Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 02 Sep 2015


No summary available.








The House met at 15:03.


The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.







Cluster 4




Details of progress made in protecting marine resources and developing alternative avenues for affected fishing communities

421.        Mr Z M D Mandela (ANC) asked the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:


  1. With regard to the bleak spectra of survival faced by fishing communities (details furnished), what progress has been made in respect of (a) protecting marine resources and developing viable alternatives to affected communities in alternative avenues such as aqua and marine culture and (b) facilitating access and transforming ownership of the agro-processing industries and identifying alternative related and unrelated sectors;


  1. what policy and strategic plans have been developed for the economic development of alternative industries or economic activities that can address endemic poverty, inequality and unemployment in such communities;


(3)        what monitoring and evaluation mechanisms have been put in place to ensure compliance and measurement of performance in order to deliver an alternative economic regime for affected communities?               NO3758E


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Deputy Speaker, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, DAFF, is the lead agent for the implementation of the Operation Phakisa aquaculture work stream. The goal is to grow aquaculture to play a major role in the supply of fish products and an enhanced role in job creation and the contribution to national income. The sector also offers significant potential for rural development, especially for marginalised communities.


The vision of the aquaculture sector is one of the major objectives of Operation Phakisa. The mission of the guiding criteria for selection of catalyst projects is that all catalyst projects will agree to strive towards the targets set forward in the AgriBEE Charter.


There are a number of policies and strategies that have been developed to address these issues. The National Aquaculture Strategic Framework, NASF, developed by DAFF aims to guide the much needed government interventions and support measures, which facilitate the removal of constraints and create an enabling environment for aquaculture sector growth.


The NASF led to the development of the National Aquaculture Policy Framework. This policy will therefore be one of the key pillars in achieving the objectives of the National Development Plan. We do this because pouching has led to a situation where our protein-rich fish species had been depleted and we are guided to ensure therefore that aquaculture becomes an answer to some of the problems that we are faced with.


Operation Phakisa, our governance model, has been created to ensure that projects are supported in every way, in line with agreed plans. We have a number of these projects, as I referred to. So, that is the answer to this first question.


Mr ZMD MANDELA: Deputy Speaker, with respect to developing viable alternatives for destitute fishing communities, four special aquaculture development zones, ADZs, were identified in the Eastern Cape, as a result of a strategic environmental assessment of the entire South African coastline. Furthermore, the DAFF Marine Aquaculture Policy makes provision for the realization of the aims of promoting industry growth, skills-based job creation and increased seafood production to compensate for the dwindling catches of wild stock. Therefore, what progress has been made in the establishment of these special aquaculture development zones, what are the target species, what volumes are envisaged over the short, medium and long term, what financial investment is required and what community participation model is envisaged or is being implemented? Thank you.


THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Deputy Speaker, yes, of course, under Operation Phakisa, we have identified aquaculture as one of the areas with which we can make sure that fishing is improved. That involves fishing in open waters like in dams. We can, in the Eastern Cape, speak of the ADZ in East London, which has been funded together with the industrial development zone, IDC. It is a venture, I believe, that will be able to absorb and also allow the surrounding areas to participate in that area.


There are a number of aquaculture projects in the Eastern Cape. There are 12 of them in the country. The objective is to ensure that those fish species that have been depleted - there were a number of them - due to climate changes are revitalised. We are working on a programme to make sure that we plan accordingly and come up with a physical budget.


I believe that as a department, we are ready and we are working with the Department of Environmental Affairs and other departments. IDC meetings recently have proven that that funding will not be much of a problem, provided that training is being done. We are training communities to make sure that we have the necessary skills within the aquaculture sector as well as the fishing industry.


MS Z JONGBLOED: Deputy Speaker, I have pressed ...


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What have you pressed?


Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, we just want to know if your gadget is working, because members are pressing. At the back, hon ...


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: She has just unlocked it.


Mr N SINGH: Okay, as long as your gadget is working. Thank you. [Laughter.]


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You will be in order, hon Singh.


Ms Z JONGBLOED: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, when I look at the question posed by the hon Mandela, it looks to me like an admission of guilt from the ANC that the processes that the government has in place to protect our marine resources and fishing communities have failed. Furthermore, your sleeky plan to introduce the national demographic model and thus racial quotas when awarding fishing quotas to traditional fishers is a recipe for disaster and is sure to lead to serious political strife and community unrest.


We don’t want to hear about an alternative. Your job is not to create alternatives; your job is to tell us here and now what you are doing to protect and address the endemic poverty in our coastal fishing villages and ensure that fishing rights are secured. [Applause.]


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Jongbloed, ... [Interjections.] Jongbloed, nie “Youngblood” nie. Ek was saam met julle in vergaderings, ek weet wie sy is. [I was with you in meetings, I know who she is.]


You are aware of the fact that in the department, as we speak, we are busy dealing with the issue of clearing the desk regarding the appeals that are in the department. The aim therefore is to ensure that, when the time for allocation of rights comes next year, we are not just ready but we can make sure that there is transparency and that everybody will benefit.


Anybody will agree with me that poaching is not the only contributing factor to shortages of fish species. You speak of the wild coast rock lobster and there have been many washouts of that fish species. It is due to changes in the climate that forces us to do certain things. So, I would believe that you are more political than I am, if you want me to believe that the only reason we are doing these things is because we want to change issues.


We have reported to the committee on the work we are doing on Operation Phakisa. We believe that if we want to ensure that all our people benefit, aquaculture is one of the answers that can be utilized, not because of any political conviction, but because it is a reality. Only a person with your political ideology will not agree with me that we have challenges.


Even in the Western Cape, by the way, poaching is very rife. It is not something that only the ANC must deal with. We need communities. We need everybody, so that we can deal with it. We will empower local communities and work with them, so that they can also benefit in the process, going forward.


Mr N PAULSEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, Minister, currently South Africa has 147 fishing communities, 28 338 are fishing households and about 29 233 are considered true subsistence fishers. The bulk of the fishing industry however, is owned by white monopoly capital like Sea Harvest, Oceana, I & J. What are you doing to ensure that those fishing communities that have to poach to survive are able to participate in the entire value chain of the marine economy?


THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Paulsen, I don’t think you can ever justify poaching on the basis of poverty. My understanding of poaching is that people exchange fish for drugs, not only because of poverty.


Let me go to your question. I agree with you that we need to transform the fishing industry. That is the reason why we have to ensure that we clear all the appeals that we found in the department first, so that when we give fishing rights as from February next year, we have a programme, we have people to ensure that the rights are given to people, but we transform the industry to the ... [Inaudible.]... of our country.


On that, I agree with you, but I will not justify poaching because people are hungry. It is not only those who poach. Some are involved in elicit business and they need your support. I need your participation to stop it not by justifying it.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, before I give to you hon member, members, I am ask to inform you to join me in welcoming officials from the Namibian Parliament, who are visiting us, sitting out there in the gallery, welcome. [Applause.]


Mr N CEBEKHULU: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the poaching of perlemoen from our marine protected areas remains a matter of grave concern. Are the authorities making an impact in terms of poacher arrest? Are we ensuring that those caught in possession of perlemoen are receiving heaviest sentences and fines? Are these adequate? Are the special courts that were introduced to deal with poaching still in operation and functioning well? In respect of subsistence fishing licenses to small fishermen, are these licenses being made easily available to those who need them most in order to put food on the table? I thank you.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Deputy Speaker, on the first question of poaching, our concern is as much as yours because we believe that through poaching, especially on perlemoen, we are depriving our economy of that very special spice. We are doing all our best to make sure that through participation of communities, we are able to isolate those who do poaching in our oceans. Moreover, to work with other state urgencies to ensure that we don’t only arrest, but we prevent and have means at our disposal.


One of Operation Phakisa’s objectives therefore is to ensure that we protect our ocean. Working with relevant departments, I can assure you that through the processes we are involved in, we have already advertised a policy dealing with small fishermen. The aim is to make it more easier, not only to acquire a license, but to stop this onerous situation where you must apply for your license, you should apply for transportation, you should apply for a fishing rights, we want you to apply once, so that you can access your fishing rights. But without protecting our oceans, I think that our fight will be defeated. We call upon each and every South African to ensure that they join us in the fight against poaching.


Particulars regarding the effects and control of illegal mining activities in disused mines


424.        Mr Z M D Mandela (ANC) asked the Minister of Mineral Resources:


  1. What progress has been made in respect of illegal mining and/or illegal mining activities in disused or abandoned mines and mining shafts;


  1. (a) has the available legislative regime addressed the post-lifecycle viability of mining towns and (b) what policy, programme and plans have been set afoot to address the long-term survival and sustainability of such mining towns and mining areas;


  1. what measures have been implemented to ensure that disused or abandoned mines are better policed so as to avoid fatalities, critical injuries and/or accidents from occurring on such sites;


  1. what (a) is the total number of fatalities and critical injuries or accidents that  have occurred on such abandoned mines, mineshafts and derelict sites since 2012 and (b) trends are indicated by the statistics in respect of such injuries and fatalities sustained;


(5)      is there a need for (a) tightening the legislative regime in respect of such sites and (b) holding former owners culpable in their failure to adequately secure such sites?                                                                             NO3761E


The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Deputy Speaker, there is a three-pronged approach to dealing with illegal mining, namely, promotion of mining, rehabilitation and sealing of holes, policing as well as enforcement. Progress in this regard is as follows: With regard to promotion of mining, the department continues to promote legitimate mining and removal of exposed minerals at sites which are viable to mine. For instance, the department issued a mining permit to conduct mining operations in the East Rand, where illegal mining activities were taking place and mining operations have commenced in that area. Also, the outcrop and sub-outcrop were mined successfully in that particular area and that had high illegal mining activities in Riverlea outside the Roodepoort area.


With regard to rehabilitation, the department in collaboration with the respective mining companies and the Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality led to the successful rehabilitation of Blesbokspruit. As a result of the above collaboration no illegal mining are taking place in that area.


The department in partnership with the relevant stakeholders ensured that the Durban Roodepoort Deep Dam is rehabilitated while rehabilitation work is currently taking place at Goudrand in the Western Rand. The department through the Council for Geoscience closed and sealed 143 open shafts or open holes that have been identified. The mining companies have also closed 50 open shafts or open holes, which have been identified.


With regard to policing, the law enforcement agencies continued with the disruptive operations and also made significant inroads to unearth crime syndicates, especially kingpins who benefit out of the proceeds of illicit activities. Some of the major arrests made include the following: Over 200 tons of gold concentrate worth millions of rands was recently uncovered by the police inside a granite factory in Potchefstroom in the North West. Two known suspects are believed to be behind this illicit trade and the police are pursuing them. Two suspects were arrested in Kempton Park for being in possession of undisclosed amount of illicit mined gold and about 3 000 fraudulent identity documents. The suspects are believed to be part of the illegal mining syndicate that has fabricated over 16 000 fraudulent invoices worth about R437 million to reflect purchases of second hand gold jewellery. [Time expired.]


Mr Z M D MANDELA: Deputy Speaker, illegal mining has many ramifications including issues of safety, legal compliance, environmental degradation and loss of sustainable economic opportunity for local communities. The wild coast in KwaZulu-Natal and in the Eastern Cape has for the past decade being facing an impending disaster, with special reference to the distraction of coastal dunes in Xolobeni Titaniun Mine due to illegal sand mining. The practice however, continues unabated resulting in destruction of available pristine resource that holds greater benefit for local communities for Ecotourism and related activities. How is these specifically being addressed and what is being done to enhance community awareness and ensure community involvement in protecting this valued resource?


The MINISTER OF THE MINISTER OF MINERAL AND RESOURCES: Hon Deputy Speaker, we are mobilizing communities around the areas where mines are located, particularly at those that are vulnerable to illegal mining. We do that in collaboration with the police and other law enforcement agencies. There are situations which can be difficult when you find that there are armed people who come with weapons and therefore, drive fear in the hearts of the communities or the community sometimes turns not to be that proactive. However, the response is that we must be seen to be as a government that is on top of that situation, so that the communities can be embolden to participate in the policing activities.


Mr J R B LORIMER: Deputy Speaker, Minister I am sorry we didn’t get to hear you answer much of that question. There was some interesting staff in there, particularly with regard to whether or not we should be holding former mine owners capable and their failure to adequately secure former mines sites against illegal mining? Now, we caution against that because holding companies responsible after they have closure certificate will be just another chapter in the ANC’s delusional story of trying to attract investment. It will not work. This government needs to realise something about mining. No investment equals no jobs. The state does not have the money to invest therefore, it has to be the private sector that should make into an attractive proposition. Now, with regard to the last part of the question about new legislation to secure old mining sites, are we going to see that legislation, if so, where will it be written and when will we see it before this Parliament?


The MINISTER OF MINERAL AND RESOURCES: We are looking at possibilities of ensuring that illegal mining is characterised as an economic crime. At the moment, what happens is, we arrest people and that we charge them under trespassing. Currently, you have the Mineral Resources Act before Parliament, and therefore we could insect elements such as those into these amendments that are coming. Thank you.


Mr M M DLAMINI: Deputy Speaker ... Oh, Minister is there. You know Minister ...


La engazalelwa khona eMzimkhulu [In, uMzimkhulu, my place of birth]


... there is one thing that you don’t do. We don’t celebrate amavaka (cowards) and we despise cowards, men who are scared of another men. Now, these imaginational mining companies, all of them, BHP Billiton, Glencore, Lonmin, all of them, they are not complying with the Mining Charter in terms of their procurement, equity, social and labour plans. As a result, all of them, they are in bridge of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, MPRDA.


Uma bekungamatekisi, Ngqongqoshe, ngabe sithi amawundela zonke lezinkampani zezimayini ... [Hon Minister, if these were taxis I would say all these mines are not roadworthy ...]


... because they are continuing to mine and they are now breaking the law. Now, the question to you is: When are you going to issue an instruction and stop those operations because these mining companies – they just continue to do as they please in this country? Thank you.


The MINISTER OF MINERAL AND RESOURCES: Well, we operate under the law of the land. I can tell you that since we have gone through the Charter Review, notices have gone out more than 300 companies in this country to order them to comply and only when they don’t comply, we escalate to the next step. So, as we speak, the notices are there and I can assure you even the big ones have received the notices of non-compliance. That’s why we have a case in court as we speak by the way.


Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, illegal mining operation threatened the livelihood of legal operation, compromising the safety, not only of the illegal miner, but also the environment and the surrounding communities. Having said all that, and seeing the massive negative impact on the country as a whole, why is it then that the Prosecuting Authority does not regard this offence as being serious enough to warrant proper prosecution? You answer the bit of my question, hon Minister on the previous question, but why are legal miners only given warning or released on bail wherever they are, they immediately return to illegal mining operations? Given the seriousness of this matter, what into action are taking place between you, hon Minister and the Minister of Police and Justice and Constitutional Development in order to affect that we stop this illegal mining? Thank you.


The MINISTER OF MINERAL AND RESOURCES: There have been instances where we found that elements within the security forces have been collaborating with illegal activities and when such happens and is detected, we are very happy to say the police have been seen to act very firmly and decisively. So, dialogue between my department and my colleagues you have referred to will continue on an ongoing basis. Thank you.


Economic prospects in light of the nine point plan to ignite growth and create jobs


398.        Mr D J Maynier (DA) asked the Minister of Finance:


Whether, with reference to the statement by the President on the implementation of the State of the Nation Address and the nine point plan to ignite growth and create jobs (details furnished) on 11 August 2015, he has similarly found that it is not all doom and gloom in South Africa; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details?                                                                                  NO3734E


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, hon members, there is indeed no doubt that South Africa faces significant constraints to faster economic growth. The second quarter growth number came in at a disappointing minus 1,3%. This highlights insufficient electricity supply and, as a result of that, low private investment as well as high unemployment. These factors continue to hamper growth. Falling commodity prices, slowing growth in some of our trading partners, volatility in capital flows and the exchange rate, add further challenges.


Many of these challenges cannot be addressed overnight. The impacts of progress are likely only to be visible and felt over the medium to long term. However, government remains focused on implementing the 9-point plan announced by the President in this year’s state of the nation address.


I would like to mention just a few of those. Medupi Power Station’s additional 800 megawatts has raised electricity production and improved our electricity availability factor. Eskom also received the promised R23 billion to further facilitate their build programme.


We also continue to seek ways in which to engage the private sector to participate in meeting our investment challenge. The renewable energy Independent Power Producers, IPP, partnership between government and the private sector is one of the most successful partnerships.


The ports tariff structure is also being realigned and port infrastructure modernised. Transnet’s rail modernisation programme continues. Work also continues on the priority areas identified by Cabinet in January for the reform of state-owned companies.


Furthermore, cabinet approved the introduction of the Socio-economic Impact Assessments, SEIA, as of July. It is being piloted, reflecting government’s commitment to evidence-based policy-making and enhanced co-ordination and communication. Thirty-three departments have already been trained in applying the SEIAs  – an important investment to ensure that these efforts are carried out. Thank you.


Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, there is a great deal of confusion surrounding the nuclear build programme which is frankly terrifying South Africa. Now, President Zuma claimed in the statement referred to in the Question on 11 August 2015 that the nuclear build programme is at an advanced stage of planning and that the procurement is likely to be completed in this financial year. But then the Minister claimed a couple of days later that National Treasury had just been invited into the process. And then, just yesterday, the hon Minister of Energy claimed that the Minister was wrong. The National Treasury had in fact been involved from the beginning. So, I would like the Minister to tell us whether the National Treasury has done any work on the nuclear build programme, and if it had done some work, what work has it done and when did that work begin? And, most importantly of all, whether that work will be made public and tabled in Parliament. Because, in the end, - with respect and there is no other way to put this – the public want to know what the hell is going on. [Interjections.]


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, let me start by saying indeed, there is no confusion except with the hon member himself. [Interjections.] Let us now help the hon member because ... you know, as a new member of the Finance committee, I am sure there is still a lot of work that remains to be done to empower him. [Interjections.]


An HON MEMBER: Like you and your Minister! [Interjections.]


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: And it is going to take a bit of time. But, let us start by indicating that we, as a country, have a very open, transparent budgeting process. We do not stand here and start budgeting here. You will do your work in the committee when this work comes before the committee. You will also receive the details of the entire process when procurement is taken ... procurement is not done in the committee. Procurement is not done in the manner that you want us to do it.


As we speak ... and you know that the Department of Energy first went on a process of engaging the vendors, the suppliers and anybody else that is interested. All that process has nothing to do with the National Treasury. The National Treasury has a role to play in this space, and their role is now to begin to look at the financing model and that is what we are engaged with. We wouldn’t have started with that until the other processes had been concluded.


We therefore, can say with confidence here, that in order to address the energy challenges of this country, all other areas and sources of energy are part of the mix and this Parliament will engage with it as it always does with all our mega projects. [Applause.] [Interjections.]


Ms S J NKOMO: Deputy Speaker, to the hon Minister, in respect of the 9-point plan and the hon President’s commitment thereon to resolve the energy challenge and taking into account government’s likely pursuit of a nuclear strategy to solve South Africa’s energy demand, is the nuclear path an affordable one? Can we afford to embark on this path, and, if so, what assurances do we have that the budget won’t end up being double or triple the initial agreed upon price as we have seen with so many other government projects over the last few years? Thank you.


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, as the hon member knows, at the top of the 9-point plan is resolving the energy challenge. It is actually the first point. As we do that, one of the things we are doing is actually proper sequencing of how we address this energy challenge. It is for that reason that our focus on Eskom, our focus on IPPs, our focus on coal generation, our focus on all the areas that would deliver energy in the immediate and short run are being attended to.


The issue of the affordability of any of those plans is precisely what we are engaging with at the moment and that is what we are doing. We do not want to pre-empt that, because a lot of people who have spoken about non-affordability are people who themselves have not undertaken any study to be able to put that on the table. So, that is precisely what we are doing at the moment. Thank you.


Mr G MACKAY: Minister, you have yet to actually answer any of the Questions that have been posed to you in the House today, so I will try reframing. Yesterday, the Minister of Energy, Ms Tina Joemat-Pettersson, promised that an affordability study would be undertaken on the new nuclear build programme. She did however, go on to indicate that, irrespective of the findings of the study, government would continue with civil nuclear expansion. Minister, surely, you must be troubled by your Cabinet colleague’s comments. Can you confirm or deny her sentiments? And finally, can you promise the South African people that, should the affordability study find nuclear to be unaffordable – as we know it is – that the nuclear new build programme will be abandoned in its entirety? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Perhaps your attempts to rephrase your own Question means you had not structured it properly. Let me rephrase your supplementary as well. [Interjections.] Let me rephrase your supplementary as well because you always come from the negative angle. Why don’t you ask ... [Interjections.] should we find ... [Interjections.]


Mr I M OLLIS: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, what is your point of order?


Mr I M OLLIS: Cabinet Ministers are not permitted to change the Question; just to answer it.


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: I have not changed it yet.


Mr I M OLLIS: You just said you were.


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: I am going to try ... [Interjection.]


Mr I M OLLIS: Are you addressing me or the Deputy Speaker?


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why are you addressing him? Take your seat, hon member.

Mr I M OLLIS: He is addressing me, that’s why.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat that is fine. Proceed, Minister.


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Maybe you should have asked in the positive, but let me answer from the negative as well because he is ... [Interjections.] He tried ... [Interjections.] [Laughter.] I said in my response as ... now it has been ... the Question has now been reinstated.


In my response, I said that we do not want to pre-empt the outcome of the study that is being conducted. Because, if they are trying to pre-empt it in this room, I am not going to play in that space. The reason we are doing the study is precisely because we want to come to this House with something that has been processed, and that has been done in the proper way. [Applause.]


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, in that infamous press conference held by Mr Zuma on the 9-point plan, he said that the projections of economic growth would be 3% over the next three years. This was said against the fact that we currently have a trade deficit. Statistics SA has illustrated that the economy has contracted by 1,3% in the current quarter – the second quarter. Because of the contraction of the global economy all indications illustrate that there won’t be any growth. On the same day the President was announcing the 3% growth, the Reserve Bank governor was, in essence, revising the projections of 2% which they had made earlier because of a deeper crisis. Where do you get this 3%? Does it come from National Treasury, or did you just throw some dice and it said three and then you said okay, this is how the economy is going to grow?


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: We do not gamble with growth numbers. We put these numbers before this House when we tabled the Budget. Those are the numbers until such time that we revise them. Those are the numbers that obtain on the ground.


Of course, as I have indicated, conditions on the ground have changed. It is only when we have taken into account all those changes and all the other indicators that we will come back to his House in a month’s time to to give you an indication of what the new numbers look like. Because, indeed, we would also not want to thumb suck them. It is for that reason that we go through a particular process, the outcome of which will actually be part of our Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement.


Plans to ensure a sustainable solution to problems of food insecurity


407.        Mr N Paulsen (EFF) asked the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:


In view of the report on the National Policy on Food and Nutrition Security of August 2013 jointly sponsored by his department and the Department of Social Development reporting that 13,8 million persons have inadequate access to food (details furnished), (a) what long-term plans does he have in place to ensure that there is a sustainable solution to the problems of food and nutritional insecurity in the country and (b) has he found that the specified long-term plans will succeed without a  coherent programme of land tenure reform?                                                                             NO3744E


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Department of Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries in collaboration with the provincial departments of agriculture, Departments of Social Development, Basic Education, Health, Public Works, Panning, Monitoring and Evaluation, Co-operative Governance, Rural Development and Land Reform is in the process of finalising the food and nutrition security implementation plan and that plan is led by the Department of Agriculture, Forestry And Fisheries that is making sure that there is zero food insecurity by 2030.


The blue print plan addresses food and nutrition security broadly as follows: Increasing production of staple commodity such as maize, beans and potatoes through fetsa tlala as one of its pillars fully co-ordinated by Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. This includes food security programmes funded by through Ilima/letsema conditional grant to encourage food gardens as well as other mechanisms that ensure that food production happens.


This intervention aims to increase production of food so as to cushion the impact of food prices. Through local food production, food will be affordable to the indigent. The department further provides assistance to farmers during disasters by providing disaster assistance in order to build resilience of small holders.


The strengthening of the social security system is another pillar and is co-ordinated by the Department of Social Development. Food and nutrition security is addressed through social grants, community nutrition development centres, social relief of distress and drop-in centres. The Department of Basic Education is a critical partner that contributes to food and nutrition security through the National School Nutrition Programme. The department is not the sole custodian of these programmes but facilitates; co-ordinates and reports on those programmes under the Outcome 7. The implementation of the plan will be in collaboration with other departments as I have mentioned above. Thank you.


Mr N M PAULSEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, Minister you just once again highlighted that it is poor communities that suffer from food insecurity. Studies by various institutions have shown that food security programmes by government will continue to suffer if it is not linked to the resolutions of land struggles that poor communities are faced with. So, again Minister, is it possible to ensure sustainable food security for the rural poor without tackling the land inequalities in this country as well or even first?


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: There is partly truth in what you are saying. In truth we have to fast-track land reform, I agree with you on that one. But as we speak in this House, there is a big chunk of land that lies unused in rural communities and that land should be utilised. On 06 August, we met with almost all the kings and chiefs under whose jurisdiction rural land lies under.


I disagree with those who said that we should make sure that land is transferred to individuals as a consequence of any other thing because our people will sell their land and loose out. What we need to do therefore, is to make sure that, together with the people, land transformation and the usage of land is fast-tracked.


So, in dealing with food security, we are dealing with a number of issues. We need to understand the climatic conditions and come up with new cultivars to mitigate the situation. Improve accessibility to funding and water licensing being made able. So, there is not only the answer that is enough, it needs a lot to be done and as a department I believe that we are above board, we are dealing with the issues that you are raising. With communities working together we believe that we can dent the scourge of unemployment and poverty provided all land available is used before the land that we are working very hard to ensure that land is transformed. That land should be used as well as to create a new culture of black farmers who must compete with their counterpart. Without access to markets you can produce as much as you may but without markets you will not succeed to do those things. So, there is a multitude of issues that we need to do to achieve our goals.


Mnu M L W FILTANE: Mphathiswa, into eyenzekayo apha kukuba mninzi umhlaba ophuncukayo kwiSebe lezoLimo, amaHlathi nezokuLoba uye kwiSebe lezeMigodi, kucutheke indawo le yokuhlala. Iindleko zokulima ziya zinyuka, boyisakale abantu ebebenokuvelisa ukutya. Inkqubo iFetsa Tlala, ngokwengxelo yotyelelo lokongamela yonyaka ophelileyo, ayiqhubi kakuhle apho ibikhe yalingwa khona KwaZulu-Natal, phofu nayo bekutshintshwe enye inkqubo. Ii-arhente ezincedisa kwimveliso yokutya ezifana nooNtinga kuMasipala wesiThili i-OR Tambo azisafumani hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. Uza kuncedisa njani ukulungisa le meko xa uphelelwa ngumhlaba nezi arhente zinganikwa hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali njalo njalo? Asikakuva kakuhle ukuba uthini na, kuyalanjwa.


UMPHATHISWA WESEBE LEZOLIMO, AMAHLATHI NEZOKULOBA: Mandivumelane nawe lungu elihloniphekileyo kwaye uchaza inyaniso. Kodwa ngelishwa ke inyaniso yepolitiki inamajengxeba. Ndiyasiqonda ke isizathu sokuba uyibeke ngolo hlobo. Ewe, kuyinyaniso ukuba ikhona imingeni, kodwa asikwazi ukuba sisombulule iingxaki zokungaphumeleli kusekho le ngxaki yelanga likaQilo elihleli licikida lisitya umbona welizwe lethu. Awukwazi ukuthi ke ngoku siqhomfa kuba singasebenzi kakuhle singayijongi ingxaki yelanga ehlasele KwaZulu-Natal.


Ndihamba nawe kwaye ndiyavuma ukuba ayingorhulumente kuphela onokuhlamba asombulule le ngxaki. Kufuneka sisebenzisane neenkampani zabucala kwaye zikhona ezinomdla wokusebenza nathi, sikhulise izakhono, sivuselele iinkonzo ezongezelelweyo [extension services] ngoba ukuba ngaba azikho, ndikuxelela inene, ufana nomntu osezwa umhlonyane kodwa engazazi ukuba ugula yintoni na. Enkosi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)


[Mr M L W FILTANE: Hon Minister, what is happening is that there is a lot of land that is lost by the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries and fell to the Department of Mineral Resources, and places to stay get reduced.  Farming costs increase, people who can farm for food do not afford.  The Fetsa Tlala programme, according to the report on the oversight visit last year, doesn’t do well in KwaZulu-Natal where it was tried, it substituted another one.  Agents that help in food production like Ntinga in OR Tambo District Municipality is not allocated in the budget.  How will you help to rectify this issue if you have no land and when the agent does not receive an allocation in the budget and so forth? We do not know exactly what you are saying, there is hunger.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Let me agree with you hon member and you are telling the truth.  But the truth of politics is not perfect.  I know the reason why you put it that way.  Yes, it is true that there are challenges, but we cannot resolve the problem of failure while there is drought that affects mealies of our country. You can’t say we don’t give people food because we are not doing well while you do not consider the problem of the drought in KwaZulu-Natal.


I agree with you and I agree that it is not government only who can solve this problem. We must work together with private companies some of them are willing to do so, develop skills, do extension services because if we do not have them, it’s like you are given a cold and flu medicine while you do not know your sickness. Thank you.]


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon Minister it is common knowledge that in eThekwini Municipality, hundreds of fishermen rely on the fishing industry to feed their families. This has been going on for decades. Hon Minister there seems to be a challenge and a serious problem in that the eThekwini Municipality is preventing these fishermen by not allowing them to fish at the north pier and I have just been advised that...


Ms A STEYN: Hon Deputy Speaker on a point of order: I think the member is on the wrong question. We are on question 107 which is not on the fishing question at the moment. [Laughter.]


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Are we not on the 115 figure?


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What question are you addressing? Let us ask you hon member. It is 407.


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: I am addressing the one to the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries, please.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is it a supplementary question?


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: It is supplementary question.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, ask him a supplementary question.


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: It is a supplementary question to the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries.


Ms A STEYN: On a point of order Deputy Speaker, he is asking a supplementary question on 375 and we are on 407. It is the same Minister.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let us give him a chance. He will sort himself out, do not worry.


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon Deputy Speaker, the hon Minister has spoken about food security and creating jobs in the agriculture, forestry and fisheries industry and I am referring to that particular matter when I am addressing the hon Minister in terms of the challenges faced by those that fish in eThekwini region that are being deprived of an income as a result of the municipality preventing them from fishing on the pier. Thank you.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Thanks Deputy Speaker and thanks to the question. I agree with you about the problems faced by small fishermen. I happen to have been in eThekwini region and I agree with you that some of the issues are not issues due to inefficiencies, for example, the prawns in KwaZulu-Natal. It is informed by the fact that there is no flow in the St Lucia River which deprived them of the spawning processes of that fish species.

We are busy as a department, as you may know, with the new policy on small fisheries. We believe that through interaction with the communities we will improve accessibility to fishing areas. We will make sure that we come with models to assist them but in my view they cannot remain small forever. We need to make sure that as we issue new licences, we come up with models to make sure that they join the bigger league of people. I have seen Njomane agreeing with me on that score. Thank you very much.


Ms M R SEMENYA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC 2012 Policy Conference agreed that food security as a prior area will require strategic and integrated intervention to address access to and control over fiscal and social economic means to ensure sufficient, safe and nutritious food at all times in order to meet the dietary requirements for the healthy life.


The programme that emerges from the policy conference in response to food security is the fetsa Tlala integrated food production which aims to place 1 million hectares under production. Can the Minister provide an update on the progress with regard to the integrated food production programme in meeting its objectives? Thank you.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: The question is related to fetsa Tlala and other programmes that need to dent the scourge of poverty and unemployment. We have targeted the former homeland areas so that we are able to make sure that through this funding we are able to assist small-scale farmers. We are able to target and make sure that we do soil analysis so that we can understand the kind of crops that can be planted.


We also link our future production with the 44 sites identified by the rural development so that through food processing we can be able to improve the food value chain. We are convinced that with other policies that we are engaged on like the policies to mechanisation; access to input costs to ensure that we deal with the issue of the current situation where the production of fertilisers is in the hands of the few. This will make sure that people have access to seeds and other forms of agriculture.


We believe therefore that in coming to the ploughing season, we are better placed and amongst the things to do is to ensure that we revitalise the essence of extension services so that our people can be able to have access to those facilities. But more importantly, we need to ensure that we study and understand the fact that under climate change ours is only to do mitigation which calls amongst others a clearer usage of water and using other forms of irrigation like the drip systems so that our people can realise the future of agriculture.


We are conforming to the policies of the ANC in as far as food security. We believe therefore that working with our small-holder farmers, improving the essence of mentoring so that they have got access to knowledge, we will build a better future and that improves all our homeland areas as well as areas where predominantly we have got small-holder farmers.


Prognosis for, and implications of ongoing climate change negotiations


426.        Mr J M Mthembu (ANC) asked the Minister of Environmental Affairs:


(1)          With reference to the crafting of intended nationally determined contributions (details furnished), what is the prognosis of the ongoing climate change negotiations as per the Bonn pre-COP 21 session negotiations of June 2015;


(2)          (a) is the world getting any closer to a deal, (b) what are the implications for the country and the continent at large with regard to a global convergence on climate change and (c) are there issues that the country should be concerned about; if so, what are those?                                                                 NO3763E


The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the hon member for asking this important question. The response is as follows: The parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC, agreed in 2013 to launch a process for all parties to communicate their post 2020 climate change response undertakings in the form of what is called the Intended Nationally Determined Contributions, INDCs. In 2014 the decision was further elaborated to define a scope of the INDCs as the minimum to include mitigation, adaptation and means of implementation, that is, money.


South Africa is currently preparing our INDCs and we are consulting - I will come to this point a little later if there is still time - however, we will be able to submit this by the end of September, beginning of October so that we are amongst the nations who are submitting our INDCs. The INDC provides basis for global community to understand the commitments that parties seek to undertake in order for us to contribute to the global effort and also respond to the climate change. The INDCs must be communicated well in advance before the 2015 agreement could be made in Paris in order to enable the process of aggregation so that we can add the totals. The totals are therefore necessary to inform all of us how the complete and the total contributions as proposed by all parties of the world look like.


The process of synthesising and analysing the pledges made by parties in their INDCs will be initiated in October as I indicated. Therefore the preparatory negotiations currently taking place in Bonn are advance in discussions under the Durban Platform, that is, the famous Durban platform - a draft global climate change agreement which was started here to be negotiated.


Our current Peruvian Cop President and the incoming French Cop presidency are facilitating intense consultation processes at ministerial level. They will be meeting with the Ministers of Finance because there has to be money for these issues but they will also be facilitating a meeting for the heads of state and the heads of government. In September, on the sideline of the United Nations General Assembly, Unga, there would be another such meeting by heads of state and heads of government.


While progress is been towards a successful outcome of Cop 21 negotiations, there are, however, some difficulties that we need to overcome particularly on how we to find expression in the very important principles of common but differentiated responsibilities and capabilities. Because on the very same question of differentiation there are those parties of the world which are saying we must now begin with differentiation. For instance parties like us, as South Africa, must now be called the middle income group, a point which we believe is actually a nonstarter. There are developed countries, but we are among the developing countries. Thank you. [Applause.]


Mr J M MTHEMBU: Hon Minister, the INDCs that we are crafting, first of all, will they assist us to meet the commitment that was made by our President in Copenhagen to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 34% and 42% respectively between now, 2020 and 2025? That is the first question.


The second one is, are they achievable and will they indeed assist us to make a humble contribution to the world’s efforts to decrease greenhouse gas emissions and thus avoid the negative effects of climate change? Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker.


The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, yes, indeed, the commitment made by our President in Copenhagen back then as alluded to by the hon member is being worked on. We are really building on that. We do believe that it is a long-term mitigation scenario that we should not actually deviate so much from, but build on it. South Africans are currently working together to try and ensure that what we submit as our INDCs as South Africa actually does have a connection with the long-term mitigation scenario that we have submitted. And that is our humble contribution.

We do think that as very important and responsible citizens of the world, these INDCs we are submitting, which are based on our long-term mitigation scenario, will indeed make a contribution to the world’s reduction of carbon emission. Indeed, they will contribute, our people have spoken. To the portfolio committee in particular, and all other departments that are participating, we would like to thank you because, indeed, the product in front us is actually a product of consultation. It arises from discussions and very hard talks. Right now we are in discussion with business. Business Unity SA, Busa, has submitted a very important principle and a very important policy proposal that we are looking at. We do think and hope that all of us will be saying, this is South Africa’s position, we will stand behind it and ensure that it gets implemented. Thank you.


Mr T Z HADEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, through you to the Minister, according to last month’s report by the European Commissioner for Climate Action and Energy,. 56 countries representing 61% of the global greenhouse gas emissions have handed in their reduction pledges. However, the key group of 20 countries have failed to submit their reduction pledges. It is extremely worrying and embarrassing to hear that South Africa is amongst the group of countries who have not submitted their emission reduction pledges. It is clear that the ANC-led government is failing to take global warming and the impact it has on our communities seriously. Hon Minister, I would like to know from you, what is causing the delay in submitting South Africa’s emission reduction pledge because I remember it was tabled in the portfolio committee meeting last year and earlier this year. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.] [Interjections.]


The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, to the hon member, the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs knows that there is something called a deadline. We are working on a deadline and that deadline, as I said – please listen – is the end of September. Today is 2 September. [Interjections.] We are finalising our proposal and it has actually gone through Cabinet and Cabinet has allowed public consultations that are taking place throughout the country. Actually we have one province to go through and by next week all the provinces shall have been consulted and we would have consulted with businesses. I did say that we have already met with Busa twice and other business companies and organisations. So, we are ready, we are on target and we are on time. About 61% of those who submitted before us, have actually just submitted mitigation plan. What does that mean?


We do believe that there has got to be a global goal on adaptation because Africa needs adaptation. There are those who were just in a rush, [abangxamileyo, nje] to submit something that really does not ... Maybe a shell. We want to aggregate and when we do, the numbers that we put on the table must then be able to be meaningful to reduce carbon emissions by ... We want a below 2°C world. [Interjections.] That is what South Africa is working towards. I do not know what to say. Thank you. [Applause.]


Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy and hon Minister, we are indeed pleased to know that you’re department is on track in respect of meeting the deadline which has been setup. One of the questions that has been asked by hon Mthembu is, are there any issues which the country should be concerned about? Now, hon Minister, we know that South Africa has high renewable energy potential including abandoned wind resources and some of the highest solar radiation levels in the world as its contribution to mitigate the effects of climate change. What is your department’s view on the nuclear energy pathway that is being proposed by government? Should we be concerned?


The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: The negotiations in Paris are about the global agreement on efforts to reduce carbon emissions. What I have alluded to earlier on are the things that we are worried about namely, differentiation, finance and issues pertaining to the legal form of the agreement. If those four issues may not be agreed upon by any party, then we have a potential disaster of maybe not even finalising our agreement on negotiations. What will we be doing back home when we are suppose to implement. In our space we have what we call the National Climate Change Response Policy which, amongst others, covers energy. Let me go straight to energy because other elements such as transport and so forth, as contained in the National Climate Change Response Policy, will be discussed some other day.

However, with regards to energy, at the time when we, as South Africa, were working out our long-term mitigation scenario - our Integrated Resource Plan, IRP - we also agreed that with an energy plan as IRP we will have nuclear. Now from the perspective of environment – let me say this – nuclear is clean energy. [Applause.] Nuclear is green energy and it has to be said. However ... [Interjections.] ... Just listen so that you can learn a bit. However, what is a challenge is the waste. The waste of nuclear is what we are concerned with as a country. Therefore you cannot predetermine that nuclear waste may be a problem even before working out your mitigation scenarios and issues ensuring that you store the nuclear waste, before dealing with whatever capacity and choices of technology that could be there and so forth. From the environment point of view we are not supporting that. We support green energy which is part of nuclear energy. Thank you. [Applause.]


Ms P NTOBONGWANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the only document that was written and which remains the most authoritative climate change mitigation document that would have seen countries reduce their greenhouse gas emissions is the Kyoto Protocol. The stumbling block has always been the United States of America, USA, the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases which has repeatedly refused to ratify the protocol. My question is: What is South Africa’s position on global action towards mitigating climate change? Should other countries move ahead without the USA? In the developing world South Africa is fast becoming a big emitter of greenhouse gases, is the commitment to mining shale gas and having nuclear generated energy not compromising our commitment to climate change mitigation?


The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, because the latter part of the question was written, I take it to be the reason why the hon member has read it. I have already responded to the question on nuclear. [Interjections.] The second issue, about the USA that was suppose to be part of the Kyoto Protocol, KP, but went back home and never ratified Kyoto Protocol and therefore went absent. As the world, we are saying, this time around the agreement and the negotiations that were started here in Durban in South Africa, at Cop 17 must be finalised. And I hear people saying that last hear we did not do anything. There is a programme of negotiations which started here and would end in Paris this year in December. What we are saying in that agreement is that, we must not do the mistakes that we did in the KP, but we must ensure that everybody becomes part of this agreement and therefore no backsliding. The USA is part of those. How are we going to achieve this? By getting these issues around the legal form, because the USA has always been saying, China as well. We are not in favour of negotiations and agreements that are binding in legal form in a particular manner. So, we have got to find one another on the legal form. So, the legal form is going to be the determining factor of no backsliding. Those are the things that we are negotiating - differentiation - as I have already said. So, the kind of agreement that we are discussing and that we are negotiating is and it should be such that at the end of the day there is nobody who backslides hereafter.


South Africa is one of the world emitters. We are actually saying, we will never ever compromise our space for development. Even though we have to ensure that we reduce carbon emissions it would not be at the expense of our development. Sustainable development is the way to go. Thank you. [Applause.]


Particulars regarding payment for electricity lost through illegal connections


376.        Mr J A Esterhuizen (IFP) asked the Minister of Energy:


Who is paying for the consumption of 28,2% of electricity that is purchased and distributed by the City of Johannesburg, which is eventually lost through illegal connections, with the loss amounting to R2,5 billion in monetary value?                                                                                              NO3708E


The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Deputy Speaker, the hon Esterhuizen as a member of the committee of Energy I suppose you are aware that this question should not be asked the Department of Energy. The matter does not fall within the ambit of the responsibilities of the Department of Energy. Thank you.


Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order: When questions are submitted to the Secretariat we do not say to which department it should be sent to. The Secretariat should advise us as political parties that the question should be referred to another Minister. I hope the hon Minister realises that it’s not the fault of the hon Esterhuizen in this regard, but it’s a genuine question that has been forwarded to Parliament to be answered by a Minister.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think it is a fair comment that the direction of questions to Ministers happen inside the administration. They will correct that mistake. This should not have happened in the first place.


Mr J M MTHEMBU: Deputy Speaker, whilst this is accepted, but as Members of Parliament when we write questions we write them to certain Ministries. Indeed, these are questions that we direct to the head Table, but we might have directed them wrongly ourselves.


Therefore, it cannot be correct that we now blame the head Table for wrongly directing questions. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, this question will be dealt with at the appropriate time. Let’s proceed to Question 375 asked by the hon Filtane to the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries.


Particulars regarding socioeconomic impact of drought on sugar cane farmers


375.        Mr M L W Filtane (UDM) asked the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:


(1)          Whether, with reference to the drought experienced by the sugar cane farmers in KwaZulu-Natal, his department has conducted any comprehensive assessment of the socioeconomic impact of the drought; if not, why not, if so, what (a) are the relevant findings and (b) plans are in place to assist the farmers;


(2)          whether any jobs will be lost on the affected farms as a result of the drought; if so, (a) how many and (b) what plans have been put in place to prevent further job losses?                                                                 NO3706E


UMPHATHISWA WEZOLIMO, AMAHLATHI KUNYE NOKULOBA: Enkosi, Sekela Somlomo. Ndiyabulela, Baw’ uFiltane ngombuzo wakho malunga nembalela egqubayo. Le mbalela ayithwaxanga kuphela iphondo laKwaZulu-Natal, ibinxantathu. Ithwaxe KwaZulu-Natal, uMntla Ntshona kunye neFreyistata yatsho yathunta yaphungula umbona neswekile le uyibalileyo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)


[The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Thank you, Mr Filtane, for your question on the current drought. This drought has not hit KwaZulu-natal only; it has been three-pronged. It has hit KwaZulu-Natal, the North West and the Free State and has reduced the production of maize and sugar, as you have pointed out.]


The KwaZulu-Natal provincial Department of Agriculture assessed and submitted draught reports to our department, the provincial disaster management centre. The reports were analysed and engagements were held with relevant stakeholders, including the SA Sugar Association and came up with possible measures to address the situation.


Our department is busy engaging with relevant stakeholders within the private sector inclusive of organised agriculture, the Industrial Development Corporation of South Africa Limited, IDC, and the Land Bank to come up with possible measures to assist farmers who have been affected. These farmers include those in the crop production and in livestock production. In livestock production black farmers do not have access to feedlots. A feedlot is an infrastructure that is developed to ensure that you put your animals in to fatten them so that when you sell them you realise an income. It is still a domain of the commercial farmers. It is something that we are looking at to make sure that water is made available.


Feeds are not available in areas of our black farmers hence in the three month of winter they lose a lot of livestock. When they sell they sell them at peanuts price. It is an environment which we are engaged in. I am not able, therefore, to quantify the amount involved, but I can tell you that we are busy engaging and everybody is onboard.


Siyaqhuba, asilelanga. [We are moving forward. We are not sleeping.]


Mr M L W FILTANE: Ndiyabulela, Mphathiswa. Umbuzo wam ubusithi ... [I thank you, Minister. My question was ...]


... what are the relevant findings?


Ngoku wena, Mphathiswa uthi kuphandiwe, kodwa awutsho ukuba kufunyenwe ntoni na. [Now, Minister, you say that an investigation has been conducted but you do not say what the findings are.]


So, firstly, you’re falling short. Secondly, how many jobs have been lost?


Lo mbuzo ke ngoku uya kweza zinto zifunyenweyo, ezi ungekazivezi. Besinqwenela ukuba zivele apha kuba kaloku sithetha ngorhwebo lwesizwe olunegalelo lwengeniso yee-R12 bhiliyoni, edala ngqo imisebenzi engama-77 000 nengama-350 000 engekho ngqo. Isiphumo soko kukuphila kwabantu abangaphezulu kwesigidi.


Uqeqesho kunye nezemfundo nezinye iinkonzo ezixhasayo zinento eninzi eziyichukumisayo kubomi babantu. Yiyo le nto bendibuza le mibuzo. Ngoko ke sifuna ukuqonda ukuba zithini na iinjongo kunye nendlela oza kujongana ngayo nalo mba kuba asiyiyo imbalela yokuqala le... [Kwaphela ixesha.]


UMPHATHISWA WEZOLIMO, AMAHLATHI KUNYE NOKULOBA: Mandibulele, Sekela Somlomo. Baw’ uFiltane, mandiphinde ndithi izigweqe zingamxaka umntu zingayiniki intsingiselo yendlela ayihambayo kuba kambe zombethe ezopolitiko. Mandiye kuwe ngqo.


Ndibonisile apha ukuba uphando lwenziwe, iinkcukacha zafunyanwa, kodwa asikafikeleli ke ukuba mingaphi imisebenzi elahlekileyo ngenxa yale ngxubakaxaka yembalela. Kungoko ndisithi esikwenzileyo kukuqinisekisa ukuba apho kufuneka khona ukutya ukondla izilwanyana kuyafumaneka. Njengoko nawe usitsho ukuba le mbalela asiyiyo eyokuqala, ngaphambili yayiyekaQilo, kwaye mhlawumbi ikhona ezayo. Kodwa ke akubalulekanga ukubala iimbalela kuba impendulo elandelayo awunakuyifunda ngembali. Ungayibalisa imbali; nomuncu angenza njalo; kodwa ukubona ngenx’ engaphambili kufuna amehlo anzulu nobutsolo bengqondo.

Mandiye ngqo kuwe ke, mhlekazi. Sisaphanda kwaye sisaqokelela iinkcukacha. Ndiyavumelana nawe futhi, kungoko ndisithi masakhe iindawo zokugcina sondle izilwanyana [feedlots] ukuze zithi iinkomo zakufikelwa yimbalela zinikwe ukutya zithengiswe. Ukuba amanzi ayanqongophala singajongi imilambo nemithombo kodwa siwagrumbe phantsi komhlaba. Nantso into eyenzekayo kwisebe, mhlekazi wam. Ndithemba ukuba ngenye imini uza kundikhapha ndithi ndakuphazama endleleni undikhombise kuba kambe silwa imfazwe enye. Enkosi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)


[Now this question relates to the findings, which you have not revealed. We would like to have them revealed here because we are talking about national trade which contributes R12 billion in revenue and creates 77 000 direct and 350 000 indirect jobs. This contributes to the livelihoods of more than a million people.


Training and education, and other auxiliary services, have a huge impact on the lives of people. That is why I asked these questions. Therefore we would like to know, what are your intentions and how are you going to address this matter because this is not the first drought to hit this country ... [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Mr Filtane, let me make the point again, that political jargon can hide meaning. Let me give you a straight answer. I have indicated here that an investigation has been carried out and that information has been collected, but that we have not reached a conclusion as to how many jobs have been lost as a result of the crisis of this drought. That is why I say what we have done is to make sure that where feed for animals is needed it is provided. As you yourself say, this is not the first drought as there was the Drought of Qilo before it and probably not the last. However, counting the number of droughts is not important because history cannot teach you about the next answer to your question. You can narrate history; even a dumb head can; but foresight requires eyes that can look deep, and a sharp mind.


Let me go straight to your question, sir. We are still investigating and we are still collecting information. I agree with you, that is why I am saying let us build feedlots so that when there is a drought cattle can be provided with feed and be sold. When there is scarcity of water we should not depend on water from rivers and springs but we must drill it from underground. That is what is happening in the department, sir. I hope that one day you will accompany me on the road ahead and show me the way because indeed we are fighting one battle. Thank you.]

Mr M HLENGWA: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the sugar industry is in a lot of trouble. The drought has come to compound it now. Already we are dealing with dumped sugar from Brazil, Guatemala, India and so on. Minister Davies is speaking about tariffs and so on, and Minister Nkwinti is saying that actually we should not be importing these things. It is already an industry that is under strain so the draught comes in to compound it.


What is the broader and more holistic approach and intervention that your department is actually instituting to ensure that we are protecting the agricultural industry generally, but specifically the issues of the sugar industry which is the big industry in the country that creates jobs  and, by and large, is the backbone of the economy? Because if we not address that we are going to find ourselves in a serious trouble as far as job losses are concerned. Does the investigation that you are doing encompass a broader investigation to these factors? What are your findings? What progress is there? What interventions are there? Thank you.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Deputy Speaker, let me answer it in this way. Amongst the broader programmes to deal with green energy, sugar did forms part of that. As a base going forward this is to ensure that sugar is not only used for the current purpose that it is used now. We have had a discussion with the sugar industry. They have complained about the fact that they are competing with countries like Brazil that not only rely on sugar being sold as a commodity, but also being used in electricity production. We are busy looking at that. When that policy is introduced I am sure you will agree with me that there will be other avenues for which sugar could be used for.


But, of course, we need to improve the way we do our agriculture. Coming to smart agriculture, we must have better usage of water resources to make sure that these farmers are assisted. As I have said in my response, we have met with the sugar associations. We need to find funding models that can assist them to make sure that we alleviate the current environment they are in.


Yes, I agree with you the future of agriculture need us to do better things and among them is to find markets for other commodities. But for sugar, I believe, if we use it for other purposes than that it is used for now, there would be a better way and an improvement in their own income. They are onboard in these discussions as an industry.


Ms Z C FAKU: Deputy Speaker, I am covered. It was a follow up question to the Minister of Energy. Thank you.


Ms A STEYN: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, thank you for the answer. To let you know, the losses in the grain industry because of the drought will be R10 billion and the sugar industry apparently will be R900 million, it is almost another billion.


Part of the job of the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries is mitigation and you mentioned that. The prediction for next year’s rainfall is that we are going to have another drought. What is the department doing currently so that we look at next year? Farmers in the provinces that you have mentioned said to us that they will not be able to get production loans to replant this year. We might have another crisis soon. What is the department doing to look at the mitigation so that we can ensure that farmers plant now this season? Thank you.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Deputy Speaker, as I have mentioned before that what we have done is the assessment of the extent to which these farmers have made a loss. I agree with you on the figures that you are giving. But the answer is to make sure therefore that we improve the way we do things. The Agricultural Research Council, ARC, is busy trying to find alternative cultivars as we showed last year that we have just produced 20% drought resistance seeds that we must make sure that they are available to farmers. I am sure therefore that coming to different crops like maize and sugar, we should come up with different methods. One of them is to improve the way we use water. I say to you that we can make sure that we put most of our maize production under irrigation and not the kind of pivots that we are using, but other forms and make sure that we produce while we are faced with the droughts that are coming onboard.


They believe that in the forums created where these farmers are participating, including you Ms Steyn as a farmer, I am sure that you will come up with answers. It is our concern to make sure that farmers do not lose hope to produce next year. As I have said there are financial institutions that we have approached to make sure that we assist farmers and not only to mitigate the losses that they have incurred, but also to enable them to at least continue to plough next year. We need to improve our methods that we are employing in dealing with smart agriculture. We need to do more research to make sure that we come up with new cultivars that can withstand the scourge of drought when it happens. In this, I repeat, we are together and we must find answers.


Mr T R J E RAMOKHOASE: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, my follow up question is on irrigation. How will the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries’, Daf, draft irrigation strategy aimed at increasing the number of hectors under irrigation by smallholder producers be taken forward to alleviate current and future threats of drought to economic sustainability of the sector? Thank you.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Deputy Speaker, Mr Ramokhoase, my answer is that, when I speak about smart agriculture I speak about other methods. One of the areas is to improve the availability of water to make sure that it is easy to access water licensing and those with licences should able to share with others. We propose that we use more drip irrigation system than the pivot irrigation system as it also exposes water to other high levels of evaporation.


We will achieve this by making sure together with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform that we put more funding in building the infrastructure. We are working on a plan to make sure that areas that are vulnerable to high levels of drought are assisted.


Therefore, if we do more research in finding new cultivars we will make it accessible to farmers and they can access our 20% drought resistance seeds. I am sure we can improve and ensure that we can withstand the scourge like the one we are under.


But I am sure that in the new plans going forward we need to put large amount of land under irrigation as we can no longer rely on dry farming type of agriculture as we have been exposed to it before informed by the current situation. Funding will be made available to assist farmers and build more new dams, and if not we will use underground water systems like drilling boreholes so that those farmers are not exposed to the current conditions that we are in now. Thank you very much.


Benefits to previously disadvantaged communities flowing from departmental budget investment in aquaculture projects


423.        Mr C H M Maxegwana (ANC) asked the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:


In view of Operation Phakisa presenting new opportunities of maximising socio-economic benefits from the marine environment, (a) what amount of his department’s budget that is invested in aquaculture projects is going to benefit black-owned co-operatives and/or operations, particularly in previously disadvantaged communities and (b) how will the shortage of skills, human capacity and limited financial resources be addressed to ensure delivery on the mandate of the Fisheries Branch?                                            NO3760E


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Deputy Speaker, on the issue of aquaculture and skills, we have entered into a partnership with the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University in trying to invest more in key skills in aquaculture.


We have entered into an agreement with China around an exchange programme so that we can have access to the most crucial skills that we don’t have at our disposal. The Chinese government has agreed to allow us to send students to study in the field of aquaculture. So it will be in the [Inaudible.] of skills and training of our people that we can ensure they are able to understand.


As the department we have put aside a certain amount to make sure that we can improve the work of black-owned co-operatives. We can only do that by making sure that training is made available. We therefore have a plan to ensure that aquaculture succeeds. Thank you very much.


Mr C H MAXEGWANA: Mandibambe ngazo zozibini kuwe Mphathiswa. Imiba emininzi uyichaphazele phaya kulaa mpendulo kaNkosi Mandela. Kodwa ke imibuzo nje mibini ukuya esithathwini kwaye ithi: [Let me thank you, Minister. You have touched on many issues you have touch when you were responding to Chief Mandela. However, there are two or three more questions and they are:]


What are the results of any impact assessment in determining success of such disbursements to the intended objectives of projects that is referred to the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme, CASP, which I think is playing a very important role in our provinces? What is the nature of the collaboration with the Department of Higher Education to address the shortages of skills and human capacity?


Uwuphendule lo mbuzo kodwa ukuba ungakhe uchaze ukuba singajongana njani na nale miba kweli candelo lezokuloba. Kaloku eli candelo lezokuloba liye lalambatha kakhulu kwimihla yangaphambili ngenxa yoorhulumente bangaphambili.


UMPHATHISWA WESEBE LEZOLIMO, AMAHLATHI NEZOKULOBA: Mnumzana Maxhegwana, mandivumelane nawe kuba xa sijonga kumsebenzi we-Casp nokuba bangaphi abantu ebancedileyo, ndiqinisekile ukuba i-Casp yeyona nkqubo ikwazileyo ukuphuhlisa abantu abaninzi abamnyama khon’ ukuze bakwazi ukungena kwiphulo lezolimo bencediswa yile ngxowamali yezolimo. Ikwanceda nasekuboneleleni ukuba abalimi bethu bafumana iindawo zokuthengisa oko bakuvelisayo.


Malunga nokunxibelelana kwethu neSebe lezeMfundo ePhakamileyo noQeqesho nditshilo ndathi kweli cala lokufama ngeentlanzi (aquaculture) sinesivumelwano neNelson Mandela Metropolitan University ukugxininisa kakhulu kwizakhono ezinqabileyo. Ndiyavumelana nawe kuba kaloku eli cala lokufama ngeentlanzi belikade lingenziwa ngabantu abantsundu, ngenxa yengubo yangaphambili ebesiyombethe yocalucalulo ngokwebala nokuvinjwa izakhono. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)


[You have responded to this question but if you can elaborate more on how to deal with these issues within the fisheries sector. Remember that the fisheries sector has been neglected a lot in the past by the previous regime.


MINISTER OF DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Mr Maxhegwana, I agree with you because when you look at the work done by the Casp concerning the number of people who have benefited from it, I am sure that the Casp is one of the programmes that have succeeded in developing a number of black people so that they can also be included in agricultural projects through the budget of the department of agriculture. It has also helped our farmers with access to markets where they sell their produce.


As far as our interaction with the Department of Higher Education and Training is concerned, I said in the line of aquaculture farming we have an agreement with the Nelson Metropolitan University to focus on the scare skills.


I agree with you because the field of aquaculture farming is new to the black community, because of the apartheid government which has prohibited us from acquiring such skills.]


I believe that, with the current agreement with the Chinese government, we will acquire enough skills so that all the projects that we are embarking upon, including the programme with the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University, will have the necessary skills. So, no aquaculture project should fail because of a skills shortage.


We therefore believe that aquaculture will be an answer as we are trying to prevent any further poaching as well as deal with the impact of climate change that depletes our fish species. Thank you very much.


Mr M HLENGWA: Ngiyathokoza kakhulu Sihlalo. Mhlonishwa, Ngqongqoshe, empendulweni yakho ukubalulile lokhu ukuthi kukhona nezivumelwano zokuthuthukiswa kwamakhono okuyikhona okuzoqinisa umsebenzi okukhulunywa ngawo. Kodwa amakhono ewodwa awanele uma kungeze kunikezwe abantu bakithi ulwazi lokuthi amabhizinisi abazobe besebenza ngawo akwazi ukuthi abe nenqubekela phambili. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)


[Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Hon Minister, in your response you mentioned that there are agreements regarding skills development that will ensure the jobs which we are talking about. However, skills alone will not assist our people if they are not going to be trained in businesses management to ensure that they are successful.]

Some of the researchers previously found that, while skills development and skills transfer has been a priority, we have been lagging behind in ensuring the sustainability of these business initiatives such as the incubation to make sure that they are able to stand on their own, post the intervention.


We therefore want to find out, hon Minister, what plans you have in that regard, particularly working with entities such as the Small Enterprises Finance Agency, Sefa, the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, and so on to ensure that skills transfer is balanced with the knowledge and expertise of business management to ensure that we don’t set these businesses up for failure. Thank you.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Hlengwa, I agree with you that skills alone may not assist our people in aquaculture. Among other things, you need to know about fish health as well as have access to the markets. I can assure you, anybody who ventures into other fish species that are in demand in Asia ... and we are busy negotiating to ensure that we are able to find those markets. Finding those markets is part of what we need to do. and knowledge is part of what we need to implant.


But, of course, I agree with you. We need to partner with these people and with existing businesses where possible, so that there is mentoring, and so that we don’t create projects just for them to die.


We had a meeting with the IDC to look at the issues we have raised so that it is not only funds that are made available, but also access to skills. Our people not only need skills, but also access to markets. We want to see these projects not only as numbers; we want to see them, and those involved in them, succeeding.


I can assure you that there is a future in aquaculture, because we will be able to retain the protein-rich products that are being depleted through the shortage of species in our oceans.


Mme M O MOKAUSE: Tona, ke tshepa gore o tlile go tlhaloganya potso ya me ka ke tlile go bua ka puo ya me. Puso ya Aforika Borwa e ikgatholositse ikonomi ya mawatle lobaka lo loleele. Mo nakong e e fetileng, re bone Moporesidente a tlhoma se re se bitsang Operation Phakisa. Le fa go ntse jalo se re se boneng ke maano fela a a senang gore a ya kgotsa a boa. Ka jalo, re botsa gore ke maano afe a a beilweng ke puso go tsweletsa ka bonako ikonomi ya  mawatle. A re le naga a re na le bokgoni kgotsa re beile maano ao fela re sena bokgoni. Ke a leboga.


TONA YA TEMOTHUO, DIKGWA LE TSHWARO YA DITLHAPI: Ke utlwile sentle. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follow.)


[Ms M O MOKAUSE: Minister, I will be posing my question in my language and I hope you will understand it. The South African government has long ignored the ocean economy.  Operation Phakisa was launched by the President; like all other programmes – ineffective. So, the question is: What plans have the government put in place to fast-track ocean economy? As a country, do we have the skills or we just launch programmes without skills. I thank you.




As government, we don’t do things that we don’t understand. [Interjections.] If you care to know and understand what is involved in aquaculture you will find out that we are not only dealing with the ocean economy; we are dealing with transportation, ocean management, aquaculture and others. We are clear on what we are dealing with. We have identified 12 aquaculture projects. We are busy reclaiming harbours, because fishing can’t take place without harbours you.


Ke nagana gore fa o ka ipha nako wa nna le nna fatshe kgotsa ra bua ka mogala, eseng a jaaka tsala, o seke wa tshoga, [Tsenoganong.]Ga ke batle go bua le wena mo mogaleng ka mabaka a mangwe ke batla go go thusa gore o tlhaloganye gore fa re bua ka fisheries,  aquaculture re bua ka eng, fa re bua ka porogerama ya go ya kwa pele re bua ka eng, gongwe fa re bua  ga o kitla.


Mme M O MOKAUSE: Tona ga re na nako ya go bua kwa dikhutlwaneng, jaaka mokgatlho re tlile mo re romilwe ke batho, fa re botsa dipotso  o di arabe  gore batho ba ba re romileng ba kgone go tlhaloganya, araba potso mo Ntlong rra.


TONA YA TEMOTHUO, DIKGWA LE TSHWARO YA DITLHAPI: Ka na ke a re re ... (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)


[...I think if you can just take time to speak with me personally or through the phone, [Interjection.]  don’t worry not as a friend,  to make you understand what is it that we refer to when we speak about fisheries, aquaculture and programmes of going forward maybe then you will not ...


Ms M O MOKAUSE: Minister, we don’t have time to speak in private, as a political party, we were sent here by the people so when we ask you a question we expect an answer so that the people who sent us here would understand. Answer the question in the House sir.




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister, the member rose to make a specific point that, in fact, is not a point of order. The hon Filtane?


Mnu M L W FILTANE: Ndiyabulela, sowubuya apho kwa-EFF uze apha kwa-UDM, enkosi kakhulu. Mphathiswa, le mibuzo siyibuza kumxholo wezoqoqosho. Sithetha apha nge-aquaculture. Ingxaki yam yinto yokuba xa sisiya kufuna uncedo eChina, siza kufundiswa ngamaTshayina. Ingaba loo nto ayisayi kwenza ukuba aba bantu bafundiswayo basiphathele inkcubeko yaseChina? (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)


[Mr M L W FILTANE: I thank you, you can leave the EFF and come join the UDM, thank you very much. Minister, the questions we are asking are within the context of economy. We are discussing the issue of aquaculture. My challenge is that of depending on China for assistance and be taught by Chinese. Is that not going to end up in the trainees absorbing the Chinese culture?]


That is a big risk that we are running. Why China? Why can’t we get our people to be capacitated locally? This is a serious matter because every business has its own culture. So, I hope you give me a quality response to that. Why China? How many projects are we looking at and what sort of turnover do you expect from these projects?


The contexts of return on investment ... spending and educating people of China ... spending money on them to go to university to get educated ... What sort of return on investment are we looking at? I would hope that we are not speculating and that we are not going to spend millions on all of this and hope to generate a lot of income. So I hope you have some kind of answer for me – not China culture.


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Our engineers and our scientists in the fishing industry have been trained together in the work they are doing.


Andazi ke mhlawumbi nokuba unalo na ukhwekhwe. Mhlawumbi uza kucinga ukuba ndiyakuthuka, kodwa andikuthuki. Ndizama ukuthi, ukuba mhlawumbi ikhona indawo erhwexayo kuwe ngeChina, andisayi kuyiphendula leyo, kodwa iChina isinike izibonelelo zokufunda ezili-19 ukuze abantu bethu baye kufunda khona. Kaloku eChina baneengcali kwi-aquaculture abafundi njengathi. Kwathiwa ke kum, inyathi ibuzwa kwabaphambili, soze ubuze umntu ongasemva ufuna ukuya phambili. Awuyibuzi ukuba indlela ibheka ngaphi emntwini ongaboniyo.


Lilonke ke ndithi kuwe, asiyiyo yodwa iChina. Ndithe iNelson Mandela Metropolitan University inenkqubo ye-aquaculture eyiqhubayo, ayikho ngaphandle. Umntu ofunde ngaphandle akasayi kwambatha ingubo yelo lizwe ngokwenkcubeko; uza nolwazi kuphela kuba kaloku iimeko zeelwandle azisayi kufana. Ndinethemba ke nawe, lungu elihloniphekileyo, ndiyakucela ngaphandle kwale ngubo sikuyo, uze ukwazi ukuthetha nam. Kaloku le nto inzulu kwaye inde, xa ndinokuyichaza yonke kungatshona ilanga aze athi osesihlalweni “liphelile ixesha”. Andifuni njalo ke. Enkosi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)


[I do not know whether you have a scab or what. Maybe you are going to think that I am insulting you, but I am not. I want to say, maybe you to you there is something that does not add up as far as China is concerned, but I am not going to respond to that, but China has awarded us with 19 scholarships to enable our people to study there. Remember that in China has best specialists in aquaculture different from ours. I was once told that wisdom and experience is gained from elders and the more experienced than oneself; you will not ask a person who does not have the information when you want to know something. You cannot ask a blind person to lead the way.


All in all, what I am saying to you is that the focus is not only on China. I said the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University also has the aquaculture program that it is offering, and it is local. The person who studied abroad will not absorb the culture of that country; he/she will gain the knowledge only because the aquatic cultures are different. I hope that even you, hon. Member, you will find it in you not to politicise this in terms of our political affiliations and try to understand each other. Do not forget that this issue is a very complex and long-term one, and for me to explain it to you will take time and the Chairperson will say “time expired” before I even finish. I wouldn’t want that. Thank you.]


Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, I rise on a point of order...


Mphathiswa, inyathi ngoku seyibuzwa kwabayibonileyo; baninzi abaphambili abangayibonanga. [Kwahlekwa.] [Minister, today you get the information from those who have already gained and implemented the knowledge; there are many who have the know-how but do not have the experience. [Laughter.]


Stringent controls on renewable energy industry


418.        Mrs C Dudley (ACDP) asked the Minister of Energy:


Why does the Government place stringent controls on the renewable energy industry by not offering subsidies like it does for the coal mining industry?                                                       NO3755E


The MINISTER OF ENERGY: House Chair, the nuclear energy programme, as we said, is baseload programme. We are currently charging 0,38 cents per kilowatt-hour. Solar concentrating solar power, csp, we are charging R3,20 per kilowatt-hour and this is available 50% of the time. Solar Photovoltaic, PV, we are charging 0,87 cents per kilowatt-hour and this is available 30% of the time. Wind, 68 cents per kilowatt-hour and it is only available 35% of the time. Coal and nuclear are baseload energy. You cannot grow your economy with wind and solar energy alone; hence we are diversifying our energy mix.

Nuclear energy is subsidising renewable energy right now. At 35 cents per megawatt-hour, nuclear energy is the cheapest energy right now in our country. The International Renewable Energy Conference will be held on 4th to 7th of October in Cape Town and I invite the members. We are also developing wind and gas. So, the gas and wind renewable energy will obviously be online much longer, high and quicker than the nuclear energy. So we are subsidising the renewable energy not only through nuclear but also through power-purchase agreements. I thank you.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Is there a follow up question from the hon Dudley? If not, the hon Morapela.


Mr K Z MORAPELA: House Chairperson, Minister as you have indicated that South Africa has a right climate for wind and solar generated energy, your own Renewable Energy White Paper of 2003 identified these opportunities. Now the question that I want to ask the Minister, why has the government been dragging its feet on developing renewable energy as an alternative energy source?


The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Hon House Chair, I think we are not on the same page. South Africa’s renewable energy is lauded as one of the top five renewable energy programmes in the world. [Applause.] Right now the independent power-purchase programme is there just for renewable energy. With regard to renewable energy of wind and solar - hon member, I offer to take you on a ride through the Western Cape and if you would still like my face, take you to the Northern Cape and the Eastern Cape - we have increased the megawatts of wind energy and solar energy. As I told you, we are even subsidising solar energy. Nuclear energy is now subsidising solar energy. We are expanding solar energy because we have our commitments on reducing our carbon footprint. I thank you.


Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Hon Minister, I have to differ a little. Solar energy for a direct private use can cost as little as 50 to 70 cents per kilowatt-hour. And the price is much higher to connect to the grid; it costs Eskom up to four times that much. My question hon Minister is, even if nuclear energy subsidises renewable, won’t subsidies to renewable and downstream companies make it more profitable for Eskom, as the state utility, to purchase renewable energy and not sell it at a loss as we are currently doing? Thank you.


The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Hon House Chair, the renewable energy programme is one of the most successful programmes this government has ever embarked on. It is also one of the most successful programmes which entail public private partnerships. We are improving the model as we are developing these different windows. So when we announce window 5, we will obviously have different parameters set because the price of renewable energy is becoming cheaper, however, connectivity to the grid still remains a challenge. With the current situation, we are working very closely with Eskom and Minister Brown to address the problems of transmission lines as well as distribution lines. I thank you.


Mr N SINGH: Hon House Chair, to the Hon Minister, I just want to know, can you just take one person for a ride to a journey to nowhere without all of us as Members of Parliament being part of that ride? [Laughter.] But my serious question to the hon Minister is: Reading and hearing about possible deals that have been signed on the question of nuclear energy, is she not taking us for a ride? Hon Minister, are there any deals? And here’s an opportunity for you to say, yes or no. Thank you.


The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Hon member, we have submitted the intergovernmental agreements that we have signed to the Speaker, it is available on the parliamentary website and I could email it to your personal email address. You are welcome to go on tour with me and I will declare that you accompanied me. If there is any proof of any deal that has been signed, please give me the proof. I have not signed any deal. The nuclear intergovernmental agreement with Russia was portrayed as a deal and the very same people who said it’s a deal have the agreement before them. If there is anything in that agreement which is against the Constitution of our country or the laws of our country we will absolutely like to know. The state law advisors have scrutinised those agreements and given me permission to sign. I also had a Presidential Minute to sign. The outstanding countries which we still have to sign with are Canada and ... [Interjections.]


Mr I OLLIS: Japan.


The MINISTER OF ENERGY: ... Japan. Thank you, I was supposed to go to Japan with the Deputy President. He knows! The DA complains that Japan and Canada will be at a disadvantage because the other agreements are before Parliament whilst they haven’t had a chance to do so. But I had to submit these agreements because you were all kicking and screaming. I then had to show you that there was no deal. I gave you the agreements, but if you still believe that there is a deal, then I cannot convince further than that. Thank you.


Plans regarding rolling out of sectoral determinations

427.        Ms S R van Schalkwyk (ANC) asked the Minister of Labour:


Is she covering all the sectors with regard to sectoral determinations; if not, what are her plans to roll out the sectoral determinations to more sectors; if so, what are the relevant details, especially with regard to vulnerable sectors?                                                                                                                     NO3764E


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, the Minister of labour is out of the country and she requested me to provide answers to the questions directed to her. No, not all sectors are covered by sectoral wage determination. There are currently 11 sectors that are covered by sectoral wage determinations. These are set by the Minister of labour in terms of the Basic Conditions of Employment Act through the Employment Conditions Commission.


The 11 sectors covered by sectoral wage determinations are contract cleaning; civil engineering; learnerships; private security; domestic work; wholesale and retail industry; children in the performing arts; taxi industry; forestry; farming sector; and hospitality industry. Vulnerable workers are found in the sectors where there are no bargaining councils and where unionisation is weak or nonexistent.

In order to extend coverage to other sectors with vulnerable workers, the Department of Labour has completed investigations in four additional sectors namely, building; funeral undertaking; gardening and landscaping; and abattoirs. These demonstrate government’s commitment to attend to the needs of our most vulnerable people, especially, the poor. I also want to indicate that the President of the Republic appointed the Deputy President to lead dialogue at National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, to investigate the modalities of the introduction of a national minimum wage. This, among other things, is aimed at ensuring that there is a minimum floor throughout all sectors of the economy to ensure that no worker is paid wages less than the minimum amount laid down. Thank you.


Ms S R VAN SCHALKWYK: Hon Chairperson, I thank the Deputy Minister for the comprehensive reply to this question. In the study commissioned by the department and undertaken by the Development Policy Research Unit, University of Cape Town, it was found that the decline in poverty is evident across all sectoral determinations, with the exception of the taxi sector and the civil engineering sector, which seem to have witnessed an increase in the percentage of poor. The decline in poverty levels is most apparent for workers covered by the domestic, farm and forestry sectoral determinations and least evidence for those employed in the contract cleaning sector. How do these findings inform the department in its ongoing work to review determinations based upon empirical evidence. Thank you.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, as I have indicated, the Minister sets the wages upon advice given to her by the Employment Conditions Commission which does the necessary investigations. Therefore, it is on the basis of the investigations and findings that have been put forward to the Minister by the Employment Conditions Commission that the Minister sets up the necessary and appropriate determinations.


Mr I OLLIS: Obviously the ANC put this question on the Order Paper because it is the substance of their 2016 election campaign - look at us, we saved you, South Africa, with the national minimum wage. We are not so stupid as to fall into that trap over here in the Opposition. However, that document that hon Van Schalkwyk just quoted from says that the case study that raising sectoral determinations in agriculture resulted in significant reduction in total employment. In the forestry sector there was no improvement in total earnings and fewer working hours. In clothing and textile industry there was significant job destruction in parts of the clothing industry. The minimum wage is even a bigger gamble with people’s jobs. Deputy Minister, if your election gamble fails in this collapsing economy what will you say to the thousands of poor South Africans who will loose their jobs while you have, anyway, implemented this minimum wage?


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LABOUR: The ANC is in power since the time it was elected until the time the people of South Africa elect it again. So, as government, we are not doing our work merely because there are elections that are eminent. We will do our work before, during and after the elections.


As for those sectors that react to the setting up of the minimum wage by dismissing workers, it is our responsibility as leaders in this country, in this government and in this Parliament to ensure that all people in South Africa respect and abide by the laws. If you are aware of anyone who has undermined or broken any law bring them to the law enforcement officers. Thank you.


Mr P G MOTEKA: Motlatšatona, re le ba EFF ke kgale re re lenaneo la mmušo la bonnyane bja mogolo wo o swanetšego go hwetšwa ke bašomi le phethagatšwe ka lebelo la mmutla ka ge ele tharollo ya mathata a bašomi bao ba tlaišwago ke bengmešomo. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[Mr P G MOTEKA: Hon Deputy Minister, the EFF has been calling for the fast tracking of the implementation of the national minimum wage programme because it will protect the employees from being abused by their employers.]


Clearly, there is consensus from all stakeholders except DA, of course. The question is why the delay because we all know that no worker can live with a salary less than R4500.


Ke ka lebaka la eng le goga maoto? [Why are you dragging your feet?]


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LABOUR: Hon Chairperson, we are not delaying the process. As the ANC, we are a government that believes in ensuring that everyone concerned has been consulted. The process that is before Nedlac, led by the Deputy President, is intended to ensure that the decision we are going to take in terms of the form in which the national minimum wage is introduced and implemented, is going to be sustainable and is going to be acceptable by the majority of the people concerned.


Mr M A MNCWANGO: Chairperson, in terms of the sectoral determination 9, which is wholesale and retail sector, what is the department doing to ensure that employees working at the wholesale and retail outlets at the many Chinatown malls, situated throughout the country are receiving the specified minimum wage and are working within the prescribed hours as per the Basic Conditions of Employment Act? When one visits these Chinatown malls, it seems as if there is, absolutely, no record-keeping, no sales receipts, etc. They appear to be law themselves, trading with mere “diplomatic immunity”. Thank you.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, as I have already indicated, if any citizen is aware of anyone who is breaking the law, that citizen has a responsibility to bring that lawbreaker to the law enforcement agencies. However, at the same time, the Department of Labour is in a position to take up such complaints immediately they are brought to the attention of the officials in the labour centres. Therefore, I would encourage the members to make sure that when they come across people who break the law, especially this particular one, they must bring that to the attention of the Department of Labour. Thank you.


Position on statement that media must be regulated


393.        Mr G R Davis (DA) asked the Minister of Communications:


Whether the statement of Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng that the media must be regulated represents the policy of her department; if not, will she publicly rebuke him for potentially damaging the credibility of the public broadcaster; if so, in what way will the media be regulated by her department?                                                                                   NO3728E


The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: House Chair, the department doesn’t have a media regulation policy.However, the transformation of the media is one of the objectives of the department. In this regard, we will in due course publish a discussion document on media transformation in South Africa with a view to adopt a media transformation policy for the country.


I wish to reiterate what I have said on my budget vote earlier this year. I said the following, as part of finalising this policy we will also investigate the possibility of pulling government media asset with a view to support the creation of a black owned media house in the country.


With regard to the second part of the question, Constitutionof South Africa guarantees freedom of expression by all citizens. It is in this context that I don’t have and don’t see any need to rebuke Mr Motsoeneng regarding the remarks he made on the media regulation in South Africa, as part of a necessary public discourse during the New Age breakfast show.


It will be interesting to know why hon Davis singled out Mr Motsoeneng when there was other panellist who also had personal views about the subject matter on the media transformation in South Africa.


Mr G R DAVIES: Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, you seem unwilling to rebuke Hlaudi Motsoeneng. In fact you have done everything you can to protect and promote him at the SABC. Now, that is very different from the views of your own party. Allow me to quote from the ANC’s National General Council, NGC, discussion documents which say, “the series of crisis at the public broadcaster reflect a lack of leadership, lack of accountability and poor management.”


In confronting the crisis more emphasis is being placed on reporting processes without a corresponding attention to holding those responsible to account for the financial and organisational maladministration that has brought the public broadcasting institution into crisis.


Do you agree with your own party that the SABC is in crisis, and that this crisis is due to lack of leadership, accountability and poor management?


The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: House Chair, the issue of media transformation in South Africa is high on our agenda as the government.We will do anything possible to ensure that this objective is realised.


Coming to the issue of the SABC, which I know you are very much obsessed with, hon Davis ’that discussion paper belongs to the ANC as an organisation. Based on the fact that you don’t have any other ideas or agendas, you stick to our discussion paper.


We are doing that in order to establish public discussion on the documents.The SABC is not in crisis,you know it very well.It is not at all. I can assure you that the SABC is on the right path and is delivering its public service mandate as expected.


The people of South Africa, especially the rural poor, they will say they take pride on the SABC because is giving them information so that they are able to make informed decision about their lives.


Dr H CHEWANE: Hon Minister, you told the Communication Portfolio Committee last year in July, that, in fact you vowed that the SABC will comply with Madonsela’s report. In your own words I quote, “the Public Protector is a Chapter 9 institution and whatever they recommend has to be done and be complied with. We can’t be seen as an entity that doesn’t comply with the Public Protector’s recommendation for remedial actions. ”Have you faithfully adhered to this promise? Can you please provide the people of South Africa with an example?


Vho H CHEWANE: Ndi khou humbela uri vha ambe ngoho Vho Minisiṱa.


MINISIṰA WA MUHASHO WA VHUDAVHIDZANI: Ngoho ndi ya uri ndi zwa vhukuma, vha a zwi ḓivha uri heḽi fhungo ḽi khothe zwa zwino ri tshi khou amba, na uri khothe nga ḽa 18 Khubvumedzi 2015 i ḓo dzhia tsheo kha heḽi fhungo. Zwe ra vha ri tshi khou amba ndi zwa musi vho sedzana na khothe. Khothe heyi ya Western Cape yo tshea i tshi khou ima na riṋe, ngauralo ndi ngazwo ndi tshi khou amba uri dzithemendelo dzavho a si dzone amba dzifhele nahone a dzi vhofhi.


Ndi zwenezwo zwe nda amba zwone zwauri roṱhe, sa miraḓo ya khorondangi, ri na vhuḓifhinduleli ha u tikedza Chapter 9 Institutions. Ndi kha ḓi vha ndo ima kha eneo maipfi a uri riṋe ri a tevhedza ndaela dza Chapter 9 Institutions. Ndi ḓo fha tsumbo sa ya Muṱoli wa Masheleni Muhulwane ane themendelo dzawe dzoṱhe ri fhedza ro dzi tevhedzela. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs follows.)


[Mr H CHEWANE: Please Minister tell the truth.


The MINSTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: The truth is that, as you all know this issue is in the court as we speak, and on the 18th of October 2015 the court will make a ruling. The Western Cape High Court ruled in our favour, hence I’m saying its recommendations are not final and not binding.


That is what I said that all of us, as members of the executive, have a responsibility to support the Chapter 9 Institutions. I stand by those words that we support the mandate of Chapter 9 Institutions, for example, we adhere to the recommendations of the Auditor-General.]


It is our word as members of the executive that we have a responsibility to support Chapter 9 institutions and that’s what we are doing. That’s why we also approached the court to get clarity on the matter.


Mufumakadzi Vho S J NKOMO: Ro livhuwa nga maanḓa Vho Minisiṱa. Ro zwi pfa uri vho ri mini. Ndi khou humbela u vhudzisa zwithu zwivhili fhedzi. A thiri musi ri tshi khou amba nga SABC ri khou amba nga khasho ya tshitshavha. Arali zwi tshi nga itea, a thi khou ri zwo itea, arali havha munna Vho Hlaudi Motsoeneng vha khou sokou amba fhedzi nga nḓila ine vha funa, Vho Minisiṱa vha ḓo ita mini ngazwo?


MINISIṰA WA MUHASHO WA VHUDAVHIDZANI: Muraḓo wa Phalamennde, shango ḽashu ḽa Afurika Tshipembe ndi shango ḽa dimokirasi sa zwe nda amba ndi tshi thoma. Zworalo, muthu muṅwe na muṅwe u na pfanelo dza u amba zwine a funa, tenda zwine a amba zwa si kandeledze pfanelo dza vhaṅwe vhathu. U swika zwino a thi vhoni hu na tshithu na tshithihi kha zwoṱhe zwo ambiwaho nga Vho Motsoeneng tshine nda nga ri tshi kandeledza pfanelo dza vhaṅwe vhathu. Muthu muṅwe na muṅwe u a amba o vhofholowa sa zwine ra khou ḓi zwi vhona na henefha Phalamenndeni. Vhaṅwe vhavho vha fhedza vho kandeledza na pfanelo dza vhaṅwe.


Mbudziso ndi ya uri: Izwi vhaṅwe vha tshi khou ḓi amba vha tshi kandeledza pfanelo dza vhaṅwe riṋe vhaṅwe ro ḓi dzula henefha ri tshi khou vha vhona, ri ita mini ngazwo? Vha khou itiswa hezwo ngauri shango ḽa Afurika Tshipembe ndi shango ḽa dimokirasi. Muthu u na pfanelo dza u ita zwiṅwe na zwiṅwe zwine a funa. Pfanelo dzenedzi dzo ḓiswa nga muvhuso wo rangwaho phanḓa nga dzangano ḽa ANC une ṋamusi vhathu vha nga a vha na fhulufhelo khawo. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs follows.)


[Ms S J NKOMO: Thank you very much Minister. We heard you. Please let me ask you about two things only. When we talk about the SABC we are referring to the public broadcaster. If it happens, I’m not saying it happened, that Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng just says whatever he wants, what will you do Minister?


The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Member of Parliament our country, South Africa, is a democratic country as I stated earlier. Everyone has freedom of expression, as long as they are not violating the rights of other people. Until now I don’t see anything that violates the rights of other people from the remarks made by Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng. Everyone speaks freely as we can all see here in this Parliament. Some of them end up violating the rights of others.


The question is: What do we do when some people violate the rights of others before our eyes? They are doing so because South Africa is a democratic country. Everyone has the freedom of expression. These rights were brought by the ANC-led government, the same government which people seem to have lost hope in.]


HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, there is no further request for a follow up question. The time allocated for questions has also expired.Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard.






CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy House Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the DA that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. Debates the –


  1. ongoing scourge of corruption in South Africa; and


  1. measures to combat these in the light of the recent attacks on the Public Protector. I saw move. [Interjections.]

Ms M O MOKAUSE: House Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. Debates the –


  1. Need for expansion of investment in the infrastructure and industrial development of the African continent through state-owned entities. I so move.


Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon House Chair, on behalf of the IFP I shall move that at the next sitting of this House:


That the House –


  1. Debates the –


  1. high number of illegal drivers’ licences that are being issued by corrupt traffic departments and officials throughout the country.


  1. the fact that a great deal of vehicle accidents could be avoided if it were not for these unskilled drivers on our roads; and


  1. the steps that should be immediately implemented to ensure that the issue of fraudulent driving licences is curbed and eradicated. I thank you.


Ms H B KEKANA: House Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf of the ANC that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. Debates –


  1. interventions by government to assist municipalities that are experiencing financial administration problems. I so move. [Applause.]


Mr J J MCGLUWA: House Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf of the DA that at its next sitting:


That this House –


  1. Debates the –


  1. shocking announcement by the North West premier, Supra Mahumapelo today that 36 000 nonexistent public servants are ghost workers, [Interjections.] receive salaries as well as the effect this has on the service delivery within the province and its salary budget. I so move. [Interjections.]


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon Chair, I move on behalf of the NFP that at the next sitting:


This Hon House –


  1. deliberates on


  1. the issue of a recent documentary on social media which has revealed deep-seated and institutionalised racism which is prevalent at the Stellenbosch University which was confirmed by management; and which shows that transformation at this university is still frustrated by white elite, with a racist agenda, which is causing a serious challenge, to our black students. I so move.

Dr H CHEWANE: Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. getting the key attributes of a developmental state correct to lead the South African economy towards a rapid industrial development, and


  1. To create millions of jobs the unemployed in the country need.


Ms L M MASEKO: House Chair, I Lindiwe Maseko hereby move on the ANC that in its next seating:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. the role played by science and technology infrastructure in benefiting the poor especially in rural areas. I so move.

Ms C N MAJEKE: Chair, hon members I move on behalf of the UDM that the House in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. the role of the mining houses in the agricultural sector development initiatives as an investment into exit plans of its employees. I so move.


Mr M M DLAMINI: Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF that in its next seating:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. green energy as the most suitable source of energy for South Africa’s energy needs instead of this toxic and expensive nuclear energy. I thank you.


Mr M HLENGWA: House Chair, noting that the United Nations, UN estimates that 71% of South Africans will be living in cities by 2030 I hereby move for IFP that at the next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. the need to stimulate and foster sustainable partnerships between the government, particularly metropolitan municipalities and the private sector that will culminate into infrastructural and economic developments in South African cities. I thank you.


Ms T E KENYE: House Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the ANC that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. united action to strengthen border management through regional integration underpinned by human rights driven integration and asylum providing systems. I thank you.


Ms V KETABAHLE: House Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. selective prosecution and use of the prosecution office for political vendettas and agendas while millions of rand are redirected from the state to their self-enrichment and self- gratification of politicians in the ANC and DA in the Western Cape. I thank you. [Interjections.]


Mnu M S MABIKA: Sihlalo, ngokuhlala kwaleNdlu okulandelayo egameni le-NFP ngiyokuphakamisa:


Ukuthi iNdlu –


  1. ikhulume –


  1. ngokudlondlobala kwezehlakalo zodlame ezenzeka Kwasikhemelele edolobheni elincane lakwaMhlabuyalingana lapho kuntshontshwa khona izimoto ziyiswe eMozambique, izitolo ziyashiswa, osomabhizinisi bayahlaselwa usuku nosuku kodwa uNgqongqoshe uyaqhubeka ukuziba ukuthi afake okungenani isiteshi samaphoyisa esincane kuleyandawo yosomabhizinisi. Ngizophakamisa kanjalo.

(Translation of isiZulu motion without notice follows.)


[Mr M S MABIKA: Chairperson, on behalf of the NFP I move without notice that in the next sitting:


That the House –


  1. debates –


  1. about the ongoing violence in a small town called KwaSikhemelele under the jurisdiction of uMhlabuyalingana where vehicles are stolen and taken to Mozambique, shops are torched, business people are attacked daily but the hon Minister you pretend as if there is nothing wrong, how about building a police station in that business area. I so move.]


Ms B J DLOMO: Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the ANC that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. building consensus on how to deal with race, class and gender by reflecting on our development paths and socioeconomeic system as a whole. I thank you. [Interjections.]


Nksz M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, ngisukuma ngaphansi kwe-EFF ngithi ngokulandelayo:


  1. ake kukhulunywe –


  1. ngamahholo kamasipala lapha eThekwini akhokhisa abantu abahluphekile u-R6 000 beshonelwe kungekho muntu osebenzayo, eNhlungwane, endaweni ekwaziwa kahle ukuthi iyimijondolo. IKhansela lakhona uMadlala uma umshayela ucingo uthi akakwazi, wawumuntu ozoya khona ethi uyobona kodwa agcine engafikanga kuze kwasiza uNgqongqoshe we-CoGTA othumele abantu bathola ukuthi akafikanga.


  1. sicela ukuthi ngokulandelayo kubhekwe le nkinga yalamaKhansela angafuni ukusiza abantu abahluphekile. Nalabo R6 000 abawukhokhisa abantu abahluphekayo emahholo kamasipala akhiwa ngemali yentela. Noma kungaba buhlungu kunina asinandaba. [Ubuwelewele.] ANC uhlulekile nya finish. [Ubuwelewele.] Sikhathele uwona.

(Translation of motion without notice follows.)


[Ms M S KHAWULA: Chairperson, on behalf of the EFF I shall move without notice that House:


  1. Debates –


  1. the Durban Municipal halls that charge poor people R6 000 for conducting funerals in them, whereas they’re not employed, at iNhlungwane, when it is a known fact that it’s an area of informal settlements. If you call Mr Madlala who is a councilor there he says he does not know that place, he said he was going to go to see that place but he did not go the , the MEC of CoGTA sent people to go and check if he went there, but they discovered that he did not.


  1. we ask that on the next debate this House looks at the issue of councillors that do not want to assist the poor people. And those R6 000 that they charge poor people for municipal halls which are built with income tax. We do not care whether this sits well or not. [Interjections.] The ANC has totally failed. [Interjections.] We are tired of them.]


Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the UDM that at its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. measures to address transformation in the horseracing industry; and


  1. steps to ensure that more operators enter the market. I so move. Thank you.


Ms H V NYAMBI: Hon Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the ANC that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates the –


  1. extent to which local beneficiaries could be affected in our mineral resources without undermining the unity of our people and their overall participation in all economic activities without being prejudiced by their geographical locations. I thank you. [Interjections.]


Mr M N PAULSEN: House Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. [Interjections.] South African capitalism which continues to be characterised by extreme exploitation of the black working class throughout all sectors.


Mr P G MOTEKA: Modulasetulo, I rise on behalf of the EFF that in its next sitting:


The House –


  1. debates –


  1. the need to regulate salaries and bonuses of state-owned entities, Chief Executive Officers and senior managers. I so move. [Interjections.]




(Draft Resolution)


Dr W G JAMES: House Chair, on behalf of the DA, I move without notice:


That the House —

  1. notes that according to the most recent SA Institute of Race Relations statistics, 13% or R139 billion of total government expenditure is devoted to health, which is the highest per capita expenditure on health in Africa;


  1. further notes that, despite this, 1 925 South African mothers died as a result of childbearing during pregnancy or within 42 days of delivery, or termination of pregnancy, and that the maternal death rate is in fact getting worse;


  1. also notes that the highest number of deaths – 21,7% of the total – is in KwaZulu-Natal, 21,6% in Gauteng, 16,5% in Limpopo, 12,8% in the Eastern Cape, 9,5% in Mpumalanga, 5,6% in the North West, and 5,3% in the Western Cape and Northern Cape;


  1. thanks the obstetrics health professionals, the nurses, the doctors, the emergency response teams and paramedics for the hard work they do under difficult circumstances to save and deliver lives; and


  1. calls upon the national and provincial health authorities to radically improve poor emergency responses and obstetrics care, especially in rural and underserved townships and informal settlements, which are responsible for the unnecessary deaths that leave newborns without their mothers to nurture and love them.


Thank you.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I put the motion. Are there any objections?


Ms M O MOKAUSE: House Chair, we object.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. The motion is not agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)


Mr S M RALEGOMA: House Chair, on behalf of the ANC, I hereby move without notice:


That the House —

  1. notes with sadness the deaths of several dozen teenage girls and young women in a road crash in Swaziland while travelling to a famous traditional festival on Friday, 28 August 2015;


  1. further notes that the truck they were travelling in collided with another vehicle along the highway between the capital city, Mbabane, and Manzini;


  1. recalls that over 100 more were hospitalised in various local hospitals;


  1. acknowledges that every year about 40 000 girls and young women take part in the Reed Dance ceremony;


  1. further acknowledges that women come from across the country to take part, with many travelling in trucks; and


  1. conveys its condolences to the government of Swaziland, the king and the families of all those who lost their lives and wishes all the injured a speedy recovery.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I put the motion. Are there any objections?

Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, we extend our condolences, but...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. The motion is not agreed to.


Mr N S MATIASE: We want Mswathi to be isolated.




(Draft Resolution)


Dr H CHEWANE: Chair, I rise of behalf of the EFF to move without notice:


That the House —


  1. notes the failed desperate attempt by the Minister of Mineral Resources which has resulted in nothing more than a rhetorical statement, the so-called Leaders’ Declaration, which means nothing to mineworkers who find themselves unemployed and unable to feed their families;


  1. acknowledges that as long as the mining industry remains in the hands of white minority capital and a mineral resource export-orientated economy, South Africans will never benefit from the rich mineral resources with which the country is blessed;


  1. notes that the signed Leaders’ Declaration is nothing but an agreement between government and mining capital to handle retrenchment responsibly and to send ... [Inaudible.] ... to investors and is a clear indication of misguided priorities;


  1. recognises the need for an inward and state-driven industrialisation through strategic control and increased public sector investment in the mining sector for the benefit for all South Africans;


  1. warns the Minister of Mineral Resoures again not to assume or think that mining capital is their friends, as all they care about is profit is all cost;


  1. calls for the nationalisation of mines and other strategic sectors of the economy.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I put the motion. Are there any objections?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. The motion is not agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)


Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, on behalf of the IFP I hereby move without notice:


That the House —


  1. congratulates the City of Durban on winning the bid to host the 2022 Commonwealth Games;


  1. acknowledges that Durban will be the first African city ever to host the Commonwealth Games;


  1. further acknowledges the accolade paid to South Africa and the City of Durban by the Commonwealth Games Federation when it stated that this was “an historic and special moment for the Commonwealth sporting movement”;
  2. calls upon government to make every resource available to the City of Durban in order to ensure that the event is a great success; and


  1. applauds the City of Durban, the people of KwaZulu-Natal and the whole of South Africa on this landmark achievement.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I put the motion. Are there any objections?


Mr K Z MORAPELA: We can’t celebrate neo-colonial...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. The motion is not agreed to. [Interjections.]


Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon House Chair, on behalf of the NFP I move without notice:


That the House —


  1. notes that I was recently contacted by a distraught parent presently living in Namibia whose child needed urgent medical attention but who could not travel as an unabridged birth certificate was not issued timeously;


  1. also notes that I immediately contacted the Department of Home Affairs office in Umgeni Road in Durban and was assisted by a Ms Zanile Dlamini from Birth Section who was very courteous and accommodating and provide me with service of a very high standard;


  1. further notes that Mr Bonga Mnkize, the supervisor in charge of the Birth Section, acted with urgency and diligence and immediately contacted the Department of Home Affairs office in Pretoria where the matter was addressed and finalised;


  1. finally notes that the unabridged birth certificate was issued within one hour of Mr Mnkize contacting the Department of Home Affairs offices in Pretoria, and that the child has since arrived in South Africa and is receiving appropriate medical attention;


  1. commends Ms Dlamini and Mr Mnkize of the Umgeni Road office of the Department of Home Affairs for their efficient and professional service; and
  2. encourages all employees of the Department of Home Affairs to follow the sterling examples of Ms Dlamini and Mr Mnkize and give full effect to the Batho Pele principle of public service.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I put the motion. Are there any objections?


Ms E N LOUW: I object to this praise-singing.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. The motion is not agreed to. [Interjections.]




(Draft Resolution)


Ms H H MALGAS: Hon House Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC, I move without notice:


That the House —


  1. notes with deep sadness the passing on of former President Nelson Mandela’s legal advisor, Sir Bob Hepple, QC, who died on Friday, 21 August 2015, after a short illness;


  1. remembers that Hepple serves as tata Mandela’s legal advisor through the 1962 trial before leaving the country without a passport, and inciting a strike;


  1. further remembers that Hepple was one of the original Revonia Trialists, but was discharged on 30 October 1963 after creating the impression that he had turned state witness, leaving South Africa soon afterwards without testifying;


  1. recalls that Hepple went on to become a law professor at Cambridge University and was knighted in 2004 for his services to legal studies;


  1. recognises that he received the Order of Luthuli in Gold from President Jacob Zuma in 2014 for his contribution to South Africa’s struggle for democracy and human rights;


  1. further recognises that, in 2013, he published his memoirs, Young Man with a Red Tie: A Memoir of Mandela and the Failed Revolution, 1960–1963; and


  1. conveys its deepest condolences to the Hepple family, friends and relatives.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I put the motion. Are there any objections?


Ms V KETABAHLE: We object.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. The motion is not agreed to. [Interjections.]




(Draft Resolution)


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I rise on behalf of the EFF to move without notice:


That the House —

  1. notes that the EFF student command at the University of the North West, Mafikeng campus has secured a strategic and decisive victory in the heavily contested SRC election by defeating the ANC-aligned Sasco;


  1. also notes that the student fighters were confronted with an enemy force that deployed celebrities, from outdated personalities like Arthur Mofokate, Chomee and Ishmael, to current soap stars from television series Skeem Saam, Scandal and Zabalaza, led by the hon Fikile “Pouting Selfies” Mbalula;


  1. further notes that, upon realising that the celebrities did not have an impact upon the relatively and largely conscious student body, the ANC MECs of North West, including the premier, descended on North West University to dish out more than 10 000 ANC T-shirts, as well as food parcels in the form of KFC and braai, to students;


  1. acknowledges that the EFF student command at North West University defeated them under these conditions, without a single celebrity or food parcel, armed only with the message of economic freedom, decolonisation and their impressive record of student service;
  2. further acknowledges that the EFF student command in North West University demonstrated that superior logic is stronger than food parcels;


  1. accepts that this election will inspire the people of South Africa from cities to villages to emulate the students of North West University and use their consciousness, not food parcels, to choose whom to vote for;


  1. further accepts that South African voters are beginning to reject political parties that buy votes with food parcels and that this rejection will be reflected in the 2016 local government elections when the EFF takes over municipalities from corrupt ruling parties;


  1. congratulates the SRC president, Benz Mabengwana, and all the candidates of the EFF on the university council who are going to represent the students; and


  1. wishes the elected SRC great success in fearlessly and selflessly fighting for students’ interests.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I put the motion. Are there any objections?


Mr S M RALEGOMA: We object to the lie.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. The motion is not agreed to. [Interjections.]




(Draft Resolution)


Mr Z N MBHELE: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:


That the House —


(1)        notes that, although Women’s Month has passed, gender-based violence continues to be an urgent issue that needs to be addressed in South Africa;


(2)        further notes that the rates of gender-based violence against female sex workers is higher than the rates amongst the general population, and that sex workers who are transgender or male also experience grave violations;


(3)        acknowledges that sex workers are especially vulnerable to violence perpetrated by police officers, with many sex workers reporting that they have been harassed, robbed, assaulted or raped by police, as well as being subjected to arrest or demands for bribes;


(4)        acknowledges that the policing practice of destroying or using condom possession by sex workers as evidence for an offence is not only a human rights violation, but places sex workers at increased risk of contracting HIV;


(5)        further acknowledges that ongoing stigma against sex workers has resulted in police officers refusing to assist sex workers who wish to lay charges;


(6)        recognises the need to put policies in place that mandate police sensitisation training to encourage co-operation and respect between police and sex workers, and the need to take a zero-tolerance stand against police abuse and corruption, and using condoms as evidence.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In light of the objection, the motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.




(Draft Resolution)


Mr M HLENGWA: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the IFP:


That the House —


(1)        recognises International Day of Charity marked on 5 September this year;


(2)        further recognises that 5 September is the anniversary of the death of Mother Teresa, the world-renowned humanitarian;


(3)        acknowledges that poverty persists in all countries of the world, regardless of their economic, social and cultural situation, but that it is just more prevalent in developing countries;

(4)        further acknowledges that charity contributes to the promotion of dialogue, solidarity and mutual understanding among people; and


(5)        calls on all international and regional organisations, as well as civil society, including nongovernmental organisations and individuals, to commemorate the day in an appropriate manner by encouraging charity, including through education and public awareness raising activities.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In light of the objection, the motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.




(Draft Resolution)


Mr S M RALEGOMA: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:


That the House —


(1)        notes with sadness the death of Esau Mofenyane More, passionately known as “The General Castro”, on Sunday, 23 August 2015, after a short illness;


(2)        further notes that Cde Castro, the youngest son of the late David and Meisie More, was born and raised in Naledi, Soweto;


(3)        acknowledges that, even in his childhood, he was known for his extraordinary humour and engaging personality;


(4)        further acknowledges that he was the kind of man who would leave loud laughter and remarkable memories wherever he went;


(5)        recalls that he worked for the Congress of South African Students, Cosas, head office as a national organiser for a long time and was also an active member of the ANC Youth League and ANC; and


(6)        conveys its condolences to his two sons, Rasekgwathi and Ofentse, and his brother, Khotso.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In light of the objection, the motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.




(Draft Resolution)


Mr N S MATIASE: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:


That the House —




















The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I now put the motion. Are there any objections? [Interjections.]


An HON MEMBER: We object!




The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: We object to the nasty party.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There are objections. The motion is not agreed to. The UDM.


Ms E N LOUW: Chair, on a point of order ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon member. Why are you rising? [Interjections.] Order, hon members!


Ms E N LOUW: Chair, I would like you to rule on what The Chief Whip of the Opposition has just done: He said he objects to the Nazi Party. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Order! [Interjections.] Hon member, I did not hear that remark because there were a number of parties that objected, but ...


Ms E N LOUW: No! I want you to go and check on the Hansard and rule on it. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I’ll check. I’ll check. [Interjections.]


Ms E N LOUW: Please. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Steenhuisen? [Interjections.]


The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chair, can I assist you? I didn’t say “the Nazi Party”. I said “the nasty party”. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Mr C T Frolick): No, but I will still check in terms of the recording ... [Interjections.] ... and I will come back, if necessary, to make a ruling. [Interjections.] The UDM.


Mr M WATERS: Chair ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon member?


Mr M WATERS: ... if a mistake ...


Mr M L W FILTANE: Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the UDM ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Filtane, will you just take your seat, please? [Interjections.]


Mr M WATERS: Chair, if the EFF has mistaken “Nazi” for “nasty”, then, if the cap fits, they must wear it!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon member, I said I will go and check the recording and then I will make a ruling, if necessary. [Interjections.] That’s really not necessary.


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Chairperson, Chairperson, you must not allow these boys of the DA to speak ... [Interjections.] ... about us!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon ...


Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Alright? You must not do that! [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, hon member, will you take your seat? [Interjections.] I will check and then I will come back to the House. The UDM. Order, hon members!




(Draft Resolution)

Mr M L W FILTANE: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the UDM:


That the House —


(1)        notes that on Friday, 28 August, Heyneke Meyer, the Springbok coach, did, after a much-anticipated news conference, name his 31-man squad to represent South Africa in the Rugby World Cup in England;


(2)        further notes that, in the build-up to this press conference, there were issues of injuries, racism and choice of players with Meyer and his squad;


(3)        recognises that in the 31-man squad, Heyneke Meyer named eight players of colour;


(4)        acknowledges their appearance in four of the six Rugby World Cup tournaments, the first being when they hosted and won, in 1995, and also when they won their second tournament, in 2007, by beating England in the finals;


(5)        further acknowledges that his squad reflects work in progress with regard to transformation; and wishes the team, coach and management every success in the Rugby World Cup in England.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): As there is an objection, the motion without notice becomes a notice of motion.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (MR C T Frolick): Order, hon members! [Interjections.]


Nks N P SONTI: Ndiphakama egameni le-EFF ndisenza isaziso sokuba, xa le Ndlu ihlala kwakhona, ndiza kwenza isiphakamiso:


Sokuba le Ndlu -


  1. iqaphele intlungu yabantu belali yaseMadwaleni kuWadi 15;

(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)


[Ms N P SONTI: I move on behalf of the EFF that in the next sitting, I will propose:


That this House –


  1. notes the suffering of the people in Ward 15 at Madwaleni village;]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members.


Ms N P SONTI: ...eeNgcobo, indlela abantu abaxhatshazwa ngayo yi-arhente karhulumente ebizwa Sanral. [...in Engcobo, the manner in which people are being abused by the government entity called Sanral.]


Mr N S MATIASE: House Chairperson,...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! Order! Just wait, hon member. Hon members, let me just explain to you. If you are sitting here making all this noise, then you are not taking the business of Parliament serious and you make it impossible for me as the presiding officer to follow what the hon member is saying. Now, whether you agree or not with what the member is saying, that’s immaterial, but the member has a right to be heard. Until the Rules are dealt with or changed, the member will continue, you don’t have the right to simply interject and make noise to drown out the speaker. Continue, hon member.


Nks N P SONTI: Ndiyabulela, Sihlalo.


(2)        iPalamente iqaphele ukuba le nkampani ivule umgodi phakathi elalini kuba ikhangela ilitye lokwenza indlela, ingakhange idibane nabantu kuboniswane; ivele yangena yazombela ilitye eliyifunayo.


(3)        iqaphele ukuba le nkampani yakwaSanral ayinayo imvume yokungena kulo mhlaba yombe umgodi kwaye ayizamanga nakancinane ukubabuyekeza abahlali ngomhlaba abaphulukana nawo ngenxa yalo mkhwa;


(4)        iqaphele kwakhona ukuba nokuba abahlali baye kukhalaza kumasipala, umasipala uthe akasayi kuzifaka yena ekusombululeni le ngxaki;


  1. ibuye iqaphele ukuba kule lali akukho manzi, abantu baxhomekeke emlanjeni apho basela amanzi khona kunye nezilwanyana;


  1. iqaphele kwakhona ukuba le nkampani yakwaSanral ikhupha amanzi amdaka kule ndawo yombe kuyo umgodi iye kuwagalela emlanjeni, nto leyo eyenza ukuba abantu bangabinawo amanzi okusela;


  1. iphinde iqaphele ukuba le nkampani yakwa-Sanral ibuye yabiyela indawo abahlali ababezithuma kuyo xa befuna ukuya ngasese;

(Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)


[Ms N P SONTI: Thank you, Chairperson.


(2)        Parliament notes that the company had opened a mine in the village because it was looking for a stone to use in constructing roads without consultation with the people; it just came and dug the stone it needed.


  1. notes that m Sanral does not have permission to be in this area and do this mining and it did not even try to compensate the community for the land they lost because of this action;


(4)        further notes that although the community did lodge a complaint with the municipality, the municipality refused to involve itself in solving this problem;


(5)        further notes that this village does not have water services, people rely on the river for water supply, which they share with animals;

(6)        further notes that Sanral disposed of the dirty water from their mining exercise into the river, making it impossible for people to have drinking water;


(7)        further notes that Sanral had put a fence around the place that people used as the toilet, when the need rrives;]


Mr J MTHEMBU: Is this a member’s statement or a motion without notice?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, I’ve made a ruling in this regard. Until the National Assembly Rules committee deals with this matter, we will be seized with this issue. It’s obvious that members are making use of the opportunity to make member’s statements under the pretext of motions without notice. That is happening across the board now. So, the Rules committee must deal with the issue and then the House will be able to proceed. Continue, hon member.


Nksz M S KHAWULA: Uxolo Sihlalo lapho ngaphambile kukhona into enzima [Ubuwelewele.] Zashintsha izinto uSekela likaNgqongqoshe uthi ilungu elihloniphekile uSonti ukhuluma umbhedo [Ubuwelewele.] Ngempela ngempela kuvumelekile yini lapha lokho? Cha, ake sizameni ukuhloniphana bafowethu. Sithula nje hhayi ngoba singathandi ukukhuluma. Asihloniphaneni la eNdlini. [Ubuwelewele.] Kuzolunga izinto uma sihloniphana. Ziningi izinto ezonakalayo lapha. [Ubuwelewele.] Asihloniphaneni. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)


[Ms M S KHAWULA: On a point of order, Chairperson, there is something wrong that happened there at the front [Interjections.]. Things have changed, the Deputy Minister is saying that hon Sonti is talking nonsense [Interjections.] Is that parliamentary? No, let us respect one another. Just because we are quiet, it does not mean we do not want to speak. Let us respect one another in this House. [Interjections.] Things will be in order if we respect one another. There are a lot of things that are out of order here. [Interjections.] Let us respect one another. Thank you.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, I want to make an appeal to all of you. As I have just indicated that this issue of motions without notice is one of those matters that must be urgently resolved by the National Assembly Rules committee. And until that is done, let us necessary the necessary tolerance because it is quite obvious that it’s not motions without notice that are currently being communicated. And the extraordinary time that it takes to get through this process is really not conducive – hon members there at the back, can you just listen when I’m addressing the House, please – it is really not conducive to the business of the House that we are seized with motions without notice which in essence are really not the case. Continue, hon member.


Ms N P SONTI: Ndiyabulela, Sihlalo. [Uwele-wele.] [Thank you, Chairperson. [Interjections.]]


Nksz M S KHAWULA: Ngeke akwazi ukuqhubeka. Sihlalo, ngiyakuthanda ngaphambili ... [Ubuwelewele.] ... akaxolise ngoba akufanele kulokhu kubukeka sengathi ngabantu be-EFF abaluhlaza. [Ubuwelewele.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)


[Ms M S KHAWULA: Chairperson, she can’t continue, I like you there at the front ... [Interjections.] she must apologise because it must not be as if it is only the EFF members who are rude. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, which member are you referring to?


Ms M S KHAWULA: Nanguyana. [There she is ...]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Which one?


Ms M S KHAWULA: Akasukume ngizomkhomba. Okokuqala, lo muntu unguNgqongqoshe asikho isidingo sokwenza lokho. [Let her stand up so that I can point her out. This is a Minister, so there is no need for her to do that.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Order!


Ms M S KHAWULA: Akaxolise manje ngaphandle kwalokho sicela abonogada bazomkhipha. [Ubuwelewele.] [She must apologise now, otherwise we will ask the protection services to remove her from here. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order. Take your seat now. Hon Deputy Minister of Transport, did you make that remark to the hon member? [Interjections.]


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Chair, South African National Roads Agency Limited,  Sanral, ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Deputy Minister of Transport, did you make that remark to the hon member?



... ukuthi uyabheda ... [... she is out of order ...]


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Thank you. No, hon Deputy Minister. You have withdrawn that remark. The hon member was busy with a motion without notice. [Interjections.] Will you just continue please? [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Hon member of the EFF, will you take your seat, please? [Interjections.] You are now disrupting your own member. [Interjections.] Hon members, the hon member of the EFF, I’ve given your member the opportunity to conclude and you jump up and just carry on. It’s not correct. No, its not correct. Continue, hon member.


Nks N P SONTI: Nditsho ke ndithi


  1. ibuye iqaphele ukuba uSanral lo, uphinde wabiyela indawo abahlali abebezithuma kuyo xa besiya ngasese. Uyandiva, ukuba ndithi abanazo izindlu ezi zangasese? Ngoku ubiyela loo ndawo bebezinceda kuyo endle. Bayasokola abakwazi nokuthini;


  1. baye bathi xa beza kuqhushumbisa, babathathe abantu ngebhasi baye kubabeka ndaweni ithile, baze ke baqhushumbise. Babashiya nje abantu kuloo mpengempenge bathi bebuya ngorhatya, ibe iluthuli yonke ilali;


  1. siyamcela ke, Sihlalo, urhulumente ukuba ayiqwalasele le ndawo yabantu baseNgcobo kuWadi 15. USekela Mphathiswa lo ube nethamsanqa noko namhlanje lokuba andive xa ndithetha kuba kaloku into yakhe nomsebenzi wakhe kukulala kulaa ndawo. Ndimazi elala, namhlanje ube nethamsanqa nje. Ngunobuthongwana. Nobuthongwana! Into yakho kukulala, Sekela Mphathiswa. Enkosi, Sihlalo.

(Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)


[Ms N P SONTI: I’m saying that it


  1. further notes that Sanral, had put a  fence around the place that the community used as a toilet. Did you hear me! I’m saying that they do not have toilets? Now that the place they used as the toilet had been fenced they are suffering and they have nowhere else to go;


  1. when they want to use explosives, they transport the people outside their community by bus and drop them somewhere, and then they blast the place. They leave the people in an open and unsheltered place and when they are returned back to the community in the evening, they return to a messy and dusty environment;


  1. Chairperson, we ask the government, that to take note of the situation in Ward 15 in ENgcobo. The Deputy Minister is privileged today to have listened to me when I speak because her job is to sleep there. She is known for sleeping, but at least today she has been privileged. She is the sleeper. Sleeper! That is what you are good at, sleeping, Deputy Minister. Thank you, Chairperson.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, you see, the Rules also allow the Chairperson to use his/her discretion in terms of the business in front of the House and the item that we are currently dealing with. Unless the situation improves, I’ll be left with no option, but to adjourn the sitting because it is obviously deteriorating to an extent that it is not conducive to the image of Parliament and also the decorum of the House. I want to put the motion by the hon member. Are there any objections?


Not agreed to.



(Draft Resolution)


Mr K Z MORAPELA: House Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House —


  1. notes —


(a)          the unspeakable working conditions of book packaging workers, who are treated like tools, employed by the Department of Education in the Free State province;


(b)          that, since their employment in 2007, these employees have been working without being paid any benefits, pension or medical aid;


(c)          that the Department of Education in the Free State has failed to make Unemployment Insurance Fund contributions, breaking employment legislation by doing so;

(2)        recognises that the ANC government is contributing to inhumane working conditions and breaking their own employment legislation;


(3)        further notes that the Department of Education in the Free State pays these book packaging workers with food parcels when they work overtime; 


  1. calls —


  1. for an increased number of labour inspectors, in particular to government institutions, because it appears that government is becoming complacent in meeting labour legislations;


  1. for the immediate improvement of conditions of service, including provision of all benefits; and


  1. on the Department of Education to stop treating workers like slaves.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I now put the motion. Are there any objections?




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.




(Draft Resolution)


Ms C N MAJEKE: House Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House —


(1)        notes that retired leading Constitutional Court Judge Thembile Skweyiya has passed away at the age of 76, yesterday morning, 1 September 2015;


  1. further notes that Judge Skweyiya was a Chancellor at the University of Fort Hare and, at the time of his passing, he was the Inspecting Judge of Prisons, having served in the post for four months only;


  1. recognises that Judge Thembile Skweyiya served the nation with great distinction as an anti-apartheid lawyer, human rights activist, judge of the High Court as well as a justice of the Constitutional Court of South Africa; and


  1. conveys its deepest condolences to his family, friends, colleagues and the whole country.


Agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)


Ms H H MALGAS: House Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House —


  1. notes with sadness the discovery of more than 50 refugees who were found dead in a parked lorry in eastern Austria on Friday, 28 August 2015;


  1. further notes that police made the discovery in the 7,5 ton lorry that had been stationary since the Wednesday on the A4 motorway near the town of Parndorf close to the Hungarian border;


  1. believes that tens of thousands of people, mainly from Africa and the Middle East, cross the Mediterranean every year in the hope of reaching Europe;


  1. acknowledges that many of these refugees are often packed dangerously into small vessels that do not have the necessary capacity; and


  1. conveys its condolences to the governments of the affected refugees.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I now put the motion. Are there any objections?


Ms M S KHAWULA: I object!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.




(Draft Resolution)


Mr N S MATIASE: House Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the House —


  1. notes that —


  1. the illicit financial flow practice by multinational companies is the syndicalisation of economic crimes between the local, dependent, black comprador bourgeoisie, represented by Cyril Ramaphosa and his ilk, and corrupt multinational companies;


(b)          the international capitalist mafia for whom corruption, illicit financial flows, tax erosion and profit shifting is a tool for undermining the sovereignty of states and wellbeing of citizens, is conquering markets and pillaging the resources of developing countries like South Africa;


(c)          South Africa, particularly the working class and the poor, cannot accept any further being made permanent hewers of wood and drawers of water in the country of their birth without taking the situation in their own hands – pasop;


(d)          the poor, unemployed and marginalised masses will not sit back, tolerate as passive observers, the raping and pillaging of their natural resources from which they are not benefiting;


(e)          the EFF call for the nationalisation of mines and all strategic commanding heights of the economy still stands;


(f)           this call is as relevant now and as it was during the adoption of the Freedom Charter in 1955;


(g)          no cosmetic and superficial gloss-over of the crisis in the mining sector will ease any hardship on the economy and alleviate the threat of job losses from taking place;


(2)        calls on government to take seriously the EFF’s call for the immediate nationalisation of mines and all strategic sectors of the economy; and


(3)        further calls on government to act now and declare all activities, practices and transactions which perpetuate and promote illicit financial flows, tax erosion and profit shifting as crimes against humanity because to us this is nothing but a glorified form of corruption that must stop now.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, I now put the motion. Are there any objections?


Mr S M RALEGOMA: Objected!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.




(Draft Resolution)

Vho T E MULAUDZI: Mudzulatshidulo, ndi khou ima hafha ndi tshi fhululedza matshudeni a EFF ngei North West, he vha wina dzikhetho, ndi tshi dzinginya kha heyi Nnḓu zwi tevhelaho:


Uri heyi Nnḓu -


  1. i tea u ḓivha nga tshifhaṱo tsha rennge ya dzithekhisi hangei Ṱhohoyanḓou kha Masipala wa Thulamela kha tshiṱiriki tsha Vhembe ho fhaṱiwa rennge ya dzithekhisi khulu nga miḽioni dza R250 . Heyi rennge ya dzithekhisi u bva tshe ya fhela nga 2013 a i khou vuliwa, a i khou itiwa tshithu. Vhathu vha khou shuma kha rennge ya dzithekhisi ya tshifhinganyana i si na mabunga na maḓi.


  1. zwino yo ri i tshi fhela vhoraidzhiniara vha ḓa vha sedza vha wana zwauri i na mitwe i nga si shumisiwe, i nga wa tshifhinga tshiṅwe na tshiṅwe.


  1. Zwino Nnḓu heyi kha i ḓivhe uri nga murahu ha miṅwaha miraru heneyi yo fhelaho ho tambisiwa tshelede ya miḽioni dza R250, tshifhaṱo tsho sokou ima ndi ḓema ḽi sa khou shumaho tshithu.


  1. zwino sa EFF ri khou humbela uri Minisiṱa wa Vhuendi a ye a sedzuluse uri ho itea mini uri hu swike hune masheleni a tambisiwa nga nḓila heyo. Ri khou dovha ra humbela Mutsireledzi wa Lushaka na Yuniti ya Tsedzuluso yo Khetheaho uri hu sedziwe uri ndi vhathu vhafhio vhe vha ḓidzhenisa kha zwa u tambisa iyi tshelede nahone i badeliwe murahu uri hu lulamisiwe. Zwi khou ri ṋea gonobva nga maanḓa hezwi zwithu.

(Translation of Tshivenḓa Draft Resolution follows.)


[Mr T E MULAUDZI: Chairperson, I rise to congratulate the EFF students in the North West for winning the elections, and move without notice:


That the House –


  1. notes that R250 million has been spent in Thohoyanḓou under Thulamela Municipality in Vhembe District to build a big taxi rank. Since its completion in 2013, this taxi rank is still not open, it’s not in use. The community is using a temporary taxi rank which has no water and toilets.


  1. further notes that after its completion, engineers came and assessed this structure and discovered cracks and therefore it cannot be used because it can collapse anytime.


  1. notes that for the past three years an amount of R250 million has been wasted on the building that is incomplete and useless.


  1. as the EFF, we urge the Minister of Transport to investigate why R250 million was wasted like that. We further request the Public Protector or the Special Investigations Unit to find out the people who were involved in this wasteful expenditure. This money must be recovered to correct all this. We are discouraged by this issue.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, I now put the motion. Are there any objections?


Mr S M RALEGOMA: Objected!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.


The House adjourned at 17:58.







National Assembly and National Council of Provinces


The Speaker and the Chairperson


1.      Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)


  1. The JTM in terms of Joint Rule 160(6) classified the following Bill as a section 76 Bill:


  1. Public Service Commission Amendment Bill [B 21 – 2015] (National Assembly – sec 76).


National Assembly


The Speaker


1.       Introduction of Bills


  1. The Minister of Home Affairs


  1. Local Government: Municipal Electoral Amendment Bill [B 22 – 2015] (National Assembly – proposed sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 39080 of 11 August 2015.]


Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.


In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be submitted to the JTM. The Bill may only be classified after the expiry of at least three parliamentary working days since introduction.




National Assembly and National Council of Provinces


1.      The Speaker and the Chairperson


  1. Integrated Report and Financial Statements of the Office of the Auditor-General of South Africa for 2014-15, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2014-15 [RP 338-2015].


2.       The Minister of Finance


(a)      Report and Financial Statements of the Independent Regulatory Board for Auditors for 2014-15, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2014-15 [RP 249-2015].


  1. Report and Financial Statements of the Accounting Standards Board for 2014-15, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2014-15 [RP 206-2015].


  1. Report and Financial Statements of the Cooperative Banks for 2014-15.


3.       The Minister in The Presidency: Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation


(a)      Report and Financial Statements of Vote 39 (Previously Vote 6) – Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation for 2014-15, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote 39 (Previously Vote 6) for 2014-15 [RP 325-2015].


(b)      Report and Financial Statements of the National Youth Development Agency (NYDA) for 2014-15, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2014-15.


4.       The Minister of Trade and Industry


(a)      Government Notice No 678, published in Government Gazette No 39066, dated 7 August 2015: Notice in terms of Section 23 of the Counterfeit Goods Act, 1997 (Act No 37 of 1997)




National Assembly


  1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans on the Defence Laws Repeal and Amendment Bill [B 7– 2015] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 2 September 2015:


The Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans, having considered the subject of the Defence Laws Repeal and Amendment Bill [B 7– 2015] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill without proposed amendments.


Report to be considered.



No related


No related documents