3rd & 4th Amendment: Constitution; Compliance Costs Bill; Human Cloning Prohibitions Bill

Meeting report

COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEMBERS’ LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY)
3 June 1998
3RD & 4TH AMENDMENT: CONSTITUTION; COMPLIANCE COSTS BILL; HUMAN CLONING PROHIBITIONS BILL

Documents handed out:
Draft Rules 98 – 104: Bills initiated by Assembly members in individual capacity (see appendix)
Proposal for interim procedure for dealing with proposed bills
Internet information on Human Cloning

SUMMARY
The meeting discussed the Parliamentary Draft Rules with regard to the Committee's mandate to discuss/recommend proposed Bills. The committee unanimously agreed on Sub–Paragraph 3 of Mr Hahndiek's interim proposal as its guideline to deal with any proposed bill. Voting on Ms de Lille's proposed bill, Third Amendment to the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa took place. Eleven voted against and nine voted for the Bill to be proceeded with.

MINUTES
The Draft Rules of Parliament have currently been the sole guide for this Committee on how to proceed with bills or amendment bills proposed by private members. According to Mr Hahndiek, secretary to the Speaker of the National Assembly, the new rules regulating how such bill proposals are to be handled were supposed to be forwarded to this Committee by 19 May 1998. Mr. Hahndiek reported that the meeting on the Draft Rules did not take place on the 26 May 1998 as scheduled and had since been postponed for an indefinite time.

For the Committee to proceed with the Bills, Mr. Ndhlovu of the Inkatha Freedom Front proposed that the Committee adopts Sub Paragraph 3 of Mr Hahndiek's proposal as the interim procedure for the Committee to operate on. The Committee agreed on Sub Paragraph 3 as its procedural rules after a long deliberation on the Draft Rules. This interim procedure is that all recommendations go before the House for consideration. Thus if a proposal is rejected, it does not merely appear in the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports but is placed on the Order Paper for consideration by the House. The draft rules allow for this with the wording:
"99 (4) .........the Committee must recommend that permission either be -
(a) given to the member to proceed with the proposed legislation: or
(b) refused"
but current practice had not been referring these rejected proposals to the House.

The Chairperson returned to the agenda and addressed the first bill proposal, the Third Amendment to the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa which had been presented by Ms De Lille of the Pan African Congress Party. The Bill had already been discussed by the various political parties. The Chairperson asked the Committee to vote on the Bill. The Bill was rejected by eleven votes to nine.

Annexure 1:
DRAFT RULES
Bills initiated by Assembly members in individual capacity

Submission of legislative proposals to Speaker
98. (1) An Assembly member intending to introduce a Bill in the Assembly in an individual capacity (other than as a Cabinet member or Deputy Minister) must obtain the Assembly's permission before introducing the Bill.

(2) For purposes of the Assembly's debate in terms of rule 100(2) on the question whether permission should be given for the Introduction of the Bill, the member must submit to the Speaker a memorandum which -
(a) sets our particulars of the proposed legislation;
(b) explains the objects of the proposed legislation; and
(c) stares whether the proposed legislation will have financial implications for the state and, if so, whether those implications may be a determining factor when the proposed legislation is considered.

Referral of proposals to committee
99. (1) The Speaker must refer the member's memorandum to the Committee on
Members' Legislative Proposals.

(2) The Committee must consult the portfolio committee within whose portfolio the
proposal falls.

(3) If the Committee after such consultation is of the view that the member's proposal has merit, but that it may have financial Implications for the state that are significant enough to warrant further investigation, it must request the Speaker to refer the member's memorandum to
the appropriate portfolio committee for a report on the financial implications of the proposal.

Note: Consider whether capacity should be created to assist committees to establish the financial implications of legislative proposals orginating in the Assembly.

(4) After considering the member's memorandum and the portfolio committee's report, if there is such a report, the Committee must recommend that permission either be -
(a) given to the member to proceed with the proposed legislation: or
(b) refused

(5) If the Committee recommends that the proposed legislation be proceeded with, it may -
(a) express itself on the desirability of the proposal;
(b) recommend that the Assembly approve the member's proposal in principle; or
(c) recommend that the permission be given subject to conditions.

Consideration of legislative proposal
100. (1) The Committee on Members' Legislative Proposals must table in the Assembly the member's memorandum and the Committee's recommendation. If a portfolio committee has reported on the financial implications of the proposal, the portfolio committee must also table its report.

(2) The Speaker must place the member's proposal on the Order Paper for debate and decision.

(3) The Assembly may -
(a) give permission that the proposal be proceeded with; a
(b) refer the proposal back to the Committee or the portfolio committee concerned for a further report; or
(c) refuse permission.

(4) if the Assembly gives permission that the proposal be proceeded with, it may, if it so chooses -
(a) express itself on the desirability of the proposal;
(b) approve the proposal in principle; or
(c) subject its permission to conditions.

Preparation of draft Bill
101. (1) if the Assembly gives permission that the proposal be proceeded with, the
member concerned must -
(a) prepare a draft Bill, and a memorandum setting out the objects of the Bill, in a form and style that complies with any prescribed requirements;
(b) consult the JTM for advice on the classification of the Bill; and
(a) comply with rule 105 or, if it is a proposed constitutional amendment, with rule 122.

Note: Consider whether Parliament should establish an internal drafting capacity.

(2) The Secretary must reimburse a member for any reasonable expenses incurred by the member in giving effect to subrule (1), provided that those expenses were approved by the Speaker before they were incurred.

Bills initiated by Assembly Committees

Submission of legislative proposals to Speaker
102. (1) An Assembly committee intending to introduce a Bill in the Assembly must obtain the Assembly's permission before introducing the Bill.

(2) For purposes of the Assembly's debate on the question whether permission should be given for the introduction of the Bill, the committee must table in the Assembly a memorandum which -
(a) sets out particulars of the proposed legislation;
(b) explains the objects of the proposed legislation; and
(c) states whether the proposed legislation will have financial implications for the state and, if so, gives an account of those implications.

(3) The Speaker must place the proposal on the Order Paper for debate and decision.

(4) The Assembly may -
(a) give permission that the proposal be proceeded with;
(b) refer the proposal back to the committee for reconsideration; or
(c) refuse permission.

(5) If the Assembly gives permission that the proposal be proceeded with, it may, if it so chooses -
(a) express itself on the desirability of the proposal;
(b) approve the proposal in principle; or
(c) subject its permission to conditions.

Preparation of draft Bill
103. (1) if the Assembly gives permission that the proposal be proceeded with, the committee must -
(a) prepare a draft Bill, and a memorandum setting out the objects of the Bill; in a form and style that complies with any prescribed requirements;
(b) consult the JTM for advice on the classification of the Bill; and
comply with rule 105 or, if it is a proposed constitutional amendment, with rule 122

(2) If the Committee chooses in terms of rule 105 or 122 to publish the draft Bill, it is not bound to publish the Bill as it is to be introduced. lnstead the committee may publish any version of the draft Bill prepared by it in terms of subrule (1)(a).

(3) The Committee must report to the Assembly when it publishes the draft Bill.

(4) On tabling the report the chairperson of the committee may in a speech not exceeding 15 minutes, explain the background to the draft Bill and the reasons for and objects of the draft Bill.

Consideration of draft Bill before introduction
104. Before introducing its Bill, the committee -
(a) must arrange its business in such a manner that interested persons and institutions have a period of at least three weeks after the draft Bill or particulars of the draft Bill have been published in terms of rule 105 or 122, to comment on the proposed legislation;
(b) must give officials of any relevant state department or other executive organ of state a sufficient Opportunity to state their case before the Committee;
(c) must consult the JTM for advice on the classification of the draft Bill; and
(d) may in view of any comments received in terms of paragraph (a) or (b) or advice given in terms of paragraph (c) adjust the draft Bill before its introduction.

Annexure 2:
MEMORANDUM
TO : Mr PA Matthee
Chairperson of Committee on Private Members'
Legislative Proposals
FROM : K Hahndiek
Secretary to the National Assembly
DATE : 19 May 1998
SUBJECT : REPORT ON MEETING OF MR MATTHEE WITH THE SPEAKER ON 13 MAY 1998

Mr Matthee, as Chairperson, met the Speaker on 13 May 1998 to discuss progress with the Assembly's draft Rules on bills initiated by members, as well as practices and procedures in terms of the current Rules.

The object of the meeting was to ensure that the Committee on Private Members' Legislative Proposals would be able to function in a manner that was consistent with the Constitution, 1996.

The following was clarified at the meeting:

1. Progress with NA draft Rules:

The Chairperson of the NA Rules Subcommittee should be consulted on finalization of the draft Rules. Parties still needed to consider the draft Rules, after which the NA Rules Committee could take a decision on them.

The next Assembly Rules Committee meeting is programmed for Tuesday, 26 May.

2. Procedures in terms of current Rules:

(1) Proposed bill accepted: In terms of the current Rules, if the Committee on Private Members' Legislative Proposals recommends that a private member's bill be accepted, the member must ensure that the bill is drafted in the proper form and style, after which it may be formally introduced in the House by submitting it to the Speaker. It is then tabled and referred to the appropriate portfolio committee.

(2) Proposed bill rejected - current practice: If the Committee on Private Members' Legislative Proposals recommends that a proposed bill be not proceeded with, according to current practice the Committee's report is printed in the document "Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports" (ATC), and the matter ends there.

However, any member may give notice of a motion for the House to consider the Committee's report. Subsequent consideration of the report will depend on agreement between the Whips to arrange the business of the House accordingly.

(3) Proposed bill rejected - alternative practice: Rule 168(4) clearly states that the Committee makes a recommendation. The Committee's recommendation by implication is made to the House. If the Committee specifies in its report that the report is to be considered, the report is placed on the Order Paper of the House for consideration.

This is a departure from current practice, but is entirely acceptable in terms of the Rules. This approach would provide the House with the opportunity to adopt, or reject, the report containing the committee's recommendation.

Once again, whether the report will be considered by the House depends on agreement between the Whips to arrange the business of the House accordingly. Furthermore, if a debate is required on the report, time must be allocated for that purpose.