SAPS members.
Commissioner Sonto replied that bulletproof vests had been purchased for all SAPS members. In the current financial year 11 000 vests had been purchased. A total of 87 892 SAPS members now had vests, and of that total 70% used them as part and parcel of their allotted equipment. Tenders have already been put out for the vests for female officers.
The Chair stated the SAPS informed Members at the 2005 meeting that it was experiencing problems with the manufacturers of the vests, and asked whether those problems had since been resolved.
National Commissioner Selebi explained that the problem had not been completely resolved, but the SAPS had devised means to get around the problem. The problem was that there was not a single manufacturer that would be able to make the tender targets. The SAPS thus decided to depart from the protocol of the past and now divided the total tender amount amongst a number of suppliers. He was pleased to report that the vests were now being supplied at a much faster rate than before. It was however not the most ideal situation because it involved lengthy negotiations with each supplier to ensure they each charged the same price. The process had not yet been completed because of the volumes of vests sought.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte indicated that vests had been ordered to the tune of R38 million.
Rev Moeshoe stated that the presentation indicated allocations for capital works programmes and property leases, yet the SAPS indicated that the Department of Public Works was responsible for those functions. He stated that there appeared to be a disjuncture.
Commissioner Sonto responded that the leasing was still done by the Department of Public Works, who charged the SAPS a nominal fee to do the job.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte added that a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) would be concluded with the National Treasury, who agreed to shift the funds to the SAPS. The Department of Public Works will however still be performing that function on behalf of the SAPS. The Department of Public Works thus acted as SAPS’ agent in the property leasing exercise, but it was the SAPS that were accountable.
Rev Moeshoe noted that the SAPS would be maintaining and operating landing strips, and sought clarity on which strips exactly were being referred to.
Deputy National Commissioner Pruis replied that the SAPS would not be operating all landing strips within the country, but only those along the borderline of the Republic that it would use for its aircraft.
Mr K Khumalo (ANC) stated that the presentation indicated that the total allocation for the SAPS’ administration programme decreased from R9, 3 billion to R8 billion, with the corporate services component accounting for 95% of the total allocation. He asked the SAPS to explain the extent of the decreasing allocation that would cater for historically disadvantaged individuals within the SAPS structure.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte replied that the R9.3 billion included all SAPS stores and inventory items, the IT and all medical support for every SAPS member, which amounted to nearly R3 billion. He explained that some items in the different programmes could be grouped together, but were then placed under the administration programme as it was under that programme that they were budgeted originally. It was thus an item-programme combination, and for that reason there would be an increase in the administration programme because the property management environment of all buildings fell under administration, even though the physical item was a police station. He explained that the administration programme followed a pro forma structure that applied to each government department, and was devised by National Treasury.
Mr Khumalo expressed concern at the statement that items under different programmes were grouped together, as it created the possibility of ‘double counting’. Secondly, he questioned the security of the SAPS’ radio frequency spectrum. He noticed that the first persons at the scene of a vehicle accident were the tow truck operators, which meant that they must have infiltrated the SAPS’ radio frequency. If that was the case, he suggested organised crime would experience little difficulty in doing the same.
Deputy National Commissioner Pruis responded that the securing of its radio frequency was one of its priorities, and it would be needed by the 2010 Soccer World Cup. An upgrade of the current system would put the SAPS in a good position to establish a communications system by 2009 already. Persons who were in unlawful possession of police radios were arrested. It must however be borne in mind that there were currently so many different communication systems that could be used, such as cellphones and sms that it was not only police radios that could be used to determine the location of a vehicle accident.
Mr Khumalo explained that he was referring specifically to a possible breach of security of the SAPS radio frequency, and it must be upgraded to prevent unlawful infiltration.
National Commissioner Selebi replied that such infiltration could have been possible with the old SAPS radio system. A new system that was put in place ensured that no unlawful infiltration took place.
Mr Khumalo expressed concern at the fact that the SAPS budget for visible policing and crime services had decreased, which could be problematic if there was a sudden need during the year for increased funding for crime services. The decreased allocation was also a concern for the deep rural areas, because they were in desperate need of police stations.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte responded that an increase in those allocations would become evident as the other SAPS programmes were enhanced. He explained that the items were budgeted for under the SAPS’ administration services programme.
Mr R Jankielson (DA) welcomed the report by the Department of Public Works which indicated that a substantial amount would be spent on police stations. Secondly, he noted the huge vacancies in detective services, especially in Gauteng. Only 34% of the total 2005/06 allocation for detective services had been spent, and if the remainder was not spent by the end of the financial year, it would be reported as underspending on the detective services item. He asked whether the underspending was due to vacancies and, if not, whether the SAPS had budgeted for the vacancies that needed to be filled.
National Commissioner Selebi replied that the vacancies must be broken down, especially in Gauteng. Members of the detective service received more training than the ordinary functional police, because it was a specialised unit. For that reason the numbers of standard officers at police stations would never be the same as the number of detectives. He explained that the SAPS had decided that 30% of the new recruits would go to the detective services and crime intelligence units in order to bolster the number of detectives. The Free State province would receive 132 additional detectives, the Northern Cape would receive 138, the North West would receive 114, Limpopo 135, Kwazulu-Natal 236, Gauteng 400, Mpumalanga 236, the Western Cape 357 and the Eastern Cape would receive 352 detectives. He reiterated that these amounts were over and above the additional 30% of all new recruits that would go to detective services.
National Commissioner Selebi stated that part of the problem was that the SAPS had a multitude of specialised units, such as the violent crimes unit, which was really murder and robbery. A process of untying those specialised units has commenced, with the aim of placing those skills at station level, where they were really needed. Thus the murder and robbery specialised unit, for example, would be moved to the localities where those skills were most needed. The aim was also to place the detectives where they were needed most, namely at the police stations. The SAPS would report back to the Committee within a few months on the progress made. He assured the Committee that the SAPS would be able to deal with the vacancies in the shortest possible time, because it had the necessary strategies in place.
Mr Jankielson sought clarity on the incentives for retaining the criminal record centre and the forensics laboratories, as they also reported several vacancies.
National Commissioner Selebi responded that the problem of vacancies extended beyond those two services, as it applied to a number of other divisions or units within the SAPS. The SAPS was currently implementing a scarce skills dispensation that was aimed at paying personnel according to their skills rank in an effort to retain their skills.
Deputy National Commissioner Singh added that the strategy involved the provision of significant training in order to develop scarce skills within the SAPS. Upon completion of their training those personnel would then be locked into contracts with the SAPS, because the SAPS had invested in their development. They would be paid allowances, depending on how scarce the skill was that they possessed.
Mr Jankielson stated that the SAPS currently experienced a shortage of active police members, and the President had stated that the SAPS would have 152 000 active members by 2006. He asked whether ‘active police officers’ meant non- administrative personnel. If so, the current numbers fell far short of the 152 000 mentioned by the President.
National Commissioner Selebi replied that the figure indicated by the President was correct. The problem with reaching that target involved a number of issues, such as whether the SAPS should spend funds and build training facilities simply because it would allow it to achieve that target, whereafter it would have no use for those facilities again. He stated that the SAPS stood by that target. It currently had 121 000 active personnel, and the target of 152 000 would be arrived at as the SAPS continued to increase its personnel.
Mr Jankielson stated that the Auditor-General’s Report indicated that the SAPS had spent R38, 9 million on detainees in private hospitals. The actual victims of crimes however had to be content with state hospitals as many could not afford private hospitals, yet the SAPS found it fit to spend R39 million on medical costs for detainees in private hospitals.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte responded that the amount has decreased enormously, and stated that it disappeared completely in the SAPS 2005/06 annual report because it terminated that contract. He explained that it was an isolated case in one province, and not a country-wide matter.
Mr Jankielson stated that he understood that reservists reported to the SAPS and the municipal police reported to their municipality, but he sought clarity on the accountability of the Bambanani patrols in the Western Cape. He asked the SAPS to explain what was being done to monitor those patrols. He asked whether they were nothing more than a private police force for the Western Cape Member of the Executive Council (MEC), or whether they were included in the SAPS’ reservist system.
National Commissioner Selebi replied that they were a group of volunteers and, as such, they were no different from many other community patrol groups. He stated that the SAPS was not responsible for the Bambanani patrols, and had no control over them as it was a Western Cape provincial government initiative. They should ideally become SAPS reservists, and they were more than welcome to apply and receive the requisite reservist training.
Mr Jankielson asked for progress on the procurement of safes for the storage of SAPS weapons. One of the concerns raised by the Auditor-General’s Report was that many SAPS weapons had been lost.
Commissioner Sonto replied that 67 000 safes had been procured.
Mr Jankielson stated that there was much concern as to whether the SAPS would continue to run the witness protection programme. If so, he asked the SAPS to indicate the programme it fell under. He asked whether any agreement had been reached between the SAPS and the Department of Justice on the matter.
National Commissioner Selebi responded that the personnel who protected witnesses were in reality SAPS members. He was not sure how it happened but at some point the witness protection programme migrated to the Department of Justice, despite the fact that the actual bodyguards were in fact SAPS officers. The manager of the witness protection programme was a Department of Justice official, but the actual bodyguards were SAPS members. At the beginning of 2006, the SAPS had informed the Department of Justice that it wanted 93 bodyguards to be returned to the SAPS because they had no career path at all within the Department of Justice. It appeared that that Department needed a bit more time to get itself ready for the relinquishment of personnel. That was the current situation. He stated that if the Department of Justice wanted to provide witness protection services, then it must provide so from its own personnel and funds. Discussions with the Department were ongoing to sort out the matter.
Ms Van Wyk stated that the SAPS had mentioned during its meeting with the Committee in 2005 that it would be evaluating those police stations that were not open 24 hours a day. She sought clarity on the progress made.
Deputy National Commissioner Pruis replied that those stations had members on standby. The accommodation of SAPS members at police stations in the small towns was also a problem and it cannot be resolved simply by sending more members to those stations because there was insufficient accommodation for them. The result was that officers had to travel long distances to get to those stations. As indicated by the presentation, the matter would however be addressed at local level as part of the SAPS re-organisation programme.
Ms Van Wyk stated that the Auditor-General’s Report raised concerns about the SAPS’ inventory control system. She asked the SAPS to explain the steps it had taken to address the problem, the amount budgeted for the upgrading of the system and the timeframe within which this concern would disappear from the Auditor-General’s Report.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte responded that new control measures have been designed, and assured the Committee that the problem would be resolved. The practical problem with inventory control was that the SAPS received its clothing orders in bulk in the last three days of the financial year, and it was thus impossible to process every single item in time.
Ms Van Wyk sought clarity on the SAPS vehicle control management programme.
Commissioner M Meyer replied that the SAPS had published a tender for vehicles in collaboration with SITA, and the tender process would be completed by mid May 2006. The implementation of the vehicle control management system software would then commence, which would be able to track the SAPS vehicles and the speed at which they drove etc.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte added that in the past the ratio was one vehicle for every four policemen, but the SAPS was now trying to develop differential norms to reflect the specific vehicle needs for the different SAPS units.
Ms Van Wyk noted that many SAPS members contravened the Firearms Control Act because they did not hand in their firearms and ammunition when they left the service. She asked the SAPS to explain what was being done to correct the problem, and the amount budgeted for the procurement of safes for the weapons.
Deputy National Commissioner Pruis responded that National Commissioner Selebi had issued a new directive which required all SAPS members who left the service to certify that they had in fact handed in their weapons.
Ms Van Wyk expressed disbelief at the current practise where dockets were assigned to SAPS members who were no longer part of the service. Surely it impacted negatively on service delivery? She disagreed with the argument that more funding needed to be allocated to the fight against crime as it already had a huge budget, but she believed the problem lay in the manner in which those resources were managed. She sought clarity on the processes put in place to ensure this practice was immediately discontinued.
National Commissioner Selebi requested that the Member provide the SAPS with concrete information.
The Chair informed the National Commissioner that it was included in the Auditor-General’s Report.
National Commissioner Selebi replied that there must be something wrong with the Auditor-General’s Report, as it did not seem to understand the SAPS docket management system. He explained that when a detective was allocated to a case but left the service before the case was finalised, for some time thereafter the name of that detective would remain in the system. The SAPS sought to ensure that their name was removed from the system immediately upon leaving the service. He explained that it did not therefore mean that the SAPS allocated cases to people who had already left the service.
Commissioner Meyer added that once the docket was allocated to a SAPS member it could not be removed from the system until that docket was relocated to another SAPS member. The Auditor-General must have come across the name of a specific SAPS member who had since left the service and the list of dockets previously assigned to him / her. She explained that it was merely old data that the unit commander was going through in re-allocating the dockets to other detectives.
The Chair asked how long it took to re-allocate a docket.
Commissioner Meyer responded that it depended on the unit commander.
National Commissioner Selebi added that there was no predetermined period, as it depended on how soon the unit commander could do it.
Ms Van Wyk suggested that, although the human factor must be taken into consideration, it would however be a problem if the unit commander took two weeks to re-allocate a single docket. She stated that a minimum time standard was needed.
The Chair stated that the SAPS must identify a process to deal with the matter.
National Commissioner Selebi replied that that was precisely what Commissioner Meyer was busy working on at the moment.
Ms Van Wyk asked whether the SAPS was satisfied that it had the necessary human resource capacity to take over the responsibilities from the Department of Public Works.
Commissioner Sonto answered in the affirmative.
Divisional Commissioner Schutte added that it was for that reason that the SAPS concluded a Memorandum of Understanding with that Department that it would continue to deal with matters such as the municipal services and property rates for at least years one and two. He stated that the SAPS were happy for that Department to assist it, subject to the payment of a management fee.
Ms Van Wyk noted that the visible policing target not been achieved for the 2005/06 financial year, and sought clarity on the corrective measures put in place to achieve the 2006/07 targets.
Deputy National Commissioner Pruis responded that, as National Commissioner Selebi had indicated earlier, the SAPS would be providing the Committee with a full presentation on the new developments in sector policing. He indicated that a decision was taken that 95% of all new SAPS recruits would be allocated to sector policing. The SAPS had devised profiles of the sectors but were not yet in a position to indicate the precise number of members needed per sector, as it had not yet considered all the aspects of sector policing. The presentation would provide information on how different sectors dealt with the programme.
Ms Van Wyk stated that the presentation indicated that 95% of new recruits had received training, and she asked why it was that 100% of new recruits had not been trained.
Deputy National Commissioner Singh replied that some of the recruits pulled out of the training for a variety of reasons, and there was thus a 5% drop-out rate.
Mr Ndlovu sought clarity on the progress made by the SAPS and the SANDF to tie up the borderline security issue. He asked whether the number of SANDF members that would be taken over had been finalised.
National Commissioner Selebi responded that figures on the number of personnel had been bandied about. The SAPS however had certain operating standards that all its members had to meet, such as standards of education, competencies, specialised tests etc. It was thus possible that the SAPS could have a large intake of SANDF personnel, but that only a few would pass the SAPS tests. This was however a work in progress, and he was not able at the moment to indicate exactly how many SANDF members had passed the tests.
Deputy National Commissioner Pruis replied that there were certain borderline operations that the SAPS were not able to perform like the patrols done by the Corvettes or Oryx helicopters. The SAPS had thus reached an agreement and partnership on the issue of borderline security. It was not cost-effective for the SAPS to purchase its own Corvettes for example, and it was thus decided that the SANDF would continue to perform certain operations.
Mr F Maserumule (ANC) noted that there was a migration of criminals into the far remote areas, and asked whether the SAPS was addressing its infrastructure needed to cater for this phenomenon. He referred specifically to the lack of police stations in the rural areas.
National Commissioner Selebi responded that a total of 11 police stations had been constructed, and 23 more were currently being built in different areas. He stated that the complete list could be provided to Members.
Mr Maserumule asked why training was only provided in English and Afrikaans.
Deputy National Commissioner Singh replied that it was a basic entry requirement to become a SAPS member that the person had English as a language, as all training was provided in English.
Mr M Moatshe (ANC) asked the SAPS to indicate the once-off allocation for vehicle procurement for 2008 and 2009.
Mr S Kholwane (ANC) sought clarity on the equity ratio of 70 to 30.
Deputy National Commissioner Singh responded that the equity target was 70 to 30 for all levels in the organisation.
Mr Kholwane sought a breakdown per province on the number of reservists currently on the SAPS’ books, as well as the number of safes. This information was important for Members’ oversight function when they had to report back to their constituencies next week.
National Commissioner Selebi replied that it was contained in the Annual Report.
The Chair thanked the SAPS delegation for the valuable input, and stated that the difference between this presentation and the one received by the Committee during 2005 was evident. She thanked the SAPS for providing Members with the presentation well in advance.
Secretariat for Safety and Security Briefing
Mr T Mathe, Head of the Secretariat for Safety and Security, explained that the Secretariat’s priorities were:
- integrated law enforcement operations;
- reducing the number of illegal firearms;
- ensuring better processing of applications for firearm licences;
- reducing drug trafficking and substance abuse;
- implementing social crime prevention measures; and
- land reform and restitution.
He outlined the Secretariat’s specific programmes and projects for 2006/07 and the Secretariat’s total budgets for 2006/07 for projects and personnel expenditure. A detailed breakdown of the Secretariat’s budget per programme and project was also provided.
Rev Moeshoe asked whether the Secretariat in fact had the necessary personnel capacity to conduct its work, especially dealing with complaints.
Mr Mathe responded that a stop-gap structure was in place, which was not informed by a business plan. It was realised that the structure must be reviewed in terms of its service delivery requirements and the business plan. He explained further that the manager at the Secretariat had been seconded to the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority (PSIRA), and he was thus requested by the Minister to oversee the unit that had since been left without a manager. The Minister stated that there would be no appointment of new staff until the Secretariat was restructured.
Mr M Mogatusi, Secretariat, added that the reviewed personnel structure would be completed by June 2006 at the earliest.
Ms Van Wyk stated that the revised organogram must be provided to Members as soon as it was finalised.
Rev Moeshoe sought a breakdown of the Secretariat’s allocation of R6 million for personnel costs.
Mr Mogatusi responded that during the Secretariat’s strategic planning session it developed its cost drivers on each of its projects to ensure that each aspect that related to the implementation of the specific project was covered in the costs reflected. The R6 million was spent on one Chief Director and five directors, which amounted to six members of staff at the senior management level. It was also used for the employment of six deputy directors, which was the middle management component.
Ms Van Wyk sought clarity on the statement in the presentation that the Secretariat would be involved in the finalisation of the PSIRA Amendment Bill, as she did not believe that the Bill was at that an advanced stage yet.
Ms T Lupuwana, Secretariat, responded that there was as yet no PSIRA Amendment Bill. The process had been initiated, but so far only certain areas of the PSIRA Act that required amendment had been identified. She was informed that there were still policy issues that were outstanding.
The Chair failed to understand the explanation. She sought clarity on the statement in the presentation that the PSIRA Amendment Bill was being finalised.
Ms Lupawana explained that there was an intention to amend the PSIRA Act. So far certain areas that required amendment have been identified. She stated that the reference to ‘finalisation’ in the presentation was a typing error, and should properly have stated ‘amendment of PSIRA Act’.
Mr Jankielson asked whether the Secretariat would now be conducting investigations into complaints against police officers, as was suggested by the Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD).
Mr Mathe replied that it so happened that there was an overlap of functions between the Secretariat and the ICD, particularly around complaints from members of the public. It came to light that the ICD was entertaining those complaints that the Secretariat should have been dealing with, and vice versa. Discussions were entered into and it was agreed that all complaints that the ICD was currently dealing with that pertained to the Secretariat would be referred back to it, and the Secretariat would do the same. He explained that the kind of investigation conducted by the Secretariat was done internally, because most of the problems related to unfair dismissal.
The Chair ruled that the matter be laid to rest, because Mr Mathe had explained that the Secretariat was doing its best to get back onto its feet again. She stated that the Secretariat would have to respond to some of the questions posed at a later date, when it was clear what exact information was expected from them.
Concluding remarks by Chairperson
The Chair thanked the Secretariat for the valuable input and wished it well on its intended restructuring.
The meeting was adjourned.
No related documents
- We don't have attendance info for this committee meeting
Download as PDF
You can download this page as a PDF using your browser's print functionality. Click on the "Print" button below and select the "PDF" option under destinations/printers.
See detailed instructions for your browser here.