Ministers of Police & Public Enterprises Executive Undertakings; Emfuleni Local Municipality Petition: Committee Reports

Meeting report

Opening
The Chairperson greeted everyone and mentioned that this would be a very short meeting for adopting various Committee reports. Thereafter, she experienced poor network and was kicked out of the meeting.

It was suggested that the Committee be taken through the ‘Observations and Findings’ section of the report whilst waiting for the Chairperson to return.

Mr E Mthethwa (ANC, KZN) suggested they appoint an Acting Chairperson to guide the meeting.

As such, Ms S Shaikh (ANC, Limpopo) was the Acting Chairperson.

Committee Report: Progress Report by Minister of Public Enterprises on Undertakings made during the sitting of 24 May 2021

Ms Shaikh indicated that the meeting should proceed until the Chairperson returns. The ‘Observations and Findings’ section was thus read out aloud for the Committee.

Discussion:
The Acting Chairperson indicated that they all received this report well ahead of time, and she called for questions and comments.

Mr R Badenhorst (DA, Western Cape) mentioned that he was the one who made the comment to the Minister about the petrol plant in Mossel Bay, and to this, the Minister agreed to return to the Committee with an update of the idea. This was not reflected in the report.

The Acting Chairperson asked if the other Members could recall this.

Mr Mthethwa responded, saying he did not recall this.

The Acting Chairperson asked Mr Badenhorst why he recommended this.

Mr Badenhorst said what was discussed in the meeting must be reflected in the report. He recalled that the Minister said he would revert to the Committee about the gas to electricity project in Mossel Bay. This should be in the report.  

The Acting Chairperson said this could be brought up when the Committee dealt with the minutes.  

At this point, the Chairperson returned.

The Acting Chairperson asked if Mr Badenhorst was saying that they should add what he raised to the report.

Mr Badenhorst confirmed this.

The Acting Chairperson asked the Committee Secretary to comment on this. She imagined that this would be in the recording.

The Committee Secretary responded by saying he did have the recording.

The Acting Chairperson suggested that the Committee Secretary go back to the recording and confirm what Mr Badenhorst said. If this is the case, it can be added to 5.1 in the report.

All were in agreement.

Mr Mthethwa said that they could not deal with matters in this manner. They were currently consolidating many discussions in the report. Anyone could now complain that their input was not reflected in the report. This was not right; they should work with what they had. How would the omission assist them going forward?

The Acting Chairperson said Mr Badenhorst was ensuring that the minutes correctly reflected the commitments made in the observations. She asked if Mr Badenhorst would be fine with waiting for confirmation from the recording.

Mr Badenhorst thought that the purpose of approving minutes from meetings was to ensure that they were a true reflection of what transpired at the meeting.

Members began speaking over each other

The Acting Chairperson thought Mr Badenhorst was confusing the minutes with the report.

Mr Mthethwa said that the report was a consolidation of issues, while the other details would go into the minutes. These were not the minutes.

The Chairperson said that this was the report - they had yet to adopt the minutes which would be dealt with after the report. They could not amend a report issued by the Minister.

Mr Badenhorst said that he was looking at the screen and it referred to queries made by the Committee and went onto what the Committee noted. It did not reflect the Minister's undertaking to revert to the Committee on the Mossel Bay project.

The Acting Chairperson asked if they could agree that these were not minutes; this was a report.

Mr Badenhorst said that what was reflected in the report was what Members said at the meeting. Surely, the Minister’s comments should also be reflected here.

The Acting Chairperson said there was still a process which had to be undertaken because some Members had no recollection of such. She proposed that this issue be placed in the minutes, awaiting a follow-up from the Chairperson of the Petitions Committee. She wished to proceed.

The report was then adopted.

The Chairperson apologised for her poor network. She asked to move on to the second report.

Committee Report: Undertakings on the Hearing of the Emfuleni Petition, Held on 1 November 2023

The report was considered and adopted.

Committee Report: Progress Report by the Minister of Police on the Undertakings made during the sitting of 30 May 2023 

Mr Badenhorst raised an in-principle concern, that the Committee was engaging in a ‘tick-box’ exercise and rushing through the reports because it suited the ruling party. He said this was a very important meeting being sandwiched during a lunch hour and it was being rushed. This was a huge concern. The Committee would not be doing justice to the citizens of the country. Why were they rushing through meetings rather than scheduling the meeting for a Friday morning, for instance? This was irresponsible.

The Chairperson said the Committee did engage the Ministers during the Committee meetings.

Ms B Bartlett (ANC, Northern Cape) said they were not rushing through the meetings - all the meetings were of equal importance. She found the statement insulting.

The Chairperson reminded everyone that meetings of this Committee always took place on a Thursday during the lunch hour. There was no rush; the Minister did respond to the questions [during the meetings].

Mr G Michalakis (DA, Free State) agreed with Mr Badenhorst. Some processes were ongoing, but Members had not yet seen anything. The Committee was taking the word of the Minister and continued to adopt the reports. He thought that Executive Undertakings were ongoing processes where Members saw the process through. This made it seem like it was rushed. It should not be rushed; it should be ongoing so that the Committee serves the public well. The Committee should properly engage with this matter for themselves. The departments would make comments in future and they could get rid of the Executive Undertakings by saying that all was well - this was not right. He asked that the Committee reconsider its method of doing things.

The Chairperson noted this suggestion and mentioned that the Committee used to do the oversight. She called for the adoption of the report.

Ms Shaikh said she heard what both her colleagues were saying. Mr Badenhorst had not made any comment which added value to the report. The Executive Undertakings were specifically done by the Ministers. The respective committees would do continuous oversight.

The report was adopted.

Closing
The Chairperson thanked everyone for their time and participation. She hoped that all the comments were duly noted.

Committee minutes would be considered the following week.

The meeting was adjourned.