Report back by Workgroups and Adoption of Resolutions

Public Accounts (SCOPA)

29 October 2002
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Meeting Summary

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Meeting report

29 October 2002

[This is a transcript of the meeting, produced by the Public Accounts Committee Secretariat.]



Chiba, Mr. L
Gerber, Mr. P
Gumede, Mr. D
Mofokeng, Mr. R
Mothoagae, Ms. K
Nair, Mr. B
Smith, Mr. V


Lowe, Mr. M


Beukman, Mr. F (Chairperson)


Vezi, Mr. E


Dudley, Ms. C


Mr. S Ndou (ANC)
Woods, Dr. G (IFP)
Koornhof, Dr. (UDM)

In attendance

Mr. A. Fakie (The Auditor-General)
Mr. A Van Dyck (Auditor-General's Office)
Mr. D Titus (Auditor-General's Office)
Mr. C Botes (Auditor-General's Office)
Mr. P Mosaka (Auditor-General's Office)
Ms. N Manik (Auditor-General's Office)


The Chairperson welcomed members of the Committee. The agenda was adopted as circulated.

Adoption of minutes.

The Committee adopted minutes of the previous meeting that took place on the 23 October 2002.

Report-Back by Groups.

Group 2

Ms. Mothoagae reported that the Group:

Has considered replies received from the Accounting Officer of ICASA.
Has considered replies from Parliament and have identified weaknesses on the following areas:
-Security Systems;
-Commissions on Insurance Companies.
Has agreed to prioritise the report for early next year.
Would table a draft resolution on Sarafina next week.
Would consider the 2002 Auditor-General's report on Home Affairs and Public Service Commission next week.
Request that members who would be part of the delegation to visit Courts in Durban and East London should use the transcript of the hearing that SCOPA had with the Department of Justice when preparing for this visit. The full programme would be distributed to members this afternoon.
Was briefed by the Auditors from the Office of the Auditor General on the Report of the Department of Health. The Group is concerned with lack of control/accountability on transferred funds to Provincial Departments, management expenditure and donor funding. The Group would finalise their preparations next week.

Group 1.

Mr. Gumede reported that:

The group has for the past two weeks been pre-occupied with the preparations for the hearing with SAPS, scheduled for tomorrow and the finalisation of draft resolutions on SETAs.
The Group has identified the following themes for the hearing:

Fuel and oil, Vehicle Management and Workshop Accounting systems.
Management of fixed assets, over losses and administration of stock.
Weapons losses and auctions.
Internal Audit/Audit Committee and National Secretariat.
Free Services and Unauthorised expenditure.

It was further agreed that the Chairperson would in his welcoming remarks outline the process and the criteria followed by the Committee in deciding on calling the SAPS to appear before it, despite the fact that their report is unqualified.

Adoption of Resolutions.

Auditor General's General Report.

The draft resolution on the Auditor-General's general report was adopted with the following amendments: Introduction:

Page 1, Paragraph 2, the following names were deleted: Mr.
S. Fakie, Ms. M Ramos, Mr. I Mamojee and Mr. J Nair.
Page 1, Paragraph 3 and 4, the word in question was deleted and replaced by under review. Internal Control.

Page 2, Paragraph 2 the word experience was replaced by experienced and the word the before the word National Treasury was deleted.
Page 2, Paragraph 3, the word the before the word reasons was deleted and the following for the was inserted after the word reasons.
Page 3, Paragraph 2 the word authority after the word Internal, was deleted and replaced by the word Audit. Asset Management.

Page 3, Paragraph 3, the word the before the word National Treasury was deleted and the following were inserted at the end of the second sentence " This possess serious challenges as departments will be migrating from cash to accrual accounting system". Listing of Public Entities. (Page 3, Paragraph 4)

*The word the before the word National Treasury was deleted.
*The word strongly was added before the word recommends. Local Government. (Page 4, Paragraph 2)

The word serious was inserted before the word concern.
The number 106 before the word Audit Reports was deleted and replaced by 806.
The word issued to after the word reports was deleted and replaced by issued on.
The word had was inserted after the word were and the word Audits Opinions replaced the word reports. General

Page 4, paragraph 1, bullet number 5, the following words were added Lack of timeous before the word payment and by local authorities after the word fees.
Page 5, paragraph 2, bullet number 1, the following were deleted causes it to be and was replaced by renders it.
Page 5, paragraph 1, bullet number 2 the word watchdog was deleted and replaced by oversight. Closing remarks.

Paragraph 1, the word the before National Treasury was deleted.

The Energy Sector Education and Training Authority. (ESETA)

The resolution was adopted with the following amendments.

Internal Audit.

The word provision was changed to provisions.

3.3.3 The Diplomacy, Intelligence, Defence and Trade Education and Training Authority. (DIDTETA)

The resolution was adopted with the following amendments:

Audit Opinion

Paragraph 2, the following, needs to be paid after the word attention and the word to before the word, which were deleted.

Risk Assessment

Paragraph 3, the following, ..well as to implement the full action addressing the risk identify before 31 November 2002 and, that the Auditor General were deleted and were replaced by …a matter of urgency and that the Auditor General..

Decision on Hearing.

The following were added after the word review, however the committee notes several issues which needs attention.

3.3.4. Construction Education and Ttraining Authority. (CETA), The Tourism, Hospitality and Sport Education and Training Authority (THETA) and The Media Advertising, Printing, Packaging Sector Education Training Authority (MAPPP-SETA).

The Committee referred back these resolutions to Group 1 for further evaluation in accordance with the SCAG criteria and should report back to the Committee on whether the Committee should conduct a hearing on these entities.

It was further agreed that if the Committee decides on having a hearing then the Committee should invite the Director General of the Department of labour and not the Chief Executive Officers of the relevant SETAs to account before it.


The Committee agreed to prioritise the following issues for late January or early February:

Meeting with the Director General of the Department of Justice, the Chairperson of Portfolio Committee of Justice and the Director General of the Department of Treasury.
Hearing on the Road Accident Fund.

The meeting adjourned at 13:00.


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