DEL Budget: Committee Report
Employment and Labour
15 July 2020
Chairperson: Ms M Dunjwa (ANC)
Meeting Summary
Video: Portfolio Committee on Employment and Labour, 15 July 2020
The Report of the Portfolio Committee on Employment and Labour on Adjusted budget Vote 31: Employment and Labour and the Revised Annual Performance Plan of the Department2020/21 was adopted with amendments, not withstanding objection from the minority.
The opposition raised a point on the reform of the labour laws in the country, such as the non-criminalisation of non-compliance with employment equity, which was met with rejection. It was emphasised such issues should be raised in debate and in the presence of the Department of Employment and Labour and the Minister.
The DA Member objected to the budget being cut on inspection and enforcement services, amendment to the recommendation and bemoaned the Public Employment Service Programme as a waste of money which never worked and should not be given more money.
Other Members objected to the playing of politics and ideological debates. Further amendments were made to the recommendation on the fast tracking of 500 occupational health and safety inspectors and departments procuring from SEEs.
It was said the Committee should be careful to provide observations and recommendations of substance. The observations and recommendations are temporary and insubstantial, and the Committee needs to highlight in the observations section the magnitude of this crisis and that the Department needs to take the proposals of Members seriously. This is a joint Committee Report and these suggestions should be entertained properly.
Meeting report
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Employment and Labour on Adjusted budget Vote 31: Employment and Labour and the Revised Annual Performance Plan of the Department2020/21
The Chairperson opened the meeting and stated that due to possible load shedding, the Committee will not go through the Report page by page. If Members have any comments on any part of the Report, they should raise such comment and just point the Committee to the relevant page without having to go through the whole document. The focus should be on the observations and recommendations.
She opened the floor for any comment on the body of the Report but there are none.
Members then moved to the observations and recommendations of the Report.
With respect to inspection and enforcement services, the Committee observed that: the number of employers inspected per year to determine compliance with employment law has been reduced from 220 692 to 188 323; percentage of non-compliant employers referred for prosecution within 30 calendar days has been revised downwards from 65% to 50%; and that this is understandable considering time lost due to COVID19 lockdown and budget reduction. Mr S Mdabe (ANC) would like to add the following sentence to this observation: the adjustment has not affected the process of recruitment of the additional 500 occupational health and safety inspectors.
Mr M Bagraim (DA) says that he is objecting to the budget being cut on the inspection and enforcements services because they are so desperate to have the laws enforced and even with the 500, this is not enough. The inspectors do not get around to all businesses because there are so few of them, even with the 500.
The Chairperson asked if this observation could rather be raised when the Committee is engaged in debate and question and answer with the Minister of Employment and Labour.
Mr Bagraim said she is correct and said he always raises this when the Committee does sit down with the Minister but he will raise it again when the time avails itself.
The Chairperson said Mr Bagraim’s observation will thus fall away in this instance and asked for any seconder for Mr Mdabe’s observation.
Ms N Hermans (ANC) seconds Mr Mdabe’s addition to the observations. There are no objections to this addition.
Under the Public Employment Service Programme, the Committee observed the following: the main function of this programme is to match work-seekers with available work opportunities; this programme had to reduce three of its Annual Performance Plan (APP) 2020/21 indicators; and that this is understandable considering the economic downturn that started before COVID19 and was exacerbated by lockdown, which has resulted in the reduction in the number of available work-opportunities: Mr Bagraim says that this has never worked and has been a waste of money all along.
The Chairperson said that he will have to put this forward as a question to the Minister when the Committee meets with him.
Mr Bagraim said he has done so and that this is his observation.
The Chairperson asked if it his observation that this programme should have not been given any money.
Mr Bagraim said that is correct. The Department should rather use the money for inspection and the CCMA.
The Chairperson asks for any seconder for this proposal and Dr M Cardo (DA) seconds this proposal.
Mr M Nontsele (ANC) objects to this. He said it should stay as it is and politics should not be played.
Mr Mdabe seconds the objection from Mr Nontsele.
The Chairperson said the point will remain as is and that Mr Bagraim and Dr Cardo are free to raise this point with the Minister when the time arises.
For the Department of Employment and Labour, the Committee has recommended the following: [the Department needs to] engage with social partners at NEDLAC to develop a strategy to mitigate the impact of the COVID19 pandemic and budget suspensions on employment levels; closely assess budget expenditure so as to be able to intervene timeously by approaching National Treasury to motivate for movement of funds to where it is needed most; and review the manner in which work has been conducted in the past so as to be more efficient or do more with fewer resources: Mr Bagraim said the Committee should recommend that when the Department engages with the social partners at NEDLAC, it should look to changing some of the labour laws.
Dr Cardo said the Committee should be careful to provide observations and recommendations of substance. The observations and recommendations are temporary and insubstantial, and the Committee needs to highlight in the observations section the magnitude of this crisis and that the Department needs to take the proposals of Members seriously. This is a joint Committee Report and these suggestions should be entertained properly.
The Chairperson said they do not lead issues when the Minister and Department are in front of the Committee but want to raise issues now - this is unacceptable. The Committee must be able to differentiate between issues that should be raised during a debate with the Department and Minister present and issues which can be put forward as recommendations in the Report.
Mr Bagraim heard the point but said he has raised these issues with the Minister. In the meeting, the Director-General of the Department said that this is a matter that needs to be debated in Parliament and that he would not debate it any further in that meeting. When Mr Bagraim raised this issue, he said the focus should be on small businesses to change the laws, the approach and the regulations for small businesses. Small businesses have been devastated by Covid-19 and the Committee seems to be ignoring this.
Mr Nontsele said the argument being put forward now is the same argument that the member [Mr Bagraim] had put forward before. It is a state argument that goes to the regulation of the labour market. It is an old ideological argument that has been advanced by the DA, including its predecessor, which is founded on the argument that allowing the market to do as it pleases with the state moving backwards so that the market can operate as it wishes. This argument has been debunked by many researchers, including one conducted by the International Labour Organisation, which found that the labour market in South Africa is flexible enough and that there is no reason why one should be arguing for such measures.
With regards to the impact of Covid-19, it is in fact correct but SA is not an exception to other economies within the global market. Interventions that have been put in place by government have been assisting to ensure the small business sector is in a position to cushion itself against the effects of Covid-19. The view on the labour laws is not consistent with the spirit of the Constitution that protects the rights of South African workers. The arguments by Mr Bagraim and Dr Cardo must be rejected.
Mr Mdabe was covered by Mr Nonstele and said that the Chairperson has articulated the channels Members can follow should they feel that their point needs to be heard.
Ms H Denner (FF+) asks if they as a Committee are not supposed to deliberate after a presentation from the Department, on their own without the presence of the Department. According to the Chairperson’s analysis, she understands that the Committee cannot insert recommendations or observations that have not been tested in the presence of the Department or the Minister. She asked if the Committee is not supposed to deliberate for the greater good of the labour market and to give recommendations and observations that should be put into the Report.
The Chairperson said the purpose of the briefing by the Department is to accord the Committee an opportunity to interrogate by asking questions to the Department and Minister. That is why the Minister will come with all the heads of the relevant departments. The purpose of that is to answer questions posed by the Committee. The Department has to be allowed to respond and this process forms part of the oversight. It is important that the Committee is not hostile or arrogant towards the Department, and Members have to assert their responsibility as legislators in terms of accountability. The Committee cannot then separately discuss without the Department because then where are Members to get answers from? The opposition is given an opportunity to advance its views on matters during the debates.
With respect to the Administration Programme, the Committee has recommended the following: Address the issue of gender inequality in workplaces, which might be a contributing factor to gender based violence and that this can be addressed through strict enforcement of fines for non-compliance to employment equity targets: Mr Bagraim said he has never seen any study done that proves that gender inequality in the workplace might be a contributing factor to gender-based violence and he is not sure where that comes from. Non-compliance with employment equity should not be a criminal offence.
The Chairperson said the issue on gender-based violence was raised by the Department in a meeting last week where it was said there is gender-based violence in the workplace.
Mr Nontsele said the matter raised by Mr Bagraim is a matter of principle that cannot be allowed to be raised. What Mr Bagraim is actually saying is that in the context of the South African labour market, which has been influenced by patriarchal and class challenges, an environment should be created where offenders who perpetuate such discrimination in the workplace go scot-free. This point of departure should be rejected. The issue of employment equity is also about assisting both racial and class integration in our society. The Committee should in fact condemn Mr Bagriam’s assertion that non-compliance with employment equity should not be criminalised.
The Chairperson said the recommendation will remain as is.
On the issue of Inspection and Enforcement Services Programme, the Committee has recommended that training of recently-appointed labour inspectors is fast tracked so that they reach full productive capacity when the economy is fully opened, as protection of workers against arbitrary treatment during this health, as well as an economic, crisis is going to be crucial: Mr Mdabe would like the sentence to say that the Department should ensure the current running process of appointing 500 occupational health and safety inspectors is fast tracked so that they reach full production capacity, and that protection of workers against arbitrary treatment during this health, as well as an economic, crisis is going to be crucial.
Mr Nonstele supported Mr Mdabe’s amendment.
For the supported employment enterprises, the Committee has recommended that the Department of Employment and Labour and its entities must procure Personal Protective Equipment from the SEE factories. Continue lobbying National Treasury for special dispensation in relation to sales of goods to government departments. The Department of Employment and Labour has to also consider approaching potential clients, such as the Department of Health and the Department of Basic Education, directly to conclude contracts for supplying PPEs: Mr Nontsele said he would like the sentence to say that the Department of Employment and Labour should speed up and quickly conclude its engagements with National Treasury that must ensure that special dispensation does exist. All government departments and state-owned entities to procure furniture, hospital linen, PPE and any other materials produced by supported employments.
Ms Hermans seconded the proposal by Mr Nontsele that refers to all departments and not just the Department of Health and Department of Education.
Ms A Zuma (ANC) formally moved for the adoption of the Report with the changes.
Ms Hermans seconded the move to adopt the report.
Mr Bagraim, along with the DA, objects to the Report.
The FF+ also objected as did the EFF.
Consideration and adoption of Committee Minutes
Committee minutes dated 24 June 2020 were adopted without amendment.
On the minutes of 3 July 2020, Mr Nonstele said among the resolutions, a response in writing should be submitted for questions that had not been answered. He said he was not captured under resolutions. He was still waiting for the response from the Department.
The Chairperson says that is not usually added to the minutes but it will be followed up with the Department.
Committee minutes dated 3 July 2020 were adopted.
Committee Minutes dated 8 July 2020 were adopted without amendment.
The meeting was adjourned.
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Present
-
Dunjwa, Ms ML Chairperson
ANC -
Bagraim, Mr M
DA -
Cardo, Dr MJ
DA -
Denner, Ms H
FF+ -
Hermans, Ms NL
ANC -
Hinana, Mr N
DA -
Mdabe, Mr SW
ANC -
Nkabane, Dr NP
ANC -
Nontsele, Mr M
ANC -
Ntlangwini, Ms EN
EFF -
Sibisi, Mr CHM
NFP -
Zuma, Ms AS
ANC
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