Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 07 Jun 2018


No summary available.




The Council met at 14:02.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


(Policy debate)

Vote No 29 — Mineral Resources:


distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure to be in this House today to deliver Budget Vote No 29 of the Department of Mineral Resources.

The department is allocated R1,9 billion for the 2018-19 financial year. The funding allocated to the department and its portfolio of entities remains inadequate. An allocation of R1,9 billion for an economic department is inadequate. Therefore, it poses challenges for us to carry out the mandate. This anomaly must be addressed so that we are better able to be a catalyst for the growth and development of the economy. We are mindful of the fiscal constraints the country faces and will therefore strive to deliver within the limited resources.

I used the first three months as a period for onboarding. Onboarding is something that is more elaborate than induction. It’s also socialisation into the space that I’ve been deployed to. We have done a lot of work where we have interfaced with the department through regional offices. That is where the impact of our work is most felt by our people. We recently concluded countrywide community consultations on the Mining Charter. We visited mining communities in all nine provinces over the last three months. We visited Emalahleni in Mpumalanga, Lephalale and Burgersfort in Limpopo, Kathu in the Northern Cape, Saldanha in the Western Cape, Klerksdorp and Rustenburg in the North West, King Williams Town in the Eastern Cape, Carletonville in Gauteng, Welkom in the Free State and Newcastle in KwaZulu-Natal. So we visited all nine provinces just to get a sense of how they feel about the charter and the department.

We are encouraged by the positive contributions made, both written and verbal, and they are really, really invaluable. We will soon host a summit to present the draft charter before it is taken through the relevant Cabinet processes and gazetted. So what we have decided to do is to publish the draft for public comment, go to a summit and then go through the Cabinet processes because once the Cabinet agrees we will not be able to tamper with it. It will be law to us.

During these visits we also received inputs on the department and how our stakeholders think we can better serve them. The issues raised in this regard are receiving the necessary attention and form part of our programme of action. We are committed to engage more with the key stakeholders we serve, that is communities, mining companies and mineworkers. Those are our constituencies. You will therefore be seeing more of us in the various provinces as we bring our services closer to the people. One of the issues that we picked up is that our offices in the regions are not interacting sufficiently with communities. So that issue is receiving our attention now.

The Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill has been tabled before the NCOP for processing. We appeal to the members of this House to assist in prioritising the finalisation thereof.

The reason for this is that, if we do not complete that legislation together with the charter, they constitute part of the regulatory and policy uncertainty and therefore makes investment in the sector more difficult. So that’s why sometimes you will see that we ... [Inaudible.] ... we were actually talking to you all the time, please accelerate. We were not being difficult but we want to remove that policy and regulatory uncertainty and deal with the business of mining so that the department can make its contribution to the economy.

In terms of licencing, the issue that has come out quite sharply during the visits to the provinces is how officials handle licensing. I can summarise it as the delay in processing applications and the question of tampering and manipulating in respect of the issuing of licences. In that way we put that under the category of corruption. It’s where an application is received and it’s put under and some other licence is prioritised over what came first. We think we must deal with that decisively because it is equal to corruption.

In terms of the geomapping programme and shale gas development, the results of the geomapping exercise that is being undertaken by the Council for Geoscience, CGS, is expected to have multiple benefits. They include prospects for new mineral development, identifying new

ground water sources, delineating possible renewable energy sources in a form of geothermal energy, as well as land for infrastructure and agricultural development.

Work continues by the CGS and Petroleum Agency SA in Beaufort West in the Western Cape on the shale gas project. Research, which commenced with a baseline study being conducted, is now ready for the next phase, which is the deep drilling of boreholes. That is where we are with regard to shale gas.

On health and safety, there was an increase in fatalities in 2017 following 10 years of a consistent decline in terms of the number of fatalities. Together with the Mine Health and Safety Council, CGS, the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, CSIR, labour, employers, as well as industry experts in rock engineering and seismology, the department is paying special attention to the issue of seismicity. Seismicity is prevalent in gold mines because they are old and deep, and therefore, when the ground is mined out, seismicity becomes prevalent. That’s why we have a lot of problems in Sibanye in the Carletonville region because Driefontein is mined out and Western Deep Levels is mined out; therefore seismicity becomes prevalent.


The CGS has undertaken detailed dolomite stability and susceptibility investigations for housing infrastructure development in the Northern Cape province, with the specific intention to reduce infrastructure damages arising from geohazards associated with the extensive occurrence of dolomite. The initial study covers the following principal areas: Daniëlskuil, Kuruman, Prieska and Skeyfontein in the Northern Cape.

Illegal mining is a leakage to the economy. I have had many people coming to me saying it is a socioeconomic issue and a human rights issue. It’s not a human rights issue. [Interjections.] Yes, it is not a human rights issue. It’s a criminal activity. To steal is a crime. That is how we are going to deal with it. Stealing is a crime from whomsoever. [Interjections.] So, if you are stealing you are committing a criminal activity. [Interjections.] That’s why we are experimenting with the licencing of the zama zamas. The first experiment is in Kimberley. The second one is in the Tubatse valley. If they do well that is what we are going to do. Artisanal miners must be licensed so that what they mine goes to the formal economy and contributes to the economy.

If you are outside of that system, we are in discussions with the Minister of Police to set up a unit to deal with that issue, because it is as bad as stock theft. It is as bad as stock theft because the

Stock Theft Unit in the police is dealing with stealing. So we are going to deal with stealing in mining. Therefore, if we succeed in the experiment that we are conducting we are hoping to deal with that issue. That’s why it was reflected in the decline in production in the last quarter. One of the contributors to that decline in production is illegal mining. Another one is the care and maintenance of shafts that are still productive but are put in abeyance. Therefore, it is important for us to look into what we should be doing to actually protect the productivity of the mining industry so that it makes the necessary contribution to the economy and to gross domestic product, GDP, growth.

When it comes to beneficiation, a 29% year-on-year improvement, largely due to strict monitoring of the Diamonds Act, was recorded in the number of diamond carats that are locally beneficiated.
Without getting into that, the threat to diamond mining is synthetic diamonds, which are not real diamonds but they are actually artificial diamonds that are corroding the market for diamonds. So it’s an issue that we must pay attention to because it is quite dangerous. It tampers with the price of diamond products and it tampers with the market, and therefore we must deal with it.

In our efforts to promote the local beneficiation of our diamonds and precious metals, the SA Diamond and Precious Metals Regulator,

SADPMR, is currently embarking on the implementation of the diamond and precious metals beneficiation strategy. Initiatives by the State Diamond Trader, SDT, to increase participation and employment in beneficiation, include raising the amount of suitable rough diamonds offered annually to ensure clients have security of supply. With only 15% of South Africa’s run of mine production being considered economic for local beneficiation, the SDT is exploring ways of making it economic to beneficiate an increased percentage of local run of mine production, thus increasing the amount of rough diamonds beneficiated.

With regard to rehabilitation, the absence of mine environmental legislation prior to 1991 created an estimated liability of more than R47 billion for the state. Over the past few years the department has been involved in the actual rehabilitation of derelict and ownerless mines through Mintek and the CGS. In the current Medium-Term Expenditure Framework alone, 145 mine sites across six provinces were rehabilitated. These are 39 in Gauteng;
45 in Limpopo; 43 in Mpumalanga, two in KwaZulu-Natal; two in the Northern Cape; and 14 in the North West. This work continues. Rehabilitation is quite important to us because if we do not rehabilitate we are creating all sorts of hazards, like leaving holes in the ground and scars on the land. So that issue is quite important.


The acid mine drainage water treatment project also continues. The largest opportunity we are envisaging is in the treatment of acid mine drainage from the Witwatersrand Basin. Through Mintek, we are also testing a different method at a pilot plant in a coal mine in Mpumalanga. The overall aim is to provide water to build sustainable communities after the life of the mine. In addition, we are scaling up the development of an integrated filter for the removal of metals and bacteria in drinking water, through nanotechnology.

With regard to skills and capacity development, in the Free State the SADPMR has embarked on a project to support the Virginia Jewellery School. You will remember that, that school was started by Harmony. It is there and it must be supported to increase the capacity to bring economic revitalisation to the Free State. The Free State’s goldfields is a ghost region in the sense that many of the mines there are no longer productive, and therefore it leaves ghost towns. People who are from the North West will know that a town like Stilfontein, which used to be quite beautiful, is today a ghost town. We can count a number of those ghost towns.

Having said that, it therefore becomes important to focus on avoiding leaving ghost towns behind. What is important that you should consider doing is to begin applying your minds to think of alternative economic activities in these mining towns before the

mines are mined out, because once they are mined out they become ghost towns because they become a source of economic activity. Once you kill that, you leave behind a ghost town. Therefore, it is quite important for us to ensure that we continue to develop skills in these areas. [Interjections.]


Unjalo ke usisi Thandi; undivimbe ngabom la manzi.


So those are the issues that we are putting forward for this House to consider.

In conclusion, as outlined in this address, we have an insurmountable workload and high expectations from our stakeholders and society. Your support and oversight role will assist us to deliver on our mandate. We are making this point because mining is a national competence and a national asset, and we must never fall into the populist approach of saying that, because a mineral happens to be deposited in this area, therefore it is our mineral. It belongs to the state. Minerals belong to the people of South Africa as a whole and the state is the custodian on behalf of all the people of South Africa. [Interjections.]

I wish to thank the select committee for its oversight over the department and its entities, which ensures that we continue to pay attention to critical areas in mining across the country. As you sit there, Team DMR is ready to work with you to better serve our people and together move the mining industry forward. Thank you for your attention this afternoon. I trust that this budget will be supported by all in the House, including the EFF. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Minister. You can go to your seat.

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: I will wait for orders. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Minister, you are now instructed to go to your seat. [Interjections.] No, that’s not a point ...

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RERSOURCES: I will take the orders, hon Chair. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, upstairs we have had visitors from Romania. They have just stepped out. They are here on the South Africa-Romania friendship visit. Senator Féjer Odön has just stepped out. They came through and I’m hoping that at a

particular time the NCOP will return the favour and visit Romania. [Applause.]

Mr O J SEFAKO: Hon Chairperson, hon permanent delegates, hon Ministers, Deputy Minister, director-generals and officials present here, the year 2018 is a special year for the commemorations of the life of the two revolutionaries; Ntate Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela and Mme Albertina Sisulu who served our people with distinctions.

Hon Chairperson, I can attest to this august House that the department did present their budget vote and their Annual Performance Plan before the Select Committee for engaging and considerations. Chair, mining like the land question is historic and emotive one. In his work, Alan Paton; Cry, the Beloved Country, he has this to say; ... all roads lead to Johannesburg. There are opportunities for better life in Johannesburg.

An activist artist who was affectionately known as Bra Hugh composed a song called Stimela. This is the train coming from Namibia, Malawi, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Angola, Mozambique, Lesotho, Botswana and all the hinterland carrying young and old men conscripted to work deep down in the belly of the earth in Johannesburg and the surrounding metropolis. When they are sitting at their stinky and filthy hostels, they think of their loved ones at homes. Who would


also happen to be forcefully removed from their homes as their land was also equally dispossessed. The essence and the significance of this piece by the great activist artist is to give the analysis of that epoch. The hinterland was the supplier of cheap labour to the mining industry.

The discovery of diamond in Kimberly in 1866, and the discovery of gold in Johannesburg in 1886 in Langlaagte farm contributed immensely in the economic development of South Africa. The Freedom Charter has this to say about mining;

... the people shall share in the country’s wealth! The mineral wealth beneath the soil, the banks and monopoly industry shall be transferred to the ownership of the people.

This simply put the socialization of the predominant means of production. The compelling conditions were created for people to go and work for slave salaries. The introduction of a barrage of taxation such as poll tax, charts tax, dog tax etc and the curling of cattle are some of those compelling situations which forced and created the workforce of this cheap labour. The living and working conditions of mineworkers during the era of apartheid was indeed horrible. It is only in this new dispensation under the ANC-led government that we see drastic changes where the mineworkers are now


allowed to have decent houses, where they could stay with their families and hostels are changed into family units. That is the very good story that we can tell under the new dispensation.

There is a lot that the hon Minister indeed has touched on. Chairperson, allow me to welcome the proposal by the Minister that there should be a health and safety summit where all the brains, people from all walks of life including some universities such as Wits which used to be the mining universities. I think issues such as the dolomite and the seism if using the scientific and technological advancements such could also be detected prior to its occurrence because a life lost is a life too many. That is an area which is of critical importance that needs to be looked at. Safety of the mineworkers must at all times be before profit and bonuses.

Hon Chair, indeed the mine bosses and shop stewards should always be in the forefront of ensuring that they warn workers when there are some dangers. They should not be after bonuses but ensure that they take their lives very seriously. Unfortunately, Chair, the hon Minister has to ensure that he speed up the process of those that are trapped in the belly of the earth in the Lily Mine, collective efforts by all South Africans needs to be harnessed. Companies such as the Murray and Roberts, which has the capacity to go abroad and assist elsewhere, I think it is important that they should also come


on board to ensure that the remains of those that are still trapped on earth at the Lily Mine should receive a dignified burial by bringing them back to their families. Chairperson, as the ANC and the committee we indeed support this budget. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chairperson and hon Minister, we all know how important mining is to the economy of South Africa. Actually, the mining sector is vital to recover economic growth. The hope of the new dawn announced by President Cyril is not realised in the mining industry. A new dawn implies change. Unfortunately, change in the mining industry is currently characterised by lower production with an impact on job security, limited interests in prospecting that should lead to new mining activities as many South African mines will come to the end of their production within 10 to 15 years and some of them already did as the Minister has alluded to and lack of investments.

Statistics SA announced that 2,2% decline in the gross domestic product, GDP, in the first quarter of 2018; agriculture, mining and manufacturing were identified as the main reasons for this plunge. There was a 9,9% drop in mining, due to lower production of gold and other metal ores, mostly in the platinum group.


Contrary to this announcement, media reports indicated an increase of more than R8 per share of the Impala group based in Zimplats. The reason for this is the renewal of the Zimplats licence without a time restriction on it - one of the conditions making mining easier elsewhere on our continent. Here the platinum industry is struggling.

Hon Chair, the root cause why mining is not contributing to stabilising the economy and or ensuring economic growth lies in the history of regulatory and policy uncertainty since 2004. The inception of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill which is constantly amended with subsequent legal actions does not provide an environment of trust and confidence for investors or mining entrepreneurs.

The vagueness and many requirements further enable opportunities for corruption and abuse as seen with the Gupta-linked companies Optimum and Koornfontein. Furthermore, the little hope that was brought by the new Minister was erased by the fact that the Mining Charter ІІІ is the bases for the new charter negotiations and his decision to appeal the court ruling that the charter should be implemented according to the “once empowered always empowered” principle.


A report named a New Approach in Empowerment in Mining published by the SA Institute of Race Relations in September 2017 focuses on how the Mining Charter negatively impacts on the mining industry. Such as, the charter identifies its ownership, skills development and community upliftment elements as ring-fenced elements with which mining companies must demonstrate a 100% compliance at all times, throughout the whole duration of the mining rights, companies who fail to maintain a 100% score on these three elements, as well as 60% on other elements, will be noncompliant. Thus a risk for the security mining titles. Furthermore, when companies have to allocate more funding to ownership deals and encumbersome requirements, they will have less capital to invest in mining with the cascading results of jobs and all those things.

Hon Chair, the mining sector requires continuous investment to ensure that our minerals are reduced sustainably for generations to come. Sandile Mbulawa of the Rand Merchant Bank confirms that companies will leave resources below the ground or strip most valuable ores as rapidly as possible which will result in the reduction of the potential life of mines like the Harmony’s Kusasalethu mine where the life of the mine was cut from 24 years to five years with the impact on loss of jobs.


Mining requires a vast amount of upfront capital investment that may take 10 or more years to yield returns. Therefore, regulatory certainty and predictability which I have already mentioned remains vital to the industry. The report further refers to the fact that the Department of Mineral Resources introduced a draft Bill in 2016 seeking to establish African Mining, currently a subsidiary of the Central Energy Fund, as a separate company and have it reported to the Minister of Mineral Resources. According to this Bill, Mining Africa will be able to acquire mining rights, undertake own operations and acquire shares or other interests already engaged in mining. The new charter will enable African Mining to fulfil these aims. The belief that state-mining companies will uplift communities and create economic growth remains a fiction.

Anthea Jeffrey, author of the Institute of Race Relations report; in this report a New Approach to Empowerment in Mining disputes the alleged benefits of the charter stating that and I quote:

The ANC likes to pretend that state ownership in mining industry will increase and spread the benefits of South Africans great mineral wealth. But international experience shows that state mining companies are generally plagued by poor management, rising inefficiency, diminishing competitiveness, corruption and “capture” by the political elite.


We have experience of state-owned companies who have been captured and we are reaping the benefits of that with a 1% increase on Vat and investors that do not want to invest in South Africa.

Furthermore, the Junior Mining is currently under great stress as the Minister will well know as they had the Mining Indaba in Johannesburg yesterday. It requires free enterprises and lifting the burden of regulatory framework because they need the capital to continue exploring for minerals.

Furthermore, the rehabilitation of the derelict and ownerless mines stays a challenge. The department further stated that they do not have the capacity to do more health and safety inspections. Health and safety is a necessity for the workers as well as for the industry. I would hereby request the Minister to ensure that capacity is built and maintained in the health and mining safety sector. The reskilling of workers is urgent and has been mentioned by the Minister, but no plan of action has been seen yet.
Hon Chair, change claimed by the ANC in this case does not equal progress. We require a total change in the mining sector. A DA government will deregulate the sector, promote free enterprise and work together with miners and investors. I thank you. [Applause.]


Mr T DUBA (Eastern Cape): Chairperson of the NCOP, Minister of Mineral Resources, Deputy Minister in absentia, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, members of the NCOP, government officials, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to pass on revolutionary greetings from the province of the Eastern Cape, the home province of the Minister of Mineral Resources the hon Gwede Mantashe, uMqwati. Who would have known that in our lifetime we would one day see a former mine worker and a fighter for the rights of mine workers leading the Department of Mineral Resources in our country? [Applause.] Indeed, we must forever be grateful to generations of our struggle heroes who, at various intervals, contributed to the achievement of freedom and democracy in our country.


Ngenxa yemisebenzi yabo, namhlanje singatsho ngeliphandle ukuba likhona ithemba lokuba izimbiwa zelizwe lokhokhobethu ziya kuxhanyulwa ngabo bonke abemi beli lizwe.


As the Eastern Cape province, we have a keen interest in the Budget Vote of the Minister of Mineral Resources. Our interest is informed by the Freedom Charter, which said: “The people shall share in the country’s wealth!” A particular passage that resonates with us is the one says, “The mineral wealth beneath the soil, the banks and


monopoly industry shall be transferred to the ownership of the people as a whole.”

We might not have mineral resources beneath the land in our province, but we have the most precious resource without which mining operations would never succeed and that resource is human capital. Today, many of our brothers and sisters follow in the footsteps of their forefathers who used to take the long journey to the mining provinces of our country in search of work opportunities. They had no choice. In their own province, there were limited work opportunities because the apartheid government had long identified the Eastern Cape as a labour basket for mining operations and not as a region where people could live, work and prosper.

We are therefore interested to know how our brothers and sisters live in these mining provinces. We continually ask ourselves whether they have proper houses, whether they receive health services, whether they earn equitable salaries and whether they are able to send their children to school. To us these are fundamental questions because if the answer to these questions is no, then as a nation we are failing in our quest of creating a South Africa that is free from poverty, unemployment and inequality.


The sooner all parties gather and finalise the seemingly contentious Mining Charter, the better for the country. The mine bosses should be more responsive to the adoption of the charter than the communities and government, because the minerals they are mining belong to the people and government of South Africa. Therefore, the scarecrow of running to courts to stop the implementation of the charter should be viewed as an anti-transformation stance. As Minister Mantashe said, “They must understand that transformation and competitive growth will best serve the country when they happen in an environment of mining communities that feel and see the benefits of mining.”

We must applaud the Minister for the frank assessment of his own department as far as identifying weaknesses in operations is concerned. This means that we have a Minister who is not willing to sweep the dirt under the carpet to the detriment of our country.
Delays in issuing mining licences by officials in the department for “unsatisfactory reasons” means we have the wrong officials handling matters of national importance. If this persists, will we ever be able to fight the challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality in our country? I trust that the Minister and his leadership collective will put their foot down and rid this critical department of all the bad apples that are hampering service delivery.


In our province we are frustrated by the delays in the implementation of mega projects, which fall under the ambit of national government, that have the potential to create thousands of sustainable jobs for our citizens. One of these projects is around shale gas exploration. As a country, we must learn to walk the walk rather than talk the talk. Thus, we welcome the undertaking by the Minister that he will publish a notice, of terms of the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act, to invite comments from persons who may be materially and adversely affected by the decision of the three shale gas applications that are with the department. We hope that the process will not take more than three months, hon Minister, to complete.

It would be amiss of me to conclude my input to this important debate without touching on the issue of health and safety in our mines. Our mines and mining communities should be centres of economic prosperity not despair, hon Minister. But the conditions under which mining operations take place leaves a lot to be desired. Just this year, more than 33 mine workers have lost their lives.
Every effort and resource should be used to prevent accidents in our mines by mining companies, and government should step up its monitoring regime of health and safety standards in mines. On a daily basis, our brothers and sisters go underground alive - and they must come out alive.


With these few words, we would like to wish the Minister and his leadership collective all the best in their efforts to bring the mining industry back to its former glory of being the leading employment creator in South Africa.


Lo msebenzi niwunikiweyo unzima awuwafuni amabhetye-bhetye.


The realisation that “The people shall share in the country’s wealth,” as envisaged in the Freedom Charter, is now in your hands. You have accepted that we “send you” to take on this monumental task. Do not disappoint the expectations of the masses of our people.


Makubechosi. Siliphondo...


...we welcome the input of the Minister to this debate. We support the debate. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, I like the way you walk, hon Minister, the matters of mineral resources cannot be placed far away


from the matters of land reform that we were discussing yesterday in this House. These two are closely linked. The scramble for Africa by the European countries, the colonisation of Africa and the new imperialism during the 19th century was all about the land and the mineral resources of Africa. It was all because of the riches found in Africa such as palm oil, copper, diamond, gold, rubber, cocoa and many others.

At the Berlin conference in 1884-85, seven powerful European countries, divided the control of Africa amongst themselves to the total neglect of the Africans themselves. None of the countries of Africa were represented at that conference where the fate of Africa was decided. If there is one important thing that freedom and independence should do to the countries of Africa and its people, it is to reverse the objectives of that Berlin conference and make the resources of Africa be of benefit to the people of Africa. For as long as this has not yet happened, it is not yet Uhuru, Minister.
This is where the ANC has so far dismally failed the people of South Africa. The mineral resources of our country are still serving the objectives of the Berlin conference of 1884-85. In South Africa, the Great Trek in 1836 onwards, the Anglo Boer war in 1899 to 1902, was still a continuation of the scramble for resources and control of the land.


Let us look at the few black Africans who have so far made it into the control of the mining industry. They are the families, friends and connected favoured few, who by no means characterise the reversal of the wrongs of the past. In the essence of the animal farm, they represent the small community of the pigs and their friends who enjoy the limited benefits of liberation while the whole farm is suffering.

The story of the workers in the mining industry of our country is still a sordid one. Safety in the mines is still a pipe dream.
Salaries to the mineworkers have not improved. The working conditions of the mineworkers still tell the story of oppression. [Interjections.] The mineral resources of our country were used as a gateway to state capturing. The route to the looting of financial resources of the country at Eskom was through the likes of the
Gupta-owned Oakbay and Tageta. The route to looting the country through the never took off nuclear power deal would have been through the Gupta owned the likes of Oakbay and Tageta. Cabinet reshuffling was orientated into making it possible for government departments to toe the line of the state capturers. If you think that we are merely telling political stories with no substance, tell us where Minister Zwane is today? He was the head of the agents of state capturing in government, especially brought from the Free


State to national in order to deliver the minerals of our country to the Guptas and their friends

Hon Minister, you and your crew promised the country action on these matters. We haven’t seen any positive action, as yet. William Shakespeare in Julius Caesar has this to say about an ambition that does not fulfil its promises:

This a common proof, that lowliness is young ambition’s ladder; Whereto the climber-upward tums his face; But when he once attains the upmost round, He then unto the ladder turns his back, Looks in the clouds, scorning the base degrees. By which he did ascend.

If the statements by the Ramaphosa leadership, of which you are part, was not a mere politicking aimed at deposing President Zuma, then please prove this wrong and start doing the things you said you were going to do. I had never thought that the once mighty ANC could actually be like this. To be so tamed and so directionless and not know how to deal with transgressors.


Hhawu, goba msenge zidle izimbuzi! Ngiyathokoza. [Ihlombe.]


Ms K R PHUKUNTSI (Free State): Hon Chair, hon Minister, Members of the NCOP, good afternoon. Indeed Chairperson, I am from Free State and I am proud to be from Free State. We will continue to encourage a mining development pattern to reverse the spatial inequalities of the past. The mining industry remains. . .

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, don’t drown the speaker on the podium.

Ms K R PHUKUNTSI (Free State): Hon Chair, we are going to speak without fear or favour. The mining industry plays a critical role in the country. We welcome the input by the Minister and the willingness of the government to engage business and labour about saving and growing the sector. This needs to include an end to retrenchments, a plan to provide decent housing and a plan to reduce fatalities in accidents.

As I said when I started that the ANC-led government is actually trying to address the imbalances of the past, hence we are going to make sure that people have decent human settlements. We welcome the government’s commitment to reduce mine deaths and accidents.
However, government is silent on the mining jobs and it is shocking. Government need to intervene and assist those mineworkers with retraining and job placement programmes. We are asking what has


happened to government’s plan to support platinum and other mineral beneficiation programmes. We welcome the plan by the Minister but we need that plan to be more detail, especially addressing the issues of mining towns.

Hon Chair, we are also saying that in the programme that is going to be developed, the department must make sure that the mining houses are working together with the municipalities to make sure that all the programmes that they are developing are in line and addressing the gaps that are found in the Individual Development Plans, IDPs.

Our proposal today will be that the clear plan to save mining sector, including both beneficiations so much as the Minister has spoken to, but we still believe that there are those towns that have the potential to develop mining, health and safety plans to protect mineworkers, re-skilling and absorption plan for mineworkers. We didn’t come here only to raise these issues because we don’t want anybody to raise issues on our behalf. We are in government and we make sure that we speak for the people that have put us in place and we are going to make sure that everything that the Minister has raised and we also welcome that the Minister was in the Free State, especially in Welkom.


We also welcome that the issue of illegal mining is going to be addressed. We are also welcoming the fact that the issue of licensing is going to be sped up. We are also saying to the Minister that let us look into opportunities in Hennenman in Matjhabeng, whereby people were promised that there will be a mining in the form of coal.

Hon Chair, we are also saying that as the ANC we are welcoming the Budget Vote and we support it. We are making sure that our people will have a better life and not only to be making noise. The work of the ANC will be felt on the ground. I thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Order! Hon Chabangu you are protected.

Mr M M CHABANGU: Well protected, in good hands. Chairperson, Ministers present here, protocol observed. The mining industry in South Africa has exploited our country and our people for over 100 years, in the pursuit of profit. This has been at the expense of human life, our environment and the development of our country and people. After democracy many thought this would change, and the mining industry could be used as a tool to uplift our people and develop our economy, but 24 years later the same pattern of exploitation that existed 50 years ago continues till today.


This year 34 miners have died in mining related accidents. Our people are dying in the mines of Gauteng, Mpumalanga, North West, Limpopo, Northern Cape and not withstanding the Free State. In his state of the nation address at the beginning of the year, President Ramaphosa mentioned the deaths of miners, but government has done nothing to prevent these deaths. If we continue at this pace, there will be more mining related deaths than at any point in the last five years. These deaths are happening because mining companies are cutting corners in the implementation of safety measures, and the very department which is meant to be inspecting them has absolutely no capacity or will to do its job.

So, instead of officials inspecting mines for safety, the companies inspect themselves and simply do as they please, with the death of miners being of no consequence to them as long is does not affect the bottom line. This disregard for human life is also seen in the way miners are treated by the companies that employ them. They pay them slaves’ wages and house them in hostels, which often do not have proper access to water, electricity and sanitation while we have crime Ministers nowadays.

When miners use their constitutional right to protest this abuse, they are either ignored or killed like the miner workers of Marikana were six years ago. And till today the demands of those workers are


as relevant s they were six years ago. The Mineral Petroleum Resources Development Act, No 28 of 2002 speaks of social and labour plans and the obligations which mining companies are meant to fulfil, to the communities they are in, but in a period of only 5 months in 2017, 65 mines were found to have not fulfilled their Mining Social and Labour Plans which they committed to. But there has been no consequence for this, and the mining companies continue with their business while neglecting the communities whose resources they exploit.

This is the case in Limpopo, where locals are not employed, in Gauteng where mining companies poison water, and in the Northern Cape and Western Cape where mines damaging the health of people do nothing to assist the people in their healthcare needs. All of this is because government has made these plans optional and therefore difficult to enforce. But what did not help this department was the appointment of the corrupt Gupta stooge Mosebenzi Zwane. When he was appointed, we warned you that the man is captured and corrupt, but you defended him.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Chabangu, take your seat. Hon Mthimunye you are on your feet.



Mnu M M CHABANGU: Ufunani lo?


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Chabangu, take your seat.

Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Chair, I just wanted to check if it’s parliamentary to address a Member of Parliament as a stooge.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Chabangu, it is not parliamentary, would you please withdraw?

Mr M M CHABANGU: For the sake of ... [Interjections.] I withdraw.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you sir, please proceed. Order! Please proceed.

Mr M M CHABANGU: But what did not help this department was the appointment of the corrupt Gupta Mosebenzi Zwane. When he was appointed, we warned you that the man is captured and corrupt, but you defended him. Because of him, and his need to help the Gupta’s loot, mines in Mpumalanga were closed down, seeing thousands lose their jobs. The department has done nothing to rectify this, and the consequences of the corruption and mismanagement by Mosebenzi Zwane continue till today. But with him or without him, unless the logic of mining in this country changes from that of private ownership and


the pursuit of profit, to mines being owned by the state, so that they can serve a developmental role and provide jobs the problems of the mining industry will continue. That it is why Minister we reject this Budget Vote as the EFF. [Applause.]

Ms Z V NCITHA: Hon Chair, hon Minister and Deputy Minister present, our permanent delegates from provinces, those at the gallery and at home, good afternoon. The mining industry makes an enormous contribution to South African economy. It is one of the industries in which hundreds of thousands of workers are employed. Mining earns billions of rand in foreign exchange. Mineral exports have contributed around 30% of total merchandise exports annually and in 2017. This amounted to R307 billion earned in foreign currencies.
This allows the economy to import in exchange foreign-made consumer products and technologies that are essential for industrial development.

The sustainability of this industry is threatened by mining accidents, which frequently result in injuries or deaths of workers, destruction of property and pollution of the environment. In the past, mining accidents have led to the shutdown and threat of shutdown of mines and the possibility of the loss of thousands of jobs. The Lilly Mine accident in Mpumalanga where operations had to


be shut down after three female mineworkers were trapped after a seismic event is one of the most recent examples.

The results of a study of mining accident causality based on

91 accidents that occurred from 2010 to 2012 at the site of platinum mine in the North West Province were published in the Journal of Southern African Institute of Mining and Metallurgy in January 2017. The results showed that while routine violations of health and safety standards were the most common form of human error leading to 45% of all accidents analysed, problems in the physical environment of workers were the most common workplace factor – leading to 39,6% of all accidents analysed.

Furthermore, inadequate leadership was found to be the most common systemic factor responsible for 51,6% of all accidents analysed.
These results suggest that leading causes of mining accidents, routine violations, physical environment and inadequate leadership, can be mitigated by systematic action.

The Minister of Mineral Resources last month called for mine management to pay closer attention to the safety and protection of workers instead of chasing production. The Minister was reacting to the death of seven workers at Sibanye-Stillwater’s Driefontein operation where a total of 13 workers were trapped underground


following an accident/seismic event. Early this year, 955 miners were temporarily trapped at another Sibanye-Stillwater mine in Welkom, after an electric cable outage during a storm. Fortunately, all the workers were rescued safely.

It is important to get historical perspective on the safety record in the mining industry as we engage in this debate. In 1994, when the ANC came into government, 484 mineworkers died in mining accidents. The number has been falling consistently over the years to an all-time low of 73 in 2016.

Mine employment also fell in this period – from just over 600 000 to about 450 000. But the rate of fatalities fell from an average of eight deaths per 10 000 people to 1,6 per 10 000 mineworkers employed. From 2017 there seems to be an up-trend with the deaths of
76 mineworkers that has continued into the first two quarters of 2018. By the middle of May 2018, 31 workers had lost their lives due to mining accidents, again.

The purpose of Programme 2 of this vote: Promotion of Mine Health and Safety, is,“To ensure the safe mining of minerals under healthy working conditions”. The capacity of the department to carry out this mandate needs to be augmented. There were 278 out of 303 posts in the mine health and safety inspection unit that were filled by


the end of 2017-18. We are concerned that this number of employees is planned to fall to 271 by 2019-20, while we note that the salary bill will grow by 7,3% each year.

We understand that this is partly because learner inspectors have been moved to higher salary grades. Eight thousand health and safety inspections and 396 audits are to be commissioned in 2018-19, the same number as in the previous financial year. In the light of the increase in the number of fatal accidents noted in 2017 and the first two quarters of 2018, the ANC calls on the department to find ways to enhance the work of ensuring better health and safety outcomes in the mining industry. I hope the Minister is listening.

The Department of Mineral Resources Annual Performance Plan for 2017-18 identified the amendment Bill to the Mine Health and Safety Act 29 of 1996 as one of the department’s legislative policy priorities. We urge the Minister to ensure that this Bill is brought before parliament before the end of this financial year.

Under the South African environmental laws for mining, directly implemented with funds from this Budget Vote, mining companies are required to improve environmental stewardship. Through the social and labour plans approved and monitored by the Department of Mineral Resources, DMR, mining companies are required to consult with


communities on mine impacts and to boost the local economy through providing jobs and purchasing South African stores, capital goods and services.

As the ANC we believe that mining companies that fail to follow the law in these respects must know that they put their operations at risk in the short to long term. This Budget Vote goes beyond ticking the boxes in terms of legislation; it actively requires the mining, oil and gas sectors to contribute to many of the 17 United Nations’ agreed Sustainable Development Goals, SDGs. The SDGs include: No poverty; zero hunger; good health and well-being for people; sustainable cities and communities; and climate action.

The Mine Health and Safety Council which is supported by a transfer from the department and also supported by levy income from the mining companies must step up its work in support of the department’s efforts. The ANC believes that the department needs to rigorously enforce, monitor and evaluate compliance with mine health and safety legislation and tougher action must be taken against those companies that violate safety standards. I, therefore, as ANC support the Budget Vote. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms B A SCHAFER: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of the NCOP, Councillors, ladies and gentlemen. Good afternoon. The


strength of the South African mining sector is the strength of the South African economy and the lifeblood of South African employment. With such an important industry in the hands of national government, it remains government’s responsibility to create a flourishing mining sector which promotes mining as an area of industrial expertise in South Africa, as well as a crucial opportunity to uplift our people. This is precisely why the South African Mining Charter is so important because it protects mining in the interests of transformation and redress, while simultaneously protecting the South Africa’s economy to which mining contributes 8% of the national gross domestic product, GDP.

Why is it then that the mining sector lost a staggering fifty thousand mining jobs over the past year? The answer lies in the appointment of the former Gupta-linked Minister of Mineral Resources, Mosebenzi Zwane, who sought to turn the South African mining industry into a money laundering scheme for the Gupta-linked ANC elite.

Under the Minister Zwane, we saw the third iteration of the mining charter gazetted, a piece of proposed legislation so bad that it knocked R51 billion of JSE-listed mining stocks and prompted the Minerals Council of South Africa to seek a court review to have the document set aside. While the Mining Charter’s purpose is the


protection and preservation of the vitality of South African mining, it also serves to gradually transform skewed ownership patterns within the mining sector.

The former Minister’s flaw in this regard, was to draft a Mining Charter so overly ambitious in its goals that it became virtually unattainable without inflicting immense damage to the sector. The transformation of the mining sector is absolutely crucial, but if this process is not treated delicately and with due process, it threatens to implode the entire mining industry altogether.

Our new Minister of Mineral Resources, Gwede Mantashe, has committed to presenting a draft of the new Mining Charter to industry bodies before it is presented to Cabinet and gazetted. I trust, however, that the Minister is able to present a Mining Charter which appeals to the Minerals Council of South Africa, without pandering to the ANC’s constituency.

We know that the ANC’s priority is winning back the votes it shed under its self-imposed Zuma administration and we know that many of these voters rely on what the ANC thinks is good for mining but despite the concerns raised by the Minerals Council of South Africa, the Minister must listen to the needs of the industry and not pander to the needs of his own party. Whether he chooses to place the ANC


above the prosperity of South Africans remains to be seen once the new Mining Charter is gazetted. But the signs of the ANC placing itself before the people are already evident in the mining sector.

The long-delayed inquiry into State Capture in the Department of Mineral Resources was set to begin on the 30th May 2018. However, Parliament threw cold water on it by refusing to provide a Budget. In fact, some members of the ANC on the portfolio committee have suggested that the inquiry be shut down. While Jacob Zuma may no longer be President, those willing to do his bidding in this department, have yet to be held accountable.

In the lead up to election year, the ANC should focus less on repairing its tattered reputation in a post-Zuma disaster and commit to holding corrupt cadres to account. How can the Department of Mineral Resources continue to function when the officials responsible for its demise have yet to be rooted out? The Minister can no longer sweep this matter under the carpet to suit his party. He must commit to serving the interests of the South African people and the mining sector at large.

With all due respect, I am very sceptical of this department’s ability to uphold its promises and deliver on its mandate. We have seen in the Western Cape that mining legislation which should


protect local mining communities has been flouted. This legislation states that mining companies seeking to acquire rights from the National Department of Mineral Resources must submit a Social Labour Plan, SLP, as part of their request for acquisition. The Social Labour Plan according to the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act 28 of 2002 is a means to correct historical injustice and support mine workers by making it mandatory for mining companies to undertake community projects to uplift communities in the vicinity of the mine. We have seen that in the Western Cape, this legislation has not been enforced by the department to the detriment of many of our rural mining communities.

The Australian Company by the name of Mineral Commodities Resources, acquired mining rights with a five year lease from the National Department in 2014, to mine along the coast of the Western Cape’s Matzikama Municipality. Four and a half years later, as this company’s lease is set to expire, the Matzikama Municipality along with the Xolobeni community have complained that no community upliftment projects have been undertaken by this company. In fact, the communities claim they have received no communication from the mine whatsoever, despite several attempts to reach out.

A report released by Oxfam last month, shockingly revealed that the company acquired the rights to mine in 2012, but the Department of


Mineral Resources only signed off on its Social Labour Plan two years later in 2014. This is in complete contravention of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act. Only once workers put down tools for a 6-week-long strike in 2015, did the mining company finally commit to completing the Koekenaap Resource Centre, which was not even the flagship project outlined in the SLP.

The Oxfam reports further states and I quote:

“MSR’s attitude towards community development is driven largely by considerations related far more to political decisions around public participation and perception and economic decisions around cost minimisation, than to any genuine commitment to the community within which they operate”.

The question really to be asked is how is the Department of Mineral Resources allowing foreign companies to essentially pillage our country’s resources without upskilling or giving back to local South African communities? This is not even the most concerning part of this story. The research indicates that the Western Cape has the highest incidents of non-compliance with 87% of mine operations not abiding by their SLPs. Is this information pure chance, or is there a dedicated scheme by the ANC to deliberately undermine rural communities in the Western Cape through mining activity for


political gain? If the latter is true, it points to a blatant disregard for the people of South Africa by this department to taint the image of the DA-led Western Cape.

Might I remind the Minister, that the provinces have no mandate over mining rights or their operations? This responsibility rests solely with the National Department of Mineral Resources. Why then, would the national department allow the prevalence of mining non- compliance to spike in our province alone? Is this perhaps again a deliberate move by the department against a province that is not ANC run, and is the ANC aware of the catastrophic effect this has on the rural mining communities in the Western Cape who are left out in the cold by this department? This question must be answered.

It is the responsibility of the National Department of Mineral Resources to protect, preserve, and transform the mining sector as an integral part of the South African industry, able to create the necessary employment and social upliftment for our people. The revised Mining Charter, which will be gazetted later this month, should reflect these values at its core. This department also has a responsibility to ensure that foreign mining permits are awarded under the condition that foreign mining activity upskills South Africans people, and provides for our mining communities.


It is indeed very worrying that mining permits are acquired irregularly and at such a high rate in the Western Cape Province. The Minister Mantashe must address this, as a matter of urgency, as the people of the Western Cape are not benefitting from the mining activity taking place right on our doorstep.

The Minister must also ensure that the inquiry into state capture in the Department of Mineral Resources is allowed to continue unhindered. We all know that the only way to overcome injustices and mismanagement in the mining sector is through sound and dedicated policy. I trust that the new Mining Charter will pave the way for the prosperous mining industry South Africa deserves. I thank you.

Cllr M P HLUNGWANI (SALGA): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Mineral Resources, hon members, ladies and gentlemen.

Hon Minister on behalf of the South African Local Government Association, Salga let me take this opportunity to congratulate you on your induction as a Member of Parliament and indeed also as on your appointment as the Minister of Mineral Resources. We welcome you. [Applause.]

Chairperson, I am certain that you will agree with us that, South Africa with her large mineral deposits should consider herself very


fortunate; that minerals, like any other asset, are part of the natural capital of our country and therefore should contribute to our collective wealth and the economic vibrancy of many of our municipalities and communities where extractive industries are situated.

With that view, mining activities can extract economic value from latent wealth in the form of underground mineral deposits, so it could be converted into business, education, infrastructure and other various forms of capital that directly contribute to economic development.

Of importance for us as a country to ponder, is how far has our natural gift adequately contributed to all of the above potential benefits from this sector? In order to ensure that this does happen we promulgated sound legislative instruments, hon Minister.

The Minerals and Petroleum Resources Development Act as amended makes provision for equitable access to and sustainable development of our mineral and petroleum resources sector.

The preamble of the Act, amongst others affirms that the state’s obligation to protect the environment for the benefit of present and future generations, to ensure ecologically sustainable development


of mineral and petroleum resources and to promote economic and social development.

It further recognizes the need to promote local and rural development and the social upliftment of communities. The Act in sections 23 and 24 prescribes the development and implementation of the social and labour plans as part of the prerequisites for the granting of the mining rights.

It prescribes that during the drafting of the SLP, and the affected communities must also be consulted including the local, district and provincial government as well as Labour sending areas.

Hon Minister and members, in our understanding, this is in sync with the Municipal Systems Act, which provides as its core objective the provision of mechanisms and processes that are necessary, to enable municipalities to move progressively towards the social and economic upliftment of the local communities, and also to ensure universal access to essential services that are affordable to all of us.

In terms of this Act, the IDP is described as the planning instrument which guides and informs all planning and development and all decisions with regards to planning, management and development in a municipality.


The IDP as an integrative planning instrument based on the community needs, which would have been established through public participation remains the primarily tool which all of us including the Mining Houses led by the Departments of Mineral Resources must be used to ensure that there is sufficient integration.

Accordingly, we want to make an urgent call to you hon Minister to work with us in this regard. The starting point as already was initiated by your predecessor will be to establish a structured IGR mechanism for the three spheres of government to plan together, and collectively ensure a coherent oversight and monitoring of compliance towards ensuring that our natural resources do not become a curse as it is the case in many parts of our country and the world.

Hon Chairperson, in addition to the integrated planning, we must all recognise that the environmental degradation emanating from the mining operations has a direct impact on the immediate mining communities and municipalities.

The effects may be spread to other regions especially in the case of water catchments and air pollution. Degraded environments have a direct adverse effect on the health of the people and therefore the general wellbeing our citizens.


The importance of a shared understanding in this regard, places more emphasis on the need to be holistic in our approach both in terms of measuring the actual economic value derived from these industries as well as the net cost to the economy with respect to pollutions, environmental degradation and the provision of health.

Hon members, as Salga we welcome efforts shown by some of the mining houses to promote local economic development by implementing programmes focused on small enterprise development, through local procurement, venture capital, bridging finance, provision of loan facilities, joint ventures as well as investment in programmes to improve the well-being our people.

We are also pleased with the emerging innovative partnership between some mining houses with municipalities to develop drought detection capabilities as well as water preservation.

These interventions are an appropriate response to the inherent challenges imposed on municipalities through establishment of mining operations in various parts of the country.

We want to use this opportunity to inform you that our constrained infrastructure budgets are severely affected by heavy duty trucks


which transport minerals and related materials; and as such these municipalities spend more resources to maintain their roads.

In this regard, as Salga, we would like to engage to find the best amicable dispensation to address this challenge. We all know hon members, that mining activity brings with it issues such as influx of migrant labour, the proliferation of informal settlements, the rapidly expanding needs for basic services, and housing needs, amongst others.

These are major challenges for local government and have been known to lead to public discontent and protest actions at a local level.

Hon members of the NCOP, we want to make an urgent call to this House and indeed the Minister to join our efforts towards small town’s regeneration and indeed to create an appropriate dispensation to as much as possible reduce the risk of small mining towns degenerating in future, as the hon Minister has already alluded to.

It is therefore essential through this joint effort, to reconcile the objectives and practicalities of mining legislation with the municipal integrated development and land use planning and management systems. The latter will serve as an enabler to the


effective administration of Social Labour Plans as enablers of sustainable local economies.

Lastly, in order to redress the inherited complexities of colonial and apartheid spatial planning, there are systematic issues that require all spheres of government to work collaboratively to ensure that our government functions as coherent system machinery. I thank you hon Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chair, hon Ministers, members in the public and the public at large. Hon Minister, I have a few questions for you today. Firstly, mining has the opportunity to stimulate the economy and to create jobs that we need in this country. I am coming from the municipality called Mogalakwena or specifically the town of Mokopane or as we call it Potties Kasi Ya Manyora. [Laughter.]

So, we want to know, when will the Flag Boshielo Water Project be finalised? So that the town can come to its full potential because it is haltering the growth – it’s haltering all the development that could happen there. We have the richest Platreef within the world in that specific municipality.

Minister, there are serious problem with the issuing of exploration and mining rights and it is in question - the interdepartmental


communication between mineral resources, environmental affairs as well as Integrated Development Plan, IDP source of local municipalities. I want to know Minister; how it happened that exploration rights were issued to Volspruit mine in an extremely sensitive ecosystem of the Nylsvlei river system?

Minister, the mines should focus on mining. Yes, they should submit their social labour plans but their responsibility is to make sure that they mine – that’s their focus. Government should do their part and day job to make sure that those communities are looked after.
But we set to have a serious problem here, you see, it takes two to tango. Corruption does not come from one side. It is the politicians and some tribal leaders that are selling out the communities for self enrichment. I want to give you an example; there’s quite a few allegations going around.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Smit, please take your seat. Hon Mthethwa, you are on your feet. Yes sir [Eya ntate.]

Mr J M MTHETHWA: I am rising on a point of order


Mr J M MTHETHWA: You can’t say ...


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Address him through me

Mr J M MTHETHWA: You can’t say the traditional leaders are collaborating with politicians to do corruption without a substantive motion for that.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you. Hon Smit ... [Interjections.] No order! Hon members let me Rule. Perhaps you want to rephrase or qualify what you are saying.

Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chair, I said there are quite few allegations going around – yes I did. Can I continue hon Chair?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Order! The two gentlemen - one very dark - one very bright. Hon Smit, can I just understand you are saying that you are adding that there are allegations?

Mr C F B SMIT: Yes

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can we accept it and continue with the debate please?

Mr C F B SMIT: Thank you Chair. One of the allegations is in Mzombane village next to the Ivanplats mine that at one moment their


license was withheld and then suddenly two months later, their license was issued. Now Minister, this is allegation that directs to you. We want to know because people are saying in Mogalakwena; a family member of yours got shares in that specific mine. Can you come and defend yourself on that?

If we look at the grey water contract that was signed between Anglo platinum and Mogalakwena local municipality, at 37 cents per kilo litre for 30 years at six mega litres a day, with no escalation, well the latest prize to process grey water is at R7 20, where the normal of that municipality have to sponsor the mine. Again for another allegation of the previous Minister Ramatlhodi, whose family member also got R20 million with of shares. Minister, the problem is that ... [Interjections.] Can I be protected Chair?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are protected

Mr C F B SMIT: Thank you. Let me assist you EFF because ... [Interjections.] You see, the only reason the EFF ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Order! Hon members don’t drown the member. [Interjections.] Don’t drown him, he is on the podium. Hon Smit, please continue. [Interjections.]


Mr C F B SMIT: The only reason the EFF wants to nationalise all the mines is because they can’t wait to get their hands on all those lucrative tenders and contracts. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There is a point of order. However, be warned hon Mokwele that his time has expired. [Interjections.] His time has expired. [Interjections.]

Mr C F B SMIT: I now ...


... tshama hansi.


Ms T J MOKWELE: The only reason we want to nationalise them is because we want to take whatever was taken ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! [Interjections.] Hon Mokwele take your seat, that is not a point of order. [Interjections.] We are proceeding ... Order! [Interjections.] Hon Parkies [Interjections.] Order!

Mr J P PARKIES: Chair, let’s appreciate the opportunity and respect the Chairperson of the Council, hon members, Ministers present and


Deputy Ministers, South Africa is a country which is an important partner and participant in the global conditions in the context of the 4th Industrial Revolution and the global integration at economic level.

The process of industrialisation is real and we should give impetus to our country to grab the opportunity to deal with the structure of our economy. The state capacity to deliberately support localisation and beneficiation and contribute to intra African trade ... We are in 20 years, we need to be aggressive on localisation and beneficiation of our natural resources.

The new growth path remains an important element as an element and strategy designed to shift the trajectory of our economic development and while the Industrial Policy Action Plan seeks to guide the process of reindustrialisation of our South African economy.

It is general knowledge that our country and continent possesses natural resources, which includes strategic minerals, like steel, platinum, coal, shale gas and also minerals for structural development, like steel, copper and cement. Therefore, state intervention for focused beneficiation must be realised while also


engaging and initiating labour intensive projects to create jobs and preserve jobs.

Chairperson, just caution me when I am left with four minutes. Competitive pricing for strategic resources, hon Minister, is so much important and is also associated with targeted management of export of minerals and integrated value with the intention to fortify strategic value chain, this remains an important element.

It is our constant view that minerals extraction should never compromise the health conditions of our communities nor the quality of our environment. Some of us, hon Minister, from where we stand, have a view that says some mining companies deliberately disregard the conditions and lives of our people. This is precisely why we will argue and put forward an argument that says our people must be considered and that we must engage in a process that seeks to uplift our people. We have a sacred duty to protect the lives of ordinary people.

The issue that relates to labour and social plans is one that we need to elevate with your department. The last engagement we had with your department, I said to the officials: Whenever they come to Parliament, they must know that I am going to raise that issue a thousand times as long as I am a member of this particular


institution. A classical example is Madibeng Municipality where there are 15 mining companies operating in that locality but the conditions of our people and the infrastructure aren’t there. When you engage the management and ask to go and see the projects that they are talking about. I can confidently tell you that we found none of those projects.

This is an issue that we want to elevate, which must be coupled with internal capacity. The state of the nation address in 2014 asserted that, we will promote employee and community share ownership schemes and boost the participation of black entrepreneurs in the reindustrialisation of our country. Allow me to quote the January 8th statement of the ANC and I quote:

The transformation of our economy to serve the interests of all our people requires the ANC that will mobilise all sectors of our society behind a national agenda for accelerated and shared growth.

While the Strategy and Tactics Document 2012 recognises that the strategic objective or priority of this phase of democratic revolution is and I quote: “To rid the country of the vestiges of apartheid colonialism.”


The ownership and control of wealth and efficient forms of production and management is critical in this phase of our revolution so that we could be better positioned to deal with tormenting poverty, unemployment and social inequality and fight vivacious exploitation of mineworkers. More space and opportunity ought to be better articulated for the benefit of the society for young people in particular, in the field of engineering and science.

It is a well-known fact that the imperialists are continuing the attitude and behaviour in Africa with their foisted civil wars to conspire our natural resources. We need to punish recalcitrant capital parsimonious markets. This can happen when and with revved efficiency in our state institutions – state efficiency and effectiveness to regulate the market becomes very much important.

We need strong willed state officials in the phase of new opportunities and calamitous risk. We deplore the recklessness of the bosses on the health and safety of our workers. These include sexual abuse of women in this sector we are talking about today.

Whilst the DA says they are going to create free enterprises with private business ... Our members and members of the society must know and understand that the DA, as a political organisation is an


embodiment of deviousness reeled in the face of temperance fired by instigation of western imperialism and its foisted ideas and values.

We will continue expose the lies of the DA. We will never abnegate our public responsibility on liberal ideas and the plank that hold and encase their institutions.

We want to support all positive elements and achievements that we have recorded since 1994 in this sector. We just need to deal with internal state capacity to enforce and monitor our laws in this sector. The private sector in our land cannot do as they wish when we have progressive laws that are designed to protect, uplift and impose positive effect on the life of our people. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Chairperson, I see my Cabinet colleague, Ms Nomaindia Mfeketo, here. One cannot answer all the questions in five minutes, but let me start with a few. I want to start with characterising mining as an industry. It is a depleting industry. Once you have a mineral deposit, you start mining, and it has a day to start and a day to end. Therefore, on the question of the decline of old mines, particularly gold mines, it cannot be stopped because those minerals are exploited and they are finished.


The second character of the industry is that mining is dirty, dangerous, difficult and diseased. If we take that into account, we will rather developed strategies to deal with this character of the industry, than crying foul, as if we got into mining not knowing that.

I must say to Salga that in all the 11 regional meetings that we held, municipalities were present. Therefore, in those meetings, we accepted the importance of social and labour plans, SLPs, talking to IDPs. Again, there is a possibility for municipalities to engage mining companies.

Let me answer a few questions that have been directed to me. When you talk about mining and environment, you must always remember that sustainable development talks to that matter. So, you will have to refer to it. So, you don’t stop mining but you do it in a way that does not destroy the environment. As you do that, you are protecting the benefits of future generations. That is quite important because if you don’t understand that, you will always ask why there is a mine and water.

The second one is, Ivanplats is a Canadian company and you would appreciate that I am coming from Cala and not from Canada. So, this


... [Interjections.] No, wait listen. The shareholding of Ivanplats, having interacted with them twice since I took office, ...

Mr F ESSACK: Chairperson, I just want to ask, through you, if the Minister will take a question.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Minister, will you take a question?

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: I am answering questions. I am not going to take questions now. So, having met Ivanplats two times since I took office, my understanding is that Ivan Ivanplats holds 20% shares in the Community Trust, which is an issue to be investigated further. Only 6% goes to black shareholders who are local and known. So, this allegation that a family of the Minister has shares there is frivolous.

Let me go further to talk to the question of water projects. I think that falls under the Department of Water and Sanitation. Mining, water and sanitation and environment work together. What we are discussing with those Ministers is how best we can work together in dealing with those issues. We have taken into account all the issues that have been raised.


I want to deal with one last issue before I sit down. My five minutes are almost finished. The IFP talks about this mighty ANC that they never believed would be in the state it is. I want to congratulate them to appreciate the fact that they are led by a member of the ANC who never resigned, Chief Buthelezi. He is a member of the ANC who never resigned. He is in arrears. So, they must be worried about the state of the ANC. [Laugher.]

With regard to the state mining company, mining and what it is doing in South Africa is what we are all about. That is why we want to finish the Mining Charter. Let me give you the sequences of events. We are going to finish the Mining Charter. By next week, we will be done with the drafting. Then we are going to publish for public comments. Then we will go to a summit. Then we will go to the Ministerial processes, which involves the Cabinet. Once that happens, we will gazette the Charter, which a not a Charter of the Chamber, as the DA wishes. It is the Charter of the country and we will implement it. [Applause.]


(Policy debate)

Debate on Vote No 38 – Human Settlements:


The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson of the NCOP, chairperson and members of the select committee, the Deputy Minister of Human Settlements, hon members, MECs and MMCs both present and in absentia, councillors, Cllr Sotashe, Salga representatives here with us today, Director-general and officials of the Department of Human Settlements, board members and executives of entities affiliated to the Department of Human Settlements, and distinguished guests, thank you for the opportunity to present the Human Settlements Budget Vote for 2018-19 on the centenary of Nelson Mandela and Albertina Sisulu.

I have fond memories of the NCOP from my days as a member of Salga. We interacted with this House about the powers and roles of different spheres of government. I am happy to be back here in this House as Minister of Human Settlements. You can be assured of the great value I attach to the co-operation between the spheres of government. I believe now, as I did then, that the National Council of Provinces is most instrumental in the line of monitoring and oversight to ensure that the interests of our people are served.

We all know that, at the heart of restoring dignity to the poorest of our people, is human settlements. Informal settlement continues to mark the suffering of our people. Rapid migration patterns and slow economic growth have posed further challenges to our ability to deliver effectively, as we are chasing a moving target and have to


do more with less. I see this clearly as I visit communities that are affected by wildfires, pressures of landlessness, and, unfortunately, a chain of corruption and maladministration that affect the poor. This is one of the reasons that I presented the Golden Era of Human Settlements Expansion as this year’s theme. One of the cardinal pillars of the Golden Era of Human Settlements Expansion is building formidable institutions. I commit to start with the national department to set the example. I continually engage with provinces and municipalities collectively through Minmec, as well as a one-on-one basis to deal with specific issues in communities.

For the 2018-19 financial year, Parliament appropriated an amount R32,3 billion to the Department of Human Settlements. The amount of R31,3 billion is allocated as grant funding and transfers. It is divided between provinces, municipalities and Human Settlements entities. A total of R18,1 billion is allocated as grants to all provinces, and R11,3 billion totals the grants to metropolitan municipalities, with R1,1 billion allocated to the Human Settlements entities. These funds are meant for the provision of sustainable human settlements, bulk infrastructure, as well as public amenities. It further funds land assembly in order to build integrated social housing to undo the apartheid spatial planning where our diverse people will live with each other, side by side, in prime-located


areas, close to economic opportunities to build safe and prosperous communities. [Interjections.]

We call on an active citizenry and nongovernmental organisations, NGOs, to work on community-driven solutions in continuous consultative, vibrant networks. We need to share ideas on our mutual area of work towards inclusive and collective solutions that include integrated and sustainable human settlements. Next month, I will host an indaba with civil society organisations to bring this idea to life. A sum of R140 million is set aside for emergency housing for municipalities, whilst R260 million is provided to provinces for the same purpose. We urge efficient use of this emergency fund to alleviate the plight of our people in the face of unfortunate circumstances such as fires, floods and other natural disasters.

An amount of R787,6 million is allocated to the national department for operational expenditure and for employee compensation. We have R518,6 million for the title deeds restoration grant. We hope all three spheres of government will prioritise this area, as it is the surest way to create security of tenure for our people. We know of cases where families live in houses for decades without the security of a title deed, and I will work with municipalities and provinces to fast-track the provision of title deeds this year. I will personally oversee this, as I did in Delft last month. I will be


doing the same across the length and breadth of the country this year.

For the 2018-19 budget, we have also ring-fenced R1 billion for the informal settlements upgrading programme, bulk infrastructure extension, and spatial consolidation in municipalities. We stand ready to invite the private sector, in particular in mining, to match our efforts to improve the development of communities in mining towns. Over R900 million is apportioned for the finance- linked individual subsidy programme to support workers earning less than R15 000 per month to access home loans. We continue to call on banks to help increase access to home loans in order to close the gap for this important sector of workers across all industries.

Having outlined some key aspects of the 2018-19 budget, it is important to reflect on the capacity and ability of provinces and municipalities to deliver on the constitutional mandate of Human Settlements. As I said earlier when speaking of the cardinal pillars of the Golden Era of Human Settlements Expansion, building formidable institutions becomes paramount. This also extends to provinces, municipalities and the Human Settlements entities. It is both sad and frustrating that provinces and municipalities are not spending their allocations and therefore fail to meet their targets. This is one of the things that makes Human Settlements a moving


target because the following year, you have a greater need with even less money, and this leads to endless service delivery-related protests.

To mitigate some of these problems, the national department has repositioned the Housing Development Agency to assist with delivery imperatives in provinces and municipalities. My department has initiated interventions to improve implementation and delivery in the provinces of Limpopo, Gauteng and North West, as well as Nelson Mandela Bay and Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipalities.
Metropolitan municipalities are integral in our delivery, yet we continue having funds returned from metropolitan municipalities to the national fiscus. We call on mayors and MMCs to turn this situation around.

There are some general challenges affecting all provinces and municipalities. They include, amongst others, backlogs and growth of backyard dwellers, township registry that impacts title deed distribution, beneficiary relocations, disputes and deceased estates, timely enrolling of houses with National Home Builders Registration Council, NHBRC, quality assurance, alleged collusion of contractors and inspectors, and beneficiary prioritisation of younger beneficiaries over the elderly and disabled people.


We rely on the NCOP to help tighten accountability at the provincial and municipal levels. I can say in this House, without fear of contradiction, that the success or failure of the national department depends on the performance of provinces and


Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Chair, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, hon members, special delegates, allow me to congratulate the Minister for her appointment in this important portfolio of housing the nation and commit that she has full support from the committee.

Hon Chair, it will also be appropriate that we dedicate this budget to two outstanding and extraordinary people this country ever had, whose lives was dedicated to ensure that lives of our poor, especially the poor is better than yesterday — that there is peace, justice and equality for all. They expected no material gains, but to serve the people. Those individuals ...




... bekuboMake Albertina Nonsikelelo kanye naBabe Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela. Siyayibonga kakhulu imisebenti yenu lemihle, sesilapha lapho sikhona nje lamuhla ...


... is because of what you contributed for this country. I also hon Chair, want to remember the young people who died in this month, whose lives was brutally taken by the apartheid regime just for fighting for the rights that we all enjoy today. We really appreciate their efforts.

Chairperson, one wonders if they were still alive how much contribution they would have made for this country if they were able to give up their lives for us to be free today.

Hon Chairperson, housing is a contentious political issue in our country.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): The hon member Mokwele and hon member Koni? Continue hon Dlamini.

Ms L C DLAMINI: I was checking on my time. I was saying housing is a contentious political issue in our country. The world can be divided


into two, those countries where the nation is comfortably housed, and those where housing is part of a daily struggle for survival.

Most countries in Africa, including South Africa, falls into the latter and this is a reflection of the challenges we face to ensure that our people do indeed enjoy a better life. Chairperson, these were the words of the late former President Nelson Mandela. He further said, for housing is not neutral. Our own country has in the past known only too well how the provision and non-provision of houses can be used as a form of social and political control.

Here and elsewhere, it has often been the means of dealing with urban and rural poor to hide them, evict them, harass them and trample on their self-esteem. This is very true here in the Western Cape where the DA is in government.

Chairperson and House, it pains me that every day when I drive in and out of Cape Town. You will see people sleeping under the bridges, some in between the roads without blankets in cold weathers of Cape Town. We have raised this, Chair. If you will go back to your Hansard, it is there in my speeches since 2014 but nobody seems to be attending into that. Those people are sleeping under the bridges as I speak.


Sometimes when we went to Taking Parliament to the People in Slang Rivier, we were told that houses are given to the members of the DA only. I am just confirming the statement that I made earlier.

When we were mobilising for January 8, we were asking the people around Khayelitsha that why some informal settlements do not have services, especially electricity and some do have. We were told that only those who are members of the DA are given services. Those who did not have services where refusing to join the DA. That is how housing is used to control people in terms of political affiliation.

In Stil Bay, we were also told that the Khoisan people were removed away from the city to far areas where they use truck once a month to come to town and access services because ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Dlamini, please take your seat! Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, you are standing.

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chairperson, I am rising on a point of order!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the point of order?


Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: The hon Chairperson of my Select Committee is misleading the House. All what she is saying is misleading the public. No services are allocated in the Western Cape to the DA members. She is misleading the public.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Sihbukwana, please take your seat. Hon Sibhukwana, I am going to request you not to debate from your chair. Continue, hon member Dlamini.

Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Chair, on 8 May 2018, the City of Cape Town Councillor Brett Herron, testified in court in a case involving evictions from Albert Road, Woodstock, that the city will no longer make use of Blikkiesdorp as a temporary relocation area, TRA. Instead, the city is opting Wolwerivier for those in crisis, including evictions.

Accordingly, the city is currently looking at sites for transitional and social housing, with the intention to make new transitional housing available by 2019. The area concern that they are considering now is exactly what I said earlier that people who are staying there are saying the nearest city bus stop is about
10 kilometres away, meaning that they have been removed from the town as we planned to bring people closer to where they work.


The nearest train station is 15 kilometres away; Melkbos clinic is

10 kilometres away; Dunoon Clinic is about 12 kilometres away; schools are out of reach; roads are gravel, no shops and the only local clinic comes once a week. I don’t know where the misleading comes from because these are the facts, hon Chair. I am raising concerns that are affecting our people in terms of housing.

Hon Chair, year in year out when I debate human settlement, I always start my debate by paying condolences to people who have lost their lives on fires, especially in Cape Town. Informal settlements are there all over the country, but in Cape Town, we all can see them.
They are more than in any other city of this country. There have a number of people who had been killed on fires.

During the first part of 2018, several informal settlement fires were already reported in Cape Town, with the largest reported in Site 5, Du Noon Informal Settlement. On 13 March 2018, a raging fire which devastated the community displaced about 500 people, who lost all their possessions.

Informal settlements are particularly vulnerable to community-wide infernos due to the density of such areas. All what we are saying is that as a plan, they must take note of those people who are staying in informal settlements. We are saying Cape Town don’t seem to be


taking cognisance of those people because if they did, when they were now dealing with the land that they use for development, they could have accommodated informal settlements.

Lately, the worst informal settlement fire in the City of Cape Town history occurred during March 2017 at Imizamo Yethu. About 4 500 structures were ablazed and approximately 15 000 residents were affected

It would appear that restoring services to informal settlements after their fires is a problem. It takes longer because people ended up protesting to the city for services which were not restored.

The department has intensified its efforts to ensure that Human Settlements Grants are utilised over the medium term for the purpose of prioritising and benefiting poor households. This has been achieved through the provision of access to basic services to approximately 260 households living in informal settlements. We appreciate that hon Minister, but we are also saying provinces must prioritise. That’s why we are raising these issues, not to expose them but on behalf of the people.

At the centre of government's strategic agenda for creating sustainable human settlements is the need for policies that are able


to transform the space economy. Therefore, the review of housing policies and the development of new policies and programmes require specific attention.

In line with the National Development Plan, NDP, proposals to restructure towns and cities, the department approved a total of about 47 catalytic projects which will serve as a vehicle to drive spatial transformation and benefit those in the low and affordable housing submarkets.

During 2016-17, the department delivered a total of approximately

148 000 housing opportunities comprised of top structures and services sites which benefited poor household, the majority of whom are elderly citizens, women and child-headed families.

A further 19 058 housing opportunities were delivered through the Urban Settlements Development Grant. These include the provision of basic services to households in informal settlements which means, for this Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, period, by 2017,
260 970 households have benefited from the informal settlements upgrading processes.

One of the priorities of the department is the provision of shelter to poor and vulnerable groups. That is why we call upon all


provinces to ensure that they comply with this, unlike where people prioritised tourist over the poor people of this country.

The department has in the past year provided approximately 90 000 houses from the Human Settlements Development Grant, HSDG, to poor in the subsidy market, prioritising the elderly women and child- headed households.

In addition, municipalities were provided with technical support and

283 feasibility assessments were conducted to determine the suitability of the areas. As you know, hon Chair, that some of the municipalities do not have capacity so the department has done that. We welcome that to the Minister. It would not help that you give houses and they are not build because of the services.

During an oversight visit in KwaZulu-Natal in 2017, the Select Committee on Social Services visited Zamani transit camp and was disheartened to see the living conditions of the community. There were people who are living just adjacent the sewage system. We are calling upon the City of Cape Town as well as the province to deal with that matter but also giving the department to follow up on that matter because we have just learned that nothing much has been done on that matter. Those people are really living in difficult conditions.


Hon Minister, we welcome the intervention in the North West province. Problems of the North West province did not start today as people are saying is a political intervention. When we went there hon Minister, as a committee we realised that there were a number of problems that are facing the province, especially in the human settlements area. One of the things that we personally experienced is that we were given a number of houses that were built for military veterans but to our surprise, hon Chair, we find that there were no houses that could be pointed at. So, therefore, we welcome the intervention. You have our support. Thank you very much, Chair.


Nksk T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, nam mandizeke emzekweni, ndithi huntshu kuwe Mam’uMfeketo ngokuba uchongwe okanye utyunjwe ukuba ube nguMphathiswa weli Sebe lokuHlaliswa koLuntu.
Ndiyayithemba into yokuba uSekela Mphathiswa uza kuxhasa njengoko eqhele ukusixhasa ekomitini.


The right to adequate housing coupled with the right to adequate standard of living is enshrined in many international documents. One of these documents to which we remain a signatory to is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Not only is South Africa under the international obligation to ensure adequate housing for


all, but is also constitutionally obligated, in terms of section 26 of the Constitution to provide for, and take active measures to ensure this right is realised and protected.

Hon Minister, we, as the DA, understand the relationship between an individual’s right to housing and their right to human dignity which you have mentioned in your speech; we understand that the concept of human dignity is based on the ability to establish a sense of self- worth and self-respect, and more often than not, housing remains highly influential in establishing this in the individual.
Currently, housing remains one of the greatest challenges facing local and national government in South Africa.

The extent of our housing issues do not only come from the substantial size of the housing backlog as well as the impatience and despair of the homeless, but also comes from the complex bureaucratic, administrative, financial and institutional frameworks within which the department is forced to function in today’s sociopolitical climate.

Hon Mfeketo, by the department’s own numbers on delivery of serviced sites and houses, the Province of Gauteng only completed 55% of the houses it was targeted to, against the DA’s 77%. Similarly, the Province of Gauteng only serviced 47% of the sites it should have


against the DA’s 101% delivery. Minister Mfeketo, ANC government has serious problems with its capacity to deliver housing. Gauteng is a prime case study of the issues undermining housing delivery, whereas the DA governments has and have rolledup their sleeves to cleanup the muck and the mire blocking delivery.- Can I be protected, Chairperson?

The City of Ekurhuleni has continued on its reckless path unabated. Hon Chairperson, the DA’s Solly Malatsi, recently visited a site in Germiston where temporary houses were built to house the residents of Angelo Informal Settlement ...


...andazi kwaba balala eziblorhweni ukuba baza kwenza njani...


... because the Free State is highly infested with the informal settlements in Mangaung, and against whom an eviction order had been obtained. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon members!

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Despite local communities, the beneficiaries and the DA’s warnings that the land was unfit for


human habitation as it had previously been mined and never adequately rehabilitated, the ANC government forged ahead with the development. In the process, the government bought the land for the site mine for R100 000. The result of this transaction is that the Metro can record this money as spent.

It is this type of wasteful expenditure, coupled with the failure of both the provincial and national ANC governments for intervention, which forced the DA to refer the matter to the Auditor-General for investigation. And whereas the ANC government only knows how to spend money with only vandalized, vacant and unsafe houses to show for it, the DA not only spends, we actually deliver real, safe houses to the correct beneficiaries. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon members!

Another challenge that faces this department is that of poor workmanship, leading to the collapsing of houses which have and continue to jeopardise the occupants. The cause of this could be attributed to the bigger issue of having unqualified and untrained workers who are expected to build houses of a certain quality of standard.


What remains pertinent questions are the following: Are there due processes the department follows when choosing its contractors that are adhered to? Are levels of skills a serious consideration, or does the department take more favourable and more convenient contractors who complete the jobs to the detriment of the poor people? Hon Minister Mfeketo, we need to seriously look at the relationship your department has with its contractors.

Just last year, hundreds of thousands, on 30 June, to be specific, it was published in the Ministry was spent by your department solely on paying fees for legal disputes with contractors and department officials. Can we address this issue and could transparency be provided on what exactly causes these disputes to arise? The Parliament cannot punish the people of South Africa by rejecting the proposed budget since millions of South Africans are waiting for the government to deliver on its constitutional mandate.

However, Minister, you are responsible as the Minister of this department. The ANC government can surely count on the South African electorate to punish this government at the ballot box. Where the ANC fails to punish corruption and maladministration, South Africans are watching and waiting for the response in 2019. Until then, the DA will continue and not to tire to hold you accountable to both the government and the people. I also want to make this clear that, in


all nine provinces, there are informal settlements, and some people



... ababizwa ngamangama ...


... are under the bridges, not only in Cape Town. Hon Dlamini is grandstanding here and saying that this problem is only in Cape Town. We have been with hon Dlamini on oversight, and Free State in Mangaung is highly infested with that. Stop politicising the housing issue! I also want to say to you ...


... iDA xa iphethe ngowama-2019, niza kubona ukuba siphethe kanjani sizizisa njani iinkonzo ebantwini.


I thank you.

Ms P NGOBENI (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of the National Council of Provinces, members of the media, esteemed traditional leaders, it gives me an immeasurable honour and great delight to come and address this


revered National Council of Provinces as we reflect and ponder on the general principles as embodied in the 2018-19 Budget Vote speech of Ms Mfeketo. [Interjections.] On behalf of Mpumalanga Provincial Legislature, I extend my words of appreciation and congratulations on your appointment to lead this important Department of Human Settlements.

It is also a pleasure to address the NCOP during the centenary of Tata Madiba and Mama Sisulu. We should ensure that all our efforts aim to improve the quality of life of people and should sustain their legacy. We all know that the visions of freedom and democracy are explicitly captured in the Freedom Charter. In his message to the real Congress of the People, Chief Albert Luthuli declared:

Why will this assembly be significant and unique? Its size, I hope, will make it unique. But above all its multi-racial nature and its noble objectives will make it unique because it will be the first time in the history of our multiracial nation that its people from all walks of life will meet as equals, irrespective of race, colour and creed and creed, to formulate a freedom charter for all people in the country.

This august assembly today is significant and unique because as South Africa, we have noted that our democratic Parliament has


appropriated an amount of R32,3 billion to the Department of Human Settlements. Let me hasten to mention that, as Mpumalanga Province, we support this budget vote because the basic principles as outlined in the policy and budget speech of our hon Minister Nomaindiya Mfeketo are exceptionally sound and reasonable. They are in line with the election manifesto of the ANC and the spirit of Thuma Mina project. [Interjections.]

The concept of Breaking New Grounds’, BNG’s, primary purpose is to eradicate informal settlements in the shortest possible time and also socioeconomically transform our spatial settlement patterns. Indeed the budget does show that our government is poised to create integrated sustainable human settlements that are well managed, which includes making sure that economic growth and social development are in balance with the carrying capacity of the settlement’s natural systems.

Yes this strategy embraces the principles of sustainable development, wealth creation, poverty alleviation and equity. Allow me to share with the House some details of the BNG. The period from 2004 to date the Department of Human Settlements has successfully developed and implanted the integrated human settlements concept as stipulated in the Breaking New Grounds, BNG, Policy.


The core tenets of the BNG — the BNG policy - is significant in its audacity and scope. The policy successfully deconstructs the most salient failings of the first generation of housing policy and recasts the imperative for adequate shelter as in fact: A policy commitment to the development of sustainable human settlements, rooted in a modernising and advanced capitalist economy.

The BNG policy framework shows deficiencies of the state housing programme, Reconstruction and Development Programme-termed, RDP- termed, challenges. These challenges are three-fold: The changing nature of housing demand at the lower end of the housing market; the nature of housing supply; and the slowdown in delivery. The BNG document openly acknowledges that:

The lack of affordable land, well located for low cost housing, resulted in the housing programme largely extending existing areas, often on the urban periphery and achieving limited integration. Post 1994, extensions to settlements have generally lacked the qualities necessary to enable a decent quality of life?

Spatial peripheralisation, sterile living environments, public sector underinvestment on essential infrastructure in new settlements, unabated financial sector red-lining of impoverished localities and rising poverty and unemployment were collectively a


few of the factors that hindered the activation of housing markets in old and new residential settlements?

Subsidized housing as an asset-accumulation tool and wealth generator for the poor and an instrument for spatial restructuring - being key objectives of the 1994 housing intervention — were beyond the reach and grasp of the working class and poor, as well as the State, as the Minister has indicated in her Budget Vote speech the reluctance of the finance sector.

In the second part of the BNG, the vision and related objectives are detailed as follows: The new human settlements plan reinforces the vision to promote the achievement of a non-racial, integrated society through the development of sustainable human settlements and quality housing. Within this broader vision, the Department of Human Settlements is committed to meet the following specific objectives: Accelerating the delivery of housing as a key strategy for poverty alleviation; utilising provision of housing as a major job creation strategy; ensuring property can be accessed by all as an asset for wealth creation and empowerment; and leveraging growth in the economy.

We believe that BNG addresses itself to the entire residential sector, and not only to the bottom end of the market. We are


encouraged by the fact that the Minister’s theme of, Golden Era of Human Settlements Expansion, is in line with the BNG policy which our province too is pursuing. Hence, we pride ourselves with the integrated and sustainable human settlements that we have established in Klarinet, at eMalahleni, Thekwane North, in the City of Mbombela and so forth.

It is noteworthy to mention that this occasion takes place when we will be celebrating the 63rd anniversary of the Freedom Charter as a free nation. It is the Freedom Charter that has been guiding us as the governing party ever since we defeated apartheid, which was defined as the crime against humanity. We must always remind ourselves that apartheid had been a crime that has indeed created an untold poverty, inequality and homelessness to the black majority of our beautiful beloved country.

Consequently, our visionary leaders and masses assembled on 25-26 June 1955 at Kliptown, in Johannesburg, wherein they adopted the Freedom Charter. Amongst the ten critical clauses, they also included clause 9, which stipulated that, “There shall be houses, security and comfort”. It further stated that:

All people shall have the right to live where they choose, to be decently housed and to bring up their families in comfort and


security; unused housing space shall be made available to the people; and rent and prices shall be lowered, food plentiful and no one shall go hungry; slums shall be demolished, and new suburbs built, where all have transport, roads, lighting, playing fields, crèches and social centres.

In conclusion, in the words of Chief Albert Luthuli, today we can declare that:

It is perhaps worth underlining here, one of the great strengths of the African National Congress. It has displayed the power to adapt itself ... step by step along our difficult road ... [Time expired.]

Thank you very much, Chairperson. We support the budget. [Applause.]

Ms D B NGWENYA: Hon Chair of the NCOP, hon commissars and fighters, I greet you ...


... le bantle; gagolo mo le dutseng teng, le a tshwanelega. [Legofi.]



Minister, your words you just said now, that human settlement is the heart of the restoration of human dignity.


Ndivumelana nawe kakhulu, mama.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order! Hon Ngwenya, a moment please. Hon Koni, thank you very much for occupying that space, the owner has arrived; please. [Interjection.] Hon Koni [Interjection.]

Ms N P KONI: [Inaudible.] ... remember, the member debating there is a member [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, listen to the Chair, the owner of the chair has arrived, please. Thank you very much for occupying that space.

Ms N P KONI: Where was ... [Inaudible.] ... because I can’t be a member ... [Inaudible.] ... up and down ... we don’t even know where he comes from ... [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, don’t disturb the House. Thank you very much for understanding hon Koni.


Ms N P KONI: [Inaudible.] [Laughter.]

Ms D B NGWENYA: Hon Chair, now I’ve lost few minutes. Like I was saying that ...


... Mama uMfeketo, ndivumelana namazwi ogqiba ukuwathetha...


... that human settlement is at the heart of the restoration of human dignity. Yet, hon Chairperson, we have an alarming number of backlogs in building Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, houses and the backlogs are as follows: KwaZulu-Natal 700 000, Western Cape 526 000, Free State 200 000; I can go on. As bad as these numbers are, it’s the sad reality.

Why would we as the EFF approve the budget of a department that has failed to do its job and give our people housing?

This department, in every province of this country, instead of providing our people proper quality housing has been turned into a tool of patronage as the resources of the state have been looted by corrupt ANC government officials.


The tender system has been manipulated so that human settlement contracts are not given to the best bidders who would provide the best and most quality houses, instead the contracts are given to the friends and family of government officials at inflated prices that costs our country billions of rands. Like in the Free State where Ace Magashule cancelled tenders that were properly tendered to contractors that were able to build those houses. He cancelled those contracts so that they could instead be given to his daughter.

This has led to badly built RDP houses that are damaged in less than a year after being built, with more money continuously spent in even more corrupt contracts.

Chairperson, may I be protected please!

In many cases ... [Interjection.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Dlamini and hon Ngwenya, don’t disturb the member who is debating. Hon Mathebula, my apology hon Ngwenya.

Ms D B NGWENYA: In many cases, the houses are simply not built, but contracts still get paid, and nobody is held accountable. This is one of the main reasons why there is such a large housing shortage


in this country. At the same time we are seeing corruption in the allocation of RDP houses, as they are sold by corrupt ANC councillors to non-deserving beneficiaries.

We have brought this matter to your department’s attention, hon Minister, countless times but to no avail. It is so sad that your councillors enrich themselves at the expense of the poor and homeless people of this country. But we want to warn you that the people of our country are not going to wait forever for their houses to be built.

Across our cities the people of South Africa are so desperate for land and housing, and are now taking matters into their own hands and repossessing land in our urban cities.

As the EFF we encourage this revolutionary programme of land repossession because for far too long, our people have been waiting for the application of their constitutionally enshrined right to housing, and for far too long, the ANC has failed to realise this right.

In Cape Town, everyday you see people taking land for housing as it happened in Parkwood recently. In Gauteng, people are occupying land


from Orange Farm to Midrand for housing. And across every metro of our country it is the same story.

The demand for housing in this country will only increase as our population is growing; and more and more people move to the cities from rural areas. The rural areas which the ANC-led government has failed to develop and make economically sustainable. But the ANC has no way of dealing with the demand for housing.

As the EFF we are clear in what needs to be done. In the short-term, the state must be able to expropriate land without compensation, and build affordable housing in areas closer to the cities where people work. We need our people moved closer to where jobs are.

The second thing we need to do once we have expropriated land is to develop new nodes of industrialisation and new cities. This can also only happen when the state is in charge of directing development, and be in a position to redirect development to those nodes and cities.

Also, hon Minister, you need to decisively undertake to deal harshly with corruption in your department. But, until then, the housing backlog will only grow.


The hostels people are living in are dilapidated, they look scary, and they’ve turned into crime hubs because nothing is done in these hostels.

Hon Minister, I plead with, please visit the townships, we are on the ground. Mohlakeng township hostel, it is where people are killed, women are raped, are abducted and kept in those hostels. Do something about it hon Minister to save our women in this country. restore those hostels and turn them into family units so that we may see the future for our children. Thank you, hon Chair. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, Minister of Human Settlements, hon Noma-India Mfeketo, Chairperson of the Select Committee on Social Services, hon Landulile Dlamini, hon members of the NCOP, councillors, Xolani Sontashe and Hlungwane from Salga, all honoured guests, team human settlements led by the Director-General, Mr Mbulelo Tshangana, I greet you all in the spirit of the youth of 1976, and that of Mama Albertina Sisulu and Tata Nelson Mandela.

Chairperson, allow me to convey my condolences to the family who have lost five children in Philippi through the shack fire - the kids ages from one-year-old twins to 12-year-old; may their soul rest in peace. Tragedies like these are a reminder of what Tata


Madiba said that: when you have climbed a hill, you realise that there are many more hills to climb.

Last month, we visited and engaged with the people of Roodewaal and surrounding areas in Worcester and Wittewater in the West coast. In all these areas our people are complaining about the pace of service delivery or non-delivery of Human Settlement’s projects.

This, Chairperson has a negative impact on their sustainable livelihood.

These go against the grain of this government of bringing back the dignity of our people. We will be meeting with the provinces and municipalities in order to take up the issues raised. According to the annual report of the Estate Affairs Agency Board, EAAB, less than 5% of Real Estates Agents are black.

This is a R7,4 trillion industry in South Africa. Africans earn 2% of the commission paid. This indicates in no uncertain terms that the industry needs to be transformed. We have the One Learner - One Estate Agency Programme run by EAAB. But it is not gaining momentum.

It is important that more needs to be done with those agencies which have shown keen interest in transforming this industry, such as


Remax, Broll and others. Broll has signed a memorandum of understanding, MOU, with EAAB to train our Youth Brigades on Real Estate and facility management.

Let me also congratulate Temi and Ramko for winning the Best Youth- owned Construction Projects in youth category. The former won as an established contractor and the latter as emerging contractor at the Govan Mbeki Human Settlements Awards.

Let me also salute women of the SA Women in Construction, Sawic, for leaving the comfort of their homes and camp in Sokhulumi Village for the past three years.

Chairperson, these women have recently completed the project of 500 units allocated to them. In this process they have established six women-owned Co-operatives. During the handover of these houses, I was accompanied by the Gauteng MEC on Human Settlements and Traditional Affairs, Hon Dikgang, Uhuru, Moiloa and Nkosi Mkhambi Mahlangu.

South African Women in Construction, Sawic, handed over eight vehicles to the Co-operatives at the end of the project. The same project won the Merit Award for the best Rural Housing Project for National and Provincial Govan Mbeki Human Settlements Awards.


There are 300 units built by Sawic as part of the 1956 housing unit allocation. In this project, there are 19 women-owned Construction Business Co-operatives. This project is at Olivenhoutbosch and Orchards.

Provinces are resisting the allocation of 1956 to women, as agreed in MinMEC. It is a real battle. That is why we welcome the formation of the CFO’s Forum. It will assist in monitoring the provinces on the empowerment of women and youth.

Chairperson, this year has been a very special year to women in the built environment. As 30% is now in the Division of Revenue Act, DORA, that is why the issue of implementation is going to be critical. Houses can never be the responsibility of government alone that is why we must continue to seek partnerships.

We need to work with private sector, NGOs, Community-Based Organizations, CBOs, religious bodies and beneficiaries. All hands on deck. Thuma mina volunteers of the President, now is the time.

It is in this regard that I am happy to announce that we will be starting with the construction and renovations of a house of the stalwart uMama Caroline Dunga in partnership with Old Mutual. This


relationship with Old Mutual, we hope, will grow from strength to strength. As we have similar requests from all over South Africa.

People who are at the centre of renovating and constructing these houses of vulnerable people are women and the youth. This augurs well with the participation of women in construction - as we speak it is growing day by day. Women are increasingly showing boldness and interest in other areas of Human Settlement’s Value Chain. These are green building, infrastructure, financing, material supply, property development and management.

Chairperson, the department has spent over R4 billion on projects allocated to women-owned enterprises from the Human Settlement Development Grant. Therefore, we will be visiting provinces to see whether they are really there ... [Interjections.] It’s none of your business!

As we celebrate the 100 years of our stalwarts, this year, we will host leadership camp in partnership with ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Minister, please take your seat.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, on a point of order ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): What is the point of order?

Ms T J MOKWELE: I believe that the executive is accountable to this House. It is unparliamentary for the Deputy Minister to speak directly to the member, and uttering unparliamentary statements. So, I am appealing to you, Chair that you rule on that. The House has been peaceful, before. So, we want to maintain the decorum of the House, for it to be as peaceful as possible. So, the Deputy Minister must really withdraw and apologise to the member because it is the members’ right to ask the Minister as to when will she be able to deliver that.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Thank you very much, hon Mokwele, take your seat. Hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele ... [Interjections.] Order hon members, order! Hon Mokwele, are you listening to me.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. Hon Minister, whenever you want to address the hon member, you must address them through the Chair. And hon member Mokwele, there is nothing that the hon Deputy Minister must withdraw. Wena you will never - eh, -eh, listen to me. Before you say whatever you want to


say, you need to seek permission from the Chair. Actually, you are out of order. Continue hon Deputy Minister. [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Why are you saying I am out of order? What have I done? Because I have requested you! [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You are out of order because you are ... [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: I spoke through you, why are you saying I am out of order?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You know why ... [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Because the Deputy Minister - I am speaking on behalf of my member. I am speaking on behalf of my member that the Deputy Minister responded to directly. So, you must tell the Deputy Minister not to address members, and she must withdraw that statement of “It’s none of your business.” I don’t think it’s within her speech there. [Laughter.] Because I can see what she has written there! Please! [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. Hon Mokwele, you know very well that when you ask a question, you or whoever member of the House, you need to seek permission from the Chair, but that never happened. That is why I am saying the hon Deputy Minister ... [Interjections.] ... whenever the hon Deputy Minister has to talk to whomever in the House; the hon Deputy Minister must do that via the Chair. That is what I said, can we continue, hon Mokwele?

Ms T J MOKWELE: May I address you peacefully so ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Listen to me, mama ... [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: I have listened to you and I agree with whatever that you have said.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Can I then request you to take your seat because I did not allow you to speak.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, can you note me then?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): I will note you ... [Interjections.]


AN HON MEMBER: No! Can you leave the House?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon members! Hon Mokwele, I will note you if ever you are not going to challenge the ruling of the Chair, only that one. I see the hon member Engelbrecht is standing.

Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Madam Chair, thank you very much for browsing on the point of order that everything that happens in the Deputy Minister’s department is this House’s business. Thank you, Chair.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: As we celebrate the 100 years of our stalwarts, this year, we will host leadership camp ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Deputy Minister, take your seat. Hon Mokwele!

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, with due respect, the hon Deputy Minister responded to the House with unparliamentarily words ... [Interjections.] ... wena you are late wena Lewis, you must keep quiet, you are very late. You must shut up! Shut up! Shut up!


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele ... [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: So, I am appealing to you, Chair that please, we addressed this thing in the morning and we have assured that for the decorum of the House to be upheld the Presiding officers must stop to be political, you must address us as equals as members of this House. Now I am appealing to you Chair, to please ask the hon Deputy Minister to withdraw those words that she uttered when she said: “It’s none of your business.” Everything that happens in this House is our business. It is not there in her speech, I can see each word that is there. [Interjections.] She has written with a very big font there, I can read it from where I am. [Interjections.] Please I am appealing to you, Chair for the decorum of the House to be upheld.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale):   Hon member, take your seat, I have ruled on the matter and you know if you are not satisfied you have to follow the correct procedure and write to the Chair. [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Hhayi, Chair, You are going to degenerate this House, I am telling you! If you continue like that, you are going to degenerate this House!


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: We will host leadership camp in partnership with Robben Island Museum, Drakenstein Correctional Services and the Mthatha Arts Academy. This is in honour of Tata Rolihlahla Nelson Mandela. This will be attended by learners from the Western Cape and Eastern Cape between 02 and 08 July 2018.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele ... [Interjections.] You know the correct procedure, allow the House to proceed.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Hhayi, hhayi that procedure is not assisting us! We are being abused here!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele, allow the Deputy Minister to continue with the debate.

Ms T J MOKWELE: No, you must call her to order! She must withdraw those words!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, I did allow the hon Deputy Minister to continue ... [Interjections.]


Ms T J MOKWELE: Everything that happens in this House is the business of the members of this House.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, I am asking you for the last time, allow the House to continue, continue hon Deputy Minister.

Ms T J MOKWELE: I knew you would say that ... [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Continue hon Deputy Minister.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: In paying tribute to uMama Albertina Nontsikelelo Sisulu as well as commemorating all women stalwarts. We will host the women in Human Settlements Indaba in Gauteng during the month of August. We will also launch a woman in Human Settlements book. We hope that this book will also touch the issue or the history of housing backlog.

Chairperson, I worked with Deputy Minister Godfrey Oliphant on distressed mining towns, this is in Northern Cape in Heuningvlei. This was a joint operation of the Department of Minerals and Energy and Department of Human Settlements. Twenty-two houses were


identified. The Housing Development Agency, HAD, was chosen as an implementing agent.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, hon Koni, please don’t drown the speaker.

Ms M P KONI: When people speak ... [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): I did not allow you to speak, hon Koni. Continue hon Minister.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Money for construction came from Gencko, and the project was in Joe Morolong Municipality. Kgosi Bareki, the Mayor of the municipality and the community were excited on the handover of 22 houses to them. Chairperson, I, the Deputy Minister of Co-operative Governance, Mr Andries Nel and the Director-General, Mr Mbulelo Tshangana, led a delegation to the 9th session of World Urban Forum, which took place from 7th to 13th February 2018 in Malaysia.

We continue to make a call to provinces that youth contractors are allocated one 1 976 units, per province to commemorate the sacrifices made by the youth of 1976. In commemorating Youth Month, we will also be handing over a house to Gogo Betty Nkabinde, born in


1916. Hon members, this house was built by an emerging youth contractor after realising the hardship faced by Gogo and her family at Kwa-Mhlanga, Mpumalanga. He is donating this house to Gogo. I thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Minister, thank you very much, you said something like 1916 ... [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, she never told us the story of the Gogo, she doesn’t know the Gogo.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele, please – hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele, you cannot just stand up and speak without permission. Let me call the hon M Mvoko, the MEC for Human Settlement.

Mr M MVOKO (MEC — Human Settlements: Eastern Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister of Human Settlements, members of the NCOP, good afternoon, molweni.

In support of this budget, let me take this opportunity to report on the strides of great work that we are doing as a province in the restoration of the dignity of the people of the province. [Interjections.]


Ms T J MOKWELE: I’m offering ... [Inaudible.]

Mr M MVOKO: Thank you very much. From 2014 to date, we have successfully completed and delivered over 50 000 housing units and connected 41 610 services. This work has seen the creation of approximately 52 000 jobs in the Human Settlements sector. All this work has been done against the backdrop of 100% expenditure of the annual Human Settlements Development Grant received by the department for the past four years.

The department maintains a strong pipeline of projects and monitors this by ensuring that the percentage of housing completions done each year is greater than the prescribed targets. On the downside, we all know that the backlogs are very huge.

Ms T J MOKWELE: How do you ... [Inaudible.]

Mr M MVOKO: For this financial year, we have set ourselves a very realistic target, given the tough economic climate we are operating in as government. It implies that we have to cut the cloth according to our size.

As a department, we have experienced a budget cut of close to R350 million for this financial year. We have therefore dedicated


resources to complete the construction of 8 565 housing units, which is lower than our previous target of between 10 000 and 12 000 units per annum. We have set a target of completing 200 social housing units in the Nelson Mandela Bay metro and Buffalo City metro. We have also planned to approve 200 subsidies in our Finance Linked Individual Subsidy Programme. We are committed to completing socioeconomic amenities that will benefit a number of people in our communities — in Nkantolo and the Nelson Mandela Bay metro.

In restoring the dignity of our people and promoting asset ownership, we are handing over more than 1 000 title deeds that have been finalised and undertaking the transfer of 9 000 new title deeds in the system.

In ensuring the protection and wellbeing of our veterans, we are committed to providing 179 additional housing units to the current running military veterans’ projects in our province. The work is being done working with the Department of Military Veterans that approves and authenticates military veterans through their database.

The improvement and upgrading of the lives of the people of the province remains a central commitment of the Eastern Cape government; thus we have committed ourselves to the plan of upgrading 24 informal settlements for the financial year.


In the rectification of shoddy workmanship experienced in the older housing projects, we have committed ourselves to the fixing of about 900 defective units in the province during this year. This is in line with the ministerial directive regarding the rectification of houses in the province.

In celebrating the centennial year of both former President Mandela and our struggle icon mam Sisulu, we have decided to celebrate their lives in showcasing the great work the department is doing. We will be launching and handing over our Youth Brigade programme in Qunu and Mvezo respectively. We will be handing over a multipurpose community centre, MPCC, in Motherwell in the Nelson Mandela Bay metro, as well as launching a women’s build project in the Chris Hani District.

As a province we have established a dedicated unit to focus on the beneficiary correct occupation campaign. This has been bedevilling our province for quite a long time. There is a dedicated unit in the department that is tasked with investigating cases of illegal occupation, working collaboratively with municipalities to implement corrective measures.

We are supporting local municipalities with the informal settlements upgrading programme. We also intend to have a credible human


settlements spatial plan developed by the end of the financial year, which will guide municipal human settlements plans and land management.

The province has also developed a multiyear concept of the new Qunu city development project. Our department is a lead department in this project. This is a timely and ambitious project linked beyond the Mandela centennial celebrations and is intended to leverage on history and the legacy of the late statesman, as well as the rich culture and heritage of the Qunu, Mqhekezweni and Mvezo villages for the benefit of the local community, through human settlements development, heritage sites, job creation, business opportunities and other benefits. The project will be implemented in phases with eight development packages, which include commercial opportunities such as a petro stop, a theatre, a hotel, a library, guest houses and an artspark, amongst other amenities.

In conclusion, section 26 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa states that, “Everyone has the right to have access to adequate housing”. It is therefore government’s duty to take reasonable legislative and other measures, within the available resources, to achieve the progressive realisation of this right. We therefore have a mandate to serve and change the people’s lives,


despite the resource constraints, and we are here to heed that clarion call. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms T K MAMPURU: Chairperson ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order hon members!

Ms T K MAMPURU: ... the high demand and moving target for housing has led government to rethink how it works ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order hon Koni!

Ms T K MAMPURU: ... be innovative and robustly gear it towards increasing its efforts of providing housing to our people, who are mostly poor. Upscaling the delivery of houses must occur behind the backdrop of dismantling apartheid spatial patterns and creating integrated human settlements ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): The hon members Mampuru, hon member, please take your seat. Hon Essack, why are you standing?

Mr F ESSACK: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: Through you, could you just ask the speaker at the podium to slow down a little, I cannot follow her. [Interjections.]


Mr F ESSACK: I cannot follow what she is saying, please, through you Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you hon Essack, unfortunately you cannot change the character of a person.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): That is how she is, you cannot change that. [Interjections.] Listen hon Mampuru! Hon Mampuru! I am the one who is doing the ruling ... [Interjections.]

Ms T K MAMPURU: Thank you Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): ... not you.

Ms T K MAMPURU: Sorry Chair. Sorry Chair! [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Continue with your debate.

Ms T K MAMPURU: ... These are the living conditions envisioned by the ANC in the Freedom Charter and the Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, the department’s Breaking New Ground Policy, BNG, and the National Development Plan, NDP. As such, the ANC-led government has devised projects and strategies within the


housing sector in order to adequately meet the housing demands of our county.

According to the Department of Human Settlements, over 100 000 people migrate to economic hubs such as Gauteng per annum. In response to this influx into inner cities and mining towns, government has crafted catalytic projects and crowded funding from the private sector. On catalytic projects, the 2014 Election Manifesto of the ANC highlights those catalytic projects, such as integrated residential programmes and mega housing projects, will be used to direct investment and overcome apartheid spatial geography in South Africa. These projects, which are a national priority, involve mixed use, mixed income, integrated human settlement developments, and are aimed at providing spatially, socially and economically integrated communities. To this end, the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF set a target of delivering 50 catalytic projects between 2014 and 2019. In her 2018 Budget Vote speech Minister of Human Settlements, Nomaindiya Mfeketo, stated that we have entered an “era that is propelled by significant catalytic building programmes that will reshape and transform our spatial order, forever”.

This era is known as the Golden Era of Human Settlements Expansion.


According to the Department of Human Settlements, government and the private sector have initiated human settlement catalytic projects with an estimated investment value worth more than half a trillion Rand? It is envisaged that The Golden Era of Human Settlements Expansion will significantly address the housing backlog and the increasing housing needs in our country. So far, 19 catalytic projects are in the delivery pipeline ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order hon member Stock!

Ms T K MAMPURU: ... by the Department of Human Settlements. The implementation of catalytic projects such as the Cornubia Project in KwaZulu-Natal, Southern Corridor Integrated Human Settlement Programme ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order hon member Mampuru, please take your seat. Hon Mokwele! Hon Mokwele, you will be the second one. That one stood first. [Interjections.] Hon Essack, why are you standing?

Mr F ESSACK: Chairperson, on a point of order: [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the point of order?


Mr F ESSACK: I have heard the member on the podium use the word “catalytic” about 20 times ... [Interjections.] [Laughter.] may I ask the member on the podium if she would take a question based on that catalytic converters.

Ms T K MAMPURU: I am talking about catalytic projects!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Yes! Oh no! Hon Mampuru, you are not going to make my life difficult. I am listening to the hon member and you are busy there. Hon Essack, that is not a point of order please take your seat. Hon Mokwele?


Moh T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Oh okay! Sorry hon Mokwele. [Interjections.] You were late with your question. Let us ascertain first, hon Mampuru, are you ready to take the hon member’s question? [Interjections.] Are you ready hon member? [Interjections.] [Laughter.] She is not ready. Please take your seat hon Essack. Hon Mokwele?



Moh T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke rata go tlhola gore a ke molao wa Palamente gore leloko la mokgatlho o mongwe o tlhasele ...


... another member from the same party, is it parliamentary because I cannot take it. Hon Stock is busy attacking hon Mampuru and hon Mampuru is on the podium. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, take your seat. Hon Stock! Hon Stock, if ever you are attacking the hon member please stop doing that. I did not hear ... [Interjections.]

Mr D STOCK: Can I just put something into perspective. I have never attacked anyone.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much.

Mr D STOCK: I do not know what the hon member is ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much.

Mr D STOCK: I was just complaining about the noise but I am fine now. I never attacked anyone.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. Take your seat. Continue hon Mampuru.

Ms T K MAMPURU: On private sector finance, significant private partnerships ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Stock!

Ms T K MAMPURU: ... and investment are also expected in catalytic projects in the form of rental units, affordable housing units and the development of economic infrastructure such as shopping centres and other commercial developments. The involvement of the private sector in the provision of housing marks a rethinking of government’s role as the sole funder of housing. It is also as a result of the commitment in the 2014 Election Manifesto where the ANC proclaimed that: we will work with financial institutions, private sector organisations, co-operatives and social partners to increase the provision of capital for housing. This will include the establishment of a mortgage insurance scheme. Diverse funding streams and the involvement of a range of stakeholders allows for low cost and affordable housing to be an integral part of all city developments in well located, mixed income, mixed function and mixed community settings.


The work done by the department’s entity, the National Housing Financing Corporation, NHFC, is crucial to pooling funds from the private sector through intermediaries and facilitating the issuing of mortgages through banks. Up to 2017, NHFC had invested
R7,4 billion into the affordable housing sector, and had been able to leverage R19 billion from the private sector as well as multilateral agencies. NHFC is expected to disperse R127 million for social housing, R198 million for private rentals and R102 million for affordable housing in the 2018-19 financial year. The NHF, in partnership with companies such as Old Mutual, Housing Investment Partners and the Trust for Urban Housing Finance, TUHF will be implementing a programme that will generate 3 973 housing opportunities and over 15 000 beneficiaries. It is clear that the ANC-led government is honouring its election manifesto commitment and is making progress in seeking additional resources and mobilising the private sector to play an active role in the national drive to address the legacy of apartheid exclusion and poverty for the majority of our people. On title deeds, in our 2014 manifesto we, the ANC, and no other party, committed to eliminate a historical backlog of title deeds and those new homeowners in the subsidy market will be issued with title deeds on occupation.

The MTSF translated this commitment to the need to transfer title deeds for all 530 000 new subsidy units as well the backlog of


900 000 title deeds in the integrated residential housing programme, between 2014 and 2019. The objective of the Title Deeds Restoration programme is to promote and foster an increase in household wealth which advances the eradication of poverty and inequality. We are encouraged by the progress made in provinces such as Kwazulu-Natal and Gauteng. We are encouraged by the leadership displayed Minister Mfeketo when she facilitated the delivery of title deeds and houses in the Western Cape province. On 9 May 2018, the Minister handed over approximately 2 000 title deeds and houses at the Delft Precinct 7 in Cape Town. This is the leadership that is required as we journey towards rebuilding our country and restoring the dignity of our people. The ANC supports the Budget. Thank you. [Applause.]


Moh L M MASEKO: Modulasetilo, ke rata go simolola ka go dumedisa bathomhegi botlhe moNtlong le baeng ba bal eng teng.


Hon Chairperson, the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996, places an obligation on the state to provide access to adequate housing to its citizens. As the custodian of the housing sector in the province, the Western Cape Department of Human Settlements does this by: applying the national policy, national norms and standards for housing and human settlements development;


setting provincial housing delivery goals; monitoring the financial and nonfinancial of its performance and that of municipalities against these goals; and building the capacity of municipalities and promoting consultation with all the stakeholders in the housing delivery chain, including civil society and the private sector.

When presenting the budget speech, the Western Cape Department of Human Settlements last year, Minister Madikizela indicated that our department was strategically moving away from implementing small sporadic housing projects to prioritising the upgrading of informal settlements, unlocking opportunities in the affordable Gap housing market and ensuring that attention is paid to the most deserving. In practical terms, this approach meant that we as the DA were committing ourselves on an unusual trajectory in delivering human settlements in the Western Cape.

Therefore, with your indulgence, allow me to highlight key aspects of the strategic approach I have just mentioned. Let me start with our programmes designed to improve the quality of life of our people living in informal settlements and backyards. The upgrading of informal settlements programme is more about improving living conditions.


True to the dictates of the National Development Plan, having listened to our people, and in true form to our commitment to people-centred development and partnerships with an active citizenry, the department concluded in the Western Cape Informal Settlement Support Plan, a transversal plan which provides a clear roadmap on how to address the challenges faced by informal settlement residents in a systematic way and collectively across sector departments. To this end, to accelerate interventions to
informal settlements, the department has since allocated funding for

60 informal settlements to be upgraded under the Upgrading of Informal Settlements, UIS programme projects across 14 municipalities in the province, including high growth potential towns such as Paarl, Grabouw, Robertson, Heidelberg, Ceres and Mossel Bay.

Collaborative efforts between officials of the department and the municipalities to turn the tight on the informal settlements interventions have started bearing fruits as some of the informal settlements projects have seen progress from this, identification of packaging and some have even advanced to implementation with contractors on side. When concluded approximately 100 000 households’ quality of life would have been improved because of
25 000 and 21 sites being serviced. These sites are in the following municipalities: Breede Valley 3 000, Drakenstein 687, Langeberg 397,


Stellenbosch 3 091, Witzenberg and I can go on until the Swartland with 100. ... [Interjections.] ... No, I will send you the information.

Unlocking the opportunities in the affordable and Gap market, affordable housing is one of the initiatives in the metro that are afoot continuing. Planning for the acceleration of affordable housing outside of Cape Town is gaining momentum in the Western Cape. Social housing restructuring zones have now been gazetted in
11 nonmetro leader towns. These sites will provide significant impetus within key central rental housing precincts. Remember that most of the people that come to the city are not coming for housing, but they are coming for the jobs. Therefore, we need to really fast track their needs. They are coming for the jobs because of the poverty. So these ... thank you very much.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon member Wana.

Ms L M MASEKO: Through you, Chair, if the member wants to have a conversation with me we can meet outside when I’m done so I can give her more information.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Don’t listen to her continue with your work. Order, hon Koni!


Ms L M MASEKO: Thank you very much. These sites will provide significant impetus within key central housing precincts.
Municipalities are now focussing on establishing formal social housing partnerships which will facilitate sustainable relationships through streamlining access to resources. 53 potential projects ... [Interjections.]


Moh T J MOKWELE: Ga ke itsi gore leloko le le tlotlegang le batlang, a o batla gore re tswele kwa ntle re ye go lwa kgotsa o batla gore re mo dire eng?


We are not afraid to go outside and fight. We can do that now. Tell her so that we can go now and beat her and come back to the House. We are not afraid.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele!

Ms T J MOKWELE: We are not afraid. Come out, let’s go out.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele! Hon member! Hon Mokwele! Hon Koni, let’s allow the hon member to continue with the debate.


Ms N P KONI: You call the EFF members to order. You mention them by their surnames, but when it comes to the ANC members you never mention them with their surnames. I don’t know what you are trying to do. Who are you trying to fool because it can’t be correct that our surnames are ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, I did not allow you to speak. Take your seat.

Ms N P KONI: But you said that I can speak.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): When?

Ms N P KONI: Few seconds ago.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Take your seat, hon member. Continue hon Maseko. Order! Order! Hon member on the podium!

Ms L M MASEKO: Thank you very much. My time is still intact, hon Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Yes. For now take your seat. The hon member Zukiswa!


Ms Z V NCITHA: Chair, I think that you need to rule on what the hon member has said to the House when she was responding direct to hon Wana and say “if you want to ask any question she can deal with her outside”. That was not in order, Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, order! Order! Order! Hon Zukiswa, thank you for raising that point of order. Allow me to go and check on the Hansard because I don’t remember what happened. Thank you very much. Continue, hon Maseko.

Ms L M MASEKO: 53 potential projects intended for delivery over the next 10 years, entailing approximately 11 732 units, are now being actively explored. The intention is that the first social housing project outside of the metro, comprising of 360 units, will break ground as part of the integrated development at Dal Josafat in the Drakenstein Municipality within the new financial year.

Furthermore, this provincial department is focusing on the finance- linked individual subsidy programme for households requiring affordable housing. To benefit from finance-linked individual subsidy programme, Flisp, beneficiaries leverage the purchase price of the property by obtaining mortgage finance from registered financial institutions, whilst simultaneously accessing the Flisp capital subsidy. The department has developed a Flisp pipeline that


could yield over 10 000 units by 2025. Flisp accommodates lower to middle income earners who are unable to secure bonds from banks.
Hence, the department has concluded a Memorandum of Understanding with different financial institutions limited on 1st March 2018 to unlock housing finance for the lower end of the housing market and enable affordable Gap market.

The department is also in the process of introducing a pilot Housing Consumer Credit Readiness Initiative. This initiative will rehabilitate those consumers who cannot access bank finance due to impaired credit records. It uses the period whilst the property is being developed to get the potential home-owner with a blemished credit record, to become credit ready. This caring government clearly does housing delivery best.

Another key strategic area for this provincial department is prioritising the most deserving for subsidised housing. It is important for the public to understand that affordable housing can mean either subsidised rental, called social housing, or affordable ownership. Ownership is applicable to two subsidies: the Flisp and the institutional housing subsidy.

Having already unpacked Flisp will now break down what is meant by Institutional Housing subsidy. This department has prioritised


qualifying and deserving recipients by partnering with the Human Sciences Research Council to reform the Institutional Housing subsidy. Currently, less than 5% of projects in the affordable housing pipeline are linked to this subsidy. This instrument brings subsidised rental housing a step closer to home ownership. The research project will be completed next month and will catalyse affordable housing opportunities.

We cannot look at the key strategic areas of Upgrade of Informal Settlement Programme, UISP, unlocking opportunities in the affordable or Gap market and ensuring that attention is paid to the most deserving in isolation from each other. These catalytic projects will provide over 105 000 housing opportunities by the year 2022 in the airport precinct, Forest Village, iThemba, Penhill, Kosovo Philippi and Thabo Mbeki and Tsunami, Syferfontein, Thembalethu, Belhar central business district, CBD, and Wilderness Heights, amongst others - and all this is because the Democratic Alliance cares.

Some examples of this department’s pioneering and inclusive catalytic projects include: Conradie Hospital, Belhar CBD, and TransHex. Belhar CBD will provide 4 188 units by 2022. This includes 850 social housing units, over 560 student accommodation units or over 2 000 beds; 1 000 Flisp bonded units; 600 subsidised units and


over 100 units for the Military Veterans. These units are well located between the University of the Western Cape, Cape Peninsula University of Technology and Northlink College.

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: Hon Chairperson, I’m not sure in the hon member is ready to take just a simple question on the Military Veterans.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, are you ready to take a simple question?

Ms L M MASEKO: Definitely, House Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): She is ready.

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: The report that we received in terms of the delivery of the houses for Military Veterans was 93, and the demand was 458. Is that delivery in terms of what you are saying that you are a caring government?

Ms L M MASEKO: House Chair, I’m an oversight Member of Parliament and I do my work very well. Those 100 houses are delivered, the only problem if you can help me my favourite colleague is to get your house in order, the Military Veterans names so that we can know who are the beneficiaries because every year you still say that you are


still trying to get the list to know who are the beneficiaries. Get the beneficiary list in order and you will see that we will deliver. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

Escalating and fast-tracking the issuing of title deeds remain a priority of the department because we believe that any delay in issuing title deeds is a delay in confirming ownership to our people. To this end, we have, in partnership with the municipalities re-engineered the process and established a provincial title deeds restoration committee which serves as a co-ordinating forum for information and decisions on matters of title deeds.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, your time has expired.

Ms L M MASEKO: I said it that there is no way that we will do that but the most important information in conclusion is that resulting from the efforts made ... [Interjections.] ... I’m finishing the sentence, thank you Chairperson ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Don’t worry you will submit your speech captured in full.

Ms L M MASEKO: Okay, thank you, Chair. [Applause.]


Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, Minister, welcome to the department.


Siyathemba ukuba makufike wena noko izinto zizolunga. Mnta’kaMvoko, siyakwamkela. Masithembe ukuba nokuhanjiswa kweenkonzo kuya kuthi kubekho. Phaya eBhayi, kwindayo ekuthiwa “I saw it I will see” kwaWard 28, umcimbi mbi kakhulu. Abantu bancame babhalela kwiphondo becela ukuba makungenelelwe.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member Maseko, the hon member on the podium is protected.


Mnu L B GAEHLER: Ndiyathemba ukuba uza kuya kujonga phaya.


Chairpeson, whilst citizens are registered and counted as beneficiaries of RDP houses by the Human Settlements department, their situation can be best described as glorified squatter camps.

In 2015, the Human Settlements department in the Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality promised that the beneficiaries of the Zanemvula priority project would be removed to enable the ratification


programme to correct the defects. Three years down the line, the dignity of our people is so much undermined that they live on top of graves.


Bahlala emigxobhozweni kwaWard 28, ...


... with absolutely no space or hope for economic and social activities as well as inclusion. For them to bury their loved ones, they have to rely on facilities outside of where they reside.

Chairperson, many of the houses and settlements built between 1994 and 2010 are a far cry from the acceptable and current national policy, national norms and standards for housing and human settlements development. People are crammed in overcrowded and dysfunctional spaces in Ward 28. Chairperson, this department has to go back to basics in this regard.

The UDM further proposes that the department should conduct an assessment of all houses and settlements that were built between 1994 and 2010 against the current policy, norms and standards. The department must evaluate whether they are consistent with Outcome 8,


which provides for sustainable human settlements and quality of household life.

In the event of discrepancies as this is the case in Ward 28, the Minister must make policy proposals consistent with the rectification programme and other relevant legal prescripts to elaborate a plan that the department can do and will do to rectify these houses.

Ward 28 in an epitome of lack of broad national housing delivery goals.


Sisi uyangxola, akungxolwa ePalamente.


I’m sorry to say this, but ...


... uyangxola apha. Tyhini!


I’m sorry to say this.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Continue with the debate, sir.

Order! Hon Maseko!

Ms L M MASEKO: I take it that this is a respectful House. As much as there is respect directed towards you, there must also be respect directed towards me. With due respect, the hon member needs to talk to me through you if there’s an issue. I don’t think “ukungxola” is on the agenda today.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. It is noted.

Mr L B GAEHLER: I apologise. Can you help me, Chairperson. She is making noise; she is distracting me. Please protect me.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Maseko, the hon member on the podium is protected.

Continue, hon Gaehler.



Mnu L B GAEHLER: Sihlalo, ukuba niya phaya, zonke izindlu ezakhiwa phambi kowe-1994, - yiya eMthatha, eBhongweni, mama. Abantu bahlala kwizindlu ezingenawo namazinki neefestile. Uye eXhora, Mphathiswa nalapho kukho loo ngxaki.


Moh T J MOKWELE: Ga ke utlwe sepe fa rre a bua puo ya kwa gaabo. Ke kopa phetolelo. O ntse a re “nxokge, nxokge, nxokge”.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Go to channel 2, hon Mokwele.

Ms T J MOKWELE: It’s not there.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, can I request you to go and check where you normally sit.

Ms T J MOKWELE: I don’t have to listen to ... [Interjections.] Who said so? Setswana is also an official language. I want to hear Setswana. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Thank you very much, hon Mokwele. [Interjections.]


Ms T J MOKWELE: Yes, please. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): It will be taken care of.

Ms T J MOKWELE: A re tlhomphaneng. [Tsenoganong.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Order! Continue, hon Gaehler.

Mr L B GAEHLER: Minister, most of the houses that were built between 1994 and 2010 are in a very bad state all over – Elliotdale and Mount Frere. You can go anywhere. But what is worst of all, Minister, is that the government promised to charge the people who built inferior houses. Of the people who misused government money, nobody has been charged for corruption to date. It is a very worrying factor when people steal government money and are not brought to court. It is not right. That is taxpayers’ monies. Let us be factual in this regard. Whether we like it or not, that is taxpayers’ money. Nobody ever gets charged for corruption. It’s just a matter of talking, but nobody ... We therefore urge to call the Hawks in so that these people who built inferior houses and used taxpayers’ monies are charged and the money goes back to the government kitty.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Hon Gaehler, your time has expired.

Mr L B GAEHLER: I still have five minutes. Here, I have five minutes. Which clock is right?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Oh!

Mr L B GAEHLER: And the two minutes that you took talking to me? That’s seven minutes. [Laughter.]

So, these people must be charged. There must be accountability, Minister. These are our poor people’s monies. The country is in a mess because of people who are corrupt. There is nobody who is charged. Please charge corrupt people.


Ncedani nibavalele abantu abatya imali zabarhafi bethu. Valelani aboo bantu abo. Ithi i-UDM mabavalelwe abantu abatya imali zerhafu. Enkosi. [Kwaphela ixesha.]

HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Thank you very much.

Hon member Mokwele, Setswana is on channel 9.


Cllr X SOTASHE: House Chairperson, hon Chairperson in absentia, Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon Chief Whip of the National Council of Provinces, hon Minister in absentia and Deputy Minister, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, hon Minister, we would like to congratulate you on your new portfolio. As SA Local Government Association, Salga, we are particularly pleased to welcome you to this position given your wealth of experience and understanding of the local government sector. As former mayor of Cape Town, you not only understand the challenges of local government but appreciate the critical role that local government plays in socioeconomic development of our country. We therefore extend a special welcome and look forward to working with you to ensure that local government’s role in human settlements is strengthened whereby our municipalities fully exercise their potential in contributing to the goal of 160 000 housing opportunities to be delivered in the 2018-19 financial year as part of the of your vision of a “Golden Era of Human Settlements Expansion.” We welcome the four areas highlighted in your speech, which include land assembly strategic partnership amongst key institutions, funding and expertise. The Integrated Urban Development Framework, IUDF, and our international obligations in terms of the New Urban Agenda compel our country to expedite the devolution of built environment functions to local government. This will enable cities to fulfil their expected role as drivers of


economic growth, social cohesion and spatial transformation. In our opinion, the devolution of the housing function will contribute to better outcomes in relation to managing urbanisation, containing sprawl and effecting spatial transformation.

This will allow municipalities to become better capacitated on a progressive and incremental basis, where national and provincial government provide targeted capacity to build the required systems and competencies for the human settlements function in all municipalities. In our view, the above interweaves perfectly with your constitutional mandate in terms of Section 154 of the Republic of South Africa to provide support and capacitate the local sphere of government. Despite serious delays in the implementation of housing accreditation to date, it is becoming increasingly clear that strengthening of the role of municipalities through accreditation and assignment is a necessary step to achieve the objectives of the National Development Plan, NDP, IUDF, and the New Urban Agenda. The accreditation and assignment process will enable capacitated municipalities to more effectively and proactively address urbanisation and land invasions, and empower them to improve human settlements delivery and spatial planning. Hon Minister, in order to achieve the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, target of accrediting an additional 29 municipalities by the end of 2019, we wish to commit ourselves to work with you and provincial


governments to prioritise submission of names of municipalities to apply for accreditation and to support those municipalities. We call on provinces to fully implement the existing accreditation framework with those municipalities that are currently accredited, and to fully comply with the Division of Revenue Act requirements in this regard.

We also need to restart the process of assignment with a joint commitment by all three spheres to work towards the assignment of capacitated municipalities, commencing with the metros and intermediary cities as set out in the IUDF. As you highlighted in your budget speech, the land issue is a critical pillar of successes. We especially appreciate your acknowledgement of the challenges faced by municipalities in terms of incoherent land assembly, which continue to bedevil the housing delivery process where increasingly cities are dealing with evictions, land grabs and protests. With the pressures of urbanisation, larger municipalities are experiencing an increasing number of land invasions where the supply of affordable housing is failing to meet the increasing demand of the population inflow to cities. Municipalities face enormous pressure to provide services to a growing population, often resulting in the redirection of resources towards emergency accommodation and services, and away from planned bulk infrastructure investment. Section 26(3) of the Constitution states


that no one may be evicted from their home, or have their home demolished, without an order of court made after consideration of all the relevant circumstances. Procedures for eviction of unlawful occupants are contained in the Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act, 1998, which also requires a court to consider the circumstance of the eviction and to determine whether the eviction is “just and equitable” when granting or not granting an eviction order.

The Constitution states that everyone has the right to access to adequate housing. It would also not be just and equitable to evict someone if they would be left homeless by the eviction. If a household is desperate and has nowhere else to go, an eviction cannot be granted unless temporary alternative accommodation can be made available to the evictees. In the landmark Blue Moonlight case, the Constitutional Court granted the eviction order, but stated that it was responsibility of the municipality to provide alternate accommodation. This puts local government in a difficult position because in the Constitution, housing is a concurrent responsibility with an enormous distribution of authority and a skewed resources allocation that is not favourable to the local sphere of government. Whilst the Constitution allows for the shift of a function to municipalities where it can be performed more efficiently, as stated earlier this process has experienced serious delays and an urgent


attention on this process is required. We all know that whenever all forms of evictions happen, court orders compel municipalities to provide alternative accommodation to evictees. And that this happens in a policy and fiscal dispensation that doesn’t provide municipalities with either the authority or the resources to carry out the function. In order not to be in contempt of law, so far municipalities rudimentarily comply.

The legal framework in its current form is unsustainable. The mushrooming of informal settlements where municipalities are forced to evict and provide alternate accommodation, or are forced to purchase the land is having a huge impact on resources and is also disrupting existing plans to deliver to those who are registered on the National Housing Needs Register and have been on waiting lists for many years. It is indeed common cause that to our people there is only one government, as such the majority of local community protests are triggered by housing concerns and local government regardless of the current situation bears the brunt of the anger of our people, and most importantly, the destructive behaviour of protestor’s results in huge costs to municipalities. It is in this context, that as Salga we believe, a more stable and appropriately devolved housing function will indeed better equip municipalities to expeditiously provide an emergency housing programme for alternative accommodation for evictees. We call upon this House, to consider


creating a legislative instrument, to compel private landowners to protect their land from invasion and that where such measures have been affected, to compel illegal land invaders to share part of the responsibility for knowingly breaking the law and that where circumstances justify, municipalities to provide alternative accommodation. In this regard, Salga has already submitted recommendations to your department on the draft The Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Amendment Bill, based on extensive consultation with our member municipalities.

Salga share your concerns about poor grant performance and the negative impact on our communities’ rights to housing. Salga is providing support to municipalities to address audit outcomes, and also engaging with metros on their urban settlements development grant, USDG, slow spending. We are particularly pleased with the role the ... [Time expired.] Thank you very much, Chair. [Applause.]

Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Hon Chairperson and fellow South Africans, informal settlements, the place called home for many of our South Africans, has increased by over 600% since 1994. These homes are often nothing more than a basic shack made from whatever materials available, with no running water, proper sanitation or electricity.


Human settlements provision in South Africa is a complex issue and as urban migration intensifies the 30% portion of the Urban Settlement Development Grant dedicated for the upgrading of informal settlements will not be sufficient to transform the ever rising number of informal settlements into liveable human communities.
Added to this, the housing backlog has increased to over two million.

However, the Auditor-General, AG, reported insufficient audit evidence for the reduction of the title deeds backlog and highlighted the lack of capacity and the department’s poor performance, with only 28 out of 48 targets achieved. A dismal 58,3% achievement rate.

A total of R2,8 million was recorded as fruitless and wasteful expenditure; R12,3 million was recorded as irregular and shockingly, the department has under spent a total of R109,1 million.

It will not be responsible for us to support this Budget when it is clear that it is underfunded, understaffed, does not deliver and is a poorly performing department.

Due to backlogs, unlawful settlements and corruption on housing lists, millions of poor and vulnerable South Africans are still


desperately waiting while they pay the price of an increase in Value Added Tax, VAT, and the debilitating increasing petrol. The poorest do pay the price.

Minister, we do congratulate you on the long outstanding title deeds handed over in Delft. This was originally a project of 15 000 homes that you started in 2004 and was hampered by mismanagement. So, please Minister, get rid of the maladministration in your department so that our residence do not have to wait 14 years to get their title deeds.

Hon Dlamini, poor homeless people are not just found in Cape Town, but are the product of bad ANC economic policies. With 34 million people living in poverty and almost 10 million people unemployed.

The bitter irony of the ANC government’s budget is that the only significant cuts in spending were all made in areas that directly affect poor communities, which is what has happened by slashing the funding to provinces and municipalities for human settlements programmes.

A DA national government will establish a Home Voucher Scheme; giving qualifying residents R150 000 to build their own home on a serviced site or use it as deposit towards buying an already


existing house. We will propose the total abolition of transfer fees for first-time buyers below 35 years. We will amend section 10 of the Housing Act of 1997 in order to reduce the waiting period for selling a government-built housing unit from eight years to two years.

Madam Chair, we need to restore ...

Ms N P KONI: Can you please check with the member on the podium if she will take my simple question?

The HOUSE CHAIR (Ms M C Dikgale): Are you willing to take the hon member’s simple question?

Ms B A ENGLEBRECHT: Afterwards Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIR (Ms M C Dikgale): She is not ready for now. Take your seat hon Koni. Continue.

Ms B A ENGLEBRECHT: Madam Chair, we need to restore, and we need to do this together, the dignity of our people that don’t have homes. We must ensure that the houses provide appropriate shelter with access to basic services ...


The HOUSE CHAIR (Ms M C Dikgale): Order hon Koni, order. Hon Koni, the member is protected.

Ms B A ENGLEBRECHT: We must ensure that the houses provide appropriate shelter with access to basic services we can proudly call a home. Our people deserve a new South Africa for all. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson; hon Minister of Human Settlements, Mama Mfeketo; hon Deputy Minister, Mama Zou Kota-Fredericks; hon members of this august House; and guests in the gallery, it is a pleasure, indeed, to be participating in this very important debate.

When I read your comments in the April issue of Leadership magazine, hon Minister, I could actually read and discern that you are taking your responsibilities as incoming Minister, seriously, in the spirit of Thuma Mina. I also like the manner in which you articulated the issue of expropriation of land, without compensation, when you said you would look at the prescripts of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Freedom Charter, in that regard.

Provision of housing is determined by the income that one earns. This creates a situation where some of the people are unable to get an RDP house, not do they qualify to get loans from the banks in the


form of a bond. The government responded to this challenge by coming up with the Finance Linked Individual Subsidy Programme, Flisp. The object of Flisp ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, I want to check – because the ANC always changes programmes. Do we still have the Reconstruction and Development Programme, or are you implementing the NDP?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You know very well ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: Where are we, in terms of these programmes that you are giving us?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: Do we still have the RDP houses?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, take your seat. You are out of order. Continue, hon Zwane.

Ms L L ZWANE: Whatever you want to call it.

The objective of the Finance Linked Individual Subsidy Programme, Flisp, is to reduce the initial ...


Ms T J MOKWELE: So, do you want to tell me that you didn’t hear her? “Whatever you want to call it”.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Yes. What did she say?

Ms T J MOKWELE: You didn’t hear? [Interjections.]


A o raya gore ga o a utlwa sepe?


You’ll go to the Hansard?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Yes.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Oh. It’s fine. I’m packing, then. I am ...


Ke a di boloka, a o a bona?


... and then, when I come back ...



MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M C Dikgale): O boloka eng ka gore ga se go bolele motho?

Moh T J MOKWELE: A ga o a utlwa mme fa a re ...


... whatever you might call it?


MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M C Dikgale): O a mpotšiša?


Moh T J MOKWELE: Nyaa, ke kopa gore o nkarabe. Ke botsa wena gore a ga o a mo utlwa gonne o buetse mo segwageng.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane, please address the member through the Chair.

Ms L L ZWANE: Alright. Thank you, Chairperson. I understand.

Ms T J MOKWELE: [Inaudible.]


Ms L L ZWANE: The Flisp is targeted at households whose monthly income is R3 501 to R15 000. It is meant to assist the beneficiaries to acquire ownership of an existing residential property, or obtain a serviced site, or build a new house with the assistance of home builders who are registered with the National Home Builders Registration Council. The amount of the subsidy that can be issued to qualifying beneficiaries would be between R20 000 and R87 000.

Between 1994 and 2014, an estimated 3,7 million subsidised housing opportunities have been delivered to the poor. This has provided homes to approximately 12,5 million people in South Africa. Central to the housing opportunities was the home owners’ opportunity to receive their title deeds that the hon Minister spoke about earlier on.

The initial aim of the housing subsidy programme was to provide housing to poor South Africans. However, in the early 2000s, the programme expanded on this aim, to enable beneficiaries to build wealth by using their houses as an asset. Thus, it becomes crucial to formally transfer the title deeds to beneficiaries as swiftly and as efficiently as possible in order to fulfil the objective of using houses to build wealth.


Prior to the ANC taking over, people did not have title deeds. Prior to the ANC-led government taking over, the people did not have formal ownership of their properties. They were lifted out of poverty by the ANC-led government, because it has a vision. It is also encouraging that the Medium-Term Strategic Framework of the department has prioritised the issue of the transfer of title deeds.

Let me focus my attention on KwaZulu-Natal. The provision of houses in the eThekwini Metropolitan Municipality – and in any other municipality in KwaZulu-Natal - is one of the biggest priorities.
The current backlog in the eThekwini metro is estimated at 390 000 units. The municipality has an annual housing delivery rate of between 4 000 and 6 000 housing units in any given financial year. It is estimated that the cost involved to clear the backlog is approximately R51 billion. This is a huge amount of money.

While this is an issue of serious concern, there have been serious efforts, within the constraints of the finances, where the municipality has embarked on initiatives to ensure an improved quality of life in the informal settlements, over the short term. This includes the installation of ablution blocks with male and female toilets, showers, refuse removal services, pedestrian walkways, storm water drainage channels, and access roads.


A large-scale, new, integrated development is under construction close to Umhlanga, roughly 7km south of the King Shaka International Airport. This is a joint venture between the eThekwini Metropolitan Municipality and Tongaat Hulett. It is likely to be the largest integrated human settlement initiative in the province, covering roughly 1 300 hectares. The project will involve the construction of mixed use that the hon Mampuru referred to, mixed-income developments, including 2,5 million m2, industrial and commercial bulk, and residential and open spaces. The project will include affordable and sustainable housing that offers houses and options to a range of income groups, with the potential to accommodate 24 000 units, upon completion. Siyaquba!

Let me address the issues raised by my colleagues who participated in the debate here. Some of them were very sensible and made a contribution that we, the ANC, could listen to. However, some of them were really just out of tune. There is nothing we could pick up from what they said during the debate.

Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, who has just left, it is hypocrisy that we drive with you every day, to and fro, in and out of Cape Town, and you say the people that are sleeping under the bridges are being taken care of. You pretend as though you don’t see the magnitude of the problem. Much as it is not a problem unique to the Western Cape,


the fact of the matter is the function of housing development is a concurrent one. The Western Cape government has been given money through an equitable share allocation to provide houses.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, I appeal to both the ANC and DA members to stop this matter of using our people’s needs in their political interests.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You should have told us, hon member ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: Both the DA and the ANC ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms MC Dikgale): Hon member ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: ... have failed to provide ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms MC Dikgale): Hon member, hon member!

Ms T J MOKWELE: ... quality houses to our people ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, I will switch off your microphone.


Ms T J MOKWELE: Please. We cannot ... I always listen to these things. I am appealing ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele!

Ms T J MOKWELE: Both the ANC and ... [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, take your seat.

Ms T J MOKWELE: No. [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, you know you cannot do that. Take your seat. Take your seat so that the hon member may continue, and please, don’t repeat that, hon Mokwele.
Continue, hon member Zwane.

Ms T J MOKWELE: [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, you are drowning out the speaker!

Ms L L ZWANE: Thank you, Chairperson ...


Ms T J MOKWELE: You are using our people!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele! The speaker is protected.

Ms L L ZWANE: The hon Ngwenya has left the House. Yes, we acknowledge the fact that there are backlogs, but at least be fair enough to acknowledge the fact that, up to the point we took over, there were no housing subsidy schemes by any previous governments, other than the ANC. Building 3,7 million houses is no small matter. Be fair in terms of the efforts by the ANC-led government.

The corruption issues that you are raising ...

Ms N P KONI: [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member Zwane ...

Ms N P KONI: You know ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, let me request the following of you: If ever you want to say whatever you want to say, please stand up or raise your hand.


Ms N P KONI: No, wait. I am standing on a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele! Hon Koni, listen to me. I am addressing you.

Ms N P KONI: Alright. Are you threatening me, or are you addressing me?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): I am not threatening you. I am addressing you.

Ms N P KONI: Then why do you want to insinuate what I am about to say? Why don’t you first listen to me and then you can rule after that?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, we need to know


Ms N P KONI: Stop intimidating us.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): We need to know why you are standing. You must tell us whether you are standing on a point of order ...


Ms N P KONI: I said “on a point of order”. I said it! I said “on a point of order”, Chair. I said it. Stop intimidating us.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, before you continue. I am asking you ... or I am going to request you ...

Ms N P KONI: How many times must I answer you? I said I am standing on a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, listen to me! I have been listening to you. I am requesting you that immediately when you say something, you must get permission first. You cannot just stand up and start talking without being allowed.

Ms N P KONI: I said “on a point of order”. You opened the microphone.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, are you listening to me?

Ms N P KONI: Alright, do you recognise me now?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Yes.


Ms N P KONI: Thank you, Chairperson. I was standing on a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the point of order?

Ms N P KONI: The eyes of the Chief Whip are intimidating. He doesn’t enjoy these points of order. [Interjections.] If he doesn’t enjoy us exercising our rights in terms of the Rules of this House, then he can excuse himself. Chairperson, this is my point of order now: The speaker at the podium is misleading this House and South Africa because she is talking about the ANC when it inherited a government from the apartheid regime.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You are repeating what your colleague did.

Ms N P KONI: She says “we”. However, at that time, she was a member of the IFP, so I don’t know who she refers to when she says “we”.
She must say when “they” inherited. Thank you, Chairperson.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, you are repeating what your hon member was doing. Please, please, hon Koni, take your seat. Take your seat, hon Koni. That is not a point of order, and please don’t repeat that. Continue, hon member.


Ms L L ZWANE: Indeed, I was a member of the party you are referring to, and I am not afraid of anything about it.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, address the member through me! [Interjections.]

Ms L L ZWANE: The corruption issues that the hon member Ngwenya raised are being attended to. In President Cyril Ramaphosa’s state of the nation address, he said the priority issue of this ANC-led government will be to look into issues of corruption. Whoever is involved will bear the consequences of their actions. [Interjections.]

The in situ upgrading is taking place in the traditional authority areas, and it is not true that those people are being neglected.
There is in situ upgrading there, as we speak. In KwaZulu-Natal, in almost all the AmaXhosa areas, there are houses being built in rural areas. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon Koni!

Ms L L ZWANE: With regard to community residential units, CRUs, the Department of Human Settlements has delivered 2 460 CRUs in some local municipalities, including the eThekwini Metropolitan


Municipality, so the upgrading of the hostels is an ongoing programme.

Hon Maseko, as the chairperson of Human Settlements in your province, you should know that the beneficiary list is the duty of the local municipality or metropolitan municipality. It has nothing to do with the national department. It has nothing to do with the province. It is an issue of the metropolitan municipality, driven by the councillors. It is submitted to the province for concurrence ... [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: On a point of order ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, I cannot allow you to debate from the floor.

Ms T J MOKWELE: No, she is misleading the House, Chairperson. The list of military veterans ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Take your seat, hon Mokwele!

Ms T J MOKWELE: ... lies with the relevant department.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Take your seat! Take your seat, hon Mokwele!

Ms T J MOKWELE: She must not mislead the House.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, you must not debate from the chair you are seated in. Continue, hon Zwane.

Ms L L ZWANE: Hon Gaehler, the issue of workmanship, it is in the programme ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, I am giving you a very last warning.

Ms T J MOKWELE: It was the very last word.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you.

Ms L L ZWANE: The issue of shoddy workmanship is an issue currently being addressed. Those contractors that have not delivered quality services are going to be removed from a list of contractors that can be appointed. Thank you, hon Sotashe.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane, take your seat. The hon member Gaehler?

Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, will the member take a question? I need clarity.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Let’s ascertain first. Hon Zwane, are you ready to take a question?

Ms L L ZWANE: I am not. I am not.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): She is not ready, hon Gaehler.

Ms L L ZWANE: I am not willing. [Interjections.] Thank you for your determination to ensure that you deal with this issue of the Spatial Planning and Land Use Management Act because the issue of land is critical if we are to deliver adequate and quality housing for our people.

Ms T J MOKWELE: There I agree with you!

Ms L L ZWANE: Hon Engelbrecht ...


An HON MEMBER: She ran away!

Ms L L ZWANE: Alright. The 600% that you are talking about is the legacy of apartheid. [Interjections.] Had you started building houses earlier and exercised justice and fairness, we would not be in the mess we are today. [Interjections.] The ANC-led government is busy mopping up the mess you made of your oppressive system. [Interjections.] It is the legacy left by your own forebears.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon members! [Interjections.] Continue, hon member. [Interjections.]

Ms L L ZWANE: Please, before you can think of tackling problems in South Africa, you must begin by tackling problems here in the Western Cape. South Africa is much bigger than the Western Cape.
Lastly, Chairperson, this issue of ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane, your time has expired.

Ms L L ZWANE: The issue of parties, we support the budget, but the issue of parties that reject the budget ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Your time has expired! Hon Zwane!

Ms L L ZWANE: ... and collect salaries is hypocritical! [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane, you can’t continue!

Ms L L ZWANE: Thank you. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mangethe, I am going to request you not to repeat what you did. Thank you very much, hon Minister of Human Settlements. [Interjections.] Hon Zwane! Hon Zwane. Hon members! Hon members! Hon members, would you please respect the hon Minister. She is on the podium. Hon Mathebula! Hon Mathebula! This is the last item ...


... banabešo, nke le kgotleleleng hle. Kgotlelelang la mafelelo. [Tsenoganong.] Kgotlelelang. [Tsenoganong.]



The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson and hon members ... [Interjections.] ... as well as horrible members.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members! Hon Tebogo, do you want to go out? [Interjections.] Allow the Minister to continue with the debate. Continue, hon Minister. Oh, hon Minister, take your seat.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: There is an established convention in the House that we should attach high significance on debates of this nature. So, we are appealing that the Minister be allowed to conclude the debate on a very important subject of human settlements, please.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you, Chief Whip. Continue, hon Minister.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Thank you Chairperson and Chief Whip ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, no. Hon Koni. Hon Koni. Hon Koni. [Interjections.]


Aowa banna. Mme Zwane!


Hon Zwane! [Interjections.] Hon Zwane! Hon Zwane! Hon Zwane! [Interjections.] Hon Zwane! Hon Zwane! [Interjections.] Hon Zwane! Hon Zwane! Hon Koni and hon Zwane, please leave the House. Leave the House. Hon Wana, leave the hon member, she wants to go home. Hon Koni, join her. [Interjections.] Hon Koni. Hon Koni, leave the House. [Interjections.]

Ms N P KONI: Don’t start me! [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members. Hon members. Hon members, order. I have noticed that ... hon Stock ... Listen to me, hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana. I have noticed that whenever I am on this chair people just do as they wish. Please respect the chair. Don’t look at my position - your behaviour should not be influenced by that, please. Continue, hon Minister.

Ms L L ZWANE: Thank you very much, House Chairperson. House Chairperson, with the three minutes I have ...

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Sorry, Minister. [Inaudible.] I am from the bathroom.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): No, I am not talking to you, mama. [Laughter.] Okay, hon Minister, sorry. [Interjections.] Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, take your seat mma. I was addressing all the members because there was something that was happening here and you were out.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Yes, please keep quite. Keep quite because you are just from the outside. Allow the Minister to continue with the debate. Thank you, mma. Okay, continue, hon Minister.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: House Chairperson, with the three minutes I have I want to thank hon Zwane for replying to some of the questions. I am just saying that there is a lot that have been said here and I noted them. Most of them are very constructive and I think my attitude is that you don’t politicise issues, that need to be done by all of us. Therefore, whenever I come to sessions like this, I want to gain from what members are saying, be it my party or other parties. I don’t think that we have time to politicise, in particular, the housing issues.


All I can say is that I have listened; I have heard some of the challenges and I have heard members who have been complaining about what is not happening in their constituencies, I can safely say that if after reporting to your municipality and the province there is still no change, you can report to me. There are under 100 people who write directly to me and report that something in their area is not changing. I have a team, a very vibrant team that goes immediately to those places to find out if what I am told is true and if so, we intervene. My advice is that, instead of coming here and politicising it, do the right thing and write to me if you have already contacted your municipality and the province. There are a lot of things that I don’t even want to touch because I will also be politicising. The question of shelter was highlighted today. Shelter also means shelter for everybody, including those people who sleep on the streets. It is our responsibility, from local government to national government to make sure, in particular, that this winter we find a place for those people to sleep. They can’t sleep in the open.

Lastly, we are all saying that we want our people to be settled in a well located land where there are benefits, where there is employment and where it is easy to walk to work. Let us practice that. In fact, I am hoping that for some people, instead of doing that, they are doing the opposite.

My colleagues in Western Cape, we must really think very carefully about finalising District Six restitution process, and about moving people out of Woodstock; we are saying we should move them to a well located land. We must think about BoKaap - about prioritising when we have a piece of land. We rather build homes for our people that are well located instead of lending it or leasing it to a private builder. I think if you do this and we all hold hands, we wouldn’t be saying the same thing in the next budget. Thank you very much, House Chair

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): I really want to thank some people here. Let me first thank the Ministers for availing themselves into our House today. I also thank the hon members who respect this House and continue to respect it because this goes out there - to the people who are watching us 24 hours. I am going to make the last request. I have noticed that when the Chair of the Council is on the chair, these hon members do not do what they are doing today. So, it was not by mistake that I am on this chair, it is because the Deployment Committee had trust in me. Hon members, I am really thankful.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 18:36.