Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 09 Mar 2017


No summary available.


09 MARCH 2017

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The Council met at 14:00.

The House Chairperson: Committees, Oversight, Co-operative
Government and Intergovernmental Relations took the Chair and
requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or


Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, Just before we start, I‘m a bit worried,
hon Mampuru who has got a traditional weapon with her here and I‘m
quite worried about it. She already threatened me when I walked in.


Mr G MICHALAKIS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the
next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:

09 MARCH 2017

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That the Council debates the accountability of the executive
branch of government to this House.

Mr J W W JULIUS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the
next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the Council debates the constitutional obligation of Cabinet
and all Ministers to answer oral questions in Parliament as a
means to be held accountable against the back drop of President
Zuma‘s statement that Ministers should not answer questions when
asked to do so.

Mr E MAKUE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next
sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the Council debates the collusion of 17 banks including three
of South Africa‘s big banks; observes that the competition
commission has been investigating a case of price-fixing and
market allocation into trading of foreign currency pairs involving
the rand since April 2015, and has now referred the case to the
tribunal for prosecution; realises that the commission found that
from at least 2007 the respondents had a general agreement to
collude on prices for bids office and bid office spreads for the
sport trades in relation to currency trading involving the U$
dollar and the South African rand currency.

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Mr C F B SMIT: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the
next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the Council —


notes that according to the latest statistics released in a
situational analysis of the ANC governed Mogalakoena Local
Municipalities access to pipe water has decreased from 72 922
house holds in 2011 to only 56 082 households in 2016;


declares that this is an absolute disgrace and the violation
of the constitutional right of the residents of Mogalakoena
especially the poor in the respective rural villages who have
to dig for water in the banks of rivers alongside animals;


acknowledges that this is another slap in the face of our
lost generation, the almost 6 million unemployed youth of
South Africa;


debates the state of access to residential water, and the
poor management of current water crisis by the government,
which led to dry taps across rural communities in our

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Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on
the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the

That the Council, debates government‘s failure to improve the
lives of our young South Africans, our lost generation, who do not
have employment, education or training.

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next
sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the Council —


notes that the South African government has revoked its
intent to withdraw from the Roman Statue of International
Crime Court, ICC;


regrets that the decision comes after the Gauteng High Court
rules that the initial process to withdraw from the ICC was
unconstitutional and invalid;


acknowledges that membership to the ICC signals the country‘s
commitment to human rights and protect citizens from leaders
who become enemies of their people;

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welcomes this decision by the SA government who now have the
opportunity to sit back and rethink the wisdom of the late
Nelson Mandela that our foreign policy should be based on
human rights as stipulated in our Constitution; and


calls for the South African government to recommit human
right based foreign policy as per our Constitution.

Mr F ESSACK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next
sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the Council —


notes that the desperation within the eMalahleni Local
Municipality in Mpumalanga, continues to sink further and
further into a dire and looming disaster crisis;


realises that as reported in the media at a meeting attended
by the Minister of Co-Operative Affairs and Traditional
Affairs ,Cogta, Des van Rooyen, Premier D D Mabuza said,
―using equitable share allocations was out of the question
since the equitable share was used to deliver service to the
people and not to clear rolling debt‖;


admits that R1 billion to Eskom remains unpaid whilst the
mayor of eMalahleni Local Municipality, Ms L Ntshalintshali

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and municipal manager Theo van Vuuren are resorted to
desperate measures to find temporary quick fix-solutions such
as disposing of municipal land without up to date valuations;


regrets that Emalahleni has had six repayment agreements with
Eskom but it has never manage to uphold a single one due to
its dire financial position, the worse effects are felt by the
people of Emalahleni who still face electricity and water
interruptions, purely due to the municipality‘s failure to
deliver; and


requests the Select Committee on Cogta to investigate this and
make urgent recommendations to the NCOP on the state of
Emalahleni Municipality.

Ms T WANA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next
sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the Council —


debates the possible regulation of the exorbitant fees
charged by the private health care centre;


queries that health care is a very important human right that
must be defended all the time and cannot be left solemnly in
the hands of the private sector; and

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resolves that we must also defend the rights of the
previously disadvantaged to receive a high quality health
care services just like their rich counterparts.



(Draft Resolution)

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Hon Chair, on behalf of the DA I hereby
submit a motion without notice:

That this Council -

(1) conveys its deepest sympathy on the loss of our activist,
community leader and devoted councillor, Cynthia Klassen, from
Delft in the City of Cape Town;

(2) notes that Cynthia suffered the last six years from cancer;

(3) further notes that her dedication and commitment to her work
will always be remembered as having a positive impact in our
people‘s lives; and

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(4) conveys sincere condolences to her family and may her soul
rest in peace.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chair, on behalf of the DA I hereby wish to move
a motion without notice:

That the Council -


congratulates Springbok player, Siya Kolisi, on being
appointed the Captain of the Stormers Super Rugby Team,
becoming the first black South African to captain a Super
Rugby Team;


notes that he led the team in Newlands on Saturday, 25
February 2017, in his first appearance in the new role, in a
classic North-South derby against the Bulls; and


finally notes that Kolisi not only led his team to a 37-24
victory, but also scored a try in the 50th minute.

09 MARCH 2017

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Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr W F FABER: Hon Chairperson, just on a point of order, we
understand that heckling is allowed in the House, but I just want to
know if it is parliamentary for a member to come and sit in the
House with a golf shirt on. Thank you, Chairperson.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, you do not disturb
because hon Hattingh was on the floor and when you stood up I
thought you were disturbing. Anyway, we have agreed with that
motion. Order, members!


(Draft Resolution)

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: Hon Chair, I move on behalf of the ANC without

That the Council -


notes and congratulates former President both of the ANC and
the Republic of South Africa on his appointment and
inauguration as the new Chancellor of the University of South
Africa on 27 February 2017;

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also notes that President Mbeki replaces Judge Bernard
Ngoepe, who served as the Chancellor of University of South
Africa, Unisa, for 15 years;


further notes that his appointment is befitting as he is an
outstanding African intellectual giant and the most
recognisable 21st century proponent of the African
Renaissance who is highly regarded internationally, and would
give impetus to the institution to be a transformed African
University and realise the African Union Agenda 2063;


takes pride in the Unisa community for believing in President
Mbeki‘s leadership, and there is no doubt that he will as
always, discharge his responsibilities conscientiously with
utmost diligence; and


wishes him strength and success in the execution of his new

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr W F FABER: Hon Chairperson, you did not tell me, yet, if on my
point of order if it is parliamentary for a member like ...
[Interjections.] ... Is it parliamentary?

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay, let me repeat my
ruling. Hon Faber, you know that as the National Council of
Provinces we do have our own rules that are governing us, and even
now we are in the process of finalising the amendments. Therefore,
if there is anything that you are against you have an opportunity to
get to that process. Therefore, now there is nothing that is
unparliamentary that is happening. Hon Mokwele!


(Draft Resolution)

Ms T J MOKWELE: Hon Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF and move
without notice:

That the House -


notes that Commissar Papiki Babuile the provincial secretary
of the EFF in the North West province has been released from


further notes that Commissar Babuile was wrongfully accused
of murder of the late Mr Oupa Chika, may his soul rest in
peace, who was then the ANC regional secretary in Dr Kenneth

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also notes that Commissar Papiki is a well respected person
within his community of Klerksdorp, her father and her loving
husband to his wife Mpho Babuile;


also notes that he spent almost two and half years behind
bars for a crime he did not commit, his reputation and
integrity was compromised by this incidence;


also notes that Commissar Papiki, fighter Lesole and Happy
were sentenced both 15 years to life imprisonment;


the EFF therefore appeals to Supra Mahumapelo and Chika‘s
wife to come out and tell the people of North West who
exactly killed Oupa and why was he killed, was it political
or personal;


notes that the leadership of EFF would like to take this
opportunity to thank all fighters and leadership of the
province for believing in those fighters and commissars; and


finally notes that most of all would like to thank the
commander in chief for continuously leading and supporting
those families.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is there any objection to the

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): In light of the objection the
motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now
become notice of a motion.

Motion not agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby wish to move without
notice on behalf of the DA:

That the House -

(1) expresses a serious concern about the multimillion rand
airport heist that took place on 7 March 2017, at the O R
Tambo International Airport; and

(2) further notes that this House request the Minister of Public
Enterprises and the Commissioner of SA Police Service to
appear before the relevant select committee to account to how
it was possible for this criminal to get access to the

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airport, disguised as members of the police using a marked
police vehicle.

Thank you, Chairperson.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is there any objection to the


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): In light of the objection the
motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now
become notice of a motion.

Motion not agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr D L XIMBI: Hon Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC I hereby move a
motion without notice:

That the Council -

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(1) notes with deep concern that 25 people were left homeless
after a fire destroyed 10 informal houses in Vryground on
Monday afternoon;

(2) further notes that the cause of the fire is not known at this

(3) appreciates the efforts of the fire fighters that brought the
fire under control, however the root cause of the fire must be
investigated; and

(4) calls upon the relevant authorities to give the necessary
support to the victims.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr M CHETTY: Hon Chair, on behalf of the DA I hereby move without

That the Council -

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(1) notes that the Democratic Alliance in KwaZulu-Natal condemns
in the strongest possible terms the murder and alleged
assassination of Richmond Municipal Manager, Sibusiso Sithole,
may his soul rest in peace, earlier this week;

(2) states that it was no secret that Mr Sithole was doing his
best to fight corruption and clamp down on wasteful
expenditure in the municipality;

(3) further notes that Mr Sithole also supported the objection to
increasing the number of full time councillors in Richmond who
would have been paid R800 000 per year excluding benefits
which ultimately would have bankrupted the municipality;

(4) acknowledges that due to his tough stance on corruption and
maladministration, Mr Sithole was forced to seek employment
elsewhere and was due to take over as municipal manager at
Umgeni Municipality on 13 March 2017; and

(5) calls on the KwaZulu-Natal member of the executive council,
MEC, for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs,
Nomusa Dube-Ncube, and the Community Safety MEC, Mxolisi
Kaunda to urgently visit the municipality and get to the
bottom of this case and ensure that Mr Sithole‘s killers are
brought to book, at the very least these latest

killings must

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be included in the investigations of the commission into
KwaZulu-Natal ever growing political killings; and

(6) offers our heartfelt condolences to Mr Sithole‘s family during
this painful time, our thoughts are with the Sithole family
and our deepest sympathy goes to them.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution


(Draft Resolution)

Man B T MATHEVULA: Mutshamaxitulu, hi ku yimela vandla ra EFF ndzi
yima ndzi susumeta:

Leswaku Huvo -

(1) yi lemuka leswaku Ndzawulo ya Dyondzo ya le Swikolweni
eLimpopo yi tsan‘wa swikolo eswifundzenintsongo swo fana na
Mopani, Vhembe, Capricorn, Sekhukhune na Waterberg;

(2) yi tlhela yi lemuka leswaku vadyondzi va swikolo leswi
landzelaka va manyanile swinene etitlilasini: Nghonyama High
School, Ukuthula Primary School, Phadi Primary School na
Govani Primary School;

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(3) yi tlhela yi lemuka leswaku miako ya swikolo leswi boxiweke
laha henhla yi hlakarile swinene, kutani vadyondzi a va nga
swi koti ku kuma dyondzo hi ku olova eka swona;

(4) yi tlhela yi lemuka leswaku vana va ti-MEC va dyondza
eswikolweni swa valungu; na leswaku

(5) tanihi EFF, hi rhamba mfumo lowu rhangeriwaka hi ANC leswaku
wu pasisa milawu ya leswaku vana va van‘watipolitiki va fanele
va dyondza eka swikolo swa mfumo.
(Translation of Xitsonga draft resolution follows.)

[Ms B T MATHEVULA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the
next sitting of the House, I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House -

(1) takes note that the Department of Basic Education in Limpopo
neglects schools

in districts such as Mopani, Vhembe,

Capricorn, Sekhukhune and Waterberg;

(2) also note that learners in the following schools are
overcrowded in classes, viz. Nghonyama High School, Ukuthula
Primary School, Phadi Primary School and Govani Primary

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(3) also note that school buildings of the above-mentioned schools
are dilapidated, thus the learners are unable to get quality

(4) also note that the MECs‘ children attend white schools; and

(5) that as the EFF, we call upon the ANC-led government to pass a
legislation that politicians‘ children should attend public

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is there any objection to the


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): In light of the objection the
motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now
become notice of a motion.

Motion not agreed to.


(Draft Resolution)

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Mr F ESSACK: House Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I move without

That the Council —


notes that the DA will approach the SA Police Service, SAPS,
and the Hawks for an investigation into the Mpumalanga Health
MEC Gillion Mashego for violating the provisions of the
Public Finance Management Act, Act 1 of 1999;


also notes that MEC Mashego did not launch an investigation
into the irregular expenditure of R1,9 billion that was
incurred during the 2014-15 financial year;


further notes that the former Head of Department,
Dr A M Morake, went on to incur a further R1,9 billion in
irregular expenditure in the 2015-16 financial year, before
he was replaced by the current head of department,
Dr S Mohangi;


acknowledges that government officials are not being held
accountable for their actions and continuously escape the arm
of the law; and


further acknowledges that money meant for the people must be
spent on the people.

09 MARCH 2017

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The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is there any objection to the
motion being put? [Interjection.] In light of the objection, the
motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now
become a notice of a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: House Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC I move
without notice:

That this House —

(1) notes the recent development with the signing of the national
minimum wage agreement by the Congress of South African Trade
Union, Cosatu, the biggest labour federation in this country;

(2) also notes that this event marks a giant leap forwards towards
the operationalisation of the long-awaited national minimum
wage in South Africa;

(3) believes that the signing of this agreement has sent a clear
message by Cosatu of distancing itself from the anti-worker
posture adopted by some political parties in this House,
including the DA of hon Faber;

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(4) congratulates the leadership of Cosatu and its affiliates for
putting national interests of the workers above narrow
ideological and political considerations.

The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is there any objection to the
motion being put? [Interjection.] In light of the objection, the
motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now
become a notice of a motion.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr J W W JULIUS: House Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I move
without notice:

That the Council —

(1) notes that the current state of affairs in the ANC run
government paints a bleak picture of the future for South

(2) also notes that governance under the ANC has hit an all time
low, illustrated by the 350% salary hike received by the CEO
of the Passenger Rail Agency of SA, Prasa; the SABC‘s power
play; the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, crisis; the

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collapse of the SA Post Office; Eskom and its alleged
unnecessary load shedding; state capture and the Guptas;
domineering CEOs at state-owned enterprises, SOEs; the
practice of suspensions without pay for years within the
public sector, the deaths of mentally ill patients at Life
Esidimeni; policy uncertainty of the ANC; jobs for cadres;
high unemployment; slow economic growth and endemic

(3) further notes that the only way to secure a better future is a
change in government; and

(4) acknowledges that the DA proves that where we took over
governance we root out corruption and deliver better services;

(5) further acknowledges that these are some of the reasons voters
abandoned the ANC in 2016 local government elections; and

(6) expects that these will be the reasons voters will vote
against the ANC in the 2019 national elections.

The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is there any objection to the
motion being put? [Interjection.] In light of the objection, the
motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now
become a notice of a motion.

09 MARCH 2017

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(Draft Resolution)

Mr E M MLAMBO: House Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC I move
without notice:

That the Council —

(1) notes with sadness the death of the ANC struggle veteran and
former Robben Island prisoner, Monde Mkunqwana, who died of
heart complications at an East London private hospital on
Tuesday, 21 February at the age of 68;

(2) also notes that, at the time of his death, he was serving on
the ANC‘s National Integrity Committee responsible for
monitoring the moral conduct of party members;

(3) further notes that Mr Mkunqwana is a descendent of Makhanda
kaNxele, a Xhosa warrior who led an attack against the British
in Grahamstown;

(4) acknowledges that he was also imprisoned as well in 1963 for
an alleged assassination attempt on the then Transkei
Paramount Chief Kaiser Matanzima; and

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(5) conveys its deepest condolences to his family, relatives and
his organisation, the ANC.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Draft Resolution)

Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: House Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I move
without notice:

That the Council —

(1) notes that in December 2016 there was a case of a 12-year-old
girl who was allegedly held as a sex slave by a 37-year-old

(2) also notes that the alleged perpetrator was charged with human
trafficking and kidnapping;

(3) further notes that the girl had been kept as a sex slave from
September 2016 until December 2016 when the case was opened;

(4) acknowledges that in December 2016, girls as young as 14 were
found working as prostitutes;

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(5) stresses that every child has the constitutional right to be
protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse or degradation;

(6) resolves to call upon the Minister of Justice and Correctional
Services to take necessary measures to ensure that the Sexual
Offences Register is updated and to provide a report to the
relevant select committee upon completion thereof.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Draft Resolution)

Mr G MICHALAKIS: House Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I move
without notice:

That the Council —

(1) notes that communities of Masilonyana Local Municipality in
the Free State have recently again been without water for an
extended period of time;

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(2) also notes that this problem could have been prevented and
that the main reason for this state of affairs is
disintegrating infrastructure and a serious financial crisis;

(3) further notes that I have taken this matter up on numerous
occasions over the past two years with the Ministry of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, but am still
awaiting a reply;

(4) acknowledges that the municipality fails to grasp the full
extent of the crisis in which these circumstances have caused
the municipality to be; and

(5) resolves to urgently request the mayor and municipal manager
to appear before the Select Committee on Co-operative
Governance and Traditional Affairs in order to provide the
Parliament with details on how they plan to solve this problem
and ensure that the people of these communities are not again
left without water for an extended period.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


(Consideration of Report of the Select Committee on Finance)

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Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Deputy Chair, I rise on a point of order and I
would like to quote Rule 22: ―The business of the Council to be
attended to at a sitting of the Council must be set out on the Order
Paper arranged by the Chief Whip of the Council.‖

I just want to draw the attention of the Council to the fact that
the order of the day, Order Number 1: the Fiscal Framework and
Revenue Proposals, was never discussed in a Whippery meeting and our
party was not consulted on this. I read this on the Order Paper when
this Order Paper came out. And that was the time that was given to
us as a party to prepare. This is a very concerning situation. Thank

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I‘m not going to be able to
make justice to the point of order you‘re raising hon Labuschagne.
But suffice to the Rule that the issue will be considered, I‘m not
subject the meeting to discuss what you‘re raising but it will be
attended to and you‘ll get proper response why it was done that way
if the Rule was not adhered to.

Not unless there‘s something different, hon Mokwele?

Ms T J MOKWELE: It‘s almost similar to what hon Labuschagne has just
said ... [Interjections.]

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Let me not suppress you ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: But can you hear me out?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I want ... [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Earlier, earlier ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry hon Mokwele ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: Can I continue?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, no, before you continue.
If it‘s almost related to what hon Labuschagne is raising I‘m saying
a due process will be attended to. I‘ll take the issue to the Chair
so that it can be addressed accordingly but I‘m saying it won‘t be
proper for me to subject the House now to discuss it, and I‘m not
saying she‘s out of order and I‘m not saying she‘s in order. But I‘m
saying it‘s going to be attended to, to see why this Rule was not
respected if the allegations are true.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Thank you Chair. Can you now hear me, my other side
of the story? Earlier this month we had multi-party meeting with the
Chairperson where we – I think it is relevant if I raise this matter

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in this House so that whatever resolutions that will be taken about
the matter be recorded as such. We had a meeting where there was a
crisis in terms of the Chief Whip of this House ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, can you take
your seat so that I can ... take your seat. Let me address it.
Anything that is related to something that is in the Order Paper and
this Rule that was not respected is going to be addressed and any
other issue – I know we do have an Acting Chief Whip, I know he will
want to say something to respond, but once I give you an opportunity
I‘ll be forced to give not only him and hon Khawula will do the same
thing, hon Gaehler will do the same thing. So, for that reason, I‘m
appealing that let‘s agree that the appropriate forum will address
adequately this issue you‘re raising. I‘m not dismissing it that‘s
why I‘m appealing that let‘s continue, it will be addressed.

Ms T J MOKWELE: I agree with you Chair but the issue that I‘m
raising, I‘m afraid that it doesn‘t fall in any structure within
Parliament. I don‘t know where is it going to be addressed and ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, let ... [Interjection.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Listen, Chair. Previously when we were discussing
this matter ... [Interjection.]

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I don‘t want to get to that,
that is why ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: But listen first and then you will make your ruling.
Because when we were discussing the matter we were told that that is
the matter of the Council. The Council needs to deal with it, so how
are you going to deal with it and when are we going to get the
response? That is my question sir, I need to know.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes, I‘m dealing with that.
I‘m saying to the House, I‘ve already welcomed even special
delegates; they are not even privy, they don‘t understand what we‘re
discussing now, they‘re here for another business. And the House
sitting now here, I‘m not dismissing your issue; I‘m saying as
somebody presiding, House Chairperson in the NCOP, I‘ll take the
issue to the Chairperson, to the leadership, and the issue will be
addressed in detail and you‘ll be afforded an opportunity to present
and the Acting Chief Whip will also have an opportunity to respond.
I was even making an example of other parties that might want to
have an opportunity to raise whatever.

Let‘s get to the issue as raised by secretary. Let me invite hon De

Mr C J DE BEER: House Chair, the key theme in Budget 2017 is
transformation for inclusive growth. The Minister said:

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Our growth challenge is intertwined with our transformation
imperative. We need to transform in order to grow; we need to grow
in order to transform. Without transformation, growth will
reinforce inequality; without growth, transformation will be
distorted by patronage.

Stronger and more inclusive growth is needed. The country should
concentrate on transforming the pattern of asset ownership and
production, promoting competition and deconcentrating markets. The
reality is that 95% of wealth in South Africa is owned by 10% of the
people. This has to change.

Presentations were made by the Parliamentary Budget Office and
Financial and Fiscal Commission. We also engaged in public hearings
where 10 stakeholders made presentations. I turn to the
observations. The committee notes that the differences amongst
stakeholders who made submissions on the Budget are wider than is
usually the case and believes that it may reflect an understandable
polarisation in South African society, given the current economic
and political climate. Whilst some of the differences may be
inevitable, National Treasury and the committee, Parliament in
general, as well as other relevant structures should seek to do more
to engage more effectively with a cross-section of stakeholders to
secure at least a minimum degree of national consensus on the
country‘s goals in terms of economic growth, job creation, and

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We note National Treasury‘s responses to the committee‘s 2017 fiscal
framework report to Parliament and require National Treasury to deal
further with the recommendations in that report at its next meeting
when we are briefed. The majority in the committee welcomes
government‘s commitment to radical economic transformation which it
understands to be, as defined by the President in his state of the
nation address, as—

... fundamental change in the structure, systems, institutions and
patterns of ownership, management and control of the economy in
favour of all South Africans, especially the poor, the majority of
whom are African and female.

The Budget has to be viewed in this context.

We welcome the fact that the Budget has continued to protect the
provision of social services, has provided further resources for the
higher education sector, and has ensured that needy students would
pay no fee increases. The committee notes the Budget‘s continuation
of the fiscal consolidation path set out in the October 2016 Medium
Term Budget Policy Statement. However, National Treasury‘s 201718 growth forecast appears to be more optimistic than those of the
SA Reserve Bank, the International Monetary Fund, and the World

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The committee welcomes the proposal to lower the spending ceiling
further over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period. We also
note that that the debt-to-GDP ratio sits at above 50% and has been
projected to stabilise at 48,2% but only in 2020-21. This is
contrary to the previous projection of 46,2% in 2019. As stated in
the committee‘s 8 November 2016 revised fiscal framework report, the
committee needs to consider what might be a reasonable debt level,
given the country‘s economic growth and development goals.

The committee is deeply concerned about the decline in private
sector investment. Investment growth was 2,6% in 2015, compared to
26% in 2006, and this contributed to an increase in the number of
unemployed by 587 000. Government investment has replaced private
investment in conditions of declining government revenues.

The committee notes the decreasing revenue from corporate income tax
as a percentage of total tax revenue over the last years,
representing 17% currently. The committee is concerned about the
largest revenue underperformance in eight years, projected at about
R30,4 billion for 2016-17. We note the standard considerations that
the revenue shortfall could be explained by lower growth than
forecasted, lower wage increases that led to lower income tax
collected, and reduced imports that led to lower import duty

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There has been a significant change in the tax buoyancy ratio from
1,47 to 0,86. Perhaps the Deputy Minister could explain that to us
in his reply. The revenue shortfall and uncharacteristic tax
buoyancy may have been due, in part, to the calculated delays in
processing VAT refunds for the 2015-16 year in order to claim

Some stakeholders support a fuel levy in order to raise additional
revenue for fiscal consolidation. National Treasury should take
cognisance of the regressive impact that an increase in the fuel
levy will have on the poor and working class who spend the highest
percentage of their monthly income on transport.

The committee welcomes the proposed National Treasury improvements
of tax administration and tax collection aimed at clarifying the
powers of the Minister to make regulations prescribing the duties
for those who administer the Value-Added Tax Act and Income Tax Act
and regulations governing the reporting of information to ensure tax
administration and tax collection of personal income tax, corporate
income tax, withholding tax, and VAT.

There are 29 recommendations, and I will not address every one. The
committee requires that National Treasury provide a more
comprehensive response than given already to key views of the
stakeholders that participated in the hearings at its March
quarterly briefing to the committees. The committee broadly agrees

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with National Treasury‘s approach to the interrelationship between
growth and transformation as part of radical economic
transformation, as set out in the Minister‘s Budget Speech and
Budget documents.

However, there seems to be a lack of understanding of or agreement
with the National Treasury approach to radical economic
transformation by important role players in government, the state,
and civil society. We strongly recommend that National Treasury
engage with the relevant role players on this approach. It is also
recommended that National Treasury play a more active role in
contributing to reducing the wide differences between stakeholders.
We are aware that National Treasury makes a significant contribution
in this regard, and the responsibility is not that of Treasury alone
but of all three spheres of government, legislatures, and other
state organs, but recommend that Treasury seek to do more.

We repeat the call made in previous reports for government as a
whole to work with business, labour, and civil society to ensure
greater economic growth. Treasury should, together with other
government departments and organs of state, do more to induce
business to invest. So should we, in our constituencies, when we
interact with that sector.

The committee notes that even though corporate income tax has been
reduced as a percentage of overall taxes, the private sector is not

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investing enough in the South African economy. If business continues
to abstain from significantly investing in the economy, the
committee recommends that National Treasury consider reviewing its
reluctance to increase corporate income tax.

Treasury should consider the views of stakeholders expressed in
public hearings that it needs to explore alternative ways of
implementing fiscal policy, such as reviewing the relevance of the
inflation-targeting framework, including whether the blunt
instrument currently used – interest rates – is the best alternative
to achieve the objective of monetary policy and support economic

The committee requires Treasury to report on progress on the
possible merger between SAA and SA Express and proposals of further
funding of SAA at our next meeting when we engage with Treasury.

Based on the observations, National Treasury and Sars must provide a
more comprehensive explanation for the R30,4 billion revenue
shortfall for this financial year and, importantly, indicate what is
being done to address this. This process should be taken further in
the briefings that we will have with National Treasury.

Given the polarised views on the issue of possible VAT increases,
the committee urges the Minister to consult widely on any decision
to increase VAT in the future and, if VAT is to be increased, to opt

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for a model that would protect the poor and the low-income earners
more. We recommend that Treasury consider reviewing the basket of
consumer goods that is VAT zero rated to be more relevant and
appropriately targeted to cushion the poorer people. Poor people
also need to be educated on zero-rated goods. It is our job when we
do our work in our constituencies. National Treasury should explore
the possibilities and efficiencies of higher VAT on luxury goods.

We recommend that Treasury move swiftly to introduce the legislative
amendments to the tax laws to improve the administration,
collection, and reporting of information on personal income tax,
corporate income tax, withholding tax, and VAT.

The committee once again expresses its concerns on the unproductive
relationship between the Minister of Finance and the Sars
Commissioner and recommends that the Leader of Government Business
and/or the President attend to this matter expeditiously. The
committee recommends that the Sars Commissioner report fully to the
Minister, as required in terms of the law, norms, and established
practices and that the Minister oversees Sars‘ work in terms of the
same criteria. This matter has become more urgent in view of the low
growth rates, need for more revenue, and shortfalls in tax revenue
projected for the 2016-17 financial.

In conclusion, if a group of lions work together as a team, it can
bring down a buffalo. It is something to see. We can draw

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inspiration from Inkosi Albert Luthuli, the honourable comrade, who

I personally believe that here in South Africa, with all our
diversities of colour and race, we will show the world a new
pattern for democracy ... there is a challenge to us in South
Africa to set a new example for the world. Let us not side-step
that task.

I believe we can do it. The DA reserved its position on this report.
The committee supports the Fiscal Framework Revenue Proposal 2017.
Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr F ESSACK: Hon Chairperson, hon members, colleagues, hon Deputy
Minister in the House and fellow South Africans, it is great to be
here and explain the other side of the coin. I will go slowly so we
can adapt and cast this first paragraph because it is a mouthful.
The fiscal framework, as mandated by section 77 of the Constitution
and the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act,
outlines government‘s revenue spending and borrowing projections
over the medium-term. It forecasts that revenue of R1,66 trillion
which is about 30,1% of the gross domestic product, GDP, that we
will attain revenue of the income of R1,66 trillion and we will have
an expenditure of R1,81 trillion which is about 32,7% of the GDP and
that our country‘s economy will be obstructed, I repeat and that our
country‘s economy will be obstructed by a Budget deficit of some

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R145,8 billion which is about minus 2,6% of the GDP by the 2019-20
financial year.

Our net loan debt, is projected then to reach R2,67 trillion which
is 48,1% of the GDP in 2019-20 which is only three years away. That
debt is the equivalent of a debt of R47 000 per person in South
Africa, just think about this, that debt equivalent of a debt of
R47 000 per person in South Africa. These are realistic figures
which come out of the Budget; they have not been thumbsucked.
As a country we are witnessing how excessive debt results in debt
service costs, now projected to reach some R197,3 billion in 2019-20
financial year. Thus in three years‘ time we will spend more money
on debt service costs in this country than we will be spending on
health which is projected on R170,8 billion, Defence, police and
Justice at R190,03 billion, higher education of course at
R68,95 billion or social protection of some R164,93 billion in this
year. So, I will try and simplify all of that.

According to the main Budget of 2017 the net loan debt is only going
to stabilise at 48,2% of the GDP in 2020-21 financial year. Thus,
the DA has proposed that government considers implementing a debtceiling in South Africa.

Our economic growth is projected at 1,3% for 2017, up from 0,3% in
2016. We will thus now see a moderate recovery, but this still
remains insufficient to reduce the dire unemployment crisis that we

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are currently experiencing in this country. And due to lower than
expected revenue collection based on the stagnant economic growth
and poor tax administration, the Minister has now had to announce
tax proposals to raise an additional R28 billion in the 2017-18
financial year.

Hon Deputy Minister, it would be far easier and more prudent to
raise this amount by selling some nonstrategic assets as we have
discussed, to raise the shortfall in revenues. The former Minister,
began this process and we welcomed his decision to sell government
stake in Vodacom at that time, which then raised some R25,4 billion
in revenue in the 2015-16 financial year.

Colleagues and fellow South Africans out there, if government did
the same with Telkom, another nonstrategic asset, then we could
raise about R14,7 billion, instead of now forcing the lower income
earners of this country to fork out even more money because sadly of
a greedy and irresponsible ANC government in power today.

Nevertheless let me go on further to explain, and I will take it
easy, because I have some time. You need to kind of digest this for
the immediate reference. Thus colleagues, the DA proposes that
government considers selling nonstrategic assets to raise revenue
that could for example now be ring-fenced to fund this much needed
infrastructure expenditure that we so desperately need to roll out
in this country.

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So, we welcome the R151 billion that will be spent in this financial
year on social grants and R77,5 billion that will be spent on higher
education. Yes, of course we welcome that. However, it is concerning
that irregular expenditure - well I must repeat this very carefully
and slowly so you digest this - however, it is concerning that
irregular expenditure has increased exponentially to some
R46 billion my fellow South Africans, in 2015-16 financial year.

We need to take cognisance of this. Whilst the Minister of Mineral
Resources, our man, Mosebenzi Zwane now goes out to purchase a new
Mercedes Benz E400 at the cost of R1,35 million something like five
days before the Minister of Finance announces the Budget - some food
for thought - in totally violation of cost containment measures
implemented by the National Treasury. The Minister of Finance
contains spending, include an expenditure ceiling, implement cost
containment measures, procurement reform and performance and
expenditure reviews. But this is something that we speak about all
the time, year-on-year and how many of us are really taking
cognisance of these serious measures.

So, I will go on further hon Chairperson that we need to implement a
Comprehensive Spending Review, requiring the National Treasury,
together with the national departments, that is provinces,
municipalities and of course state-owned entities, to review the
composition of spending in this country, the efficiency of spending
and the future spending priorities of this country with a review of

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reprioritising expenditure in the Medium-Term Budget between 2017-18
and 2019-20 financial years and if you recall the mind-boggling
figures of the ceiling then obviously this has to be now urgently

Thus, the DA proposes that government considers implementing a
Comprehensive Spending Review which has proved successful in
countries such as Australia, Canada and of course the United

Now further Deputy Minister, it is always great to have you in this
House, the DA proposes that Parliament establishes an ad hoc
multiparty committee to provide scrutiny and oversight over the
implementation of the structural reforms necessary to boost economic
growth and create the much needed jobs in South Africa.

Further, hon Deputy Minister, I would like to applaud you for your
courage and integrity in standing up against that great grant Gupta
family. [Applause.] You confirmed hon Deputy Minister that the
family did indeed offer you the top Treasury post. Hon President
Jacob Zuma fired Minister Nhlanhla Nene in December the previous
year, alongside would what have been a cosy retirement of some
R600 000.

Hon Deputy Minister, it seems as if now that you have turned down
this money, the floodgates for reapplications for your job and your

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current position have now opened up - both Mr Sifiso Buthelezi and
Mr Brian Molefe seem to be aspirant Deputy Ministers of Finance.

However, hon Deputy Minister, should you get to your office and find
that an aspirant candidate is suddenly occupying your seat or your
office, you know you are always welcomed to give the information to
the DA as to why that happened. [Applause.] Hon colleagues and my
fellow South Africans, it is without doubt that the DA does not
support this Bill. Colleagues, I thank you for the opportunity.

Mr M M CHABANGU: House Chair, South Africa‘s fiscal framework and
revenue proposals are inherently incapable and will never ever be
able to resolve the challenges of poverty, unemployment, inequality,
crime, the ailing economy and an incapable state.

The revenue base is eroding for one or the other reason. The revenue
base that existed 10 to 15 years ago is aggressively relocating.
Steinhoff has moved its main listing to Frankfurt. Remgro has moved
to the British Virgin Islands. Billiton has moved to London. AngloAmerican Corporation also moved their primary listing to London. Old
Mutual was one of the first companies to move their primary listing
in 1999. Other companies that have moved their primary listing
include Dimension Data.

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It is apparent that they are only doing it for aggressive tax
avoidance purposes. This is evidenced by the year-on-year revenue
growth that has decreased from 19% in the early 2000s compared to an
average of 10% over the last 10 years.

The EFF welcomes the increase in the dividend withholding tax rate
from 15% to 20%, and we are of the view that it must be increased to
well more than 40%.

The same goes for Corporate Income Tax that has remained marginal;
it must also increase to well over 50%.

Now, the issue we want to speak to – and which the fiscal framework
did not speak to – is black economic ownership.

Blackstone once said, and I quote:

Legislation alone cannot create relations or change attitudes, but
it can set clear standards of accepted behaviour, and provide
redress for those who have suffered at the hands of others. If law
can play a repressive role by sanctioning racial segregation and
discrimination as it has done in Nazi Germany, the American South,
Rhodesia and South Africa, it can operate with equal force in the
opposite direction by declaring that equality of opportunity,
regardless of race or colour, is to be pursued as a major social

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objective. It is a statement of public policy by Parliament
intended to influence public opinion

It is high time that we legislate black economic ownership. These
are the three areas that we need to legislate. Firstly, we must
legislate black inclusion in the economy at a minimum of 50%. This
is a minimum because black people make up more than 80% of the total
population. Secondly, the majority of business licences issued –
such as banking licences, mining licences, insurance licences and
other licences – must be given to black companies. Lastly, 50% of
government procurement must be from companies that are black owned.

This kind of black economic ownership must not be like the failed
black economic empowerment, BEE, that only benefitted the few
politically connected. This kind of black economic ownership must
include employee share ownership schemes and co-operative share
ownership schemes so as to ensure maximum inclusion of the majority
of black people in the economy — including you, my friend at the
back, there!

This Parliament must pass a black economic ownership Act, not
empowerment. Thank you.

Mr S J MOHAI: House Chair, hon members and distinguished special
delegates, Deputy Minister, fellow comrades, the presentation of
this fiscal framework coincides with critical and defining moments

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in the history of our country and the evolution of constitutional
democracy which, amongst others, include the celebration of the
100th year of one of the greatest giants of our revolution, Comrade
Oliver Tambo, the 20th anniversary of the Constitution of the
Republic of South Africa, and the NCOP as the second of our
democratic Parliament.

This imposes an immense duty on us collectively and individually to
live true to the defining legacy of this titan of our revolution,
namely Oliver Tambo.

We look back on our past with a great sense of pride, and towards
our future with confidence, inspired by the fact that the values
that OR lived by and died for – namely integrity, honour and
selfless service to our people – are the cornerstones of South
Africa‘s constitutional dispensation.

In his Budget Speech of 2017, the hon Minister of Finance outlined
the core elements of the domestic macroeconomic outlook within which
our fiscal policy framework is located. Among others, he highlighted
uneven income growth, the high concentration of wealth in the hands
of a few, the fact that 35% of the labour force is unemployed, and
that over half of the children in Grade 5 cannot read adequately.
This domestic macroeconomic outlook is not isolated from the
evolving global macroeconomic outlook, which is equally

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characterised by fundamental shifts, accompanied by deepening levels
of unemployment, poverty and inequality.

As a developing country, South Africa is faced with massive and
growing unemployment poverty and inequality, coupled with a deep
structural legacy of underdevelopment.

Hon Deputy Minister, you will surely agree that this necessitates a
conscious choice on our part to strike a balance between consumption
and investment spending in the productive sectors of the economy.
This constitutes a core strategic imperative for building a
democratic developmental state that intervenes in the economy in
favour of the poor, the vulnerable and the working class.

As we do this, we should be guided by the ANC‘s macroeconomic policy
that strives for macroeconomic balances to support
industrialisation, job creation, long-term stability and sustainable

Among the critical policy priorities of the 2017 fiscal policy
framework is the containment of the budget deficit and slowing pace
of debt accumulation to maintain spending programmes and promote
confidence in South Africa‘s economy.

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While the country‘s current debt ratio stands at about 50%, this
has, however, been projected to stabilise at around 40% over the
2017 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.

This, together with the decline in revenue collection – which is
reported to be at a value of R30 billion – should inspire us to
further explore innovative ways of expanding our revenue base.

The Minister has adopted the right approach in his tax proposals as
highlighted in the Budget Speech. If we are to deal with
inequalities – and we are one of the most unequal societies in the
world – then top income accumulators must contribute to the
redistributive nature of the tax system. Social solidarity of our
country is critical if we are to transfer wealth to those who are
less well off.

The Budget is also about growing the revenue base. Depending on
6 million taxpayers to carry the needs of revenue is not
sustainable. Growing a tax base requires structural changes to the
economy. We need to state that there is no wealth tax, as some are
trying to claim. Tax measures of the wealthy are already there in
the form of transfer tax, property tax and dividend taxation.

The new 45% tax on those earning over R1,5 million per annum will
bring in a further R4,4 billion.

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The low levels of corporate tax as part of our revenue base continue
to raise legitimate concerns within public policy discourse. It
should, however, be pointed out that, as legitimate as this concern
is, the practice is not unique to South Africa, but pervasive among
developing countries.

At the heart of this strategic posture is the need to incentivise
greater investment by domestic and global business in productive
sectors of the economy.

While the proposed revenue and tax proposals should be accepted, we
should equally support the call by the Minister for the SA Revenue
Service, Sars, to remain a robust and efficient tax collection
agency. This should include strengthening the collaboration between
Sars and departments that are critical to combating crimes such as
tax avoidance and evasion.

These developments are unfolding within the context of a decline in
private sector investment, which has fallen to 2,6% in 2015 from 26%
in 2006. The assertion by the Minister of Finance is instructive in
this regard, and I quote:

Our growth challenge is intertwined with out transformation
imperatives. We need to transform in order to grow; we need to
grow in order to transform. Without transformation, growth will

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reinforce inequality. Without growth, transformation will be
distorted by patronage.

This is a very important dialectic: We grow in order to transform,
and transform in order to grow.

This calls for a robust engagement with the private sector to ensure
meaningful investment in our economy. This is linked to the
imperative for social partners within the National Economic
Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, to find common ground in
leveraging the growth and development of our economy in a more
targeted way, in line with the development agenda outlined in the
National Development Plan, NDP.

Surely one of the supreme tests against which the success of the
Budget will be measured is how it articulates the strategic
imperatives of radical socioeconomic transformation in the current
epoch. As the President reminded in his state of the nation address,
South Africa needs to do something drastic in order to overhaul its
current economic structure which does not support the equitable
distribution of opportunities across society.

The proposed spending on industrial development economic
infrastructure and small business support constitutes critical
pathways towards radical economic transformation.

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Allow me to point out that, however noble policy intentions are, and
even if we had resources in abundance at our disposal, without
leadership to mobilise strategic partnerships with business and
other critical sectors of our society, the strategic task of
building a democratic developmental state will never yield any
results. International best practice reveals that small, medium and
micro-sized enterprises, SMMEs, have great potential for economic
growth and capital formation. In his speech, again, the Minister of
Finance outlined the radical measures that are needed to ensure
transformation for inclusive growth. Critical to this task is the
elimination of the triple challenges of unemployment, poverty and

To conclude, greater investment in infrastructure development is
critical for economic development and growth, while economic
development and growth are critical drivers of job creation and
skills development. There is no doubt that this Budget is more
focused in terms of expenditure on infrastructure. The challenge
however, Deputy Minister, lies in our ability to deliver this
infrastructure within a specified quality schedule and cost

Let me assure South Africans that their trust in the ANC should
remain formidable, as it is the only force capable of a policy
trajectory of radical socioeconomic transformation. We lead South

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Africa along a developmental path of inclusive growth and structural
transformation of the economy.

We therefore welcome this Budget as part of the critical building
blocks for fundamental transformation. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M KHAWULA: Hon House Chair and hon Deputy Minister, the Minister
of Finance this year presented the Budget under very trying times
and circumstances inside and outside the country, and inside and
outside government. However, the hon Minister tried to present a
very pragmatic approach to the situation. He alerted us to the
country‘s not so promising economic growth which is expected not to
exceed 1,3% in 2017. He alerted us to the country‘s growing debt
which stands at 50% of the country‘s GDP. He further warned us that
if this is not properly attended to, it will impact negatively on
the future generations of this country.

The fiscal framework before us proposes to give meaning and effect
to the call for radical social and economic transformation agenda.
This should include issues like attention to accelerated economic
growth. In the words of the Minister of Finance, there can be no
economic transformation without economic growth; and there can be no
economic growth without economic transformation. Therefore, the
country has a task of balancing the two accordingly. Economic and
social transformation should also not be abused to give effect to

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favouritism, nepotism and partisanship in the allocation of

The IFP calls for a balance in dealing with the competing priorities
of the country. This call is for putting the needs before wants.
Government‘s approach of putting wants before needs will only serve
to exacerbate further the socioeconomic disorder and further retard
economic growth. The country‘s important tools to fiscal checks and
balances including the legislative role of oversight to government‘s
spending must be utilised appropriately. Efforts to combat transfer
mispricing and to strengthen mechanisms which protect our tax base
implemented by the country‘s finance family under the leadership of
Treasury are commended. The country needs to continue on a path to
revive investor confidence and boost finance moral so that credit
rating downgrades which remained a threat for most parts of 2016 are
avoided. This entails the fight against corruption which needs to be
intensified. This includes the fight against fraud,
maladministration, fruitless and wasteful expenditure.

The IFP reiterates its call for the establishment of a special
corruption court that will deal specifically with transgressions of
the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, Municipal Finance
Management Act, MFMA, and other Treasury legislation transgressions
in both the public and private sector. The IFP remains concerned
that the fights between and amongst the country‘s strategic agencies

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will never serve any good for the country. The same goes for the
finance family agencies of our country. I thank you, Chair.

Mr L B GAEHLER: House Chair, the UDM supports the 2017 Fiscal
Framework and the Revenue Proposal and the Report of the Standing
Committee on Finance. We appreciate that the Minister has always
tried his best, notwithstanding the difficult circumstances
occasioned by the bold call from the President for a budget that
responds to the radical socioeconomic transformation path as adopted
by government. This was a very difficult expectation given the hard
fact of a government which is wrestling with an unprecedented
national debt challenge post the dawn of democracy.

Consequently, and with respect to the land question, the Budget
failed to create hope for a speedy transfer of land to its rightful
owners. This was further exacerbated after the ruling party
subsequently objected to the possibility of expropriation of land
without compensation and or with compensation only for the top
structure improvements.

Uyandiva phofu ukuba ndithini? Niphulaphule? [Do you hear what I‘m
saying? Are you listening?]

Although the Minister had difficulty in manoeuvring for a radical
budget, he has however confirmed that our monies as South Africans
are in good hands. That is what all good citizens of this country at

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least want, in particular during such difficult time when the
economy is struggling to grow. People are jobless, poverty is on the
rise and individual debts are the order of the day. This therefore
brings an urgent challenge to the Minister, his colleagues in the
executive, the industry, civil society and citizens in general, to
ensure that our economy grows and the ratio between the revenue base
and the debt is reduced.

The austerity measures that were announced are welcome. However,
government must implement these without compromising on the delivery
of basic services to the poorest of the poor. Taking advantage of,
amongst others, corporate income tax, government, working with
industry should consider financial awareness campaigns at schools
and communities in general. When society has an economy that is not
growing and citizens are heavily indebted, then that creates a
deeper crisis and possible collapse of the entire economy.

Lastly, the UDM still believes that it is possible to provide feefree higher education and training in particular for the poor, and
that this has not been provided for. We, however, welcome the steps
taken to improve the chances of our children achieving degrees
without crippling debt. We also welcome the call by the Minister
that 30% of huge projects would go to the emerging sector. However,
I think the devil is in the details of how this will be done. We
suggest that instead of leaving these Small, Medium and Micro
Enterprises, SMMEs, to the cruel huge businesses, the government

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must divide the contractors. If you have a big project, divide it so
that these SMMEs contract directly to government.

Okanye baza kubulawa. Baza kutyiwa zingcuka. Sekela Mphathiswa,
ncedani abantu bakuni bafake iziniki-maxabiso kuni okanye ... [Or
they will suffer. They will die. Deputy Minister, please ask the
government to award tenders to the small businesses or ...]

... the big business is going to swallow them. You will never have
proper businesses because they will be destroyed.

Umhlaba mawubuyele ebantwini bawo. Bangawuhlawula abasemaqhuzwini,
kodwa makubuyiselwe umhlaba ebantwini bawo. Enkosi, musani ukuba
ngamagwala makwedini. [Kwahlekwa.] [The land must be transferred to
its rightful owners. The wealthy people can manage to buy, but the
land must be transferred to its owners. Thank you; don‘t be cowards.

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: Hon House Chairperson, Deputy Minister of
Finance, special delegates and Chairperson of the finance committee,
thank you for the opportunity that you have given me to come and
speak today.

Members of this august House and guests in the gallery I stand
before you this afternoon not as a messiah who would bring a
solution to the economic ... [Interjections.]

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order members!

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: ... who presupposes that I can bring a solution
to the economic crisis facing South Africa and the world. I shall
never and we will never claim to have solutions for the economic
crisis that is facing the world at the moment. But as the ANC, we
have good policies that seek to address the imbalances and
injustices that were created by the then government that sought to
limit certain privileges to those who were privileged at that point.

Fellow compatriots, South Africans, I proudly stand before you
representing a view crafted in 1955 by our fore fathers – a vision
and dream for South Africa. It was not drafted yesterday nor when
the DA was born but was drafted in 1955.

The people‘s budget that was presented before you South African
population, citizens of this country, the Minister, amongst other
things, stated that wealth in South Africa is owned by 10% of the
people – 10%! Anybody who rejects this budget would want this
situation to perpetuate and to remain as it is; that 10% of the
people in this country should remain with the wealth of this country
while the majority suffer and in particular black people.

That is what the ANC is trying to address and redress to make sure
that the majority of the people in this country enjoy these
benefits. [Applause.]

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It is on those basis that the President of the Republic of South
Africa ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Motlashuping, sorry. Hon

Mr M M CHABANGU: Can I ask a question? [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, order members. Hon
Motlashuping, are you ready to take a question?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He is not ready to take a
question. Take your seat hon Chabangu. Continue hon Motlashuping.

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: I will later deal with the radical economic
transformation but for now I must just hint on the points that were
given by the Minister.

The Minister stated that in order to realise the vision of the
Constitution - the document that we celebrated last Friday and is
regarded as the best in the world and that opened a path to
inclusive growth and development - the 2017 budget will play a
central role in transforming the country‘s economic landscape as it

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seeks to redistribute and direct scarce resources towards
transformation and growth.

According to the Minister, the 2017 budget also aims to mobilise
private and public capital investments to assist in modernising and
diversifying the economy. South Africa must concentrate on
transforming the patterns of asset ownership and production, promote
competition and deconcentrate markets.

It is encouraging to note that the South African economic slowdown
appears to have bottomed out. The National Treasury expects the
economy to grow at 1,3% in 2017 because the exchange rate
depreciation has boosted competitiveness, severe drought conditions
have eased, commodity prices have strengthened, electricity supply
has stabilised and labour relations have improved.

In this regard, government as a whole must be adequately managed. As
one of the measures to transform the economy, a 30% aside, in terms
of the new preferential procurement regulations, should be increased
over time and much stronger penalties for companies involved in
fronting and other forms of transgressions of these regulations
should be implemented.

During the first three quarters of 2016, investment in fixed capital
fell by 3,9% - the first decline since the recession. The main
driver was investment by private business which fell by 5,9%.

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Reversing this contraction requires renewed efforts to strengthen
business and consumer confidence.

I am obliged by my conscience to come quickly to this issue and
address issues that were addressed my learned fellow member from the
DA – you can‘t be my fellow boss. The issue of land ownership is
very critical as the President has stated. Land ownership in South
Africa is very critical and the most important aspect of the land is
that South Africa and South Africans, particularly black people in
South Africa, were never workers but tillers of their own land; they
had cows, sheep, land and everything. They depended on themselves
for survival; they never depended on anybody. So, it is critical and
we owe it to the South African population that we restore the land
back to its rightful owners. [Applause.]

It is very disturbing that hon Essak comes to this podium and says
R47 000 is owed by each and every citizen. That is his own
calculation and I do not know how scientific it is or where he gets
it from and that I am included in that 47 000.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Motlashuping?

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: I do not remember, and I must represent the
South African population.

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Motlashuping, sorry. Hon
Essack, why are you standing?

Mr F ESSACK: Obviously House Chairperson, I would like to see or
hear if my learned colleague would please take a simple question
from me?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Motlashuping, are you
ready to take a question?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He is not ready to take a
question, take your seat. Continue hon Motlashuping.

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: The matter here, which is very critical, is
that if South Africans owe R47 000, in which period is it
calculated? Was it when I was born because I never participated in
the economy of this country?

How is the 47 000 calculated? From

which point to which point is it calculated if it is then
scientifically calculated?

He talks about poor tax collection. My recollection of facts is that
South African Revenue Services is the best run and it has received
the best audits. It is only hon Essack, through his eye, that he

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sees poor tax collection which is not seen by anybody.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hey! Hon Essack! Order

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: We cannot come here and speak about the
Minister buying a car for so and so much. Prior to 1994, we never
knew the amount that was given to Ministers and whoever was in
government and the value of the cars that they drove. What is
important in this government is that we are transparent, we tell the
public because this is the tax payers‘ money.

Over and above that, hon Essack does not tell the South African
public that Minister Msebenzi has gone out of the ministerial
handbook and done something very illegal. He only mentions figures
to the South African population and does not mention if it was
within the law and there is no law that there is no law has been

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Motlashuping, I‘m afraid
your time has expired.

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: We support the budget. [Applause.]

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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chair of the NCOP, Deputy Chair of
the NCOP, members of the NCOP, representatives from all provinces,
guests, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. I sometimes feel that
some of us increasingly should begin to take the heat out of debates
on fiscal policy and try to face the real challenges we are
confronted with as a country. Most of the stuff that we said in the
Budget is almost related to the debates globally because as we
travel to different forums we actually realise that everybody is
grappling with the same issues.

At the centre of the Budget that the Minister introduced as he
explained quite succinctly, is the challenge of low growth. Low
growth in South Africa and globally has become the new normal. If we
think that we will go back to those times when we had a high growth,
I think we should think very hard. Growth is a real problem. Rising
unemployment and rising inequality is also another problem that
everybody is grappling with and in South Africa we are grappling
with it also. We must say that they are both factors that are local
and domestic that relate to the very structure of our economy. That
is why the Minister and most of our analysis turn to talk about over
concentration in the economy. Some of the factors are historical as
they come from the apartheid past and therefore certain sections of
the population are in such situations because of that very history.
They are faced with particular conditions and circumstances. These
are issues that I think as a nation we should begin to really
depoliticise them in the sense of narrow political-party interests

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and use populism to explain and confront them in a more objective
way in looking at them so that we can actually get to the bottom of
what is needed for the country.

The second point I would want to make is that I have been reading
the recent analysis by economics. It is very clear that our economy
is beginning to improve. The latest report I saw suggests that we
are actually gradually moving in a more positive direction in terms
of growing the economy. Part of it I think is driven by the
increasing commodity prices. Being a commodity-based economy,
commodity prices have a huge impact on the growth of our economy.

Another element of it is, of course, improved labour relations. If
you look at the number of strikes in the last 18 months we have
major strides in improving the labour relations environment in the
country. The other element relates to electricity supply. The
consistency of our electricity supply has also had impact on growth
in a very positive rate. The exchange rate, equally, has an
important impact. Of course there is a natural factor also, drought.
Draught has also eased. It has had also an impact on the levels of
growth and it shows the growth prospects for the country.

We must also contend the fact that there are still huge risks that
we face. Some of them are domestic and many of them relate to
probably the levels of certainty – policy certainty in our country.
That is where we need to be more upfront all of us and honest about

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the fact that we need to create a more consistent and more stronger
policy environment that creates certainty because without certainty
there will be no investment, without investment there will be no
growth in our economy. That‘s an area that all of us must begin to
deal with.

There are also huge potential that we might have external shocks in
the global economy. We don‘t know where the Trump factor is going
and what will be the impact of Trump on our domestic economy. We
don‘t know how the Brexit, for instance, will impact our economy.
There are also a host of other issues that are happening globally
that are likely to have impact on our economy.

Given these circumstances, we also need to guard against something
else which also impact on certainty, that is populism. When times
are tough we normally hide with slogans and populism. Populism is
good because populists only identify the problem. They can neither
tell you how to solve it nor participate in solving it. It is
important that we guard against populism. I am very objective to say
that populism is not only within the opposition, but it is also
within the ruling party sometimes. We also sometimes become
populists in the way we approach these things. We need to be very
formal and solid in our analysis of the problems that confront us.

In summary, the fiscal framework is in a sense at a core and it is
the measured path of fiscal consolidation. Fiscal consolidation is

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at the heart of the current fiscal policy. Part of it is to reduce
expenditure ceiling by R10 billion in 2017-18 and R16 billion in
2018-19. There are a number of things that are to be done to achieve

I want to come to this issue. Again, sometimes populism is
problematic. We don‘t deal with some of the challenges. If you
reduce expenditure carelessly and recklessly, as some of the
political parties sometimes tell us, you will actually undermine the
economy and service delivery and that reduce the prospects for
growth. It is always important that we have a measured approach in
the reduction of expenditure. That is what we are doing in the
Budget. We look at what is possible without damaging growth. That is
the essence of the approach we are taking in these things. I know it
is easy to stand there and say you should cut growth by this amount.
It doesn‘t work like that in real life.

Part of what we are doing is managing economy - improving economic
governance in the country. In order to do that we must be more
realistic of about what is possible. So if you take the extreme
populist stance of saying cut expenditure by X amount and therefore
don‘t temper with taxes. The reality of the matter is that, well it
does not work like that. We have to manage the expenditure ceiling
down, but as we do that we must take cognisance of the need to
protect social expenditure, infrastructure expenditure and all these
areas that we have identified.

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We are introducing tax policy measure to generate additional
R28 billion in 2017-18. Again, on the tax issue we‘ve heard all
sorts of criticisms around our tax policy and the introduction of
tax. Many people are suggesting that we should have done this and we
should have done that, we should have tempered with the value added
tax, VAT, etc. at the centre of our tax policies is ensuring that
our tax remain progressive. Progressive tax systems means that you
must ensure that those with money pay more, but your expenditure
must to ensure that it remains propoor. That is the essence of these
things. The fact that we have moved to the higher tax bracket is an
attempt to ensure that once we increase taxes we maintain the
progressivity of our tax system, but also ensure that we have
sufficient resources to distribute to the poor and the marginalised
in society. That is the essence of the logic that we are adopting
around these tings.

Again, perhaps you will never get it right perhaps in tax issues.
But all the commentators on our tax policy proposals have come to
one conclusion that we have achieved the objective of maintaining
its progressivity. People are arguing that we should have increased
VAT into our tax. The reality of the matter is that VAT is one the
tax that is retrogressive. Again, we are not saying that we are
closing on VAT, but we are just saying that when we go that route
you must understand its impact on the poor and the marginalised in

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We also have a combination of lower expenditure ceiling and higher
taxes as we have explained. The idea is to narrow the Budget deficit
as we have explained over and over again.

Central to the debate is that fiscal policy is but one thing. You
are not going to solve the problems of the country through fiscal
policy. Fiscal policy has a role and indeed we are using it as much
as we can. I was listening to Prof Hauseman recently, two days ago,
arguing that if there is any area South Africa has performed very
well it is with regard to fiscal policy. The challenge is, growing
the economy. We can temper around and do all these things that we
can do, but if we don‘t grow the economy the reality of the matter
is that we are increasingly less to distribute. Growth, as part of
the broader proposal, is a critical area of our focus moving

I want to talk a little bit about tax morality and the social
compact and the distributional consequences of the Budget because
that is probably at the core of some of the things that we are to
undertake. About two thirds of the 2017 Budget is allocated to
functions dedicated to realising constitutionally mandated social
rights. That includes education, health, social security and

There is an important part of the Budget that I hope people have
recognised. The Minister said we do need as a country a charter of

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economic rights. In different ways I think all of us seating in this
Parliament must begin to realise that we cannot continue with the
current economic model. The exclusion and inequality in our economy
is growing and is deepened and it is not sustainable. What we had as
grand agreement in 1994, is probably having a lot of stresses and
there is a need for a national conversation around a new framework
for growth and reduction of inequality in our society. That‘s
probably where the constructive debate needs to come in; where we
will probably need to take off our party caps and look at the real
issues that confront us. It requires leadership and it requires that
we take particular risks in looking at some of the challenges we are
facing. The Minister calls it working towards a charter of economic
rights. We do need to confront that. We cannot have this number of
excluded people. We cannot continuously increase expenditure on
social grants and social security without necessarily growing the
economy on the other side. I think it is an important point to me.

The third area that I would want to talk about is the issue about
expenditure itself. We have introduced the ceiling, but we ourselves
in different forums have stated the need to change the composition
of spending. The balance between consumption and investment in our
Budget remains a challenge that we must deal with. There was
somebody who talked about expenditure reviews. We have actually done
expenditure reviews and we have been doing it as a country for a
long time. I think what we have been doing has been very effective
and it is just that I would really urge members to go and read some

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of these expenditure reviews and begin to use them in the

To shift to a comprehensive expenditure reviews because Australia is
doing comprehensive expenditure reviews is not going to necessary
help us. I think let us make what we have work first. The
expenditure review system that we have adopted is working and we
need to ensure that it is used by different institutions and people
quite effectively.

The other area that we have spoken about which is critical to the
discussion, is the issue of the wage bill. Can I say the following?
We took a view that we must manage down the wage bill because it is
critically important that we manage that expenditure centre quite
well. And we have done pretty well. If you look at it most of our
provinces have reduced expenditure quite substantially. The debate
about expenditure must not cloud another debate about the wage bill
which is the debate about the quality of our Public Service productivity in our Public Service. Those are and the composition of
the Public Service. That is where I think increasing the policy
debate should be about. We need more teachers, we need more nurses,
we need more engineers and we need more technical staff in the
system. That is why in the Budget we emphasised the importance of
protecting and also broadening the critical posts in the system
because that is the explanation for failure in service delivery.

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We must reduce bureaucracy in our system. We have a lot of
bureaucracy in our system. We must confront the challenge of
reducing bureaucracy across the board. That talks to local
authority, municipalities and also in national government
departments and provincial departments. We need to really manage
wage expenditure. Provinces are doing well. We must say that our
national departments are not necessarily doing well. There are those
that are performing very well in this regard.

The other issue that we need to deal with is underspending. It is a
challenge that we need to solve. Again, underspending is linked in a
sense to capacity. It is linked to our procurement processes managing our procurement processes better. By and large most of the
delays in the delivery of infrastructure projects stems from poor
management of supply chain processes. That is a big issue that we
must deal with. Our procurement reform process is dealing with that

One of the areas that is particularly concerning is infrastructure
underspending, and is across the board - provinces, municipalities
as well as some national departments. If we do not address the
challenge clearly it will have a huge impact on the overall

We have also talked about the state-owned corporations, SOCs.
Sometimes we turn to forget when we stand on these forums and think

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that managing our SOCs better is not happening. We are very hard on
our SOCs. That is why you know what is happening in the SOCs. All of
us, government has taken a very hard line on the SOCs by improving
efficiency, improving governance, improving impact of their spent on
development. We have introduces a number of policy proposals which
were accepted by Cabinet recently. Part of it relates to how do you
use public funds to catalyse private investment in this thing.

Let me conclude with the debt issue. The comrade from the DA, I must
say these things to you. We are clear that we must manage debt, but
there is no kind or magical level to say if it is at this level it
is good. I think the approach that we have taken is that we need to
ensure that we stabilise debt and gradually push it down because we
think that if your economy is not growing you cannot replace it by
growing debt. It is a path to nowhere. I think the danger in this
debate is to say, if it is R2,2 trillion we are in trouble. We must
understand that there is no kind of major point that is to say it is
problematic or there is a magical kind of a formula around the debt.
You will find countries with huge debts. In South Africa we are
saying the levels at which our economy is growing suggests that we
need to manage debt as a country because the cost of debt is
growing. We must also ensure that we protect our credit rating.

In summary, therefore, there are two platforms in this kind of
administration overarching policy. It is a fiscal consolidation

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platform and a growth platform. Part of that includes introducing
sweeping economic reforms in the economy. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West.

AGAINST: Western Cape.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: My respects to you Chairperson, special
delegates and hon members. We took Parliament to the People to the
Eastern Cape last year. We had started the process of Taking
Parliament to the People by focussing our provincial whips and our
oversight weeks on issues of education across the country. We
focussed on education in the Eastern Cape primarily because of the
perpetual last or worst-achiever reports in terms of the matric

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We started our previsits in the Alfred Nzo district because it is
the worst performer in the Eastern Cape. Our main programme was then
held at the Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality from 14 to
18 November last year.

For the first time we actually included members of the portfolio
committee on education of the National Assembly, both in the
previsits and in the main event itself. We must also say that for
the first time we had a joint venture with the provincial
legislature. This was almost thrust upon us because we could have
chosen to go our separate ways and therefore wasted state resources;
however, it made sense for us to come together precisely because at
the time which we proposed to go to the Eastern Cape, the Eastern
Cape already had a programme of their own of Taking the Legislature
to the People. So at some point this programme was separate and at a
particular point it came together. That is why you will see that the
report of the NCOP has instances where we include the joint ...
[Inaudible.] ... of the programme with the Eastern Cape and where
the Eastern Cape report will separate because they were within their
rights and we were within our rights. However, it also worked for
us, especially financially, to have a joint programme.

We want to say that we are very grateful for the co-operation we
got, both from the legislature and from the executive of the Eastern
Cape. We must also say that we learnt a lot of lessons because this
programme worked for us in fulfilling what the Constitution demands

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of us, which is to take Parliament to the People, to listen and to
educate, but also to co-ordinate the business of government across
the spheres, and in and amongst the provinces themselves.

We learned good lessons which I‘m hoping we will take back to all
the other legislatures. We also observed bad practices which I‘m
also hoping that we as different provinces will make sure are not
repeated in our provinces. We were also able to learn — those of us
who do not come from the education sector — to listen to, amongst
the best teachers and principals, and also to identify amongst them
the worst teachers and the worst principals. As public
representatives we also had an opportunity to learn from the
practitioners themselves and sometimes heard what the children
themselves had to say.

We started by visiting early childhood development centres, ECDs,
because we believe that they are an important foundation for
education in South Africa. If these work well they help us determine
the country‘s potential and deficiencies. We think that ECDs should
also be taken more seriously than we are currently doing. It doesn‘t
matter in which province but generally if you go to ECDs they are
very, very thinly funded and resourced.

In our visits we found that most of them ... one did not have
educational toys for the children, the spaces within which the
children were kept were terrible and the numbers which were

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subsidised by the department for tuition and for food was very
limited, which meant that the facility then had to cross subsidise
the other children from the poor.

We also found that the ablution facilities at ECD level were
terrible. We were quite shocked to see some of the facilities. We
took pictures and we hope that we will never subject our children to
that gain.

We also noticed that in some instances even practitioners at ECD
level were well trained but at some facilities they were just
keeping the children busy ... were not properly trained.

We noticed that the provision of meals was fine ... was there but
the facilities to cook nutritious food for the children was also a

We went on to look at public libraries and we have to say that again
we moved from one of the worst that was dilapidated and a risk both
to the staff and to the public, and to one that was extremely well
built. What we did find to be a problem though was the quality and
quantity of the materials found at all the libraries in the Eastern
Cape. Hon members, it cannot be that the main, main, main books in a
public library are Mills and Boon. What exactly do we want to say?

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Also of concern to us was whether public libraries should be used to
replace libraries at schools, and if we agree, what portion of the
public libraries should go to students, who supervises them and who
procures? The interaction between the municipality, the province and
the national Minister on governance issues around public libraries
is also a concern that we want to look into.

We met good teachers. Across the board we have also picked up that
the Eastern Cape has an interesting high percentage of teenage boys
at schools that abuse drugs. We have also taken note of the high
rate of teenage pregnancies at schools. It took us almost all of our
previsits before we asked simple questions. How old are these kids
that are abusing drugs and who are impregnating other learners at
schools? We discovered that these are the young men who are about to
become men. So the issue of culture then begins to come into the
space of education.

We were worried about the availability of clean potable water at
schools, again at the quality of nutrition, the quality of the
schools and the quality of teachers in some instances. I‘ve already
said that in some instances we were enthralled with the excellence
that we found at the schools in the Eastern Cape.

We want to say that we were shocked at the ablution facilities but
again we want to say thank you to the Eastern Cape for responding
very positively and quickly to the request we had for temporary

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toilets. However, we will be keeping an eye as to whether permanent
clean toilets are put in with she bins and sanitary pads for the
girls at those schools.

Hon members, we are also worried about the quite glaring policy gaps
or lapses. There are schools which are meant for children with
special needs but either the national or the provincial departments
treat these schools as though these kids do not have special needs.
Therefore you have challenges ... playgrounds for children who are
in wheelchairs and ramps which are thin, old and only carry them
from where they sleep to their classroom. So we think that as
Parliament we need to work to look at this. We need to go back to
those issues.

Of course, there were other issues. People spoke to us about issues
of social development. They spoke to us about health. They spoke to
us about Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, houses. They
spoke to us about all the other things. However, I think that we
need to begin by saying that yes, we need to standardise but as we
standardise we must not kill initiative at schools. As we want to
normalise and give every child an opportunity in life we must go
back to how we impose policies on schools which do not work for
schools. For example, with regard to the complaint about the
progression of learners, without a doubt, all schools, black and
white, complained about this. If so, we need to ask, who is
responsible? When do we get consultation on the way? How far are we

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consulting communities when we rationalise schools so that as
Parliament we can better represent? Ke a leboga [Thank you],
Chairperson. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Chairperson, greetings to
our hon guests from our provinces, MECs and Members of Parliament,
our colleagues and officials that are present. Let me start my
debate by quoting Chairman Mao Tse-Tung:

The Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism has two
outstanding characteristics. One is its class nature: it openly
avows that dialectical materialism is in the service of the
proletariat. The other is its practicality: it emphasises the
dependence of theory on practice, and emphasises that theory is
based on practice and in turn serves practice.

Our strategic objective for economic development is to seize new
opportunities that support the creating of descent work. We are
reducing income inequalities in South Africa. In this regard, we
have always declared that the government has a crucial role play in
creating enabling environment that will facilitate and accelerate
social and economic development in our society.

In pursuant to our commitment, to account to the electorate and
through our history we took leaf from our Taking Parliament to the
People programme with a theme which loudly chants, Follow Up on Our

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Commitments. Indeed, we followed up n our commitments and cultivated
public trust and confidence that the people shall govern and
commitments shall be kept.

For example, a lady by the name of Zukiswa Sizani, a resident of
Sweet Waters in King William‘s Town, Buffalo City Metropolitan
Municipality, commended the current government on the delivery of
housing in that community. But on the same vein, she did highlight
the issue of misallocation to beneficiaries and raised that as an
issue for us to follow up. She further states that new governmentbuilt human settlements lacked recreational facilities such as play
parks for children and young people.

It is also true that the people were not only complementing the
government, but they had many complaints and grievances. As form of
summary, these are the few that I will touch upon: The lack of
provision of housing which cut across in some of the wards in
Buffalo City; high rate of unemployment amongst young people;
prevalence of drugs and alcohol abuse; high levels of reported
crime; insufficient staff and shortage of medication in some
clinics; general shortage of school furniture, hon Makupula;
shortage of learning-teaching material, especially textbooks; lack
of scholar transport for some learners who take long distances to
and from school; and poor roads infrastructure where there are rural

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That is about Buffalo City. If you look at the challenges that were
raised by those communities, they are more or less the same. Buffalo
City and Alfred Nzo District Municipality have a lot of rural areas.
The whole issue of transport came up. Using dilapidated buses as the
mode of transport was also an issue which we really need the
department to take note of.

These are some of those key issues raised by those people in the
Eastern Cape. As such, we debated issues effectively and in the
province. We are tasked to ensure that provincial interest is taken
into account in the national sphere of government, especially during
the budgeting period. This, therefore, implies that there continues
to be a need to improve co-operation and co-ordination. These
matters are within and across the different spheres of government,
especially on concurrent areas such as education, health and

As a progressive and caring government, now more that ever, we are
called to respond and intervene to challenges facing our communities
decisively. A call for radical economic transformation in speeches
will be meaningless if we do not appropriately reprioritise our
limited resources to make a visible impact in changing the lives of
our communities. In this regard, we must recall and internalise the
progressive words of Amilcar Cabral when he said:

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We must always bear in mind that people are not fighting for
ideas, for the things in anyone‘s head. They are fighting to win
material benefits, to live better in peace, to see the lives go
forward, to guarantee the future of their children.

The availability of representatives from all spheres of government
in the visit to Eastern Cape was very valuable as they could
directly respond to grievances of communities. For example: The
human settlements. The national government reaffirmed that the
building of new houses remain their priority, even though funds for
maintenance and repair also remain insufficient.

What was also key to note is that the demand for housing and
accommodation seem to be increasing, despite the fact that
government has provided more than 4 million houses since 1994. We
are the only country and the only organisation that delivers free
houses to communities in South Africa. [Applause.]

Buffalo City Municipality has also challenges of the so-called ‗gap
market‘, which is a limited middle class housing stock and credit
constrain of household within incomes that are above the threshold
for subsidy housing but insufficient to be able to access commercial
bank home loans. In this regard, the ANC position as per the 4th
National General Council is that there must be an expansion of the
subsidy instrument to medium income household which refer to the
household earning R3 500 to R7 000 per month.

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Also, the funding for the medium density social housing where the
state subsidy rental houses, in areas where there is a high demand
for housing, as it is the case in the area of Buffalo City. These
contradictions warrant that we must consolidate both short and long
term integration and sustain strategies for land ownership use,
spatial planning, human settlement and transport.

Pertaining to the crucial issue of addressing challenges of
unemployment of young people and skills development, provincial
government indicated and is steadfast in implementing National Youth
Service Programme and providing bursary schemes to implement the
EPWP. Furthermore, the government has developed a joint project with
Amathuba Job Portal to assist young people to find employment

Moreover, there are plans underway to skills development for primary
and secondary co-operatives. In addressing this lack of work
experience, internship programmes have been developed with the
participation of the private sector in the area of the Eastern Cape.
The government also reaffirmed that one of the service centres will
also be constructed to ensure that government services are readily
accessible to the public. In addition to initiatives, there is a ...
[Time expired.] Thank you very much Chair. [Applause.]

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Mr V MAGWEBU: Chairperson, hon members, special delegates and fellow
South Africans, Prof Jonathan Jansen, Author and former Rector and
Vice Chancellor of the University of the Free State, once said:

Desperation is an emotion I seldom feel except in relation to
education, for I believe very deeply that for most of our
children, a solid school education represents the only means
available for ending the cycle of family poverty. Skills come
later, economic growth even later. Social cohesion lies far in the
distance. What matters, is that the children complete 12 years of
schooling with the ability to read, write, reason, calculate and
express confidence for purposes of further studies, skills
training and higher education.

During our visit to the Eastern Cape, when we ‗took‘ Parliament to
the people, it became evident that there is no solid foundation for
preparing our children for the future in the Eastern Cape Province.
The early childhood development centres we visited amongst many
failures by the provincial Department of Social Development. We
discovered that the grants that are paid were not paid on time, thus
making it difficult to keep these Day Care Centres or Early
Childhood Development Centres in operation, thus compromising their
duty to nurture our children as they prepare them for schooling.

Further, we visited high schools and met with management officials
of the provincial education department. Both visits and meetings

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revealed the following failures by the provincial department: Matric
results for previous years have been going decreasing drastically
and some schools were performing below 30%. There is little support
rendered by the education department for underperforming schools
because there are resources that are not provided when they are
needed. Low Staff Morale is caused by lack of support to teachers by
the provincial department. Mud schools remain not eradicated.

Hon Chairperson, the Eastern Cape was the country‘s worst performing
province in matric results yet again in 2016. The province has
recorded the worst matric pass rate for the past five years. The
five districts that performed below 50% in the country are all in
the Eastern Cape. Last year, more than 36 000 matric pupils in the
Eastern Cape failed Grade 12 exams because of a lack of political
guidance and leadership.

These schools and these poor performances are compounded by ANC-led
government policies that are not working. The national Department of
Education introduced a progression policy in an attempt to address
the problem of drop-out rates in the system through the policy that
allows school children to proceed to the next grade.

This disingenuous policy requires that a learner not be held back in
a phase for more than 4 years even if he or she fails. This
therefore means that should learning and teaching not be of high
quality, children still proceed through the education system from as

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early as foundation phase with a learning backlog. Essentially there
is a crisis in the education system and the progression policy
exacerbate the compromise on quality by causing bottlenecks in the
last phase of the system, namely Grades 10, 11 and 12.

Similarly, we see in the Eastern Cape a bloated cohort of Grade 11s
progressed learners. These are cases where learners fail grade 11
twice but the policy progresses them to grade 12. According to the
Eastern Cape Department of Basic Education, this is the largest
Grade 12 group in the past 5 years. Therefore, the question is, can
we blame the teachers entirely for the Eastern Cape‘s poor

The answer is, No. They are not the policy-makers, but the blame
lies with the ANC government. More than 2 000 schools in the Eastern
Cape have two or three teachers each. As we are standing here, 219
schools are led by one teacher in each school. Let‘s face it! Let‘s
first give the teachers the necessary support and then probably we
can blame them.

South Africa spends R280 billion on educations. This is more than a
fifth of our national budget yet; it is not matched by results in
Eastern Cape, in particular. But I have good news. This crisis can
be salvaged. The DA has a rescue plan. Over the next year we will
focus our attention on these learners. We will stand in solidarity
in their plight, talk to them and listen to them.

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Together we will build a brand new policy platform, a rescue plan
for this lost generation. Freedom, fairness and opportunity will be
at the heart of this plan, a policy package that will put each young
person at the centre of their own development.

As I conclude, we will start with pre-school nutrition, ending when
young adults enter the labour market. We will harness the energy &
passion of the thousands of committed teachers and principals to
lead the change in turning our schools around, while shielding our
children from the destructive influence of politics and labour
unions. We will invest in training existing teachers and recruit
more teachers, particularly for maths and science. We will explore
the feasibility of bringing back teacher training colleges. This is
what the Eastern Cape needs. Enkosi Sihlalo, Ndiyabulela. Thank you.

Mr T G CHEPAPE (Limpopo): Hon House Chair, Chairperson and Members
of the NCOP, distinguished guests, thank you very much for this
opportunity to debate on the report, Taking Parliament and
Legislature to the People Programme in the Eastern Cape.

In terms of section 70(2)(b) of the Constitution of the Republic of
South Africa, the National Council of Provinces has a responsibility
to ensure participation of all provinces in its proceedings in a
manner consistent with democracy. Furthermore, section 188(1)(a) and
(b) enjoin provincial legislatures – and in this case, the Eastern
Cape Provincial Legislature – to facilitate public involvement in

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the legislative and other processes of the legislature and its
committees, to conduct its business in an open manner and to hold
its sittings, and those of its committees, in public.

It is against this background that the NCOP and the Eastern Cape
Provincial Legislature had a joint Taking Parliament and the
Legislature to the People programme. As the Limpopo province, we
also participated in this programme, and I must mention that we have
learnt a lot. As the Chairperson of the NCOP indicated, the
programme was held from 14 to 18 November 2016 under the theme,
Following up on our commitments.

The programme included site visits and public hearings. These site
visits enabled members to engage with the management of schools,
educators, learners and beneficiaries to further enrich the
understanding and appreciation of the issues that emerged from the
various educational institutions and economic development projects
that were visited. The pre-visits report highlighted the key issues
that emerged during the engagements with all the stakeholders.

In the visit to the early childhood development, ECD, centres, it
was observed that funding is a challenge. The insufficient funding
for ECD from the Department of Social Development results in many
unintended consequences by the system. These include limited space
at some day care centres, resulting in some children not being
admitted. This goes against our objective of ensuring that each and

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every learner of school-going age is at school. In some instances
where schools or ECD centres over-register learners, they are faced
with the challenge of having to share the limited resources among
themselves. There were also the issues of centres that had closed
down as they were not viable, and the community expressed
dissatisfaction with the lack of consultation during these

The insufficient funding in this area also implies that the stipends
received by the ECD practitioners are mostly insufficient and
sometimes paid late. The consequence is that some of the ECD
practitioners start becoming demotivated in an environment where
there is understaffing. Learners in this critical phase also require
adequate mental support. However, it was reported during one of the
visits that there is a general lack of professionals, such as
psychologists and career coaches, who should be assisting in this

It was also reported that there are not enough recreational
facilities. As the Chairperson has correctly indicated, there is
also a general shortage of water. This affects various activities in
the ECD centres, especially sanitation, as the ablution facilities
are also inadequate.

I must indicate that these challenges are also experienced in other
provinces, not only in the Eastern Cape. All of these provinces are

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experiencing these challenges. Perhaps the DA in the Western Cape
does not see this because they occur in the black schools, and the
DA only concentrates on the urban and white areas. Perhaps that is
their problem.

Various schools reported that there was a shortage of learnerteacher support material, particularly textbooks. In some instances,
learners are sharing textbooks. This negatively affects their
preparations, especially when they write tests and examinations.

Another key challenge that affects the quality of education in
schools is the redeployment of teachers who have been trained in
inclusive education to other schools. This, thus, disadvantages the
schools from which they are redeployed. It was also highlighted that
there is a lack of regular teacher training and development through
workshops and training sessions.

Regarding the National School Nutrition programme, it was indicated
that all schools are benefiting from this programme. However, most
of the schools complained about the budget allocation, saying it is
too low. The limited budget could result in learners receiving
inadequate portions, as the available food is shared amongst the
higher number of learners. Furthermore, the quality of food provided
by school feeding schemes is compromised.

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A further challenge, the lack of scholar transport, was highlighted
in some of the schools that we visited. Some learners travel long
distances to and from schools. Furthermore, the roads leading to
these schools are not accessible when it rains. This results in some
learners missing valuable learning time, and, as the saying goes,
time wasted is never regained.

Various schools reported the shortage of infrastructure, such as
classrooms, staff rooms and libraries for schools. These shortages
result in overcrowding, which affects learning. This challenge is
further compounded by the fact that, in some instances, the existing
school buildings are not well maintained. Many schools have also
reported that they are short of furniture, that is, school desks, as
well as ICT infrastructure, including computer laboratories. Some of
these schools do not have electrical connections. This raises the
need to explore alternative sources of energy for affected schools,
as suggested to them by the team that visited those schools.

The delegation was also concerned to discover that some schools are
operating without school governing bodies. This was a very serious
concern. This situation not only negates effective governance in
schools, it also steals precious learning and teaching time, as some
of the educators are forced to assume the roles that ought to be
filled by the parent component of the school governing body. It was
also reported that there was poor parental involvement in some
schools. This could also mean that the school work of some learners

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is not monitored by their parents at home. Hence, some of the
schools have reported that a number of learners were ill disciplined
and unruly and also involved in substance abuse.

Despite all of these challenges in the schools, it is not all doom
and gloom. There are many schools that perform well and manage to do
better academically, in spite of the challenging circumstances
within which they operate. One such school is Ulwazi High School in
Mdantsane Nu 2. This school has 13 old teaching classrooms, no
library and no computer laboratory. Furthermore, it is surrounded by
a rough community where crime is a daily activity. However, this
school, managed by a woman, continues to produce a 100%
matriculation pass rate every year. [Applause.]

We are also comforted and given hope by the fact that our caring
government is not sitting, arms folded, and doing nothing about
these challenges. Several programmes that were developed and
implemented to address these challenges were outlined by the MEC
when he addressed the gathering, even though they may not be
adequate at this stage.

We have noted that the conditional community library grants are
generally not used for library purposes by some municipalities. This
leads to various challenges. These include the lack of maintenance
of library buildings, inadequate safety and security measures at and
around some public libraries, and a shortage of library resources,

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including reading books in public libraries. In some of the
libraries, the available books are also getting lost due to the
shortage of book detector systems. It was also reported that there
is an outdated book collection system that does not serve the needs
of communities or library users. Generally, there is also the
challenge of a shortage of qualified librarians across the whole
Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality.

Following the deliberations and the engagements during the public
hearings and site visits, some solutions were suggested. I must
indicate the Limpopo province has since resolved to take this Taking
Parliament to the People as a good example. Thank you. [Time

Ms B T MATHEVULA: Chairperson, Taking Parliament to the People in
the Eastern Cape and Alfred Nzo was an eye opener to you as the
ruling party that you have abandoned the poor masses of our people.

The province is failing in providing basic needs and restoring
dignity. You fail to provide our people with toilets, water and
roads. Because of your narrow mentality and pushing the agenda of
kleptocracy, you are more than John Cena, ―You can‘t see that
something is wrong in that province.‖

About 10% of the population in Alfred Nzo do not have identity
documents but no one is saying or doing anything about this matter

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because personally, you will not benefit from assisting those

It is now 23 years into the so called democracy but our black
children are still attending mud schools without books or without a
teacher to teach them.

Chairperson, that on its own tells you that you as the ANC and the
ruling party do not care about the education of a black child. You
have occupied positions of leadership but you still take
instructions and implement the policies and processes of the
oppressors that black people must not get proper education.

Failure of government to even act on executive members that are
unable to perform like the MEC of Education in that province, will
result in failing our people.

As the EFF, we will never allow a situation where we are forced to
adopt a Report that seeks to undermine our people and not promoting
or enhancing sustainable services to our people. We will never
support a Report that seeks to undermine the integrity of our

This Report does not reflect the true challenges and frustrations
that our people are faced with.

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The worst thing that you did on the last day was to allow a
criminal, a man who violated his oath of office, a man who does not
respect the Constitution to address hon members.

As you like to impose everything, no, no, no, not this time. EFF
therefore recommends that the House reflect further and put the
entire province under administration.
The MEC of Education must be criminally charged for failing to
perform and failing hundreds and thousands of our people. Thank you,

Ms T WANA: Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson in
absentia, Chief Whip in absentia, Deputy Minister of Finance in
absentia, permanent members from different provinces, distinguished
guests and members of the media, good afternoon. Let me thank my
organisation for allowing me the opportunity of standing in this
august House and debate early childhood development. Allow me to
salute the organisation which is 105 years old and the oldest
organisation in Africa and in the world.

This programme of early childhood development was initiated by the
former ANC President, our own O R Tambo. Long live the spirit of O R
Tambo, this is your year!

Ulele nje Tambo, uyathetha. [While Tambo is no more with us, he is
still with us in spirit.]

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When O R Tambo was in Tanzania, he assisted Charlotte Maxeke by
making a crèche there. The reasoning behind that was informed by the
struggles faced by the parents in Tanzania and he wanted to protect
the children from the hardships of the apartheid system. Those
people are amongst us now. There is one thing that I like about the
ANC; we can afford to stay with the people who were oppressing us
though they did not stay with us when they were oppressing us.

I wanted to say in this House that ...

... utata wohloniphekileyo uMagwebu wayenguMphathiswa ngexesha
likarhulumente kaSebe. Ngoko ke, uqhelile ukutya amagazi abantu ...
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[...the father to the hon Magwebu was the Minister in the cabinet of
the government of Sebe. Therefore, he is used to sucking the blood
of the people ...]

... irrespective of colour. Therefore, I am not surprised when he is
debating in this House very negatively. If you can analyse him, he
is not discussing but impressing his bosses. Thank you very much.
Let me say that in 1987 – oh let me repeat it. Hon Magwebu who was
standing here, benefitted from the apartheid because his father was
amongst the Bantustan Cabinet and he is used to sucking the blood of
the poor and the have-nots. So, when he is debating here, he
impresses his masters.

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon Wana, please take
your seat! Hon Magwebu why are you standing? What is the point of
order, Sir?

Mr L V MAGWEBU: Hon House Chair, on a point of order: I do not have
a father who served in the Bantustan. It may be a family but not a
father. She must get her facts right.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Point of order taken, hon
Magwebu. Continue hon member Wana.

Ms T WANA: Thank you Chairperson. I am not talking about
insinuation; I am talking about the content. The content is that you
are coming from a family which used to exploit the blacks because
you benefitted from apartheid. Let me remind this House about the
8th Statement of the ANC by O R Tambo saying that our children and
students have been oppressed and abused from childhood because their
mothers and fathers were not allowed to stay with them in their
workplaces. Because of the apartheid system, their mothers and
fathers were given slavery names like kitchen girl and garden boy.
So, we are still living with those scars, even in the present
situation because the whites are not impressed with anything done by
the black ANC majority.

As I am saying, O R Tambo and our icon Nelson Mandela‘s spirits are
with us even though they are not with us in flesh and blood. How can

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a person wearing an overall – there was a smell

of a person in the

kitchen frying ...

... amagwinya bethuna. Uthetha into ebengekho kuyo. [... fat cakes.
He is talking about something he was not involved in.]

How hypocritical are they?

Le nto ikhoyo yale mibutho mincinci. [This tendency of the minority

Because once you wear overall, you are not going to do a clean job.
Once you wear an overall, that is an indication that, at any given
time, you cannot do any perfect job.

Njengokuba ndisitsho ukuba ... [As I was saying that ...]

... as the ANC we are protecting the poorest of the poor.

Nangoku ke Tambo mabahambe kuba bathi bayahamba. Ndiyayivuyela loo
nto yokuba besithi bayahamba. Siyavuya Madiba kuba ude wafika
wasincedisa. Ukuba bafuna ukuhamba mabahambe kuba ...
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Even now Tambo they must go because they said that they are going.
I am happy that they say they are going. We are happy Madiba because

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you arrived and helped us. If they want to go, they must go because

... they have nothing to offer to the poorest of the poor. The
second leader who implemented this early childhood development
programme was our first Minister of Education, Professor Kader
Asmal. On 12 December 2000, he put aside a budget of R195 million
and suggested that it must be catered for in the Department of
Social Development. Remember, in the ANC we analyse and put
strategies so that we can implement our programmes and policies.

During the apartheid era, there were no black children benefiting
from crèches. So, ever since 1994 my organisation, which had the
majority, was given the mandate by the people of South Africa and
managed to create crèches. For instance, in this Taking Parliament
to the People, our institution looked at education and health. We
went to the deep rural areas of Alfred Nzo District Municipality and
looked and those crèches. After that we made some preparations, as
the chairperson has alluded to, to go back on September with most of
the things being done by our government and not other people, as
people had given us a mandate.

When we were in the rural areas we found that churches and other
community centres were accommodating early childhood development
programmes from six months up to four years. Those young people were
very excited when they were graduating and going to a formal school.

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Those were good news that we heard from the people because in the
rural areas they accommodate for those mothers who are working and
also for those who are not working.

Our international icon, former President Nelson Mandela said in his
book, The Authorised Book of Quotations:

If we want to be the caring society we thought we were striving
for during our fight against the iniquities of apartheid, we must
eradicate all traces of violence against and abuse of children.

We know in this House that the programme of early childhood
development and students were close to the heart of Nelson Mandela.
Long live your spirit, you have made us proud!

In South Africa, we have got 12 650 early childhood development
centres and within this short space of time of democracy this number
is covering all the provinces. The opposition is not happy about
this because they have no policies to implement. Thank you ANC for
giving these policies because our people are always cherishing ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order! Order hon Wana,
please take your seat. Hon Mokwele, why are you on your feet?

Ms T J MOKWELE: The speaker is not talking about Taking Parliament
to the People.

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, please take
your seat. That is not a point of order.

Nks T WANA: Kaloku abantu xa sele behamba, abazinzi kuba kaloku
bayashiywa mhlawumbi zibhasi okanye izinto zokuhamba. [Kwahlekwa.]
Ngoko ke xa bengazinzanga, asinakuyinceda loo nto. (Translation of
isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Ms T WANA: When people are already leaving, they are restless
because the busses or any other mode of transport are leaving them
behind. [Laughter.] Therefore when they are restless, we cannot help

Let me say that the Eastern Cape in the Department of Social
Development has managed to make a very good budget of R231 million
for early childhood development. With regard to infrastructure, they
have put aside R10 million in terms of maintenance and renovations.
We are very proud as the Eastern Cape because we have 13 914 people
who are benefiting in the early childhood development programmes of
which 200 are disabled people.

Uyayazi ke xa sesilapha Sihlalo weNdlu, ukuba abantu abanempahla
ezibomvu abakhange bazibonakalise ubudlongodlongo babo baza
kuthunyelelwa umyalezo omfutshane ngutata wabo athi mabatwebeke.
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

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[You know that as we are here Chairperson of the House, the people
who are wearing red clothes if they did not display their violent
behaviour they are going to receive a short message from their
father who is going to tell them to misbehave.]

Therefore, there is no content. The current budget is conversing all
the things the chairperson has announced here. Let me salute the
United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund, UNICEF, for
assisting an African region in this early childhood development
programme because the wars that took place in Africa made UNICEF to
assist us and our country is among the 190 countries ... Oh no!
Thank you very much. [Time Expired.][Applause.]

Mr B D KIVEDO (Western Cape): Hon Chair, I note the presence of the
hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Modise, hon MECs, hon Members of
the NCOP and also hon members of the special delegations.

Education remains pivotal to ensuring that millions of South
Africans have a chance to escape poverty. Taking Parliament to the
People continues to present Members of Parliament with the wonderful
opportunity to engage with citizens across the country. These
initiatives are crucial to understanding issues which may be
affecting the people of South Africa so that government can find the
necessary solutions to address those respective issues.

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Our team recently visited the Eastern Cape in order to gain a better
understanding of the issues faced by the people there. The oversight
visit offered us the opportunity to assess and evaluate where the
Department of Education in the Eastern Cape was succeeding or
failing in their duties. Rather than just seeing this oversight
visit as a means of comparing the state of educational services in
the Western Cape to that of the Eastern Cape, we believe that this
was more of an opportunity for the education departments from each
province to learn from one another in order to improve the lives of
the people that we represent.

The amount of effort put into educating our youth will ultimately
determine our education outcomes. Impact studies suggest that
parents who care more about education are those who seek to ensure
that their children receive adequate education at all cost. It is
those parents who constantly spend more time ensuring that their
children are progressing well in school.

Since democratisation, I am glad that all South Africans have been
granted access to an equal educational system that looks to provide
each and every child with the opportunity to live a life that they

I am still deeply concerned that, although children have equal
access to the educational system, when the quality of education
being received throughout South Africa is assessed, massive

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discrepancies in the quality of education being offered to the
children of this country can still be found. To my disbelief, the
oversight visit to Eastern Cape presented such large discrepancies
in the quality of education being delivered to children in South
Africa. I was deeply concerned to see that, while many learners have
been granted access to education, government has failed to provide
the necessary resources needed for them to succeed in the school
environment. It is for this reason that many Eastern Cape children
flock to the Western Cape, and I welcome them with open arms.

My colleague, the hon Mokwebu, made a wonderful comparative analysis
earlier on. Let me just focus on it as a backdrop, and not as a
means to grandstand about the Western Cape‘s scenario. The latest
matric results are just one of many indicators highlighting my
concerns surrounding the quality of education children are receiving
in the Eastern Cape. The latest matric results indicate that the
Western Cape achieved a matric pass rate of 86%. This represent an
increase of 1,3% compared to the previous year. Compare this to the
Eastern Cape where the matric pass rate was 59,3%.

There are several reasons learners are achieving the results that
are seen across the two respective provinces. Firstly, these two
provinces are governed by two different political parties. The DAled Western Cape outperforms the Eastern Cape for the simple reason
that our government does not just say that it will improve the lives
of its people, it delivers on what it promised. We have the best

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practices which we believe can be implemented across all provinces.
So it has to be shared.

We believe that no person should fail to have the opportunity to
attend school because of their financial circumstances.

Lastly, it must be noted that 98,5% of the schools in our province
are either no-fee schools or schools that have been compensated and
assisted by the Western Cape Education Department in one way or
another. We have already allocated nearly up to R50 million to feepaying schools. This equates to us providing assistance to 97% of
all provincial fee-paying schools.

The efforts made by the Western Cape Education Department produced a
teacher learner ratio of 1:35. Where funding and resources limited
learners‘ access to education, the Western Cape Education Department
rolled out more than 150 mobile classes over the 2017 financial
year. These additional mobile classes are a simple, yet effective
way of dealing with the current teacher-learner ratio. The Western
Cape government has also made use of several e-learning game
changers to ensure that access to education is supported by
technologically innovative initiatives. By April 2017, a total of
1 239 schools across our province would have been connected to

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This brings us to the situation in the Eastern Cape. My heart goes
out to the children of the Eastern Cape. I am a child of the soil of
the Eastern Cape, born and bred in the Tsitsikamma and settled in
Uitenhage. So, it is my province also and I will stand for my
province. My heart goes out to the children of the Eastern Cape.
Much work needs to be done there in order to establish an
educational environment that produces future citizens that can
contribute to our beloved country.

It must be noted, that although the teacher-learner ratio in the
Eastern Cape is around 1:33, many of the schools visited are
experiencing huge challenges that do not do justice to the positive
teacher-learner ratio. General challenges experienced in the Eastern
Cape include high numbers of teenage pregnancies, a high rate of
sickness amongst learners, and a shortage of water supply to
schools, particularly schools located in rural areas.

What is really alarming is that numerous schools in the province
were experiencing burglaries and theft on a regular basis, leaving
these schools with no essential equipment and teaching aids such as
computers, etc. That is a major problem, as school governing bodies
cannot afford to appoint additional security officers.

Poorer areas do not have access to scholar transport. Continued use
of the toilet bucket system by some preschool facilities still takes
place, like Vuyani and Zingisani preschools which are located in the

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Umzimvubu Local Municipality. Many schools do not have internet
services, a lack which denies children access to the information
required to be successful in the technological age in which we live.

In conclusion, I recommend — and this is just a recommendation,
because I am not saying that I have the solutions — that the Eastern
Cape government and, in particular the relevant departments, should,
as a matter of urgency, intervene and seek ways to address these
challenges for the sake of quality learning and teaching and better
academic performance by the South African education system. Our
department is more than willing to reach out to the other provinces,
especially the Eastern Cape, to share with them our best practice
models with a view to enhancing their education practices. In the
process, we will build a strong, capable, competent and resilient
South African nation. I thank you, Chair.

Ms L X F HLONGWA-MADLALA (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Chairperson, Ministers
in our presence, Members of the NCOP, both permanent and special
delegates, receive my greetings this afternoon. We wish to start by
saluting women from all walks of life in this very important month,
as we celebrated the International Women‘s Day. It is equally our
country‘s Human Rights month and we remember the struggles of the
21st March 1960, and pay tribute to our heroes and heroines who
fought the just war so that we can have the democracy and freedom we
have today.

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The ruling party, the ANC, has proclaimed this year 2017, as the
Year of Oliver Reginald Tambo. Oliver Reginald Tambo represents the
best example of how good leaders can contribute to forging
excellence in the collectives they lead, and to raising the
movement‘s performance to a high pedestal. His incisive mind
encouraged all of us to learn and seek to understand connections
among various factors in the dynamics of the struggle. This is
equally true for government officials at the helm of various
departments, and our success rests on administrators who are
selflessly committed to serving our people beyond the call of duty,
like the great Oliver Reginald Tambo.

The NCOP‘s visit to the Eastern Cape in Buffalo City Municipality
last year during the Taking Parliament to the People programme,
painted a rather not so rosy picture about the state of affairs in
the province. However, we believe that there are a handful of
solutions we can bring to the table as KwaZulu-Natal. Hon
Chairperson, the journey of transformation is not an easy one and it
requires capable and visionary leaders such as the great OR who can
make things happen.

There were a lot of concerns raised at both the public hearings and
at sites, and we have to turn this corner by strengthening our
intergovernmental relations to ensure that services due to our
people are rendered in time. This is the strength of the KwaZuluNatal province, Madam Chair.

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In the KwaZulu-Natal Human Settlements Portfolio, we have since 2002
involved the National Home Builders Registration Council, NHBRC, to
address the challenges in the human settlements sector in order to
avoid complaints and litigations. Most of the projects from 2002 are
not as bad as they were in the past, because we now have a body that
quality assures the work we are doing in the province, and thus the
space for shoddy workmanship is reduced. The Human Settlements
Department in KwaZulu-Natal has strengthened community liaison to
deal with vulnerable groups both women and youth and adopted few
interventions to address poor quality of houses. They have appointed
reputable contractors and implementing agents, they have improved
controls on site through the introduction of a four tier system
including inter alia, municipal building inspectors, NHBRC
inspectors, departmental inspectors and structural site engineer.
Contract management capacity is also build inside the department to
monitor those who fall behind the development programme.

Madam Chair, the most disconcerting in this report is the entire
Early Childhood Development, ECD, story in the Eastern Cape and we
think as the KwaZulu-Natal, there are lessons that we can share with
you because we believe we have done fairly well in this area. The
Departments of Education, Health, Arts and Culture as well as Social
Development have joined hands in ensuring that ECDs is rolled out
adequately and without fail to its beneficiaries. One of the
important facets of the ECD basket is the role of NGOs and nonprofit

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organisations, NPOs, which are actively involved in the programme

The Department of Arts and Culture together with National Lottery,
have committed to support children with toys for fine and gross
motor skills development. During the year 2016-17, the Department of
Social Development continued to register newly established ECD‘s
centres and also registered 165 more ECD programmes. This led to an
increase in a number of children benefitting from the ECD services.
After the review of the provincial integrated ECD action plan, the
department facilitated provincial consultation of the ECD policy and
programmes, in partnership with the Department of Education,
National Development Agency and Ilifa Labantwana, and the main
reasons for these consultations Madam Chair, were to avert
challenges that were prominent in the Buffalo City Municipality

The KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Growth and Development Strategy goal
four, relates to the building of the strategic infrastructure.
During the public hearings people lamented about the poor road
infrastructure, the absence of tarred roads, poor quality
workmanship, poor road maintenance, and absence of taxi ranks as
well as sheltered bus stops in some instances. In KwaZulu-Natal, we
view road networks as strategic and catalytic tools to enhancing
economic growth, and are at the centre of the seamless movement of
goods and people.

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To demonstrate the commitment of the KwaZulu-Natal government to the
improvement of the road networks, the Department of Transport is now
increasing its internal capacity to deal with road maintenance in
particular so as to curb the expenses that come with the upgrades.
Over the years the department has worked with the people for the
people, through programmes such as the Zibambele and Vukuzakhe which
are meant to uplift the historically disadvantaged people in the
main women and youth. These two programmes are directly addressing
vegetation by the roads, whilst municipalities maintain storm water
and sewerage pipes to avoid health hazards.

Madam Chairperson, it is a well known fact that we still have large
numbers of youth unemployment in KwaZulu-Natal, but a lot of work is
being done even through Economic Development, Tourism and
Environmental Affairs, EDTEA, to support co-operatives to create
employment for our people. The province has in the past formed a
partnership with the University of Zululand to train and develop cooperatives to play a meaningful role in the mainstream economy. The
Department of Economic Development, Tourism and Environmental
Affairs has since acquired some level of expertise in developing cooperatives, and so many Departments, including Education, and Health
are now dependent on this department for skilling.

Hon Chairperson and hon members, we also noted the challenges faced
by the Department of Health and Education in the province, and of
particular importance is the Lovedale Technical and Vocational

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Education and Training, TVET, which is the pride of our nation. We
think there is a lot of work that needs to be done there to
accelerate radical economic transformation in the region. The
college‘s infrastructure is no longer in a good state and we think
it warrants the attention of the Department of Higher Education.
Equally the issues of funding which seem to cut across all our TVET
colleges and we think should be handled in a particular manner to
avoid disruptions in our colleges.

In KwaZulu-Natal, we also started the year on a bad note with many
college students threatening to go on strike, should their demands
be not met, and we must appreciate Minister Nzimande and his
department for intervening in this regard. We were also amazed by
the good work done at the artisan academy and we think those kinds
of institutions must expand and be found all over the country to
meet the needs of our economy.

The schools in the Eastern Cape are not so different with the
schools in KwaZulu-Natal, in that learners still travel long
kilometres to school, some schools are without furniture, some
schools are without ablution facilities, and even some are without
qualified teachers.

The KwaZulu-Natal Department of Education is working hard to ensure
that the Learner Transport is managed such that it benefits more
learners than what it is benefitting currently. Just last week, the

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MEC launched a ferry boat programme which benefitted about eight
schools in Nkovukeni area in Umkhanyakude and Nhlange, to assist
learners that were crossing rivers to school. We have taken a view
that we can no longer lament about the inadequate money, but we are
going to strengthen our fiscal discipline and learn to do more with

KwaZulu-Natal same as the Eastern Cape does face challenges of lack
of classrooms, libraries, laboratories, specialists rooms, security,
academic performance, shortage of teachers as well as good managers
and leaders in our schools. However, the MEC of Education in our
province has pledged to fast-track the transformation of the
schooling system, which is a programme aimed at rationalising small
schools and optimally using human resources to benefit the needy

Equally on the issue of performance, the department is busy
capacitating teachers to understand the curriculum through
programmes called Just-in-Time and Operation Bounce Back. Managers
in our schools are subjected to curriculum delivery and management

Of great importance in KwaZulu-Natal education now is to give
support to all schools to perform better, and be able to produce
responsible and productive citizenry. The department is building its

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internal capacity, again to address infrastructure issues so that we
do not always go to public works in case there are problems.

On the issues of discipline as they were raised in the Eastern Cape,
we have at the beginning of the year conducted our annual oversight
to more than 75 schools as the legislature and at the centre of all
the visits was the cry about parental involvement in the education
of their children ... We want to request the Eastern Cape to open
its doors for us and also are opening our doors for the Eastern Cape
to learn. Thank you Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr S L MALAZA (Mpumalanga): Hon House Chair, hon members of the
NCOP, it is an honour to rise and join a debate on the work of the
National Council of Provinces, a work that continues to ensure that
there is interaction with our people, in pursuit of our
constitutional obligation to engage and place our people at the
centre of development.

This year, we are celebrating the 105th anniversary of the founding
of our glorious liberation movement, the ANC. Equally, 2017 is the
year of Oliver Reginald Tambo. Had he lived, he would have been 100
years old this year. If we, as an organisation, were to account and
stand before him, we would have said, comrade President, our today
is better than yesterday. We would have said, despite the challenges
and setbacks of the moment, this organisation you left is on course,
we are soldering on, and nothing can stop us now.

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Quite a number of issues emanated from the public hearings and site
visits to Buffalo City, such as poor road infrastructure, poorly
maintained roads, an absence of taxi ranks, and a high rate of youth
unemployment. We should not lose sight of the fact the Buffalo City
Metropolitan Municipality is predominantly rural.

On the basis of the above, the municipality is characterised by
challenges which affect the majority of the previously
disadvantaged, from the mainstream of the economy to access to

Given this background, the municipality has a high unemployment rate
and that affects our young people. They are definitely not a lost
generation. They are a generation of hope and leaders of tomorrow.
It is therefore key to put effective measures in place such as local
industrialisation and local economic development programmes,
including putting systems in place to address the agricultural
economy, to ensure that the inequality gap is adequately dealt with.
It is critical for the municipality to capitalise on the predominant
economic activities and drive the transformation agenda in this

We should instil a culture of becoming producers rather than
consumers in our youth - young people who are going to be employers
rather than seeking employment.

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A number of issues were raised on health care, education and road
infrastructure, which characterise the life of the citizen and the
condition under which they live, however good stories were also
shared. A case in point is the state of the art hospital, Cecilia
Makiwane, delivered by the ANC-led government. [Applause.] It is a
well-managed institution. Lovedalle is a high-performing
agricultural college. Despite challenges, the college develops
skills in young women and young men to be farmers.

We are not mentioning these things because we intend to turn a blind
eye to the challenges, but importantly, there are success stories in
the Eastern Cape. All these things serve as a beacon of hope for our
people in that province. Our people continue to rely on the
government that is led by the ANC, despite all these challenges.

Indeed, as the African National Congress, we can boldly make this
assertion without any doubt that if all the leaders who have passed
on ask us today how we are doing; we would confirm that, indeed, our
today is better than yesterday.

Allow us to draw words of wisdom from Comrade O R Tambo who said and
I quote: ―The fight for freedom must go until it is won, until our
country is free and happy and peaceful as part of the community of
man, we cannot rest.‖ As Mpumalanga, that is the message we are
bringing, that we cannot rest until all the things raised by our
citizens in that municipality are won. We will fight with them and

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walk with them side-by-side to ensure that this ANC-led government
delivers. We have heard them; we know their concerns and we are not
turning a blind eye.

We know it to be true that this current government led by the ANC in
Buffalo City has done some tremendous work. Not all is black and
bad. There are success stories. We know for sure that they have
delivered housing, improved health care services and road
infrastructure. With them, we are soldiering on. The ANC lives, the
ANC leads. [Applause.] I thank you.

Mr C HATTINGH: Chairperson, standing here once again speaking on the
state of basic education in the Eastern Cape – as was evident during
the NCOP Taking Parliament to the People programme – feels like déjà
vu. Most of us had been there, repeatedly, in the past. However,
there is no tangible evidence that any improvements flowed from
previous engagements with the Eastern Cape education system.

Perhaps I should just pause a moment and reflect. We had the hon
Chepape here – I think it was a hit-and-run speech. He came here and
recited the findings. He came here empty handed: no solution, no
vision, no future, nothing – empty handed. It was the same with the
hon Hlongwa-Madlala from KwaZulu-Natal, which is the third worst
performing province in the country in terms of education. She came
here with the problems but no solutions. She was proudly
representing the ANC: no future, no vision, and no solutions.

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By now, most of us can actually tell what we will find at Eastern
Cape schools. It won‘t be different in KwaZulu-Natal. When we arrive
at the schools, even before we get out of the vehicles – some of us
actually did get out of the vehicles. Hon Wana didn‘t always get
out; that is why she didn‘t know what was going on. Sometimes she
slept in the vehicle. Upon arrival at a school with broken windows
and dilapidated classrooms where plastic and paper cling to broken
fences and gates, we will almost certainly find the members doing
the oversight ticking the boxes right there in the vehicle without
even getting out.

The Minister of Basic Education, Angie Motshekga, only last week
confirmed and revealed, despite it being illegal for learners at
schools not to have access to basic infrastructure such as water,
electricity and sanitation, that learners in 1 585 Eastern Cape
schools are still being exposed to pit toilets. A total of
61 schools have no toilets. Some of them still use a bucket system,
and 58 schools are without water supply.

Minister Motshekga further stated that 800 of the approximately
1 000 schools in South Africa built with wood, mud, asbestos, and
zinc are situated in the Eastern Cape. Even the SA Democratic
Teachers‘ Union, Sadtu, report hailed by our golf-playing member at
the back revealed that hundreds of pupils at 16 Eastern Cape schools
returned to unsafe school structures, as the department had failed

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to replace and renovate or, at least, safeguard these schools, as
was promised by Eastern Cape Premier Masualle last year.

Maintenance and planning appear to be an insurmountable mountain for
the Eastern Cape Department of Education. The delivery of textbooks,
including the delivery of textbooks for critical subjects like
science and mathematics, despite repeated assurances by the
department during onsite visits and briefings, still remains a major
challenge for the department.

ANC-affiliate Sadtu reported that 11,5% of textbooks were not
delivered to the schools. This was in March and was confirmed by the
Eastern Cape provincial department that made excuses by saying they
only had access to a limited number of printing companies. It is
very good news that the SA Human Rights Commission will now
investigate the nondelivery of textbooks in the Eastern Cape. I am
so happy that they have announced this.

There is a critical shortage of educators, something that was
mentioned at the podium a bit earlier. There is a critical shortage
of educators, and we have seen that in the 2016 results where the
province again found itself at the bottom – the worst performing
province. It was also found that, apart from the Alfred Nzo
district, the O R Tambo, Amathole, Joe Gqabi, and Chris Hani
districts face a critical shortage of mathematics and science
teachers. It appears that the Eastern Cape is once again ...

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Hattingh ... hon
Hattingh ...

Mr C HATTINGH: I will not take a question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Hattingh, please take
your seat. Hon Mokwele, why are you on your feet?

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I would like to ask whether the hon Hattingh
is willing to take a question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Alright. Thank you very

Ms T J MOKWELE: He was part of that government.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): No, hon Mokwele! You can‘t
do that. [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: It is because of you that we are in this mess.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Hattingh, are you ready
to ... Hon Mokwele! Are you ready to take a question from the hon

Mr C HATTINGH: Chair, I am sorry. She doesn‘t really ...

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Are you ready to take a

Mr C HATTINGH: No! She doesn‘t know what is going on here.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, he is not
willing to take a question. Continue, hon Hattingh.

Mr C HATTINGH: Literally thousands of educator positions are vacant,
whilst Sadtu stated 320 positions for principals are vacant.
[Interjections.] Scholar transport has already been mentioned here.

So, Chair, the following, unlike the ANC MECs and people from other
provinces coming here and trying to lecture us on what should not
happen there ... [Interjections.] Just explaining the problems, the
Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal will not turn around its problems if
there is no proper planning, if there is no proper delivery of
learning and teaching support material on time, if critical vacant
positions for both educators and principals, as well as for critical
subjects like mathematics and science, are not filled, and if
sufficient scholar transport is not provided.

A national intervention in the Eastern Cape infrastructure crisis in
the education system is overdue. There should be an investigation
into the root causes of the high dropout rate in Eastern Cape
schools. Taking into consideration the dropout rate, the matric

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results would look even worse now. Until this situation is
rectified, the Eastern Cape situation will continue, and thousands
of children will, for the rest of their lives, live with inferior
education thanks to the ANC. [Time expired.] [Interjections.]

Mr M MAKUPULA (Eastern Cape-MEC Education): House chairperson, hon
members and guests to this august House, good afternoon. I am
standing here to accept and appreciate the report of the NCOP visit
as led by the Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Thandi Modise.

Let me indicate upfront that, indeed, even to us as the province,
the visit of the NCOP was more of a lesson in the sense that the
jerking up of how we have been doing things was checked. A
combination of challenges that are systematic and structural; but
also people‘s problem, especially by the officials. This is rather
not to shift the blame but how the oversight ... [Interjections.]
... as well ... the combination of challenges.

Let me also say that since the visit of the NCOP, there has been
some significant work that the department has done.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon MEC, please, take your
seat, sir! Hon Smit, why are you standing?

Mr C F B SMIT: I would like to know if the hon member is willing to
take a question.

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Let me find out from him.
Hon MEC, are you ready?

Mr M MAKUPHULA (Eastern Cape): I only have 10 minutes.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): He is not ready, hon member.
Please, continue hon MEC.

Mr M MAKUPULA (Eastern Cape): The first thing to highlight is the
focus on the early childhood development, ECD. Despite the fact that
there is no national policy – it remains a draft since 2011, for the
first time in the Eastern Cape that we have professionalised 900
Grade R practitioners. We have appointed them as Foundation Phase
post level 1 educators. They are starting to get into the system
with their benefits.

Another thing to highlight on the Grade R level is that of the 4 500
primary schools, we have been able to attach a Grade R classroom to
more than 4 400 of them. 98% of our children accessing early
learning classes are actually accessing Grade R classrooms. 85% of
those that are doing Grade 1 currently have passed through a Grade R

To be specific to the visits to both Alfred Nzo and Buffalo City, I
would like to highlight that I have declared 54 747 posts to ensure
that almost all schools have adequate number of educators as

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provided by the Act. Obviously, some schools are loosing educators
every year because of the numbers that are changing. As at 6 March
2017, the reports provided by districts indicate that there are
1 603 identified additional educators. We are working on open
bulletin, which will be issued before the end of this month to
ensure that additional educators are given opportunities to schools
where their services are needed.

On special schools, especially, Mbizana, Nompumalanga and Zamokuhle
Special Schools, tenders for water and sanitation have been closed
on 24 February. Contractor award processes are underway for
completion in March 2017. We expect that contractors must be on site
beginning of April especially to all the special schools.

Sive Special School was another school that was visited. The school
is almost 100% finished; only one thing holding us is Eskom and
electricity. Eskom has confirmed that the pending electricity
connection will happen by the end of March upon completion of the
installation of the transformer by the departmental contractor.

One of the most painful things that members picked up was that a
teacher in that school, Mr Tsese, was not paid for a period of 10
months. I can stand here safely to say Mr Tsese has received all his
dues and is part of the normal system now. [Applause.]

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To move quickly as time is running out for me, let me also talk
about East London on the following schools: Sinovuyo, Alphendale,
Parkside and Vukuhambe Schools, fencing are being installed at all
these schools. I have been to Vukuhambe, fencing is completed – high
quality material fencing. A tender for the refurbishment of
Vukuhambe Special School has been approved. In fact, the contractor
will be on site in April.

Ulwazi High School, and coincidentally, Madam House Chairperson,
that‘s the school I started teaching at. That school, who‘s
principal is a lady, all the requisitioned furniture has been
delivered beginning of this month. [Applause.] In King Williams
Town, Iqonce Junior Secondary School, the one that has been
occupying a private building. We have already provided them with
four temporary classrooms, which have been delivered and are being
utilised since February.

Another point to highlight is that the question of schools sitting
on private land or land owned by church, for example, the Tsitsikama
area, towards the end of 2016, last year, the department bought land
at R1,5 million from the Morovian church where two schools are
occupying the land i.e. Amamfengu Public Primary School and Clarkson
Public School in Clarkson and Humansdorp respectively. That land is
now owned by the department and we are servicing those schools from
our land.

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Moving to Learning and Teaching Support Material, LTSM, a very
topical issue; this year, the mandate we had was to buy literature
for Grade 12 and technical books for Grade 11. Technical books cost
us R2,7 million and Grade 12 literature cost R36 million, an overall
amount of R38 million. Orders were issued out by 31 August 2016. As
we are issuing these books, which was the mandate for this year, we
picked up that schools do not retrieval policies.

We have a vicious cycle that, every year, principals and teachers
are demanding books when in actual fact the lifespan of a textbook
is more than three years. Schools aren‘t retrieving books; all they
do is go to the media and say the department has failed. I appeal to
members, before you accept a statement that says there are no books,
can you ask the principal: how many books did you retrieve from the
books of the previous years? We all know during our time that they
use to withhold a report for not bringing back a book.

We are in a democratic era; we are not withholding children‘s
reports but schools have a responsibility of retrieving books. I am
happy to indicate to you that 100% of stationary has been delivered
to schools. As at March, 98% of literature was delivered. Technical,
mathematics and science were standing at 75%. By the way, these are
small schools and are only 65 in the province. The outstanding
deliveries are being attended to and other deliveries are also being
handled directly by the LTSM co-ordinators.

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As I step off, let me indicate to my hon members, those who have
opened their arms to say, indeed, let‘s co-operate and work
together. I want to say, I am leading a department that is offering
public institutions of children of the people of Eastern Cape. This
is not my private property. To my colleague, to KwaZulu-Natal, I led
a visit to KwaZulu-Natal in 2012, by then Senzo was still an MEC.
This is where I learned how you are doing the multi-year agreement
rather than declare every year, which is disruptive. Another thing I
learned there ... [Time expired.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms T K MAMPURU: House Chairperson, let me indicate that, in her
opening remarks, the Chairperson of the institution was very clear
to indicate to the House that, as the ANC which is leading the
government, we are our own critic. Unfortunately, ...

...banabešo, Matlebjane o bolailwe ke tswala ka gore ge o le mmušo o
tšea bana o re ke ba gago, ga o tsebe gore naa ba bangwe bona ka
dikgopolong tša bona go direga eng. Ga se ka phošo ge tatagorena,
mohl Rolihlahla Nelson Madiba Mandela a ile a re, ke a mo tsopola:
―Thuto ke lerumo le maatla leo motho a ka le šomišago go fetola

Ge go be go kgonega, re be re swanetše go etela kua sehlakahlakeng
sa go tsebega bjalo ka Robben Island go ya go ithuta le go
hlaologanya taba ye ke tlilego go tsena go yona, re lebeletše
profense ya Kapa Bohlabela.

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Nkemele gannyane, Modulasetulo wa Ngwako. (Translation of Sepedi
paragraphs follows.)

[... fellow members, some of the problems we are experiencing are
self-inflicted. They are internal problems. Our former leader, hon
Rolihlahla Nelson Mandela said for a fact, and I quote: ―Education
is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.‖

If it was possible, we would take an educational tour to the
renowned Robben Island to learn and have a background understanding
on what I am to share with you about the Eastern Cape.

Wait, House Chairperson.]

For many years, black political prisoners spent a lot of time
digging both lime quarries and blue quarries as a form of torture,
brutality and punishment. The lime quarry hole was ultimately used
as a toilet, in brackets, are self-inflicted as they were caused
some of our own a relief area when nature called, and a classroom
when the need arouse, hence the quote by Tata Rolihlahla.

The NCOP visited the Eastern Cape province on 14 to 18 ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mampuru, please take
your seat.

09 MARCH 2017

PAGE: 130 of 163

Ms T J MOKWELE: Ma‘am, what have I done. I am listening to you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, speak to me.

Ms T J MOKWELE: I can‘t. Don‘t worry.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, take your seat.

Ms T J MOKWELE: O seke wa tshwenyega mama. [Don‘t worry Mam.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Take your seat, hon Mokwele.
Continue, hon Mampuru.

Ms T K MAMPURU: Let me go back to where I was. The NCOP visited the
Eastern Cape province on 14 to 18 December 2016 to undertake the
programme of Taking Parliament to the People. The NCOP executed
these activities together with the provincial legislature under the
theme ―Following Up on Our Commitments‖.

Modulasetulo wa Ngwako, thuto ke lesedi, tša yona ga di fele - ke
bokoti re a neetšana. Badudi ba Afrika-Borwa, tsebang gore pušo ye e
eteletšwego pele ke ANC ke ya lena. Moreromogolo wa yona ke go le
hlankela ka go bona maphelo a lena a fetoga letšatši ka letšatši.

Kua Kapa Bohlabela, NCOP e hlaotše mafelo a go swana le selete sa
Alfred Nzo seo se etilego pele le sa Buffalo City seo se latelago ka

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morago, feela se le swanetšego go se tseba ke gore maikemišetšo a a
swana - e lego go lekola gore melao ye e hlangwago ke efe mo
magatong a mmušo wa bosetšhaba - gona mo re lego gona Palamenteng,
la profense, le la mmasepapala.

Lekgotla la Bosetšhaba la Diprofense le lekotše tše di latelago:
Meago ya dikolo le phahlo ya dikolo, dipuku, dinamelwa tša bana ba
sekolo, phepo ya barutwana, tlhokego ya barutiši, meetse dikolong,
dintlwana tša botshwelamare, dikolokomiti, polokego dikolong, dikolo
tša digotlane le phepo ya bona, dikolo tša bana ba go se itekanele kudu monaganong, dikolo tša difoa, tša dimumu le a mangwe maemo a
bona ka go fapafapana, kopanyo ya dikolo tše dinnyane ... lenaneo le
ke le letelele; selepe gomela! Ga se leabela, ke go lepelela.
(Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[House Chairperson, education is key; it opens up doors for
opportunities. Fellow South Africans, the ANC is the ruling party
precisely committed to deliver services for the betterment of daily
lives for all.

In the Eastern Cape, the NCOP has identified Alfred Nzo and Buffalo
City regions respectively to run an oversight on the delivery of
services. The main objective is to oversee the laws that are made in
various levels of government - the national and the provincial

09 MARCH 2017
The National Council of Provinces

PAGE: 132 of 163
has conducted oversight and

identified the following: school buildings and furniture, books,
transport system to and from school, learners feeding schemes,
shortage of teachers, water supply at schools, availability of
toilets, School Governing Body,

school safety, crechѐs and feeding

schemes, schools for learners with disability – especially for the
mentally disturbed, the blind, the deaf, and other various forms of
disability, combining schools... the list is endless. We will
proceed against all odds.]

The government‘s National Development Plan 2030: Our Future – make
it work, on education states that each community should have a
school with well-educated, trained and caring teachers. The outcome
of this is the provision of quality education, skills development
and innovation.

Modulasetulo wa Ngwako, tša Kgoro ya Thuto mo Kapa Bohlabela ke
mabotse le mathakga. Tše dingwe tša dikolo tšeo di etetšwego e bile
Sekolo sa Praemari sa Cranberry. Go lekotšwe phepo ya barutwana,
sekolokomiti, phahlo ya sekolo; ebile a mangwe a maloko a
sekolokomiti a thwetšwe go ba baletadikgoro ba dikolo. Ke
kgatelopele yeo.

Senthara ya Tlhokomelo ya Ithembalethu e thomile ka bana ba masome a
mabedi ba mengwaga ya go tloga go 0-6. Lehono ge re bolela, bana ba
ke ba 152 ka moago woo o feleletšego. Go na le ofisi, bobolokelo,

09 MARCH 2017

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morale le phapoši ya digotlane tšeo di tlago pele ga Kreiti ya R. Ga
se tšeo fela, go na le serapana sa merogo - ga se re tlwaele gore
kua disenthareng tša tlhokomelo, bahlokomedi ba tšona ba tšee
matsapa a go bona gore ba a lema gore bana ba rena ba tšwele pele go
ipshina ka merogo. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[House Chairperson, there is a good story to tell in the Eastern
Cape Education Department. One of the schools which were visited is
the Cranberry Primary School. Oversight was conducted on learners
feeding schemes, the School Governing Body, school furniture.
Furthermore, some of the SGB members were appointed as school
security officers. This is a remarkable stride.

Ithembalethu Educare Centre has started the programme with 20
children from the age of zero to six. As we speak, the centre has
152 children with a fully-fledged building. It is equipped with an
office, storage room, kitchen, and Grade R classroom. Not only that,
there is also a vegetable garden. It is not often that we find
caregivers taking an initiative to make a vegetable garden so that
the children can indulge in fresh produce.]

Early Childhood Development - there‘s a step ahead ...

... ke ye nngwe ya mehlala ye mebotse. Barutiši ke ba lesome, bao ba
selelago ba na le mangwalo a bokgoni, Tlhako ya Bosetšhaba ya
Maswanedi a Dithuto ya legato la 4,(NQF) o tee o na le Tlhako ya

09 MARCH 2017

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Bosetšhaba ya Maswanedi a Dithuto ya legato la 5, ba babedi ba gare
ba ithuta Tlhako ya Bosetšhaba ya Maswanedi a Dithuto a Bosetšhaba a
legato la 4, ba babedi ba mafelelo ba na le marematlou. Ke therešo o
di bone Anthony J D Angelo ge a tla re, ke a mo tsopola:
(Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[... and this is one of the best examples: There are 10 teachers at
the school: 6 of them have level 4 of the National Qualification
Framework (NQF); One teacher has NQF level 5; two teachers are
currently working on NQF level 4;and the last two have matric

J D Angelo had it right when he said, and I quote


Develop a passion for learning. If you do, you will never cease to

Go ditlhohlo ka moka tšeo di hweditšwego, Molekgotlaphethiši, re a
go leboga ka lebaka la gore ge re eme mo, re ile ra ikana gore tše
dingwe tša ditlhotlo o šale o di rarolla. Re a kwa mo gore o kgonne
go tšwela pele, re a go leboga. Gatela pele, o tšwele pele,
Molekgotlaphethiši. A re re sephetho e bile gore Molekgotlaphethiši
wa tša Thuto, e lego mohl Mna Makupula, a lebeledišiše le go lekola
ditlhotlo ka moka tše di hweditšwego, kudukudu taba ya dinamelwa ya
barutwana. Ka lebaka la ponagalo ya naga - ka moka re a tseba gore
sebopego sa Kapa Bohlabela ga se sa ema gabotse, e dutše godimo ga
meboto. Ke ka moo le bonago dikolo di le kgole le kgole.

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Polokego dikolong, kabo ya barutiši, dipuku tša go bala, dihostele
dikolong ke tše dingwe tša dikeletšo tše re tlilego ka tšona ka
lebaka la sebopego sa Kapa Bohlabela. Re bone gore bana ge ba tloga
ka kua thoko yela, ba bangwe ba tloga ka mo, ba bangwe ba tshela
dinoka le maope, matšatši a mangwe ga go kgonagale gore ba fihle
sekolong. Ga go šetšwe taba ya gore go be le dihostele gore bana ba
rena ba tle ba bolokege. Go matlafatša thuto, Molekgotlaphethiši o
hlalositše phepo ya barutwana le kopanyo ya dikolo tše dinnyane, le
dikolo tša go ikgetha - kudu ka gore go barutwana ba ba go se
itekanele ga go bonolo go latišiša mananeo a thuto a dikolo tša bona
go swana le a tše di tlwaelegilego.

Modulasetulo wa Ngwako, tše ka moka di ka kgonega ge re ka se lebale
gore ge nkabe e se ka peke le tšhisele kua Robben Island, re ka be
re se moo re lego gona lehono. Rena re bakgodi ba moriti, a re
boneng gore setšhaba sa Afrika-Borwa se dula tlase ga wona se nwe
meetse a mokgako.

Molaetša wa mafelelo šoo. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs

[Hon MEC, despite all the challenges we are faced with, we still
thank you for resolving the challenges that we agreed you will
resolve. We hear that you managed to continue to address the
challenges, and we thank you. Keep it up. The consensus reached was

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that the MEC for Education Mr Makupula will monitor and evaluate the
findings of the challenges.

House Chairperson, all this is possible only if we do not forget
that had it not been by pick and chisel at Robben Island, we would
not be where we are today. We are just the trendsetters, and let us
ensure that our fellow South Africans sit back, relax, and enjoy the
fruit of our labour.

I have the last message to say.]

Against all odds, we will achieve all our goals. Let us make early
childhood development a top priority amongst the measures to improve
the quality of education and long-term prospects of future
generations. Dedicated resources should be channelled towards
ensuring that all children are well cared for from an early age and
receive appropriate emotional, cognitive and physical development

A re šomeng; a re boneng dipoelo tša mašeleng ao ba le filego ona –
dibilione tše R32,9

tšeo di abetšwego Kgoro ya Thuto ya Kapa

Bohlabela ke Molekgotlaphethiši, Mna Sakhumzi Somyo wa Kgoro ya
Tlhabollo ya Ekonomi. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

09 MARCH 2017

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[Let us work together; let us make use of the allocated funds of
R32, 9 billion for the Eastern Cape Education Department by MEC Mr
Sakhumzi Somyo of the Department of Economic Developemnt.]

J F Kennedy said, ―the goal of education is the advancement of
knowledge and the dissemination of truth‖.

Re a leboga. [Legoswi.] [I thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, Chairperson of Council, MECs,
colleagues. I am not going to say much about the Taking Parliament
to the People pre-visits in Alfred Nzo District on 18 to 21 October
2016. Those visits focused specifically on education in the Alfred
Nzo District. It is, however, safe to say, hon MEC, that education
in that district is a disaster waiting to happen. What is left is
for the Premier of the Eastern Cape to put together emergency rescue
plans, so that when the disaster does happen, at least some souls
can be saved.

During the Taking Parliament to the People programme, I was part of
the team that visited the local economic development, LED, sites and
that is what I‘m going to focus on. The LED sites that were visited
are The Agricultural Production and Processing in Dimbaza;
Protective Wear Manufacturing in King William‘s Town; Steve Biko
Centre in Ginsberg; BCM Automotive Aftermarket incubator in
Mdantsane; East London Industrial Development Zone, IDZ; Ncera

09 MARCH 2017

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Macadamia Farming (Pty) Ltd; Mngqesha Great Place Tourism Site in
Dimbaza; Ilitha Lomzamo trading as Bee Brite Cleaning Products,
manufactures of households and industrial detergents in Mdantsane;
Duncan Village Business Support Centre; and Magebheza Furniture
Manufactures in Fort Jackson.

These projects are a mix of own funding and government funding.
Government funding is at all levels, namely local, provincial and
national. What was noticeable with most of them is that even those
that could be doing much better than the current scenario mostly
suffer from underfunding and a lack of adequate support, especially
from the local and provincial governments. A few of them are indeed
better funded. They just need time and professionally skilled
support from government in order to stabilise.

Two projects that surprised us for performing extremely well even
with very little or no support at all from government – financial or
otherwise – are the Magebheza Furniture Manufacturers and the
Protective Wear Manufacturing. I am sure with adequate funding and
support from relevant levels of government, these two industries can
do much better. This will also be in line with government‘s ideology
of industrialisation and the President‘s call for economic

The owners of these two industries are young black males from the
townships. National government officials who were in our company

09 MARCH 2017

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promised to get closer to these industries. One hopes that the local
government officials will do the necessary follow-ups that were

The East London IDZ has big plans, with a promising vision, but also
suffers from underfunding to realise the vision. I wish to commend
the national government officials who were with us, especially Mr
Thami Klassen from the Department of Trade and Industry. He proved
to be very hands-on with what is going on in the Eastern Cape
regarding matters of both trade and industry and also economic
development. The colleagues who were with me here can testify to

The public hearings conducted at the Christian Centre in Abbotsford
on 15 and 16 November and in the Buffalo City provided a very
interesting scenario. The scenario was much more interesting, at
times, than what the members of the community were saying. The
hearings were stage-managed and so skilfully manipulated. All the
people who were brought to the public address system to speak were
those who were prepared beforehand, and were telling us only what
was prepared for us to hear. All the spoilers who would have said
anything else not meant for our ears, were skilfully sidelined and
shut up in order for us not to hear anything else but the play.
Whoever had prepared that drama, I take my hat off to them. They are
the real masters of manipulation. Be that as it may, we came, we
saw, and we know exactly what is happening. I thank you.

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Mr B KOMPELA (Free State): Chairperson, MECs that are here today;
hon members of this important upper House, the NCOP; and special
delegates from our different provinces; firstly, I want to set on
record that there is no implosion of education in the Eastern Cape.
There is no implosion, in any way, that would happen in the Eastern
Cape. I want to put this so that members would understand the work
that is going on in the Eastern Cape. In fact, the Western Cape and
the DA must go to the Free State and see how to attain 93% wish of

The Western Cape must go to the Free State and see how the combating
of crime is happening in the Free State and not in the Western Cape.
The Western Cape must not come and play big brother here on a
rampant, formerly an apartheid dispensation called the Eastern Cape.
They must come to the Free State to learn. We are prepared to give
them some few lectures in the Free State. [Interjections.]

The MEC for Transport, Liaison and Security is interacting with the
Free State on some of the lessons that members have picked up in the

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Faber, why are you

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I would like to ask quite an intelligent
question to this debate after this hon member.

09 MARCH 2017

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Let us check first with the
hon MEC, hon Faber. Hon MEC, are you ready to take a question?

Mr B KOMPELA (Free State): Sorry Chair, I have little time.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): He is not ready, hon Faber.
Please take your seat. Continue hon MEC. Order, hon Hatting!

Mr B KOMPELA (Free State): The first thing that the hon MEC of the
Eastern Cape has done from a new HOD who has just come to work, was
to make sure that he gets his way through to the Free State so that
all the things that hon members picked up during the visit, can be
corrected. He went to see what lessons other provinces could give
for the Eastern Cape to be stable. We are working very intensely and
seriously with them so that they could see how we could help the
Eastern Cape.

In a historic process of developing a Constitution for our new
democracy, the ANC succeeded in arguing for an organ of Parliament
that was not only going to break with the elitist past but also
remain attached to the masses of our people. The organ in which the
two Houses including both the provincial legislatures and Salga
would work together in advancing the interests of our people and
pool their resources together, where necessary, so that they could
benefit our people.

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This programme of Taking Parliament to the People is very critical
because that is where you become a witness to the coalface of events
that are happening in municipalities and bring them to this
important House for us to be able to address. It is not a police
policing other people but it is how you enrich provinces to be able
to do take corrective measures on the issues that you pick up there
on a different face and outlook as neutral people. This is because
we deal with those matters in a partisan manner on daily basis as
provinces but you are not going to deal with them in a partisan
manner because you deal with them with a different and fresh
outlook. [Applause.]

More importantly, these organs of the legislative sphere would
contribute to the deepening of representative democracy and also
accountability of our people to their own people. Indeed, Parliament
as we know it today, as well as various other organs of a democratic
state, includes Chapter 9 institutions reflecting the important
democratic principles which are enshrined in the Constitution, of a
state rooted in the communities it serves through the principle of
representative and participatory democracy demonstrated by all of us
today in our endeavour to reach our people to find those things ...

... mabinabine a pelo tsa bona. [... they care deeply about.]

In particular, the NCOP as an organ of Parliament in a legislative
sphere would ensure that a new democratic institution would refer

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mainly to the accountability and service delivery to our people down
there, where a service is needed. Therefore, when we speak of
following up on the commitments, it is not just a theme but it is a
reality of assessment of the engagement on the things that were
raised; how far we have travelled so far; and what are the
challenges so that you give wisdom on resolving some of the
challenges that are facing provinces.

However, as implied in our Bill of Rights, the state is not only
bound to fulfil the rights contained therein, but remains
accountable to the fulfilment of those rights. Taking Parliament to
the People is therefore about how one part of a singular Parliament
holds the executive accountable and thereby ensuring that the
executive serves the people who have elected them.

How then do we together demonstrate once more that the ANC-led
government is not only responsive by following up on its commitments
but also correcting all those things which have been picked up?
Allow me to illustrate, in particular, an important constitutional

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon MEC, my apology, sir.
Hon Faber.

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I really would ask if it is possible for
the hon member to answer one of my questions if there is a few

09 MARCH 2017

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moments left after his speech, or you can even extend his time so
that he can.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Faber, please take your
seat! Continue hon MEC.

Mr B KOMPELA (Free State): ... principle that oversight and
accountability are, in fact, the fulfilment of commitments made to
our people ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): My apology hon MEC, the
other member is on his feet. What is the problem, hon Smit?

Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chair, it is standard practice that, if a member
stands on a point of order like I am doing, the member at the podium
sits down unless there is a special arrangement Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Smit, the hon member did
not stand on a point of order. Please continue, hon MEC.

Mr B KOMPELA (Free State): ... by referring to a specific focus area
of Taking Parliament to the People, in this case the work that was
undertaken by the Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality with
specific focus on health issues raised during the programme in
November 2016.

09 MARCH 2017

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During the period 18 to 21 October 2016, the NCOP undertook a previsit to the Alfred Nzo Municipality and within two weeks followed
up, from 14 to 18 November 2016, with the 2016 Taking Parliament and
Legislature to the People programme. It was important that this
should happen so that the NCOP should have an integrated approach of
all the accounting levels including the local Salga as an important
integral part of this institution in order that at least all these
matters could be listened to.

With specific reference to health issues, for example, key issues
emerged, illustrating why we say the state must be responsive.
Indeed, Taking Parliament to the People, as a principle and
practice, recognises the role of not only provincial legislatures as
important role-players, but how our communities must direct organs
of state on issues affecting them and which are very important.

Therefore, it is important that, in joining hands with the
provincial legislatures and Salga, the NCOP recognises that
provinces have more intimate information on their environments and
Salga is also like that because local government is at the coalface
of things that are happening in municipalities. Certain issues can
be resolved literally on the spot on that day when all of us have
gone there jointly.

Clearly, Taking Parliament to the People is a democratic practice
that involves all role-players and stakeholders including the

09 MARCH 2017

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communities themselves. The key issues that emerged therefore ranged
from education, water and sanitation, unemployment, health and so
on. Many things that arose there were quadruple of burden of
diseases. That was the main thing in that area which has to be
focused on, and we are happy that the province is beginning to be
equal to the task.

The shortage of clinics was one of the things that were raised,
particularly in newly emerged communities or those that have
experienced growth. The township has a rapid growth and therefore
clinics are unable to carry the load. A clinic in Noncedo in Ward 20
was no longer big enough to carry huge load. There is a need for
more clinics in Masingatha, Tolofiyeni and Mdingi in Ward 37.

Ward 27 would also need a bigger clinic because there is a rapid
expansion of a settlement. All these are challenges that are not
man-made but challenges of the patterns which are emerging
throughout any other economy which is struggling, where people would
look for better or greener pastures. Therefore, such a place which
has been identified would always carry a burden of a number of
people who like to come to greener pastures. However, on the
contrary, that might not be greener pastures.

Already, as early as November 2016, soon after the visit but not
necessarily as a result of that visit only, the hon MEC for Health
and all other MECs in the Eastern Cape had their hands dirty, and

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are at work. When this hon Parliament goes back there, at least
there should be a different scenario and impression that you‘ll get.
Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: House Chairperson, with due respect, can I please
have two minutes to address you on a point of privilege, please?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mthimunye, I am not
going to give you that time, please take your seat.

Mr L B GAEHLER: House Chairperson, you started this debate on a high
note and let‘s hope you can end it on the same note.

The UDM notes and welcomes the commitment by the Premier of the
Eastern Cape in his state of the province address in relation to the
creation of better access to quality education as an apex priority
of the province. In this regard, we make the following innovation as
part of the solution:

Equip the school principals with skills and knowledge to lead and
change and mobilise the communities around their school; provide
practical hands-on support to principals as they embark on a change
journey at their schools; share what works with and engage leaders
to replicate proven intervention; partner school principals with
local brewed business leaders with skills and knowledge.

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The principals must work with community members to rediscover their
capacity to lead and collaborate in this approach and must then
produce the following outcome to the turnaround:

Principals that are capacitated with confidence and skills to lead;
a school management team that works as an aligned and cohesive team;
a motivated teacher team re-energised to teach with joy and engage
parents and community members; learners to benefit from all the
crucial improvements.

On a light note, the challenge of water in the Nelson Mandela Bay is
a critical area for cooperation of all spheres of government. The
Premier also spoke about education that it is also a priority
project. The challenge of health cannot be resolved where water is
not available. This means that efforts to ensure better management
of available water supply.

House Chairperson, this is my province I am talking about. You
cannot divide or take the challenge of roads in the Eastern Cape.
Teachers in Eastern Cape travel for 160km daily to get to their
schools which mean 320km a day on those bad roads. So, if you want
to address the issue of education you have to address the issue of
roads. It is very important, our roads are a mess and teachers have
to travel on these bad roads.

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Secondly, Eastern Cape has inherited a backlog of infrastructure.
Our schools are bad; we have to accept that this is the truth of the
matter - that is what we say always. The national government must
plough more money in infrastructure. We need to plough more money
into infrastructure.

Lastly, just a few points ...

Mphathiswa kwiphondo [MEC], into yabantwana abangakwazi ukungena
ezikolweni kuba bengenazazisi ifuna ukuqwalaselwa. [MEC, I suggest
that we seriously consider the challenges children face who are not
accepted at schools because they don‘t have ID documents.]

Yes, we have to verify their identity but at least register them at
school because those poor kids are losing.

Lastly, today we are talking of the year of O R Tambo. You speak
about him but what is happening at the O R Tambo Technical School
... the quality – there are no equipment; there is nothing. How can
you? Oliver Reginald Tambo was a leader of South Africans not of the
ANC, make no mistake. But not only that, MEC, all technical schools
in the Eastern Cape are in a mess.

Wena, musa ukushawutisa maan, awazinto wena. [Kwahlekwa] [You, don‘t
shout, you don‘t know anything. [Laughter.]]

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All technical schools in the Eastern Cape are a mess. So, we need to
invest in our technical schools because those kids need to get out
there and learn. We went to O R Tambo Technical School and there is
nothing happening; there are no roads, there are no equipments there is nothing. Those are the things that need to be addressed in
the Eastern Cape. Do not politicise this debate, it does not need
politicising or the Western Cape and so on, we are all South
Africans. So, that needs to be addressed. Thank you.

Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chairperson, hon Thandi Modise, the Chairperson of
the NCOP, the ANC is unequivocally committed to changing the lives
of our people and deliver quality services. We in the ANC know very
well that this commitment requires dedication, analysis,
determination and strategic actions.

Fortunately, we have been taught by Mr Nelson Mandela that: ‖If
every racist statute were to be repealed tomorrow, leaving the
economic status quo undisturbed, white domination in its most
essential aspects would remain.‖ This is what we observed during
Taking Parliament to the People in the Eastern Cape. The ANC and
this democratic government are accordingly now concentrating on
radical economic transformation.

We have been successful in our role of making the NCOP a forum where
ordinary people can make their voices heard. MEC Makupula welcomed
the report of Taking Parliament to the People, as an indication of

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how we, as this House, have succeeded in serving the provinces that
we are representing. From the report of this august activity, it is
abundantly clear that the legacies of two homeland governments,
Transkei and Ciskei, and its apartheid masters caused immeasurable
injustices, resulting in the present unemployment, inequality and
poverty, prevalent in the Eastern Cape province. We have had hon
Gaehler, as a member from the opposition party, sharing with us the
inheritance of the Eastern Cape province.

It is painful to observe how access to social services like
education, housing and health continue to impoverish, plague and
disadvantage scores of Eastern Cape residents.

On the other hand, we were humbled by the tremendous interventions
initiated since 1994. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, please don‘t
drown the speaker. [Interjections.] Hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele! Hon
Mokwele, please.

Mr E MAKUE: We were humbled by the tremendous interventions
initiated since 1994. Due to the severity of the challenges, there
remains a lot to be done. We will be the first to say that. We know
and hon Faber should know as well that freedom is not free. We have
to pay a price for that.

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It is this Parliament, led by the ANC that decided to annually visit
several communities as part of Taking Parliament to the People. For
hon Faber, that was most probably the first time that he visited the
Eastern Cape. We commend our leaders for facilitating such an
enriching experience, both for us, but more importantly, for the
people in the Eastern Cape that we are serving.

By Taking Parliament to the People, we have raised hope. We have
listened and we have learned. This government will act in the best
interests of our people, particularly the historically disadvantaged
people. The MEC for Education in the province has indicated that to
us. We should marvel at the fact that we have had a representative
from the DA in the Western Cape offering to co-operate, as well as
the MEC in the Free State.

Mr W F FABER: Hon Chairperson, will the member take a question? I
would really like to ask him a question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, are you ready to
take his question?

Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chair, I will gladly take his question if he comes
to me when the camera is not on him, after the session.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): He is not ready. Please,
take your seat, hon member.

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Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, can they take the camera off me. I will
please ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, please take your
seat. Hon Faber, please take your seat.

Mr E MAKUE: Most of the people that we engaged and consulted
received us warmly. They welcomed our consultations and openly
shared those matters that need redress. Wherever they could, people
proudly shared their achievements resulting from the opportunities
created by the democratic government. Hon Ncitha, as a delegate from
the Free State, emphasised the importance to reprioritise our
limited resources.

Zwelakhe Senior Secondary School in the Ntabankulu Local
Municipality is but one sterling example of what people‘s
determination can yield. This rural school achieved an 87,4% pass
rate for 2015.

Members of this House who were joined by our National Assembly
counterparts during oversight in several and different communities,
all reported on extraordinary achievements, but also on the
staggering challenges.

Building on the Freedom Charter and particularly the ideal that the
people shall govern, Taking Parliament to the People is a dedicated

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effort where we use our time and resources in convening public
meetings, so that we can hear what the people want from government.
Ordinary people had the opportunity to take part in this people‘s

St Thomas School for the Deaf in Woodlands is however a shocking
example of the educational and training needs of differently abled
children and children with special needs. While the school
accommodates learners from Grade R to Grade 12, those learners who
manage to pass Grade 12, in schools like these, are still
underemployed and are still having difficulties with ensuring that
they acquire the requisite skills so that they can contribute to the
economy of this country. Such experiences require our drastic and
urgent intervention.

Paulo Freire, in his publication on Pedagogy of the Oppressed, aptly
reminds us that, and I quote:

While the problem of humanisation has always, from an axiological
point of view, been humankind‘s central problem, it now takes on
the character of an inescapable concern. But while both
humanisation and dehumanisation are real alternatives, only the
first is the people‘s vocation. This vocation is constantly
negated, yet it is affirmed by that very negation. It is affirmed
by the yearning of the oppressed for freedom and justice, and by
their struggle to recover their lost humanity.

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The people of the Eastern Cape are no different in their struggle to
recover their lost humanity.

The Eastern Cape is known for historic and prestigious schools like
Lovedale, Healdtown and the Holy Cross Anglican School. This is
where the seeds of modern anticolonial struggles were germinated,
alongside many other historic schools across the country.

For hon Maqwebu, who is not here, there are 92 755 Eastern Cape
students who registered to write the 2016 Grade 12 exams. However,
only 83 000 actually wrote them. It is sad that only 15 645 got a
Bachelor level pass, which represent only 19% of students who have a
chance of attending universities. We are saying this is not the
South Africa we want. We want to enable those students to live
better and to have a better chance in life. We will not like hon
Magwebu call them the lost generation because they are our present
leaders and our future leaders. Hon Ncitha indicated to us the
government interventions that are presently being undertaken and
that was further emphasised by the MEC of the Eastern Cape.

Why did this happen? It happened because we, as the NCOP, were
prepared to move out of this confined space and join our government
leaders in that part of the country, to show our solidarity with

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Former President of the ANC, Oliver Tambo, warned us to be wary of
the of wedge driver and to watch his poisonous tongue. He further
commanded that the order of the day to all units of Umkhonto we
Sizwe is that they must strengthen links with the people. While we
are not using arms, we are using our legitimacy as this government
in order to strengthen links with the people through Taking
Parliament to the People.

Finally Oliver Tambo said and I quote:

I had other plans for my life. I wanted to be a Minister of the
Anglican Church with Bishop Clayton. After we married, I was going
to train for the ministry in Cape Town. But God had other plans
for me. God‘s plan was for me to fight in the political liberation
for my people.

That is the fight that the ANC continues to fight in humility. Thank
you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Chairperson, let me thank
you, hon members, for the debate. Let me also express my
disappointment at the politicizing of a very sensitive area in the
lives and the future of this country. It always hurts when we bring
politics into health, security, and into education; it is not about
us. We are passed it. It is about the future of this country and

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about us trying to speak the truth so that we can identify what is
on the ground so that we can find solutions.

So, for me, it is important for us to begin to say that the report
as it stands works and in all represents the picture, hon Mathebula,
of what we saw. It shows the good; and there were good and excellent
schools in the Eastern Cape. It represents the bet that we saw; it
represents simple issues of interrelational problems. It represents
serious lack of infrastructure and we can go into it - the

For instance, if you have noticed - those of you who went to
Matatiele - you should have noticed that the roads go up and up and
that brings us back into the issue of concurrence of the powers in
education between the province and the national. And that is the
elephant in the house that after 20 years we need to go back to reexamine concurrence between the national government and the
provincials on health, social development and on education; because
sometimes you whip the wrong people.

It is also very true that when we pushed the Eastern Cape and we
were very unkind in our group and we had representatives of the
national government department. The administration which the Eastern
Cape was put under, the withdrawal of the national department; but
the remnants of the centralisation of issues still bogs down issues
of education in the Eastern Cape. We are raising that, we are taking

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it up, and we are also saying that even if we would take some issues
which we think belong directly to the national department, the
Eastern Cape must pull up their socks because those children must
get a fair chance.

The South Africa that we talk about must have leadership. Now, the
generic definition of leadership is that you are looking at a
multifaceted process of identifying goals; of motivating people to
act; of providing support; of ensuring that, that which was
identified gets achieved – as leadership. It is not about the self.
It is about processes and about collectives, about service, about
giving and not about how I gain out of the system. It is about
values and principles. Let us face it politicians, sometimes we need
to put values, principles, integrity into that so that we can then
push that agenda which does not belong to us but belongs to the
children, to the future of this country, which is much more
important than who has what colour.

So, I am saying that I am a little bit disappointed. We protect the
Constitution and yet the Constitution is a negotiated process. It
has the good and the bad. It must be something which for as long as
we have got it becomes the umbrella and the protective layer into
the future for our children. So I want to say that we need to
develop leaders; we need to knit South African society together. We
need to forget blackness and whiteness. We need to work to where we
can erase the rural and the urban.

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We need to create a South Africa which has common standards which we
are all fighting to attain so that nobody remembers their colour
more than they remember their own dreams. That is the role of
education and that is what some of us would stand up for. This
politicking is sometime just embarrassing us as a country. It is
also true that in this politicking; we must also be at one with
dealing with corruption; does it exist, can we identify it; deal
with it and don‘t postpone it. Because some of the issues if we
follow them, why were infrastructures not built, what happened to
the money that was allocated for it? We need to follow the runs and
that is our job as the public representatives. [Applause.]

So, sometimes if we can get together and say oversight is what
unites us in the House. Then we can start getting things right which
we need to get right. Perhaps, we can then get back to getting the
integrity of Parliament where it should be and that should be that
we are public representatives and we are focusing on the people who
sent us here.

Chairperson, I would beg that the report be adopted because it does
represent and I would also just reiterate my gratitude to the
different provinces that are here today, but that were also in the
pre-visits and in the final taking Parliament to the people. I was
very proud to see that it did not matter where the members came
from. They asked the questions and they were not saying that I come
from this party and therefore I will not – we did.

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I will also say, again, it was a new exercise, a departure from the
normal way of taking Parliament to the people but the fact that we
were in a friction sometimes having to give way as the NCOP to the
programme of the legislature legitimately, and sometimes asking the
legislature to put their programme abeyance to join us in ours and
it worked. We are grateful; and let us now work on making sure that
Ntate Makupula follows through with some of the things that he has
said are outstanding here. But also help him with the Minister at
national level to open up; and ensure that those things does happen,
especially on the money for infrastructure development; especially
on fixing policy when it comes to children with special needs. The
facilities are just not it – it just doesn‘t.

Now, you cannot get into a situation where black people will run
away from the Eastern Cape because the kids have autism and there
are no schools specialising on that - the kids have special needs
which schools – they tried! In one school in which we were with hon
Mpambo-Sibukwana we were so impressed. The teachers knew exactly
what needed to be happening. It was just not there. So, do you whip
the teachers when they know; but they don‘t have the wear-with-all?

So, I want to say that our report will always strive to reflect what
needs to be done and we will follow through. By the time we go back
to the Eastern Cape at the end of 2017, we will have made sure that
we have hounded, we have screamed, we have pounded the doors of the

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executive to ensure that the future of our children gets better and
better. Ke a leboga, Mme. [Thank you, Madam.] [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Ke a leboga, motswadi.
[Thank you, our parent.] Thank you very much. Order, hon members! We
really want to thank our mother for telling all of us, including
you, hon Khawula. You were included, hon Khawula, when mama was
talking to all of us. I want to respond because you kept on saying,
―Tell them Ma!‖ and you were excluding yourself there. So, mama was
telling all of us. [Laughter.] Okay, hon Khawula.

Mr M KHAWULA: Chairperson, on a point of order, the Chair is out of
order right now. [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): That concludes the debate. I
shall now put the question. The question is that the Report be
agreed to.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Chairperson, yap! On my personal note, then to
the powers that be, this NCOP excluded me from this programme I
raised the question of the brail, I raise it again and we can‘t be
hypocritical about our commitment to the disabled people when I am

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sitting hear and I can‘t even get a brail programme. This is about
the fact that I raised a point, and I was ignored and I did not
attend this programme.

However, on behalf of KwaZulu-Natal, we support the Report because
it is important for the people whom we serve and represent. Thank

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Faber and hon Thandi
Sibukwana, please take your seats!

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, just on a point of order ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, hon Faber, both of you
are standing. Hon Thandi, please take your seat. What is the point
of order?

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I am Sorry that I am speaking, but the
delegation from the Northern Cape is sitting here. And there was no
one in this delegation decided nor did we decide on anything, but if
the hon member takes it on his own or maybe he can show me a written
reply, we can maybe look at it. [Interjections.]

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Faber, take your seat!
Take your seat, hon Faber, and let me tell you that you are now
totally out of order. Western Cape?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you. All heads of
delegation have voted. Nine provinces have voted in favour.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the

The Council adjourned at 18:22.


Please click on the following link to access the relevant Announcements, Tablings and
Committee Reports for this day.