Postponed: Minister’s response to allegation of irregularities in SAA sale

Meeting report

Chairperson’s opening remarks

The Chairperson explained that the meeting was being held in person, in contrast to recent virtual sessions. The reason for this shift was based on legal advice received. The nature of the meeting was clarified as investigative, centred on allegations made against the Minister of Public Enterprises. These allegations were initially communicated to the Committee by the Office of the Speaker, accompanied by an instructive letter to investigate claims made by their suspended Director-General (DG).

The Chairperson shared his initial reluctance to take on this responsibility, but stressed that legal obligations compelled them to address this matter, which was particularly pertinent to their Committee. The chronological sequence of events was outlined, starting with a written communication to the Minister containing the allegations, and seeking his written response. Subsequently, the individual who made these allegations was formally invited to present the case to the Committee in June.

Efforts to schedule a meeting with the Minister had followed, but it had been postponed multiple times, partly because the Minister claimed he had not received certain documents -- specifically, a presentation by the suspended DG. This had led to a delay beyond expectations. Ultimately, a meeting was proposed for 7 August, but the short notice and other commitments made it unfeasible.

The current meeting date was agreed upon between the Minister and his office, but last night, the Committee received a letter from the Minister citing health reasons for his inability to attend. However, he had requested an alternative meeting date, which would be coordinated through the Committee Chairperson. In response to these circumstances, the Committee decided to cancel the originally scheduled meeting and convene this session instead. This decision aimed to present the Minister's letter and collectively determine the next steps.

The Chairperson noted that there was pressure from the Speaker's Office to expedite the matter, and emphasised the need for a constructive and positive response. The ultimate objective was for the Minister to present his case, enabling the Committee to make a determination and move forward with addressing pressing national issues, such as load-shedding, concerns with DENEL, and the underperformance of state enterprises. The Chairperson urged prioritising these significant challenges over what he viewed as a relatively minor issue involving allegations from a single individual. He acknowledged the length of his explanation, but aimed to ensure that all Members, including those new to the Committee, fully understood the context and purpose of the meeting.

Discussion

Ms J Mkhwanazi (ANC) expressed her frustration with what she perceived as the Minister's evasiveness. She pointed out that the Committee had initially intended to finalise the matter after a meeting with the DG, but the Minister's office had requested a separate meeting. She believed this change in approach had led to undue delays, leaving the Committee feeling as though they were being taken for granted. She highlighted a previous postponement of the meeting, and questioned the validity of the Minister's excuse, as his office had been well-informed and involved throughout the process. She agreed with the sentiment that the matter should have been straightforward, involving meetings with the DG and the Minister, followed by a report to the Speaker.

Ms Mkhwanazi stressed the need for a detailed explanation regarding the delays before accepting the Minister's apology. She also pointed out that these delays were affecting the Committee's ability to conduct oversight, such as their cancelled oversight with South African Airways (SAA). She concluded by emphasising the importance of transparency and accountability in this matter.

Mr G Cachalia (DA) expressed his support for his fellow Committee Members' comments. He pointed out that this was the second time the Minister had postponed, with the latest cancellation being a last-minute occurrence without medical substantiation. He highlighted a contradiction between the Minister's stated health reasons for cancellation and his ability to attend a Cabinet meeting, suggesting an inconsistency in the explanations. He called for the Minister to provide a specific date for his appearance, accommodating his health needs if required. If the Minister did not comply, Mr Cachalia proposed a formal summons, underscoring the need for accountability and clarity in this matter.

Ms N Mhlongo (EFF) echoed the collective disappointment regarding the Minister's absence, emphasising the pressing need for answers to their questions. She expressed frustration that the meeting and interactions with the Minister seemed like an unproductive game of hide and seek, with the Minister evading accountability. She firmly asserted that the Minister should come to the Committee, rather than the Committee going to him. She insisted on the importance of clear communication regarding the Minister's obligation to account. She believed the Minister should cease playing games, and confront the Committee's inquiries directly. She challenged the Minister's actions, and called for a definitive date for the next meeting, stressing that the Minister must be informed that he was expected to attend and answer questions.

Ms Mhlongo questioned the Minister's fitness, pointing out the contradiction in attending a lengthy recently held Cabinet meeting while claiming to be unfit to fly. She suggested that if the Minister was genuinely ill, he should prioritise his health and possibly resign, allowing a healthier individual to take on the role. Ultimately, she underlined that the Minister's accountability to Parliament was non-negotiable, rejecting the notion of actively seeking him out, and emphasising his responsibility to appear before the Committee.

Mr N Dlamini (ANC) cautioned Members against hastily placing blame on the Minister without concrete evidence to support their suspicions. He emphasised that the Minister had stated he was unwell and claimed to have medical confirmation of his condition, and while they might question it, they lacked the necessary tools to refute it. He suggested they should avoid the easy way out of the situation, which involved blaming the Minister without substantiated facts. He noted that they had previously agreed to the delays, indicating a lack of the urgency they now claimed to have. He encouraged taking responsibility for the situation, and not continuing to cast blame and aspersion on the Minister.

However, he stressed that they should be firmer going forward and instructed the Minister to attend, emphasising that it was not negotiable. He reminded the Committee that they did not need to seek permission to summon Department representatives -- it was part of their job to be accountable to Parliament.

Mr E Buthelezi (IFP) expressed caution and an understanding that they should not comment on the Minister's health, as it was not within their jurisdiction. He acknowledged the unfortunate situation where they had been trying to address pressing matters, but had faced delays. He could foresee a scenario where they might not be able to meet with the Minister because of these delays. However, it was important for them to ensure that Department officials attended Committee meetings, and he encouraged focusing on resolving the situation rather than dwelling on unhelpful discussions.

Mr S Gumede (ANC) suggested that the Committee make it clear that the Minister's next attempt to meet with them would be the last one, and they should proceed to make a conclusive decision if he failed to attend again. He emphasised the importance of setting a firm deadline for the Minister to appear, and expressed a willingness to travel to meet him if necessary.

Mr F Essack (DA) highlighted concerns regarding the Minister's conspicuous absence from Committee proceedings, particularly in light of the extended period since the beginning of the matter. He emphasised the Committee's fundamental right to summon any individual for accountability, and recommended a proactive approach. He urged the Committee, through its Chairperson, to communicate with the Minister, requesting a firm, confirmed date for his appearance and underscoring the matter's seriousness. In the event of unsuccessful progress, he proposed informing the Speaker of Parliament to maintain transparency and accountability, stressing the Committee's duty to ensure a thorough resolution of the matter and its commitment to the South African public.

Ms T Siweya (ANC) expressed her interest in ensuring that the Committee completed its work effectively. She suggested having a conversation with the Minister to clarify his situation, and proposed that the Committee travel to meet him. She emphasised the importance of adhering to timeframes, and urged all Members to be willing to travel to attend meetings. Ms Siweya also recommended documenting their attempts to engage with the Minister, to have evidence of their efforts. She concluded by suggesting that if the Minister failed to attend, the Committee should proceed to prepare a report on the matter.

Ms S Graham (DA) acknowledged her relatively new role on the Committee, but expressed her agreement with the need for the Minister to be held accountable. She emphasised that the decision to be made should focus on the "how" and "when" the Minister would be held accountable.

Ms C Phiri (ANC) suggested giving the Minister until the following week -- specifically the week of 13 September -- to come and present himself to the Committee. She emphasised that this would allow him enough time if he genuinely could not fly. If he did not appear during that week, she proposed that they write their report. She also cautioned against unnecessary expenses, suggesting they should not travel to meet the Minister in his current condition, as it might incur unnecessary costs. Instead, they should give him a final opportunity during the second week of September, specifically the week of the 13th.

Chairperson’s closing remarks

The Chairperson concluded by stressing the importance of completing this matter urgently. He acknowledged that while the Minister had cited medical reasons, it was essential to consider this objectively. He reminded the Committee that they should have addressed this matter much earlier, and the Minister's delays had raised justifiable suspicions.

He proposed that they schedule a meeting for the first week of September, giving the Minister another chance to appear, while also remaining open to the possibility that he genuinely could not fly. He stressed the need for objectivity and credibility in their proceedings as public representatives. The Committee Secretary would work on scheduling this meeting with the Minister.

He urged Members to be patient and flexible, focusing on their objective to hold the Minister accountable.

The meeting was adjourned.