Committee business

Economic Development

06 November 2018
Chairperson: Ms E Coleman (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Committee considered multiple outstanding minutes from 21 August to 16 October 2018. Members went through each document individually and made corrections to some of them before adopting. Minutes were adopted for all sessions except the second half of the 16th October meeting.

Members raised several issues with the draft minutes. There were problems with the chronology of presentations and the list of organisations that had actually presented. There were also concerns about the transparency of the minutes. Members of the Democratic Alliance maintained that it ought to be recorded which members had asked which questions at the hearings, whilst members of the African National Congress insisted on the unity of the committee and the importance of it being seen to act as a unified body. Other issues included lacklustre detail in some sections, spelling errors and the way in which objections were reflected in the minutes.


Meeting report

The Chairperson announced that the meeting would be concerned with the discussion and approval of 11 sets of minutes. Members were issued with copies of the minutes from 21 August to 16th October 2018 inclusive, to be published for the public upon their approval.

The Committee would review each document page-by-page and Members could make corrections.

Consideration of Outstanding Minutes
21 August 2018
The minutes of 21 August concerned a briefing by the Department on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018]. The minutes were adopted.

28 August 2018
The minutes of 28 August concerned public hearings on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018].

Dr M Cardo (DA) felt that some clarification was needed on information given on LHR solutions, which he stressed needed to be expanded upon to provide greater context for readers.

The minutes were adopted.

29 August 2018

The minutes of 29 August concerned public hearings on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018].

Dr Cardo asked if the committee had received a presentation from the National Union of Leather and Allied workers as the draft minutes claimed.

Mr S Tleane (ANC) seconded this concern and asked if clarification could be had about who had actually attended.

The Chairperson commented that she remembered several of the names and associations listed on the draft minutes.

Dr Cardo rejoined, with references to his notes on the hearings, that the minutes were not an accurate reflection on the order in which the organisations and individuals presented. As an example, day one had started with a presentation by the Law Society of South Africa and ended with one from the Broadway Suites.

The Chairperson stipulated that the list be amended accordingly.

Dr Cardo added that some names on the list needed to be removed.

The Chairperson agreed.

The minutes were approved with amendments.

4 September 2018

The minutes of 4 September concerned deliberations on the outcomes of the public hearings on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018].

The Committee approved the minutes.

5 September 2018

The minutes of the 5th September concerned deliberations on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018].

Dr Cardo felt that section 43G, on participation in a Market Inquiry, was not accurately reflected under section 12A insofar as the minutes had recorded that there had been no objections. He felt that this was too strong a sentiment on the part of the Democratic Alliance.

Mr P Atkinson (DA) thought that it would then be a good idea to clarify that there were no objections to issues surrounding the presentations.

Mr Tleane felt this was a reasonable stipulation.

The Chairperson queried if it would do any harm to leave no objections out, given that it was not the type of discussion that required Members to object or not object. This was on the grounds of producing a cleaner document for public consumption.

Mr Tleane asked what kind of message this would send to the public and archivists. The section would become too empty in that way.

The Chairperson commented that members have a right to declare objections or amendments. The Committee could enrich the minutes if it so wished but there must be consistency in this.

The minutes were approved with amendments.
11 September 2018

The minutes of 11 September concerned responses by the Minister of Economic Development on the issues raised during public hearings on the Competition Amendment Bill.

The Chairperson cautioned that members ought to move slowly in considering this meeting.

Dr Cardo commented that it was not made clear which committee members had commented on which issues and he noted that some of his comments, in particular on the issue of provisions for excessive prices, had been merged into the Minister’s presentation. It ought to be made clear who asked these questions and who responded to them.

The Chairperson commented that these were responses to questions raised in the public hearings, not questions raised by the members.

Ms C Matsimbi (ANC) added that the Minister was just responding to all questions raised on the day.

Dr Cardo commented that the section on deliberations had been notably curtailed. He wanted clarification about who had asked which questions.

Mr Atkinson added that he thought these minutes ought to be as extensive as possible, given that they were intended to be published in the public domain.

Ms Matsimbi commented that these were minutes and so did not need to be markedly detailed.

Mr Cele added that the Committee asked the questions as one body and not as individuals.

Mr Atkinson responded that he wanted names in the minutes because he wanted details in the public record to be as accurate as possible. Particularly around the bill, as much detail as possible ought to be provided.

Dr Cardo concurred.

Mr Cele added that if one felt that one’s name ought to be there, that should be allowed.

Mr Tleane commented that the Committee should be seen as a team and that these kinds of details must only be included when they are meaningful.

The Chairperson was reluctant to put the issue of the inclusion of names to a vote and kept the floor open.

Ms A Mfulo (ANC) emphasised that the Committee was a collective, despite being composed of separate parties.

Ms Matsimbi regarded the issue as somewhat peripheral, and that a decision ought to be made on the matter. She asked the Chairperson to seek clarity quickly.

Dr Cardo did not concur with this sentiment. If the committee decided to press on without these details then an objection ought to be noted by the Democratic Alliance on the grounds of transparency. He suggested that these details would be easier to include than the Chairperson suggested.

The Chairperson conceded that it be noted that the DA did not agree with the minutes.

Ms Matsimbi and Mr Cele moved to adopt to the minutes.

The minutes were adopted.

18 September 2018

The minutes of 18 September concerned deliberations on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018].

The Chairperson encouraged members to take notes of the areas they had amended.

The minutes were approved.

19 September 2018
The minutes of 19 September concerned continued deliberations on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018].

The minutes were adopted.

2 October 2018

The minutes of 2 October concerned continued deliberations on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018].

Ms Mastimbi objected that she was Ms and not Mr Matsimbi.

Dr Cardo commented that he had a specific objection on a question he had posed not being allowed to be entertained; on his raising concerns on what he referred to as inadequate consideration of the bill. He commented that he had walked out of the meeting and not left it.

The Chairperson commented that she felt the question had not been relevant, and that there was no distinction between ‘walking out of’ and ‘leaving’ a meeting.

The minutes were adopted.

3 October 2018

The minutes of 3 October concerned continued deliberations on the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018].

Mr Tleane asked whether it was clarified if Mr Madella had two ‘l’s in his name or one.

The minutes were approved.

16 October 2018

The minutes of 16 October 2018 concerned the consideration of the Competition Amendment Bill [B23 - 2018] and a briefing by the Economic Development Department on its 2017/18 Annual Report.

Dr Cardo commented that Mr Pikinini and Ms Matsimbi were not visitors, but that Ms Ndaba-Ncube (ANC) and Mr Madella ought to be considered visitors since they rarely attended the Committee.

The Chairperson responded that for that particular day they were considered visitors.

Dr Cardo then objected to the Minister’s ability to intervene in all mergers and felt that this ought to have been noted.

Mr Tleane commented that some objections may not have been registered, those concerns that were registered vocally seemed to have been the ones recorded.

The Chairperson asked members if they had any issues about the IDC presentation. She felt that the minutes were lacklustre and should be more clearly articulated and delineated. It should be indicated what questions were asked and what questions were responded to.

Mr Tleane concurred.

The first part of the minutes were adopted by Mr Tleane and Ms Mfulu. It was felt that the second part needed to be revised.

The Chairperson concluded the session with the announcement that next week the Committee would be dealing with 1st and 2nd quarterly reports.

The meeting was adjourned.



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