Implementation of Committee recommendations; SA tourism Q3 & 4 2022/23 Performance; with Minister

Meeting report

Introductory Remarks by the Chairperson
The Chairperson stated lots of things happened while the Parliament was in recess. The Committee received reports from whistleblowers, and the Members decided not to call for a special meeting of the Portfolio Committee. Communication was ongoing between the Chairperson and the whip of the Committee on these matters. She hoped that the Minister would brief the Committee on the suspension of executive members of the entity by the SA Tourism (SAT) Board while they receive full salaries for doing nothing, and inform the Members about where the interim Board the powers to execute such suspensions, without authority to do that. In addition, she said that the Minister made pronouncements on important events, including that of Trevor Noah. The whistleblower informed the Committee that Trevor Noah’s five-minute video would cost the taxpayers R33 million. In the previous Committee meeting, Members raised questions about matters pertaining to rugby, but the Department indicated that it was not involved in that. So, those were the things the Committee was looking for answers to.

Minister’s Remarks: Update on the Implementation of the Committee Recommendations
Minister of Tourism, Ms Patricia De Lille, on the recommendation that no further funds must be transferred to SAT until certain conditions were met, reported the targets in the SA Tourism Annual Performance Plan (APP) were revised and approved in March 2023. The reference to the 21 million visitors by 2030 is in relation to the Medium Term Strategic Framework (MTSF) which is in its final year of implementation. The MTSF captured the aspirational targets agreed to between the tourism sector and the Presidency.

The vacancies at an executive level of South African Tourism have been filled. The Minister has appointed a three-member board in terms of the Tourism Act, 2014, while the process of appointing a final board is being finalised and expected to be concluded by end October 2023, depending on Cabinet processes. Accordingly, the Board has already initiated the processes of filling vacancies at executive level at SAT and is following due process with associated timeframes.

The Minister indicated that the Board reviewed and approved the delegation of authority, in line with South African Tourism Policy as well as Section 12 of the Tourism Act, and Section 56 of the Public Finance Management Act (PFMA) – which provide for the Board to delegate any of its powers and responsibilities in writing, while remaining ultimately accountable for such powers. The revised delegation of authority came into effect on 10 May 2023. The process of appointing the South African Board is ongoing, and nominations closed on 07 July 2023. Selection processes are scheduled to get underway in the coming weeks. Consultation with Cabinet, depending on the Cabinet Secretariat schedule, is scheduled for September/ October 2023. The appointment of the new Department representative, Ms Uveshnee Pillay, was gazetted on 22 August 2023.

Regarding the finalisation of the Tourism Policy Review, she indicated that the Green Paper on the Development and Promotion of Tourism in South Africa was approved by Cabinet on 30 August 2023 and was gazetted for public comment on 01 September 2023. The masterplan would appear before Cabinet in September 2023.

On the merger between Brand SA and SAT, she said she consulted the Minister in the Presidency, Ms Khumbudzo Ntshavheni, responsible for Brand SA. In the correspondence dated 19 July 2023, Minister Ntshavheni advised she has been granted approval to suspend the merger of the two entities. She has, however, assured that the work undertaken by Brand SA would not contradict the mandate of South African Tourism.

About the recommendation of establishing an independent Grading Council of SA, she reported the Tourism Grading Council of South Africa (TGCSA) reviewed its business model in quarter four of the 2022/2023 financial year, which the SA Tourism Board approved. This strategic document would inform the business case that would be submitted to the Minister of Tourism, through the Board, which would outline the most optimal business model for the TGCSA. It is estimated that SA Tourism would have the business case ready by quarter four of the 2023/2024 financial year. The structure of the Department would then be reviewed to include the TGCSA.

Ms Kholeka Zama was a member of the Board, who committed an act of perjury when she said that the delegation of authority taken away by the Board on 27 April 2023 was returned to the executives at South African Tourism. The Minister has, through correspondence dated 29 June 2023, to the Speaker, provided feedback to the Committee on the matter related to Ms Kholeka Zama, where a request for a recording and/or transcript relating to the allegations was sought. The Speaker has since written to the Portfolio Committee Chairperson to provide a response. No response has yet been received.

On other issues observed and stated by the Committee and responded to by the Department, the Minister reported that four spatial tourism masterplans have been completed in consultation with relevant public and private sector stakeholders, including local government. The Department has been working closely with district and local municipalities to integrate the prioritised initiatives emanating from these master plans into the relevant District Development One Plans.

Completed monitoring and evaluation reports on tourism projects and initiatives would be provided to the Committee, and future reports would be provided by the Director-General on completion. The Minister further stated tourism monitors are scheduled to undergo NQF-3-certified training. Over and above that, they would receive an additional five days of training from the South African Police Service (SAPS). This training includes crowd management, crime prevention and reporting.

Pertaining to the new business incubators programme that focuses on Women In Tourism, the Minister stated that the Department would review the impact of the programme and take a decision on whether or not to extend it to other provinces. The Business Advisory Services focusing on Women in Tourism in Limpopo and the Homestay Pilot Programme are supported with the skills, resources and opportunities to increase their chances of success, training and guidance in areas such as sales, marketing, business strategy and finance. The programme is intended to strengthen the capacity of the micro-enterprises to operate on their own, and to be sustainable and create jobs.

Lastly, the Minister stated that 2 517 unemployed youth were exposed to skills development programmes during the 2022/2023 financial year. All the nine provinces benefited from the various skills development programmes offered to the unemployed youth. Upon completing the various skills development programmes, the learners are issued certificates of certified completion by the relevant Sector Education and Training Authorities (SETAs) such as CATHSSETA and Food and Beverage SETA. The training addresses the gap identified in the Human Resource Development Strategy that the department developed due to consultation with the sector.

The service providers appointed to deliver the training also assist with placing the learners with various employers in the tourism sector. Some learners find permanent placement at the end of the skills development programmes. The programmes are impactful since they provide new skills to the youth and increase their chances of employment in the Tourism and Hospitality Sector.

SAT Briefing on the Third and Fourth Quarter Performance Reports for the 2022/23 Financial Year
Ms Nomasonto Ndlovu, Chief Operating Officer, focused her presentation on the five programmes of the entity: corporate support, business enablement, leisure tourism marketing, business events, and tourist experience.

Corporate Support Programme
She highlighted that 100% of the valid audit recommendations were implemented through an intensified focus on closing the audit recommendations. The 2022/23 financial year risk maturity assessment was conducted through extensive engagement with Risk Champions. The planned deliverables for the reporting period arising from the Risk Management Maturity Assessment 2022/23 financial year were implemented. There has been continuous monitoring of the internal control environment, which resulted in the payment of 100% compliant invoices within 30 days from the date of receipt. The automation of business processes progressed with the go-live of the Total Quality in Tourism (TQiT) system, with phase two enhancements underway; the management of requisitions and the management of purchase orders in the DigiTech environment; the automation of the Global Hosting Toolkit; the launch of SA Specialist, and the go-live of the domestic campaigns. Employment Equity targets were exceeded for the percentage of women in SA Tourism, women in senior and top management positions, and maintaining at least 60% black people across all occupational levels. The entity did not meet the target of two percent of people with disabilities. Mitigating measures have been identified for execution in the new fiscal. The disability awareness plan would be enhanced with more frequent communication inclusive of the additional list of disabilities added by the Department of Labour. South African Tourism would partner with disability organisations and recruitment agencies, with a specific mandate to recruit and place persons with disabilities.

Business Enablement Programme
Ms Ndlovu reported that South African Tourism (SAT) conducted its annual corporate reputation index and exceeded its projected survey score of 70.24 with a result of 74.65. The score has been attributed to the overall positive scores across the four key pillars of corporate brand, namely: Responsiveness, Support, Partnership Formation and Communication. Significant progress was recorded on the execution of the annual roadmap of the Integrated Digital and Analytics Operating Framework through collaboration between business units and digital operating teams. The year-two roadmap of the Integrated Digital and Analytics Operating Framework was developed and approved for implementation in the new fiscal term.

Leisure Tourism Marketing Programme
The Committee was informed the implementation of the Global Brand Campaign progressed well. The Global Brand Campaign Year-Two Roadmap was developed and approved, which would be executed in the new fiscal year. The milestones of the Integrated Brand and Marketing Strategy were executed as planned.

The Year-Two Roadmap for the 2023/24 financial year of the Integrated Brand and Marketing Strategy was developed and approved. One global brand activation was executed. The implementation of the Global Advocacy Programme proceeded through travel barrier removal communications. The implementation of the strategic events calendar has always been on content management. The Easter Campaign was executed in the domestic market. The West Africa Easter Campaign and the Central, East and Land Summer Campaigns were implemented in Africa. All international campaigns were successfully executed in market.

Business Events Programme
Ms Ndlovu stated that SA Tourism successfully implemented its Domestic and Global Business to Business Campaigns. The bidding pipeline was increased through the submission of 16 bids to host international events. Meetings Africa was a huge success, held from 27 February to 01 March 2023, at the Sandton Convention Centre. Two national business events were hosted: the Conservation Symposium from 30 October to 05 November 2022 in the South Coast of KwaZulu-Natal, and the Girls and Bafana Friendly Society National Conference from 17-19 February 2023 in Umtata, Eastern Cape, and it is part of the drive to host business events in Villages, Townships and Small Dorpies (VTSD). One national business event was held in Umtata, Eastern Cape, from 17-19 February 2023 to ensure geographic spread of business tourism in villages, townships and small dorpies.

Tourist Experience Programme
The grading business model and Tourism Grading Council of South Africa (TGCSA) value propositions were implemented through the TGCSA brand campaign development. The new brand campaign was approved. The Business Model Review was concluded and reviewed. The target of 5 355 quality-assured products only reached 4 959, as the programme is voluntary. Measures have been identified for execution in the new fiscal to drive a better performance result for this key performance indicator. These measures include a new pilot programme, a sales programme, the supply side audit, and an increase in assessors for evaluation. The planned deliverables for the Welcome Programme were successfully implemented, including the completion of the MoU with the Border Management Agency, the Meetings Africa welcome activation at the Oliver Reginald Tambo International Airport (ORTIA), and the Mega Familiarisation activation at ORTIA. In relation to the Global Trade Re-Imagined Programme, SA Tourism promoted cruise tourism through its participation at the SeaTrade Cruise Global Event, trade capacitation workshops and several route development initiatives. For the 2023/24 financial year, the pilot programme development, the sales programme, the supply side audit, and an increase in assessors for evaluation would be executed to meet the annual target.

(See presentation for more details, including tables and graphs representing budget allocation and expenditure)

Discussion

Deliberations on the Update on the Implementation of the Committee Recommendations Tabled in the 2023 Vote 38 Budget Report

The Chairperson sought clarity on the appointment of the acting CFO. She wanted to understand why it was her problem to get recordings regarding the investigation on Ms Zama because she was not the one doing the investigation. Information could be obtained on the Hansard, which is for public consumption. She said that no letter had been received from the Speaker regarding the matter. PMG has some recordings of all these issues. It would not be difficult for the Minister to get this information unless she was doing this intentionally.

Minister De Lille said whistleblowers should be protected on the Trevor Noah matter. What they said should be investigated because it appeared they did not give the Committee the full story. The whistleblowers did not tell the Committee that the job was funded by the private sector, not government. She said that the CEO of TBCSA could be contacted for a full report on the issue. The report could be obtained from the TBCSA. She also said she would take advice from the Committee Chairperson about the Hansard/PMG information. The Durban meeting minutes were unavailable, but the Hansard would be checked.

In her opening remarks, Ms S Maneli (ANC) recounted that the Chairperson alluded to certain things the Minister would appraise the Committee on. But, in her report, the Minister did not cover those items like the suspension of executives of the entity. The Chairperson also mentioned the appointment of the Board. The Committee agreed the new Board would be responsible for filling vacancies, but not the current interim Board that has started advertising the posts. Concerning the matter of Ms Kholeka Zama and what the Minister said on the matter, she wanted to know if this meant that the Committee made up or fabricated what Ms Zama stated, even though the Committee has received a lot of correspondence on the issue. She also indicated the Committee was very clear on what it asked for in programme three. It asked for figures, not the narrative.

Minister De Lille said that the Department should be given enough time to respond to issues raised by the Chairperson of the Committee during her opening remarks.

Mr A Matumba (EFF) remarked that Ms Zama committed an act of perjury. The Minister should take action. No investigation is needed and a decision has been taken already. On appointing the entity executives by the Board, he stated those positions should be left as they were until a new board has been appointed, because that was the decision of the Committee. He said that Mr Harris was never gazetted as an acting Chairperson. Whatever the three persons on the Board should take care of the work of the Board.

Ms L Makhubela-Mashele (ANC) remarked that the Minister had given Members a report on the recommendations of the Committee for the approval of budget Vote 38 as well as an update on the report on the allegations against Ms Zama, something totally separate from the Committee recommendations. She said that the letter to the Speaker did not speak about the three recommendations from the Committee. The progress that has been made to address them and the timeframes for implementing the recommendations. She said that the investigators had been brought in to see if the allegations by whistleblowers existed. She said the Tourism Act empowers the Minister to appoint one or two extra persons. The DG of the Department has to give the Committee a report on the appointment of the incoming Board, and should detail how the process of appointing the full Board would be concluded. She also sought clarity on how the acting CFO was brought back to the tourism family.

Minister De Lille stated that the Committee set three recommendations and indicated that the Minister should expedite the establishment of the new Board, work on the merger of Brand SA and SAT, and give attention to the matter of Ms Kholeka Zama. The Speaker sent the letter regarding these recommendations on 09 June 2023. The Minister stated that she wrote to the Speaker on 21 July 2023 about implementing the recommendations. She stated the process of appointing the new Board was ongoing, and she reported on her engagements with the Presidency regarding the Brand SA and SAT merger. She had responded to all three recommendations from the Committee, and on how these matters would be addressed. She needed to see if these were feasible. The request from the Chairperson for the meeting was an attempt to respond to all matters raised by the Committee, but not only on the three recommendations.

Ms S Xego (ANC) remarked that the SAT board decided to take someone from outside as an acting CFO, and that was signalling the absence of growth in the organisation. The review and approval of the delegation of authority was a recommendation of the Committee based on the wrongdoing it found. She appreciated the training given to women in the tourism industry. She then wanted to know if it was going to be rolled out nationally. She further remarked that the process of appointing a new board might take longer, and Parliament might rise before the full appointment of the Board. Regarding the training of unemployed youth, she suggested that the entity trace them and report on their progress because the service provider is only after the money, not looking at their progress.

Mr Victor Tharage, Director-General, Department of Tourism, said that lessons learnt on the Women in Tourism programme meant it would be rolled out nationally. He further stated that the process to finalise a new board's appointment was left with two months. The Department has gone through lots of CVs. After the selection Committee has sat down, it would send recommendations to the Minister.

Mr M De Freitas (DA) wanted to understand how the entity was going to deal with the notice from National Treasury, which curtails appointments. He sought clarity on the merger of Brand SA and SAT.

Mr Tharage stated a letter was received from National Treasury by all accounting authorities in the country, but he could not dwell further on the matter after the Chairperson advised him not to go into details. It was a complicated matter because Ministers were ignoring the contents of the letter.

Minister De Lille indicated that she approved the lifting of the moratorium, and she acted in accordance with the 6.1.2 recommendation so that the Board could continue with the appointments.

Mr H April (ANC) stated that he was concerned about the time for the appointment of the new Board. He sought clarity on the R33m spent on the five-minute video of Trevor Noah, saying it was similar to the Tottenham Hotspurs sponsorship saga. He asked for the provincial breakdown of the 2 517 unemployed youth that received training.

Mr Tharage said that a written response on the breakdown per province on the training of unemployed 2 517 youth would be sent to the Committee.

Ms M Gomba (ANC) remarked that when the Committee made recommendations, it used legislation. She said that the Committee would not adopt the recommendations from the Minister while it has not satisfied itself with the report from the Minister. She also applauded the Minister for paying attention to the master plans in programme three. The City of Johannesburg has recorded achievements in master plans. She also expressed appreciation for the progress regarding Tourism Safety Monitors, saying that the NQF-3 certified training was a recognised level of education. And it was responding to crime and violence in the tourism sector. She further sought clarity on reasons for the suspension of the officials of the entity by the Board.

Ms H Ismail (DA) wanted to know how many vacancies at executive level would be filled. She also asked about the people sitting on the panel committee for selection.

Mr Tharage said that he was the Chairperson of the selection committee.

Minister De Lille said she would seek advice on the number of executive positions to fill.

The Chairperson stated that the Committee had received legal advice on the three board members. The three members have been appointed to manage the affairs of the Board until a new board has been established. The SAT did not have an interim board. The Tourism Act has not envisaged the existence of an acting board. That was the legal opinion. She said that the Committee took a decision that three members should not continue to appoint people until there was a new board. That point was never mentioned in the report from the Minister. The Act was explicit on who is to appoint the managers of the entity. The contravention of the Act has become the order of the day within the SAT.

Regarding the legal advice, Minister De Lille stated that there are different interpretations of the Act. For instance, the EFF has indicated that there was no mention of an interim in the Act. The power to appoint one or two people to the Board is the responsibility of the Minister. She informed Members that she was following the Act to the letter. Maybe, there was a possible interpretive issue on the matter. 

Ms Gomba said that, had the Minister implemented the recommendations from the beginning, the Committee would not be where it was. Ongoing processes should not be the answer given to the Committee. Her concern was that the recommendations would not be implemented at the right time. She pointed out there has been no report on the audit outcomes of the last financial year.

Mr Tharage said he knows the audit outcomes but has not shared them with colleagues. The heads of units know the outcomes relevant to their units. The audit outcomes could change should material findings come to light. The Department has implemented 100% of all the things that came from material findings.

Mr April pointed out that no one in the private sector was going to give you R33m for free. The money comes from the SA taxpayers. One could not be quiet about it. It looked like someone was protected from somewhere.

Minister De Lille said that the details about the Trevor Noah video could be obtained from the TBCSA, and the report could be brought to the Committee because she knew what she said in the meeting she had with the TBCSA.

The Chairperson said that SA citizens have access to the Committee's contact details and have the right to be whistleblowers. The Minister’s response to the matter of Ms Zama was not satisfactory to the Committee. The Minister did not even engage with Ms Zama. She went on to say that it was known that two people take decisions at SAT. It could be that the third one is sidelined. One of the three members of the SAT prevented one other member from calling the Chairperson of the Committee. She said that a lawsuit was on the way and those who have suspended people have to pay. There would be litigation against the SAT.

Minister De Lille said she addressed the litigation matter with the SAT executives some weeks ago. They were not coming to her with issues. They are sowing divisions between the Minister and the Committee Chairperson and also between the Minister and the Board. She said it was the first time she heard about some of the matters from the Chairperson and Committee Members. She stated she had engaged them, and that she was building a relationship with the Committee Chairperson, but they were choosing to approach the Committee Chairperson directly instead of talking with her first. She told them to stop sowing divisions within the Board as well. She was open to discussing anything with the SAT executives. She also said she was never contacted on the contracts with Siya Kolisi and South African Rugby Union (SARU). The Sports Minister was also not consulted. Anybody has the right to litigate.

Ms Makhubela-Mashele remarked that she was getting lost on the reports of whistleblowers, and asked the Committee not to talk about whistleblower reports. The Committee should only be kept abreast of the reports from whistleblowers.

The Chairperson stated that if a whistleblower was comfortable speaking with one Member of the Committee, then that Member has the right to raise that in the Committee while the whistleblower is protected.

Mr Matumba wanted to find out if the Committee should continue to have Ms Zama in the meeting and allow her to address it without being subjected to consequence management. He asked that she should excuse herself from the meeting.

Ms Gomba wanted to know if the Committee could continue to have the DG in the meeting without receiving the audit outcomes. She wanted to understand how the Committee was going to re-consider the report when the Committee has not received the audit outcomes of 2022/23.

Ms Xego asked if the Committee could not wait for the report of the Minister regarding the case of Ms Zama.

Ms Makhubela-Mashele said the Committee wanted a full report on the allegations concerning Ms Zama. She should be part of the meeting until the Committee has received the full report.

Ms Gomba said that the matter should be finalised first. The Committee needed to be furnished with the outcome of the investigation.

Ms Maneli stated Ms Zama committed perjury in terms of the report. That was the decision of the meeting. The matter should have been discussed at the beginning of the meeting. What she committed was no longer an allegation.

Mr April suggested that she should leave the meeting.

Mr Matumba said that she must excuse herself from the meeting because the report from Parliament was about her.

Ms Makhubela-Mashele did not support the move, saying she must attend the meetings until her matter was concluded and brought to the attention of the Committee.

The Chairperson reminded the Members about the decisions of the Committee, because it found her to have acted wrongly. This matter was brought to the attention of the Minister, who has still been investigating the case. Ms Zama lied to Parliament. She stands accused on the side of the Minister but the Committee has found her guilty. She then asked Ms Zama to leave the Committee and be excused until the Minister concluded her matter.

Minister De Lille said that she was not lacking in trying to find the recordings of the Durban meeting. She explained that she had tried to get information from the Committee secretary. If the SAT has recordings, then they should be given to her so that she could conclude the case of Ms Zama. She said that she was not dragging her feet on this matter.

The Chairperson said that the meeting in Durban was recorded using the facilities of the SAT. What Mr Harris said in the Portfolio Committee meeting was documented in the Hansard. She said the audit outcomes would be presented to the Committee when the annual report is presented.

Ms Nomasonto Ndlovu, Acting CEO of SAT, responding to the concerns about SARU and Siya Kolisi, explained the SAT was not partnering with the Rugby World Cup. It was only looking at tactical and media opportunities, seeing that SA is a defending champion. The SAT would continue to look for other media opportunities. The Twickenham game was for media opportunities. On the Siya Kolisi matter, she stated the SAT was looking at South Africans doing exceptional things around the world. The SAT was looking at how it could work with exceptional individuals like Siya Kolisi. The one-year contract with Siya Kolisi would go beyond the World Cup. He is the brand ambassador.

Mr April enquired about the value of the contract.

Ms Ndlovu stated that it was R4.5m.

Deliberations with the SAT
The Chairperson stated that when they went on the study tour in China, they discovered that safari is their strongest point, compared to South Africa, which is very weak. Safari tourism is something that the Department needs to look into. South Africa is rich in safari, but it needs to be leveraged to contribute to the country's GDP.

Mr April wanted to know why there was an interim CFO in the entity, as he had never heard of that.

Mr Tim Harris, SAT Board Chairperson, said that an interim CFO was for a short-term contract because her contract would expire at the beginning of 2024. An acting CFO would be a person who is employed but acting in an additional capacity.

The Chairperson stated there was no difference between an acting CFO and an interim CFO. She said that she found it unacceptable that the entity took someone from outside to act in that position, whereas she left the entity for her own reasons. She did not appoint herself to that position. The position has remained vacant, and the Board decided to leave out the capacity that is within the entity and took someone from outside, thereby squandering the resources of the entity.
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Ms Gomba stated that a person who was going to account for the finances of the entity was needed. Key positions were not given the attention they deserved. For instance, there is an acting CEO and now there is an interim CFO.

Mr Matumba pointed out that they were doing in government they were guided by the law in everything. The Committee needed to be told what was going to be done to correct an incorrect decision. The Committee was not happy with the arrangement of an interim CFO. The appointment of an interim CFO was a motion of no confidence in the capacity within the entity, seeing it as incompetent. He then wanted to know what was going to be done to put an acting CFO.

Mr Harris said there had been discussions about the status of the Board. The board members were taking responsibility for governing the entity in line with the Act. That was how the decision was taken. The Board had to look at the recommendations from the selection committee in filling the vacancies.

The Chairperson wanted to know if Mr Harris was aware that the interim CFO left the Tourism Department when she was still under investigation.

Mr Harris said that the selection committee had applied its mind to what was given to it, and he promised to check the records.

Ms Gomba asked how many years or months the interim CFO was away from the entity.

Mr Harris stated that she was away from January 2023.

The Chairperson asked the DG if he was aware of the investigation against the interim CFO.

The DG said that he was not aware of it.

The Chairperson then asked the interim CFO why she left the entity.

Ms Nombulelo Guliwe, the interim CFO, stated she left the entity towards the end of November 2022 because she was looking for opportunities. There was no alignment between her and where the organisation was going. She said she was not getting the necessary support and was unaware of any investigation against her.

The Chairperson asked why she accepted the offer.

Ms Guliwe stated that she wanted to work with independent people who like to listen to both sides of the story and not be compromised.

Mr April asked the interim CFO to take the Portfolio Committee into confidence about the things that made her uncomfortable.

Ms Gomba indicated that she knew the interim CFO because she has been reporting to the Portfolio Committee. She indicated that she did not think it was fair to interrogate the person because her experience was going to assist the Department.

Mr Matumba pointed out that Mr Harris has often been asked if he was aware of the investigation against the interim CFO. He then wanted to know if she was aware she was being investigated.

The Chairperson stated that the Committee would summon the agency that recruited Ms Guliwe to account on the matter so that it would be able to respond to the difficult questions. She remarked that the Board had 28 meetings in total, which contravened the Tourism Act. She asked how the Board was compensated for the meetings. She also sought clarity on under-spending on COE; clarity on over-spending on goods and services; if the TBCSA was supposed to pay levies to the SAT and what the implications were; and who was monitoring the media posts of Siya Kolisi to ensure Visit SA gets value for money; and an explanation on why there were no laws regarding the grading of the Taj Hotel.

Ms Ndlovu indicated that the board meetings happened in the last two quarters of the year. The board members were compensated for the sittings in line with the board rates. She stated that the entity has a system to track the ROI of the collaboration with Siya Kolisi. Reports would be presented quarterly as the work progresses. The entity has been able to use his face posted on his Instagram account or Facebook page. There are mechanisms in place to report to the Board and the Portfolio Committee. An open-source content has been agreed with him on how he could visit his favourite places in SA. She also indicated the Taj Hotel was not graded and had no stars. Grading is voluntary. National Treasury has issued a circular that government departments have to use graded institutions. She stated that many hotels, especially big brands, refuse to be graded.

Ms Guliwe stated that board members have not yet been paid but have submitted invoices. The invoices have not been processed yet. The payment of paying board members was not done through normal processes. The company secretary gets invoices, signs them off and then hands them over to the payroll manager. She also stated that under-spending on COE was linked to how they budget for the employees, while the key reason for over-spending on corporate support was around non-cash items, depreciation, etc. On programme five, she said that the entity invested at year-end in a programme the supplier has a database. About the TOMSA Levy, she said that the AG suggested remedial actions based on the MoU. The TOMSA money is due to the SAT when the TBCSA has approved collection. The SAT was allowed to make decisions on collaborative funds. In the new MoU, the SAT is allowed only to advise.

Ms Nomzamo Bhengu, board support executive, explained that the 28 meetings were for the 2021/22 financial period. For the current Board, there have been no payments or remuneration for the members. One invoice is related to travel and accommodation and is that of Mr Mntambo.

Ms Gomba asked if there has been correspondence between the entity and National Treasury for concurrence to spend regarding over-spending by 123% on programme three. She also asked who funded the Development Bank of Southern Africa (DBSA) for the completion of the abandoned projects, enquired how oversight was done on money spent, and asked how the audit process worked.

Ms Guliwe explained the overspending was linked to surplus retention. After the audit period, the entity declared surplus to National Treasury and asked if it could be used for other projects. That process has been started already. The funds cannot be retained without approval from National Treasury. Commitment for the funds has to be proven.

Mr April remarked that the figures on employment equity were disappointing. There are more than 100 foreign nationals, and this showed a deliberate intention not to employ local South Africans. He remarked that Siya Kolisi is a friend of Ms Bronwen Auret, who is responsible for marketing within the entity.

Ms Ndlovu stated that the entity was not hiring at the moment. When the gates of recruitment have re-opened, employment equity matters would be prioritised. The entity has coloured employees.

Ms Bronwen Auret, Chief Quality Assurance Officer/Acting Chief Marketing Officer, said she has no personal friendship with Siya Kolisi.

Mr Matumba suggested that it would be better for the Committee to be given percentages on employment equity. He stated that the TOMSA Levy, according to the MoU, was collecting the money and then transfer it directly to the SAT. He then wanted to know if this was how it was working in the Trevor Noah project, and asked how the money was being spread. He wanted to know if the money came straight from the TOMSA levy or if it was coming from the institution itself.

Ms Guliwe explained that the SAT has the right to receive the money and do things for the TBCSA. The only thing that needed to be fixed was the matter involving the contract.

Ms Gomba remarked that something was being hidden concerning the invoices that had not been received from the board members.

Mr Matumba added that the story of the invoices was not clear. He then proposed that the Committee get a report on how much was spent on people appointed to take care of the matters of the Board.

The Chairperson wanted to understand the implications regarding the AG findings because there were 28 board meetings instead of the nine meetings that were supposed to take place every year.

Ms Guliwe said there had been an overlap with the Board appointed after August 2022, which was why the meetings were more than four. That process has gone through an audit and has not seen the audit findings because they could have been part of the audit that ended end of July 2023. She said she had not seen the management report or anything related to the matter in the management report.

Closing Remarks by the Chairperson

The Chairperson stated that the Committee has resolved that Ms Zama should not attend Committee meetings until the Minister of Tourism has cleared her matter. The Minister would be provided with the recordings of the Durban meeting. She said that she would also be writing a letter to the Speaker of the Parliament and Leader of Government Business about the legal opinion that the Committee received of the three individuals of the SAT Board. The business of selecting a fully-fledged board would be concluded by the end of October 2023. She further indicated that the appointment of the interim CFO was out of order because the ATC reports referred to permanent appointments. The Committee was satisfied that Ms Bronwen Auret made it clear that she had no personal relationship with Siya Kolisi but she was only there to assist him with tourism activities.

The Chairperson also emphasised the need to have a regulation from Parliament, which enforces grading of all establishments. Concerning the R33m TOMSA levy/TBCSA matter, she stated that there was no reason why the MoU was reviewed. In addition, she stated that the SAT should understand how the whistleblower system works. Whistleblowers are the same, but how systems work is different. Officials should not be vilified because tourism is the backbone of the economy and a main contributor to the GDP. She also said the Committee would make a follow-up on the audited DBSA projects. The Trevor Noah Project has not been different from the Tottenham Hotspurs deal and should not be funded with taxpayers’ money. Lastly, she stated that the Committee welcomed the report there would be no merger between Brand SA and SAT. The Committee wanted Brand SA to be accountable to the Department of Tourism to avoid duplication.

The meeting was adjourned.