Armscor Bill: voting

Meeting report

SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE
9 October 2003
ARMSCOR BILL: VOTING

Chairperson: Mr K Mokoena

Relevant documents:
Armscor Bill (B18B-2003)
Armscor PowerPoint presentation on proposed Armscor Bill
Armscor proposed amendments

SUMMARY

The PMG Monitor unfortunately arrived 10 minutes late for this meeting. Complete minutes are awaited from the Committee Clerk.

The Department of Defence/Armscor delegation was comprised of Messrs Grundling (Chief Financial Officer), Sendall (Chief Director of Defence Policy), Ratebe (Director of Legal Support), Lobelo (Chief Director of Procurement), Doman (Black Economic Empowerment and Administration Manager) and Ms Ramphele (Senior Manager of Legal Services) - with apologies sent from Mr Masilela (Secretary of Defence). The Committee was also joined by Mr G Hoon, State law adviser, and Ms T Matshitenza, Adviser to the Minister of National Intelligence.

Having flown back from their overnight stopover in Pretoria, the Department of Defence/Armscor delegation proposed amendments to delete sections of clauses 14 and 18. These referred to a definition of "family member" and Armscor's intentions to obtain security clearances for its employees. The Bill was then passed without consideration of any major issue of substance. The meeting lasted less than 1.5 hours.

MINUTES
Mr Radebe: Clause 18 makes provision for defence counter-intelligence, but it appears that there is a contradiction with National Intelligence Act (NIA) regulations.

Mr Matshitenza: The National Intelligence Act provides that only the Minister of Intelligence Services may make regulations for security clearances.

Mr Radebe: I understand the motivation and background of the Armscor Bill, and the Defence Act has similar provisions. Perhaps we should delete Clause 18 (1) (d).

Mr Hoon: The National Intelligence Security Act covers the security services, and I agree that conflicts could arise by including this clause in the Bill.

Mr Sendall: Armscor suggests that the clause be omitted, and the Department of Defence has agreed. The Committee agreed to omit Clause 18 (1) (d).

Mr Hoon: Regarding Clause 14 and the proposed definition of a family member, I suggest the following wording: "For the purposes of this section, 'family member', in relation to a member or employee, means his or her parent, child or spouse, and includes a person living with that member or employee as if they were married to each other". This led to a lengthy discussion, including the issue of same-sex relationships.

Mr Lever (DA): I suggest that "direct or indirect interest" covers the concerns about conflicts of interest, and that it is unnecessary to include the words "that such member, or his or her spouse, partner or family member".

The Committee agreed to delete these words from clauses 14 (1) (a) and 14 (2) (a), and decided not to define "family member".

After much discussion between Messrs Moloyi, Lever and Radebe, it was agreed to insert a new clause 18 (3): "The Minister must cause a copy of draft regulations under sub-section (1) (g) to be tabled in Parliament within a reasonable time after publication thereof"

Mr Mokoena asked the committee to consider whether the bill was desirable, and received unanimous support. Ms Kgoali proposed passage of the bill. Mr Ackermann proposed a delay in passage of the bill on the basis that the public submissions to the Portfolio Committee on Defence had not been forwarded to the National Council of Provinces.

After voting, the Bill was unanimously approved with amendments.

The meeting was adjourned after 1.5 hours.