Meeting SummaryThe SAPS indicated that the objective of the Visible Policing programme was to discourage all crimes by providing a proactive and responsive policing service that would reduce the levels of priority crimes. The SAPS set itself a target of an additional 79 police stations rendering a victim friendly services in 2010/11, but only 10 Victim Support Rooms (VSRs) were established. Some of the set targets could not be achieved due to other priorities that had to be funded, including the 2010 FIFA World Cup. Stations were required to ensure that they all rendered a victim-friendly service by ensuring that members deployed for duties that required them to serve victims of crime were trained. The Department issued station orders to make provisions for services to victims, including arrangements for taking statements in privacy in the absence of a dedicated Victim Support room, and transporting victims.
The high visibility and vigilance of deployed members at the borderlines during the three comparative years resulted in the decrease of arrests and seizure of firearms, vehicles and undocumented persons. During 2009/2010 to 2010/2011, an increase in peaceful gatherings was attributed to good planning and cooperation of all relevant stakeholders as determined by Section 4 of the Regulation of Gatherings Act. During 2008/2009 to 2010/2011, an increase in unrest related incidents was attributed to unauthorised, unplanned, and spontaneous gatherings where no opportunity was afforded for stakeholders to plan and put in place security measures. The Chief Financial Officer indicated the budget allocations for the Crime Prevention programme.
The Committee was concerned that SAPS set itself targets it could not meet. Very few police stations had facilities with victim support rooms. However, the Committee appreciated the stunning work done by volunteers at victim sensitive facilities. Members agreed that the number of escapes from police custody was too high and asked if people were not helped by police to escape. Most police stations were of high quality with burglar bars and Members could not understand how people managed to escape. It was a concern for Members to see no target in confiscating illegal firearms. The safety and security of firearms at some police stations was shocking and the Committee wanted to know how SAPS would ensure that police firearms did not end up in the hands of criminals. Information on how many police firearms got lost should appear in the next Annual Report. SAPS 13 stores were described as a “nightmare”. The Chairperson reiterated that the reason for so many questions about firearms and licences derived from Member’s visits to police stations. She was furious that it had to take politicians to uncover the dysfunction within police stations and not management who was appointed for that task. It seemed as if members of police did not understand their job description while managers were failing their departments, but yet received promotions.
The Chairperson asked the Department to respond in writing to all the outstanding questions that were previously raised. She asked for more information on the legislation used for appointments and filling of vacancies within the Department. It seemed as if no performance bonuses were paid to officers in 2010 and the Chairperson needed more explanation on this and the procurement process, because it had indicated in a previous meeting that it took up to 90 working days for the procurement process. It was important for the Committee to know who was accountable administratively for the procurement process as well as who the members of the Bid Evaluation committee were, and their qualifications.
Mr Mluleki George (COPE) requested more information on the powers of police officers who were investigating other police officers and what their limitations were.
South African Police Service (SAPS) Annual Report on its Visible Policing Programme
National Police Commissioner, Mr Beki Cele, indicated that the high numbers of child murders and child abuse incidents in the Western Cape was worrisome. An eight year old boy was recently murdered in Gugulethu township and the alleged perpetrator had been identified. A 26 year old man was arrested the previous week in connection with 23 cases of rape on children while some of those rapes included murders. The Department was thinking of mobilising more psychologists and sociologists in an attempt to understand the origins of that kind of behaviour and trends, especially in the Western Cape. A man was arrested for 12 rapes in Mpumalanga the previous week and there were currently about 300 people awaiting life sentences. It seemed as if the prisons were going to be filled with people facing life sentences. It was also concerning that many people became victims of social media crimes via Facebook, Twitter and Mixit. People on those networking sites needed to be more vigilant and exercise more caution when interacting with strangers.
Actual Performance Against Targets
Lieutenant General Lesley Lebeya, SAPS Deputy National Commissioner (DNC), said the objective of the Visible Policing programme was to discourage all crimes by providing a proactive and responsive policing service that would reduce the levels of priority crimes. The SAPS set itself a target of an additional 79 police stations rendering a victim friendly services in 2010/11, but only 10 Victim Support Rooms (VSRs) were established. The target could not be achieved due to other priorities that had to be funded, including the 2010 FIFA World Cup, therefore funding could not be allocated for the establishment of VSRs in 2010/11. A budget would be allocated for that purpose during the following financial years. The target of conducting a minimum of 25 000 crime prevention actions in 2010/11 had been achieved. A number of 29 891 crime prevention actions were conducted. Those included intelligence driven operations, targeting 'hot spot' areas, according to the Crime Pattern Analysis (CPA) and Crime Threat Analysis (CTA) to prevent or reduce the levels of crime. The target had been achieved to reduce all serious crime by between 1 to 1.8% by 2010/11, and contact crimes had been reduced to 1 277 per 100 000 of the population.
Trio crimes had been reduced to 84 per 100 000 of the population. A target had been set to decrease the number of incidents of escapes from police custody by 50% in 2010/11. The target could not be achieved although there had been a decrease. Since escapes were identified as a strategic priority risk, measures and mechanisms put in place in that regard, were not yet cascaded down to police station level during 2010/11. This process was scheduled to be fully implemented during 2011/12. The target of conducting a minimum of 350 policing actions in 2010/11 was not achieved (only 241) due to the commitment of members to the 2010 FIFA World Cup and the withdrawal of SAPS members from borderline bases which were handed over to the SANDF.
The DNC said that stations were required to ensure that they all rendered a victim-friendly service by ensuring that members who served victims of crime were trained. Dedicated victim support rooms had to be established at police stations. The Department issued station orders to make provisions for services to victims, including arrangements for taking statements in privacy in the absence of a dedicated Victim Support room, and transporting victims.
In 2009/10, 101 police officials were murdered on and off duty. The staff complement was 190 199. The percentage per staff complement was 0.053%. In 2010/11, 93 police officials were murdered on and off duty. The staff complement was 193 892 and the percentage per staff complement was 0.048%
The number of firearms in SAPS 13 stores was reduced from 210 451 in March 2010 to 179 574 in March 2011. Provincial Commissioners identified 209 Provincial Priority police stations to be implemented by 30 June 2010 while only 208 police stations reportedly implemented sector policing by 30 June 2010. The SAPS Tarlton, a newly established police station (December 2009), experienced challenges. As a result, Sector Policing at Tarlton was only established by 30 September 2010. A moratorium on the recruitment of reservists was in place from 1 April 2009 until 10 December 2009, and was lifted by the Minister of Police and the National Commissioner. The South African Police Service had, however not enlisted new reservists pending the review of the reservist system that was being undertaken. The purpose of the review was to improve the process for utilisation and management of reservists, and to adopt new enhanced criteria for the selection and recruitment. A Rural Safety Plan was implemented to address the phasing out of the SANDF Commando System. During 2010/2011, the strategy was reviewed to accommodate the borderline policing approach; the need for improving responses to the high number of incidents of crime in rural areas, stock theft, also across borders; and to accommodate changes in the use of reservists.
All police stations had established Community Police Forums (CPFs). A training programme was developed to ensure that all CPF members, newly appointed and existing, shared a common understanding of the functioning of those structures. SAPS continued to support CPFs in terms of the Interim Regulations for Community Police Forums and Boards. CPFs were accommodated to execute its duties where office space was available at stations or provincial offices, and transport was also made available. SAPS was responsible for the Monitoring and Evaluation of the implementation of the Domestic Violence Act at provincial, cluster and police station level. As part of the Monitoring and Evaluation Framework, police stations were identified and prioritised for visits during the year for the purpose of assessing compliance with visible policing prescripts. During 2010/2011, 58 compliance visits were conducted. Shortcomings found during these visits were addressed through in-service training. Corrective actions and feedback was also given.
Reports in terms of Section 18 of the Domestic Violence Act had been submitted up to December 2010. It included non-compliance by members; the disciplinary proceedings instituted; and steps taken as a result of recommendations made by the new Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID). The Minister had commissioned an enquiry into the functioning of the Central Firearms Registry (CFR) during June 2010. As part of implementing the recommendations from this enquiry, a project was constituted to address the backlog within the CFR to be completed during 2011/12. The Firearm Control Amendment Act had been implemented on the 10 January 2011.
The high visibility and vigilance of deployed members at the borderline during the three comparative years resulted in the decrease of arrests and seizure of firearms, vehicles and undocumented persons. Thus, criminals used alternative routes when noticing high visibility - they took less chance with firearms and stolen vehicles. Zimbabweans were also granted concessions, so even if they had no documents they were not arrested but taken to the nearest Home Affairs office. There was an increase in the arrest and seizure of drugs and illegal goods due to improved search methods and equipment used by members.
During 2009/2010 to 2010/2011, an increase in peaceful gatherings was attributed to good planning and cooperation of all relevant stakeholders as determined by Section 4 of the Gathering Act. During 2008/2009 to 2010/2011, an increase in unrest related incidents was attributed to unauthorised, unplanned, and spontaneous gatherings where no opportunity was afforded for stakeholders to plan and put in place security measures. SAPS Air Wing flew 8,463.3 hours in 2010/11 (6,715 hours for crime-related matters). Flying hours were being allocated according to a 20% communication hours and 80% crime prevention hours principle. The 80% crime prevention hours included call-out to crime incidents as well as hours flown for planned operations. The 20% communication hours were used for the training of pilots, maintenance flights, air shows and VIP transport.
Expenditure Programme 2010/11
The Chief Financial Officer (CFO) provided a breakdown of the budget allocation for the Crime Prevention programme which had a budget of R19,9 billion. The spending priorities were discussed.
[See document for details]
Ms D Kohler-Barnard (DA) asked for more information on the victim support rooms, because she heard reports that rooms were not established in some police stations and victims had to stand around in shame. It was a great concern to see that SAPS set targets which it could not meet. She wanted to know why people who offered their services to SAPS for free were turned away.
The Chairperson said that very few police stations had facilities with victim sensitive rooms. However, she appreciated the stunning work done by volunteers at victim sensitive facilities. It had been noted that some volunteers got a stipend, especially in Gauteng, but she was not sure about the other provinces. The issue should be looked into because there must be uniformity among all provinces when compensating volunteers.
Mr G Schneemann (ANC) noted that two targets were not achieved as indicated on pages 56 and 58 of the Annual Report due to the 2010 Soccer World Cup. He asked why SAPS set targets it could not achieve. The victim sensitive support centres were way behind schedule and he asked SAPS what it would do to resolve the backlog. The target under the number of escapes had not been met. He asked whether the Department put all mechanisms and operational plans in place to reach a target before it was set. It would be helpful for the Committee to get the information on what criteria was used to determine the number of sectors in a police station. The report indicated that all borderline security functions and bases had been handed over to the South African National Defence Force (SANDF), however it did not state what happened to all the equipment and personnel. He failed to understand why people did not get arrested during protests and the matter needed to be looked at.
Mr M George (COPE) said that most police stations were of high quality with burglar bars. He could not understand how some people managed to escape from police custody. The number of escapes was still too high and he asked if people were not helped by police to escape. It was worrisome to see how many police officers were murdered on and off duty and the matter needed serious investigation as to why it happened at such an alarming rate.
Ms P Mochumi (ANC) said the excuse of using the 2010 Soccer World Cup for not reaching targets did not make sense. The country knew years in advance that it was going to host the 2010 Soccer World Cup and it seemed as if SAPS was only informed a year before the event. The 50% target on escapes might not have been reached due to mechanisms that were not in place in police stations. She asked if SAPS was satisfied that the people trained on the Sexual Offences Act were competent to fulfill what they had been trained for.
Mr G Lekgetho (ANC) asked if SAPS consider using retired detectives. He wanted to know the reasons if SAPS was not able to consider them.
Rev K Meshoe (ACDP) asked if there was no concern from SAPS that so many people were escaping from police custody and he wanted an explanation why there was no urgency in addressing the issue. It was concerning to see no target for confiscating illegal firearms. The safety and security of firearms at some police stations was shocking. How would SAPS ensure that police firearms did not end up in the hands of criminals. It was a concern to see such a low target for reducing serious crime because most South Africans did not feel safe.
Mr V Ndlovu (IFP) wanted to know what happened to police who lost their firearms and how long did it take SAPS to reach a judgment. He asked what happened in cases where findings indicated that members of police were negligent or sold the firearms. He did not understand why some people from Zimbabwe were not arrested when they were found to be in the country illegally. Instead they were taken to Home Affairs to complete documentation, whilst other foreigners such as Somalians, were arrested.
Mr M George (COPE) said he did not know if victim friendly services were responding well at police stations and managers should take responsibility. He asked for more information on sector policing. It had been noted that the seizure in terms of firearms and vehicles went down instead of up. It was supposed to go up because there were many illegal firearms in circulation while more vehicles had been stolen. He asked if the approach of police created a violent atmosphere during peaceful protests.
Mr P Groenewald (FF+) said many firearms got lost in SAPS and asked how many of those firearms were recovered. The Minister of Police had confirmed that the Police Commissioner had the crime statistics on farm murders. He did not understand why the Commissioner did not want to release those statistics. He asked if SAPS members got special training for crowd control and if SAPS was considering new non-lethal mechanisms and weapons for crowd control.
Ms A van Wyk (ANC) noted that Mr Groenewald was not present when SAPS made a presentation on crowd control, but she was more than willing to share the information with him. She wanted to see all the information on how many police firearms got lost in the following Annual Report. She asked for the location where all the escapes took place and how many were assisted by police. She wanted to know the constraints affecting sector policing and why police officers could not get GPS to make policing much better. SAPS 13 stores were a nightmare and she asked what the plans were to better the situations of those stores, because the effective running of those stores were crucial for a high conviction rate.
Ms D Kohler-Barnard (DA) asked about the state of pilots in SAPS and why there was such a low promotion rate (0.9%) in the whole SAPS. It had come to her attention that the Lieutenant Colonel who arrested the Facebook rapist had been in that position for 16 years.
Ms M Molebatsi (ANC) asked if divers were part of SAPS and why they were never mentioned.
The Chairperson said that weak sector policing might be due to the lack of management who did not provide good and effective management strategies. She was waiting for the day when police would present effectively implemented management strategies. She asked how the Commissioner made Head of Divisions account for their duties and responsibilities because it was worrying if Members of Parliament had to make Heads of Divisions aware of the shortcomings in their duties and responsibilities. The Committee congratulated SAPS for what had been achieved but there were still lots of room for improvement. She asked if Head of Divisions and managers were aware of the condition of SAPS 13 stores and wanted to know how patrols were defined and accounted for. It would be interesting for the Committee to get an understanding on the correlation between arrest figures and specific crimes both at national and provincial level. It had also been noted that there were provinces that did not perform well regarding crime statistics.
Response from Commissioner
The Police Commissioner said that the divers were part of the specialised forces of SAPS.
Reasons for Targets not met
The mostly spoken about subject before the 2010 Soccer World Cup was not soccer, but safety and security. SAPS had to go the extra mile to see that the prophets of doom did not have their way. Many people had to be pulled in who were not initially part of the security measures, especially during the strikes by security companies. The people trained for crowd control was 8 500. People had to be withdrawn from their normal duties to attend to the World Cup safety and security demands. The absence of some police officers on their normal posts caused a huge diversion. Germany spoke about their players wearing bullet proof vests and England spoke about stab-proof vests so SAPS had to go to great lengths to counter those statements. SAPS had to go to Zurich to convince FIFA and many other people that South Africa was safe, and had to convince Interpol to be on its side. Therefore some targets could not be met because of safety and security challenges that arose before the World Cup.
The Commissioner said there was progress in sector policing but agreed that there should be more emphasis on the notion. Gauteng remained the best in sector policing and all police officers had cellphone numbers where the public could reach them in cases of emergencies, instead of dialing 10111. SAPS did put measures in place to strengthen sector policing and invited various stakeholders to benchmark best practice on the issue.
The Commissioner said that he hoped Mr Groenewald asked the Minister why the statistics were presented in its current form. It was going to be a very complicated and time-consuming process if crime statistics regarding murders had to be released by people’s occupation like farmers, lawyers, gardeners, doctors, cleaners, etc.
The Commissioner hoped that his statement would not be misinterpreted regarding reservists. Some reservists were a problem and there was once a shootout between a reservist and police. Many reservists joined SAPS and later made demands to be permanently employed by SAPS and therefore they used the reservist route as recruitment into SAPS. It should be noted that some did not even meet the requirements to join SAPS.
Stock theft units had been put up and restructured to areas where there was a demand. SAPS bought quad bikes, mobilised officers on horses, and deployed off road vehicles to ensure rural safety. It should be noted that there was a reduction in stock theft.
Seizure of stolen vehicles
SAPS noted that stolen vehicles were parked for about 3 to 4 days. SAPS no more collected stolen vehicles but waited for the thieves to collect the vehicles and then arrested them. Vehicles were mostly stolen in Johannesburg, Tshwane, and Durban because those cities were closer to the borders. Cape Town had a low rate of stolen vehicles because it was far from the border. Police visibility in marked and unmarked vehicles helped to reduce hijackings. The Ghost Squad played a great role because criminals could not see the police.
Victim friendly facilities
SAPS took the issue of victim friendly facilities very seriously and the services of all volunteers were highly appreciated. It was the Commissioner’s wish for some volunteers to be placed in a programme where they could get qualifications in the type of services they offered.
The Commissioner was not happy about the issue of lost firearms of police officers. There was currently a big war between Heads of Divisions and Managers regarding lost firearms and the police were trying by all means to deal with the issue.
There were many protests taking place in South Africa but it was never said how much of the budget it took and the exhaustion it caused police officers. It should be noted that extra personnel, equipment and machinery were used during protests. It was the constitutional right of people to protest and there was nothing from the Police Commissioner stating that police must shoot to kill. The emphasis was for police to act within the law because people had rights. The “shoot to kill” statement meant that when officers were about to make an arrest and their lives were in danger, than they must “shoot to kill.” It should be noted that there were legal and illegal protests, and there were those that turned absolutely violent. The issue that was not taken into consideration was the level of provocation police had to endure during protests. Police officers were trained for crowd control and they would be mobilised in all provinces. Police who were involved in crowd control had to wear protective gear and SAPS also used water canons to disperse crowds. Police officers who deviated from the crowd control procedures faced disciplinary action, however prosecution was not encouraged. Organisers of protests should take responsibility and stop blaming it on criminal activities when protests turn ugly.
Response by Deputy National Commissioner
Border equipment and personnel
Equipment used by police at the border was handed over to border posts while some was used within the police. A few SAPS members were in permanent posts at borders while others were on detached duties. Members of the police no longer received call-ups now that the SANDF had taken over. Some police offices were staffed at border posts.
Home Affairs issue/Zimbabweans special treatment
The issue about Zimbabwean citizens being illegally in the country and than taken to Home Affairs for documentation was a once off call by the Minister of Home Affairs. The dispensation was over now and Zimbabweans found to be illegally in the country were treated like all illegal citizens.
In reply to Mr V Ndlovu (IFP) asking what would be done if the illegal person was involved in criminal activity, the DNC replied that the matter would be dealt with like any other criminal case.
The DNC thought they could manage with the number of pilots they currently had. There were 52 pilot posts and 49 of those posts were filled.
The Chairperson asked how old the pilots were and what the succession plan was.
Mr P Groenewald (FF+) asked how many reservists were used as pilots.
The DNC responded that two of the pilots would be retiring soon and there were 11 student pilots. SAPS did call on pilot reservists when their services were needed.
Response by Commissioner
The Commissioner said he had received numerous calls from people requesting the police to return to the Zimbabwe-Limpopo border.
Mr P Groenewld (FF+) asked about the nature of the relationship between SAPS and the SANDF. He wanted to know if there was good follow up or were there differences.
The Chairperson indicated that the Committee would have a combined meeting with the SANDF, SAPS, South African Revenue Service (SARS), and Home Affairs where some questions and concerns could be raised by Committee Members.
The Commissioner said he had met with the Head of the SANDF and they had spoken about sharing resources, training and measures that would help both entities to function better.
Response from Deputy National Commissioner
Lost police firearms and firearm licences
Every lost firearm within SAPS generated a criminal case docket which needed internal investigation. Although a number of firearms were recovered, most serial numbers were filed off which made it difficult to link the recovered firearm to the lost firearm.
Ms M Molebatsi (ANC) asked if a police officer who lost a firearm was given a replacement.
Ms P Mocumi (ANC) asked if the recovered firearms were taken for ballistic testing.
The Chairperson said the reason so many questions were asked about lost firearms was an indication of the frustration of Members, because the answers given by the delegation did not match the reality of what was witnessed at police stations.
Ms A van Wyk (ANC) did not believe that the figure presented in the presentation for lost firearms was correct. She asked for an explanation on how SAPS ensured that firearms control became a daily issue.
Ms D Kohler-Barnard (DA) asked how the situation on firearm licences improved while they found approximately 3 500 firearm licences hidden in a box at Johannesburg central police station.
The DNC replied that there must be a case opened for every lost firearm and when a firearm was found, SAPS first looked at the circumstances from where the firearm came, because the person found with the firearm would be charged with the possession of an illegal firearm.
The Chairperson asked for the findings on all recovered firearms.
The DNC replied that he did not have the information at hand; he would go back to check the dockets and make the information available to the Committee. It should be noted that when a firearm was recovered, a check was done to see if the firearm was used in other criminal activities (ballistic process). The ballistic process helped to link a number of cases where the same firearms were used.
The Chairperson requested information on how crimes were linked to firearms and the whole ballistic process because the information had to be in the interest of management and the Committee.
Ms D Kohler-Barnard asked if SAPS had any comment on the Appeals Commission.
The Chairperson reiterated that the reason for so many questions about firearms and licences derived from Member’s visits to police stations. She was furious that it had to take politicians to uncover the dysfunction within police stations and not management who was appointed for those tasks. It seemed as if members of police did not understand their job description while managers were failing their departments, but yet received promotions.
Ms A van Wyk (ANC) said it was shocking to hear that 15 000 firearm licences were not distributed from police stations. The whole issue was very frustrating and indicated a lack of leadership by police management.
Mr P Groenewald (FF+) said the frustration from the public was more than the frustration of the Committee.
Response from Commissioner
The Commissioner said he had recently gone to Musina police station and noted firearm licences in one of the offices. When asked why, the police officer replied that he was chasing after the owners but could not get them to collect their firearm licences. The responsibility should be from both SAPS and the owners to ensure that licences reached the owners. SAPS called owners and sent an SMS reminding them to collect their licences, but there was always a poor response.
Ms Kohler-Barnard said she understood what the Commissioner said about the distribution of firearm licences, but she knew of someone who got arrested for an illegal firearm while waiting for a new licence.
Mr Groenewald noted that the old licence was valid until the person received the new one. Many people did not receive the information that their licence was ready because their contact number changed.
The Chairperson understood what the Commissioner shared about people failing to collect their licence but the situation needed serious improvement on the part of the police because there were better ways of dealing with the process. The notion of accountability in the distribution of licence should be looked at.
The Commissioner highlighted that Gauteng had the largest backlog in the distribution of firearm licences. Phone calls and SMS would still be used to inform owners about the availability of their new licence. There was a mechanism for appeal in place.
Response from Deputy National Commissioner
Escapes from custody
SAPS did not wish to see any escapes from police custody but it happed sometimes. SAPS therefore had put mechanisms in place to counter escapes. Police officials had been sent to foreign countries to benchmark best practice on preventing escapes from police custody. The main challenge was that some mechanisms were not effectively implemented at station level.
In reply to the Chairperson asking the CFO if a budget was provided for inspections of police stations, the CFO said that a budget was provided for inspections.
Ms A van Wyk (ANC) wanted to know the reasons and circumstances which led to the escape of 191 people. She expressed her concern on the many people who had escaped from community service centres.
The Chairperson noted that some people entered cells with illegal equipment such as cutters, belts and shoelaces. She failed to understand why politicians picked those up in the cells and not management who were in charge. Inspections of institutions should be the duty of the management in charge.
Response from Commissioner
The Commissioner said they were working towards changing certain traditions within SAPS. They had started visiting police stations to watch and listen what was happening at stations. It was very disturbing to find all the irregularities at police stations especially those who were under high ranking officers such as in Tshwane. The visiting of police stations was underway and was not going to stop. One of the challenges at police stations was the high mobility of outside contacts and most people who jumped were people awaiting trial at police stations. SAPS was working on the challenges and the style of management had changed. The Commissioner heard a lot of lies when visiting police stations and many people were still attached to the old order of doing things. They did not embrace change and deliberately did not do things that encouraged change.
Response from Deputy National Commissioner
Killing of police officers
The DNC said the Minister had introduced a 10 point plan to curb the killing of police officers and the compulsory wearing of bullet proof vests was one of those.
The Chairperson said she was told that some police officers used SAPS 13 store firearms to commit crimes while others gave the firearms to criminals. The issue surrounding SAPS 13 stores and the police firearms needed to be looked into and corrected. She acknowledged the shortcomings but it was important for people to be held accountable.
Ms P Mochumi (ANC) asked if SAPS received the expected results on training programmes within the Department.
Major General S Kwena replied that not all police officials passed their courses, but those who did, were showed to be very competent on what they had been trained.
The Chairperson thanked SAPS for coming.
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