Independent Police Investigative Directorate on its Strategic Plan 2012

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16 April 2012
Chairperson: Ms L Chikunga (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

Members were concerned with the training and attitude of the South African Police Service. There was a lack of compliance regarding the Domestic Violence and Child Justice Acts. Recommendations made by the Independent Complaints Directorate to SAPS had often been ignored, and there was a concern that the new dispensation would see the same attitude.

The newly formed Independent Police Investigative Directorate had started functioning in April 2012. Its mandate had been enlarged from that of the Independent Complaints Directorate. It would exercise independent oversight over the Police, especially in terms of corruption. An important aim was to be accessible, hence the need to establish satellite offices around the country and to communicate with the public.

The current staff complement was 337, which would increase to a planned establishment of approximately 550. Women formed more than half of this number. The Directorate would have three programmes: Administration, Investigations and Legal Services. The second programme on Investigations was the priority area. Standards had been set for reporting. Investigators were undergoing both general and specialist training. The Directorate had spent 99% of its budget in the 2011/12 financial year.

Directorate officials explained to Members that aspects of the budget had been curtailed in response to a call from National Treasury for financial constraint. Members wanted more assurance that the Directorate would act against corruption. The ratio of administrative spending and staff to operational was too high in their opinion. Members were not satisfied that the asset management policy still had to be finalised. Members felt that the performance indicators could be more comprehensive. The provision of legal services and feedback to complainants were unsatisfactory. Members felt that some of the information presented was too vague for them to exercise their oversight role.

The incident in which a young man had been beaten by a police officer in Limpopo was discussed in detail. The issue had been reported in the media in November 2011 but really came to the public's attention in March 2012 after widespread video coverage. Members felt that the Directorate should have been more proactive in this and other cases and not have to wait until a complaint was laid. The Directorate had taken the case over only when the suspect had appeared in court. In the interim he had served as Acting Station Commander. There was a need for some serious introspection. An effective IPID was needed that knew what to do and one that would intervene. In the absence of that, there would be another piece of legislation passed but not implemented.

Meeting report

The Chairperson welcomed the delegation from the newly formed Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID). The meeting would assist Members in determining the way in which political priorities would be addressed from IPID’s budget and strategic plan. Members had visited South African Police Service (SAPS) stations throughout the country. A particular concern was an apparent lack of proper training of SAPS members in implementing the Domestic Violence Act (DVA). Many violent crimes originated from uncontrolled domestic violence. Complaints were not registered unless they involved a breach of a court order. It also seemed that current Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD) procedures were only carried out while Members were visiting police stations.

The Chairperson was pleased to see that many victim support centres had been established, but had a problem that these centres were generally reliant on the work of volunteers. The Child Justice Act (CJA) was also not being implemented properly. The implementation of the DVA would now fall under the SAPS Secretariat. The records showed that management did not know what it was doing in this regard. In the North West province she had seen beautiful charts explaining the two Acts, but the problem was in the implementation.

Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) presentation
Mr Francois Beukman, IPID Executive Director, said that R196 million had been allocated for the current financial year (FY). This would increase to R232 million by 2014/15. Special assistance had been sought from National Treasury (NT) in tackling the new mandate given by the creation of the IPID. The IPID Act had introduced new strategic imperatives. They had taken the advice to avoid holding a series of workshops and rather to concentrate on implementing a new strategy. The Presidency had indicated that the planning was in line with expectations, and was in line with other Departments.

Mr Beukman said that there had been an historic problem with staff retention. Thirty case monitors had been converted to investigators. The case reporting system was in place. A monitoring system was in place. Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) had been signed off in March 2012. The Corporate Governance unit had started its work on 1 April. The internal audit unit was also in place. The outstanding matter was the appointment of the nine provincial heads, but a short-list of candidates had been compiled. Nineteen more investigators had been appointed countrywide.

Mr Beukman said that the aim was to ensure independent oversight over the SAPS. Priorities were to report and monitor recommendations regarding SAPS members, improve reporting and accounting procedures, develop policy and reporting frameworks, and strengthen management at national and provincial levels. A major brief was to prevent SAPS corruption.

Mr Beukman said that the question was how funds would be utilised. The logic model had an outcome of engendering the trust of the public in the SAPS in line with the spirit of the national Constitution. While reporting could only be evaluated over time, a current objective was to ensure that adequate reporting systems were in place. IPID had to be made accessible to the public.

Programme 1: Administration
Ms Nomkhosi Shange, Chief Director: Corporate Services, IPID, said IPID had to be accessible to the public, both in terms of the ability of the public to report and being able to be understood by the public. There would be publicity campaigns on the mandate of IPID and how members of the public could contact IPID. There would be at least 34 publicity campaigns in each province. There would be engagement with stakeholders. The second outcome was to ensure that the performance management system operated optimally. All policies would have to be reviewed and aligned with the IPID Act. Reliable, accurate and interpretable information must be supplied to enable correct decision-making. She presented the performance indicators to be used to achieve these objectives. There were four categories: the public awareness campaign, stakeholder management, updating of policies and guidelines and performance management systems. All policies would be reviewed annually. At present 42 policies had been signed off. Asset registers would be reviewed on a quarterly basis. The vacancy rate would be kept low. It was below 10% at present. There were 337 positions, of which 34 had only been created at the start of the new FY. There were 33 vacancies at present. Interviews were currently being conducted. There was a target of 50% females at top management level. This was exceeded at present. At least five of the provincial heads would be women. The IPID had three persons with disabilities, while another three would have to be appointed to reach the target of 2%.

Ms Shange said that 26 of the 34 positions described earlier fell within Programme 2, which covered the core business. Of these, 17 were investigators and the other nine were the provincial heads.

Programme 2: Investigations and Information Management
Mr Matthews Sesoko, Acting Chief Director: Investigations and Information Management, IPID, said that expenditure on leases would increase from the current R15 million for the FY to R37 million in 2014/15. The adjustment would reflect actual expenditure while there would be expansion of existing office accommodation. Satellite offices would be established in the provinces. They had received legal advice only to pay over to the Department of Public Works (DPW) what was necessary to satisfy existing contracts. There would be a meeting with DPW shortly in this regard.

Mr Sesoko said that a User Asset Management Plan (UAMP) had been established. The Accommodation Advisory Committee had been restructured. An Immovable Asset Policy had been drafted. Recent discussion with DPW had indicated that preference would be given to building own accommodation rather than leasing. Small departments such as IPID would be given preference.  The Department had identified where satellite offices could be established. There should be one in each district in each province. Public access to the offices had to be considered. The DPW had indicated that tenders would be issued. A satellite office would be set up at Headquarters in the current FY, with three more in the 2013/14 FY. The number would increase to cover all districts in time.

Mr Sesoko said Programme 2 outputs would be the case management system, completed investigations of cases, recommendation reports to the SAPS and feedback reports. He presented the indicators. Action should be taken on reports within 48 hours. The Department of Police had to report on the number of cases at least twice a year. The new mandate meant that it was not possible to use historical data. For example, any discharge of a police weapon now had to be reported to IPID. This had not been the case in the past.

Mr Sesoko described the plan for training investigators. A conference had been planned for April 2012 where all investigators would be briefed on current developments, the regulations and expectations of IPID members. A schedule was in place. Training would be held on DNA, domestic violence and torture in the current quarter. There was a full plan for the year covering different aspects, after which members would have a thorough understanding of the work they had to do.

Programme 3: Legal Services
Ms Koekie Mbeki, Chief Director: Legal Services, IPID, explained the objectives of Programme 3, saying IPID would operate in a highly regulated climate. Investigations had to be conducted within a legal framework and the Constitution. The programme would act in support of the work of the IPID. It would be reactionary by nature, and responses would have to be tailored to the situations in which investigators might find themselves. Investigations had to be efficient and legal at all stages. Outputs would be legal and litigation advisory services and investigation advisory services. There were indicators to assess the effectiveness of the service. One of these was the provision of immediate verbal legal advice. As IPID was still very new, there was no baseline. This would be determined during the current FY. A gradual increase in efficiency would be planned.

Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) budget
Ms Lindokuhle Cwele, IPID Chief Financial Officer, said IPID had been launched on 1 April. One of the major budget needs was equipping the staff with the necessary tools to conduct their business. Another 34 staff would be appointed during the current FY. The plan was to expand to a staff complement of over 550 in the following years. To date, 99% of the 2011/12 budget had been spent. Additional funding from NT would assist IPID to grow in strength. NT had requested that the requirements be reprioritised due to financial constraints. There would be growth from R196 million in the 2012/13 FY to R232 million in 2014/15. The bulk of this would go to Investigations and Information Management.

Ms Cwele said that for the 2012/13 budget, approximately 46% would be directed to Programme 1 and 49% to Programme 2, with the remaining funding going to Programme 3. Approximately 47% of spending would be for compensation of employees, 48% to goods and services, 2% to capital assets and the remainder would be in the form of transfers for training. There would be a gradual increase over the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF). The increase from the previous year was 28%. There had been some challenges in spending but these had been overcome with the result that over 99% of the budget had been spent. There had been some problems with lease payments to DPW. DPW had been paid all leases as per the contracts. IPID welcomed the sharpened mandate. The budget allocation would allow IPID to fulfil its mandate. It was important to advise Members on how the previous budget had been spent in order to motivate the new budget.

Ms M Molebatsi (ANC) asked how many of the official languages would be used to communicate with the public. She also queried why there should be a satellite office at head office. She asked about the capacity building of the investigators. The budget allocation for training had decreased. This did not seem right.

Ms D Kohler-Barnard (DA) said that there was a history of less been granted than what had been requested. Recommendations had been ignored by the SAPS. She asked who determined the actual allocations. IPID had been forced to downscale its activities and planning. There were currently daily allegations of misuse of funds in this department. Systemic corruption was part of the mandate. She asked if there was any investigation into these allegations. The Minister was being called a liar in the media. She asked why the fourteen indicators had been changed. The ICD had been developing a serious backlog due to a lack of staff and resources. There seemed to be a problem with the State Information Technology Agency (SITA).

Ms A van Wyk (ANC) was concerned in that she was not seeing a clear picture in either the performance or strategic plan on how the organisation would be run. She had not seen the numbers of people to run the various aspects of IPID's business. She was concerned that management would not have the ability to deliver. One of the failings of ICD was the number of vacancies and the high staff turnover. She wanted to see how the budgetary figures presented would be converted into increased staff numbers. She believed the increase was only cosmetic. IPID would still be spending over 45% on administration but only 51% on investigation. There would a decrease in real terms over the MTEF. The same problems experienced by the ICD might be hampering the IPID within a few years despite the budget doubling. She thought that the ratio of administrative to investigative staff might be as high as 1:3. The satellite station in George, planned for 2011/12, had not opened. There were problems with DPW but these had to be managed. The same thing might retard the plans as laid out in the document. She was worried about the lack of performance in two areas. These were the implementation of recommendations by the SAPS as some form of check and balance was needed, and in terms of the baseline figures. Although the IPID had new responsibilities in the IPID Act, many activities such as deaths in custody had already been part of the work of ICD and these figures should be used. She requested that there be a differentiation in the implementation of the new and old mandates.

Ms van Wyk asked why the asset management policy was still in an interim state. Internal audit had been a problem in the past. Asset management had been a problem historically. It was not clear how this would be addressed. Feedback reports should be quicker than thirty days after the submission of a complaint. This was a long time. The public complained about a lack of feedback with the detective services in normal SAPS work. There was a policy that feedback be given to complainants on a weekly basis even if progress was slow. Regarding legal services she was worried about the reference to verbal advice. Even urgent advice should be conveyed in writing albeit by email. This would lead to problems. She was worried about IPID's ability to deliver on its mandate. She was not sure that the correct people were available. There had been images published widely of a policeman beating a youth. The national spokesman had issued a statement that the case could only be investigated if the victim or his family laid a complaint. Surely in such a case IPID should act without having to wait for a complaint. She asked if the will was there for IPID to be the teeth that the public needed.

Mr L Ramatlakane (COPE) wondered why the asset management policy was interim. He asked what informed management in making decisions. He asked if IPID had the appetite to act independently rather than as a subordinate to another Department. He asked who was responsible for a holistic understanding on what was needed to implement the IPID Act. A budget presentation should be made on how the mandate directed by the Act should be fulfilled. He asked what the optimum staff establishment should be countrywide. He wanted to know what the staff complement in the provinces should look like. If such a document existed he would like to see the information. He asked what the real problems were with the budgetary allocation. He asked how some of the numbers in the indicators had been reached, such as the number of outreach programmes which stood at 306. Parliament could not act in its oversight role if the information was not specific enough. He asked about the experience level of the investigators.

Mr G Lekgetho (ANC) also wanted more detail on the publicity campaigns. He would like to see a schedule. It might be difficult to manage staging one event a day almost across the whole country.

The Chairperson wanted to know if the rural areas would be covered in the publicity campaigns. Many of the functions were no longer part of the IPID functional areas. She asked if there could not be a prediction of the use of the legal service. SAPS members might not be aware of some relevant Acts. She could not expect IPID to train all SAPS members, but there should be some awareness so that suspected crimes could be reported in good time.

Mr Beukman said that when the legislation was drafted, a steering committee had been formed. Challenges of change had been addressed. In terms of the original budget presentation, a higher projection had been made. NT had requested that the budget be trimmed. The plan was to have 520 posts in order to execute the IPID mandate. This had to be adjusted due to budget constraints. There had been some reprioritisation, to prevent too much compromise, to Programme 2. The move towards the full staff complement and the development of satellite office would have to be stretched over a long period than had been planned. Part of the reorganisation process was to move from ‘reaction to complaints’ to ‘conducting proactive investigation’. Certain building blocks were needed. NT had provided funds for some areas and for the provincial offices. The appointment of the correct people was critical. IPID had tried to involve the stakeholders. There had been meetings with SAPS.

Mr Beukman said that the prerogative to investigate the misuse of secret funds lay with the Inspector General. If a criminal matter was reported to IPID which fell outside their mandate, it must be referred to the correct body such as the Hawks or the Public Protector. In cases which did fall within the mandate there should be proactive investigation.

Mr Beukman agreed that there was a baseline for deaths in police custody and there should have been indicators. This would be corrected. There should be a focus on strategic rather than operational level. There should still be internal reporting on these matters within the relevant division.

Ms Shange said that asset management was guided by current supply chain management policy. All current assets had been checked and tagged. An asset controller had been appointed. Quarterly verification was conducted. A disposal committee was in place.

Mr Moses Dlamini, IPID National Spokesman, said IPID had developed a communications strategy in cooperation with the Government Communication and Information System (GCIS). The objectives were to convey the change of name and branding of the organisation and the work done by IPID. Audiences had been identified, both internally, in the SAPS, and externally. Key role players had been identified in both the SAPS and municipal police departments. Various platforms had been used. Workshops and seminars had been held, websites had been used as well as the SAPS television channel. Recruits had been briefed. The public would be informed through community radio and outreach programmes. He listed a number of areas that had been visited in all provinces. The bias had been to rural areas except in Gauteng, which was mainly urbanised. In some provinces more outreach campaigns had been possible due to already established satellite offices.

Mr Dlamini said that all eleven languages were used. Material had been translated and the staff members were proficient in the languages used in the areas they visited.

Mr Dlamini said that the incident referred to by the Member had in fact occurred in Limpopo. This was against a backdrop of other serious incidents. An SAPS member had been arrested for a shooting in Daveyton. The three SAPS officers involved in a fatal shooting in KwaZulu-Natal were arrested on the same day as the incident in Limpopo. In this latter matter, the incident had occurred in December but had only come to the IPID's attention in March. The suspect was due to appear in court on the day after the video material was broadcast, and had indeed been charged with assault. IPID investigators had taken over the case. If the family were not satisfied with the actions taken by SAPS, then the IPID would take over the case.

Mr Lekgetho was happy to see the list of areas covered by the campaigns, but wanted to know what the programme was so that he could attend such meetings held in his constituency.

The Chairperson said that the real question was if the SAPS had done a quality job in investigating cases against their own members. In Ermelo nobody wanted to provide information on a protested allegedly killed by SAPS members. ICD had given the impression that they would investigate but there was no assurance to Parliament that this would actually happen. Opening a case at an SAPS station did not equate to an automatic conviction. It depended on the quality of evidence. She was not saying that SAPS would not provide work of the best quality, and in fact many SAPS members were currently serving prison services. She wanted to know how ICD was ensuring that cases did go to court and were effectively prosecuted. The information was available.

Ms van Wyk said the issue was not whether there was a court appearance or not. The issue was the statement that ICD would only investigate if there was a complaint from the victim or the family. The public needed to know that IPID would not hesitate to act should it become aware of any wrongdoing. This was an unfortunate example but it had happened and the video footage had been viewed on the internet countless times. She wanted to see that IPID had the stomach to act. IPID had taken the investigation over, but it had already gone to court. She asked how IPID had strengthened the case. The role of IPID was to ensure that transgressions should be properly punished. At face value, the member in Limpopo did not deserve to be an SAPS member.

Mr Ramatlakane did not understand the statement regarding the matter in Limpopo, in the town of Vaalharts. He asked what role IPID had played in the matter. If an arrest had already been made, it might be that the SAPS internal processes had been adequate. Between December 2011 and March 2012, he asked how the information chain had functioned. It seemed that IPID had only been informed about the matter once the incident had become widely publicised.

Ms Kohler-Barnard said that the 27 000 SAPS member carrying firearms without licences was a breach of the law. The mandate might have been to look at conditions in SAPS cells. She said that Ms van Wyk had gone grey when seeing the lack of proper policing of cells at SAPS stations. Some suspects spent years in these cells. The firearm issue was not a new one. Training was not done for years at a time. The standard of SAPS marksmanship was a joke. It might differ from province to province.

The Chairperson asked what IPID had recommended on internal disciplinary processes.

Mr Dlamini replied that the statement made on the Vaalharts matter was only made a few hours after being asked for comment. IPID had contacted the provincial office and the video footage was provided. The responsible station was identified and visited by IPID officials. The docket was already at the prosecutors. A SAPS report was included in the docket. The instruction from the Executive Director was for IPID to take the case over in order to ensure that disciplinary action would be taken and that the court case would have integrity. The SAPS member had to be held accountable. The role of the IPID beforehand had been nothing as they had not been aware of the incident. Their role was to ensure that there was a proper investigation and that there should be a conviction. After the IPID took over the investigation, the SAPS member had been suspended once local management knew that IPID would be taking the case. IPID was committed to taking its role seriously. In all cases involving police brutality and criminality, swift action was taken.

Ms Kohler-Barnard asked if the SAPS station concerned had ever contacted IPID. She asked if there had been any repercussions. Any SAPS officer tampering with evidence could be jailed. The Committee had worked through the legislation. She was fearful that SAPS would treat IPID with the same contempt that they had shown to ICD. IPID had to put its foot down now and assert its role.

Ms van Wyk found it a positive that SAPS had investigated the case. The victim had laid a charge on his release from hospital. The same officer had allegedly faced charges of assault, subsequently upgraded to attempted murder. He was later acting station commander for some time. It was concerning that the community had not known that they should have reported the matter directly to IPID rather than refer back to the same SAPS officials.

Mr Dlamini replied IPID had been informed about the case by the media before the video footage had been broadcast on television. This had triggered the IPID investigation. This was still under the ICD environment. It had still to be tested if SAPS would comply with the IPID Act. This would all be monitored and IPID would report to the Committee on the challenges faced.

Mr Sesoko said that IPID now realised the enormity of the work they faced. IPID had engaged with SAPS. They had met with SAPS provincial heads and senior management in various workshops. They had met with the SAPS Legal Services with a view to develop a memorandum of understanding (MoU). There had been two workshops with SAPS and municipal police bodies. Another engagement was planned before the MoU was finalised. The IPID had already developed its SOPs which were aligned to the Act. Internal policies of both SAPS and municipal police forces should be aligned to the IPID Act. There should be a National Instruction on the issue.

The Chairperson said there was nothing in the Performance Plan regarding the IPID Act.

Ms van Wyk asked if there was any indication on the steps IPID had put in place regarding proactive actions. In fact, the Vaalharts case was reported in The Sowetan on 24 November 2011, and the officer had only been suspended in March 2012. There were continual complaints about SAPS officers at Jeppe soliciting bribes from immigrants. She asked if any action would be taken on these complaints.

Mr Ramatlakane said that Members were not privy to the communications strategy. A proactive stance was needed on what IPID would do to educate the community. Proper feedback was needed on what had developed at Vaalharts since IPID had taken the case. A written answer was needed.

Mr Sesoko noted the comments made by Members. The communications people did scan the newspapers and refer any incidents to provincial offices for investigation. There had to be some deliberation when cases were referred to IPID.

Mr Sesoko reminded Members about what had been done about training. A tender for a training manual had been issued and the manual should be available shortly. All other interventions would be made to ensure that investigators were capacitated. There were different levels of skill and experience amongst the investigators. A written report could be provided.

In reply to the Chairperson, Mr Sesoko said that SAPS was not used to provide training. Accredited independent service providers had been appointed.

The Chairperson asked how long and how detailed the course was.

Mr Sesoko said that there was training for investigators. This was a one-year course to capacitate monitors. They would receive diplomas in investigation. There was a course for more experienced investigators. There was a need for sexual offences training as rape in custody was a priority area. The same was the case for torture investigation. Most investigators would be specialists. Some had been SAPS officers before, prosecutors or private investigators.

Mr Beukman said that a tender had been issued for training in systematic corruption.

The Chairperson assumed that there was a basic course for all investigators with specialised follow-up training.

Mr Sesoko confirmed that this was the case. Sexual offences were covered. Part of the engagements being conducted with SAPS was on how recommendations would be implemented. Failure to do so would be an offence. The issue would be addressed in the MoU.

Ms van Wyk said the question was more on monitoring of how many recommendations were implemented.

Mr Sesoko said that the case management system would incorporate all these recommendations. Matters were referred directly to provincial IPID officials. There would be a monthly summarised list on the status of all investigations.

Ms van Wyk was still not satisfied. She felt that there should be a performance agreement. The point was to know if the SAPS were acting on the recommendations of the IPID.

Mr Beukman said that there must be a report on the recommendations made quarterly to the Minister. They would also report to the Committee in September.

Mr Sesoko confirmed that there would be a satellite office at head office. There were many cases in the Tshwane metro, requiring a facility to service the metro. IPID had indicated that the completion of the satellite office programme would depend on budget allocations. He could not say if such offices would be leased, built by DPW, or use existing state property. The matter would be discussed with DPW, but IPID would prefer to move away from leasing property.

The Chairperson saw a discrepancy in the figures.

Ms van Wyk said that George had already been missed. There was no indication when this project would happen. IPID already knew what the future budget would be. She asked what had been put into place to cover future accommodation be it bought, rented or built. She questioned the location of the Tshwane satellite office. It might have been better to have located this in an area such as Soshonguve or Hammanskraal. IPID was able to buy property in secure areas.

Mr Ramatlakane said that some options had been put forward in the presentation. The budget would increase to R37 million over the MTEF. He asked if there had been any financial projection. Funding would not be secured if there was no proper planning.

The Chairperson said that the budget allocations could be changed. There was a long list of projects for the outer year of the MTEF. This was not what the Committee wanted to see. IPID needed to do its homework. People would become disillusioned when the plans did not come to fruition. People would develop the perception that government was lying to them. SAPS had a similar discrepancy between what was being planned to what was actually happening.

Mr Beukman reminded the Chairperson that the budget was based on the lease model. The President had told government entities to restrict their requirements. The projection in the presentation was based on the lease model.

Mr Sesoko said that the UAMP had been developed with DPW. Provision had been made for the projections. Once approved, the plan went to NT. These budget implications were then catered for by NT.

Mr Ramatlakane needed clarity on the UAMP. He asked if this was based on the lease model.

Mr Sesoko said that the user management plan indicated a preference for purchase or construction of own property. Construction was the first choice, government-owned as a second priority and lease as the least favoured option.

Ms van Wyk asked how this conclusion had been reached.

Mr Ramatlakane asked what informed the MTEF budget. Building would have higher input costs and would not achieve the plan. The R37 million would not be enough to cover the projects. Construction costs had been escalating.

Mr Sesoko said that it was an issue of engagement. The interaction with DPW showed they also wanted to move away from leasing. When the user management plan was developed, preferences could be indicated. DPW would advise on the processes and projected costs based on the preferences put forward. It was uncertain if DPW could indeed help with the options chosen. Projections were based on current market prices.

The Chairperson described the list of projects tabled as a wish list. They would not be able to build all the facilities listed in the presentation within the given budget. Many SAPS stations had been on a priority list since 1994, but never progressed beyond the waiting list.

Mr Ramatlakane understood that the R37 million was a guess rather than an estimate. Including George, there were eighteen offices on the list.

Ms Cwele said that the amount on the budget was only that which had been approved. Once the user asset management policy was adopted, the budget figures could be changed. The figures given to Members were based on current payments for lease arrangements.

Ms van Wyk said that Members were asked if the eighteen facilities could be provided given the baseline figures. There had been one project for the previous year which had failed. She asked what IPID was putting into place to make sure that the projects would happen.

Mr Sesoko said that the reality was the process could not be achieved without assistance. He could not say they would achieve what they wanted. He expected that the next MTEF figures would change once the plan was accepted. This could not be guaranteed though.

The Chairperson concluded that the list was in fact a wish-list.

The meeting adjourned for lunch.

Ms Mbeki said that there were cases where legal advice was needed so urgently that there was simply no time to put it in writing. IPID would still put systems and procedures in place to plan ahead for legislation. Where the law was silent on a particular matter, an instruction would be given to members as a guideline on how to act. Legal Services should be able to provide advice to provincial offices. The term ‘reactionary’ referred to the way in which Legal Services would be able to provide help for investigators.

Ms Cwele said that budget allocations were determined by NT. IPID fell under the Justice Cluster. Departments would submit their proposed budgets to an advisory committee. All proposal would be tabled at NT, which would be guided by a ministerial committee. Not all needs could be met so there was a process of compromise. There were historical problems with invoicing from SITA. These had now been sorted out. The IPID software had been upgraded and the problem had been solved. The invoicing issue had now been resolved.

Ms Cwele was not sure from where the training budget figures as queried by Members came. IPID was not aware of a decrease in the budget. Asset management had been a problem area. There had been a severe improvement. Supply chain management had been improved. A policy was in place. Various committees were in place to oversee this aspect. There was a split between immovable and portable assets.

Ms Cwele said that provincial heads were now classified as top management, and now fell under Programme 1 instead of Programme 2. This was why there was an apparent decrease in funding.

Ms van Wyk said that there was a common area between the work done by provincial heads regarding Programme 1 and Programme 2 objectives. It was still the case that too much was being spent on administration compared to operations. The recommended ratio was approximately 30% of administrative staff. She asked what was being done to curb staff turnover.

Ms Shange said that most of the responses would be provided in writing to ensure that Members received accurate figures. This would include a breakdown of how many staff were carried under the different programmes.

Ms van Wyk said that a critical concern from the previous year was the vacancy rate. A written response would be acceptable, but she was concerned that this was not a performance indicator currently.

Ms Shange said that there were currently 33 vacancies. Some had been carried over from the ICD structures and would be indicated in the written response.

Ms Cwele said that maintaining a vacancy rate of below 10% was an indicator.

The Chairperson said that an accurate figure was needed.

Mr Sesoko said that the interim policy on asset management had been put in place because staff were still being consulted on what the final policy should look like. The thirty-day feedback rule was on the completion of an investigation. Stakeholders should then be informed. The SOP called for an acknowledgement to stakeholders of receipt of a complaint, and monthly feedback. The report should be completed and reported to the complainant within thirty days.

Ms van Wyk said she had laid a complaint before the previous local government election. This had never been acknowledged nor had she received any feedback.

Mr Sesoko explained the process. A case would be referred to a manager who would ensure that due process was followed. An evaluation unit had been established to ensure compliance with procedures. This would be part of the performance agreements with provincial heads and investigators.

Ms van Wyk asked if Members could have sight of the MoU with the SAPS. She asked what was would be done for the public to report cases at SAPS stations, whether a register or in whatever other form. Having such a document would also increase the visibility of IPID.

Mr Sesoko replied that work was being done on how this could be done. There was already provision for normal service delivery complaints and a similar procedure could be followed.

Ms van Wyk said that SAPS was a national competency. Such discussions should be done nationally to prevent different interpretations at provincial level.

Mr Sesoko pointed out that the MoU still had to be signed. This would be taken into account.

The Chairperson asked what would be done regarding cases of corruption. IPID had reported on spending almost all its budget for the current FY. There had been underspending at the end of the third quarter, with only about 61% of the budget having being spent at that time. She was worried that there might have been some form of fiscal dumping.

Mr Sesoko said that the Knowledge Management Unit in IPID had looked at specific areas where there might be cases of systemic corruption. As a field of investigation, training intervention was needed to give the investigators specialist knowledge. SAPS was now obliged to report any allegations to IPID. They had recently engaged with the Americans to see where they could assist IPID both in terms of techniques and equipment. IPID should be able to deal with this issue appropriately.

Ms Cwele said that expenditure was below par. Payments for leases had been withheld, and only transferred to DPW during the third quarter. Some appointments had only been made in the fourth quarter. There had also been systematic problems regarding VAT payments which had seen payments having to be delayed.

Mr Ramatlakane asked how a job evaluation could delay payments.

Ms Cwele said that appointments could not be effected until the job evaluation process was completed. Funding was for the full year but could only be accessed in the final quarter.

Ms van Wyk said that a constable at Moot SAPS station had killed his girlfriend before committing suicide. This should be with the IPID. The shooting had occurred at the police station. Such cases should be referred to IPID immediately.

Mr Beukman replied that according to section 28(1), if a person was killed as a result of police action, the IPID would take over the matter and the police station involved would need to provide a report within 24 hours. That investigation needed to be reported to the IPID and they would take over the investigation. From the IPID perspective, there was provision in the regulations as well. The IPID gave assurance that there would be an investigation into such matters.

Mr Ramatlakane returned to the question of staff evaluations. He asked why job evaluations that had been delayed had in fact offered a balloon payment in the last quarter. He asked what the ingredient of this payment was. Was it back pay or was it something else?

Ms Cwele stated that his understanding was correct. Savings would be effected or redirected as virements. However she was unable to give details of the virements to date. As soon as that information was available it would be provided to the Committee.

The Chairperson said that the organisation had a huge responsibility. It had focused on a limited scope but now the scope had widened and this called for people to do more. This was why there was a need to ask where to from here? IPID needed to be serious about its work in order to succeed in the responsibilities it had been given. They were dealing with a powerful department which had not been dealt with in at least three years. The Committee acknowledged the limitations that were present relating to the budget. She wanted to believe that the organisation was capable of doing its job and out of the available budget something could be achieved. Newspapers had called for an effective IPID, one that knew what to do and one that would intervene. In the absence of that, there would be another piece of legislation passed but not implemented.

The Chairperson said that the Committee definitely planned to meet IPID before the end of the financial year in order to establish how far they were as well as ask what were the challenges and successes. This was important for the Committee. Whilst they appreciated there were new appointees, there was a decision as a Committee that they would not entertain this, as it gave an excuse for everyone to state that they were new. There were various issues that needed written responses. The first related to current staff establishment which included vacancies as well as future plans for the staff establishment. The Committee also wanted to know how many of the staff were management and how many were doing the core functions so that they were able to pick up if a potentially top heavy structure being created. Another issue the Committee needed a written response on baseline indicators for deaths in police custody. Also, there needed to be indicators for IPID recommendation compliance by SAPS. The Committee requested that these responses were received by 26 April, as there was to be a debate in May.

The Chairperson stated that the Committee would be watching IPID. If they were to do their work effectively the number of incident of police assault and torture, would decrease. There was a possibility that IPID would not be popular but this was something they had to deal with in order to do their work. Within a democratic country such as South Africa there was no reason to have incidents such as the Cato Manor incident. As the IPID had presented their budget, strategic plan, annual performance plan and priorities, the Committee was going to hold them accountable to what had been presented. The organisation would be expected within the course of the year to appear before the Committee and present what they had done. The Committee would also be monitoring the spending of its budget in order to know what exactly was happening. She thanked all those who had presented and also thanked members for their questions.

The meeting was adjourned

Independent Police Investigative Directorate
Type of matters to be investigated

28. (I) The Directorate must investigate

a) any deaths in police custody;

(b) deaths as a result of police actions;

(c) any complaint relating to the discharge of an official firearm by any police officer;

(d) rape by a police officer, whether the police officer is on or off duty;

(e) rape of any person while that person is in police custody;

(f) any complaint of torture or assault against a police officer in the execution of

his or her duties;

(g) corruption matters within the police initiated by the Executive Director on his

or her own, or after the receipt of a complaint from a member of the public, or

referred to the Directorate by the Minister, an MEC or the Secretary, as the

case may be; and

(h) any other matter referred to it as a result of a decision by the Executive

Director, or if so requested by the Minister, an MEC or the Secretary as the

case may be, in the prescribed manner.

(2) The Directorate may investigate matters relating to systemic corruption involving the police.

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