Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 06 Jun 2017


No summary available.




The House met at 14:01.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: International Relations and Members Support took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:

That the Council, notwithstanding the provisions of Rule 17(1) of the Rules of the National Council of Provinces, grants hon M J Mohapi leave of absence from proceedings of both the council and committees of the Council in terms of Rule 17(2) until the hon member is ready to resume his duties. I thank you.

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.


IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, Kwazulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


Debate on Vote No 38 – Human Settlements.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, hon members, I am very pleased to have with me today, some of my hard working MECs to support this Vote in the NCOP.

South Africa is an undisputed world first in its delivery of housing for the poor. However, we as a people have to rediscover the distinction between hope and expectation.
Nothing is more difficult than having to deal with the moving target of housing our people against a background of heightened expectation and anger.

The agitated expectative state of mind, although very legitimate, makes it very difficult to have meaningful dialogue with our people as no further explanations are acceptable now, and yet the hard truth is, no matter the circumstances, the reality of our situation needs to be understood by all of us, because it needs all of us to work together for a meaningful solution.

Here is our reality: We have provided 4.5 million houses and subsidies and our society grows phenomenally above that. Flowing from the effects of influx control and exclusion of the past, and following from the policies of large-scale evictions, before 1994, we inherited a dire crisis as a democratic state. Currently, our backlog grows as society grows.

We are urbanising at 2,4% annually, in addition, count the in migration from neighbouring countries. This reality has to be at the back of everybody‘s minds when we deal with where we come from and what we are confronted with, so that our solutions are understood in the context of what is possible, what we have achieved. Measure us by what we have been able to do, which no other country in the world has been able to do. Measure us by our commitment – by what we have done.

We are the only country known to man that has and continues to build free houses. We will continue to build houses for the indigent, but the rest of us will have to build houses together with government and where possible, utilise subsidy options that available. Each of the citizens requiring assistance from government will have to be part of the solution.

Having assessed our situation, gone through the evolution of policies, and engaged with our communities, we have decided that we are going to embark on a vigorous, multi-pronged new approach to our challenge.

We think that this would suit our current situation better, and it is underpinned by the following: Our people have to understand that the responsibility to shelter is the most fundamental responsibility that each one of us has. So we start with the responsibility, that each one of us has, and thereafter we work out how each executes this intrinsic, natural responsibility.

The State, on the other hand, is required to perform its duty by providing the right to access to housing. It becomes the enabler within the resources it has and within the policies that guide that right to access.

We both have a responsibility, we the government and the people of this country. Our people have to understand that that their rights, of which the government is the custodian, goes with a responsibility. If so, our message will be aligned and we‘ll go so much further.

We have now adopted a vigorous, multi-pronged strategy, based on the people‘s rights and government‘s rights and responsibilities to them. We will now concentrate on being an enabler to those who can and being a provider to only those who can‘t. We are calling on our people to play their part in executing their responsibility together with us in delivering a right. We need to be aligned in this, as we both have a responsibility.

We are accordingly shifting our focus to strengthen our strategies by providing land for people to build with our assistance, coupled with our temporary shelter programme, and assisted in large measure by our municipalities.            Working together with the Departments of Rural Development and Land Affairs and Public Works we will establish in collaboration with municipalities land that will be that will be serviced and this will be a priority for our municipalities to ensure that it is serviced and there is sufficient infrastructure.

On a more urgent basis, our centralised data base will determine the allocation so that those who can and are on our database will be required to build their own houses, with our help. Further, it will be compulsory that these stands be converted into housing units within a prescribed period so that we don‘t end up creating more informal settlements.

The second leg of our strategy is the new catalytic projects. This has been made clear to most people as of last year. I indicated to you last year, in order to upscale and deal with the growing numbers of the need that we have so that we have a greater yield. We expect that none of the catalytic projects that we have adopted will yield less than 10 000 units, consisting of mixed typologies.

In a situation where people live in dire circumstances, we‘ll have a phased approach, very similar to the ones that we have and lessons learnt on the N2 Gateway Project.

Seeing as I am in a space that represents our provinces it would be prudent to give you a breakdown of the projects that we have in our provinces. MinMec has approved 46 government-led projects and will be considering two more in two days time, and these will be for the Western Cape.

Here are the provinces and the catalytic projects that have been approved by MinMec: Located in the Eastern Cape we have 6 catalytic projects; in the Western Cape 7, and if MinMec agrees in two days time we will have 9 for the Western Cape; for the Northern Cape 3; for Gauteng 14; for Limpopo 2, and I see the MEC frowning. She probably wants it 6, and we are amenable to that; for KwaZulu-Natal 8; Free State 3; for Mpumalanga 1; and that is possibly because we have a new comer in the position of an MEC, perhaps we may raise this to 10, MEC. For the North West we have 2 catalytic projects.

Through these we also hope to produce a transformed construction sector, a huge yield of jobs, especially for the youth and many other possibilities to change our landscape for the future.

Through the catalytic projects we have set ourselves on a path to transformation of our urban spaces as well as the industry that are key in the development of settlements. In the transformation of these we hope to achieve: firstly, in the area of developers we have set aside 40% for direct black ownership of the construction companies with which we are doing business.

Furthermore, the same would apply to black managers, management control, executive directors and or managers. We have had the

opportunity of reflecting on our sector and have found that shockingly, after 23 years, we have failed to successfully transform the construction sector. We hope we will use the catalytic projects to make sure that this is a truly transformed sector and that Black entrepreneurs find a home and a future in this joint venture. We hope that the picture will change very soon as we have the catalytic projects unfolding.

Within out community we hope that the communities will be the first to benefit and we have set aside 10% for the communities within which the catalytic projects will be built. Over and above that we would like to set aside 30% of all projects that must be spent on women and youth. We would like to empower women because as you know, Chairperson, women are better at building than anybody else, not only do we build a human being we also build better houses. [Applause.]

Chairperson, I hear some murmuring here there is nobody else who can build a human being except a women. [Interjections.] It is true, it is true. We just have the ingredients and we build the best there is, similarly with houses there isn‘t anybody better than a women to build houses. [Applause.]

We are hoping that we will have 30% representation in management and executive directors of any company that is doing business with us.
Further than that, we want to make sure that our youth are drawn in and make the bulk of the employment and ensure that they are part of the life cycle of the catalytic project.

We would make sure that we have preferred material suppliers we will list the material required and ensure that this is closely monitored so that we can transform that sector as well. At the moment we are held hostage by a monopoly over our material suppliers.

We would also like to make sure that we insist on innovative material and technologies. This will form a greater part of our new approach because it is faster, eco-friendly and cheaper in the long run.

I would like to report back to hon members on matters that I raised in this House and matters that were of concern to you as you go out to your provinces and report on what progress has been achieved.

We will be conducting an audit of all blocked projects that you complained about last year and recall the contractors who left

projects unfinished. Where necessary, we‘ll take legal action to force the contractors to build and complete those projects.

We have taken a decision to partner with the CSIR to ensure that we can provide solar panels for those houses where lack of electricity has stopped us from allocating houses. As you know, electricity is outside of our scope and sometimes we are unable to give away houses because we don‘t have the necessary electricity. We have had a discussion with the CSIR and they are willing to provide us with solar panels, so it will be possible for us to have people moving in even as we await the rollout of electricity.

I can confirm that we now have an established centralised database and we are working on this in conjunction with the CSIR, Statistics SA and SITA. We have a Task Team that will be rolling out this database and in future each province can look our for a mobile units that belong to Human Settlements, that will go from village to village ensuring that people will be able check their details on our database and when they qualify ensure that they apply. We are now going to the people instead of waiting for the people to come to us. So, look out for those mobile units. [Applause.]

Our Communications Team will ensure that the details of the visits to each area or village are announced ahead of time so that people know when the mobile unit will be in their area.

Following our engagement with communities where we committed to using mobile units to fast-track registration of the people in affected areas, the Gauteng Department of Human Settlements started the process to consult with communities in Eldorado Park; Finetown; Kliptown; Klipspruit West; Freedom Park; Slovo Park and Ennerdale to understand the underlying issues within these communities which seem to stem from the fact that they have waited so long for accommodation.

Based on the outcome of consultative action with community leaders, we are going to have a mass registration drive that will commence on
29 May 2017. Chairperson, the NCOP is advised to monitor this and this for that is what I was promised and I would like your assistance between 29 May and 5 June 2017 there will be a massive rollout in Gauteng.

I can report to this House that additional 3689 households, across Gauteng registered their need for adequate shelter – and 3662

registrations between Cities of Johannesburg, Tshwane and Ekurhuleni are now being processed.

According to Statistics SA there are 430 000 households or 1 056 people living in shacks in informal settlements in Gauteng alone, which translates to 10,07% households or 8,9% people, and combined with the number of households living in informal backyards being 787 000, this translates to 15,7% people in Gauteng living in backyards and in informal settlement.

And these figures could even be higher if one were to include households or people in formal backyard structures, where they are renting or rooms and cottages and such large numbers of our people living in informal areas. The point that I am making here is that we have a huge backload and this seem to be concentrated on those areas where there are possibilities of employment.

This figure demonstrates the extent of the challenges we face in providing decent housing and so we must prioritise the truly indigent, our elderly, child-headed households and our Military Veterans, and those people with disabilities.

In our first phase of prioritising government investment in housing initiatives and considering our limited resources, we have used the Master Spatial Plan as an indicator guiding us where to invest and this will be in consulted with other departments as we take this to Cabinet.

The second phase of prioritisation of investment will be social housing and the third phase will be informal settlement upgrading and using the municipalities, particularly the USDG.

Chairperson, I would like to indicate to you that we are taking a USDG policy proposal to Cabinet and we would like that this House here understands that there are concerns around the USDG and we would like you to monitor this. The USDG has very specific requirements to it or very specific responsibilities, and we have found in the past that we have had rollovers from particular municipalities and we are very much worried about that.

In particular that municipality that have rollovers and have not adequately used the USDG is Johannesburg Metro; the City of Cape Town and Ekurhuleni. Those of us here who come from those provinces, please make sure that you are able to assist our people use our resources meaningfully.

Chairperson, we comeback to the thorny issue of title deeds, when I had the occasion here before you explained that I have established a Ministerial task team that has taken over the responsibility that we had given to the EAAB to clear the backlog. We have found that the EAAB is not moving as fast as we would like it to because of several constraints.

Therefore we have taken this and made it a Ministerial task team and have ring fenced the resources that would go to this and we are and we are hoping that when we come here next year we will be able to tell you just how much we have covered in this area.

The responsibilities of the MECs will be to ensure that starting from 2014, which is their backlog and going forward, there will be no one that has been given a house that will not have a title deed instead of a happy letter. The MECs have committed to this, and perhaps when we comeback here next year, we will be able to find out from the MECs how much of these title deeds have been given out. We understand the dire need that these backlogs is given priority because it is one of our policies on poverty alleviation, that is why we have made it a priority project and we hope that we will make headway in that area.

What we have found is that in the cities of Johannesburg, Ekurhuleni and Cape Town where the rollovers have been most consistent; it is because we did not have the necessary monitoring and evaluation over these areas. We have now decided that we will have a proper monitoring device to ensure that the money that is given to the Metros for the USDG does the work that it is supposed to do.

A Framework Agreement on the Establishment of a Government Employees Housing Scheme is welcome news, and was signed with the Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council in 2015. We have now taken it over back to human settlements and the ultimate goal is to make sure that we can assist all government employees to own homes.

We want to educate and advise employees on housing options that are available to them. Please note that no member of this House will be eligible for a government employees housing scheme. The government employees housing scheme that members have is in Acacia Park and in
– God knows wherever it is.

We are currently funding young students because we would like to make sure that we can popularise the Human Settlements and ensure that Built Environment disciplines becomes a popular one and one of choice to our students. We are currently funding 246 students are

currently supported through different Universities a number of other students; 50 students in Mangosuthu University of Technology now, 95 students at Fort here, 38 students at Nelson Mandela University, 32 students at the University of Johannesburg Vaal, and TUT.

The department is also running built environment artisanship and learnership training programmes. In total, there will be 450 artisans registered by September last year and we hope that this number will grow in the future. We want to make sure that we are providing the necessary artisanship so that we are able to provide the necessary skills that we need to ensure that our mega projects are successful.

Chairperson, as I wind-up I would like to happily indicate to you that now we have established a bank - the Human Settlements Development Bank. It is not a commercial bank, it is a bank that is intended to assist our construction industry, especially the construction industry that has been struggling; namely, the black construction part of our industry. It is also intended to ensure that those people who are in the gap market are assisted in providing the necessary funding for them. [Applause.]

Chairperson, last I committed that we will deal vigorously with the issue of military veteran, and that we have been struggling with the database of that within one year I can indicate that 1421 applicants are ready and are housed already of the military veterans. [Applause.]

Finally, it is always worth emphasising that the government is an enabler. We would like you to please take this message across. We call on society to work with us to create their own future and help build their own houses, if they can. A house is the most fundamental need for humanity and it requires each one of us to play their part. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]


Nk L C DLAMINI: Sihlalo, ngibingelele amalungu ahloniphekile, uNgqongqoshe woMnyango Wezindawo Zokuhlaliswa Kwabantu ... [Minister of the Department of Human Settlements]


... the MECs in our midst and other special delegates. I want to start by congratulating the new Chief Whip, hon Mohai, and to wish him well in his new office. [Applause.] We acknowledge that it is not just a position hon Chief Whip; it comes with some huge


responsibility. We also acknowledge that we are having this debate today during the month that is dedicated to our young people in the country. We want to wish them well even though we are doing that with our very sad hearts that there a people who have taken it upon themselves in making sure that they kill our young people.

We are building these houses to ensure that we are living a good legacy for them but there are people who are out to attack our young people. We are just asking ourselves who those people are. Is it really an attack on the youth or an attack on the country? I would say I was listening to the debate that was taking place in the National Assembly about this particular subject. I was shocked to learn that there are people who think that they can push this huge responsibility to one party, the ANC. It is immature and it shows how much responsibility we have to teach people what it means to be a nation. It is not one person who can deal with the issue of the killing of our young people, women in particular and the children but it is all of us as a country who can do that.

As the Select Committee on Social Services, we are doing our best we can to contribute in ensuring that the future of our children is better than yesterday as compared to what we inherited. We are quite aware that ours was not an appointment for a salary but we were


elected through our party‘s systems so that we safeguard the interest of our people, as enshrined in the Constitution of the country. We do this through oversight, doing physical verification, interaction and engagement with the department, not with the intention to police but to ensure that what they present to us like what the Minister has done just now is implemented to the letter so that the interests of our people is safeguarded.

We can confirm, that though there are some challenges, but without any doubt, today‘s human settlement is a million times better than yesterday‘s human settlement in South Africa. We want to congratulate the department for the hard work that they are putting forth. And it has become better and better each and every year as we learn from ourselves and with the experience since we were among those first countries who are leading in the provision of houses to the poor and disadvantaged people in our country. It is indeed humbling to be part of the changing South Africa for the better.
With this particular Annual Performance Plan, APP, and the budget, as a committee we have satisfied ourselves on two occasions.

Firstly, we met with the department, we raised the issues that we were not happy with and asked them to go back and look at those issues. They came for the second time and we were satisfied that we


can support the budget because we think with what they are presenting to us it will indeed take the country forward. But having said that, there are few issues that we want to raise with you hon Minister and the department. The issue of title deeds, I know you have raised it; it cannot be like this anymore. We are saying that has to be prioritised in the office of the Minister. It has been with provinces or the municipalities; the pace has been very slow.
Providing a house without a title deed is like you are borrowing that person but giving a title deed you are giving ownership to that person to have a property for the first time for some of them. We are saying prioritise it, put it in your office and make sure that it is implemented as you said that with the MECs, when a house is issued, a title deed is also issued so that those people can own those properties. The issue of the Urban Settlements Development Grant, USDG, and the Minister is raising an issue of underspending or rollovers. I am just wondering because you will see them as rollovers on paper whether those monies are still there in the municipalities, if we may ask. That has to be monitored very strictly. We also raised an issue that it is not for the first time that we are raising this issue; it is for the third time today. We know that is beyond your department. The USDGs should not be limited to metros only. We are saying issues of urban development affect all urban areas whether they are a metro, city or town. The issue of


urban migration affects all urban areas. We are therefore saying it should be allocated to all urban areas so that they can equally benefit from it.

As much as we appreciate the speedy implementation of projects in some provinces which we really do appreciate but we are saying they should spend money as allocated to the. They should be responsible. Do not just spend and not knowing where the next money is going to come from because we have got very scarce resources. They must spend the money within their allocated budget. Equally, underspending from provinces is not acceptable if we consider the number of people who still need houses. We are saying to hon MECs, you are only responsible for human settlement in your provinces, try your best you could to ensure that performance is fast tracked so that houses are allocated to people who need housing. Those who are underspending in terms of metros and provinces we are saying, the money they have kept in their provinces or metros, that money could have been better used elsewhere in the department or the sector of human settlement. Lastly hon Minister, I am glad you raised the issue of Mpumalanga, I have it for you. We raised it last time that in Mpumalanga we have three big towns that are highly affected by urban migration. Firstly, Mbombela is the capital city and is a host to all government offices and is finally now hosting the University


of Mpumalanga. There is pressure for houses. The catalytic project should be considered for Mbombela but not only Mbombela in Mpumalanga that will include Govan Mbeki as well as Steve Tshwete, we need such projects

I think the MEC is no longer new, he is well-versed now on the needs of the province. I think there was an omission on that. While recognising the efforts made by the ANC-led government in providing adequate houses for the people, the country is still compounded by challenges in the delivery of housing. Our government is still faced with two major challenges in the development of sustainable human settlement in urban areas. Firstly, delivering the quantity of houses needed to reduce the massive housing backlog, notably in black townships, as we know our history that the problems that we are dealing with now ...


... tinkhinga tekutsi singabi netindlu ...


... is not something that just happened. It was planned, orchestrated and implemented by the apartheid government. The current government is still faced with those challenges. As the


result, more than 1,2 million households in South Africa still reside in informal dwellings. South Africa has been recognised internationally for its achievement in providing adequate housing to the poorest of the poor and also enhancing its programme of informal settlements upgrading. As mentioned earlier, our government has provided housing opportunities to more than four million which, if you calculate, is around 22 million South Africans who had an opportunity to housing yet the current backlog is still a worrying factor which needs to be implemented.

We take note of the fact that most of our people are still living in informal settlements especially in our black areas. We appreciate the catalytic projects initiated by the Department of Human Settlements and we are beginning to see the results of such projects. These catalytic projects are guided by the Breaking New Ground, BNG, policy which is the aimed to change the face of our cities whilst providing fully subsidised houses, Gap housing, especially for public servants, rental and social housing and serviced sites for the poor and middle class close to places of work.

We welcome the budget allocations to provincial departments which provides for the implementation of comprehensive human settlements.


The 2017-18 allocations for provincial departments are as follows: Eastern Cape R2,4 billion; Free State R1,1 billion; Gauteng
R5,2 billion; KwaZulu-Natal R3,4 billion; Limpopo R1,3 billion; Mpumalanga R1,3 billion; Northern Cape R402 million; North West R2,1 billion; and Western Cape R2,2 billion. We really appreciate the allocations. We also acknowledge the programmes that are aiming to assist cities to develop the inner cities especially the old buildings that are left unattended in the inner cities. With this, as a committee we think this plan that has been presented by the department the allocated budget will assist in providing the needed houses for our people. We therefore, as the committee, support but saying to departments, to provinces and metros, poor performance, underspending, overspending, is not acceptable. We support the budget. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

Ms M NDLANGISA (Eastern Cape): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and the MECs, hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party, hon members, I greet you all this afternoon.

We assemble today reflecting on a walked path and memories of experiences that have impacted on the lives of many. Our footsteps of oversight in the past financial year have offered reward and lessons. Footsteps that have walked at times in the path of heroes


that contributed to the freedom that now seems like it has always existed.

The late OR Tambo, who would have celebrated 100 years this year, over and over, confirmed during the dark days that freedom was inevitable. The inevitability rested as a dream in the hearts and minds of ordinary South Africans. To others, freedom was an illusion as the pain depleted the hope of some of the most vulnerable. On the other hand, the privileged ignored the voices of suffering by creating a parallel world of comfort in the environment of under- development.

This context was on the minds of the portfolio committee as it witnessed what some considered impossible - beautiful homes lined the scenic landscape that, on face value, hides the practical poverty of good people. We have visited construction sites which have empowered contractors, created jobs and enhanced the living conditions of communities. The targets are met and the houses are built. However, we still have a long list of matters that need serious attention by the department.

In the midst of the progress we have documented lessons and directed the department to improve. The obvious topical matter has been the


overcommitment leading to the late payment of contractors in the Eastern Cape. While it is admirable that many contractors are on site, the department must reduce its exposure. Furthermore, the department needs to address the challenges relating to the beneficiary administration. The corruption of illegal occupation must stop as it displaces the vulnerable of society.

Going forward, there is also a challenge of ensuring that the bulk infrastructure can be a priority to the municipalities because it blocks development. The department finds itself in a difficult situation to build houses in an unserviced area where, at the end of the day, we find that beneficiaries are burning roads because there is no water, electricity, etc instead of appreciating the beautiful houses built by this caring government.

In the new financial year, our footsteps will walk with the achievements in our hearts and resolve to achieve more. We will be vigilant to ensure that people benefit from the housing projects.

We wish to thank the hon Minister, the national Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements and the Select Committee on Human Settlements for their protection of the rights of the vulnerable. We will walk the new year; we will calm the restless storms; and we will bring to


life the words of OR Tambo. We, as the Eastern Cape support the budget. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Hon Chairperson, our democracy is built on the ideals of equality, human dignity and the advancement of human rights. These founding values are prominent in both the Freedom Charter as well as our Constitution.

We, as the DA, realise the importance of human dignity based on the ability for one to establish a sense of self-worth and self-respect, and to enjoy the respect of others, which is necessary for a fully- realised life. Under the ANC-led government, the right as well as the importance of the right has not been truly protected and respected.

To date, South Africa has almost 2 million households living in informal settlements. This number is a representative of a 600% increase since the start of our democracy in 1994. I am happy to hear from the Minister the progress that has been made with the Military Veterans project.

Just to remind you, in the year 2014, Minister Lindiwe Sisulu stood in front of South Africans and promised that the national Department


of Human Settlements would create over 1 million new housing opportunities by the year 2019. As we approach this goal-year, we see that little progress has been done. Given the fact that the ANC- led government is currently only producing 120 000 units per year as well as the fact that the cost of housing has been on a steady increase, in some cases even growing faster than the budget for social grants, it seems that the Minister has promised the South Africans a false hope.

The Vulindlela Development Association housing project remains incomplete for four years, and I would like to remind the Minister that many people get raped and massacred in these informal incomplete houses. A considerable R2,6 billion of state funds was allocated to the project in the year 2011. Yet, to date only 700 houses have been built in that regard. The quality of these houses is another cause for concern. Community members have reported that many of the built houses are without roofs, windows, doors or cement slabs. The Minister has also mentioned incomplete houses.

In 2016 President Jacob Zuma visited the area and Vulindlela Development Association offices promised community members house visits and to fix all building problems. To date, the buildings remain incomplete and hundreds of families are still squatting with


other relatives in cramped-up houses. This is obviously unacceptable. If the government has the resources to plan and implement a building project, then it should not be deemed unreasonable to expect good quality houses in the most realistically short period of time. By not providing members of the community with housing although funding has been provided, the government is directly violating its constitutional obligation, and is failing the people.

Although we can understand the complexity of human settlements provision faced by the government, serious examination pertaining to the issue of title deeds still needs to be done. I acknowledge the fact that you have mentioned this. We, as the DA, are conscious of our country‘s history where Africans were unfairly deprived of their land ownership rights.We also understand that in our democracy, we have to address and rectify this injustice in order to move towards a fair and just society. We also have an understanding of the value that good quality housing can contribute to one‘s perception of self and human dignity. The community members have waited long enough. It is time for the ANC to take more responsibility and rectify their mistakes.


This year, Minister Madikizela reported 75 300 title deeds being issued to South Africans by our DA-led government in the Western Cape. This is essential for land reform as it holds at its centre the transfer of both land and wealth that was previously unfairly taken away. Currently, South Africa is experiencing a backlog of 760 900 title deeds, and included in this number are over 600 000 deeds inherited from the period 1994 to 2014, as well as about
100 000 coming from the year 2014. Considering our success in the numbers of title deed transfers, one could expect these problem statistics to decrease under DA leadership and supervision.

Not only has the DA-led government been successful in distributing title deeds which secured housing and land for South Africans, but we still managed to create approximately 6 000 job opportunities in the Department of Human Settlements projects we had implemented specifically for the youth. These kinds of successes did not happen by chance. It is well-known that areas governed by the DA are significantly governed well when compared to their other party counterparts. The fact that our Department of Human Settlements also managed to produce a clean audit outcomes is also reflective of our zero-tolerance on corruption and mismanagement of state funds which have racked this country including all the benefits that are being tasted by the Guptas.


Essentially, the DA is a party that recognises the constitutional obligation that the government has to the people and actively takes measures to ensure that South African citizens‘ rights are truly promoted, protected and respected. We understand the importance of meeting the needs of the people, for every delay on our part and the part of the state is dignity denied.

I would like to refer to the hon Ndlangisa from the Eastern Cape. You are talking about the caring government when the economy of the country is being compromised by the Guptas. Where are your caring values? Your caring government does not care when the economy of the country that could give jobs to the youth is being compromised by the Guptas. I thank you.


Moh T K MAMPURU: Mohl Modulasetulo wa Ngwako, Tona ya rena le Leloko la Komitiphethiši la ka la Limpopo, Mme Makhurupetša, ba gotšwa Kapa Bohlabela, dikemedi tšeo di kgethegilego ka moka, maloko a Lekgotla la Bosetšhaba la Diporofense, dumelang. Tona, e re ke thome pele ka gore Bouto ye ya Ditekanyetšo ye re a e thekga ka gore ge o tlile komiting go re hlalosetša gore naa maano a gago ke eng, re bula ditsebe tše tša rena ra theeletša gore maikemišetšo a kgoro ya gago ke eng.


Labobedi e re ke leboge Molekgotlaphethiši, Mme Makhurupetša. Re humane pego ye e tšwago go Tona ya gore mašeleng ao ba kilego ba le abela wona le a šomišitše gabotse. Re a go leboga, swara o tiiše. Ke hlaloša le gore ka ngwaga wa 2016 kua Limpopo, Mme Makhurupetša o kgonne go thopa sebjana sa Diyuniti tša Bodulo tša Setšhaba (Community Residential Units). Re a leboga, swara o tiiše. Re boa gape re re ka Tlhabollo ye e Kopantšhitšwego ya Kantoro ya Mopresidente ye Kaonekaone (Best Integrated Presidential Development) le gona o thopile sefoka. Šoma o tiiše mme, re a tseba ka moka gore mo mosadi a etilego pele go a bonagala.


Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister of Human Settlements, other Ministers present, hon Deputy Minister in absentia and other Deputy Ministers if they are here, hon members and special delegates, ladies and gentlemen. Today marks the 51st anniversary of the Day of Affirmation Address, also known as the ―Ripple of Hope‖ Speech that Senator Robert F Kennedy gave to the National Union of South African Students members at the University of Cape Town, on 6 June 1966, on the University‘s Day of Reaffirmation of Academic and Human Freedom. In his address, Senator Kennedy emphasised the importance of human rights and the state‘s responsibility with regard thereto.


Today, with this budget, we are also affirming the rights and values enshrined in the Constitution. And the most obvious way is to make resources available, like financial resources. As the ANC we thus support this budget.


Ka ge ke šetše ke hlalositše, o se ke wa fela pelo, Tona. Leeto le e sa le le letelele.


Service delivery is not an event, it‘s a process and it is continuous. You will build houses even in the coming years – in the future. One of these values is human dignity, as hon Thandi Mpambo- Sibhukwana has alluded. I agree with this one, Thandi. In the case of S v Makwanyane and Another, the Constitutional Court Judge O‘Regan had this to say regarding dignity and I quote:

The importance of dignity as a founding value of the new Constitution cannot be overemphasised. Recognising a right to dignity is an acknowledgement of the intrinsic worth of human beings: human beings are entitled to be treated as worthy of respect and concern. This right therefore is the foundation of


many of the other rights that are specifically entrenched in the Bill of Rights.

It is on the basis of the values such as human dignity that our Constitution provides for the socioeconomic rights. It recognises these rights to be on the same level as civil and political rights. However, it places internal limitations on most aspects of these rights, to restrict the obligations placed on the state. That‘s why there is a proviso, ―subject to available resources" or ―through reasonable measures‖ in most of the sections dealing with socioeconomic rights in the Constitution.

One of these socioeconomic rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights is the right to housing. In this regard, section 26(1) provides that everyone has the right to have access to adequate housing. The obligation is thus placed on the state, albeit within its available resources to ensure progressive realisation of this right. This is the basis or reason for the existence of this Ministry. In other words the primary purpose of the Ministry of Human Settlements is the implementation of the constitutional mandate that everyone has the right to have access to adequate housing.


In the past 23 years, South Africa‘s so-called RDP housing project has delivered more than three million units, which is the largest government-subsidised housing project in the world. This is thanks to the ANC-led government which is intended to ensure that our people get their dignity back which they were robbed of by the apartheid regime. This is a fact and it is beyond dispute.

In my province of Limpopo, when delivering his state of the province address in February, Premier Chupu Mathabatha made mention of the intensification of the programme to reduce the housing backlog and restore the dignity of Limpopo‘s people. He said, and I quote:

In this financial year as a province we have managed to build

9 561 rural housing units. In the same period we have also managed to build 211 disaster housing units. An additional
286 abandoned housing units were rectified, completed and handed over to the beneficiaries.

I am a witness to that, hon Minister. Premier Mathabatha stated that this was a milestone achievement given the challenges the provincial government had in the past two years that impeded them from delivering houses. He gave the undertaking that over the coming five


years the focus would be on the programme to upgrade informal settlements around mining towns.


Re ka leboga kudu ge re ka bona kua Tubatse ... ka gobane yo mongwe le yo mongwe o nyaka go ipona a dula kua Tubatse, Tona. Re bona batho ba nyaka go dula kua Lephalale; ge le ka re thuša la hlabolla mafelo a go swana le ao re ka thaba le ge e le gore tlhohlo ke ye re hlwago re e bolela ya go epa diminerale ntle le tumelelo - moo e lego gore batho ba tsene ka malapeng a batho, ba re ba nyaka go bona ba kgona go iphediša.


This we applaud and want the ANC-led government to continue doing. However, a persistent backlog in issuing title deeds, estimated to be more than 900 000 , mars these successes. This, Minister, you should resolve as a matter of urgency. Thank you very much because in your speech you have indicated that you will deal with this matter.

The transfer of title deeds is imperative to unlock value for home owners. The importance of the title deed is often seen as an asset against which homeowners can raise secured financing. When you have


a title deed theoretically means that you can raise finance using the property as collateral. In practice, the most immediate benefit of a title deed are, for example, being able to leave your property to your children or spouse in the event of death, reducing conflict and contestation. Other benefits are being able to extend the house and knowing that the property will remain yours and being able to move house and officially transfer the property. This means that the RDP house may not always be seen as wealth but it is an important asset.

However, the RDP owners still encounter problems with the banks which do not have an appetite to grant them loans using the RDP houses as security. We therefore appeal to the Ministry to intervene in this respect. Another issue that we would like the Ministry to look into is the issue of lack of land for human settlements. This issue was a common thread in the recent protests we have seen over housing. In Johannesburg, the protesters in Eldorado Park, Ennerdale and Klipspruit were clear that they were not only protesting for RDP houses, but also for land where they can build their own houses.

Here in Cape Town, a group of Khayelitsha backyarders orchestrated a large land occupation in Cape Town three weeks ago fighting for land to build houses. The backyarders say they are tired of renting and


living with their parents, while a large piece of land has been empty for years.

In the recent Constitutional Court judgment in the matter between a landlord and tenant regarding eviction Judge Madlanga quoted these words that are reported to have been uttered by an old man, Mr Petros Nkosi, at a community meeting in the then Eastern Transvaal, and I quote:

The land, our purpose is the land; that is what we must achieve. The land is our whole lives: we plough it for food; we build our houses from the soil; we live on it; and we are buried in it. When the whites took our land away from us, we lost the dignity of our lives: we could no longer feed our children; we were forced to become servants; we were treated like animals. Our people have many problems; we are beaten and killed by the farmers; the wages we earn are too little to buy even a bag of mielie meal. We must unite together to help each other and face the Boers. But in everything we do, we must remember that there is only one aim and one solution and that is the land, the soil, our world.


These words were actually said in isiSwati and translated. I can only imagine the tone and the emotions within which they were spoken. This would in all likelihood be the same tone that we witness from hon Nyambi and hon Dlamini when they debate in isiSwati in this House. And I have no doubt that Mr Nkosi‘s tone was more emotive and robust than hon Nyambi‘s and Dlamini‘s tones as he was angry of being dispossessed of his land. This shows how important the issue of land is as well as how intrinsic it is to human dignity. However, it seems other people take this issue for granted. For instance, here in Cape Town - the Western Cape Province in general, people were being evicted from properties and no alternative accommodation was provided. Some of these people have young children and yet no sympathy is shown to these vulnerable sections of our society. This shows how heartless some people can be. Thandi, this you know. In my language there is a saying that goes ...


... ―Motho a lla, kgomo ya lla, feta kgomo o sware motho, mafetakgomo ke moriri o a hloga. [Disego.] Ke segagešo, le ge o ka ba le dilo ka moka ga tšona, ge o ka se hlokomele motho, ga o selo. [Tsenoganong.] Ke a leboga. Re a e thekga Bouto ye ya Ditekanyetšo, Tona.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I am informed that there is a technical problem with interpreting. I am also advised that the technical team is busy attending it.

Ms B T MATHEVULA: Chairperson, the EFF rejects Budget Vote 30 of the Department of Human Settlement. Just a few weeks ago, residents of Eldorado Park in Ennerdale, Gauteng, started protesting over the lack of housing. The new Mayor of Johannesburg, Herman Mashaba, said that he has inherited a city with over 300 000 official housing backlog. In one block of flats in Eldorado Park Extension 8, there are about 23 people living together in a two-bedroom flat. This is after 23 years of visionless leadership by the ANC.

In March, residents of Section 4 of Gugulethu embarked on what later turned into violent protests also due to lack of adequate housing for the people. These are just examples of thousands of protests every year which are evidence of growing frustrations of our people at government ineptitude and corruption. Today, over 16% of South Africans live in informal settlements. The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa placed an obligation on the state to provide access to adequate housing for its citizens. There are many reasons for this, chief amongst is a lack of visionary planning from


our political leaders in the misruling party. In their planning, the ANC does not think much about migration of people from rural to urban areas often in search of jobs and the unbundling of households as people set up their own homes, often in shacks.

The confluence of migrations and shack lands is turning housing a provision into a moving target is illustrated starkly in North West. The number of informal dwellings surged to 21% from 12,9% between 2002 and 2014. Our human settlement strategy must be enabling to our broader developmental aspirations as a nation. The 2006 national spacial development perspective developed by the government policy co-ordination and advisory service was correct in observing that 26 locations represent the engines of the South African economy, home to 77% of all people living under minimum level in the country, 84% of the total population and generating 95% of the national gross value added.

We need to respond to this and diversify development to ensure that we have a countrywide development framework that should decentralise development, instead of focusing only on apartheid created cities that absorbed labour from less development areas. Continue further to do this would lead to department to making strategy incorrect decisions year after year, such as your commitment in your Medium


Term Strategic Framework of upgrading 2 200 informal settlements and ensure that 750 000 households benefit from informal settlement upgrading programmes. We should rather aim for a complete eradication of informal settlements.

Informal settlements are a glorified labour concentration camps meant to further dehumanise our people and kill off any inspiration they may have of leading flourishing lives. With this understanding, R33,4 billion Budget would be enough if housing provision was understood as a critical part of broader development of our country. If it is not grossly enough, it will never be enough because the focus is already on congested cities that face overpopulation and we should expect very soon a societal explosion which we shall not be able to deal with. The EFF rejects this Budget Vote. Thank you, Chair.

Ms M MAKHURUPETJE (Limpopo): Chairperson, members of the NCOP, Minister of Human Settlement, Deputy Minister in absentia, MEC for Human Settlements in Mpumalanga, and guests present here, good afternoon, ...


... Inhlikanhi (Good afternoon) ... Ndi Masiari,



It gives me pleasure to partake in this policy debate on an important month such as this - a month dedicated to the development of young people in our country.

The celebration of this year‘s youth coincides with the all important 100 year anniversary of the great stalwart of our liberation struggle, comrade Oliver Reginald Tambo. Tambo was not only a youth leader during his time but as well a great organiser and internationalist who rallied the support of the entire globe against the corrosive system of apartheid.

In honouring the lives of those young people who paid ultimate price for freedom, it will never be enough for us to merely celebrate their achievements without joining the crescendo of voices against the renewed episodes of violence committed against our women and children. What we see happening today against children and women is certainly not what Oliver Reginald Tambo, Govern Mbeki, Walter Sisulu and Nelson Mandela, Winnie Madikizela Mandela and other women struggle fighters, and others who hoped for.

As a country, we did not toil for so long in the trenches only for our lives to be butchered by shameless perverts who hunger for blood


and more blood. In the name of freedom, let us stand firm together and say ―No‖ to the massacre of women and children in our country. In the name of Karabo Mokoena, and others who died in the hands of these criminals.

We will continue to build human settlements of the future where our children can play safely in the streets and women can walk freely during the night. This is the ultimate vision of the ANC government on human settlements. We want to build today a future where our people can shop, school, play, worship and work in healthy and safe environments free from crime, squalor and grim.

In pursuit of this vision, in the Limpopo Legislature, we tabled a R1,3 billion human settlements budget that seeks to build on the successes achieved over the past two years as a result of the implementation of our turnaround strategy.

As the Minister, as well as the members of the NCOP are aware, Limpopo had some serious challenges relating to human settlements delivery in the two financial years of 2013-14 and 2014-15. The challenge in the main, related to the irregular procurement of R900 million low-cost houses followed by the withholding of the human settlements grant and subsequent intervention by National Treasury.


During that period Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, Human Settlements delivery in the province had taken a downward spiral dive to an extent that housing delivery in the province yielded zero houses, in 2013-14 and only 2 065 housing units which equal 20% in 2014-15 financial year. Even though our department was not under section 100, the low housing delivery capacity at the time was compounded by the declaration of section
100 on our province.

Chairperson, we are happy that, the province has since turned the corner as a result of the implementation of a multi-pronged turnaround strategy that was facilitated by the task team led by the provincial department of Cogta and supported by provincial Treasury, Limpopo Economic Development Agency, Leda, and the National Department of Human Settlements.

In the main, our turnaround strategy was anchored around forward planning with four pillars which includes, beneficiary management, geo-technical reports, foundation designs, partnership with contractors, preferred material suppliers, and contract management.

On beneficiary management, we involve processing of beneficiaries of the housing subsidy system that all approved beneficiaries are


allocated to an individual contractor in a particular municipality, classified per village. In the geotechnical reports and foundation designs this strategy compels the National Home Builders Registration Council, NHBRC, to deploy its Geological Engineers alongside contractors to conduct test pits on site. Then they can recommend and give the contractor the most appropriate foundation designs to work on immediately.

Partnership with contractor‘s preferred material supplier seeks to enable contractors with limited financial resources to conclude cession agreement with their preferred material supplier such as big hardware stores, brickyards, steel merchants, etc.

On our contract management strategy ensures stringent contract management with enforceable punitive clauses in the event of poor performance while rewarding those performing contractors. As a matter of principle, we are now assessing contractor performance on a weekly basis to ensure that those contractors who chronically fail to perform as per their promised delivery schedules loose out on their units which we then subsequently reallocate to performing contractors. In worse case scenarios, we even terminate non- performing contractors and reallocate their entire units to other contractors in the database.


The appointment of Ombudsman by the Minister of the Human Settlements Ombudsman is a welcome move that will no doubt help those of our contractors with housing beneficiaries who are aggrieved by the system.

As part of forward planning and measures to deal with challenges of procurement, we have now enlisted contractors on a three-year contractor database which is updated on an annual basis against which we are able to allocate annual units to contractors without having to go through a lengthy supply chain management process every year.

Hon Chairperson, let me say that, judging only by the extent of our performance over the past two years, we can say with no fear of contradiction that Cogta is on an upward mobility and there is no looking back. Evidence abound to prove that solid work is being done to restore the dignity of the people and those who are homeless in our province.

From that humble beginning of zero houses delivering in 2013-14, Limpopo now occupies the top spot in housing delivery in the country at 105% or 13 901 units against the target of 13 290 with over


R1,5 billion spent by the end of 2016-17 financial year. This achievement is only followed only by the Western Cape at 102%.

We therefore, can now firmly say that the challenges we experienced in human settlements are now a thing of the past. We remain resolute to deliver even more quality housing to our communities during this financial year and beyond.

In our endeavour to integrate human settlements closer to where our people live, we have in this financial year, planned to build more than 9 956 homes for the people of our province. These homes are set to benefit almost 40 000 beneficiaries. Out of these housing units,
8 406 are low cost Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP houses, 250 are community residential units at Marapong in Lephalale
400 are emergency housing assistance across the province, 100 are enhanced people housing project, 500 are blocked and 300 are financed linked individual subsidy programme in Northam and Bendor.

Provision of housing for our military veterans is long overdue. In Limpopo province, there is a total of 411 people in the national database of military veterans who are in need of housing. The target for this programme in 2017-18 financial year is 200 units with a budget of R22 million while 150 units are under construction and


some are at the roof level now and we will ensure that by the end of the financial year the 350 units are completed.

Chairperson, a bold move we have made is the targeted allocation of units for women contractors and the youth owned enterprises as directed by Ministers and Members of the Executive Committee, MinMEC. In our allocation we will ensure that for women contractors not less than 30% is allocated and for young entrepreneurs not less than 20% is allocated respectively. This will ensure that we open up the sector to previously disadvantaged persons.

Based on the Breaking New Ground Policy Framework, our department is implementing integrated mega projects on land parcels procured over the past years. These are big projects that are properly planned to be self-sufficient in providing sustainable housing and socioeconomic opportunities to communities.

In her budget vote, the Minister did make mention of catalytic projects that are seen as a new approach to ensure that South Africa becomes a construction site. As a province, we have identified 9 projects as catalytic projects located in the provincial growth points and special economic zones.


We have to date appointed contractors for implementation of internal engineering services at Rhinoridge with has 900 units, in Musina Local Municipality and Bela-Bela Extension 25, with 500 units in Bela-Bela Local Municipality. The projects are expected to be completed and handed over to the respective municipalities by December 2017.

In addition, township establishment is in progress at Ha-

Mawasha in Tzaneen and Burgersfort Ext 54, 58, 71 and 72. The process of appointing developers is underway for Altoostyd Phase 1, Nirvana & Ivydale Ext 35, Mokopane Ext 20 and Polokwane Ext

We want to take this opportunity to thank all members of the NCOP for the good work that they have done supporting us by making sure that every time they come and assess our work.


Re re le ka moso; swarang bjalo ka lebaka la gore ka nnete re ithuta ka lena.



Minister, you have done a good job by supporting us as well as your department‘s director-general and everyone. Let us continue working together side by side to build a future for our children today. We support the budget vote. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, we wish the hon P C Samka a quick recovery. She is not feeling well so we are going to give her the torture to come and stand in front of us. We move on to the MEC for human settlements in Mpumalanga, the hon Mashile.


NCOP; Minister of Human Settlements, Mme [Ms} Sisulu; my colleague, MEC for Cooperative Governance, Human Settlements and Traditional Affairs, COGHSTA, in Limpopo; my colleague in the NCOP and my comrades indeed, good afternoon.

There shall be houses, security and comfort. The ANC once resolved this many years ago. It‘s quite exciting to hear people speaking about this matter so passionately, that‘s very good.

The department has re-emphasized the responsibility each citizen of this country has, in terms of our Bill of Rights. It is for this reason that we are prioritizing the empowerment of our people to


understand that their own constructive efforts are an essential part of their own development.

Julius, the real Julius Nyerere once said that ―you cannot develop the people; you must allow people to develop themselves.‖

Our radical policy on integrated human settlements intends to reverse the apartheid spatial damage characterised by inhuman dwellings without basic sewer, water and electricity infrastructure.

The many protests we see today are as a result of the non-ownership of those dwellings, called houses, which were built by the apartheid regime.

Our main focus as the Government is to issue title deeds to the rightful beneficiaries of houses pre 1994 to date – as the Minister has well alluded - including my province Mpumalanga.

With the new developments, we have planned to issue title deeds as soon as the beneficiary is approved and allocated a stand; no time to wait until the end of the house‘s construction.


The non-issuing of title deeds by the apartheid government has been instrumental to the illegal occupation and selling of the government subsidized houses.

We urge our people not to fall into a trap of selling what rightfully belongs to them and cause their families to be destitute in their land of birth, eroding their dignity.

The Human Settlements Department has introduced, in the province, the Social Enterprise Development Model that is aimed at maximising the involvement of communities by empowering them and to create employment.

The first phase of this initiate will involve the provision of housing and associated infrastructure within prioritised municipalities, namely: Nkomazi, Govan Mbeki, Dr JS Moroka, eMalahleni, Steve Tshwete, Bushbuckridge and Thembisile Hani respectively.

Community Cooperatives and Small, Medium and Macro Enterprises, SMMEs, would have to produce construction materials such as bricks for building and those for paving, window and door frames, which


will be purchased by the contractors within those municipalities where we are developing the infrastructure.

These projects are valued at about R435 million and the value of material to be sourced from local SMMEs and Co-Operatives is budgeted at R99 million. This, indeed, is a radical economic transformation that we‘ve been calling all along.

The newly established Human Settlements Development Bank by the Minister is indeed an asset that our struggling Black entrepreneurs have been waiting for, for so many years. What a visionary leadership from our Minister, may we please give her a round of applause. [Applause.]

As a responsive and caring government of the people, by the people and for the people, we continue to take care of our military veterans, irrespective of their regiment.

We have negotiated for those military veterans who were approved for the 40m2 government subsidized houses to accept that. And we‘re upgrading the houses to the 5Om2as is currently prescribed.


Over the coming weekend we shall handover 21 completed 50m2 to our military veterans. [Applause.]

Where else does one find a national-, provincial, and local government working so smoothly with each other through the inter- governmental relations programme? For those who do not know, only the ANC-led government can provide such a good working environment.

We are looking at empowering our women, youth and persons living with disability contractors through our social enterprise development model. We believe that our women have acquired the required skill to do the work. By doing so, we will be supporting the whole nation. When you empower a woman you indeed empower the nation. The Minister has already said that. I do not want to say it is always true that if you empower a man you empower an individual.

We have also realized that a number of government employees struggle to obtain finances to build their own houses. We welcome the up scaling of FLISP, Finance Linked individual Subsidy Programme, to qualifying beneficiaries including the Government Employee Housing Scheme. The province will intensify community izimbizo whereby we‘ll be interacting with communities and all other stakeholders to


publicise this important programme. This we will do together with our councillors and our traditional leaders in our province.

The creation of a credible database of those waiting for various government houses is welcomed. We welcome that Minister, that we‘ll have a transparent way of getting every person in our data. Working together with Executive Mayors and their Members of Mayoral Committees, MMCs, for Human Settlements and Planning, we have adopted a resolution where the beneficiary list of each ward will be signed by the Executive Mayor and be taken to Council for approval prior to it being submitted to the Department of Human Settlements for the final approval. This will make sure that all councillors, the community and everybody know which numbers are allocated to them.

We have built the houses for our communities. We are moving towards integrated human settlements with all the social amenities. We welcome and appreciate the launching of the biggest Social Housing development on 1 April 2017 by the Minister and our President, Jacob Zuma. In Mpumalanga, the biggest Social Housing Development of Klarinet is one of our prides as the Minister has correctly said; it‘s one of the catalytic projects.


We have since identified about six catalytic projects in the province; and hon Dlamini, as you once said, in Mbombela we have identified a project of rocky drift in Dingwell, Mathafeni precinct as well as the Hazyview, integrated human settlements that we have identified.

Around Gert Sibande District Municipality we have identified a project called the Ridge View proper and Ridge View Extension 1 in Dipaleseng Local Municipality. Around Nkomazi Local Municipality we have indentified Malalane and at Steve Tshwete Local municipality we identified Rietkuil.

There are a number of projects that we will be rolling in in the catalytic, as you have alluded Minister.

On the other hand, the Siyanqoba Social Housing Development will house about 8950 mixed developments when it‘s complete. Both these projects are situated at the fast growing local municipality of Emalahleni. Amidst the rapid growth of the municipality, the list of indigents is growing by the day due to closing of mines where people were working. This puts the strain on the municipality and on the infrastructure of the province.


We believe that we have and we continue to deliver our mandate as the government, but, some of our colleagues in this house – as I‘ve listened to them this afternoon – they seem to not appreciate. May I advice them to and open the book of Habakkuk 2: 5, it sums it up very easy, it says: ―Greedy people are proud and restless - like death itself, they are never satisfied.‖ That is what I‘ll ask them to do. Siyaqhuba [We‘re working] as this government; as the people of the province have mandated me to support this budget vote of the Minister. Siyabonga [Thank you] Minister. Thank you very much, Chairperson.

Mnu M KHAWULA: Sihlalo ohloniphekile, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, kunodaba esengiluphakamise kulomnyango kuyona leNdlu iminyaka ilandelana. Kuyadabukisa ukuthi kubonakala umnyango ungaluthatheli izinyathelo okusho ukuthi wudaba olungabalulekile emnyangweni nakuba luthinta ukuhlukumezeka kwabantu. Kunabantu abasuswa wumnyango kanye nomasipala weTheku ngo-2010 besuswa ngasesiteshini kwaMnyandu eMlaza. Laba bantu babesuselwa ukuba kuzolungiswa inkundla yemidlalo i-King Zwelithini Stadium ilungiselelwa ukuba isetshenziswe amazwe ayizicukuthwana ayesivakashele ngo-2010 ukuzogenda ibhola.
Bakwamukela lokhu abantu bakithi ngezinhliziyo ezimhlophe qhwa. Bashushumbiswa baya kohlaliswa koLindela ema-transit Camps


ngasemadanyini agcina indle, ngaphandle kwaseMalukazi, maqondana ne- Unit T e-17.

Benikezwa isithembiso ukuthi izindlu ezizolandela ukwakhiwa babeyobekwa ekuqaleni ukuze babe nezindlu ezithi bona. Mhlonishwa, kuze kube namhlanje labaya bantu abakoLindela eMlaza kanye nakoLindela abangaphandle kancane kwaseSiphingo abakaze banakwe nguHulumeni. Izindlu ziyakhiwa ngapha nangapha bona basale bencela izithupha. Okudabukisa kakhulu yisimo sendawo abahlala kuyona.
Iphunga elilaphaya lixaka ukwenza njengoba labo Lindela babekwa eduze kwamadamu agcina indle. Isimo sikagesi wakhona sinobungozi njengoba kugcwele izinyokanyoka. Isimo semigwaqo edabula phakathi kwemizi sibi. Kanjalo nokuhamba kwezingane uma ziya esikoleni kuyadabukisa njengoba loluyahlelo kwakufanele kube yinto yesikhashana. Nokho ke isikhatshana sesiphenduke iminyaka ngeminyaka. Kunesabelomali lapha sezimali esabelwa ukuthuthukisa amadolobha ayekade enezimayini phambilini. Naso ngisakhala ngaso ukuthi kwenziwa yini amadolobha ayekade enezimayini KwaZulu-Natal wona angahlomuli kulesi sabelo.

Kepha ezinye izifundazwe zihlomule ziphindaphindwa. Lapha ngibala amadolobha a-KwaZulu-Natal afana ne-Dundee, i-Durnacol, i-Newcastle, i-Glencoe, i-Vryheid namanye amadolobha. Ayibalwe phela neKwaZulu-


Natal kulesi sabelo ngoba nayo inawo amadolobha ezimayini. [mining towns] Kukhona lesi sabelo esengikhale ngaso yonke iminyaka kwaze kwasha izwi, i-urban settlement development grant. Lesi sabelo sihlomulisa kuphela amadolobha amakhulu [metros] ukuze alwisane nokuqhibuka kwemijondolo. Lesi sikhalo sami sisekuthini iKwaZulu- Natal iyanyundelwa yilesi sabelo ngoba inabantu abaninji kanye nedolobha elikhulu, i-metro eyodwa kuphela. Lokhu kusho ukuthi kuhlomula iTheku kuphela kepha abe ekhona namanye amadolobha amakhulu kwisifundazwe nawo anenkinga efanayo yokuqhibuka kwemijondolo. Lana ngibala amadolobha afana noMsunduzi, uMhlathuze, i-Newcast|e, uMnambithi, i-Port Shepstone namanye amadolobha.
Okwesibili okuyinkinga kulesi sabelo ukunganakwa kwezinombolo zobungako kwabantu esifundazweni. Buka iMpumalanga Koloni [Eastern Cape] enabantu abangaphansi kweKwaZulu-Natal ngenani kodwa ihlomula kabili ngoba ine-Buffalo City ne-Nelson Mandela Metro. I-Mpumalanga Province ine-Mbombela engahlomuli lutho ngoba ayiyona i-metro. I- Limpopo ine-Polokwane engahlomuli lutho ngoba ayiyona i-metro. I- North West ine-Mahikeng ne-Rustenburg abanga hlomuli lutho ngoba abawona ama-metro. I-Northern Cape ine-Kimberly engahlomuli lutho ngoba ayiyona i-metro kepha izinselelo zibe zifana.

Nalu olunye udaba. Kayibhekisiswe indaba yomasipala abehluleka ukusebenzisa inkece ize ibuyele emuva behlulwa wukwakha izindlu


kepha abantu bebe bezidinga izindlu. Lokhu akwemukelekile nhlobo nhlobo . Iqembu leNkatha Yenkululeko lithi mabakhelwe abantu izindlu inkece isebenze iphele. Futhi uma sezakhiwe izindlu, uhla lwabantu abangena kuzona makungabi ngolukheta iphela emasini. Abantu abafakwe ngangokwezidingo ebeziqoshiwe kungayiwa ngokuthi ubani owazana kancono nobani. Imikhonyovu yezindlu yiyo lena esidalela amatoyi toyi anganqandeki ezweni. Ezindaweni ezisemakhaya eziphethwe ubukhosi bomdabu, omasipala mababambisane nobuholi bomdabu kanye nezinduna uma kuzokwakhiwa izindlu. Lokhu kufanele kwenzeke kusuka phansi amakhosi angagitshezwa i-staff inqola esigijima abekade engayazi ukuthi isuke ikuphi. Ngiyathokoza Sihlalo.


recognise you Chairperson Ms Modise and the Minister for Human Settlements.




and hon members, the vision of the Western Cape government is to ensure that residents have access to liveable, safe, resilient and multi opportunity settlements. It is because of this reason that we


have allocated more than R2,3 billion of the R2,5 billion appropriated for the 2017-18 financial year on housing development. If you did not hear me the first time, let me say it differently.
More than two-thirds of our budget allocation goes into the development of housing; so that our residents have a roof over their heads. It is estimated that annually a 100 000 people move to the Western Cape because they are looking for better opportunities and these include work, schooling and housing opportunities. One would therefore think that the budget allocation for housing development will be amended, so that more qualifying individuals are also given an opportunity. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Because we are committed to accelerating delivery, while also promoting social cohesion through the development of integrated and sustainable human settlements in an open society for all, we have prioritised three areas. They are, firstly, to direct more resources to the Upgrading of Informal Settlements Programme, UISP, in order to improve the living conditions of people in informal settlements and in backyards, who continue to wait for houses. Secondly, to increase affordable housing, to provide shelter for people who earn too much to qualify for free subsidised houses, and too little to qualify for bonds. And thirdly, to prioritise the most deserving people in relation to the allocation of free Breaking New Ground, BNG, houses.


After conducting an enumeration study in twelve informal settlements in the Southern Corridor, along the N2, it placed us in a position to ensure better living conditions for residents in 18 997 households in Vukuzenzele, Gxagxa, Kanana, Lusaka, Europe, Barcelona, Hlazo Village, KTC, Tsunami, TRA 5.1, Thabo Mbeki and Kosovo. Furthermore, we have already started upgrading 60 informal settlements in non-Metro areas. A further 60 will also be improved by 2019, bringing the total to 120 non-Metro informal settlements which would have been upgraded. Besides these upgrades we have also commenced with construction on a number of catalytic projects, which includes among others Vlakkeland and Dal Josafat in Paarl, where
6 000 opportunities will be made available.

Trans Hex in Worcester can expect 8 000 opportunities. Thembalethu, Wilderness and Syferfontein in George will together provide 15 000 opportunities, Saldanha Bay 1 400, Louis Fourie Corridor in Mossel Bay 3 000 and DeNovo in Stellenbosch, 2 300. With all of these developments, which also includes the Southern Corridor Integrated Human Settlement Programme, it will bring about, more than 108 000 opportunities. With everything that we are doing, our aim is to contribute to the National Development Plan, NDP, especially national Outcome 8, because this outcome seeks to among others, address the accelerated delivery of shelter opportunities and


improve access to basic services. The fact is that we are doing better than all the other provinces.

Let us stay with making housing opportunities available to residents. Military veterans have sacrificed the best part of their lives to ensure that we are free as a nation. They had to give up their youth, in some cases their entire families and many other things. The ANC cannot even get the database in order, expecting the veterans to ensure that the database is up to date. The recent media reports that military veterans have expressed their anger and frustrations about not receiving their promised houses and that they have not received the financial assistance to pay their bonds, as promised, is truly unfortunate, but not at all surprising. The reality is empty promises that are given to the military veterans.

We are still the only province to have handed homes to the military veterans. In fact just this morning I visited the project in Eerste River and I am pleased to say that more veterans will soon be able to move into their new homes. Did I mention that we do not pay lip service in the Western Cape? We deliver houses. One of the most basic services that every individual deserves is the right to quality and improved sanitation. The Western Cape, yet again might I add is a leader in this regard. The latest General Household Survey


released by Statistics SA on 31 May 2017 shows that almost 95% of the residents in this province have access to improved sanitation. The other provinces such as Mpumalanga with its 67,4%, Limpopo with its 57,1% access do not even get close to the national average of 80,9%. [Applause.]

Our reality in the Western Cape is that we are facing the worst drought since 1904. This requires that we should start identifying and finding innovative ways to address sanitation issues because the drought will undoubtedly affect sanitation. This also gives us an opportunity to, at various government levels, and interdepartmentally, to co-operate and find these solutions. The Western Cape is committed to enabling a resilient, sustainable, quality and inclusive living environment that each and every resident can be proud of and enjoy. This is why we do not believe in only building houses, but to build communities.

Allow me to conclude with the following comparison, between the 2009-10 and 2015-16 financial years, the Eastern Cape, which is being led by the ANC of course, targeted to deliver 132 705 housing opportunities. They could only get to 79 625. Between 2009 and 2013 alone, the Western Cape already delivered 94 000 houses and sites. In the Western Cape we do not build houses ... [Interjections.]



out the speaker. You are protected Ma‘am continue.

Ms M MASEKO: I thank you very much, Chairperson. In conclusion, I am saying that, in the Western Cape we do not build houses, we build communities. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr L B GAEHLER: Hon Chairperson, the UDM supports the policy on Budget Vote number 38 on Human Settlements. Hon Minister, the establishment of the Development Bank is noted with great appreciation. Indeed, we believe that this important development will go a long way in addressing the stringent barriers that are major stumbling blocks, in particular for the blacks, from successfully entering the property sector industry. In this regard, we wish the bank success in the strategic task of transforming the property sector industry and we are certain that more will be done in the areas of knowledge, access and affordability in this sector.

The fact is, people lack sufficient knowledge and access to strategic markets when they want to sell their properties. As result, they get short changed by the elite that dominate the industry.


Whilst we welcome and appreciate government's increase on the transfer fees, the conveyance industry remains a monopoly of few and is prohibitive to new entrants. More work has to be done in making this area more transformed and friendly.

Once again, the UDM says forward ever with your determination to fight for the land so that our people can enjoy their right to access to adequate housing. The court action you are involved in, to contest the insensible sale of land, to the rich and foreign individuals in Sea Point, needs to be uploaded.

There is a great need to build internal capacity in the Department of Human Settlements. Attending to this demand will help to ensure that officials are adequately trained on amongst others; contracting, town planning, and property management. Such internal capacity will improve service delivery; reduce outsourcing and dependency on consultants.

As we also welcome the commitment of the Minister to hand over all outstanding title deeds by the end of her term of office, we are equally sure that the realisation of this commitment will restore the dignity of our people. As you roll-out the title deeds, hon Minister, please consider the restrictive conditions that are placed


on title deeds of the Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, houses.

Lastly, hon Minister, whilst this matter may not severely fall on your desk; however, we wish to invite your office to make an urgent intervention. The residents of Qweqwe in Ward 33 of King Sabata Dalindyebo Municipality in Umtata, applied for the construction of
1 000 houses. The application was approved by the council on 19 of June 2014. The provincial Human Settlements Department, through the pen of the Head of Department and the MEC approved the same application on 5 November and 6 November 2014. These 1 000 units were to be catered for under the Rural Housing instrument; yet, to date, nothing has been built and the poor people are still waiting.

In closing, Minister, we welcome your commitment to develop all government land infrastructure so that people can buy land and build their own houses. This is a ... we welcome this and we hope this will be done.

Hon Chairperson, you will remember that prior 1994 a civil servant could buy a house in town. After 1994 it became hard for civil servant to buy houses because of the property that are expensive and are owned by the elite that are expensive. So, we welcome this hon


Minister, so that our people can also own land. That is what we call radical transformation. I thank you.

Cllr SOTASHE: Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, Chief Whip of the NCOP, congratulations on your appointment. We wish you all the best; Minister Sisulu, MEC present today, members of this august House, ladies and gentlemen we would like to congratulate the Minister on her leadership in this portfolio. Minister, your speech serves as a rallying call for urgent co-ordinated action between spheres of government in the delivery of integrated human settlements and spatial transformation of our cities.

As local government we heed to the call and renew our commitment to acting with you as part of a solution. We also appreciate the intergovernmental response to community protests. The recent community protest in Gauteng is bringing home two truths, which we must constantly remind ourselves of. The first one is the importance of listening to our people in their frustrations; not with excuses and dismissals; but with respect, empathy and action.

The second truth which we are reminded of time and again is that housing is not a stand alone issue. When our people are denied their constitutional right of access to adequate housing they are


frequently forced to stay in unsafe structures without security of tenure in areas rive with crime; living in situations which may lead to domestic violence; undermine educational outcomes and foster other social problems, such as drugs and gangs. As the Minister puts it artistically, homelessness breeds other social ills. The social, health, education and safety impacts become the problems of the municipality.

Minister, in your speech you emphasised that and I quote, ―Whatever our differences, our people come first‖. We could not agree with you more. We commend you, MEC Mashatile, mayor Mashaba and mayor Msimang for your visible and involved leadership to these community protests in Gauteng.

Your intergovernmental response to these community protests in Gauteng is the right approach because local governments requires the support of provincial and national government to address the real urgent and desperate needs of our communities. We have waited too long for basic services and access to housing.

At the same time Minister, national government and provinces cannot implement housing projects on their own. Local government is a necessary partner in the provision of bulk infrastructure, land,


town planning approvals and social facilitation. As we embark on these large scale catalytic projects around the country now more than ever, we need to work together with an intergovernmental legal and policy framework which respects different functions, resources and strengths of each sphere of government. The most important partnerships are underpinned by clear contracting so that roles and responsibilities are spelled out in context of respect and collaboration.

On imperatives of new urban agenda Minister, as we tackle the challenges before us in this sector we are also mindful of our intergovernmental commitments and obligations as spelled out in recent global agreements including the New Urban Agenda, Sustainable Development Goals, SDGs, and Addis Ababa Action Agenda. In his capacity as united cities and local government‘s President as a co- chair of United Nations High Level Independent Panel, assessing the effectiveness of the Habitat III, our President of the Pacific Star Communications, Inc, PacStar speaks of how the global development agenda places local government at the centre in the achievement of sustainable development and the delivery of integrated human settlement.


Minister, increasingly, the international consensus is telling us that devolution and location of built environment functions at the local level is critical to effectively manage urbanisation. It is our view that decentralisation of housing and human settlement function is a key lever for South Africa‘s implementation of the new urban agenda. If we are to localise both the New Urban Agenda and the SDGs this imperative to put local government front and centre in the planning and delivery of human settlements must be reflected in a revised framework for accreditation currently being drafted by the department.

Furthermore, in order for local government to respond to the imperatives of the New Urban Agenda and SDGs, local government and metropolitan municipalities especially, must play a more prominent role in our intergovernmental relation structures.

On Innovative Funding Frameworks Minister, another crucial imperative of the New Urban Agenda is the need to expand the scope, the depth and the nature of funding framework for the development in order to unlock more resources for local regional governments. These international agreements recognise that the current funding instruments are plainly inadequate to the achievement of our developmental goals. New funding approaches and solutions are


needed. The funding of catalytic projects in case is a casing point. No metropolitan municipalities hosting catalytic projects, face a challenge in that municipal infrastructure grant. It is insufficient to finance the bulk infrastructure requirements of these mega projects. We need to apply innovative, reform and collaborate in the development of funding framework for catalytic projects that addresses both the initial capital requirements as well as long term financing obligations placed on municipalities in terms of operations and maintenance of the bulk infrastructure down the road.

The South African Local Government Association, Salga, is working hard to explore how we can expand access by member municipalities to innovative financing solutions including pulled financing mechanism; social impact bonds as well as reforms to regulatory framework to enable more effective implementation of public private partnerships. We must also find means to leverage subsidies and transfers in the new ways including the use of capital grants to borrow.

Minister, on evictions and illegal occupations of land and buildings; as the Minister highlighted; urbanisation puts an enormous pressure on municipalities to provide services to an increasing population compelling municipalities to redirect


resources toward emergence accommodation and services and away from the planned bulk infrastructure investments.

In the absence of proper planning to address these population inflows and respond to the demand of affordable housing, we see an increase in incidences of unauthorised occupation of land and eviction in recent years which poses a mired of complex challenges for local government. We are currently under going intensive consultations with municipalities to develop specific proposals regarding amendments to the prevention of illegal evictions from Unlawful Occupation of Land Act, Act 19 of 1998. The proposed amendments will serve to create a more practical and conducive environment to municipalities to manage unauthorised invasion and evictions, thus improving their ability to plan and deliver integrated human settlements and effectively tackle the housing backlog in a manner in which balances the right and the land owners; the rights of occupiers and the sustainability of local government.

Given that the challenge of evictions and evasions is inevitable sits with local government, we appreciate the co-operation by the department in drafting the General Pier and Harbour Amendment Bill and we are looking forward to further collaborations to ensure effective reforms to the legislative framework on unlawful


occupation. As the Minister stated, we must ensure that land is used to benefit the greatest number of people.

On Human Settlement Legislation hon Minister, during 2016 we also worked closely with national department to consult with our member municipalities on critical issues to be assessed in a White Paper on Human Settlement. We hope to continue that fruitful partnership on policy issues when the new settlement legislation is crafted this year.

In conclusion hon Minister, we have heard your call as you stressed the urgency now more than ever for three spheres of government to work together to plan, fund, implement and maintain human settlement. What we are appealing Minister, count us in as Salga so that we can be able to overcome all these challenges that are facing our country. Thank you very much.

Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chair, I think it‘s by now at this stage clear that we have the praise singers here and those who are dedicated to oversight and the roll out of housing. In a four word of the annual performance plan of the Department of Human Settlement, the hon Minister declares that the government is committed to fulfil and


promote the New Urban Agenda as adopted in Habitat III in Quito. Quoting only from the one resolution 5:

By implementing programmes that redresses the way village, towns, cities and human settlements are planned, designed, financed, developed, governed and managed.

Acknowledging the problems that we have in housing and in municipalities in our country, but nowhere in the Annual Performance Plan, APP this reverberated into any action stating that New Urban Agenda has an impact on what we are going to do. It is also significant that the Minister has not completed the copy and paste job from the urban agenda to also include the desired outcome of the first portion of resolution 5 and that is:

The New Urban Agenda will help to end poverty and hunger in all its forms and dimensions, reduce inequalities, promote sustained, inclusive, and sustainable economic growth, achieve gender equality and the empowerment of all women and girls, in order to fully harness their vital contribution to sustainable development, improve human health and well-being, as well as foster resilience and protect the environment.


The question is why not? The current South African socioeconomic context most of the goals set in the urban agenda and in the National Development Plan will not be achieved by the two dates in the urban agenda, that‘s 2030 or even by 2050 when the world population is expected to nearly double.

The answer to the question may also be found in the inability of the government at all levels to properly plan and design human settlements in its generic context. Its no exception and is perhaps the most visible manifestation of the lack of proper planning where very little planning, even medium and long term planning is visible which impacts on the design, financing, development, governance, service delivery, maintenance and management of housing developments.

Looking at the problematic supply management system, a milieu has been created where a selected few tenderpreneurs in many developments are delivering inferior products at inflated costs with countless politicians competing with each other to also be part of the action - In the end, interference even in the appointment of local labour and with manipulation of the housing waiting lists.
Until such time that we adequately address appointment procedures of contractors for housing projects, we will continue to have


incomplete housing projects and agitated communities blocking housing developments.

The 2014, the Minister promised that 1,5 million new housing opportunities will be created by 2019 - This is nothing more than political rhetoric Minister. From the approximately 375 O00 units per year currently, about a third is being delivered — approximately
120 000 units are being delivered annually with only 110 000 being delivered in 2013-2014.

This is happening while the housing backlog is steadily increasing from 1,5 million in 1994 to over 2 million today. The cost of housing has continued to escalate at an unprecedented rate. The cost of subsidised units has risen from R12 500 per unit in 1994 to approximately R170 O00 per unit currently.

Hon Chair, what is required to revitalize South Africa‘s growing housing problem, including the required essential services and infrastructure, is a clean government with the political will and capacity for proper medium and long term planning, rooting out fraud and corruption, and ensuring an open and transparent tender system.


Now hon Chair, this will be rolled out by the first post ANC government in 2019. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson of Council, hon Minister of Human Settlements, Minister Sisulu, hon members and special delegates from the provinces and gusts at the gallery, let me greet you this afternoon and say, good afternoon.

Let me start of by addressing issues that were misplaced, starting with hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana. It‘s good that you are waiting for me. I just want to put the record straight. National government has a grant to develop houses. This grant is cascaded to provinces. There are municipalities like the Western Cape, they have accreditation.
They have applied for accreditation because they felt that they can be able to do things on their own. They can be able to stand on their own and deliver houses.

Now, it is surprising to me hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, when you come to this podium and say to the Minister, this has not been done. What is your metro doing with the grant because you are supposed to be using it as a metro or as a province? [Applause.]


Let me come to the hon member Maseko, who is Chairperson of Human Settlements in the Western Cape. I would advice hon member that you actually go and exercise your oversight properly. In terms of the figures that I have, it is untrue that the government led by the ANC has not done anything for Military Veterans. Let me give you the figures, Eastern Cape, for this current financial year has put aside R42 32 000. The Free State, has put aside R23 339 000. Gauteng has put aside R54 453 000. [Applause.] The Western Cape has put aside only R3 960 000.

Now, you tell me of these provinces who is not working. Now, you cannot come here and grandstand and say nothing has been done for the beneficiaries. Chairperson of Human Settlements, please go and conduct oversight properly. You know what? You have only allocated money to secure only 81 hectares to develop houses for black people in the Western Cape whereas other metros have gone to the extend of
300 hectares because they have the understanding that people need houses.

Now, tell me, in the Western Cape, what are you going to do with 81 hectares only for houses?


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, please, take your seat. Hon Julius, you are on your feet.

Mr J W W JULIUS: Chair, I just want to know whether hon Zwane will take a question on what metros they are governing.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, will you take a question?

Ms L L ZWANE: I will not.


Ms L L ZWANE: I will not because my metro has set aside money to secure 300 hecters to build houses, the metro only, not the province. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, please, take your seat. Hon Faber, you are on your feet, sir. [Interjections.] Hon Mpambo- Sibhukwana, there is a member on the floor. Hon Faber, sir.

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I just want to say hon Julius asks which metros they govern. I would like to know she take that question.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Faber may I rule on your not so well in order point of order. You cannot be delegated whether silently or metaphysically by the hon Julius to another member. [Interjections.] What is your point of order?

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, on the point of order, I will ask if the member will take a question.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, do you want to take a question?

Ms L L ZWANE: I have no time to waste, Chairperson. Thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: She say no, sir.

Ms L L ZWANE: Let me go back to the remarks by the hon Minister. [Interjections.] Firstly, hon Minister, we appreciate the fact that you did acknowledge in this august House that we have failed to develop or to transform the construction industry. It takes a very bold political leader of a department to acknowledge the shortcomings and the failures, not only did you acknowledge, but you also said. For that reason, you have created a Human Settlements Bank to ensure that the contractors are able to secure loans and


those that have service stands can also be able to get loans to build up their houses.

We also do appreciate the new innovation that we are bringing with, where you say that Human Settlements Department is going to have mobile units because if Mohammed will not go to the mountain, the mountain must come to Mohammed.

So, people are going to be able to access your department wherever the need is because there is going to be that mobility of your offices. We appreciate that. We also do appreciate the fact that you are creating an environment, a shift, where you say that you are going to assist those that cannot build houses for themselves because they don‘t have money. But you are going to create an enabling environment for those that can afford so that you can be able to stretch our resources further.

Let me go back to the Western Cape, or before I go there, we saw you Minister in the Johannesburg Metros, in Ennerdale, Eldorado Park, Parktown, where there were protests. You had to go there and rescue the situation as Minister from national government because their chicken had come home to roost. The metro was having a problem where wheels were coming of. So, you had to go and resuscitate and gets


closer to the people and talk to them and talk sense because it is only the ANC that can speak sense to the people in any case. [Interjections.] In Nelson Mandela, we have taken over. This year, there has been number of service delivery protests in Nelson Mandela Bay and residence from Kwanoxolo in Port Elizabeth took to the street.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane! Hon Zwane, please take your seat. Hon Mokwele, you are on your feet.

Ms T J MOKWELE: On a point of order, Chair.


Ms T J MOKWELE: I am requesting that the hon speaker must not mislead South Africa. People never and will never listen to the ANC. They are no longer listening to the ANC. They are actually fed up with the ANC even your members, the Congress of SA Trade Union, Cosatu, and whatever. They are no longer listening to you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mokwele! Hon Mokwele, take your seat. That‘s not a point of order at all. Proceed, hon member.



Nk L ZWANE: Uzomangala ukuthi abantu bayithanda kanjani i-ANC. Nguwena wedwa owazi ukuthi abantu abayithandi i-ANC. Abantu bayayithanda i-ANC yingakho ke i-ANC isabusa namanje. Isazobusa nangowezi-2019.


Let us go to Western Cape again. [Interjections.] In Western Cape



Ms L L ZWANE: ... Bromwell Street ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mokwele, don‘t drawn off the speaker. [Interjections.]

Ms L L ZWANE: ... in Woodstock, people there are facing evictions. The matter is in court because the government of this province is actually intending to evict those people. They have taken the matter to court and want to believe that the court is going to decide in their favour because we cannot be speaking of evictions at this spot


in time if we don‘t have alternative accommodation for the people that is suitable for them. [Interjections.]

In Tswane, chickens have come home to roost. In Tswane, residence in Itireleng Informal Settlement has taken to the streets to address their dissatisfaction with the current administration, their inability to provide houses in the area. [Interjections.] You have taken the metros, therefore deliver. [Interjections.] The ball is in your court. The people are protesting. There is no service delivery.

Minister, I want to commend the department for having centralised the whole issue of the beneficiary list. This has been very problematic where there has been alleged corruption at the level of councils and councillors implicated for the corruption.

Now that we have actually centralised it, it‘s going to spare the councillors of any blame that they favoured any particular individual to be able to get the houses, and also when we sat with the department, we discovered that the backyard dwellers have not registered or have not applied to be allocated houses. Therefore, we call upon them ...



Sicela abaqashile emajalidini ukuthi babhalise khona bazokwazi ukuba bangene ohlelweni lokuthi banikezwe izindlu. Siyakubonga loko.
Siyabonga ukuthi ...


... from 1994 up to now, the Department of Human Settlements has actually delivered 4,3 million units of houses. [Applause.] This includes free standing and locos houses. This includes rental stock. This includes in seeing to upgrading. People are taken care of. They have shelter above their heads because of this ANC-led government. [Interjections.]

The total units that have been delivered for Military Veterans is

5 600 to date. [Applause.] In actual facts, the department has actually gone beyond the amount of the value ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, please take your seat.


Moh T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke ne ke rata go botsa gore a mme o tla tsaya potso?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, will you take a question?


Ms L L ZWANE: When we go into the bus back home then I will take a question.


Ms T J MOKWELE: Because you know that there is no data for Military Veterans.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mokwele, take your seat.

Ms L L ZWANE: There is, you don‘t seat in the committee. In fact, the department has gone beyond the target that was good. There is information. If you want to be relevant, please come to the committee. Don‘t talk in the dark. [Interjections.] We also want to applaud ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, members. Order! [Interjections.] Order!

Ms L L ZWANE: Hon Hattingh said, we like to sing praises. We don‘t sing praises. We don‘t, but we have a tendency as ANC to give honour where honour is due. When the department has delivered, we say the department has delivered. When the department has not done well, we


say the department has not done well. So, we don‘t sing praises for anybody.

Hon Khawula, you know as much as I do ...


... ukuthi udaba lokungasebenzi kwezimali koMasipala abakhulu [Metros] zize zibuyele emuva ...


... it is because of capacity. The mere fact that in the first instance, ANC made allocations is an indication that the ANC-led government wants the people to get houses.

The issue of capacity is an issue that is a problem and as a government of the day, we are addressing that capacity. The big metros that we have taken over are not scared of this problem. There is a problem of capacity and it is being addressed by the Department of Human Settlements. So, it‘s not that the ANC does not able to get the houses.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, please take your seat. Hon Koni, you are on your feet.



Moh N P KONI: Modulasetilo, ke kopa gore o tsitsibose mme gore fa a busetsa digalase tsa matlho mo matlhong, a dire jaalo sentle gonne o tla tloga a ikgotlha leitlho.





That was not a point of order. Hon Zwane, please proceed.

Ms L L ZWANE: Thank you. I don‘t want to respond to that because you are a baby. You won‘t cope. [Interjections.] You are a baby. [Interjections.] Don‘t start me, don‘t. [Interjections.] Don‘t start me.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, please take your seat. Hon Koni!


Moh N P KONI: Ke kopa gore o reye mme gore a busetse morago lefoko la baby.



There is no baby in this House. Babies are at home. Maybe being ...


Ke kopa gore a le busetse morago.


If she wants to fight, we can take it outside, but here there is no baby.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, order. Order! Hon Zwane, we do not have babies, we have hon members. Hon members, we do not fight in this House, we debate. Continue, hon member.

Ms L L ZWANE: Thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order. [Interjections.] No, I make the ruling [Interjections.]

Ms L L ZWANE: Hon Chairperson, the problem that we are sitting with is that we have hon members, some of whom are behaving like babies.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Who are those?


Ms L L ZWANE: So, the behaviour is for babies, but the title is that they are hon. In conclusion; I just want to sound the warning to the people of South Africa as to say ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Zwane, please take your seat. Hon Mokwele!


Moh T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ga gona dibaby ka fa.


If we have babies in this House, grandmothers must go and look after the babies. We don‘t have time for members that behave like grandmothers. We are all hon members. We are equal here. There are no babies in this House. There are no members that behave like babies, please mom. You must go and look after your grandchildren. [Interjections.]

Ms L L ZWANE: Okay, no problem. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, order.

Ms L L ZWANE: Thank you, Chairperson.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, hon Zwane, I am still ruling on this matter. [Interjections.] Order! Hon members, lets not ruin a debate. It is right at the end of it. There are no babies. There are no grandmothers. There are no moms. There are hon members in this House. [Interjections.] That‘s my ruling. Hon Zwane, you have 14 seconds left. [Interjections.] Order!

Ms L L ZWANE: Thank you, Chair. I am a grandmother and I am proud. [Interjections]. I just want to sound a warning to the people of South Africa that are recipients of locos housing to say that they must not sell those houses because they are throwing away family silver. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Koni, I am not ...

Ms N P KONI: Please, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am not entertaining that point of order because I have ruled.

Ms N P KONI: No, it‘s not about that.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no, please take your seat. [Interjections] Please take your seat.

Ms N P KONI: Please, recognise me.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please, take your seat. Hon members, order. If you are going to be descriptive of yourself in this House, I have a problem. For the progress of this debate and for the seriousness which some of us take you, resist from degenerating into this name calling, please.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Thank you very much, Chairperson. It has been a very lively discussion, my sincerest gratitude to all those who supported the budget. I can assure you, those who supported the budget that Human Settlements works tirelessly seven days a week 12 hours a day to fulfil our mission. Your faith in us is not misplaced.

Hon Zwane, you were very right in most of the summing up that you did, and you made my job so much easier, in making sure that you correct the misconceptions that have been put out here.


I would like to thank the graciousness and the hard work that has been pioneered by the Chair. Together we will ensure that our children, comrade Chair, grow up in an environment that are carrying, where the child grows up in ... [Interjections.] ... please protect me from that.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are protected.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Thank you. They would grow up in a secure house and a secure environment. The title deeds matter that you deal, we have taken your direction and it is already in my office. Chairperson, there is pressure in housing at Mpumalanga ...


... atsi emaSwati nitsetse live labo, niyabona nje sebabuyele ekhaya ngiko nje seniminyetelene kangaka lapho nikhona. Buyiselani live lebantfu, mhlayimbe sitawuhlala kanconywana lapha eMpumalanga.


To the hon member in the DA, we in the Human Settlements are very proud in the way in which we work in a close relationship. We do not talk about ourselves as DA and ANC and all of those things. We would like you to please respect this. And we are better able to get to where we want to get to making sure that we actually work as a team


and we are very certain that in this way most of the issues that you raise we will be able to deliver.

However, I must correct you on two very important things; indeed the Western Cape has delivered 6 000 title deeds but nationally, the department has delivered 177 000 title deeds, which makes what you are claiming just a pittance.

Secondly, I just want to say that the Western Cape is not the best performing province. In fact it is KwaZulu-Natal which is the best performing province; here we have an understanding on a regular basis. But the good thing is that you understand that underpinning everything we stand for here is the Freedom Charter, I think, I see hope at the end of the tunnel when the DA begins to chant the Freedom Chatter.

Hon Mampuru, backyards as has been explained by hon Zwane are part of our policy; and 30% of our backyarders are given access to housing when a new project is put up. Hon Khawula, thank you very much for you wise counsel, but I would suggest that perhaps in some of those issues if you write to us – I can‘t see hon Khawula – we might be able to deal with these matters that are very specific to the area that you are dealing with.


Hon Ndlangisa, the matter of the Eastern Cape has been taken care of, we have given a verbal warning to the Eastern Cape about their over commitment because our people suffer when they have to be paid. With the EFF, I will provide you with the speech that I have read today because quite clearly it covers very articulately what you are tempting to put out here. It was already covered and you could easily have put it aside.

Hon Hattingh, you only woke up to the new agenda perhaps when you saw it in the briefing. Let me tell you. We were central in the crafting of the new agenda; South Africa was central in the crafting of the new agenda and we live it. Therefore, your logic is completely outside of this perhaps it needs a counsellor to deal with it. You say that the backlog is growing. It is growing more here in the Western Cape than in anywhere else. [Interjections.]

Mr C HATTINGH: So, why don‘t you address it?

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: You have got to address it, you got to address it because you have powers, and you‘ve got the HSDG to make sure that you address this. I would like to go on and say that to those who have given us their support, thank you very much.


I want to end off with an Orwellian quote and say: Those who can, do; those who can‘t, teach. That is exactly what I found here.

We have provided 4,5 million houses; providing shelter to more than

22 million people in this country. That is what we do best. You come and stand here and howl-and-howl-and howl. There is not a single howl that has been able to put up a house! We do. My call to all of you is come and build with us, in that way the people of South Africa will feel that they are well represented by you being here. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, now we would also like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister for coming through.


(Policy debate)

Vote No 25 - Economic Development:


The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Zulu, Deputy Minister November, and Deputy Minister Masuku, hon MECs and members of the NCOP, it is an honour for me, with Deputy Minister Masuku, to subject the Economic Development budget to today‘s debate. The budget covers the commission and tribunal responsible for competition, the Trade Authority; ITEC; the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC; and the technical unit of the Presidential Structure Co-ordinating Commission, PICC; and the department itself.

Last week, the new employment figures were published, which recorded that 538 000 new jobs were created last year and that unemployment grew by 491 000. The reason for the sharp rise both in unemployment and in new jobs is because 400 000 people who had previously not been economically active entered the labour market. The size of the labour market, the labour force, in other words, grew three times faster than population growth.

Earlier today, the latest GDP figures were released, which recorded an annualised decline of 0,7% in economic output - the second successive quarter that GDP has declined - which means that technically, the economy is in recession. Agriculture rebounded strongly, but manufacturing, utilities and retail numbers were down.


The Reserve Bank expects growth for this year to be 1% and the World Bank revised their estimative South African growth to 0,6%.

These economic data, together with the ratings downgrade two months ago, frame today‘s budget debate. The context of the debate includes modest growth in the global economy and a continuing slowdown in China‘s growth rates, a sharp reduction in growth in sub-Saharan Africa and recessions last year in Nigeria, Brazil and Russia.

While these developments impact on our economic performance through decreased global demand for our minerals, we should mainly focus on domestic factors, because we can more directly influence these.
Before addressing what we can do about it, let me briefly focus on provincial jobs and economic development initiatives.

In Gauteng, last year, 298 000 new jobs were created in the country‘s economic powerhouse, more than all the other provinces put together. To help develop Johannesburg‘s potential as a film hub, the IDC co-finances a new film studio in the city, located at the top of the Carlton Centre. It will create 150 permanent new jobs and
450 part-time jobs, help to rejuvenate downtown Johannesburg, and let us tell our stories, as South African.


Many small spaza shops and township retailers find themselves excluded from major malls and unable to compete with large supermarkets in township. The competition market inquiry into the retail sector has started its public hearings yesterday and called on small businesses and township entrepreneurs to come forward with their experience of being excluded from the mainstream economy. Hon members are also welcome to address the market inquiry.

In the Eastern Cape, last year, 76 000 new jobs were created. Extensive road renovations on the N2 were undertaken and we are now working to complete the funding of the new N2 Wild Coast highway that can transform travel times in the eastern part of the province. To strengthen the Eastern Cape as a car manufacturing sector, we expect construction to start on the new car plant in Nelson Mandela Bay that will lead to a boost in 2 000 jobs this year.

In Mpumalanga, last year, 57 000 jobs were created. The steel industry and its supplier sectors in the province had been hard-hit by the decline in commodity demand and prices, which hit a company called Evraz Highveld Steel and led to its closure in 2015. This morning, I participated through a Skype session in the official reopening of Evraz Highveld Steel, with structural steel production


now in full swing, and with 500 people employed in production and other economic activities in the complex. [Applause.]

Construction will also start on the road-building phase of the Moloto Corridor to make travel for workers from the KwaNdebele area to Gauteng safer.

In the North West, 52 000 new jobs were created in the last calendar year. In the past year, the IDC funded the wholly owned black furniture manufacturer, creating 180 new jobs. In this year, the PICC will work with stakeholders to support improvement in the public transport system in Rustenburg, with planning the introduction of 30 busses for the Bus Rapid Transit system in the city.

In the Western Cape, last year, 51 000 new jobs were created. One of our focus areas is the development of the economic potential of the West Coast. I visited an ICD co-funded gas infrastructure project in Saldanha, where a pipeline has been laid from the ocean to a large storage tank to enable us to import gas as a source of energy. The Western Cape has potential in the ICT sector to promote the new
data-driven economy and address high data costs. Following discussion with Minister Cwele, I have requested the Competition


Commission to conduct a market inquiry into the sector, to work out, with other regulators, what the facts are, what we can do to reduce data costs and what recommendations they will make to government.

In KwaZulu-Natal, last year, 40 000 new jobs were created. The province is the biggest taxi-producing centre on the African continent, with Toyota producing the Quantum Minibus in Ethekwini. Last year, 12 500 new taxis were assembled in the city, with local jobs providing more than 300 people with economic opportunities.
Infrastructure remains important in the province and the PICC will be monitoring efforts to connect 85 000 more houses to the national energy grid and an expansion of the Pier 2 berth at Durban Port.

A polyfabrick factory owned by a black industrialist was one of many projects supported by the IDC.

In Limpopo, last year, only 3 000 new jobs were created, but this follows years of extraordinary growth in jobs in Limpopo. The IDC is supporting a project to produce hard coking coal, used in the steel industry and we are currently importing that coking coal from Australia. Doing it in Limpopo will support beneficiation of our mineral resources and it is expected to create just over 1 000 permanent jobs in the province.


In this financial year, we expect construction to start on the Limpopo leg of the Moloto Corridor and the PICC will support efforts to get a large water pipeline to Lephalale, from the drawing board to construction.

In the Northern Cape, last year, 14 000 jobs were lost. A significant focus was the building of the massive new radio telescope system called the Meerkat, which places the province at the forefront globally of astronomy infrastructure. This year, renewable energy plant construction will continue in the province, with 700 people employed in five large wind and solar plants.

In the Free State, last year, 24 000 jobs were lost. The IDC has supported a black-owned chemical company that supplies industrial hygiene and sanitation chemicals and lubrication for conveyor belts, creating jobs in Harrismith. A start-up maize milling plant, owned by a black South African will start construction by the end of this year, which will support the growth of emerging farmers near the town of Tweeling.

I have given these concrete examples of both what we have done and what we are doing this year at a micro level, but to move out of the recession and address the impacts of the ratings downgrade, we will


need to speed up efforts to address our national needs and a develop a roadmap back to investment grade.

We need a new national deal that includes four components.

Firstly, we need a credible growth strategy that places emphasis on sectors and market opportunities, with high growth and job creation potential - and I have given some examples – and that attracts investments and ensures effective implementation of the Nine-point Plan and lifts the economy out of the recession.

In this regard, the IDC will target investment of between 15 and R18 billion in this financial year and seek to attract private- sector investment of an additional R30 billion. The competition authorities will do a market inquiry into high data costs. We launched a new R1,5 billion steel competitiveness fund five days ago. The R4,3 billion new auto plant will commence construction in the Eastern Cape and R330 billion is planned in infrastructure investment through the public and private-sector. So, that is a critical element of moving the economy out of recession.

Secondly, we need to transform the economy to make it more inclusive, bringing black South Africans, young people, the rural


poor and the urban unemployed into the economy, with speeded-up actions against high levels of economic concentration, inequality, social exclusion and joblessness.

In this regard, we will develop changes to the Competition Act, to address high levels of concentration and limited transformation in a number of sectors of the economy. The IDC will commit R7 billion for black industrialists for this year and R2,5 billion for women- and youth-empowered companies. It will aim to create, to save between
24 000 and 30 000 jobs this year, as part of our bold socioeconomic transformation programme.

Thirdly, we need to ensure integrity in governance and decision- making. We will manage our fiscal policies responsibly and sustainably. The Minister of Finance has indicated that. We will ensure policy certainty and we will inspire confidence among our people.

Fourthly, we will deepen partnership with greater efforts to pursue a social compact between government, business and organised labour. These actions will increase overall confidence in the economy and are the key to improving investment and demand and growth.


Critical to our efforts must be greater inclusivity, to put in place bold, strong, radical actions to ensure that we transform the economy.

The National Development Plan identified the need for a capable development state as a centre piece to achieve higher economic growth and deeper levels of social equity. That means that we must address the growing perception and reality of corruption and attempts to capture public institutions for the benefit of private individuals. Coupled with this, is weak and ineffective implementation of policies in a number of areas. They impact on economic confidence. These are areas that we will address in the period ahead.

As we build real, deep partnerships in the country, business will need to accept the need to work differently, to create more jobs, to be partners in transformation and broadening the base of ownership and to invest more vigorously. Organised labour can bring resources
- resources in union-investment companies and critically, the sweat equity of workers themselves. Communities can bring much to a broad compact. They can bring the creative spirit of youth, the energy of communities and massive support for the Buy Local campaign.


Government must bring effective and capable machinery to the compact.

In this way, we can build confidence in the future of the company, of the country, of the trade unions and of communities. Each one of these benefits from building a condition of confidence.

I want to conclude by saying that transformation is not only a social imperative; transformation also helps to be a spur to growth. When you tackle poverty, inequality and unemployment, you develop the engines of growth. We can build on the number of successful efforts – I gave a few examples of these – to ensure that we turbo- charge our efforts, that we regain the confidence of our own people in our ability to implement what we say we will do, and to successfully build this economy.

So, I place the budget discussion and it is my pleasure then to open the debate on economic development. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Vote 31 – Small Business Development:

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Minister, we have added the minutes of the Deputy Minister into your time. So, your time is now 20 minutes.


The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Hon House Chairperson, hon Members of the National Council of Provinces, Deputy Minister Nomathemba November,


Ngicela ukuxolisa ...


... on her behalf because she is here, she really pulled herself to be here she is not feeling very well but she has taken the responsibility to be here, board members, CEOs, Chief Executive Officers, provincial managers and the collective leadership of our agencies, both Seda, Small Enterprise Development Agency, and Sefa, Small Enterprise Finance Agency, and I would like to say to the members that the provincial managers are here because we felt as a department it is important for them to begin to understand how Parliament operates, hence they are here today, distinguished guests, - and by the way I was saying to them some of them might want to be here one day when we have retired - and compatriots good evening.

Chairperson, I would like to start by saying that listening to our Minister of Economic Development, and in particular, when he speaks


to the issue of the competition and commission inquiry, it is really music to our ears because we understand exactly what is happening out there as far as competition is concerned and the impact thereof of small and medium enterprises. We are also looking forward and we are hoping that small and medium enterprises would take responsibility and make sure that they make their contribution. We are also very much interested in what we hear from the Minister about the economic development because whatever happens with regard to the economy of South Africa, growth is important to small and medium enterprises. So, thank you very much Minister, we are happy that we are here together rather than before when you come, you presented and went away. At least today we are listening to each other.

Chairperson, I am here to present the Budget Vote 31 on Small Business Development for the 2017/18 financial year to which the Department of Small Business Development has allocated as follows: transfers and subsidies constitute 84,8% or R1,24 billion of the allocated R1,46 billion. Seda is allocated R51,9 billion or
R743,1 million, whilst the remaining 33,2% or R484.6 million is administered through the following grants to the programmes that are really under the Department of Small Business Development; Black Business Supplier Development Programme which is allocated R256,8


million, co-operatives incentive scheme is allocated R78,7 million; enterprise incubation programme is allocated R49,7 million and the National Informal Business Upliftment Strategy, is allocated R99,4 million for the current financial year. Compensation of employees is allocated 9,5% or R139 million, that shows that a lot of our money that is allocated goes to the agencies where the money has to go directly to small and medium enterprises as well as co-operatives.
Goods and services are allocated 5,5% or R80,1 million whilst capital assets are allocated 0,2% or R2,6 million.

Sefa‘s total budget for the current financial year is R223,8 million. The aim of our portfolio is to lead an integrated approach in the development of SMMEs; small, medium and micro enterprises, and co-operatives. We want to be as pragmatic as far as we possibly can in providing co-ordination, direction and leadership on policy, planning, mobilizing resources, strengthening accountability, partnerships and communication with sector stakeholders for the development of SMMEs and co-operatives across the three spheres of government. This is a major step change for our portfolio.
Chairperson, we believe that co-ordination in the three spheres of government will be able to assist us in making sure that whatever we package for SMMEs is properly co-ordinated in all the three spheres to avoid wastage and unco-ordinated efforts towards SMMEs. It has


been three years since our existence and it has been clear that this allocation is simply insufficient given the challenges faced by SMMEs and co-operatives, especially black-owned, youth and women- owned led entrepreneurs as well as those that are led by people with disability.

Despite this limitation we are proud of the services we have delivered to the sector and the impact we have recorded — despite being in our infancy. The three-year experience indicates that our people clearly do not have the financial means to establish and sustain their businesses. Here in the main, we are not necessarily cutting out everybody else because we believe that any o business in South Africa whether it is black-owned, or women–owned or white- owned is important because this is where jobs will be created. Our responsibility as government is to create a conducive environment for SMMEs and co-operatives to grow and be sustainable. However, the responsibility of entrepreneurs is to seize the opportunities that are available especially those that are supported by government.
This is in line with the spirit of Vukuzenzele.

Not withstanding this, there is an urgent need for all our social partners including the private sector to work together to ensure that we create a vibrant and sustainable entrepreneurial ecosystem


throughout all nine provinces. House Chairperson, at this point I would like to quote from Oliver Tambo whose views expressed as far back as 1991 when he said:

The objective of our struggle in South Africa, as set out in the Freedom Charter, encompasses economic emancipation. It is inconceivable for liberation to have meaning without a return of the wealth of the country to the people as a whole. To allow the existing economic forces to retain their interests intact is to feed the roots of racial supremacy and exploitation and does not represent even the shadow of our liberation.

Loyal to the pledge we made during the liberation struggle, we will never consider our mission accomplished and freedom attained until all our people have been emancipated from economic bondage, poverty, Inequality and unemployment as well as despair. Therefore, the right of the majority to economic inclusivity will never be betrayed, not by this ANC-led government. Thus, our relentless pursuit of radical economic transformation continues unapologetically. We are aware, Chairperson, that when we talk of radical economic transformation there is always questions and murmurs of what exactly do we mean by this. This is simple and straight forward as President Jacob Zuma in his 2017 state of the nation address said:


We mean fundamental change in the structure, systems, institutions and patterns of ownership, management and control of the economy in favour of all South Africans, especially the poor, the majority of whom are African and female as defined by the governing party which makes policy for the democratic government.

If we are to build a prosperous future we should not find ourselves arguing relentlessly over definitions but rather work together to achieve growth and sustainable development in our country. Since our inception in May 2014, we have been mobilising society in all provinces and raising awareness around entrepreneurship, the small business and co-operatives sector and the challenges that confront it as well as the opportunities available to them within government and I may venture to say, including the private sector. Chairperson, because of our collective and concerted efforts, the majority of our citizens now appreciate the value and contribution of small businesses to our economy. They realise that supporting small and medium enterprises will defeat the scourges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.

The huge demands placed by SMMEs and co-operatives on my department since its inception, is a clear confirmation that South Africans are


beginning to recognise the possibilities and opportunities in entrepreneurship and we need to nurture this entrepreneurial culture and ensure that we breed a society of job creators and not job seekers. The mind set is indeed changing. We have been able to set up a sound administration in the department, resulting in us achieving an unqualified audit outcome in the first year of operating as Budget Vote 31. All indications are that the department and its agencies will maintain an unqualified audit outcome in respect of the 2016/17.

House Chairperson, the contribution of small, micro and medium enterprises to the South African economy is far below its potential. According to the Quarterly Financial Statistics Report, the private sector earned a total of R2,3 trillion in turnover in the last quarter of 2016. Large businesses dominant in the manufacturing and trade industries contributed 60% to this total, followed by small and medium businesses at 40%. We need to do better and match the global average which show small businesses share higher levels of participation in various economies. This is possible if we heed the President‘s directive to set aside at least 30% of government procurement budget of around R600 billion towards SMMEs. Apologies Chairperson, I need water and tissue.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you assist with water? Water, please. Can we have water?

The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Thank you very much, for your indulgence. The tax revenue collected from SMMEs also demonstrates that this sector is increasingly becoming a force to be reckoned with. The contribution by SMMEs continue to increase in terms of four tax categories namely; pay-as-you-earn, which increased from 57% to 59%, the contribution by SMMEs to the skills development levy increased from 51% to 54%, CIT, Corporate Income Tax, from 65% to 67% and VAT, Value Added Tax from 57 to 58%.
Chairperson, I must hasten to say though, even when we have these figures that we are chanting out here, it is of importance to us as the Department of Small Business Development to see which of these SMMEs are growing, which are sustaining and in which sectors do we see growth happening. We might be very excited only to find that it is the same old SMMEs the small and medium youth, women, black owned are not very high on this category.

The contribution of SMMEs to the economy continued to increase despite the increasingly difficult economic conditions – and we heard today of those economic conditions. We are determined to strengthen the small business sector to enable it to occupy its


rightful place in the mainstream economy and to demonstrate that small business makes big business of the future and working together we can indeed achieve more. In our last Budget speech, we urged National Treasury to fast track the implementation of the 30% set asides policy and programme for small businesses and co-operatives. We are encouraged with the progress made towards achieving the implementation of the 30% set aside announced by President Jacob Zuma in 2015 and further reiterated in his 2017 state of the nation address.

Chairperson, I also do want to indicate that the 30% procurement is something that we found as a department having being identified as one of the areas which we need to focus on including the identification of set aside and specific products which are supposed to be set aside for small and medium enterprises. What excites us is that after many years of dilly-darling around this issue, it has now been clarified. What is important is how we enable SMMEs to take advantage of this. National Treasury has gazetted the revised Preferential Procurement Regulations in January 2017, which compels government and its entities to procure at least 30% of goods and services from SMMEs and co-operatives. I am pleased to report that the 30% targeted procurement from SMMEs has been exceeded by some provinces such as Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and North West as well as


some national government departments such as Public Works, Tourism and my own department.

The Department of Small Business Development alone recorded about 60% procurement from SMMEs and co-operatives. Chairperson, with regard to policies, legislation and regulations these are the core levers in the control of government through which to create an enabling environment for small businesses to grow and thrive in our economy. You will recall that we went through a review of our programme as we recently presented to the select committee some of our high level programmes. We are proud to report that the preliminary stakeholder consultations on the review of the National Small Business Development Act 102 of 1996, as amended in 2004, have been completed. We expect the Bill to be introduced in the legislative process in the first quarter of 2018. House Chairperson, our efforts to reduce the regulatory and compliance burden by small businesses is gaining momentum. Since 2014, we have rolled out the guidelines on red tape reduction to about 165 municipalities. At least two provinces KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape have adopted these guidelines into provincial responses because ultimately, your small and medium enterprises and co-operatives mix the challenges at that level of provincial and local. One of the major challenges faced by small business is late payment of their invoices. This is


one of the main challenges consistently raised by organised business and as government departments are the main defaulters. Through the PFMA, Public Finance Management Act, government compelled all spheres of government and its entities to pay service providers within 30 days of receiving valid invoices. By the way, this does not exclude our entities both Seda and Sefa. We urge all small businesses who have not receive payments to utilise the hotlines operated by Seda which seeks to resolve the challenges of late payment.

Since its inception in 2009, invoices to the value of R523 million were resolved. Between 01 April 2016 and 13 February 2017, 1 199 calls reported to the hotline and 1 112 were resolved leaving only
87 still pending and we will do our best to make sure that these are paid. House Chairperson, addressing the National Council of Provinces in 1998, former President Nelson Mandela had this to say:

The NCOP is uniquely placed to reflect the diversity of our society and to synthesise the experience of those spheres of government which are charged with the bulk of the task of implementing our national programme of fundamental change.


Thus, former President Nelson Mandela firmly placed firmly on the agenda the critical importance of co-operative governance and effective intergovernmental relations hence we believe that the role of the NCOP in as far as our work is concerned is very important.
Together, we will continue to strengthen our collaboration through the political and technical MINMECs, Ministers and Members of Executive Councils, and as well as the MECs, Member of the Executive Councils, who are responsible for economic development for the co- operation with our Minister.

Together and working in partnership with the department of COGTA, Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, we have led the responsibility to ensure functional local economic development forums that can make an impact on local economic development. The portfolio committee always says to us that if we want to make sure that at local level things are working well and ensure that your local economic development offices are operational because the success of small and medium enterprises is success of the local economic development structures too.

We wish to announce that we will host a national LED, Local Economic Development, summit during this financial year, which will be preceded by provincial LED summits. The MEC for Finance and Economic


Development in the North West, Ms Wendy Nelson, has already made a commitment to convene the first provincial LED summit and I will be engaging other MECs for Economic Development and the deputy as well as the department will play an important role in this. Consistent with our mandate to create an enabling environment to establish new and to grow the existing SMMEs, our collective effort to unlock the potential for SMMEs and co-operatives, especially in townships, rural areas and villages remains firmly on track.

Chairperson, I would like to also say that two of the other issues that are very important to SMMEs are access to finance and access to markets. Our agencies both Seda and Sefa are very important in this regard. On none financial supports we believe that - even if you have the financial support - but if our people do not have none financial support that assist them and ensuring that they are able to run their businesses - it becomes very difficult.

Chairperson, I would like to also indicate that we have a very special programme which is called the Gazelles Programme. In this programme we believe that, working together with the Department of Trade and Industry as well as Economic Development, it can become a feeder to the black industrialists programme where we make sure that


particularly black-owned are able to participate being supported by government.

In conclusion, House Chair, the 2019 aspirations that we have set ourselves to realise, are on track. I would like to thank my department, the Director-General Prof Edith Fries, all the department staff who are here today including the Deputy Minister who is with us to say that as far as possible we will do the best that we can to make sure that we deliver to the felt needs of small and medium enterprises. I would also like to thank my family for the tolerance that they give to all the time that I have to be coming in and leaving the house at odd hours. I think that they can see the result of our work. Thank you, Chairperson.

Mr M I RAYI: House Chairperson, hon members, Ministers, Ms Zulu and Mr Patel, Deputy Minister, Mr Masuku, special delegates, MEC, I also want to acknowledge my MEC from my province, the director-generals of the two departments, the officials from the two departments, as well as their entities, distinguished guests and fellow South Africans.

Firstly, let me first start by taking this opportunity and thank the two Ministries for their consistency in taking the NCOP select


committee seriously. They never disappoint in terms of attending the meetings of the Select Committees of Economic and Business Development. This committee deals with six departments and the other one is Public Works. We are still going to observe it because now it has got a new Minister. Next week we are having a select committee on that department, but like I said, we will be observing.

The two Departments of Economic and Small Business Development, when attending the select committee meetings, they even bring along their Deputy Ministers. [Applause.] I have received the Ministers‘ questions from my constituencies. I want to start with them. I know that each one of you have five minutes to respond or maybe the Deputy Minister, Mr Masuku, may respond to them. Let me read these questions because I understand that this debate is live. I was told that it is live on channel 408 therefore, the members of the public are watching if I am going to raise the issues that were forwarded to me.

The first one is directed to the Minister of Economic Development and it says: The state infrastructure‘s spending has helped South Africa to avoid recession, and has created the much needed jobs in the phase of generally rising unemployment. Can the Minister advice us on how the recent downgrade will affect the government


infrastructure spend? In particular, will the downgrade of some of our state-owned companies affect the scale and pace of their billed programmes?

A second question says: The trade unions talk about the established private sector being on an investment strike. Why do you think that is the case, and what is being done by the government to ensure that we radically increase the levels of private investment, especially, if it is capital investment? The government biggest incentive programme is in the automotive sector, why don‘t we have similar incentive programmes in the sectors that are more labour intensive and where capital ownership is domestic, such as agro-processing, textile clothing, etc?

To the Minister of Small Business Development the question says: The South African economy remains highly concentrated and dominated by large co-operates, why do you think that we have not been able to radically increase the ownership share of small business in the South African economy? You have touched on the second question which is about the late payment, but I‘ll read it anyway, it says: In the Eastern Cape and the other provinces, the late payments to the small and medium enterprises and the suppliers, threatens the sustainability of many black owned Small, Medium and Micro


Enterprises, SMMEs, please explain how the government is addressing this problem? I know that you have spoken about the hotline.

The last question is: How does the Small Business Department work with the Department of Trade and Industry to ensure that the SMMEs are integrated into the priority value chains of Industrial Policy Action Plan, IPAP? Is this working? Please, give examples. I don‘t know what is happening on the podium. Coming back to my speech, in the recent past years, many countries‘ economies, both in the advanced and emerging economies have suffered as result of recent global economic crisis.

Hon House Chair, we recognise that some of the negative effects that we are experiencing as the country are as a result of global economic and social shifts. European countries‘ political dynamics would certainly have an effect to emerging economies. House Chair and hon members, the global political shifts in the western markets, like the new administration in the US, led by President Trump, Brexit and the emergence of right-wing political parties, pose a global threat to the world economic governance, and it will hit hard on the developing countries.


The Chinese economy is also not performing according to our expectations. These global economic and political changes have unleashed populist policies like restrictive parameters to trade, investment and migration. Here at home, we also need to be worried. Our economy is connected to the international markets. There are events that have set the scene for social distress and the economic growth projections are worrisome.

We have our unique extraordinary social, political and economic situation, which is originating from past colonial apartheid. Even with post political independence, as a country, we are still suffering from extreme inequality, particularly, along racial lines. At the current rate of growth, it will not be sufficient to significantly reduce the unemployment, poverty and inequality problems in our country.

We have economic policies that can make us defeat poverty, inequality and the stubborn unemployment, which today has reached 27,7% and hitting hard on young people. We should not forget that between 2000 and 2008, our economy rose remarkably, at the back of commodity boom, and the government was able to create jobs. For the economic performance, coupled with strong fiscal policy management, the government was able to expand infrastructure investment, thus


boosting domestic investment. We have relatively deep and liquid financial markets that support both public and private sectors borrowing, in order to accelerate growth.

The National Development Plan, NDP, creates a strategic opportunity for the economic development to work smarter, and it is strategic in co-ordinating the implementation of the country‘s economic policy.
From the year 2009, the department assumed the responsibilities relating to the creation of decent employment through inclusive growth. Hon members, let me remind you that the government has allocated R241,6 billion to the Economic Development and agricultural sectors. The split is as follows:

For the economic infrastructure and network regulation is R89,5 billion; employment, labour affairs, and social security funds, R75,9 billion; agriculture, rural development and land
reform, R26,5 billion and science, technology, innovation and the environment, R20,6 billion. Overall, the government expenditure is R1,56 trillion. The Economic Development Department is then expected from an economic planning and co-ordination perspective to ensure that the development plans and resources realise the NDP objectives.


We believe the resources have been strategically aligned to the NDP, the New Growth Path, IPAP and the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, and also respond to the mandate of the department. There is an urgent need as articulated in the NDP to rebalance the South African economy. Currently, our economy is highly concentrated. Our exports are dominated by minerals, and nonmineral exports grew much slower. The South African economy is dominated by big firms, and 93% of all exports come from 5% of exporting firms.

Our economy should deconcentrate, and our efforts should support competition in the local economy in order for the super exporters to innovate, and the SMMEs to export more. That means that we need to support small business enterprises. This is a matter that I will deal with later, in pledging our support to Small Business Development Department. We need to accelerate transformative initiatives that seek to bring the previous disadvantage people to participate in the mainstream economy.

The task for this department is huge, and we believe it can carry it. The organisational structure of the department fits the task at hand, and offers a strong platform for collaboration for the main economic role-players; the business, labour, academia, government and civil society. The Growth Path and Social Dialogue Policy


Programme over the medium term, is expected to spend R117,6 million. The aim is to enhance development partnerships in order to deepen the economic growth opportunities, and furthermore, to find new opportunities in sectoral industries and workplace, to upgrade their capacities to address the socioeconomic challenges.

The private sector participation in the economy remains on top of the government‘s development agenda; this has got to do with whether they are on the investment strike. The department continues to inspire us. We have noticed that it will continue to engage with the private sector, including labour, in order to increase the private investment in the economy, to foster transformation that lays a path to inclusive economic growth and development.

The outcomes in education and training, research development and investment in the Information and Communication Technology, ICT, remains a challenge. If it is not addressed, it will perpetuate inequality and poverty, and become a binding constraint in our development path. So, we are enthused to further notice that the department would be co-ordinating private sector initiatives in technical and vocational education and training in various provinces.


The R20,6 billion that has been allocated to the science, technology, innovation and the environment, would result in the outcomes that will contribute to the realisation of the strategic policy objectives outlined in the NDP. We see that there are greater co-ordination efforts which will be made by the department, in partnership with the private sector, labour and civil society, to ensure that the current spending amounting to R1,56 trillion meet the expectations of all South Africans.

The studies have shown that we need to address the infrastructure bottlenecks and high logistical costs, particularly, in rail and telecommunication, and that have an effect to growth of the economy, and it affects exports performance. These are some of the industries in which our public sector entities are dominant, and we believe that the industries with the present opportunities for private sector participation will bring the needed investments, and safe guard the fiscus.

The transformation in these industries should bring the needed inclusive growth ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I am sorry, hon Rayi. Hon Michalakis. Please take your seat! Hon Michalakis, why are you standing?

Mr G MICHALAKIS: House Chairperson, I‘m standing to enquire whether hon Rayi is willing to take a question, please!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Rayi, are you willing to take a question?

Mr M I RAYI: As soon as I am done with my speech.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes, once he‘s done, he will take your question! Continue hon Rayi!

Mr M I RAYI: The transformation in these industries should bring the needed inclusive growth, and thus change the wellbeing of all the South Africans. This is the area that we believe that the work of the department over the medium term would pay a particular attention on. The inclusive growth requires deconcentrating industries that are dominated by few firms, accelerate the inclusion of millions of black South Africans into jobs and businesses and increase the incomes of all South Africans.


The efforts of the department would attempt to address the following government strategic focus areas: Strengthening competition laws to address skewed ownership and control, which is a barrier to business entry and the expansion of key markets that are essential for job creation; increasing the efforts to curb the power of monopolies; promoting the initiatives that support the incentives for labour intensive sectors, including agriculture, agro-processing and tourism; further promote opportunities that support skills development in emerging industries that would drive economic growth and development; and support the provincial and local governments to reverse spatial fragmentation of South Africa‘s cities, so that people have easier access to jobs and infrastructure.

To support the government strategic focus areas, the department would receive over the medium-term, R44,6 million to support the work of the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordination Commission. Hon Chairperson and hon members, in order for the country to clear infrastructure backlog, and further meet the new infrastructure programme, the private sector investment in infrastructure becomes critical. This means that both the domestic and international investors must be encouraged to invest.


The cities, towns, including rural, mining and small towns, need a co-ordinated infrastructure investment, in both social and economic infrastructure. The cities and regions have been recognised long that they are the engines for economic growth and job creation. This is the policy space that the department needs to lead in collaboration with other departments such as Rural Development, Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Trade and Industry, development finance institutions, state-owned enterprises, in partnership with the private sector

Over the medium-term, the department is expected to spend R2,2 billion under the policy programme called Investment,
Competition and Trade. I believe, we all agree that this is the area that needs special attention. I have already stated that our economy is highly concentrated; it needs to be deconcentrated. It needs to open up for new entrance, particular in black businesses The Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, will continue to focus on the development of industrial capacity that is balanced with long- term sustainability.

Over the medium term, the IDC, is expected to increase its funding approvals and disbursements, from R13,3 billion in 2016-17 to R22,3 billion in 2019-20. Jobs will definitely be created in


priority value chain industries such as metals and mining, chemicals and pharmaceuticals, and agro-processing and agriculture. Over the medium term, the black industrialist programme, is anticipated to spend R16,5 billion. We acknowledged the role and contribution of the Competition Commission in the overall governance of our economy. We further support the government decision to allocate additional funding of R150,4 million to the Competition Commission to enhance the commission‘s capacity and capability.

Hon House Chairperson, over the medium term, the department will spend R2,5 billion to fulfil government development agenda. As I transit to the next debate, the Small Business Development, I want to share that the development partnership initiatives could also work for the benefit of the small businesses in townships, and it should be expanded to the rural areas. The recent awarded competition penalties and supplier development funds have been channelled to contribute to the country‘s inclusive economic growth agenda.

The Soweto Gold brewery accessed finance through an Industrial Development Corporation Fund, established through the penalties imposed on Pioneer Foods for anticompetitive behaviour in the bread market; the Lethabo Milling, benefited from a fund established as


part of the Walmart and Massmart merger to develop ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Rayi, I am sorry. Can you take your seat, please? Hon Chabangu, why are you standing?

Mr M M CHABANGU: I would like to know as to whether I can ask the chairman of the committee a simple question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Rayi, are you ready to take a question from hon Chabangu?

Mr M I RAYI: Tomorrow we are having a select committee meeting, we will meet there. He is a member of that committee, for now I will continue!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, he‘s not ready to take a question, hon Chabangu. Can you continue hon Rayi?

Mr M I RAYI: No, I will deal with your question after I have finished.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Rayi, you can‘t talk to hon Chabangu. He is not ready to take the question. Continue with your speech.

Mr M I RAYI: Okay!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Take your seat, hon Chabangu!

Mr M I RAYI: The Partnership between the Gauteng Department of Economic Development and Pick n Pay, established the distribution platform for the benefit of township spaza shops. We are indeed in an era where growth must serve all.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Rayi, can you take your seat? Hon Mokwele!

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, is it parliamentary for members to sleep in the House? That member is sleeping; I don‘t know her name, but she is sleeping. She must drink water.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mokwele. Can you take your seat? Hon members, let me appeal to all of you, refrain from


anything that will compromise the decorum of the House! I am saying that to all of you. Can you continue hon Rayi!

Mr M I RAYI: Thank you, hon House Chair! In 1995, our government published a White Paper on Small Business. The White Paper has this to say: With the millions of South Africans unemployed and underemployed, the government has no option but to give its full attention to the task of job creation, and generating sustainable and equitable growth. The small, medium and micro enterprises, represent an important vehicle to address the challenges of job creation, economic growth and equity in our country.

We are committed to doing all we can, to help create an environment in which the businesses can get on with their job. We believe in the principle of working together with our partners in the private sector, big and small businesses, in realising our hopes and aspirations. This is what the White Paper said on small business.
The NDP has put set targets for growth and employment creation through SMME development and put emphasis on the importance of creating an enabling environment for small business enterprises. According to the NDP, 90% of jobs will be created in small and expanding firms. The primary aim is to open credit channels, provide infrastructure, training and investment in skills and market access.


The current economic landscape requires structural changes and enhanced competitiveness. The role of small business enterprises has become even more important as providers of employment opportunities. I have earlier indicated that our economy is dominated by big firms; hence there is a need to support small business enterprises. The big firms are no longer creating new high value exports that present an opportunity for small business enterprises to enter into both domestic and the exports markets, and create much needed value addition.

It is reported that the SMMEs are the engines of the European economy, accounting for 99% of businesses, and up to two-thirds of all private sector jobs in the European Union. However, even in the European Union region, small business enterprises often have difficulty in accessing capital. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, I just want to know whether is parliamentary for member to sleep through the whole debate and now come and stand on the podium to debate.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Julius, you are out of order. You are out of order. You are out of order.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Chairperson is it parliamentary for the hon member to lie in the House, because the member was not sleeping and he is sitting behind.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I have made my ruling. Hon Julius!

Mr S SOMYO (Eastern Cape): Hon Chairperson, hon members, Minister of Economic Development, Minister of Small Business Development and distinguished guests, we welcome this opportunity we have been afforded to make an input into the Budget Vote of the departments of Small Business Development and Economic Development as presented by Ministers; Minister Lindiwe Zulu and Mr Ebrahim Patel respectively.

We agree fully that both Ministers unleashes that despite a very challenging economic environment as a country we haven‘t fed as badly as many predicted. That said, we shouldn‘t rest on our laurels when many still confront the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and equality. Thus all of us should remain highly concerned at the slow ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Somyo, sorry can you take your seat? Hon Julius, why are you standing? Sorry, hon Michalakis?


Mr G MICHALAKIS: House Chairperson, I am going trying again. I am looking for someone in the ANC who will be willing to have the guts to take my question, please.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon MEC, are you ready to take a question?

Mr S SOMYO (Eastern Cape): He is not refereeing to me.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes, are you ready to take a question?

Mr S SOMYO (Eastern Cape): No, he is not refereeing to me.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Somyo, are you ready to take a question?

Mr S SOMYO (Eastern Cape): No, I am not going to take his question. He is not refereeing to me.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, he is not ready to take your question. Can you continue?


Mr S SOMYO (Eastern Cape): ... as the Eastern Cape Province which is battling with the high rate of unemployment, we are responsive and ready to put our hands on deck to contribute in all efforts that seek to deepen jobs reach growth path.

The recent ratings down grades might deepen our future growth prospects but we mustn‘t despair. Difficult times can bring opportunities for longer lasting solutions. These down grades are a serious occurrence and we support the clarion call by Minister Patel for all of us to work together to stave off any further downgrades.

The road map for the stabilisation of our economy and averting further downgrades outlined by both Ministers is in tandem with our main priorities as a province. This are properly elucidated in our provincial economic development strategy which has identified agro- industry, the automotive industry, sustainable energy, oceans economy, large manufacturing, tourism and small businesses as sectors that the province has a comparative advantage on.

We are for instance at the fore front of ensuring that the energy sector is transformed and more representative of the demographics of the country through ensuring local participation in the renewable


energy value chain, including Small, Medium and Micro Enterprise, SMME, participation in the manufacturing of components.

Going forward, we will target the construction of the 1000 megawatt liquid natural gas as declared by the Minister of Energy which would fire the power station of Coega for this purpose.

In the auto-sector space, we have recently received, as pronounced by the Minister 11 billion bulk investment through our formidable partnership with the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC. There is a further R1,2 billion committed as signed by BAIC and IDC to support SMMEs in the auto-sector, something that should put a smile on the face of Minister Zulu.

The benefits of the BAIC vehicle assembly plant to our economy are enormous and 1500 increasing to 2500 people will be employed in the manufacturing plant as production is ramped up gradually. This number excludes component manufacturing and other related activities which are reported as indirect employment and estimated at 10 000 once the factory reaches the big production volume of 100 000 vehicles. Indirect taxes to our government from the economy wide impact of BAIC will likely pick at R174 million whilst the rate corporate taxes could reach 102 million per annum.


It is expected that individual taxes from the impact of the operation could reach 71 million per annum. This is indeed a good story to tell amidst the unfortunate divestment of the General Motors from our land.

As the Minister has pronounced, it is indeed one of the celebrated moment when the government has taken a decision to start to implement the construction of the N2 highway which would enrich the participation of our own people in the eastern side of the province. Indeed, infrastructure is a driver of socio-economic development and we so appreciate.

We can all agree that a lot of great work has been done by the Competition Commission in fighting collusive behaviour and cartel conduct in our economy. This should be commended because it is often consumers who are mostly exposed to the highest levels of risk at the mercy of monopolies. That is why we appreciate so quieter the activity of the commission in raiding a one of the outlets which relate to the same of the agro-products. It is also a fact that small medium and micro-enterprises ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Somyo, can you take your seat? Hon Shabangu, why are you standing?


Mr M M CHABANGU: There is a hell of a fight here and you must intervene. Chairperson is fighting with a member here. No, I am not fighting. I am not fighting.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Michalakis, you are not recognised. Take your seat. Hon Rayi and hon Michalakis, hackling is allowed but you can‘t drown and is worse if you are doing what you are doing. Refrain from doing what you are doing. Can you take your seat hon Michalakis? Try it you will see. Continue hon Somyo. Sorry, hon Koni, why are you standing?

Ms M P KONI: We know very well that hon Wana is a sleepiest, but we know that she is trying to destruct herself from her sleeping, but she must not do it very loud. She is destructing us from concentrating.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You are out of order. Take your seat.

Mr S SOMYO (Eastern Cape): We can all agree that a lot of great work has been done by the Competition Commission is fighting illusive behaviour. It is also a fact that small medium and micro-enterprises can only thrive when the market is properly steered by developmental


state which intervenes in their favour. The intervention could however be aimed at creating markets for this enterprises and levelling the playing field. Can I ask the Chair to intervene? This is out of order. We are asked to come to Parliament to service the very important task, please.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, can you take your seat? Hon members, you can‘t be drowning the speaker on the floor. Hon Michalakis, you are not recognised. Okay, can you raise your point of order?

Mr G MICHALAKIS: House Chairperson, I am not disrupting, I am just trying to explain to the ANC members that it is because of their government that we have the worst unemployment rate in 14 years and that we are currently in a recession. They don‘t understand, so I have to repeat time after time. Thanks to the ANC, we are under recession at the moment and we have the worst unemployment in 14 years.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Michalakis?

Mr G MICHALAKIS: They don‘t listen. I am just speaking truth.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Michalakis? It is the last warning. We are abusing the point of order issue. That is not the point of order and you know that is not the point of order.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, I just want to ask. Is it the decorum of this House when a person rise on point of order and the rest drowns him out? It is not. No, I am very serious. The speaker is talking and we drawn out the speaker. Listen to this? Just listen.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you take your seat? Hon members, I don‘t need any assistance and you are out of order. If a person is raising on a point of order, we must listen to it. Hon Michalakis was not raising a point of order. He was out of order.
That is why I gave him a final warning and I have made a ruling about hon Michalakis, so there was no need for you to rise on a point of order. Can you continue hon Somyo?

Mr S SOMYO (Eastern Cape): A province has developed an LED procurement framework to support local entrepreneurs including cooperatives. A target of 50% has been set for procurement from local SMMEs and cooperatives and various products that must be sourced from them have already been identified.


The province has put resources aside for the support of townships and rural economic initiatives and special focus is on manufacturing initiatives. Revamping of industrial parks, building of business infrastructure and facilitation of access to markets, in support of the informal sector the province has established joint collaboration with Department of Small Business Development, DSBD, for the provision of enabling infrastructure for the sector and resources have been committed to assist local municipalities to develop business plans and infrastructure designs for the fact that they can qualify for DSBD informal infrastructure grant.

We are also carefully managing the by-laws of municipalities so that informal businesses are not viewed as a threat towards the modernisation and thus investment attraction in our towns.

In conclusion, we want to wish the departments all the best in the year ahead, as they continue to give meaning to our programme of radical economic transformation.

Minister Zulu, Minister Patel, the Deputy Ministers and the departmental officials should stay on course and never be distracted by prophets of doom.


It is important that I leave you with the profound words of Jack Ma the founder of one of the world‘s largest electronic commerce companies Alibaba when he said and I quote: ―No matter how tough the chase is, you should always have the dream you saw on the first day. It'll keep you motivated and rescue you from any weak thoughts..
This House must be saved. Thank you very much Chair.

Mr L V MAGWEBU: Hon Chairperson, members and fellow South Africans, in July 1993 speaking to South African Trade Union Congress, Cosatu, the late Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela said:

If the ANC does to you what the apartheid government did to you, then you must do to the ANC what you did to the apartheid government. [Applause.]

In May 1994, on becoming the first President of the democratic South Africa, again, Tata Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela said:

My fellow South Africans, today we are entering a new era for our country and its people. Today we celebrate not the victory of a party, but a victory for all the people of South Africa.


Here is the question and I thus put it to you: Why today ANC leaders families and their friends are living and are becoming elite families living in opulent just sponsored by South African government when people are living in poverty; why is the President a amassing great wealth and buying properties in Dubai sponsored by the Gupta family, as reported in the newspapers, when fellow unemployed and barely survive; why are the ANC politicians calling for radical economic transformation which is good but is meant and we know that it is to benefit themselves, their children and their families, not he ordinary South Africans at home; [Interjections.] why under Mr Zuma do we have a billion rand President.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Magwebu, can you take your seat.

Ms T J MOKWELE: He reminds me of one pastor I don‘t want to mention by name.


Ditsebe tsa rona di utlwa botlhoko, ka jaalo ke kopa gore a buele kwa tlase.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Magwebu, you must not be that close to the mike, continue with your speech.

Mr L V MAGWEBU: Why under Mr Zuma do we have a billion rand President when South Africans remain poor and unemployed? Under Mr Zuma, in two presidential terms, it has costed a taxpayer approximately R1 billion. Mr Zuma ranks number five in the list of the top highest paid leaders in world. He is paid more than the Presidents and the Prime Ministers of the following countries France, the United Kingdom, Russia, Italy and Brazil.

Unemployment rate in South Africa has increased to 27,7% in the first quarter of 2017 from 26,5%. This is the highest unemployment rate since 2004. Hon members and fellow South Africans, today the South African economy has officially entered a recession, after the first quarter saw economic output contract by 0,7 % after contracting by 0,3 % in the first quarter; and the consumer spending and manufacturing industries shrank. Further, the trade catering and the accommodation industries have suffered immensely. The last time South Africa was in a recession was in 2009. Thanks to the ANC-led government, we are in this mass now.


South Africa was downgraded to junk status by two credit rating agencies. Over the last 35 years, these agencies have downgraded 20 countries to junk status with only six countries ever regaining their investment status. We are in a serious economic crisis caused by the ANC-led government.

Recently, thousands of emails about state capture, corruption and the looting of public funds by ANC-led government have been leaked exposing that which we all knew. We already knew that the President here in South Africa is indeed captured. Ten million barrels of our crude oil reserves were sold by the Department of Energy when prices were at eight year ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Magwebu, sorry can you take your seat. Hon Zwane, why are standing?

Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson, I am rising on a point of order: Chairperson, I just want to verify if it parliamentary for a member to be irrelevant from the topic under discussion.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): That is not a point of order but it is important for members to be relevant to the debate; can you continue hon Magwebu.


Mr L V MAGWEBU: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Ten million barrels of our crude oil reserves were sold by the Department of Energy when prices were at eight year low and this transaction was said to be rotation. We know the truth now; this was not true, it was an irregular sale.

Recently, as if this not enough, R70 million for VAT, value-added tax, at was irregularly paid by SA Revenue Services, Sars, to a private company owed by the Guptas. Government has spent almost
R1 billion in the past financial year defending a number of lawsuits against it. Bad decisions by the ANC-led government has led us to this huge waste of public funds when fellow South Africans are unemployed and live in poverty. This is the money that could have been used to assist South Africans to start small and the medium businesses to create jobs.

Despite all this, Mr Zuma is currently appealing a decision by the High Court on his midnight Cabinet reshuffle and is using public fund notwithstanding the fact that the hon Judge indicated that there were no merits of a successful appeal. Small and medium enterprises are the drivers of job creation. In Singapore, small enterprises make up to 99% of enterprises and they employ two-thirds


of the workforce and accounts for about half of Singapore‘s gross domestic product, GDP.

Here is the contrast, here in South Africa, 23 years since democracy we still have no database of how much has been spent on small and medium enterprises since the advent of democracy. We still do not know how many ordinary South Africans were assisted with finance to start-up businesses; how many have grown their business; how many jobs did they create. Therefore, this remains unknown and this is the budget we are called to support.

Under the ANC-led government, we have a bloated Public Service comprising of a whopping 40 government departments when we need less than half of them. These departments are simply created to dispense patronage to the ANC leaders to unduly enrich themselves. We cannot accept this and these departments some of them are really irrelevant like the Department of Economic Development; its mandate cuts across in various other departments. Why do we have to spend the money in this? Here is my point.

The ANC is not only failing to govern; the ANC that once lived and was a glorious movement is no more. The ANC has died; it is dead and the ANC that we grew up to respect is dead ashes to ashes. As the


saying goes, hon members, life must go on. There is life beyond the ANC. [Interjections.]

The DA is alive, diverse and dynamic and ready to govern; we have got a traceable where we govern we govern well. We hold our public representatives accountable. This is something the ANC needs to learn. This is something the ANC does not get. As I conclude, the DA does not support this budget.

Tat‘uMandela said, I remind you once again:

If the ANC does to you what the apartheid government did to you then you must do to the ANC what you did to the apartheid government.

The people will mobilise, they are marching right now; they are restless because the ANC is failing our people, and in 2019 the ANC will be voted out of power. Come 2019, we are ready.


Umbutho wabantu –I_ANC esakhula siyihlonipha, iphelile loo nto leyo. Lo mbutho ayisenguwo laa mbutho wooTata uMandela, umbutho esasiwazi


wooChris Hani, ooTata uSisulu nooTata u-Oliver Tambo kuba lo ukhoyo ngoku ngowohlohlesakhe. Abantu emakhaya banele kuba i-ANC ...


... the ANC cannot help itself. The ANC will never self correct. We have heard this over and over again. Time has come that the new government is ushered; 2019 we are coming, we are ready to govern. I thank you. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon House Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Minister, hon members and special delegates, ladies and gentlemen, this debate takes place during the month of June, which is our Youth Month in South Africa.

Oliver Tambo, whose centenary birthday we are celebrating this year, once said the following with regard to the youth: ―A country, a movement, a person that does not value its youth and children does not deserve its future.‖ So, with these two celebratory events in mind, the question that we have to ask ourselves is whether we are doing enough for our youth to meet the expectations of Oliver Tambo.

The most fundamental problem facing young people today is unemployment. Consequently, the challenge of unemployment means more


financial worries, frustration and discouragement. Unfortunately, many of our youth may not be sufficiently mature to cope with such problems. As a result, they go in the undesirable direction of delinquency, drugs, vandalism, criminality, and so on. As a result of this reality, they will then compensate for their feelings by taking part in public protests and, at some point, destroy the very same infrastructure developed to improve their living conditions.

Mr G MICHALAKIS: Hon House Chairperson, I am still looking for an ANC member with a spine. Would the hon Dikgale take my question, please?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Michalakis, please relax. I‘m debating. Listen.

These problems are invariably compounded by peer pressure, whereby young people are forced, either consciously or unconsciously, to become involved in those antisocial activities.

The National Development Plan, NDP, projects that, by 2030, our population will be 70% youth. The demographic trends, such as an increase in youth populations that do not coincide with commensurate employment or other opportunities for growth and personal


development, will ultimately exacerbate the multidimensional risk factors, such as increased poverty and inequality, inadequate services and health provisions.

Recently, Statistics SA released a report which shows that the unemployment rate in South Africa increased to 27,7% in the first quarter of 2017. This is up from 26,5% in the previous period of 2016. This, it says, is the highest jobless rate since the first quarter of 2004 as unemployment rose faster than employment and more people joined the labour force.

The report further shows that the number of unemployed persons rose by 433 000 to 6,2 million, the highest since at least 2001. Of the
433 000 people who joined the ranks of the unemployed in the first quarter of 2017, approximately 58% were young people between the ages of 15 and 34. This translates into the youth unemployment rate in South Africa having decreased to 50,9% in the fourth quarter of 2016, from 54,2% in the third quarter of 2016. However, the report also shows that employment went up by 144 000 to 16,2 million. Job gains occurred in the formal nonagricultural sector and in private households, but losses were recorded in the informal sector and in agriculture. All in all, the labour force increased by 577 000 to


22,42 million, and those detached from it fell by 421 000 to 14,63 million.

These statistics, hon Ministers, should have us concerned. This is more so because our economic growth plan, the NDP, states that unemployment should be 14% by 2020, and we have only two-and-a-half years left to reach that target. At the rate at which we are going, we might miss this target. In fact, Statistician-General Pali Lehohla, states that the gap to 2020 currently stands at
13,7 percentage points.

What is the underlying cause of this slow economic growth? One possibility is that the recovery from the wrenching global financial crisis we experienced in 2008-09 is a slow process. There is merit to this view. Economists tell us that a recovery from a bad financial crisis can take a long time – as long as seven years, on average. So, it is possible that what we are experiencing is one of these slow recoveries. What worries us most, however, is that we are already in the eighth year since the global financial crisis, and our situation seems to be worsening instead of recovering.

It is imperative that we must change course. Unlike those who are always complaining and not proposing solutions, I am going to


propose what policymakers can do to improve our economy‘s growth prospects. One topic that I will spend a few minutes on is the important role our education sector plays in promoting long-run economic growth. This has now become a significant national policy issue, garnering great debate about whether the sector is keeping up in a world driven by rapid global integration and disruptive technological change.

There is no doubt that education provides stimulus to economic growth, as it teaches honesty, patriotism and adventure. Thus, education works as an engine for economic development. As one Prof Krause has observed: ―Education brings revolutions in ideas for economic progress.‖

I have heard employers often complaining about vacancies they cannot fill because of the lack of qualified young people. This is the so- called skills mismatch. The mismatch between what our education sector offers and what employers need is, indeed, real – and it is probably one reason why our economic growth has been slow in coming out of recession. Here is the problem. Economists tell us that a mismatch between supply and demand for particular goods, services or skills should not be a cause for concern. In a market-based economy,


mismatches work themselves out through changes in prices that elicit the appropriate responses in demand and supply.

However, the education sector is unique in this regard. It is, surely, at the heart of a knowledge-based economy that is not set up to respond swiftly to changes in business demands for new and old skills. This is especially true when these changes are not marginal in nature. Even when a specific skill set is in demand and a change in curriculum occurs to meet this, there is significant lag time involved in producing a pipeline of graduates who have acquired these skills.

One thing that our education system must improve on is entrepreneurship studies. Both the government and business must join hands to put serious, tangible measures in place to remedy the growing mismatch between the offerings of the education sector and the demands of business. I think these will be good beginnings but, with the help of policymakers and lawmakers, more can be done.

The NDP projects that, by 2030, no less than 90% of new jobs will be created in small and expanding firms. In order to survive, these small businesses have little choice but to be versatile, innovative and entrepreneurial, as SMMEs seldom have a monopoly. However, our


SMMEs seem not to be competitive enough, globally. The International Institute for Management Development‘s World Competitiveness Yearbook 2016 ranks South Africa 53rd out of the 61 countries ranked on the overall competitiveness scoreboard. Of the Brics countries, only Brazil, in 56th place, is ranked below South Africa.

This means that to incubate entrepreneurship, South Africa needs bold improvements in the education and school system. Interestingly enough, South Africa‘s total public expenditure on education as a percentage of GDP - at 7% - puts the country in the third highest position among the 61 countries ranked, with only Denmark and Iceland above it. This means that, of the Brics countries, we are number one when it comes to investment in education. I think we deserve a round of applause. [Applause.] However, our results in entrepreneurship scores suggest the opposite. This is why our schools must teach our youth to be entrepreneurs.

The NDP also envisages that, in 2030, the economy should be close to full employment; equip people with the skills they need; ensure that ownership of production is more diverse and able to grow rapidly; and provide the resources to pay for investment in human and physical capital. It is for this reason that the ANC-led government continues to create an enabling environment for investment in our


economy through the adoption of progressive policies and working together with the private sector. This it does through various structures, such as the National Economic Development and Labour Council and labour and business working groups, to mention but a few.

In this regard, the government has established the Employment Tax Incentive to further create an enabling environment for youth employment creation. Furthermore, government has set aside an amount of R1,7 billion to provide support for small and medium enterprises owned by young people.

In my province, Limpopo, Premier Chupu Mathabatha stated in his state of the province address earlier this year that his government will continue to support SMMEs and co-operatives to obtain growth, increase skills levels and, more importantly, create more jobs. He committed 10% of government procurement in Limpopo towards building SMMEs and co-operatives.

He also said that all major projects must have a localisation procurement thrust to ensure that SMMEs and co-operatives are developed into credible suppliers. The Limpopo Economic Development Agency, Leda, has been tasked to provide the necessary support to


both the SMME and co-operative sectors. Emphasis has been placed on having a bias towards co-operatives in our villages and on the vast farmlands of Limpopo to stimulate the rural economy. As a result, the Limpopo Department of Economic Development, Environment and Tourism has signed memorandums of understanding with Productivity South Africa and the SA Bureau of Standards to achieve these, and, indeed ...


... mošito o tšwela pele.


During the recent Limpopo Economic Summit, it was announced that more black people, and, in particular, women in rural areas and people with disabilities are forming and managing co-operatives. The Limpopo Department of Economic Development, Environment and Tourism is currently monitoring the performance of 720 SMMEs and 240 co- operatives spread throughout the province. The department is also assisting 10 SMMEs and 10 co-operatives to access markets.

The provincial government, together with Leda, has partnered with the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, in an ambitious project to revitalise the Seshego Industrial Park. This industrial park,


located near Polokwane, is undergoing a R21 million facelift as part of the first phase of the DTI‘s R189 million Industrial Parks Revitalisation Programme. The programme is aimed at promoting industrialisation, increasing job creation and stimulating the economy.

In March this year, the former Deputy Minister of Small Business Development, Ms Elizabeth Thabethe, hosted the Youth Business EXPO in Polokwane, in partnership with the Polokwane Local Municipality. It focused on empowering youth co-operatives, SMMEs and inspiring youth entrepreneurs by, among other things, creating awareness about the products and services that are offered by the department and its agencies.

There is also the Matsila Development Trust Incubation, which has been funded by the department‘s Enterprise Incubation Programme to a total of R8 million. The fund will assist the trust to uplift the Matsila community by enhancing their entrepreneurial skills throughout the Vhembe District Municipality and beyond the Limpopo province.


As the people of Limpopo, we can only applaud our ANC-led government at all levels of government and encourage them to keep it up. In my language, we would say ...


...šatee! Yo a sa rego šate o a duma.


My parting shot to you, Ministers, would be this. Let‘s engage all the stakeholders, especially the institutions of higher learning and business, to come up with a plan for entrepreneurship studies. If we do that, we will be able to show that we value our youth and children, as O R Tambo expected us to do. The growth and flourishing of small businesses is key to our future. I thank you, Chairperson.

Ms N P KONI: House Chairperson, let me take this opportunity and greet all the EFF members, followers and voters out there. Today Statistics SA just released first quarter gross domestic product, GDP, figures and it is beyond any reasonable doubt that South Africa‘s economy is in deep crisis.

While some will be quick to tell us that it is a technical recession, it is a recession nonetheless and it is one that has long


been coming. The decrease of 0,3% in the fourth quarter of 2016 and the decrease of 0,7% in the first quarter of 2017 is just the surface. These figures only highlight the problem in the surface but there are deeper issues rooted in structural challenges our economy face and we will highlight just a few.

The decision to outsource the management of macroeconomic policy to global capital, financialise our economy and the continuous failure to lead a coherent and clear industrial policy is just a few but important reasons.

This begs the question as to why the Department of Economic Development exist. Today, all we have is paper economy; an economy that can crumble over night and cannot even produce a basic thing like teaspoon and yet, there are others who want to tell us about socioeconomic radical transformation.

Until such time that we put a clear and coherent industrial policy, a policy that will clearly articulate the role of the state, control and ownership of means of production for the collective instead of accumulation for few, we will continue to witness this circus of the so called South Africa economy. As a result, we will forever be


indebted to international moneylenders and answer to their every demand.

Not so long ago, on this very podium, two members were sweating and requesting for water and tissues; they were dramatic and grandstanding, not because this room is hot but it is because they do not know where they stand with regards to the leaked emails.

As a result, we will forever be indebted to international moneylenders and answer to their every demand. It is also not too late to close this department and move its function back to the Department of Trade and Industry to ensure co-ordination between the industrial policies, economic policies and the role of state-owned entities. This is linked to the role of small business and their role in the economy.

There is no hope for any development of domestic productive industries in South Africa that will happen now and in the near future as long as anything that anyone, especially small businesses, want to produce can be imported for lower prices from Asia, Europe and other places.


Government does not impose any restrictions; there is really no hope for development of productive industry, let alone small business development as long as South Africa continues to abide by the World Trade Organisations, WTO, agreements when the last 20 years have clearly demonstrated that it is not favourable to our borders.

Cheap imports do not benefit anyone; they do not benefit the customers or the economy and the impact in the long run is catastrophic. The failure of the ANC to understand this simple logic clearly illustrates ideological bankruptcy.

This is what the EFF will do when in government in 2019 - bear that in mind: We will start by protecting our economic borders. We will ensure that all retails, large and small, source majority of their products from local producers and we will start with Pick and Pay; small farmers must have guarantee market to sell their products with state subsidies; small textile producers must get state contracts to supply hospitals, clinics and prisons with uniform and linen; small electronics producers must produce microphones, projectors and other products with state contracts; and small services companies work hand in hand with state owned institutions to play active role in the economy. This will only happen when our economic borders are protected.


Hon House Chairperson, what makes the situation of this department even worse is that the department was created when there was no need for a department, but because Mr Zuma needed to expand his network of patronage and reward his stooges, we have an unnecessary department today.

It is for years now and we are still in the process of establishing this department. There is no strategy to monitor big contracts to subcontract 30% to black-owned businesses. There is no strategy to co-ordinate functions related to small business development.
Instead, a big chunk of the department‘s budget is allocated to administration for salaries ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni, can you take your seat? Hon Mthimunye, why are you standing?

Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: I am standing on two point House Chair: To check if the speaker is ready to take a question and also on a point of privilege. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, let us deal with one at a time. Hon Koni, are you ready to take a question?


Ms N P KONI: I think we take the same bus to Acacia Park. Thank you very much.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): She is not ready to take your question.

Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: The second one is on a point of privilege House Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay.

Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Can I proceed?


Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: House Chair, it is absolute fallacy that the economic policies of this country have not worked; this country has created more than ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mthimunye, can you take your seat? You cannot debate with the speaker at the podium. Can you continue hon Koni?


Ms N P KONI: People like hon Mthimunye love TV too much and we don‘t entertain such people.

There is no strategy to co-ordinate functions related to small business development. Instead, a big chunk of the department‘s budget is allocated to administration for salaries of ANC deployees.

We are still not sure what Small Enterprise Finance Agency, SEFA, is doing but what we know is that tax payers‘ money is wasted.

The EFF rejects both budget votes. We will not party to waste of tax payers‘ money. I thank you very much House Chairperson.

Mr L B GAEHLER: House Chairperson, initiatives such as Black Industrialist Program and the set-asides that seek to give meaning to the radical economic transformation targeting all the people not the selective elite are appreciated.

It is a matter of fact that economic transformation is at the snail‘s pace owing to the modelling that is used to transform the economy. The recent report on high unemployment rate, sitting at 27,7% is worrisome.


The high unemployment rate suggests that the patterns of ownership of the means of production have not changed and so we can‘t talk about transformation if the model has not changed, and we cannot expect different results until we deal with the fundamentals.

Government‘s model of delivering infrastructure also plays a critical role in crowding small business by using government implementing agencies. Small businesses have been relegated to the end of the value chain and that affects the transformation ... In that they assume the role being at the periphery of the mainstream of the economy. The UDM wishes to point to the fact there are some

IsiXhosa: 18:12:20

... ngekuba ndifuna amanzi ntonje ndoyika lo sisi. [Kwahlekwa.]


... other aspects of the economy that have been neglected such as creative industry.

This sector has a huge potential to reduce the rate of unemployment. We often get surprised that those who are behind the scenes in the


performing industry are the ones who create wealth through the sector.

The last element is the social entrepreneurship. This again has been seriously ignored simply because there isn‘t much about profit ...
Thank you, ... to alleviate poverty.

The UDM suggests that we need to move to sectors that would have to absorb many people in the employment. The South African brand, internally and externally has not been managed to its potential. Its economic perceptions are mostly created by people who are hostile to its political status quo.

As such, tourism makes up an average of 9% in global GDP, yet for South Africa tourism contributes only about 3% of its GDP. Meanwhile, tourism is good for creating jobs in industries such as travel, hotels and construction.

It is effective in growing infrastructure and creating employment. In fact, Egypt managed to overtake South Africa as the second biggest economy in the continent through tourism.


The 30-day payment system is working on paper but unfortunately it doesn‘t work for our people. In some instances, the government hasn‘t been paying suppliers for over two years. It is the truth of the matter that some of them have gone dawn because they aren‘t paid in time.

Our economic policy is good but benefits a selected few. What I mean by selected few is that if you look at our economy ...


... ukuba ngaba uyijonge kakuhle...


... It‘s certain surnames that benefit - those who are in government.


Injalo kanye loo nto leyo, uyithanda ungayithandi.


You will see the Magashules and the Zumas. It benefits those people, for instance.you would not have...



... oonyana booZuma bebancinci...


... that are millionaires.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Gaehler, can you please take your seat, my apologies. Let me take hon Mokwele.

Ms T J MOKWELE: My apologies, hon member. Chair, you know there is a rented mob there. She is alone and making noise at the gallery. She is a rented person. Just tell her that she is making noise. We are not afraid of her. She must come down and deal with the issues.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay. Let me deal with it. I was not aware I always thought it‘s somebody from that side.

Ms T J MOKWELE: No. She knows herself. It‘s a rented person.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can the person who ... [Interjections.]


Ms T J MOKWELE: She is a rented person. Look, you see! She is from Gugulethu. She doesn‘t even have ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No. Hon Mokwele. I am sustaining your order but I am dealing with it. Can the person at the gallery refrain from participating? You are not allowed to participate in this debate. Hon Gaehler, can you continue?

IsiXhosa: 18:

Ndiyambona ukuba unovelwano, Sihlalo. Nafika apha phambi kowe-1994, kukho oosomashishini abantsundu beqhuba amashishini abo ezivenkileni nakwezinye iindawo. Namhlanje, amashishini eevenkile awaqhutywa nagabantu abantsundu, amashishini okwakha awaqhutywa ngabantu abantsundu, nezinye endingazikhankanyanga.

Uninzi lwala mashishini aavala ngenxa yemithetho yenu eningayilandeleli kakuhle kodwa namhlanje uya kufumanisa ukuba kuwo onke amasebe kukho izizalwana zabantu abaziwayo ombutho we-ANC abaqhuba amashishini nabaxhamlayo.



... Why should a selected few benefit from the government when we all pay taxes? If you say all the people must benefit from government, it is a government of the people ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Gaehler!


Mnu L B GAEHLER: Hayi alikapheli ixesha lam apha.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No! I am presiding. Don‘t assist me. Take your seat. I am not saying your time is expired. Hon Mthimunye, why are standing?

Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Is it parliamentary for a speaker to mislead the public?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Take your seat, hon Mthimunye. Hon members, in terms of our Rules when dealing with offensive and unbecoming language, it is unparliamentary to make the statement in the House knowing very well that it is false. Should anyone at the podium make a statement, they must be able to substantiate that statement. Continue hon Gaehler!



Mnu L B GAEHLER: Andinangxaki kulo nto leyo. Indawo yokuqala, xa uvula amaphephandaba ufunda ngorhwaphilizo okanye into yokuba kutya abantu abathile. Injalo loo nto, uyithanda ungayithandi.


You can buy tomorrow‘s paper, everyday there is corruption or it affects top people in the ruling party.


Kutheni le nto kufuneka kuxhamle abantu abathile kwezoqoqosho endaweni yokuba kuxhamle abantu bakuthi bebonke?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Gaehler! Hon Mthimunye!


Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: You see what I mean by misleading, House Chairperson? The source of information is newspaper.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, Hon Mthimunye! You can‘t be debating with him. Can you take your seat? Continue hon Gaehler! [Laughter.] Hon Dlamini, why are you standing?

Ms L C DLAMINI: House Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. Is it parliamentary for a member to debate looking at one person? Hon Mthethwa.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): It is not a point of order. Take your seat. Can you continue ho Gaehler?

Mr L B GAEHLER: I am sorry she is worried. I am not looking at her. Now I am looking at you.


Namhlanje sisi, ungaya koomasipala naphina, uya kufumanisa ukuba iziniki-maxabiso zinikwa abantwana nabazukulwana benu. Sikwembi ingxaki kuba thina apha sifuna uqoqosho oluza kuxhamla abantu bonke baseMzantsi Afrika, kungaxhamli ooDlamini bodwa. Abantu bonke baseMzantsi Afrika mabaxhamle ukuba ngaba sikhululekile. Enkosi.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Are we having the wrong speakers‘ list?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes. You have the wrong speakers‘ list. Rely on me as I am presiding.

Ms T J MOKWELE: But you must tell us who is coming.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I have that.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Please?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I have invited the person who is supposed to be at the podium. And it‘s the right one. Hon Sekoati, can you continue?


TOURISM): Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, Minister Lindiwe Zulu and Ebrahim Patel and Deputy Minister Masuku, members of the august House, MECs present, it is a great honour and privilege to form part of this important debate today. The programs highlighted by this debate increase confidence and provide a clear roadmap in addressing challenges in the economy and are the key to improving investment, growth and inclusivity.


In line with what both Minister Patel and Minister Zulu had to say, development of sustainable entrepreneurship is at the centre of economic growth and job creation. We, in Limpopo, are leaving no stone unturned in ensuring effective alignment with key priorities of this debate and the nine-point plan. The province is facing challenges and opportunities in relation to: Skewed distribution of resources; high unemployment, especially amongst the youth; low economic growth rates; low levels of industrialisation and investment; weak LED institutional capacity at municipal level.

In addressing this challenge, the province has established the Limpopo Development Plan, LDP, which is aligned to the National Development Plan to realise our inclusive growth objective. I would like to take this opportunity to agree with Minister Patel in terms of what needs to be done, which is, ―To ignite the growth potential of the economy, increase job creation and deepen the impact of funding,‖ as asserted by the Minister.

As Limpopo province we are providing financial and nonfinancial support to over 1 200 SMMEs to the tune of over R100 million during 2016-I7 financial year alone, which is assisted by the Limpopo Economic Development Agency. We have also mobilised national and provincial development finance institutions, DFIs, to support our


drive to establish targeted one-stop shops in the districts of our province.

Let me take this opportunity to appreciate the support by the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, to funding Black Industrialist Program within the province of Limpopo, which has committed a tune of R640 million. On the same vein, we would like to also welcome the partnership that we have with the IDC in vitalising the industrial parks in the province, of which Phase 1 has also been completed in Seshego. We are rolling over to Nkowankowa Industrial Park, which will be followed by Thohoyandou Industrial Park in the province.

We would also like to welcome the catalytic Lephalale water pipeline infrastructure development which we believe will also go further in unlocking the potential in the Waterberg District Municipality. In addressing the economic inequalities, Minister Patel highlights that we must, ―Transform the economy to make it more inclusive, bringing black South Africans, young people, the rural poor and the urban unemployed into the economy‖.

To heed this call by the Ministers, we as Limpopo are further embarking on a road show to practically revitalise Limpopo‘s


townships and villages through the revitalisation strategy which would be finalised during this financial year. These provincial efforts are to address challenges relating to the sustainability of traditional township and village enterprises.

The implementation of the Limpopo Business Registration Act of 2012, known as Libra, has been decentralised to municipalities and thus will go a long way in strengthening the local business environment in Limpopo. In our transformation efforts, we have also finalised a policy to transform the provincial tourism reserves to partner and benefit SMMEs and communities living adjacent to this facilities.

We do acknowledge and agree with Minister Patel as he assesses that China is now Africa‘s largest partner and that this relationship needs to be managed. Limpopo‘s relationship with China is being strengthened and elevated to the highest level as we are concluding South Africa‘s largest agreement with China into the Musina—Makhado Special Economic Zone project, SEZ project, to invest over
R40 billion to create an estimated 19 000 direct jobs.

As Limpopo, we welcome the introduction of National SMME Policy Master Plan by Minister Zulu which we believe will present us a guiding tool to develop sustainable SMMEs. In my conclusion, we are


putting local economic development at the centre of sustainable development. We appreciate the support from the Department Economic Development which they continue to provide to strengthen and support local economic developments, LEDs, in the province.

Furthermore, we need to double our own efforts, together with all our stakeholders, to tackle the problem of illegal mining in the province of Limpopo as it presents a challenge and threat to the mining sector. We would also like to continue to strengthen our co- ordination with national departments in pursuing the ideals that our people have always aspired for. As Limpopo province we welcome and support the budget speeches by both Ministers of Economic Development and Small Business Development. Ke a leboga [Thank you]. [Applause.]


Ministers, Deputy Ministers, members of the NCOP and distinguished guests, thank you for the opportunity to participate in this important debate on Vote 31 – Economic Development. Let me join Minister Zulu and Minister Patel to say we are really presenting this budget in difficult times. For us to get out of this, it is important to realise what Einstein advised that the problem cannot be fixed by applying remedies that created it. We need a serious


change of gear, real brake from the past, a true radical socioeconomic transformation programme that unleashed the energies of all the people of South Africa towards prosperity.

At the centre of this harnessing of potential entrepreneurial capacity wherever it is found becomes critical. Initiatives at the provincial level and local spheres that align themselves to the national goals are critical to bringing the needed radical challenge.

Hon Magwebu presented what sounded like a memorised if not a plagiarised speech that I have heard from the members of the DA in the National Assembly, which is repeated almost each an every year. He says we do not know what we are doing. We say we do not have statistics on the programme on Small Medium and Micro Enterprises, SMMEs. He then says they want to govern in 2019. Sithanda singathandi. [Like it or not.] [Interjections.]

He then dips his head on all the possible negatives he has gotten hold off in the street to prove his point. If you listened to him, he then says, where they govern, they are making progress. However, as they speak in all their speeches, you never hear them saying,


however, we are defaulting here and there. They cannot do so, because it is only the ANC that can do that. [Applause.]

It is the ANC that can only do that because it has committed itself to democratic principles, where you tell no lies and claim no easy victories and you tell the stories as they are. [Applause.] Let me just walk you through if you were not living in South Africa and if you do not know what the ANC did. From 1994, the ANC assured democracy. In 1997, a Constitution that we all hail today was adopted and in 1997 again what is called a stabilisation policy today was adopted, to clear off all the nonsense that was previously here.

In 1999, the Public Finance Management Act that we are all using for accountability and the fiscal discipline was brought about.

In 2009, a commission that has given us the National Development Plan was established.

In 2010, we adopted a growth path ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Deputy Minister, can you take your seat. Hon Chabangu, why are you standing?


Mr M M CHABANGU: Hon House Chairperson, can I ask the Deputy Minister a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Chabangu, no you cannot ask, yes you can, however, you first have to ascertain whether the Deputy Minister is ready to take a question. Hon Deputy Minister are you ready to take a question? Hon Chabangu, please take your seat.
Let us ascertain first. Hon Deputy Minister, are you ready to take a question from the hon Chabangu?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Hon House Chairperson, no. It is principled that when somebody is presenting all the time
... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Deputy Minister, please continue. [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Because he is from Mpumalanga, you do not ask him to sit down! [Interjections.]


adopted a growth path.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Masuku, hon Masuku, can you take your seat please, there is a point of order.

Ms N P KONI: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes hon member, what is your point of order?

Ms N P KONI: Hon Chairperson, my point of order is: When I was on the podium an ANC celebrity would stand up raising a useless point of order, you would always say I must sit down. So, can the member on the podium also do so.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He has done that.

Ms N P KONI: But hon Chabangu was addressing you and you never made him to sit down. Please let us be consistent.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, I have requested him to do that.

Ms N P KONI: Let us be consistent in everything, everything, including sitting down and standing up.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes. Alright. Hon member, can you now take your seat. Order, hon members! Hon Dlamini, hon Dlamini, let us allow the hon Deputy Minister Masuku, to continue with the debate.


we adopted a growth path that has kept us afloat up to this far. Hon Koni, says you know what, you do not have anything such as the industrial policy. In 2010, we adopted an Industrial Policy Action Plan which is promoting industrialisation, local procurement and supplier development. And in 2015, we have just consolidated it into a Nine-Point Plan. This Nine-Point Plan includes the development of SMMEs and villages.

Since then, as you have heard from the MECs ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, you cannot debate with the speaker on the podium.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: ... we have aligned all the lower spheres to this purpose and in the past we have put a lot of energy in ensuring a synergy between these national and lower structures. Out of this work, we can today say that all provinces


are aligned to our path as you would have listened as we were speaking. [Applause.]

The next point that we are actually going to, is to target three provinces, where we are going to target all the policy pronouncements that we have to trigger and make those things happen. [Interjections.]

In the previous year, we have also worked and are now focusing on youth entrepreneurship. What we have done is: We have worked with the National Youth Chamber for Commerce and Industry, to identify all the policies that have been announced by this national government and to identify actions that we must take. This national youth chamber, I must point out to you that it has already achieved a number of things.

In Mpumalanga it has created a youth portal which both government and they the private sector are using to identify young people development.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Deputy Minister, can you take your seat. Hon Julius.


Mr J W W JULIUS: Thank you, Chair. Hon Deputy Minister, I am sorry, I just wanted to know whether the Deputy Minister will at this stage please take a question. I am humbly appealing to you Sir.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Deputy Minister, are you ready to take a question from the hon Julius?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No. Continue hon Deputy Minister.


chamber has also now focused at the local level to make a reality out of the 30% procurement policy. They have now worked with Mbombela itself to develop a framework with which a portal is going to be used to be able to identify young people and young entrepreneurs that can be able to implement the 30% as set aside. [Applause.]

I also want to announce today that yesterday they have just sent me a letter that comes from the National Treasury that it is agreeing to say we are going to use your portal and we are going to identify


young people with potential to grow, so that we can send it to the different departments to be able to assist them. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, economic growth in South Africa is largely disfigured by the negative circumstances around the governance of our country. The economies around the world have in the past years suffered the consequences of the economic downturn. Quite admittedly, these are challenging times during which governments should be nursing economic situations in order to achieve situations conducive to economic growth.

The irony of the situation is that South Africa is bulldozing her situation more and more into economic dungeon. The decision to abruptly dislodge the hon Nene, resulting to economic losses amounting to more than R500 billion, the resent midnight Cabinet reshuffle resulting to economic downgrades plunging South Africa into junk status, the economic and the financial instability of the country‘s state-owned enterprises, SOEs, caused at the most by management insecurities and highly reported matters of corruption, all these have had an impact negatively contributing to retarding the economic growth of the country.


The result of these has been amongst other things the rising of the unemployment rate, which has reached unprecedented levels for the first time since 2003. More and more industries are shutting down and relocating like it has happened with General Motors.

Industries are suffering economic losses and are retrenching staff as it has been experienced in the poultry industry around the country. Not long ago, South Africa used to be envied by many as investment destination of note in the continent and in the world. However, of late due to jitters in the administration, investor confidence is plummeting at a fast pace.

One economist writing in the Sunday newspaper had this to say about our economic situation in the country and I quote, ―South Africa‘s current economic woes can largely be blamed on the vagaries of globalisation and failure of the ANC government to implement its much-vaunted economic policies.‖ He went on to say and I quote again, ―The country‘s problems are, however, exacerbated by an organised conspiracy to raid its national purse by a few economic hit men aided and abetted by an impervious President.‖

This explains that in addition to economic competitions in the market with other countries at growing our economy, South Africa is


also facing another very dangerous competitor internally. These competitors are what some economists refer to as hit men. They are waiting like vultures and hawks with every move, waiting to assault our economy for their personal gains. The problem here may not be the Ministers and their persons and the problem here may not be the policies, the elephant in the room is the connected opportunists who are connected to the masters of your Ministries, hon Ministers.

The Department of Small Business Development has suffered from its inception in attempt to grow the Small Medium and Micro Enterprise, SMMEs, and co-operatives. The major issue is the financial exclusion in the markets. The co-operatives are crawling and falling. The SMMEs are never growing to their required potential. However, how do you provide financial assistance when every given opportunity at the financial aid is manipulated by the hit men who do not care about the economic growth of the country?

When the Department of Small Business Development was established, the IFP believed that it was not necessary to split small business development from the economic development mainstream. However, there are many who believed that with the establishment of the department, the small business entrepreneur was going to get the necessary focus and attention from government. The hopes are rather fading away. The


small business entrepreneur and the co-operatives instead continue to be ripped off by the demands of brown envelope deals before they can be awarded a tender in government. [Interjections.]

Hon Minister, this has to stop. The small business entrepreneur is facing SA Revenue Service, Sars, on the one hand and the brown envelope deals on the other hand, against this kind of circumstance the SMMEs and co-operatives are having it very hard.


Ukugwaza nokugwazisa sekuwaqedile amabhizinisi amancane alabo abasafufusa. Bathengiswa umsebenzi ngempoqo zonke izinkalo.
Sekuphenduke kwangathi iyona impilo indaba yokugwazela umsebenzi. Kulabo abangakwenzi, amabhizinisi abo ayawa. Lendlela yokucosha umsebenzi isiphenduke yaba yiyona impilo yokumisa ibhizinisi labasafufusa. Iqembu leNkatha linxusa umnyango ukuba ubavikele osomabhizinisi. Ake banikwe umsebenzi ngangokufaneleka kwabo ukwenza umsebenzi, hayi ngokuthi ubani ofumbathise ubani. Hawu! Hulumeni!
Labhubha izwe lethu ekhona uHulumeni. Inkohlakalo yamathenda aphuma ngomkhoshosho ixake ukwenza, kepha kube kuthiwa kuthithukiswa izinkampani ezifufusayo. Zizothuthuka kanjani uma ukuthi kufakwa ngapha kube kuthathwa ngaleya.



In his book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, John Perkins describes an economic hit man as and I quote:

Politically exposed persons who raid and expatriate funds from developing countries‘ national coffers with the tacit knowledge and connivance of the country‘s rulers under the pretext of providing ―much-needed‖ public infrastructure.

Hon Chair, how well this practice and description fits the South African scenario at present. It fits like a glove. [Ithi khaxa.] In South Africa, some time ago, we use to hear and learn about such practices from a distance in some countries in Africa. The practice has now come to catch up with us. One would have hoped that South Africa should have learned more and practice more, the principles and aspirations of Agenda 2063, especially aspiration three which talks about good governance. To the contrary, the looting of our economy and resources by the economic hit men is getting worse day- by-day. Hence the widening in inequality gap, the rising unemployment, the unending reliance on the social security programmes of the country. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]


Mr J M MTHETHWA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Patel, hon Minister Ndabezitha Mageba, hon Deputy Minister November, hon Deputy Minister Masuku, hon members, special delegates, people on the gallery, good afternoon comrades, allow me to take this moment to pay homage to an illustrious son of our country and a leader of our congress movement, President Oliver Reginald Tambo. President Tambo would have turned 100 years old this year had he lived. This selfless patriot dedicated his adult life to a tireless pursuit of the liberation of our country and its people.

He left a lasting legacy not only for our glorious movement, the African National Congress, but also the people of South African whose struggles remained the source of inspiration for the fight against apartheid. In honour of this selfless fighter and a champion of the plight of our people, we have declared the year 2017, the Year of Oliver Reginald Tambo. It is the year of unity in action by all South Africans, as we move South Africa forward, together.

Hon Chairperson, in the first two decades of our freedom significant progress was made in meeting the basic needs of our people. [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Mthethwa. Can we have the people who normally assist us to help people who disturb us? It is getting out of order and I have warned you to stop what you are doing. Hon Mthethwa, you can continue. Order members!

Mr J M MTHETHWA: As the African National Congress we appreciate that these shortcomings reflect the fact that the constraints to South Africa‘s growth and economic transformation are deep and structural. They are also thoroughly entrenched by the long years of the discriminatory nature of our historical political context. In the light of these challenges, the ANC at its 53rd National Conference resolved to take resolute action to transform the structure of the economy through industrialisation, broad-based black economic empowerment, addressing the basic needs of our people, including women and youth, strengthening and expanding the role of the state and the role of state-owned enterprises.

In order to give effect to these policy positions, the ANC government has three interrelated and mutually reinforcing policy instruments within the framework of the NDP: Firstly, the national infrastructure plan; secondly, the New Growth Path, and; thirdly, the Industrial Policy Action Plan which guides the reindustrialisation of the South African economy.


Hon Chairperson, the Department of Economic Development has a crucial role to play in the struggle for economic transformation. In particular, the department is responsible for the implementation of the objectives of the policy instruments mentioned above. It has the responsibility to co-ordinate the formulation of cross sector policy programmes that seek to create noticeable economic ... reported that from its vantage point. Government has not fully achieved its goals for [rural] areas. It recommended that urbanisation and spatial development require a better planning framework for the country and it is proving to be a lot more complex than initially anticipated.

The Department must be commended for the work it has done in overseeing the public institutions that finance development projects and regulate the conduct of business in order to ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mthethwa, please take your seat. Hon Chabangu, why are you standing?


Bengithanda ukubuza kumnumzane ukuthi angawuthatha yini umbuzo?


USHIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu A J Nyambi): Mhlonishwa uMthethwa, ingabe uzimisele ukuphendula umbuzo?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes, you can ask your question.


Ake ungitshele baba ukuthi le ndaba olokhu uyikhuluma yokuthi ama- SMME angakwazi ukuthi enzele abantu umsebenzi, nizoyikhona na?


Mr J M MTHETHWA: Ah! That one is easy, it was never ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, take your seat, he is going to respond. Order members! Allow him to respond ...


... ungaphendula bab‘uMthethwa.


Mnu J M MTHETHWA: Lo mbuzo wakho muhle ...


... because as the governing party it is our duty to create jobs, to take welfare of the people and make sure that we are developing this country.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mthethwa, sorry, can you take your seat. Hon Faber, why are you standing?

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I just need to make sure. Did the speaker say create jobs or create opportunities to create jobs.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): The first is the correct one; the latter part is the wrong one. [Laughter.] Continue, hon Mthethwa.

Mr J M MTHETHWA: Hon Chairperson, President Jacob Zuma has taken ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, why are you standing?


Mr J M MTHETHWA: ... responsibility to explain what he meant by radical economic transformation. It means fundamental change ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mthethwa, hon members, no! Hon Mokwele, once you make noise it becomes impossible for him to hear what I am saying. Hon Faber, why are you standing?

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I still did not get clarity, did the speaker say to create jobs or ... [ Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, just take your seat.

Mr W F FABER: ... I did not get an answer, Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you take your seat, continue hon Mthethwa.
Mr J M MTHETHWA: Systems, institutions and pattern of ownership.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mthethwa, sorry. Yes, hon Julius. Hon Mthethwa, can you take your seat.


Mr J W W JULIUS: I am sorry hon Mthethwa but Chairperson on a point of order, if a request or a point of privilege is directed to someone I do not think that you are in a position to answer it. You are presiding over ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I am not answering anything.

Mr J W W JULIUS: ... you are not a ruler in the House, you are a presiding officer, you preside over all of us when you are sitting there ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius, hon Julius!

Mr J W W JULIUS: ... I think that you are a bit biased.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius, when he was responding I was listening. So, he was asking and I am assisting him because he missed what was said by the speaker at the podium. So, he is not responding, you are out of order. Continue hon Mthethwa.

Mr J M MTHETHWA: Hon Chairperson ...


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschange, hon Mthethwa, can you take your seat.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, with all due respect, the rule in this House is that we ask the Chair if we can ask a question, you repeat that request to the speaker and you answer back by saying the speaker will take a question – yes or no. There is no rule in this Rule book that says that the speaker can be part of the debate in House. When you answers and try to clarify what the speaker is saying then you are taking part in the debate in the House.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon, hon, hon ...

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, you cannot rule. [Interjections.] I am sorry, we cannot let

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschange, can you take your seat and allow me to make a ruling?

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Hattingh, take your seat hon Mthethwa. Hon Labuschange, there unfortunate part is that you


missed what happened. It was not a question from the hon Faber, the question was from hon Chabangu and then the hon Mthethwa responded to the question. The hon Faber then asked what was said. I explained to him what was said, I was not responding to any question. So, you are totally out of order, you are not even assisting. You are quoting a correct rule but abusing it. Continue hon Mthethwa.

Mr J M MTHETHWA: Hon Chairperson, the departments in the economic cluster are working hard to fulfil the ANC government‘s commitment to drive the second more radical phase of the transition from apartheid to a national democratic society. However, state-led economic transformation does not imply ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mthethwa, sorry, can you take your seat. Yes, hon Mokwele.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Thanks Chair, I just want to check with the speaker as to how will the ANC make sure that they will render services to people whilst they are divided like they are now.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, you know that what you are doing is not in order. You first have to ascertain


whether the member is ready to take a question. Hon Mthethwa, are you ready to take a question?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He is not ready to take your question. Continue hon Mthethwa.

Mr J M MTHETHWA: Chairperson, our historical energy-intensive growth path will not be viable into the future and other comparative advantages need to be levered to promote industrial growth and job creation. But whatever reforms we embark upon to diversify and digitise our economy, we dare not lose sight of the fact that the importance of the working people in our process of building the national democratic society.

Hon Chairperson, allow me to congratulate both Ministers for presenting budget votes that seek to reassert our decisive action to transform South Africa, especially waging a concerted action in redressing the structure of the economy, apartheid spatial distortions, support beneficiation and industrialisation and contribute to facilitate intra-Africa trade. I thank you!


There is one thing that I want to say which is very important, you know in this country the Dutch came in 1652 and invaded this country. Thereafter the British came and invaded this country. They fought together in order to capture us. After they fought together in order to capture us, in 1960 they reached a union so that we have to be captured. When they reached that union they left us aside as the indigenous people of this country in order for chowing alone in this country.

We were captured by the Dutch and the British and unfortunately today some of our indigenous people are captured by the vultures of this country. Chairperson, the ANC supports this budget.

Ms T J MOKWELE: That is why you are wearing a tie

Mr J M MTHETHWA: Chairperson, can I be protected.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You are protected hon Mthethwa.

Mr J M MTHETHWA: I am protected.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, you can‘t drown the speaker at the podium.

Mr J M MTHETHWA: You know, what disappoints me is that the EFF is captured by the DA. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] The EFF ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mthethwa, can you take your seat. Hon Chabangu and hon Mokwele, why are you standing?

Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I want to make it clear to the ANC that the very same ANC we are talking about is captured by the National Party. Go back to your history, you must know that you are governing with ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Continue hon Mthethwa, that is not a point of order.

Mr J M MTHETHWA: It is very painful when ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mthethwa, please take your seat. Hon Koni, why are you standing?
Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, I want the member on the podium to withdraw the words that the EFF is captured by the DA or he must


bring proof now. It is either he withdraws or he produces proof now because he is misleading the country ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni, no. It is a debate


Ms N P KONI: ... he is saying this on national television. He is saying it on record and you are not doing anything about it. So, he must withdraw. Rule on that.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Take your seat. Continue hon Mthethwa.

Mr J M MTHETHWA: I wonder why when people are captured they jump when we talk about capturing. You are captured by the DA, you vote with the DA. You do everything with the previous oppressors of this country. I thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele.

Ms T J MOKWELE: On a point of order.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): To who?


Ms T J MOKWELE: To him, the latter speaker.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, he is already ...

Ms T J MOKWELE: No, but I must address him.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, you can‘t do that.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Yes, he must come back to the podium, because he has misled the country.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He has concluded his speech. Take your seat. Please take your seat.

Ms T J MOKWELE: You want to take me out, I know you. But this man is misleading the country. I will take a seat.

Ms D SCHAFER: Hon Chairperson, Ministers, hon Members of the NCOP, I feel that I need to start by responding to the Minister‘s introduction to this debate.

Minister Patel, you should really stop using your usual spin of numbers, and actually deal with the challenges South Africa faces.


While you talk about global uncertainties, you fail to mention the current South African political landscape of failed economic policies, red tape and sheer government looting – a landscape that is failing millions of South Africans.

Every time the Minister plays politics with the job numbers, he embarrasses the ANC at the next quarterly report.

The policies speak directly to job. How can you as hon members of the ANC talk about creating an enabling environment for jobs? You have failed on jobs and you have failed South Africa.

Just this morning, as the hon Minister has said, Statistics SA recorded a contraction in GDP for a consecutive quarter. South Africa — Africa‘s second-largest economy ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Schafer, would you please take your seat? Hon Mokwele, why are you standing?

Ms T J MOKWELE: I am rising on a point of order, Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Please state your point of order.



Moh T J MOKWELE: A sebui se ka tsaya potso?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Schafer, are you willing to take question? [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: Does she believe that Helen Zille ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, she‘s not willing to take a question! Hon Mokwele, you are out of order!

Ms D SCHAFER: So, I repeat: South Africa — Africa‘s second-largest economy — is in a recession. If the political economy is to take centre stage, this recession can then be directly linked to the severe maladministration of South Africa‘s economy at the hands of President Jacob Zuma. And if the political economy is taking centre stage then, I‘m afraid, Minister, the curtain has fallen, the lights are off, and the audience has begun walking out.

May I remind the hon members in the House that the economy is not a random entity that sits at the edge of the world; it‘s an ever-


pulsating phenomenon. [Interjections.] It‘s driven by production and consumption of goods ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Schafer, sorry ... Hon Wana? [Interjections.]

Ms T WANA: Chairperson, can the speaker take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Schafer, are you willing to take a question? [Interjections.] She‘s not willing.

Ms D SCHAFER: It‘s driven by production and consumption of goods and services and the supply of money in the country. It is a phenomenon that responds and reacts to everything. It is a representation of the sentiments of people, of government and of private sector in this country. We are deeply concerned by what we see happening in SA, and we will pay a huge price going forward.

In the Western Cape, our economic strategy is to establish and infrastructure-led business environment which will allow for the private sector to grow the economy and to create more jobs. Through Project Khulisa we have strategically identified those sectors of the Western Cape economy with the greatest potential for accelerated


and sustained growth and job creation and with the potential for creation of large numbers of entry-level jobs both in rural as well as urban areas. Five key economic sectors were prioritised to add an additional 343 000 jobs to the Western Cape economy by 2019.

We know that Khulisa is having a direct positive effect, because the Bureau for Economic Research indicates that Western Cape Business Confidence index remains increasingly positive. In the third quarter of 2016, the Western Cape Business Confidence was 48 index points,
10 index points above the national average. Business confidence — a result of good governance and sound fiscal management — leads to greater investment opportunities, which leads to more jobs and growth.

The Western Cape now has the lowest rural unemployment rate in the country, at just 14%, which, might I add, is the lowest ever recorded. This is a direct result of Khulisa implemented into our economy that speaks to the poorest of poor, and creates opportunity and growth.

While Khulisa focuses on tourism, the oil and gas sector and agriprocessing, the Western Cape also invests in strategic catalytic infrastructure projects for long-term sustainable growth. The West


Coast Industrial plan, with the investment of the Saldanha Bay Industrial Development Zone and Atlantis Greentech Special Economic Zone will see a massive boost of jobs and growth into the Western Cape economy. These jobs impact directly on rural areas outside of our metro and give opportunity and jobs for young people, and jobs for people with low skills levels.

With Khulisa, employment has increased by 40% in the agriculture and agriprocessing sectors over the past two years by more than 120 000 jobs. With Khulisa, the Western Cape has generated an additional
R3 billion for the economy by adding over half a million new 2-way direct seats through our Cape Air Access Initiative.

With all this investment and growth potential, the Western Cape has had to implement the Apprenticeship Game Changer to ensure that young people have the necessary skills for jobs in sectors where that demand is growing. We aim to assist 32 500 apprentices that will enter the labour market by 2019 to meet the needs of Project Khulisa.

Through our investment agency, Wesgro, we have secured over R5,9 billion worth of investments for the Western Cape, which resulted in 1 865 new jobs ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Schafer, sorry ... Yes, hon Motlashuping?

Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: Chair, I know that when I stand up, the whole House wakes up! Photographer in front of me ... Do your work!

I want to understand whether the economy of the country can grow when you have such deficiencies in your ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] ... because ... [Inaudible.] ... is fighting with Maimane ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Motlashuping! Hon Motlashuping! [Interjections.] No, take your seat. I‘m dealing with hon Motlashuping. Hon Motlashuping, you ... [Interjections.] This is the last time that you will receive a warning about that behaviour. Even though you are doing it for the first time, you know you can‘t stand up and ask a question. Take your seat. [Interjections.] Take your seat!

Continue, hon Schafer.

Ms D SCHAFER: Thank you. For provinces to grow economically ... [Interjections.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Schafer ... Hon Dlamini?

Ms L C DLAMINI: Chairperson, I just wanted to check whether it is parliamentary to take pictures in the House while the House is in session. Hon Hattingh took a picture of another member. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members ... [Interjections.] ... hon members ... [Interjections.] Hon Dlamini
... Order, members! Hon members, I have appealed to all of you to refrain from doing anything that diminishes the decorum of the House. All of you! Now, as we are dealing with the Rules of the NCOP, we have to deal with that part.

Continue, hon Schafer.

Ms D SCHAFER: Thank you, Chair.

For provinces to grow economically, cities must also grow. For cities to truly thrive, they need to be both internally focused and globally positioned when it comes to growing the economy. The City of Cape Town has positioned itself as a forward-thinking, globally


competitive business destination in the world. It has been listed as one of the top cities worldwide on the Global Cities of the Future, emerging as the winner for 2016-17 for foreign direct investment strategy by a division of the Financial Times. Cape Town is the only African city to appear on this prestigious ranking in the company of great global cities like Amsterdam, Miami and Auckland. [Interjections.]

In April this year, the Central City Improvement District, CCID, released a report to show that investor confidence has grown over the past five years, and Cape Town is the second biggest contributor to the national GDP. [Interjections.]

It didn‘t just happen like this. We had a vision and it was strategically planned. Since 2012, the city started an economic growth strategy to build its reputation as a place that is open for businesses. It spoke to business and investors and our government listened. It developed a checklist of indicators that were top priorities for investors. They look for reliable infrastructure, so we spend R6 billion on infrastructure annually. They look for fast internet, so we installed 848 km of fibre-optic cables across the city. Investors want to operate in an environment of clean governance, and the City delivered four clean audits consecutively.


City businesses and residents want to have a greater choice over how they consume energy and the price they pay for it. They want energy security and the City has made energy as a game changer for the Western Cape. Seeking legal advice, the City will proceed to taking the Minister of Energy to court so that it can purchase renewable energy directly from independent power producers so as to reach the goal of having 20% of energy sourced from renewable sources by 2020.

The City of Cape Town knows that that will be a complex legal battle, but we believe that the whole institutional regime governing energy in the country is completely outdated and needs to be reformed. Energy security directly links to economic growth.

The Western Cape is seeing that the green economy and water is where the greatest SME growth is occurring. We look forward to Atlantis declared a Special Economic Zone later this year, with a particular focus on green technology manufacturing with benefits such as 15% tax breaks for investors.

The R1,3 billion investment in Atlantis from the Czech Republic company, Pegas Nonwovens, is welcomed as they will source all raw building materials locally for the construction of their fabrics plant.


Hon members, the Minister has said that the political economy is taking centre stage. If this is true — and Minister, you are quite right and quite correct — then we need a new national deal. One needs only look at our successes where we govern in the Western Cape to see that. Through the stimulation of small business and entrepreneurs, eliminating red tape for business startups, and creating a healthy and attractive business environment in the Western Cape, we have managed to grow our economy and slash our unemployment rate. This is the kind of political economy the rest of the country needs.

Our continued investment into infrastructure-led economic growth is an investment into our people, and their prosperity. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr J J LONDT: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members just over a year ago we as the NCOP participated in the Department of Small Businesses and Development‘s Budget Vote debate. The members in the NCOP House all agreed that small businesses should be the driving force behind the economy. This was also included in various policy documents and was reiterated by the Minister herself in the select committee. In most countries across the world, small businesses form the backbone of their economies. In emerging countries and economies


the percentage contribution by small businesses helps to drive down unemployment and make sure that the economy grows.

My question to this House is then; what has changed over the course of the past year for us to say that we are succeeding or are we failing? How are we measuring the performance of our government and the Ministers leading the Departments?

There is a saying in sport that says ‗look at the score board‘. Now, hon Minister if we look at the score board, you are failing. Our unemployment rate increased to 27,7% that has been repeated time and time again.

Now, the hon Minister Patel did a great job in trying to spin the gloomy figures, stating how many people entered the job market. But, you also need to look at the expanded definition of employment, and even that increased. That is now sitting at a scary 36,4% with youth unemployment almost touching 40%. Hon Minister Patel said we should look at the domestic factors and what can be done? There is one domestic factor that we can address and that is to fire Jacob Zuma. That is the easiest domestic factor that we need to address. [Interjections.] There was also ...


Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon Chairperson, the last time I checked, we had President Jacob Zuma and he was not a Jacob Zuma who is an ordinary citizen of this country. I think he must be addressed accordingly as such.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Hon Londt, refer to the hon President appropriately.

Mr J J LONDT: Hon Chair, I will refer to him as the President Jacob Zuma, I was just hoping and wishing that the ANC members would do the job to fire him so that we can call him Jacob Zuma. Anyway, this was also supported by the Deputy Minister Masuku who said you cannot fix a problem with what caused the problem. Now, let me tell you what caused the problem. This ANC government cannot hold their leaders to account. That is what caused the problem. Now, how do you want this ANC government to fix the problem?

Mr J M MTHETHWA: Chairperson, can the hon member take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Hon Londt, are you ready to take a question?

Mr J J LONDT: Yes, you can ask a question.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Yes you can ask a question. [Interjections.] Order, members!

Mr J M MTHETHWA: Hon member, when are you going to leave protecting Helen Zille?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Hon Mthethwa, this is the very same thing that I have said; refer to her appropriately. He is the member of the House.

Mr J J LONDT: I think this member was not really prepared to ask a question. He was surprised that I agreed to it, but let me answer your question. You know what we have in the Western Cape? We have a premier that leads an effective government; a premier that can deliver. We have got a party that delivers. Let me tell you what the ANC is delivering. Hon Mthethwa, let me show you the difference between the DA and the ANC. Let me tell you what you deliver. You deliver politicians that are unable to be truthful. You deliver leaders that are unable to lead. You deliver mayors and you deliver a President that is unable to keep the hands out of the till. That is what the ANC is delivering. So, when you talk about delivery that is what you are delivering. You know what, there is a ... you know why you don‘t ... [Interjections.]


Mr J M MTHIMUNYE: Is hon Londt prepared to take another question from me?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Hon Londt, are you ready to take a question from hon Mthimunye?

Mr J J LONDT: You can go ahead.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): He is ready; you can ask your question hon Mthimunye.

Mr J M MTHIMUNYE: As a leader, who believes colonialism was a good system, represent a good leader in this country.

Mr J J LONDT: You know, it is very nice for the ANC. They only have one thing left; one thing only, and that is driving the race cart in South Africa. Let me tell you now hon members, and I want you to listen carefully. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Hon members, hon Londt ... hon Mthimunye has paused a question. Let us allow hon Londt to respond without being drowned. Hon Londt, you are protected.


Mr J J LONDT: Colonialism and apartheid were terrible, not just for this country, but for the entire continent. And up to this day, every single government is struggling to address the legacy of colonialism and apartheid and that is what every single government in this country whether national, provincial or local government should do. Hon Mthimunye, the problem is that some governments take the money that is available to them and make sure that it goes to the people that need it. That is what we are doing where there are DA led governments. But, time and time and time again ANC led governments are proving that they cannot be trusted with tax payer‘s money. From your own province Mpumalanga, where you are coming from, time and again the ANC has proven that you cannot be trusted with tax payer‘s money. That is why you lost the metros, okay; and that is why you are going to loose more provinces and that is why you are going to loose more provinces and that is why you are going to loose the country. [Applause.]

Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, on behalf of hon Londt, I invite one more! [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): You are out of order! Continue hon Londt. He is out of order. [Interjections.]


Mr J J LONDT: Hon Julius, I concur. The ANC members are welcome to ask more questions ... [Interjections.]

Ms T J MOKWELE: The ANC is no longer relevant.

Mr J J LONDT: ... because I am not afraid to answer questions.

Hon Minister Zulu, once an entrepreneur enters the job market ... [Interjections.] ... hon Minister Zulu at the moment 76% of small businesses that enter the market fail within the first two years. That is people who are willing to take that risk; willing to take that step in order to help address the unemployment we have got in the country. I believe what your department should do is to assist that this failure rate goes down. We need to ensure that there is a better entrepreneurial spirit and mind set in our country. Now, I know that in the select committee you said we will look to bring that in at universities at a tertiary level. Unfortunately, the sad reality in our country is we are failing many children at school level already. Most of the children drop out at school level and then a small percentage actually gets to university. So, I think a lot more effort should be put in there, because its people that come from the most remote parts of our country that has got that


entrepreneurial gene – got the entrepreneurial spirit in them that just need to get the backing.

My question hon Minister is, when will we start seeing the results of the creation of your department? The results that show on the score board that unemployment is going down, because unless we see that, you are not succeeding. I am going to tell you now what this country needs is a government that allows the citizens to be the best that they can be; a government that looks after every single person and not just the connected few.

An HON MEMBER: And the cadres.

Mr J J LONDT: So, what we need to do is to have a government that is pro business, pro entrepreneurial and has a pro jobs approach to address the massive unemployment. In short, we need a government that has got a proven track record in service delivery and that is the DA government.

Hon Minister, we have 9,3 million unemployed South Africans that are waiting for the DA government. In the meantime, while they are waiting for the DA government you still have a duty to make sure that your department can do the best because we do not want to


inherit 10 or 10,5 or 11 or 12 million unemployed South Africans. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chairperson and members, hon Minister Zulu and Minister Patel, the Deputy Minister November and also to the Deputy Minister Masuku in his absence, leaders from the Department of Economic Development and the Small Business Development, hon members of the executive council, MECs, ladies and gentlemen in the gallery and Mr Bongumusa Mthembu, the male winner of the 2017 Comrades Marathon demonstrated the importance of technical and timed running, as ANC-led government we are engaged in a marathon. As we tackle the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality as well as a scourge of violence against women and children, there is a race to be run and there is a victory to be won. We are not telling our people to wait, hon Londt, for a DA government. We are leading them as the ANC with the full participation of the people since we adopted the Freedom Charter in 1955. That clearly spells out what the will of the people of this country is.

The month of June is nationally celebrated as youths month. The Congress of South African Students, Cosas, also celebrated its 38 anniversary celebrations on 31 May. We salute this revolutionary student movement for its ongoing contribution to the national


democratic revolution. In his address to the 31 May celebrations held in Soweto, the former Chairperson of Cosas, Comrade Mogomotsi Mogodiri, said and I quote:

I am not fan of the intellectual gymnastics regarding white monopoly capital versus Guptas raging currently as it serves to deflect the real issues confronting our movement and our people. As revolutionaries, we need to rise above this growing noise and crescendo of their apologists or both the white monopoly capitalism and the Guptas.

The DA is coming to the podium and recites the same thing over again and it reminds me of when I was in primary school and I had to learn a poem. Tell us something new. They are very rhetorical as have been said by Deputy Minister Masuku. What was said in the NA is merely repeated here. Comrade Mogodiri continued when he said:

We should incisively analyse our economic challenges and conduct the careful and scientific prognosis.

This is a young man who was raised by this glorious ANC. This statement of the comrade is of a paramount importance in the debates of today. The hon Magwebu comes here to the podium and all that he


does is to start by quoting ANC leaders, he then screams in the microphone as if he wins a debate by how loud you are screaming. We know the importance of being rational and logic. It is also unhealthy for him and some other members of the DA to let their blood rise and to become pink. It is not going to help in anywhere. We must be rational.

Hon members, young people have been encouraged to take advantage of funding allocated for young entrepreneurs. The Industrial Development Corporation, an entity of the Department of Economic Development, has set aside billions for young entrepreneurs.
Therefore, what we do is to say that here is the money, but you come and tell us what you want to do with it. Therefore, quite mindful we are of the fact that when these funds are made available, there is an independence screening. Point us and show us those people that you are saying that are ANC beneficiaries and we will act against them.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order, I want to know if the hon member will take a question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Makue, are you ready to take a question?


Mr E MAKUE: With the greatest of pleasure, Chairperson.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He is ready and you can ask your question, hon Labuschagne.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, I would like the hon speaker to tell us those billions of rand that are offered to the entrepreneurs and ask him to come. Can you give us real figures, in the past two years, of number of entrepreneurs that got jobs that is sustainable, that keeps on after three years, how many billions and how many members. Thank you.

Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chairperson, the advantages that we have is that we know what it means to lead. We allocate people to select committees and the details are shared in the select committees. If she makes an effort to read the minutes of the last select committee meeting that question was raised and we have agreed that Small Enterprise Finance Agency, Sefa, would make a special effort to come to the next meeting and then in generosity, Minister Zulu then said that they are not going to come alone. We are going to make sure that the Department of Small Business Development comes with this.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: ... [Inaudible.] ... another question.


Mr E MAKUE: Chairperson, she must not take chances. I take questions not chances. I‘m sorry I won‘t take it again ... [Interjections.]

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Because you do not want to hear the truth, thank you ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, take your seat. He is not ready to take another question. Continue hon Makue.

Mr E MAKUE: Chairperson, Minister Patel aptly provided real data on job creation. I wonder where this member was when that data was given to us here from this podium earlier today. He gave it to us and also broken down in the different provinces of the country. The hon Dikgale emphasised the importance of education. Maybe we should start by educating members of this House to enable them to use their memory appropriately and also to train them so that when we look at supporting entrepreneurs we set an example as Members of Parliament.

Financial shares on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange which have been in the doldrums lately were buoyant last Friday morning after rating agency Fitch affirms the country‘s investment rating on Thursday.
You see now, the member is saying that the shares were good for one day because I quoted a day. It shows that the member doesn‘t even


know how to read the rating agencies and the share market in this country because it was clearly not for one day. The financial index
... [Interjections.]

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: On a point of order, Chairperson, the member implicated that I can‘t read and I want him to apologise or withdraw because I can read.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, I‘m confused. Why are you to make even a proper ruling? Hon Makue, assist me to understand. Which member are you referring to because I want to make that ruling?

Mr E MAKUE: I did not refer to that member, Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, why are you the affected member?

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, with all your due respect, if I have to go in the dialogue with you and a debate with a Chair as I referred previously, I‘m the only member in this debate via that member standing at the podium who raised the questions that he can


be referred to. I‘m the only member who raised questions and nobody else in this Council did raise the question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, he is debating and he responded to your question. Now, he is debating.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: He is not debating, he is answering me.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, take your seat. Continue hon Makue.

Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chairperson, the local market was also supported by global markets which are trading at record levels after strong economic indicators but the firm rand put a damper on the industrial resources indices and this is quota by a newspaper in Fin24. For the nine provinces as a whole, the Economic Development Department will support and co-ordinating economic development initiatives and they shall include its ongoing work within Minister and Members of Executive Council, Minmec. A report will be completed on work done in each province on the above detailing action plans taken by the Economic Development Department and each agency in and with the provinces. Accordingly, they indicated to us in the annual


performance plan that we can expect, as this NCOP, 10 reports in this regard for 2017-18.

Listening to the rational MECs present, it is indeed or great encouragement that we see every MEC talking to us about the positive economic development in their provinces as well as pointing out some of the challenges that they are experiencing. All provinces are against all odds doing the best in ensuring that the wealth of South Africa is shared.

It also then important to note that the Department of Economic Development will support the national infrastructure plan and will work to ensure that we assess the stature of the project through a site visit and also by unblocking fast tracking and facilitating project design, approval and implementation and developing system for assessing macroeconomic and microeconomic course and benefit to projects. We have particularly spoken about the unreformative construction industry and the department has given us in the Association of Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Professionals, ABP, an assurance that attention will be given to that.

In the strategic objective 5, the Economic Development Department says that they will promote productive investment, industrial


financing and entrepreneurships for jobs and inclusive operating work, inclusive growth. There are five Key Performance Indicators, KPIs, for this objective. When members come here and talk about the ANC letting certain people benefit, we are saying no and we are permitted to inclusive growth. Therefore, we again want to say that if you know about individuals that are benefiting come and give us the names or go to the Competitions Commission or go to the courts. You are invited to provide evidence and not to provide in witch- hunting.

The interesting thing is when we look at witch-hunting and its history in Germany. People that were earlier on in the period immediately following the renaissance making progress in life would labelled as witches in Germany and they were killed. We must be careful about the words that we choose. When people are progressing as entrepreneurs let us acknowledge them as good entrepreneurs.

The second danger that we have which is very disingenuous is that we would come here and say that the ANC has given money to foreign nationals because they are good entrepreneurs. We have worked and the ad hoc committee of this Parliament met with many of these entrepreneurs who are foreign nationals. They have said that they are prepared to help train South Africans and we are open to those


types of approaches also from those that are very often by someone in the right in this House labelled as foreigners who must get out of the country. We are saying that we have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and we respect the rights also of people who are seeking refuge in our beloved country.

I shall now ... [Inaudible.]... focus on the annual performance plan, APP, of the Department of Small Business Development other than to say that Minister Zulu has adequately explain to us what the plans of the department are. However, in the select committee she made a very interesting remark when she said that structure follows strategy and the proposed structure of this Department of Small Business Development will be informed by the strategic plans of the department informed by the strategies of the ANC.

Members of the ANC noted with appreciation that the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation and the National Treasury made proposals to the Department of Small Business Development and they have taken all those proposals seriously. Minister Zulu underlined the importance of co-ordination between the three spheres of government and we welcome and appreciate that knowing that we are more successful when we work together. The hon Rayi said that our economy is connected to international market. You are quite right,


our chairperson. The value of trade between Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Brics, countries in South Africa now equals trade between South Africa and the rest of Africa.

In 2016, the imports and exports between South Africa and the rest of the continent amounted to R427 billion. In the same year, South African with Brics partners amounted to R425 billion. South African imports and exports with Russia accounted for only 2% of all South African trade with Brics.

I wanted to talk about the recent meeting that our Deputy Minister, Mr Gratitude Bulelani, is attending in St Petersburg International Economic Forum, but due to time constraints I will not go into that other than to say a lot of opportunities have also opened up for entrepreneurs in this important engagement that this Minister of the ANC-led government is engaging.

The hon Londt comes here and says what has changed. Therefore, we want to say to him, the hon Londt, please read your report of the departments of government and you will see the change that has happened. We also want to say that read and study the Attorney- General‘s reports and then you will see very clear indications on good governance. The hon Schafer, let us not come here and make


demeans out of other provinces. Let us come here and tell our people what we are doing. We would acknowledge that there is good thing happening in the Western Cape.

Let us also acknowledge the good things that are happening in Gauteng. For example, like Tshepo 500 000, that was a three-year programme, and within one year has become Tshepo one million. Not only because you have a good government, but because we have companies like Coca-cola that is prepared to come to the table. [Applause.] Let us not forget the project that is happening in the Free State at the moment that is part of the youth‘s month project where the Free State is allocating within the office of the premier. Young people who are saying nothing for us without us and the premier is bringing them into the premier‘s office to look at what they can do and to ensure that young people benefit from the economic opportunities that we have available in this country.

The government has embarked on a number of developmental policies that formed the basis of addressing unemployment, poverty and inequality and to promote insecurity and shared economic growth. We must all be ready. The hon Schafer, please note that this government that you so much like to discredit has signed an agreements with the European Union which we call it the economic partnership agreements,


Epas. It is in those agreements that the agricultural sector that you referred to here in Western Cape is benefiting that we are able to provide for people so that Rooibos and Honeybush tea can become brand South Africa so that the wines of the Western Cape can be sold in bigger quantities to those countries that you support and we are doing it.

Therefore, don‘t create the impression here that this ANC-led government is not contributing towards the health, welfare and wellbeing of the people of the Western Cape. Therefore, we are worried because we look at the people of Elsies River, we look at the people of Manenberg, we look at the people of Bongolethu and we look at the people in the black townships here and we are saying how can we work with you so that we can make sure that these people have maximum benefits on the programmes of government.

The hon Dikgale reminded us that competitiveness of South African entrepreneurs is a challenge and we accept that and we will be working on that. Hon Magwebu said that the DA does not support the budget. This is the greatest hypocrisy. They don‘t support the budget when the allocations happen they just say no, we don‘t support it you can keep the money. They accept the money with open


arms and hands. Don‘t be hypocritical. If you don‘t support the budget, then don‘t take the money that goes along with the budget.

Therefore, the ANC‘s full and unqualified support for the APPs and budget of the Department of the Small Business Development and the Economic Development Department should be apparent as we engage in radical economic transformation. There is a race to be run and there is a victory to be won. The ANC leads either. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: May I thank both the members of the executive council of the provinces, the MECs, and the hon members, there were a number of excellent contributions, great ideas, we have taken note of them and we will work on implementing them. I would like to respond in a limited time to three interventions. The first intervention was by the hon Rayi, chairperson of the select committee, who asked three questions. The first question is: ―How will the downgrade impact on the infrastructure bill programme and will it be slow down?‖ The downgrade is bad news for infrastructure because it can push up the costs of any loans that we make to finance infrastructure. At the same time, Infrastructure Bill is a critical element of the credible growth story that we are putting forward both to our people and that


rating agencies taking into account. So, we are committed as a government to ensuring robust, strong infrastructure span that will have a strong economic multiplier effect.

Second question on an auto sector and the support given to it, hon Rayi, asked: Could we not do the same in labour-intensive sectors? I have good news, hon Rayi, very recently my colleague, the Minister of Trade and Industry announced the R1 billion fund for the agro- processing sector which is very labour intensive. It provides food to the South African people. We have entered into an agreement with both Coca Cola and AB InBev to promote agriculture and agro- processing bringing significant additional money to that venture.

On clothing and textiles and footwear, I am happy again to indicate we have a clothing and textile competitiveness fund, which is supported with money that is budgeted through the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, as well as resources that the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, makes available in that sector in a form of loans and industrial funding.

Secondly, I would like to respond to hon Schafer‘s comments. I think hon Makue made a very good point, which is putting forward the case for the province that we represent in the NCOP, we should do it in


an inclusive way, because what is good in the Western Cape is good for South Africa. What is good in Gauteng is good for South Africa. I don‘t think it helps us if we begin to pick in a very narrow way, one or two things. If I wanted to do that, it would be unhelpful. I could point out, for example that hon Schafer said that rural unemployment came down to 14%. That was in December last year. The latest figure shows that it‘s gone up. Rural unemployment in the Western Cape has gone up to 18,8% in a three-month period.

I could point out that the City of Cape Town official unemployment went up from 21,1% to 23%. I could point out that the expanded unemployment went up from 21,8% to 25,1%. [Interjections.] It doesn‘t help us because it doesn‘t find solutions to the people of Cape Town. We are also their government nationally, and we need to do more to create jobs in Cape Town, because there is poverty in Cape Town. There is unemployment in Cape Town and there is inequality in Cape Town. The challenges in the Western Cape are the challenges that we have to face as South Africans all over the country.

I could point out that the Saldanha Bay Industry Development Zone, IDZ, that‘s referred to, is actually supported financially with a grant from the DTI, with land that is made available by the


Industrial Development Corporation and support and land that is made available by Transnet. They are national agencies; they do it because what is for one part of the country is good for the whole country. We have to think as a national government.

I could point out that the attempt or request to have a declaration of a special economic zone in Atlantis that hon Schafer refers to, requires national government to do that and make available effectively tax revenues from the national fiscus. It is important we do that so that the people of Atlantis where unemployment is enormously high ... and I know and I know that area very well – it can benefit too.

Hon Magwebu quoted Madiba at the Congress of SA Trade Unions, Cosatu, congress in 1993. I was there; I worked with Madiba. After that, as a representative of Cosatu, we worked on reconstruction and development programme. I just want to point out something important, because I think we can all be proud as South Africans of our legacy and of our achievements, even when we say we have enormous challenges. When Madiba took that important step of signalling to the nation that we‘ve adopted the Constitution in 1996, there were 8,9 million South Africans in employment. Today, there are
16,2 millions South Africans in employment. [Applause.] In other


words, more than 7 million additional jobs have been created. [Applause.] When Madiba signalled to the nation that in fact we have a new Constitution, there were 7,2 million houses in South Africa that were connected to the electricity grid. Today, we have more than 15 million homes connected to the electricity grid. What they point to is that transformation in South Africa has been real and has been substantial. Ordinary South Africans have benefited, but the job we have still requires us to do a lot more. There are still many people who need much more. The responsibility we have is to ensure bold socioeconomic transformation. Broad partnerships in the society expand ownership in the economy; give young people the opportunity to have jobs and create jobs which are the opportunities for South Africans to contribute to building their economy and their country.

I think House Chairperson, as I conclude, my contribution is really a call that the Budget Vote is an enormously important opportunity in the National Assembly and the budget debate in the NCOP for us to get feedback that helps us to refine our strategies. We get a substantial amount from the ruling party, but we always open to hear from any party, because you also represent South Africans so that together we build this country, we create jobs and we develop this


economy. So, we look forward to implement all the good ideas we heard today, thank you very much. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, the first thing I would like to say is to thank the MECs and members who have contributed to this discussion. Those positive contributions help us as a department to make sure that ultimately the people we are supposed to deliver to, we deliver. I also would like to say to the members, please continue to be very vigilant in your oversight because your oversight visits and your representation of the provinces is of utmost importance to us.

I would also like to say to the MECs who are here from the Economic Development; we would like to continue to work very closely with you. As I said in my speech, without this proper co-ordinated approach to supporting small, medium and micro-enterprises, SMMEs, we would never be able to finally fulfil what we have in the National Development Plan, NDP, and the Nine-Point Plan that is the government implementing. Part of that Nine-Point Plan is small, and medium enterprises and co-operatives.

Most importantly, Chairperson and hon members, I would like to thank the thousands and thousands of SMMEs and co-operatives. Many of whom

have not been even able to be supported by our support systems, whether Small Enterprise Finance Agency, Sefa, or Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, not on the basis of not wanting to reach them, but simply on the basis that it is overwhelming. The amount of people who are really asking for our support is very big. I would like to say to all those SMMEs and co-operatives out there, we will change the structure of the economy together working with you. The structure of the economy is making it very difficult for you, hardworking as you are and smart as you are. The economy is making it very difficult for you to enter into that. We would like to say working with you, we will work together to change the ownership of the means of production in South Africa because unless we change that we will be forever complaining.

We will also be in partnership with communities and higher education. The MEC spoke very much to the issue of education. Working with the institutions of education, the private sector in particular, we will have to work together and make sure that we change the economy of South Africa so that those that did not benefit are able to benefit.

Hon member of the EFF, I would like to say to you, please go back to our speech you will see that we have clearly indicated to you that

compensation of employees is allocated only 9,5 and goods and services 5,5. Please look at how much of our budget goes directly to SMMEs through our agencies and so forth. I think that, it is important for you to understand that it is deliberate for us not to have a huge department so that most of the bulk of the money goes to SMMEs.

I would also like to say that since it is a month of June and we are celebrating June 16 1976 Uprising, I would like to say to the young people out there who I meet almost on day-to-day basis - I would like to say to them, ―I am one of June 16 contingent who liberated South Africa.‖ We liberated South Africa politically; their responsibility now is to really make sure that they focus on the economy of South Africa so that they pay attention on education, economic empowerment, skills development and understanding the economy. It is one thing to make noise about the economy and it‘s another thing to be able to understand the intricacies and the complications of the South African economy. It brings me to the point of talking about the issue, for instance, where we spoke about the issue of deconcentration of the economy. If you don‘t understand that side of how the South African economy was concentrated and how difficult it is to deconcentrate it on the basis of ... hon member from the DA ... it is the cause of our problems today whether we

like it or not. We cannot run away from the fact that apartheid excluded us - it excluded everybody. [Interjections.] You cannot run away from the fact that breaking down the levers of apartheid, breaking down the system of the past, cannot take a miserable 23 years. Some of the questions that are here, we would be prepared to answer them. Gladly, we would write to you so that we can answer all of them, because the time that is given is very short.

One thing I can say in closing, there are also white young people who are being lost in the process because there is so much noise. They cannot come to the department because they believe that this is a department of black people only. This is a department for all South Africans. [Interjections.] The focus on the black is only on the basis that we are addressing the imbalances of the past. [Applause.] All citizens of South Africa are welcome. By the way, young white compatriots do not have what was in the past where they would be given special treatment. It‘s not there anymore. Let them come to us. Let us focus on assisting all South Africans, because when South Africans grow their business, whether they are black or white or whatever, there is employment in there. So, they are all welcome to come to our department. I thank you. [Applause.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Let me also join both Minister Patel and Minister Zulu, to thank MECs, special delegates, both of you, Ministers and your Deputies for availing yourself for this very lively and informative session of your Budget Votes.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 20:00.