Divorce A/B: finalisation; RICA Bill & Cannabis for Private Purposes Bill: deliberations; Correctional Services BRRR (with Deputy Minister)

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Justice and Constitutional Development

31 October 2023
Chairperson: Mr G Magwanishe (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

2023 Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report

The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services considered three bills and a report.

The Committee agreed to the amendments to the Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication-Related Information Amendment Bill and adopted the A version of the Bill.

In addition, the proposed amendments to the Cannabis for Private Purposes Bill were considered.

The Divorce Amendment Bill and accompanying report was passed.

The BRRR relating to the Department of Correctional Services was approved.

Meeting report

The Chairperson welcomed everyone.

The Chairperson asked if any apologies were received except the one from Ms Yako.

Mr Siyabamkela Mthonjeni (Committee Secretary) said that no additional apologies were received.

Adv S Swart (ACDP) tendered his apology in advance for the following day’s meeting as he would be attending the finance lockdown.

The Chairperson, on behalf of the Committee, wished the Deputy Minister (DM) of the DoJ & CD a happy birthday.

Thereafter, he outlined that the Committee would vote on its BRRRs and then deliberate on the Cannabis Bill. He added that the three BRRRs would be taken as read.

BRRR of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services 31 October 2023

Mr Mthonjeni took the Committee through the report to identify any corrections.

Following that, the Chairperson requested a mover for the adoption of the report.

Mr X Nqola (ANC) moved for the adoption of the report.

Dr W Newhoudt-Druchen (ANC) seconded the mover for the adoption of the report.

As no objections were noted, the report was duly adopted by the Committee.

Read: ATC231031: Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services: Correctional Services, dated 31 October 2023

Ms Christine Silkstone (Content Advisor) mentioned that the Committee would only adopt one report as the ones relating to the OCJ and DoJ & CD were not ready at this stage and would only be available the following week.

Portfolio Committee Report on the Divorce Amendment Bill (DAB)

The Chairperson noted that the report was circulated and taken as read.

He took the Committee through the report to identify any corrections.

Dr Newhoudt-Druchen moved for the adoption of the report.

Ms K Ramolobeng (ANC) seconded the mover for the adoption of the report.

The chairperson noted that the report was agreed to and there were no objections.

Adv G Breytenbach (DA) stated that the DA reserved its position on the report.

Read: ATC231031: Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services on the Divorce Amendment Bill [B22 - 2023], Dated 31 October 2023

Adoption of DAB [B22-2022]

The Chairperson asked if there was any mover for the whole Bill.

Dr Newhoudt-Druchen moved for the adoption of the report.

Mr Nqola seconded.

The Chairperson asked if there were any objections.

Adv Breytenbach indicated that the DA has reserved its position.

The Chairperson said that the Bill has been agreed to.

Consideration of the A-List Version of the RICA Bill

The Chairperson requested that the A-list of the Bill be flighted.

Ms Allison Botha (Legal Advisor at the DoJ & CD) highlighted that only a few minor amendments were made to Clauses Two, Three, and Four of the Bill.

(See A-list)

The Chairperson asked if there was any objection to the adoption of the Bill.

Mr J Engelbrecht (DA) stated that the DA reserved its position on the Bill.

Adv Swart indicated that the ACDP also reserved its position on the Bill, but did not object to its adoption.

The Chairperson then requested a mover for the adoption of the Bill.

Mr Nqola moved for the adoption of the Bill.

Dr Newhoudt-Druchen seconded the mover for the adoption of the A-List Version of the Bill.

As no objections were noted, the Bill was duly adopted by the Committee, noting the reservations of both the ACDP and DA.

The Chairperson mentioned that the Committee would adopt its report on the Bill the following day.

He thanked the Department for the work done on the Bills as well as the

Adv Swart asked if the Committee should discuss now or later whether to have a full debate or declarations on the items.

The Chairperson replied that this could be discussed at this time.

Adv Swart proposed having declarations given the very heavy work programme of Parliament.

The Chairperson asked if those declarations would relate to the RICA Bill and DAB.

Adv Swart confirmed that was what he had suggested.

The Chairperson asked how the BRRRs would be processed.

Adv Swart highlighted that some of the reports were already on the Parliamentary Schedule but the programme was yet to be discussed by the Programming Committee. It could be that they are done in mini-plenaries and brought back to the normal plenary.  A limited amount of time would be given to parties to deliberate on the reports during the mini-plenaries. As such, he was unsure as to when they would be processed.

The Chairperson asked for him to update the Committee on any further developments. He would appreciate it if Members could be advised in time on how the Programming Committee will schedule matters. In addition, he asked if Members agreed with the proposal for them not to debate the two Bills and that they rather request declarations. 

Adv Breytenbach agreed to the proposal.

The Chairperson asked that the Committee proceed to deliberate on the CPPB.

Clause by clause deliberation on B-Version of the CPPB

Mr John Jeffery (DM of the DoJ & CD) indicated that this was a revised version of the Bill and contained all the amendments made by the Committee in the previous meeting.

Mr Henk du Preez (State Legal Advisor: DoJ & CD) then took the Members through the Bill clause-by-clause.

(See Bill)

DM Jeffery reminded Members that they had raised their concerns about the definition of cannabis in the previous meeting.

Mr du Preez pointed out that the Committee had previously said the definition of cannabis in the Bill did not make reference to any of the products that contain it. He asked if the Committee was satisfied with the current definition in the Bill or whether it should include ‘products of cannabis as well as of Hemp’.

DM Jeffery elaborated that the issue of separation from the cannabis plant was of concern, and he questioned why it should be separated from the plant. Another stakeholder highlighted that the definition should include ‘both the products of flowering or fruiting tops’ and exclude the stork leaves and branches without any fruit or flower. The roots would include all products that contained them.

The Chairperson said that he did not understand what was mentioned by the DM.

DM Jeffery explained that the central issue was the requirement for the separation of fruiting and flowering tops from the cannabis plant, as they contained the Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

Another concern was that the definition of cannabis should include products that contain cannabis, whereas products from the stork, roots and leaves should not be included.

The Chairperson asked if Members agreed that the Bill include cannabis products as well as Hemp, to the exclusion of stork leaves and branches without any fruit or flower, in the definition.

Adv Breytenbach agreed to the amendment.

Adv B Mkhwebane (EFF) said that the EFF did not support the inclusion of the amendment.

The Chairperson welcomed Adv Mkhwebane to the Committee as it was her first appearance.

DM Jeffery mentioned that the copy of the Bill was sent to the Committee Secretariat the previous evening.

The Chairperson asked if the Committee was expected to also adopt the A-List Version of the Bill.

DM Jeffery said that there would be no A-List Version as this was a redraft of the Bill.

Dr Barbara Loots (Parliamentary Legal Advisor) explained to Members that usually if a Bill contains several amendments an A-List Version is not drafted. Instead, the Bill is redrafted, similar to the Cyber Crimes Bill.

The Chairperson asked if the B-Version of the Bill could be put to a vote.

Dr Loots said that the Committee could do so or await the still-to-be-edited final draft version.

DM Jeffery suggested that the Committee read through the Bill to check for any mistakes and only adopt it the following day.

The Chairperson asked if Members wanted to make any further comments on the Bill.

Adv Swart expressed the ACDP’s objection to the Bill.

Ms N Maseko-Jele (ANC) supported the DM’s proposal.

The Chairperson recommended that the Committee start its meeting at 09:00 the following morning in order to adopt the outstanding reports and CPPB before continuing with its other work. In addition, he asked if the Committee Secretariat could prepare a report on the desirability of Mr Ganief Hendricks’ Private Members Bill (PMB) on the Divorce Amendment Act.

DM Jeffery requested that the department present its response to the submissions made on the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) Amendment Bill the following day.

The Chairperson added that the Committee will have to vote on the report related to the motion of desirability of the PMB.

Mr Mthonjeni confirmed that the report would be ready the following day.

The Chairperson outlined that the Committee would conduct a vote on the motion of desirability, the RICA report, the B-Version of the CPPB, listen to the department’s response to the submissions made to the NPA Amendment Bill and then consider its programme for the rest of the term.

Adv Breytenbach agreed with the Chairperson’s proposed way forward.

The meeting was adjourned.

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