Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 06 Jun 2023


No summary available.


Watch: Plenary 


The Council met at 14:03.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

The Chairperson announced that the hybrid sitting constituted a Sitting of the National Council of Provinces.


Debate on Budget Vote No 19 - Social Development:


The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Hon Chairperson, it is always a pleasure for us to be here as the Department of Social Development, Hon members of the NCOP, my colleague the Deputy Minister of Social Development Hon Hendrietta Bogopane- Zulu, Ministers and Deputy Ministers present here ...

... ngibabonile abe ...


 ... Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, we also know that you are having your debate, Hon chairperson and members of the Select Committee on Health and Social Services, Hon members of the Executive Council for Social Development in our nine provinces ...

...iMpumalanga okungenani ihleli la phambi kwethu ...



 ... we can see them, acting director-general Mr Mchunu, acting CEOs of both SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, and the National Development Agency, NDA, Mr Mahlangu and Ms Hlapolosa respectively ...

 ... sinosihlalo webhodi futhi ngicabanga ukuthi nonke niyamazi uMama u-Ruth Bhengu ...

 ... who is here, she is now the chairperson of the NDA, chairperson of the Central Drug Authority Ms Nandi Mayathula- Khoza, I think ...


... abaningi naye bayamazi ...



 ... Registrar of the SA Council for Social Service Professions Ms Langi Malamba ...


 ... naye ukhona, bantu basemakhaya Molweni, Sanibonani, Lotjhani, Avuxeni, Dumelang, Ndi masiari ...

 ... I also would like to thank you Chairperson for the previous salutations that you have already done for ...

... ogogo abakhona namhlanje ...


 ... we thank them for having trekked down here and we thank their management and everybody who agreed to make arrangements for them to be here but also most importantly, we like to thank our visitors from Ethiopia and say to them, you are welcome to South Africa, this is our democracy, this is how we do things and this is how we work. Permit me, Chairperson, to convey my condolences to the family of the late Hon Tina Joemat-Pettersson who’s passing away unexpectedly ... we learnt yesterday, devastated and shocked us and I think the MEC Vilakazi from the North West was here and she was with us
yesterday at the meeting of the MECs, our Ministers and Members of Executive Councils Meeting, Minmec, and I think she is busy with that now because she got the news while we were just sitting there at the meeting, and we are pained about what happened but I would also like to take this opportunity to say to all of us as South Africans, can we be human? Can we be people who understand that ...


 ... umuntu oshonile akukhulunywa into ebhedayo ngaye. Umuntu oshonile siyalinda ukuthi umndeni umzilele ...

... and do everything necessary so ...

 ... bonke laba abamatasa belahlela imininingwane nezinto ezingahlali kahle kuthina singamalungu e-ANC, ngicela ukuthi, asithi ukwehlisa kancane kuze umndeni ukwazi ukumbeka.
Umangabe kukhona abantu abaphethe izinto ezithize, mabazibeke eceleni okwamanje sike ukubhekana nalobu buhlungu esikubo.


At the same time ...


 ... ngicela ukuthatha leli thuba ngibonge ukuthi singabaseNingizimu Afrika ...


 ... we are appreciative of the contributions made by some of these comrades including Tina Joemat. I would also like at this point also thank the late ambassador Masethla who was South Africa’s ambassador to Algeria and ranks among the country’s legendary director-generals. These are a few among countless colleagues who touched my life in many ways and I cannot even start to say. I am grateful for their lives and I think I am not the only one who is grateful for the lives of those who contributed to the liberation struggle, but they
went beyond the contribution of liberating this country. They made sure that they joined us in developing institutions of governance and made sure that they contribute to a free and democratic South Africa. Wherever they are, they must watch us. We will build this country brick-by-brick until it becomes what we want it to be. I thank this opportunity to present the 2023-24 Budget Vote for the Department of Social Development under the theme: DSD @ Work: Leaving No One Behind. This takes place as we consolidate the work and commitments that we enabled throughout the Sixth Administration, particularly relating to our ongoing investments in ensuring that the quality of life of the people of South Africa is improved.
Ours is to contribute towards creating a conducive environment for South Africans. We are duly tabling Budget Vote 19 of the Department of Social Development before you immediately following the closing of the National Child Protection Week that ran from 28 May until yesterday 4 June under the theme: Protection of Children During and After COVID-19.

While we launched the week here in Hout Bay in the Western Cape province, we concluded it in Manzini in Mpumalanga we wish to thank the Mpumalanga province for having taken us through and we commemorated the day well but at the same time painfully. MEC Ntshalintshali, listening to children telling
us about the things that pained them in their homes, in the street, in taxis, buses, schools and everywhere. Listening to the experiences of the children who were molested, but what pained me most sitting in front of two mothers who lost their children because somebody somewhere had thought killing children and using their body parts would give them something. It is our responsibility as South Africans to end it. It is our responsibility house-to-house, street-to-street, and community-to-community. It is time we all stood up collectively, even forgetting our political differences, to end this violence against women and children, in particular against children. This year’s commemoration focused on orphans and vulnerable children as well as rape, sexual abuse and the killing of children. We engaged these focus areas by receiving first-hand accounts, as I initially said, this theme recognises the need for our collective as a society, inclusive of every one of us and families in every community in the 52 district and metropolitan municipalities of our country to personally care for every child and help the children of South Africa to develop multiple resilience strategies and life skills by which they will successfully navigate the different challenges that our society encounters.
Our society encounters many challenges and this is not the time for us to be pointing fingers at each other. This is the time, just like we did during the liberation struggle, for us to unite and build our country. As we strengthen our prevention measures to create safe environments wherein children can thrive, the different spheres of the government, civil society organisations and multilateral partners will continue this campaign as we say, 365 Days Programme, same as we say, against violence and the abuse of women, it is 365 Days. Likewise, this tabling comes right at the outset of our commemoration of Youth Month, under the theme: Accelerating Youth Economic Emancipation for a Sustainable Future, MEC Ntshalintshali, as we were going now driving to the airport, I was looking at the beautiful farms with all the nice oranges and full trees and I was saying to myself, this is what South Africa needs but I was asking myself the question, when are the black young South Africans getting the opportunity to own those farms and also run productive farms. It is our responsibility to make sure that as we drive around and see the economy of our country, we see it also in the hands of black people who were never given the opportunity. After 300- and-something years of oppression, now they have to speed up and catch up with everybody, let that be our responsibility.
The complexity of the unbearable socioeconomic challenges that today’s youth have to contend with has been established in the 2022 Status of Youth Report. A few that are relevant to the Social Development portfolio include; One, outside of the added hardship of COVID-19 imposed on South Africa’s youth, their health-related prospects have been growing dimmer, this includes areas such as nearly nonexistent medical insurance coverage, the persistent recurrence of mental health challenges and the accompanying suicide epidemic among the youth, the growing number of female youth who had experienced unwanted unplanned pregnancies, the mounting phenomenon of substance abuse; Two, whereas only 3,4 million youth were employed, another 10,3 million who were aged between 15 and 34 years were not in employment, education or training. This is what we need to focus on; Three, in 2021, youth-owned enterprises were only 23,9% of the total number of SMMEs; Four, the number of male and female youth who live in incomeless households is on the increase; Five, at least
3,4 million youth indicated that their primary source of livelihood was social grants, this is what this government does, and if there is one thing that we need to say is we will fight to make sure that the grants are there to make sure that the grants cover everyone who needs it so that we get a chance of lifting them;
Six, the promotion of youth living below the food poverty line and the lower-bound poverty line respectively are on the increase, Seven, 26,5% or 4,6 million South African households were headed by youth with 73,1% of these being in the Gauteng province; Eight, 12,8% or 2,6 million South African youth lived in households that experienced hunger, the highest proportion of youth who lived in households that experienced hunger were in the North West province with 26,4%, Western Cape 21,4% and the Northern Cape with 20,7%, and what we do as the Department of Social Development, working together with the MECs and departments is to focus on dealing with poverty. We have to get rid of poverty in South Africa.

For these reasons, our collective ought to agree that the economic emancipation of this demographic group as well as all qualitative improvement of the state of the people, the different communities and provinces where they live, should take precedence over the ideological and other differences between us. As a result, in tabling Budget Vote 19 of the Department of Social Development, I’m calling upon each one of us to join efforts under the people, private, public, civil, and academic multilateral partnership that is enabled by the Social Sector Framework Agreement. There is a silver lining and I am hoping that people can see that and catch it. As we
are tabling Budget Vote 2023-24, we reiterate our most pressing concerns that are; one, the Social Development budget allocation has not kept pace with our growing population and the complexity of their social development needs;

Two, equally concerning are the rising costs of unfunded and underfunded mandates that the Social Development portfolio is expected to implement; three, completing these two points is the recognition that there is slow institutionalisation of the Cabinet-adopted District Development Model whose prospects and effectiveness we hope will help us to attend to the social development needs of the different communities. Noting these, we plead with the Hon members of the NCOP to strengthen the relevant resources and institutional shortfalls towards ensuring that Social Development meaningfully attends to the aspirations of our people. Working together in pursuit of realising the aspirations of the people of South Africa during the 2023-24 financial year, we will give priority to; working together with other mandates or spheres of the government toward producing South Africa’s poverty-alleviating strategy which includes the policy on the basic income grant support for 18—59-year-old people who are not working, in part this addresses economic exclusion.

Laba abahlale bebanga umsindo ukuthi sinikeza abantu imali, siyobanikeza abantu imli umangabe bengenalutho futhi siyazi uma sibanikeza le mali asibanikezi ukuthi bayimoshe noma badlale ngayo, lena imali abaphila ngayo abantu. Ngakhoke laba abathi ayikho imali besibangela umsindo, sicela ukubatshela ukuthi umsebenzi wethu ...

 ... is to make sure that our people are lifted out of poverty. Two, optimising the ...

 ...futhi sisakhuluma lokho sifuna ukusho ukuthi umsebenzi wokukhipha abantu bethu ebuphofini akuwona umsebenzi woMnyango Wezokuthuthukiswa Kwabantu uwodwa, yonke iminyango kaHulumeni kufuneka iqinisekise ukuthi ...


 ... we create a conducive environment from education, health, transport and to all the departments.

La sihamba khona sisebenzela into eyodwa, ukuthuthukisa izimpilo zabantu ...

 ... and we must be united in doing that. ... performance of nonprofit organisations, NPOs, while implementing a risk-based supervision framework that will prevent the abuse of NPOs in money laundering, terrorism financing and proliferation.


Ngicela ukunikhumbuza futhi ukuthi siwumnyango ...

... we spent R8,2 billion if not more on NPOs.


Sithi kuma-NPOs akhona, sizoqhubeka nani sininikeze lo msebenzi kodwa nani kufuneka niziphendulele ngoba yimali yabakhokhi bentela le. Akufuneki kuziphendulele uHulumeni kuphela. Wonke umuntu onikezwa imali kaHulumeni kufuneka aqinisekise ukuthi ...

 ... that money is spent on what it was meant for. Three, strengthen the provision of care and support services for the survivors of gender-based violence and femicide through the provision and operationalisation of shelters, economic participation and psychosocial support services, this includes the provision of relevant infrastructure in the provinces that do not have these. At this point please allow me to express my heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of all the victims of gender-based violence in our communities and I say, together ...


... singawenza lo msebenzi.


Together we can stop it. Four, expanding community-based child care and protection services as well as early intervention services. Five, creating employment opportunities because ...

 ... mina ngikhathele nayilaba bantu abakhuluma into ebhedayo ngezinye izikhathi, bathi thina ...

... all we do is a department of consumption.



... Sinikeza abantu imali ngoba kufuneka baphile ...



 ... but at the same time, we look for opportunities, especially for young people and young women, we want them to have fewer children so that ...

 ... uma beqeda isikole ... ngoba nakhona esikoleni bakhishelwa uHulumeni, bakwazi ukuya kuma-techicons, bakwazi ukuya emanyuvesi ... futhi sithi kuMnyango Wezemfundo sicele ukuthi abemaningi andiswe ama-technicons ngoba akusiye wonke umuntu ozoya enyuvesi.

Some need to go to technicons. Six, scaling up interventions that address the scourge of alcohol and substance abuse and the associated challenges of gangsterism.

Uyabona enye into nje ecasulayo yile nto yokuthi uma uthi uhamba amagxathu amahlanu noma ayisithupha emiphakathini yethu kunezindawo zokuphuza utshwala. Sicela labo abanikeza labo bantu amalayisensi bake bayeke ukunikeza amalayisensi ...


 ... where the licenses are being issued next to a school, church and closer to the people.


Uma uya nje kwezinye izindawo kulaba banye abantu ababesicindizele ngaphambilini, awuzukuthola izindawo zokucima ukoma zigcwele yonke indawo. Yindaba thina sigcwalisa izindawo zokucima ukoma ngathi kukhona othi, masibayekeni labo baphuze utshwala khona bangeke beze ngalana bezofuna umnotho wezwe.


Developing and operationalising the National Integrated Social Protection Information System, Nispis. Working with stakeholders across the government, private sector and so forth. Having identified these priorities, I am tabling Budget Vote 19 of the Department of Social Development as follows: The total budget allocation for the national Department of Social Development for 2023 is R263 billion. Included in this
is an amount of R253 billion that consists of direct cash transfer payments that Sassa expects to pay to a projected
27 million eligible grant beneficiaries by March 2024.

Unfailingly ... from Acornhoek ... to across the country, Sassa will continue to pay social grants. The department’s total allocation for the 2023-24 financial year includes an additional R41 billion that will be directed towards; one, the implementation and administration of the COVID-19 Social Relief of Distress, SRD ...

Lena ... la ngihamba khona bathi, siyawufuna u-R350 wethu. Siyanitshela ukuthi u-R350 wenu sizolokhu siwulwela kodwa kufuneka niwusebenzise ngendlela elungile lo-R350 khona sizokwazi ukubuyela kuMgcinimafa sithi cha nook bayisebenzisa kahle le mali sicela ukuthi nike niyikhuphule.


The inflationary increase in the value of grants is

R5,8 billion. the compensation of employees is R15 million. The department’s total budget allocation includes an amount of R7,8 billion for Sassa’s administration of grants,
R220 million will be transferred to the NDA for this entity to carry out its mandate where the people live, and I must
indicate that we have asked the NDA to also find creative means of fundraising from other development agencies and all other people who can be able to put in more money. The programme deliverables during 2023-24 ... As I conclude, Chairperson, I just want to indicate that ...

... yonke le mali engiyibalayo ...


 ... goes towards comprehensive social security and administration, welfare policy development and implementation and support, Sassa and the NDA.


Ngicela ukubonga ngokuthi ngibonge ngokunikezwa ithuba. Ngibonge futhi nalabo engisebenzisana kahle nabo ...


 ... in all the departments and the private sector too. Together we can do and build a better South Africa.
Mr E Z NJADU: Good afternoon hon Chairperson, let me acknowledge the Minister and Deputy Minister, MECs, all members of the NCOP...


 ...ndibulise oomama noomakhulu abalapha namhlanje kwaye siyabulela kakhulu ukuba nibelapha.

Budget Vote 19 is protecting the wellbeing of the poor and vulnerable through the comprehensive social security system. South Africans remain vulnerable to the country’ triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality. In accordance with its 2023/24 deliverables, the Department of Social Development is committed to strengthening mechanisms that seek to protect the wellbeing of the poor and vulnerable through a comprehensive social security system by administering various relief and empowerment programmes which seek to reduce poverty and inequality and build a united and prosperous country for all.

South Africa has a significant number of people living in poverty which makes them vulnerable to socioeconomic risks such as unemployment, abuse, exploitation and crime. However,
through a comprehensive social security programme, the Department of Social Development is able to provide a safety net that helps reduce poverty by supporting those in need with economic relief which will afford them basic necessities to live dignified lives.

Currently the system protects a total number of Child Support Grant beneficiaries at 13,4 million, the total number of Disability Grant beneficiaries at 1,1 million, the total number of Foster Care Grant beneficiaries over 246 000, to mention some of the grant programmes.

By resolving socioeconomic inequities, a well-implemented social security system can help people break away from the cycle of poverty and promotes social cohesion and inclusion. A robust social security strategy can boost South Africa’s economy through promoting social mobility and creating a productive workforce that is ready to work and can contribute to businesses and the economy through their buying power.

A comprehensive social security system goes beyond simply providing an income to people but rather also encompasses programmes and activities that promote human development, such as skill development, educational empowerment, and healthcare
services. Central to social transformation is the empowerment of the people for self-liberation. Transition grant recipients to sustainable economic activities should be the hallmark of our comprehensive social security system as part of realising the constitutional commitment of freeing the potential of all South Africans.

Our comprehensive social security system should brake the poverty trap, and since the democratic government we have observed that social interventions have contributed in breaking the cycle of poverty. The Department of Social Development has made strides in the distribution of numerous grants, which have had a substantial socioeconomic impact in decreasing poverty and inequality, such as the Child Support, Old Age Persons, Disability and Foster Child Grants. These grants have played a critical role in lowering poverty levels by assisting millions of individuals and households to meet their basic needs and enhance their quality of life.

The impact of grants goes beyond immediate financial relief but also helps to reduce inequality and help bridge the socioeconomic divide by giving targeted assistance to the underprivileged.
While the Department of Social Development’s grant programme has helped to reduce poverty and inequality, it is crucial to recognize that challenges and gaps remain. It is imperative that we continue to invest in improved and efficient ways of administering grants and improving accountability. This will ensure that the programme realizes its objectives and improves the lives of many South Africans.

Implementing a Basic Income Grant offers a safety net for people who are unable to find work by providing a consistent and dependable source of income. The government can help them meet basic needs, improve living conditions, and alleviate financial hardships for the recipients and their families.

Despite there being challenges around the administration of the Basic Income Grant, funding, monitoring and evaluation, the advancement of a sustainable social protection system through the Basic Income Grant in South Africa has the potential to make significant strides in reducing poverty, promoting equality, stimulating the economy, and empowering individuals. Extensive consultations and collaboration with relevant stakeholders are essential for an effective and sustainable execution of the programme.
The effects of Covid-19 worsened an already dire situation by crippling the economic through stringent regulations which limited economic activities from all sectors of society and thus increasing job loss and unemployment. Government’s response through the Social Relief of Distress provided a safety net for the vulnerable through initiatives which sought to provide financial relief and minimize the impact of the restrictions brought about by Covid-19 and the country’ slow economic growth and employment rate.

According to research conducted in the Development Policy Research Unit, DPRU based in the School of Economics at the University of Cape Town, UCT, by Professor Haroon Bhorat, 2021, titled, Can Cash Transfers Aid Labour Market Recovery? Evidence from South Africa’s Special COVID-19 Grant, findings indicate that Covid-19 Social Relief of Distress grants brought millions of previously unreached adults into the system, and that the grant was relatively well targeted with close to 60% of recipients being non-employed, and the remainder mostly being informally employed.

In their multivariate modelling, found that the chronic non- employed were 51% more likely to receive the grant relative to other groups. It is therefore critical that we view social
protection as a critical imperative for poverty eradication and fighting unemployment. It must be developmental and should be understood in that context. Furthermore, the research sought to estimate the causal effect of COVID-19 grant receipt on labour market outcomes among the non-employed with the findings that, the COVID-19 grant is distinct in South Africa’s social assistance system, given that it is the first grant in the country to target the unemployed.

Our preferred estimate suggests that receipt of the COVID-19 grant increased the probability of job search by more than 25%. Although the Social Relief of Distress programme has shown great positive results, there are significant challenges, such as problems with targeting beneficiaries, accessibility of the service and grant duration. In order for the programme to be more impactful and assist its intended beneficiaries, it is necessary to evaluate long-term sustainable programmes such as the Basic Income Grant.

Cash payments serve as a vehicle for redistribution have played a vital role in assisting to addressing economic disparity, stimulating local economies, reducing poverty and improving the building of a more economically inclusive society. We need to also leverage cash payment to transform
the financial sector through support financial technology innovations and digital banks. We need to ensure that our small businesses and local enterprises can have innovative systems to be distributors of cash payment. This will assist in addressing the concentration of key retail enterprises who receive a significant spend from cash payments.

Though cash payments have a positive impact, the programme has the potential to be improved to maximize its impact through improved mechanisms for administering and managing the programme, beneficiary identification, and the development of programmes that seek to improve recipients’ financial management skills. These help to ensure that payments reach their intended beneficiaries and that they get the information they need to make informed economic decisions. The ANC supports vote 19. Thank you very much Chair.

Ms D C CHRISTIANS: Hon Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister and fellow South Africans, good day. Just before I start, I would like to extend our heartfelt condolences to the grieving family and friends and colleagues of hon Tina Joemat. May they find strength, solace and support during this incredible difficult time. Our heartfelt condolences to the ANC and her colleagues.
The role of the Department of Social Development in providing crucial support and assistance to those in need has never been more vital than today. However, it is evident that the department is falling desperately short of their responsibilities, and the consequences of this shortfall are being felt by the most vulnerable members of our society. We should all be deeply concerned about the state of social services in our country. South Africa is facing a multitude of challenges and experiencing a pervasive sense of pessimism and distress. The time for decisive action by South Africans is now.

One of the key responsibilities of the Department of Social Development is to implement the National Strategic Plan to eradicate gender-based violence and femicide. However, the sad reality, Minister, is that gender-based violence and femicide victims continue to suffer, losing hope that the government will ever protect them. Gender-based violence and femicide continue to escalate, leaving victims hopeless and disillusioned. The budget cuts imposed on nonprofit organisations further exacerbate the problem, as these organisations provide valuable services to support and protect these victims.
It is unacceptable that one woman is raped every three hours in South Africa. Furthermore, it is nauseating that South Africa is regarded as the rape capital of the world. We must create safe environments for victims to report incidents of violence and abuse, ensuring that they receive the necessary empathy, care, and justice without judgment. The Department of Social Services together with sister departments have failed to take decisive action and create safe environments where victims can report incidents without fear of judgement or further harm.

Furthermore, the recent restructuring of the department’s budget threatens the well-being of thousands of individuals who depend on nonprofit organisations, NPOs, abused and vulnerable children in care as well as vital human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, and acquired immunodeficiency syndrome, Aids, services. The department only spent 66,8% of their HIV and Aids budget which implies that the funds designated for critical HIV and Aids awareness programmes were left untouched, this despite their desperate need.
Disturbingly, the country continues to be ravaged by the HIV and Aids highlighting the urgency for effective utilisation of these resources.
As the Minister rightfully said, our children are suffering. There are 2,9 million orphaned children in the system with no comprehensive legal solution to their plight. The growing crises in the child sector, including orphaned and abandoned children, malnutrition, and the escalation of drug abuse, demand our immediate attention. We need more social workers. The department recently reported in the select committee that more than 55 000 social workers were needed. Yet, the department only has 22 000 in the system and thousands of social workers are currently at home unemployed. This is a far cry from the National Development Plan, NDP, target and not nearly enough funds are allocated towards addressing this deficit by 2030. It is unacceptable that children as young as nine are falling victim to drug abuse and that the well-being of our future generation is at risk. The reduction of the community development programme further exacerbates these challenges.

Minister, the recent chaos surrounding the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, card renewals and the malfunctioning systems have left millions of South Africans in despair. The SA Post Office and Postbank, entities that are meant to support our most vulnerable, have failed to meet their responsibilities. This is unacceptable. We need a system that is efficient,
reliable, and accessible to all, regardless of their location or age. Additionally, the department must tackle the issue of fraud and corruption within the department, which only serves to further cripple its ability to provide effective social relief.

The Minister has also made note of the high unemployment rate in our country, and this further exacerbates the previous challenges mentioned. Unemployment has left millions without hope and dignity. The ruling party, who promised a better life for all, has failed to create the jobs necessary to restore the prosperity and well-being of our people. It is disheartening to witness an expanded unemployment rate of 42,6%. We cannot continue to turn a blind eye to the struggles of more than 22 million South Africans searching desperately for employment opportunities.

The Financial and Fiscal Commission has rightly highlighted the challenges posed by the rising food costs and the overall increase in the cost of living, which directly impact our households. The Financial and Fiscal Commission, FFC, has recommended the urgent finalisation of sustainable and permanent support for unemployed individuals aged between 18 and 59. It is crucial to address this matter promptly,
especially considering that the value of the Social Relief of Distress, SRD, grant has remained unchanged since its inception.

The issue of hunger and poverty cannot be ignored. More than

18 million people in our country are living in poverty, struggling to meet their basic needs. The department has no comprehensive plans to address this issue and provide relief to those in need. Social assistance grants must be increased according to inflation rates to ensure that South Africans can lead dignified lives.

The ANC’s repeated promises of unity, renewal, and decisive action for the betterment of the people, it is evident that these pledges have lost their impact after being reiterated countless times over the past three decades. The familiar echoes of these assurances resemble an old broken record, as they resurface during every single election period, leaving us questioning their authenticity and timeliness.

My fellow South Africans, it is time for a democratic revolution at the polls. The ANC government’s time is up. It is time for a government that will prioritise the restoration of dignity, the creation of jobs, and the alleviation of
poverty. The Democratic Alliance is committed to addressing these pressing issues and ensuring a brighter future for all as is evident everywhere we govern. When we are elected in the 2024 elections, when the moonshot pact is brought into action, we will make sure that social grants are timeously and effectively paid, ensuring that our most vulnerable citizens receive the support they deserve. We will tackle crime, drug abuse head-on, ensuring the safety and security of our communities. Sufficient resources will be allocated to employ an adequate number of social workers, ensuring that their valuable work can reach those in need. We will restore the dignity of our people in South Africa, that will be our core mission. I thank you.

Ms B FANTA (Eastern Cape): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Minister and Deputy Minister, MECs of Social Development present here today, hon members, our social partners and guests collected from various media platforms, I greet you all.


Ndithi bhotani. Molweni.


I rise here on behalf of the Eastern Cape government to support and affirm the budget as outlined by the Minister...

 ...umama uLindiwe Zulu. Kwakhona, masidlulise uvelwano olunzulu kusapho lohloniphekile uJoematt-Petterson, sisithi...


 ... may her revolutionary soul rest in peace. This debate takes place at a time when we are commemorating Youth Month, a sector that has been hard hit by a plethora of challenges including poverty, unemployment and inequality. This sector needs special focus, particularly given the escalating social ills of substance abuse, violence and other social crimes in our communities.


Kodwa eli sebe likhokelwa nguwe mama uZulu, endithi xa ndilibiza yindoda kubahlolokazi, ngumesuli weenyeembezi kumehlo alilayo, nguyise weenkedama, yindoda kubahlolokazi nyani.

The levels of unemployment have increased for years and thus have further deepened and compounded one of the greatest threats to the development of communities, which is poverty. This continues to call on all of us both in the public and private sector to hold hands in the effort to help our communities out of this mission.

We are also witnessing an increase in the number of violent crimes such as murder in the Eastern Cape especially in Gqebera. These cruel acts are taking place in communities that have been at peace for quite some time which is an indication of serious demons that seem to be engulfing communities. The crime statistics as presented by the SA Police Service indicate an upward trajectory in the Eastern Cape in particular, an indication of unsafe communities and a need of strengthening basic social values.

Hon members, this budget is tabled here today as we are concluding the business of the Sixth Administration.


Yiloo nto sikhawulezisa ukuya ebantwini, ukuqinisekisa ukuba amaphulo esiwenzele ukuphucula ubomi babantu bakuthi, ingakumbi abangathathi ntweni, awangomampunge koko, athetha,
achukumise ncakasana kwimeko yobomi babo kwiphulo lobomi obungcono elikhokelwa ngumbutho wesizwe.

Chairperson, the challenges facing the Eastern Cape continue to be multifaceted but in the main they are as follows: High unemployment and job losses in the province, increasing reports of social ills and distress in the province owing to challenges at family and community level, issues such violence, drugs and substance abuse and child neglect and malnutrition, social exclusion and social ills hamper economic and social growth, women at the periphery of socioeconomic space, vastly increasing vulnerability and food insecurity among households due to the COVID-19 pandemic, fragile state of social cohesion and escalating levels of crime and social violence.

Flowing from the 2019-2024 Medium Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, the Eastern Cape Department of Social Development adopted eight priorities to realize the MTSF as follows: Strengthening the provision of child care and protection, strengthening prevention and early intervention programmes on gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF, improving sustainable community development interventions, enhancing the
participation, mainstreaming and empowerment of all our vulnerable groups, the persons with disabilities, youth and women development growing and strengthening of the non-profit organisations, NPO, sector through improving monitoring and management, reducing the rate of unemployed social workers, strengthening district operations to be hubs of service delivery and development in line with the district development model, building a capable, ethical, and developmental state for effective service delivery

With these 8 priorities, we seek to advance the realization of the department’s vision of a caring and self-reliant society through the promotion and protection of quality and sustainable livelihoods of the poor, vulnerable and marginalized groups in order to deal with social ills such as GBVF, poverty, child abuse, substance abuse, food insecurity, crime, HIV/Aids and other hostile social disorders.

Chairperson, in appreciating the budget vote tabled here today, in the same vain, we want to applaud the department for the prioritization of the appointment of social services practitioners this financial year. As a province, we must acknowledge that we still have a high number of unemployed social work graduates. This is a serious concern in light of
the prevailing social ills and foster care backlogs. Furthermore, the budget for the compensation of employees has declined significantly over the years which makes it difficult to absorb social work graduates that have been funded by the government. However, in the current financial year, we will be employing 200 social workers within the available budget means.

In addition, social worker safety is one of the priority areas for the province. We have dealt with a number of social workers who have been robbed and victims of robbery while serving in areas such as Gqeberha in the Eastern Cape. Social workers provide services in an increasingly complex, dynamic social environment, and their client base is diverse. In collaboration with the South African Police Service, ward councillors and community forums, we have succeeded in reducing the number of robberies of our SSPs as we strive to create a conducive working environment for them.

Chairperson, the importance of partnerships between the government and the NPO sector in the pursuit of the common goal of building a better life for all our people cannot be overemphasised. As the only organisation that respects NPOs because we know where we are coming from with NPOs. We are
free because of them. They played an important role when many of us who are making noise today was not for us and were against us, but these NPOs have managed to get us to where we are now.

In the same vein, allow me, to acknowledge the important contribution of NPOs in the struggle against colonial oppression and apartheid. Hence we respect them. As a country, we long had been a vibrant non-profit organisation that provided important frontline services to help meet the needs of those involved in the liberation struggle and the destitute.


Nalapha ngoku sesinabantu abangathi bazixabise kakhulu. Babona...

... all the efforts that we are doing.



Thina siya...

 ... as the ANC-led government and we respect those NPOs. As a department, we endeavour to improve service delivery excellence, focusing on the NPO sector, which is central to our service delivery model, as well as the welfare sector. We appreciate the immeasurable contribution NPOs make in ensuring service delivery and the social protection of the vulnerable and marginalized in our communities. Thus, we strive to significantly improve on the payment of subsidies to NPOs.

The department has been working hard to remedy delays in the payment of NPOs in the interest of service delivery and our endeavours are bearing fruits. The department has further prioritised the growing and strengthening of the NPO sector through improving monitoring and management. In realising this, the strengthening of the NPO sector requires the department, in the long term to focus on transformational issues by broadening the base by bringing in new entrants specifically in historically disadvantaged areas.

Hon members, the Extended Public Works programme constitutes an important strategy for addressing youth unemployment.
During the past four years, the department has created more than 15 000 work opportunities, 70% of which were created in
the NPO sector in the areas of early childhood development etc.

Chairperson, in view of the escalating incidences of violence against women, we welcome the intervention and the commitment by the department and its agencies the National Development Agency, NDA, South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, etc. A greater focus has been made on family strengthening as a proactive, preventative measure and secondary intervention in our communities... [Time Expired.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, your time has expired. Thank you very much, hon Fanta. We will give you a few seconds or minutes, but we cannot give you much, because we have a very long day ahead of us.

Before we continue, I have been requested by the Chief Whip to introduce to you the delegation from the Women’s Caucus of the Parliament of Ethiopia that has visited us under the leadership of the Deputy Speaker of the Parliament of Ethiopia. You are most welcome to the National Council of Provinces. The delegation may be excused if they are pressed for time. Thank you.
Mr M S MOLETSANE: Deputy Chairperson, let me start first by passing condolences to the family of Ms Tina Joemat- Petterssen. Deputy Chairperson, this year marks a very important milestone in the politics of South Africa and the working class struggle. This year marks 10 years since the formation of the EFF, the only radical and militant economic emancipation movement that brings together the progressive forces on a mission of economic freedom in our lifetime.

As we celebrate our 10th-year anniversary this year, we call upon all South Africans to donate to their giant organisation –whether you like it or nor - to donate. You simply need to SMS, “EFF Donation”, to 42 191 or go to effonlinedonation.org. If you are not interested, just don’t listen!

On our tenth year, Deputy Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budget Vote debate for Social Development. We reject the budget of the department that has failed to fulfill its own mandate to improve the lives and, care for poor and vulnerable people, by reducing the level of poverty, inequality, vulnerability and social ills. They failed to provide a social security system that uplifts our people out of poverty.
Deputy Chairperson, this Minister continues to undermine the poor by giving them R350 SDR grant that amounts to R9 a day, which is simply not enough. This department has made no attempts at implementing a universal basic income grant, despite various calls for it. Instead, it celebrates
18 million South Africans receiving social grants, with

another 11 million people relying on R350 grant, which does very little to meet the needs of our people.

The EFF rejects the proposed budget for the Department of Social Development because it does not make provision for increases or work towards implementation of the universal basic income grant, despite the EFF’s calls for these increases. It has failed in empowering individuals, families and our poor communities. This department’s mission is to transform society by building conscious and capable citizens through the provision of comprehensive, integrated and sustainable social development services.

Social factors, such as healthcare, education and transportation, which play a vital role in the economic development of our people, is lacking in our township and rural communities. In all the suffering and torment: The price of food has gone up; the price of transport has gone up; there
is no reliable electricity; and crime, including violent crime, has gone up!

This department is known for corruption and no accountability. Till today, we have not seen anyone being arrested and put in jail for fraud and corruption within the department. This Minister still has no clear plan in addressing the shortage of social workers in this country. This, while we have social work graduates sitting at home unemployed, etc.

The Sassa crisis seems to be an everyday issue. It is shocking that the ruling party will celebrate that 31% of South Africans rely on social grants. If we add the Covid-19 Social Relief Grant, this number is nearly 50%. This is the scale of the failure of the ruling class, and this is the failure they celebrate every year when they table the proposed Social Development budget. We know that for the cronies, the celebration is not about feeding millions of poor people; the celebration is about transactions and contracts out of social grant administration.

Deputy Chairperson, this department is not paying enough attention to the GBV victims, especially in rural areas and the issues around place of safety for rape victims, as well as
place of safety for women and children in rural areas, remain biggest challenges. This is why they refuse to create a state- owned bank. This is why they have now announced that social grants will no longer be paid out through the SA Post Office. The intention was never to build a long-term relationship with the SA Post Office. Instead, it is banks that must benefit. It is for these reasons that the EFF rejects this Budget Vote for Social Development.


Ke a leboha mme!





Mmusakgotla, ke dumedise le, ...


... the Minister of Social Development, ...


... Ke dumedise botlhe ba ba kopaneng gompieno.

Can I also stand on the protocols as outlined by the chairperson. Let me firstly indicate that this is obviously the last budget, I hope, of this particular administration. So, allow me to just touch on a few things that I think it’s important that as we speak about Social Development, we actually not equate it to grants, because this department is more than that. Let me also indicate that we do a lot. Unless you are exposed to our work, which I know you are, you would forever think ... Yes, Sassa is intended to pay the grants.
So, you are quite correct, hon member, very soon we will be paying our own grants. That is why Sassa was established.

Let me continue by saying that on the issues of HIV and AIDS, we continue to roll out the infrastructure based in rural communities. Hon member, by the end of the year, we would have completed the Community Care Centres. The three remaining in the province of Limpopo, which forms the 17 very big structures funded in partnership with the German Development Bank. I need to also indicate that this is a comprehensive infrastructure that the department has organised. In there you will find, obviously the luncheon clubs for older persons, and Early Childhood Development Centre, you will also find a lecture rooms, an amphitheatre, safe play areas, as we know
children can’t play anymore because of how we treat them. But also, you will find a whole lot of an administration block that enables people who are in those areas to be able to ...

The National Strategic Plan on HIV and AIDS 2023 to 2028 would like to say that as the department, we have managed to elevate goal one, which is the social and structural drivers of HIV and AIDS. Amongst that, is the issue around gender-based violence and femicide. I need to also indicate that victim empowerment services are being improved. The aspirations of this government is not actually to be building more and more shelters, but just to get the men to be the ones that must leave their house and go find wherever to go. Because it is very unfair that women are the ones that are forever running, and when they run, they run with children. So maybe we need to make sure that the hon member from the EFF, if we can borrow your military aspects to assist us to get the men in line, that will be very useful. We invite you to please assist us with that one and hold South African men accountable.

Let me also just indicate that on issues of disability in the previous years, you would be aware that disability and the rights of persons with disabilities has moved to the Presidency, but services to persons with disabilities remains
with the Department of Social Development. We are humbly requesting the members of the NCOP to join us as we are rolling out public hearings in provinces so that you are able to make inputs into the services of persons with disabilities, because that’s important. It’s also important for your communities. Please join us as we solicit inputs into that particular Bill.

We also like to extend our sincere thanks and appreciation to United States Agency for International Development, USAID, that continues to support us and making it possible for us to implement our Social Behaviour Change Programme, your ChommY, your You Only Live Once, YOLO, and your YOLO families matters, a Community Capacity Enhancement Programme, which we call a Compendium. It doesn’t matter hon members how many speeches, workshops we are going to make, but if the family is what it is today, we can just all pack our bags and go home.

On issues of alcohol and substance abuse, it’s important for us to note that when we engage children, which is a very concerning problem, children meet alcohol no longer in the taverns, no longer at school, no longer in the streets, children are introduced to alcohol in the home by their parents. Now the question is, must we now go straight into the
houses and really now start protecting children in their homes? I don’t know hon members. But what I know is that I hope you will assist us.

We have reached more than 4 million children with ChommY Programme, which is dialogues, and children say the same thing. My mom introduced me to alcohol. My dad said I must taste. While I’m talking about issues of children, we also want to make a plea to women. It is becoming a serious challenge for children that children are denied the opportunity to know their fathers, and we do that, obviously I am angry because he left me. But can we find a way of managing our own challenges? We are raising very angry children, and if these children, we are not finding a way of sorting that out, we are not going to be able to address any of our social crimes because an angry boy becomes an angry husband. Let us look into that.

We also want to thank the men of South Africa that stood up and said, not in my name. As well as the boys that are ready to champion change. We know that if we invest in the boy child, we will have a very better man. Our headaches, yoh! Hon members, our headache is South African men. If I could, I would auction them, but I just don’t know to who. I don’t know
if I will get anything, but maybe if I can try, I will succeed.

We continue to renovate the shelters that the hon members ... we continue to make the shelters comfortable for women. Allow me to also say that we continue to come up with innovative ideas that we are utilising to create jobs. one of those is the space of recycling, and we at Social Development say, food for waste. We want South Africans to understand that recycling is next mine. It’s the next diamond. It’s the next platinum, and we want to make sure that as we clean our communities and our environments, we don’t just clean, but there is money in our pockets. So, ka-ching guys. Let’s start pushing each other for that particular debt that we skip and cross over.

Let us also take seriously, the issues around Alzheimer's and dementia. It’s better to invest in your old age right now because I can assure you, each one of us, if you plan to live beyond the age of 65, you are going to have one disability or the other, guaranteed. So, the manner in which we treat disabled people, it requires you to start thinking by investing in your own future. This leads to the killing of older persons. But it also leads to their own children not understanding because you are angry, you are upset, you can’t
recognise them, you don’t know who you are, you don’t know anything around you. Your world stopped the day dementia and Alzheimer's arrived. At that time, you are at the time where you get what? You are a witch. You are all this that you have never been, and that you have never even dreamed about.

To women of South Africa, as much as we talk about alcohol, we also have a responsibility.


Hheyi, makhosikazi siyaphuza bandla. Hhayi, siyaphuza bandla. Besizicelela nje.


Wa itse ka mohau. Batswana ba buile.



Fetal alcohol syndrome. Ladies don’t steal your children’s future before they are even born because that is unreversible. If you choose to really drink, eish! sterilisation free [Mahala] Just choose the bottle or bringing life. But we can’t continue the way we are going. It is unfair on children, and as the custodian of the rights of children, I don’t really find it funny anymore.
On issues of drugs, we have launched the South African network for people who use drugs. But we are rolling out harm reduction services that are community based. It is important, hon members, for us to invest in understanding harm reduction because I know that as we roll it out, it will be some of us that will be saying, yes, Department of Social Development is encouraging our children to use drugs because they will be going to ask to exchange the dirty needles with the clean needles, instead of us understanding the realities and the complexities that comes with being a recovering addict.

But let’s also understand that rehabilitation is an enabler. You never recover after you have used drugs. Even a simple cough mixture when you have the flu, takes you back to using drugs. Let us be supportive. Let us deal with issues of stigma. Nyaope has never been pregnant. It can never be called. Your whatever names you call people who use drugs, we are all drug users in waiting. Nobody plans to use drugs and it is your child today and my child tomorrow. Let us also find a way of remaining and calling them who they are, and not give them nyaope boys, paras, whoonga, and all the names because it is what makes it difficult for them to access services.
As I conclude, allow me to also thank team Deputy Minister for their hard work because it is very difficult to be a Deputy Minister whose visually impaired. The world has still not understood what access is, but inclusion is the pain, the stress that goes with them serving me in making it possible for me. To my family, and for and for my kids, we are in the majority. Everybody is visually impaired in my house. So, everything we do, we do it the visually impaired way. To my husband who lends me his eyes every time I have to do my work, I appreciate you, I thank you. I thank the Minister, the DG with all his team, thank you very much. I know very well that I’m not an easy person to work with, but it’s all in a day’s work. Thank you.


Mnr S F DU TOIT: Agb Voorsitter, ...

... I would like to start off by reacting to the Deputy Minister Bogopane-Zulu’s statement that all men are the problem and the biggest problem. Deputy Minister, I need to make it clear, you must not generalise. There are men that you do not know and men that are of good quality. So, please, don’t go there.

Die ANC het vandag, soos soveel keer in die verlede daarmee gespog, dat hulle die pioniers van maatskaplike ondersteuning in Suid-Afrika is.


The department proclaimed with pride, that their task is to develop and monitor the implementation of social policy that both creates an enabling environment for and leads to the reduction of poverty. But minority groups are being discriminated against in this country and the department is failing in its mandate. We do not experience this enabling environment.

Furthermore, they say that they ensure the provision of social protection and social welfare services to all the people who live in our land. We appreciate that.


Die ANC het vandag daarmee gespog dat die regering tans aan sowat 29 miljoen persone in Suid-Afrika, maandeliks, een of ander maatskaplike toelaag betaal.

Mr Ramaphosa indicated that 18 million South Africans receive state welfare grants with another 11 million relying on the state’s R350 grant that are paid out. Currently, 29 million individuals receive social grants on a monthly basis, with only 7 4 million taxpayers that needs to fund this Bill. To some, it may sound like an achievement, but, in fact, it is a shame.

It is a shame, because this government, through legislation and policies, are restricting economic growth, that contributes to greater poverty.

Die regering wend nie daadwerklike pogings aan om armoede en werkloosheid in Suid-Afrika te verlig nie, maar sit dag na dag en kyk hoe om meer en groter toelaes uit te betaal soos die Minister vroeër uitgelig het. Moontlik is dit deel van hul verkiesings-strategie. Wie sal weet? Indien hul wel vir Suid- Afrikaners omgegee het, sou hul eerder armoede op die regte manier verminder en verlig het.

Selfs die finansieële adviseurs, wat deur Mnr. Ramaphosa aangestel is, het hom teen die implimentering van ’n basiese
inkomstetoelaag gewaarsku, aangesien dit die land se finansiële maalkolk kan vererger.

We don’t deny that people in need, needs assistance. The fact is, that government is keeping people dependent and making even more people dependent through the economic situation that South Africa currently finds itself in. As Magret Thatcher stated: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.”


Na die verskroeide aarde-beleid, het Afrikanervroue nie in rye voor die regeringskantore gaan sit nie; hulle het met moeite na hul erwe en verbrande plase teruggekeer, en as en roet gekrap, om te bou, en op te hef. Hulle het opgestaan en gewys dat hulle self die verandering sal wees en nie gereduseer sou word tot ’n geëtiketeerde volk, wat ’n slagoffers van die Britte sou bly nie.

Die roet en stof was realiteite, die honger en dors was realiteite, maar hulle het nie toegelaat dat dit hul as ondergeskiktes definieëer nie. Net so leef die legendariese
durf en strewe na oorlewing en welwillendheid vandag in ons are voort.

Inisiatiewe soos Emmers vol hoop, Boks vir ’n boervrou en boere-droogtehulp bring verligting. Dit kom uit gemeenskappe, vir gemeenskappe. Die skooltassie en kosblikprojekte laat kindergesiggies op.

Die ANC moet kennis neem dat Suid-Afrikaners nie vir lank hierdie onderdrukking en verarming, wat hul tans ervaar, sal verdra nie. Die jaar 2024 is besig om stadig nader te kruip en die mense se geduld raak min.

Suid Afrika, die ANC kan ons ligte afsit, die brandstofprys verhoog, kospryse laat opjaag en werksgeleenthede beperk, maar hy sal nie ons mensewees, ons passie, ons oorlewingsdrange en welwillendheidshart van ons weg vat nie.

Hy kan ons probeer etiketeer, ons vryhede inperk en ons blameer vir als wat in hierdie land verkeerd loop, maar hy kan nie ons geloof in God, o ns trots en waardes steel nie. Wees wie jy is, leef volheid, bepaal jou eie toekoms. Registreer en stem VF Plus in 2024. Dankie.
Mr M R BARA: Hon Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, fellow South Africans, let me also join others in passing my sincere condolences on the passing of Ms Patterson. May her soul rest in peace. Social development is commonly understood to encompass a set of intentions comprising of equity and social justice, which could integrate additional intentions, including social inclusion, sustainable livelihoods, gender equity, increased voice and participation.

Social development is about improving the wellbeing of every individual in society, so they can reach their full potential. The success of the society is linked to the wellbeing of each and every citizen. Therefore, social development is the cornerstone of every country, the wellbeing of its citizens solely lies on the shoulders of this department. Social development therefore means investing in people and as things currently stand, the ANC seems to be investing poorly. More needs to be done in this regard.

South Africa’s unemployment rate currently stands at 32,9%, with an even more concerning youth unemployment rate of 63,9% for those aged 15 to 24 and 42,1% for those 25 to 34 years.
That leaves a lot to be done by this department.
Corruption, mismanagement in government, insufficient infrastructure, poverty, high unemployment, violent crimes and poor service delivery are significantly the issues affecting social development. Weak structural growth and the Covid-19 pandemic have exacerbated socioeconomic challenges. Let us do our best to clean up this system, to get those who are defrauding the state.

Civil society has always played a significant role at every level, to bridge the gap between government and communities. Changes in the budget allocation for these key role-players will significantly have a negative impact on a larger scale.

In a country that is still dealing with the aftermath of Covid-19 that has caused a massive rise in mental health, teenage pregnancy, HIV infection, gender-based violence and socioeconomic challenges, surely, these issues will not be
properly financially addressed, amidst the significant changes in allocation to the two sub programmes - project management and HIV and Aids.

The recent crisis of Sassa expired cards requires urgent attention and needs to be addressed with immediate effect for a longer duration, so that it doesn’t cause the panic that it
created among the beneficiaries. Permanent alternatives must be sought where Post Bank is unable to provide services to grant recipients.

Every month, vulnerable South Africans struggle to access their grants, due to technical glitches, systems crashes, and changes in grant qualifications requirements. Millions of South Africans rely on these grants to support their families, and every month there is uncertainty on whether their grants will be disbursed and accessed on time. This has left many pensioners waiting for their disbursements for longer period.

We note with great concern that Sassa is running out of funds in some areas of the Eastern Cape, leaving the elderly who travelled long distances, to sleep at the pay point overnight.

The closure of numerous post offices has left more communities stranded and in dire need of obtaining their social grants.
The entire community of Mitchells Plain, a population 310 000, does not have a single post office, all closed over inability to pay rent.

There is information doing the rounds, claiming that some of the 760 000 graduates searing for a job are forced to queue
for the R350 grant. This confirms the fact that there needs to be a drive to create jobs and economic entrepreneurship opportunity.

I know this extends beyond social development, but it affects the department. This will also ease the budgetary pressure on the department.

We welcome the work being done in the Fundraising Amendment Bill that is currently with the select committee. It is now in the process of public hearings in different provinces. As the DA, we would like to see the Child Support Grant extended to learners older than 18, as long as they are still at school.
Beyond that, we would the extension to pregnant mothers for better access to nutritious food for their unborn babies.

Minister, this department is an integral part of our society during and post Covid-19 as we have seen the trauma caused by the pandemic. This department has a burden to mother the orphans and vulnerable children caused by the pandemic, it has the responsibility to provide hope to the hopeless with mental support and forging a stable pathway through all the darkness we have endured.
This department has an obligation to lessen the burden by all means possible. Therefore, it is time to deliver a service that will give South Africans hope, as enshrined in the Constitution of our beautiful country. The right to dignity, right to security and identity is preserved in a stable social environment. We owe it to South Africans to deliver on this. I thank you.

Nksz N NDONGENI: Sihlalo weBhunga leSizwe lamaPhondo, uSekela Sihlalo weBhunga leSizwe lamaPhondo umama uLucas, uMbhexeshi oyiNtloko weBhunga leSizwe laMaphondo, amalungu ahloniphekileyo, aBaphathiswa nooSekela Baphathiswa, abaPhathiswa bamaPhondo abakhoyo apha kule Ndlu nabakunye nathi ngobuxhakaxhaka, kunye nabo bonke abantu abalapha abeze kusibukela kuquka neendwendwe zethu ezisibukeleyo, ndithi molweni emva kwemini nje.


South Africa belongs to all of its citizens, and we all have a responsibility to shape our destiny. It remains our common goal to make South Africa a better place to live in. The National Development Plan as a strategy to unite South Africans creates a shared vision to unleash their energies and
inclusive economy, build capabilities, improve the state’s capacity, and have leaders collaborating to solve complex problems in order to eradicate poverty, fight unemployment and reduce inequality by 2030.

Our country has successfully transitioned from apartheid to democracy. We have established democratic institutions, modernised the public sector, expanded access to essential services, stabilised the economy, and established ourselves as legitimate members of the international community. Despite these achievements, there are some shortfalls when it comes to totally eradicating poverty. However, our government has managed to successfully implement social security to make sure that there is no family that goes to bed hungry. Such social security includes the Child Support Grant, Foster Care Grant, Old Age Pension Grant, Disability Grant and War Veteran’s Grant.


Ilungu elihloniphekileyo elisuka apha hayi lo unguBhele wasekhaya ilungu elihloniphekileyo uChristians uthi, baza kuthi xa bethe baphatha, andiyazi ke le nto baza kuyitshintsha kuba kaloku yi-ANC eyathi yatshintsha ukuze kufumeneke ezi zibonelelo. Bona babebanika ngonyangantathu oomakhulu
notatomkhulu, phofu bengabaniki imali yokuba ibancede. Namhlanje uthi xa benokuphatha, andiyazi ke ukuba baza kuphatha xa bephi na. Mandigqithe kea pho Sihlalo.


The issue of unemployment remains a key challenge in our country and it has got a traceable linkage to the alcohol abuse, drugs, bullying, gender-based violence, GBV and femicide. However, this does not suggest that it is only the unemployed who are the perpetrators of GBV and femicide in our society. We must do more to enhance our future, building on the nation’s combined triumphs and failings. South Africa will not be able to successfully eliminate poverty and reduce inequality if we do not work together to fight the social ills. Faster development, more action, and better execution are urgently needed from all stakeholders in our societies and our country at large.

All South Africans must work together to make the future a success because it belongs to all of us. The realisation of the kind of society that we envisaged in the Freedom Charter requires all individuals to participate actively in the fight against alcohol abuse, drugs, bullying, GBV and femicide. The family is the first and most fundamental unit of society, thus
socialisation begins there. Therefore, family is crucial to a child’s moral development as well as their social, spiritual, emotional, and cognitive growth. The family lays the ground for a person’s growth and pleasure as well as for the cohesion and advancement of society.

The family, which serves as a microcosm of humanity, is a crucial institution for promoting peace by fostering characteristics like love, unity, compassion, justice, respect, and loyalty. In order to have prosperity, the peace in our communities and the rest of the world are directly impacted by the attitudes and actions that children acquire in the home. The family which is the foundation of human society, provides a setting for the growth of good morals and fundamental abilities. Our society is confronted with a social and moral crisis in some regards, and societies frequently disregard the importance of balancing individual and societal needs as well as reconciling the individual interest with the common goal.

The habits and patterns of conduct nurtured in the home era are carried into the workplace, into the social and political life of the country, and our societies are characterised by social and moral crisis. Character development, the formation
of moral and spiritual attitudes and learning to serve the common good all take place in the family. It is also in the home that tolerance, peace, and social responsibility can be introduced and taught. All parents have a responsibility to do everything in their power to secure their children’s upbringing and to provide them with the skills they need to live developmental lives of service to their nation, and all of humanity.

Fostering a supportive and positive family environment based on love is necessary. This means putting an end to all prejudice, rejecting backbiting outright, emphasising the necessity of humanity’s unity, and instilling a culture of selfless service. Education is necessary for promoting peace begins in the home where children are taught about the inherent equality of all people and how to overcome prejudices based on race, religion, gender, class, or nation. Children might be encouraged to associate various cultures and the contributions made by various persons within the family. They can learn about the concept of the oneness of humanity within their families.

Drug abuse constitutes a serious domestic problem in our society, particularly since violence is frequently linked to
illegal drugs and excessive alcohol consumption, and communities need a comprehensive drug control strategy. Community partnerships are needed to fight drug abuse, and such coalitions should involve the media, child protection agencies, business groups, and other community agencies. Types of community partnerships include freestanding, community partnership, government-sponsored, and nongovernmental and nonprofit partnerships. Activities of community partnerships generally focus on drug abuse prevention, early intervention, treatment and aftercare, and tobacco use.

Community coalitions need adequate funding, effective leadership and organization, strategy development, media advocacy, schools and community-based prevention programmes, and treatment components. Leaders of community partnerships indicate the following national policy priorities related to drug abuse, in order of priority: Restricting alcohol advertisements. Lowering legal blood alcohol limits for young drivers. Increasing alcohol taxes, lowering legal blood alcohol limits for adult drivers. Increasing financial grants to community partnerships that are progressive and accountable. Increasing local law enforcement of drug and alcohol laws. Increasing penalties for selling drugs.
Providing funds for treatment on demand, and increasing penalties for drug possession.

The 2019-24 National Drug Master Plan, and the Prevention and Treatment of Drug Dependency Act 20 of 1992 as amended, the Prevention of and Treatment for Substance Abuse Act 70 of 2008 are just a few pieces of legislation that the South African government has introduced to address the issue of alcohol abuse and lessen its harm, demand, and supply. Alcohol harm reduction aims to cut down on issues caused by excessive drinking, like violence, traffic accidents, lost productivity, and the spread of sexually transmitted diseases as a result of unsafe sex.

These policies, programmes, and plans to address alcohol misuse must be carried out through the community support networks. The difficulty is that, despite the efforts of the government, nongovernmental groups, and the business community, the issue still exists. The harm that alcohol misuse causes have broad-reaching negative repercussions that have an impact on the drinker as well as those in his immediate environment and society at large, including those who offer treatments that are intended to lessen or removing the problem.
The plan addresses the need to build the nation’s capacity in order to grow more quickly, employ more people, and raise living standards for all, but especially the poor. It also addresses the need to improve the capabilities of our people so that they can live the life they wish. This is a strategy for South Africa that calls for participation from all facets of society as well as transformation and sacrifice. The plan is the result of thousands of contacts with South Africans, their input, in-depth study and spirited debate across the nation.

The National Development Agency, NDA was created to foster partnerships between the government and civil organizations for the delivery of services, and it aims to offer support and assistance to organizations engaged in service delivery and poverty alleviation. The National Development Agency which was established in 1998 as a result of the National Development Agency Act is:

Aimed at promoting an appropriate and sustainable partnership between the government and civil society organizations to eradicate poverty and its causes.
The National Development Agency initiatives have created a platform between government and civil society organizations with an aim to work together, to eliminate mutual problems that affect our societies. The establishment of the National Development Agency points to the fact that government views civil society organizations, particularly service delivery civil society organizations, as key partners in bringing about development in South Africa. This commitment sits within the paradox of government also being increasingly apprehensive of the role that civil society plays in South Africa.

Civil society promotes development by operating at various levels including local, national and global. In assessing the role of civil society in poverty reduction, the focus should be placed on the values and the impact of civil society organizations operating in the field of poverty reduction, for example, their ability to advocate for values that promote equity and their role in giving voice to the poor. Lobbying policymakers and helping in service provision. The impact of civil society organizations on poverty reduction yielded ambiguous results. For example, nongovernmental organisations, NGOs often succeed in extending services to the poor and in improving their livelihoods. However, the long-term
socioeconomic impacts of these projects are still questionable.

Chairperson, transforming our society requires all social partners from the family, the community, business, government, civil society and labour. Le us work together to ...
Inaudible] ... no one behind. The ANC supports. I thank you.


Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, the Minister of Social Development presented the 2023-24 Budget Vote for the department under the theme, I quote: “DSD at work, leaving no one behind”. And yet millions of young people are left behind in unemployment, poverty and
... [Inaudible.] ... itself on the fact that more than ... [Inaudible.] ... depend on social grants ... [Inaudible.] ... crucial to our people as they are often the only thing ... [Inaudible.] ... between poverty, the plate of food social grants cannot be the only solution to ...

Abantu badinga imisebenzi, uxhaso lwezindlu, ukwesekwa usizo lwezempilo kanye nemfundo ezingeni eliphakame.

As a party we are in full support of our people receiving grants as a safety net ...

 ...kodwa asivumelani ukuthi uhulumeni asebenzise ukuhlupheka kwabantu ukukhankasa kukhankaselwa ukhetho.


It is simply disgraceful and cheap politicking which must be rejected. It goes without saying that deepening levels of despair and suffering inevitably bring about crippling social ills. Despite being aware of this, the department routinely fails to action out its written policies and reports which creates a gap between what is on paper and what is in practice. It is for this reason that despite being tasked on behalf of government to spearhead the fight against the scourge of the gender-based violence in the country. They have not proven to be very successful as numbers continue to rise daily.

I cannot overemphasise how this failure affects our people on the ground. Young girls continue to get raped and sexually violated and teenage pregnancies, which I must say can be avoided, continue to rise. Young men and women continue to be
victims of gang violence. Millions of poor people, children and the homeless are forced to go to bed hungry tonight with no prospect of getting a warm healthy meal when the sun rises. Due to a lack of appropriate state services, vulnerable babies will continue to get abandoned in unsafe places which will increase their prospects of being raped and violated. When rescued, these children’s prospect of a better future are diminished due to an antiadoption stance and deliberately delayed adoptions.

Despite of all these social workers who have been specifically trained to handle such sensitive matters are not prioritised. At worst they are subjected to below minimum wages and at worst they are not paid at all. When nongovernment organisations, NGOs, identify this gap and seek to take it upon themselves to lessen the burden they are provided with
... [Inaudible.] ... to no funding for children, the elderly and the disabled, and those living with human immunodeficiency virus, HIV. The SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, that the department always makes reference to needs a serious reboot despite mostly servicing the elderly, its offices are without chairs, shelters and toilets. Working telephone lines are a rarity and never moving low queues are a daily bread. The
assigned budget ought to fund the thousands of states strange social workers sitting at home. NGOs must be prioritised.

Therefore, the R350 needs to be linked to skills training such as the plumbing opportunities which the IFP-led Zululand District Municipality has made available to young people.
Furthermore, this budget must fund interventions aimed towards winning the war against gender-based violence, GBV, substance abuse, gangsterism, bullying as well as the teenage pregnancy. A government that is hellbent on providing supper, services and looting the little resources available does not deserve our support. However, it is this department that is standing between life and death for many of our people and rejecting it would mean denying our people their basic human rights. The IFP supports the budget.


Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.


Thank you.


Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister and fellow South Africans, there is a saying that
says, “show me on what you spend your time and money, and I will tell you what your priorities are.” Minister, at a time when our economy is in such a poor state that our unemployment rate is skyrocketing, the Department of Social Development in the Free State spent R1,5 million on an International Women’s Day event in March this year. Apparently, R1 million on gifts nobody now knows anything about.

At a time when the DA fights for value-added tax, VAT, exclusion on specific foods to cut the rising cost of living, Sassa has still not sorted out the mess with the Sassa gold cards. We are just hearing about what we will do. More than R500 million has been looted from Sassa by government officials over the past decade, for 10 years is going on.
Imagine how many poor families and children could have put food on their tables with that. Hon ... [Inaudible.] ... social grants and other forms of social welfare are never an adequate substitute for economic growth and job creation, but they play a vital role in protecting the most vulnerable in society from extreme poverty. Grants never has been the generator for economic self-sustainability.

Therefore, Department of Social Development should also play a vital role in protecting and enabling the most vulnerable in
our society. Which is exactly what the Department of Social Development in the Western Cape does by spending their budget on programmes such as, a 111 departmental community nutrition and developing centres and 512 community kitchens which provide cooked meals and food parcels to over 100 000 families, 200 new safety parents were trained during 2022 to provide temporary safe care for children at risk, 26 funded gender-based violence centres provide accommodation, psychosocial and support services to women and their children.

Furthermore, a skills development programme enables the women to become economically independent. Victims of sexual offences and domestic violence also receive long term psychosocial support. Bed capacity for homeless adults as part of reunification and reunited programmes increased in the 37 existing shelters, school-based crime prevention programmes are being introduced for youth at risk and youth café’s provide employment and training programmes for the youth, social workers of nonprofit organisations, NPOs, the driving engine of any department, receive training programmes from the department.

Minister, instead of crying out about alcohol misuse and abuse which is an enormous problem and that it should be a priority
in act on a workable alcohol policy embracing the whole of society approach and implementing prevention programmes to youth address and parenting programmes. As you’ve said, Deputy Minister, the family as the primary structure is essential to our society.

Fellow South Africans, if the Minister and the ANC government really care about the vulnerable and the poor of South Africa, which are more than 17 million people at the moment, they would show us their care and seriousness by spending every available cent, even fighting for a bigger budget. However, R9,162 billion from the Department of Social Development budget was reallocated by National Treasury because they did not spend their budget of 2022-23. Can we trust this department to fend for the vulnerable and the poor?

In conclusion, it is clear that your priorities are not aligned with the way you spend your budget. It is clear that caring is not your priority. Staying in power seems to be the greatest priority. Therefore, the poor and vulnerable are the people paying the highest price. Minister, I hope you can sleep well.

Rre M E NCHABELENG: Motlatsa Modulastulo, ke a leboga.



Deputy Chairperson, South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white, and no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of the people. The will of the people was tested in the last elections. From the day we started until now the people of South Africa have confidence in the ANC that moved them from slavery to where they are.

In my other life I was once a chair of the Portfolio Committee on Labour. One of the visits that we had was to the Western Cape in response to a report by Human Rights Watch when they wanted to the push for the South African wine. That wine from the Western Cape should be boycotted because it is not just wine but has tears and blood of black people and black farm workers.

We went there to visit the farms with labour inspectors. What we found there was really shocking. We are talking about alcohol fetal syndrome — children getting drunk before they are even born. At that time, the farms that we visited ... The report of our visit to the farms is there in the National
Assembly. There were farms where people were paid with alcohol. You see, the farmer will have a spaza shop so that workers buy food and wine at the spaza shop. So, children are born with this.

If the DA is really committed to ensuring that our people live dignified lives, then they should start at home; charity begins at home. Start with your province. If you listened carefully, the Minister and all people who think correctly talked about transformation. The strategic objectives of social transformation, if you know what it means, is to transform and build a new society that is peaceful, equal and just as envisaged in the Freedom Charter, the Ready to Govern Policy Document, the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, The National Development Plan Vision 2030 — I wonder if you really know about that one — and the United Nations Agenda 2030 and ...

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, you cannot drown the speaker. You can heckle but can we just allow the speaker that is on the platform. Thank you.

Mr M E NCHABELENG: I can raise my voice above theirs, Deputy Chair ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No. Hon member, I want order in the House and the order should also come from you. Don’t raise your voice, speak, and they must also allow you to speak.

Mr M E NCHABELENG: There is this one that I don’t even think you have read about because you only read anything that says English, England or London. There is something called Africa’s Agenda 2063. If you have heard about it then you will understand what we are talking about, but it is not Europe or Britain or England 2063.

Deputy Chairperson, the cold dead hand of apartheid is still gripping our people in the farms and everywhere. In some townships in the cities, black people still commit. In some areas if you are seen at night in town they ask you if you have a night permit. They think there is still a nagpas [night permit].

Daar’s nie meer ‘n nagpas hier nie.


South Africa belongs to all who live in it, and we are going to live here more freely than we’ve been some years ago.

The shackles of poverty continue to be harsh towards the black majority in South Africa. As a result, victims of poverty become susceptible to a number of social ills, mostly abuse.
Social support therefore has been shown to be a protective resource for the most vulnerable members of society. The African National Congress, as the leader of government, maintains the objective of attainment of a national democratic society through implementing a radical socioeconomic transformation programme ... [Interjections.] ... You will raise your voice so that I am not heard because in the past, apartheid used to ban people from speaking. You are not going to ban me from speaking by ... [Interjections.]

The protection of children and the most vulnerable through social support is a crucial objective for the government. This goal is pursued through various policies and initiatives aimed at ensuring the wellbeing and safety of these individuals. The President, during the state of the nation address 2023, reaffirmed that government continues to be determined to direct at least 40% of public procurement to women and women owned businesses. I am tempted to say what percentage of the
Western Cape total budget went into women owned businesses. I think we will be shocked by the statistics.

This is proof that the ANC-led government is committed to addressing inequality in support of the most vulnerable individuals in our society. The ANC-led government works tirelessly to improving the accessibility and functioning of Sexual Offences Courts, expand the network of Thuthuzela Care Centres, Khuseleka Centres and Child Youth Care Centres with the assistance of civil society organisations, especially nongovernmental organisations, NGOs. Furthermore, government offers formal support services to support victims of abuse which include medical and psychosocial services in a form of, but not limited to, post exposure prophylaxis and counselling to victims of rape.

The National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide, GBVF, also gives provision for a multisectoral, coherent strategic policy and programming framework to strengthen a co-ordinated national response to the crisis of GBVF, or what came to be known as the second scourge in the 2020 address by the President. It comprises six main pillars that seek to address governance and institutional issues; prevention, response and care, improving economic resilience
and self-reliance to decrease vulnerability to GBVF, and advocacy, for awareness raising and communications as well as research and knowledge management.

Social support, which refers to one being part of a supportive social network of other people who care and are available to help through life challenges, is key to sustaining mental wellbeing and has been shown to assist with victim coping after experiencing a traumatic event.

Social support, or the lack of it, is important in enabling or hindering perpetrator’s ability to sustain abusive relationships through social isolation of victims. It is an undeniable truth that levels of social support are lower among abused children and women compared to non-abused. Moreover, mental ill health symptoms for example, depression and suicide are heightened among victims who are more socially isolated.

The Deputy Minister Bogopane talked about the boy child. That an angry boy is a future angry parent and a future angry husband. Children who will come from that relationship or from people who were exposed to inequalities and abuse will be doubled when they grow up. It will show that they never got
loved and they were made to drink cheap wine even before they were born in Stellenbosch and other places.

As a result, the government invests in child protection services, including the establishment of specialised units within law enforcement agencies. These units are dedicated to investigating and prosecuting cases of child abuse, neglect, and exploitation, thereby deterring such crimes and ensuring justice for victims. Our primary focus is on prioritising the rights of all women, youth, children, people with disabilities, marginalised groups as well as the previously disadvantaged people.

Our aim is to work tirelessly in reducing discrimination and violence against all women and children, and foster gender equality in every level of society. It is equally important that government addresses underlying systemic issues that contribute to the vulnerability of children and certain groups. This includes tackling poverty, unemployment, inequality, and access to quality education and healthcare. The National Health Insurance, NHI, is coming our way and we will definitely win this war for a better health for all.
By addressing these root causes, the government creates a more equitable and inclusive society where the risk factors for vulnerability are minimised. We work with social organisations. The ANC in its struggle against apartheid partnered with NGOs and many other social groupings in the country. We have not forgotten about that, that is why this government through, Mme Zulu, hunts NGOs that are doing good jobs in supporting the poor and vulnerable.

Civil society organisations play a substantive role in the building and grooming of supportive services institutions. The government therefore supports the establishment and functioning of institutions that provide care and support for vulnerable individuals. This includes shelters for victims of abuse, rehabilitation centres for those affected by all kinds of abuse, and homes for orphaned or abandoned children. By partnering with NGOs and civil society, the government expands its reach and ensures a holistic approach to social support.

The government fosters collaboration among various government departments, agencies, and stakeholders involved in child and vulnerable individual protection. This collaboration ensures a co-ordinated and integrated response, maximizing the impact of interventions and facilitating information sharing for more
effective decision-making. The availability of positive social support is associated with women’s greater access and utilisation of services. Abused women and children who lack positive social support tend to be less knowledgeable about available formal support systems and are less likely to utilise formal services.

The persistence of negative societal attitudes that seek to maintain traditional gender roles and justify male dominance over women also impacts negatively on abused women’s willingness to disclose violence experiences and seek social support. When severe abuse is met with stigma in the community, women will be less likely to disclose it to family and even less likely to disclose outside the family or report it to police or other formal service providers.

The President, during his state of the nation address 2023, also called for a continuation of monitoring the implementation of the Intersectoral Protocol on Management of Violence against Women, Child Abuse and exploitation by stakeholders. The policy was developed by the Department of Social Development and its aim is to provide guidance to the social sector and to also inform various models to the provision of psychosocial services in different settings.
Over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period, the department committed to capacitate stakeholders in GBVF hotspots districts on the provision of psychosocial services policy and intersectoral policy on sheltering in implementing the National Strategic Plan on Gender Based Violence and Femicide.

The ANC in its 55th National Conference reaffirmed the need to strengthen resolutions focusing on gender-based violence, women, youth, people with disability, the LGBTQIA+, human settlements, water and sanitation, basic income grant, sport, arts and culture. This is owed to the ANC on-going duty to achieve social cohesion and accelerate the project of nation building. Each time, Deputy Chair ...

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: As you conclude. [Interjections.]

Mr M E NCHABELENG: Each time I stand in this House I always remember these air bricks. For me, they represent what the National Party was because this building was built by them. They are what I see as Nazi swastikas on the wall. If you look at these air bricks, they are reminiscent of Nazism. That is why after the Second World War, many members of the
Ossewabrandwag and many others, I don’t know if it was Balthazar Voster ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can you conclude, please. [Interjections.]

Mr M E NCHABELENG: ... and some of them were locked up for war crimes ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can you conclude ... [Interjections.]

Mr M E NCHABELENG: In conclusion, the ANC support this Budget Vote. You must be born again hon ... [Inaudible.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Hon Chair and hon members, firstly, I wish to thank hon Nchabeleng because he did what I was going to start with, by quoting from the Freedom Charter, basing myself on what hon Du Toit said about the minorities, the grants and opportunities. I want to say to him and all opposition parties, especially those that think we are using the budget for the vote, that we don’t need to use the budget for the vote. We need to be on the ground working and getting the people to appreciate the work that we do.
Secondly, hon Du Toit, I also want to indicate that I’m just taking a little bit of a total. In the period since 2006, this government of the ANC has paid a total of almost
R2,95 trillion towards grants. That’s money that went into the hands of our people; into the hands of the people through the paying of grants. Then, we cover almost 32 million beneficiaries.

Ngicela ningazongibangela umsido mina ngoba akunina enibhadala le mali kulabo abahlomulayo. Yithina esibhadala laba abahlomulayo ...


... it covers almost 32 million beneficiaries. So, since 1994, we changed the course of this country by ensuring that this money we talk about goes into the hands of the people.
However, here is one other thing that I want to raise. The unfortunate part of it is that while we are giving that amount of money to our people, unfortunately for us the economy has not shifted. It hasn’t moved. We give these social grants and they go and buy from the same old owners of the economy of the past because we are still trying to lift our people into ensuring ... [Interjections.] You are talking whatever ... I
don’t want to say it ... To oppress us for 400 years and come here and tell us that 30 years ... My grandfather was taken out of a hostel, having lived in the hostel for more than
50 years ... put there by yourselves. So, you can’t come here and tell me that 500 years, 400 years of oppression can be shifted like this within 30 years.


Yekani ukusibangela umsindo futhi laba base-Western Cape benza kube kubi kakhulu mabayeke ukusicasula ...


... when you move out of here as you walk out, go and see how many people are homeless. Go and see how many people are hungry. So ...


... ngicela ukuthi niyeke ukukhuluma into eningayazi.


I also wish to thank the provinces, the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, the National Development Agency, NDA, the regional managers and all for ensuring that they are here and that they continue doing the work in serving the people, and
they serve the people without thinking are you black, are you coloured, are you white, are you what. When you go to the Sassa and NDA offices everywhere, these officials that you see sitting here and sitting over there don’t say because you are white we are not going to serve you, like you did in the past.

Futhi wena nje ngabe uthula ukudlula bonke.


Thank you to everyone that logged on to this discussion and this debate. In particular, I wish to thank and appreciate all stakeholders from business to academia, labour, civil society and donor development partners that have partnered and worked with us as the Department of Social Development portfolio.
After this, we apologise to the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities. We will watch you where we are because we are continuing the conversation with our stakeholders at the SA Post Office, Sapo, headquarters.

I also want to appreciate all formations, including Sonke Gender Justice, Brothers for Life, People Opposing Women Abuse
... {Inaudible.] ... from the North West ... [Inaudible.] I think the provinces can talk about many other organisations
that stand up to fight gender-based violence. As a department, we have a programme called Asikhulume. Can we use that programme to make sure that we assist our people?

I also want to thank Soweto Creamery and Mavis Maluleka who started small businesses out of the R350, and L and K House of ShoeWash ...

... ngiyeza kini ngizonivakashela.



[Inaudible.] ... which also started a business using their R350. Jabulile in Randfontein ...



The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: ... started a business in 2020. There are many others that I can talk about.

I wish to thank the government of the ANC for standing firm and being strong about supporting our people. I will not forget to thank my life partner, Zweli, my family, the
grandchildren and all for being able to understand and appreciate the work that I do which keeps on taking me away from work.


Malibongwe igama lamakhosikazi!



delegates, before we conclude, I really want to emphasise the fact regarding the decorum of the House. We don’t have to shout when we want to heckle. Can we really still allow the speaker on the podium or on the platform to be heard by those who want to listen to them? You can shout as much as you like but please make sure that you don’t drown out the speaker. I’m just asking it because it sometimes becomes very, very unbearable, particularly if you sit here in front. Thank you very much, hon ...

Let me start by saying we have come to the end of this debate on Budget Vote No 19 — Social Development. Before I thank the Minister and Deputy Minister, let me thank our special guests in the gallery, the Grandmothers Against Poverty and Aids who come from Khayelitsha. It was wonderful having you here. Thank you very much for attending this budget.
I would like to thank the Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs, and all other special delegates for their participation and their attendance. We will now proceed to the Second, Third and Fourth Orders of the day. It is the policy debate on Budget Vote No 20 — Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities; the policy debate on Budget Vote No 9 – Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation; the policy debate on Budget Vote No 14 — Statistics SA; and Appropriation Bill B3 — 2023.

Before I continue, I will indicate that you are excused as soon as you want to leave, hon Minister Lindiwe Zulu, as well as MEC Lindiwe and other MECs that are here who will not continue with us. I’m sorry, my comrade, I didn’t get your domicile. So, we will continue.

I also want to inform members that there was a request from the hon Dlamini-Zuma to join us via the platform because she’s not feeling well. I’m mentioning it because she is one out of all the Ministers who is here most regularly, although other people might differ with me. So, I will call on the hon Nkosazana Clarice Dlamini-Zuma, the Minister of Women, Youth and Persons With Disabilities, to open the debate. Over to you, hon Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma.


Policy Debate on Budget Vote No 20 - Women, Youth and Persons

with Disability:

Policy Debate on Budget Vote No 9 - Planning, Monitoring and


Policy Debate on Budget Vote No 14 - Statistics South Africa:

Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, chairperson of the Select Committee on Health and Social Services and select committee members. [Interjections.]

sound, please? We cannot hear you hon Minister. Can we get assistance from the Table? We cannot hear you Minister.

Let me begin on a sad note on condolences to the family, friends, Members of Parliament, and comrades of hon Tina Joemat-Pettersson who sadly passed away yesterday.
Our Budget Vote today takes place six days after the launch of the Youth Month during which we commemorate ... [Interjections.] ...


be assisted so that we can hear the member that is on the platform?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: I am withstanding on that. I think the Minister should be advised that there is a disconnection between the virtual platform and the House. Deputy Chairperson, we have raised it before that the information technology, IT and Table staff must take this matter seriously because it even impacted on participation of members who are not in the House. This disconnection between virtual and the chambers needs to be sorted out as a matter of urgency.

... our department’s determination to run an institutionalised and all of government and all of society approach to the economic emancipation of women, youth and persons with disability.
Hon Deputy Chair, our ability to deliver our society a tomorrow that is better than yesterday is a yardstick. A government should earn its legitimacy as a genuine custodian of aspirations of South Africans, particularly those who ... [Inaudible.]

Despite the substantive and visible progress we have made in all spheres of social economic development, a lot more still needs to be done. We therefore acknowledge that despite our best efforts and intentions, the systematic and structural legacy of colonialism and apartheid cannot and will not be corrected in just under three decades of the democratic dispensation.

While our continent’s youth full population is a blessing that could bring democratic demographic dividends, but it is not automatic. Significant investment in our most special resource, the people, is urgently required to make the demographic dividend the reality.

Whilst it should be of concern to all of us is the extent to which our society remains characterized by poverty, unemployment and inequality that disproportionately affects women, youth, and persons with disability.
The World Bank’s report titled Overcoming poverty and inequality in South Africa, observes among other things, that poverty in South Africa persists along racial, gender and spatial dimensions with black rural women, particularly on the receiving end.

The World Bank's 2018 report notes that I quote:


There is inequality of wealth. The bottom 50% of households account for only 8% of incomes, 5% of asset values and 4% of net wealth. Richer households are almost 10 times wealthier than poor households, and we have much more financial assets and mortgage liabilities. There is consumption inequality.”

Of course, consumption is determined by income, so we can see that most people are still on grants because that's the only income they will have, and it cushions them against poverty. There is wage inequality.

A needle of 10% of the working population is white. Yet white South Africans make nearly three times the average wage for black South Africans who constitute more than 75% of the labour force. There is inequality of opportunities.
In South Africa, inequality of opportunities for children is determined by variables such as gender, ethnicity, place of birth, family origins, which should not be in a normal society. Five upward intergenerational mobility, there is low intergenerational mobility and this paints a rather pessimistic scenario as it suggests that current levels of inequality are likely to persist in the future. Ordinarily, every next generation should be moving upwards, but it's not quite happening like that here in South Africa.

So, our collective budgets and efforts as a government and working together with all social partners must serve to arrest and not to widen these disparities. Hon Deputy Chairperson, as a department who are traditionally known as an advocacy department, and we have a shoestring budget as you know.

But we have decided this time that we will change and have a step that change.

According to the Constitution of the country, section 198, it determines that we should all live as equals, communities should not live in fear of violence or want, but looking at where we are today, we are all in agreement that we don't live as equals, communities live in fear due to violent crime,
gender-based violence and femicide, and we do not live in peace and harmony, and neither are we free from fear and want.

In agreement with the Commander in Chief, the President of the country, we have decided that we are going to implement a South African National Defence Force led national service primarily targeted at the youth, women, and persons with disabilities.

This will contribute to a skills revolution that will be open to every son and daughter in South Africa. This will assist in accelerating the nation's post pandemic recovery and reconstruction because we know that a lot of our youth are unemployable because they don't have skills. So, the National Defence Force will contribute to skilling them and massifying the sector specific skills development so that we can power our nation’s industrialization, aspiration and grow local economy and kick start a deliberate skills revolution.

The second thing we want to do is an integrated farming value chain cooperatives. Our department, in partnership with universities and TVET colleges and existing civil society organisations will capacitate, train, empower communities and
roll out the integrated farming cooperatives in South Africa's poorest districts.

The primary objectives of these projects are to reduce the impact of extreme poverty, hunger, and unemployment and basic socio-economic insecurities and restore livelihoods and build community wealth. Linked to the integrated farming cooperatives, the department will partner with public, private, and non-profit entities to train and capacitate over
300 women, youth, and persons with disabilities in at least three of the ten poorest districts in baking skills.

We also want to open the cooperative bank because we know that it's very difficult for you for women, youth, and persons with disabilities to access finance from our normal banks. So, we are collaborating with the Co-operative Bank Development Agency, CBDA, and other key stakeholders to establish cooperative banking institution to improve access to finance.

We are also looking at the creative industry as a catalyst for job creation and local economic development. We learned from Miriam Makeba's iconic career not to underestimate the power of the creative industry. This industry is not only central to the soul of the nation. It also has a potential of creating
thousands of jobs, as we have seen in Bollywood, in Hollywood, in Nollywood as well as increasing and improving the country’s gross domestic product, GDP because this industry has a ripple effect on many other areas. So, we want to amongst other things establish one or more recording studios so that young people can also record their music and make the most of their talent.

Hon Deputy Chairperson, we are also saddened that gender-based violence is not subsiding and it's something that we all have to fight against. We are fighting for a South Africa where all women are free to actively engage and exercise their talents in every area of human endeavour. Whether it is in agriculture, arts, judiciary, academia, sports, politics, the economy, amongst others. This is because women empowerment is fundamental to the empowerment of society.

Our department will be reviving the focus on the oceans economy and its potential to create jobs as an economic frontier. And therefore, this year our theme for Women's Month is on the oceans, economy, and harnessing opportunities in the oceans for women socio economic empowerment. There was a time when this was discussed but somehow it seemed to have fizzled
out and we want to revive those discussions because the of the ocean is important in South Africa.

As I said earlier, we are very sad that women continue to suffer what the President called the second pandemic, gender- based violence and femicide. We want to mobilize the entire government and society to treat gender-based violence and femicide as a pandemic because it was announced as such. But I don't think we are treating it as such.

We also want to work with research institutions to find out what are the known and unknown drivers of gender-based violence so that our target in terms of trying to curb the scourge can be focused on those drivers.

Hon Deputy Chairperson, one of the liberation struggles said, that’s Me Shope, I'm quoting her, she said:

“Everyone must decide what their mission is.”


Her mission was to liberate South Africa. And what is your mission? Now this is a question that should be answered by all of us, the entire society including Members of Parliament on either side of the benches, the governing and the opposition
benches because we will not be able to deal with the scourge unless the entire society, every single person takes responsibility. The Deputy Minister will also expand on this.

Today, as you may know, the Bill on the council for gender- based violence and femicide, that Bill is being dealt with in the National Assembly. There are public hearings today and we are happy that, that is happening. But as I said, it will not be possible end gender-based violence unless all of us take responsibility.

It was Haile Silassie who said when those who should have acted didn't act and those who knew better were indifferent and those who could have made sure that there's justice didn't do anything. That's why evil continues in the world. So, we shouldn't be counted as those who didn't act when we should have acted.

Hon members, I also want to deal with the issue of persons with disabilities, the Deputy Minister will expand on that. I'll just touch on a few areas. As part of advocacy, we aim at increasing the level of awareness, information, and knowledge about the different disabilities.
The department will be working with the Department of Health and persons with disabilities’ organisations to publish a working manual and guide on mental health, autism, epilepsy, acceptable terminology on disability, wheelchair provision, deaf and blind disabilities.

Of course, we will also be advocating on albinism, as you know there is a problem now in the country where people with albinism are under siege. Now that Parliament has passed the 18th Constitutional Amendment Bill and the South African Sign Language is going to be the 12th official language.

We will be working with the South African Sign Language society as well as PanSALB and other departments to ensure that's the 12th language is mainstreamed. The department will also support the development of a framework on self- representation by the persons with disabilities so that we can make a reality, their slogan of, Nothing About Us Without Us.

Hon Deputy Chairperson, the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, will be rolling out a lot of its programmes in terms of ensuring that youth entrepreneurs are supported; ensuring that young people are put through the proper pathways to get jobs or training.
There will also be training assisting young people with driver’s license and their last mile delivery so that they can get jobs in the delivery sector, and they might provide some of them with motorbikes so that they are able to do that.
There will be training of about 50 000 in the skills development. So, NYDA will continue to do a lot as it has been doing before.

Hon Deputy Chair, we are also going to be hosting what we call the 40 under 40 Innovation Awards. These awards are to celebrate and recognize excellence amongst our people, especially young people, but also to inspire those who still want to get there. This these awards will be held in September this year. And they will include areas such as banking, finance, energy, agriculture, entrepreneurship, community development, media, journalism, theatre, arts, and many others.

Those nominations are open as we speak. They've been open for a while and they will be closing on the 16th of June. We encourage all of you who know young people of excellence to nominate them so that they can participate in this.
Hon Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, let me say that our budget allocation for this year is
R1 billion, 36 444, the 7% of that goes to NYDA and of course R94 million of that goes to the Commission on gender Equality.

The department itself remains with just over 200, and we remain with only R76 million. So, you might be asking yourselves, how are you going to do all these things with such a shoestring budget? We are determined to work with other stakeholders, private sector non-governmental organizations, NGOs, universities, Setas, and everyone that we can cooperate with to implement what we want to do.

In conclusion, I wish to thank. The select committee and the chair of the select committee, the Commission for Gender Equality, our Deputy Minister, the National Youth Development Agency and all the NGOs and international partners that we work with, the private sector that we work with as well as the director-general and all the officials in my office for all the work they do.

I also want to thank my family for the support they've given me, not just now, but over the years and I'd like to ask this august House to support this budget. I hope. Everyone will
support the budget because if we don't support the budget, it means we can't do the work. Thank you very much hon Chairperson.


EVALUATION (Ms M L Ramokgopa): House Chairperson, if it is possible may I kindly request that I switch off my video or my camera precisely because I do not have good network. I am afraid that if I don’t switch it off I will continue to have glitches. I am not sure if I am audible because the previous speaker looked like she was not audible while speaking. Am I audible, hon Chairperson?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes, hon Minister, you are.


EVALUATION (Ms M L Ramokgopa): Chairperson, I take it that you are allowing me to switch off my video not because I do not respect the House, but precisely because I am afraid that I will get cut off because of network issues.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Okay, agreed to. You can continue.

EVALUATION (Ms M L Ramokgopa): Hon Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to acknowledge the hon Chairperson of the NCOP Mr Amos Masonda, hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP Mme Sylvia Lucas, hon Deputy Minister of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation Mme Pinky Kekana, and the chairperson of the Select Committee on Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation Ntante Njadu, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers that are here on the platform and hon members of the select committee members, hon members of the NCOP, the Director-General of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation including the entire team and the team that is in the National Planning Commission, it is an honour to table the Budget Policy statement of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation for this period of 2022-24 financial year to this august House.

As the previous speakers have already spoken, I would like to take this opportunity to pass my heartfelt condolences to the family of our beloved departed Tina Joemat-Pettersson who passed away yesterday. We would like to pass our condolences to the family, most especially the two sons and the siblings. We hope that they will find comfort somehow in these trying times. Of course, condolences is also passed to the ruling
party which have lost a gallant fighter and someone that has really worked hard for this democratic dispensation and the organisation of the ANC to be where it is.

We also continue to use this opportunity to outline the department’s plan for the current financial year and to reflect on the government's performance in the implementation of our developmental goals. These goals are embedded in the National Development Plan and in the seven priority areas for the Sixth administration as outlined in the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, cycle of 2019 up to 2024, which is next year.

During the 2023 state of the nation address, His Excellency President Matamala Ramaphosa acknowledged our collective hope and resilience as one of the defining attributes of our nation. And I'm very sure that none of us can actually speak anything that is opposed to this statement. It is through hope that we have been able to navigate and conquer the most challenging times as the country, including the recent COVID-
19 pandemic, the 2021 unrests and the natural disasters that have affected parts of our country. Despite the compounding challenges such as an amplify unemployment, crime and stark inequalities in society, we remain resilient and forward-
looking in our pursuit to rebuild our economy, restore social cohesion and strengthen social compact in advancing socioeconomic development. We reflect on almost 30 years of South Africa’s democracy and recognise the significant milestones achieved during this period, including the expansion of our social protection systems that the Department of Social Development has detailed, and we definitely celebrate that irrespective of who sees it as something that no one should celebrate.

We continue to also acknowledge the increased access to basic education and health care services, the improved responsiveness of our criminal justice system and the strengthening of our diplomatic relation across Africa and the world that has also assisted us to be able to increase our economic diplomacy. We must hold on to the hope and resilience as a nation in order to protect and advance our democratic state.

Hon Chairperson, Priority 1 of the seven priorities under the Sixth administration, is to build a capable, ethical and developmental state. As the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation our contribution to this priority line, strengthening the co-ordination of all spheres of government,
the legislature and the use judiciary to operate in alignment. We also continue to co-ordinate social issues, including service delivery, most especially service delivery that moves the need as it relates to intervening in making sure that we I have changed the lives of our people.

In 2021, we introduced the national framework towards the professionalisation of the Public Service. The framework aims to ensure qualified and competent workforce in the public sector that will provide strategic leadership at the political and administrative interface. The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation continues to support the President in the assessment of annual performance plans of the executives to ensure that service deliveries and integral aspect of their priorities as we approach the end of the MTEF framework of this particular cycle. Our role in the process is to assess the alignment of their annual performance plan, APPs, with the broader National Development Plan, NDP, the The Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, priorities, Sona and budgetary processes of government to ensure better co- ordination on the provision of service delivery to our people, as I've already alluded to. The cross-cutting focus of all APPs must include the rights of women, youth and persons with disabilities. It is for this reason that we are also excited
at the presentation at the Budget Vote that was presented by Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma because it definitely speaks to what we would like to see and give direction to what other departments and stakeholders should align themselves to.

As part of building state accountability and reinforcing ethical values, the government has developed the National Anticorruption Strategy. The National Anticorruption Strategy, NACS, sets out a comprehensive programme of action to address both the preventative and reactive measures in the fight against corruption. The process of implementing NACS has led to an appointment of independent National Anticorruption Advisory Council by the President in 2022. The council will provide advisory inputs on matters related to government’s comprehensive response to the recommendation of the Judicial Commission of inquiry into allegations of ... [Interjections.]

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, I am rising on a point of order. I heard during the beginning of the budget speech that the Minister passed some sort of an apology for not being in the House. But we cannot allow a person to table a budget without even seeing the face of that person. Could the video be switched on to see who is speaking here.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause, are you done?

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Hon Mohai, you cannot intimidate me like that. I am talking.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Are you done?


Ms M O MOKAUSE: Yeah, I’m done.


THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: House Chair, ... [Inaudible.] ... for disrupting the proceedings of the speech of the Minister because when you started you did outline, and permission was granted to the Minister. This is why the video is switched off.

Secondly, this is a hybrid sitting. Ministers or any other members who have indicated not to be in the House because of other reasons, they do participate in the House. So, unfortunately the hon member is joining the proceedings very late. Thanks.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thanks very much, hon Chief Whip. Hon members, there is no point of order. Can you continue, Minister.

Ms M O MOKAUSE: House Chairperson, there is a point of order here unless you don’t know the procedure of chairing a Council.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon member, I have taken a ruling ... [Interjections.]

Ms M O MOKAUSE: The Minister cannot table the whole departmental budget with a video off.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): I will ask the Table ...


... bakuvalele ngaphandle.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Can the Table assist me, please.
Ms M O MOKAUSE: ... unless if you don’t know what you are ... who said I must be muted?

An hon MEMBER: You must be muted.


Ms M O MOKAUSE: Who said I must be muted because it is my right.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): I have already taken a ruling can the Table assist me.

Ms M C MANTHATA-MAHASELA (Limpopo): It is allowed. This is a hybrid meeting this one.

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chairperson, a whole Minister cannot table a budget with a video off. Unless you do not know the procedure. It can’t happen! The ANC cannot dictate for us.

Ms M C MANTHATA-MAHASELA (Limpopo): It can.

Ms M O MOKAUSE: It can’t happen. It’s wrong. That thing is not done. The ANC cannot dictate to us.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause, can you allow us to proceed.

Ms M O MOKAUSE: The ANC cannot dictate to us on wrong things that they want to push inside the Council.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): You know hon Mokause, if you were inside the House, I was going to take you out. But now I am taking the ruling that ...

Ms M O MOKAUSE: You take me out for what?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Yes, you must be out.

Ms M C MANTHATA-MAHASELA(Limpopo): She asked for permission.


Ms M O MOKAUSE: We are going to take you out for not knowing the procedure of the Council.

Ms M C MANTHATA-MAHASELA(Limpopo): You will go out.


Ms M O MOKAUSE: You don’t know the procedure of the Council. We will remove you from that Chair.
Ms M C MANTHATA-MAHASELA (Limpopo): She asked for a permission. The Minister asked for a permission.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Mokause, I am giving you a last warning.

Ms M O MOKAUSE: What wrong things are you busy with there? We will remove you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): The Table, please, I have taken a ruling and I was very patient for the hon Mokause. I don’t have any choice now, but she must be out right now.

Ms M O MOKAUSE: You can take me out, but I am telling you now that you can’t Chair the Council. You can’t!

Mr M J MAGWALA: No, Mama Ndlovu, how do you take hon Mokause out, but you ruled the other day that ...

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Wrong things! The DA must bring back that video of yours.
Mr M J MAGWALA: No, Mama Ndlovu, you cannot do that. The other delegate we said she must put her video on. She was sitting in a car and then we allowed that delegate to give her speech in a car. Why not with the Minister? And now you want to take Mama Mokause out? It is wrong, Mama Ndlovu. It’s wrong! You must be consistent, Mama Ndlovu. You must be consistent. because we said in the last siting that the delegate must open his video. There’s nothing special about the Minister.

Ms M C MANTHATA-MAHASELA (Limpopo): They are misbehaving.

Mr M J MAGWALA: We cannot be addressed by people who do not have their videos on.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Magwala!


Mnu M J MAGWALA: Ewe mama.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz W Ngwenya): Uza kulandela sana.

Mnu M J MAGWALA. Ndenzeni?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): I didn’t give you permission. I have never given you permission to speak. I believe last week on Thursday ...


... nonke niwutholile lo mqulu. Lo mqulu weMithetho niwu tholile nonke. Ngaphandle kokuthi ufuna ngikufundele futhi. Ngakho angeke ngikwenze loko. Angikunikanga imvume yokuthi ukhulume futhi ngizocela ukuthi uthule ngize ngikunikeze imvume yokuthi ukhulume.


Mr M J MAGWALA: I withdraw, Mama, Ndlovu. On a point of order again.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Anginaso isikhathi sokudlala ngizosebenza la.

Can we allow the Minister to continue with her speech, please. Minster ...

...qhuba sana, qhuba!



EVALUATION (Ms M L Ramokgopa): Chairperson, I honestly don't mind putting my camera on. It's just that it is the issue of network, but I will be directed by you as the Chairperson of the session. There co-ordination across government is key to improving service delivery through the District Development Model, DDM. The implementation of the DDM should be able to put policy and legislative system into action to promote localisation and improve service delivery. The DDM is making significant progress in almost all districts across the country. According to reports districts have developed their one plans to outline areas of socioeconomic development in their respective localities. The plans are being evaluated to co-ordinate participation of all spheres of government in the implementation process. This is a key intervention of the National Steering Committee for Integrated Planning. The committee aims to improve collaboration across the government by creating a high level platform for engagement, consultation, sharing of best practices and unblocking development obstacles across government.
Planning remains the apex of advancing developmental goals therefore the department has conducted an extensive assessment study on the state of planning, followed by consultation with stakeholders that led to the development of policy framework for integrated planning. The framework was adopted by the Cabinet for implementation in 2022. The policy framework and its implementation plan built on progress made in institutionalising planning and seeks to address gaps such as the fragmentation of planning, inadequate capabilities and the need to improve co-ordination and modernise the planning towards the achievement of better results.

The policy framework has further informed the production of the Development Planning Framework Bill. The Bill provides a legislative framework for the national development planning system involving the three spheres of government and organs of state informed by the constitutional powers and functions. It further sets out the planning functions of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and the National Planning Commission. We aim to table the Bill to Cabinet and Parliament in the current financial year.

Hon members, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation has developed the budget prioritisation framework
to facilitate the alignment of planning priorities and the national budget process on an annual basis. The budget prioritisation framework, BPF, is a key input in the budget deliberations and the Medium-Term Expenditure Committee which makes the recommendation of funding allocation for the country.

In the year 2022-23, research report was commissioned to assess the alignment between the national planning system and the budgeting processes. This research revealed that there is relatively good alignment between interventions, plans and budgets. However, these interventions are not translated in result-based targets within institutional plans. Therefore, as the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation we have recommended further reforms to improve alignment of the planning and budgeting systems.

Hon members, the second priority of the Sixth administration is on economic transformation and job creation. In 2022, we released the time monitoring report which indicated that government continues to its strides of promoting inclusive economic growth and aimed at addressing the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality. The strides are made in the context of economic shocks, including the COVID-19
pandemic that I've just spoken about, the energy crisis and other structural constraints. One of the notable interventions led by President Ramaphosa is the South African Investment Conference, which has been able to raise about R1,5 trillion worth of investment pledges and commitments over the past five years, which exceeded the initial targets by almost 26%, and which is something that I think we should all celebrate. These pledges are aimed at increasing investments and the implementation of economic reforms. As the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation we are consolidating a framework to assess the impact of this investment pledges and agreements on the development of the country and its citizens. This entails consultations and deliberations with captains of the industries, the private sector, multilateral companies and other critical stakeholders at the domestic and international level to engage on trade relations and social as a compact. As we all know government cannot do it alone, so the issue of active citizenry becomes very important in this regard.

During 2022, there has been significant progress in implementing the economic reconstruction and recovery plan aimed at unleashing South Africa’s economic potential alongside infrastructure reforms. Notably, the establishment of the National Energy Crisis Committee, Necom, in 2022, aimed
at co-ordinating a response to the electricity crisis with a clear mandate to bring an end to the load shedding and accelerate new energy generation. Today, the licensing requirement for embedded generation projects has been lifted and the pipeline has grown over 100 private sector projects with more than 9 000 megawatts of capacity anticipated.

Government has also announced an Eskom debt relief of R254 billion, which is approximately R168 billion in capital and R86 billion in interest over the next three years. The government is also pursuing greater competition in transport and logistics through third party access to the freight rail sector in line with 2022 White Paper on rail policy. In addition, freight road to rail migration based document was developed in the first quarter of the financial year 2022-23. The road to rail performance between 2016 to 2022 indicates that about 724 117 truckloads have been moved off the road to rails. This translates to a total approximately offer the depot 24,62 million tonnes of volumes that have been transported through rail network in the same period.

In addition, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation will monitor the performance of state-owned enterprises within the transport sector and government
departments in facilitating this process because without transport, the economy will definitely not be able to move. We must leverage on the instrumental role of the state-owned enterprises, SOE, in driving forward structural and economic reforms. This requires that we invest in stability, effectiveness and the financial sustainability of SOE to improve responsiveness in delivering their mandate.

The roll-out of critical infrastructure is underway in water, sanitation, energy and transport. Projects worth about R134,2 billion are in procurement and additional
R232,3 billion worth of projects are in construction and R3,9 billion worth of projects have been completed as we speak.

In my capacity as Minister in the Presidency for Planning, Monitoring And Evaluation, and the government representative in the public-private growth initiative, I'm making a call for the private sector to make sustained contribution to developing, maintaining and expanding economic infrastructure. I am saying this with the understanding that we also have a responsibility as government to create an enabling environment for business to be able to invest, but also to participate as citizens that wants to see this government grow.
Hon Chairperson, the third priority of the six administration is in education, skills and health. Since the dawn of democracy in 1994, we have made great strides to move towards universal access to education. The National Student financial Aid, NSFAS, is steadily increasing access to postschool education and training, making it possible for students from poor background to attend Tvet colleges and public universities. I think this will also make the Minister of Social Development happy as he also spoke about this.

As part of the SA Connect programme efforts are also being made to upscale connectivity in our schools and create a conducive environment for learners to embrace technological innovation. The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation has initiated engagements with the Department of Basic Education and the Department of Communication and Digital Technologies for a discussion on the possibility of increasing the allocated bandwidth for teaching and learning. We call in telecommunication companies to participate and contribute to ensuring that our children are not excluded from the digital revolution. This includes infrastructure support, training and education and access to connectivity. This will also help them to be able to build their future employees in the future and also their future partners of business that
would then now be able to be more well equipped if they invest today.

During the current the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF improving the overall health care system of our country has become a priority, and which will continue to be a priority.
The government has developed the National Health Insurance Bill in 2022, for the implementation of the National Health Insurance Bill. The Bill aims to improve the total life expectancy of South Africans through programmes that are aimed at capping the impact of both communicable and noncommunicable diseases. We must say that we are very happy to know that this Bill has really received well in Parliament and also in the portfolio committee and we hope that it will continue to grow and do what it’s supposed to do.

Having said that, I must say that we are also celebrating the fact that a life expectancy rate has really improved in South Africa, and we definitely hope that all our sustainable development goals will, especially as it relates to health, be reached in due course.

The fourth priority of the Sixth administration is focused on consolidating social wage. Over the medium-term the government
has dedicated 59,2 of the consolidated noninterest spending to health, education, housing, social protection, transport, employment and local amenities. Since the outbreak of COVID-19 pandemic as I have already alluded to, the social relief distress grant that the Minister of Social Development has spoken about has reached around 8,3 million people. The intervention forms part of an ongoing process aimed at introducing the basic income support for most vulnerable people. There have been a number of research that have been made in terms of the impact of this R350, and it has been proven that indeed people use this in their majority to buy food and some of them are also using it to be able to try and go and get jobs. So indeed, it is making a difference where it is needed the most.

Ladies and gentlemen, the fifth priority focuses on social cohesion and safe communities. Our government wants citizens to be safe and feel safe. A safe environment allows citizens to participate in the socioeconomic activities of our country. In this case, we welcome the enlistment of the 10 358 new SA Police Service, SAPS, recruitments in the financial year 2022-
23 which is definitely above the 10 000 targets that we have put for ourselves.
Madam Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to thank you for giving me this particular time to be able to speak on the priorities of government. We will continue to allow ourselves and to make sure that we come to report and to also co- ordinate on the responsibilities that have been given to us in supporting government and building a capable state. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I just hope that I did not really upset the House in not showing my face, but definitely this is me, Maropene Ramokgopa. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.


Morolong): A ke go leboge Modulasetilo wa Ntlo e e kgethegileng ...

 ... Ministers and Deputy Minister sin the Presidency, hon members, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, fellow South Africans ...


... dumelang.

Yesterday the country received the harrowing news of the unfortunate passing of the hon Tina Joemat-Pettersson. I wish to join the President in extending our collective deep sense of condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of the hon Joemat-Pettersson.

We are assembled in this august House, 10 days before our nation commemorates the heroic sacrifices of the youth of 1976, for their valour and immense sacrifices. We owe every young person who perished in the struggle a debt that can never be repaid. We call on the youth of 2023 to similarly confront the common challenges that face our country today, and contribute in the construction of a democratic developmental society.

Two weeks ago, on 25 May, as South Africans and Africans, we celebrated Africa Day as a day on which the Organisation of African Unity, OAU, later African Union, AU, was formed to pronounce an agenda for Africa that sought and seeks to build Africa that is free of disunity and violence ... [Inaudible.]
... diseases, ignorance, amongst other things. [Inaudible.]
... from work done 60 years ago by the founders of the African Union, South Africa is a power signatory to the African Charter on Statistics, which was concluded a few years ago.

This signature obliges South Africa and Statistics SA to the noble ideals espoused in the African Charter on Statistics.

The African Charter on Statistics, amongst others, provides for a common legal framework for statistics development of the African continent. We mentioned this as we do. We illustrate that South Africa is committed to the African and international agenda to secure integrity of all our statistical products. We mention this as we do to underscore our commitment to the integrity and independence of our national statistics agency, Statistics SA.

In its 2023-24 work programme, Statistics SA boldly confirms that statistics are a vital source of evidence as it provides objective numerical data on important aspects of the country, including economic growth, job creation, characteristics of the population, social living conditions, health, education and crime, to mention a few. Importantly because the work that Statistics SA does is an integral part of both our social and economic lives. We come to you to present a budget that
supports the organisation’s work programme, 2023-24, the funding of this work programme will ensure that Statistics SA continued to provide the country with objective and numerical data on important aspects such as economic growth, job creation, etc.

While our country still largely relies on the resource economy, important strides are made to move into the
knowledge-driven economy. In this regard, as we transcend from resource based technology based economy, we recognise the tremendous value that lies in the gathering of assessment, and utilisation of data to drive informed decisions across all sectors of the South African society.

Importantly, this institutional autonomy and integrity of our national statistics agency is vital to the production of credible objective and valid data so as to objectively empower decisions across all sectors. In relation to government, this data is important to firstly assist government to elaborate policy that properly responds to the needs of the vast majority of the people of South Africa. To help government monitor and evaluate progress and outcomes of policy implementation against a set of baselines.
Secondly, data is important for the enhancement of service delivery and the effective allocation of resources by providing evidence of health outcomes, population demographics, academic performance, social and economic infrastructure needs. Using this evidence, government can make evidence-based decisions in identifying and addressing areas that need improvement.

Statistics SA therefore occupies and important place in our pursuit for economic freedom and growth and social equity. Its independent role to collect, produce and disseminate official statistics is extremely important and needs to be continuously protected.

In Statistics SA Budget Vote speech to the National Assembly, almost a month ago, Minister Ntshavheni holds that as a matter of purpose the statistical results released by Statistics SA must ensure that government gets the information it needs to develop policies and programmes and interventions, and equally inform the public so that they can evaluate the effectiveness of government’s actions. It is this symbiotic relationship between access to information and the formulation of evidence- based public policy interventions that continue to highlight the importance of an independent objective and stable national
statistical system. Government is committed to ensure guarantee and promote the independence of our national statistical system, not only for use, but via the public sector, but also to ensure that we are well informed and we have a well-informed public citizenry, able and ready to use our statistical products as equipment for decision-making.

We meet here today as government and legislatures to debate this Budget Vote during in which our national economy is facing seriously tough economic and social headwinds, both domestically and globally. Load shedding continue to exert enormous pressure on small businesses, causing some to close down and increasing unemployment as a result.

On the global front, the Russia-Ukraine conflict has produces interruptions on the global supply chain, especially of food stuff and fertilisers. Global inflation continues to rise, creating ripple effects on the domestic economy. In this regard, we need reliable and objective numeric data to inform and drive our decision-making successfully to respond to the challenges thus enunciated.

In pursuit of the transformation of the statistical landscape in South Africa, the organisation identified four strategic
outcomes to achieve, namely insightful data, agile operating model, interconnected statistical models, transform capability. Insightful data speaks to both the quantitative and qualitative production of data that matches the requirements of our sustainability and developmental agenda.

Our data should be able to easily understood, to illuminate insights that spur action from the people, their representatives and all economic factors. While the statistical systems’ ability properly to respond to the growing user demands for insightful data, is a challenge in the current environment. Statistics SA will adopt a new data culture that is more flexible, that is more responsive and proactive in meeting user demands.

In this regard, Statistics SA will endeavour to provide a digital user platform to meet and serve basic user demands for insightful data. This is targeted to be achieved by 2025 at the midpoint of the current Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF. In support of this strategic outcome, Statistics SA has developed an integrated indicator framework to align information needs form global to municipal level with the National Development Plan as a pivot of the framework.
This framework will be used to identify gaps that exist in the statistical data system and guide to inform prioritisation of statistical series. Conversation with the Department of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs are underway to identify indicators to be included in the integrated indicator framework for the District Development Model. Together with WIF, Statistics SA will be revamping its website to serve as a key service point for the consumption of its products. In line with the user request, the website revamping has started in the first quarter of this financial year. We are pleased to announce the strategic partnerships that Statistics SA has concluded with a number of stakeholders, including the SA Reserve Bank, Medical Research Council and the Department of Home Affairs, amongst others. These partnerships seek to build collaboration and partnerships in the data ecosystem. With regard to agile operating systems, Statistics SA seeks to build innovative operations that allow for flexibility and responsiveness in the delivery of statistical product, faster and cost-effectively. With our agile operating model, Statistics SA will be using digital models to collect data for the consumer price index is just but one example of continued modernisation of our collection, analysis and dissemination of our statistical products.
The building of interconnected statistical models seeks to build interconnected systems that improves efficiency, accountability and accessibility. The continued building of partnerships, some of which we have mentioned above, will be a key feature of this interconnected statistical model. The Statistics Act Amendment Bill will provide for the improved statistical co-ordination and ensure adherence to the eight conditions contained in the Protection of Personal Information Act.

For the 2023 financial year, Statistics SA has set itself a number of key priorities, which will inform its work during the ensuing period. These include tabling the draft Statistics Act Amendment Bill in parliament, sustaining the quality of national indicators, driving a transformation and changed agenda, dissemination of Census 2022 results to the nation, conducting the outcome and expenditure survey. These set of priorities will continue to put Statistics SA as a pre-eminent data collection agency amongst its peers across the world. We will unpack some of these priorities below.

A national census of the population was conducted during 2022, the results of which will be released in the second quarter of the 2022-23 financial year. The census remains the biggest
mass mobilisation of any nation during peace times. In our case, as a country, census reaches out to every corner of our nation. It is one of those programmes that serves to assist in building nonracial and nonsexist democratic South Africa.

Statistics SA is hard at work with a downstream process of census processing. Once the work is complete, the SA Statistics Council – an independent body that advices the Minister and the Statistician-General will satisfy themselves that the numbers can stand the test of time after which process the Statistician-General will then announce the date of the release of the results. The census found a bedrock of long-term planning and will immensely benefit our nation as we seek solutions to provide better life for all. Ensuing from the release of census data, Statistics SA will embark on a stakeholder engagement process to assist stakeholders in both private and public sector to fully graph the numerical data therein, extensive use of media campaigns and electronic tools at national, provincial and district levels will be deployed.

In line with international statistics standards, Statistics SA will in 2023-24 continue to publish 230 statistical releases and reports invariably to track our national economic indicators. These reports are the lifeblood of our society as
they provide numeric data that inform decision-making in the four sectors of our economy. Many institutions, including government departments rely on these pieces of data to support and anchor their organisational decisions.

The population and social statistics will continue to deliver key national socioeconomic indicators by publishing 53 statistical releases and reports in 2023-24 in line with the international statistics standards and practices. Statistics SA received funding allocation to conduct an income and expenditure survey that collects data on the poverty situation in the country.

The survey will be completed in the 2023-24 financial year and results will be published in 2024. The numeric data that we will issue out of this survey will be crucial to guide government intervention on a number of areas. We will better appreciate and comprehend the granular characteristics of our income and inequality patterns. We extend our appreciation to the Select Committee on Health and Social Services for the supportive work. We will hold Statistics SA for account to the South African public at all times, as the Statistician-General is fond of saying.

Ke feleletsa teng fano. Ke a leboga.


Mr E Z NJADU: Good afternoon, hon House Chair, acknowledging the hon Ministers, hon MECs, hon members of the National Council of Provinces. The debate is about the mainstreaming of women, youth, and persons with disabilities and to transform their lives.

The ANC consistently reiterates its commitment in protecting and promoting the rights of all marginalised groups. It is for this reason that the Ministry of Women, Youth, and Persons with Disabilities was formed in 2019. The department was tasked with spearheading socioeconomic transformation and promoting the empowerment and inclusion of women, youth, and persons with disabilities. This will be done through mainstreaming, advocacy, monitoring, and evaluation efforts.
The department’s authority stems from the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, specifically section 9(3), which prohibits unfair discrimination based on various grounds, including race, gender, disability, and more. Section 10 of the Constitution emphasizes the inherent dignity of every individual and their right to have it respected and protected.
To elevate the importance of women, youth, and persons with disabilities at the government level, the President announced the establishment of the Ministry for Women, Youth, and Persons with Disabilities in May 2019 with the primary objective of the department to ensure the integration of gender, disability, and youth development across governance, the economy, and all aspects of state functions and social life. One of its key responsibilities is to co-ordinate, monitor, evaluate, and incorporate gender equality analysis into the fight against poverty. To fulfill its mandate effectively, the department aims to develop a robust policy framework that provides the necessary authority for co- ordination and oversight.

The department developed three legislative proposals recently, notable: the National Council on Gender Based Violence and Femicide Bill, the National Youth Development Agency Amendment Bill, and the Promotion of Women’s Rights, Empowerment, and Gender Equality Bill. However, due to the pressing need for urgent action on gender-based violence and femicide, the department only introduced the National Council on Gender- Based Violence and Femicide Bill and the National Youth Development Agency Amendment Bill to Parliament. The Promotion of Women’s Rights, Empowerment, and Gender Equality Bill is
scheduled to be presented to Parliament in the following fiscal year, 2023-24, in accordance with section 73 of the Constitution.

The ANC supports these pieces of legislation as they enable the work of inclusion of the marginalized ... [Interjections.]
... national groups and advancing the fight against the gender-based violence and femicide. The ANC believes that these policies are necessary for the journey to advance the challenges of women and youth.

A segment of the South African population consisting of women, youth, and persons with disabilities faces a higher vulnerability to poverty and social exclusion compared to the general population. The revised Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, for the period 2019-24 recognizes the need for specific attention and efforts at all levels of policy, planning of the National Strategic Plan, NSP, on gender-based violence and femicide, guided by the approved gender-based violence and femicide NSP, Monitoring and Evaluation Framework at national, provincial, and local levels.

Hon House Chair, on women mainstreaming, the effectiveness of the National Strategic Plan on gender-based violence and
femicide will primarily rely on the level of local ownership and commitment across all three spheres of government. Local and provincial government play a crucial role in this regard due to their proximity to communities.

On youth mainstreaming, in response to this urgent situation, the National Youth Development Programme, NYDP, is actively pursuing its mandate of developing regulatory measures to empower youth socioeconomically. As part of this effort, the DWYPD has developed and obtained approval for the National Youth Policy, NYP, 2020-30. The NYP 2030 provides guidance to stakeholders involved in youth development, highlighting key areas of intervention to promote the fulfillment of young people’s constitutional rights to social justice, social integration, and inclusion as active contributors to their communities and society.

Furthermore, the Monitoring and Evaluation Framework for the National Youth Policy 2020-30, which was developed through consultations with various sectors, with youth being involved themselves, has been endorsed by Cabinet in September 2022.
This framework monitors the progress of youth interventions aligned with the five pillars of the National Youth Policy. It serves as a central data hub for measuring the impact of youth
development initiatives and enhancing accountability, accessible to government leaders, youth, and other stakeholders.

The Monitoring and Evaluation Framework outlines the approach to generate reliable and accurate data consistently, including the Theory of Change, expected outcomes of the NYP 2030, an extensive M&E plan with objectives, quantitative and qualitative indicators, baselines, targets, and strategies for data collection, analysis, reporting, and utilization, Furthermore, the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities has drafted the South African Youth Development, SAYD, Bill, which serves as a comprehensive legislative framework for youth development in the country. Upon its enactment, the SAYD Act will govern and regulate youth development initiatives.

On mainstreaming persons with disabilities, the lack of specific disability legislation poses significant challenges to the institutionalization of disability mainstreaming, inclusion targeting, programming, and reporting. Without enforceable laws, it becomes difficult to ensure compliance and accountability in incorporating disability considerations into planning and implementation processes. This hinders the
achievement of socio-economic transformation for individuals with disabilities and exacerbates intersecting challenges they face.

The ANC calls for the fast-tracking of capacitation of Advocacy and Mainstreaming Chief Directorate with Human Resource to help with the institutionalization of matter of persons with disabilities. The development of legislation is needed with urgency too. The South African Law Reform Commission’s processes and systems the process towards development of the disability legislation.

Lastly, there is a greater need for all the stakeholders involved to act with a sense of urgency to help accelerate the mainstreaming of the empowerment of people living with disabilities. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Thank you very much.

Mr K M MMOIEMANG: Greetings to the House Chair, the Minister on the virtual platform and the Deputy Ministers in the House.


Badirammogo ba me ba ba teng fano, le ...

... our special delegates on the virtual platform ...


... le baagi ba Aforekaborwa ka kakaretso, dumelang.


House chair, allow me to also join our Comrades, the Speaker and the Chief Whip in conveying the message of condolences to Comrade Tina’s family, her sister, in particular, Andre Joemat and her two sons, with the words of the one of the authors and scriptwriter, Richard Russo, I quote: “Lives are like rivers: eventually they go where they must, not where we want them to.” The family would have loved to have had their sister, daughter, mom still with them, also the family of the ANC would have loved to have Comrade Tina still to be with us, but unfortunately, life like the rivers, eventually decided to go where it wanted to.

Therefore, it made us to lose one of our senior leaders who was produced by the struggle of the Northern Cape, our former Chair of the Communist Party, the former Provincial Treasurer, the former member of executive council, MEC, of Education and of Agriculture who during her position at the helm of the
Education department, the province of the Northern Cape was in top three, and at some point, we were living in terms of the matric results. So ...


... go ba lelapa, mmogo le ba lekoko la ANC ka re, sidilegang maikutlo.

House Chair, I don’t see my watch here.



MODULASETILO WA NTLO (Mme W Ngwenya): O santse o na le nako.

Mr K M MMOIEMANG: Thank you, House Chair. Chair, my debate and participation to this debate on monitoring and evaluation, is dedicated to Comrade Tina. The theme of my debate is: Enhancing planning, monitoring and evaluation to accelerate the attainment of the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, and the National Development Plan, NDP targets. House Chair, in the beginning of each term of each administration, the ANC- led government has translated its manifesto which was overwhelmingly accepted by the majority of the South Africans to develop a Medium-Term Strategic Framework.
This has been in line with the policy framework of government, depending in terms of the alignment of government policy and the manifesto, we have implemented policies and also intensive interventions to ensure that they are in line with the Constitution, thereby, prioritising the alignment of the government implementation of the manifesto of the governing party because, as the ANC, we take credence from how we view our relations with the state.

We have always treated the state as the tribune of the people, not as the tools to be micromanaged. Also, our interaction with the state is within the framework of our policies, but also more than that, in terms of the constitutional South Africa. Therefore, it is imperative that when we debate the budget policy of the last financial year of the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, we should reflect on the work that the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation has covered over this period.

We therefore have to make sure that a strategic reflection is made, on the progress that we have made in terms of implementing the Medium-Term Strategic Framework. In doing so, House Chair, a critical engagement on this budget policy debate is quite important, and when we do that, we
problematise the key strategic aspect of the mandate on the ministry of the department. It is important that we accelerate key areas, and the first one is around ensuring there is an access policy interface between policy planning and budgeting.

The second one relates to strengthening the intervention authority of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation. The third one is ensuring that we strengthen the performance information and performance reporting. The fourth one is in terms of ensuring that we entrench the District Development Model, DDM, across the three spheres of government, and lastly, we will then give a progress in terms of the Medium-Term Strategic Framework.

House Chair, the first contextual and theoretical aspect which we should consider is on the mandate of the department, which is ensuring that there is an alignment of department’s strategic and annual plans and budget allocations with the government’s Medium-Term Strategic Framework, which is a critical access in order for the government to evaluate the impact of the evaluation of policies and legislation. Such implementation of policies and legislation should have been implemented in ... [Inaudible.] ... and financing ... [Inaudible.] ...
Without adequate planning and sufficient resourcing, we cannot even evaluate whether policies and legislation are making the desired impact in the society. With that said, the department will have to make the budgeting prioritisation framework which ensures that there is a budgeting and planning measures. An area which requires the department to develop a mechanism to ensure alignment, is a policy implementation prioritisation we make, which ensures that the programmes developed by various departments and entities give full expression for the object of policies and legislation.

This also speaks to the causal links of planning and budgeting. Our observation as the ANC is that the budget is a critical focus, yet there shouldn’t be an initial causality of the budgeting process. This, hon members, take us to the debate and the problem of the unfunded mandates. The unfunded mandates are a result of multiple factors with resource allocation as a critical factor, and in other instances, poor planning results in abandoned mandates. Planning is fundamental in giving full expression of a department and resources, and it should be a consequence of comprehensive planning, to ensure that planning and prioritisation is sufficiently undertaken to ensure optimum impact of the implementation of the various mandate of state organs.
The policy implementation prioritisation it can be a critical intervention to increase the impact of policies and legislation. Therefore, the unfunded mandates, House Chair, needs to be evaluated on a continuous basis, to ascertain aspects which are not being implemented, to enable a continuous assessment of the strategies that can be developed within allocated funds, as such, unfunded mandates respond to a problem which persists.

House Chair, we need to also focus on strengthening the authority of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation in relation to the authority of the recommendations that it makes. Without sufficient authority of enforcement and noncompliance to its recommendations, it creates a weakness in the mandate of the department. Therefore, the strategic location of the Department in the Presidency is to ensure that there is strategic co-ordination, as the role of the ministry is embedded in the strategic mandate of the Presidency.

The Presidency is mandated to ensure that the President can execute his constitutional responsibilities in leading and galvanising the government and society to implement their electoral mandate. House Chair, the legislative or policy interventions are critical with regards to ensuring the
government machinery is synchronised and function in the reinforced manner. Therefore, the monitoring key in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework targets the enabling interventions by the Cabinet and the President is pivotal, if the department is to realise its objective existence in the Presidency.

House Chair, another key area, which is the third one, and which we have overemphasised, is the fact that the recent Auditor-General Municipal Audit Report has reflected, citing poor planning which is caused by the quality of information provided and standards of performance indicators, the Deputy Minister Morolong, has also alluded to this, the issue of quality information. In the report, the Auditor-General makes an observation of the weakness of their side of the lack of the sufficient scrutiny of the performance information due to the significance focus on financial performance.

Such a weakness is due to a focus on finances without adequately factoring in the significance of performance planning, performance information and performance reporting as key areas that requires an enhanced intervention. This, hon members, is linked on enhancing authority of the department prevailing on performance management matters. House Chair, the
department has to increase its human capabilities and capacity to strengthen planning in government beyond conceptual planning through strategic plans and annual performance planning, but getting into strengthening operational planning, which is currently not sufficiently scrutinised, nor required by the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation.

Therefore, it is important that we ensure that all state organs have adequate operational plans which give expression to the Annual Performance Plan, APP, which will enable the effective monitoring of the budget prioritisation framework. The fourth one, they need to ensure that we entrench the District Development Model across all three spheres of government. Chair, this is very critical because, institutionalising intergovernmental relations at the decentralised level by all spheres of government cannot be overemphasised.

Therefore, developing economies from a district level through aligned national and provincial economy planning, is crucial as districts have both competitive and comparative advantages, which can be leveraged for economic development. Therefore, we recognise that the department is delaying and is able to convey the district indicators which will be able to help the
District Development Model. The last area, Chair ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): I want to assist you because you don’t have timing.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): You’ve got one minute, and 48 seconds left.

Mr K M MMOIEMANG: Thank you, House Chair. Chair, the progress on the implementation of the medium-term strategic implementation was adequately canvassed by Minister Maropene Ramokgopa, and she covered the areas from the need to strengthen the capable and ethical developmental state capacity that was alluded to, and she also made reference to the economic transformation and job creation.

It is important just to reiterate the fact that, in terms of the capable and ethical developmental state, we appreciate the progress that it has been made in regard to the professionalisation framework. We also appreciate the work that has been done in terms of the economic transformation in
regard to the Special Economic Zones, SEZ, more so, the announcement by the Cabinet that Namakwa Special Economic Zone will also be prioritised. The third point, Chair, we appreciate the progress that has been made in regard to education skills, but more than that, is the fact that the National Health Insurance, NHI, system, is now on the road to this House.

Also, what is quite critical, Chair, is that, we observe that key progress areas has been made by the ANC-led government, and for such progress to be attained, planning is critical and the sectoral monitoring reports of the department aids intervention and the strategic focus of government. On that note, House Chair, the ANC supports the Budget Vote of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Ms D C CHRISTIANS: Hon House Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister, and fellow South Africans, good day. Youth unemployment and the empowerment of persons with disabilities have become critical issues and the Department of Women, Youth, and Persons with Disabilities has failed to address these matters. The department’s budget, annual performance
plans and program for the upcoming year paints a picture of inefficiency and neglect.

Let us start with the issue of youth unemployment. Despite a minor decrease in the youth unemployment rate, the labour market remains hostile to our young citizens. The number of unemployed youths has increased by 2% to a staggering
4,8 million. This alarming figure clearly indicates the department’s inability to create an environment conducive to youth unemployment. Their so-called National Youth Development Programme has proven to be nothing more than empty promises and ineffective initiatives.

While the department applauds the reduction in youth unemployment, it conveniently ignores the fact that this decrease is a mere drop in the ocean. It fails to acknowledge the systemic issues that continue to plague our youth, denying them their constitutional rights to social justice, social integration, and inclusion. The National Youth Policy, NYP, 2020-30, which they boast about, is merely a document devoid of substantial action and impact.

The Monitoring and Evaluation Framework developed by the department is nothing more than a smokescreen. Whilst it
claims to enhance accountability and measure impact, the reality is that it is just another bureaucratic tool that does little to address the urgent needs of our youth. The framework’s complexity and lack of tangible outcomes reflect the department’s misplaced priorities and its failure to deliver real results.

Furthermore, the collaboration with the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, is nothing but a façade. The Integrated Youth Development Strategy, IYDS, that they celebrate is a patchwork of uncoordinated initiatives that do little to address the root causes of youth unemployment. The NYDA itself has been plagued by mismanagement and a lack of clear direction, rendering it ineffective in its mission to support and empower young people.

Turning our attention to persons with disabilities, it is disheartening to witness the department’s disregard for their rights and wellbeing. The Advocacy and Mainstreaming Chief Directorate, responsible for ensuring the inclusion and empowerment of persons with disabilities, is severely understaffed and lacks the necessary human resources to fulfil its mandate. This glaring oversight reveals the department’s negligence and disrespect towards this marginalised group.
The slow progress in developing disability legislation is a clear indication of the department’s apathy towards the rights of persons with disabilities. Relying on external parties and dragging their feet in the development processes showcases a lack of commitment and urgency. The misalignment between national, provincial, and local government further highlights the department’s failure to create a cohesive and comprehensive agenda for disability rights.

The appointment of disability focal persons is a mere token gesture, with many lacking decision-making powers or influence. Programs for persons with disabilities are absent from the annual performance plans of departments and the integrated development plans of municipalities, emphasizing the department’s negligence in ensuring adequate budget allocation and meaningful support.

First and foremost, the department must overhaul its approach to youth unemployment. It needs to move beyond superficial policies and empty rhetoric and instead focus on tangible solutions. This means investing in job creation initiatives, providing quality education and skills development programs, and fostering an environment that supports entrepreneurship and economic transformation. The department must prioritize
the needs of our youth and ensure that their constitutional rights to social justice and inclusion are upheld.

Additionally, the department must address the glaring shortcomings in its collaboration with the National Youth Development Agency. The NYDA should be a driving force in empowering young people, but it has become a bureaucratic mess, plagued by mismanagement and inefficiency. The department must take immediate steps to rectify this situation, providing the NYDA with clear guidance, effective leadership, and the necessary resources to carry out its mandate.

When it comes to persons with disabilities, the department’s neglect is deeply concerning. It must urgently address the lack of human resources within the Advocacy and Mainstreaming Chief Directorate. Without a fully capacitated team, the department cannot effectively advocate for the rights of persons with disabilities and ensure their inclusion in all aspects of society.

Furthermore, the department must expedite the development of disability legislation. Relying on external parties and stalling the process is a disservice to persons with
disabilities who deserve equal rights and opportunities. The department must take ownership of this process, actively engaging with stakeholders and expediting the necessary steps to enact comprehensive disability legislation.

In conclusion, the Department of Women, Youth, and Persons with Disabilities has failed in its mandate to uplift and empower our women, youth, and persons with disabilities. It is imperative that the department takes immediate action to rectify these shortcomings, prioritize the needs of our most vulnerable citizens, and work towards creating a society that is truly inclusive and equitable for all.

The DA remains committed to ensuring accountability within the department and advocating for the rights and wellbeing of our youth and persons with disabilities.

As we approach the 2024 elections, we are determined to bring about the realisation of the moonshot pact, which will result in the ANC being unseated. Through this endeavour, we will create a safer environment for women, provide ample job opportunities for the youth, and ensure that individuals with disabilities are treated with the utmost dignity and respect they deserve. I thank you.
Ms B FANTA (Eastern Cape): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Ministers and Deputy Ministers present here and the all the MECs present from various provinces. I rise here on behalf of the Eastern Cape government to participate in this very important debate on matters affecting the youth, women and persons with disabilities. This debate takes place at a time where as a country, we are commemorating the Youth Month, under the theme, Accelerating Youth Economic Emancipation for a Sustainable Future. Therefore, acceleration of economic empowerment of young people, women and those with disabilities has never been less urgent. It is therefore important that we reinforce our efforts in calling for equalisation of opportunities, lifelong learning and economic opportunities for youth.

As described by the National Policy Framework, the issue of these vulnerable as the province has been put under premier’s office so that decisions are taken. Also, in all government departments, these groups are under HODs so that stricter decisions are taken. Hon members, there is a great consensus to scale up on youth development interventions now more than ever. This means that we must scale up skills development initiatives targeting this group of young people.
Furthermore, the empowerment of women Furthermore, the empowerment and development of youth and women through funding of income-generating co-operatives, skills development and support programmes constitute a key strategy to realize social transformation of local communities in the province of the Eastern Cape. In partnership with the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA and other stakeholders 1 916 young people will benefit from skills development programmes and will expand coverage and diversity of youth skills development programme to the tune of R10 million.


Siyaqhuba apha eMpuma Koloni.


Again, many young people in our province carry the heavy load of student debt. This affects their aspirations to improve their lives and the livelihood of their families. Last year, as the Eastern Cape Provincial government, we intervened to provide student debt relief amounting to R50 million for students in our four local universities. Again, this year, the Premier of the Eastern Cape, pronounced in the state of the province address our intent as a province to invest another
R50 million to assist students in distress. Now, this is a sign of a caring government.

Siyaqhuba singulo rhulumente...


 ...we do not have empty promises. Hon members, a few years ago, the Eastern Cape Provincial Government set up a fund dedicated for young people and called it Isiqalo Youth Fund. The aim was to assist young entrepreneurs to take the first steps into the world of business. There is now more demand for Isiqalo seed funding from young entrepreneurs in our province. This fund has grown from strength to strength and an amount of R100 million has been committed over three years for this fund. The province is confident this investment in the young people of our province will give us better returns in terms of job creation.

Hon Chairperson, young people are also vulnerable to a plethora of social ills. Young people are exposed to self- destructive, unhealthy, and risky behaviours which prevent them from reaching their potential. Our provincial outlook on teenage pregnancy records 17,1%, of teenage girls between 10-
19 years who fall pregnant. We have also introduced Social Behavioural Change Programmes as an immediate intervention that enables young people to make more informed choices to reduce HIV/Aids infections and the prevention of teenage and unplanned pregnancies. An amount of R10,5 million has been set aside to support 14 organisations that provide Social Behaviour Change programmes in our communities targeting about
62 477 beneficiaries.

Substance abuse by young people affects everyone in all societies, either directly or indirectly. Hence, the combined impact of these challenges on individuals and families is profound and the need for urgent, collective and consistent action could not be clearer. To this effect, the Executive Council has approved the Provincial Drug Master Plan 2022-2027 to ensure amongst other things, that those who need treatment, aftercare and support have access to it.

Chairperson, the founding fathers of our democracy had women in mind when they said:

South Africa should be a democratic, non-racial, non- sexist, prosperous country where people live together in harmony enjoying equal opportunities.
The African National Congress government is leading from the front in terms of affirming women into leadership positions with its 50/50 policy. As a result, gender parity has been achieved in political leadership structures of municipalities, provincial government departments and national government departments. In our province, the Eastern Cape, we further pride ourselves for attaining a 60/40 split for MECs in favour of women. The same applies to the HODs of our government departments we pride ourselves with 60/40 split in favour of women.

For the first time after 29 years, we have a woman who is a Secretary to Legislature for the first time. Those are the benefits of our lifetime government that respects women empowerment. Hon Chair, as the Sixth Administration, we are equally committed to scaling up our interventions of ensuring the full participation of women in our provincial economy.
Although 7 298 women-owned Eastern Cape based businesses benefitted from provincial government procurement spend to the value of R413 million in the previous financial year. We pride and pressure provincial executive and give them direction to increase that further more because we need 40% to be spent on women-owned Eastern Cape based businesses.

Asifuni amakhosikazi ajongelwe phantsi.


Furthermore, we will continue to prioritize interventions that promote the rights of women to achieve gender equality through the implementation of skills development, advocacy and sexual reproductive health and rights programmes benefiting 9 400 women and 21 women-led initiatives. The Department of Social Development is furthermore partnering with the United Nations Population Fund, UNFPA in developing the Provincial Women Empowerment and Equity Strategy which will provide guidance for the development and empowerment of women in the province.

The pandemic of violence against women and children is still very much prevalent. This financial year, 86 253 people will benefit from, Response, Care and Support programmes to victims of gender-based violence and femicide. Furthermore, we will implement skills development programmes for survivors of crime and violence in partnership with the Victim Empowerment Programme, VEP funded organizations, NYDA, business and the private sector in five districts which are Amatole District Municipality, Chris Hani District Municipality, Joe Gqabi District Municipality, OR Tambo District Municipality and
Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality as an exit plan. Hon members, greater focus is being made in promoting the social well-being and the socio-economic empowerment of Persons with disabilities and advancing their integration into the mainstream society. There are about 34 Community-Based Rehabilitation projects and nine Social Service organizations for the provision of Community-Based Rehabilitation Services targeting 21 984 family members for beneficiation to the tune of R129 million.

Sibahoyile nabo abantu abakhubazekileyo.



We will intensify our efforts towards the realization of National Development Plan, NDP Vision 2030 directives which calls for accelerated efforts to ensure the mainstreaming of disability, to extend to planning, service delivery and development interventions aimed at fighting unemployment, inequality and poverty. I agree that, we need to strengthen the extent of self-representation by persons with disabilities across strategic institutions. This includes their representation in governance structures and strengthening meaningful involvement of representative organisations in the
design and conceptualisation phase of policies, services and monitoring processes.

As I conclude Chairperson, we highly appreciate the opportunity to be given to debate in this budget vote. As the Eastern Cape, we support the budget and we are saying...


...phambili ngamakhosikazi, phambili ngabantu abakhubazekileyo, phambili, phambili ngolutsha, phambili!


PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES (Ms N G Tolashe): Hon Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Deputy Chairperson, Minister of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, Ministers and Deputy Ministers all chairpersons present, MECs from provinces that are represented here, good afternoon. Hon Chairperson ...

... ndivumele nam ndime neenkokeli zeli lizwe nombutho wam nditsho ndithi, silele sinyembezana, uwile umthi omkhulu. Sikuvile ukuwa kwegorhakazi lembokodo elinembali ecacicileyo ukulwa umzabalazo wabantu. Eli ibiligorhakazi ebelitshotsha
phambili ngalo lonke ixesha kusiliwa. Iinduma zakho zingaphambili qabane uTina. Hamba uye kulala kakuhle. Umsebenzi omhle uwezile, ugqatso ulufezile.


Hon Chairperson, it gives me great pleasure to present here today because this opportunity gives our department in an opportunity to solicit support of provinces in the implementation of programmes, such as the National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide. The gender responsive planning, budgeting, monitoring, evaluation, and auditing framework, and the Sanitary Dignity Programme which is critical to keep young girls at school.


Konke oku Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo kusikhumbuza ...


... one of our icons ...



... xa esithi, ...

... open quote:


To be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.

Sisinyanya somzabalazo ke eso, uRolihlahla Mandela.


Hon Chairperson, young women and women with disabilities will never be free as long as this rage against them continues. Our mandate is clear. I want to express this one. Our mandate is clear informed by the National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide. In order to ensure that this National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide is a living document, the department commenced the process of monitoring the integration of the plan during the 2021-22 financial year. To date, the department has reviewed the integration of this plan on gender-gender based violence priorities in the provincial department’s annual performance plan in North West, Western Cape, Eastern Cape and Gauteng.

The department also reviewed district development plans for some of the municipalities, in North West, Mpumalanga, Limpopo, Northern Cape and Western Cape. Again, hon
Chairperson the department is in the process of providing feedback to the municipalities through an integrated governmental relations structures and special feedback sessions in order to give guidance on the integration of the National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide’s priorities to the plans.

This exercise enables municipalities to identify their leadership role in the fight against gender-based violence in line with their mandate and budget as such. Working with SA Local Government Association, Salga the department was involved in the induction programme of councillors with the main objective of sharing information of the role of local political leadership in leading the fight against gender-based violence, through the localisation of our National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide.

The role of the political leadership on the localisation of the tender response planning, budgeting, monitoring and auditing framework was also covered during these sessions. As a result, working with Salga and Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta we have established rapid response teams in six provinces, which are Eastern Cape, Northern Cape, Gauteng, Free State, Mpumalanga and KwaZulu-
Natal. The function of these structures is to lead, co- ordinate and monitor the multi stakeholder’s efforts in the municipality to fight gender-based violence and ensure accountability. It is also to ensure that victims are provided with the co-ordinated support from all stakeholders, including departments and civil society organizations whenever there is an incident of gender-based violence.

We are in the process of building the capacity of rapid response teams in order to ensure that they effectively execute their function, in leading the fight against gender- based violence and femicide. The... [Inaudible] ... Enterprise and Development will in partnership with Africa ... [Inaudible] ... place 43 unemployed graduates at the municipalities where there are rapid response teams. Another project that the department has been implementing in partnership with the province - of the 100 Day Challenge in alignment with National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide.

In this case, each department has been given a special forecast based on the pillars for example, Francis Baard District Municipality in the Northern Cape, aims to reduce sexual offences, while the City of Tshwane Metropolitan
Municipality focuses on the evidence-informed programmes, safety audits and actions to reduce gender-based violence. The Mangaung Metropolitan Municipality in Free State concentrates on the goal to reduce the maintenance case backlog by 75% within 100 days and increase the finalisation rate of maintenance cases from 51% to 75%.

Greater Tzaneen Local Municipality in Limpopo aimed to increase the reporting of rape cases by 80% with a particular emphasis on rural areas. Lejweleputswa District Municipality in Free State focuses on increasing the referral of new gender-based violence cases reported by 300% to enhance
response, care, support and healing. In Limpopo and Mpumlanga, we are aiming at increasing engagement on gender-based violence femicide and sexual harassment. The Exxaro within 100 days had initiated a campaign to ensure the 10 000 pledges.
These challenges fostered collaboration, innovation and discipline execution leading to a tangible impact in addressing the gender-based violence.

Hon Chairperson, we are currently making a follow-up in the Western Cape on a serious gender-based violence case, which was picked up during the District Development Model Imbizo at the Drakenstein Local Municipality, at the O R. Tambo District
Minicipality in Lusikisiki in the Eastern Cape. We don’t leave any stone unturned on the GBV in this time around. However, the scourge will not end until we take responsibility to prevent it and report to law enforcement where it arises.

The persons with disabilities are the most affected by lack of access to quality education, economic inclusion, health and transport facilities. Therefore, it can be said that majority of them live in poverty, despite the social grants because disability on its own is costly. Poverty specifically is not a single factor, but rather it’s characterised by multiple physical and psychological factors. Whilst they experience many challenges, there are positive developments that we are worth celebrating.

We welcome the approval by Parliament on two important legislative mandates on the ratification of the African Union, AU Protocol on Disability which is due to be deposited in the African Union and the constitutional amendment of South African Sign Language as the 12th official language of South Africa as the Minister had already indicated. Despite the constitutional guarantee for equal access to opportunities in education, employment and health for all, including persons with disabilities and prohibits of discrimination on the basis
of disability, persons with disabilities remain disadvantaged among South Africans, poor and uneducated.

In response to this challenge, the department hosted a national summit to access to education for persons with disabilities in partnership with the Department of Basic Education, followed by the economic summit and for persons with disability to identify gaps and challenges and limiting barriers to access into the mainstream economy by persons with disabilities.

The summits sought to further and maximize the active participation of persons with disabilities in all economic initiatives, interventions and opportunities created by government and private sector as employees and entrepreneurs. This year we will be hosting and collaborating with the Department of Transport a national summit on access to transport for persons with disabilities.

IsiXhosa: Siyaqhuba.

The data collected by the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA on employment of persons with disabilities in the purple service shows only 1% on employment of persons with disabilities. Therefore, deliberate concept effort should be made to reach the 7% targeted by 2023 in line with the National Development Plan.

The department has identified a number of barriers that limit access to employment of persons with disabilities. One of those identified was the perception regarding provision of reasonable accommodation and to that end the department research on the cost. We have conducted awareness and we are confident that with all the information in our hand, we will be able to address the challenges that are faced by the women, gender-based violence and people with disabilities. I thank you.

Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Hon Chairperson and hon members, I do not know I want to say hon Minister, but I do not know if the hon Minister or the Deputy Ministers are here.

Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Alright. Thank you very much. I do not think the hon Kekana is here.

Oh there you are, hon Kekana. Alright. Fantastic. I am sorry. Anyway. Welcome hon Minister and hon Deputy Minister. I am glad you are here. For I want to chat about you later.

Alright. This combined debate includes reflection on the budget for the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation.

It is common cause that this department is housed neatly under the Presidency, existing to support the government’s strategic objectives and priorities. In other words, the government’s predetermined objectives. The problem with predetermined outcomes is that those tasked with achieving them become blinded by the end goal at all costs, to the point of ignoring reality.

Dr Thabisi Hoeane, from the University of SA – Pretoria has said as follows and I quote:

How many discourse has been focused on the role of the new Ministry of Electricity, but what is ignored is that curious
Ministry located in the Presidency for “planning, monitoring and evaluation”.

If there’s a Ministry that is useless, it is this one. What does this Ministry plan? There are already government plans to be implemented by each Ministry. Ostensibly this Ministry monitors what other ministries are doing. But for what purpose? Does the country really need a Minister and a Deputy Minister to watch what other Ministries are doing? Why not just an administrative unit within the Presidency to do this?

Minister Ramokgopa stood up – she was on the screen earlier, which she said it was her and unless we believe her. She appeared and said effectively summerised what all the other departments are doing. That is not evaluation. That is summerising. There is no skin in that.

What about evaluation? Ostensibly, this means that this Ministry assesses whether the other Ministries are performing or not and report to the President to take appropriate action. However, the reality is that Ministries misfire every year and the President never acts.
An example is the following: Ministers are wantonly disregarding the Ministerial Handbook on stipulations about their benefits, yet nothing is being done about this. All the above indicates that South Africa is a land of “political pork”. The ANC is so beholden to so many interests that it has to accommodate so many, to the point where people are “employed” to do nothing.

This is particularly true of Deputy Minister Pinky Kekana who was hauled before the Parliamentary Ethics Committee for receiving R170 000 from the notorious Edwin Sodi, the serial tenderpreneur and serial promise breaker. To add insult to injury, the Ethics Committee allowed the Deputy Minister Kekana to keep “secret” the reasons why she received the Sodi cash in the first place. Absolutely bizarre!

This issue was raised by the Zondo Commission, but like all other commissions, is inconvenient to the hyenas of corruption and as such is ignored and buried bit by bit.

The end result is that the Department of Planning Monitoring and Evaluation is an obedient poodle rather than an aggressive watchdog, kicking up a fuss only when the ANC agenda trumps the interest of the people.
Another example of fastidiously backing predetermined fantasies and ignoring the facts on the ground is the lack of implementation of what the department trumpets as the “localisation of interventions”. The department fails at this hurdle when it realises that these local interventions actually mean decentralisation. That is when the buffering and short-circuiting starts.

You see, to quote the hon Mbhele, of the DA, the DA has long advocated for the principle of decentralisation, whereby local and provincial governments that are proven to be competent should be enabled to take the lead role of planning and implementation in areas of concurrent governance and competence, with the necessary management authority and resources from the national fiscus, in order to better meet the needs of the communities.

However, the Minster and her compromised Deputy Minister, would rather be dragged through a field of glass than assist the DA with its objectives, no matter how sensible and good they are.

If the National Development Plan, NDP, is indeed taken seriously by this government, then it must be given ample
opportunity to be pursued in multiple and adaptive ways through a decentralised model.

The critical issue to understand is what the government’s strategic priorities are. Whilst the Department of Planning Monitoring and Evaluation’s annual performance plan, APP, cites the constitution and a raft of other documents we all know that the sun is setting on the ANC. [Ilanga liyashona ku- ANC.] And the real priorities are cronyism and cadre deployment. Now I knew they get ... [Inaudible.]

Anyway, to get as much as possible, when they can, and ship it off to the friends in Russia, China and the United Arab Emirates, UAE, while they still can. In this context, all the documents and plans mean absolutely nothing to South Africans struggling to survive.

Minister, Zulu, who spoke earlier in the House on the previous debate, was quite right that you cannot turn around 500 years of oppression in such a short space of time. She is quite correct. However, and unfortunately, it does not lend that point when the people of South Africa see this government stealing and looting as much as they can possibly can along the way. If they saw a genuine attempt to turn things around
then they will understand. However, the ANC cannot sit here and deny that none of that is happening. Remember the Zondo Commission, go and have a look.

Alright, then also she mentioned the homeless. Well you know why the people are on the streets, because you stuffed up the economy. That is why and that is exactly why. If this Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation was serious was serious, it would immediately recommend – hon Chairperson what is happening about drowning the speaker?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, hon members if I can remind you now that, please do not drown the speaker, there is nothing wrong with heckling! But please, it must be done in such a way of not drowning the speaker!

Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Thank you, hon Chairperson. If this department is serious and it immediately recommends that government get out of the way and allow business and civic stakeholders to play a more active role in harnessing our country’s resources and unleashing the massive potential out there to create value that expands opportunities and improves livelihoods.
If this department meant business, it would urge the Presidency to immediately and completely deregulate power regulation and provide incentives to homeowners to employ solar and allow new members to come in, and for local and provincial governments to innovate through partnerships that can solve the load shedding crisis.

If this government cared about the working class, it would recommend the deregulation of the labour regime to remove the barriers and disincentives to labour-intensive industry and other economic activity that can absorb the massive pool of unskilled, and particularly inexperienced, surplus labour.

But this government is not serious about any of the above. It is only serious about propping up President Ramaphosa’s regime with predetermined outcomes and to hell with the rest.

How else does one explain the focus of the budget on administration, which is civil servant speak for fat salaries
– and relegating evidence and knowledge systems to the bottom of the expenditure greased pole. How else can explain the focus when the research projects initiated in order to support of the implementation of the NDP have been reduced from four to one? How else can you experiment when you realise the
number of stakeholder engagement reports produced per year has suffered exactly the same fate - from number four to number one?

Even the Minister is concerned that local governments are still lagging behind when it comes to the regulation and coordination of the country’s planning and monitoring systems. She has conceded that there is a disconnect at a municipal level - the sphere of government that is closest to communities that need the services.

To make a specific point, how does the Minister align the state of water and sanitation in eThekwini and the seeming inability of the municipal department to spend the money allocated to it and they have only spent 38% so far with the toothless approach of the Department of Water and Sanitation that cannot even force compliance with directives and even court action?

The reality is that the department is lacking in the following areas: Institutional ownership of monitoring and evaluation, organisational understanding of the role of monitoring and evaluation, clear knowledge management strategy, human
resources technical capacity and poorly designed results frameworks and organisational goals.

The hon Labuschagne and I am glad she has rejoined us said earlier, “Show me your budget, and I will show you your priorities.”

The priorities required that I spoke about above are not evident in this budget and as such the DA cannot support it. I will tell you what is happening from the Department of Planning Monitoring and Evaluation point of view, the DA is planning victory in 2024. We are monitoring the progress of the Moonshot Pact and South Africans will monitor how we turn things around. I thank you.




Chairperson of the NCOP, the chairperson of the select committee, Ministers and Deputy Ministers in the Presidency, Chief Whip of the Majority Party, hon members of the NCOP, fellow South Africans. When she presented the Statistics SA
Budget Vote on 9 May 2023, the hon Minister in the Presidency, Ms Khumbudzo Ntshavheni, indicated that:

Statistics SA, as the agency responsible for the production of official statistics and coordination of our National Statistics System has an important role to play in government’s attainment of our country’s developmental goals as set out in the National Development Plan.

This therefore implies that for us to achieve our objectives for vision 2030, we need an informed and reliable source to allocate our resources for a better life for all. This assertion has been emphasized further again by the hon Minister in the Stats SA work programme for 2023-2024. On it she states that:

Data and information are key to ensure that the policies that we develop are based on facts and not anecdote.

Hon Chairperson, Statistics SA is a very critical component for our planning because science has proven that when you have committed yourselves to the search for most valid results, you aim at achieving this at all costs. In the book titled The
Practice of Social Research, Babbie et al. have indicated that:

Even when the scientific community accept certain point of view, hypothesis and theories has valid and plausible with this acceptance is based on the best available evidence at a given point in time.

We in South Africa therefore rely in various institutions for evidence on socioeconomic challenges faced by our people such as Stats SA.

The Statics Act 6, of 1999 on the other hand, states that:

The purpose of official statistics is to assist organs of state, businesses, other organs of public in planning, decision making or other actions, monitoring or assessment of policies, decision making and other actions.

The above therefore serves as a critical reason for the existence of Stats SA. Above all, it is the reason for its existence hence there is a need to ensure that it is well
capacitated and allocated the resources that is required for functioning optimally.

It is because of the data from the Stats SA that we know today that the majority of our people facing immense challenges with their livelihoods. Today, we know that based on census 2022 results, females are more impoverished than males with poverty head count 58,6% as compared to 54,9% of males.

Cervical cancer incidents and morality rates were highest amongst black African women. White males had the highest prostate cancer incident rates, followed by coloured males, while black African and Asian Indians had lower and almost the same incident rates.

Almost two third of agricultural households are in KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape and Limpopo combined.
Forty-one-point five percent of household in Limpopo use solid fuel for cooking as compared to 10,9% nationally.

The above are but just some of the key findings of the census and they would definitely help us to develop proper plan and allocation of our resources towards the achievements of our national Development Plan.
On programme performance hon members, the Statistics SA has a total of seven programmes which address various areas of performance; that includes administration, economic statistics, population and social statistics, methodology and statistics infrastructures, statical support in formatics and statical operations and provincial coordination and lastly SA National Statistic System.

We are waiting eagerly to receive the 2022-2023 annual audited report for Stats SA. We hope that it will do better in some programme performance areas as compared to 2021-2022. I must say this because I have noted with concern that in 2021-2022 Stats SA did not do well in the achievement of its targets especially in programme 1, which is administration.

The Annual Report for 2021-2022 has shown that we were able to achieve only 31,8% of our annual target. Also programme 5 and programme 6 were at 50%, 58,3% respectively. It is a matter of concern that a total of 68,2% of targets for programme 1 was not achieved and we are hoping that there would be a lot of improvement after the final audit of performance information for 2022-2023.
However, we must also send our greatest appreciation for the performance of other programmes in the same financial year. Programme 7 achieved 100%, Programmes 2 and 3 were above 90%, whereas Programme 4 achieved 83,3%. This is the good story to tell and demonstrate accountability and the value for money for the taxpayers.

We must emphasize that it is important for us to achieve 100% of all annual performance targets for all the programmes. We also want to give assurance to the House that we would continue to support Stats SA and execute our oversight responsibilities to ensure that we achieve all the plans and targets as indicated in Stats SA work programme for 2023 and 2024.

As I conclude, let quote the data scientist, Edwards Deming on the importance of statistics, he once said “Without data you are just another person with an opinion”. Last but not least, we also extend our appreciation for the support and the role played by the NCOP members to ensure the promotion of cooperative governance and intergovernmental relations. I support the budget vote. Thank you.
Ms S B LEHIHI: Chairperson, this year we are celebrating 10 years since the formation of the EFF. It has been 10 years of fighting for the rights of Women, Youth and Persons living with Disabilities and 10 years of unbroken commitment to fighting for service delivery. We are celebrating 10 years of holding the executive accountable and monitoring service delivery in all spheres of government.

Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budget Vote for Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities; Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and that of Statistics SA. We reject the budget of a department which renders women vulnerable as women still face a number of challenges in South Africa such as poverty, unemployment and violence. South Africa is a country with high levels of gender-based violence and women remain vulnerable to violence in the form of assaults, sexual violence and homicide at random, within their communities, families and especially from their intimate partners. So much that gender-based violence remains one of the most prevalent issues facing women and girls.

This country continues to top international rankings of sexual violence and reported cases of rape and levels of violence against women seem to be increasing rather than decreasing.
This is even though the SA Police Service reports decreases in the number of rapes per quarter. Women continue to be marginalised, do not have access to land or employment and have limited access to healthcare and education. The youth also continue to be disadvantaged in the labour market, with an unemployment rate higher than the national average.

Girls and young women are particularly vulnerable to socioeconomic challenges in South Africa’s patriarchal society and they often find themselves compromising their sexual and reproductive health to survive from day to day. Persons living with disabilities, the deaf in particular, remain doubly disadvantaged because they face both discrimination and marginalisation in society. Many of the four million deaf people in South Africa are frequently denied opportunities as the government has dragged its feet in recognising sign language as an official language.

People living with disabilities of this country are not catered for in this budget. This budget does nothing to address the lack of access to adequate treatments and resources. Medical resources are still confined to the urban areas whilst the number of disabled people is more in rural areas than in the urban areas. The distance required to travel
from more remote areas to find healthcare combined with fewer financial resources to travel are obstacles to accessing and benefiting from treatment. The Center and Home for Children and Disabled Women in Wolmranstad to this date ...


 ... ga bana dijo kgotsa motlakase. Ga gona tshegetso epe go tswa go Lefapha la Basadi, Bana le Batho ba ba Tshelang ka Bogole. Ga gona le bathusi kgotsa dingaka go thusa bagodi.
Mokgwa o mokgatlho o o busang, o sa thuse ...



... the vulnerable leaves a lot to be desired. In terms of infrastructural development, the majority of governmental buildings do not accommodate people on wheelchairs. Therefore, many of the opportunities, economic participation they are excluded from participation. Silikhaya Disability Center, here in the Western Cape, houses over 100 people in a backyard of one of their founding member’s homes. This has been going on for over three years, despite attempts to seek assistance from Social Development and other departments.
Government has not responded positively to their request and land has not been allocated to this nonprofit organisation, NPO, that is serving the vulnerable people of our country.

Silikhaya runs a gardening project to feed and support its members.


 ... mme ka maswabi, ga bana lefatshe. Puso e kgaotse letlole mme ga e bue ka thuso go batho ba ba tshelang ka bogole.
Siyalekhaya ke nngwe ya mafelo ale mantsi mo Aforika Borwa a a iponelang kgethololo e sisibanyang mmele gotswa mo pusong.


There are many people in Silikhaya and many other centers such as Tshwaraganang Day Care Center for Children with Disability in Potchefstroom in the North West where there are no basic services such as sanitation, funding, access to schools, resources such as wheelchairs, ramps and technological devices to help them navigate their daily lives.

Under the watchful eye of this department, persons with disabilities have a lower level of educational attainment.
Schools often have insufficient resources to accommodate children with disabilities, which leads to higher numbers of children with disabilities leaving the formal education system earlier than their nondisabled classmates. Chairperson, in Kgakala location, for example, there is a high school which has a disabled learner, but there exist no ramps in that school. There are many examples such as these, especially in the forgotten rural areas.

Children with disabilities are bullied or excluded from activities at school which increases the risk of them dropping out. Whilst participating in the labour force is also an ongoing challenge for persons with disabilities, those who find work, often part-time jobs, are paid less and are less likely to be promoted. Unstable employment and insufficient financial resources lead to many persons with disabilities being reliant on their families or social programmes, which puts them in a more vulnerable position. Your budget doesn’t speak to how to address tis challenges. It is therefore for this reason that we reject this budget.

Chairperson, the EFF have also on this and other platforms, always maintained that there is no monitoring of service delivery and this is why it will take 20 years to give our
people water despite all ANC President’s promises. We have for a period of 10 years said that there is no evaluation of government programmes to ensure that departments do what they plan according to the budget allocated and our people indeed are receiving services. And, we have said that since 2014, that we must close the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation. We said there is no need to have a Minister of planning, monitoring and evaluation.

We need to do away with this Ministry as a start. We were correct in 2014, we were correct in 2019 and we are still correct even today. We need to reduce the number of ministries because we still have ministries that are not adding value but are only used to manage squabbles inside the ANC. We must go back to one Ministry for Education. We must combine Social Development and Health. We must combine Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation.

Chairperson, it also appears that there is a well co-ordinated and deliberate effort to collapse and reduce Statistics SA into a weak institution. Since we arrived here in Parliament in 2014, we have consistently raised our concerns with all the budget cuts that Statistics SA has suffered. When we say we reject the proposed Budget for Statistics SA by the Minister
of Finance, we don’t mean that we don’t want any money allocated to Statistics SA, we mean that we reject budget failure to allocate adequate resources to Statistics SA.

Any budget that doesn’t seek fundamental changes in the government structure, economic opportunities, support and funding aimed at improving ordinary lives of the disabled can never be welcomed by the EFF. This department has failed the women of this country, it has failed young people and it has failed the differently abled. This budget is ignorant of the great urgency needed to deal with the problems of young people and young women in particular. We reject this budget.


Ke a leboga, Modulasetulo.



AND EVALUATION (Ms P S Kekana): Hon Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon Deputy Chair, hon House Chairpersons and Chief Whip, hon members, permanent and special delegates to the NCOP, Ministers and Deputy Ministers in the Presidency, board representatives that were here and of course community-based organisations, in absentia let me also recognise the Ethiopian representatives, and fellow South
Africans. Hon team, please make sure that you go through the Zondo Commission’s ... and even ask your representative in the Ethics Committee, before you stand here and talk about me. Hon Lehihi, women of South Africa are disappointed in you. You just gave us statistics on gender-based violence, GBV. You have just spoken about how women and girls are vulnerable, including how persons living with disability are marginalised. Now, this Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities has to be there to help these vulnerable women, to make sure that you even hold it accountable, and ensure that those marginalised groups get the services. Thank you.

Fellow South Africans, I would like to start out by paying homage to the late former Minister Tina Joemat-Pettersson, a member of the National Assembly representing the ANC as the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Police. Death has a cruel way of reminding us that with the limited time that we have on our hands, we must strive to make an indelible contribution to humanity. Tina, as an activist this is what you dedicated a great part of your life to, thanks to you, your kids and family. Of course, you have left me and ... [Inaudible.] ... your friend devastated. You fought many battles and may you continue to rest in eternal peace and rise in glory ...

... lala ngoxolo...


... my friend.


In his state of the nation address, His Excellency President Cyril Ramaphosa said, and I want to highlight parts of the President’s speech which are pertinent to today’s discourse: “... we cannot proceed as we usually would. ... We are not presenting new plans. ... Rather, we are concentrating on those issues that concern South Africans the most”.

Fellow members of the NCOP, this was a state of the nation address like no other. It was an instruction manual for all government departments, detailing which challenges we need to resolve and how to overcome them, with a very specific ask that we focus on solutions. Our President, as our Head of State, called us all to action. He did not call us to make more speeches, to speak words of wisdom or to develop new strategies without action. He specifically said we are not presenting new plans and that we cannot proceed as we usually would. Our President needs us to deliver on his words with action and solutions, whether on water where the DA is unable
to deliver in Hammanskraal, whether on roads, whether on all infrastructure-related ... including electricity, with action and solutions on existing plans and strategies, and to meet the targets and goals of annual performance plans, APPs, that are transparent and clear for everyone to deliver on. So, if we can’t spend as municipalities and as departments, it is a serious challenge to our people because we are denying our people service delivery.

The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, DPME, is responsible for ensuring operational and sustainable value chains to plan, implement, evaluate and ensure long-term planning across the three spheres of government.


So, ek hoop daardie agb ... luister.

We are responsible for ensuring that our APPs are operational, and for the sustainable value chain to our plans.


Agb Tim, jy moet luister.

Our APP as the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation is driven by a single objective, which is leaving no one behind in implementing the National Development Plan, NDP, Sustainable Development Goals, SDGs, and Agenda 2063 for Africa. For us at the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, this means that our role is to ensure there is planning to meet these targets and to monitor and evaluate the actions and delivery by all spheres of government. This is what we have been doing and this is what we are going to continue to do through the District Development Model, DDM, but with even more focus and even more expectation of targets and goals to be met by all government departments and all spheres of government for the next budget period.

So, I stand before you today with another clear instruction from the President’s state of the nation address: “If we work together and act boldly and decisively, leaving no one behind, we will be able to resolve our challenges”.

According to the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon N A Masondo, on the occasion of the policy debate on Budget Vote No 2, the NCOP has nine transformational targets set for 2023-24, all in the next context of a reduced
budget which is impacting the state as a whole. On this basis and on behalf of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation as the collaborative government we are, I want to invite you to do what our President has asked of us, which is to work together, to act boldly and decisively, to play our oversight, to leave no one behind, including hon Lehihi, and to spend as national ... provinces and local ... because our people need these services. In working together, we mitigate the issues of duplicated costs, as well as having to outcome a higher, wider and deeper impact, especially in conducting oversight visits and service-delivery inspections. Come and join us and see the kind of oversight we are doing.

We are able to make better and quicker decisions because there are more decision-makers present, with more varied cut- crossing issues identified and challenges resolved due to the combination of APP targets and goals across the three spheres of government.

Now, as a result, today the poorest people live the furthest away from their place of work and this has been created by ... [Inaudible.] ... DA.

An HON MEMBER: Get to the point.

AND EVALUATION (Ms P S Kekana): ... places of work far from education and far from access to opportunities, thereby impacting them with higher costs of transport and limiting their access to facilities and opportunities. As you know, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation is responsible for the operationalisation of planning through the institutionalisation of the NDP, promoted by the National Planning Commission, NPC. I can assure you that the review that the NPC is currently doing is going to bring our people closer to town. That which you are doing ...

... in Grabouw, daar by Theewaters ... nie Theewaterskloof ...

by Swartwater ...



... whatever ... we are bringing our people back. You will see that they will never live very far from their place of work.

Work is being done on redistribution, on infrastructure, on agriculture and on climate change in the economic environment in efforts to improve the performance of the economy and reducing the cost of doing business in our country, which is
critical for the growth of the economy. Quite clearly, as this government and department ...




AND EVALUATION (Ms P S Kekana): ... we are mandated to monitor and evaluate the collective delivery actions of government, of involvement, responsiveness and accountability. We offer our support to the NCOP and guidance from the NDP’s mechanism, all to ensure the only outcome that the President is interested in, as he said in his state of the nation address: “The people of South Africa want action, they want solutions and they want government to work for them”. Malibongwe! [Praise!]

Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers, hon members, last week, we heard that South African women continue to bear the brunt of violent attacks. In the first three months of 2023, more than 10 000 women were raped, more than 1 000 attempted murders of women were reported, 969 women were killed and over 16 000 women were assaulted.

The IFP agrees with the recent portfolio committee report that the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities
can and must do more. It must follow through on targets that it has committed to and not just drop them from their APP without explanation.

The IFP is deeply concerned that targets related to monitoring and evaluation of police stations and Thuthuzela Care Centres, as well as court monitoring were discontinued and no longer appeared as targets in the APP under review.

The women, children and vulnerable persons who are victims of gender-based violence often report secondary victimisation by the authorities and or a lack of resources and support services. How can monitoring and evaluation of police stations, Thuthuzela Care Centres and courts be discontinued? Who will speak for the voiceless?

The IFP is highly appreciative of the manner in which Statistics SA has upheld the value of transparency. The quarterly outputs issued by this department should by no means be taken as a rubberstamp activity. However, this is unfortunately, our current reality.

Will we ever reach a point where the government’s commitment to the safety of women is paralleled by its successful and
effective address of the savage violence women and children are subjected to? It seems as if the government is not attending to the statistics with the necessary levels of seriousness that is required.

The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation is tasked with leading the department of the National Development Plan by facilitating, influencing and supporting effective planning, monitoring and evaluation of government’s programmes, which are aimed at improving service delivery outcomes and the impact on society.

Therefore, the policies underpinned by the NDP should take into consideration all the people in South Africa in their demographic diversity. In this regard, women constitute a very important policy constituency, making up 52% of the nation and moreover, are they reproducers of the nation. Consequently, any policy that is gender-blind or lack the necessary urgency for implementation, as it related to women, is simply unacceptable.

It is of paramount importance that government allocates a budget that is appropriate for the needs and functions of all three of the departments. However, it is equally important
that these departments maintain their accountability by delivering on their stipulated strategic and annual performance plans.

In consideration of the comments made, the IFP accepts the budget for the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and Statistics SA. Thank you.

Mr S F DU TOIT: Hon Chairs, the Freedom Front Plus believes in the equal rights and opportunities for all South Africans, regardless of race, gender, age, or ability. We are aware of the high youth unemployment rate in the country but, currently, government, through legislation, makes provision for youth, women and persons with disabilities, from previously disadvantaged backgrounds, to be considered for employment opportunities.

But what about the rest? What about all the women and children and persons with disabilities that do not qualify, the ones that do not wear a label, the ones that cannot and do not want to play the race card?

Ek kan die agb lede uit ondervinding meedeel dat daar ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... satisfaksie ... [Onhoorbaar.]

... reality that all South Africans are facing... [Inaudible.]


Ek het die voorreg gehad om aand die einde van 2022 met ’n groep leerders by ’n plattelandse skool te kon praat, aangesien daar van hulle was, wie die druk van armoede, honger en diskrimminasie op die ergste graad ervaar het. Daar is altyd hoop.


It is always a privilege to look into the eyes of young minds and individuals with so much potential.

Die kort en die lank is dat die Afrikaner en ander minderheidsgroepe se jeug, reeds so baie vermag het en steeds doen. Hulle is die bewys dat die regering se transformasie- aanslae nie suksesvol is nie en dat hulle teen-transformeer.
Julle teen-transformeer en behou jul intergriteit. Jong entrepreneurs word deur hierdie onderdrukking gekweek. Innoverende idees word in jul eie werksgeleenthede omskep. Die feit dat vriendekringe as ’n kollektief die onderdrukking moet weerstaan, word daar groter ondersteuningsbasisse geskep. Ons dra mekaar. Ons deel die pyn, ons deel die lag en ons eie toekoms. Druk omskep steenkool in diamante. Julle is van onskatbare waarde.

Vroue, moeders van ’n volk, dames van die jeug, ons respekteer julle. Vir jare lank het die regering sy plig versaak. Julle het beswys dat julself die oplossings bied, geleenthede skep en nie van iets of iemand afhanklik is nie. Julle oorleef en floreer.

Julle was in soveel gevalle slagoffers van plaasaanvalle, tog bly julle sterk en bly die ankers in huishoudings en gemeenskappe. Julle is in soveel gevalle, die gedwonge broodwinners in die die huis, tog bly jul moeder, vrou en bastion. Julle is gerespekteerd, die bron van liefde, voorbeeld van standvastigeheid, fontein van kennis, pilaar van geloof en matriarg. Dankie.
Mr M R BARA: Hon Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers, fellow South Africans, good day once more. Today, I stand before you to shed light on the shortcomings and highlights and highlight the importance of the Department of Statistics South Africa.

While we recognize the vital role of statistical information in shaping policies and driving development, we cannot overlook the significant challenges and concerns within the department that are meant to provide us with a statistical outlook of our country.

First and foremost, let us address the budget allocations for the 2023-24 financial year. It is disheartening to note that there has been a decrease in the overall budget, both in nominal and real terms. This decrease, amounting to minus 45,54% in nominal terms and minus 16,09% in real terms, is largely attributed to the census budget being a once-off project.

Such a drastic reduction raises serious concerns about the department’s ability to fulfill its mandate effectively and accurately. Clearly, the ANC-led government is unable to restrain the cost of living crisis. The inflation revealed by
Stats-SA is not just merely numbers, but it is a symptom of the cost of living crisis at the core of South African households. The rampant cost of living crisis in South Africa warrants immediate, decisive action.

Furthermore, the inability to fill vacancies within the department has had a negative impact on fulfilling its performance targets, as well as key positions, especially at senior management levels. We must question why the department has allowed the vacancy rate to increase to a staggering 20,7% by the end of September 2022.

This trend is worrisome and raises doubts about the department’s commitment to ensuring a capable workforce. Moreover, the lack of financial resources allocated for the compensation of employees has hindered the department’s ability to attract and retain skilled professionals. This directly affects the quality and reliability of statistical information produced by states Stats SA. This is particularly worrisome when glancing at the statistics that this department develops. They frame key indicators of our country and therefore require a professional workforce. Without a committed and motivated workforce, how can we expect accurate and timely data to inform policy decisions?
Additionally, the delayed tabling of the Draft Statistics Act Amendment Bill in Parliament raises concerns about the Department’s commitment to driving necessary reforms. While the Cabinet approved the Bill in September 2022, it is disheartening to see the lack of progress in its implementation. We urge the department to prioritize this crucial legislative reform to enhance the credibility and effectiveness of statistical information.

Stats SA needs to have a programme aimed at capacitating all government departments and local government on key statistical findings to assist all spheres in planning, policymaking, evidence-based decision-making, and budgeting. And even more important, that these findings are taken aboard.

We call for transparency and greater collaboration between the producers and users of statistics to ensure that high-quality is readily available to the public. Accessible, reliable, and timely statistics information is the bedrock of evidence-based policymaking and is crucial for holding the government accountable.

Despite these shortcomings, we acknowledge the important role of Stats SA in providing statistical research that measures
the development and transformation of our economy and society. We recognize the need for detailed and frequent statistics to ensure that policies are responsive and effective. However, we must address the systematic challenges and limitations hindering the department’s ability to deliver on its mandate.

Stats SA remains a key role player in providing data on key government responsibilities like economic growth, job creation, social living conditions, health, education, crime, etc. These are fundamental to service delivery. The ANC-led government is unable to restrain the cost of living crisis.

In conclusion, the DA emphasizes the critical importance of a capable, ethical, and developmental state. We call on the Department of Stats SA to address raises including the budget cuts, the high vacancy rate, the delayed amendment Bill and the need for greater transparency. Only by addressing these challenges can we build a state that truly serves the needs of our nation enabling evidence-based decision-making and fostering inclusive development for all South Africans. A well-resourced and supported Stats SA will serve the country well.
Ms A D MALEKA: Greetings to the Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson, the Chief Whip, the House Chairperson, Ministers and the Deputy Ministers, hon members, fellow South Africans. Hon Chairperson, allow me to convey condolences to the family, friends and comrades for the loss of our own hon Tina Joemat Pettersson may her soul rest in peace.


Ngizobabona laba abanye awuthi ke ngigxile kule ndaba yami kuqala, bese ngibuyela le ekugcineni kubo bab’uBara.


I am going to do my debate on Budget Vote 14 Statistics SA, promoting successful and well-informed policies and practices requires the strengthening and improvement of the use of data and information. This can be done by conducting comprehensive and in-depth research with the sole aim of improving planning and decision making in the public and private sector as well as civil society.

The government and societies need to improve their co- operation and fathom that each side needs the other to produce a democratic, prosperous, nonsexist and nonracist South Africa. The government and societies need to foster a culture
that values evidence and research as integral components of decision-making processes. This involves promoting the understanding that decisions should be based on reliable data, rigorous analysis, and evidence-based research rather than personal beliefs or opinions. Allocation of resources needs to improve in order to support research initiatives and data collection efforts, this includes funding research institutions, universities, and think tanks to conduct studies that address critical societal challenges.

Additionally, government should invest in data collection systems and infrastructure to ensure the availability of reliable and up-to-date data information for evidence-based decision-making. By incorporating these strategies, government and societies can strengthen the use of evidence and research to enhance planning and decision-making. This approach can lead to more informed, effective, and equitable policies that address the complex challenges faced by government and societies today.

Statistic SA plays a critical and strategic role in ensuring the availability of quality statistical data for both the public and private sectors in South Africa. Its role assists us to thoroughly fathom the challenges we face pertaining to
economic growth, development and democracy. Collecting, compiling, and analysing a wide range of statistical data through surveys, censuses, administrative records, and other sources assists the government to combat socioeconomic issues. Statistic SA ensures that data is collected using scientifically rigorous sampling techniques, and that statistical procedures are applied accurately and consistently. This commitment to methodological enhances the quality and reliability of the statistical data produced by Statistic SA. We appreciate Statistic SA’s role in disseminating statistical information to the public and private sectors.

The strategic role of Statistic SA in ensuring quality statistical data should be supported because it involves data collection and compilation, adherence to international standards, data dissemination, data integrity, confidentiality, collaboration, standardisation and capacity building which are all pivotal for the public and private sectors. By these responsibilities, Statistic SA contributes to economic planning, and policy formulation in South Africa.

Government can leverage big data analytics to detect and prevent fraudulent activities. By analysing vast amounts of
data across various government departments and state-owned entities, and irregularities can be identified, leading to the prevention of fraudulent claims, tax evasion, or other unlawful activities. It is crucial to address privacy and security concerns while leveraging big data in government.
Proper data governance frameworks, anonymization techniques, and adherence to legal and ethical guidelines are necessary to ensure the responsible use of data and protect citizens' privacy. Overall, leveraging big data can empower the state to make informed decisions, enhance public service delivery, and foster data-driven governance practices that benefit both the government and the citizens they serve.

Increasing the use of Statistic SA data in government planning across the spheres of government requires a multifaceted and extensive approach that focuses on awareness, accessibility, capacity building, and collaboration. Statistic SA’s data should be made easily accessible to government officials and departments at all levels.

The government should foster collaboration by encouraging cohabitation and co-operation between Statistic SA and government departments. This can be done by establishing mechanisms for regular communication and co-ordination to
ensure that the data needs of government planners are met. Collaborative projects can be initiated to address specific planning challenges and generate actionable insights.

Robust data management systems and advanced analytics tools can help Statistic SA handle large volumes of data efficiently and effectively. Implementing data warehouses, cloud-based storage, and data integration platforms can facilitate data processing, integration, and analysis. Advanced data analytics techniques, such as machine learning and artificial intelligence algorithms, can aid in deriving insights and patterns from complex data sets.

It is important to note that while technology can significantly enhance the implantation of Statistic SA’s mandate. Careful planning, adequate resources, and stakeholder engagement are crucial for successful implementation.
Continuous monitoring and evaluation of technological systems will be necessary to ensure they remain effective and aligned with Statistic SA’s evolving needs. Government needs to expand the funding for the entity to enable it to develop required capabilities.
Census and key reports produced by of Statistic SA are important for understanding the demographic, social, and economic characteristics of our country. They provide valuable information for government, businesses, researchers, and policymakers to make informed decisions and develop appropriate strategies. The significance of census must never be undermined or ignored. It helps in estimating the population size and growth rate, which is essential for resource allocation, urban planning, and infrastructure development. The census also provides data insights into the demographic composition of the population, which aids in formulating policies related to healthcare, education, social welfare, and employment.

Other key reports include the Quarterly Labour Force Survey,QLFS, gross domestic product, GDP, and consumer price index, CPI. The QLFS provides information on employment, unemployment, and the labour market dynamics. It helps to ... the state of the economy, assess employment trends, and inform policy decisions related to job creation and skills development.

Statistic SA releases GDP reports, which measure the economic activity and output of the country. These reports help monitor
economic growth, identify sectoral contributions, and assess the overall health of the economy. Generated reports on poverty and inequality, including the Living Conditions Survey and the Income and Expenditure Survey assist us in understanding the distribution of wealth, identifying vulnerable groups, and designing policies to alleviate poverty and reduce inequality. The CPI, which measures inflation by tracking changes in the prices of a basket of goods and services. It is a vital indicator for economic stability, monetary policy decisions, and assessing the cost of living for households.

The census and the abovementioned reports among others, offer critical insights into various facets of the South African society, enabling evidence-based decision-making, monitoring progress, and addressing social and economic challenges effectively. Chairperson, ANC supports the budget vote. I want to raise this issue.


Angeke bakhone abanye ukuyesekela ngoba namhlanje sinabantu abahlala ngokungekho emthethweni la eNigizimu Afrika abakhonayo ukubavalela kwezinye izindawo ukuthi bakhone ukuthola omazisi ngokungekho emthethweni.

Chairperson, also another issue that I want to raise ... I still have my minutes. You are fine. Oppositions have no concrete programme to ensure social delivery to historically disadvantaged communities and therefore the ...

... koKhayelitsha koGugulethu besuyabuya uyaqhubeka.


Thank you, Chairperson.


Chairperson of the NCOP, you know, I find it quite perplexing that, hon Lehihi, profoundly speaks about statistics on
gender-based violence, GBV, crime statistics quite eloquently. But then she rejects the budget of Statistics SA which enables Statistics SA to collect and dissimilate the same produce and the same data. So, I find it quite perplexing.

What you said, hon Bara, that you are committed to make sure that one of our key and chief priorities this financial year is to ensure that the tabling of the Amendment Bill is expedited. I am sure this is what you said and I am quite
shocked that you did not hear it. We said that under resourced SA Airways, SAA, will really militate against our ability to produce qualitative data. And we share with you in your sentiment that there is a need for us to recapitalise Statistics SA.

We want to really take this opportunity, Chair, to also thank the Statistics SA team here which is led by hon or Mr Harry Thema, Acting Deputy Director General for National Statistics Systems and the two chief directors from both the Northern Cape and the Western Cape.

We are honoured to have had the opportunity to participate at this debate. This debate has once more reaffirm our collective appreciation for the sterling work of Statistics SA. It has inter alia exposed those whose criticism of the ANC or of this government is based on antipathy for the ANC and nothing else.

These ill-wishers amongst us have elected to completely vial of the debate. The debate is about the ability or inability of Statistics SA to collect and process data for statistical purposes within the available resources. It should be about the ability or inability of Statistics SA to conduct nationwide households and business survey. It should be about
whether Statistics SA is able to meet its target or whether it does so prudently and whether it’s able to manage its finances.

Earlier this morning, the Statistician -eneral released the Gross Domestic Product for the first quarter of 2023. South Africa’s GDP increased by 0,4% in the first quarter of 2023. In total, eight of the industries grew in the positive, manufacturing, finance, personal services, transport and trade, these five industries out of eight contributed strongly. The manufacturing industry increased by 1,5% in the first quarter, contributing 0,2% of a percentage point to GDP growth. Four of the 10 manufacturing divisions reported positive growth rate in the first quarter.

The food and beverages divisions made the largest contribution to the increase in the first quarter. The petroleum chemical products, rubber and plastic products division also made a significant contribution to the growth in the industry.

The finance realistic and business services industry increased by 0,6% in the first quarter contributing 0,2% of a percentage point to GDP growth. Increase economic activities were
reported for financial intermediation, insurance and pension funding, real estate and business services.

The personal services industry increased by 0,8% in the first quarter contribute 0,1% of a percentage point to GDP growth. Increased economic activity was reported for community service.

The transport storage and communication industry increased by 1,1% contributing 0,1% of a percentage point to GDP growth.
Increased economic activities were reported for land transport, air transport services and communication services. The trade, catering and accommodation industry increased by 0,7% in the first quarter contributing 0,1% of a percentage point to GDP growth.

Increased economic activities were reported for wholesale, trade, retail and catering and accommodation. Those of us who took an oath of office must fundamentally work towards altering the circumstances under which our people live. We will not tire in this relentless efforts. I thank you so much.

EVALUATION (Ms M L Ramokgopa): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP,
one of the things that I have learned as an individual is that, indeed, if you don’t understand something you don’t have to reject it. You reject something that you understand and appreciate. That must be based on scientific evidence not just a feeling or politics and trying to actually make sure that you capture some imagination so that you can then now be able to politic better because in government we are doing what we are doing to change people’s lives and we want to do that based on evidence. It’s for that reason that today, we have got frameworks that speaks to intergovernmental framework that speaks to co-ordination of service delivery. We have got the District Development Model, DDM, structure or DDM model that we are trying to build support so that service delivery to our people can be better co-ordinated.

Therefore, it really baffles me when people seem to try and undermine the co-ordination, power and the co-ordination importance in our government if we are to be able to reach what we want to reach.

Having said that, I would like to just thank you, of course, giving us this opportunity again but to also continue to say that spatial transformation remains a critical priority of government. It is for this reason that the Department of
Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and Department of Agriculture, Land and Reform have been able to create a framework that will speak to National Spatial Development. This will then now be able to assist us to make bold and decisive contribution to provide directions for social development and spatial transformation in the country which is articulated in the Freedom Charter, the Reconstruction and Development Programme and the National Development Plan.

As I close, and I don’t want to take so much of our time, I think it will be wrong if I do not speak about the six or the seven pillars of the Sixth Administration priorities which is Building a Better Africa and a Better World.

Today, hon Chairperson, we have convened an Inter-Ministerial Committee that is supposed to ensure that we co-ordinate better, the Presidential Infrastructure Champion Initiative in support of the President as a champion of this particular initiative that is done at the AU level. We have been able to receive reports and co-ordinate in order to ensure that we receive progress on the Beitbridge Border Post, the Dredging Hydro Power Project, Lesotho Highlands Water Project and making South Africa the hub for the manufacture and supply for rail stock of Africa in accordance with the AU resolutions.
It is pleasing to note the report that we received and the projects that are progressing in implementing these stages. We will continue to ensure that we monitor and evaluate and ensure that all the memorandum of understanding that our country has signed with different countries most especially in Africa becomes a reality. We will support all infrastructures projects that are seeking to ensure that integration of Africa becomes a reality.

Having said that, Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to thank everybody that has supported ourselves as the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and we will continue to avail ourselves in ensuring that co-ordination of service delivery and making sure that we create frameworks at which all departments and all the stakeholders that work with the government should then now be able to work under because without a framework we will not be able to reach the milestones that we want to reach. We will continue to also ensure that we streamline planning in all departments and also ensuring that the machinery that deals with planning of service delivery planning of ensuring that we implement each and everything that speaks to policy of our country becomes a reality.
Thank you very much for the support and thank you very much for giving us an opportunity to come and share with your good selves in terms of what we are doing and I definitely know that with your support we will be able to ensure that planning for development for our people in terms of service delivery and policy for our nation would then be able speak to the national interest that our country needs and our country need to ensure that we are protected all times. Thank you very much, Chairperson of the NCOP.

WITH DISABILITIES: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson of the NCOP and thanks to their members who participated in this debate. Let me also thank, more specially, the ones who supported our budget: The IFP; and the ANC. I didn’t hear anybody else supporting the budget. Let me say that I find it very strange when people say they care about women, youth and persons with disability, and they want things done, but they don’t support the budget. I just find it a contradiction in terms, because if you don’t support the budget: How do you think all the things, that you say must be done, should be done? [Interjections.]
However, having said that, let me say that the youth unemployment prevalence is true. There is youth unemployment, but as I was saying, part of the problem is that the youth that do not have skills is unemployable. That is why sometimes we import skills from outside, even when we have unemployment, because there are no skills.

I would have thought that people would have welcomed the fact that we would like to work with the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, to skill our people, because there is no skill that doesn’t exist within the SA National Defence Force. Thus, so that they can be skilled and get jobs or create jobs.

So, the DA cannot be loud about these things because when they had the opportunity during apartheid, they had free and compulsory education for white kids only. So, they are the last ones to talk. Please! The legacy that we are dealing with is what they left. It was their discrimination and oppression that we are dealing with now. So, I think that the DA must not talk too much. [Interjections.]

I also want to say that the problem is our budget. We actually don’t have a budget to do things that you are expecting us to do. I had a litany of things that we are supposed to do. We
are supposed to be an advocacy department and our budget is the smallest. I would have thought that those who support women, youth and persons with disability would have been advocating that we should get a better allocation. Instead of advocating for a better allocation, they are saying that they don’t support the budget. So, I think that I will not respond too much to what they are saying. The other DA person said,


 ... bayasingena. Basingena Kuphi? Ngeke nisingene, akukho DA ezowina la. Musani ukuzikhohlisa. Ayikho i-DA ezowina. Angeke nisingene, khohlwa! Ngiyabonga.

Debate concluded.


THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: As in keeping with our own practice, I would like to thank the Minister, the Deputy Ministers, permanent delegates, MECs and all special delegates for availing themselves for the sitting today. So, your presence and your participation here is much more appreciated.

The Council adjourned at 19:55.




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