Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 08 Jun 2023


No summary available.


Watch: Plenary

The House met at 10:00.

The House Chairperson Mr M L D Ntombela took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

Mr G K Y CACHALIA: Hon Chair, yesterday I left the House in an unseemly haste without acknowledging respectfully the Chair. I would like to apologise for that.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Can you come again hon Cachalia?

Mr G K Y CACHALIA: Yesterday, I left the House in an unseemly haste without acknowledging respectfully the House Chair. I would like to apologise for that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Apology accepted hon Cachalia.

The House Chairperson Mr M L D Ntombela announced that the vacancies which occurred in the National Assembly owing to the resignations of Mr D F Mthenjane, Mr H A Shembeni, Mrs S M Mokgotho and Mrs C C S Motsepe had been filled with the nominations of Ms N Mhlongo, Mr M Shikwambana, Mr E Mthethwa and Mr M Manyi respectively, with effect from 1 June 2023.

The members had made and subscribed the oath in the Speaker’s office.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair and hon members, I hereby move that the House suspends Rule 290(2)(a), which provides, inter alia, that the debate on the Second Reading of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days before they have lapsed since the committee’s report was tabled for the ... [Laughter.] ... three working days have lapsed since the committee’s report was tabled for the purpose of conducting the Second Reading today on the Appropriation Bill. I so move hon House Chair. Thank you.
Motion put.


Motion agreed to.


There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I move that the House adopts this report. Thank you.

Motion agreed to.


Report accordingly adopted.



SEPHADI SE KA SEHLOHOONG SA MOKGA WA BONGATA: Ha ke lebohe Modulasetulo, ke sisinya hore Ntlo ena e amohele tlaleho ena. Ke a leboha.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).


Report accordingly adopted.



(First Reading debate)


Mr N S BUTHELEZI: Hon Chairperson, Hon Chief Whip and Deputy Chief Whip, Hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers ...

... zakhamuzi zaseNingizimu Afrika ...



 ... The ANC supports the 2023 Appropriation Bill. We support the Bill because it protects lives and livelihoods. With all the internal and external shocks, the ANC government continues to prioritise the economically marginalised by providing 51% Non-interest Consolidated Expenditure, a whopping
R3,6 trillion over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework as a minimum wage. We agree with Tata Mandela when he says, “A nation should not be judged by how it treats its highest citizens, but its lowest ones.” The social wage is meant to live the dream of Madiba, protect the most vulnerable of our society.

Let me pause here and pay tribute to the gallant students who 47 years ago who decided that enough was enough. They could allow the apartheid monster to mess with their future. They said, “We will take them head-on and stop the mess visited on us and our country.”

The mess of the Drommedaries the Goede Hoop and the De Reiger those three ships that landed in 1652 had to stop. That's the mess that even today we're still trying to clean the disaster and pandemonium of Bantu Education, Separate Amenities Act, Group Areas Act etc. had to be stopped. Although some would like us to forget, the reality of homelessness, poverty and miseducation is still with us.

Landlessness is the reality lived by the majority of indigenous people of this country. Palpable poverty of Khayelitsha, Hanover Park, Alexandra, KwaZakhele is there for everyone to see. As the ANC, this is what we resolve to solve, a mess of 350 years. When we say South Africa belongs to all who live in it, and people shall share the country's wealth, we also meant all South Africans must benefit from the wealth of this country.

Abantu abamnyama abangavalelwa ngaphandle. Ningabi amagovu.


There's enough to share in this country. As we debate this budget, we should always remember that we are reaping the dividends of the gallant fighters, the young martyrs who faced the apartheid regime. We are talking about the unarmed children killed by the white supremacist apartheid who were hell-bent to defend the indefensible racial segregation and oppression.

This Bill proposes a total appropriation of R1,1 trillion this year and R3,3 trillion over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. This represent non-interest spending increase of R128,4 billion over the next three years compared to the 2022. budget. This happens despite the exogenous shocks like the Ukrainian-Russian War. The growth of the economy is very
important if you were to solve the problems of poverty, inequality, unemployment and economic exclusion. Therefore, the budget as a whole is growth-enhancing.

The President His Excellency, Ramaphosa, has identified infrastructure as an important catalyst to grow our economy. Robert Pieters, president and CEO of Innocent Transportation, commenting about the importance of infrastructure argues that infrastructure is the backbone of a healthy economy. The economy needs reliable infrastructure to connect supply chains and efficiently move goods and services across borders, infrastructure connects households to higher quality opportunities for employment, health care, and education.

It is this realisation that makes the ANC government allocate R903 billion run for infrastructure in the 2023 MTEF period. This will build roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, police stations, dams etc. Infrastructure build programmes provide opportunities to SMMEs, job opportunities to young people, increased work opportunities in the most rural areas of our country. This also helped to crowd in private sector investments.
Amongst this infrastructure so that people can go and touch it, there's the Tzaneen Dam wall in Limpopo valued at
R555 million and due for completion in December 2024. The Clanwilliam Dam to improve water supply for agriculture and farmers in the West Coast here in the Western Cape, just to remind others that the Western Cape is still part of South Africa. That's why we allocate money to the Western Cape. This will cost R4 billion and massive job opportunities here in the Western Cape. We welcome the intervention in rural areas, mainly the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, North West and Limpopo, R303,8 billion will be spent and 96 bridges will be built. The sight of our children crossing flooded rivers should be a thing of the past once this programme is finished. There are many other infrastructure projects in education, police, transport, and water that are underway. The majority of these projects are outside the major cities and towns. They are mainly in rural areas. This helps in dealing with economic divide created by apartheid, resulting in the two economies that President Mbeki spoke about.

When President Ramaphosa delivered the Alexandra Renewal Project, ARP, in this House in 2020, he said, “Our infrastructure build programme will focus on social infrastructure such as schools, water, sanitation, and housing
for the benefit of our people.”. He continued to say, “We will focus on the critical network infrastructure such as ports, roads, and rail that are key to our economy's competitiveness.” Who can then argue that we have not lived up to this commitment. You can take a short left and see for yourself that this is happening. My comrades after illustrating that the ANC is on the ground responding to the socioeconomic challenges facing our people through the main infrastructure projects. We have been upfront that the government alone cannot deal with all these problems without the participation of other social partners. As the President argued:

To turn our economy around and create the millions of jobs needed cannot be achieved by the government alone. With this in mind, would work with our social partners to finalise a comprehensive social compact to grow the economy, create jobs, and combat hunger.

The social partners have come to the party. From the Fifth Investment Conference, we reached R1,51 trillion in pledges, surpassing our target by 26%. From these conferences, we're having projects by private sector already providing jobs to our people. For instance, 10 factories in the new Tshwane
Special Economic Zone are operational and already employing 2 500 workers.


An investment of R1,7 billion by the SA Poultry Association are some of the examples. These and many other projects are responding to the ARP clarion call to localise, localise and localise. This has gone hand-in-hand with the promotion of the black industrialists, as we heard from the Deputy Minister Gina the Lighthouse Footwear and Leather Factory in Stanger.
More Lighthouses to produce mores shoes are needed.

The importation of 75% of shoes is undesirable and impacts negatively on the economy and job creation. The Department of Trade, Industry and Competition group provided about R30 billion worth of incentives, industrial funding to encourage localisation. We are also seeing positive correlation between intensified localisation and exports. No wonder that for the first time in South Africa, South Africa crossed the R2 trillion export mark.

These are positive stories for the economy because it means more jobs are created locally than sustaining other people's economies. The Appropriation Bill we are dealing with today is aimed at accelerating all these initiatives. Therefore, voting against this Bill means that you are saying no to the Lighthouses in Stanger.

Tshelani abantu ukuthi nithi nina isibhedlela sase-Polokwane masingakhiwa. Nithi idamu laseMzimvubu namatorho azovela khona anihambisani nakho. Nithi uHulumeni akagoqe izandla angangeneleli.


That you are voting against the rural bridges to help the children who against all odds cross the rivers and rivulets in search of education. The Presidential Employment Stimulus, Pesi, is one of the successful interventions providing young people with the necessary skills and work experience. Over a million people have benefited from this intervention. Youth Capital, an organisation of young people says:

The success of the Pesi is well-documented and more specifically the critical role, the Basic Education Employment Initiative in providing quality work experience, extra resources to schools and increased spending in local economies.



Happy Youth Month.


Nkosi busisa intsha yaseNingizimu Afrika neAfrika jikelele.


We support the Bill.




Dr D T GEORGE: House Chairperson, when the Minister delivered his budget in February, the outlook for our economy was bleak, with growth expected to slow over the medium term to average 1.4% over the next three years. First quarter growth this year is 0.4%. Our economy is underperforming an already low projection. Like every other economy, ours was heavily impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic and the Russian war on Ukraine that disrupted supply chains and fuel inflation.
Unlike other economies, ours is not resilient, and sentiment continues to deteriorate, a result of government not responding. If our economy does not grow, the projected revenue will not be collected. The amounts available for expenditure will be overstated and will need to be reduced when the budget is adjusted in October. That means less money for service delivery. Government’s poor policy choices has blocked out growth, and this cannot be fixed without a change in government. The ANC is stuck on its pursuit of a so-called developmental state when it is clear that an incompetent, corrupt and dysfunctional government will never generate growth, reduce unemployment or lift the millions of South Africans trapped in poverty by a government positioned in the wrong place at the centre of our economy.

To generate growth, government must focus on delivering the crucial elements that an economic ecosystem needs, infrastructure, education, healthcare, safety, a viable social security net and sensible foreign policy. Government has failed on every requirement. Our roads, railways and ports are neglected. Our children cannot read for meaning. Billions already spent on healthcare has delivered broken hospitals, SAPS is starved of money as crime steadily increases, our defence forces decimated, and vulnerable South Africans cannot rely on the social support they need.

A series of policy blunders has brought our economy to its knees. Cadres deployed into jobs they are unable to do cost an additional R30 billion each year for consultants to do what they can’t. A failed Black Economic Empowerment Model that made politically connected cronies extremely rich, now prohibits employment of particular race groups. State-owned enterprises received bailouts of R233 billion over the past five years and generated no growth and no jobs. R254 billion of Eskom’s debt will balloon the liabilities on the national balance sheet and Eskom will still be bankrupt. There is only so much a system can tolerate before it breaks down completely. The water crisis results directly from the electricity crisis and race quotas for water will not fix this problem.

Our grey listing in February was a direct result of government asleep at the wheel. The fall of the Berlin Wall accelerated the collapse of the previous one-party dominant government in South Africa, as the fault lines between the superpowers shifted in Europe. That is happening again with the ANC government firmly on the wrong side of history. No amount of
explaining about being nonaligned will take away the fact that the ANC is behaving pro-Russia. Market sentiment is negative, and the Reserve Bank Governor told our committee that the market is already starting to behave, as if secondary sanctions are going to be imposed.

Capital outflows depreciate the rand and feed inflation. South African shares and bonds are being offloaded and government is now borrowing at higher interest rates. We all agree that we must stop South Africa from being curved out of African Growth and Opportunity Act, AGOA, in 2025. If government does not behave in a nonaligned way, AGOA can only be saved if government is changed next year. The message has landed. The ANC is not South Africa. There is another option, that is the DA.

Government has done nothing to tackle the inflation wiping food off the tables or battling households. In this vacuum, only a very blunt monetary policy instrument is available. Rising interest rates are not effective when government policy is driving inflation. Government can scrap the fuel levy to immediately reduce the price of fuel, the price of transportation, and the price of food. Government can increase the zero VAT rates at food basket to include boning chicken, beef, beans, wheat flour, margarine, peanut butter, baby food, tea, coffee and soup powder to help battling households.
Government has not responded because it is broken.


The President knows that the private sector can save our economy with their skills and financial resources, and they can generate the jobs that government can’t. But can the President change his government’s mindset? That is the crucial question. South Africa is a rich country, and our economy is on its knees because our government is failing. We have one moon shot at fixing this next year. We are not going to miss. Thank you.

Mr E N NTLANGWINI: House Chair, greetings to the president and the commander in chief of the EFF, officials, members of the central command team and ground forces. Allow us once more to remind fighters here in South Africa, Africa and the diaspora, and all progressive business leaders that we are still in a campaign to fundraise as we head towards the festival of the poor at FNB Stadium on the 29 July 2023, to celebrate 10 years of unbroken struggle.

The Bill before the National Assembly today, the Appropriation Bill, is a Bill that is introduced and passed by both Houses
of Parliament every year because it is a legal instrument that we, as elected Members of Parliament, make allocations of money to be spent by national departments. Those legal instrument is not a National Treasury legislation, but it is our legislation. The Minister of Finance, together with the National Treasury, are only entrusted to make proposals. We must then take responsibility to ensure that the allocations we make to national departments, taking into account their past performance, taking into account available revenue collected from taxes, challenges facing municipalities and most importantly, the needs and cries of our people when making these allocations.

There is a misconception about the roles, because we heard a lot of members during Budget Votes debating, asking National Treasury for this and that money, thinking this important context to the Appropriation Bill. But let me now turn to the fundamentals of the Bill. As the Chairperson of the Standing Committee of the Appropriations have said, the allocation of the Bill allocates R1,1 trillion to national departments. We have rejected the Bill in the totality because it continues to be based on a principle of budget cut, austerity measures and the obsession with reducing budget deficit when they are no practical and believable measures to use fiscal policy to support economic growth and deliver services to our people at a time when the country is facing a crisis of load shedding.

We rejected the Appropriation Bill because there is no allocation of additional funding for generation of additional power because the plan is to collapse Eskom. The deputy president of the EFF made cogent proposals of the conditional grant to give municipalities with capacity and energy resources plan to build additional on and off grid solutions.

We rejected the Appropriation Bill because the people of Madibeng ward 27, in Nkomazi, in ... [Inaudible.] ... do not have clean water to drink. We rejected the Appropriation Bill because despite the killing of our people in Hammanskraal by the government failing to give them clean drinkable water, the allocation to the Department of Water does not have an immediate intervention, but it led to listen to how people singing here for supper that the budget is planned.

We wouldn’t be doing justice to our people and the people of South Africa if we conclude this debate without dealing with the Financial and Fiscal Commission and the Parliamentary Budget Office. It is possible that this is our last meaningful budget of the sixth Parliament as we head to national
elections next year, the Financial and Fiscal Commission and the Parliamentary Budget Office was established to assist Parliament with making these Bills, such as the Appropriation Bill, talk to the needs of our people. But these institutions behave like subcommittees of working groups inside the National Treasury and here in Parliament. They have not assisted us in any meaningful way, changing the nature character of the fiscal policy to talk to the needs of our people. Instead, the government is now contributing to the declining economy because of budget cuts. This must stop. 2024 is our new 1994. We must correct this mess.

As is June 16, we call on all young people to go and register in the numbers so that we take the ANC out of power come 2024. Let’s gather at FNB Stadium on the 29 July, as we will be unleashing our campaign for elections. Let’s all gather fighters and make sure that we take the ANC out of power. We take these corrupt individuals out of power and give our people services. Aluta continua!


Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Siyabonga kakhulu, Sihlalo weNdlu ehloniphekile, mhla uNgqongqoshe uthula iSabelomali lana, sakwitiza, nangomuhla uShenge ethula futhi ngokwabiwa kwezimali sakwitiza, namuhla sifuna ukukhuluma ngqo nabantu bakithi. Siyazi ukuthi lesi sabelomali sisethula ngaphansi kwezimo ezinjani zomnotho wezwe futhi siyaqaphelisisa ukuthi lolu kufanele ngabe usuku abantu bakithi bathokoza ngalo. Bazi ukuthi kulo nyaka esikuwo sokwabelana ngezimali amaphupho abo azofezeka. Lesi yisikhathi sokuthi laba abangenayo imizi bahlale ethembeni ukuthi ithuba labo lokuthola izindlu kuHulumeni wabo lizofezwa nokuyinto abangeke bayibone le esibaqinisekisayo ngayo namhlanje. Siyazi ukuthi lesi sabelomali kufanele ngabe sikhuluma ngokuthi amathuba emisebenzi azovela ukuze abantu bakithi abangasebenzi bathole amathuba okusebenza, mabahlale bazi ukuthi ngeke kwenzeke lokhu ngaphansi kweqembu elibusayo. Siyazi ukuthi bonke abagulayo ngezifo ezehlukene nabangatholi usizo emitholampilo nasezibhedlela okufanele ngabe lesi sabelomali sikhuluma nabo ngqo bakulungele futhi ukuthi basazoqhubeka nokubhubha ngenxa yokuthi lo Hulumeni akabakhathalele. Ngisho intsha yakithi efunda ezikhungweni zemfundo ephakeme kufanele yazi isazoqhubeka ilokho iphuma ezikoleni ntambama, uma kufanele ukuba iyofunda iyosebenza ezindaweni zokudlela ngoba u-NSFAS awubasizi. Abantu bakithi kufanele bazi ukuthi intsha yakithi efunda ezikoleni izoqhubeka ukuthi iphendulwe amathuluzi ocansi o-sugar daddy ngoba iswele izimali zokuthenga ama- sanitary towels ngenxa yoHulumeni wethu lo ohlulekayo.
Siyazi futhi ukuthi kulo nyaka esiya kuwo siya okhethweni. Sesifundisiwe yiqembu elibusayo ukuthi yonke iminyango kaHulumeni izoshintsha izinhlelo zayo ukuze kukhandwe izinhlelo ezizobe zikhuluma ngokhetho lapho siyobona izinsiza zombuso zisetshenziswa yiqembu elibusayo ukuze liqoqe amavoti abantu nokuyinto le engumkhuba wabo zinsuka zaphuma. Sithi abantu bakithi abenze intando eyodwa efanele nokufanele ukuba baqinisekise ukuthi uma sibuya iqembu leli elibusayo lasilwela siyavuma futhi lazabalaza siyavuma kodwa namhlanje seliphelelwe usawoti. Leli qembu selikubonisile ukuthi liyisitha sabantu. Yebo kufanele abantu bengabi nalo ithemba. Isikhathi soshintsho lesi, sokuthi abantu bathathe isinqumo sabo esizobasiza sibanikeze ikusasa abalifunayo bona nezingane zabo. Ngakhoke sithi kubalulekile ukuthi singalibali emuva futhi singakhohliswa ngamazwi enkulumo-mpilo njalo uma kumele babhekane nezinkinga zanamuhla bayovusa iminyaka yo-60 something bekhomba ubandlululo nasemaphutheni abo ngqo angahlangene nobandlululo. Kodwa siyazi ukuthi noma kukhona izimo zipitika zinje ngoba kukhona indaba ka-Eskom nje sengathi uhlengiwe ngokwezimali nje yingoba siqondisisa ukuthi uma singakwenzi lokho izwe lethu lizocwila.

Ngakhoke uma kunjalo sithi njengeNkatha siwaseka umbiko lo othulwe ngusihlalo kodwa abantu bakithi abazisize bona,
bazikhulule bona emakhamandeleni alaba asebefana ncamashi nomgubane omahhedle, Shenge, abangsiphoxi. Abamukele ukuthi bahlulekile. Bamukele, Mvuyane, ukuthi babenzele phansi abantu bakithi.


The ANC has failed us. Even some of you shouldn’t be proud, even to argue here, because you know it for a fact how much you have led people down. True leaders admits their mistakes, they don’t come here and just lament for no reason.


Sihlalo, siyabona. Abaphuma laba.

Mr W W WESSELS: Hon Chairperson, the hon chairperson of the Appropriation committee, hon Buthelezi, said just now, South Africa has enough for everybody in the country to share. The problem, Chairperson, is that the ANC government is making a concerted effort of it to make it less and less of everything there was to be shared by South Africans, because Chairperson, the country is in trouble, everybody is in trouble, this boat is sinking, and the ANC government is not really realising it. If we look at household incomes at the desperate situation
that most South Africans are in, we are not solving the poverty and inequality problem.

Chairperson, the hon Buthelezi also refers to a fact and admits infrastructure is the catalyst for growth, it is the backbone of a happy economy, he said. It is. The problem is that South Africa currently has a R4,8 trillion infrastructure investment gap. We have corruption in all forms when it comes to infrastructure projects, and the problem is that which the hon Buthelezi talks about, that there is to share in this country, is stolen by ANC cadres where government is allowing government departments to be exploited. Let me give you one example.

In the recent past, the Department of Communication and Digital Technologies paid 80 000%, listen hon Papo, 80 000% more than you would pay for the same product in the open market. That is what your government is allowing. You are not changing that because it happened now. There is no new dawn, it happens all the time. You are not eradicating corruption, and that’s the problem. You can talk here about a budget that’s there to promote economic growth, but the money is being stolen.
Let me ask you this, how many dams has been built since 1994 in South Africa by the government, how many dams? One, one, one, only one. Now, that’s the problem. You talk about infrastructure, you talk about water infrastructure, let me say this, Chairperson, we are in a crisis with regards to water, and especially water corruption in the water projects. That has a social impact and people are suffering because they don’t have water. Go to towns in the Free State, go to towns where there is not a drop water in towns.

Then there is no infrastructure investment because the money that is there, is stolen by tenderpreneurs or cadres, because the only thing that the ANC government prioritises is talking about the past and racial referring for your election campaign because you can’t promise the people of South Africa anything, because you haven’t delivered anything. So, the only thing you can do for your 2024 election campaign is once again talk about apartheid and talk about the past.

Your minds are behind bars because you are not actually talking about what is necessary to address inadequacies faced by South Africans. When we talk about Eskom, you ruined Eskom, you managed the monopoly and made it bankrupt, and that is your legacy. The people of South Africa are suffering because
of the ANC government. I thank you. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, February’s budget was well received by many financial commentators and economists with the Financial Mail saying it was a crowd pleaser that holds the line on fiscal consolidation, while gifting Eskom
R254 billion, avoiding tax hikes and dodging a number of bullets. The budget is, however, based on real economic growth forecasts, which have changed significantly since February, due to increased load shedding and reduced commodity exports.

The National Treasury at that time, forecasted economic growth of 0,9% this year, whilst the Reserve Bank forecast 0,3%. The higher economic growth, as we all know, will require a vastly improved electricity supply and freight rail, and even that now is under serious threat. The ACDP believes that it is crucial to maintain a prudent fiscal stance and achieve fiscal financial stability, and this will overtime, allow the shifting of resources from servicing debt to meeting the national objectives, developmental objectives and economic growth.
The question to the hon Minister is, whether the path towards debt stabilisation is still on track, given the realisation of the fiscal risks pointed out in the budget review, and is it still expected that a primary surplus will be announced which was announced in the budget will be achieved? We asked this question as the ACDP against the significant risks which have now realized these risks are pointed out in the budget review and include worsening global financial conditions, increased volatility and capital flows and a further exchange rate depreciation.

Now, we've seen a significant exchange rate depreciation, which clearly impacts on the budgets forecasts. Added to this, of course, is the public sector wage agreement that is above that which has been budgeted for, and again, that puts pressure on the budget. Hon Minister, the ACDP has long called for additional funds for law enforcement agencies, particularly, the Special investigating Unit, SIU, the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, including the Asset Forfeiture Unit.

Besides putting criminals behind bars, stolen funds run into billions of rands can be easily recovered, when we make use of these special tribunal. An example is the NPA’s Investigating
Director Settlement Agreement with ABB, which is to pay R2,5 billion in punitive reparations to Eskom, arising from corruption at Eskom, in terms of the prevention of organised crime. This is in addition to R1,6 billion that ABB paid to Eskom in 2020.

Hon Minister, as the R2,5 billion is proceeds of crime at Eskom, shouldn’t a large portion of that go back to fight crime and corruption at the entity, and will you follow up on this issue with other Cabinet Ministers, given that you and other Ministers decide how the funds in the criminal asset recovery account are to be allocated? This is a significant issue which needs to be looked into. I thank you.


Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Kodwa sazabalaza nathi anizange nizabalaze nodwa, la masela. Naningakwazi nokungena eMzantsi Afrika sanifaka phaya eTranskei.

We warned you about your use of contingent liabilities a long time ago and you failed to listen. All you did was to continue to do like guarantees such as state-owned enterprises without addressing the underlying governance challenges faced by the
entities. That is why now we are siting with contingent liabilities that are slightly over a trillion rand because of you. It is only going to reduce obviously because ...


... ngoku ninika imali ...



... to Eskom which is R254 billion. Even at Eskom you are doing the same thing. You are calling it not an appropriations, whatever you are calling it, a transfer to the balance sheet, but the bottom-line is that the taxpayers are dolling money to Eskom. So, you are just playing a game of semantics.

However, the challenge Minister in particular is that we give out money to Eskom, but we lock Eskom in the past. Which we find this to be problematic because even in the sale of noncore assets in the Eskom Debt Bill, you make it clear that money cannot be used for capital expenditure related to the acquisition sale. For instance for renewable energy or exploring other renewable sources. Meaning ...

... makahlale emalahleni u-Eskom ukuze iitshomi zenu zihlale



... on renewable energy ...


... ukuze ibezizo ezinoqhagamshelwano ngombane no-Eskom. Kodwa ingxaki bhuti Mlenzana ndifuna ukuyiphinda lento, lo Eskom nimenzayo nithi makajongane nolwabiwo lombane ugqithisa nje izitya zokutya angakuphekanga. Ukutya Mphathiswa kuphekwa kwenye indawo, yena uphatha izitya ahambe ephaka esithi yityani. Uzibuze ukuba wakhe wayiva phi into enjalo.


But also if you do not link energy independence the problem is once you do not have energy independence ...


... uza kubethwa ngaba ...



... who control energy in future and to manipulate internal events in the country.
Hon Minister, it cannot be that this SA Reserve Bank, you are a former trade unionist, the economy is on its knees, but you are still implementing inflation targeting which was first implemented in 1990 by New Zealand. It does not matter what happens. The chairperson on an example earlier spoke about exogenous which is nice economic jargon for external factors that have to do with Russia Ukraine war and other global factors which are driving inflation in the country.

The economy is on its knees and what do we do? Like parrots, increase interests’ rates or lower the interest rates. We do not care about the cost to the economy. The fact that we are destroying the asset based ... [Interjections.]

Then we chest that in future and we say are we able to contain the inflation. At what cost to the economy? The retrenchments, loss of assets, the repossessed houses and so on. It is absolute nonsense. It is intellectual laziness on the part of economists including the central bank to think that we can only use one instrument and the other levels of monetary policies that we can rely on.

Ayikho le nto, silawula izinto zakudala. La masela.

We do not support this Appropriations Bill.


Mr B N HERRON: Hon House Chairperson, we will support this Appropriations Bill. However, we raise serious flags and alarms about the priorities expressed in the budget. The enormous crises facing our nation is the continued economic environment that perpetuate poverty and unemployment.
Unfortunately the appropriations failed to tackle the right to social security appropriately.

The statistics being used in relation to poverty are outdated and we are currently living in a postlockdown South Africa.
Where thousands of jobs have been lost. Life for those who live below the poverty line has worsened. Our country urgently needs new data as well as the new approach.

Good continues to call for transforming for Social Relief of Distress Grant into a basic income grant and to increase it to at least meet that low above the poverty line of about R1000, 00 per person per month as it has been committed by the National Development Plan, NDP. A basic income grant will provide some dignity to our citizens with a relatively small income to meet their most basic needs.
Our senior citizens who spent a lifetime contributing to the building of this country and contributing to our fiscus through income tax bat and other levies are at serious risk of falling below the upper bound poverty line as the cost of living rapidly rises. No citizen that has played the part of building our country should have to worry that they can even exist in it.

For these reasons Good also calls for an urgent re-evaluation of the pension framework and that we start to restructure our budget so that we can raise the old age pension to a dignified level that at least buffers our senior citizens from a precarious life.

Hon House Chairperson, when it comes to our energy crises, the solar energy incentives or initiatives linked to tax rebates and incentives are not nearly incentivised even enough nor inclusive as the option provided are not really accessible to any mid to low income South African. While Good has always advocated for incentives and financing to invest in renewables, the measures raise the questions of renewables for who? These incentives are a bonus for the rich, but do not address the energy crises in the country. This is a conceptual
failure for utilising the private sector or homeowners to alleviate the load shedding crisis.

The Budget is the radar that will guide the nation through the next financial year, but the environment we find ourselves in has storm clouds in the horizon. With the poverty pandemic and the load shedding crisis, we would have liked the Budget to be more directly responsible as the response to the existential crisis. Thank you.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, the NFP will support the report tabled here today. Let me first of all start by congratulating the DA for the quality of municipalities that you govern in the latest report released.

Let me also congratulate the ANC on the improved quality of some of your municipalities. Let me also congratulate eDumbe Local Municipality for improved audit outcome. Lastly,

Mr M HLENGWA: House Chairperson, on a point of order.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Lastly, I want to congratulate Okhahlamba Local Municipality for maintaining their unqualified audit report.

The hon Hlengwa, if I was you I would be very worried! I am addressing this to you as the Chairperson of Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa. If you look at the performance of some of the municipalities that you govern, uMzinyathi, Amajuba and uThukela District Municipalities, and Ulundi Local Municipality, if you look at the state of those municipalities, if I were you I would not be smiling, but address those things.

I am not here trying to attack you, but I think in the interest of the people we serve, we need to admit, yes.

The hon Buthelezi you spend more time at this podium attacking the ANC!

You were pointing there, but you could not see all the fingers pointing back at you! Look at the quality of the municipalities ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, order, hon members!

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of order.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Shaik Emam, there is a point of order. Please take a sit. Hon Hlengwa, what is the point of order?

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, will the hon member take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Shaik Emam, are you prepared to take a question?

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, I will not have enough time.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Hlengwa, hon Shaik Emam is not prepared to take a question.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: What I am giving you here is the facts! I am not making up anything! Speak to the Auditor-General and you will see what is exactly happening there.
So, your municipalities and your performance – in fact if you look at uMkhanyakude District Municipality, the Auditor- General cannot find enough data to even audit the municipality. That is how bad the situation is. So, your municipalities are performing very poorly!

Let us ask ourselves this question: What has really improved about the quality of life in KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, please do not drown the speaker!

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, I just wanted to point out that ... [Inaudible.] ... is governed by the ANC!

Mr B M HADEBE: Hlengwa, sit down!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Hlengwa!

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, I just wanted to correct the speaker at the podium that uMkhanyakude District Municipality is governed by the ANC and not the IFP!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Hlengwa, I did not recognise you. Please do not do that!

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Minister, I think we have a lot to worry about. Only 38 of the 257 municipalities have received unqualified audit and 88% of municipalities lack effective compliance control.

Now the use of external consultants, 84% of municipalities and one of the main reasons for that is because we do not have the skills and the capacity at the municipalities. Now that tells us that there is a lot of work to be done. I think that rather than standing and complaining, we should actually do something about it. That is why as the NFP we are asking hon Minister, biannually, to report to the Standing Committee on Appropriation on the financial status of all municipalities, including the cash reserves!

We are also asking hon Minister, to ensure that municipalities are mandated to report on the Treasury website on all tenders and procurements that they have been awarded with the details of who they were awarded to and the values of those contracts! We believe it will go a long way in eradicating corruption. I
have run out of time! The NFP will support the Appropriation Bill. Thank you very much.

Ms T V TOBIAS: Hon Chairperson, we must build on our progress over the past 29 years to take our country forward. We have built a solid constitutional state, established durable institutions of democracy and transformed government to serve all citizens. We have made significant strides in meeting basic human needs, but have not overcome inequality and poverty.

The Medium Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, is built on three foundational pillars: a strong and inclusive economy, capable South Africans, and a capable developmental state. through catalysing development opportunities and removing structural impediments to equality, opportunity, and freedom.
Developmental states play an active role in the pursuit of a particular vision for economic development. Ours is economic development for the total emancipation of all South Africans and black people in particular.

The current economic environment has taken a strain on our transformational imperatives as a result of the energy challenges and the European conflict leading to supply chain
shocks, putting our economy on the back foot with regard to low growth, thereby reproducing the triple challenges we are faced with as a nation.

Despite these headwinds, we are not in despair, we have shown resilience as country and overcome insurmountable odds in the past, we will pass this phase and return to high levels of growth, and the creation of job opportunities. The British writer Jodi Ann Bickley, once advised us, that:

When you are in the middle of a storm cloud, it’s hard to think outside of it, but the only way out of the storm is to ride through it and things will be a lot clearer on the other side.

We have chosen to ride through and address these challenges, and things are going to be clearer on the other side soon.

And this starts with the appropriation of this Bill, without the support and adoption of this Bill we will not be able to advance the growth and transformation we need as a country.

Both investments and localisation require industrial funding and other support. In driving a developmental state, this
support must come directly from the state. In the previous financial year. Last year, R30 billion was allocated for various incentives and industrial funding to be made available to firms based in South Africa.

Substantial progress is being made with efforts to beneficiate our raw materials; for example, a large new steel mill is under construction in Germiston that will use South African iron ore to produce flat-steel products and bring competition to the upstream market, employing about 300 new workers from townships like Katlehong.

Ten new factories are in full production in the new Tshwane SEZ employing over 2 500 workers; and in March this year, the ANC led government signed an MOU with the world’s 4th biggest car maker, Stellantis, which manufactures cares like Chrysler, Peugeot, and Opel amongst others, to explore the possible local assembly of their vehicles. This will have greater sin offs for the South African economy, particularly small businesses.

A number of successes were also achieved since the adoption of localisation policies in products such as pharmaceuticals, glassware, food products, clothing, car components, and many
others. A new cooking-oil refinery will open in Richards Bay later this year. Building on this, R40 billion is allocated to the Department of Trade and Industry in additional local output and commitments for this financial year.

The foundation for achieving this, is the public-private partnerships through which businesses are committing large sums of money to boost local procurement. The companies who have made these commitments include Coca-Cola, Air Liquide, Shoprite-Checkers, Pepsico, Consol Glass, Heineken, Implats, Mercedes Benz, VW, BMW, Ford, Nissan, Toyota and Isuzu. This all stats with the approbation of funds from this committee, with the state leading in investment we will not see the industrialisation and development we wish to see to transform our economy.

In terms of Agriculture the overall allocation for this financial year is R17, 2 billion including transfers to Provincial Departments of Agriculture as well as to the Entities that supports the work of the department in terms of its Constitutional mandate.

The 2023-24 allocation will enable government to implement programmes that continue to address food security needs of our
communities and our country, address land hunger, transform spatial planning, and contribute towards the development of our rural areas in partnership with other spheres of government. At the same time, these resources will be channelled towards ensuring that agriculture, land and rural sectors continue to play integral roles in economic reconstruction and recovery.

Through the conditional grant Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme and Ilima or Letsema has in the past financial year supported 15 853 and 25 781 farmers, respectively, mainly African women and youth. In this year, the provision of R2,15 billion will further assist farmers with production inputs and infrastructure from these two programmes.

The National Development Plan suggests that our SOEs need a clear public interest mandate and straightforward governance structures, enabling them to balance and reconcile their economic and social objectives. For the large SOEs involved in economic infrastructure provision, their mandate should include the imperative of financial viability and sustaining their asset base and balance sheet to maintain and expand services.
The SOEs must play a crucial role in helping South Africa to move to a higher level of development and leverage opportunities inherent in the 4th Industrial Revolution. We need to seize the opportunity to fix, repurpose, realign our SOEs to deliver on our developmental agenda. Our people need reliable trains to get to work. Our miners and farmers need efficient ports that enable them to export their produce and remain competitive.

We cannot allow our SOEs to fail they are there to serve the poorest of the poor, the bailout to these entities must not be seen as a burden to the fiscus but as a progressive manner of advancing our developmental agenda, we cannot, for instance, permit the collapse of the South African post office as our national postal Network remains a strategic advantage which delivers to about 12 million households and makes payments to millions of grant recipients. What will happen to these people when we permit the privatisation or collapse of the post office?

Our 2023-24 budget allocation of R79,565 billion will be channelled towards delivering on these tangible outcomes of the R79,565 billion, total transfers and subsidies account for approximately 98% of the department’s expenditure to the tune
of R77,9 billion, in the 2023-24 financial year. Of this, R47,2 billion are transfers to our public entities and agencies, and R30,2 billion is transfers to other spheres of government. earmarked for road refurbishment, disaster relief and the construction of 96 Welisizwe bridges in rural areas.

Through some of the appropriated funds by this Parliament, in the sixth administration, we have made significant milestones which include the manufacturing of modern trains at the Gibela factory in Ekurhuleni, recovery of critical commuter rail corridors following devastating theft and vandalism of our rail infrastructure.

Work to rebuild commuter rail continues in earnest. In the last financial year, we committed to recovering 10 priority corridors, the ANC-led government has been able to recover 13 in this regard, far exceeding the target. For the 2023-24 financial year, a transfer of R20,5 billion is made to the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa. These funds will mainly focus on implementing Prasa’s strategic corridor recovery programme, signalling and continuing with its rolling stock renewal drive.
As I wrap up, allow me to quote the words of former US President Obama, at the occasion of his address to UN general Assembly in 2014, who said:

We choose hope over fear. We see the future not as something out of control, but as something we can shape for the better through concerted and collective effort.

The ANC-led government is not fearful of the future. We came here to shape it for the betterment of the lives of all south Africans. We shall overcome. God bless South Africa and its people. I thank you.

Mr A N SARUPEN: Hon House Chair, this is my fifth Appropriation Bill speech and it is entertaining listening to these speeches because today we heard the ANC trying to speak from a position of strength. The hugeness in each of these five debates I participated from the ANC seems to be growing stronger and stronger while the ANC itself goes weaker and weaker. Now, this weakness is most simplified in what is happening in municipal coalitions that the ANC has had with the EFF. The EFF insults, attack you and stormed your President on the stage but because you are weak you gave them
control of major cities like the City of Johannesburg and Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipalities.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order hon members.


Mr A N SARUPEN: This morning your President has had to concede to that need that the private sector to help him run the country because you have built an incapable state. Weak, weak, weak. This time might be the last time that the ANC passes the budget of its own and the country is better for it. This last ANC budget shows the same problems as characterised by government for the last five years. We cannot turn a blind eye to these problems.

Statistics SA data shows that our GDP expand only at 0,4% on the Quarter 1 of this year, narrowly escaping a recession.
This lacklustre growth reflects the various factors that the ANC has failed to deal with or made worse such as corruption, poor capacity in the state, state capture and bad geopolitical decisions. This is evidence of the weak ANC that cannot fix South Africa’s issues.

The sovereign spread are at risk but South Africa remains higher and the pre-pandemic average indicating consistent
concerns about economic stability. Debt sustainability has been flagged as a major concern because of the state-owned enterprise, SOE liabilities mostly as a consequence of theft and corruption. This is because of the weak ANC that cannot deal with corruption.

One of the most pressing issues is the lack of progress in the energy crisis. It is amazing these ANC speakers speak as if load shedding is new. In 2007, if you were born in that year, you would be 16 years old today. Now, in 16 years, you have a weak party that has not been able to take any of the meaningful decisions or implement any of the projects to resolve load shedding. Load shedding will continue to persist for the foreseeable future which means there are people who are going to have dark from birth into adult world knowing nothing but load shedding. Only weak organisation lies about the crisis to persist that long.

Moreover, we must address some concerns regarding this particular budget itself. The Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, raises questions about government’s ability to respectively manage public financing. We witnessed a tendency for Treasury to routinely overestimate the growth
targets on the budget which erodes trust on these projections and undermines long-term financial stability.

We further note and propose R45,6 billion to fund the current crude costs of the 2022/23 public sector wage increase despite the fact that the Finance Minister and many other have flagged public sector wage bill as the major risk. However, in the same MTEF, increase in the infrastructure only amount to
R42,8 billion and for structures that engineer growth but this allocation points to a weak ANC-led government that is not interested in using infrastructure to stimulate growth. They know that they can buy on time to make sure that all of the cadres that are deployed in government, these card carrying party members get paid as well as they can before they lose the elections.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, it is our duty as representatives of the South African voting public to abdicate for responsible governments, fiscal prudence and the pursuit of the policies that foster economic growth and upliftment. It is quite clear that there is one political party in this House that has completely given up and all of those things. The proposed budget raises legitimate concerns about the country’s future. We cannot afford the ANC’s policies anymore. We cannot afford
weakness. It is time for change and I hope that change does come and this is the last ANC’s budget that I debate. Thank you very much.

Mr Z MLENZANA: Hon House Chairperson, the ANC supports the Bill. Perhaps, let me say hon Chairperson and hon Minister that today I am tempted to talk to South Africans. Just one message that, South Africa please discern, the ANC has made great achievements, which is one. Number two, we know that there are challenges. Three, we have a plan for these challenges. Now, let me justify. Ewe present this budget during the Youth Month on the backdrop of the yawning inequalities amongst South Africans, a rising cost of living and the rise in the unemployment that is sitting 32,9%.

South Africa is still faced with structural challenges which are disproportionally felt by the youth. One particular manifestation of the crisis facing young people is that nearly
4 million of the young people between the ages of 15 and 24 are neither in education nor employment nor training. Comrade O R Tambo, once warned us that:
The children of any nation are its future. A country, a movement, a person that does not value its youth and children does not deserve its future.

In other words, the future of this country is inevitably linked to the support and investment provided to and for young people. At the heart of our sector is learning and at the heart of improving learning is improving reading in the early grades. The ANC has placed education as the apex priority for self-liberation. We have a duty to empower people to reach their full potential envisaged in our Constitution. Hence the overall 2023/24 budget for the Department of Education is at R31,8 billion which is an increase of 7% from last year’s overall allocation.

We are pleased when we note that there are improvements particularly with regard to ensuring that there is water supply to school, particularly those in the rural and underdeveloped provinces. According to the school’s register of development and needs there was a total of 8823 without water supply, a total of 1376 water supply projects through the Accelerated Schools Infrastructure Delivery Initiative Asidi programme were underway by then of which 1292 have been
completed as I speak now. The 14 remaining schools to be attended to will be dealt with this financial year.

Let us recognise the progress that has been made in eradicating mud schools and pit latrines in our schools. However, Comrade Kwankwa, you are my comrade? Is it not so? We must acknowledge the fact that much as work has been done, it is not 100%, a lot still has to be done. But as I have said, the ANC-led government is aware of these challenges and accepting, hence it has a plan to deal with these challenges.

Apartheid reactionary DA fundamentally damaged the special socioeconomic environments in which our families live, work and raise their families to fulfil their aspirations. Hence then we pride ourselves about the manner in which the local government is postured so that it plays a critical role in rebuilding the mess which was done by the apartheid so that our people and the environment can have the basic for the democratic prosperous and a truly nonracial society.

This budget is actually allocating R121,7 billion to this effect that is going to the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. If now you look at this, this allocation is expected to increase at an average rate of
5,9%, Madiba from R121,7 billion in this 2023/24 financial year to R136,4 billion in 2025. The largest portion of this budget is allocated to transfer to the municipalities at an estimated of R364,7 billion which is 9,5% of the total allocation over the MTEF period. I am raising these figures so that people out there can know because I have picked up that in this House you have got sync of people who are just here to make noise. They are on corruption, cadre deployment on this and that but listen to this Chief Whip. The ANC never stole people’s land in 1962 but them who stole the land.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members.


Mr Z MLENZANA: Listen to them. I do not mind about them because they know that at no stage that the reactionary DA ever subscribed to the notion of a developmental state. I know them. Lastly, they are here jumping up and down like popcorns, talking about the crisis of the world economies. The failure of the world of economies is as the result of them. They are actually eating and benefiting from the fruits of capitalism.


Babuye benze ingxolo apha. Ndibane ke ndisizela -

... I have to choose my words because one of my comrades had to apologise yesterday in terms of language but...


 ... bayandikhathaza aba bantu bakule ndawo abangafanelenga ukuba bakuyo. Bayazazi bona.

You know yourselves and you should be worried. You know you are not smiling but you are grinning because you are not supposed to be sitting where you are right now. Let me pass, I have got only three minutes left. Let me just quickly talk on water and sanitation where this financial R10,1 billion has been allocated to the municipalities through the regional infrastructure grant of R4,6 billion to municipalities through the water services infrastructure grant which will be spend to
130 different projects across the country.


In February this year, municipalities owed R16,7 billion to water boards and municipalities and water boards in turn owed the department R17,4 billion. You know, this is worrying. We just cannot go without mentioning that it is worrying.
However, we must also the positives. You know the Department
of Social Development receives the largest share of the national budget which is R263 billion, a growth of 8,8%. Just to lift one thing from that budget.


Yila mali bathi abantu abasokolayo yimali kaRamaphosa.



They would also sing that...

...uRamaphosa uyamthanda umahlalela.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, please you are drowning the speaker now. Hon Minister, Mageba. Hon Ceza, I will give her an opportunity to converse with the Minister after sitting.

Mnu Z MLENZANA: Abafuni ukuyiva iinyaniso aba.


The Department of Health has allocated R60,5 billion this financial year. However, there is a decline here and we are concerned Treasury because we want to see and realise the implementation of the National Health Insurance, NHI. Hence we are saying the historic approach to keep public services will only weaken the capacity of the state provided we do not pick up the piece. But then lastly, as I have said it before, the ANC has made great achievements. We know our challenges and we have plans for them and that is why we support the Bill. I thank you.


UMPHATHISWA WEZEZIMALI: Sihlalo weNdlu yoWiso-mthetho yeSizwe, mandikhahlele wena kuqala. Ndenjenjeya ukuya kukhahlela ndamkele noKrila, uThangana kwela cala. Ndiyakusizela qha Thangana kuba uza kufunda imikhuba ongayaziyo sele umdala. Oko kuxhentsa kwenziwa kwelo cala akuyiyo intanga yakho ntanga.
Uza kufunda ezo zinto ke sele umdala, ndiyakusizela.


Ilungu elihloniphekileyo uNtlangwini lithethe into elungileyo apha okokuqala. Uyaqala ukuthetha into elungileyo namhlanje. Ithini ke len nto atithethileyo? Uthi, olu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali asiyiyo imali kaNongxowa weSizwe, yimali yabantu baseMzantsi Afrika. Umsebenzi wethu kukuthi ebantwini nakule Ndlu yoWiso-
mthetho yeSizwe, urhulumente olawulayo zithini na iziphakamiso azibeka phambi kwale Ndlu. Iza kuba yile Ndlu ke ezihlalutyayo. Senza loo nto ke namhlanje.

Ingxaki ke isekubeni, oogxa bethu aba bakweli cala kuba kusondele unyulo bayabhampula basukile kule nto sithetha ngayo. Abaxoxi le yokuba le mali sinayo apha phambi kwethu siyabe njani na, bona bayakhankasa. Yinto enzima ke leyo. Loo nto ibangela ukuba ingxoxo ke ngoku ingabi ntle. Makhe ndiye esiNgesini.


Hon George is correct. We are debating this Appropriation Bill in a changed environment from February, no doubt about that, which over the time is likely to have an impact on the numbers we’re going to table in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. The assumption for instance we made was that growth outlook will be from a point 0,9%. The SA Reserve Bank at the time was sitting at 0,2% and has moved now to 0,3. What makes these differences in the assumptions? The difference in the assumptions is that the International Monetary Fund, IMF is sitting at 0,1%.
What are these differences in the assumptions? The difference in the assumptions is how you model the intensity of load shedding not much on the fundamentals, I agree. The question is: How do you model the assumptions of load shedding? And, indeed, load shedding as is likely to have an impact, which may be substantial. We are going to watch the developments over the next few months and revise our numbers if necessary. accordingly.

There’s the issue of interest rates and inflation targeting. I think part of the difficulty, I’m not necessarily talking about the SA Reserve Bank.


Usibali wam lo uTshawe ...



... raises this issue, a fundamental economic argument but he misses the point ...


... ahambe emke ke ngoku athethe mgamasela ...

... instead of focusing only on the economic issues. If the hon member were to watch what was happening on run, mind you the SA Reserve Bank’s function is not only to fight inflation, but to protect the value of the currency. In the presence of movements of the currency as a result of global issues, the SA Reserve Bank has got an obligation to protect the currency wherever that decision we may have to debate about it. But ...

... xa ndibuyela kolu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali. Olu hlahlo lwabiwo- mali luzama ukuqubisana nedlala egqubayo, ukuqubisana nedlala. Apha eMzantsi Afrika akukho mntu ungafumani mali yokuthenga isonka. Loo nto ke yenziwa ngulo rhulumente we-ANC. Apha eMzanti Afrika akukho mntu ungenamali yokuthenga isonka atye, hayi eMzantsi Afrika. Ngaphandle kokuba ke uphila kwelinye ilizwe

We have about R40 billion which is looking at the Social Relief of Distress Grant, R25 billion looks at the Extended Public Works Programme. About another R10 billion which is looking at the Public Employment Programme. Round that up, it is about R70 billion. That is in addition to other R70 billion which looks at indigent policies. That takes it to
R140 billion subsidising the poor. So, when we talk about these things, let us be more clearer about that. So ...

... xa sithetha ezi zinto ke – ingxaki yaba bantu bakweli icala bendibanqandile ngala mini besixoxa apha kuba abeva. Bahleli ephupheni lokuba kulo nyaka uzayo baza kulawula.
Ndifuna ukubaxelela le nto ke namhlanje umyinge we-55 ekhulwini wabavoti awukhange uvote. Zezethu aziyanga phaya kubo, abavotelwanga bona. Abantu bakuthi bafuna nje sibalungiselele babuye bavote kodwa abazi kuvotela nina, baza kuvotela thina.

Ndiphinde ndanixelela enye into kuba kukho abanye benu abathi singangamfumani umyinge we-50 ekhulwini. Nokuba asimfumenanga umyinge we-50 ekhulwini, iqela eliza kusoloko lilikhulu kweli lizwe leli lilawulayo. Iqela eliza kuba likhulu leli lilawulayo. Akukho mntu unokwakha urhulumente kweli lizwe ngaphandle kwethu. Into eza kunibetha nina apha yile yokuba niza kugula ukuphumelela kwethu apha. Okwesibini nixoke nithi senze ubuqhophololo kwinkqubo yonyulo. Nantso into eza kunehlela. Niza kothuka nigule nithi hayi makuphindwe kubalwe. Kuya kufuneka kuphinde kubalwe kuna niza kothka nyhani kuba senizilungiselele ukulawula. Ndicela ukuba kule Ndlu yoWiso-
mthetho yeSizwe, abantu abaneenjongo zokuba abantu babenento yokutya bapasise olu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali ukuzwe ndikwazi ukubhatala abantu ukubheka phambili. Mna? Mamela ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order! Order hon members. Hon Minister, please do not be intimidated just ...


UMPHATHISWA WEZEZIMALI: Hayi utsho kakuhle. Mamela, mna andizi kubuya xa ndingafuni hayi ngenxa yala maphupha enu.
Ndiyanicela maan, khanike nizilungiselele kwinto yokuba anizi kuphumelela kungenjalo niza kugula, ukuqala kwaba kuba abazi kuphumelela. Zilungiseni nina qha nijonge ukuba niza kusebenzisana njani nathi njengeqela elikhulu. Sihlalo ndiyehla, bendisabalungisa nje ukuze abahlali boMzantsi Afrika bayazi inyani.

English: Bye-bye.

Question put.


Agreed to.
Debate concluded.


Bill read a first time (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, African Christian Democratic Party, Freedom Front Plus and United Democratic Movement dissenting).



(Consideration of Votes and Schedule)

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, can we be attentive? Yes. Thank you very much. Let me first... Hon Aries asseblief [please.] Let me first thank the parties for indicating to the staff which votes they are going to make declarations on, which means that at this time I have a document here where you have indicated where you are going to make statements. If that has not been done, can I ask the Whips to come to the table and make that available, because I am only going to work with what I have because that was requested before this meeting. And on which they will record their objections and on which they intend to divide. That information will be very helpful to the process today.
Hon members, I will put each vote and ask parties for the declaration of their vote as they have indicated. Members who are in the Chamber may make declarations of the vote from the floor microphones and if you wish on the podium. And those that are on the Virtual Platform will be recognized. I hope the table is logged in so that they can see if members are raising their hands on the gadgets.

Hon members... [Interjections.] ... Okay, I’m done there. I will then put the decision to the vote. Hon members are reminded that in terms of Rule 1085, a global time for declarations of the vote has been agreed upon. And the parties may make their declarations according to the agreed time allocation. Each party knows its time. The staff will help me with this. If your time is up, you can no longer make a declaration. So make sure that you time yourself so that you can make your declarations. Once a party’s allotted time is exhausted, they will not be recognized to make another declaration.

For the divisions, the bells will be rung for five minutes and then for one minute. We are allowed to ring the bells for up to 15 seconds. For the first division, the same will happen
after the break, the bells will be rung for five minutes, one minute, 30 seconds, and up to 15 seconds.

Hon members, I hope we are clear on what we are going to be doing from now. Those who have not registered whether they will be doing declarations because I am not going to deviate.

I hope you have indicated to the table that you are going to participate so that they give that information to me. I now put Budget Vote No 1 - The Presidency – put. The declarations of the vote have been requested, and I will start with the DA.

Vote No 1 - The Presidency – put.

Declaration of votes:

Ms S J GRAHAM: House Chairperson, picture the scene, South Africa 2023, a man has been married for several years to a loyal, albeit belligerent, coal-loving spouse decides to opt for a brighter and shinier new partner, a snappy dresser, and a sassy dancer. Before said man has the opportunity to get his side hustle established, the spurned spouse demands all the spoils of divorce, the money, the house, the cars, and the kids.
What we have is a jealous and embittered ex holding on to what was, versus a naive and optimistic new spouse eagerly anticipating what could be. Sound familiar? It should.

This is the sad story of the love triangle that is our country’s response to the electricity crisis. In searching for solutions to load shedding, President Ramaphosa has effectively traded in the stoic, stubborn, and single-minded Gwedi Mantashe for the flashy, fleet-footed, and energetic Dr Kgosientsho Ramokgopa. And what could have been a functional and mutually beneficial marrying of the minds has turned into a dysfunctional battle of wills.

Minister Mantashe is unwilling to relinquish his powers, his budget, or his attachment to long-term dreams as opposed to short-term solutions. And instead of dealing decisively with the situation, President Ramaphosa, in an act of appeasement that would have given Neville Chamberlain palpitations, has kowtowed.

He has given Dr Ramokgopa the title of Minister of Electricity but has left him with no space to define his mandate, has provided him with almost no powers, and is requiring him to fund his solutions with the assistance of the private sector.
The Presidency is Dr Ramokgopa’s home in name only. Until Dr Ramokgopa is truly resourced and empowered to solve the load- shedding crisis, he will not be remembered as the Minister of Electricity, but rather as the Minister of mega-what. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members. This is hon Manyi’s maiden speech.

Mr M J MANYI: Chairperson, firstly, let me greet the commander in chief of the Freedom Fighters and the leadership. I stand here today to reject this fruitless and wasteful expenditure for the Budget Vote of the Presidency.

South Africa’s economy has been dwindling in terms of size, and quality since Mr Ramaphosa took office. Every life in South Africa is becoming increasingly difficult for everyone. There is a growing consensus, even in the business community, that South Africa is becoming a failed state.

Unemployment continues to escalate. More than 50% of South Africa’s labour force is not in employment, is not in education or training, or has simply given up on finding
employment. The cost of food, petrol, everything, and the overall standard of living has become unaffordable for all.

Mr Ramaphosa, the dithering President, has failed to present a credible and dependable solution to the crisis facing South Africa. He has been unable to lead a programme to develop and implement a believable solution to the current electricity crisis in the country. Instead of considering practical solutions that the revolutionary movement, the EFF, presented during the state of the nation address, like building additional capacity, floating storage reclassification units, nuclear power, full completion of the Cahora-Bassa hydropower project with the necessary urgency and speed, he disregarded all these practical proposals.

Three months after the announcement, Mr Ramaphosa gave powers to the dancing Minister to deliver false promises to Parliament and the people of South Africa, claiming that he will source 1 500 megawatts from Lesotho. The same Minister said he would bring 4 200 megawatts within the next 90 days, even when Eskom is prohibited from using any of the fiscal stimulus to finance additional ... [Interjections.] ...

Mr A H M PAPO: Point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M G Boroto): Hon Manyi, please take your seat. Order members. Why are you a rising hon member?

Mr A H M PAPO: I rise to speak under Rule 84 of the Rules of Procedure. It was decided yesterday that members who wish to designate themselves as dancing members may do so. But no other Members may use that designation for other Members. The decision was made yesterday by the Speaker of the House.
However, I have no problem with that speech.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M G Boroto): No problem. Proceed hon Manyi.

Mr M J MANYI: ... time! Particularly gender-based violence is out of control. Women and children are killed every day, and people are dying due to poor water conditions in Hammanskraal, ground and the President doesn’t take any responsibility whatsoever. His government is now advising people not to drink water in their taps. This man has failed.

This man has failed and is proving to be the worst President in post-apartheid South Africa. Instead, he is bloating the Presidency with useless envoys, commissions, and Ministers, and creating a kitchen Cabinet in the Presidency. The man
should simply resign. His Presidency has already been characterized by corruption. The country is now under greylisting because of the money laundering shenanigans of the Phala Phala farm.

The President has also not been exemplary in respecting the laws of this country. Foreign exchange regulations are very clear that if you have foreign currency, you have 30 days to declare it. This President sat with foreign currency for 45 days. We are surprised that the Acting Public Protector has not been found against him. In conclusion, for us as Economic Freedom Fighters, we are saying for this country to move forward Ramaphosa must resign. Thank you.

Mr S N SWART: Thank you, Chairperson. The ANC veteran and former Finance Minister, Mr Trevor Manuel, issued a scathing criticism of South Africa’s political leadership saying that there was no doubt that South Africa’s corruption, crime and lawlessness had increased because of weak leadership and a lack of political will. The ACDP agrees and lay these failures squarely at the door of the President, the head of the executive.
Now, this is starkly illustrated by the President’s desperate plea to the private sector to assist government where it has failed. This initiative is for executives from the largest companies, to form a crisis committee to address power shortages, inefficient ports and rampant crime in the country. It is the central role of the government to address crime and to protect its citizens.

Citizens do not feel safe in their households, in the public roads and at schools. Where do you have the situation, where you have a brigadier of the SA Police Service is too afraid for his life to appear before Parliament? Understandably, given the assassination of Lieutenant Tinier who exposed corruption in the SAPS itself.

Chairperson, the state has failed dismally to build the economy and to set it on a path of sustained inclusive growth. Citizens are desperate. This huge involvement, again, of the private sector, graphically shows the incapable state. It is hamstring by maladministration, certain policies, crime and corruption. This, under the President’s leadership.

Chairperson, business citizens are quickly losing patience with the President. He was elected in 2019 on a promise to
revive the economy on a province of electoral reform. Yes, we have seen reform and the ACDP does give credit, where credit is due, with certain institutions that have been improved.
However, if you look at the results and if you look at unemployment at unprecedented levels, with economic growth almost nonexistent and the countries depreciated currency at an all-time low.

This is due to own goals, such as the country stance on Russia, greylisting, other poor policy issues and loadshedding. The ACDP believes that the buck stops with the President and that the president must be held accountable for the dire state of the nation. Of course, we have got elections coming up in 2024 and the ACDP will play a key role in governments after 2024. I thank you.


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Ha ke lebohe ho wena, Modilasetulo, ho maloko a hlomphehileng a Ntlo ena ...


... and fellow South Africans.

... siyaluxhasa olu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali kuhlahlwa kusabelwa uMongameli kunye noSekela Mongameli ...


... to execute the electoral mandate.



Re e tshehetsa ka ho phethahetseng.

The presidency is the strategic centre of planning in leadership as well as co-ordination and mobilisation of government and society in common programs to address the nation’s critical needs and interests.


Uxanduva lubekwe kumagxa akho Mongameli noSekela Mongameli ukukhokela eli lizwe. Ngoko ke aninakuze ke nishiye igaba entsimini.


The societal leadership role of the Presidency requires financial resources to ensure that the Presidency is equipped
with requisite skills and capabilities to respond to the complex challenges facing our nation - the challenges that are poverty, unemployment and inequality. We have placed the President and the Presidency as the custodians of the development of our national democratic society, advancing and affirming policy through overseeing implementation of the MTEFs, by Cabinet for socioeconomic transformation.

Sesotho: Modulasetulo ...


... hi khensile ...


... siyathokoza.


Question put.


Objections noted.


Division called.

The House divided.


Voting (Political Parties):



Vote 1 is agreed to.


Vote No 2 - Parliament - put.

Declarations of vote:

Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi mifutshane mama le miboko yokuthetha kwaye ungandinqandi mama ndifuna ukusebenzisa ixesha lam ngolu hlobo lwam, ndiyakucela.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay, no problem.


Mr N L S KWANKWA: Comrades, last month President Ramaphosa abandoned any legal challenge in the Section 81 Panel report which dealt with the Phala Phala saga. In this institution we have in the past made sure that in instances where there are allegations against a sitting Head of State, Member of the Executive or Parliament ...

... siqiniseke ukuba umntu uyaphandwa.


There is no reason why this institution Parliament in particular should not establish its own ad hoc committee ...


... ukuphanda uMongameli uRamaphosa nezityholo zakhe kuba kuza kuphinda kubekho ...


... another commission of enquiry in a couple of years from now ...

... iphinde ithi iPalamente iye yasilela ekwenzeni umsebenzi wayo.

The same thing ...


... iphinde ifane nokuthi kule nto

... of SA Airways, SAA we have been dealing as this institution with the circumstances surrounding the sale of South African Airways, SAA, in piecemeal fashion. One day ...


... ivela phambi kwale ikomiti kolunye usuku ivela phambi kwenye ikomiti ...


... without us having a way of investigating and say here is an ad hoc committee to enquire into the sale. We can’t abdicate that responsibility and leave it to the Competition Commission when SAA as a state-owned enterprise accounts to us. I want as a parting shot ...


... mama ndiyeke ndihambe ndiyayazi ukuba ixesha lam ndiyalitya. Ndifuna ukuphendula wena Mphathiswa ndithi umzekelo, ...


... the first thing is that yes, I know that the intention is to attack portfolio investments as you’ve already indicated.
But remember, in the post-2008 era or rather especially after the crisis of COVID-19, public debt is high. So, once the interest rate is high when you’re trying to fend off inflation, the problem that you’re going to have is that, when you’re servicing debt there are immediate implications firstly, for fiscal policy of government. Also, we always talk about the lag in economic theory, between the time lag between when the first decision is made and when it’s felt on the economy, the central bank doesn’t consider that.

Secondly, the frequency of shocks has changed. If you consider 1970 it was supply side. The chairperson will tell you that since about 2008 it’s been demand side issues. Now it’s not about demand side issues. The factors have changed completely. It’s exogenous factors as you indicated. Meaning there needs to be a rethink of monetary policy in the 21st century.

Singahlali kwizinto zowe-1990 neeNew Zealand ...



... where the factors where completely different. I thank you.
Ms N P MAHLO: House Chairperson, good day and all protocols observed, declaration on Budget Vote 2. The ANC supports Vote
2 on Parliament. House Chairperson, do we all know that Parliament is a tribune of the people of South Africa? It should consistently be resourced directly to ensure that the accessibility for all people beyond race, class and gender varying ability or disability.

The ANC believes in an active Parliament which has a strong connection and relation with the people, through the effective Parliament participation of all citizens who live in it.

House Chairperson, I believe Parliament has a responsibility of ensuring and deepens democracy and advance the realisation of the imperative of our Constitution.

In conclusion hon House Chairperson, I think we all agree that this budget vote supports all key elements of advancing activism in Parliament. We also welcome the funding allocations for the restoration of Parliament, and we shall play our oversight role in making sure that reconstruction is taken seriously, when they implement accordingly. We will do our best as the committee of Parliament. I thank you House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I have parties that object to Vote 2, the DA, the FF Plus and the ACDP. Hon Mente?

Ms N V MENTE: The EFF calls for a division.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, I will allow for the division but let me say please, can we as I requested when we started – hon Mente maybe you were not here, that we have been supplied with a list ... no, I’m not saying I am denying, I’m just reminding you that we’ve been given a list and there was no one for what you call a division. If you intend to do that, please assist us by approaching the Table so that as we proceed, we don’t have a problem. The division having been called, the bells will be rung for one minute.

Question put.


Division demanded.


The House divided: [Take in from minutes.]


Vote accordingly greed to.
Vote No 3 - Co-operative Governance – put.

Declarations of vote:
Mr J F SMALLE: Hon House Chairperson, practical issues pertaining to provincial and local government sector as well as traditional leadership must be considered well planned and not be compromised at the expense of society or harm the public. The Inter-Ministerial Task Team resolved to bailout the Eskom over the next three years of a sum of R254 billion. The Municipal Debt Relief will see most of the R37 billion owed by municipalities written off without any accounting officers held accountable or not implementing financial controls.

Monitoring of section 71, 72 and 73 and section 46, 47 and 48 reports are simply not done by this government which led to 44% of our municipalities having unfunded budget and 16 municipalities not submitting their financial statement on time of those financial statements that were outstanding for more than a period of two years or more. These actions demonstrated the disregard of this ANC national government to safeguard the financial fiscus against none accountability and maladministration.
The mandate of the department is to develop a functional and developmental local government system that delivers on its constitutional and legislative mandate within a system of co- corporate governance.

The department did not deliver on its mandate to align its Annual Performance Plans, APPs, and budget. Both the Green Drop and the Blue Drop report indicates that 65% of our waste water treatment plants as well as our water purification plants have collapsed and is at high risk of noncompliance to various legislation.

Ninety municipalities face criminal charges. Section 15 requires your department to support municipalities like many of our SOEs and department you simply failed like that.


Vhathu vho vha si na ndavha.


Thank you very much.


Ms H O MKHALIPHI: House Chair, we reject this budget. Minister, on 30 May 2023, Nkomazi Local Municipality adopted a
budget that has no allocation for ward 11. The people of KaHhoyi, Govha, Eric’s Village voted for the EFF ward councillor to deliver water.

When the EFF ward councillor raised the matter in the Council, ANC members resorted to criminality and violence perhaps encouraged by the witnessing similar behaviour in Parliament used to protect the incompetent President. There is a road D2953 covering the entrances to KaHhoyi Village and connecting the village with kaMandulo, kaMasibekela, kaMbangwane and other villages. The tar road has deteriorated to a point that it is now essentially gravel. Funding for the rehabilitation of the road has been reported with the budget provision made for only 2025 for a project that has already begun. By the time the second phase of the project comes around there will be nothing left to rehabilitate. We believe this is an attempt to frustrate the people of KaHhoyi who gave a mandate to the EFF board councillor. This is the level of pertinent we are dealing with on daily basis. This project could also produce work for the people in ward 11. So, at the same time, the EFF labour desk is going to demonstrate its strength there at Optimum Mine in Mpumalanga because about 3 000 workers are going to be retrenched. Under this ANC government, the
Minister Gwede Mantashe does not care about the workers in this country.

Chairperson, the majority of municipalities have collapsed. The collapsed of municipalities signifies the collapse of service delivery of water infrastructure, road and sanitation infrastructure. The EFF is in government in the City of Johannesburg, Ekurhuleni, eThekwini, Nelson Mandela Bay, Mogale City and West Rand District. We are going to demonstrate to our people that it is possible to have municipalities that pass people’s budget as we are governing as we speak now. Just learn from us. Learn from the best.

In Ekurhuleni, we have already began. Just listen, Ekurhuleni, we have already began. Just listen, Ekurhuleni, we have already began work to implement ... [Inaudible.] ... enhancement measures.

The HOUSE Chairperson (MS M G Boroto): Order.


Ms H O MKHALIPHI: We are building municipal capacity to collect waste regularly and in a cost-efficient manner. We will carry out this approach everywhere we are given governance responsibility. Stop stealing trucks at Ekurhuleni
because you are showing ... [Inaudible] ... We reject this budget.

Mr E M BUTHELEZI: Maybe I should start even if the clock is not ready. It will come on the way.

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Yini engasebenzi? Awunasikhathi namhlanje ...

You have a global time.


Mr E M BUTHELEZI: Chairperson, listening briefings by the Auditor-General informed us that only 38 municipalities out of
257 received clean audit which is a further deteriorating from the previous year. The reason cited was the shortage of sills, poor accountability and poor leadership were cited as the reasons and this should not be the case when you try to count how many years we have got local government.

Further to this, what is also worrying is the accumulated R4,74 billion in fruitless and wasteful expenditure which impacts directly to the service delivery and further to this
R25,47 billion unauthorised expenditure. I think this, hon Chairperson, are things that clearly shows us that if we are serious about service delivery and we have got right leadership at the end we will be able to solve all these problems.

But further to that, I want to deal, hon Chairperson, with this very irritating flea, which is Emam Shaik of this House. He must really try to focus on eDumbe.

Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order, Chair.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Hlala phansi kancane Nkosi.


Yes, hon member.


Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, I am rising on Rule 84.




Mr B A RADEBE I think is unparliamentary to call another member a flea.


Mr B A RADEBE: A flea. [Interjections.] A flea.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay. I will check on that one. Thank you. I will check on it.

Mr B A RADEBE: Thank you, Chair.


Mr E M BUTHELEZI: I just want to remind him that NFP is dissolving this man. I think this is what might be worrying him too much. I hope that the ANC will do that which is right because you have got your own members to deliver not irritating members like himself who is trying to beg for bread. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You don’t appear. I have just been talking about this. You don’t appear here, but I will allow you for the last time. Did you only do it now?

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, let me at the outset say that the NFP will support all the Budget Votes here today. It is not our policy not to support this. In the interest of the people we serve, we have to approve the budget, so that we can
continue to deliver services. Let us not make it appear that because it is an ANC’s government, we must not pass its budget. The fact of the matter is that many political parties like I alluded to earlier on are governing in different parts of the country, some hopelessly as well. There is no doubt about it.

You can see the situation like I raised about KwaZulu-Natal earlier on, run by the IFP and the state of the governance in those areas and yet, he wants to come here and justify that it is a fact. It is not me; it is the Auditor-General that says it. It is the people on the ground that are complaining. It is the people that are walking eight kilometres to get water, 29 years later, run by the IFP.

So, let us not make it look that there are only challenges as far as the governing party is concerned. Everywhere that you govern, there are problems. There is no doubt about it.

Let me say this. Allow me to pay tribute and extend our condolences to the family and particularly the mother and father of Mohammed Tamimi, the two-and-a-half-year-old child that was masticate, shot mercilessly by the barbaric Israeli army and what is worse, all they could do is to say that they
are sorry. I think, from that perspective, it is time we as this government take stringent actions. I want to agree with hon Mandla Mandela, I think we need to boycott Israel, shut down their embassy, restrict any trade with them. And more importantly, we must deal with the issue of South Africans that are training in the Israeli military that will pose a seriousness to this country at some stage, if we are not going to do it.

Very importantly, ensure that Palestinians can also come here visa-free, but put in place stringent visa conditions for these Israeli citizens that are coming into this country.

Having said that, hon Minister, you have heard the state of local government and I think you know and understand what needs to be done, as far as a local government perspective is concerned. That is the heartbeat of the delivery of services and if you are not well capacitated and if you don’t have people there with integrity, you continuously going to sit with the problem of delivering services.

A lot this has nothing to do with this House or national government. There are three different spheres of government. People have the same mandate and responsibility to deliver and
they are not delivering. I think it is a serious problem. You can see that the Auditor-General’s report.

On the issue of policing, Minister, I want to say this, we can pump in more and more resources in there, bring in more police officers, but we have to get to the root causes of the high levels of crime. We have to. We had the opportunity ... Allow me also to pay tribute to our former Chairperson, Tina Joemat- Patterson. She refused point blank to approve the budget for the police, unless there was a guarantee or a report that could convince us that they had dealt with some of the challenges like the firearms registry, which resulted in us on a weekend, two weeks ago, going there to see for ourselves that indeed, there was progress. That is when she was happy to say that we can approve this budget report. So, she was very dedicated and committed. Allow me to pay tribute to her.

Having said that, I think on the issue of crime, we found that there were hundreds of taverns open 24 hours a day, bottle stores, second-hand dealers and also illegal miners in the country. Now, you need to deal with this problem, if you want to deal with crime.
I know that the local government has bylaws, which they can put in place. I know that there is a bylaw that you cannot have a tavern within 100 meters of a school or a church and things, but it is there. We are doing very little about it. So, I think, we need to do that.

On the issue of police officers, I want to say again and again, the process we are using in recruiting is not going to solve the problem. We have heard when we went there how many of them, after being recruited and pitched up in Pretoria, went back home. They had better job offers opportunities offered to them.

So, they are not passionate about policing. They needed a job. When they got a better opportunity, they were gone. So, we are saying introduce that at Basic Education level as a subject on policing. You will make a big difference, if we can do that.

Pay these police officers a decent wage. Give them benefits like danger allowance, R23 a day. Tell me who is going to send their child. Something must be wrong with us. In terms of housing, they are not entitled to RDP houses on the one hand and they cannot get financing from the bank either. So, what are they supposed to do? Live in the shacks with firearms?
Being attacked? Thirty-five police officers die in this country every year.

For those that are governing at local government, particularly those that are attacking each other, what have stopped you in these 29 years to given every South African family in your area or municipality a free piece of land? What stopped you from doing that? What stopped you from doing it? Nobody, because you are allowed to do it, but you will not do it. So, at the end of the day, I think that is one of the things that we need to actually address.

On the issue of education, again, I want to say, a 30% pass mark is not good enough. Now, over and above the 30%, let me tell you what the other problem is. A percentage of that 30% is a continued assessment for the entire year, which simply means you cannot be passing at about 20%. That is the reason why there is a 60% dropout in the first year in TVET colleges. That is the reason.

We are pumping in money, paying the entire year. People are going for two or three times to TVET colleges in the year. They get that money. What are they doing? Partying all weekend. They are not going to these colleges. What mechanisms
are there to monitor that they are going regularly? This is good money being wasted after that.

Another issue on Basis Education is, the Minister once said there were 3 398 schools using pit latrines and that it will be eradicated by 2025. I think we need to accelerate that process.

In terms of social development, I want to say that there are many social workers, qualified and funded by the department that are unemployed. Okay. In light of the dysfunctional state of our society, we need more social workers on the ground, safety in schools, working with them to identify learners and children at an early stage and deal with that problem.

In terms of the health, I want to say, the NFP fully supports the NHI, but we are not convinced, given the current state of health care in the country, that it is going to be successful. If we want to implement this, let us do the right thing and ensure that we are ready to implement it, otherwise it is going to be like every other state-owned company. This is the problem we are going to face.
Then we are going to say, we have failed, but in the meantime, we are not ready. As far as the NHI is concerned, it is not something we need to negotiate. We have to implement it in the interest of all South Africans to get it.

I want to also address the issue of infrastructure. It is common knowledge in South Africa that we lose 40% on goods and services. Now, look at the amount

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members. Hon members, you are making a noise.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: I am speaking about budgets, corporate governance and I am talking about all the Budget Votes. What is the problem? I am entitled to my 10 minutes and I am using it effectively. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Proceed. I will respond to them later. Hon members, may I hear the hon member on the podium, please.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: In terms of infrastructure, there is no doubt about it. That is where we can get a lot of our economic growth in the country. I think, what is very important to
ensure we get value for money ... My chairperson is there and he knows when I talk about value for money, I talk like a stuck record. We are not getting value for money. If you saw what is happening and I think that there have been a lot of allegations about Eskom and a particular person, and how they have been sabotaging Eskom and how they have been making money in between. These are some of the things I think, at some stage, we are going to have to deal with.

Also on the issue of health is something that I did not talk about. We need ... Can I be protected?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Gentleman, please.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: As far as the health care is concerned, we need to move to a preventive health care system. We cannot have our people dying at 20, 30 and 40 years old. It is not acceptable. We need to eat healthy and live healthy, but it starts with us here. We need to pass legislation to make sure that products that are produced, particularly food stuff are healthy stuff, not having a can of fizzy drink that have 90 spoons of sugar. It is not acceptable. This city, for instance, coincidently, is like the diabetes capital of the
country at this point in time. I think, we need to cut down on things like that. There is no doubt about that.

Now, I did mention earlier on, through you, Minister, the issue of procurement at local government level – what is expected and what we would like them to do in future. We want them to report on a monthly basis in the local authorities and in the database of Treasury, so people can see who these people are who are getting all these tenders. How much is value, how are they benefitting from it, are we getting value for money? These are some of the things we need to do.

Now, I want to talk about the issue of job creation in South Africa. Surely, that should be number one on our list of priorities, in term of economic growth. Our problem is just that the labour conditions are very stringent in South Africa and small and medium enterprises cannot survive. We need to have a kind of a balance, together with the unions to be able to sit down and ... I am trying to understand the logic. You must earn R4 000 a month. If you cannot get R4 000 a month, you stay at home and I am going to give you R350 a month.
So, I am saying no. That is not the way it should be. There should be a balance. There are lots and lots of work we can


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Shaik Emam, unfortunately, all your global time is exhausted.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: The NFP supports the Budgret Votes. Thank you very much.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, those who were just raising their hands, showing me the time like hon Khosa, hon Shikwambane, if you listened to me when I started, I spoke of global time. Please, don’t do that. We have gadgets here that shows us how much time a person has left. So, don’t do that.

Hon Radebe rose on a point of order when Inkosi Buthelezi was here – the point of order that is on Rule 84. I want to say the order is sustained, because here, he talks of offensive, abusive, insulting, disrespectful, unbecoming or unparliamentary language, nor gestures. As I was sitting here, the hon Inkosi continued to use the gestures that confirms
what he is said on the podium, when the hon member Shaik Emam was here. Hon Inkosi Buthelezi, please, stand up and withdraw.

Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Ngiya-drawer Sihlalo.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Ha-ah! Asi-drawi la, siya- withdrawer.


Please, withdraw.


Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Chair, I withdraw. That is what I mean.


Ubani? ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. Please, stop with the gestures, because I am watching.

Mr F D XASA: Hon Chairperson, Ministers present, hon members, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, since the budget, has a source of hope as it promotes strategic interventions for local government
challenges and emphasises the important role traditional leaders are supposed to play in governance.

The Auditor-General’s, AG, report has highlighted a number of challenges impacting municipalities and the department has a critical role to play in order to ensure implementation of audit action plans.

The provision of basic services and infrastructure maintenance are key priorities.

The ANC welcomes the establishment of results management office’s new strategy aiming to ensure project implementation and accelerate service delivery through the District Development Model, DDM.

The ANC believes that the budget vote instils hope and improves service delivery for our people. We, therefore, support this budget and hope everybody supports it. Thank you, Chair.


Bells rung for 15 seconds.


Agreed to.

Vote No 4 - Government Communications and Information System – put.

Declarations of votes:

Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chair, the IFP supports the report


USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Kwenzenjani MaMajozi? Awusekho. Awusazwakali.


Or is just the support?


Ms Z MAJOZI: Can you hear me, hon House Chairperson?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, I can hear you clearly!

Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chairperson, the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, contributes towards media diversity in
South Africa as many people in South Africa rely on small local radio stations or newspapers for access to news and information.

In our budget vote debate we raised our concerns regarding the MDDA’s lack of transparency when it comes to the community media project it funds.

We are all aware that where there is secrecy, corruption is not far behind.

Considering the fact that the values of democracy, Minister, a public list of the community project currently financed by the MDDA needs to be made available by your department.

Further, Minister, we urge you to play a greater oversight role in the conduct of the MDDA Board as the allegation of the board acting in a biased and inconsistent manner to the prejudice of deserving grant recipients is not to be taken lightly.

Over the 2022-23 financial year, the agency’s legal bills amounted to over R7 million. However, allocations of the budget for litigation are estimated at R750 000 annually.
Minister, how is it possible that this entity is able to overspend by 10 times what it can afford?

Lastly, Vuk’uzenzele newspaper cannot only be available at Government Communications and Information System, GCIS, offices and Thusong Centre, we need this newspaper to be distributed in all households, especially in the townships and rural areas as our youth need to be made aware of employment and opportunities.

Also, the MDDA cut off its funding on the Jabavu Urban News, which was thriving in White City, Soweto.

In our conclusion, we hope your implementation of the budget will take into account our concerns. Thank you.

Mr L E MOLALA: House Chair, the ANC-led democratic dispensation through our Constitution guarantees all of us the right to freedom of expression, amongst other things, lest we forget that under the National Party Rule, a culture of secrecy, disinformation, restrictions on press freedom was the order of the day. Government Communication and Information System, GCIS, continue to stay true to its mandate by providing strategic leadership and co-ordinating government
communication to ensure that members of the public are informed and have access to government programmes and policies that benefit them. To this end, the ANC supports the budget allocation of R749 million in 2023-24 as it will enhance the department’s work towards key programmes of national importance such as campaigns on gender-based violence, anticorruption in government and economic reconstruction and recovery. I thank you.

Question agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 5 - Home Affairs – put.

Question agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 6 - International Relations and Co-Operation - put.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): We pass now to Vote No 6: International Relations and Co-operation. The IFP? I pass and he is coming?

Ha-e ha-e mhlonishwa oyilungu. Yekela lapho, ubizwe ngimi. Qhubeka lapha.

Mr M HLENGWA: My listening is very good.



USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Sikukalelile isikhathi.


Declaration of vote:

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, speaking about the mission of creating social and economic justice here at home and around the world, Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi reminds that it will require constant pursuit and we can only get closer to that goal while fighting the rising tide of injustice. And therefore it is concerning that South Africa’s foreign policies is fatally flawed and riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies which if unresolved will serve to make us the laughing stock on the world’s stage where this department operates. The mainstay of greatest aspirations for a just prosperous and peaceful world is our unwavering commitment to human rights. But this commitment cannot be subjectively applied; it must be fairly applied. We cannot speak from both sides of our mouths. For example, how do we reconcile our
government’s silence when China’s human rights violations in Tibet, Taiwan and Hong Kong with our government ... [Inaudible.] ... in condemning America regarding the Cuban blockade. It was Desmond Tutu who reminded us that if you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. Therefore, South Africa’s neutrality on the Russian-Ukraine war flies in the face of this quote and observation and there is an indictment on South Africa’s current position on this war.

The IFP maintains that the escalation of tensions and violence in the Middle Eastern in so far as the Israeli-Palestine issue is concerned, must be resolved through negotiations towards the attainment of the two state solution and therefore regressive diplomacy such as downgrading the South African embassy in Israel only acts to flare up in an already volatile situation and position South Africa as an untrusted partner in the peace process. When we condemn violence, we must condemn it on both sides as we do. The IFP condemns all violence regardless of who perpetuates it. We however cannot throw the baby out with the bath water because the world’s problems are
not lenient. Therefore, the IFP supports this budget. I thank you.

Mr S N SWART: House Chair, South Africa’s purported nonaligned stance on the Russian-Ukraine war, is being met with increased scepticism following the Lady R debacle, the heightened speculation that it will invite Russian President to Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, summit in South Africa, despite the warrant of arrest that has been issued by the International Criminal Court, ICC. Therefore, this is deeply concerning to the ACDP given its possible impact on the economy and, of course, the threats to the African Growth and Opportunity Act agreement. Now, it’s very important to note what the Governor of the South African Reserve Bank has said in his bank’s financial stability review that this foreign policy stance carries the risk of secondary economic sanctions. Capital markets are already starting to behave as if secondary sanctions are going to be imposed. The rand is depreciated to all-time lows and government bonds have risen across all markets and maturities.

Secondary sanctions are applied to those countries that transact with the country subject to primary such sanctions. In this case Russia. Given this own goal Ministers have now
been sent to explain South Africa’s foreign policy position to the Group 7 countries and one trust that this will not be too little, too late. I thank you.

Mr T S MPANZA: House Chairperson, I declare my full support and enthusiasm for the Budget Vote today as we embark on a path of deliberate action to make South Africa a formidable force in our region, our continent, the global south, and the world at large. This declaration is a statement to the excellent work done by the department in representing us on a various international platforms providing support to South Africans facing challenges abroad and communicating our foreign policy with accuracy and precision. It is imperative that we maintain this robust stance on foreign policy, grounding it in the principles espoused by our Freedom Charter. There must be peace and friendship.

We must embrace the opportunities presented by the Brics association and encourage our participation in its various councils, Think Tank and civil forums. This involvement will boost tourism, promote economic growth and development and strengthen our position in the international arena. We must also recognise the significance of the African Continental Free Trade area enable free flow of goods services across the
continent, generating economic growth, and accelerating infrastructure development. As such, we must assert Africa to trade with itself first and foremost and prosper its people by promoting co-operation and strengthening our economic diplomacy with African countries.

Furthermore, we must remain committed to advancing gender equality and empowerment of women and youth, as demonstrated by our participation in the United Nations Commission on the status of women. In conclusion, I declare my earnest support for this budget. May it serve as a catalyst for the continued growth, prosperity and peace for South Africa and the world over. Thank you very much, House Chairperson. The ANC supports this Budget Vote.

Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting and Economic Freedom Fighters abstaining).

Vote No 7 - National School of Government – put.


Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: House Chair, my hand was up, I think there’s a mistake there because we are abstaining from this Vote. We didn’t indicate objection, we are abstaining.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I think that that must be rectified because I may make the same mistake. I’ve been told that the EFF is objecting to all of them, please. I’ll rectify that but they must get the correct message. Thank you very much.

Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting and Economic Freedom Fighters abstaining).

Vote No 8 - National Treasury – put.


Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 9 - Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation – put.


Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, let me deviate from what we have been doing and do something else before we break for lunch. Hon members, on 30 May 2023, during the debate on Vote 2, Parliament, hon B A Radebe, Member of Parliament, MP, raised the point of order, contending that hon H O Mkhaliphi, MP had made an unsubstantiated allegation that the Speaker of the National Assembly had ordered sexual harassment and violence on Members of Parliament and contended that such remarks reflected upon the integrity of the Speaker. At the time I undertook to consult the Hansard and revert to the House with a consider ruling.

In her remarks, Hansard recorded hon Mkhaliphi as having said the following: “We want to reiterate that we condemn the poor violence and barbaric behaviour, including sexual harassment that continues to characterise Parliament ordered by the Speaker. The violence inflicted on Members of Parliament for peaceful protest to protect an incompetent and useless President defies the democratic principle and value of Parliament.” Rule 85, hon members, states that no member may impute improper motives to any other member or cast personal reflections upon a member’s integrity or dignity, or verbally abuse a member in any other way without bringing a separate
substantive motion comprising a clearly formulated and properly substantiated charge to the attention of the House.

The remarks by hon Mkhaliphi that the Speaker ordered violence and sexual harassment on Members of Parliament cast aspersions on the character of the Speaker, and implied that she acted in a manner contrary to her duty as the custodian of the rights and privileges of the House and its members ... [Interjections.] ... Hon Khoza, please, I’m reading a ruling here. I don’t want to include you in it. The remarks were not only intended to be accusative, but also to cast aspersions on the Speaker in carrying out her duty of protecting the dignity of all members, and to act with fairness and impartiality as prescribed by the Rules of the Assembly and the dictates of her oath of office.

Hon Mkhaliphi, I consequently order you to withdraw your remarks that the Speaker ordered violence and barbaric behaviour, including sexual harassment.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Thanks, House Chair. I will not withdraw because it’s true. We even reported the Speaker in the international platform that we as Members of Parliament we are sexually harassed in this Parliament. I’m not withdrawing.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mkhaliphi, if you are not withdrawing, you must leave the House and you will not return to the House.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: There’s no problem, we stand by the truth. We are abused in this House by the Speaker ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mkhaliphi, please leave the House. Please, leave the House and you are not returning after lunch for the whole day. You are not coming back, let me put it very clear. Hon members, we will now break for lunch until 14:00. The bells will be rung for resumption of business. Business is now suspended. Thank you very much.

The member, having disregarded the authority of the Chair, was ordered to withdraw from the Chamber for the remainder of the day’s sitting.

The member thereupon withdrew from the Chamber.


Business suspended at 13:00.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, I now put Vote No 10 – Public Enterprises.

Order, hon members!


Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chairperson, can I be recognised?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Hendricks why do you want to be recognised?

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chairperson, on Vote No 9, I was supposed to make a declaration and then I was suddenly removed from the platform. So, I am not sure whether I was called to make a declaration on Vote No 9. I would like to request that you consider me to make that declaration on Vote No 9.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member we have since then moved on. That Vote has been concluded. I am sure you will find other Votes where you can use your allocated time to make a declaration. Unfortunately, we have moved on.

I recognise the EFF, on Vote No 10.
Vote No 10 – Public Enterprises – put.


Declarations of vote:

Ms N MHLONGO: Greetings to the president and commander in chief of the EFF, officials, commissars and fighters. We stand here to reject this corrupt budget and we call upon all rational Members of Parliament, to reject this proposed budget that will only serve to advance the privatisation of SA Airways, SAA, Denel, Transnet and all other strategic state- owned entities, SOEs. Yesterday, Denel suspended an exiled director-general, DG, of private enterprises. Mr Thlakudi came to the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises to present his protected disclosure.

While we were not surprised, by the revelations because we know that that is how Mr Gordhan operates. We had earlier warned the DG when he was singing for his supper and advocating for the privatisation of Transnet, Denel and state- owned airline companies like SAA and SA Express that Mr Gordhan will use him and throw him under the bus. It is exactly what happened.

The legacy of Mr Gordhan in all SOEs he was deployed to is mismanagement, incompetence and blatant corruption.
The dilemma Eskom finds itself in today, Mr Jamnandus must take full responsibility for the collapse of these SOEs, because his deployments are a synonym of failure. However, in summary this is what Mr Thlakudi presented. That Mr Gordhan is corrupt, he has turned the Department of Public Enterprises into his little kingdom where he rewards mediocrity because they are loyal to him. It is not us, but it is contained in the protected disclosure although we know that this is true.

The Takatso Consortium deal to privatise SAA initiated by Mr Gordhan is a corrupt deal. Mr Gordhan has lied to the kangaroo court led by Minister Lamola that dismissed Mr Thlakudi on the 2nd of June 2023, but he has not received a letter of dismissal even today. The vacancy rate of 41,1% at senior management staff is a deliberate sabotage of the department and the toxic environment created by a person with a God complex, but is incompetent. The failure to maintain good audits status at the Department of Public enterprises and failure to submit financial statements for audit is a deliberate agenda for privatisation. The dismissed DG also said the business rescue process of SAA which is going to cost more than R200 million legal and valuation advisors is fraud.
The state of relay race of load shedding where one area get power switched on and the other goes off, is a disgrace to say the list. Most South Africans in the exasperations have branded themselves by saying “You know that you are a South African when you cannot take three take turns using electricity in our communities.” How shameful that citizens have arrived at such an alarming state of despondency. While Mr Jamnandus who has portrait himself as God is pursuing selfish ventures of self-enrichment at the expense of our people.

Mr Gordhan, a reasonable leader still in touch with his conscience and sober judgement of failure would have reasonably done the honourable thing by resigning by now. We reject this Vote. Thank you very much.

Mr K E MAGAXA: Hon House Chairperson, although this Appropriation Bill significantly eliminated transfers to the state-owned companies in the current financial year, the ANC supports it because Budget Vote 10 improves the monitoring and oversight capabilities of the Department of Public Enterprises to accelerate restructuring reforms and turnaround plans aimed at returning our state-owned companies to financially sound
and operationally efficient company reforms which act as the backbone of the developmental state.

Some of the restructuring reforms geared towards enabling our state-owned companies to assume a developmental state focused agenda at this Appropriation Bill supporting through the Shareholder Management Bill aimed at standardising legislative framework across state-owned companies. The state-owned holding companies aimed at simplifying the oversight model by increasing centralisation of the ownership function. I thank you.

[Bells rang for five minutes]

Division demanded.


The House divided.


The House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick announced that, the Speaker had determined that, in accordance with the Rules, a manual voting procedure would be used and that the Whips would conduct a headcount of members in the Chamber and on the virtual platform for the purpose of ascertaining quorum and voting.
A quorum being present in terms of Rule 98(1), voting commenced.

Ayes – 203: (ANC – 199; Good – 2; NFP – 1; Al Jama-ah -1).


Noes – 129: (DA - 73; EFF - 33; IFP – 9; FF Plus - 10; ACDP – 3; UDM – 1).

Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.


Vote No 11 – Public Service and Administration – put.

Vote No 11 – Public Service and Administration – agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Economic Freedom Fighters and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 12 – Public Service Commission – put


Vote No 12 – Public Service Commission – agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Vote No 13 – Public Works and Infrastructure – put.


Declarations of vote:

Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chair, the ACDP recently repeated that the Department of Public Works is the largest property owner in the country and yet produces some of the poorest outcomes in this area, particularly when compared to the private sector. It could leverage its asset base so as to be less financially dependent on the taxpayer. The challenges in this department are many, from the Telkom towers procurement process to the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, investigation into corruption in Jozini on the R85,7 million jersey barrier wall tender to the ... [Inaudible.] ... asset register debacle from 2012 to date, PMT has been unable to fully develop and implement the ... [Inaudible.] ... asset register programme, a requirement of the Auditor-General. This department cannot function effectively without knowing exactly what it owns as this malfeasance opens the door for corruption and the hijacking of government buildings.

The failures of this department is highlighted by the recent switching off of electricity at a school in Richmond in the Northern Cape on the day that matriculant students were to write their exams in freezing weather due to nonpayment of
utilities by Public Works after the ACDP intervention, electricity was restored. South Africa deserves better; the ACDP is that better. The ACDP does not support this Budget Vote. Thank you.

Ms L N MJOBO: Thank you Chairperson for the opportunity, the ANC supports the Appropriation Bill for the Budget Vote 13 on Public Works and Infrastructure. Infrastructure development and job creation are critical to the economic reconstruction and recovery plan. The programmes of the Department of Public Works are critical for infrastructure development and job creation through infrastructure SA and the Expanded Public Works Programme. These programmes are geared towards skilling our people and providing job opportunities to marginalised communities. The implementation of programmes is the key driver of infrastructure development and job creation. The opposition is opposing this Appropriation Bill and Budget Vote and are telling the people of the Republic of South Africa that they do not want infrastructure development and job creation. Thank you, Chairperson.

Division demanded.


[Bell rang for 15 seconds]
The House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick announced that, the Speaker had determined that, in accordance with the Rules, a manual voting procedure would be used and that the whips would conduct a headcount of members in the Chamber and on the virtual platform for the purpose of ascertaining quorum and voting.

A quorum being present in terms of Rule 98(1), voting commenced.

AYES – 212: (ANC – 199; IFP – 9; Good – 2; NFP – 1; Al Jama-ah – 1).

NOES – 116: (DA - 73; EFF - 30; FF Plus - 10; ACDP – 2; UDM – 1).

Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.


Vote No 13 – Public Works And Infrastructure


Vote No 14 – Statistics SA – put.
Vote No 14 – Statistics SA – agreed to (African Christian Democratic Party and Freedom Front Plus dissenting and Economic Freedom Fighters abstaining).

Vote No 15 – Traditional Affairs – put.


Vote No 15 – Traditional Affairs – agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 16 – Basic Education – put.


Declarations of vote:
Mr B B NODADA: House Chairperson, the ANC-led government is completely failing the children of this country. Listening to Minister Motshekga, you can hear that her department has no plan to turn the situation around to save this generation of children. Eight out of 10 children cannot read for meaning — doomed before they even begin, likely confined to a lifetime of poverty and unemployment.

Children are dying in pit toilets because the ANC has turned schools to graveyards. Cadres eat through nutrition tenders while children starve. Many matrics are destined for
unemployment because the ANC prioritises quantity over quality in matric results. Now they are hellbent on capturing schools by centralising power into the hands of politicians away from parents and communities that know what is best for their children through the Basic Education Laws Amendment Bill.

Minister Motshekga requests we start talking about high level things in education and stop talking about toilets, yet she can’t even do the basics. Unfortunately, we cannot stop talking about toilets, Minister, because the ANC has turned this country into one big toilet.

House Chairperson, the DA cannot support this budget that has not allocated even one cent to reading for meaning or catch up plans. Until such a credible reading for meaning and catchup plan is presented with timelines, we will be doing an injustice to millions of children who depend on quality education to get out of poverty.

We can’t support a budget that is not eradicating pit toilets, building more quality schools, feeding children twice a day or thoroughly budgeting for Early childhood development, ECD. Fellow South Africans, there is however a lifeline out of the ANC mess. In 2024 vote for DA-led government that provides
education and a pathway out of poverty and unemployment. As is in the western Cape, double the number of learners can read for meaning because we invest R1,2 billion to catch up on learning losses. A government build schools in 65 days, a government that feeds children twice a day, where there is quality teaching and quality outcomes, and where learners are not at risk of dying in pit toilets because we have eradicated them in schools. I thank you, House Chairperson.

Ms B P MBINQO-GIGABA: House Chair, the ANC is supporting Budget Vote 16. Education is a societal duty, and the work of the department is geared to enhance our collective effort of growing and developing our children and youth. Basic education is at the cornerstone of the transformation of our country for equity and justice.

It is through education that we empower all South Africans to be their own liberators. The department has allocated funds to various projects which seek to address the infrastructure backlog in the sector to improve teacher development. Through this budget, learners will be provided with nutrition meals and transport. We are confident that through the enhancement of early learning and the advancement of the Three Stream
Model, our children will grow to realise their dreams. Thank you very much, House Chair.

Division demanded.


The House divided.


[Take in from minutes.]

Question agreed to.

Vote accordingly agreed to.


Vote No 17 – Higher Education and Training – put.


Declarations of vote:
Mr M SHIKWAMBANA: House Chair, greetings to the commander in chief, deputy president and national of the EFF, commissars and fighters. We are actually voting against this budget. As things stand, it is difficult as it has been for the youth and young people of South Africa to access the doors of higher education. Every beginning of the year prospective and returning students who come from highly disadvantaged conditions are subjected to paying registration fees despite
the fact that they do qualify academically, and they come from poor families. As if that is not enough, they will then be required to pay accommodation fees before they access the gates of the institutions of higher learning.

Furthermore, they will be forced to pay tuition fees before they can get their academic results or even get a degree, diploma or certificate. These young people, even after graduating, they still go to street to join the majority of youth and young people who are sitting at home, hopeless, miserable and have already given up in life since they are not working and also not even attending any formal education.

Minister Blade, I don’t know why you are still the Minister. I mean, it’s 20 years now in that Ministry, yet you have nothing outside corruption that you can honestly show the people of South Africa. We have nothing, but we need government that has the political will to deliver free quality and well-resourced education, and that can only come from an EFF-led government.

Minister Blade, National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, is not a solution to the question of free education. I stand here to the House what could be the solution to free quality education. We need to establish what we call educational tax,
whereby all public servants, you Members of Parliament, councillors, people who do business with government, people who do business with universities, people who work in government departments and people who are always tendering in the government must pay at least 3% educational tax, and that money must be directed to educational coffers.

Young people of South Africa, indeed, 2024 is our 1994. For us to go and change the situation we are faced with as young people, we need to take it upon ourselves. Go out and vote in numbers. We vote the corrupt ANC and the racists out, and we put the EFF government because it’s the only organisation that can deliver us.

As I’m about to crocodile, Minister Blade, up to date you have never accounted for the amount of more than R5 billion which is missing in the Skills Fund, and you are seating there pretending to be working for the young people of South Africa and students in general. As EFF we stand to say we reject this budget because it is not resolving issues of South Africa’s young people and students. Thank you very much.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Order! Hon members, order! May I request that when you know
you must make a declaration ... [Interjections.] ... Hon members at the back, can you keep quiet please. When you know you must make a declaration make your way to the waiting chair on my left so that we save time. The UDM?

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, the United Democratic Movement does not support this Budget Vote. Minister Blade Nzimande will recall that during budget votes in 2022, the UDM called for an urgent sustainable solution to the issue of the funding of the missing middle students. However, as resourced as the department is there is still no tangible progress on this matter.

Thousands of students at higher education institutions across the country are facing financial exclusions and fee blocks due to the long standing funding crises. This prevents students from being able to continue their qualifications or even being able to graduate at the end of the process.

All that the department does is altering empty promises to find a long-term solution to this problem while thousands of helpless students are being denied an opportunity to study. Not only that, but even funded students also have to wait for
several months during the academic year to receive their meals and book allowances.

Each year students from various institutions from around the country — recently you saw what happened at Cape Peninsula University of Technology, CPUT — embark on protests concerning the distribution of allowances and other factors that are related to NSFAS. Unfortunately, many NSFAS beneficiaries come from disadvantaged households and are therefore subjected to write exams on empty stomachs without material, and yet they are expected to meet the 55% pass rate.

The scheme is also characterised by incompetence and maladministration, for an example, an SPU report reveal that R5,1 billion has been paid out to just over 40 000 non- qualifying students across the different tertiary institutions.


Andiqinisekanga ukuba lo myinge ubekiweyo ujolise kuthi, mzi ontsundu kuba nam ngoku ndisebenza apha ePalamente ixabiso lezifundo kwezi yunivesithi zeli lizwe lingaphaya kwamandla endinawo. Mhlawumbi kufuneka siyicacise ngokuphandle ukuba lo myinge ujolise koobani na kuba...

...most black parents cannot afford higher education institution fees in this country, full stop.

Ms J S MANANISO: House Chairperson, even in the midst of budget constrains the ANC-led government has ensured that education remains its apex priority. Education is central to the development of the country. The budget allocated of R132 billion will go towards supporting students from poor working-class families through NSFAS funding. A total of
1,1 million students from Technical Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges and universities will be funded to access post school education and training.

Hon House Chair, the allocation for skills development is aimed at addressing the triple challenges of poverty, inequality and unemployment. Young people who are not in education or employment training will access education and training through artisan development, learnerships, skills development programmes and work integrated learning for those who need workplace learning to complete their qualifications and internship. As the ANC we support this budget. Thank you, House Chair.
Question agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party and United Democratic Movement dissenting).

Vote No 18 – Health – put.


Declarations of vote:
Ms M O CLARKE: Thank you, Chairperson. Over the past weekend, the Health Portfolio Committee conducted oversight visits to hospitals in the Eastern Cape province, for the second time in six months. These hospitals face similar challenges to all those in any of the other provinces in our country, except for the Western Cape. They operate in despairing environment, characterised by shortages of nurses, clinicians, medicine, and medical supplies, as well as food shortages.

Surgeons lack the necessary equipment to perform critical surgeries and patients must bring their own linen due to inadequate supplies. None of these hospitals comply to the ideal clinic standards advanced in the National Health Insurance Bill. Year-after-year, health care budgets are slashed, while medical treatment costs rise.
Accruals and medical legal claims further strain the budget, leaving hospitals with less than 50% operational expenses. The recent incident at Mahikeng Provincial Hospital, where new- borns were placed in cardboard boxes due to lack of incubators, exposes the ANC-led government’s disregard for human life. Patients suffered due to the ANC’s failure to address the systemic failures in our health care system caused by mismanagement, fraud, corruption and cadre deployment.

The severe shortages of nurses pose a significant risk to South African health care system. Shockingly the Department of Health spent R30 million on just 44 posts for the NHI, despite there being staffing shortages in the health care system. The private sector has repeatedly offered to train nursing staff, but the government has not made the necessary minor legislative changes impeding on improvements on patient care.

Given these circumstances, the DA cannot support this budget. The ANC must prioritise patient care over self-serving interests and address these failures within our health care system. I thank you.

Ms A GELA: Thank you, House Chair. The ANC stands to affirm its support for Budget Vote 18 on Health. The department has
demonstrated the resilience of our health care system and is having a plan to continuously improve public health care for all. The department has undertaken programmes to prepare for the National Health Insurance, which will transform our health system to benefit all South Africans.

The Budget Vote supports the development of hospitals and clinics, which will contribute to increasing access to undeveloped areas and rural locations. Health care is a human right and, through primary health care and preventative measure, we can have a healthy and a productive nation. To have a sustainable health care system, it is a critical to have adequate healthy human capabilities. The department will continue training health practitioners and educating young people through the Nelson Mandela Fidel Castro Medical Scholarship initiative. As the ANC, we fully support Budget Vote 18. Thank you very much, Chairperson.

Objections noted.


Division demanded.


The House divided.
[Bells rung for 15 seconds]


Question put.

Voting on Vote 18:




Vote 18 is agreed to.

Vote 19 – Social Development – put.


Declarations of vote:
Ms B S MASANGO: Thank you, Chairperson. The DA makes this declaration between the Child Protection Week and Youth Day. These two sectors of our society have been hit the hardest by social ills that have been exacerbated by the ANC-led government’s decades of corruption. To put this into perspective, more than a third of South Africa’s children live below the food poverty line.

Further,30% of boys and 25% of girls under the age of five are stunted. This means that they cannot reach their full growth and development potential because of the irreversible physical
and cognitive damage caused by persistent lack of proper nutrition. In 2021, 25,4% of young people between the ages of
18 and 24, in Quintal 1 schools, attended secondary schools, which means their grants had been stopped and they were not financially supported before they wrote their matric. This is what the DA social development policy aims to correct.

The DA will pack the Child Support Grant at the official food poverty line. We will also extend the Child Support Grant to include Learners who are still attending school, over the age of 18, to ensure that they have financial stability until they complete their matric exams. We will extend the Child Support Grants to cover pregnant mothers so that they can have better access to the nutritious food their baby needs to get the best start in life. When will this happen? You ask! The answer is 2024, when the DA rules this country.

Mr B N HERRON: Thank you, House Chair. Following the Covid-19 pandemic, this country, like many others around the world, experienced economic devastation with hundreds of thousands of jobs lost. In response to this, we developed and initiated the SRD Grant that, while not flawless, saved many lives and proved that the state does have the potential to finance
large-scale poverty relief and social support.
With this in mind, it is important to note that the last meaningful poverty index or data we have, is pre-pandemic and pre-Eskom’s current crisis. Thus, we can expect the level of poverty to have risen substantially. Taking all this into account, the GOOD party will continue to advocate the need for a basic income grant and what it would bring to our country.
This initiative is financially beneficial to the economy and would elevate a large number of our people from above the poverty line.

Every one of these citizens would now be kind of much stronger contributor to the South African economy and ultimately - as it has been seen in other parts of the world - jobs will be created. While the cost and wide scale of this initiative makes such some people hesitant to believe it could be a reality or feasible, it is important to realise that we have already studied its feasibility. The real question is not whether we can afford to do it; but rather whether we can afford not to.

Putting the money into the hands of our citizens satisfies their right to constitutional social support and dignity. This grant would be the most impactful form of assistance ever
offered to our systems by the state, and that shouldn’t be seen as daunting, but rather a goal to strive for. Thank you.

Ms A S HLONGO: Thank you, House Chairperson. The ANC supports Vote 19 on Social Development. Social protection is a fundamental component of our social economic transformation. It advances social development through empowering people to protect their well-being and to undertake developmental opportunities for their livelihoods. Our social grant system cushions the impact of inequality and poverty to that ensure no South Africans live with a hungry stomach.

The increasing cost of living and the disaster we experience require this department to provide a safety net. This budget supports the continuation of the Social Relief of Distressed Grant. We believe a progressive social security system should cover all vulnerable persons, and this budget vote seeks to do so. Working with various social partners, the department will continue to contribute in building the South Africa that we want. We support the budget. Thanks Chair.

Objections noted.


Division demanded.
[Bells rung for 15 seconds]


Question put.

Voting on Vote 19:




Vote 19 is agreed to.

Vote No 20 – Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities – put and agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus dissenting).

Vote No 21 – Civilian Secretariat for the Police Service – put and agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 22 – Correctional Services – put and agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 23 – Defence – put.
Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr S J F MARAIS: Hon Chair, insufficient funds are allocated to rebuild the requisition that the Defence Force defend South Africa from current and future threats. That 23 offers little value for money and will not stop the destruction of what is left of our defence capabilities. The National Treasury does not trust the Minister and the department to make the right political choices and spending on the right priorities.

It is obvious that the political and managerial world is absent. The Minister made many promises but has failed to put that into actions or ... [Inaudible.] ... her criticism about having too many generals. Given the financial constraints, the following are examples of what remain inconceivable. One, the cost of employees remains 70% of budget with little left to sustain our prime mission equipment, both civilian and uniformed staff should have been reduced. Two, senior staff remain on suspension at full pay without being charged, for example, the deputy surgeon-general for the last three years.

Three, spending on staff benefits and protection services. Four, ... [Inaudible.] ... for promotion and armed forces days should be limited. Five, spending R1,5 billion on domestic and international travel. Six, the retention of all 44 defence ...
[Inaudible.] ... officers even the wasteful Cuban operation to

... [Inaudible.] ... should have been terminated long time ago. The Defence Force is also politically abused by the ANC that demonstrate their alignment with Russia despite the economic consequences at the expense of the GDP and the Defence Force.

If nothing was loaded onto the Lady-R, why is the President refusing to make available the terms of reference and results of his panels. This appears to be an unequivocal admission of guilt in advance. Hiding the findings will only further damage our economic interests and integrity and will support the perceptions of an ANC cover up. I thank you.

Ms P A PHETLHE: Hon Chair, as a declaration let it be known that the ANC fully supports the Budget Vote for the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. We acknowledge the vital role that the National Defence Force plays in protecting our sovereignty, promoting peace, security and stability in our country and on the continent. We further recognise the commitment of our soldiers in times of crisis as demonstrated during the July 2021 civil unrest and during the COVID-19 pandemic.
We further call for the increase in budget allocation to empower the SA National Defence Force to continue serving our country and responding to the needs of our people, referring to South Africans. We urge the department to combat noncompliance, maladministration, fraud and corruption swiftly including addressing the issues of gender-based violence in the Defence Force. It is essential that Military and Defence sectors are sufficiently funded given the ongoing global economic challenges.

We commend the hon Minister and the department on their work in safeguarding our national interest, including border safeguarding, maritime, security, air spaces and support to the SA Police Service. We urge that investments be made in new technologies and systems that strengthen the performance of our Defence Force in line with the internationally recognised standards. We also acknowledge the plight of Military Veterans and their dependents and emphasise the need to ensure that they receive the benefits they are entitled to and deserve. We call for a thorough investigation into the plight of self- defence in its members and a policy that addressed their contribution and sacrifice.
Additionally, we recognise the valuable weapon of the military health department in providing care to soldiers and their families, as well as ex-combatants and their families. We call for their allocation of sufficient resources to ensure its continued success. Therefore, as the ANC we wholeheartedly support this Budget Vote for the Department of Defence and Military Veterans as they aim to build a united, nonsexist, nonracial and a prosperous South Africa including those who always reject. Thank you.

Division demanded.


The House divided.


Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.


Vote No 24 – Independent Police Investigative Directorate – put and agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom
Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 25 – Justice and Constitutional Development – put.


Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Freedom Front Plus and African National Congress.

Declarations of vote (s):
Mr F J MULDER: Hon House Chair, the department failed to meet its constitutional mandate due to poor governance, state capture and corruption. Our courts are understaffed and overwhelmed. Private prosecution is more commonly used than ever before as South Africans must determine their own destiny where the states failed with ... [Inaudible.] ... tax money.
The Freedom Front Plus will not support this Vote. Thank you, House Chair.

Ms W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: One of Department of Justice and Constitutional Development’s primary aims is to ensure an accessible justice system that promotes the constitutional values and to provide transparent, responsive and accountable justice service. This Budget Vote speaks directly to that.
Having passed the three acts to curb gender-based violence, we
welcome the new directives in terms of the Domestic Violence Amendment Acts, which impose stricter duties on office managers, supervisors and clerks of the court when dealing with cases of domestic violence. This Vote contributes to the running of the Thuthuzela Care Centres, which are a critical tool in government integrated strategy to combat sexual violence.

Thuthuzela Care Centres, TCCs, have been increased from 55 to
62. We note that the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA’s, report that is exceeded its target for the conviction of sexual offences. Much work is being done on the deoxyribonucleic acid, DNA, backlog project despite the many challenges and appears to be paying dividends, this is welcomed. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Thank you, House Chair.

Question agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 26 – Military Veterans – put.
Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 27 – Office of the Chief Justice – put.


Agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).

Vote No 28 – Police – put.


Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party, and African National Congress.

Declarations of vote:
Mr A G WHITFIELD: House Chairperson, allow me to first express my sincere condolences to the ANC on the untimely passing of the Chairperson of this committee, hon Tina Joemat-Pettersson. May her soul rest in peace. Now, House Chair in 2019, National Treasury issued an instruction that the SA Police Service, SAPS, must cut its budget by R5 billion in 2020-21,
R6,5 billion in 2021-22 and R7,8 billion in 2022-23. That’s nearly R20 billion in just three years to this critical
service delivery portfolio. Coronavirus disease, Covid-19, stalled the cuts in 2020-21, which have now been kicked down the road to this budget for 2023-24, where SAPS faces a budget cut of over R5 billion.

The DA warned then that SAPS would lose personnel and that they could hardly afford to lose and that we would lose the war on crime. Well, we have lost approximately 20 000 SAPS members since 2019, and crime is skyrocketing across the country. South Africans are less safe and feel less safe today than ever before. It is not clear from the shrinking budget how SAPS will sustainably employ the new trainees we are always hearing about. Perhaps this is just another unfunded promise.

South Africans don’t need promises, they need plans backed by a budget, which leads to decisive action against violent criminals so that we can all feel safe in our homes again, South Africans are dying. They are being raped, assaulted and robbed while the ANC cuts the very budget meant to keep it themself. Defunding the police won’t keep South Africans safe. The DA does not support this budget.

Dr P J GROENEWALD: Voorsitter, verlede week het Suid-Afrika ’n bloedige week gehad, wat plaasmoorde in Suid-Afrika betref. In een week is daar dieselfde hoeveelheid boere op hulle plase vermoor, as die hele eerste kwartaal of drie maand van hierdie jaar of die vierde kwartaal van die polisie se statistiek, soos aangedui, in terme van agt plaasmoorde.

Dit moet baie duidelik gestel word dat, wat plaasmoorde betref, daar te maklik gesê word dat dit maar net gewone misdadigheid is. Dit is nie gewone misdadigheid, as slagoffers van plaasmoorde aan die brand gesteek word, terwyl hulle nog lewe nie. Vir te lank word daar geskuil agter die verskoing dat plaasmoorde maar net gewone misdadigheid is. Dit is nie gewone misdadigheid, as aanvallers met aanvalsgewere soos AK47’s opdaag en dan die boere vermoor nie.

Ek wil dit vandag baie duidelik sê dat die landbougemeenskap onder beleg is. Statistiek van die afgelope vier jaar wys dat daar een moord vir elke agt aanvalle is. Dit beteken dat, as die landbou nie sy eie veiligheidsmaatreëls daar stel nie, dan sou die moordsyfer baie hoër gewees het.

Daarom doen ek ’n beroep spesifiek op die Minister dat aanvalle baie deeglik ondersoek moet word, want ek beskou dit
as deel van georganiseerde misdaad. Daarom moet dit ’n prioriteit wees wat betref die werk van die polisie.

It is no use we say it is normal criminality. If we look at the rural safety strategy from the police, in theory, it is a good strategy, but in practice, they do not comply with what they say in the plan.

Therefore, I want to say, if there is not swift action from the police, you must not be surprised if people start taking the law in their own hands.


Ek sal nie die mense kan verkwalik as hulle reg in eie hande begin neem, om hulle teen hierdie moordadige aanvalle op ons boere te beskerm nie. Baie dankie.

Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson, the ACDP again offers its condolences to the ANC and the family of the late hon Tina Joemat-Pettersson. There can be no doubt. However, that most South Africans do not feel safe either when out in public places or in their homes. This is exacerbated by the fact that property related crimes have increased by some 7,2%. The
latest quarterly crime statistics released by the police further corroborates the view that the majority of South Africans do not feel safe with the murder rate increasing by
206 cases standing at some 6 289 cases. Put another way, there were more murders in three months in South Africa than six months in the Russia-Ukraine war. Attempted murder also showed an increase, with police Minister Bheki Cele reporting that contact crime in South Africa increased by some 6 299 cases under the same period.

While there was a slight decrease in sexual assault with the reported rape cases down by 2,8%, South Africa still has one of the highest, if not the highest rape rate in the world, with some 66 196 incidents per 100 000 people. According to a survey conducted by the South African Medical Research Council, approximately one in four men surveyed admitted to committing rape in South Africa. This is an indication of the scale of the war against our women, children and families in South Africa. Over the years, the budget given to the Police Department has not resulted in a decrease in crime. Hence the ACDP will not support this Budget Vote. I thank you.

Ms N P PEACOCK: House Chair, let me also take this opportunity as a portfolio committee member to lower our banner in passing
of Comrade hon Tina Joemat-Pettersson. Her contribution, which was positively and constructively a good thing to the committee will dearly be missed. We would like to send our condolences to the comrades and friends as well as the broader family and the entire family of the ANC. Let me take this opportunity to start by saying that the ANC supports the Budget Vote 28 because it contributes to the building of safer communities as required by the National Development Plan. The third quarter crime figure shows that while there are increasing contact crimes such as murder, assaults and robberies, there is an improvement in crime detected because of police action.

The decrease in some crimes attribute to increased police visibility through patrols, stop and search operations, vehicle checkpoints and roadblocks. It has been reported that more patrols vans and high-power vehicles have been ordered to supplement the visible policing and specialised units such as high patrols, flying squad to respond effectively to crime.
The new fleet of police vehicle will bring a better police visibility and empower police to be more effective in fighting crime. We welcome the work done by the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, in ensuring that those who
kill police officers are brought to book. The ANC supports this Vote. I thank you.

Division demanded.


The House divided.


AYES – 224: (ANC – 209; IFP – 11; Good – 2; NFP – 1; Al Jama-

ah -1).


NOES – 122: (DA - 80; EFF - 27; FF Plus - 10; ACDP – 4; UDM - 1).

Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.


Vote No 29 – Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development – put.

Declarations of vote:


Ms T BREEDT: House Chair, the draft regulations published by the Department of Water and Sanitation that will determine
access to water based on skin colour will have a catastrophic impact on food security in the agricultural sector in South Africa.


Suid-Afrika se landbousektor neem sowat 60% van die land se jaarlikse watergebruik en dit is duidelik dat hierdie sektor geteiken word met die nuutste regulasies. Hierdie regulasies is niks anders as grondonteiening sonder vergoeding nie.

Rasbeperkings op water kan nie as ’n teenvoeter vir die ANC se gevaalde restitusieprogram gebruik word nie. Mens kan nie deur wetgewing grootskaalse swart deelname aan landbou bewerkstellig nie.

Die land het bykans nie meer krag nie, water vir gewone gebruik is reeds ’n krisis en nou is die regering besig met planne om ’n kosproduksie te vernietig.

Suid-Afrika staan nie meer op die rand van ’n afgrond nie; ons is besig om oor die afgrond te tuimel en hierdie regulasies gaan vir Suid-Afrika net vinniger grond toe laat val.
Minister, ek pleit vandag by u vir die boere van ons land, vir voedselsekuriteit in ons land, vir elke mens wat moet eet om te leef. Praat met die eweknie in die Departement van Water en Sanitasie. Laat hulle die katastrofiese impak van die regulasies besef. Bring hul tot beter insig, dat vir Suid- Afrika en sy toekoms hierdie regulasies nie sal deug nie. Ek dank u.

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, there was an imbizo in Paarl Drakenstein recently by the President and many farmworkers wanted an opportunity to bring their plight to the attention of the President but never got a chance to do so.
These are dwellers from Nantes who, after living there for 50 years, were evicted. Their electricity and water have been cut off in spite of a court order. They are still on a verge of dying from thirst. There is no electricity and no services.
The President didn’t hear the message, I hope he listens to it now.

I took the previous Deputy President to District six, and I hope the current Deputy President will carry out the promise to restore restitution in District six.
In 2002 I got an award as one of the pioneers of internet in South Africa for creating next generation jobs and new revenue streams. Al Jama-ah and I hope to inspire young aspirant farmers, men and women, to take the agricultural sector into the next decade creating revenue streams that will boost the fiscus, making South Africa shine as a country with full employment and poverty free in terms of international indexes. Al Jama-ah embraces technology and Industry 4.0 — hon House Chair, you must write it down — 4.0 to support industry with jobs and skills. Our young people must have capabilities fit for the future, which is provided by Industry 4.0 related jobs, tech-centred business startups, and taking on managerial and leadership roles in exploiting the full range of benefits from Industry 4.0.

In manufacturing the public sector and corporate there are exciting innovations on stream related areas, remember the word “stream” and that also eventually leads to having live projects and interactive engagement with those who want to learn and start enterprises around some of these technologies. The stream seems to have left out agriculture. Al Jama-ah is going to push in the City of Johannesburg, as part of a collective of eight political parties, to take the
agricultural revenue stream and to create next generation jobs to a level never dreamt of before.

After engaging an expert from London, Prof Carness, Johannesburg Metro streams must not only reach every farm in South Africa, but the streams must spread to every country in Africa. What happens in Johannesburg impacts on the whole continent. You remember in school when they said, when France sneezes Europe catches a cold. Similarly, when Johannesburg is returned to our iconic city, it will not benefit the residents of Johannesburg only but also South Africa and the whole of Africa. So, Al Jama-ah has an important role to make sure that the City of Johannesburg is returned to an iconic city.

We ask all hon members to support this. Destabilising Johannesburg is part of the campaign for a return to white corporate rule using sometimes corporate skirts in black because many trousers in black are already captured.
Destabilising Johannesburg is holding back the united states of Africa. The eight coalition parties in the City of Johannesburg therefore have a revolutionary role to play for the sake of the African child in the field of agriculture.
This declaration is to encourage scientific curiosity among the youth to develop their skills. This declaration has no parallel in South Africa or anywhere else in the world. It is inspired by the visionary project of Her Royal Highness Princess Sara bint Mashhour bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud with a vision named ilmi. Al Jama-ah is adding to the streaming innovation of ilmi the integration of digital technology into agriculture that will increase productivity, sustainability and profitability. However, it is important to address challenges of digital divide, data privacy and cyber security to ensure equitable access and safeguarding sets of intervention.

The 10 differentiations are, and I’m going to focus on one or two, and I hope hon members find the time to write them down. The first one is precision agriculture, then genetic engineering and biotechnology, third is vertical farming and hydroponics, fourth is robotics and automation — robotic milking, I know you are used to milking manually, hon House Chair. Robotic milking is the way for the future. Machines and autonomous tractors that can navigate fields and perform tasks without human intervention. Hon House Chair, when you see tractors moving on fields without a person driving the
tractor, don’t be shocked; it’s not a ghost that’s driving the tractor.

Fifth, is the Internet of Things. Hon members, know the term “Internet of Things”. It will take agriculture to the next level whereby sensors and actuators can be deployed to make informed decisions regarding irrigation, pest control and even edible management. Sixth is sustainable farming practice, and there is still four to go. Big data analytics, artificial intelligence where artificial intelligence powered robots are being utilised to plant, harvest and for crop monitoring. Many people don’t have back problem in the future. Ninth is block chain, and tenth is farm management system. Hon House Chair, illicit financial flows will stop and will double the budget of the fiscus. So, hon members are asked to support the UN convention on tax reforms as proposed by South Africa under the Presidency of Thabo Mbeki.

Fatherhood has practiced and advocated to ... [Inaudible.] ... there must be a formal policy for South Africa. Al Jama-ah is concerned that fathers are encouraged to opt out of their responsibilities. That must change, and I am glad that the Deputy President has asked fathers in this House to have
regular breakfast with their children. I hope you enjoyed your breakfast this morning, hon House Chair.

The reason we must have fiscus wardens to follow all the monies they disburse to the poor children and the elderly to get their pound of flesh. I am pleased to inform Treasury and the nation that Al Jama-ah has a footprint in nearly 100 villages. This will be put before the Inter-Ministerial Committee chaired by deputy treasurer. Al Jama-ah has taken Parliament to the villages and now we want to take the economic needs of the villages to the Inter-Ministerial Committee of Cabinet Ministers. This is a new job that the President gave to the Deputy President when he was appointment.

What is sad is that no money has been budgeted for women to help with transport to get maintenance for their kids and their fathers do not pay to get transport allowance. The Department of Justice discriminates against women. Al Jama-ah has constitutional masters certificate for three Private Members Bills to restore the dignity of all women by getting justice for maintenance of their children as men fail to pay.
Muslims women are assisted by a registration Bill to get their Nikah marriage certificate to trigger another South African civil marriage certificate. Here the Minister of Home Affairs has gone the extra mile. The third Bill we’ve passed will get Muslim women to take their divorce to the divorce court in terms of Sharia marriages law. Imagine after 27 years some women were not allowed to appear before a divorce court. Hon Chair, thank you very much. Al Jama-ah supports this budget.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Hendricks, you asked the members to take notes of the points that you made. I see that no one took notes. I almost request you to read it again so they can take notes. But thank you very much. Hon members, I now recognise the Chief Whip of the FF Plus.

Mr W W WESSELS: The FF Plus calls for a division.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): My apologies, there is an ANC speaker before that. The ANC?

Ms N P MAHLO: Hon House Chair, Ministers, Deputy Ministers present and my colleagues, good afternoon. Hon House Chair, the ANC support the Budget Vote 29 and recommendations of the portfolio committee reports on the Department of Agriculture,
Land Reform and Rural Development. The ANC takes note of the implementation of the agricultural sector in helping grow our economy and the potential that the sector has in the creation of mass employment opportunities. We take note of the challenges faced by the sector such as outbreak of foot and mouth animal disease and the climate change that induce devastating impacts throughout, and flash floods in our country.

It is for this reason that as the ANC we consciously use budget allocation as a tool to finance our policy priorities aimed at the eradication of poverty, unemployment, inequality while addressing issues of race, class and gender equity.

We acknowledge funding challenges still faced by many of our emerging smallholder farmers, especially the rural women and youth farmers, and we have called for enhanced accountability on the Persa funds and the blended financial model at the Land Bank. We have emphasised the need for accountability by the bank and access to funding as well as effective implementation of the mandate of the Land Bank in agriculture which is helping our people.
We accept that the budget of the department is not sufficient to radically meet the needs of our slow growing economy. In this regard, I would like to join our hon President, Cyril Ramaphosa, in calling for a new consensus on growing our agricultural sector through social impact. I thank you.

Division demanded.


The House divided.


[Take in from minute]


Question agreed to.

Vote accordingly agreed to.


Vote No 30 – Communications and Digital Technologies – put.


Declarations of vote:

Ms T BODLANI: House Chairperson, the SA Post Office remains a thorn at the side of this department. Minister after Minister have failed to provide decisive leadership on the SA Post Office, Sapo. The ANC has failed to provide decisive leadership on Sapo. The SA Post Office has been financially
unstable for years and it has now reached a new low. The reason Sapo continues to receive massive state bailouts is simple, the ANC wants a state bank. What the ANC wants, the ANC gets at whatever necessary means.

Since 2013 Sapo has been losing millions due to poor management and looting of taxpayers’’ money. As a result, innocent workers are being laid off, medical aid funds not paid and Sapo branches closing leaving the poorest and the most vulnerable without services yet with all these criminalities there is no tangible criminal prosecution. In all these executives remain secure in the comfort of their jobs.

House Chairperson, what is embedded in the budget of the department is the fact that Sapo has outstanding liabilities of R3,3 billion. Let me remind this House that Sapo owes the ill-conceived Post Bank R3,2 billion. Essentially, Sapo is over R8,5 billion in the red. The DA respects the court process relating to the provisional liquidation of Sapo and we will monitor this closely.

We also note that 12 new companies have joined the court application. I must state that the process of the liquidation
of Sapo comes as no surprise to the DA or anyone who has followed the downward spiral of this entity over the last few years, and the Minister really believes that Sapo will be granted business rescue. We can declare without any doubt the ANC midas touch. Everything that the ANC touches breaks because for the ANC it is the ANC maybe South Africa later.

On the Post Office of tomorrow strategy, we can only say we have heard and we have seen this all before. it is the same script but the different Minister. the DA does not support the Budget Vote. Thank you.

Mr L E MOLALA: House Chair, over the medium-term the depart will focus on co-ordinating the roll-out of broadband into underserviced areas through the SA Connect enabling digital transformation inclusion through legislative and regulatory interventions. Bridging the digital divide that exist in the country and ensuring that young people from all walks of life have access to the internet as it is the central to the economy of the future. It is the apex of priority. And to this end we welcome the budget allocation for Vote 3 on Communications because it caters for the maintenance of Phase
1 of the SA Connect project as well as the expansion to Phase
2 which will look at capital equipment and new fibre
infrastructure or to lease existing fibre to expand information and communications technology’s, ICT’s, next work into underserviced areas.

Phase 2 also involves city upgradings and connecting government sites from the existing budget and the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, imposing universal service obligations on the mobile network operators to connect 18 036 schools, 3 873 health facilities and 8 21 tribal authority sites. Both Phase 1 and Phase 2 have been allocated R3,8 billion over the next three years. The ANC supports Vote 30. Thank you, Chair.

Division demanded.


The House divided.



Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.
Vote No 31 – Employment and Labour – put.


Declarations of vote:

Dr M J CARDO: Hon Chairperson, South Africa’s sky high unemployment rates is the single biggest threat to our future. The figures are alarming. Over 11 million people do not have a job. The expanded unemployment rate is fast approaching 45%.
Everywhere it governs, the ANC destroys jobs. It is only in the DA-run Western Cape where our employment numbers are substantially on the rise.

Decades of the ANC’s cadre deployments and corruption have hollowed out the state. The government’s bad policy choices have tanked the economy on the ANC’s watch. Infrastructure is collapsing and load shedding has returned us to the dark ages. This so-called progressive ruling party is profoundly, regressively and forever taking the nation backwards.

Enter the Minister of Employment and Labour armed with the Employment Amendment Equity Act and its mind-blowing retrogressive regulations. The Minister has taken upon himself to try to socially engineer the labour force. He accepts racial quotas for employment in various economic sectors reducing human beings to decimals treating them as fractional
parts. In some provinces across the country Indians and coloureds are no longer welcome in the workplace. The Minister’s message to them is clear, you are second class citizens and you don’t belong here. This throwback to apartheid era job reservation is going to deter investments, strangle growth and destroy jobs. That is why the DA is heading to court. We say ditch the race quotas Act.

While we read it the DA government would cut red tapes and reform our labour laws, exempt small business from the automatic extension of collective bargaining agreements and make it easier to hire young workers. It’s time for South Africans to destroy the job destroyers, the ANC, at the polls.

Mrs H DENNER: Hon House Chair, the Department of Labour is central to the last thing that the ANC has going for it, namely race-based politics, because where is it easier to enforce race-based, apartheid-designed legislation than in the labour market and onto the private sector?

Mark my words, the Employment Equity Amendment Act will worsen unemployment and the social ills that go hand in hand with it. This Act is the last convulsions of a dying organisation.
South Africans are fed up with this government’s social
engineering, discriminating, autocratic and interfering legislation.

Julle sal sien.


The North American rat snake starts feeding on itself when it can’t find food. The ANC has decimated the economy and the jobs market of this country. They have plunged more people into poverty than South Africa has ever seen before. We have a higher unemployment and crime rate than most war-torn countries. There is nearly nothing left for them to feed on and so now the ANC is feeding on itself. Soon there will be nothing left and we as a country will finally be free. I thank you, House Chair.

Mr S W MDABE: House Chair, the ANC supports Vote 31: Employment and Labour. Secondly, it must always be stated that South Africa has systemic deep and structural nature of unemployment. This is the reason why unemployment is so stubborn.
We have this democratic government that is led by the ANC which contributes to implement broad and wide range of policies aimed at addressing challenges of unemployment which has historical origins because there are majority in this country that were turned out of the economic creation space due to the colour of their skin. Lest we forget. We have sustained period of sluggish economic growth. All countries are able to deal with the challenges like unemployment when the economy is doing well. Ours, even if it does well it turns to uplift, empower and develop those racial groups who were already beneficiaries of the racist National party - the privileged ones.

When we work very hard around the clock to ensure that the wealth of this country is shared amongst those who worked it, parties like the DA and the FF Plus are at work at ensuring that the economy of this country continues to be exclusive for the privileged few. The Employment Equity Amendment Act, Act 4 of 2022, amended the Employment Equity Act, Act 55 of 1988 which by way give the employers a blank cheque to be accommodative of all people of this country in the workplace including those whom we refer as designated groups, people living with disabilities, women and all other vulnerable groups that receive the short end of the stick from the racist
policies of the National Party which the DA is fighting tooth and nail to maintain, including the divide and rule.

Whilst we are bust as the ANC building nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa, the DA and the FF Plus are busy polarising this integrated South African society by all sorts of distortions, falsification and mispresentations of all our labour laws like the Employment Equity Amendment Act.

Allow me to quote Chapter 2 section 9 of the Constitution of the Republic of South African:

Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken.

What does this mean? In a nutshell it means that democratic South Africa leaves no one behind. The DA and the FF Plus do not agree because according to them those who continue to struggle and find life tough must continue to suffocate while those with inheritance of crime against humanity must continue
to be protected and cushioned. The ANC boldly rejects that notion.

The issue of the two funds, the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, and the Compensation Fund, are diligently attended to by the portfolio committee. We have summoned the UIF in the meeting that was physical and thanks to Parliament for permitting the meeting to be eyeball to eyeball. We have UIF who knows exactly what it must do. But having said that it would be amiss of me not to tell tis august House that UIF initially budgeted to assist workers with temporal employment relief scheme amounting to R40 billion during the lockdown occasion by the COVID-19, but it ended up paying more than R60 billion to assist workers. With all those including employers who embezzled some of these workers’ relief funds,
60 of them have been arrested gone as far as sentenced with one of the fellows sentenced to 20 years.

Hon Chairperson, in the programme of the portfolio committee we have a date with the Compensation Fund. It is a follow-up to a number of interactions that we have with them where we deal with good and bad stories.
The Compensation Fund has developed a tertiary bursary programme for dependents of permanently injured and deceased workers. I continue to be fascinated by the rehabilitation and return to work programme of the Compensation Fund. They have this worker that found himself in a wheelchair but the Compensation Fund make it possible for this particular worker and is now polishing diamonds at De Beers.

As I have already indicated in the beginning the ANC supports Budget Vote 31: Employment and Labour. I so submit. Thank you, Chair.

Division demanded.

The House divided.



Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.


Vote No 32 — Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment — put.
Agreed to. (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 33 — Human Settlements — put.


Declarations of vote:

Mnr P MEY: Voorsitter, die meeste protesaksies in Suid-Afrika ontstaan as gevolg van die onwettige besetting van grond, dikwels in gebiede wat nie eers vir ontwikkeling geskik is nie, maar dan word basiese dienste geëis. Indien dit nie onmiddelik verskaf word nie, dan begin die protesaksies wat vir jare kan voortduur. Die publiek word verhoed om betyds by hul werk op te daag, wat die ekonomie verder benadeel.
Polisiebeamptes wat misdaad moet bekamp, spandeer duisende ure om protesaksies te beheer terwyl hulle misdaad moet bekamp.
Paaie word gebrand en beskadig.


Munisipaliteite het verskeie redes aangevoer waarom grond onwettig beset word. Een van die redes is dat hulle nie genoeg grond beskikbaar vir ontwikkeling het nie. In 2019 het die VF Plus die Minister van Menslike Nedersettings versoek om ’n opname van grond in metros wat vir ontwikkeling geskik is te
maak. Drie maande later kondig die Minister aan dat daar

14 000 hektaar om die metros beskikbaar is.


Die Departement van Openbare Werke is opdrag gegee om die staatsgrond van Landbou na residensiëel te ontkoppel. Die werk is binne drie jaar afgehandel. Dit stel munisipaliteite in staat om vooruit te beplan en basiese dienste daar te stel en is daar geen rede vir plakkers om grond onwettig te beset nie.

Die probleem is dat die munisipaliteite nie vining genoeg reageer nie en steeds word grond onwettig beset terwyl daar geen rede vir onwettige plakkery is nie aangesien daar wel genoeg grond beskikbaar is.

Dit is ’n geval van gebrek en beheer van dienslewering deur alle munisipaliteite, die Wes-Kaap ingesluit, dat hulle nie vroegtydig grond identifiseer nie en daarvoor kan niemand anders as slegs die munisipaliteite aanspreeklik gehou word nie. Ek dank u.


Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, the housing backlog in this country is sitting at about 2,4 million and this number, after nearly 30 years of democracy, represents a crisis. This is
especially so when we consider that in the last financial year, we delivered only about 38 900 houses. Access to housing and shelter continues to be a struggle for the homeless and following the failure to address the housing crisis of this country, many South Africans will still live in informal environments.

The reality is that we have a housing programme that is unresponsive, inflexible and outdated, and if we do not overhaul the programme and embrace local flexibility and innovation, we will increasingly fall behind and fail in our constitutional obligations.

While some housing authorities, local authorities or provinces continue to blame a shortage of land, this is a fallacy and a poor excuse. Due to the land laws of the apartheid era, we are unique globally for the amount of land under state control or state possession within our democracy. Public land should be used for public good and a continued stream of land release would strengthen functional towns and cities, and secure dignified housing for our people.

Housing and the lack of it continues to disadvantage our citizens, with safety, access to economic opportunities ...
[Inaudible.] ... the future. Shelter is one of the most basic needs a human can have and without it South Africa can be a hostile place. Thank you.

Ms N N SIHLWAYI: Hon Chairperson, the ANC is in support of Budget Vote No 33. The Freedom Charter committed the democratic government to ensure housing, security and comfort for all South Africans, and that commitment is visible to everyone who has eyes. We commend the department for ensuring that people who do not qualify for government subsidies and home loans are covered through the Financed Linked Individual Subsidy Programme.


Ubeka imali utitshala, amnike imali urhulumente.



We further wish to commend the department and the Housing Development Agency for its commitment to release land for housing in the form of serviced sites. During this financial year of the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, the department will continue with its programme to unblock some of the blocked projects to ensure that beneficiaries receive their homes.

Singaphindi sibuzwe nge ... [Ngokungavakaliyo.] ... apha nasi.


It is through the various strides of the department ... to bring about housing, security and comfort to all our people has been realised. The ANC fully supports the report on Budget Vote No 33. I thank you.

Agreed to. (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 34 — Mineral Resources and Energy — put.


Declarations of vote:
Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, as winter climbs to its apex, millions of South Africans are looking to their heat and lights, and wondering if the next time it goes off it will come back on again. The load shedding crisis continues to hold this country in its jaws and despite claims that load shedding will be concluded in December, the reality of a grid failure looms on the horizon. This failure should be our number one priority, as we have already lost up to 300 000 jobs in
Gauteng alone. We cannot afford nor manage that situation should it occur and we must look to our possible solutions with a mindset of rapid development.

The most viable and proven fast solution is a green transition. There is still backlash and hesitancy towards this idea due to perceived job losses and shying away from a resource in coal that we have an abundance of. While both of these points are relevant, there are already preventative measures in place to ensure that no one gets left behind during this new era.

The green revolution is occurring within the country, whether government supports it or not. Industries and mining are turning to solar. Multiple massive wind farms have had bids approved and have started to enter the production phase. We have seen a rapid demand for solar panels from the residential sector, breaking any previously held record and incentivising some initiatives such as the Power Heroes programme, which financially supports our citizens’ investment into this transition.

When combining this with various large nations aiding the country, the West through the Just Energy Transition
Partnership, JETP, and China’s commitment, one can see that it’s not only time for a green revolution but that this revolution is turning in green energy’s favour. With every instance of breakdowns, corruption and mismanagement throughout Eskom, this revolution burns brighter and it is the future of South Africa’s energy pool. Thank you.

Ms N P TYOBEKA-MAKEKE: Chairperson, the ANC unequivocally supports the Appropriation Bill because the allocation in Budget Vote No 34 is geared towards improving the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy’s policy making and regulatory capabilities, which had unintended developmental consequences in the past.

For instance, through this Appropriation Bill, the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy is empowered to submit, before the end of the Sixth Parliament, three groundbreaking Bills, that is the Electricity Regulation Act, the Electricity Pricing Policy and the Upstream Petroleum Resources Development Bill. Talking about that Bill, we had consultations in nine provinces and we also had public hearings to educate our people about this Bill which attempts to create a competitive electricity market, capable enough to deliver competitive electricity tariffs for poor households
and key strategic sectors at the heart of reindustrialising our economy, as well as separate mineral and petroleum provisions to incentivise investment and create investor certainty respectively. I thank you, Chairperson.

Division demanded.


The House divided.

[Voting take in from minutes]

Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.


Vote No 35 – Science and Innovation – put.


Declarations of vote:
Ms J S MANANISO: Thank you, House Chairperson. The ANC supports affirmative action to encourage all marginalised and vulnerable people to acquire and develop technological skills as acknowledged by Minister Blade Nzimande in the delivery of the budget vote.
Fundamental is the investment towards a new target that is set for funding the country’s research and development. Programmes to attract adequate investments in RMD across all sectors and throughout the country. This requires us to use and increase the uptake of locally produced technologies.

Our government understands that the people in the Science and Technology sector can not be achieved unless the are grounded in some education and research ... [Inaudible.] ... capabilities in our country. We support this budget. Thank you.

Agreed to. (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 36 – Small Business Development – put.


Declarations of vote:

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson ...



... niyalutshintsha-tshintsha olu luhlu andiyazi ... [Ngokungavakaliyo] ... ekuqaleni okanye ekugqibeleni.
Okwesibini, laa miboko yokuthetha iphaya mifutshane iba ngathi utshayela ngeentshiya okanye ujongise umetyiso ezantsi xa uthetha. Asililo ixesha lenu eli, aningeni ndawo. Mamelani,



... you see the problem with the small business. Our approach with the small business is the spaza shop mentality. When I used to work in the banking industry, we used to call small businesses big businesses because we used to focus on them and make sure we grow and provide support. But here, small business ...


... esi siyohlulwa.



I mean, look at the budget of the small business, it is R2,5 billion and most of it goes to these useless entities that send our people from pillar to most when they come to apply for funding.

Eli sebe logqithwa naliSebe lobuGcisa neNkcubeko ngohlahlo lwabiwo-mali oluyi R6 yezigidi zezigidi. Into eliyenzayo iSebe lezobuGcisa neNkcubeko kukuthi, tutwini akuhlanga lungehlanga okanye ixele ela bhabhathane kuthiwa livivingane, limana ukubhabhela esibaneni ibhiyozela isibane esingalayitwanga lilo. Loo nto ithetha ukuba bathanda nje ukuya kwizisusa abangakhange baziqale ngokwabo bebhiyozela izinto ezenziwe ngabanye abantu.


The other thing is, in the past if you consider what’s happening in the rest of the African continent, I’ve made mention on numerous occasions of the Ghana Investment Protection Promotion Centre Act, where specific industries and sectors of the economy are reserved for locals ...


... ukuqinisekisa ukuba abantu bakuthi abasezilokishini bayakhuseleka. Asiyenzi thina loo nto apha kukwavula zibhuqe. Abantu bayangena umntu enze le nto afuna ukuyenza akabhalisi ukuze ahlawule irhafu. Kwenziwa unothanda nje, akubhatalwa rhafu, kulalwa kwakuzo ezi venkile zisezilokishini kuba kaloku umntu akanayo enye indawo yokuhlala, kulalwa kuzo. Abantu
batya ukutya okuphelelwe lixesha kwezi zinto neziselo ongazaziyo ukuba zivela kweliphi icala ...

... which is a problem. But also there is victimisation that continues in small businesses.


Uninzi lwethu apha sikhuliswe ngemali yokuthengisa utywala. Nam lo ndilapha nje ndikhuliswe ngayo, ndondliwa ngayo, ndasiwa esikolweni ngayo. Kodwa uza kufumanisa ukuba, la mapolisa xa efuna ukunxila abantu bokuqala ababaxhaphazayo ngaba mama bathengisa utywala. Asibancedisi nangee ...


... off site licenses, instead ...


... bavele baxuthe utywala nayo yonke into kuba bafuna ukunxila ngempelaveki bengayazi ukuba abantu baza kuphinda bathengise ngantoni.

The other issue is ...

... apha ephinda ibekhona yile yokuba, nalapha ...


... in the Western Cape the transport sector is victimised.


Abanye bethu apha thina bantu bamnyama bakhuliswe ngemali yeetekisi. Apha ke zithi zisaqala ukujikela ekoneni, zimiswe zithathwe ...


... for the silliest of reasons instead of helping the sector in order for it to be able to flourish. No one considers what happens to the operators and the drivers who are unemployed, who can’t feed their children every day ...

... ngenxa yobu bubhanxa yokuba besizisa izinto zabo kwiindlela ezakhiwe ngemali yethu ibengathi zezabo, la masela.

Mr F JACOBS: House Chair, from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free.
The budget allocation allows for the Department of Small Business Development to continue carrying out its mandate of supporting entrepreneurship and Small, Medium and Micro Enterprise, SMME, development, especially in our townships and rural communities.

This budget will seek to approve loan finance to the value of R2,5 billion and disperse R2,2 billion to 93 000 small business cooperatives, which includes 30 000 young people.

Small business is big business. The ANC supports Budget Vote
36. I thank you.


Question put.


Agreed to.


Vote No 37 – Sport, Arts and Culture – put.


Declarations of vote:
Mr E MTHETHWA: Hon House Chair, rise and peace to the chief in command, the EFF leadership and the ground forces of the government in waiting.
House Chair, we rejected this budget vote when we participated in the debate. We want to reiterate the view that this department has completely ignored the cultural and creative sector such that many of our legendary artists, actors, sportsmen, sportswomen, are dying and getting buried as paupers.

The Minister speaks of discovering developing and encouraging national talent, we all know that this is a myth as there has never been even a single programme that searches for raw talent under the ANC government. Unless the Minister wants to falsely claim to be running Pop Idols.

As far as we know, ANC has always seen the sector as nothing more just an afterthought; a donkey’s wagon to carry the wishful hopes of its imaginative social cohesion programme.

It is the figment of his imagination to even say that the government, under the ANC, is making inroads towards social cohesion.

The rainbow nation exists in theory, thus racism is still rife against Africans, in particular blacks.
It is misleading the country to say that you will create jobs. The demagogy and the rhetoric known of ANC since the dawn of democracy.

One would ask how the Minister is going to create jobs and for who, when he has turned the department into an events management company [Time expired.] when the Department of Arts and Culture, DAC, and the Department of Labour have dismally failed since 2009 to define workers as workers ... [Interjections.]

Mr M A ZONDI: Hon House Chair, the ANC stands to affirm that it supports Budget Vote 37 as delivered by the hon Minister Zizi Kodwa.

We have seen the continuous work and achievements by the department over the past four years.

We recognise that the arts and culture, a sense of identity and pride has been cultivated in our country.

The government has prioritised the creativity of our South African creatives as three received Grammy Awards.
The successful establishments of arts and culture academies as well as incubator programmes and community art centre programmes are some of the testimonies accounted for.

The department has multiple plans to change the conditions of our creative artists. Our government has encouraged social cohesion ... [Interjections.] ... working on unity among various sporting codes for transformation; and the dancers are our witness. Thank you, hon House Chair.

Division demanded.

Question put.



Agreed to,


Vote No 38 – Tourism – put.


Declarations of vote:

Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Chairperson, as I have expressed my budget would declaration, tourism is an important department to
assist in stimulating the economic development and job creation of South Africa.

The IFP is concerned about the South African Tourism Board and its appointments. There are grounds for concern by the committee, especially as a number of board meetings held are indirectly in contradiction with the Tourism Act of 2014.

Even after the committee draw your attention to this, as a Minister, you are compelled to respect the regulations of our country and inform the board of such irregularities. The board of South African Tourism seems to be of the opinion that they are allowed to act independently of legislations governing these operations.

The issues with the board are so glancingly obvious that the entire committee stand united on not approving the budget unless the following conditions have been met. The target in the annual performance plan, of the South African Tourism have been revised that the vacancies at the executive level South African Tourism are filled.

The delegation taken by the board in the latter of 27 April 2023 has been reversed and given back to the executive as
South African Tourism. Hon Minister and the IFP take the rejections of the Budget Vote very seriously.

We cannot approve the spending of public funds which we believe will be misappropriated and without legislative conditions being met. I would like to know what steps have been taken since the Budget Vote declaration on the 24th of May to address parliamentary concerns. Thank you, hon Chairperson.

Ms S T XEGO: House Chairperson. The ANC supports Budget Vote
38 on Tourism. We remain unwavering in our conviction that the sector is a pivotal sector in the country's economic recovery. Therefore, it is important that it is transformed to ensure that tourism establishments are transferred to villages, townships, small dorpies/towns so that they can boost and economy and develop our own local and cultural economies.

To this end, we are happy that the tourism equity fund has been released and will be disbursed to deserve tourism businesses. In the same vein, we call for the Ministry to quickly resolve the issue on our entity, South African Tourism as we have boldly raised it on the parliamentary committee meeting leading up to the budget debates on the Budget Vote
for South African Tourism that the SA Tourism needs to ensure that it fills in all the five executives, which must be able to spend the 53%, which culminates to R4,2 billion that
gets transferred to the entity.


Hon members, we understand as the ANC that the budget is the only tool to ensure that we transform and better the lives of our people who vote for us. We are therefore supporting this budget to ensure that it translates to our manifesto promises, and it does build the economy that we want to live in.


Division demanded.

The House divided.


AYES – 208: (ANC – 205; Good – 2; NFP – 1).


NOES – 131: (DA - 74; EFF - 33; IFP – 10; FF Plus - 10; ACDP – 3; UDM - 1).

Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.
Vote No 39 – Trade, Industry and Competition - put.


Declarations of vote:

Mr F J MULDER: Hon House Chair, South Africa's future economic prosperities link to political conditions and policy revisions. The government's lack of political will and capacity to implement economic recovery plans with speed and urgency or not at all is a serious impediment.

More rapid economic growth would have placed South Africa in a much-improved fiscal position with higher gross domestic product per capita and a substantially lower unemployment rate. Hon House Chair, the FF Plus will not support this Budget Vote. Thank you.

Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson Department of Trade Industry and Competition has a mandate to facilitate the creation of a conducive environment for companies to grow, consequently creating jobs. The reality is that we are shedding jobs, evidenced by our high unemployment rate.
Clearly, this department is failing to create an environment conducive for economic growth.
We welcome the increased beneficiation measures championed by the ACDP for many years, and while we have generally given support to the departments’ master plans as potential catalysts for economic and industrial growth, this department has become hamstrung by a lack of structural reform as it holds on to race based policies reminiscent of the dark days of apartheid.

The result of this is reflected in our economy, with some of the highest inflation rates sitting at the inflation of 6,9% with poverty increasing gene coefficient of 63,0% indicating the highest inequality levels in the world. High unemployment of 32,9% on the narrow definition of unemployment and 42,4% on the expanded definition with 7,8 million unemployed and
16,8 million South Africans not economically active.


Additionally, our debt to gross domestic product, GDP, is expected to reach 70,1% by the end of 2023. With debt servicing costs becoming the largest budget item crowding out social welfare and economic programs.

The call by Mr Ramaphosa for structural reform and partnership with the private sector rings hollow with the tabling of the Employment Equity Amendment Act and the draft regulations by
the Department of Water and Sanitation to determine access to water based on skin colour.

The ACDP believes that black South Africans are intelligent, innovative, industrious, and capable of proving their worth if given quality education, which nurtures the commensurate skills required by the business and industrial sector.

In addition, an environment conducive to economic growth, which fosters job creation, is what is needed, not race based legislation reminiscent of the hideous days of apartheid job preservation based on the colour of one skin. The ACDP does not support this Budget Vote.

Ms J HERMANS: Hon Chairperson, the ANC, supports the Budget Vote 39. Our transformational objectives are centred around the work of the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition. The Vote is very clear on the direction that our economy should be taking which includes reindustrializing our economy, dealing with the structural constraints of concentration and the abuse of dominance by dominant players in the market, including the intensification of localization which will create many job opportunities and build resilience for our economy in a highly unstable geoglobal political climate.
We further believe that this budget seeks to address the necessary integration of the African economy through the economic integration using the African continental free trade area as a tool to achieve this. Those who support progress and development fully understand how important this is for the greater good of South Africa and the continent at large, I thank you.

Question agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote accordingly agreed to.

Vote No 40 – Transport – put.


Declarations of vote:

Mnr P MEY: Afrikaans: Voorsitter, dit is algemeen bekend dat alle sterk ekonomië in die wêreld oor moderne vervoerstelsels beskik. Openbare vervoerstelsels moet bekostigbaar en te alle tye beskikbaar wees.
In Suid-Afrika is dit egter nie die geval nie en word arme mense geforseer om van taxis gebruik te maak. Ons treinstelsel, Prasa, is van die swakste en vervoer slegs 2 miljoen pesone per weerk, terwyl taxis ongeveer 105 miljoen passasiers per week vervoer.

In die Nelson Mandela Metro is geen passierstreine, sedert Februarie 2022 beskikbaar nie. Kan u glo, ’n metro sonder passasierstreine.

Alle Suid-Afrikaners sal verkies om per trein te reis, aangesien dit die goedkoopste manier van reis is, maar omrede daar nie genoeg lokomotiewe is nie, word hulle verplig om van taxis gebruik te maak, wat baie duurder is.

Die treinstelsel voor 1994 was van die beste en was passasiers en vrag dwarsoor Suid-Afrika vervoer. Ditw as die slagaar van die ekonomie en alle dorpe en stede in Suid-Afrika was met ’n moderne treinstelsel verbind.

Dit is deur die ANC vernietig. Weereens het die ANC die armes versaak. Ons spoorwegstasies is vervalle en die meeste sal herbou moet word. Die rede is dat daar geen spoorwegpolisie is nie en dat privaatsekuriteits-maatskappy onvoldoende is.
Ons provinsiale paaie is in ’n baie swak toestand, as gevolg van slaggate wat deur swaer vragmotors veroorsaak word. Die Departement van Vervoer kon ook nie daarin slaag om vervoer van pad na spoor om te skakel nie. Daar is geen erns nie.


Mr B N HERRON: House Chairperson, we will support the Vote, thank you.

Muf M M RAMADWA: Ndi a livhuwa Mudzulatshidulo wa Nndu, Tshimebi Tshihulwane Vho Pemmy Majodina, na Muthusa Tshimebi Tshihulwane Vho Dorris.

Hon House Chairperson, the ANC supports Budget Vote 40 on Transport. This Budget Vote seeks to enhance transport in the country, which is an important economic driver. Out transport system is governed in many sectors by the highest international standards in aviation and marine. This Budget Vote particularly seeks to develop road and rail infrastructure for the benefit of the economy and the people.
Furthermore, this Budget Vote for Transport seeks to further develop public transport for the benefit of the working class and the poor. Opposition parties which oppose this Budget Vote are opposing transport infrastructure development and public transport development for the working class and the poor.

Rine sa ANC, ri tikedza Vouthu ya Mugaganyagwama 40. Ri tikedza ngauri u ?o khwinifhadza matshilo a lushaka lwa Afrika Tshipembe. Mulalo Afrika Tshipembe, ANC i ?o ri vhusa i tshi ya phan?a.

Question agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 41 – Water and Sanitation – put.


Declarations of vote:

Mr N G MYBURGH: Hon House Chair, hon members, there huge storm clouds gathering on the horizon, and those clouds have names; they are called water, sanitation, energy, and food. According to the World Economic Forum, access to water is now one of the three biggest risks in doing business in this country.
Furthermore, the interdependence of water, energy, and food, all three which are crucial for a properly functioning economy is dangerously overlooked by this government. For years now, industry experts, academics, politicians alike have raised the alarm about water and sanitation, all to no avail.

Water continues to be wasted on a massive scale, revenues are still not collected, maintenance is non-existent, and nobody has gone to jail for looting the resources of the people.
Clearly, radical interventions are required throughout the country except for the Western Cape, which continues to outperform all other provinces in the fields of water and sanitation.

As we speak, infrastructure as far as water and sanitation is concerned is collapsing across the country, that’s why we need to spend R1 trillion just to arrest further decay. That means R100 billion every year for the next 10 years. Government needs to understand that the private sector is not their enemy. The private sector is even willing to foot most of this enormous bill provided that this lame duck government with its lame duck President can get its act together.
We urge the government today to stop the madness of racializing water licences. It will not save your bacon at the ballot box next year. The DA will fight this latest assault on non-racialism with all the means at our disposal because it is the right thing to do. Instead of fiddling with race regulations whilst the taps are literally running dry, the ANC should be putting water along with energy at the very top of the country’s agenda. That’s why today, we reiterate our call to the President to convene with the greatest sense of energy a national water summit to find effective solutions and to bring about drastic interventions before it is too late.

Hon Chair, hon members, on a lighter note, may I close by observing that every time that the hon Minister of Finance comes to this House, he reminds all of us that that side of the House – the ANC – is all hat and no cattle. That is why we firmly believe that the DA should be firmly in the saddle. I thank you.

Mr N SINGH: Hon House Chairperson, as we come to the end of a very long day with Vote 41 – Water and Sanitation – I am very glad that the hon Minister of finance has been seated here throughout. Hon Minister, you would have all the kinds of comments coming from all sides of the House on specific Budget
Votes. The one failing of this Parliament and all the Parliaments before us is that we have not applied our own legislation, which is the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act, an Act which we passed. It was an Act that the Minister at that time – your predecessor – did not want to introduce and Parliament introduced it. It provides Parliament with an opportunity to amend budgets. Up to now, we have not used that opportunity to amend any budget that comes from the executive because the thing is that we don’t have the time specified within that legislation. We need to relook the legislation and we need to hold the executive to account. We can’t have an executive budget foisted on us as Parliament.
Hopefully, in the Seventh Parliament, if you are still the Minister, I don’t know, I hope that the new parliamentarians will exercise this opportunity to look at budgets.

Minister, just to follow on the last speaker about water infrastructure, we must not only focus on legacy projects of new infrastructure, but we must also look at maintenance of existing infrastructure. The unfortunate 23 deaths in Hammanskraal were largely because of a lack of maintenance of the infrastructure there that resulted in the water being contaminated. Whoever did it. But government needs to top slice money for maintenance of infrastructure. Minister, if
that can be done as a general principle that we look at maintenance, I think we will go a long way.

If you look at sanitation plants, if you look at our government buildings, there are very few government buildings that we feel proud to walk into, whether it is Home Affairs or any other department, unless they are new buildings. Something must be done in the overall crafting of budgets at an executive level to make sure that we top slice money some of these things which are necessary to take us forward and make us proud as South Africans. Hopefully, next time around, budgets will be amended as we come to this process here, which you would also be part of. So, we will support Water and Sanitation Budget Vote, and I hope hon Minister that the general principles are considered. Thank you.

Mr B N HERRON: House Chairperson, we will support the Budget Vote, but we do need to raise concerns around the latest report that was released this week regarding the water quality that shows that about 50% of our municipalities are reported to be critical condition regarding wastewater treatment facilities, and that they have failed to make any improvements since 2022. Even the recent Cholera outbreak that occurred at Hammanskraal and now the North West and the Free State as well
and the analysis provided by the Green Drop and Blue Drop Certification Programmes that shows the full extent of the current water infrastructure in our country.

From 2013, we have seen several wastewater systems that were labelled as being in critical condition have risen from 248 out 824 to 334 out of 850. In response to the outrage regarding the lives lost to the Cholera outbreak last week, President Ramaphosa showed South Africans that our water was at high quality but having close to 40% of our water plants failing to manage their waste facilities correctly cannot be associated with the words “high quality.”

Only 34 of 160 ... [Inaudible.] ... given by this water certification programmes were implemented. Out of 151, only 36% have above average gradings ... [Inaudible.] ... percent received bad grading for microbiological quality and compliance. Thirty-five percent received bad on their chemical compliance, and 11 municipalities didn’t even bother to provide evidence despite instructions.

This is a manmade crisis, and if we continue to accept these standards at high quality, we obviously run a higher risk.
Thank you.
Mr M R MASHEGO: Just as a matter of principle to address one or two things, hon Myburgh, on the issuing of water licences, in South Africa of 100% licences that are issued, 90% of them lie in the hands of white racist Afrikaners. For you to change that structure, you shouldn’t be racial about it because if you don’t, you’ll consistently give it to whites. And therefore, you don’t call that racist, but you are addressing the previously disadvantaged people to enter that fray. If you say you are going to fight against it, it means you want to continue the racial denomination of water licences in the world, it must not be allowed. It must be fought by all means because you are not taking into cognisance the demographics of the country.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Hon Mashego, take your seat please. Hon Schreiber, you don’t have a right to tell a member to leave the podium and go and sit. I will ask you to leave this Chamber. Please continue, hon Mashego.

Mr M R MASHEGO: It is for that reason that the South African electorate had in 2019 general elections mandated the ANC to continue governing and prioritise the rollout and provision of
water infrastructure to ensure the availability of clean water for all South Africans.

Hon members, the portfolio committee has considered the annual performance plans of the Department of Water and Sanitation and its entities, and we can confirm that they are in line with the spirit of the electoral mandate to ensure the rollout and the expansion of access to water and sanitation infrastructure to all our people irrespective of race, gender, and demographic location. Expanding access to water and sanitation infrastructure is an important achievement to this democratic government. Through the roll out of the big infrastructure projects, women, youth, and people living with disabilities are benefitting through the department’s procurement.

The ANC, in supporting this Budget Vote, wants to implore that indeed hon Singh, your concern should be addressed, the issue of infrastructure and its development will be done. For that reason, the ANC supports Budget Vote 41. Thank you very much.

Division demanded.


The House divided.
Question put.





Question agreed to.


Vote accordingly agreed to.

Schedule put.

Agreed to. (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party and United Democratic Movement dissenting).


(Second Reading debate)


There was no debate.


Bill read a second time. (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party and United Democratic Movement dissenting).
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, let me appreciate the co-operation that we received from the Whips. And also, for the presence of the Minister of Finance to be part of this process since this morning. Let us also recognise the hon Minister of Social Development who was here for the better part of the day.

The House adjourned at 17:07.




No related