Public Enterprises Portfolio Audit Outcome; DPE 2022/23 Annual Report; with Deputy Minister

Meeting report

Chairperson’s opening remarks

The Chairperson welcomed Members to the meeting, commenting that it was being held in person, in contrast to recent virtual sessions. He expressed his concern about the delayed start, highlighting the need for punctuality in parliamentary meetings to demonstrate respect for participants' time. He acknowledged the challenges posed by the current situation, including the lingering impact of COVID-19 and the limited space available following the destruction of Parliament by fire.

He outlined the items on the meeting agenda, which included a briefing by the Auditor-General of South Africa (AGSA) on the audit outcomes for the 2022/23 financial year, followed by a presentation by the Department of Public Enterprises (DPE) on the annual report and financial statements for the same period.

AGSA's Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report

The AGSA presented the budgetary review and recommendations report (BRRR) for the Department of Public Enterprises' portfolio, which included Eskom, Transnet, South African Airways (SAA), Alexkor, Denel, the South African Forestry Company (SAFCOL) and SA Express, which is awaiting final liquidation.

Its conclusions and recommendations contained the key root causes for the lack of improved audit outcomes, and the non-achievement of service delivery objectives; recommendations to accounting authorities that they should continue to work with the executive authority to implement and monitor the initiatives in place to improve operational performance and turnaround the SOEs; executive authorities should continue to drive accountability with the boards to improve performance and achievement of planned targets in the shareholders compact; and the Portfolio Committee needed to monitor and regularly follow up with the executive authority and accounting officer/authority on progress on implementing audit action plans and turnaround plans put in place by the Department and the entities.

(Please see attached document for full details).

Discussion

Mr S Gumede (ANC) initiated the discussion by bringing up the topic of reevaluating the authority of Members of Parliament (MPs) and the necessity of adhering to established protocols in meetings. He also underscored the difficulties encountered in executing prior recommendations. He stressed the urgency of taking tangible measures to confront persisting challenges in the Department and its affiliated organisations, particularly the state-owned enterprises (SOEs). Further, he highlighted the significance of proficient communication and strategic planning within the Department to counteract the consequences of the State Capture legacy.

Mr Gumede discussed issues related to the approval process, highlighting the implications of conflicts arising from approvals or their absence. He expressed clear frustration about the lack of accountability and the tendency to overlook discrepancies. He emphasised the need for a thorough examination and questioning of reports, especially when findings indicate irregularities or non-submissions. He expressed concerns about the timing of resignations and their potential impact on critical decision-making, particularly before the submission of financial reports.

He raised questions about the credibility of certain reports and the perceived powerlessness to rectify situations. He questioned the effectiveness of the system in addressing repeated mistakes within the Department or associated entities, suggesting the need for punitive measures for those responsible. Overall, he stressed the importance of maintaining integrity in the approval process, ensuring accountability, and addressing issues of non-compliance and inconsistencies in reports. He advocated a more robust system to hold those responsible for any misconduct or irregularities accountable.

Mr Gumede continued to address the challenges faced by the Committee or the Department in managing state-owned enterprises (SOEs) affected by the legacy of "state capture," describing the difficulties encountered by the Department in overseeing these entities, and mentioning that they might have inherited a situation where state capture significantly influenced the SOEs. He bemoaned that the Department's resources were insufficient to ensure the comprehensive rehabilitation of all the affected SOEs, suggesting that this limitation hindered its ability to effectively address the challenges.

He also expressed concern about the perception that the Department might be merely paying lip service, rather than taking concrete action to address the issues. He hoped that the Department would delve deeper into understanding the reasons behind the reported challenges, including potential internal issues that might not have been previously known to the Committee Members. It was important to understand these challenges to facilitate effective decision-making within the Committee.

Mr Gumede highlighted the complexities associated with managing SOEs affected by state capture and the need for the Department to address these challenges effectively, moving beyond superficial efforts, and ensuring a comprehensive resolution of the issues at hand.

Mr G Cachalia (DA) started by addressing the concerns regarding the lack of sufficient information provided, and stressed the critical need to understand the specific questions directed to the Auditor General. He pointed out that the accepted answers presented to the Committee directly affected the entities themselves, their respective boards, the shareholders, and the overseeing Department. He drew attention to the AG's previous report, highlighting the significant failures across various areas, including those previously flagged.

He mentioned a conversation with the Minister, referring to the need to address the issues comprehensively rather than merely highlighting any positive aspects. He stressed the importance of strengthening governance, as he believed that improved governance would lead to improved capabilities and subsequently enhanced operational, financial, and reporting aspects.

Moreover, he expressed dissatisfaction with the current state of consequence management, suggesting that more stringent measures needed to be implemented. He sought assurance from the AG regarding the effectiveness of the proposed actions, and whether the implemented strategies had produced the desired results, indicating that, in his view, the current measures were insufficient.

Mr Cachalia emphasised the importance of prioritising governance and oversight within the DPE. He underscored the significance of delineating the Minister's responsibilities and ensuring a clear separation between the Minister's role and support interaction.

In conclusion, he reiterated his ongoing concerns and stressed the need for a more holistic approach to tackle the current pressing issues.

Ms S Graham (DA) raised a series of pertinent questions regarding the presentations and reports made during the meeting. Firstly, she inquired about the timing of certain presentations in relation to the finalisation of the financial statements. She expressed concern over the main cost attributed to the compensation of employees, questioning whether the number of vacancies within the Department could be hindering the achievement of targets.

She further addressed the issue of due diligence and its alignment with the AG's standards, referencing the information shared by Minister Gordhan in a previous meeting. Ms Maree sought clarity on whether the Department intended to rely on the 2021 due diligence for future endeavours, despite the identified shortcomings, or if there were plans for a new due diligence process specifically for the South African Airways deal.

Ms J Mkhwanazi (ANC) acknowledged the collective responsibility to address the challenges highlighted by the AG's report. She emphasised the need for a comprehensive understanding of the current state of affairs and the importance of taking significant steps to reverse the declining trend. She also highlighted the role of the Committee and its duty to monitor progress based on the AG's recommendations, suggesting the involvement of the section responsible for assisting the Committee. She said there was a need for effective control and monitoring of progress, and indicated that she found the current management's implementation lacking in this regard.

She echoed the importance of the Committee's responsibility in evaluating previous and current recommendations from the AG. She emphasised the need to monitor the progress made over time and expressed her concerns about the apparent lack of advancement, as suggested by the Portfolio Committee's report.

She requested clarification regarding the function of the department responsible for supporting the Committee, and underscored its importance in comparing previous reports with the present one. There was a need to evaluate whether any advancements had been achieved, and whether the Committee was on the right track. She was concerned that the Committee might not make the anticipated progress, citing the downward trends highlighted in the report.

She urged the Chairperson to provide guidance on the matter, indicating that the section responsible for assisting the Committee should be capable of providing the necessary assistance in this regard. She underscored the urgency of effective Committee oversight and the vital role the assisting section played in ensuring that the Committee remained informed and able to track progress over time.

The Chairperson responded to a Member's query regarding the shareholder compacts, highlighting that some of the compacts were not signed on time, and in some cases, the Committee did not have access to these compacts before making assessments. He expressed concern about the Committee's lack of insight into the performance targets set in these compacts. There was a need for a clear understanding of the roles and responsibilities within the Department and the communication processes involved. He questioned whether the difficulties encountered were a result of miscommunication or a breakdown in the hierarchical structure within the Department. He highlighted the importance of engaging in a comprehensive process, comparing it to an academic examination process, to ensure that all aspects were thoroughly reviewed from start to finish.

He asked about the measures taken by the Department and related entities to rectify the identified issues, and whether there were any ongoing processes to continuously engage and collaborate with the Department and entities to improve the situation. He pointed out the potential negative impact of continued challenges and the importance of maintaining effective communication and collaboration to achieve positive outcomes.

Mr Gumede addressed the disparity between the DPE's high scores in audits, resulting in an unqualified opinion, and the poor performance of the entities overseen by the Department, many of which had received disclaimers or qualified opinions. He raised the issue of internal compliance, and suggested that the DPE should assume more direct control over the entities, rather than operating separately from them. He expressed the need to reconcile the discrepancy between the Department's performance and that of the entities it oversees, seeking advice from the AG on how to address this issue.

Mr Gumede also drew attention to the outstanding audit reports, specifically mentioning the delays in the audit process, which were expected to be completed in November. He expressed concern about the accumulation of these outstanding reports and its impact on the Committee's oversight role. There was an urgent need to address the situation, particularly in the case of SAA, where significant transactions had not been properly reported, leading to a backlog of work.

Further, there was a need to reevaluate the governance structure. Mr Gumede proposed the idea of having the entities directly managed by the DPE, rather than allowing them to operate autonomously under their respective boards. Necessary changes should be enacted to improve the performance and overall governance of these struggling institutions, particularly with respect to the impending decision-making process concerning SAA's future under the control of Takatso or the DPE. He underlined the significance of these deliberations in the context of the Department's and the entities' ongoing challenges.

AGSA's response

Ms Madidimalo Singo, Acting Business Executive, AGSA, acknowledged the significance of the Committee's role in overseeing the institutions, and emphasised the need for effective monitoring and implementation of the turnaround plans. She underscored the importance of clear timelines and accountability in the execution of these plans, and the need for regular updates to the Committee.

She said the internal audit functions had a pivotal role in ensuring effective oversight and control within the institutions. Capacity-building within these functions was important to strengthen their effectiveness. The audit committee had to play a proactive role in ensuring that the internal audit function operated at an optimal level, thus contributing to improving the overall governance structure.

She addressed concerns about delays in signing shareholder compacts, highlighting the significance of timely signing to facilitate effective implementation, and stressed the importance of aligning corporate plans and annual performance plans with the commitments made by the entities. The Committee needed to hold the Department accountable for ensuring the timely signing of these compacts to enable smooth operations.

Ms Singo encouraged a holistic approach to addressing the challenges faced by the institutions, pointing out the importance of continuous monitoring, effective governance structures, and strengthened internal audit functions.

Mr Bongumusa Thabethe, Senior Manager, AGSA, referred to the parliamentary decision made in 2008 regarding the allocation of certain funds. He explained how government had taken responsibility for these funds, leading to the establishment of the DPE with the specific mandate of disbursing these funds to the designated beneficiaries. Effective communication and coordination among the relevant departments was essential to ensure the successful execution of this mandate. He further alluded to the Department's challenges, particularly in addressing weaknesses and implementing necessary improvements.

He mentioned the proactive role of the Committee throughout the year, and said their involvement extended beyond reviewing action plans. He noted that the Committee had actively collaborated with the institutions to enhance their reporting and overall performance. He underscored the Committee's ongoing commitment to identifying weaknesses and proposing areas for improvement, even in cases where the Department had been slow to implement the recommended changes.

He stressed the importance of thorough scrutiny and credibility checks in the Department's process of implementing the Committee's recommendations, and its commitment to addressing the raised concerns, as there was a need for continuous improvement to meet the required standards. He acknowledged the significance of the Committee's past recommendations and their impact on promoting positive changes within the Department.

Mr Thabethe responded to the inquiries regarding due diligence, clarifying the Department's reliance on certain sources for funding timelines. The Department had to take proactive steps in reevaluating positions based on the urgency of certain recommendations. He emphasised the significance of identifying and addressing weaknesses throughout the year, not just at the year's end, to ensure continual progress and improvement.

He said the existence of vacancies did not influence the achievement of targets, but also on the effectiveness of operational strategies. There had to be a responsive approach to challenges and constant monitoring to ensure effective performance. He highlighted the complexities in evaluating the performance of certain entities and the need for a comprehensive understanding of their operating context.

He underscored the significance of collective responsibility in ensuring the effective implementation of recommendations. All stakeholders had a role in addressing weaknesses and continuously striving for improvement. He concluded by stressing the need for active engagement and commitment to drive positive change within the Department and its associated entities.

Mr Thami Zikode, Caretaking Head: Specialised Audits, AGSA, stressed the critical importance of robust record-keeping in financial reporting. He highlighted the pivotal role of thorough documentation in supporting the integrity and reliability of financial statements, thereby ensuring accurate and dependable audit outcomes. He underlined the significance of preventive controls in the financial environment, and their role in ensuring that only well-supported and legitimate transactions found their way into the financial records. It was the role of preventative controls to identify and address potential issues before they became significant problems during audits.

He suggested that a comprehensive discussion and analysis of the challenges faced in maintaining accurate financial records would be beneficial for the Committee. He proposed an open dialogue about the specific challenges encountered, the associated costs, and the steps needed to address these challenges effectively. There was a need for continuous evaluation and improvement by implementing robust projection plans. He underscored the importance of proactive measures and a forward-looking approach to prevent similar challenges from arising in the future.

He said open discussions within the Committee would be important to understand the challenges faced by different entities. This understanding was crucial for estimating the costs associated with these challenges and developing effective solutions. Robust record-keeping was essential to ensure the credibility and accuracy of financial statements. Without well-documented financial records, audits could be severely compromised. Preventative controls were critical in ensuring that only legitimate transactions were recorded in financial statements.

He said turnaround plans had to be credible and supported by actionable steps and strategies. He suggested that a credible plan should demonstrate how entities planned to increase revenue and improve their financial position. Accountability within management was important, and should be maintained, especially regarding job descriptions and responsibilities, because if job descriptions were not met, individuals could not be held accountable.

Mr Zikode also stressed the critical role of management in implementing controls. If management fails to implement necessary controls, it could result in audit findings and adverse outcomes. He expressed concern over entities' non-submission of financial statements and said timely submission was essential to maintain transparency and accountability. He also referred to the importance of effective decision-making processes at the board level, and recommended improved alignment with the ownership or government department.

In response to the question about the shareholder compacts, he said the status of shareholder compacts was essential, and the lack of their existence or adherence could impact an entity's performance and accountability. He also highlighted the significance of compliance with supply chain management (SCM) policies for government entities, noting that non-compliance could lead to challenges in achieving predetermined objectives. He said that when auditing government entities, they were not treated as a consolidated audit -- each entity's audit results were assessed individually. Accountability was not solely about whether entities were performing, but also about how they were achieving their objectives, indicating a need to translate objectives into meaningful actions and results.

Follow-up questions

Mr Cachalia asked for the AG's opinion on the impact of the reporting quality, which, of course, influenced oversight and the evaluations completed by the AGSA for this financial year compared to the previous reporting year. He inquired whether the reporting had shown signs of improvement or deterioration over time.

Mr F Essack (DA) asked about the material irregularities within the municipalities. Had any concrete actions been taken to hold the responsible parties accountable, and how many municipalities in the current financial year had received irregular expenditure notices?

The Chairperson raised an important question concerning the appreciation of the post-state capture environment during the audit process. He said that entities like Alexkor, Denel and Eskom had previously been associated with corruption during the state capture period, and asked whether the AG had considered the pressure and challenges faced by these entities in their efforts to turn around and address past issues. He also mentioned the potential risks involved if the entities failed to submit reports, possibly leading to liquidation. Given the context and background of the entities ' previous challenges, he requested clarification on whether the AG had acknowledged these complex dynamics during the auditing process.

AGSA's response

Responding to the Chairperson, Ms Singo said that some institutions had shown improvements in their performance, as evident when comparing the current outcomes to the previous ones. Regarding the challenge of state capture, she said it was important to understand the underlying governance failures within these institutions. There was a need to address these governance challenges through effective plans and measures to ensure improvement. She also noted the significance of preventive controls in the audit process, and acknowledged that there was still room for improvement in many entities. She also mentioned the need to consider the oversight measures undertaken by the Department, and the implementation of recommendations from previous audits.

Mr Essack clarified his earlier question, emphasising his concern about the lack of effective consequence management resulting from the increasing irregular expenditure, which had risen to approximately R1.874 billion. He expressed suspicion about potential accounting manipulations that might be masking irregularities, and sought clarification on this discrepancy between the seemingly decent reports and the underlying irregularities.

Mr Thabethe clarified that the issue raised was about entities recognising profits based on inflated asset values, which could create accounting gains and make their financial reports appear favourable. While an irregular expenditure of R1.1 billion had been mentioned, they had identified R3.8 million, and the rest was classified as cooperative irregular expenditure. The challenge was that, even though they had identified these irregularities, the entities had not yet taken the necessary action or initiated consequence management to address the issues.

Ms. Singo concluded her remarks by emphasising the importance of monitoring the implementation of the turnaround plan and other key recommendations to address the challenges faced by the entities. She expressed her belief that with effective monitoring, there would be improvements in achieving the desired outcomes and outputs.

The meeting was adjourned, and when it resumed, the Chairperson warmly welcomed the DPE and Deputy Minister, Mr Obed Bapela.

DPE's 2022/23 annual performance report

Deputy Minister Bapela said the report would outline the findings from the oversight of all state entities and the Department. He expressed his readiness to engage with the presentations and answer any questions that may arise during the session.

The presentation revolved around the DPE's role in overseeing key performance indicators. The Department acknowledged the importance of achieving unqualified audit opinions, avoiding material compliance issues, meeting specific performance and socio-economic targets, and enhancing operational performance.

The presentation discussed the establishment of a chief financial officers' forum to promote best practices among entities and address performance gaps. It highlighted the Department's commitment to improving financial information and supporting entities to fulfil their mandates effectively. It outlined the need for oversight and support to enhance overall performance. It tackled aspects such as implementing a budget reduction strategy and providing post-identification support to uphold the Department's mandate.

(Please see attached presentation for details)

Deputy Minister Bapela expressed his gratitude for the presentation, and referred to two key points from the previous session. He acknowledged the importance of addressing underlying issues. He commended the efforts of the team in identifying crucial aspects within Transnet, emphasising the need to consider their recommendations. He underscored the importance of information communication technology (ICT) in contributing to economic growth and fostering inclusivity, especially concerning empowering women. He further stressed the significance of fostering social collaboration and corporate engagement to drive progress.

Discussion

Mr Gumede inquired about the reasons behind the numerous outstanding bills and vacancies, suggesting that these issues might hinder the Department's progress. It was important to address such problems promptly and ensure that targets were met. He also commented that recommendations had been made in the past to avoid late submissions and to monitor progress effectively, but these recommendations seemed not to have been fully implemented. He stressed the need to assess the Department's progress and avoid realising critical issues too late.

He elaborated on the persistent challenges in certain entities, referring to specific issues still impacting their functioning. He raised concerns about elements within the system that were still not working effectively, despite efforts made to improve the situation. He sought clarification on whether certain measures could be taken to address these issues comprehensively and prevent their recurrence. He said there was a need for clear communication within the Department, expressing the importance of providing thorough explanations to avoid any misunderstandings or misinterpretations. He also questioned the circumstances surrounding certain payments and the decision-making process within the DPE. He stressed the importance of having well-trained and knowledgeable staff in critical roles, suggesting that any gaps in expertise could potentially lead to avoidable mistakes.

Mr Cachalia pointed out the irony that some entities, such as Transnet, seemed to have functioned better during the height of state capture than they currently did. He inquired about the status of the social compact within the Department, and whether there were plans to increase its participation. He asked about the progress in developing a roadmap, and whether this was a key performance indicator (KPI) for the DPE. He inquired about those responsible and the repercussions associated with the Department's performance. He was concerned about the Department's subpar performance, which was marked at a mere 60%. Lastly, he raised the issue of entity ownership, and whether external parties held sway over them, underscoring the significance of sound governance in such scenarios.

Mr Essack sought clarification on whether the responsibility for the annual performance report not being approved had been discussed. He also asked for information on the concrete plans for infrastructure reduction, and whether these plans had been finalised. He stressed the importance of addressing corruption and ensuring accountability, particularly in light of the corruption highlighted by the Zondo Commission.

Ms Graham inquired about the inclusion of all entities in the media strategy and whether the Department rated the media before entities issued statements. She highlighted the importance of aligning KPIs with mandates for transparent reporting. She hoped for improved linkage in future reports, as mentioned by the AG in their plan for KPI revision during the current financial year.

Ms Mkhwanazi highlighted the need for an efficient ICT infrastructure with a performance-tracking solution. She inquired about the progress made in implementing this solution, and emphasised the importance of obtaining real-time data for effective oversight. She suggested the evaluation of financial and operational sustainability, and urged the Department to address any identified gaps. They mentioned the significance of monitoring service performance before the financial report, and questioned the Department's capacity to manage any potential gaps. She raised questions about the Department's strategies to align with its mandate for delivering various services and achieving economic growth, echoing the sentiments expressed by the Deputy Minister in the annual report. Lastly, she reiterated the significance of addressing the issue of outstanding financial statements, and encouraged the Department to provide further insight into its plans for addressing this matter.

She stressed the importance of addressing the outstanding financial statements, and urged the Department to provide clarity on any accrued debts. There was a need for effective implementation management and controls to monitor progress, ensuring the operational model's alignment with oversight.

She questioned the Department's plan for managing any identified debts and sought reassurance on its strategic approach to this issue. It was important to use tools, such as the appendix, for monitoring the Department's performance and progress in implementing recommendations from previous reports. She expressed a desire for comprehensive follow-up reports to facilitate effective oversight and to ensure that any identified areas of concern were adequately addressed.

The Chairperson inquired about the Department's improvements in the recruitment and appointment of boards and executives, particularly regarding the vetting process and its effectiveness. He expressed concern about the information shared publicly, and emphasised the need for transparency in the vetting process.

He referred to the impact of the Department's lack of capacity due to high vacancies. He stressed the importance of addressing the priority issues, saying there should be a clear plan of action and effective management of the Department's responsibilities. He also stressed the significance of building trust and confidence, especially in the context of public perception and the Department's image.

He sought assurance on the progress and development plans related to the sensitive issue of housing, urging the Department to ensure the efficient distribution of the budget to the intended beneficiaries. His comments were focused on the need for transparency, effective management, and responsible allocation of resources to achieve the Department's objectives.

Deputy Minister Bapela clarified the process and timelines involved in the appointment of chief executive officers (CEOs) and board members, emphasising the importance of accountability and adherence to set procedures. He highlighted the significance of monthly meetings and reviews to monitor performance and ensure accountability within the Department. There was also a need for compliance with legislation and standards to avoid material findings during audits.

Regarding Telkom shares, he acknowledged the challenges in identifying the beneficiaries and confirmed that the Department had taken the necessary steps to resolve the issue. He gave an assurance that the Department had completed the process of identifying the rightful beneficiaries and would proceed with the payment accordingly. His comprehensive responses reflected the Department's commitment to transparency, accountability, and efficient governance in addressing the various concerns raised during the meeting.

Adv Melanchton Makobe, Deputy Director-General (DDG): State-Owned Companies Governance Assurance and Performance, DPE, provided updates on the latest developments, specifically addressing the completion of the annual financial statements and the ongoing restructuring efforts. He explained that challenges were encountered during the audit process, which had led to a request for an extension to finalise the financial statements. However, he assured the Committee that the Department was working closely to ensure the successful completion of these processes.

He referred to the progress made in the implementation of the Eskom restructuring plan, indicating the significant advancements achieved, particularly in restructuring the transmission company. Key milestones included the approval of trading licences and the imminent appointment of the transmission board. He pointed out the importance of the Electricity Regulation Bill in facilitating the operation of the transmission system operator. Also, he discussed the development of the distribution subsidiary, elaborating on the incorporation and engagement processes currently underway.

He provided insights into Eskom's performance improvement plan, outlining the steps taken to achieve specific milestones, such as securing approvals from the National Treasury. He expressed optimism about the institution's growing functionality and productivity, signalling positive progress in implementing reforms and the resuscitation of critical processes.

Ms Jackie Molisane, Acting Director General, DPE, acknowledged the importance of timely completion of financial statements, while also recognising the need to give the auditors adequate time and space to carry out their work effectively. She pointed out the significance of maintaining good audit outcomes for SoCs to enable them to raise funds, and stressed the need to address any identified audit findings. Monitoring and tracking the audit outcomes of all SoCs was essential to ensure they adhered to desired standards.

She referred to the challenges faced by some entities in completing audits due to financial constraints, which hindered their ability to pay for audit services. Adequate funding for audits was crucial for the completion of financial statements. She compared this situation to a "chicken and egg" scenario, where the lack of funds for audits led to delayed financial statement completion, thus creating a challenging cycle for the organisations involved.

Ms Molisane reiterated the importance of timely completion of financial statements for the purpose of assessing the financial strength of the entities. She acknowledged the challenges some organisations face, such as the need for financial recovery. She emphasised the significance of providing necessary support and time for management to address any audit findings and policy outcomes. There was a need to avoid delays and inefficiencies in the use of allocated funds, particularly in light of the relief packages provided to these entities. She underscored the importance of improving internal controls and aligning with audit outcomes to ensure the financial stability of these organisations. There was a need for a careful balance in directing resources towards various socio-economic priorities, acknowledging the competing demands on the available funding.

Deputy Minister Bapela referred to the publication by the Department of Public Enterprises, highlighting the steps taken to address the instances of corruption uncovered by the Zondo Commission, and to ensure justice prevailed. He emphasised the importance of initiating thorough investigations and implementing systems to prevent such occurrences across government departments. He acknowledged the presence of a pervasive sense of fear among those who might be implicated, even if they had not yet been exposed. He recognised the challenge of addressing these issues and the potential repercussions for the individuals involved. There was a need for caution and further investigations before making any definitive statements about the situation. He also touched on the topic of financial statements, suggesting that there might be distinct differences between various reports or documents.

He said the Department was working diligently to conform to the timelines set for various initiatives.

He noted the volatility of the timber market, which fluctuated like other commodities, but he expected it to stabilise in the coming years. This stability would allow the government to benefit financially and support various development initiatives.

Minister Bapela commented that Eskom was performing well in the markets, primarily due to the volume of electricity it provides. He said productivity improvements were a priority and a way to maximise the benefits for the country's economic development. He also referred to a discussion about the presidential economic summit, and indicated that various stakeholders were involved in the ongoing dialogue to address critical issues and provide solutions.

Chairperson’s closing remarks

In his closing remarks, the Chairperson conveyed a thought-provoking message. He delved into the effects of capitalism on society, shedding light on how it perpetuated oppression, particularly in terms of class and gender disparities. He underscored the importance of comprehending and addressing the challenges posed by capitalism, recognising it as a significant driver of societal inequalities. He said it may have been intended differently, but this seemed to be the lasting impact of colonisation on present-day socio-economic conditions. It served as a reminder of the historical context that had contributed to existing disparities.

His closing statement called for a profound exploration of the implications of capitalism and its role in perpetuating societal injustices. It advocated for a critical assessment of the structures and systems that uphold these disparities, with a clear call to action to work collectively towards constructing a more equitable and just society. The phrase "learn to hate capitalism" encapsulated the urgency to scrutinise and transform these systems to foster a fairer and more inclusive society.

The meeting was adjourned.