Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 29 Oct 2018


No summary available.








The House met at 14:04.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.









The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, before we proceed with today’s business, I wish to announce that I’ve been informed by the DA that it has designated Mr J H Steenhuisen as the new parliamentary leader of the party and therefore Leader of the Opposition in terms of the



Constitution. [Applause.] Congratulations hon member. [Interjections.]



An HON MEMBER: Where is Maimane? [Interjections.] Where is Maimane?



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon members! The first item on the Order Paper ... [Interjections.] Hon member, calm down. You need to calm down. You’re in the House now. The first item on the Order Paper is a motion in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party. The hon Deputy Chief Whip? [Interjections.]






(Draft resolution)





hon Deputy Speaker. I move that the House resumes proceedings on the following Bills, which in terms of Rules 333 and Rules 351 lapsed on the last sitting day of



the sixth session of the Fifth Parliament, from the stage that they were referred to the relevant committees of the Assembly for consideration and reporting: Road Accident Benefit Scheme Bill; Airports Company Amendment Bill; Air Traffic and Navigation Services Company Amendment Bill; Science and Technology Laws Amendment Bill; Foreign Service Bill; National Land Transport Amendment Bill; International Crimes Bill; Social Assistance Amendment Bill; Prevention and Combating of Hate Crimes and Hate Speech Bill; State Liability Amendment Bill; Civil Aviation Amendment Bill; Defence Amendment Bill; Local Government: Municipal Systems Amendment Bill; SA Reserve Bank Amendment Bill; and National Health Amendment Bill.



Question put.






An HON MEMBER: Where’s your leader?



An HON MEMBER: They overlook you. [Interjections.]



Declaration(s) of Vote:



Mr J W W JULIUS: You have a tiger to worry about. [Laughter.]



Deputy Speaker, the DA welcomes the revival of these Bills that lapsed after the Fifth Parliament. Amongst its other duties, the House has an obligation to South Africans to pass legislation, as prescribed by the Constitution.



We are, however, disappointed that it has taken this House five months to revive these important Bills that are before us today. Further to this, we are not in favour of all these Bills. The Road Accident Benefit Scheme, Rabs, Bill ... where the DA submitted a comprehensive view of all the shortfalls and appropriateness of the Rabs Bill ... has a relevant solution to the current Road Accident Fund Act. Sadly, these views were removed from the draft committee report and excluded from the report that was tabled in this House.



The purpose of committee reports is to facilitate debate and equip members of this House with adequate content to



make a decision. The Rabs Bill failed and the report which facilitated the debate was flawed in its reflection of what transpired in the committee.



Furthermore, in its current form, the Hate Speech Bill would criminalise the causing of offence. It is an ill- fated attempt to address the growing culture of intolerance through legislation and which will, in all likelihood, exacerbate the culture of intolerance in our country. Most importantly, the measures proposed in the Bill will certainly have the effect of eroding freedom of speech in an unjustifiable manner.



The International Crimes Bill, for instance, is a bad piece of legislation which typifies the legacy of the Zuma administration, when the ANC acted on all of its worst instincts. It’s an attempt to gloss over the ill- fated decision of the Zuma administration to aid and abet the international criminal by the name of Omar al-Bashir, in the process diminishing our status as a responsible member of the international community.



We will argue further in committees and, needs be, we will oppose some of these Bills when it comes to the House. Nonetheless, we are in favour of the revival of these Bills, with the concerns mentioned. Thank you. [Applause.]



An HON MEMBER: We will bring in a tiger Bill as well. [Laughter.]



Ms N V MENTE: Deputy Speaker, the EFF is not objecting to the Bills. We actually welcome the revival of all the Bills that are coming through to this House. This is because the primary objective and duties of Members of Parliament is to look after the legislation and ensure that we create and develop all the laws that will benefit the society of South Africa. And in doing so, the EFF has two Private Member Bills, i.e. the nationalisation of the Reserve Bank and the health care amendment Bill which seeks to make sure that the clinics and health care facilities in South Africa are open 24 hours rather than the current status of opening for only eight hours. We know the impact this has on our people in particular people in the rural areas and the townships, who live



very far from the facilities of health care in South Africa.



We will further introduce two Bills that will benefit the society - the liquor Bill as well as the insourcing Bill. We have seen what insourcing has done for people of South Africa in Johannesburg through the insourcing of securities. We have seen the insourcing through the EFF movement at the Wits University and University of Johannesburg, UJ where workers were insourced. We welcome that and hope that all parties here will work together with the EFF in forwarding the objectives of Parliament as well as helping the South African community. Thank you very much. [Applause.]



Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP supports this motion. Rule 333 (2) states that, when the Assembly is dissolved, all Bills before the Assembly or any Assembly committee lapse at the end of that day. This is repeated in Rule 351, hence the tabling of this motion. The issue was discussed in the Chief Whips Forum and the Programming Committee, and it was agreed that Bills that have lapsed will, when the Assembly revives them like



today, they will be referred to the relevant portfolio committees for consideration, and this is very important.



We have newly-elected Members of Parliament who must apply themselves to these Bills in terms of section 55

(1) of the Constitution. This states categorically the powers of the National Assembly which, when exercising its legislative power may (a) consider, (b) pass, (c) amend or reject any legislation before the National Assembly. So, the Sixth Parliament must then apply section 55 in its entirety and it is not bound by the provisions of the Fifth Parliament.



There are a number of Bills before the House which are contentious and which other speakers have referred to, such as the Road Accident Benefit Scheme Bill, State Liability Bill, the International Crimes Bill and the Hate Speech Bill, to mention a few. Our support of this motion does not mean that we will support those Bills which need due consideration by Members of this Parliament.



Lastly, a number of Private Member’s Bills have also been re-introduced. Those where the member that introduced them in the Fifth Parliament has been re-elected and can now re-introduce or continue with that Bill which has lapsed. There are certain circumstances such as the ACDP’s Private Member’s Bill that was introduced by our member who was not re-elected, i.e the Animal Protection Amendment Bill, and will now have to be introduced de novo with a new process, and that will be done. So, the ACDP supports this motion. I thank you.





Speaker, as the ANC we have never said that the Bills will not be revived. We have agreed to this process in consultation with the Office of the Leader of Government Business and working with other political parties including the DA, who were making noise about these Bills in both the National Assembly Programming Committee as well as the Chief Whips Forum. So, if you want to debate on each and every Bill, you’ll do so in the committee – in your respective committees and not in the House. In the House you will be afforded the opportunity to come



and declare on each and every Bill that will be tabled in the House.



The other issue, hon members, is that those Bills which were before the House are being referred to committees for information and not for the committees to open and start the process afresh. So, the ANC supports all the Bills that are being revived today. Thank you. [Applause.]



Motion agreed to.





Speaker, I move:



That the House -



(1) notes the resolution adopted by the NCOP on Thursday, 17 October 2019;



(2) concur with the NCOP that the following Bills be revived and consideration thereof be resumed from the stage reached in the Fifth Parliament before



lapsing, namely that the Bills had been passed by the National Assembly and were before committees of the NCOP:




Border Management Authority



Traditional Courts Bill;



Cybercrimes Bill;



Civil Union Amendment Bill;



National Gambling Amendment



Child Justice Amendment;



Local Government: Municipal



Amendment Bill; and



Hydrographic Bill





I so move.



The DEUTY SPEAKER, Hon members, I now put the motion. Are there any objections to those?



Ms N W A MAZZONE: Deputy Speaker, there’s no objection, but the DA would like to make a Declaration, please.



Declaration(s) of vote:



Mr J W W JULIUS: Deputy Speaker, again, these pieces of legislation could only go as far as the NCOP in the Fifth Parliament. In the Fifth Parliament, hardly any legislation was passed. As Members of Parliament our core duty is to pass legislation. We don’t just pass legislation for the fun of it; we pass legislation that is supposed to change the live of South Africans for the better.



If we don’t pass legislation, people’s lives will not change for the better as promised when we go to elections. Just today, we have heard that the unemployment rate for the third quarter of 2019 stands at a staggering 29,1%. These are the types of challenges faced when Parliament cannot move in optimal time to pass legislation.



These are the effects and out there and the people are feeling it if we cannot pass legislation. To revive these Bills after five months it’s a waste of time and impacts on the lives of ordinary South Africans. Our colleagues in the NCOP Select Committees will further deliberate on these Bills. We certainly hope that the Sixth Parliament



will do justice that the members can do their work to benefit the people. Thank you.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I assume that there are no further Declarations and that... [Interjections.] There is? Okay, go ahead ma’am.



Dr M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: Deputy Speaker, the point that I just want to make is that, when the Bills are actually referred back by the NCOP to the National Assembly, it can never be a waste of time. If there are amendments, those amendments need to be considered by the National Assembly. Therefore, we welcome the introduction of the Bills. I thank you.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, there are no objections to the revival of these Bills from the NCOP.



Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, was there any time when the Rules were changed that the people can wear hats in the House? That guy was wearing a hat. [Interjections.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, order. Order. Who’s wearing a hat?






The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Paulsen, please take it off, thank you very much. You can be orderly when you choose to. Thank you.





Speaker, I move that the Reports be adopted.



Motion agreed to.






The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, I am not sure of the process. We want to make a declaration. You are moving very strangely today.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I move with speed.



Dr M Q NDLOZI: No, it is strange. [Laughter.] Deputy Speaker, once there is an objection, you must put the question and all of that. You are not doing that. You are moving to the second report and we have not exhausted the first report.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. Hon member, when you rise to an objection, you do indicate, as you always do, that we must call for a declaration. That is all you have to do. I don’t even have to ask you. Take your seat.



Declarations of vote:


Ms S J GRAHAM: Deputy Speaker, while the DA supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, being tabled today, we do so with the following riders.



Firstly, the absolute failure of the Fifth Parliament to finalise legislation for the Department of Public Works, the Property Management Trading Entity and the Independent Development Trust cannot and will not be repeated by the Sixth Parliament.



Minister De Lille, this is your responsibility. The department cannot continue to function on the outdated White Papers, if it is to improve both audit outcomes and service delivery.



Secondly, the infrastructure component of this department remains a question mark. The failure of the President to do proper planning and interrogation prior to adding the infrastructure to the department’s mandate has meant that one of the critical deliverables of government is in limbo. The infrastructure mandate and the budget for implementation must be incorporated into the department as a matter of urgency.



Thirdly, transformation in the built environment is an imperative. The idea to hold the Public Works Academy is supported, but more must be done to partner with



education establishments to ensure that people from previously disadvantaged backgrounds have fair access to the opportunities in the built environment.



Furthermore, the immovable asset register continues to be a cause for concern although great progress has been made. Failure to keep accurate record of assets is costing the department and is hampering the ability of municipalities to collect revenue on these properties.



Finally, EPWP should be properly monitored at implementation. It should be a fair and free mechanism, combining poverty alleviation with infrastructure development, and not a vehicle for political patronage and a reward for supporting the ANC. Policy must be developed to ensure proper implementation, monitoring and oversight. Implementers at local government must be held accountable in terms of expenditure, reporting and proper management of the programme. The DA supports this report. Thank you.



Ms A M SIWISA: Deputy Speaker, every year in the Fifth Parliament, the EFF has raised the issue of the



establishment of a state-owned construction company and other proposals and made this recommendation in the portfolio committee. However, the committee refused to see the basic logic, and instead, we ended up with site issues, which will not change how the Department of Public Works must do its work. The committee refused to see this basic logic.



This is what we proposed in the committee. Firstly, we need a state-owned construction company to build all state infrastructure including roads, houses offices and recreational infrastructure.



Secondly, we need a database of all state-owned buildings that are available, especially close to the institutions of higher learning, for them to be converted into suitable use for the different purposes for free. This database must be publically available for the entrepreneurs to apply for use of these buildings at no cost.



Thirdly, government must build shopping malls, manage these facilities and invite local manufacturers, companies to sell their products in these malls.



Furthermore, government must move away from renting offices and build their own offices. It is much cheaper and sustainable.



Lastly, the EPWP is a programme that has failed and there is overwhelming evidence that the programme will never achieve its intended results. What we need to do with the programme is to absorb all workers into jobs that do not demand skills, pay the minimum wage, provide them with structured training, together with education opportunities so that they can find employment elsewhere in future.



We continue to make these proposals because they will solve most of the problems facing government infrastructure, and the report again failed to appreciate these realities. On that note, we reject the report.



Mr M N NXUMALO: Chairperson, there has been a spate of recent incidents in which public-owned infrastructure, mainly buildings, have been in serious structural deficiencies and health hazards. Now, more than ever, due to slow economic growth and increased migration to urban centres, our public infrastructure must be a vehicle that drives economic and job-generating activities.



Furthermore, as we move towards a more inclusive and integrated population residing in urban centres, our public buildings, property, plant and equipment need to be adequately maintained. The maintenance of public infrastructure must ensure public confidence and agreement that all government buildings can indeed be centres that stimulate economic growth and creation.



The committee report, in turn, does not reflect sufficient efforts to address the problems of poor maintenance of public buildings. On the part of the Property Management and Trading Entity, PMTE, of its 42 targets, almost half of them were not met and one of the main PMTE core functions, amongst others, is maintenance.



We see that there has been ... In 2018-19, it is reported that the PMTE had a surplus of R1,1 billion. An underexpenditure in this regard is unacceptable, as our buildings require serious attention to maintenance and repair. The underexpenditure further impacts on job creation, as this programme must employ more skills required in trades to maintain public infrastructure.



There seems to be a lack of awareness in the executive with regard to the true state of public infrastructure. The IFP calls on you to make known and lead the executive to a common understanding of a list of public buildings and assets that require urgent or upcoming attention.



This, in turn, will aid the collective effort of all departments to ensure a focus on true service delivery to our people. Thank you.





Mnr P A VAN STADEN: Agb Adjunkspeaker, the V F Plus het kennisgeneem dat die Departement van Openbare Werke en Infrastruktuur in die besit is van nagenoeg 81 000 geboue, maar die ontstellende nuus is dat 703 van hierdie



geboue nie geokkopeer is nie en leeg staan. Behalwe dit, betaal die belastingbetaler eiendomsbelasting op hierdie leë geboue en in die 2018-19 finansiële jaar het dit ’n bedrag van R36 miljoen beloop.



Op al hierdie geboue is daar ’n agterstand met die instandhouding daarvan en die bedrag om die agterstand in te haal kom op ’n skrikwekkende geskatte R74 miljard neer.



Daar is ook verskeie staatsdepartement wat se maandlikse huurgeld vir langer as ’n tydperk van vyf jaar uitstaande is, wat ’n enorme bedrag van nagenoeg R600 miljoen beloop. Die Tesorie skuld self ’n enorme R127 miljoen.

Die vraag is: As Justisie, Korrektiewe Dienste en Hoër Onderwys maandliks hulle huur kan betaal, hoekom kan ander staatsdepartemente dit ook nie doen nie?



Hierdie krisis moet baie dringend aangespreek en opgelos word en hopenlik sal die saak dringende aandag op die Portefeulje Komitee van Openbare Werke geniet, om te sorg dat hierdie uitstaande gelde ingevorder word. Wat egter die V F Plus bekommerd maak is dat hierdie departement



hom reeds in die hoësorgeenheid van die hospitaal bevind. Ons hoop dat dit nie ’n staatshospitaal is nie.



Al hierdie probleme in die departement het ’n uitvloeisel na buite en ons sien dit daagliks in ons stede en dorpe, waar infrastruktuur besig is om inmekaar te tuimel en nie behoorlik instandgehou word nie.



Suid-Afrika sit met ’n enorme krisis met ons geboue, paaie, brûe, skole, hospitale en waterpyplynings wat nie behoorlik instandgehou word nie. Hierdie regering gaan nog ’n duur prys daarvoor betaal. Die belastingbetaler in hirdie land is moeg en siek en sat vir die wanbestuur en wanadministrasie waarmee hierdie regering daagliks omgang. Die tyd het aangebreek om die ANC huis toe te stuur. Die V F Plus verwerp die verslag. Dankie.



Mr W M THRING: Hon Deputy Speaker, this BRR report is a culmination of a series of meetings which interrogated the annual reports of the department of public works and infrastructure, PMTE, other entities as well the reports of the auditor general for the 2018-19 financial year.



The ACDP notes that it is the responsibility of the members of public works and infrastructure report portfolio committee to ensure that this report provides an assessment of the department’s service delivery performance and an assessment on the effectiveness and efficiency of the department’s use as well as the forward allocation of available resources.



It must be pointed out that the final appropriation for the 2018-19 financial year was some R7,48 billion with actual expenditure of some R7,45 billion. The ACDP notes with concern that the department received its fourth consecutive unqualified audit opinion with emphasis on additional matters. One of the serious concerns of the auditor general was on programme three pertaining to expanded public works programme where supporting evidence provided did not agree with the reported achievement of some 997 286 work opportunities as reported in the expanded public works programme.



Additionally, the auditor general could not determine whether the percentage of the EPWP participation of designated groups, of 68% women and 43% youth and 1%



people with disabilities as reported on the EPWP by public bodies required adjustments.



The ACDP and I believe other political parties raised serious concerns about IDT. It needs to go. The ACDP believes that it is now time to stop the talk fully blustering around fraud, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure and corruption. It is now time to take action. The ACDP supports this report.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker and hon members in the House, the NFP notes the BRR report on the portfolio committee on public works tabled here today. Allow me hon Deputy Speaker to express our concern at the state of affairs of this department. For years, this department has been performing dismally. Irregularities and the supply chain management continue unabated. We welcome the recommendation set by the committee and call on the Minister to report on the prestige projects in the Western Cape.



Minister, you have had a history of giving contracts people that are close to you. I do hope that you will not



do exactly the same thing here as the Minister of Public Works. One good example was the contract on water metres that was issued to one of the family members and I do hope and pray that you would have turned a new leaf in trying to put this particular department in order.



Infrastructure development is one of the driving forces behind economic growth. If you look at the water crisis that was created in the Western Cape that is one good example but the NFP gave a solution in terms of infrastructure development particularly in the water and sanitation when we said since contractors do not have the resources to get the material what we should be doing is providing them with the resources and material creating an industry where we can manufacture the goods. In that way there can be economic development and job creation in South Africa. We thank you. the NFP very reluctantly will support this BRR report.



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the role that is played by the department of public works in providing strategic leadership for the purpose of creating employment cannot be overlooked. This also leads to the



employment of some people who can be employed temporarily. So, that is at least a contribution to the idea of reducing employment in our country.



The departments must co-ordinate and enhance the capacity of the provincial and local government in this regard so as to get into the so called IGR, intergovernmental relations. Properties like old buildings must be renovated and used to generate funds. It is very much disappointing for the long lease that is owned by some people owning these properties because these should now be used for the purpose of generating funds. For instance now in our area we have a property that is owned by golf club people members. We once wanted to build a mall there but we were refused by these people because their lease is very much long. So, that should not be encouraged. So, we support the recommendations and the observations of this committee. Thank you very much.



Ms N NTOBONGWANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the report acknowledges the department’s implementation of commitments outlined by the ANC manifesto on combating



crime, corruption, restoring dignity of government and job creation.



The committee agreed that the department’s turnaround strategy had a positive effect and assisted to improve its audit outcome and that of its entities. As the committee we stated that there is a need to customise performance indicators for spheres of government that are benefiting from the EPWP grant. In this way, figures stated in key performance indicators in the annual performance plans of the EPWP would not lead to what hon Thring was saying here and as such, the audit evidence that the auditor general south Africa required was not in the control of the EPWP itself but in the information that has to be verified by the departments and provinces that are benefitting from EPWP.



As the committee, we also noted and welcomed what the Ministers announced that from the second quarter of the new financial year 2019-20 a key performance indicator would be added to the contracts of its senior manager that states clearly that a clean audit has to be achieved. We welcome that as the committee. We also said



that as a committee, the PSC investigation should be tabled to the committee by February 2020 and furthermore there must be investigation in the supply chain irregularities and prestige projects as highlighted by the auditor general’s report.



One thing that has been highlighted by auditor general report is that some of the boards of public works and its entities are not properly constituted and that has a negative impact on the proper accountability. As the ANC we welcome and support the Budgetary Review Recommendations. [Applause.]



Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate.



Dr M C C Pilane-Majake moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Ms N W A MAZONNE: House Deputy Speaker, when one reads





The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is a new portfolio.



Ms N W A MAZONNE: ... House Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, you know it is because you were so speedy today; you got all excited for having me at the podium.



If one looks at the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, report of the state capture and I say that once again, the hon Jefferey would do good to stop hackling and listen a little bit to the state capture given his portfolio, one would know that exactly how it reads is much like a horror story and not like a dream that was promised to us in this House. Reading this report one sees that Eskom is archaic in its structure and it is absolutely falling apart. We all know it cannot keep the lights on. Never mind the fact that the DA does issue forewarning SA Airways, SAA, lands up being grounded and causes chaos. The only thing that kept South Africans safe were the wonderful men and women who are



our pilots who refused to fly aeroplanes that were not safe.



Alexkor still remains directly linked to a Gupta family. Let me say that again, Alexkor remains directly linked to the Gupta family.



Denel, well we just pray that they can pay the salaries at the end of the month. However, let us be honest, as we read this horror story of the Department of Public Enterprises that is the department of state capture, so many of those that executed this grand scale corruption are sitting to my right, enjoying their chair people’s positions and, you know, no one seems to be doing anything about it while the country looks on in dismay.

So, I say shame to you and for anyone who approves this report.



The fact of the matter is this, this department should not exist. Eskom should be with the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy. Denel should be with the Department of Defence and Military Veterans; Alexkor should also be



with the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy and SAA should be with the Department of Transport.



There is absolutely no way that the DA, the Official Opposition of South Africa could accept a report in which we have said the Department of Public Enterprises as a whole should not exist and we encourage every party in this Parliament to follow suit. Let us close down this defunct department. [Applause.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, this committee report deals with the state-owned enterprises, SOEs, under public enterprises presided over by Mr Gordhan. The reality is that the committee does not challenge the philosophical direction Mr Gordhan wants to take in relation to these SOEs. That is subject them largely to privatisation. That is why we cannot associate ourselves with it.



For purposes of this declaration we pay special focus on Eskom. Firstly, Mr Gordhan releases the restructuring and recovery plan for Eskom today. This is before he even appoints a credible and competent leadership over Eskom.



Meaning he is imposing a plan on the Eskom leadership. He is essentially telling us that he is going to run Eskom himself. Why then he did not put his curriculum vitae, CV, in the mix.



In his paper on the recovery plan, Mr Gordhan says Eskom is too big to manage and I am quoting him verbatim. This is utter rubbish which exposes him as the worst man for the job. No different to the current chairperson, chief executive officer, CEO, and board, called Jabu Mabuza.

For until 10 years ago, Eskom was one of the world’s best power utilities, but it was around 2008 when things started going down the South as evergreen coal contracts started taking its all on Eskom and later complemented by Independent Power Producers, IPPs, that the problem started.



When Mr Gordhan says Eskom is too big to manage, he is trying to convince himself that the privatisation process which starts with the unbundling process will save the power utility when in fact it does not, but essentially disposes of it.



Nothing is actually original at all in this plan that he unveiled today. Mr Gordhan outsourced his thinking to Investec because everything in that paper comes from the Investec one page paper written in November last year. He is unoriginal and basically here to disempower the state’s capacity to deliver services that it ought to, so that we can depend on individually and privately-owned companies for our survival on electricity.



We reject this report. We reject the unbundling of Eskom as completely unoriginal and exposing Mr Gordhan as not the man for the job. Public enterprises must be shut down. It is an unnecessary department wasting taxpayers’ money. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, we must admit that the state-owned enterprises, SOEs, are a crisis.

These SOEs continues to be a burden on our limited resources. The IFP believes that at the core of these challenges that are faced by the SOEs is the lack of moral and ethical leadership. We have long called for various entities to be transferred to their respective line function departments.



Hon Deputy Speaker, it makes no sense that Passenger Rail of SA, Prasa, reports at the Department of Transport, but the SA Airways, SAA, reports to the Minister of Public Enterprises.



State interventions in the SOEs must be minimum in ensuring that they are successful. Yes, there is a place for the state to create an enabling environment, but entities should be self-sufficient to be able to deliver on their core mandate. The IFP therefore supports this Bill to pool all in a hope that the Minister will deal decisively and urgently with all forms of grafts, maladministration and those who are accused of wrongdoing must be held to account. Thank you.



Mr W W WESSELS: Hon Deputy Speaker, it is clear from this report that the ANC succeeded to completely destroy

state-owned entities. The ANC is at the core of these failed entities. The departments and the executives as a whole failed to do the necessary oversight and prevent the looting from happening. Consequences are lacking.



The board members, the accounting officers and the executives who were responsible for allowing the state- owned entities to be exploited, to be looted and to be mismanaged should be held accountable. These state-owned entities are nothing else than black holes for taxpayers money. The people of South Africa are suffering because of these failed state-owned entities.



We are facing an energy crisis, but the recovery plan and the turnaround plan announced by the Minister today will not address and selvage the situation. Everything that the ANC has touched needs a recovery plan. The reason why there is a Department of Public Enterprises was part of a turnaround strategy. Everything the ANC touches needs a recovery plan. We need to privatise these state-owned entities. This department is obsolete and should be terminated. I thank you. [Applause.]



Declarations of Vote:


Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP shares the deep concerns about the precarious state of our state-owned companies, SOCs, and of course Eskom in particular with a R450 billion debt presents the gravest threat to the



country’s finances given its debt and that R350 billion government guarantee it holds.



Load shedding, as we know, resulted in a 3,2% contraction in the economic growth in the first quarter of this year and we know the additional funding requirements that have placed a severe pressure and constraint upon the fiscus.



Today, the Minister announced the long-awaited restructuring plan in his Special Paper on Eskom and of course this would take some time to recover the looting and state capture that took place over a number of years.



The report also deals with the challenges facing Alexkor, Denel, SA Forestry Company Limited, Safcol, Transnet, SA Airways, SAA, and SA Express but the question arises, what role did the department play and what role should we play in exercising oversight?



Now, the committee notes in its report that the corrective measures to improve them, “SOCs performance have not been sufficiently addressed.”



Now this is probably the understatement of the year and we fully endorse that statement because the key to this lies in effective oversight by not only the department and I tend to agree that the department and the entity should be split into different portfolios as it is suggested.



But of course, Parliament’s oversight and it was indeed a highlight of my political career in the Fifth Parliament when we exercised oversight over Eskom. There are a number of significant recommendations in this Bill such as the Shareholders Management Bill and of course holding lifestyle audits.



So, in general, there is a proposal here but when one considers the state of our state-owned companies, regrettably, we will not be able to support this report but look forward to an improvement going forward. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, the NFP notes the Budget Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, on Public



Enterprises tabled here today. The NFP will support the report tabled here today.



Allow me to express our disappointment on some of these entities like Safcol and SA Airways for not even being able to provide an annual report for the 2018-20019 financial year.



Let me start off by addressing the issue of the SA Airways and I think as the NFP we have previously asked what the reason was that when it comes to the state-owned entities, they can not be profitable and yet when they are in private hands they are profitable.



And I think from the response you have now what is clear is that there has been political interference in the way we appoint these boards and cadre deployment and these are the things that have brought us to where we are in terms of the state-owned entities.



And it is for that reason, I want to plead with everybody today, as a result of the interference by Members of



Parliament, the government in state-owned entities, we are where we are.



Let us leave the Amabhokobhoko who are in Japan alone to do their business without any interference so that they can bring the cup home on Saturday afternoon.



Let me talk about the issue of Eskom, you know, year in and year out, we are asked to bail out Eskom. Again we have a management problem with Eskom but more importantly, while you are putting money into Eskom.

Eskom is owed billions of rand and that money is not coming into it.



So I think it is time that we address the issues of the debt to Eskom that are not paid by government departments particularly the municipalities and we need to deal with that.



SA Express has a serious problem, wanting more aircraft, do not have the money. And what happens at the end of the day, the passengers on those flights are now being put on to Comair and FlySafair. Now really it does not make



sense having our own airline but making use of other airlines. The NFP will support this.



Ms J TSHABALALA: Deputy Speaker, the BRRR process provides Parliament with an opportunity to exercise oversight on financial management and performance management against agreed targets and programmes. It also enables the ANC to ascertain whether the department has managed ANC government policies and programmes and assess the impact and quality expenditure hence the need to have the department itself, hon Mazzone.



Now, the philosophical discussions around it and we will tell you what the philosophical discussion, it is not the man; it is the ball itself that you need to play. In the view of the ANC, state-owned companies are not created to maximise profits or incur losses rather their existence is for the purpose of driving our national developmental agenda through or to strike a balance between self- funding and undertaking developmental projects.



The unfortunate narrative is our national discourse and SOCs has been dominated by allegations of state capture



and corruption and recently about bailouts. While we acknowledge the history and the depth of the challenges, it is time for the country to move and to focus on the delivery mandate of the SOCs and state-owned enterprises, SOEs.



Eskom, for instance, must focus on delivering affordable and reliable energy services to South Africans. Now, it is not a secret that the state of capture has left huge systematic black skilled professionals that we have lost through the state of capture. What we are saying is that there needs to be an improvement on the current generation available.



Now, we are speaking of the unbundling and the unbundling; we need to focus on the issue itself. It has started in 1998 when we delivered the White Paper. The issue of the National Development Plan, NDP, that empowers us to deal with the Integrated Resource and Resilience Planning, IRRP plan that was adopted by the Cabinet.



Now, the issue of transmission, what we want to say as the committee is that, the issue of privatisation, we are not going to privatise, FF Plus, you can do whatever, you can scream all you want. We are very clear and we are going to save Eskom.



And I want to tell and want to say to the department and the Ministry that we need a reliable source of energy, resolve operational issues and resolve cost issues and resolution on the debt issue.



While we are dealing with the issue of the mineral and energy mix ... [Time expired.] as the ANC we support, no to privatisation. [Applause.]



Division demanded.



The House divided.






Mr J W W JULIUS: Deputy Speaker!






Mr J W W JULIUS: I accidentally pressed the wrong button.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Press the last button.



Mr J W W JULIUS: I did. I did. [Interjections.] I am just honest, not like the others.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order hon members! Hon Julius, you should have listened. The order was that when you have done so you press the correct button. You do not have to announce it. There is no need to announce it.



Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, we don’t believe that. We want a recount because look at the benches. There could have been an arithmetical incapability or mistake of sorts.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No! That speculation will be attended to, in future. Today the vote stands sir. Thank you very much



Dr M Q NDLOZI: The second one is the temperature Deputy Speaker, it is unforgiving, this temperature.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The temperature will be attended to by the people who are in charge of the temperature here. [Interjections.] Order hon members! Please, let us proceed.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The secretary will read the Third Order.






The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Reports be adopted.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Members, any declarations?



Mrs N W A MAZZONE: Deputy Speaker, the DA would like to declare please.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon member of the DA.



Mrs N W A MAZZONE: Deputy Speaker, may I just have some clarity. When originally the police report was brought to us, we understood that it would be done together, in one report. Can I just have clarity from the ANC’s Deputy Chief Whip if that is it still the case or are we now going ahead with a separate items.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, what is presented before us is a separate thing so we will proceed with it separately. Whatever your agreement were, you haven’t communicated to the Chair. So the Order goes according to the dummy in front of me.





Speaker, I am advised that the agreement was that the reports will go together.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why was it not communicated to us? [interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, we would like to confirm that; that is the agreement which is being communicated to you now. So we must proceed.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, we proceed ... [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: We would like to confirm that; that was the agreement which is now being communicated to you.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now, hon members ... [Interjections.]



Dr M Q NDLOZI: Can we proceed as agreed?



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon members, you don’t work like that. You communicate with the Chair and you put it in the guidance that is given to us. So you can’t make decisions and not communicate with us. No! No! No! You can’t make decisions and not communicate to us. [Interjections.]





Speaker, I just want to apologise to the House because we were also not informed. We just got that now. Thank you.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Chief Whip, I want to restate that it makes sense to do it from three to six. So, is it how you were all prepared for?






Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker!



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you objecting to, hon Swart?



Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, we are unaware that there are separate issues and we have prepared to make the declarations separately. [Interjections.] I was the whips’ meeting and this was not discussed.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Who else, other than you, is also not ready to deal with them together?



Mr S N SWART: We are ready to deal with them separately.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hang on. I am asking a different question, sir. I want to know who else is like you. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] Look at them. They are three, four, five, and six. Do you want to declare separately on them?



Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, our view as the IFP was that, we would want to declare them together. But when we consulted, they then said we would have to debate them separately which we then prepared. I just came now to confirm with the gentleman who was there at the Table. [Interjections.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay. Hon members, I am requesting you that we agree to deal with them together. [Applause.] I must express my support to you Mr Ngwezi as you stand there and what you are saying, except to plead with you that you must be combat-ready, as they say somewhere else where I come from. I know you are capable of being




Can we do that so that we are able to manage those four? It will not prevent any substantive management of those



issues at their appropriate time. So I recommend that we go ahead with that. Go ahead, hon member. Let’s first read all of them together, before you proceed, sir. Take your seat. Please read them as the procedure requires us to do.











There was no debate.



Dr M C C Pilane-Majake moved that the Reports be adopted.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are going to proceed with them in the order that they are read, but I want to insist that this will not be allowed. I will communicate it to the rest of the presiding officers. If it is not presented to us as a single declaration opportunity, we will deal with it one after the other. Sir, we are ...



Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, sorry, these are matters of great substance. Now we have two minutes for the total.

Can we not allow an extra minute just to cover all these issues ...



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, sir. Thank you. With the greatest respect, the answer is no. Proceed, hon member. [Interjections.] Order; order. Proceed, sir.



Declarations of vote:


Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Deputy Speaker, South Africa is plagued by very levels of crime like murder and robbery, crimes against women and children, xenophobia, etc. At the moment, our SA National Defence Force members are still deployed in the Western Cape to strengthen the police in the effort to stop the ongoing slaughtering,



especially of young men in the never-ending gang wars. The women of this country were also driven to a point where they took a united stand to make their voice heard. Enough is enough, they say.



This sparked the new general stance amongst all South Africans who are also now saying, enough is really now enough. In fact, the huge amount of money totaling

R97,3 billion spent annually on safety without achieving desired outcomes make it obvious that something will have to be done differently in future. The police will have to develop and implement a revised policy approach that will address the co-mandate of fighting crime. The President, in his state of the nation address, also indicated that we need to address these serious issues. The other institutions like the Civilian Secretariat, Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, Psira, must be funded appropriately to enable them to fulfil their role in the country’s fight against crime. Today the DA also echoes the nation’s stance, enough is enough! The report that we have represents all the views and on that basis –



and that basis only, the DA support this report. I thank you.



Mr W T MAFUYA: Deputy Speaker, the EFF rejects the Budget Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, on the SA Police Service, Ipid, the Hawks, the Civilian Secretariat for Police and the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority. We have observed a rapid rise in the levels of crime in this country for the past couple of decades - an indication on the fact that the SAPS and the Hawks are completely out of debts and cannot fight crime and protect our society from the scourge of crime.



There is little capacity to investigate and ensure sufficient evidence for prosecution of sexual violence against women and children. As a result, many cases of rape and sexual assault go unreported. Equally, we have known for years that the Cape Flats is a den for drug lords and gang leaders, leading to daily murders of innocent people. The recent deployment of soldiers has done very little to protect the people of Cape Flats from these criminals. The drug lords are known and the gang leaders are also known. It is the investigative capacity



of the SAPS and the Hawks that is lacking. There is a result of many things, principal amongst which is the gross incompetence of those leading the SAPS. For example, the Auditor-General reported irregular expenditure of over R1,8 billion.



There was also material underspending of R1,2 billion on detective services. For these, there have been no one who was held accountable and the Minister has not exercised his oversight responsibility regarding financial and performance reporting. We must therefore call for a complete overhaul and resource all these institutions with capable leaders who can ensure us that our society is safe. We reject the BRRR. Thank you, sir. [Applause.]



Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members and hon Minister, I would like to applaud the introduction of the SA Police Service and the Vodacom crime-fighting App. The IFP welcomes the first effort to embrace the Fourth Industrial Revolution in this regard. From the outset we saw these obvious advantages to link technology to public participation models of crime. We hope that upon its success, this App is swiftly rolled out to the larger



citizenry but remain mindful of its potential to be hacked where sensitive information may be kept.



Minister, we call on you to ensure that adequate measures are put in place in case this App is hacked and people who report crime anonymously are not exposed. One way to protect the identity of people would be not to require any particularity from a person which may expose their identity or location. While we applaud your efforts with regards to the App, however, we want to draw your attention to the Budget Review and Recommendation Report. Some of the findings have been unacceptable regarding the Auditor-General’s report. We note that the SAPS has not sufficiently implemented a plan to address the qualified audit opinion to turn around the huge amounts of irregular expenditure.



Furthermore, the R1 billion and more irregular expenditure figures could not be properly accounted for by the Auditor-General as the SAPS seemingly did not make a full disclosure to the Auditor-General. If this is the case, we feel that this is a gross violation and undermines the intended need for checks and balances



within our state. Minister, you need to ensure that the SA Revenue Service, Sars, makes a full and unechoed disclosure of its irregular expenditure. Finally, we call on you, hon Minister, to spearhead the drive to ensure those who were involved in unauthorised irregular expenditure to face appropriate consequences for the allocations. I support the report.



Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, according to the Auditor-General’s report, the SAPS received a third qualified audit for the 2018-19 financial year. This is deeply disappointing. The Auditor-General was reportedly unable to obtain sufficient appropriate audit evidence that all irregular expenditure incurred for the current and previous years had been properly accounted for.



The Auditor-General has for many years raised concerns about payments made in contravention of the supply chain management requirement and this still continues. The underspending of R1,13 billion in the Detective Services Programme is embarrassing, to say the least. How can the department win the fight against crime when the detectives are not using their full allocation to



investigate and to be trained? Murderers and rapists are frequently let off the hook because of insufficient evidence and poor investigation being done by our detectives.



Relatives of the victims of crime are turning to AfriForum to help solve their cases because the police have failed them. It is unfortunate that the National Prosecuting Authority was quick to warn the family of the late Orlando Pirates and Bafana Bafana skipper Senzo Meyiwa against sharing the details of the police investigation into his death. Sifiso, Senzo’s brother is on record as saying and I quote: “We know that AfriForum does not take bribes, they are going to solve this case.”



What does this mean? The impression that the SAPS is giving to our people is that they are corrupt and they are being bribed. The ACDP therefore calls on the police Minister to ensure that there are consequences in the department for all transgressors of legislature, particularly those related to supply chain management, and that money allocated to fight crime is used wisely and effectively. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: The NFP welcomes and supports the BRRR tabled here today. Now, the responsibility of this department is to ensure the safety of our citizen and visitors at large. The question is, Is this the case? The response is unfortunately and emphatically, no. It is not always the SA Police Service that must take the responsibility for the failure of ensuring the safety of our people. Contributing factors include high unemployment, lack of housing or proper housing, lack of electricity, lack of water and sanitation, lack of street lights, lack of roads, high substance abuse, including teenage pregnancy. Unless all the relevant departments like Basic Education, Higher Education, Social Development, Water and Sanitation, and all the others, including Home Affairs come together in a concerted effort to work together, the future is very bleak - particularly for a safe South Africa.



Minister, whilst you are here, I want to draw your attention to another great challenge that you are going to be experiencing shortly, particularly in the Western Cape, and that is the violence that is brewing in the towing industry. Already there has been damage to



property; there has been shooting; there has been loss of life in this, already in the Western Cape - particularly in Cape Town. Unless you start addressing these things, we are going to run into trouble.



The NFP is calling for the professionalisation of the SAPS by introducing policing into the curriculum in schools so that it can attract those with the passion for policing, but very little or nothing has happened about it. I will give an example of when people or victims who are refusing to go out and report to police station because of the ineffective detective work.



I have case number 333 of August 2019 from Mfuleni Police Station, and another one is case number 320 of September 2019 from Milnerton Police Station. To date, the victims have heard absolutely nothing from SA Police Service.

Gang violence continues; drug trade continues; drive-by shooting continues; rape continues; murder continues.

Independent Police Investigative Directorate does not even have the efficacy to deal with this. [Time expired.] The NFP supports this report.



Mr K MAPHATSOE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, the ANC welcomes and supports the Budget Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Police. The report acknowledges the commitment by the department to implement the priorities outlined by the President in the state of the nation address on the fight against gender-based violence, corruption and community oriented policing. This include the finalisation of the strategic plan on gender-based violence by the department, the strengthening of the capacity and record keeping of family violence, child protection and sexual offences units. The portfolio committee welcomes the establishment of the Investigating Directorate in the Office of the National Director for Public Prosecutions to deal with and prosecute serious corruption and associated offences.



The portfolio committee is concerned about the irregular expenditure by the department. The committee has resolved to ensure that the department must turn things around on irregular expenditure. This includes the implementation of the audit action plan which will be monitored by the portfolio committee on a quarterly basis and the



appointment of the new audit committee not later than 1 November 2019 and an enforcement of consequence management for any irregular expenditure.



We welcome the undertaking by the department to recruit more reservists to assist in the fight against crime and the inclusion of community policing in all departmental outreach and awareness events. We urge the department to ensure that all police stations have DNA rape kits to fast track cases of rape. The department is also urging to meet the target for employment of people with disabilities. The ANC supports the BRRR on Police.



Mr J W W JULIUS: Deputy Speaker, the DA never said no.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is fine, we will take it. You must advice your members not to scream, no. [Interjections.]



Mr J W W JULIUS: Deputy Speaker, can we advise you to make sure what you hear ...



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no. Hon Julius, you like debating unnecessary issues. I have heard you, take your seat and cool your heels a little bit. [Interjections.]



Motion agreed to.



Report on Independent Police Investigative Directorate accordingly adopted (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report on Civilian Secretariat for Police Service 2018/19 Annual Report accordingly adopted (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report on 2018/19 Annual Report of South African Police Service accordingly adopted (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).






The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Ms H S WINKLER: Deputy Speaker, the Department of Social Development continues to ignore recommendations made by the Auditor-General to correct gross, unauthorised, fruitless and wasteful expenditure. All South Africans, particularly the 40% living below the poverty line, can only ask, does this ANC-led government even care, burning billions of rands together with our youth and country’s future.



Ironically, it is because of this government’s blatant disregard for the poor that they will never realise their own National Development Plan, NDP, goal to eradicate poverty by 2030. There is neither accountability nor assurance provided by senior management, the accounting officer or the executive authorities of the Department of Social Development, Sassa, and of the National Development Agency, NDA.



Perhaps there should be less performance bonuses to senior management, more dismissals and more immediate corrective action. The message to be received loud and clear must be that our vulnerable citizens deserve more than officials not showing up to hotel bookings.



Children go to bed hungry. Pensioners scrape by to survive, all while this department continues in a state of denial, blatantly ignoring the remedies spoon-fed to them by the Auditor-General.



The DA welcomes the Auditor-General’s Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report.



As a caring party, the DA will continue to support the fight against poverty. [Applause.]



Ms D B NGWENYA: Chairperson, firstly, the functions of this department are directly linked to the work of the Department of Health. So, essentially, instead of having two separate Ministers doing work that overlap, we should have one department of social development and health.



Secondly, with the scourge of gender-based violence on the rise, the department should provide a clear programme that addresses gender-based violence, homicide and the abuse of children, with a clear budget allocation.

Thuthuzela Care Centres should be capacitated with both well-trained human resources and tools of trade. We must also build enough rehabilitation centres for the young people whose socioeconomic conditions force them into drug addiction. Nyaope, tik and flakka are killing our young people and this department isn’t doing enough to help rehabilitate them back to normality.



In term of the audit report provided by the Auditor- General, senior management within the department and its entities lack accountability. This means that recommendations by the Auditor-General have not been adhered to.



The department can easily resolve these issues if they prioritise the following: accountability formula should be developed and defined for monitoring and consequence management; vacant key positions impacting on audit outcomes and accountability must be filled urgently;



accounting officers or senior management must be held accountable for noncompliance.



This department is at an advanced state of degeneration. Something must be done to clean up the mess left by the previous Minister. The deadline on the foster care system backlog of 28 November 2019 given by the North Gauteng High Court will never be met. This is due to the fact that ...



The EFF rejects this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. [Time expired.]



Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chairperson, we are often told that there is simply no money for more social workers, no money to increase the social grants, no money for shelters for abused women and children, and not enough money to fight gender-based violence and other social ills such as drug abuse.



It is therefore simply unforgiveable that the Department of Social Development squandered R2 billion in irregular and fruitless expenditure over the past financial year,



mainly due to Sassa’s habit of paying contractors for services that were never rendered. To make matters worse, the Auditor-General was unable to find sufficient evidence of disciplinary action taken against relevant officials.



It is the IFP’s view that the days of zero accountability for rogue Social Development officials must come to an end. Every mismanaged cent must be recovered and implicated officials must be held to account and even sent to jail for misusing monies meant for the most vulnerable in our society.



Allow me also to highlight some other areas of concern for the IFP. This department remains in a perpetual crisis mode. Not long after it recovered from its self- made Sassa crisis, it now faces a self-made foster care crisis. This means the department’s inaction to comply with yet another court order has again placed at risk many vulnerable children of not receiving their grants at the end of this year.



In addition to this crisis, more than 5 000 social workers trained by the state remain unemployed, while their skills are critically needed, Fraud continues to plague the grant system, with syndicates unlawfully making money from pensioners and other grant recipients, while gender-based violence remains a crisis.



Despite these concerns, the IFP believes Minister Zulu, the new chairperson of our committee and the committee as a whole have shown passion and commitment to deal with the above-mentioned challenges decisively. The IFP will therefore support this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. Thank you.



Ms T BREEDT: Madam Chair, during our Budget Vote’s debate earlier this year, I quoted the department, and reminded them of what they said was their core mandate, and I would like to quote that partially again:



We endeavour to create a better for the poor, vulnerable and excluded in our society. Our task is to develop and monitor the implementation of social policy that —



... and this is very important —



... both creates an enabling environment for and leads to the reduction in poverty.



I fear that this is not what we are necessarily seeing from the department, and this is a matter of grave concern. There are a number of studies that were done on Sassa grants specifically and how the new system works. The new system is challenging, to say the least. The studies found that the most pressing concern to grant beneficiaries was the lack of dignity for the elderly who now wait in long queues without seating, toilets, water or shelter. It was also found that it is more expensive to collect grants through the new system, especially via ATMs and retail outlets.



Furthermore, if there was a problem with a grant, recourse was difficult, as grant beneficiaries would then have to travel additionally to Sassa regional offices.



The Auditor-General found that the Social Development portfolio had regressed in its attempts to improve its



key controls and address its risk areas. Noncompliance with applicable legislation, policies and directives was identified as the root cause.



It was also found that NDA officials who deliberately ignored their duties and contravened legislation were not held accountable for their actions.



What is even more alarming than consequence management not being done and having zero assurance in management, is the fact that the department is not serious about the way it spends money and investigates irregular expenditure that amounts to R1,8 billion.



It is welcoming to see that previous years’ recommendations are being looked at and are being progressed. We will keep holding the department accountable and we will ensure that it follows this important mandate. Thank you.



Ms M E SUKERS: Chair, the committee asked the department to focus on projects that will build on its commitment to be successful so that there can be a success story.



We are living in a time that demands that we do things differently and with speed to address high levels of poverty and inequality. To this end, we can think of the NDA as a Cinderella that was not invited to the ball and whose beauty is not fully realised. The NDA is perfectly positioned to be a partner with government departments as far as community development projects are concerned through local Civil Society Organisations, CSOs, co- operatives and small, medium and micro-sized enterprises, SMMEs.



In this regard, it should be an implementing agency of government departments, much like the Department of Basic Education, particularly with regard to the current Accelerated Schools Infrastructure Delivery Initiative, Asidi, programme. The programme is experiencing implementation challenges in the Eastern Cape and

KwaZulu-Natal because communities do not feel that the programme contributes to their development.



The NDA as a community development implementing agent should be involved in the Asidi programme to identify relevant CSOs, SMMEs or co-operatives, capacitate them



and link them to the programme. This will expand the footprint of the NDA and achieve government’s objective of integrated service delivery between government departments. This will also eliminate delays in the construction of schools, something which has resulted in irregular expenditure.



The linkage between services and programmes is critical in an environment of economic decline.



We support this department’s Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. [Time expired.]



Declarations of vote (Cont...)


Mr M GUNGUBELE: Hon Chair, the ANC rises to support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation report. I do want to acknowledge on behalf of the committee that there is an attempt to find the healthy balance between nonpartisanship and partisanship in the interest of the country. And there is an attempt to ensure that there is a constructive relationship between the department and the committee, a commitment to use oversight not as a tool of conflict, but as a tool of effective



accountability. That is the spirit that is governing the committee.



I do want to say though that the Auditor-General, AG, didn’t have good stories to say about the department, especially regarding the R2 billion irregular expenditure which was not properly processed over time. I am happy to say that we have been able to ask the department to put together a plan of action to make sure that it is not business as usual. Based on that the committee is committed and we will be meeting tomorrow to ensure that there is an action plan on the recommendations of the committee.



With all these challenges and the constructive relationship that is there between the committee, the Minister and the department, we have no doubt that this will be turned around. As a result, our eyes are stronger on the windscreen rather than on the rear mirror. In that point the ANC supports the budget. Thank you very much.



Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.



Mr J J MAAKE: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the ANC that in its next sitting the House debates the establishment of a fully resourced youth development directorate at various spheres of government. I thank you



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): That was a notice of a motion






(Draft Resolution)



Mr B A HADEBE: Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that with great part that the ten of our female officers from the South African National Defence Force were chosen to attend the United Nations open debate on women, peace and security in New York on 25 October 2019;



(2) acknowledges that the ten women are women that have not only been in peace keeping missions but are women who have been in the front in the fight against negative forces;



(3) further acknowledges that the event aims to highlight the significant role of women in conflict prevention globally;



(4) understands that the soldiers have been invited by the United Nations, UN, to give their account of peace keeping missions in the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, Sudan and other parts of Africa; and



(5) salutes these women officials who are pioneers of bravery. I thank you.



Agreed to







(Draft Resolution)





Mr W F FABBER: Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that the House congratulates the Springboks with their no biting 19-16 victory over Wales in Yokohama on Sunday;



(2) notes that the Springboks are now only one game away from lifting the Webb Ellis Cup if the can out play England in the finals;



(3) further notes that this will not be easy to achieve but with the quality of players in the team, we should be able to push through and bring the trophy home;



(4) recognises that England is a first to be reckoned with but believe it could be the repeat of the 2007 final show down when the Springbok beat England 15–6 in the Paris final; and



(5) we wish them well in the final to repeat the history to lift the cup in the air in triumph as Women’s Sevens team just won by winning the Africa Rugby Sevens Cup in Tunisia a week ago, we should give them applause, Springboks, remember that 57 million South African will rally behind you in this final encounter. Bokke all the way up! I so move.



Agreed to






(Draft Resolution)



Mr H A SHEMBENI: Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that Tonga Police station in Kumasi, Mpumalanga is left without capacity because police officers resign, get transferred and other



police officers die and are not replaced by the police force;



(2) recognises that the Tonga police station used to have capacity of detectives and visible policing members;



(3) further recognises that when Tonga police station had full capacity, crime rate in Tonga Kamaqhekeza and block B was very low and now it’s getting higher;



(4) acknowledges that for South Africa to fight crime especially gender based violence against women and children, our police stations must maintain capacity according to the approved resource allocation guide that is the Rag, to ensure that all police stations are fully capacitated and operational; and



(5) resolves that the House must receive a special quarterly report from the portfolio committee of



police on the state of police stations in the country. I so move



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Adv H MAHOMMED: Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that this House welcomes the appointment by President Ramaphosa of the recently retired Constitutional Court Justice Edwin Cameron as the new inspecting judge of the judicial inspectorate for correctional services for a three year term with effect from 3 January 2020;



(2) acknowledges the disappointments makes it much more possible for the judiciary inspectorate and



the inspecting judge to make an impact and ensure that major constitutional rights are respected; and



(3) that this congratulates Justice Cameron and have no doubt that he will continue to advance the dignity equal treatment for all within the correctional system. I so move.



Agreed to






(Draft Resolution)



Mr X NGWEZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that the House recognises the severe water shortages facing the Kwa-Zulu Natal and some areas in the South Coast;



(2) further recognises that the intimate water shortage has left many areas in the central and northern regions of South Africa without water;



(3) notes that day zero is slowly looming as water sources have dried up in the district region;



(4) further notes that as a cautionary measure, many water restrictions have been imposed in major metros;



(5) acknowledges the value of water and the need for sustainable management of this scarce resource; and



(6) calls on the Department of Human Settlement, Water and Sanitation to prioritise rural communities when redressing the effects of this water shortage issue and for all South Africans to ensure that they use water sparingly as a country from a string of heat waves. I so move.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms R C ADAMS: Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that the House welcomes the well deserved award of commendation of the New Brighton Singapi Street by the South African Institute of Architects, Eastern Cape region;



(2) notes that the acclamation rewards excellence in architecture, recognising its vital contribution to the urban of Singapi Street



(3) acknowledges that Singapi Street is a major thoroughfare in reared location New Brighton, an area with a rich history dating back more than a century;



(4) further acknowledges that it is also a gateway for the celebration of reared location, cultural predict and the environmental upgrade of the street was a key connecter for creating continuity in the inner city and the reared location museum; and



(5) congratulates all participants in this inclusive process which allowed patens to influence and share control over the development initiatives and resources which affect them. I so move



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the sadness and tragic death of Andile Gumbi an accomplished and much loved actor and singer who passed away in Israel on Friday, 25 October 2019 after suffering a cardiac arrest;



(2) further notes that the actor who is best known for his roles as Zweli on Isibaya and Simba in the Lion King and was performing in a stage production of Daniel The Musical at the time of his death; and



(3) expresses its deepest condolences to his wife, Mrs Gumbi, family friends and the cast of Daniel The Musical at this sad time, our thoughts and prayers are with you. I so move



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms D KOHLER: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:



That the House –



(1) notes that the Bluff ward of the Central Durban constituency was awarded international Whale Heritage Site status;



(2) notes further that Bluff Ward Councillor  J P Prinsloo worked day and night with the

South Durban Steering Committee to bid for the status inspired by the World Whale Conference held in Durban in June 2017;



(3) realises that Whale Heritage Sites are an initiative aimed at increasing the protection and conservation of whales, dolphins and porpoises and their habitats, while also contributing to sustainable livelihoods, the arts, science and education;



(4) understands that Whale Heritage Sites are the gold standard for responsible whale watching destinations worldwide and that now the Bluff in Durban has such status, which will bring regional, national and global attention to the area and will help promote sustainable tourism, marine conservation and the whale-related heritage of the community;



(5) further understands that of nine international applications, only two were successful – one in Hervey Bay in Australia and the other in the other in the Bluff, Durban;



(6) recognises that the potential economic impact on the South Durban Basin and eThekwini as a whole is tremendous and will be embraced by all stakeholders who will benefit from the steering committee’s achievement;



(7) further recognises that the Bluff offers a historic whaling station and many opportunities



for whale and dolphin watching along the extensive coast; and



(8) congratulates Ward Councillor J P Prinsloo and committee members Nonjabulo Dladla, Amanda Janse van Rensburg, Helga du Preez, Dudu Ntombela and Emil Unger.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are there any objections? [Interjections.] Thank you. The motion will become a notice of a motion. [Interjections.]






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M N PAULSEN: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:



That the House-



(1) notes the admission by the Minister of Mineral Resources and Energy, Mr Gwede “the Tiger”



Mantashe, that he paid a bribe to two Sunday Times journalists not to write a story which he today denies;



(2) recognises that the alleged misconduct of the Minister is not in accordance with the code of ethics, and undermines our country’s democratic values;



(3) further recognises that if Ministers and leaders in society can admit to misconduct without any consequences, such will normalise unethical behaviour;



(4) acknowledges that a man who is willing to bribe journalists is willing to be bribed himself and cannot be trusted with public office; and



(5) calls on Minister “Tiger” to do the right thing and tender his resignation and present himself to the nearest police station immediately when the Sunday Times presents evidence.






The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Are there any objections to the motion?



An HON MEMBER: The ANC vehemently objects.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The objection is taken on board, and the motion will become a notice of a motion. [Interjections.]






(Draft Resolution)



Ms D P SIBIYA: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:



That the House-



(1) applauds United States astronauts Christina Koch and Jessica Meir, who became the first all-female pairing to carry out a spacewalk on



Friday, 18 October 2019, following a spacesuit flub earlier this year that caused the historic mission to be aborted;



(2) acknowledges that Ms Koch was leading Ms Meir, in her first ever spacewalk, where the two replaced a faulty battery charge-discharge unit, BCDU;



(3) understands that the station relies on solar power but is out of direct sunlight for much of its orbit and therefore needs batteries, and the BCDUs regulate the amount of charge that goes into them; and



(4) congratulates both the astronauts for their history-making spacewalk.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr A M SHAIK IMAM: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the NFP:



That the House-



(1) notes that on Sunday, 27 October 2019, the Hindu community worldwide and particularly in South Africa celebrated the holy festival of Diwali at a celebration held in Pretoria, close to the Union Buildings, where members of the Hindu community were celebrating this festival and that at about 7pm the fireworks display started;



(2) also notes that there were about 60 to 80 people in attendance;



(3) notes further that the display of fireworks is part of the festival of Diwali;



(4) further notes that a white male approached the gathering and hurled abuse at the guests that were celebrating the festival of Diwali;



(5) also notes that he referred to members of the Indian community in derogatory terms such as “coolies” and the K-word, whereupon an altercation ensued and almost turned violent;



(6) condemns this act of racism; and



(7) calls on the SA Police Service and the Human Rights Commission to intervene in this matter and ensure that justice is done in bringing the perpetrator to account for his irresponsible actions.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. Are there any objections to the motion? None.



Agreed to.



Mr M N PAULSEN: Hon House Chair, the hon Zulu just said now that Indians must go back to their country.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, what are you saying? Hon member, please ... Why are you rising? Why are you rising, hon member?



Mr M N PAULSEN: That hon member just said now that Indians must go back to their land. [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Why do you laugh? You are playing now. We are not here to play. I’m not even going to entertain that. It is not a point of order.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms V P MALOMANE: House Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:



That the House-



(1) notes with great pride that the choral group, the Ndlovu Youth Choir, recently returned from Hollywood with a global recording deal;



(2) further notes that they also spent hours in a studio recording their new album, which is to be released next month;



(3) acknowledges that the choir shot to international stardom on the reality show America’s Got Talent where they lost in the final, but that they have managed to sign a contract with Sony Music Entertainment;



(4) further acknowledges that the group had three sold-out shows in Utrecht, Germany, and recently performed with rapper Kwesta at the African Fashion Unites show in Sandton; and



(5) congratulates the choir on their success and wishes them well in their future endeavours.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr L N NTSHAYISA: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the AIC:



That the House-



(1) congratulates Kaizer Chiefs Football Club on their win against Mamelodi Sundowns on Sunday,

27 October 2019;



(2) notes that “AmaKhosi” beat Sundowns 2-0 in front of a crowd of supporters from both teams;



(3) realises that it was not expected that Kaizer Chiefs would beat Sundowns, as Sundowns had been winning except for the last game before the one on Sunday;



(4) further notes that the Sundowns coach pretended that he was not worried or afraid of Kaizer Chiefs ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Sit down, hon Mashego.






... played mind games, as Abafana bokuthula noxolo were waiting and looking forward to the game, while the humble Kaizer Chiefs coach, Ernst Middendorp, kept quiet ... that the humble man led the Sundowns ... [Inaudible.]




Mr M R MASHEGO: Chair, on a point of order!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ntshayisa, please take your seat. Why are you rising, hon member? It’s not ... [Inaudible.] ... and I did not switch anything off here.



Mr T W MHLONGO: Hon Chair, Mamelodi Sundowns is the champions of South Africa ... [Interjections.] ... the best team in the world. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, let’s not do that. Are you done?



Mr L N NTSHAYISA: I’m not done. Hey, these people! [Laughter.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You still have about 10 seconds.






(5) notes that Amakhosi are now on top of the Premier Soccer League log and that this win happened on the day of the birth of Oliver Tambo, and that they are now preparing for the big Soweto indaba against Pirates on Saturday; and



(6) urges Amakhosi to keep it up.






The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are there any objections to the motion? [Interjections.] It is very difficult. You are dividing us now. [Interjections.] There is no objection.



Agreed to.



An HON MEMBER: I believe, Chairperson, that Orlando Pirates is the best team. [Interjections.] Now, we want to object on behalf of Pirates. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I think you need a debate on these teams; not now, please. Not now because you are dividing us. The motion is agreed to, by the way.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms N NTOBONGWANE: House Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:



That the House-



(1) notes with great pride that eight-year-old Minentle Miya was a cadet champion qualifier for the World Chess Youth Tournament in China last month;



(2) further notes that in the Cadet Programme, Minentle had to achieve the highest scores in her age group and gender group in South Africa;



(3) acknowledges that although she returned home without a medal she won the award for the 2019 Momentum Girls’ School Sports Star of the Year in August this year, becoming the youngest winner to date;



(4) further acknowledges that she also received an award for the most promising athlete at the Gauteng Sports Awards on 29 September 2019;



(5) understands that she is now preparing for the African Championships in Namibia; and



(6) congratulates her on her success and wishes her well for her participation in future tournaments, where we have no doubt she will emerge victorious.



Agreed to.



Mr A C ROOS: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) congratulates Shiela Lynn Senkubuge on winning the excellence in Leadership Award at the 2019 Women in Transport Awards;



(2) notes that Women in Transport Awards provides a platform to celebrate the success of women transforming the transport sector;



(3) recognises Ms Senkubuge’s groundbreaking initiative with the DA-led City of Tshwane being the first in South Africa to launch a free bus service for the unemployed youth and the first to implement a booking system for the renewal of drivers licenses to reduce queues;



(4) further recognises that under Ms Senkubuge’s leadership, the City of Tshwane finished

runner-up in the Best Smart Ticketing Programme in the world, at the Transport Ticketing Global Awards, 2019; and



(5) further congratulates Ms Senkubuge for also scooping the award for the most influential woman in local government at the 2019 Pan– African awards.



I so move. [Applause.]



Mr M NYHONTSO: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-





(1) notes that October 29 marks 29 years since the death of PAC’s second President, Zephaniah Lekoame Mothopeng;



(2) further notes that Mr Mothopeng was:



(a) was the first students to obtain a post- matriculation Teachers Certificate at Amanzimtoti; and



(b) Mothopeng started teaching at Orlando Secondary School in 1941, and during his time as a teacher, he held various positions in teachers’ associations including the Presidency of the Transvaal African Teachers’ Association, TATA;



(3) recalls that Mothopeng acted as the Chairman at the inaugural conference of the PAC on 6 April 1959 at Orlando Communal Hall, where Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe was elected the first President;



(4) further recalls that Mothopeng was charged with having recruited and sending men out of the country for military training, and with having instigated unrest in the township of Kagiso, near Krugersdorp in 1976;



(5) believes that Mothopeng was central to what is now known as the 16 June 1976 unrest and was accused number 1 in what was known as the Bethal trial, and at the age of 63, he was sentenced to 30 years; and



(6) recognises that the he was elected as the President of the PAC in 1986 whilst in prison.



So I move. Know your history.



Agreed to.



Ms V T MALINGA: House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes with great pride that the SA netball team were crowned the 2019 Africa Netball Cup champions on Tuesday, 22 October 2019 at the Bellville Velodrome in Cape Town;



(2) further notes that the Proteas defeated Zambia 72-53 to win their sixth consecutive game in the tournament and claimed their title;



(3) understands that the Africa Netball Cup also helped the Proteas in their series of matches against England in November 2018 to 1 December 2018;



(4) further understands that this was the perfect test for the newly appointed coaching staff under head coach Dorette Badenhorst and assistant coach Dumisani Chauke; and



(5) congratulates the Proteas netball team for a very good performance and contribution to the sporting code.



So I move.



Agreed to.





respectfully I waited for the end of the Motions, and I rise on Rule 91. I think that I cannot live with what hon Paulsen said, because I think it’s not correct and it’s not fair for him to use this platform and completely distort me.



I never said that Indians must go back to England, and the reason why I’m rising is because I want the hon member to withdraw, because this is going to be on record, and I am the last person in this House who can actually utter such statement. So, the member must withdraw because he knows that he is not telling the truth. I never said so.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): In the light of the explanation given by the Minister, hon Paulsen, did you really hear the Minister saying what you said she said?



Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, if she didn’t say so, I would gladly withdraw, but I like you to refer to the Hansard rather.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much for that. Thank you hon Zulu, we now proceed to Statements.







(Member’s Statement)



Ms A S HLONGO (ANC): The ANC notes the importance of community radio stations to give a voice to community and promote public participation. The ANC adds its voice to the concerns raised about problems affecting 40 South African community radio stations such as licenses, debts, funding and issues related to governance and accountability. Notwithstanding the various challenges these community radio stations face, they should be assisted to overcome these challenges particularly as we celebrate 25 years of democracy.



The ANC welcomes the recent intervention by the Ministers in the Presidency and communications and digital technologies where an urgent meeting is to be held with stakeholders to deal with all these challenges. Thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr M J CUTHBERT (DA): Hon Madam Chair, it seems like the ANC is one man race-raking bull is at it again. MEC Panyaza Lesufi’s recent comments are another attempt to drive the racial wedge amongst South Africans. On 27 October 2019, Mr Lesufi took to social media to highlight his disgust at the alleged public display of the old South African flag at the Rugby World Cup match being played between South Africa versus Wales.



However it was later discovered that the Springbok fan at the centre of Mr Lesufi’s attack was in fact holding the new South African flag. Go, figure! Therefore, I would offer the House to take note of the following: This is



not the first time that Mr Lesufi has sort to divide our country along racial lines. On 24 June 2019 he visited the Centurion Based Crèche where he falsely bemoaned the fact that children and staff were segregated on the basis of race and on 24 September 2019, he labelled the creation of the private Afrikaans University by the trade union Solidarity as a race-based institution.



It is true that Mr Lesufi is a serial race batter who seeks to divide South Africans on the basis of race. Therefore the DA calls on the ANC to stage the intervention with Mr Lesufi so that he may be made acutely aware of the fact that his behaviour has no place in a nonracial and prosperous South Africa.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr P P KEETSE (EFF): Hon House Chair, we have 26 universities in this country and with the estimated student population of just about 1,2 million. In November



last year, 2018, he asked the Minister in terms of the number of students that each and every institution is able to house students. We were told that it is just

128 000 students that universities themselves are able to accommodate. That means it is less than 18% of the total student population in this country that can only be accommodated in site campus residences.



This means that over one million students are going to rely heavily on private accommodation. We are well aware that National Student Financial Aid Scheme, Nsfas together with individual institutions they have the accreditation mechanism with these private accommodations and they agree on a capped and fixed amount of accommodation money from the Nsfas.



With that being said, we are well aware that these private accommodation companies continue to evict students who are on Nsfas precisely because Nsfas can only pay students R3 400 a month of which South Pond and Res Republic charge exorbitant figures like R4 800 which requires Nsfas bazaars to come back and top up on the rand that is billed built to them. Of course we know that



Nsfas ##### (Inaudible) money. We want to call all student formations to come together and fight these comrades who keep on evicting our people. [Time expired.]






(Member’s Statement)



Ms E D PETERS (ANC): Hon House Chairperson, on Sunday, October 27, 2019, the hon President spoke at the commemoration of struggle veterans Oliver and Adelaide Tambo held in Tamboville in the City of Ekurhuleni. The annual commemoration is aimed at preserving the legacy of the two liberation leaders – OR Tambo and his wife and leader Mama Adelaide – to promote values they stood and left for.



The 2019 commemoration took place under the theme “Celebrating the 90th birthday of Mama Adelaide Tambo”. The President shared with all that OR Tambo never sought high office and his lack of appetite for leadership positions should not be confused with the lack of



confidence to lead. Tambo persuaded his peers with ease and great sophistication.



The President stressed what Tata Oliver Tambo would have wished for the youth today to explore the many educational opportunities that the ANC fought for so valiantly, and use these to reach their full potential. Reminiscing that OR Tambo was a teacher himself, President Ramaphosa expressed the view that OR would have wanted hard working teachers to be acknowledged and appreciated. He would have also wanted today’s youth to be responsible, respectful and be of service to their communities.



Education is always fundamental and OR Tambo led by example, believing it was the necessary means to fight a racist apartheid regime. I thank you. [Apluase.]






(Member’s Statement)



Mr M N NXUMALO (IFP): House Chair, South African citizens continue to suffer the ravages of recklessness on the roads. The increasing number of road accident fatalities is of great concern to the IFP. Road carnage is reportedly literally on daily basis in this country.

Recently in KwaZulu-Natal five Jozini municipality officials were killed in the crash on the N2 near Mtubatuba. They were travelling in a minibus with seven other passengers when they collided with the sugarcane truck.



It is alleged that the truck driver neglected to observe an on coming traffic when he was joining the N2. He also alleged to have fled the scene after the collision. As the IFP we would like to express our deepest condolences for their family ultimately passing. This is but one accident that occurred just these past few weeks. This calls for the Department of Transport to come up with a different approach in addressing these as well as applying stricter measures in order to try and secure the safety of road users in our country, given especially that this is a Transport Month.



While of course the major role players in ensuring safe roads usage, the road users themselves specifically leading up to the festive season which is common cause that the road death toll rises around this time. It is however, the responsibility of the department that needs to lead the charge through strictly enforcing the rules on the roads. I thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr I M GROENEWALD (FF PLUS): Hon House Chair, South Africa is facing a tremendous life threatening process as dam levels are critically low. While water scarcity is threatening a livelihood of all South Africans, more than 40% of the country’s portable water is lost due to leakages. While the drought is ravaging South Africa, leaks and poor water infrastructure lead to tremendous loss of water and dysfunctional sewage plants result in a large amount of sewage flowing into the rivers and dams contaminating these scarce source.



This is due to a total collapse of local government; municipalities are failing to do their essential maintenance to curb this water loses and stop the pollution. The biggest failure of the ANC-led government is local government. Collapse of infrastructure, outstanding debt to Eskom and water boards, corruption, fraud and looting, lack of compliance with laws and regulation, no consequence management and a complete lack self delivery.



The ANC-led government has destroyed the local government. Poor local government leads to the lack of business investors’ confidence, less tourism and lack of job opportunities. The people of South Africa are suffering and the future of the country is being fated. Municipalities and the provincial administration are not showing any improvement. Examples are the Mafube Local Municipality where community members are forced to provide essential services themselves although rate taxes are being paid.



The Auditor-General has identified the lack of political will and effective consequence to the major cause of poor



local government audit outcomes. The solution is to become stricter with consequent driven governance; not all the municipalities but rather smaller and more community development in municipalities. With smaller municipalities, better management and the will to affect the necessary changes rode our economy and the healthy environment. The effects of natural disasters such as droughts can be mitigated. Thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Ms S T XEGO (ANC): Hon House Chair, the ANC condemns in the strongest possible terms the assault of the multiple award-winning actress and musician Abigail Khubeka, allegedly by a Soweto taxi driver. The driver of a minibus taxi allegedly hit the legendary in her face and mouth leaving her with visible black marks on the face, after their cars had bumped into each. It is believed Mrs Kubeka was attacked while trying to apologise to the taxi driver after the accident.



Mama Kubeka is known for her illustrious career that spanned decades. She moved between jazz singing and acting roles which earned her a Lifetime Achievement Award at the South African Film and Television Awards. The ANC strongly condemns all forms acts of violence against women. This incident happens while there is an outcry in the country of violence against women, often described as a “war on women”. The ANC calls upon on law enforcement agencies to act without fear or favour to bring the perpetrator to book. I thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr J J MCGLUWA (DA): The ANC is split more and more every day. [Interjections.] ANC Secretary General Ace Magashule has a plan that will rip them further apart. He is apparently hard at work on a strategy to pull the Zondo Commission of Investigation into state capture back by high jacking the process. The road he is following is a campaign to recall President Ramaphosa from middle next



year. [Interjections.] As a result, Deputy President David Mabuza will replace President Ramaphosa while Ace will become the Deputy President. [Interjections.] House Chairperson, the ace in the pack is hard at work, here in the NA amongst members for support to deal with Ramaphosa.





Bona o etsang, sheba ba dutse jwang!





Kyk hoe sit hulle daar!





This is apparently about a decision by the ANC on matters such as land reform and the National Reserve Bank of South Africa. Reports also say that Ace is recruiting support from premiers and executives from the provinces so that he can defeat Ramaphosa. Hon House Chair, there is a power struggle in the ANC, DA says that the Ace as a central figure.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr B H HOLOMISA (UDM): Hon Chair, it has come to the attention of the UDM that a lot of consumers have been victims to fraudulent misrepresentations done by car dealers in vehicle sales transactions. Consumers have been short-changed whereby they are invoiced for a price of a new car and end up paying such an amount whilst they receive a second hand car. A lot of our people have been victim to this and they are at the mercy of these so- called credit providers, especially banks.



I have personally received numerous complaints in relation to this matter and have made attempts to engage these credit providers who are alleged to be part of this scheme. This has not yet yielded positive results. The UDM would like to call upon Parliament through the Portfolio Committee on Finance to heed this call and attend to these serious complaints by perhaps inviting the victims and alleged perpetrators to come and answer questions in relation to this matter.



They should also look into whether there has been any contravention of the laws of the country that protect consumers, such as the Consumer Protection Act or the National Credit Act. Thank you.






(Member’s Statement)





Mnu T D KHALIPA (ANC): Sifuna ukwamkela isigwebo seNkundla yamaTyala yabaSebenzi ngomhla wesi-8 kuOktobha 2019 apho umbutho weSolidarity ubufuna ukuba umthetho wokulingana kweli lizwe lethu uchithwe kwaye ubonakale ungetho mthethweni. Sifuna ukuyamkela le nto singumbutho wesizwe sisithi, le mibutho ifana neeSolidarity iza kuqhubeka ikuxhasa ukuxhamla kwabamhlophe kweli lizwe lethu. Sifuna ukuthi singulo mbutho, aba bantu abanakuze bayeke ukulwela igcuntswana labantu abamhlophe kwilizwe lethu. Abasebenzi mabamanyane bayazi ukuba le mibutho isekwe ukuze ilwele igcuntswana labantu abammhlophe.



Siyacela kananjalo kubo bonke abasebenzi belizwe lethu ukuba bazimanye nombutho wesizwe ugalel’ebhayini kuba nguwo wodwa umbutho ozakusebenzela abantu bethu, hayi le ijongene nemibutho emincinci kweli lizwe lethu. Sithi kubantu bethu, mabamanyane baxhase urhulumente wabo.

Isizathu sokuba nalo mbutho ulahlekelwe yinkokheli yawo kukuba uxhasa umdla wabucala(private interest).







(Member’s Staement)



Mr Z J PETER (ANC): Hon Chair, the mental health hospital recently opened by the ANC government in Kimberley, Northern Cape will relieve pressure on West End Hospital. The psychiatric services in Northern Cape were highly fragmented and were provided at the facility in Bloemfontein and Cape Town. This hospital will bring together mental health services in the province and will offer treatment including child and adolescent mental health services, forensic mental health services and general adult psychiatric services.



Kimberley’s West End Hospital was opened in 1991 to provide acute, chronic and outpatient psychiatric services. Although this was a major step, it has since fallen short of the norms and standards set out in the new Mental Health Act and its legislative reforms. The new hospital is already open and 160 patients have been transferred from West End Hospital. It has a capacity of

287 beds, and will be operationalised in phases. Lastly, the ANC commends our government for responding to the concerns of the Northern Cape people. Eleven more hospitals have also been identified for refurbishment. Thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr J W W JULIUS (DA): Hon House Chair, this past Sunday whilst delivering the key note address at the Oliver Tambo Commemoration, in his capacity as ANC leader, President Ramaphosa made some hair-raising revelations that the member over there refuses to mention. His instruction was that, the ANC should no longer be



prepared to defend the indefensible, no longer. This implies that the ANC used to and are still defending the indefensible. That is what we saw today, that is why the Ace is still in Luthuli House, hon Mc Gluwa.



He also said that the ANC can no longer close ranks but hold his public representative accountable [Interjections.] No longer, implies that you are still closing ranks and we have seen it today. Talk is cheap Mr President, they are all still in government, some serving at the behest of the President. You appointed them. Land claims fraudsters, VBS looters, Gupta aiders, the list goes on.



Lately even a Tiger that paid off journalists to keep his scandals under wrap, they are all sitting and today we saw how they are closing wraps. It is time for the President to stop boiling this frog; we need action, real action. South Africans are tired of these looters that are still in government whilst they belong in jail. [Applause.]






(Member’s Statement)



Mrs D B NGWENYA (EFF): Hon House Chair, the unemployment statistics released today by Statistics SA indicate that the levels of unemployment in this country have risen to just over 29% and that is only for the narrow definition of unemployment. Using the expanded definition of unemployment, four in 10 South Africans are unemployed. This is the highest rate of unemployment since 2008 and affects mostly those at the prime of their lives.



The highest percentage of unemployed is found at those between the ages of 25 and 34, young people who should be contributing their youth to the development of this country. This is a national crisis, deserving a swift and radical intervention. It requires a complete rethinking of the very nature and structure of our economy.

Obviously, what we have been doing over the past two decades has not been working.



The economy is still in the hands of a few who are holding the money and not investing it back to the country. They do this because the ANC has been sitting on



the fence not knowing whether they are for the poor and the marginalised or for the rich apartheid beneficiaries who hold the bulk of the wealth. We need to get our manufacturing to work again and for that to happen, we must protect our own infant industries, nurture them to develop and create jobs here.



This will not happen without a capable strong state which we do not have at the moment. I so move.







(Member’s Statement)



Ms M M GOMBA (ANC): Hon House Chair, South Africa’s relationship with China is one of a promise and opportunity for both nations. In the last course of the last decade, trade relations have rapidly expanded, with China now our largest trading partner. The South Africa- China Bi-National Commission scheduled to take place from

31 October to 3 November 2019 will help to further strengthen these relations. The working visit by the Deputy President of South Africa and a delegation he is



leading takes place in the context of strengthening South Africa’s cooperation and consolidating the already existing bilateral relations between South Africa and China.



Our agenda of building mutually beneficial relations remains a fundamental pillar of South Africa’s foreign policy. China is a central partner and a fraternal friend that continues to support the development agenda of our country and continent. Our relations with China have achieved a leapfrog development from a partnership to a strategic partnership and then to a comprehensive strategic ... [Time expired.] Thank you very much.







(Member’s Statement)



Mr H G APRIL (ANC): The ANC prides itself of 107 years of struggle for liberation including 25 years of building democracy and leading a just rally for a nonracial, nonsexist, united, democratic and prosperous South Africa. This year we celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the



Morogoro Consultative Conference held in 1969. This watershed conference adopted the first ANC strategy and tactics document which called for unity of all South Africans and the world to defeat racial, gender and class domination.



We note the DA’s house of cards that came down tumbling this past week with the resignations of various party leaders including Muusi Maimane and even Mashaba and the return of godzilla... sorry of the former leadership that they have. This manifestation of inherent contradictions in the DA’s conservative liberalism and right wing policies of believing that racism can be reformed and not destroyed. Those who continue to believe in this type of policies will be sadly disappointed, come 2021, uzobona [you will see.] We also note and welcome all of those members of the DA who realised that it is no use being in [Inaudible.] party.









(Minister’s Response)










... siyavumelana nesigwebo senkundla sokuba abo babexhamla bezisu zibomvana kurhulumente wocalucalulo wamadlagusha, ixesha labo liphelile ngoku. Apha kwakhiwa isizwe somntu wonke kwaye uMgaqo-siseko uyayicacisa ukuba iNkqubo yokuNikezela amaThuba kwabo babeHlelelekile ayiyindawo.





We will not protect apartheid inherited privileges.





Iyinyaniso emsulwa into yokuba...





... we are facing a serious problem of unemployment but as we reorganise the department in line with the new mandate we are building on the existing policies and work



closely with other departments, youth sectors, learning institutions, the non-governmental organizations, international committee and the private sector in the efforts to try and improve the education and training opportunities to close the skills gap and of course facilitate that transition which is between those leaving school and the first employment.



We are working with the work seekers and giving them a number of opportunities and try to link them. Whilst we might protect some of our industries – what we call narrow nationalist protectitionism can also be very dangerous when we are talking about an open economy whilst we have to protect those industries. We need therefore a balancing act. Thank you.









(Minister’s Response)



The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Hon House Chair, I think it would assist hon Mcgluwa to take his energy to Knysna that has just been taken away today from his party by the ANC. We have a mayor of the ANC as we speak today, taken away from the DA because of the fights that exist within. [Applause.] You must also remember that in the Tshwane Metropolitan Municipality you mishandled public funds and changed mayors every week that today there is no service delivery in Tshwane Metropolitan Municipality.



In the City of Johannesburg Metropolitan Municipality you are also about to change the mayor because he did exactly what you did and focused that he is not going to listen to you. He has left his legacy. He is leaving Johannesburg with the streets that are filthy, never before that in Johannesburg especially around your township that you have seen it in that way. [Interjections.]



The slogan of DA that it delivers is that it actually delivers to the few and the majority of the people in Gauteng and everywhere else they have seen this and now they know what the real DA stands for. They know that it



stands for a privileged few, white minorities against the majority of the black South Africans. That is why today you are finding no space – actually that is what Maimane has said as the former leader that it is not a party for a majority of South Africans. I hope many South Africans have listened to that.



Let me come to the issue of the relations between China and South Africa. I think this is a relation that continues to be critical for us as a country especially as a Minister of Tourism. I was in China last week where we were cementing more on the relations and ensuring that we receive more tourists. China has already committed to ensuring that our friendship and relationship starting from people to people to increasing the tourist attraction and it remains a critical market for South Africa. It will contribute to economic development and job creations. Thank you very much House Chairperson. [Applause.]



The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon House Chair, as we follow our Minister of Tourism, again we also agree with her that the relaxation of visas to our country will



indeed boost our tourism market. We want to agree with the ANC Member of Parliament that between myself and Minister of Communication and Digital Services known by the name Stella-rated Ndabeni. We are prepared to do justice to the community radio stations and we instructed and directed Santec, Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa and also Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA to look and see the blockages that needed to be unblocked so that our community radio stations can be on air and remain on air.



They will come back to us and report as to where our interventions are needed. Thank you very House Chair. [Applause.]







(Minister’s Response)



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon House Chair, I want to confirm the hon member of the ANC’s assertion that as the ANC government we are making a lot of progress in improving the provision of mental health services in the



country. The province of the Northern Cape is leading in this activation of the modern state of the arts psychiatric hospital and we will be supporting them as the national government to make sure that this is a success.



I want to add that it is not only in the Northern Cape where we are focusing but expanding mental health services in other parts of the country as well in terms of improving mental health facilities which in many areas have been neglected while we were focusing on the epidemics of HIV/AIDS and TB. We are now paying a lot of attention to non-communicable diseases and mental health is also receiving a lot of attention.



We are also making sure that there is provision and retraining of mental health professionals such as psychiatrists. Primary health facilities must also have psychiatric services including adding more nurses trained in the field of mental health.



We are taking mental health to the community and making sure that more and more of our people are more conscious



of the threat of mental health ailments. Thank you very much.






(Minister’s Responses)





ANC has existed 107 years and in those years, it has never imploded on the basis of race. It is unfortunate and regrettable that hon Mc Gluwa seems to be celebrating what is going on within the DA. And I must say that in the ANC, we are not gloating or celebrating what is going on the DA because it marks the triumph of racism, oppression and so on. [Interjections.]



I think it is unfortunate that there are members who are celebrating what is going on within the DA. And I think it is also unfortunate to sell out your leader who led you during those difficult moments. [Interjections.] And I think it is unfortunate that you want to grandstand. [Interjections.]



I must also add that Panyaza has been an activist against racism throughout his youthful life and he continues to represent the kind of the objective of a South Africa we want. Therefore, we must not use sport such as rugby order to embrace racism. He continues to embrace and express the views which are shared by the majority of South Africans as you go towards the world cup this weekend. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Order!





cannot celebrate what is going on within the DA because it represents racism. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. Did I miss somebody? Hon Skwatsha? Did I miss someone? [Interjections.] I have a slot, any takers? Thank you. That concludes the Minster’s Responses.



Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, on a point of order, our member made a members statement that’s relevant to the Deputy Minister of Higher Education, Science and



Technology and he is just sitting there tweeting and doing all sorts of irrelevant ... [Inaudible.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member thank you very much. That is not a point of order. [Interjections.]



Mr M N PAULSEN: ... but he has not responded. But why is he not responding? What is Buti doing here? Is Buti just coming here to sit? [Interjections.] Is Buti just coming here to sit and do nothing? [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Take your seat. Thank you. That concludes Minister’s responses. We now go to notices of motion.







Ms P P XABA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates strengthening inter- governmental relations and co-operative governance.



I thank you.



Mr K J MILEHAM: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That the House debates the Integrated Resource Plan; its impact on the economy and the ANC government’s failure to address the electricity crisis in South Africa.



I thank you.



Mr M N PAULSEN: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:



That the House debates the process by which land from which black people were evicted under Apartheid Group



Areas Act, can removed from SANPARKS list of protected areas.



I so move.



Ms M M NTULI: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates the central focus of the Parliament to plan, implement, enforce, monitor and achieve the objectives of a developmental state.



I so move.



Mr M N NXUMALO: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:



That the House debates the issue of the rising fatality tolls on South African roads.



I so move.





Dr W J BOSHOFF: Voorsitter, ek versoek hiermee dat, met die volgende sitting van die Huis, die Huis debateer dat onderwys ’n primêre funksie van die gemeenskap is, waar die staat slegs bystand in die vorm van salarisse, fasiliteite en minimum standaarde behoort te lewer, maar nie soos toenemend die geval is onderwys gebruik om die ideologie wat die staat verkies, op gemeenskappe af te dwing nie. Ek stel so voor.



Mr T MGWEBA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates the strengthening consequence management with regards to effective, speedy and consistent disciplinary mechanisms within departments.



I thank you.



Mr S N SWART: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:



That the House debates the Eskom Special Paper aimed at restructuring the entity as released today by the Minister of Public Enterprises, Mr Pravin Gordhan.



I thank you.



Mr J J MCGLUWA House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That the House debates the state of Home Affairs on all aspects in its current form.



I so move.




Mr M N PAULSEN: House Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the EFF and move without notice that on the next sitting:



The House debates the use of Public Works and Infrastructure dormant facilities on harbours to be used in job creation initiatives to reduce unemployment in coastal fishing communities.



Thank you.



Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: With all due respect, the hon Paulsen has now passed a move without notice. He is supposed to give notice. He is not supposed to move without notice. He is wrong.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon Mulder.



Ms T MGWEBA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates the establishment of fully resourced development directorate at various spheres of government.



I so move.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:



That the House deliberates and resolves on the immediate unconditional downgrading of the South African embassy in Israel to a liaison office until Israel respects international law, respects the rights of Palestinian people to exist and comply with all international resolutions and agreements.



I so move.



Ms K D MAHLATSI: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates the impact of climate change on the potential to reduce food production and the availability of portable water which will require far reaching changes to the way people live and work.



I so move.



Mr M P A TSEKI: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates assessing the legislatures impact on public engagement beyond civil society organisations to the most remote areas of our country.



Thank you.



Ms C V KING: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That the House debates how the general education certificate will stimulate skills development in South Africa for the future world of work.



I so move.



Mr W T LETSIE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates sharpening South Africa’s innovation edge to contribute to global scientific and



technological advancement by ensuring greater investment in research and development.



Thank you.



Debate Concluded.



The House adjourned at 16:58.




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