Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 09 Nov 2017


No summary available.




The House met at 14:00.

HOUSE CHAIRPERSON Ms M G Boroto took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.


(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you very much House Chair. Maybe before I read this motion, let’s thank all our colleagues in the Chief Whip’s Forum who we have consulted on this motion. Again, thanks for their understanding in allowing us to put this motion to the House.

Hon House Chair, we move that this House elects Mrs Y N Phosa to preside during today’s sitting of the House when requested to do so by a presiding officer.

Motion agreed to.


There was no debate.


move that the Report be adopted.

Declaration(s) of Vote:

Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Thank you. Chairperson and members, who would’ve thought that this government would be neglecting our youth, particularly the poor and rural youth, and choose to focus on the elite. The budget of the Department of Higher Education and Training is slanting more and more towards university funding while in-service training, technical vocational education and

training, TVET, colleges and continuing education is getting a smaller percentage of the budget.

To illustrate, government undertook in the 2014-19 Medium-Term Strategic Framework to grow the number of students in the TVET sector from 670 000 to 1,2 million in 2019. Since then, priorities have changed and all signs are that this important and significant goal will not be achieved in the next two years. The headcount at TVET colleges is expected to remain at about 700 000 students.

What is more, our public TVET colleges received only 61,6% of the budgets for this lowered figure. Worse, the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, is extremely slow to transfer monies due for students’ fees to the colleges. This is causing extreme hardships to colleges and eventually students that rely on this money for transport, meals and accommodation.

We know that the throughput rate for students at TVET colleges is a matter of concern. We are also concerned about the small number of students at continuing

education and training centres. We don’t know how bad the situation is as the portfolio committee was informed that this information is not available.

If it was deemed important, it would’ve been resolved long ago. The Auditor-General confirmed that it was impossible to check the accuracy of the reported performance information.

Our country is in dire need of young artisans and the target was to deliver 30 000 qualified artisans per annum. We are only producing 60% of this. This budgetary report has had to be rushed through the committee. It was presented and adopted at the same meeting. The DA cannot support this.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Thank you Madam Chair. Fees can and must fall. The EFF will reject all reports tabled by the Department of Higher Education until the report recommends that free quality higher education for all be implemented immediately.

The government, that is willing to spend R1 trillion on a nuclear deal and that has allowed the Guptas to steal billions of rand from the country and is considering bailing out state-owned enterprises, SOEs, with Public Investment Corporation, PIC, money, has the money to fund free quality education for all.

South Africa’s taxpayers’ money must be used for the current and future benefits of people of South Africa and not so that ubaba Duduzane can get rich. Students throughout the country know this and that is why they continue to struggle for the attainment of free quality education for all.

We support all students in this struggle because we know it is possible. Free education today; Economic freedom tomorrow! Amandla! We reject this report.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. ANC? Oh, IFP. Hon members, if you are going to make a declaration could you please occupy the seat while the other speaker is at the podium?

Mr N SINGH: Thank you hon Chairperson. I was expecting my member on Higher Education to occupy ... where I’m standing but he is not here. Having said that, I think the real problem with having no fees at higher education is the amount of corruption that is taking place within government. If we are to save the kind of money that’s just being wasted — fruitless, irregular, wasteful expenditure — then our students would certainly be able to benefit from free higher education.

We know that South Africa needs to develop a skills base that would ensure that our younger people seek employment in the world of work. I think the employment amongst the youth is the highest in the world if you compare it to standards of other countries. It’s about the highest, and if we do not keep the youth gainfully employed and engaged then we are certainly going to have problems moving forward.

I think we hear of other countries – western countries and even African countries – where they place a lot of emphasis – Cuba itself has placed a lot of emphasis — on

educating the youth ... free education, and that’s something we need to do.

However, we have got to get our basics right because even at a primary or secondary level of education the conditions and the environment is not conducive for those that did not benefit pre-1994 from getting good education. They still find themselves in dire straits.

We have got to get trained teachers, we have got to have proper infrastructure and we have got to have proper skilling at primary and secondary education levels so that when our young people go to tertiary institutions they could use their foundation to develop themselves into better human beings and people that can place themselves in the world of work.

So, as the IFP we are seriously concerned that this report has not as yet been made publically available and that our students at tertiary institutions will continue to suffer because they will not have enough resources to be able to pursue their dreams.

Prof N M KHUBISA: Thank you very much House Chairperson. The Department of Higher Education and Training has the responsibility to ensure that our young people have the opportunity to further their education after completing matric. This is the department responsible for forging the nature and scope of our future professionals, entrepreneurs and artisans. It was allocated
R64,4 billion in the 2016-17 financial year to implement its mandate.

Apportioning the budget, the ... [Inaudible.] ... share is allocated to universities following the fees must fall campaign. However, there is great uncertainty on how university fees will be structured in the 2018 academic year. The NFP repeats its call for the President of the Republic to release the content of the Heher Commission report as a matter of urgency.

Time is of the essence as our universities and TVET colleges have to prepare for the 2018 intake and registration, and this report must therefore be released as a matter of urgency.

If the report is not released soon, we will be faced with chaos at the start of the next academic year with massive disruptions and widespread discontent.

We know that the department’s overall performance on its service-delivery targets has been increasing over the three-year period from 2014-15 to 2016-17. However, it does not leave room for improvement ... Sorry, as is currently reported at an achievement rate of 80, which is commendable. But it does not leave room for improvement.

We do however share the concern of the committee about the nonachievement of the planned targets in the core delivery ... [Inaudible.] ... in TVET colleges.

Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Thank you very much House Chair. As the ANC we of course rise in support of the budgetary review and recommendations, BRRR, report. This report was indeed adopted in the committee. We all know there are timelines within which we have to adopt these reports so it cannot be said that we have simply rushed through this report.
Indeed, various members, including the opposition, largely the DA, submitted substantial additional

recommendations which are included in this report. I’m not sure if we must now reject that also.

We have to look at what the report actually sent us. The report tells us the following. There was an increase in the allocation of NSFAS of 11,382 billion, which was in 2016-17, from what we had in 2015-16 which was
6,448 billion. That certainly is not the elite we are talking about. Those are the poor and working class people.

At TVET colleges we had the target that had to be ensured of 200 000 qualifying students ... are funded and that was exceeded. Certainly those at TVET colleges are not the elite. The skills development sector achieved
148 517. The target was 120 000. Those are work-based learnership opportunities that are there. Certainly they are not the elite. They are the poorest of the poor in the country. A 21 188; the target was 21 110.

Again, new qualified artisans per annum was 30 804 where the target was 30. So certainly we agree that we must

support this thing. We equally ask that the report of the Heher Commission be released.

Question Put.

Motion agreed to. (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.


There was no debate.

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, National Freedom Party, African Independent Congress and African National Congress.

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: House Chairperson, I move:

That the Report be adopted.

Declaration(s) of vote

Ms L V JAMES: Hon Speaker, it is evident that there are major challenges within the South African health care system. It has time and again been shown that various provincial departments are in shambles. The Life of Esidimeni crisis as well as the KwaZulu-Natal oncology crisis is a clear indication that the Department of Health is failing South Africans.

In response, to a DA parliamentary question, the Minister revealed that there is several staff shortages in the public sector. These 38 000 vacancies put a traditional strain on the existing personnel, which are already overworked. This is one of the reason why the medical negligence claims have skyrocketed the massive amount of R2,6 billion in the past four years.

Infrastructure is a major concern, out of 44 community health centres which were planned to be constructed and revitalised, only 22 were completed. Out of the eight hospitals that were planned to be constructed or

revitalised, only three were completed. The department is not reaching more that half of its goals when it comes to the infrastructure. This is very worrying as the vast majority of South Africans have to suffer inadequate health facilities.

It is actually shocking that irregular expenditure at the National Health Service, NHS, has increased by
R990 million in just one year. Even more shocking is the fact that its deficit increased by R2,2 billion over the same period from a surplus R273 million the previous year.

The NHS is obviously in serious financial trouble and questions must also be asked about each financial management and how it got to such serious levels in just one year. We need urgent intervention by the Minister, the DA urgency and his department to carry out their mandate to ensure that South Africans get the health care that they deserve. I thank you.

Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the

Department of Health. Our main priority now as a nation should be to ensure that we get the National Health Insurance working to provide quality health care for the millions of black people, who are presently without medical aid. We need to completely abolish the dual nature of our health system. One private providing good services and only for the middle class and the rich, while on the other hand we have public hospitals which are death concentration camps for the majority.

To do this we need to start investing on improving the quality of public health care in this country. This must include a qualitative massification of health provision across the length and breadth of this country. It will entail zero tolerance to corruption. This report shows us that the Auditor-General noted that the National Health laboratory service had incurred irregular expenditure to the amount of R1 billion; that provincial departments, such as Mpumalanga, incurred irregular expenditure to the amount of 1,5 billion; more over David Mabuza the corrupt agent of destruction ... [Interjections.] is rewarded with a promise of being a President by Duduzane’s

stepmother. The ANC rewards corruption and we cannot tolerate it in the EFF. [Time expired]. Thank you.

Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, firstly I do not serve on this committee but I have read the report in detail. I say, as the IFP, we associate ourselves with the recommendations in the report. It is a report that spends 30 pages and we just hope that these recommendation are just not nice words written on paper, but these are recommendations that the hon Minister really needs to follow up and his work is cut out for him.

I just want to highlight two issues; one is in relation to the National Health Laboratory Service. We see in this report that the National Health and Nutrition Survey, NHNS, generated a deficit amounting to R1,88 billion compared to R273 million surplus in the previous financial year. Now, this is certainly a cause for concern and I think two of the provinces are in addition to Mpumalanga, Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal are just not paying the amount of money that they should be paying to the National Health Laboratory Services, NHLS. The department really needs to sit with the provincial

departments and with Treasury to come up with an acceptable model so that these departments pay what is due. What happens is service delivery has been compromised when the NHLS does not get all the money.

The second area that I have picked up in this report is that in some instances and in some of the programmes the money has been spent. Hundred percent of the money allocated to that programme has been spent but when one looks at the performance indicators they down to 70%. Now something is wrong there. If one cannot achieve your performance targets but yet you spending all your money. Therefore, is it that the money is going into somebody pocket.

Lastly, I think we need to do more about the prevalence of the HIV and aids in our country. There seems to be slow down, more and more people are contracting this disease and it is possibly because we are placing more emphasis on the curative side rather than the prevention side. We had ABC we forgotten about that and we need to accelerate that programme. Thank you.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Chairperson, I’m presenting this report on behalf of my colleague, hon Emam, who serves in the committee. The good work and performance of the department during previous months has unfortunately been overshadowed by the sad loss of life which unfolded in the Life of Esidimeni tragedy. This dark cloud of shame will hang around the neck of the department for a very long time but that should not destruct us from the many gains the department continues to make.

In its quest to bring quality affordable health care for all our people, we agree with committee in ageing the department to improve its audit outcomes and aspire to achieve a clean audit and to put measures and system in place to minimise and eradicate all forms of unauthorised wasteful and fruitless expenditure. We also agree that the departments should make every effort to improve oversight over provincial departments regarding the implementation of the Auditor-General recommendations, in particular those relating to the management of pharmaceuticals, the use and maintenance of equipments and infrastructure as well as their information technology.

More over in light of Life of Esidimeni Tragedy, we fully endorse the recommendation that the department must ensure improved oversight over provincial departments regarding the implementation of mental health policy framework and strategic plan of 2013-20. The NFP implores the department to take heed of detailed recommendation the committee has made with regard to the entities of the department.

It is imperative that the entities performed at optimal capacity in support of the massive challenges facing the department to bring quality affordable health care for all our people. We support the report.

Mr S M JAFTA: Chair, I should mention from the onset that I have not been party to some of the discussions through which this report emanates from. However, I have had pleasure of sitting in this committee many a time. The report of the committee highlights a consolation of achievements and challenges by the department. The department has tentatively been hard at work, for instance the Auditor-General’s reports made the following findings: that the department had spent all of its

budget, yet, only achieved 55% of its objective. This cannot be allowed.

We believe that the mental health standards have to improve across the board. The Esidimeni episode was a function of poor workforce norms and standards arising from the private health care givers this time around.

The implementation of Key performance Indicators, KPIs, by senior government managers should be closely monitored by heads of the departments, HOD’s.

The health facilities in the provinces are deplorable. The report refers to this are normally extensively. Our concerns have always centres around the enormous powers that are granted to the MECs in the provinces. The irregular expenditure that provinces incurred cannot be tolerated. This has the negative effect of affecting the quality of health services.

We propose the following in this regard: that section 25

(1) of the NHIA ... We support the report. Thank you. [Time expired.]


Nks M L DUNJWA: Sihlalo weNdlu yoWiso-mthetho namalungu ahloniphekileyo, masibulele amaqela ezopolitiko aye athatha inxaxheba ekomitini ayamkela nengxelo yekomiti. Usizi lelokuba umntu ayamkele ingxelo ekomitini kodwa xa efika kule Ndlu ayikhabe. Okubalulekileyo singatsho ukuba isebe lizile phambi kwekomiti ngomhla we-10 yenyanga yeThupha layibeka ingxelo yalo, sayamkela kodwa ke ...


... we criticised in areas where we think that the department is very weak on them. The Auditor-General raised a couple of issues that were quite a challenge in the report, which among those was the management of the pharmaceutical, the maintenance of the medical equipment, the infrastructure and the information technology.


Kufana ke nezikhewu ezingaba zikhona kwi ...


Human resource, HR, area of the department of health in this sector we are, and we accept that that is a challenge.


Siyavuya kuba amaphondo amane kubandakanya nesebe zithe



... they had unqualified report.


Into ebalulekileyo yeyokuba iFree State iye yasebenza kakuhle kakhulu.

Siyile komiti ke nombutho we-ANC siyayamkela le ngxelo kwaye siyavuma ukuba isebe linabo ubuthathaka. Kufuneka siyazi kodwa ukuba apho ezempilo zikhona zisemaphondweni. Sinexhala ke siyi-ANC kwaye sinikezele kwinto yokuba siza kuqinisekisa ukuba isebe lenza uhlolo lincedise amasebe kunye nabaphathiswa bamasebe nabo basezikhundleni eziphezulu. Kwakhona kufuneka baqinisekise ukuba izithuba

ezikhoyo ziyavalwa. Kwakhona siyaphinda sithi i-ANC iyayamkela le ngxelo. Enkosi.


Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting). Report accordingly adopted.





Mr S LUZIPHO: House Chair, I will try to be a political octopus and present five reports for adoption by the

House, by this National Assembly, on the study tour in Australia; the oversight visit we had in the North West; the oversight visit that encompassed three provinces – Gauteng, Limpopo and Mpumalanga; as well as the oversight visit in the Free State.

In each of these reports, the observations of and recommendations by the committee are included. These are intended to ensure that the department improves in its capacity to deliver on its mandate. Whilst we must continue to commend the work that is being done, we are of the view that there is still a lot to be done.

With regard to the oversight visit in the North West, specifically focused on junior mining, we are of the view that junior miners are facing serious challenges with regard to the issue of exploration on their companies in order to be one of the established in the mining sector. They continue to be the future of the mining industry but due to limitations in relation to financial backup, they are unable to live up to their expectations.

It is in this context, therefore, that we are of the view that there is a need to pay specific attention to ensure that that is an industry that grows. This is particularly so with regard to black entrepreneurs. Most importantly, what we have said is when you look in relation to the role that is being played by big mining companies, with some of them we have said there is a need to ensure that we change the rules because, whilst they continue to assist with funding, the flipside is they want to determine the appointment of members to the board. They also want to determine the projects that must be undertaken but, on the other hand, don’t want to be liable for the failures of the project that would have been under their guidance.

With regard to the oversight visit in the Free State, we specifically focused on the question of illegal mining. One of the many recommendations we are making is that there is a need to develop a comprehensive strategy that first looks at the question of small-scale mining. On the other hand, it must also attend to the question that we think relates to the protection of the country’s borders. It must also be on the basis of ensuring that whatever is

there in terms of mining, a strategy is in place for government to make direct interventions.

With regard to the oversight visits in Gauteng and Mpumalanga, amongst the issues is the unresolved matter of Lily Mine. We are of the view that no nation can survive, no nation can live, when three mineworkers are still unaccounted for. On that basis, we say that we must do everything in our power and use everything at our disposal to retrieve the bodies of those Lily Mine mineworkers. Most importantly, the results of the inquiry must be made public so that those who are responsible face the consequences.

Lastly, on the study tour in Australia, it is important to note the observations we made. Some of the mining companies that we have in this country do trade, and must comply with the laws and legislation of the state, especially those of South Australia. We expect a similar exercise here. The level of co-operation between the state, the financial institutions, the institutions of higher learning and investors in the mining industry are good examples we can learn from.

On that note, I present these reports for adoption by the House, and obviously, we do say there is still a lot that needs to be done. I thank you very much.

There was no debate.

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Reports be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Mr J R B LORIMER: Madam House Chair, these reports cover a range of oversight visits, which, taken together, speak volumes about the situation in our mining industry, what’s wrong with it and what we need to do to fix it.

The visit to Australia was extremely valuable. Here we went from our country, rated 74th most attractive destination for mining investors, to the 3rd most attractive mining jurisdiction of Western Australia – not South Australia. So, it was an opportunity to get ideas on what we should be doing. This report has some valuable recommendations, but too late, the Minister and the

department have already moved decisively in the opposite direction.

The report says there needs to be urgent action to support the mining industry. Instead, in the High Court in Pretoria, today, is the first of two, big legal cases involving the Chamber of Mines, which represents 90% of mining operations, and the department. Today’s battle concerns the once-empowered, always-empowered principle of BEE ownership.

Here’s the second recommendation of the committee report. It states there needs to be a new, co-operative relationship between government and the private sector.
Well, that’s not working well. The Minister, in contrast to this, has introduced Mining Charter III, which will bring the industry to its knees. Since his announcement, more than 25 000 jobs have either gone or are in the process of going, and R51 billion in value was wiped off the share prices of mining companies.

However, the ANC will tell you that’s fine, as we will have greater levels of black ownership of the industry.

Do the maths: 30% of nothing is nothing. If this causes the industry to collapse, it doesn’t matter how big the BEE share, it will be worthless. Not even your cronies will be enriched.

The West Australian government told us they understood that every mine was in business to make a profit and said their attitude, as officials, was to help every miner make a profit, within the rules. They know that’s how investment and jobs keep coming. Contrast that to South Africa, where the Department of Mineral Resources treats miners like hostile invaders. Is it any wonder mining companies are fleeing and job losses are mounting?

Here is another recommendation from the Australian visit report. The groundwork done by Mining Phakisa must be taken forward. Everyone knows what happened at Mining Phakisa – or we don’t, actually. We keep being assured it was a great success. So, why is there no report, even after two years? Could it be that there was so little agreement that the whole exercise was a waste of time?

There are some common themes in these reports. One is that illegal mining is gutting the industry and undercutting respect for the rules. It took the department a year to really properly start acting against illegal chrome miners in Limpopo. Now, that is either incompetence, or officials are really scared of the gangsters who are running these operations, or the gangsters are enjoying support right from the top – and by the top, I mean even in this House. [Interjections.]

Whatever the reason, we heard on the Free State visit that there are more than 10 00 illegal miners underground in the old workings at any one time – 10 000! There’s a lot of talk about it but very little action. I’m convinced that, despite the calls for a plan from the Department of Mineral Resources, that are recommended in this report, nothing effective will happen.

The report on North West is both good and bad – good in the sense that it recognises the difficulties of new entrants into the mining industry to get a foothold. Part of that is the difficulty in raising capital. Another

part of that is the thicket of regulations that they have to negotiate in order to start up.

Unfortunately, this report explains the problem well, but then it recommends solutions that won’t help. It states we must force landowners to lower their rents charged to miners – more government intervention and less empowering of land-rights holders is exactly what causes traditional communities to lose out in mining. There seems to be very little recognition that local communities and holders of land-rights need to benefit properly from mining happening on their land. State intervention, almost uniformly, has adverse results for everybody. We must cut regulation, not add to it.

This shouldn’t just be a discussion about isolated and theoretical points of difference. These themes are playing out in the closure of the Cooke gold mine, just a few days ago, and 7 000 people lost their jobs. Cooke epitomises what is going on in the industry. It’s been plagued by illegal underground mining.

In common with all the major mining houses that are left in South Africa, the uncertainty caused by the Mining Charter and the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act have diverted the company’s interests elsewhere. Clearly, they have no more appetite for the risks posed by South African mining. They’ve decided it’s just not worth carrying on with a marginal mine.

We will support three of these reports and vote against some of the recommendations of the North West report. [Applause.]

Mr T RAWULA: Chairperson, in Limpopo, two mineworkers died in Bokoni Mine near Burgersfort, and another in the mine’s Brakfontein shaft. Shortly after the Bokoni incident, the mine fired all its 2 600 employees because the mine wanted to install machines under the guise of mine and care maintenance.

In March this year, two mineworkers died after they were crushed by a machine at the Matla Mine, Mpumalanga. This is after 16 mineworkers have died in Mpumalanga this year alone, in other mines. In July, three miners were killed

in a mine in Orkney, North West after an accident that could have been prevented.

In the Free State province, at the Eland Shaft mine in Welkom, 24 mineworkers were killed. To date, the police investigation has failed to provide answers to what caused the accidents, and no one is held accountable. On Monday this week, the Chamber of Mines reported that a total of 76 mineworkers have been killed in 2017, compared to the 73 reported in 2016.

This is the state of mining in South Africa. Mining companies continue to make profits. Mineworkers continue to earn peanuts and get killed in the process, and South Africa benefits very little.


Simane sintyontyelana sisithatha utyelelo lokuhlola sibiza imali enkulu kube kungekho nguqu eyenzekayo emigodini. Siyi-EFF sithi izimbiwa mazifakwe phantsi korhulumente ukuze abantu bakuthi nabo bazuze ngokuthi sibe noshishino olululo oluzakudala imisebenzi ebantwini bakuthi.

Sithi ke abo bathi loo nto yokufakwa kwezimbiwa phantsi korhulumente ayinakho ukwenzeka, loo nto bayithetha kuba bengoogxelesh’inqatha, oonozuswana ezibomvana abajongene nezisu zabo. Sithi izimbiwa ezi urhulumente wakuthi makazifake phantsi kwakhe ukudale imisebenzi ukuze abantu bethu babenemisebenzi basebenze.

Okwangoku imigodi, Bawo uGugile Nkwinti, iphantsi kwabo bazizuswana zimbomvana, abantu bakuthi baya kuhlala belamba bengafumani nto kwaphela, Bawo uSkwatsha. Sicela nicenganeni kaloku maqabane kuba yinto ekwakukudala siyilwela leyo. UMqulu wamaLungelo nawo utsho ukuba izimbiwa phezu komhlaba naphantsi ziza kubaphantsi korhulumente ukuze siqinisekise ukuba inxele likakhetsekile siyalinyanga kubantu bakuthi. Asiyi xhasi le ngxelo singumbutho we-EFF de nithathe izimbiwa, Bawo uGugile, nizinike urhulumente. Enkosi.


Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Hon Chair, I was not able to attend any of these oversight visits due to other parliamentary commitments. However, I would like to comment on the

committee’s findings in the provinces of North West, Gauteng, Limpopo and Mpumalanga.

I will begin with Bakubung Mine, in North West, 52% of which was owned by the community. Today, they only own 5% and there are sensitive and complex community disputes about this issue. This only confirms the continued failure to recognise mine-affected communities as stakeholders with legitimate interests and a right to be heard. As always, though, the interests of the elite trump those of the poor. Why is it that mine-affected communities are still missing from the negotiation tables, as well as being excluded from representation on the draft framework on sustainable mining?

In all provinces, the effects of illegal mining are distinctly apparent. Apart from the extreme danger to people conducting such practices in abandoned mines, it also costs the country more than R20 billion per year in lost revenue. The playing field as regards illegal mining has spread over more than 6 000 disused gold mines and other mines across South Africa. With about 10% of this country’s gold production being stolen and smuggled out

of the country, no wonder illegal mining is now identified as a national threat.

The communities’ proposals are very relevant and should stabilise this illegal industry’s negative social effects on nearby communities. Only by issuing permits and relaxing licensing conditions to accommodate small-scale mining, as the committee suggested, would we have some control over this out-of-control issue, which, by default, also employs thousands of people. I thank you.

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Chairperson, we welcome the report on the study tour to Australia. We trust that our hon members found it enlightening and that the experience gained there will be a valuable source of reference for them in debates in the near future. In particular, we trust that the exposure to Australian mining laws and practices, which are increasingly recognising the rights of the Aboriginal people, will be considered when exploring ways to ensure that all South Africans share in the mineral wealth of our country.

The oversight visit gives us first-hand insight into mining circumstances in the North West, Gauteng, Limpopo, Mpumalanga and the Free State provinces. The observations of the committee should give the department cause to pause and consider what steps it should take to address the concerns of the committee. We fully support the various recommendations contained in this report but it is impossible to single out any one recommendation.

Generally, the NFP shares in the concerns of the committee regarding mine safety and the need for more safety inspectors. Mining is, by nature, a very dangerous occupation and the mining industry shares an obligation with the department to ensure that the working conditions of miners are as safe as can be. It is important that the department and the mining industry should co-operate fully in the interests of our mineworkers. One life lost is one life too many.

We would also like to see a more real and more rapid transformation of the mining industry. The NFP has consistently advocated for a minimum of a 51% South African ownership of all our mines to ensure our people

benefit from our country’s rich mineral resources. For this transformation to accelerate, it’s imperative that our Mining Charter be finalised and implemented as soon as possible.

In conclusion, the NFP supports the adoption of the reports, as tabled here, today. I thank you.

Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, on a point of order: Where is Shaik Emam?


Yazi kushaya umoya engekho. I-NFP yenze kahle, eish! [Ubuwelewele.]

Declarations of vote:

Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chair, the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources undertook an all-embracing study tour to Australia in mid September. This tour was a research finding mission. The committee chose Australia because of its technologically advances in the mining sector. The Australian tour was a function of the emerging advances of brought about by the fourth industrial revolution. In

its wisdom, the committee took upon itself to interact with the Australian mining community. This was designed to improve the South African mining technology, especially the equipment for the extraction and processing of mineral resources. The understanding by the committee was that we needed to advance in scientific research and technological outputs. Moreover the committee understood the need to upscale innovative portfolio outputs in uplifting the lives of ordinary South Africans, especially by beneficiating local commodities.

The South Africa government has always benchmarked its health and safety measures against the international standards. Australia was a fitting outfit. The committee therefore wanted to improve our safety, health, quality and environmental policies in the mining sector.
Australia has the best safety, health, environment, and quality, Sheq, policies in the whole world.

This tour was therefore insightful. It was indeed not an exercise of wasteful expenditure. We have also established that the majority of engineers based in

Australia are South African born professionals. The debate that we may need to have in the near future is how best these skills and talents can be retained within our shores.

The striking differences between the South African mining sector and Australia are to be found in the location of the mines. In Australia, the mines are secluded and miles apart from residential properties. The health and safety of residents is guaranteed and no life is threatened by the toxic emissions. The Australians do rehabilitate their mines in ... {Time expired.]. We therefore support the reports.

Mr M H MATLALA: Hon Chair,...


Mohlomongwe ke šupetše gore ga se ra tla mo re le maloko a Palamente go robala mošomong. Se sengwe se ke se laetšago mo ke gore Kgoro ya Methopo ya Diminerale e hweditše pego yeo e sa hlakago ya ditšhelete [unqualified report]. Se se laetša gore boetapele bja kgoro ye ke bjo hlwahlwa mo Afrika-Borwa. E re ke šupetše gore ...


... the ANC, as a movement of the people understand the aspiration of a future South Africa. Our people have given the ANC a mandate to govern and to realise the strategic objective of a better life for all. Experience in our country and abroad has taught us that unless our government, with its overwhelming popular mandate, take decisive measures to transform the social and economic relations, it will be difficult for future generations to thrive as a nation united in its diversity. There is no sector in our economy, wherein the devastation rod by centuries of colonialism and apartheid is more evident than mining. The policies of successive colonial and apartheid regimes ensured that South Africa will remain a net exporter of raw material and import of furnish value at that goods.

As a result, unlike Australia, where mining has contributed massively to our industrialisation and development, South Africa has never realised its true potential economy. It was by design and not accident that our country has remained relatively underdeveloped with a small manufacturing base and a large unskilled labour.

This is the most critical factor that contributes to today’s chronic unemployment, poverty and equality. Through the oversight visit we have undertaken as a committee, we have witnessed that government has made a lot of progress in transforming the mining sector to reflect the demographics of our country in terms of ownership, control and management.

However, there are still many structural challenges that militate against thorough going transformation. These include the monopoly tendencies of the South Africa mining industry and inadequate support for new entrants such as junior miners. The system is still skewed in favour of big players, both local and foreign. There is a worrying trend of the declining employment as a result of decreasing mining activities in the Free State and other provinces.

Mining is such an integral part of our economy that its decline has a negative impact on other sectors.
Government is working with mining companies to support agricultural projects and this has had a positive effect of mitigating the impact falling mining output and

boosting diversification in the economy. Whilst these measures are welcome, South Africa is still on a treasure trove of resources beneath the soil that must be mined in order to grow our economy and create jobs. Our study tour to Australia has given us an insight into how a thriving mineral resources sector depends on a complex combination of factors including one technology, social and organisational factors.

With regard to the legal framework government policy and support for the geological survey function, South Africa is obviously different to Australia, hence we need to take into consideration our unique conditions and historical factors. We need to increase our skills base and boost investment in local beneficiation of minerals. One of the lessons learned in Australia is that the tertiary education sector has to work closely with the state and the mining industry to develop the critical research technological innovation and other skills that are needed. Illegal mining has to be brought under control as it leads to many social ills that put pressure on the state, particularly our policy services. For almost a decade now, illegal mining has become quite

prominent in Gauteng, Free State, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape provinces. Government has lost revenue that should go to development of our communities.

In conclusion, the South African economy benefited from high commodity prices in the previous decade. However, high value added and labour intensive export have slowed. The future of mining belongs to smaller mining operations that also do exploration. We need to bolster competitiveness and focus in areas of comparative advantage that can draw more people into work. As the ANC we have noticed a threat by some opposition parties, in particular, the DA and the EFF. They tend to prioritise overseas trips more than oversight visits in our country. [Interjections.] They also prefer to attend portfolio committee meetings where there are cameras and live broadcast where they will grandstand.

Mr M N PAULSEN: House Chair, on a point of order.

Mr M H MATLALA: ... maybe they want to be popstars of the future instead of doing the boring aspect of Parliament’s work.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, please take your seat, there is a point of order.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Hon House Chair, I suggest that the member ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): On what Rule are you rising?

Mr M N PAULSEN: I am rising on Rule 92. [Interjections.] I suggest that he stick to the topic and not discuss the EFF.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Okay. Hon member, the point of order is sustained. May you proceed?

Mr M H MATLALA: In conclusion, as the ANC we appreciate the co-operation from the Ministry and the Department of Mineral Resources for always being accountable and providing support to our portfolio committee. The ANC accept all the four reports. Thank you very much.

Question put.

Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, in Rule 27, on behalf of the official opposition, may we congratulate you on your ascension to the Chair today and to let you know that we have a motion of no confidence in the Deputy Speaker, which we hope it would be debated.
So, we will be grateful if you treat this as a job interview. Thank you. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, this point of order is not sustained. [Interjections.] Shall we then proceed.



Mr F BEUKMAN: Chairperson, hon members, fellow South Africans, on behalf of the Portfolio Committee on Police, I want to introduce the two reports. One is dealing with the international study tour to the United Kingdom that took place between 18 and 31 March 2017 and to KwaZulu- Natal from 31 July to 4 August 2012.

The aim of the visit to the UK was to look at comparative perspectives on policing issues, specifically in terms of police reform and transformation, management, leadership, public order policing, and the application of technology in day to day policing and evidence collection within the criminal justice system.

A further focus was on the oversight of policing and mechanisms to deal with policing complaints, as well as training of specialised units.

In Northern Island, the committee met with representatives of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and board members of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.

Discussions were held with the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland, the management of the Northern Ireland Police Training College, the Economic Crime Command and the National Crime Agency.

The committee also met with the Parades Commission for Northern Ireland who governs the public protest framework and the Department of Justice.

The main observations of our interactions in Northern Ireland translate to the following.

Firstly, a well-structured framework to ensure proper civilian control over the Police Service, with special reference to the Police Board and the Police Ombudsman.

Secondly, the strong focus on the independence of the oversight institutions and the accountability link to the parliamentary justice committee.

Thirdly, the specialisation functions of the National Crime Agency and the importance of expertise in the investigation of organised and commercial crime.

In England, the committee also visited the National Crime Agency and various institutions, including the Digital Policing Board and the Metropolitan Police Crime Academy.

The main observations of our interactions in England translate to the following.

Firstly, the investigation of organised crime is deemed to be a priority and the interagency co-operation between agencies is important, with respect to attaining success in investigations.

Secondly, the resourcing of specialised units is a prerequisite for success in the fighting of organised crime.

Thirdly, the investigation of organised crime is digitally based and sufficient investment is made in using digital investigations and evidence.

Furthermore, the use of appropriate technology and body cameras for frontline policing members has become a necessity in the fight against crime because it protects

officers and victims, and results in better prosecutions through guilty pleas.

Lastly, organised criminal groups have set up bases in different countries and there is a need for stronger and more effective transnational co-operation between police agencies.

The committee noted that there are several agencies that have oversight over policing and this helps to secure the professionalism and ethics of the police.

The Portfolio Committee on Police made 14 firm recommendations to the South African Police and the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, flowing from our visit that will benefit the functioning of the criminal justice system and ensure a more strategic approach in dealing with crime trends that affect the well-being of our citizens.

Four recommendations relate to technology and they are: that the SAPS invests in body worn cameras for all visible policing units; that CCTV cameras be installed as

a matter as priority in all community service centres throughout the country; that the SAPS reviews its technology support environment and strengthens its operational readiness in investigations against cyber crime, and that the SAPS develops the cyber crime centre as soon as possible, as it becomes a ministerial priority.

With relation to our visit to KwaZulu-Natal, the committee has tabled 17 recommendations with regard to our visit, especially dealing with issues of specialised units, the availability of operational vehicles, consequence management at cluster level, the rotation of the station management at the Umlazi cluster, telecommunication support in the rural areas and the increase of detective support for protection of serious crime.

The committee also recommended that the South African Police Services appoints a permanent police commissioner in KwaZulu-Natal as soon as possible. Thank you.

There was no debate.

The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Reports be adopted.

Declarations of vote:

Mr Z N MBHELE: Chairperson, the Democratic Alliance is very clear that there are three pillars of effective policing. Any discussion and any activity we undertake as committees or as this House must focus on how we can strengthen and institute these pillars and how we can mitigate against individuals or actions that detract from this.

These three pillars are this.

Firstly, professionalisation, which means having competent leadership at the core and as the foundation of the Police Service who hold each other and their subordinates accountable and who resist the politicisation of the Polices Service.

Secondly, specialisation, with focussed expertise-driven approaches in policing areas that require it, through specialised units and dedicated task teams.

Thirdly, localisation, which means that we must customise policing strategies and management to local contexts, in order to promote good relations between communities and the police in a way that they are responsive to those crime trends in those communities.

What we saw from our trip in the United Kingdom is that these principles and pillars are very well entrenched.

When it comes to ensuring professional and accountable police leadership, we saw that the key role of the Northern Ireland Policing Board, as an independent public body, was crucial to build public trust.

The chief constable is appointed according to a public appointment process, similar to that envisaged by the National Development Plan. The policing board appoints the entire senior team of the Northern Ireland Police Services, from the chief constable, the deputy chief constable, to the assistant chief constables. They hold them accountable, they develop the annual policing plan and they monitor police performance against targets.

When it comes to ensuring the localisation of the police, we saw a very strong focus on community-centred policing and this is operationalised in local and neighbourhood policing teams. This means that residents, civic associations and other stakeholders in communities know who their bobby on the beat is for their area. They build good relations, they can feed information and they get responsive service when it is required.

An absolutely crucial insight we gained from a meeting with the Northern Ireland Police Ombudsman, which is their equivalent of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID, is that they have the power and ability to direct for an independent disciplinary hearing to be conducted if the police do not agree to implement a recommendation for a hearing against an offending officer.

This remains one of the biggest weaknesses in our setup because very often the SAPS will reinvestigate recommendation cases from the IPID, make a different finding and therefore either opt not to pursue sanctions or they will impose a lighter sentence on the basis of

their own alternative findings. This feeds into the weakening of accountability and ongoing impunity for misconduct in the police service.

Turning to our trip to KwaZulu-Natal, this was a classic case of everything that is going wrong in the Police Service – leadership instability, because hanging over the landscape of the shoddy policing in KwaZulu-Natal is the protracted process of trying to hold the suspended provincial Police Commissioner, General Ngobeni to account for the allegations of corruption and racketeering against her.

The continuing reign of impunity means that operational officers on the ground and police stations suffer from not having responsive police management at provincial and cluster level that can support them to ensure effective operations. Thus, we saw only partial implementation of the rural of safety strategy at the Nongoma Police Station.

In Richards Baytrio crimes namely house robberies, business robberies and car hijackings were the most

prevalent crimes, with the police failing to get them under grip.

Finally, the Umlazi Police Station is the hotspot of unmitigated disaster, with the Glebelands Hostel crisis happening right under its nose, literally around the corner.

Until we have the political will to fix the fundamentals and get the basics right, the police will not get it right. We support the report. [Applause.]

Mr S P MHLONGO: Chairperson, the reason why scientists often update themselves in the domain of health, is because they want to be a step ahead of the pathogenic organisms that infect humanity worldwide.

This, in our case, calls for us to build a new police officer, who is completely different to the odlana sambe [eat and go] of the old order. We want a new police officer who is armed with IT specialisation, who is armed with higher education, who is armed with undivided loyalty to the country. He or she must serve. We want a

police officer whose loyalty to the Constitution of the Republic remains unquestionable.

This is what we have observed in our visit to the UK. For this to happen, we need coherent political leadership, not this that is just played out by the Guptas that we have here on the desk next to me. As long as you have that, you will never have this new officer that is required to fight the new sophisticated of the criminals of today.

During our visit to the UK, when we met the business unit, which is called digital policing, imbedded within UK policing, we realised that we need a patriotic business community that plays a critical role in the combating of crime. Hence, we also need funding or we need to develop a funding methodology to ensure that policing is sustained over the period.

The independence of the chief constable as a head of police remains a crucial factor, unlike here by us where the national commissioner ... To date, we don’t even have one. We have an acting constable in the South African

Police Services, which then does not assist with the fight against crime.

Therefore, it is in this context that the EFF noted during our visit to the UK that we cannot break the backbone of crime in South Africa as long as poverty exists among our people. We cannot localise policing in South Africa when we have so many huge areas that are occupied particularly by black people that are without any infrastructure, like we saw for example during our visit to the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and elsewhere in the country.

Coming back to our visit to KwaZulu-Natal, it of late, has become a killing field. It is a province where blood is flowing under the nose of the current leadership. Our visit to Umlazi Police Station, where the acting provincial commissioner stated quite categorically clear that some police officers are involved in the assassination of our people there. And they are investigating.

Unfortunately, those investigations are not yielding positive results. [Time expired.] Within this particular context the EFF says that this report will remain just a report. It will never see the light of implementation under a Zuma-led government. Thank you.

Mr T RAWULA: Chairperson, I want to bring to your attention that we are also marking your interview.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, you are out of order.

Mr N SINGH: House Chairperson, I notice three seconds have gone by and I haven’t said anything. I think they have to reset the clock.

Unfortunately, I was not on the delegation to see the bobbies on the beat in the UK although I live in the UK, Umkhomazi! However, I can speak to what happens in KwaZulu-Natal on policing and crime. It is no secret that crime is out of control in KwaZulu-Natal province. Our policing services appear hopelessly unable to cope effectively in dealing with the overwhelming number of

public complaints, charges and effecting mystery investigations and arrests.

This is due to a combination of factors. Chief amongst them is the poor leadership, poor management, low morale and logistical incapacity. Our police garages are mismanaged, which also leads to decreased visible policing in our communities. Talking about low morale and lack of facilities, it is shameful that senior policemen at the Bayview Police Station were involved in the theft of arms and ammunition, which they sold to crooks in the area. Having said that, there are also good policemen because a group of Durban policemen resisted a bribe of R100 000 when they arrested somebody who is a drug dealer who had drugs worth R500 000. So, there is the good and the bad.

Specialised policing units, like the public order policing, tactical response teams and the national intervention unit are undercapcitated and overburdened. A serious criminal element that’s sweeping KwaZulu-Natal particularly is the issue of rhino poaching. It doesn’t take rocket scientists to work out that those policemen

and members of the judiciary are complicit in this heinous crime that is perpetrated against our animals.

We really need the police and justice to get to the bottom of this because we have information that even senior magistrates are letting these poachers off the hook because they have developed arthritis. Arthritis take place when our hands go like this ... This is what is happening. Arthritis is crippling our country more than the effects of HIV and Aids. We really need to ensure that Ipid does their job well and get to the bottom of these crooked policemen and women that we have in our society whilst complimenting and rewarding those who do good work.

Glebelands hostel remains a hot spot of conflict, violence and criminal activities with the murder crime being the priority crime. There are also allegations of corruption, gun running and collusion with criminals by the very police who are meant to be protecting them.

Low rate of arrests or the disarmament of residents at the hostel has only fuelled the violence. This is a total

failure by the SAPS and requires urgent intervention. The IFP supports the report. Thank you.

Prof N M KHUBISA: House Chairperson, we welcome the report. It appeared during the oversight visit that there is a need for members of the public order policing unit to be provided extensive training in crowd control. The long delays in maintenance, repairing of vehicle and challenges around dealing with sole providers are matters for concern.

Visits to the police stations in Chatsworth in particular was quite clear that all is not well with regard to service provided by the SAPS, specifically wherein the authorities acknowledge their weaknesses and more importantly being able to tell the committee that they are aware of the names and details of the criminals including the drug dealers. Despite being aware, very little or nothing has been done.

It now appears that the SAPS in Chatsworth have made some major breakthrough irrespective of the weaknesses and many arrests have been made in that area. Whilst this may

be the case, a lot of work needs to be done as it now appears that drug dealing is a common issue in Chatsworth which is spiralling out of control.

The visit to the 10111 control centre whilst in theory it appears to be functioning optimally, in practice it is not the case. Concerns are being expressed by members of the committee with regard to the long delays in response from the SAPS. However, an undertaking has been given that a process is being put in place for greater co- ordination between all the relevant SAPS to accelerate the turnaround time with regard to response.

What is very evident is lack of oversight by provincial Saps as some of the challenges identified by the Portfolio Committee on Police can be prevented if the provincial department take greater interest in monitoring and evaluation on the services provided in the specific areas. What is also clear is the negative impact of policing in South Africa as a result of the challenges faced by the department with regard to appointment of the commissioners and deputy commissioners.

Whilst we acknowledge that the SAPS is faced with a mammoth task of these crime challenges countrywide as a result of the socioeconomic conditions our people face, including having to inherit a very unequal society from the apartheid regime, there is a lot that still needs to be done.

We call upon the department and the Minister to address the challenges that have been identified. Irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure must be dealt with immediately. There should be consequence management for those who are not doing are not doing their job properly.

On the visit to UK, what was learned in the in the comparative studies, capacitation training, training, technology and monitoring and evaluation, which are important ... [Time expired.] Thank you, Chairperson, we support the report.

Ms M P MMOLA: House Chair, the ANC rises to support the report of the Portfolio Committee on Police oversight visit to KwaZulu-Natal and UK. The oversight visit on police stations was done in KZN province between 31 July

2017 and 4 August 2017. The purpose of the oversight visit was for the committee to evaluate compliance of specialised units and police stations in the following areas: Richards Bay, KwaNongoma, Pietermaritzburg, Umlazi and Durban.

We visited these areas to evaluate policing management and service delivery in deep rural and urban areas. The committee welcome some of the progress made in policing management and service delivery in the rural areas of KwaZulu-Natal province, for example, we have made an unannounced visit to Kwahlabisa police station, where we found the station commander committed to his work and doing his job excellently.

However, the portfolio committee made the following recommendations in order to improve the state of policing, quality of police stations and provincial management exercise in KZN: That the permanent provincial commissioner of KZN be appointed; that the SAPS provincial management immediately appoint a head of support at Hlabisa police station; that all outstanding vacancies in the detectives environment be filled and the

station receive the necessary support; that the outstanding murder cases at Glebelands hostel be finalised and murderers and hit man be brought to justice as soon as possible; that special session be held with all cluster commanders in the province to review their efficiency and support to stations; that the provincial and station-level detectives increase their low convictions and detection rate statistics; that the SAPS provide training and mentoring support to all station commanders in the KZN province.

The Portfolio Committee on Police will have a special meeting this coming Tuesday on the implementation of the recommendations to ensure that policing in KZN is further strengthened. The ANC supports the report of the Portfolio Committee on Police oversight visit to KZN and UK. I thank you, House Chairperson.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Mr H M Z MMEMEZI: Thank you very much Chairperson. The portfolio committee approved both oversight reports with clear observations and recommendations to the department. The portfolio committee made the following points.

The Department of Public Works is the custodian of all government properties. The small harbours along the coast in the rural areas of our country form part of these properties.

The Small Harbours and State Coastal Property Development Unit of Public Works’ Property Management Trading Entity, PMTE, has the operational responsibility to develop, maintain and manage the leases of government’s immovable properties in small harbours.

The committee strategically divided its oversight work into two oversight visits to different parts of the Cape

coast, the West Coast and the Southern Cape coast, on different dates.

In the first visit, the committee visited small harbours along the Western Cape West Coast, including the Hout Bay harbour in Cape Town.

On the second visit, the committee visited the small harbour along the South Western coastline and Kalk Bay in Cape Town.

Matters that emerged during the visit ... The committee, in doing its oversight visit, was aware of the intergovernmental functions of structures such as the Integrated Small Harbour Authority, Ishma, and the harbour steering committee to ensure that the economic potential of small harbours were unlocked so that the people can benefit.

The committee is further aware of the fact that the Department of Public Works, the Department of Environmental Affairs and the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries have collective roles on Ishma to

ensure that rural communities along these fishing towns can benefit from the economic potential locked in these environments.

The committee noticed the equally important leadership and administrative roles that the Western Cape provincial government and the Cape Town Metropolitan Council play to ensure the functioning of these harbours and the unlocking of its socio-economic potential.

The contestation that was reported between the Swartland Municipality over the damaged parking area surface at Yzerfontein harbour was noted. The documentary evidence showed that this resulted due to miscommunication ... rather an agreement between the Department of Public Works and the Swartland Municipality on the issue of the payment of a particular amount.

It has to be noted that the Department of Public Works played its role as a custodian of the property of Yzerfontein and that it spent three million to build a new slipway, upgraded the harbour wall and installed the dolosse that break the force of the waves and regulate

wave action to make entering and exiting harbours for boats easier. The dolosse were manufactured in the area close to the fish delivery and collection area and had to be transported from the manufacturing site to the harbour. Due to the wait for the dolosse, the trucks damaged the tar and paving of the harbour.

It is crucial to note that this was responsible action on the part of the Department of Public Works as it must ensure that rural fisher people can enter the harbour safely. For its part, the municipality took responsible action to fix the damage to the parking area ... safe.

In these rural communities, the economic potential of small harbours that should form the bedrock of social improvements for disadvantaged communities that live in the surrounding rural areas where small harbours are situated, are actually not always unlocked because Ishma does not function optimally.

The committee already approved the report. The House must note the report.

There was no debate.


move that both reports be adopted by this House.

Declaration(s) of vote:

Dr M J FIGG: Hon House Chair, the purpose of the oversight visit was to the Small Harbours and State Coastal Property Development Unit of the Department of Public Works’ PMTE. The unit has the responsibility of development, management, leasing, maintenance and the creation of job opportunities in the 12 proclaimed harbours.

The economic potential of the small harbours can, if managed properly, be the catalyst for the social improvement of communities that live in the surrounding areas where small harbours are situated.

In order to facilitate the functioning of the small harbours, a decision for the establishment of Ishma was made way back in 2005 but to date it is not fully operational. It is unacceptable that this has taken so

long as it has negated the possible socio-economic development of communities in these rural areas where people do not have work opportunities.

What we witnessed on our visit was exactly the opposite of what was intended. There was a blame game between the Department of Public Works and the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. They were mostly unsure of who was responsible for performing certain functions. There appeared to be a deliberate blockage in communication between the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries and the Department of Public Works.

The confusion was caused partly because the leasing of harbour sites was done by the Department of Public Works, the revenue was collected by the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries and the maintenance was the responsibility of the Department of Public Works.

The harbours are mostly underdeveloped and in some harbours there are sunken vessels that need to be removed urgently. We also found that in Stilbaai, Gansbaai and

Arniston there were no electric meters for cold storage, resulting in electricity not being paid for as usage could not be recorded.

In Arniston, there was inadequate lighting, creating a security risk. In Struisbaai, we found no public toilets, a new storage container paid for but not connected, and only one ablution facility for male and female staff.

Security at the harbours was inadequate and as a consequence harbour masters, who were mostly female, feared for their lives on a daily basis. Hout Bay is one of the worst where criminals roam the place freely and people were frequently robbed on the harbour premises.
Poaching, the selling of drugs and entry by illegal immigrants are also serious problems. They say that the lack of security was due to the lapsing of a safety and security project under the Extended Public Works Programme. In Gansbaai, offices are regularly burgled.

Lease agreements entered into were below the market value. When questioned about the reasons for this, the Department of Public Works responded that this was the

agreement with the lessee in exchange for maintaining properties.

In Stilbaai, there are three tenants paying extremely low rentals of R258, R380 and R77 per month for the rental of prime properties. This equates to a total of R8 580 per annum.

In Arniston, one of the businessmen present complained that he was expected to pay a 1000% increase on his lease. I asked him what his current rental was and I’m still waiting for the figure.

Nonmaintenance of slipways and equipment is another major problem. This is a total violation of the Occupational Health and Safety Act. Most cranes and winches are in a state of disrepair. At Kalk Bay, there is a winch that is designed to pull boats of up to 60 tons into the dry dock but cannot manage to pull a 40 ton vessel, and then it starts slipping. Action will only be taken one day when someone gets injured or worse still, gets killed.

Slipways at most harbours need renovation as they are cracked, thus causing sand to be washed onto the slipway. This makes usage dangerous.

It is also regrettable that the once thriving Lusitania building in Gansbaai is neglected and in a state of disrepair. This is not an isolated occurrence.

The small harbours employ too few experienced staff while there is a desperate need. The reason given for the vacancies was due to budgetary constraints. Is it not ironic that while there are not enough funds to reduce the 9,4 million people without jobs that there is money for the President to pilfer.

A decision was taken at national level that if any staff retired or died they would be replaced. The former could be managed but the latter creates a problem. This, while there is a shortage of dockers who are employed by the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries.

At small harbours, docker’s main activities include slipway management, maintenance and cleaning of boats,

and the control and collection of monies for access to the harbours. At Stilbaai, the docker occupied a flimsy nonpermanent structure that leaked whenever it rained.

The report is accurate and the DA supports the report.

Mr Z R XALISA: Thanks Chair. Small harbours in the Western Cape are grossly underfunded, with too little money allocated towards these harbours, and with the money that is allocated being mismanaged or stolen.

The people who are most affected by this are small-scale fishing communities that have been reliant on the ocean for centuries to support themselves and their families. These communities face an onslaught from all sides.
Multinational companies are destroying fish stocks but instead of ending this, the government cuts the quotas of small-scale fishermen.

On top of this, the harbours which are vital for fishermen continue to deteriorate and be neglected. This department clearly has no political will or capacity to

help and support fishing communities in the Western Cape and the country.

This is also the same department that does not even use a professional financial asset register despite having paid for one, and instead uses Microsoft Excel.

The incompetency and mismanagement of this department is helping to destroy fishing communities throughout the Western Cape, and for this reason we reject the report.

Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, I’m really working hard for the projected 4,5% increase!

Chairperson, I was not part of this visit, but the IFP certainly does appreciate that our small harbours are key to the livelihoods of small-scale fishermen.

Having said that, I note from the report that was tabled and from the comments of my other colleagues, that, certainly, these harbours are not well managed. It is common knowledge that their employment and local economic development potential is far from being maximised.

Small harbour development is essential if government is serious about poverty alleviation in our fishing communities and surrounds. This includes the repair and upgrading of slipways, the dredging of harbour basins, the removal of sunken vessels, and the installation of security measures. The current slow pace of implementation in this regard undermines socioeconomic development, and must be addressed.

Once again, poaching of a different sort – not rhino poaching, this time, but fish poaching and marine resources poaching – remains a very real threat to the sustainable use of our oceans and marine life ecosystems. While poaching may provide short-term gains for small fishing communities, it will destroy them in the long term.

Having said that, the bigger threat to our marine resources is foreign trawlers coming into our seas and depriving us of tons and tons of our fish which ordinary people in these communities could benefit from. This is something that the police, Justice and all other enforcement agencies must be heavily involved in to

ensure that foreign trawlers don’t come and rape our marine resources.

Additionally, educational programmes and greater marine policing is necessary to not only educate local communities about the dangers of over-fishing, but also to arrest and successfully prosecute those found transgressing our laws. Far too often we find some fishermen who catch a few more shad than they should – especially in Durban – or who catch the wrong size shad, or who catch a few more crayfish than they should, being given heavy sentences and heavy penalties. Yet they are doing that for a livelihood. Although we cannot condone those who do it just for economic gain.

Having said that, stricter measures must be taken against all those foreign trawlers that come into our oceans and rape our marine resources. We support the report. Thank you.

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Chairperson, the NFP agrees with the assertion of the committee that there is vast economic potential for small harbours that needs to be unlocked.

This economic potential of small harbours could well form the backbone of the social improvement of communities that live in the areas surrounding small harbours. As such, small harbours should form an integral part of the roll-out of Operation Phakisa.

The report contains several important observations and recommendation which we support. By necessity, tapping the full potential of our small harbours will require that the Department of Public Works works hand-in-hand with other departments such the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries as well as the Department of Environmental Affairs. Optimising the potential of our small harbours is not and should not be restricted to subsistence fishing and the conveyance of goods only. The tourism potential of small harbours needs to be investigated and, in particular, the interest of the hospitality and food and beverages sectors explored.

In this sense, we believe that the Department of Tourism and its entities might be of assistance to the Department of Public Work.

Safety and maintenance issues at our small harbours are however reason for concern. If we are to maximise the potential of our small harbours and if we wish for harbour operations to proceed smoothly, then the maintenance of infrastructure – slipways, cranes and winches – is essential.

In conclusion, the NFP supports the adoption of the report as tabled here today. Thank you.

Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson of the session, hon Ministers and Deputy Minister, Members of Parliament, colleagues, comrades and friends, the small harbours revitalisation programme is a programme of the ANC to bring economic development to the poorest of the poor. [Interjections.]

Now, the point is that people who were never on this trip, or who were never there, come and talk about things that they don’t even know about. We need to express our appreciation and thanks to hon members like hon Dianne Kohler-Barnard and all the other members of the committee who were part of this trip.

We really have found that in our visit to the small harbours, one of the points is that the ANC-led government has really put steps in place and are trying to put steps in place. They have appointed the Coega Development Corporation to oversee and look and refurbish these small harbours, hon Paulsen. They have done the best they can.

But, you know, the point is that we have a responsibility to talk to our communities as well, to engage with our communities because small harbours are really and can really play a big role in the upliftment of poor communities. That is why the ANC has seized the opportunity to put in place the small harbours revitalisation plan. The security of the harbours...

So, small harbours is not just a Public Works function alone. It’s a vast function of different departments – Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Police, Environmental Affairs. So small harbours can be great and the potential is there for small harbours to deliver under Operation Phakisa.

And yes, there is a plan in place, and work has already started in some of these harbours. But the problem that we have is that some of the buildings of these harbours are rented out to companies that have 50 to 90-year leases, that pay R1 000 per month. Big companies like Oceana, Premier Fishing and all that... So, that is part of the point that we really have to look at, hon Paulsen.

The ANC is really doing the best that it can. And I’m telling you that we have asked that the Ministers must get together to solve this problem in terms of our small harbours because our small harbours can be not just for fishermen. Our small harbours could be economic hubs for the local community. The local people can sell their crafts, arts and products at our small harbours.

So, don’t just focus on one aspect because fishing ... Yes, it plays a big part in part of the small harbours, but our small harbours must really be an integrated small harbour. An integrated small harbour that can integrate and emancipate and uplift economic development in our various areas.

So, that’s why I would say that ... let’s give the ANC their due. They are doing well. You are doing nothing. You just come here ... criticise ... You don’t even know what a harbour looks like! You don’t even know what a crayfish looks like! You run away for a crayfish if a crayfish is served in front of you!

So I want to say, if you want to criticise, come with positive criticism ...

Mr N PAULSEN: House Chair! House Chair!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member...

Mr F ADAMS: ... because the ANC is doing its best.

Mr N PAULSEN: House Chair! House Chair!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon Adams, please take your seat.

Mr N PAULSEN: House Chair, I just want to tell the idiot at the podium that I ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Firstly, on what Rule are you rising?

Mr N PAULSEN: Rule 92. I want to tell this idiot ...

Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order!

Mr N PAULSEN: ... at the podium that I know what a harbour looks like.

Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order!

Mr N PAULSEN: I was born in Cape Town. I wasn’t born on a farm like him. [Interjections.]

Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, you may come in.

Mr B A RADEBE: Chair, I’m rising on Rule 84. The member is using unparliamentary language towards the member. Can

you request him to withdraw that, please? He said the hon member is an idiot.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, it is true that it is unparliamentary to call another member an idiot. So please withdraw.

Mr M N PAULSEN: I withdraw that he’s an idiot; he’s a big idiot! [Interjections.] Okay, I withdraw that.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Okay. Please, hon members, let’s conduct ourselves in a manner that will maintain the dignity of this House. You may proceed, hon member.

Mr F ADAMS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks that he recognised that he is the biggest one of them all!

In terms of the fact that the ANC government is trying its utmost best ... [Interjections.]

Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon Adams, please take your seat.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, can you see how foolish he is? He must withdraw that. That’s unparliamentary language. You’ve just ruled that I was unparliamentary; now you let this fool be unparliamentary!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, please withdraw. [Interjections.] Hon Adams ...

Mr B A RADEBE: Withdraw what, Chair? On a point of order, what must he withdraw?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): You are not the Chair, wena; sit down! [Laughter.] Hon member, may I please ... [Interjections.]

Mr M N PAULSEN: [Inaudible.] Maybe you want a promotion! You’re not going to make it. You’re not going to ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, I did not recognise you! Hon member, please take your seat.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Sit down, German cat!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, take your seat! May I please postpone the ruling on this one, where I had actually said the hon member must ...

Mr M N PAULSEN: No! You must ask him! Ask him if he said so. Ask him!

Mr F ADAMS: I said “biggest”. What is “biggest”? Do you understand ...

Mr M N PAULSEN: No! What did you say?

Mr F ADAMS: Hon Chairperson, I don’t think the member understands English or any language! [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon members, I am definitely going to rule. I am consulting and ...

Mr M N PAULSEN: This thing here is looking for trouble! Chairperson, ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): ... before the end of the sitting ...

Mr M N PAULSEN: ... this thing here is looking for trouble!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Please take your seat!

Mr M N PAULSEN: And he’s going to get it! He’s looking for trouble!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, please be orderly. Please take your seat. Thank you. You may proceed, hon Adams.

Mr F ADAMS: Thank you, Chairperson. The ANC has even put in place harbour steering committees. The ANC has put in place a company called Coega Development Corporation to maintain the harbours, the docking queues, the dredging

... [Interjections.] ... as well as the removal of sunken vessels that destabilise and damage other vessels.

So, there is big work that the ANC has done.

Now, I want to ask my colleague, the honourable colleague, what has he ever done in his life, positive. Nothing! That’s why he can’t even go into the townships of Cape Town without being chased away and without talking nonsense. That’s why his own party had to remove him from the legislature, because he was a destructive force there.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson! Chairperson! Rule 92! Chairperson! Rule 92! Chairperson! Rule 92!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon Adams, please take your seat.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Point of order! This fool is insulting me here! And you allow him to get away with it! [Interjection.]

Mr F ADAMS: No, you are ... you are ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, I have said that I will rule later. I am allowed to ...

Mr M N PAULSEN: No but he’s continuing and you’re busy doing something else. You must pay attention here!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): ... to rule later, after consulting. For now, I want him to finish and then I will rule. You are out of order!

Mr M N PAULSEN: [Inaudible.] ... he will do silly things.

Ms N V MENTE: Point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, I am definitely going to rule. Please take your seat.

Ms N V MENTE: Point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Madam?

Ms N V MENTE: Hon Chairperson, is it parliamentary for the member to call another member a fool? Please rule on that. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, please withdraw that. It is unparliamentary to call a member a fool.

Mr M N PAULSEN: No, okay. I withdraw he’s a fool. He’s a fat fool! Okay, I withdraw that too. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon Adams, you may proceed.

Mr F ADAMS: Thank you, Chairperson.

Ms M C C PILANE-MAJEKE: Chairperson ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Yes, hon member? What is it?

Ms M C C PILANE-MAJEKE: Chairperson, I rise on Rule 86 — reflections upon decisions or statutes, and also ... [Interjections.] Rule ... [Interjections.]

Hey! Hold on, wena! [Interjections.]

... and also Rule ... on point ... on Rule 92. This man here must not say things that he does not know. And he must not reflect on the law that he does not know. This House is busy working.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Hon member, I think this one on the reflections upon decisions or statutes
... this one is not sustained. [Interjections.] Hon member, you may come in.

Ms T V TOBIAS: Hon Chairperson, I need you to rule ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): On which Rule are you rising?

Ms T V TOBIAS: Rule 86 – the reflection on an individual. The hon member has body-shamed hon Adams. He called him a

fat fool. I think this matter needs to be taken to the Ethics Committee. You can’t body-shame people. He just said he’s a fat fool! So we cannot ... We need to take this matter further. It’s way too serious than just a person ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Alright. Hon members, I know that the Rules allow you to speak, but it says you must speak softly so that you don’t drown the speaker out.

I think he did withdraw immediately after he said “fat fool”. [Interjections.] He did! Yes, he did. [Interjections.] Okay, on a ...

Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Yes, hon member?

Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, I rise on Rule 92. Those hon members on that side of the House are actually challenging your decision, and challenging you. That’s

out of order. And it needs to be investigated by the Rules Committee.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Okay. No, that’s fine. Hon members, in terms of the Rules, if you are not happy with a ruling from the Chair, you are allowed to appeal to the Speaker so that the matter can be considered in the Rules Committee. So it is a procedural matter. Thank you.

Shall we then proceed? Hon Adams ...

Or maybe let me also rule on the matter by hon Adams. Hon Adams said ... After the hon member withdrew, hon Adams said he is the “big one”.

So I will then request hon member to withdraw.

Mr F ADAMS: I withdraw, Chairperson.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Thank you. Proceed.

Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, this work that is happening on the small harbours is work that is created by the ANC to pump economy and to create work. To create work... The dredging of the harbours does not happen overnight. It doesn’t fall from the skies of people from Mars. [Interjections.] Any logical person can think that this dredging of the harbours ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Order!

Mr F ADAMS: ... the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition ... It’s labour consumption. That is work for small business. That is work for the man on the street. And that is creating jobs.

Now ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Order!

[Interjections.] Not you. I’m referring to this side. There’s noise coming from this side.

Mr F ADAMS: Now, the Chief Whip of the Opposition comes from Durban ... the coastal areas. He’s supposed to know

these things. [Laughter.] He’s supposed to know these things.

But, the fact of the matter is that work is definitely being done on these small harbours. The interministerial committee has met Public Works, Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Environmental Affairs as well as the police to look at the safety and security of these harbours. To look at how these harbours can be integrated into economic hubs for the people and for the communities that they are in. That is the plan of the ANC – to create work, not to break down like certain of our colleagues in this House with the red overalls that just want to break down and destroy everything. I thank you.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson! Chairperson!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): Thank you, hon member. [Interjections.] Well, hon member, the member has already left the podium. I think they are a bit late.

Mr M N PAULSEN: No, Chairperson. Before he left... [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms Y N Phosa): He has already left the podium.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson! Chairperson!

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report on Oversight visit to Small Harbours in South- Western Cape and Cape Town accordingly adopted.

Report on Oversight visit to Small Harbours on Western Cape West Coast accordingly adopted.



Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, National Freedom Party and African National Congress.

Ms M R SEMENYA: Chairperson, in line with Parliament constitutional mandate and to strengthen its oversight responsibility over the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries regularly undertake oversight visits to provinces to determine how the department implement its plans and programmes as per Strategic and Annual Performance Plan including the national policy priorities and the presidential pronouncements. In addition, the portfolio committee also undertakes oversight visit to determine how the department response to the sectoral challenges including the natural disasters and disease outbreaks.

In its engagement with the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, the portfolio committee previously raised concerns regarding the baseline data particularly for activities that are targeted at smallholder producers including the impact of the plan

targets on service delivery. On Limpopo, Chair, it was against this background that the portfolio committee undertook the oversight visit to Limpopo on 20-24 July 2015. The purpose of our visit was; firstly, to oversee the implementation of agricultural policy action plan through development of commodity value chain, secondly, the implementation of the Fetsa Tlala Food Production Initiative and support that is given to small holders and subsistence producers to enhance food production at national and household levels through programmes such as Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme, thirdly, enquire into inland aquaculture development and the management of community forestry plantation and benefits that are derived from these plantations by local communities.

After visiting various projects in different districts of the Province of Limpopo, in particular ...


... komiti e ile ya kgahlwa kudu ke selete sa Vhembe le kgoro ya tša temo le kgoro ya tlhabollo ya dinagamagae le tshokollo ya naga tša profense ge di ile tša šomišana le

balemi ba rena kua Vhembe. Seo se re kgahlilego ke gore re fihlile kua ra hwetša gore kgoro le selete di šomišana gabotse le balemipotlana ba Nwanedi Cluster, yeo Mopresidente a ilego a bolela ka yona.

Se sengwe seo se re kgahlilego kudu re le Maloko a Palamente ke gore seleteng sa Vhembe, motse wo mongwe le wo mongwe go na le mašengwana a merogo le mehlare ya dienywa. Ke takatšo ya rena ya letšatši ka letšatši gore batho ba itirele ka go bjala tšeo ba tla iphepago ka tšona.


However, it should be noted that one of the challenging thing that we found was market access and in some cases market infrastructure and transportation of the produce were the main challenges. The delegation further noted the poor co-ordination and the intergovernmental relation were hampering progress throughout the province. Both the national and provincial departments were not effectively responding to the beneficiaries challenges associated with land claims, both agriculture and forestry projects.

In this regard, the committee recommended a continuous engagement with the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and fisheries and Rural Development and Land Reform to ensure that land reform beneficiaries have title deeds and are receiving the necessary post settlement support.

On the Western Cape, the committee undertook the oversight visit to Knysna ...


... ka morago ga masetlapelo ao a ilego a wela lona lefelo leo. Ge re lekola gore mollo woo o thomilego kua Garden Route e bile o mokaakang, re lemogile gore o amile boradipolasa le bašomi ba dipolasa. Tshenyo yeo e bilego gona dipolaseng ... [Nako e fedile.]


This is the Report of the Portfolio Committee and we request that you adopt or note it. Thank you. [Time expired.]

There was no debate.


That the Reports be adopted.

Motion agreed to. (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting)

Report on Oversight visit to Limpopo Province accordingly adopted.

Report on Oversight visit to Knysna accordingly adopted.

Declarations of vote(s):

Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, firstly I would like to thank the chairperson of Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries for taking that portfolio to Knysna after the devastation of the drought this year. We went almost a week after the fire. The portfolio conducted oversight in Knysna in June 2017, after the devastating fire ravaged Knysna and the surrounding areas. It was reported that approximately 14 300 hectares of land was affected by the fire in the Knysna area and
10 000 hectares in the Plettenberg Bay area.

Seven lives were lost, two which were of fire fighters.

483 houses burned down and 200 informal dwellers were destroyed. Of specific concern to the portfolio committee were the effects that the fire had on the agriculture, forestry and fisheries sectors. It became apparent that the forestry sectors were badly affected. Although some opportunities for short term jobs may exist regarding replanting the long term effects would only be known later as it could take more than ten years to replant the forests.

We heard from Mr Kanyemba from the MTO forestry, a company that is managing forest plantations on behalf of the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries that most of their plantations were affected. He reported that MTO lost 10 700 hectares which is 25% of plantations in the area of east of Knysna and also lost one employee. What is apparent from our visit is that assistance regarding help from the agricultural sector after disaster is taking a long time or that there is no assistance is granted at all.

We were informed that damage assessment and verification which would then lead to support for emergency repairs for critical infrastructure through the national disaster management committee grant funding could only happen after assessments were done. To release these funds, the affected areas should submit a disaster report within 90 days, which is three months before an area could be declared a disaster area. Only after that a decision can be taken if any assistance could be provided. In some cases that timeframe is much too long.

Proposals from the committee included that the Minister should ensure that there are enough resources and capacity for Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Daff, to effectively implement the National Veld and Forestry Fire Act, and that Daff should take note of the model that has been used by the Western Cape government in managing the disasters so that future outbreaks of veld and forest fires and other related disasters can be effectively and speedily addressed.

The committee commended the efforts of everybody who was involved in ensuring that the fire was brought under

control at that no more lives and property were lost. Parliament must take note of the struggle to get hold of disaster funding. We are aware that during the 2015/16 drought the disaster fund was under spent by
R3000 million because no one requested funds. We are currently sitting in the same situation with the Western Cape, the Northern Cape and the Eastern Cape undergoing a serious drought but there are apparently no funds available.

The second Report deals with the oversight Report visit to Limpopo. I was told that it was during July 2015, I don’t know why the Report is only coming to Parliament now. We did find some positive result with farmers who were taking responsibility for the land that they are working and were given. However, at the majority of the projects we found a lack of co-operation between the departments and that they were not responding to challenges and needs on the ground. Maybe Minister Nkwinti must listen.

One of the examples was at Rossbach Certified Public Accountant, CPA, where we had the cry that although the

land claim was settled during 2005, it was not yet settled and no title was transferred to the community. This is causing extreme frustrations and communities cannot take ownership of the farms transferred to them. The chairperson, Mr Mutepe, explained that they tried everything to get assistance from the land claims commissioner but to no avail.

That situation has caused the buildings and equipments being vandalised. Another finding was that of high input costs to farmers. Communities find it difficult to make a living and to pay Eskom costs. This leads to electricity cuts and even further frustrations in trying to make a living. Parliament must take note that since these departments are working in silos and that small scale farmer officials are mainly left on their own. Minister Nkwinti, who is doing recap at the moment? There is a fight between Rural Development and Land Reform on who is actually supposed to assist farmers after they have received land. Thank you.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, the EFF rejects this portfolio committee Report on oversight visit to Limpopo

and Knysna. Chairperson, as the hon chairperson of the committee said that we have a constitutional mandate to conduct oversight visits but let us see how this Parliament does oversight visits.

We did the oversight visit in July 2015, it was tabled in the Announcements, Tabling and Committee, ATC, in October 2016, and we must now consider it as parliament in November 2017. Therefore, we are now basically ticking off boxes and not concerned with the qualitative output in the work that we do as Parliament. The visit in Knysna was meant to assess the impact of the fires that rigged havoc in the area on farmers and farm workers in the first week in June. Then, among the recommendations made in the Report was that the relevant government departments must finalise disaster management plans so that the funds are released to assist affected farmers and farm workers.

It was also meant to be a progress report on assistance provided by October this year. This hasn’t been done. By tabling this Report now, what improvements can we say we were able to offer as parliament to the affected farmers

and farm workers? We have urged Parliament to take serious the potential impact on service delivery that these oversight visits could have, if only we were to take them serious not as opportunities for tourism by Members of Parliament.

Therefore, Chairperson, until we take oversight visits to the various provinces to assess the conditions there and react on them as quick as possible and not wait for the entire year or six months to pass, we have to reject these Reports on oversight visits. Thank you very much.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Chair, we note that the oversight visit to Limpopo was largely to oversee the implementation of the Fetsa Tlala Food Production Initiative as well as inland aquaculture development and management of forests in the province. The entirety of the report speaks of a positive oversight visit and we are encouraged by the observations of the committee that the Vhembe district of Limpopo’s Department of Agriculture and Rural Development is noted and commended for their dedication and hard work in assisting farmers.

Pockets of excellence such as these bode well for the future of agriculture in our country. We support the observations and recommendations contained in the report in particular we urge the department to heed the recommendations of the committee that there be greater co-operations with different state departments to effect sustainable agricultural growth in the province. We also welcome the oversight visit to Knysna particularly so since the area had been ravaged by runaway fires that have caused a loss of life and extensive damage to property. We join the committee is commending the Eden district and the Western Cape government for the swift and proactive manner in which they had responded to the disaster. The NFP agrees with the recommendations of the committee in particular that funding should be released as a priority to assist farmers who had sustained damages.

The extent and devastation of the fires underlines the need for prevention measures such as firebreaks to prevent or mitigate an outbreak of such a scale and to that effect, we support the recommendation of the committee that the department should ensure that there

are sufficient resources available to effectively implement the National Veld and Forest Fire Act. In conclusion, we support the report. Thank you.

Mr N CAPA: Chair, as the ANC we support the report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Fisheries.


Abantu baseKnysna bebehlelwe yingozi yokutshiswa ngumlilo kodwa sifike sancoma uncedo abantu abathe balufumana xa bebesengxakini. Sithanda nento yokuba bekukhangelwa indlela yokuba baza kuncedwa njani hayi umbuzo wokuba baza kuncedwa kusini na. Loo nto ibingazukwenzeka kungakhange kwenziwe uphando lokuba ...


... how much is needed.


Siphinde saxelelwa nokuba le nto iza kwenzeka ngexesha elithile kwaye ayisayi kuthatha thuba lide. Sibone ukusebenzisana kwamasebe onke nawo onke amaqumrhu ebephaya kude kusebenzisane namaphondo phakathi kweMpuma

Koloni ukuya eNtshona Koloni. Loo nto ibonakalise ukuba lo rhulumente ngurhulumente osebenzisanayo. Ezi zinto zisenza siyixhase le ngxelo yale komiti.

Siyile naseLimpopo ...


... as a committee, we learned many things. One of them, we learnt that there is a development in the process of integration. There is a process of working together between all departments and institutions.


Apha kukho iPhulo iPhakisa elibonakalisa ukuba zonke ezi zinto ziza kwenzeka. Ndiyathemba ukuba nohloniphekileyo uza kuthula uza kubona. Kuyabonakala ukuba uMphathiswa wenza le nto efunekayo.


There is this part that is being implemented of a comprehensive support to the small holding farmers.


Kuyacaca ngoku kula fama ukuba indlela ancediswa ngayo ivela macala onke ngandlela zonke. Kuyekiwe ngoku ukuba kuyekelwane.


All these are the efforts that have been demonstrated and these; we have seen them in our visits to the provinces.


Kakhulu ke ngoku...


... in that province, the implementation of all the intergovernmental operations, all the interrelations, this was shown, and it was also shown that it must be encouraged. These are the things we have learned. Working in the district and province has demonstrated the hard work and the working hard of all the officials. This has demonstrated that this government knows what it is doing and therefore, as the ANC, we support this report because it says, what has happened, what is to be done and what we have learned. I thank you, Chair.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report on Oversight visit to Limpopo Province accordingly adopted.

Report on Oversight visit to Knysna accordingly adopted.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs N Y Phosa): Are you rising on a point of order?


The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs N Y Phosa): What Rule?

Mr T RAWULA: Chairperson, on a point of order: Rule 92, it’s the second occasion now, my microphone is off. This microphone was off when Nazir (Paulsen) was speaking and also when the Whip was speaking, even now it is still off. Why are our microphones off? And we want an apology.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs N Y Phosa): Well, in my case ... [Interjections.]

Mr T RAWULA: Because it has been off.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs N Y Phosa): Okay, I will apologise because it is an oversight.

Mr T RAWULA: We want everyone to apologise.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs N Y Phosa): I did not press any button here, it is just an oversight. Please accept our apology and take your seat.

Mr T RAWULA: And this must stop howling because it is my right.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs N Y Phosa): Take your seat please.

Mr T RAWULA: It is still off ... [Interjections.] Hey man! Wena [You] leave me alone.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs N Y Phosa): Can you try, is it on now? [Interjections.] Yes. Thank you very much. Take your seat now. Take your seat.



recognise the Chief Whip of the Majority Party.



siyacela ukuthi leNdlu ehloniphekile iwamukele lombiko. [report] Siyabonga.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs N Y Phosa): I call upon the chairperson; I started with recognising the Chief Whip, my apologies. Actually the chairperson is supposed to introduce the report and then ... [Interjections.] yes, you will come again.

Mr D GUMEDE: Hon Chairperson, hon members of this august House. The oversight visit to the Eastern Cape took place under the able leadership of our chairperson who unfortunately could not be with us for reasons beyond his control. The objectives of the committee were to check border management and control after getting reports that

the Department of Home Affairs did not have good relations with the community and with other stakeholders which allegedly affected their effectiveness in the performance of their tasks. That was according to a Mr Sono as well as reports that undocumented children were crossing the border daily to attend school in South Africa which is against our present laws and arrangements among others, that is among other objectives.

We observed that the Department of Home Affairs had good relations with the communities in Sterkspruit and with the municipality which was contrary to the reports given by Mr Sono. The Department of Home Affairs does not have immigration inspectors although Sterkspruit is near the border with Lesotho. Although the offices of the Department of Home Affairs were closed by the Department of Labour in Sterkspruit, it took years for the Department of Public Works to help. Another finding was that some South African citizens were hiring out their Identity Documents in order for noncitizens to access services that are meant for South African citizens.
Another one was that some Lesotho nationals were allegedly paying South African citizens to register

children in order to access documentation like birth certificates. Another one was that people were crossing borders, in sight of the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, and were apprehended apparently because the committee was there but nothing was done as a consequence. Schoolchildren, as well, from Lesotho, commute daily to school in South Africa across the border, this was observed by the community. There were some of the allegations that were clearly in breach of the law but there were no consequences as I have said before.

The committee therefore recommends, firstly, the Department of Home Affairs should deploy more immigration officers around that area, that and immigration inspectors as well. Secondly, the Department of Public Works should expedite getting office space for the Department of Home Affairs. Thirdly, the issue of fraudulent documents for foreign nationals should be dealt with by the Department of Home Affairs and the Stakeholder forum which includes the SANDF and the SA Police Service, SAPS. Hospitals should include the Department of Home Affairs in the discharge checklist.

These are few reasons among many but surely together let us make South Africa safer. The government is on the right track. Yes, there are problems but we are getting better everyday. Thank you.



Sihlalo, sibonge kakhulu. Siphinde futhi sithi siyacela ukuthi leNdlu ehloniphekile iwamukukele lombiko wekomidi. Siyabonga kakhulu, ngokukhulu ukuhlonipha.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: No objections but the DA would like to make a declaration House Chair.

Declaration(s) of Vote:


Mnu M A FIGLAN: Okuqala kufuneka siyithethe inyani yokuba asihambi ngokoMgaqo-siseko. Utyelelo lokuhlola belungelulo ngaphandle kwengxaki yokuvalwa kwe-ofisi phaya eNelspruit. Amagosa ase-Nelspruit ayesazi ukuba i- ofisi iza kuvala kwakwiminyaka emithathu egqithileyo.


Thank you very much for the opportunity to give the feedback report of the 1-4 August 2017 oversight trip to the Eastern Cape. As we nearing the end of 2017, it has been an interesting year in South Africa. We have been through a terrible year as a country with more exposures of corruption and plundering taken under the watch of the #ANC.

I would like to take this moment to recognise Helen Suzman who laid a foundation in the apartheid era for a truly united prosperous and non-racial South Africa for all of us who live in it.


Nithanda ningathandi, usebenzile ke lo mama kuba ebehamba kwezi lokishi zethu.


Firstly, let me state that it is our duty as Home Affairs committee to do oversight and not wait for complaints from the communities. The other complainant was Mr Sono, who sent emails from 2015 but we only did oversight this

year. The second issue is that the oversight that we have done last year, the report was not even tabled. So ...


... ngumnqa ke lowo.


Public health service also free schooling from the Eastern Cape government was given to the Lesotho people, identity documents were hired out for them to get the social grant from the South Africans. The oversight was also propelled by the closure of Home Affairs office which officials knew about three years ago before the Department of Labour closed the office due to safety of the citizens and workers. Also, the issue of provincial managers who are also acting on other posts is also another problem. The department was well aware of the closure of this office; why has the department failed to make any arrangement for another accommodation in the department and why Public Works doesn’t assist the same department under the same government?

There is shortage of immigration inspectorate through the area closer to Lesotho border. There is a dire need for the Department of Public Works and other departments such as Department of Home Affairs to work hand in hand, one government, to improve the situation. We have also acknowledged that the municipality from Sterkspruit is working closely with the Department of Home Affairs, though we want to say ...


... isebe malingalali emqokozweni malincedise xa linikwe ithuba ukuze kuhlawuleke irente.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, the oversight visit to the Eastern Cape shed the depth of rots and despairs in this department, especially in border towns. Sterkspruit is closer to Lesotho and most people from Lesotho enter the country through that area. The level of corruption going on there is scary. Home Affairs officials exploit the desperation of our brothers and sisters from Lesotho who wants to escape a life of misery in their country and make a new start in South Africa.

Not only is the department facing the perennial problem of corruption there, it is also seriously understaffed, making it virtually impossible for the office there to be able to deal with the daily influx of people from Lesotho. But this points to a much bigger problem that we should not in essence have these artificial borders that separate our people. There are people in Sterkspruit with families in Lesotho and vice versa. We should as much as possible make it easier for people between these two countries to come and go as they please without the restrictions requirements normally associated with border control.

We therefore rejects this report, it offers no solutions to the problems faced by the people of Sterkspruit in as far as Home Affairs is concerned. Thank you very much.

Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, once again I was not on this oversight visit but let me say that when I read the report and its recommendations, one can also just apply and implement these recommendations in other parts of our country where there are border areas. I think the common factor that the hon Gumede spoke about that emerges once

again in this Parliament is the scourge of corruption. It is the scourge of corruption that led to people getting false identity documents or false papers that would entitle them to come into our country and vice versa.

Unless we deal with the scourge of corruption in all government departments, then this is going to continue but unfortunately it starts at the top. They say a fish rots from the head and if it starts from there then all the way down you gets the scourge of corruption. We have to deal with the head of the fish and we know who the head is. Now having said that, we support the issue of
... now I can’t criticize the Chair and I see that the hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party is being extra kind to you as the Chair because you both come from Mpumalanga so that is a good thing that he is doing.

As far as mobile offices, we certainly need mobile offices because access for people from rural areas is certainly a problem when it comes to Home Affairs. Even those rural people when they come to Home Affairs offices, you find them standing in long queues, having being there from 4 o’clock in the morning, the

infrastructure is extremely poor and these are areas where the Department of Home Affairs and the Department of Public Works need to come together so that at least our people have some confidence in the government of the day.

Undocumented foreign nationals are a problem but sometimes I wonder hon Chairperson when you walk through the streets of certain rural towns, how you get Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Chinese and all kinds of people selling fruits and vegetable and other wears on the streets. Now what kind of skills are they bringing into our country? They are taking away the jobs of our own people who should be selling fruits and vegetables in their communities. The only way they are coming to our country without any skills is because of corruption and that is the area that we need to look at and I am sure that the committee of Home Affairs is looking at this quite seriously.

Finally, we are very pleased that the Director-General Apleni is back. I am sure it must have been a very traumatic time for him, totally unnecessary, but at least

the truth has prevailed and we wish him the well as he continues leading this department. Thank you.

Mr S C MNCWABE: Chair, let me also declare that I am also not serving in the committee, I am presenting the report on behalf of hon Shaik Emam who is in Johannesburg.

The Department of Home Affairs has the mandate to ensure that all people living, entering and leaving South Africa are properly documented.




The NFP acknowledges that the execution of this mandate is challenging particularly in areas away from urban centres. The oversight reported here, gives us a glimpse of these challenges. The report contains comprehensive observation and very valid recommendations. In particular, we support the recommendation of the committee that the department should consider deploying more immigration inspectors in and around Sterkspruit to

deal with proliferation of undocumented foreign nationals, as hon Singh has said.

Our social services are under severe strain because we do not have an accurate record of how many people to plan for. Undocumented foreign nationals are adding to these challenges. Hon Mkongi, an effective control and record keeping will go a long way in assisting to plan for future social services in addition to accurately documenting of foreign nationals. We also agree with the recommendations of the committee that this issue of fraudulent documents for foreign nationals should be dealt with swiftly and those found responsible must be brought to account.

It is a pity that officials whom we trust to uphold and implement the law, are tempted by greed to betray that trust and the NFP believes that they must be dealt with severely as an example and deterrent to other department officials who might be tempted to engage in such corrupt activity. Over all Chair; the NFP believes that our people in rural areas should be afforded the same level of services as people living in urban areas. We see

technological advances in the department such as partnering with banks to provide smart identity cards to citizens, yet, such technological services are not available to our rural populations.

The NFP believes that increasing the use of mobile Home Affairs offices accompanied by increased capacity information technology, may well be a way of ensuring that rural people also have increased and simplest access. We are encouraged to take note of the committee recommendation for the deployment of mobile offices to Sterkspruit area. We trust that similar recommendation will apply to other rural areas. We support the report. Thank you.

Ms D D RAPHUTI: Hon Chairperson, we the ANC, supports the report of Home Affairs tabled in this august House today. This declaration is to inform the Members of Parliament about the oversight taken by the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs in Sterkspruit and other surrounding areas such as; Bensonvale College, Aliwal North, Gcina Village, Burgersdorp and Telle Bridge Port of Entry in the Eastern Cape from the 1-4 August 2017.

The visit was undertaken due to complaints received from the communities and leaders within communities especially, Mr Sono who is part of traditional council. He wrote on many occasions on poor services that the communities receive and undocumented people in the area. At this oversight meeting that was held, it was found out that Mr Sono did not follow any due processes of Home Affairs and was also not working within legitimate structures within communities.

Not withstanding the fact that communities do not always understand the processes of government and therefore he assumed that engaging directly with the portfolio committee, will escalate in resolving the crisis in the community. It is therefore resolved that Mr Sono must refrain from going to Home Affairs but can only go do his personal issues.

Despite several issues that were identified, we recommended the following; a closely working relationship between communities and Department of Home Affairs. The Department of Home Affairs should deploy more immigration officials in and around Sterkspruit to deal with

undocumented communities. The Department of Home Affairs stakeholders’ forum should not be headed by political person, holding a political office.

Hon members, I just want to tell you that the Telle Bridge Port of Entry is very porous so we are asking this august House to speed up the Border Management Authority. We also said that the intergovernmental relationship and services must be brought closer to the communities even those living in the reaching rural areas such as laboratory services from the Department of Health.

We wish to extend our gratitude to Ekhaya Lodge owner for the warm hospitality that she gave us. We appeal to those doing oversights to support black owned businesses like Mrs Nomonde Lugasa who is the owner of Ekhaya Lodge in Sterkspruit. I think she needs a hand of applause because she is a black business woman having a lodge in Sterkspruit. We also want to extend our appreciation to the chef, Ms Ntswaki Mokgothu, who was preparing healthy food for us. We wish to also extend our appreciation to the government in their initiative in supporting small

businesses. #Support black womens’ businesses. [Applause.]

In conclusion, by supporting this report, we acknowledge that more should and can still be done if we work together to create united, prosperous South Africa for our safety, security and most importantly, our peace. The ANC supports the report. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members order!

Question put.

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Report accordingly adopted.



(Draft Resolution)

Mr M P SIBANDE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

congratulates Chad le Clos for being awarded the trophy for the Best Male Athlete in Africa at a glittering evening honouring top sportsmen and women around the globe at the Association of National Olympic Committee Gala Awards in Prague, in the Czech Republic, on Thursday, 2 November 2017;

recalls that Mr Le Clos has been receiving gold medals throughout the year, including taking on rival US champ Tom Shields in the butterfly events at the Doha leg of the Fina Swimming World Cup where he won both the 50m and 200m events;

further recalls that at the 2017 Fina Swimming World Cup short course in Berlin, he also took gold in the 50m and 200m butterfly and silver in the men’s 100m freestyle;

recognises and commends his achievements and successes globally; and

wishes him more success in his future endeavours.

Agreed to.

(Draft Resolution)

Mr M BAGRAIM: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

notes that Advocate Michael Donen SC represented many freedom fighters during the days of apartheid;

further notes that Advocate Michael Donen SC was highly successful in representing Major-General Petane in 1987;

recalls that Major General Petane passed away in September 2017 and was buried last month, on 7 October 2017;

further recalls that Major General Petane was arrested on charges of terrorism against the apartheid state, and that the defence raised by Petane’s advocate, Advocate Michael Donen, was a claim for prisoner of war status;

acknowledges that this prisoner of war defence was successful in that Major General Petane was able to avoid the death sentence;

further acknowledges that Advocate Michael Donen SC stepped in to represent another hero of the peoples’ struggle for liberation from apartheid namely Michael Lucas, unfortunately he was not able to avoid the ultimate sacrifice but in so doing was able to save his comrades from the gallows;

recognises the outstanding contribution made by Advocate Donen to the rule of law;

further recognises his excellent work in representing freedom fighters during a time in South Africa’s history when representing freedom fighters was not only risky, but also destructive to his practice; and

congratulates Advocate Donen SC on this remarkable effort he put into representing freedom fighters for many years.

Agreed to.

(Draft Resolution)

Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

notes that tomorrow, Bafana Bafana is playing the first of two must win games against Senegal;

further notes that the first of these games will be played in South Africa at Peter Mokaba stadium in Polokwane;

acknowledges that if Bafana Bafana win both of these games, the national team will make its first appearance at a World Cup in eight years;

further acknowledges that it is the national duty of every patriotic South African to support Bafana Bafana, either by watching them on TV or by going to the stadium;

recognises that this is one of the better Bafana Bafana teams in recent years, and has the quality to win both of these games;

realises the importance of supporting the national team as they are our representatives on the global stage;

wishes our soccer national team good luck and encourages all South Africans to attend the game and fill up Peter Mokaba stadium.

Agreed to.

(Draft Resolution)

Ms C C M PILANE-MAJAKE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

welcomes the University of Cape Town’s proposal to change the name of Jameson Hall to the Sarah Baartman Memorial Hall;

notes that Jameson Hall is named after Cecil Rhodes's right-hand man, Leander Starr Jameson, whom the infamous Jameson Raid is named;

recalls that in 1895, Jameson assembled a private army in an attempt to overthrow the Boer

government, but was forced to surrender just short of Johannesburg;

believes that the motivation for choosing Sarah Baartman to replace the mercenary and perpetrator of colonial crimes, was mainly to indicate Ms Baartman’s exploitation in the name of colonial science;

recalls that when she died in Paris, France parts of her body had been dissected and her remains were displayed at the Museum of Man, and for more than a century visitors could view Baartman’s brain, skeleton and genitalia and plaster casts of her body;

further recalls that her remains were returned to South Africa in 2002 and she was buried in the Eastern Cape -         may her soul rest in peace;

believes that her story needs to be told because there are so many lessons one can learn from it; and

fully supports the renaming of James Hall to that of the Sarah Baartman Memorial Hall.

Agreed to.

(Draft Resolution)

Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

notes that the national Lilizela Tourism Awards 2017 was held at the Sandton Convention on 28 October;

further notes that KwaZulu-Natal and Mpumalanga were among the provinces that clinched some of the night’s biggest accolades, KwaZulu-Natal winners were Azalea Bed and Breakfast in Howick, the Oyster Box Hotel for Best Five star hotel, Inyati Game Lodge won best Visitor

Experience - wildlife encounters, while Kruger Park Lodge won for best 4 star Self Catering Shared Vacation;

acknowledges that this year, they launched the Hall of Fame Award that recognises legends in the tourism sector and the first inductee named was Esther Mahlangu, the legendary Ndebele artist and ambassador of South African Tourism, who was recently honoured with a mural in New York City;

congratulates all the winners and contenders at these awards because winner or not, the business recognised by these awards are crucial for the success and growth of our tourism industry which is extremely important for the growth of the economy of the country; and

urges government to continue to create an enabling environment for tourism to thrive and work with these key role players to make holiday travel more affordable, attractive and accessible to our fellow South Africans.

Agreed to.

(Draft Resolution)

Prof N M KHUBISA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

notes that a very dangerous new street drug, commonly known as flakka, has surfaced in Durban;

further notes that the use of this synthetic drug often leads to paranoia and delirium, resulting in users behaving like zombies and endangering their lives and that of others;

acknowledges that flakka is considered to be ten times stronger than cocaine but much cheaper;

further acknowledges that flakka is associated with mental disturbances and that this makes treatment far more challenging and costly than other drugs;

calls on the SA Police Service and other law enforcement agencies to make every effort possible to keep this dangerous drugs off our streets; and

encourages eThekwini Municipality and nongovernment organisations, NGOs, to join forces and roll out an information campaign to warn the people of Durban about the devastating dangers of flakka.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M P SIBANDE: House Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

congratulates the Pretoria-born chef Chantel Dartnall for recently being crowned the world’s best female chef at the prestigious international awards in Warsaw, Poland;

notes that she faced strong competition from globally acclaimed chefs including Spain’s Elena Arzak, the 2016 winner;

recalls that Dartnall has twice been named South Africa’s Chef of the Year;

further recalls that she was also placed

number at 32 in the Best Chef Awards Top 100 list for 2017, the highest positioned woman and one of only three to make the top 50;

recognises that she was also the only South African chef listed in the top 100;

commends her for flying the South African flag high in the international arena; and

wishes her the best in her future endeavours.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms C N MAJEKE: House Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes that previously disadvantaged women who work for upper-class people as domestic workers are still subjected to ill treatment, notwithstanding the entrenched statutes that protect employees from exploitation and violation of their rights;

expresses its shock that a 45-year-old Gauteng man allegedly raped a woman who worked for him as a domestic worker;

commends this woman for coming out and reporting the molestation by this cruel man;

believes that such cases of rape and ill treatment are still prevalent under domestic workers;

calls on the South African government and justice system to severely punish such inhumane behaviour in order to deter other employers from molesting, sexually abusing and exploiting vulnerable employees; and

further calls on the Department of Women in the Presidency and Department of Labour to come up with measures to eradicate such acts and protect the rights of women and employees through safe mechanisms.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms Z JONGBLOED: House Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes with deep concern the attack on the Speaker of the Kannaland Municipal Council by a member of the Independent Civic Organisation of South Africa, Icosa, opposition during an official council meeting;

further notes that apart from the appalling abuse and threats she had to endure, a jug of water was thrown directly at her;

acknowledges that violence, especially violence against women, has reached unacceptable levels in South Africa and seems to be spiralling out of control;

further acknowledges that a certain standard of behaviour is expected from local councillors and

that a certain decorum must be upheld in the interest of democracy and common human decency;

calls on Ladismith police and legal processes to deal with this level of thuggery in the strongest possible way;

expresses its deepest abhorrence by the manner in which progressive local governance is being compromised to the detriment of services delivery;

condemns this act in the strongest possible terms; and

wishes Speaker Theron well as she continues to lead a council that is working hard to transcend political differences to become real agents of change by improving lives and making a difference.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr T E MULAUDZI: House Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes that yesterday, 23 years ago, this Parliament passed the Restitution of Rights Land Act, allowing South Africans forcibly removed from land since 1913 to lodge claims for the return of their land;

further notes that whilst this Act only deals with land stolen in the last 104 years, there has been no concrete progress in land restitution;

acknowledges that 23 years later, white South Africans still own over 67% of commercial farm land in South Africa, reaping billions of rand of profit from this land, whilst the people whose

land they stole live in poverty and are reliant on grants to support themselves;

further acknowledges that the lack of transformation in land ownership shows the failure of this Act to address land dispossession;

notes that this Act has passed its expiry date and a new approach to land restitution is needed; and

believes the most viable way forward is simple: expropriation of land without compensation.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are there any objections?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): In light of the objection, the motion without notice will become a notice of motion on the Order Paper.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: House Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

welcomes the appointment of the following judges in various High Courts on Thursday, 2 November 2017:

Justice Selby Mfanelo Mbenenge;

Mr Ndumiso Patrick Jali;

Mr Mbulelo Standford Jolwana;

Adv Phillip Jacobus Loubser SC;

Adv Norman Davis SC;

Ms Maletsatsi Betty Mahalelo;

Adv Tintswalo Annah Nana Makhubele SC;

Mr Cassim Mohamed Sardiwalla;

Adv David Unterhalter SC;

Adv Cornelius Jacobus Van Der Westhuizen;

Mr Taswell Deveril Papier;

Mr Mushtak Kassim Parker;

Adv Mark Louis Sher SC; and

Mr Eduard Derek Wille;

notes that they were appointed in accordance with the terms of sections 174(6) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, and on the advice of the Judicial Service Commission;

believes that their appointments will assist in strengthening South Africa’s justice system;

trusts with confidence that they will carry their responsibilities with diligence and prudence as required; and

wishes them well in their new positions of responsibility.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M P SIBANDE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes with sadness the killing of 23 people and wounding of 11 people by a suicide car bomber outside a popular hotel in Somalia’s capital on Saturday, 28 October 2017;

further notes that some of the deaths were caused by a second blast which occurred in the area minutes later, as well as gunfire within the hotel;

commends the security forces of Somalia for their intervention in ending a night-long siege at the Mogadishu Hotel by five extremist attackers who stormed the building, killing three attackers and capturing two alive;

recalls that this massacre happens just a few weeks after the twin truck bombs which killed more than 270 people and injured hundreds in Mogadishu;

elieves that terrorism is not a solution to solve political, economic, social or religious issues;

calls on the African Union to find ways to deal with increasing acts of terrorism that seem to engulf Africa;

conveys its condolences to the families of the deceased and the government of Somalia; and

wishes those that are injured a speedy recovery.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms C N N PILANE-MAJAKE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House –

notes with great shock the death of 10 people as a result of vehicle which was ambushed, lost control then crashed into an oncoming vehicle believed to be carrying teachers and pupils;

further notes that the ambushed car was carrying the member of Klip River Taxi Association and four of his security guards;

understands that the five people in the bakkie died and five other people who were travelling in the kombi also died, whilst those seriously injured were rushed to the hospital;

condemns the use of violence with the contempt it deserves;

supports the police investigations on the matter and calls for speedily apprehension of those behind this tragedy; and

conveys its condolences to the deceased families and wishes those injured a speedy recovery.

Agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr R T HUGO: Chair, I hereby move without notice, on behalf of the DA:

That this House –

notes that a drought relief convoy of 31 trucks arrived in the drought stricken town of Beaufort West in the Western Cape, yesterday;

acknowledges that the Neeuhof Boerdery and Hendrik van Wyk Vervoer managed to donate and transport 1 500 bales in 31 truckloads of valuable feed for farmers in the Western Cape;

also acknowledges that the Western Cape is currently in the midst of one of the worst droughts in decades;

further acknowledges that the feed will be distributed from today to various areas in the Central Karoo, in places such as Laingsburg, Prince Albert and Merweville;

thanks AgriSA for their continued involvement in assisting farmers and farming communities; and

thanks Jannie Neeuhof and his family for their incredibly generous and much needed donation that will go a long way in supporting farming communities of the Central Karoo during this very difficult time.

The motion was objected.

The motion will be converted to a Notice of Motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms C N N PILANE-MAJAKE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the ANC:

That the House –

notes that World Science Day for Peace and Development is celebrated each year on 10 November, to highlight the important role that science has in society;

further notes that it also underlines the importance and relevance of science in our daily lives;

understands that by linking science more closely with society, World Science Day for Peace and

Development aims to ensure that citizens are kept informed of developments in science;

recalls that the day offers the opportunity to mobilise all actors around the topic of science for peace and development, from government officials to the media and to school pupils;

remembers that since its proclamation by Unesco in 2001, World Science Day for Peace and Development has generated many concrete projects, programmes and funding for science around the world;

recognises this year’s theme, Science for Global Understanding; and

calls upon governments to use this day to publicly affirm their commitment to increased support for scientific initiatives that help society.

Agreed to.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms H H MALGAS (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC welcomes the guilty verdict handed down to Jayde Panayiotou’s killers, her husband Christopher Panayiotou and his two co- accused. The ANC condemns in the strongest terms the rampant and endemic surge in intimate partner killings.
These deplorable violent acts against women have reached alarming and intolerable levels. Every week, South Africa is confronted with the assault and gruesome killings of women by their intimate partners, relatives, or strangers.

Having been found guilty by Judge Dayalin Chetty on the charge of murder, we believe that is reason enough for a harsh sentence to be handed down on 17 November 2017 to Christopher Panayiotou and his co-accused. This will set a precedent to all partners who remain hellbent on threatening women and their immediate families daily, violating even court orders interdicting them against gender violence. We commend the police, prosecutorial

team and the judge for the sterling work done in ensuring that justice is served.

The ANC calls on all sectors of society to unite against all forms of abuse against women and children.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr M BAGRAIM (DA): Chairperson, last week, the latest Quarterly Labour Force Survey revealed that 9,4 million are now unemployed in our country. This means that
118 000 more South Africans are now unemployed than in the previous quarter.

The DA strongly condemns the Department of Labour for overseeing this massive loss of employment. Youth unemployment has become an epidemic where millions of young people struggle to find any job whatsoever, whilst our government stands by idly. It is clear that youth unemployment has become a national crisis that needs urgent intervention, and yet there is clearly no

political will to improve the living conditions of our youth. These unacceptably high numbers of unemployment are set to continue to sky rocket, as South Africa continues to weaken under the rule of the ANC.

Whilst our country is in need of leadership that will encourage economic growth and job creation, our government continues to jump from one scandal to the next. It has become clear the government does not have any plan whatsoever to address unemployment and create jobs. When the DA comes into government, you will see these unemployed numbers lower significantly, as our focus will be on elevating the people and not self- enrichment and putting money into the hands of the politically connected elite. [Applause.]


(Member’s Statement)

Ms N V MENTE (EFF): Chair, the EFF notes the Minister of Finance’s announcement of the establishment of an inquiry

into the tax administration and governance of the SA Revenue Service, Sars.

The announcement correctly points out the concerning undercollection of tax revenue and the trend that has been persistent in the past few years. However, the Minister incorrectly attributes the undercollection of revenue to the poor economic cycle. There is no mention of tax avoidance and illicit financial flows as the main and most likely factors driving lower revenue collection.

In the past, the EFF wrote to the Davis Tax Committee, Sars, and previous Ministers of Finance to make concrete proposals on dealing with tax gaps, as the result of aggressive tax avoidance and illicit financial flows.
Amongst the principal recommendations was the establishment of a judicial commission of inquiry in terms of section 84(2)(f) of the Constitution, under the President’s responsibilities, to investigate thoroughly aggressive tax avoidance and illicit financial flows and its impact on government’s ability to raise maximum tax revenue to deliver services.

Terms of the commission of inquiry to be established must include the examination of tax avoidance, base erosion, and illicit financial flows. Thank you. [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)

Dr C Q MADLOPHA (ANC): Chair, the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, is an ANC-led government initiative aimed at reducing poverty and unemployment through the provision of training and short- to medium-term labour- intensive work opportunities to poor and unemployed South Africans. We have witnessed significant strides in addressing poverty alleviation and job creation.

Therefore, the ANC views the increase of the minimum wage for all Expanded Public Works Programme participants from R83,59 to R88,00 per day or per task in line with the current inflation rate, with came into effect on
1 November 2017, as a positive step, as it significantly

boosts the socioeconomic conditions of the EPWP participants.

The ANC believes the Expanded Public Works Programme continues to play a significant role in uplifting the lives of EPWP participants and communities, through the creation of work opportunities. It provides much-needed services under the EPWP sectors, including the infrastructure, nonstate, environment and culture sectors, as well as the social sectors. The impact is noticeable through the assets created by and skills provided to participants.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr N SINGH (IFP): Chairperson, it is a matter of growing concern that some – if not all – financial institutions, and mainly the banks, do not adequately protect the interests of clients whose accounts have been debited

when the client himself or herself has not given the authority to do so.

Cases in point – and there are not many members in the House for me to ask how many of them have fallen victim, unfortunately – but there are victims where your account gets a debit of R99, and unless you look at your account, which is something I don’t do very often, you find that these debits go through. When you call the financial institutions, they will give you the number of the person who debited your account. You call those numbers, and you don’t get anybody who answers those calls.

I think it is the responsibility of the financial institutions and the responsibility of the Minister of Finance and the Banking Association SA to intervene in this regard. Some of us may be able to afford 24 deductions of R99, but there are many who cannot afford the 24 x R99. When you go a bank and ask them to reverse these entries, it becomes quite a mission. I think it is a serious problem facing not only us members of the House but facing South Africans as a whole that you get these

hoax businesses that operate from offices and debit people’s accounts unknowingly and unwittingly.

I hope that this government takes this matter seriously and intervenes in this regard. I thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. You should have asked me. I am a victim. UDM?


(Member’s Statement)

Ms C N MAJEKE (UDM): Hon Chair, we still wish the class of 2017 energy and determination to succeed. The World Economic Forum has a dim assessment report about the quality of our basic education as compared to other developing nations in the continent and the world over. They record that our science and mathematics performance is dismal.

Africa Check ranks South Africa behind poorer countries like Kenya, Swaziland, Tanzania and Zimbabwe on literacy and numeracy. Yet, our annual expenditure is far greater than theirs. These reports should trigger a sense of urgency to reform our education system for all.

Even though education opportunities are open to all citizens, quality education remains a privilege for the wealthy. The poor and vulnerable remain disenfranchised on the fringes of development. This approach limits the scope from which the country can rely on for the production and moulding of our future leaders.

TVET Colleges are also not doing well. These colleges are receiving reasonable subsidies from government but they still fail to meet the immediate demands of labour market. Students are not equipped with practical technical training.

At university level we are experiencing disturbing reports of dropouts. This means more than 80% take longer and some do not finish their degrees. South Africa needs a qualitative and accessible education system that is

responsive to its political, social and economic challenges. I thank you.


(Member’s Statement)


Nkul X MABASA (ANC): Mutshamaxitulu, R1 biliyoni yi averiwa nkwama wa SMME lowuntswa. ANC yi tshemba leswaku ku kula ka mabindzu lamantsongo i nhlana wa ku pima ku kurisiwa ka vanhu na ku tshunetiwa ka vanhu eka ikhonomi xikan’we na ku kurisa makulele yo angarhela ya ku aka ikhonomi ya nhlanganelo (social economy) hi ku kucetela vun’we bya vaaki (social solidarity) hi ku tumbuluxa mintirho yo tala. Hi hoyozela ku tiyimisela ka mfumu wa ANC wa ku nyikela hi R1 biliyoni eka nkwama wa mali wo kongomisa eka mabindzu lamantsongo. Leswi swi ta kucetela ku kurisiwa ka mabindzu lamantsongo, ngopfungopfu emalokhixini.


This allocation of R1 billion to the newly-announced fund for Small and Medium Enterprises, together with the ANC- led government’s National Informal Business Upliftment Strategy designed to assist township enterprises to upgrade their business activities, are necessary instruments to scale up support and expand the number and viability of co-operatives and small businesses to achieve our development vision.

The ANC-led government is implementing key elements of this strategy to boost township enterprises, increase their involvement in the economy, as well as to expand opportunities for township entrepreneurs. Thank you. [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)

Mr N T GODI (APC): The APC, the revolutionary party has been consistent in its rejection of the status quo where communities with mines live in abject poverty in underdeveloped places whilst the wealth underneath their

land is mined 24 hours nonstop, cut out away to make a few people filthy rich. The APC says no to this.
Communities have always said no, but with no one listening.

We hear that the Chamber of Mines has taken government to court over the revised Mining Charter in large measure because there was no consultation. The APC’s question is: Do mining companies consult communities? Do mining companies care about communities? If lack of consultation is reason enough for the Chamber of Mines to go to court, what is the recourse of communities trampled on by mining companies?

The APC has news for the Chamber of Mines. The African people have no other cheek to turn. They are asserting themselves their dignity and humanity. They hate the mining companies for their neglect, exploitation, pollution and treachery. To the APC the centrality of the people in the Mining Charter is glaringly absent. Our people deserve more than the Social and Labour Plans, SLPs which are not implemented by the mines. Thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Ms P E ADAMS (ANC): The ANC views tourism as a significant and critical sector in South Africa’s economy as it contributes to trade, sustains 700 000 direct jobs and is performing stronger than the other growth sectors. Thus, the ANC welcomes the initiative of the Department of Tourism’s efforts to ensure that tourists visiting the country are safe and have access to information while enjoying their experiences in South Africa.

The department recently launched the pilot programme in Gauteng which places youth aged between 18 and 35 in tourism hubs like Vilakazi Street in Orlando, Soweto, where they will ensure the safety of tourists. The monitors will be linked to law enforcement agencies to allow seamless flow of information and engagement.

This programme is part of the ANC-led government efforts to fulfil the National Development Plan’s mandate which

identified the tourism sector as a key growing sector in the economy. The programme will also be rolled out to other provinces. I thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr P G ATKINSON (DA): Chairperson, the 11 November is Remembrance Day commemorated around the world in memory of all those who died in conflicts serving their country. Remembrance Day has its origins as a memorial to those who perished in the First World War. The symbol of remembrance, the Poppy comes from those who grew on the First World War battlefields of Flanders in Belgium and is a poignant reminder of the terrible loss of life that occurred there.

The significance of choosing 11 November as the date of the memorial is that, this was a date that the First World War came to end at 11am on 11 November 1918.
Subsequent to this, further significant conflicts have

taken place across the world and this day now commemorates all those who have died in service of their country.

South Africans of all races have played a prominent role in many of these conflicts. In the news recently has been the recognition of the role played by black South African troops in the First World War and particularly the 646 troops who perished during the sinking of SAS Mendi on
21 February 1917 in the English Channel. In memory of their sacrifice, the SA Navy has named the last of its four Valour-class frigates, the SAS Mendi when it entered service in March 2007.

Hundreds of thousands of South Africans have taken part in these many conflicts over the past century and many sacrificed their lives. These include not only those who died in the major world wars but also in our most recent liberation struggle when soldiers from both the former SADF and MK died. The words of the poem For the Fallen, commemorates their sacrifice. Thank you. [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)


Nk M S KHAWULA (EFF): Ngibonge Sihlalo lapho ngaphambili. Ngisukuma egameni le-EFF ukuphakamisa lokhu, siyi-EFF kudala sithi abantu abanikwe umhlaba wabo, nina ANC ningayigqizi qakala leyonto. Kuyimanje laphaya eThekwini kunabantu abadlala ngabantu, babathembisa ukubabuyisela umhlaba wase-Newlands East. Laba bantu babakhokhisa izimali ezingango-R150 njalo ngenyanga. Ihholo lakhona uma uzongena, kunemali futhi oyikhokhayo. Okubuhlungu wukuthi lamahholo awakamasipala. [Ubuwelewele.] Kunabantu abadlala ngomphakathi, khona ngisho nabesifazane njengomama umaMkhize.

Lolu daba sengathi lungasukunyelwa ngokushesha ngoba kuningi okungatholakali laphaya. Labantu bayashintshana ngangokuthi kuyimanje sekukhona omunye ubaba onguMpungose. Lolu daba ludala imihlangano ibanjelwa kulamahholo. Lamahholo ekubanjelwa khona yika-Bester laphaya eNanda, kuphinde kube yika-L KwaMashu.
Esikucelayo lana kuNgqongqoshe [Minister] umhlonishwa u- Nkwinti wukuthi, akasichazele ukuthi ngabe uyabazi yini

laba bantu. Okunye okusiphatha kabi, yilento yokukhokhiswa kabantu amahholo ngoba amahholo awakamasipala futhi [and] nanemali yokungena ngaphakathi kukhokhwa o-R20 ukeshi [cash] futhi bengicela kancane njengoba nawe mhlawumbe ... kusuka bonke abantu baye laphaya. Ngiyabonga.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr D V MNGUNI (ANC): The ANC is committed in the provision of community library in every municipal ward in South Africa. This is attested by the recent opening of the state-of-the-art Zithabiseni Public Library in Mpumalanga province fulfilling the 2014 Manifesto assertion.

The Zithabiseni Public Library boasts of a study area, media room used for watching educational materials, and a play area for children FOR storytelling and play

activities. There is also a computer room with internet and Wi-Fi access.

This library will service six high schools, eight primary schools and 10 pre-primary schools within the Bomandu community, which is made up of three wards.

The ANC commends the setting aside of R30 million for building of new libraries in that province, with R10 million budgeted for the upgrading of two libraries in Mashishing and Standerton. The ANC also believes that the speeding up of the provision of libraries and library resources will assist greatly in the literacy drive. I thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr L MBINDA (PAC): Chairperson of the session, as the PAC we remain deeply concerned with the ongoing victimisation of student leaders in institutions of higher learning

with other vice chancellors behaving like these institutions belong to them.

As a nation we cannot allow the victimisation of our future leaders. The education that our student leaders are fighting for is for their own development and growth. As the PAC we call upon the Department of Higher Education and Training, its Minister and university managers in general, to understand the call for free education as a societal issue that we as a nation must collectively work together to realise for the betterment of the majority of our impoverished people in moving forward. Our student vanguard, the Pan Africanist Student Movement of Azania, PASMA, as a leading force has been identified as a threat wherever in confronts university managers. Its leaders are being expelled, harassed, arrested and some are even prevented from writing exams. There are also cooked charges.

As the PAC we take very strong exception like that. This problem is taking place more especially here in the Western Cape. Thank you.


USIHLALO WENDLU (Kkz M G Boroto): Tjhebetjhebe! Mhlonitjhwa Mbinda, besingakuboni; besithi awukho.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr P J MNGUNI (ANC): House Chairperson, November 8 marks a very special centenary marking the events of the great October socialist revolution in Russia in 1917, one which is of crucial significance in respect of the struggles against the devastation brought about by imperialism and its catastrophic interventions.

The Decree on Peace, written by Vladimir Lenin, was passed by the Second Congress of the Soviet of Workers, Soldiers, and Peasants’ Deputies on 8 November 1917, following the success of the October Revolution.   So fundamental was the ending of the inter-imperialist First World War to the future of the peoples of Russia and the

peoples of all belligerent countries that it was articulated as a first priority of the first workers’ state within the first 24 hours of its existence.

The decree described continuation of the imperialist war, motivated by the issue of division of conquered territories between the richest and most powerful countries, as “the greatest of crimes against humanity.” For the first time in the history of the world, the will of workers, soldiers and peasants with state power in their hands was being expressed in respect of the resolution of conflict and the rights of peoples.

The Soviet Union, which was established as a direct state outcome of the Great October Socialist Revolution, contributed immensely to our struggle for liberation and social emancipation as South Africa. Thank you. [Time expired.]


(Member’s Statement)

Mr K P ROBERTSON (DA): Hon House Chair, the DA supports land reform. We believe that South Africans we lost their land due to the discriminatory laws of the past must have it returned. We argue that land owners are to be assisted via agricultural mentorship programmes and skills training so that restituted land can be used to its fullest potential.

What we will not tolerate is the blatant corruption by departmental officials mandated to assist beneficiaries of Communal Property Associations, CPAs. This, as discovered on a recent parliamentary committee visit to Mpumalanga which left DA parliamentarians disgusted at the blatant corruption being committed by state officials and this to the detriment of the poor, uneducated South Africans who rely on the state for guidance and support.

The testimonies heard by the committee implicate officials and even an ex district mayor of fraudulent land activities, ganster-like tactics that are deployed to silence complainants.

Mpumalanga is in such disarray that there was a claim what would have been finalised by the state but when the claimants were to move on to the property, they found that the state had purchased the incorrect property.

There are still approximately 7 000 claims prior to 1998 that need to be finalised and 130 000 outstanding claims in total. Now we know exactly why this is. Thank you.


(Member’s Statement)

Mr A F MADELLA (ANC): House Chairperson, The ANC welcomes the handing over of a R50 million state-of-the-art fire station to serve the community of Thokoza and Katlehong on Friday, 03 November 2017.

This new fire station replaces the old, smaller structure which had only three fire engines and three ambulances.
This new upgraded fire station is fully equipped with a new water tanker, a major pumper, rescue pumper, medium

pumper and four ambulances. There are now five fire engines in total.

The fire station was constructed over a two year period. It provided employment opportunities for 66 local workers and six local subcontractors. The ANC is of the view that this new structure will enable the fire station to respond quicker to emergencies and cover a wider area, as well as responding to the high risk Alrode industrial area, which has potentially flammable petrol depots in the vicinity.

The fire station also runs community awareness training programmes to empower citizens on dealing with emergencies and practical steps to take in case of fire. This is service delivery at its best, and indeed a good story to tell.


(Ministerial Responses)

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Hon Chair, I want to start off by responding to the statement from the DA on the employment statistics and simply to say that we remain deeply concerned of the high levels of unemployment. Having said that, it is also important that we drill down a little bit and look at the figures in more detail.

If we look at the year on year in employment figures of the latest funds they will tell us that there were
358 000 jobs that were created during the last year but that there 696 000 new entrants into the labour force. What this means is that we are growing jobs but at a rate and pace that is too little and the growth is too flaccid in order to be able to absorb the increasing labour force.

It is worth drilling down even a little more because if you look at the provincial breakdown you will see that in the quarter two to quarter three there was job growth in six provinces and there was job contraction in three. One of the three provinces where there were job losses was the Western Cape which suggests that the correlation

between the DA governing and job creation which the hon member spoke of is simple not true.

Let me just comment on the statement by the hon Singh and to say, like you Chair I am indeed a victim personally of that. Two days ago where there was a debate I was participating in the NCOP on the unlawful deductions by credit providers. I think that the issue is broader than the one he is talking about. The issue is also that low income people are having debit orders deducted for debts even though they are regulations in place that say that it cannot be more than 25% of your salary. There are all sorts of other schemes and scams that are in place.

We indicated that the National Credit Regulator, NCR, is taking steps within its area of jurisdiction but on some of these other matters I said I undertook and I repeat it here that we will engage with the Minister of Finance about the role of the market conduct regulator can play to try to tighten up on illegal deductions that have been taken from people’s accounts. What happens is sometimes is well when the transaction is reserved, they charge you for that as well. That should not happen.


(Ministerial Responses)


Chair, there is this matter which is referred to the Minister of Finance about the commission by hon Mente. I think she is right and I generally agree with her but the commission should be given a chance to do its work and then we look at what outcomes it presents to the nation. It is then that we will be able to critic it.

What hon Mabaso mentioned about the co-ops is very important because we have got more than 17 000, almost
20 000 youngsters in the National Rural Youth Service Corps, Narsec. In fact today, 870 are graduating at the 3 SAI Military Base in Kimberley. I should have been there today. These are young people from rural areas whom we

have created a company for them and a co-operative for them. They are going to register that into a co-operative bank and we have budgeted for them an amount of
R1 million for this year.

It is the same with women who have already established their own company and their headquarters in Utrecht.
These are rural people and we are doing that.


Mama uKhawula siyavuma, injalo kwaye siyibonile le nto yokuqhathwa kwabantu abadala. Abantu baya kubo bebaqhatha bathathe imali yabo besithi liza kukhawuleza ibango labo. Aba bantu abasebenzeli thina kwaye le nto kudala isenzeka, abanye siyababamba sibase ezinkundleni zamatyala ukuze bagwetye. Nalena into siyayiphanda kuba uBheki Mbili uthethile nakoomabonakude elumkisa abantu ngale nkohlakalo. Sicela amaLungu ePalamente ukuba ancedise abantu.


It is no use for Members of Parliament to complain when they have the power to assist people.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, may I address you in terms of Rule 132 please? We have Ministers here so that they can account to Member’s Statements. Now Minister Nkwinti spoke about every single Member’s Statement except the one that was raised about his own department. Is there a reason for that or is he not wanting to account to this House for corruption in his department or is he putting his head in the sand to avoid being accountable?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms MG Boroto): Hon Steenhuisen, you know very well that I cannot respond to that.


Nk M S KHAWULA: Ngiyabonga kuNgqongqoshe [Minister] kodwa angiyizwa lendaba yokuthi, umasipala waseThekwini ubavumela kanjani laba bantu bazokhuthuza [rob] abantu bakhokhe imali khona na, ewukeshi [cash] kungekho ngisho irisidi? [receipt]

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Ngiyabonga ma, ngicela ukuthi, uNgqongqoshe uzokukhulumisa. Ngiyabonga ma. Hayi! Angikathinti lutho, ungathi ngicishile mina.


(Ministerial Response)


Chairperson, I raised to the statement against violence against women and children by the hon Malgas. One of the great suffragist is quoted as saying that there has never been a successful society because at its very source the fountain of nurturing is poisoned by violence and sexism. This is really the effect of violence against women and children. It robs us of a peaceful future. I really want us to agree wholeheartedly that this is a scourge of our society as a whole and that the solution to this poison cannot be found in a criminal justice system alone. It is a whole of societal problem and requires a whole of society approach.

We cannot, all of us, regardless of our ideological backgrounds be in this House if we do not a single ambition and that is to create a future society at peace with itself and let us start with violence against women and children. Just in regard to hon Singh, I do agree

with both him and Minister Davies in regard to the call that there should be more accountability and responsibility for unauthorised debits against bank accounts. As the Department of Home Affairs we often found that many of us are also guilty of not protecting our personal information sufficiently. We often share our ID numbers when it comes to loyalty programmes in return for small discounts at retailers and so forth, being not very aware of the fact that the information that we are sharing is worth much more than the 5% or 10% that we are going to get as a discount. [Time expired.]

MR BA RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, I am rising on Rule 132(5): The Chief Whip of the Opposition said that the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform does not want to be accountable. When you look at Rule 132(5) it is very clear that he can only respond up to two minutes for a particular statement. So, he must be given another chance.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms MG Boroto): Hon member, I have ruled on that one and it has long past.


(Ministerial Response)

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Chair, I just want to agree with the hon members with regard to the Panayiotou’s case that indeed in the value chain of criminal justice system, the prosecution together with the investigators work properly and single minded. There are many of such instances where justice is served and we want to congratulate and salute the efforts of our law enforcement agencies to ensure that people like these are successfully prosecuted and brought to book.

Between ourselves, the South African Police Services together with the Ministry of Justice and Correctional Service we are undertaking a mission where we address concerns of our communities to strengthen the criminal justice value chain by convening a joint interaction between the police and prosecutors together with the National Director of Public Prosecutions, NDPP, to strengthen successful prosecution in the republic.

We have implemented our Six- point plan on violence against women. If you go to our police stations throughout the country you will see that there is a clear response from our police stations in terms of the implementation of the Six-point plan. It stipulates that no woman must be returned from the police station and that all victims who come to report the crime of violence and abuse in our police stations must be taken as genuine. We created an environment within our police stations for victim-friendly rooms so that we are able to deal with the matter adequately. Thank you very much.


Ms H H MALGAS: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the ANC that at the next sitting of the House:

The House debates the development of strict road safety measures to lessen road carnage especially during holiday seasons.

I thank you.

Mr D J STUBBE: I hereby move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance that at the next sitting of the House:

The House debates the Department of Defence and Military Veterans health care system which undermines the health of our military veterans.

Thank you.

Mr Z R XALISA: I hereby move on behalf of the EFF that at the next sitting of the House:

The House debates the paradise papers leaks. This is the exposure of the world rich business people, heads of states and politicians secret ways of making huge wealth through tax abuse.

Ms C Q MADLOPHA: I move on behalf of the African National Congress that in the next sitting of the House:

The House debates ways to create more reliable and affordable public transport system and better co- ordination between various modes of transport.

I thank you.

Mr M HLENGWA: I move on behalf of Inkatha Freedom Party that in the next sitting of the House:

The House debates the recent Report by the Auditor- General that wasteful and irregular expenditure of public funds rose by 55% for the 2016/17 financial year.

Thank you.

Mr S C MNCWABE: I move on behalf of the NFP that in the next sitting of the House:

This House debates the treatment of senior citizens in home affairs offices whenever they visit these offices to apply for various documentations.


Nkul X MABASA: Hi ku yimela vandla ra ANC ndzi susumeta leswaku eka ntshamo lowu landzelaka wa Yindlu:

Yindlu yi njhekanjhekisana hi “Incentives and programmes” ta ku tshuneta mitirho na vuvekisi emalokixini yo tala lama ya nga ekusuhi na madoroba.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: I hereby move on behalf of the United Democratic Movement that in the next sitting of the House:

The House debates the role that the private sector can and must play in trying to employ and build the capacity of graduates in our country as well as fund programmes that directly and positively impact on the current education system.

Mr R K PURDON: I move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance that at the next sitting of the House:

This House debates South Africa’s commitment and transition to a lower carbon economy.

Mr T RAWULA: I move on behalf of the EFF that at the next sitting of the House:

The House debates the increase in the deaths of mineworkers throughout the country. This is in light of the Report by the Chamber of Mines reported on Monday this week; that the total of 76 mineworkers have been killed in 2017 thus far, compared to 23 killed in 2016.

Ms P E ADAMS: I move on behalf of ANC that in the next sitting of the House:

That the House debates create incentives that encourage a culture of individual saving for risks and loss of income due to old age, illness, injury or loss of work for workers in both the formal and informal sectors.

Thank you.

Mr D V MNGUNI: I move on behalf of ANC that in the next sitting of the House:

The House debates the necessity for the private sector to open their businesses to the youth for internships and apprentices in line with the Youth Employment Accord signed a few years ago.

Mr P J MNGUNI: I move on behalf of the ANC that at the next sitting of the House:

The House debates strengthening South Africa’s postgraduate training in research and innovation as a means to improve the country’s global competitiveness.

Thank you.

Mr L J BASSON: I move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance that at the next sitting:

The House –

debates the environmental and health disaster due to the spillage of 4 million litres of raw sewage per day from the Grobblersdal Town flowing directly into the Olifants River, while the Sekhukhune District Municipality is unmoved by this since December 2016, and

The need of an urgent debate on the balance of the 84% of the 927 sewer plants that is also spilling sewer in our rivers.

Mr A F MADELLA: I move on behalf of ANC that in the next sitting of the House:

The House debates sustaining campaigns against racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia.

Thank you very much.

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 17:49.