Built Environment Legislation: hearings

Meeting report

Chamber of Mines of South Africa
Mr B Shipment said that the Council is strongly of the view that the Bills for the Council for the Built Environment, Engineering, Project and Construction Management, Architectural, and the Landscape Architectural Professions should be amended regarding the issues of the Competition Commission, and the reservation of work. These Bills should be amended to show clearly no potential for undesirable overlapping with other legislation, such as the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1996 which regulates competence for the performance of work in the mining industry. He asked that the Chamber of Mines be excluded from this Bill as the mining industry is already adequately regulated and controlled.

Mr Shipment requested that the Bills also be amended to remove the pre-eminence given to the Council for the Built Environment and the councils for the professions over the views the Competition Commission may have concerning the reservation of work for persons registered under the proposed legislation. Clause 20(2) should therefore be amended to require the Council to obtain approval of the Competition Commission, in consultation with them, for the reservation of work.

Discussion
Mr Spencer from the Department said that the legislation refers to the competency of the professional appointed to do the work, after the work has been identified. This includes all people working in the mines for, when employing the services of an engineer, he should be competent. This does not refer to job reservation. He informed the committee that current legislation enables a Minister to exempt an industry, but there must be a proper process. Previously, the mining industry has been exempted for a long time from this type of legislation. Do the reasons for exclusion presently apply, and what makes mining engineers different from other engineers?

Mr Moonsamy (ANC) said that the role of the CBE is to ensure that the built environment is protected, which is consistent with the Constitution. The mining sector is part of the country.

Mr Shipment said that they are not trying to cling to the past. He said that there is a Mining Qualification Authority which regulates the competency of the mine workers. Identity and the reservation of work are the same. Why should exemption be at the discretion of the President? Competence is the point of departure between the present and the past. The Mining Qualification Framework is an improvement on the past. Licensing can take away practice, but not competency, and other issues such as qualifications should be identified. The registration of professionals provides for conduct, and not competency. They supported this regulation as a step in the right direction.

Mr Spencer said that when drafting the Bill, they had realised there would be a problem when dealing with the mining Industry. They had decided to sort it out after the Bills are passed. He acknowledged that there would be an overlap with regard to the identification of work.

Ms Gcina (ANC) asked why would the mining industry be excluded from this Bill.
Mr Shipment said the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1996 regulates competence for the performance of work in the mining industry. This act requires that workers be tested for qualifications, and issue successful workers with certificates of competence. Because of the regulatory controls in the mining industry, we already have certificates of competency. Why should these workers also register in terms of the new legislation? This registration should therefore be optional.
ECSA said that they are working hand in hand with the mining authority, and has signed an agreement with them regarding the Mining Qualification Authority. The South African Qualification Authority has already established the standards, and why should there be another body to duplicate this?
The Chairperson said that the CBE will be an umbrella body, and that the Chamber of Mines are supporting the Bill, subject to certain amendments.

Institute of Professional Engineering Technologists (IPET)
Mr V Barnard proposed the composition of the Council be changed, so that each branch of engineering be represented by two representatives from the voluntary society (of which one should be a certificated engineer, technician or a technologist), two representatives from the professional society and one representative from the educational society for each group of bodies. Mr Barnard proposed that a proviso be included in the Act, which prohibits the Council from recognising voluntary associations that discriminate on the prohibited grounds of race, gender and so on. Mr Barnard explained the inherent dangers of the proposed title of ‘Professional Engineering Technicians’ being given to engineer technicians (see paragraph 2.3 of presentation)

Discussion
Mr Moonsamy thanked IPET for their positive approach.

The chairperson informed the committee that IPET was satisfied with most of the clauses in the bill.

South African Institution of Civil Engineering
Ms A Lawless delivered a slide presentation on the need and the role for civil engineers (see presentation) .

Discussion
Ms Lawless said that that they do not have a problem with the number of people appointed to sit on the Council, but emphasised that two representatives is not enough to cover each discipline. The Engineering Council has nine disciplines, and there should at least one representative for the nine disciplines.

Mr Moonsamy (ANC) asked why should only technical people be allowed to sit on appeals. Each profession should have at least one vote, as the functions of engineers vary greatly.

Mr Roux (ECSA) said that the fine balance between voluntary and statutory associations needs to be maintained.

Mr Spencer interjected by saying that this process and legislation is not perfect. Legislation is long-term, and can be amended. The challenge for government is to ensure it effectively targets the issues that it was intended for. They are building this legislation on existing legislation.

Ms Lawless requested the committee to reflect on the following concerns:
· The purpose of the voluntary association is to promote the profession.
· These Bills are not only about public protection, but the preservation of the built environment.
· Creation of the Council will assist other professions to find solutions.
· Finance should be mobilised into projects to develop Project Management.
· Project Management is important, and the establishment of this Council should not be delayed.
· Being a Project Manager recognised by through legislation, makes you more marketable, and in turn will enable you to more than make up the membership fee paid.
· Development of the profession will ensure positive results.

Mr Spencer concluded by saying that the government is committed to the establishment of the CBE, and will provide assistance until it becomes self sustainable. However they should not rely on government to be responsible for the cost of the Council.

As the other presenters were not present, the chairperson declared the meeting closed.