Police Portfolio Committee Report on UK/Canada Study Tour on DNA Evidence

Meeting report

Committee Report on UK/Canada Study Tour on DNA Evidence
The Committee considered its Report and made corrections where necessary but did not adopt the Report.

Ms Kohler-Barnard (DA) asked for a clearer definition of 'child loadable hashes', regarding child pornography in the report, saying it was such a technical term that laypersons could possibly not comprehend it.

Ms A van Wyk (ANC) suggested replacing 'child loadable hashes' with the word 'images'

Ms Kohler-Barnard said if the Committee was itself unclear perhaps it required further refinement in the report.

Ms L Chikunga (ANC) said DNA was an expensive science especially for a country with limited means such as South Africa and this needed to be acknowledged.

Ms Kohler-Barnard said in the UK the DNA Database was kept completely separate from the laboratory and it was important for the report to reflect this.

Ms van Wyk said the noteworthy successes of the DNA familial searches division in the UK were not adequately reflected in the report.

Ms Kohler-Barnard said the designated familial searches team had attained major successes by using this method.

Ms Chikunga said the UK had no legislation governing familial searches and it was simply dealt with as a matter of police policy.

Ms Kohler-Barnard said there were concerns that black people were disproportionately affected by the use of DNA profiling, but perhaps more research into the facts of this matter was required before such assertions could be made.

Ms van Wyk said groups that were more prevalent on the DNA database would have a higher conviction rate. But this was a complex matter that, if entertained, Ms Chikunga would have to call her and Ms Kohler-Barnard to order very soon. The fact was, this was reported to the Committee and should be reflected in the report.

Ms Chikunga said this report reflected issues pertaining to the use of DNA in the UK and Canada and it should simply be treated as such. She suggested the right not to give incriminating evidence and issues of privacy should be including in the constitutional concerns listed in the report.

Ms Kohler-Barnard asked why a DNA profile was said to raise questions of privacy and other human rights concerns when fingerprints did not. The information that could be gathered from the DNA profile was not comprehensive enough to be considered an invasion of privacy.

Ms van Wyk said the report simply referred to constitutional issues that may be relevant based on the UK and Canadian experience. It was important that the Committee abstained from making value judgements at that stage. The information contained in the DNA profile was limited but the DNA sample itself could confirm whether a person suffered from certain serious illnesses.

Ms Chikunga said the DNA sample could also result in familial profiling; thereby affecting a person’s whole family and this should perhaps be balanced with the right of control over one’s body.

Ms Kohler-Barnard said everyone was very impressed that the UK resolved many outstanding criminal cases by using DNA samples of convicted criminals.

Ms van Wyk said the report stated that South Africa could also consider this path, if the department had adequate capacity.

Ms Kohler-Barnard said legislation had been considered for a very long time in the UK to enforce the removal of DNA profiles, as confirmed by various UK members of Parliament. She said the report should reflect that the outcome of this legislative process was not yet concluded.

Ms Chikunga said that the amended report would be circulated by the following week for possible adoption.

Committee Minutes
Ms Chikunga noted only five members were present and two more were required for a quorum.

Ms van Wyk suggested the Committee review all the outstanding minutes and simply adopt all the minutes when a quorum was achieved. She added that the Committee should decide on the format of minutes: whether they should simply refer to key issues or should be in depth.

Ms Chikunga said the Committee should stick to the brief version of the minutes.

Afternoon session
The Committee considered and adopted the following minutes: 16 August, 14 June, 19 April, 31 March, 30 March, 29 March, 22 March, 15 March, 3 March, 22 February, 15 February 2011.

Ms van Wyk said in future the minutes of meetings should be adopted the very next day as the Committee was adopting minutes as far back as February 2011, based solely on the collective memories of members present at a meeting in September 2011.

Mr V Ndlovu (IFP) seconded the proposal and said this should not be a time constraint, as minutes of meetings should be brief and not exhaustive.

Ms Chikunga said the SAPS was required to forward a report to the Committee every six months on domestic violence but only two of these reports had been found.

Ms Kohler-Barnard asked if there was a record indicating whether departments complied with the deadlines or requests for information made by the Committee.

Ms Chikunga said she would look into this suggestion.

Ms Chikunga said the SAPS received a R3.6 billion budget allocation for Information Technology alone for 2011/12. The total SAPS budget was R58 billion compared to the Department of Environment and Tourism budget of R1 billion but one should “just go to the nearest police office…….. “

Ms Chikunga thanked the Committee for its hard work; deliberating the entire day to complete the outstanding administrative tasks. Most of the outstanding minutes of meetings were adopted but the minutes of two meetings in April required more substantive amendments before adoption, and would be addressed later.

Ms Chikunga said unfortunately time did not allow the Committee to address the Gauteng Oversight Report but the Committee could adopt it at a later stage. She asked members who wished to attend the release of crime statistics in Pretoria on the 09 September and later the Peoples Parliament in Bloemfontein to confirm with Parliament so their travel arrangements could be finalised. She said perhaps in future the crime statistics could be released in Cape Town thus saving the Committee a flight to Pretoria.

Meeting adjourned.