Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 22 Sep 2023


No summary available.


Watch here: Plenary 

The House met at 10:03

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.



Question 13:

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, because it is Heritage Month and it’s a Friday, members have assured me that they are going to go easy, especially the DA, go easy today. Hon Speaker, the question was posed to us during our last appearance in this Chamber in June, and we take it very seriously. Together with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, we have identified, through the state of local government report, 66 municipalities that require immediate support. The challenges facing local government are multidimensional and are primarily
rooted in the following, amongst others, poor governance, weak institutional capacity, poor financial management, and political instability. To this end, we have conducted oversight visits to six provinces, namely, the North West, Gauteng, Free State, KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape, and Mpumalanga, and this was to ensure that we resolve the challenges of poor governance and lack of service delivery in these areas.

Furthermore, during our outreach programme, we have identified areas for improvement in co-ordinating service delivery interventions related to infrastructure backlogs and providing access to essential services. We are, hon Speaker, also working through the District Development Model, DDM, to improve intergovernmental relations between government spheres on policy planning, budgeting, and execution. Together with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, we established what we call the Result Management Office, RMO, which will be used to strengthen this work. The RMO will focus, amongst others, on ensuring in that municipalities improve service delivery with support and capacity from the war room, an engine for integrated service delivery that links to the community, co-ordinates profiles, and integrate service delivery, bringing about improvement
through a range of measures designed to empower municipalities to execute projects in a manner that is consistent with the best practices and improved processes across the local government sphere, addressing resources, capacity, and skills constraints in the local government space, and finally, facilitate improvements in planning, co-ordination, executing monitoring and reporting on the delivery of projects.

Hon Speaker, we aim to create resilient, sustainable, and cohesive communities where municipalities serve as catalysts and enablers of development. I thank you.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION (Ms S Gwarube): Thank you, Madam Speaker, Deputy President, it is common cause that problems that have engulfed our metro governments across the country have been due to decades of mismanagement, cadre deployment, a lack of maintenance of critical infrastructure, and the theft of public money. In fact, the governing party’s 2021 manifesto, promised to drastically improve the state of roads, critical infrastructure, and service delivery alongside local and provincial governments, but that was already a dishonest undertaking, Deputy President. The ANC has presided over these cities and towns for years and did not do any pre- emptive maintenance work, instead funds were looted. Our towns
and cities are falling apart because of decades of neglect and corruption to the point where a city like Johannesburg is now exploding and costing people’s lives. Over 70 people tragically lost their lives in a hijacked building that caught fire in Johannesburg several weeks ago and the entire street exploded in the city centre due to the lack of critical infrastructure. You have been tasked with championing service delivery as the Deputy President. Will you at least be honest with South Africans and apologize for the mismanagement and the theft at local government that has left places like Johannesburg at the mess that it is in today?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Gwarube, when the President appointed me as Deputy President of the Republic of South Africa, amongst others, he asked me to visit various provinces where there are service delivery challenges to intervene and ensure that we can deal with those problems. So, the issues that you are raising about challenges, whether in Johannesburg or any of these areas, are problems that we are aware of and that is the reason I indicated earlier that I have already visited several areas in the country in Gauteng. I have been to Emfuleni where there were water challenges and other challenges. Some of the challenges in Joburg are very recent, but we will also be going to Johannesburg to deal with those
challenges. Yes, it is true that in some of our municipalities the state of the roads is not in good order, but a lot of work is happening. If, for instance, look at the North West - those of you who may be following - the premier has been involved in what they call Thuntsha Lerole, I don't know what it means in English. Now, I have been briefed by the premier that they are closing all potholes in the North West. They are dealing with potholes, closing potholes, and engaging in various other service delivery challenges. So, work is happening in various municipalities. It is not like there are challenges and the ANC is not doing anything. If you go to the Free State, I have been to Jagersfontein, a lot of work is now happening in that area. Deputy Minister Parks Tau has been there three times to deal with issues there. So, in short, Speaker, let me say to hon Gwarube that the ANC is on the ground, it is dealing with these issues, and in fact, where service delivery challenges have been because of councilors that have been appointed in those areas, we intervene and bring in new councilors that can do better work. So, we are intervening, and I am confident that we are going to improve service delivery on the ground.
Thank you, hon Speaker.


Mr B M HADEBE: Hon Speaker ...

Andifuni ukungatsho ...


Today, you look like supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. ... [Inaudible.] ... Thank you, Deputy President, your response highlights the need for all three spheres of government to comprehend and appreciate the importance of working together if we are to resolve the challenges facing local government. Hon Deputy President, firstly, may you please indicate to the nation and some members in the House the negative consequences and the impact of one sphere of government refusing to collaborate and work together in an integrated manner?
Secondly, please indicate to us whether our democratic government has measures in place to mitigate such resistance and enforce intergovernmental relations, as we have seen in the recent past in the taxi strike in Cape Town and the illegal occupation of Central Line in Nyanga and Philippi? I thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Speaker, hon member, you will recall that one of the pieces of legislation that we have in place is the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act, and that was to ensure precisely that that we are able to work
together as national, provincial, and local government. But also, when there are challenges on the ground, provinces have the responsibility to intervene. They can use section 139 to intervene, like it happened, for instance, when there were challenges in Tshwane, MEC Maile invoked this section to be able to intervene there. There is also section 154, which is about providing support. So, if there are challenges in the local government sphere, national government and provincial governments have an obligation to provide support so that municipalities can continue to provide service delivery. We are also using the DDM as a vehicle to co-ordinate these efforts. In fact, I must say, hon members, that in all the provinces I visited, the DDM was well-received - as I indicated, to the provinces where I have visited - I have not found any resistance. I still must come to the Western Cape. I hope I will be well-received as well. [Interjections.] I am so happy. They say I am going to be well-received in the Western Cape ... because, hon members, it is important that we work together. Finger-pointing does not help. Unless somebody does not want to co-operate then you can blame them for that, but where all of us are willing to work together, let us do so because when we co-ordinate and pull resources together as we do in DDM, that benefits people on the ground. It is about service delivery; it is about improving the lives of the
people on the ground. So, yes, co-ordination is important, working together is important, and is also provided for in legislation. Thank you very much, hon member.

Mr M MANYI: Thank you, Madam Speaker, Deputy President, the entire country is a service delivery hot spot, not just one area, but the entire country. Earlier this year, Mr Ramaphosa indicated that 163 of the 257 municipalities, which is over 60%, are completely dysfunctional. If municipalities are the closest level of government to the people and have been allowed to degenerate to this level of disaster and those responsible for this mess are never prosecuted or held to account in any other way. How else do you plan to fix this lack of service delivery to our people? Why has there been no follow-up on the findings and recommendations of the Auditor- General on all these municipalities over the years and what exactly is it that you are planning to do to fix this mess?
Thank you.


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon Manyi, as I said earlier that we are already intervening, we are aware that 66 municipalities, as I said, were identified as dysfunctional, but already the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is intervening. We are supporting and
working with them. In the long run, we want to ensure that all the municipalities are properly run. I did say at some point when speaking on this matter, that the ANC itself has now intervened in many of these areas and when there are by- elections or new elections, we make sure that we are able to get the right people to be appointed in those areas. If it comes to mayors, for instance, you may be aware that all mayors of the ANC are now interviewed by the leadership. So, we go through their curricula vitae, we interview, and appoint the best. When it comes to metros, the President leads those interviews himself. So, we are not taking chances because we consider municipalities very important - as you are saying that they are the first line of defense, closer to the people
- So, we are making sure that the leaders in those areas go through rigorous interviews, the Speakers are interviewed, and the Chief Whips, and as a result, we are going to see great improvements in those areas. But also, national, and provincial governments must continue to support municipalities so that we do not leave them on their own because in some of them, the problem is not just leadership, or poor governance, but also a lack of economic activity. There are municipalities in South Africa where there is no economic base. So, we need to look at that, and in fact, at some point, we were thinking that we may even need to merge some of those so that we are
able to give them some capacity to be able to have some economic base to generate revenue. But yes, hon Manyi, we are intervening. Thank you very much for your question.

Question 14:

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, as the Chairperson of the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Land Reform and Agriculture, I have been proactively engaging with the Minister on various issues, including this one that member Shivambu is raising.
The issue of land claims is sensitive, and we treat it with the utmost urgency and care that it deserves. During a recent interaction with the Minister and members of the Inter- Ministerial Committee, IMC, I was presented with a report that indicates that as of June 30 this year, there are 5 407 outstanding old order claims rather than 6 600, as indicated by member Shivambu, a discrepancy of almost about 1 100 that exists from the claims made. Hon Shivambu may be unaware of the updated report, but there is some movement now that is taking place.

The government has since adopted several interventions to support the accelerations of land reform programmes. This includes but is not limited to the following: The National Council of Provinces is currently considering the
Expropriation Bill; secondly, the Land Court Amendment Bill which includes provision for communal land transfer, registration, title and appointment of land rights enquiry has been sent to the President for assent. The Bill aims to regulate the administration and use of communal land by communities within the framework of applicable laws, including spatial planning and land use management; thirdly, the revision of the Property Valuation Act to provide for precise scope of the office of the Valuer-General and methodology to determine a just and equitable compensation; fourthly, the development of an overarching integrated land administration policy framework that prioritises documenting all land and legislation to underpin economic, social, institutional and environmental sustainability; fifthly, identifying land needs within cities and towns to inform the land reform programme prioritising land needs for human settlements, industry, economic, and urban agricultural development to change spatial patterns and enhance socioeconomic advancements; and lastly, the strategic acquisition, release and allocation of land, which includes the release of the remaining parcels of land for restitution purposes and, equally important, the post settlement support required to ensure the successful usage and application of land that has been released.
Hon Speaker, the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Land Reform and Agriculture will continue to review the best plausible options to improve overall financing of the backlog and, particularly the backlog reduction strategy as introduced by the commission, also to accelerate the settlement of all older claims so that we can resolve this matter within a reasonably shorter period. Thank you very much, hon Speaker.

Mr M MANYI: In his stand, Madam Speaker, through you to the Deputy President, it is common cause that land restitution programme has really been a completeness since inception. You have thus far spent R50 billion to settle some 76 000 claims since 1998, and half of this money went towards compensating white landowners and a chunk of the other half went towards subsidising these white farmers as strategic partners to the land restitution claimants. There are still over 100 000 land claims that are sealed until the finalisation of the 1998, land claims. Land restitution has benefited white farmers more than it has land claimants and most of these claimed pumps are not being put into use because there is no post-settlement support for land claimants. Have you, as government, conducted a review of this programme of land reform to assess its continued desirability? If so, what is a basis of your belief
that this programme of land reform is useful in your attempts to reclaim the land? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, through you to hon Manyi, as I said earlier that the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Land Reform has been revitalised. I Chair that committee and we have already met more than once and the Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development and the Deputy are part of that committee. We are prioritising this matter because, indeed, we have realised that it is costing a lot of money, taking too long, but we have realised that there are some challenges that we have to deal with. Let me indicate that amongst them would be the question of overlapping rights, in some instances. Sometimes the claims are very complex, and there are competing claims. In some instances, land claimants do overcharge or let me say that they inflate the prices of land. Therefore, we have to contain with that because you are quite right that we have spent a lot of money already.

However, I looked at the report, which was provided to the Inter-Ministerial Committee that, in fact, we have really made some progress because 83 000 claimants have been processed, but we are still having this 5 000 that we need to conclude, and we are trying to make sure that we don’t spend the kind of
billions of rands that we have spent before. Therefore, we are going to look at these issues, look at the budgets. However, in some instances, the delays because of also land invasions in some areas, you have land invasions and, in some areas, landowners challenge the validity of claims. However, I don’t think it is a programme that we should abandon. My view is that the Inter-Ministerial Committee should look at the defects, correct it and make sure that we can complete it faster but within a reasonable budget, because if we proceed in the manner in which we did, we estimated that it could cost us up to R172 billion over the next 30 years.

We want to do it shorter within a reasonable budget. However, of course, in some instances, where you want to move fast, you can’t because of some of the challenges I have indicated, but the Inter-Ministerial Committee is now seized with this matter. Thank you very much, hon Manyi will convey that to hon Shivambu.

Ms B TSHWETE: Madam Speaker, through you to hon Deputy President, with the elements of criminality and orchestrated delay tactics towards achieving land reform and restitution, mainly zisenziwa [which is still being done] by the ones
seated on your left-hand side, all of them. What mechanisms can be used ... [Interjections.]

Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: Just read your question. Just read your question.

Ms B TSHWETE: ... what mechanisms can be used to intervene in order to rectify the injustices of the past? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon member. You know one of the big challenges as you deal with issues of land restitution and redistribution is also a problem of crime and corruption that is involved. Therefore, what the President has done, he presented to Cabinet, and we approved a national anticorruption strategy and also the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, is also investigating those matters. However, in order to speed up these issues of land restitution, we need to get the commission to work closely with the office of the Valuer-General to make sure that they can deal with these matters. It is ... [Inaudible.] ... to improve the turnaround strategy. You know there are a number of things that they look at when they deal with the turnaround strategy, and we want to improve those issues. The Inter-Ministerial Committee on Agriculture and Land Reform is now working very closely with
these institutions to make sure that we can then complete this process faster and properly. Therefore, we are doing that, hon member. Thank you very much.

Mr W M THRING: Hon Speaker, through you to hon Deputy President, during the apartheid era family was forcibly removed off their farm in Weza between Harding and Kokstad in KwaZulu-Natal. The farm was leased out to a forest plantation farmer who paid rental to government over the years. In 1998, a land claim was made by the family with all the necessary documentations submitted. The man who was forced off the farm as a child with his parents was excited that finally justice would be done, and reparations made. Months turn into years and years to decades and no land was returned or reparations received, and the man died in 2010. That man was my spiritual mentor and senior pastor.

Hon Deputy President, noting that these inordinate delays create a second injustice, what action will you take and by when to bring government officials responsible for delays and or alleged fraud, as mentioned in the Motlanthe High-Panel on land, to assist the thousands of families and people groups to receive what is rightfully theirs? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, through you to hon Thring, the case you are citing obviously affects many other families out there. We are very sympathetic to your family and everybody out there because you are quite right, this process should have moved faster. However, as I said earlier, we have now identified where the challenges are and we are going to intervene. It’s not going to be easy because as I say, if you look at some of the reasons why we delay is sometimes out of government’s hands, but in the Inter-Ministerial Committee we are preoccupied with that to ensure that we can bring justice to people who were forcibly removed from their land, who have now put claims to be able to receive their land.

Therefore, what I will do because it is a very critical matter in the country, we will keep Parliament informed about where we are, how we are moving, what are the problems that we are facing. However, we are definitely aware of the problems that families are facing because you know, people get old, and they pass on before they can receive their land. So, I guess the commitment I am making is that we will try very hard to move fast so that we can bring justice to people. Thank you very much.
Ms T M MBABAMA: The Restitution of Land Rights Act 32 of 1994, has a duty to establish a commission on restitution of land rights, which is seen as such in law. Deputy President, I must say your inter-ministerial meeting is achieving nothing. You have failed the 5 403 black claimants who have been waiting for decades to get their land back. Had the commission been conducting its work as an independent entity, no one would have had to wait for decades to have their claims finalised.
Don’t you think that it is high time, Deputy President, that you apologise to the families whose members have died waiting in vain for restitution due to your government’s incompetence and gross negligence and how are you holding the Minister and her officials to account and the interventions that you have been given are not for restitution, there are for land redistribution. We are talking restitution here. Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon member, the IMC met last month, so I think give it a chance to do its work. I don’t think you can say that we are achieving nothing when we are starting. It is not like we have been working for 30 years. This IMC is starting, and I’m convinced that we will succeed and remember that the Minister and the Deputy are also new, so give them a chance. Therefore, I am working with them, and we have started, and this issue is top on our agenda. We are concerned
about land redistribution as much as we are concerned about land restitution and the IMC will meet quite often to fast track these matters, because we ourselves understand that this is very important in the country and many of our people were forcefully removed from their rightful land for many years need to get back their land. It is a priority for us, hon member, so we will keep you posted. Thank you very much.

Question 15:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, supported by the Minister of International Relations and Co-operation, I undertook a working visit to the Republic of South Sudan from the 29th to the 31st of August this year. The visit to South Sudan enabled me to familiarise myself with the South Sudan peace process and its challenges.

In this context, I held extensive and fruitful discussions with President Salva Kiir and met the following stakeholders, Dr Riek Machar, the first Vice President of the Republic of South Sudan and a leader of the Sudan People's Liberation Movement in opposition. I also met Vice President Taban Deng Gai, as well as Vice President Doctor James Zwane, Vice President Hussein Abdel Bagi and we were unable to meet Vice
President mama Rebecca Nyandeng because she was out of the country.

I also had an opportunity to meet African ambassadors accredited to South Sudan, the Intergovernmental Authority on Development, IGAD, ambassadors of the Troika who are made-up of the United States of America, United Kingdom and the Kingdom of Norway.

I also met Ministers of Information and Communication Technologies and Postal Services, Justice Constitutional Affairs of South Sudan, met the Reconstituted Joint Monitoring and Evaluation Commission, met with the ambassador of the European Union and also met with the head of the African Union, a mission in South Sudan, as well as the special representative of the Secretary-General, who is the head of the United Nations Mission in South Sudan, Mr Nicolas Hayzom.

Hon Speaker, during these discussions the key issue that Sudanese actors and others raised was the need to fully implement the transitional security arrangements contained in Chapter 2 of the revitalised agreement on the resolution of conflict in the Republic of South Sudan.
The South Sudanese have requested assistance from South Africa in this area and the Department of Defence and Police will be consulted regarding assistant in implementing this Chapter 2, including a holistic disarmament, demobilization, and reintegration process.

Hon Speaker, South Africa is committed to supporting South Sudan to conclude the implementation of the revitalised transitional phase in order to hold peaceful elections by the end of December 2024. Another outstanding issue is the promulgation of electoral and political party legislation to enable the reconstitution of the electoral institutions such as the National Elections Commission of South Sudan. Also, to prepare for the organization of national elections, as I said, by December next year. To do so, they will require capacity building and training of their officials.

In addition, we noted that substantial electoral funding will be required for South Sudan to be able to have successful national elections. South Sudan is also due to undertake permanent Constitution making under Chapter 6 of the revitalised agreement. This process attaches substantial legal work and is necessary but also time consuming.
They are also going to engage in a broader nationwide consultative process that will ensure that they engage with non-governmental organizations, NGOs and many people of South Sudan. South Sudan further requires assistance with transitional justice matters and we have asked the Minister of Justice of South Africa to assist in that regard.

They are also looking at having something similar to our reconciliation and healing process so we will also be able to assist them to have their kind of Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

In conclusion. Hon Speaker, I want to emphasize that South Africa is committed to supporting all regional and continental initiatives to silence the guns on the continent, particularly in support of Agenda 2063. We will continue to support IGAD, an African Union led initiatives aimed at ensuring peace and prosperity in Sudan and other parts of the Horn of Africa.
Thank you very much, hon Speaker.

Mr B S NKOSI: Hon Deputy President, thank you for your response on the efforts to restore peace and ensuring economic development and regional stability in South Sudan. May you and the government indicate what are the envisaged phases of the
finalisation of the peace process and the implications of that for South Sudan and the neighbouring countries?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Nkosi, the first thing that we are prioritizing is for all the parties there to adhere to the time frame that they have set for themselves in the revitalised agreement. At the moment, the revitalised agreement envisages a process that should end by February 2025. However, they then agreed that the elections should be next year, December. So, we are supporting them to continue working within that time frame.

One of the things that we will ensure that they can adhere to this is to finalise the issue of the unified forces to create one defence force. That process has also started. They have already accredited the first level of all generals and they are now dealing with the middle ones. The third one, of course, is the drafting of the permanent Constitution.
However, they have agreed that they may be able to go to elections before they complete their permanent Constitution and be able to leave that work to the new Parliament. But they are busy with it as well.
Lastly, they want to ensure that everybody's part of the process. There were some opposition parties that were doubtful and they're trying to bring them in. And maybe that's why members will understand they have five Vice Presidents. So, you can see that it's an attempt to bring everybody in.

It's a very big institution. The National Assembly there or the Parliament there has got about 650 Members of Parliament and about 48 Ministers. So, the idea is to bring all the warring parties in. But I think it's a good thing that they have now agreed that they need to go to elections. So, I think South Africa must provide the support so that this happens, and we can have a democratic state in South Sudan. Thank you very much, hon Speaker.

The SPEAKER: The second supplementary question has been withdrawn by the hon W J Boshoff. We will then proceed to deal with the third supplementary question which will be asked by the hon L A Schreiber.

Dr L A SCHREIBER: Hon Deputy President, deliberations are currently underway to withdraw the United Nations’s peacekeeping forces from neighbouring eastern Democratic Republic of Congo, where armed militias have terrorized the
civilian population there for decades. Roughly 1 000 soldiers currently form part of that mission.

Considering the deteriorating humanitarian situation due to the resurgence of the M23 rebellion and other illegally armed groups, SADC has this month pledged to deploy a replacement peacekeeping force in that area, a SADC deployment supported by South Africa will of course have a significant impact on existing resource constraints domestically.

Given the absence of essential resources necessary to safeguard our soldiers, such as the ongoing lack of availability of the Oryx transport units and the Rooivalk helicopters, what steps are the government taking to ensure that adequate resourcing is made available to our troops in the Great Lakes region?

The SPEAKER: It’s Friday hon Deputy President. You may proceed.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What did the Speaker say?


The SPEAKER: Nothing.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: [Laughter.] ... yes, it’s Friday. Hon Schreiber, you are quite right. We will not have all the resources as South Africa, but our approach is to work with other countries as you know that we are in full support of IGAD in South Sudan and we also have the C5 that is led by our President.

What we'll do is continue working with these other countries because if we are South Africa think we can do it on our own, I don't think we'll succeed. We need a lot of resources. I think the reason for the withdrawal - I mean if I listen to what President Tshisekedi said yesterday was that they've had enough of the United Nation’s peacekeeping force. They now want to do things for themselves. I think it's fair.

We shouldn't keep foreign peacekeeping forces for too long in other countries. I think we should help countries to stabilise and take over. So, I support. President Tshisekedi for saying, look. enough with the United Nations, we can do it ourselves. But of course, as you correctly say, supported by other African countries. South Africa will be part of that though I have not checked the state of our Rooivalk with the Minister of Defence, but I'm sure we will have resources that we can deploy there. And I think we should do it. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA: Mr Deputy President, I'm glad you made reference to Agenda 2063 and you're speaking about the democratization of processes within South Sudan, and particularly with the elections which you refer to. But of course, this is not an issue in isolation to South Sudan on the continent and South Africa continues to be party to many regional and continental bodies, including SADC looking into this matter of Agenda 2063 and elections in democracy. Key amongst these areas is the issue of Zimbabwe, Mr President.

How do you reconcile the in the outlook that you have of Agenda 2063 democracy and elections with our country and government endorsing the elections in Zimbabwe which the SADC has clearly stated the elections fell short of the Constitution of Zimbabwe and the Electoral Act and the SADC principles and guidelines for democratic elections and further says the elections were flawed and therefore the result not legitimate.

Does this not make South Africa seem to be speaking from both sides of its mouth and therefore not providing the necessary clarity and not credible in the outlook that we have, insofar as the issues you've outlined? Thank you, Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Before I allow the Deputy President to respond, I will take a point of order from the hon Radebe.

Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Speaker, with due respect, according to Rule 142, this is a new question altogether. I think it’s unfair to the Deputy President.

The SPEAKER: Hon Hlengwa, I have not given you the floor.

Mr M HLENGWA: May I you crave your indulgence Madam Speaker?

The SPEAKER: Hon Hlengwa, it is true that even though you are still raising a matter which relates to peace processes, however, you are now raising a matter related to election, which has nothing to do with your original question related to peace issues in South Sudan. Deputy President may want to answer that question, but I would have to discourage him from doing so.

Mr M HLENGWA: Madam Speaker, speak on a point of order?



USOMLOMO: Asikho isiphakamiso sonqwanqwado kaloku.
Mr M HLENGWA: It can’t – Madam Speaker ... [Laughter.] ...



USOMLOMO: ... hayi musa ukumosha kaloku, yima. Lungu elihloniphekileyo uHlengwa ndiza kukhupha, ndiza kukucima.

Okay, Deputy President, do you want to respond to the question? Are you ready for it?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I think what we should say is that we want Zimbabwe to be stable because when Zimbabwe is unstable it affects us. Zimbabweans come to South Africa because there is not stability. My sense is that having gone through the elections, they will be able to stabilise their own country and be able to focus on development. Let us accept that they have gone through that process, and they must stabilise. Let’s leave it there.

Question 16:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the matter of Macassar land claim which consist of three competing claimants, namely, the Zandvliet community, Kammies Darries Heritage land claim and the Muslim Judicial Council is currently before the Land
Claims Court. We are, therefore, hon Speaker, not in a position to intervene until the court has finalised the matter. I therefore urge the parties involved to find each other so that we can finalise the land claim.

However, as part of our delegated responsibility, as the member asked, of implementing rapid response interventions on service delivery, troubleshooting in hot spots and monitoring the implementation of the District Development Model, we have decided to visit a number of areas in the Western Cape. I did say earlier that as part of my visiting provinces I haven’t come to the Western Cape. So, we will be coming, and we will include a visit to Zandvliet and Porterville. We are still finalising other areas where we think we should be able to go and see the state of service delivery and address challenges that communities are facing.

So, hon member and esteemed members of the House, rest assured that we are taking active measures to prioritise the acceleration of land claims and it stands as a top priority on the agenda of the ANC, as I said earlier. However, we will have to wait for the court to conclude its work before we can proceed with this matter. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Speaker, to the Deputy President, thank you for the update. It puts me in a strong position to meet with my constituency and inform them of your response. They will be very excited to hear that you will be visiting their precinct which consist of four generations of Mr Kammies Darries who bought this land when he was a free black. So, thank you very much.

Further, there are quite a number of other matters that I want to know if the Inter-Ministerial Committee, IMC, would be opened to us submitting a comprehensive memorandum with the many claims, especially of free blacks whose land was expropriated with little or no compensations largely from the Malay and Muslim community? Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon Hendricks, for your understanding. Indeed, if you do have other matters that you want the IMC to consider you can bring them forward and we will be able to look at them. Thank you very much.

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA: Madam Speaker, to the hon Deputy President, in view of the fact that your response has our government reiterated its commitment toward the speedy settlement of all outstanding land claims by the commission on restitution of
land rights, is it possible for the Deputy President to share with South Africans and ourselves here in the hon House how much land has been restituted and or redistributed since 1994? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I may not have all the figures of the amount of land that has been restituted, however, those figures are available with the commission, and we can make them available to the hon member. Of course, as I said in the earlier question, the commission has approved more
87 000 claims and there are still 5000 that are remaining and the amount of monies spent already amounts to about
R79 billion because of, as I said, sometimes it is expensive to deal with this matter.

There are other claimants who don’t want the land but want money. So, instead of saying we can get this land back, they say, just pay us and then of course they find valuators who come with ridiculous prices that we have to deal with. We should be able to get you those figures of how much land has been restituted so far. Thank you very much.

Ms T M MBABAMA: Hon Speaker, the land claim of the 200 families who have been allocated restitution sites at
Zandvliet near Macassar in the Western Cape is not the only long outstanding claim still to be finalised; there are 5 402 others of which this is one of them. The responses given by your Deputy Minister, Skwatsha, in this House on Wednesday to questions regarding the Land Claims Commission paint a picture of an uncaring government. Deputy President ... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order, Order! Order, hon members!


Ms T M MBABAMA: ... have you held Deputy Minister Skwatsha to account? Have you bothered to find out how many claims are more than 20 years outstanding? If not, why not?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, to the hon member, I did say earlier that Deputy Minister Skwatsha is part of the Inter-Ministerial Committee, so, he is already held to account through that mechanism. I couldn’t hear hon member, just pardon me, you said ... [Interjections.]

Ms T M MBABAMA: I can repeat it ... [Interjections.]


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: ... just one part I didn’t hear properly. You were saying that the 5202 claims are from where?
The SPEAKER: Now you may want to repeat your question.


Ms T M MBABAMA: Thank you, I was saying that this claim is part of 5402 that are outstanding ... [Interjections.]


Akuthethwa nani musani ukuphapha. Yhuu!




The SPEAKER: Order! Order!


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I didn’t hear the member. I thought the member was saying that in addition to the 200 in Macassar there is another 5200. She is saying that the 200 is part of the 5000. It is fine, hon member, because I think I have already dealt with this matter that there are about 5000 or so claims that are still outstanding and Macassar or Zandvliet are included. So, as we push faster to deal with the 5000, we will include those areas. As I said to hon Hendricks, once the court has completed its work then we will be able to get the commissioner or even ask the Minister to appoint a new commissioner to then process those claims. Thank you very much
... [Interjections.]
Ms T M MBABAMA: You didn’t answer the question in totality.


The SPEAKER: The last supplementary ... [Interjections.] ... Hon Mbabama? Hon Mbabama ...


... ayifani nawe ke leyo.


Mr E MTHETHWA: Madam Speaker, to the Deputy President, in honour of your request that we should be easy on you since it is Heritage ...


... kuyadabukisa ukubona ukuthi ...



 ... the highest discipline and order you are being given is from this side.


Abakho babanga umsindo ngisho kukhuluma wena, Sekela Mongameli, okubonisa ukuthi abakuhloniphi kwawena, ikakhulukazi kulo layini ophambili woNgqongqoshe namaSekela
Ngqongqoshe, phambi kukaSekela Mongameli, babanga umsindo noma ukhuluma. [Ubuwelewele.] Kodwa siyazi, Sekela Mongameli, ukuthi ... [Ubuwelewele.] ...


The SPEAKER: You are running out of time for your question.


Mr E MTHETHWA: ... Deputy President, one of the main reasons for delays in the settlement of these land claims is the fact that the Commission on Restitution of Land Rights is not given a sufficient budget to deal with the volumes of claims. The downside of this is that land claimants have to wait and that most of these who lodge these claims and who were firsthand victims of dispossession are dying without their land being returned to them.

To date, it is not clear what criteria the commission uses to prioritise land claims for settlement. In your engagement with the Minister and the commission, have they indicated what criteria they use to prioritise which land would be settled in a particular year?

Angazi-ke ngoba ababuyi-ke ngonyaka ozayo ...

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, to hon Nyambose, I thought you will say that you are going easy on me because we used to be friends. You remember? Okay, Nyambose and myself worked very well together when I was Minister of Arts and Culture. I remember you from there, Nyambose, you were doing very well.

Hon Speaker, I did allude to the fact that one of the challenges in the delay of processing claims has to do with budgets. Of course, we will, through the IMC, examine that carefully because it may well be that the commissions run out of budget because of paying these hefty demands that they are facing. I think that if we can work in such a way that claimants don’t come with very hefty claims, we should be able to mobilise a sufficient budget to complete the work. That is something that we are looking at and we will allow the Ministry to carefully look at the criteria that is being used.

My approach of course is that no land claim should be better than the other. I think if we have a criteria, we should avoid a situation where we come with a kind of criteria that will prioritise others and leave others behind. I think all land claims are important and should be given the necessary attention by the commissioners and prioritised. Of course,
with the Ministry, we will look at the issue of the budget so that the commissioners don’t say they can’t do their work because they have run out of money. So, Nyambose, we will do that. Thank you.

Question 17:

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the government will continue to implement steps to capacitate producers with the requisite skills and mentorship programmes as part of a comprehensive farmer support. This support assists farmers to optimise both production and marketing operations. To reach this goal, the Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, the private sector and labour collaborated to develop what is called the Agriculture and Agro-processing Master Plan, and it was signed in May last year 2022.

The master plan is a social compact and the first strategic plan to have commodity specific transformation targets, jobs, exports, investments and growth rates. It focuses on commercial land reform in rural areas to increase food production and farmers infrastructure. Through the Agriculture and Agro-Processing Masterplan, government has successfully leveraged unlocked nearly R3,5 billion in funding through the blended finance scheme to support farmers and agribusiness.
Furthermore, the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development has launched the R1,2 billion Agro-Energy Fund to assist small, medium and large-scale farmers in diversifying their energy supply sources for energy intensive farming practices.

Hon Speaker, in partnership with the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, the Industrial Development Corporation has established the Agri-industrial Fund to support economically viable activities, particularly in agro-processing sectors, including food and non-food products. The aim is to develop a competitive industry that uses local and regional resources to supply domestic demand and increase international trade participation. The programme targets high value export or rented crops, poultry, livestock and expansionary acquisitions of these subsectors. Qualifying businesses, which should be 60% black owned, will access debt and grants to support their capital, equipment, infrastructure and working capital requirements. The Agricultural Industrial Fund is central to the recovery of the local economy by assisting producers and investees in developing, expanding, acquiring and integrating operations in prioritized agricultural value chains. In this regard, we are engaging key stakeholders, including the private sector role-players to
sponsor programmes to enhance skills development, capacity building and small-scale producers to ensure that rural businesses and small-scale farmers benefit from these initiatives.

Hon Speaker, the government is also reviewing relevant legislation governing land holding entities such as trusts, community property associations, etcetera. In this regard, the Communal Association Amendment Bill has been passed by both Houses of Parliament and has now been sent to the President for assent. Through these interventions and measures, the government will be able to introduce sustainable finance and farmer development models that will enable small and medium scale black-owned farms in rural areas to grow produce and market their quality products and thus contribute to South Africa’s food security. I thank you, hon Speaker.

Mr N CAPA: Hon Speaker, let me thank the hon Deputy President for this courage and hope that you give to the black farmers.


Kuyabonakala ukuba awuhambi udlala xa uthunyiwe.


Considering the significance and importance of these programmes you have just outlined to support the black farmers...

The SPEAKER: Just please hold on, please. I am really sorry.


Uxolo, tat’uCapha.


I am sorry, Deputy President. Hon Masipa, will you please stand. There are two things you are doing here. It is either you are conveying kisses or you are doing that to a puppy.
There is no puppy here and you cannot be conveying kisses here. Do not do that again, please. Take your seat. Hon members, order. We proceed.




... please continue.

Mr N CAPA: Thank you, hon Speaker. I was saying...

... uyabonakala ukuba uwuhambi udlala xa uthunyiwe.


Now, considering the importance and significance of the programmes you have just outlined to support black farmers, what monitoring and evaluation mechanisms are in place to guarantee that they are effectively implemented so that they benefit those that are intended for and also to ensure that these funding programmes will not be misused and corrupted? I thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the department has introduced proactive land acquisition strategy and that helps them to be able to support these programmes and also to monitor and evaluate these programmes in an ongoing way. We also know that the Land Bank has got blended finance schemes that support particularly joint ventures that are being conceptualised out there. So, there is a lot of support and monitoring mechanisms that have been put in place.

We also know that the portfolio committee itself, is playing a very active role in ensuring continued oversight on the implementation of this programme. So, I am confident that
monitoring and evaluation is there and oversight by the portfolio committee and the department, particularly I think the proactive land acquisition strategy is the cornerstone of ensuring the success of this programme. Thank you very much, hon member.

Ms S GWARUBE: Hon Speaker...


...Sekela Mongameli...


... in 2019 in the ANC manifesto, your party committed to what you called Sustainable Land Reform Programme, which was meant to accelerate land reform for black people who have been excluded from the economy and aid with food security. The land reform process has been riddled with policy uncertainty and corruption over the years. Deputy President, I think we can agree that the ANC-led government has failed black South Africans in unforgivable ways. Will you admit that, this failure to empower small and medium-sized farm owners now affects food security to the point where families across the country are going without food, mothers are resorting to
suicide than suffer hunger with their children, like we saw in Butterworth in the Eastern Cape?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I indicated earlier that the Inter-Ministerial Committee is now seized with these matters on hon Gwarube to ensure sustainable land reform. We have put in all mechanisms to ensure support, particularly of black farmers. I indicated earlier that 60% of black-owned farms by black farmers will receive this support that we are providing to ensure that they can have seeds, implements, equipment, etcetera. So, the support is there and we are going to make sure that all the farmers that require the support do receive it so that we can ensure that in South Africa there is food security, ensuring that farmers do receive the support that they need. We are doing that, hon Gwarube.

Ms M E SUKERS: Hon Deputy President, as I am speaking to you today, there is a serious security issue developing in this area claims here in Kommagas. I am speaking on behalf of the Nama people, the people of Namaqualand who are being robbed of their ancestral wealth and their right to land and business ownership as diggers. The people of Kommagas in Buffelsrivier are the rightful owners of Bontekoe, a rural farm that is mineral rich. This community seeks government intervention for
land ownership and mining rights to advance small medium enterprises in mining. They are unable to acquire mining rights and on this land are the indigenous Nama people.

Many women who seek legal mining rights and ownership. The land claim is against the land owned by De Beers and Alexkor in Kleinsee. It is 300 000 hectares of land. Will the Deputy President make a commitment as part of his visit to the Western Cape to not only visit Kleinsee and Kommagas, Bontekoe area, but to accelerate the land claims of the indigenous people of Kommagas, their right to have the land registered in their name their rights to mine minerals in the land of their ancestors as rightful owners and beneficiaries, as well?

The SPEAKER: I am sorry hon member, there is a point of order.


Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Speaker, on a point of order: Hon Speaker, I am rising on Rule 142 again. This is a totally new question. It would have been relevant on Question 16, not to the current question of financing. Thank you.

The SPEAKER: I thank you, hon member Radebe. Hon Deputy President, are you ready to answer the question? But bear in mind the comments made by hon Radebe.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I think hon member is right it would have fitted nicely in the other question.

The SPEAKER: Okay.


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We will look at it, we will look at it, not today, but we will look at it.

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Speaker, on a point of order.


The SPEAKER: Hon Hlengwa...


... yima.


Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Speaker...


The SPEAKER: Hon Hlengwa, I have your name here, you sent your name now. I called hon Luthuli twice earlier on.

Mr M HLENGWA: Yes, Madam Speaker...

The SPEAKER: I now allow you to raise your question.
Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you, Madam Speaker...



... hayi, namhlanje asizwani, angazi siqathwe ubani.



Hon Deputy President, small and medium-scale farmers in rural areas need both extensive and consistent farming funding as well as access to digital and technological innovations in order to increase productivity, which in turn fully allows them to contribute towards increased food production, a vibrant economic activity and job creation. Considering this element, I would like to know how these financial frameworks will aim to include a focus on digital innovations consistent with the Fourth Industrial Revolution as small and medium skilled black farmers currently do not have an advantage in this regard? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, we have decided to support all farmers in case there are those that are saying they are struggling to get the support. We will look into that through the department because I think it is important for us, particularly those farmers in deep rural areas that may be struggling to reach us. We are going to look into that so that
we do not leave them behind. I can assure you, hon Hlengwa, that those kinds of farmers in rural areas will also be given priority. Thank you very much.

Question 18:

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the National Dialogue on Coalition Governments was held here at the University of the Western Cape in the Western Cape on 4 and 5 August 2023. The discussions focused on developing a framework for coalition governments in all three spheres of government. Currently, we have sent the framework to all parties that participated in the dialogue and we are waiting for responses to finalise the report that we would like to present to Parliament for approval.

I would like to thank the political parties that participated. In this regard, IFP has already responded. We therefore call on all other parties to do the same so that we can finalise the report. The government is also aware of the negative impact of dysfunctional coalition governments on the mandate of municipalities to deliver essential services. To this end, work is underway on the framework and legislative amendment that will apply specifically to local government. So the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs,
Cogta, is busy with this work. While a broader process of developing a national framework is underway, Cogta will ensure that this work is given urgent attention. Particularly implementing policy and legislation reforms that will stabilise local government.

Hon Speaker, in accordance with section 154(1) of the Constitution the national government, in collaboration with the provincial government, will continue to strengthen the capabilities of municipalities in managing their own affairs- because we don’t want to take over, we want to help them manage their affairs and carry out their functions.

Therefore, we call on all members of this august House to continue exercising leadership to achieve the cohesion of municipalities. The nation’s success is far greater than the narrow interests of individuals and political parties. So, let’s work together. Thank you very much, hon Speaker.

Mnu G G MPUMZA: Enkosi mama uSomlomo.


Hon Deputy President, thanks for your response. I would like to get your views on the following matters. At the National Dialogue on Coalition Governments held at the University of Western Cape, several important progressive values and principles on coalition were highlighted. Firstly, that coalition should be founded on a common minimum programme embodied in the Citizen’s Charter is imperative that such a programme be made public and subjected to discussions at committee meetings. Secondly, coalition partners must commit unwaveringly to shared values, including stability, accountability, ethics and integrity. Lastly, transparency and accountability are crucial aspects of coalition governance.
Coalition governments should remain transparent and accountable to the people within their jurisdiction.

A genuine national dialogue amongst political parties is critical, but a fundamental element of our democracy is public involvement and participation in the formulation of interventions to strengthen coalitions and to develop a national consciousness and understanding of the implications of a coalition and the duty of assistance in that.

The SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Mpumza. Hon Luzipho, make sure you are muted, please. Thank you, Deputy President.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon Speaker. Hon Mpumza, at the dialogue on the 4th and 5th of August, we did present principles that we believe will assist in ensuring stability where there are coalitions. One of them was putting people first, batho pele. Because the work of local government is about providing services to the people. So, in whatever they do when they come up with this coalition, that must be the first thing that they consider.

The second one is that we believe that those governments, the coalition governments, like all other governments, including provinces and national, should be about combating poverty, growing the economy and creating jobs. So, we don’t want the coalition government for the sake of it or like in.

Uthatha lokhu mina ngizothatha lokhu.



We don’t want that. We want the principle that says what are we going to do for the people. Are we going to grow the economy, and create jobs? At the end of the day, local government must assist provinces and national governments to ensure prosperity, that’s what we want to see happening. Our
people must live in societies that are transformed where economies grow their jobs and finally, we have prosperous societies.

So, local government must be anchored by those kinds of principles, including good governance. We hear a lot about corruption in local government or resources not being used properly. So the issue of good governance is critical to ensure that we can provide services.

So, I would say let us strengthen those principles. Wherever we are thinking of coalitions, they must be anchored around those principles. If parties at all those levels work according to these principles, we shouldn’t see instability because they will be guided by this principle. But thank you very much for the question.

Gen B HOLOMISA: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon Deputy President as you are aware, successful coalitions require interparty goodwill, co-operative and constructive relationships, as well as the establishment of a body to monitor their functioning and to assist the government in dispute resolution. However, given that your government has already been in the process of
drafting the Bill which included imposing the ridiculous and unconstitutional one percent threshold.

Going forward, what proportional system will be used to foster inclusivity and have you considered any effective approach to ensure active participation of all political parties with no representation in Parliament as well as independent candidates?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon Speaker. Hon Holomisa, you will recall that at the dialogue itself, where you also made contributions, this issue was debated, the question of threshold. We explained at the time that that was not to throttle smaller parties, but really to set up a benchmark that is acceptable in terms of how we do work going forward. I know that General Holomisa, you were among those who were very sceptical of this threshold. I think at some point General said “This is a mechanisation of the ANC and the DA to try and try and throttle us.” No, no, it’s not the case.

When parties go and contest elections, they do so to win and I’m sure when you campaign you want to win in such a way that you have a presence that can be felt when you come to bodies like this. So, it shouldn’t be difficult for a party to get
more than one percent if you campaign hard. So, General Holomisa, we are not using the threshold to exclude you, but you also said that we need a body to implement it.

Cogta has been looking at these principles and how we can work together. So, I am willing to receive your proposal, General Holomisa, on how you think we can handle this part. Because if we don’t have the threshold we might ... [Interjections.] ...

Gen B HOLOMISA: But you didn’t consult us. You didn’t consult anybody.

The SPEAKER: Hon General Holomisa, please don’t do that.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: ... hon Speaker, I was saying, that thresholds are a method that is acceptable even in the Constitution. You will recall that when we go and campaign for whoever should serve in Parliament there is a threshold. You don’t invite people with zero percent to Parliament.
Thresholds are used to determine the acceptable way of ensuring who participates. But General Holomisa, I am awaiting your response in writing. I thank you.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: I think you guys must just go back to the drawing board.

The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, hon Deputy President.



Awuzi kuphinda Kwankwa wenze loo nto.


Mr N L S KWANKWA: We are exposing you.


The SPEAKER: No, no, no ...


... ndiza kukukhupha


Hon Members, don’t do that. The third supplementary question will be asked by the hon Manyi.

Mr M MANYI: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Deputy President in 1994 the À team ANC promised 30% of agricultural land to be transferred to black people in five years. It is common cause that the ANC has dismally failed and has postponed this noble goal to 2030. Noting that Minister Thembi Nkadimeng is on
record on a possible ANC-DA coalition, the question is, should the issue of the land not be a deal breaker in your coalition arrangements?

The SPEAKER: Hon members, don’t drown the speakers, please.


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Manyi, we don’t have a coalition with the DA. Do you have another question?

Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: But this Deputy President is not taking the question seriously.

The SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Deputy President. Hon Ntlangwini, should I switch off your microphone? Bye. Switch off hon Ntlangwini ...


... uhambile.


Thank you very much. Hon members, the last supplementary question will be asked by the hon A M Shaik Emam.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, hon Speaker. First of all, allow me to congratulate you, the ANC and the government, and thank you for letting Palestinians travel to South Africa visa-free. I would like to thank you very much for that. Your contribution will not go unnoticed in the next election.

Deputy President, I think I have raised the issue of coalition governments before, and the one factor that contributes to coalition governments failing, and more importantly, as you know, some political parties are in the business of assassinations. They have lost a lot of councillors, the NFP has lost, the ACDP has lost, I think, and the EFF has lost councillors.

The problem is the issue of money, the access of politicians and political parties to funds and the appointment of people associated with them so that they can benefit and sustain themselves. How or what actions will you take to ensure that coalitions are successful by addressing the root cause, which is the evil of access to money by political parties that govern wherever they govern?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon Emam political parties must operate and have sufficient resources
to do so. Hon Emam is quite right that in some instances people fight for positions because they want to have access to resources which is something that we need to deal with as a society and to encourage people who want to be councillors or politicians to do that because they want to serve, not because they are going to get resources to themselves or their parties. Yes, parties need resources to operate, but I don’t think it is something that we should kill one another for.

I think if we are elected by the people, we should go and serve. People pay taxes and levies, and these funds are to ensure that local governments enable the councillors and the political parties that govern to work and provide services to the people. So we have to work hard to eliminate the evil of money among us and focus on serving people.

I think that’s part of moral renewal. We talk a lot about moral renewal. We need to strengthen it by making sure that services to people are services to people, not services for rewards, and that is what we need to do. But thank you very much, Mr Emam, for your questions. We will make every effort to work with everyone. Part of our responsibility in the Office of the Deputy President is to continue to strengthen social cohesion and moral renewal in society.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, that concludes questions to the Deputy President I thank the hon Deputy President and the session is adjourned.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I wish all members a happy Heritage Month. Thank you.

The House adjourned at 11:50.




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