Hansard: Decision on Appropriation Bill by NCOP

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 05 Jun 2012


No summary available.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 42




The Council met at 14:03.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 42



(Draft Resolution)

THE ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed on the Order Paper in the name of the Chief Whip as follows:

That the Council, following the resignation of hon T A Mashamaite, designates the following members to serve on the Judicial Services Commission in terms of section 178(3) of the Constitution:

Mr Mninwa Johannes Mahlangu

Ms Bertha Peace Mabe

Ms Mmatlala Grace Boroto

Mr Tjheta Makwa Harry Mofokeng.

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 42



(Policy debates)

Vote No 26 - Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:

Vote No 30 – Environmental Affairs:

Vote No 33 - Rural Development and Land Reform:

Vote No 38 - Water Affairs:

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Minister Nkwinti, the chairpersons of the Select Committees on Agriculture, Forestry, Rural Development and all the departments present, the hon Deputy Ministers of all three departments, MECs - those we share and those we do not share, but all part of the same government - members of the NCOP, distinguished guests, the directors-general of the different departments, senior managers, ladies and gentlemen, we have turned the tide in agriculture.

It would be remiss of me not to make a few remarks about the youth in this aptly called Youth Month, which government will convene under the banner of "Together we can do more to build infrastructure and fight youth unemployment, poverty and inequality." The Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries will also take this opportunity to align its June programme with other significant events. June will include celebrations around Environment Month, under the theme "The Green Economy: Does it Include You?" This initiative will involve the youth in the green economy. The scourge of poverty, unemployment and inequality continues to beset our youth.

Additionally, the department also acknowledges that on 12 June, the International Labour Organisation will observe the 10th World Day Against Child Labour. We call on all South Africans, business sector and civil society organisations to work with government in eradicating the challenges faced by our children and our youth. As our former President, Nelson Mandela, aptly said in a speech during 1995: "I am confident that South Africa's youth is more than ready to meet the challenges of freedom." Wherever you are - in schools, in religious institutions, at work, in the army, Police Service, in sporting bodies or cultural workers - be assured that we love you, the youth, and we will always remain committed to your cause. We are firm in our conviction that the youth of our country deserves a better future.

Our department is exploring various innovative initiatives to draw the youth into agriculture. Working with the Department of Rural Development, we are participating in Youth Month activities, which will include planting of trees and ensuring that the building of houses will include youth participation. Towards the end of the month, we will also be hosting a seminar titled "The Role of Forests in Climate Adaptation and Mitigation".

In our department's Budget Vote speech to the National Assembly barely a month ago, we expressed cautious optimism that we were finally turning the corner on employment in the agriculture sector. At that time, we reported that jobs in the sector had increased from 31 000 over the second half of 2011 and that this amounts to a year-on-year growth in agriculture employment of 8,8%. If one takes formal sector agricultural employment on its own, the year-on-year growth in agriculture is 12,3%. For a sector that has been steadily losing jobs since the 1970s, this is extremely good news. For the first time since the 1970s, agriculture is actually creating jobs.

Since then, the release of more employment data by the Stats SA Quarterly Labour Review has given us more reason for celebration in the sector. Over the first quarter of 2012, employment in agriculture grew by a further 26 000. The agriculture sector has been the driver of economic growth and job creation in the economy of this country. This is a major achievement for all stakeholders.

One particular question is whether the positive trends we are beginning to see in agricultural employment are the result of our long-term efforts to improve the trade environment for our farmers. We are now exporting three times more wine than we did a decade ago. Our soaring wine exports are surely a good thing not only for farmers' incomes and the trade balance but also for job creation.

Exports of fish and fish products have rapidly expanded in China and Cameroon. Timber and forestry products are gaining ground in China and Indonesia, and we are exporting more and more maize to Zimbabwe.

Our exports have in fact undergone a structural shift over the past decade, with a smaller share going to our traditional markets in Europe and a larger share going to destinations in Africa, Asia and the Middle East. Exports to South Korea have increased from 2% to 3%, China from 1% to 3% and the United Arab Emirates from 1% to 3%. This indicates that, since 1994, the value of our agricultural exports has approximately doubled after adjusting for inflation.

With rare exceptions, agrifood exports exceed imports by a sizeable margin, meaning that agriculture makes an impressive contribution to South Africa's overall trade balance.

According to the latest production forecast of 24 May, the South African commercial maize crop has been set at 11 million tons. The department is steadily implementing the Comprehensive Agriculture Support programme to support subsistence, smallholder and commercial producers. CASP additionally provides effective agricultural support and streamlined services to targeted beneficiaries of land reform as well as black producers who have acquired land through private means. For the 2009-10 to 2011-12 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period, R2,6 billion was allocated and transferred to provinces through CASP. An amount of 2 863 projects were implemented countrywide, reaching 78 842 beneficiaries. These projects supported the entire spectrum of agricultural products by improving or providing required infrastructure for production and providing targeted training for beneficiaries.

During the same period, 677 new extension officers were recruited countrywide. To date, 818 officers have registered with local universities for undergraduate degrees, up to PhD level. A total number of 36 586 farmers received accredited and nonaccredited training on agricultural production and this resulted in the creation of 20 500 jobs.

The total budget allocation for our department is R5,8 billion. The allocation to our public entities and conditional grants will be disbursed as follows: CASP will receive R1,5 billion, Ilima/Letsema R416 million, the Agricultural Research Council R935 million, the National Agricultural Marketing Council R31 million, the Perishable Products Control Board, or PPECB, R600 000, Ncera Farms R3 million and the Marine Living Resources Fund R253 million.

National Treasury made available a total of R157,8 million through CASP over the next MTEF period to improve agricultural colleges' infrastructure and facilities. This amount would also be used to ensure learning programmes accreditation and quality assurance, to establish and strengthen governance within these institutions.

A total of R590 million was allocated and transferred to provinces for the Ilima/Letsema programme. Three irrigation schemes, in Taung, Vaalharts and Makhathini, are being revitalised to support households. Subsistence and smallholder farmers will also be assisted along these irrigation schemes. A new irrigation scheme will be developed in Umzimvubu, in conjunction with the Departments of Water Affairs, Rural Development and Land Reform and the rest of our Economic cluster in the Eastern Cape to put more land under cultivation.

There are now 90 rooibos producers in the Suid Bokkeveld and Nieuwoudtville areas of Namaqualand. An amount of R30,8 million was invested for the completion of the rooibos processing plant. In simple terms, hundreds of jobs were created.

Early last year, devastating floods wreaked havoc in six provinces, incurring damage of over R1 billion. Over the next three years, more than R1 billion rand will be dispersed to the provinces, especially those that were declared disaster areas by national government. I repeat, the province will only receive money if it was declared a disaster area by national government. Do not worry, hon De Beer, the Northern Cape will get well over R300 million per year over the next three years - and that is not because I am from the Northern Cape. [Interjections.]

The Branch: Fisheries Management of the department is expanding our services beyond Cape Town to make our services more accessible to all stakeholders. Ladies and gentlemen, 2012 will be remembered as the year in which the Small Scale Fisheries Policy was finalised and implemented. This is significant because for the first time, fishing rights will also be allocated on a community basis. [Interjections.] Cabinet has approved this policy. This will mean that fisheries will no longer be Western Cape-based but will become a function of the entire country. [Applause.] Inland provinces will also have the function of fishing, even if it is aqua culture. Fishing is not just marine and coastal management in the Western Cape. [Interjections.]

We have committed ourselves to making our theme for this financial year, "Working Together for Food Security", a reality by forming a partnership with the Masibambisane Rural Development Initiative, other government departments and the private sector to ensure that we eradicate poverty and stimulate the rural economy. The project was launched in KwaZulu-Natal - to the KwaZulu-Natal members who were echoing in the corner – and will be prioritised with Mpumalanga and the Eastern Cape. The North West will be with you in less than a month's time.

To date, 1 885 implements and the big headache of tractors has been delivered to beneficiaries across the country. We have established a delivery forum for the sector, which we will monitor to ensure that we include all stakeholders in the sector. This service delivery forum will strengthen communication in the sector, act as a monitoring vehicle for service delivery and be an advisory body to the Minister.

This forum is supported by a number of implementation fora that focus on a particular project. We are determined to achieve the targets set in our service delivery agreement with the President. Our achievements are a catalyst to work harder and smarter to ensure that our people are the core beneficiaries in our struggle against poverty, unemployment and hunger. These achievements are only possible when we work together, with common objectives and with the desire for positive outcomes.

I wish to thank the chairperson of the select committee and the chairperson of the portfolio committee, as well as the entire portfolio committee for the sterling work done in guiding and advising us over the past year. I also wish to thank the Director-General for really accomplishing a task that was almost more than human.

I wish to thank parliamentarians for all their comments, queries, notices and letters. We may not have been responding to all your queries speedily, but please be aware that we are working on them. We have a daunting challenge ahead of us. Our challenge is not to say that we have turned the tide when not everybody has been assisted in our country. Food security is an absolute basic human right.

Each and every South African has the right to food security. We cannot have exports of agricultural products if South Africans are dying of starvation. There must be a balance between agricultural export and food security for the poorest of poor. That is why we will continue in a very vigorous fashion to support subsistence, smallholder and large commercial farmers. We cannot support one at the expense of the other.

When we leave here today, our mantra should be "One family, one vegetable garden". Minister Nkwinti, all your vegetable gardens are getting to the population of our country and we will soon reach our target of one family, one vegetable garden. For any member who still has not started a vegetable garden, your time to start is now! We will make sure that you have the seeds and the trees. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 43


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I would like to remind all the speakers on the podium today that we have a very long programme. So, the time is displayed right in front of you on the podium. You will see it there. When you see the red light, it means your time has expired. Hon Minister Molewa, I am not threatening you. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, chairperson of the select committee, hon members of the NCOP, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, it is a great honour and privilege for us to be in this august House to present the policy priorities and budget for the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs for the financial year 2012-13 for your consideration. I hope that it will be adopted.

Before I outline these plans, let me recognise and salute the youth of this country, who fought for our freedom from apartheid and continued to struggle in the changed terrain of democracy. As you know, June is both Youth Month and Environment Month. Through our interventions, as illustrated by our celebration of World Environment Day in Mangaung yesterday, we will roll up our sleeves by launching the first phase of countrywide green hubs, with various satellite and regional operations, later this month. These programmes are intended to benefit the young people of this country and will employ quite a number of them.

Last year we hosted and participated in the 17th session of the Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change and the 7th Meeting of Parties to the Kyoto Protocol in Durban, which is known as Cop17 and CMP7. We engaged widely with various provinces in the run-up to this climate-change conference. The final outcome was historic and precedent-setting. We are now looking forward to the implementation of the National Climate Change Response Policy, which we finalised prior to Cop17. We hope that this august House will continue to monitor progress in that regard.

We are looking forward to the Rio+20 negotiations, which will take place in Brazil later this month. It also marks the 10th anniversary of the World Summit on Sustainable Development, which was hosted by South Africa here at home. Here, we will be armed with, among others, the National Strategy on Sustainable Development, which we had put before Cabinet and was adopted by the country. It sets out the country's sustainable development priorities and actions over the next five years.

Regarding the green economy, we want to transform our industries towards the building of a green economy and create new labour absorbing industries that will mitigate impacts on the environment. We will place about 800 unemployed school-leavers and graduates in biodiversity jobs for an incubation period of two-and-a-half years through the South African National Biodiversity Institute. We will do this with graduates who passed but were not absorbed in the job market. In other words, this is a training field for them. About 800 of them will be taken in this year.

We will also tap into the R800 million for the Green Fund announced by the National Treasury over the next two financial years. This will be supported by various other programmes that we are rolling out, such as the National Waste Management Strategy, the environmental programmes linked to the Expanded Public Works Programme and the "Working for" programmes, some of which the Deputy Minister will talk about.

These programmes have proved to be very significant over the past years. The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research estimates the water saved through the clearing of invasive alien plants through our Working for Water programme to be R400 billion. In other words, having cleared those alien species, we have been able to save the country an amount of R400 billion. This money could have gone to waste.

Forestry SA also suggests that the R3,6 billion damage to the forestry industry through major fires in August 2008 could have been double had it not been for the Working on Fire partnership. Last year, these programmes created 26 700 new job opportunities, amounting to 11 676 full-time and 26 891 accredited training person days.

The Working for Water and Working on Fire programmes will therefore be increased by another R1,1 billion, thus bringing the allocation to these programmes to R7,7 billion over the next medium-term expenditure framework. This will provide 205 877 work opportunities and 102 603 full-time equivalent jobs over this period. We also aim to create 62 860 work opportunities this financial year and 31 277 full-time jobs, as well as 600 youth benefiting from the National Youth Service, in addition to 40% of the work being done by young people. We want 55% of beneficiaries from our programmes to be women and 2% to be people with disabilities. The Deputy Minister will allude to these programmes of women and young people as well.

As a developing state, we must ensure a balance between economic growth, social development and environmental sustainability. By the end of this year, the Minister of Mineral Resources, Mme Susan Shabangu and I will launch the National Mining and Biodiversity Guideline in partnership with industry to guide the mining sector on integrating biodiversity considerations into the planning processes and managing biodiversity during the operational phases of a mine.

We are also in the process of developing a National Environmental Impact Assessment and Management Strategy to address key concerns and constraints within the current environmental impact management system. The department is also developing standards for the environmental impact assessment listed activities to replace the requirement contained in the 2010 Environmental Impact Assessment EIA, Regulations for environmental authorisation prior to the construction or expansion of applicable facilities. I am sure you will be glad to hear that this will cut the time for authorisations.

We are strengthening the management of our biodiversity through the newly launched National Biodiversity Assessment Report, which covers biodiversity and ecosystems across terrestrial, fresh-water, estuarine and marine environments. We also want to assure you that we view the illegal killing of our rhino in a very serious light because they are part of our biodiversity assets. We will continue to prioritise our fight against it with our Security cluster departments. We will continue to implement the various initiatives highlighted since last year with the additional ones we announced a few weeks ago. We will do so while continuing to put in place added measures to address this matter. The worst affected areas remain the Kruger National Park, North West, Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal.

There was an hon member who told me that they wanted water. Regarding water, we have increased the 1994 figure of 59% access to clean and safe drinking water, which we inherited, to 94,7%. This is an increase of 35,7%. This leaves the backlog at 5,3%, the equivalent of some 710 000 households, compared to 3,9 million households in 1994.

However, we must also acknowledge that there are still many rural areas and informal settlements without water and areas where post-1994 infrastructural deficiencies are still characterised by taps that run dry due to poor maintenance and operational problems. For this reason, we are embarking on a process to ensure that all communities drink purified water within the next three to four years. We have launched a programme - we call it the Trevor Balzer project - which will ensure that our communities drink safe and clean water in the next three to four years. However, our biggest challenge will remain the inadequate maintenance of infrastructure, especially at the municipal level. As this august House, we should work together with the municipalities that are the weakest at this point in time.

In addressing the water use authorisation backlogs, we finalised 1 049 such authorisations last year. Strategic industries have benefited from this achievement of our water reallocation programme. We currently prioritise applications from the historically disadvantaged and we are finalising the compulsory licensing projects in the pilot areas of Tosca, Jan Dissel and Umhlathuze. My hon colleague, Minister Joemat-Petterson, will be glad to hear that we are prioritising the most disadvantaged now.

We are also looking at the integrated authorisation process for water licences, as well as others from the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs to cover water-use licences, environmental impact assessment authorisations and waste licences with a view to integrate further permits to streamline the regulatory processes, so that we have one-stop shops.

In addition to this, we are currently increasing the exploitation of our groundwater resources, intensifying projects on water recycling and the desalination of water, particularly in our coastal areas. I am sure the people from the Eastern Cape and the Western Cape would love to hear that we are moving on to desalination as well. We are tapping into the database of the Department of Public Works with regards to capacity in order to get retired engineers to increase capacity in our department. We have also already added 240 graduate trainees through our learning academy.

We have allocated funds for Water Demand Management. This year we will support 10 municipalities to save 720 million cubic meters of water. However, we want local government to also allocate additional resources for this activity. The Deputy Minister will elaborate on this, but I must mention that we are also working closely with the Department of Agriculture, industry and the mining sector to set water-use efficiency targets for their subsectors.

Regarding partnerships with other water sector entities, a review of the institutional arrangements in the water sector has prompted me to forge ahead with the reduction of the 19 catchment management agencies. I am also investigating the restructuring of the water boards to ensure that they are able to fund and develop the necessary bulk water services infrastructure and support municipalities, particularly those that require immediate intervention. Work in this regard is very far advanced. We hope to have water boards with footprints per province.

The status of asset management within the water trading entity has been reviewed to ensure that it complies with the Government Infrastructure Asset Management Act.

We want to ensure that delivery of water services and sanitation by municipalities to all our people is attained. Our department has therefore strategically positioned itself to ensure that the whole value chain, from source-to-tap and waste-to-source, functions effectively. For the current financial year, the regional bulk programme has been allocated R2,597 billion. Last year, 173 625 people benefited in jobs from completed projects and this year, we expect about 550 000 to benefit from the projects.

Skills development will continue to be part of the programme, focusing on the training of plant operators to ensure the efficient operation and maintenance of the infrastructure. We will also provide funds to municipalities to administer and manage our transferred water and wastewater services schemes. Last year, we transferred R542,4 million for this purpose. We have also allocated R714 million for this year, of which R370 million will be for refurbishment, R147 million for operations and maintenance and R187 million for human resources.

The 4th Blue Drop Certification audit cycle shows that we continue to improve on our drinking water quality management. We assessed 931 water supply systems and 98 qualified for a Blue Drop. This is an increase from 66 in the last cycle. This means clean water that can actually be drunk from the tap. The number of systems where water safety planning is under way has increased from 154 last year to 579 this year and 269 of these risk management processes compare well with the expectations of the World Health Organisation.

Looking at the year ahead for infrastructure growth development, our infrastructure plan, which was announced by President Zuma, and its Strategic Integrated Projects, or Sips, require more investment in water infrastructure.,We are therefore developing a National Water Investment Framework – in fact, I got a report this afternoon, saying that it was completed. It is now ready for consultation. The first results indicate that at least R573 billion will be required over the next 10 years. Approximately 42% of this is funded.

In the Eastern Cape, we will conclude the final planning work for the construction of the R20 billion Umzimvubu Dam project, which will be used a multipurpose dam, including irrigation – Minister Joemat-Pettersson - and hydropower. Currently, the Lusikisiki Regional Water Supply Scheme serves the town of Lusikisiki and 23 rural villages. Because the Xura River is inadequate to supply the growth requirements, the Zalu Dam will be built on the Xura River, at an estimated cost of R320 million. This project will include the development of the groundwater system and the upgrade and expansion of the regional bulk water system to augment the existing supply area and expand the scheme to supply a further 56 villages.

We are also planning for the new Foxwood Dam on the Koonap River, near Adelaide, at a cost of about R200 million to deliver water by 2018. The amount of R450 million has been provided for the construction of the Nooitgedagt Dam.

In the Free State, we are investing R38,5 million under the accelerated community infrastructure programme during this financial year to benefit eight municipalities in the refurbishment of eight sewage treatment plants and three water treatment plants.

The amount of R10 million will be spent on a water conservation and water demand management investigation within the Mangaung Metro area. We have also approved R193 million under Regional Bulk Infrastructure Grant for various projects in 10 municipalities. A further R7,2 million has been set aside to make projects implementable in five more municipalities.

Gauteng will benefit from the implementation of Phase 2 of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project. This project positions water at the core of regional development. Regarding acid mine drainage in the Witwatersrand, we have implemented the short-term solution for the western basin and commissioned a feasibility study for a long-term solution for the entire Witwatersrand. We are sure we will overcome this problem.

In KwaZulu-Natal, the construction of the Mooi-Mgeni Transfer Scheme is ongoing to augment the current yield of the Mgeni System by 60 million megalitres per annum. Its water will benefit six municipalities, namely the eThekwini Metro, uMgungundlovu, Msunduzi, Ugu District, Sisonke and Ilembe Municipalities, from April 2013. We are also raising the Hazelmere Dam to the tune of R360 million to increase the water supply by an additional 10 million cubic metres per annum in areas such as Ballito and Mandeni. The project will also support development in the housing sector, the King Shaka Airport and the Dube Trade Port by September 2014.

In Limpopo, we have commenced with the R2,1 billion first phase of the Mokolo and Crocodile River West Water Augmentation programme to provide part of the water required for development in the Waterberg district, in particular in Lephalale, Matimba and the Medupi power stations, as well as the future mines in the area. A further augmentation scheme is planned to transfer surplus return flows from the Crocodile River West to the Lephalale environs at a cost provisionally estimated at R10,5 billion.

We also continue with the De Hoop Dam and its associated distribution systems to ensure that water reaches the people of Sekhukhune, Waterberg and Capricorn district municipalities. In the past three years, we invested about R2,7 billion towards its construction and a further R374 million will be spent this financial year. The impoundment of water, which means starting to dam water, will actually begin later this year –in November at the latest. About 2,3 million people in the domestic sector in the areas of Sekhukhune will benefit from this project.

We also want to complete the R750 million Nandoni Bulk Distribution System by early 2013, while the Mopani District Municipality stands to benefit from the R2,1 billion Great Letaba River Water Augmentation Project involving the Tzaneen and N'wamitwa dams and associated works, which commenced this year. The N'wamitwa Dam will also be started this year. In Mpumalanga we will complete the R130 million Dwarsloop-Acornhoek steel pipeline to provide water to nine rural communities. As we speak, two of these communities have already been connected. This pipeline is very long and we are working on it from both sides.

In the Northern Cape, we have made good progress in ensuring a supply of water from the Orange River to a number of rural communities to augment their groundwater supply. We have completed the R85 million bulk water pipelines to Kenhardt and Riemvasmaak – Minister Nkwinti's place. At Heuningvlei, we are implementing a project estimated at R196 million. Together with the Sedibeng Water Board, we have a pipeline bypass project to supply water to Springbok, the main centre of Namaqualand, as an emergency project in anticipation of the R540 million rehabilitation project to be rolled out over the next four years.

In the North West, the last but one province I want to talk about, the Taung Dam is now being used to address the water needs of about 186 000 households in the Greater Taung and Naledi local municipalities. Construction has already started during this financial year on the R135 million for the Greater Mamusa project to upgrade the bulk water supply to areas that include Schweizer-Reyneke, Amalia, Glaudina and Migdol from groundwater sources and water from the Bloemhof Dam.

Still in the North West, construction of the R75 million Madibeng project will start this financial year. We have taken money away and we are bringing it back now. We took away R40 million and we are now bringing R75 million to build that new water treatment plant.

The last province is the Western Cape, where we are making progress with preparations for the project of the raising of the Clanwilliam Dam. The dam's design is under way and its R1,830 billion construction will start in 2013. We are now working on the whole process and the requirements that need to be dealt with. This will include raising the dam by 13 metres to increase the water supply by 69,5 million m3 per annum for rural areas such as Clanwilliam, Vredendal and Klawer.

Last year, all our programmes put together created 4 600 jobs, including jobs for the youth and women, and a further 4 800 will be created during this financial year.

At this point, we would like to say that we need to work hard and work together to act against those people who are out there stealing cables, sometimes sabotaging our communities and causing people to be without water for weeks. Please let us work together We should also work with our municipalities and support them. We acknowledge that that is where we are at our weakest. As the department, we are standing ready to support our municipalities.

Thank you very much, hon Chairs of this august House, in particular the chairperson of the select committee, as well as all hon members who are ensuring that you are out there in the communities, keeping us on our toes by asking questions and ensuring that your communities benefit from the water sector. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 44


The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for the opportunity to address this august body, the National Council of Provinces. None who have lived their whole lives in an urban area can truly appreciate what life is like for the poor people locked in the deep rural areas. The vast majority have no work and no hope of getting any work, since they have a low skills base and no chance of achieving any skills. No work means a complete loss of dignity, little or no food, dependence on others - a life of misery with nothing to look forward to but more misery.

That is why, when we opened our doors for business in 2009, we introduced the Comprehensive Rural Development programme. It is my pleasure and privilege today to reveal to you how we are progressing with the development of that programme and what our plans are for unlocking the vast potential that the people who reside in our rural areas represent.

I can tell you, hon Chair, that we are now active in every part of our country. We have a footprint in every province, but with 20 million South Africans living under stress in rural areas, we have a long way to go before we can claim even modest success. Because we don't have much time, I am going to skip some of the information. We also have to report that we are dealing with matters of accountability, because that is a very important aspect of the work of the House.

The Auditor-General raised, and continues to raise, issues including structures that are not aligned in our department to ensure that financial and operational objectives are met. We have responded to these audit concerns. The strategic planning and monitoring unit and the chief audit executive are now at the appropriate level to improve accountability. The audit committee continues to play its role of oversight over controls. A separate risk management committee has been established. These efforts are starting to bear fruit. In the 2011 financial year, the Auditor-General produced only one qualification, namely the challenging and perennial problem of immoveable property.

I am pleased to announce that all but one of the deputy directors-general have been appointed. The only one that is outstanding is chief financial officer. The one we had resigned last year to take up a post in Sentech, because they pay much higher than we do.

I want to report to you on our progress with rural development, which is, when all is said and done, what our department is all about. Progress has been made, particularly in the implementation of the first phase of the CRDP, meeting basic human needs. The challenges are obstinate, particularly in the areas of sustainable job creation and enterprise development.

We have released a midterm review report from 2009 to date, which I hope the hon members will receive from us, if it has not been distributed already. We have been very honest in that report, looking at the challenges that we face and also providing clear reporting with regards to our achievements. It will be observed in that report, for example, that in Mhlongamvula in Mpumalanga, 200 hectares of soy and 200 hectares of maize have been planted and harvested. In addition, all other provinces, if we were to go into detail, are currently harvesting at least 400 hectares.

There is a place in the Western Cape called Nduli, situated next to Ceres. It's a fascinating area. I am sure the hon members who come from the Western Cape, particularly the hon MEC Bredell and my colleague who is responsible for agriculture here, will agree. These are promising areas because sometimes we get the impression that the agricultural sector is dead - as the hon member, my colleague, was saying. It's not; it's actually quite active and it is reviving. Through a combination of factors, and working together with our colleagues over there, the statistics are beginning to show that job creation is becoming positive.

Yet successes are invariably tempered with further challenges. In Diyatalawa in the Free State, for example, a community of 50 households grew a brilliant 100 hectare lucerne crop and harvested 314 tons of wheat. Despite this success, certain challenges persist, including the timing of planting and harvesting of crops, which may result in lesser yields in the next harvesting season. One other challenge facing this community is the absence of silos to store their crops, which would enable them to actually make a strategic decision. We are looking into this matter. We will deal with this matter in this financial year.

Yes, the Diyatalawa community was happy to have generated an income of R12 000 for each of the participating households, and yes, the community went further and used some of their income to plant new crops. In other words, the community is beginning to sustain itself little by little, because the support from the department is tapering off towards five years, when the community is supposed to be looking after itself.

With the best will in the world, the plain fact is that we are not in complete control of our own destiny, and in our case, we find that many rural areas are still experiencing backlogs in service delivery and infrastructure development. For this reason, over the past two years, as part of the CRDP, emphasis has been placed on providing new infrastructure and revitalising old infrastructure in our rural areas. What is especially needed is infrastructure to facilitate access to services and progress has been made, notably through the co-ordination of Outcome 7.

Regarding education, because rural development is transversal we do work with the Department of Higher Education and Training, as well as with the Department of Basic of Education, of course. In that work, we intervene in a number of ways, particularly in schools in rural areas. So far, 28 schools have been built or renovated as a direct result of that collaboration. Rural children are no less deserving of quality education than their counterparts in urban areas.

We further contribute to education and access to information technology. We have also rolled out the iSchool Africa programme, which provides learners and teachers with access to iPods, computers and digital cameras, linking them to a training programme that has already provided access to learners. Here in the Western Cape, near Oudtshoorn, the high school there, which hosts this kind of facility, linked up with Stellenbosch University to improve the matric results. So, it's a very useful tool that is used to develop education capacity in those rural areas.

When I spoke here last year, as a result of the initiative of the Chief Whip of the National Assembly to look at what that we could do to celebrate the life of the icon Tata Nelson Mandela, we spoke of the bridge. We decided to build a legacy bridge on Mbashe River. That bridge will be completed by January next year – it's a 144 metre-long bridge.

We are busy working and perhaps developing a new town in the country, at Nkandla. The next one will be Mayflower in Mpumalanga, and Jane Furse in Limpopo - those three.

Finally – because I see the time is moving very fast – let me move to young people. [Interjections.] This is the month of young people. [Interjections.] I am unable to talk about it now, because of the time limit that has been set.

The Recapitalisation and Development programme is a very important programme for us because it's a programme that is recapitalising farms that we acquired since 1994. This financial year, we recapitalised 595 farms, and this year we will recapitalise 416 across the country. Of course, we will also revive irrigation schemes like Keiskammahoek and Ncora in the Eastern Cape, Taung in the North West; Vaalharts in the Northern Cape, Nkomazi in Mpumalanga, and Tugela Ferry, Nsuze and Bululwane in KwaZulu-Natal. This is what we will do this financial year.

With regard to young people, in this financial year we will add to the 7 900 that we already have. We will add between 6 000 and 8 000 young people. As we speak, we have 855 who are helping us to count files - restitution claim files - in various provinces. Eight of them, who had mathematics and geography, have been trained in disaster management. A total of 4 050 are in FET colleges right now, being trained in built infrastructure. These are the young people who will develop rural communities.

Given that we have 8 041 of these young people, we think we are looking at 15 000 by the end of this financial year. We are looking at 8 800 in KwaZulu-Natal, which we are sending to Newcastle. There are 250 in the North West - we got their names yesterday from the MEC when we had a Minmec meeting. We are looking at 250 from the Northern Cape as well. We want to take this through, so that they can go further and get training for development. So, we are very committed to developing the skills of young people because they are the future.

We are also very close to completing the Land Reform Green Paper, and the Rural Development Green Paper is in the office as well. We are working on Jacobsdal in the Free State, developing a multipurpose facility there. It is a work in progress. We are just starting at Masia in Limpopo with the multicultural village, which we will develop together with the Minister of Arts and Culture, as well as the Minister of Sport and Recreation. So, we are making progress. I see the time and you have made your point. I thank you very much. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 45


Mrs A N D QIKANI: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, hon MECs, hon members and also officials from the different departments, it is with much pride that I present this afternoon the debate on the following Budget Votes: Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Vote 26; Environmental Affairs Vote 30; Rural Development and Land Reform Vote 33; and Water Affairs Vote 38.

In April this year, I was invited to an expert consultation for Southern and East Africa, hosted by the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food. This important meeting was called to address the implementation of one of the socioeconomic rights that is enshrined in our Constitution - the right to food. Last year, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food visited our plentiful country and met with several Ministers to discuss the implementation of the right to food in South Africa. His final report, published in January this year, makes several recommendations on how we as a nation can implement this basic human right in our country and address food insecurity and poverty.

I must say, Minister, we called your department to address the committee on this important issue and I must report to the House this afternoon that your department has drafted a food security policy and is actively promoting the Zero Hunger programme. These two initiatives are exciting and we need these tools to fight the surge of poverty, inequality and hunger, which hold us back. The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs will be tracking the progress made in this regard.

Another important aspect that I must address this afternoon is all the budget allocations for the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme, together with other funding mechanisms, like the funding programmes of the Micro Agriculture Finance Institute of SA. These programmes of government are meant to reach poor farmers and assist land reform beneficiaries by making their projects successful.

Hon members, the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs conducted several oversight visits in a few districts. Once again, all the government programmes that are being mentioned, with the allocated funds, are yet to reach the intended recipients. Food security and hunger are challenges that we are trying to overcome. However, this can only happen if we all work together.

Regarding Vote 30, that of the Department of Environmental Affairs, we thank you, Minister, for hosting a successful COP17. However, your work starts now because you have many set obligations and you need to deliver on these promises. This year, the world will be celebrating Rio+20 UN Earth Summit 2012. We started the debate on sustainable development 20 years ago and two decades later we are still talking. We need to start acting and I know that you are pushing your department to do just that.

I want to congratulate you, Minister, for the good leadership you provide and the excellent work that the director-general, Ms Ngcaba, is doing to ensure that the department is operating smoothly. Her commitment is unwavering and her team always attends committee meetings and adhere to the timeframes we set.

The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs will be tracking your efforts in co-ordinating the process to define South Africa's desired emission reduction outcomes in key sectors; the implementation of the Green Climate Fund; and the creation of green jobs. The R800 million provided over two years to kick-start the fund is welcomed, but you will need to be innovative in creating many opportunities with less resources. The opportunities that are afforded by the creation of these jobs are exciting for the mainstreaming of biodiversity and climate change issues, together with the consolidation of the various Expanded Public Works Programme.

Minister, you are carefully illustrating how we can make our environment work for all South Africans if we manage our resources carefully. We are further encouraged by various information and planning tools developed by the SA National Biodiversity Institute to assist with the environmental impact assessment process. If we clearly mark the areas for development and leave the ones desperately needed for ecosystem function, then we will achieve our goal of sustainable development.

The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs applauds the initiative by the department to develop an integrated authorisation system. We can learn from how effective environmental authorisations are done so that the backlog in water licences can be addressed.

The department's work on assessing the state of the nation's biodiversity is great but the results are dire. We need to do more in this regard. We cannot escape the developmental path that we need as a country, but as a nation we also need food, water and a safe, healthy and working environment. If we cannot implement sustainable development, then we will not be able to survive.

The new polar research vessel is welcomed because we need research to ensure that oceans and coasts are managed well. However, the programme as a whole has a decreased budget, even though there is rapid expansion in terms of human resources within oceans and coasts.

Let me come to Vote 33. The resolution of the 52nd national conference of the ANC on agrarian transformation and rural development confirmed the ANC's acute awareness and sensitivity to the centrality of the land. The question of land is a fundamental element in the resolution of race, gender and class contradictions in South Africa. Agrarian transformation is a pillar of any national democratic revolution and denotes a rapid and fundamental change in the relations, systems and patterns of ownership and control of land, livestock, cropping and community. The goal of the strategy is social cohesion and development. In this manner, we are addressing the core of the repossession of land seized through force and deceit, so restoring the centrality of indigenous culture.

The people's cultural practices, especially those that crosscut cultures, serve as a bond that holds together multicultural committees into single coherent societies, despite different cultures. Ubuntu or human solidarity is such a crosscutting culture in the case of African societies. It is the overarching way of life of the African people, which is integrally linked to land. Any attempt at restoring ubuntu without a concomitant land restoration will be futile. Land is fundamental to ubuntu.

The ANC resolutions have guided government on these matters. The 49th national conference of the ANC held in 1994 resolved that:

The state needs to play a central in identifying and acquiring land which is strategically located to meet the pressing needs of the landless and homeless and must provide national guidelines on the allocation of communal land which are transparent, involve effective community and individual participation, and reflect the new democratic context.

The long-term goal of land reform is social cohesion and development. In this context, the concept "development" refers to shared growth, prosperity, relative income equality, full employment and cultural progress.

On the restitution of land rights, we seek in essence to redress the apartheid and colonial-based land dispossessions. This means that we have to review and amend the current regulatory framework and reopen the date for claims, so that it takes into consideration the periods before 1913 and after the closing date of 31 December 1998. This will ensure that all those who had been left out of the process have the opportunity to apply. The reality is that tens of thousands were disposed of their land rights before 1913 and many legitimate claimants did not meet the 31 December 1998 deadline to lodge land restitution claims. The limitation in the Constitution in section 25(7) must therefore be amended to accommodate this.

The model of restitution policy needs to be crafted so as to ensure that its content specifically protects and entrenches the rights of dwellers, workers and tenants. Further, the lacuna in the legislation needs to be rectified. Amended policy and subsequent legislation must allow for the building of houses on private farms. Similarly, schools and clinics on private farms must have legislative protection and must not exist and continue to function on the goodwill of the farmer.

Tenure rights must be incorporated into a remodelled restitution framework so that the production relations between tenants, dwellers, workers and their children on the one hand and, on the other, farmers as the owners of the land are remodelled. This remodelling must also include the way in which each stakeholder owns land and through the subdivision of land for families.

The 52nd national conference of tANC also addressed defending and advancing the rights and economic position of farm dwellers through improved organisation and better enforcement of existing laws. The sad reality is that between 1994 and 2003, approximately 940 000 farm dwellers were evicted, with only one percent being evicted in accordance with the Constitution - through a court order. Many of these were women and children.

In conclusion, let me talk about water affairs. We said that everybody in the country is crying for water and I think the Minister should look into that issue. The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs supports the three Budget Votes. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 46


Ms N MAYATHULA-KHOZA (Gauteng): Hon Chair, hon Minister, MECs, hon members, hon mayors, traditional leaders, representatives of organised agriculture, rural development and environment, distinguished guests, directors-general, ladies and gentlemen, I stand here to support the three Budget Votes presented by the Ministers.

Let me start with Rural Development and Land Reform, and we support that Budget Vote. As you recall, hon Chair, immediately after the President and the Minister launched the Comprehensive Rural Development Strategy at Muyexe in Limpopo, we as a province also launched the Gauteng Comprehensive Rural Development Strategy in line with the national one.

Even though we all know that Gauteng is an urban province, we do have some rural areas. We are about 93% urban and 7% rural. We can therefore never neglect our people who live in rural areas. As such, we are implementing the comprehensive rural development strategy as we speak. We squarely support the Budget Vote of Rural Development and Land Reform, because we work very closely with the Minister and the officials of that department. For example, they helped us to develop status reports for four rural nodes that we have identified in Gauteng, namely, Devon in Lesedi, Bantubonke in Midvaal, Hekpoort in the West Rand - the Mayor is here with us - KwaSokhulumi in Tshwane, which used to be called Motsweding. So, a lot of progress has actually been made in those rural nodes of Gauteng, including the development of houses in Midvaal, upgrading of roads, access to transport, especially in the province's "maize triangle, and the agricultural infrastructure programmes.

Most importantly, we receive reports on a quarterly basis from the officials deployed in Gauteng. We also learnt that Gauteng was doing very well as far as land restitution was concerned. We are at 97% in terms of land claims that have been settled by national government – we appreciate that. We are informed that many of the outstanding claims are because the people involved cannot be traced, while the others will be followed through by national government.

We also want to express our appreciation to the Minister for the recapitalisation and development programme. Many of our farmers, about 37 of them, have benefited from this programme. As we speak, a number of jobs have been created as a result of these programmes. Food production has also been increased.

We also want to appreciate the National Rural Youth Service Corps programme, which targets young people. We were able to identify about 1 055 young people in the last financial year. We were requested to identify 800 more and we actually identified 1 000 more young people who are part of the National Rural Youth Service Corps programme. They have been placed in various infrastructure programmes in the province and in agricultural projects. This is why we express our appreciation for the support we get from the national Department of Rural Development and Land Reform.

We know there are many other needy provinces.We know that therefore we are not part of the districts identified to receive further funding for comprehensive rural development, because we are predominantly urban. But we need to recognise that there is urban poverty in Gauteng as well. However, we align ourselves with these words of the Minister in his budget speech:

Unsurprisingly, yet frighteningly, household food security remains one of the main challenges facing vulnerable rural communities. That is partially why our department, as part of Phase 1, has placed emphasis on improving food productivity. We have, for example, as part of a pilot project, and in collaboration with the Agricultural Research Council, trained 800 agri-paraprofessionals in vegetable production. We hope that those who have been trained will assist the communities they come from, in improving their ability to grow more and better food.

We appreciate these programmes because indeed they have contributed to growing the economy in our province and have created jobs for our people. We welcome the department's Green Paper and as we speak we are consulting with the farmers and other stakeholders to make a submission to this paper, which will take forward land reform in our country.

I would also like to support the Budget Vote by the Minister of Agriculture Forestry and Fisheries as it relates to food security. We in the province have also committed ourselves to agrarian reform and food security. We support this Budget Vote, because it is in line with the ANC manifesto, which states:

The pursuit of household and national food security is a comprehensive mandate of the ANC-led government. We have to create an environment which ensures that there is adequate food available to all, now and in the future, and that hunger is eradicated.

The Freedom Charter also states: "Rent and prices shall be lowered, food shall be plentiful and no one shall go hungry."

We support this Budget Vote because of the support, in terms of funds, that we get from the department. We receive money from the Comprehensive Agricultural Support programme to the tune of R24 million. We receive Letsema conditional grants to the tune of R17 million, extension recovery programme money to the tune of R18 million, and disaster management funds to the tune of R4 million - and we put these funds to good use. As a result, because of the interventions of the provincial government, working with local government and national government as a collective, we have seen growth in terms of the number of jobs in our province.

The Minister made reference to the fact that Stats SA reported that the agricultural sector has increased the number of jobs that are created in our country. Gauteng is one of the two provinces that contributed to the 70 000 job increase that we experienced in the first quarter of 2012. We must congratulate our agricultural sector, food security sector and our Ministers for this.

In summary, on food security and agriculture, because of the support we get we have revitalised the "maize triangle". We have seen a great deal of agricultural infrastructure development happening within that area, also in terms of vegetables and pack houses. For example, there is a super, grand feed-milling plant, which is being managed by young people and they are doing very well, in terms of agro-processing. They are producing feed. They are marketing the feed to Zimbabwe, Mozambique and now to Mauritius as well. So, all this is because of the support we get. We are also going to upscale our agro-processing programmes, because we have identified agro-processing as our niche market in Gauteng, given that we are doing so well.

In the interests of time, let me move on to environment. As Gauteng, we have committed ourselves to the protection and enhancement of environmental assets and mineral resources in our province. We have in fact undertaken a "state of the environment" report in the province, which has indicated that our environment is under stress. For that reason we have committed ourselves to work with the national government - with the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs - on these issues.

Today, we want to express our support for the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs. Water in the province is taken care of by the MEC and the department of local government and housing, but we take care of environment. So, we work very closely with the Minister and the department on issues of climate change and air quality. We also want to add our congratulations to the Minister and Deputy Minister in the department for successfully hosting Cop 17. We will therefore implement the policy that has been developed by the Minister and the department.

We have our climate strategy. We have many strategies on air quality and waste management in the province. Together with management we will ensure that we reduce the stress our environment experiences. We will implement the greenhouse gas inventory. Thanks to the Deputy Minister, who championed the Marine Acquaculture Association of South Africa programme - njengomagogo [as a granny] - which ensures that our air quality is improved. In the interests of time ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon MEC, your time has expired.

Ms N MAYATHULA-KHOZA: Yes, thank you very much, Chair. I wish to conclude by saying that we support all three Budget Votes. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 47


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Chair of the NCOP, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, MECs, members of the NCOP, colleagues and distinguished guests, as we celebrate Youth Month and also Environment Month under the theme "The Green Economy: Does it include you?", the question is: You and I - are we included?

The water and environment sectors are faced with several challenges, such as environmental degradation, climate change, poor waste management, rhino poaching, communities without access to water, poor water quality, pollution of our rivers, unaccounted-for water through leaks and climate change, among other issues.

We are one government. We work with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and also with other government departments, water sectors and water partners. So far, we have visited some of the 23 priority municipalities and had several consultation meetings with MECs of local government, executive mayors and traditional leaders. These meetings are aimed at presenting the Situation Assessment Report for concurrence, getting a better understanding of the water and environment challenges and developing the Programme of Action.

Working together has yielded good results. Through collaboration with the Department of Science and Technology and the Amathole and OR Tambo District Municipalities, we launched the Accelerated and Sustainable Water Services Delivery Project, which provided water to approximately 9 000 people in Mbelu village. I am happy to see the MEC who was with us in the Eastern Cape is here.

Chief Takalani from Mukula village in Limpopo and Chieftainess Mgwebi from Mhlahlane village in the Eastern Cape have set a good example of working together to address service delivery issues. They wrote letters to us about the water situation in their communities and guided us in finding solutions. We are proud to announce that the people of Mukula and Mhlahlane now have drinking water as part of our short-term intervention, while we are finalising the long-term plan, which will be completed before the end of this year.

Through collaboration with the KwaZulu-Natal provincial government and the Mhlathuze Water Board and Umkhanyakude District Municipality, we provided short-term interventions that brought water to communities. We started with the short term, long term will come later - as long as people get water.

Most municipalities committed to the initiation of water conservation programmes to reduce water leaks. Many have now come on board. These consultation meetings with municipalities created an enabling environment for the integration of the environment into the business of municipalities.

The active participation of women in water and environmental resource management is crucial. Women have been the custodians since time immemorial, hence our commitment to have dedicated programmes for women. I am sure those who were in the NCOP yesterday will see that we are doing chapter two of what we said yesterday.

Through the Adopt-a-River project, aimed at improving the ecosystems of our rivers, we have created 1 008 jobs for women and trained them in a basic, accredited environmental management course. This year we will also identify 90 young women who will be trained in basic water-quality testing and we will create an enabling environment for them to study further. They will tell a story that will go like this: I started as a river cleaner; now I am a scientist.

The Women in Water Awards have encouraged women to showcase water-related projects. National winners are eligible for cash prizes, which are used for further development of such projects. Moving forward, we will mobilise the private sector and other government departments to come on board and support us in realising our vision of developing these women to form small, medium and micro enterprises and co-operatives. We will intensify this programme.

The Working for Water programme has created 13 541 jobs. The Women in the Environment conference gave women an opportunity to give their input in policy development, exhibit their projects and establish a national steering committee composed of provincial representatives.

We created 400 jobs through youth environmental programmes. We will provide support to young people to establish and register a company to provide environmental goods and services.

The War on Leaks project continues to reduce unaccounted-for water, while creating employment and skills development for young people. In Mogale City Local Municipality, Gauteng, 40 young people were trained on how to fix leaking water taps and toilets, logging, control valve operation and maintenance, and educated on the importance of conserving water. This project reached 200 households and 21 schools. We are planning to extend this project to Limpopo, North West and Eastern Cape, targeting 300 young people this year.

Our learning academy has awarded 494 bursaries over the past five years and 82 graduate trainees were appointed. Sebenza Nathi project is a partnership with Rand Water. We have trained 17 unemployed graduates as technicians and they have been placed in Lesedi, Merafong, Emfuleni, Midvaal and Randfontein municipalities in Gauteng. We will extend this project to other provinces.

Our school-based water and environmental education programme, implemented in collaboration with the Department of Basic Education, has achieved the following: Water and environment has been incorporated into the Curriculum Assessment and Policy Statement, or Caps. Through the 2020 Vision Programme, we reached 1 000 schools through the SA Youth Water Prize and Baswa le Meetse projects. The winners will go to Sweden. We also have a partnership with the Department of Science and Technology and the Water Research Commission for our SA Youth Water Prizes. We always go to Stockholm with the winners. In partnership with MTN we were able to provide 700 computers to the national winners.

We annually host our National Youth Water Summit for the 2020 Vision Programme. This year, we have extended it to the Southern African Development Community and also to four other countries outside SADC. They will also develop the draft Africa Youth Water Strategy, which will be presented to the African Ministers' Council on Water.

In conclusion, water and environment resources are our treasure, sources of life and catalysts for economic development. Let us conserve them. Let us declare war on leaks for water conservation. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 48


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: My respect to you, Chairperson, all members present in the House and our special guests in the gallery. Explaining why systems often do not work, a gentleman called Robert Pirsig argues that if a factory is torn down but the rationality that produced it is left standing, then that rationality will simply produce another factory.

If a revolution destroys a government but the systematic patterns of thought that produced that government are left intact, then those patterns will simply repeat themselves. This is the challenge that we face in this area of responsibility. We argue that our task in this area is to undo the conditions that give rise to poverty, unemployment and inequality, which are found acutely in the rural areas where we work.

Our collaboration and working together with other departments, especially both the departments of basic and higher education, as the Minister said, is crucial to underpin the socioeconomic infrastructure that we are laying in these areas.

The criterion that all infrastructure must be environmentally sensitive and must underpin spatial integration, banish rural isolation and create jobs is crucial in overturning the problematic structure of the South African economy.

We would not be able to do this work effectively without the support of decisive leadership. We do experience that in this department, which is passionately and persistently led by the Minister. It is as a result of that kind of leadership that we will be able to see a multiplication of the impact that we expect in these areas by working across a variety of areas.

We are also paying special attention to the tools of the trade that officials in the department have to use. In fact, I am convinced that without the effective use of information and communication technologies, the enormous potential to improve our responsiveness, internally and externally, to the public we serve will not be realised. We fully support the emerging call, via the call for science and technology innovation, to increase especially public investment in socially relevant research and development, with special emphasis on ICTs and including renewable energy, etc.

Indeed, interesting things are already happening. Witness how solar energy has enabled rural schools to operate computers and enabled scholars in these areas to study at night. This simple technology is making a huge difference in the lives of our rural communities, and it can do more. The sun is not about to go out in these areas. We are excited by the enthusiasm of the Ministry of Communication and its team of officials who are working with us on this project.

Look at what has happened in communities where we have built ICT centres. It brings a new spirit to the entire community. These centres quickly become community hubs, where traditionally people enjoyed sharing cultural and community knowledge. Now we add to this communal mix technology and the world of knowledge that technology makes available, particularly information that can make a difference in their lives.

This is a particular function of communications. We have decided to reorganise ours in the department and we remain committed to enabling people to access our information and services readily and rapidly, as well as empowering our officials with the knowledge and skills necessary to harness this and improve our delivery of services. This year we will implement a comprehensive communication strategy.

We want many people to grasp the full extent of our services. We have some of the best cadastre spatial planning systems in the world. Cadastre is the comprehensive register of our nation's real estate, its quantity, ownership and value. Yet we don't often speak about it. This is what we are deploying now to determine what land we own, where is it located, who is using it and under what conditions.

We are also continuing to maintain and improve the control of survey network and to further develop this process of digitising all the cadastral survey and Deeds Office records. It will help us with a range of issues and remove many backlogs for those out there who deal in this area of work and have an interest in it. To date we have electronically scanned 88 million paper-based images as part of the digitisation aspect of the e-Cadastre effort. This project, which is expected to be completed next year, will have a huge impact on turnaround times in land transactions, where these are happening legitimately, and will result in registrations being effected on average from four to two days.

However, it would be a mistake to think that everything is rosy. We are constrained especially by not yet having the strong ability to train and employ appropriately skilled professionals in the surveying, deeds, town planning and geographic information system fields. To continue where the Minister left off, as a proactive initiative, during the period under review the department trained over 120 pupil surveying officers, who subsequently graduated to become surveying officers. More than 30% of these are now undergoing training at various tertiary institutions, studying geomatics and surveying.

Through the scare-skills bursary we have sponsored 210 students to study geomatics and surveying in both diploma and master's degree programmes over the medium term. We have further placed 65 qualified students at various Surveyors-General offices to undergo practical training. This is a strategy for deploying special skills in key areas and in an area that remains key in the acquisition of land, how it is managed, how we determine where it is located and who runs it.

A variety of government departments, together with the state-owned enterprises, own huge tracks of land. This fragmented ownership of state land is a situation we inherited from the past, when numerous provincial administrations came together and so on.

When the nine provinces were established and municipalities were reduced from over 800 to just over 200, matters didn't improve sufficiently. This is something we are now set to address. We initiated a project to identify state-owned land parcels from owners who have registered - as I said earlier - managed by the Deeds Registration Office. The results of a desktop analysis show that there are more of these in place. We hope members will receive information that clarifies where we are at with these processes. We will have quality data to deploy for use in the decision–making process and when we introduce policy, following our Green Paper process and the emerging rural development policy. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 49


Ms B P MABE: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, hon members, special guests, in his inaugural address as the fourth President of the Republic of South Africa, Comrade President Jacob Zuma made a commitment to South Africans that for as long as there are communities without clean water, decent shelter and proper sanitation, we shall not rest, and we dare not falter. It is therefore accepted as a given that the work of the ANC-led government will not be complete until the last person in the most remote village has access to clean, drinkable water and there is sufficient water for economic growth and social development.

There has since been a greater commitment to water conservation and demand-side management and more attention is being paid to clean technology programmes. The basic household water supply programme has lead to improved and more equitable access to water resources. Between 1994 and 2010, the number of South Africans with access to a basic water supply increased from 23 million to 46,3 million, which translates to an increase from 59% to 93% of the population. I thought you would applaud because these are the gains made by the ANC. [Applause.]

In his 2012 state of the nation address, President Zuma mentioned that although the government continues to extend access to a basic water supply, water access is still a challenge in some areas. Water expansion has been delayed in some parts of the country due to the lack of infrastructure, which is being attended to.

Current demands for water are being met, mainly through large engineering projects that require substantial capital investment in infrastructure. The Olifants River Water Resource in Steelpoort in the Limpopo province; the Vaal River Eastern Sub-System in Secunda in Mpumalanga; the Komati Water Augmentation Scheme in Nkangala in Mpumalanga; and the raising of the Hazelmere Dam in KwaZulu-Natal and Clanwilliam Dam in Clanwilliam in the Western Cape are the new water augmentation schemes that are on schedule.

It is therefore laudable that the spending focus over the medium-term will be on water resources, infrastructure development and bulk distribution, in order to provide a reliable supply of water from bulk raw water resources infrastructure to meet sustainable demand for South Africa. This focus is also expected to create jobs, in line with the government's New Growth Path framework.

However, the transformation of the water boards and broad-based black economic empowerment needs to be strengthened. We received numerous reports about the reluctance and resistance from the Berg River in recognising BBBEE participation. It has to be clarified why they still use water boards as opposed to water users associations in the Western Cape.

Water supply and sanitation services depend on the availability of adequate water resources and may damage natural resources such as rivers and underground water if not managed properly. For this reason the authorities responsible for water resource management will co-ordinate their activities with local service providers and monitor and support them. New management tools that promote the principles of integrated and participatory management are therefore required.

I am specifically referring to steps being taken to safeguard the quality of drinking, river and underground water. Water quality in our country is a key priority for the ANC-led government. Government takes very seriously its mandate as custodians of the nation's water resources. Over the years this government has sought to perfect strategies and planning initiatives to ensure only the best water is supplied to our citizens - not just water, but the best water. Through these efforts, South Africa's tap water remains among the best in the world and we are one of only a handful of countries where you can drink water directly from the tap - and we are in Africa.

The Blue Drop certification programme is a means of regulation designed and implemented with the objective of improved tap water quality management. This is an innovation that has been embraced by the majority of our municipalities over the past four years. This is borne out of the marked improvement in the submission of performance portfolios by municipalities.

The Green Drop certification programme, on the other hand, is an effort to ensure that wastewater works progressively improve their operations so that they do not impact negatively on the water bodies into which they discharge their product. Green Drop status implies excellent wastewater management and respect for the environment and the health of the community at large. It is internationally regarded as unique in the wastewater regulatory domain.

A sign or flag indicating that a town has Blue or Green Drop status will allow consumers to drink water from the taps in the town with confidence, secure in the knowledge that wastewater is managed and discharged in a sustainable and environmentally acceptable manner. However, in towns that have not yet been awarded the Blue Drop, the water should not be perceived as being unsafe for human consumption, but rather that the manner in which drinking water quality is being managed still required improvement.

The other threat to the quality and safety of our water sources is the problem of acid mine drainage. This is a worldwide problem and it has been described as the single-largest environmental problem facing the mining industry, particularly because it is persistent, costly and tends to be a liability for mines, long after they cease to operate. Acid mine drainage is the flow or seepage of polluted water from old mining areas. Depending on the area, the water may contain toxic heavy metals and radioactive particles that are dangerous for people's health, as well as for plants and animals.

According to a December 2010 report commissioned by the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Acid Mine Drainage, the mining companies and government have until June 2012 to control acid mine drainage before the toxic water under central Johannesburg begins to flood the tourist mine in Golf Reef City, with estimates of water possibly reaching the surface, initially in the Boksburg area, in March 2013.

On the East Rand, because the pumping of water from the Grootvlei Mine near Springs stopped in early 2011, estimates suggest that acid mine drainage will flow onto the surface of the ground near the Nigel central business district in three or five years, if action is not taken. The Blesbokspruit and the Marievale Bird Sanctuary are already contaminated with toxic mine water.

Two weeks ago, the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs gave an update on the steps taken to deal with acid mine drainage in the Witwatersrand area. A ministerial directive was issued on 6 April 2011 and three basins are being monitored. In the immediate term, Water Affairs is attending to the installation of pumps, the construction of water treatment plants and the release of treated water into river systems. It is seeking environmental and regulatory approval and funding from National Treasury.

The guiding spirit of these and other programmes lies in the ANC-led government's resolution to address the eradication of poverty and transform our society and economy. In this regard, the ANC's 2012 January 8 message reiterated that the ANC-led government had prioritised the development of an institutional and legislative framework that would ensure the transformation of society and create an environment for appropriate social and economic development, and that the reprioritisation of the national Budget supported policies and programmes of departments such as the Water Affairs towards greater investment in social infrastructure.

Before I conclude, I want to mention that hon Deputy Minister Mabudafhasi has always been a strategic partner of Mogale City. We thank you very much for your support. Every year, she ensures that she visits the municipality. By the way, Mogale City is the municipality that I am from. With those words, we support the budget. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 50


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson, hon Minister, ladies and gentlemen, we all know that the agricultural, forestry and fisheries sectors are of utmost importance and the backbone of socioeconomic development in South Africa. However, these sectors are facing immense challenges. Climate change, the growth and urbanisation of the population, skills shortages and shifts to the global economy and markets are among these imminent challenges.


Die departement se kernprioriteite is daarom belyn om voedselsekerheid en –veiligheid te verseker te midde van hierdie veranderde omgewing en toename in die bevolking.


The support of the state-owned entities in the sector is a partnership that has evolved over decades and in some instances has gone through a century. More than ever the diverse South African sector requires a committed partnership between the private and all the public sector organs. We must strive to keep this vertical and horizontal partnership aligned in order to realise the objective of vibrant, equitable and sustainable rural communities with food security for all.

Century-old lessons point to the recognition of the capabilities of food producers to save a nation. It should all begin with research and development.


Daarom mag ons die rol van die Landbounavorsingsraad nooit onderskat nie. Die kernmandaat van die LNR is om die landbou se bydrae tot beter lewensgehalte te bevorder en om doeltreffende natuurlike hulpbronbestuur te verseker.


At production level the ARC will analyse individual eco-climatic zones and advise appropriately on improved practices, crops and nutritional varieties for local production. The ARC will further conduct on-site research to document real farm problems for strategic solutions in future planning.

The ARC will accelerate the establishment of sustainable fruit and vegetable enterprises in the four provinces of the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo and Mpumalanga. The support will focus on semicommercial farming enterprises and the establishment of village-based markets, fruit and vegetable nurseries, as well as co-operatives.

Through Ncera Farms, the department will develop and improve on the provision of extension, mechanical services, training and agricultural support services as a platform for practical experience to graduate in farmers.

To continue strategically positioning South African agriculture in the dynamic global markets the National Agricultural Marketing Council will roll out its programme of development schemes to support the red-meat industry, developing wine producers and crop production.

To support the red-meat industry the National Red Meat Development Programme was initiated to stimulate the participation of emerging and communal farmers in converting raising cattle into participation in formal red-meat markets.

Wine production is another area of potential growth, especially in job creation. The flagship project is a vineyard development scheme in collaboration with the Northern Cape province, WineTech, Distell and OVK Cellars. The scheme has 64 beneficiaries and an additional two trusts comprising 466 beneficiaries. Over 100 jobs have been created by this project.

The NAMC continues monitoring food prices to ensure appropriate private and public sector responses, when required. This will also provide an important measure of transparency in the market. Monitoring input costs by the NAMC allows the public and private sector to fully grasp the impact thereof on the food value chain.

In recent times, the outbreak of diseases and pests has demanded of our scientific community at Onderstepoort Biological Products to do research and produce vaccines that help build a healthier and more commercially successful livestock population. The quality of OBP vaccines is a critical issue. The quality-control system has been accredited and this must ensure that no substandard batches of vaccines leave the plant. Profits are being invested in new product development and replacing critical equipment to maintain manufacturing capacity over the short term.

Let's get to the legislative review.


Ons is besig met die hersiening en wysiging van alle toepaslike wetgewing om sodoende by die veranderde omgewing en voortdurende uitdagings aan te pas.


The following Bills will be processed to bring them in line with current realities: the Plant Breeder's Rights Amendment Bill, the Veterinary and Para-Veterinary Professions Amendment Bill, the Liquor Products Amendment Bill and the Fertilisezs and Feeds Bill. Subsequent to a tender process, the University of Pretoria has been appointed as the service provider to assist the department with the review of all this legislation.


Voorsitter, my tyd is verstreke. Ek wil almal hartlik bedank. Ek het geluister na die voorsitter van die komitee, wat ook na grond verwys het en ek is jammer ek kon nie daarby uitkom nie. Ek is steeds beïndruk met die goedgesindheid en die goeie samewerking op grondvlak tussen almal wat met grond te doen het en opheffing soek.

Ek is wel bekommerd omdat van die jeuglede gister gesê het boere wat wil leef, moet hulle grond verlaat. Dit maak dit vir ons baie moeilik, want tans is daar baie goeie samewerking van alle rolspelers op die georganiseerde landbouvlak, te wete kleinboere, bestaansboere en ander boere. Dié opmerkings gaan ons niks help nie. [Applous.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 51


CLLR C NEETHLING (Salga): Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Ministers, deputy Ministers, MECs, chairpersons of the select committtes, hon members of the NCOP and special delegates, major strides have been made at local government level in relation to water services. The majority of South Africans have access to water and sanitation infrastructure and services. Most municipalities are striving to similarly improve delivery in respect of solid waste.

Regarding water, we will welcome the emphasis in the Budget Vote on the strengthening of the capacity of municipalities to enhance service delivery. The programmes highlighted have to some extent added value for municipalities. It is therefore our desire that the hon Minister continues to roll out such support programmes. Our only concern regarding support programmes is the extent to which they translate to sustainable capacity building and performance at a municipal level.

At the Salga national conference on 11 September 2011, a number of key strategic areas towards enhancing the capacities of municipalities where identified. In this regard, we would like to work closely with the hon Minister in realising such resolutions. We welcome the decision to establish nine catchment management agencies. It is hoped that the establishment costs have been determined and that they would not be a burden to water users in the establishment phases.

As organised local government, our interest is in the reform process of water boards. We recommend that the hon Minister gives organised local government an opportunity to make an input before the final decision is made.

The bulk raw water projects announced in the Budget Vote are of a strategic nature. They are necessary to sustain the ever-increasing needs generated by social and economic growth. Going forward, it will be of critical importance for the sector to have robust discussion on a common funding model for the entire value and, most importantly, to devise mechanisms to embrace cost-reflective tariffs.

Water losses at municipal level continue to be a concern to us. In a quest to respond to the challenge, a joint programme is being developed under the leadership of the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs. The hon Minister and water-sector stakeholders will be appraised of the programme as it unfolds.

With regard to environmental and waste management, we would like to commend the department for its commitment to improving environmental impact assessment authorisation and waste licences. It will bring great relief to municipalities, since some service delivery projects take longer because of the processes of environmental impact assessment and waste licensing. Regarding the authorisation of private developments, it is recommended that the department should solicit input from the municipality within which the development is going to take place.

Cabinet approved the National Waste Management Strategy in November 2011, which requires waste to be managed in accordance with the waste hierarchy. Municipalities are required to play a huge role in ensuring that the goals and targets set in the strategy are met. It is recommended that the department should prioritise the building of capacity for municipalities to perform this function.

We welcome the launch of the National Biodiversity Assessment Report because it will assist municipalities to understand the state of our ecosystems, which include fresh water, terrestrial, estuarine and marine environments. In regard to the Ocean Management Policy Green Paper, a local government position will be developed once it is out for comment.

Regarding rural development, the various rural development initiatives adopted by government thus far have had varying degrees of success, largely due to the challenges associated with the establishment of viable institutional arrangements to co-ordinate, manage and align the initiatives of the plethora of stakeholders and development partners in rural development, as well as the development of the capacity of rural people to take charge of their own destiny. Being the sphere of government that is closest to the people, the central role that local government should play in rural development initiatives should, in Salga's view, find resonance in programmes and projects that seek to address rural poverty. The hon Minister reported on progress made on a number of projects, which Salga believes could act as catalysts in addressing the scourge of rural poverty. It is acknowledged that projects and programmes are a key component in driving back the frontiers of rural poverty. However, the sustainability of these rural development initiatives lie in building systems and strategies that will enable rural communities to find solutions to their own development needs. Given that all rural development programmes have a spatial dimension, are implemented in the municipal space and have implications for municipal resources, both in a short and long term, the central role of municipalities in the sustainability of rural development initiatives cannot be overemphasised.

There is an opportunity for the local government sector to proactively partner with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and systematically pursue the rural development agenda in a manner that allows the creation of a platform for sharing good practises across all spheres of government.

The revitalisation of the eight irrigation schemes in the former homelands will ultimately improve food security in the relevant communities and also provide a dignified method of earning a living. As I previously mentioned, these rural development initiatives are inextricably intertwined with other municipal, local economic development initiatives, which once more underscores the need for a collaborative and co-operative approach in the planning, implementation and sustainable management of these development initiatives.

Finally, Salga looks forward to making a constructive input into the legislative and policy-development process. The involvement of Salga in these processes at the early stages will assist in ensuring that municipalities make meaningful contributions to the policy proposals that have a bearing on their areas of functional competence.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 52

Cllr NEETHLING (Salga)


Mnr G VAN RENSBURG (Wes-Kaap): Agb Voorsitter, Ministers, Adjunkministers, my kollegas in ander provinsies, en lede van die NRVP, ...


... many people in South Africa think our country's history ended after our first democratic election in 1994. That is not true. We have already created another 18 years of history. As politicians and government officials, we need to ask ourselves what our contribution was to the post-1994 history. We need to ask whether we have contributed to a better or a worse South Africa.

The gap between rich and poor is increasing each year in South Africa. In South Africa, 50% of the people between the ages of 18 and 25 are unemployed. This is truly a social crisis.

While there is a scarcity of opportunities in general in South Africa, the problem is focused in our rural areas especially. Opportunities in South Africa are concentrated in our cities. Our small towns and villages are often dying a slow death. Even food is more expensive in our rural villages than in the large metros.

In South Africa we need a more equal society, but we cannot achieve that by simply dividing what we have between everyone. The cake is too small, and we will not succeed. No, we have to grow our economy in order to create new wealth for our people. It is estimated that, if the Western Cape can grow its agricultural exports by only 5%, then we will create 23 000 new jobs.

I will be departing for the Yantai International Wine Festival in China in the near future. Accompanying me will be new farmers who my department is supporting to access international markets.

I am concerned about the unintended negative consequences of the Proactive Land Acquisition Strategy. New farmers complain to me that they cannot access financing in order to progress on the PLAS farms. I believe that beneficiaries should receive ownership of land. This will allow them to access private sector financing. It will also make it easier to implement support programmes from the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries.

We can sell these farms at a 0,1% interest rate to the beneficiaries with government financing. Then, with card and transport in hand, they will be motivated to improve and invest with private sector financing. There are new farmers out there who want to use the opportunities government has given them to become independent commercial producers. They have the ability to employ people and to contribute to our economy.

I want to ask for better co-ordination between the support offered by the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform on the one hand and the provincial departments of agriculture on the other. The current arrangement of government leasing land to beneficiaries is affecting our ability to support these beneficiaries with the agricultural support, through the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme, due to conflicting ownership requirements. The lease periods are often too short for agriculture to finance infrastructure support.


Dankie, Minister Nkwinti, vir die geld wat u beskikbaar gestel het vir landelike ontwikkelingsprojekte. Dankie ook vir u departement se amptenare op grondvlak. Hulle doen groot werk en werk saam met my departement om 'n verskil te maak aan mense wat swaar kry. Ons sal seker maak dat die geld wat u en ook ander departemente gee, op 'n eerlike en 'n doelgerigte wyse aangewend word om 'n verskil te maak.

Minister Nkwinti, te veel herstrukturering en nuwe planne maak dit dikwels moeilik en soms onmoontlik vir provinsiale departemente en plaaslike regerings om aan te pas. Ons benodig kontinuïteit en gesamentlike beplanning binne die drie sfere van regering.

Minister Tina Joemat-Pettersson, dankie dat u altyd bereid is om te luister en te help.


The ostrich industry is still not able to export after the devastating avian influenza epidemic that struck 15 months ago. I want to thank the Minister for her assistance and for the R50 million she made available for compensation payouts. More than 40 000 ostriches had to be culled and farmers were compensated.

This money and effort will, however, be wasted if we cannot get our export markets open again. More than 20 000 job opportunities will be lost if we cannot export ostrich products. What is needed now is the political will to cross this final hurdle. We need to engage the EU on this matter. Our officials should make an effort to resolve the final issues preventing exports from leaving South Africa.


Minister, as die regering moet ons spesifiek vir hierdie bedryf klippe uit die pad probeer rol. Ons moet versigtig wees dat ons nie die hekkies al hoër en hoër maak nie.


Foot-and-mouth disease is still preventing red-meat exports from South Africa. This issue must be resolved with urgency and the department must take steps to maintain the systems specifically designed to prevent this disease.

We should also be concerned about the long-term sustainability of the agricultural sector in South Africa. Without research, we will lose ground until we are not able to adapt to a changing environment. We need new cultivars that are drought and disease resistant. We need new farming techniques that will allow us to provide more crops with less input costs. We need new technology to assist us with water management.

Agriculture has a huge responsibility with regard to the empowerment of our previously disadvantaged communities. Many different models of assistance have been tried, with results varying from dismal to very successful. We need better co-ordination between the efforts of rural development and land reform on the one hand and agriculture on the other hand.

The Western Cape is pioneering an approach to land reform that makes the private sector an integral partner. With our commodity approach, government is partnering with various commodity organisations to create teams of expertise that identify and support empowerment projects.

I want to assure the Ministers of the Western Cape's support regarding their respective national performance outcomes. The Western Cape will not let you down, and we will work together with you in order to improve the opportunities offered to our people.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 53


Ms C BEERWINKEL: Hon Chairperson, respective Ministers and Deputy Ministers, MECs from different provinces, chairpersons of select committees, hon members of the NCOP, guests and colleagues, it is an honour for me to be part of this debate today. I would like to thank each and every Minister who has made allocations to the Western Cape. Ministers, we pledge to vigorously monitor the implementation of your separate allocations to the Western Cape. As dedicated ANC members, we will hold to account all those responsible for correct implementation.

My input will basically be generic because I had late notification of the fact that I would be the only speaker on all these Budget Votes today.

Allow me to quote something that was said by the first lady of America but is equally fitting to this country today: "All of us are driven by the belief that this country as it is just won't do – that we have an obligation to fight for the world as it should be." As I listened to the Ministers today, it is clear that the plight and upliftment of the poor is paramount to their vision and objectives. I would like to make my input as it relates to two spheres that are very different but necessary for the success of all your initiatives. The two spheres are the Western Cape province and its 30 municipalities and then the rural areas specifically.

Our role as the ANC in the Western Cape is that of the opposition. As such, we are able to hold the ruling DA to account for service delivery. From the oversight tours undertaken in the rural areas, it is evident that the majority of the poor youth remains disadvantaged. The rural poor have not yet reaped the benefits of their freedom. Not all of them have access to economic opportunities, proper education, health services or clean water. We have also discovered that the DA's policy of an open-opportunity society is everything but open.

The reality is that, nationally, our government is committed to the five priorities of the ANC, but the results where they are implemented and experienced are very different. You might wonder why most of my input today will focus on the implementation arm, which is at local government level. I believe that all of these Ministers' plans, visions and objectives for the better life that we promised all will come to nought if local government did not function effectively and officials were not competent.

Planning needs to be integrated, both horizontally and vertically, in every form. Local government is the coalface for the recipients of the plans, initiatives and all the allocations made by different Ministers today; the place where poverty is felt and is very visible; the place where change is made and to which most of the Ministers' budgets filter down.

On 31 May, all the municipalities were supposed to have handed in their completed Integrated Development Plans and final budgets. These are documents that reflect the needs and hopes of communities. While most of the municipalities generate their income from rates and services rendered, the provinces are dependant on equitable share allocations and conditional grants.

How, then, does the budgetary process at national level influence all of this? Even the President singled out the Western Cape because of learner drop-out rates in rural areas. The root cause of that is far-reaching. I therefore want to implore our Ministers here today, to play a stronger monitoring role over their allocations to the Western Cape. This is probably the one province with the starkest examples of how the rich get richer and become the best while the poor stay poor. [Interjections.]

Of the 25 municipalities, only 17 have designated areas and assistance offices for the growth of small, medium and micro enterprises. As members of the legislature, our oversight role over the sustainable and equitable distribution of service delivery and performance management is crucial. It should ensure that budgets are allocated to places where the needs are greatest and that officials and leaders are held accountable.

Ward committees - statutory bodies which the City of Cape Town initially resisted to implement but are now implementing - bring together the different sectors in the committee and share the information with civil society. Community development workers are the eyes and ears of all spheres of government. However, civil society organisations, separate from ward committees, play an equally crucial role and they are an invaluable source of information. Their input should also be incorporated into plans. However, municipalities are very slow in the implementation of these ideas. Ironically, today MEC Bredell is handing out booklets relating to this very issue. [Interjections.] So, it is very clear that public participation is a crucial form of information sharing of all your great plans. However, the DA struggles to implement the principles of Batho Pele in a meaningful and practical manner. [Interjections.]

We need competent, committed and passionate officials in municipalities and provinces to run these programmes. We also need dedicated oversight public representatives to oversee the implementation of programmes. Because this is all about fiscal management, municipalities are encouraged to have municipal public accounts committees in place. Only eight of the 30 municipalities in the Western Cape have done so, even though this is a directive from the national government.

Many excuses have been raised for this reluctance. However, oversight over financial discipline and accountability is imperative if we are serious about changing the lives of those very poor people for whom these Ministers have pledged so much today. [Interjections.] The Auditor-General reports that of the 30 municipalities in the Western Cape, only two have received clean audits. [Interjections.] Hon member, I come from the Western Cape. Most of them boast about unqualified reports but they omit to mention findings on predetermined objectives and findings on compliance with applicable laws and regulations. [Interjections.] This is where irregular expenditure and violations of supply-chain processes take place. These irregularities impact on service delivery to those who need it most. [Interjections.]

In the Western Cape, every child who still walks to school barefoot, for kilometres on end, because learner transport is not provided; for every young person who is still disenfranchised and lost in poverty; every person, old or young, who still has to get up early in the morning to fetch water because this basic service is not provided; every person who joins a queue at a clinic or hospital; every person who cannot visit a loved one at the hospital because transport from rural areas to the hospital is just unaffordable; every person who dreams of the day when they can live in a decent dwelling on the farm where they work, with potable water and proper sanitation; every farmworker whose rights are violated by violence and abusive treatment; every person in the rural areas who dreams of owning a piece of land from which to earn a living, grow food, graze livestock or build a home; every citizen of the Western Cape who suffers most when the environment is under pressure while trying to find a decent job to put food on the table; every woman who cannot reach her full potential because of abuse, a lack of education or access to opportunities due to discrimination - the ANC in the Western Cape assures you that it will play the role of oversight in the monitoring and implementation of all its shared ideals. It is therefore my honour to support all the Budget Votes and allocations presented by the hon Ministers today. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 54


Mr M JONAS (Eastern Cape): Hon Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of the portfolio committees, chairpersons and chief executive officers of public entities, directors-general and officials, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen and fellow MECs, may I start off by saying that going through the four Budget Votes one cannot but marvel at the progress we're making in ensuring that there is greater alignment and integration of our work. It is very clear, just by glancing through all the Budget Votes presented, that the country is surely and steadily working towards a consolidated national agenda. It is indeed something to be appreciated and it is concretely reflected in the programmes that the three Ministers have in all the provinces.

In the Eastern Cape we must be upfront in appreciating the growing capital investment by all national departments, in particular the three departments here today, in our water infrastructure, in various agricultural infrastructures, in our roads infrastructure, with a bridge in KSD, and a whole range of other investments that are being made by these three departments. We truly appreciate this and I think it augurs well for the future of our country.

I will confine my comments to the environment Budget Vote. In his critically acclaimed work, the prize-winning author Jared Diamond aptly illustrates how societies fail when they mismanage ecosystems. In contrast to conventional wisdom, Diamond correctly argues that societies do not collapse because of some kind of cataclysmic event, but rather due to the faulty decisions regarding their relationships to climate, geography and resources. In short, societies fail, in Diamond's view, when they mismanage the prosaic elements of the earth's ecosystem: soil, trees and water.

As a young, emerging democracy and a continuously evolving society, we, like the ancient societies whose collapse is detailed in the works of Diamond, are faced with similar, if not identical choices about our development trajectory. But unlike those societies, we have the advantage of historical precedent, new technologies, innovations and the benefit of hindsight.

The question is whether we have learnt from the mistakes made by others and whether we will make decisions that will have long-term positive impacts or whether we will make expedient short-term decisions that will negatively impact on our long-term sustainability.

These questions are especially relevant when considering and balancing the high levels of biodiversity and associated natural resources in the country, and in particular in the Eastern Cape, with an ever-increasing demand for service delivery and economic development. In short, the decisions we make as a society and country regarding the use of biodiversity and other associated natural resources for sustainability will determine our ultimate survival as a country.

In reviewing the strategic and policy imperatives articulated by the hon Minister in her budget statement, it is clear that as a society we have taken the correct decision to use biodiversity and natural resources to advance sustainable economic and social development. We commend the hon Minister on the programme and the progressive position that she has articulated in this regard.

We concur with the position that the far-reaching impacts of climate change will be experienced by everyone in the foreseeable future and will directly and indirectly impact on the lives of every person, organisation and institution across the spectrum of the economy, social behaviour, infrastructure and other aspects of human existence. Recognising this, the province of the Eastern Cape adopted an Eastern Cape climate change response strategy in January 2010.

This strategy forms the basis of a shared understanding and response to the impact of climate change in the Eastern Cape. It details the required intervention that will mitigate, manage and ensure resilience to the challenges presented by climate change in our lifetime and that of generations to come. We've also ensured that in doing that, we make green economy a central pillar of our rural, industrial and economic development in general, as well as of all associated interventions by government.

In this regard, the clustering and development of hubs of innovation and economic growth within the province became one of the central pillars of our activities. We also tried to focus on and direct our attention to payment for ecological services and greener transport. At the core of our response is unlocking the full potential of renewable energy.

In this regard we also went further to adopt the sustainable energy strategy, which in itself attempts to assert a more sustainable approach to renewable energy in the province. In support of climate change an action support programme was developed with 11 flexiprojects. These projects include, among others, the eMonti Green Hub, which is situated in the Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality and represents a flexiproject in the waste management category.

This award-winning project is a one-stop concept for the conversion of waste water, sewerage sludge and organic solid waste into biogas. In addition to creating responsible forms of waste management, the facility will create heat and power for use by local industry. It is estimated that the project will result in a reduction of 20 000 tons of carbon per annum, while creating 70 direct and 400 indirect jobs.

In the Chris Hani District, the individual municipalities will work with the district municipality to look at developing the sustainable use of energy in schools. I must say the project itself is very successful, but is also enhancing an awareness among our youth and students of the importance of managing our resources well. There is a whole range of other projects in this regard.

The points we want to make is that as a province we want to encourage the Minister to continue to work with us in ensuring that we put the province on a more sustainable developmental path and therefore we support all the Votes presented here today.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 55

Mr M JONAS (Eastern Cape)

Mr A BREDELL (Western Cape): Hon Chairperson, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, mayors, MECs of government, and hon guests, I thank you for this opportunity. I don't think this is a political debate today but allow me to just mention two things. Firstly, I think the hon Beerwinkel is a bit confused: the local government debate will be happening later today. [Interjections.] Secondly, what the hon Beerwinkel forgot to mention was that the DA in the Western Cape is busy sorting out the mess that the divided ANC in the Western Cape left us with - and that is the truth. [Interjections.]

However, this is not a political debate. I have colleagues from the national level and Ministers with whom I have a very good working relationship and I don't want to turn this into a political debate. I think we need to mention and focus on what is happening at grassroots level.

It has been said that co-operation dates as far back as when human beings first started organising for mutual benefit. As a people elect, we serve communities with diverse socioeconomic needs and this serves as the very reason inspiring us to be better together.

Our developing context requires that our service delivery efforts should have the type of impact that improves the lives of these communities. The ability to have this impact requires us to work hand in hand, not only with our communities but, more importantly, with all three spheres of government. In as much as we have an oversight responsibility as a provincial government, my department is especially passionate about capacity building.

Our communities are becoming more and more aware of their environmental rights and how to work together with the department to protect the natural environment of the Western Cape. Extensive work has also been done by Cape Nature, which, during the previous financial period, undertook 133 law-enforcement actions to combat the loss of biodiversity. Significant progress is being achieved with the registering of new environmental management inspectors, which will increase our capacity to combat environmental crime in our province.

Regarding water management, the department has prioritised the rehabilitation of rivers and estuaries to address pollution in key, economically important rivers in the Western Cape. It is the intention of my team to work closely with the Berg River Task Team, led by the national Department of Water and Environmental Affairs, joined by the department of local government and Cape Nature. We will also be working closely with the National Estuary Monitoring programme and National River Health programme to develop monitoring protocols during this financial period in order to monitor water quality in those rivers and estuaries. My department has also developed an action plan to implement the provincial programmes of action on reducing land-based pollution to the marine environment.

On biodiversity, Cape Nature launched and opened their flagship tourism offering, Oudebosch at the Kogelberg Nature Reserve in February 2012. Oudebosch has set a new benchmark in sustainable development and has already received international recognition by being awarded the prestigious Holcim Award for sustainable construction.

On climate change, during the 2009-10 financial year, I approved the White Paper on Sustainable Energy for the Western Cape. The aim of this framework is to serve as an effective and practical tool to mitigate the effects of climate change and promote the eradication of energy poverty. A draft Sustainable Energy Bill was born from the White Paper and this provides a sustainable energy framework for the province to promote sustainable energy practices. It is the intention of my department to promote and support the four local municipalities in the development of sustainable energy plans during the new financial year.

In addition to advancing renewable energies as an alternative and sustainable source of energy and encouraging improvements in energy efficiency, my department will provide support to four municipalities in the new financial year to develop climate change adaptation plans. During the new financial year, we will also review the Western Cape's policies and strategies to ensure alignment with the national White Paper on Climate Change.

The department has been undertaking a strategic environmental assessment of sites suitable for wind energy developments in the Western Cape. The aim of the assessment is to provide transparency to and consistency in environmental impact assessment criteria and decision-making. Critical biodiversity area maps are to replace the previous biodiversity layers to account for ecological processes and climate change resilience.

Regarding the built environment, the department will facilitate the approval of the Land Use Planning Act during the new financial year. A draft Bill was finalised after lengthy consultation with Western Cape municipalities and province-wide public workshops, involving all key stakeholders, have commenced. This legislative framework will consolidate existing planning legislation and ensure improved alignment with planning and other development legislation.

One of the primary objectives of the Land Use Planning Act is to clarify the division of powers between the different spheres of government, as provided for in our Constitution, in terms of land-use decision making.

An integrated review of the Provincial Spatial Development Framework will be finalised in the new financial year. This will provide an indication to investors of areas where the Western Cape government wants to promote and facilitate economic growth and where we consider the best development opportunities to be.

On pollution and waste management, during the 2010-11 financial year, the department monitored ambient air quality at six locations. Monitoring was increased during the 2011-12 period to seven sites and an additional nine sites were added during the new financial year.

The Western Cape Provincial Integrated Waste Management Plan was developed to ensure that the legislative waste licensing function

is administered by my department. We intended to implement the Green Procurement Policy to minimise the environmental impact of government operations by changing the focus of procurement conditions in areas such as paper and stationery, lighting equipment, office electrical equipment and so forth.

Regarding impact management, the following targets have been identified for the new financial year: the finalising of 800 EIA applications; the finalising of 90% of EIA applications within legislated timeframes; and the finalising of 1 300 planning applications.

Regarding reaching out to the communities, hon Ministers, my department is aligned nationally. My department understands its responsibility of oversight and the empowerment of our local spheres of government. We are faced with challenges but we are very aware of the needs of our communities, who need us to protect the state of their natural environment.

We understand stakeholder relationships as an approach to improving service delivery imperatives - PS07 has allowed us to forge significant strategic relations and to abolish the mentality of working in silos. I am acutely aware that what we do today will change tomorrow. This can only be done when we work hand in hand - better together.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 56

Mr A BREDELL (Western Cape)

Mr D A WORTH: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon MECs present, hon members and guests, for the historians today, 6 June, is D-Day. For me, it is "D-Day" because I have four departments and one speech!

Firstly, I would like to thank the various departments for their presentations to our committee. For 2012-13, Budget Vote 38 for the Department of Water Affairs amounts to R8,812 billion, which indicates a minus-2,7% inflation-adjusted cumulative growth rate. Budget Vote 30 for the Department of Environmental Affairs, with a smaller budget of R4,512 billion, fares slightly better, with a 10,9% inflation-adjusted cumulative growth rate.

The Department of Mineral Affairs, together with the Department of Environmental and Water Affairs, are developing a one-stop shop, as they call it - not a spaza shop - with a view to streamlining the regulatory process. This system aims to authorise mining rights and water permits while ensuring that biodiversity resources and life-supporting ecological processes are not compromised. Hopefully, this will at long last speed up and co-ordinate the entire process.

I wish to congratulate the Department of Environmental Affairs on the arrival of the new sophisticated polar supply ship, the Agulhas II, or Miriam Makeba. However, the Africana's crucial research voyage has been delayed by various problems - and what of the other fleet of fisheries ships that remain idle in Simon's Town. We can only hope that when naval crews eventually operate the ships, the machinery and electronic equipment will still be in good condition.

If abalone pouching continues at the current rate, within 10 years from now there will be so few left that it won't be worth the while of poachers to steal the shellfish. This is the view of University of Cape Town mathematician Mr Doug Butterworth, my namesake, who does the calculations for the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries on how many fish and shellfish can be fished commercially each year at a rate that would ensure that marine resources were not being damaged. One of the criticisms levelled at the department was that there were no incentives for the staff to stop poachers because Fisheries earns millions of rands each year from confiscated illegal abalone.

In his 2012 state of the nation address, the President recently announced the details of the R69 billion spending on water infrastructure. The details, which we have heard the Ministers alluding to, are two mega, five large and 64 small infrastructure projects. The mega projects include the Oliphants River resources development project, in which R3,1 billion will eventually be spent on developing the De Hoop Dam, which is progressing quite rapidly; and R13,1 billion on water distribution systems linked to the project.

An amount of R2,9 billion was allocated to dam safety rehabilitation, in which the structural operational safety of 315 dams will be assessed. The large infrastructure projects include the raising of the Clanwilliam Dam's wall, which will net the country an additional 10 million cubic meters of water a year. The Tzaneen and Namitwa dams on the Great Letaba River are all having their walls raised, and the Nandoni Dam and distribution network in Limpopo will cost some R2 billion. There is also a Mokolo-Crocodile Water Augmentation Project, which will deliver water to Eskom's Medupi power stations and other industries.

The 2012 annual Blue Drop Report shows that an impressive 153 municipalities and 931 water systems were audited. The national Blue Drop score rose from 72,9% in 2011-12 to 87,6% in 2012-13. However, during the NCOP's Provincial Week, provincial delegates visited various municipalities. There was concern about water provision and waste water treatment at local government level. A lack of skills and capacity, a shortage of revenue and the misuse of grant funding have all contributed to the failing infrastructure.

In the Free State province alone, some 9 million kiloliters of water was lost by municipalities each month. The Mangaung Metro lost an average of 2 593 529 kilolitres of cleaned water per month in 2010. This implies that the metro is paying R25 million per month, or R855 000 per day, for water lost due to unrepaired leakages, illegal connections or poor maintenance.

Water provision is, of course, a core function of municipal government, but the water boards are owed millions by municipalities and it is high time that Water Affairs did something and spoke to Co-operative Governance to stop this wastage of water.

Professor Antony Turton from the Free State University's Centre for Environmental Management stated that South Africa had a total water capacity of 38 billion cubic meters. By 2025 South Africa would need 65 billion cubic meters if we were to grow our economy. Almost one-third of our water capacity is not fit for purpose because of algae and contamination. The department must deal with the problem of recycling water, to remove nitrates and phosphates from poor water so that it can meet its requirement going forward.

The budget for 2012-13 for the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Budget Vote 26, amounts to some R5,8 billion, which is 0,6% of the total appropriation of the national Budget. The department did not achieve some of its deliverables nor did it meet its measurable objectives set out in the Strategic Annual Performance Plan for 2011-12. Some of the challenges of the department have been highlighted by the Auditor-General in previous reports. These included the lack of or poor oversight of financial performance management, internal auditing and risk assessment.

The department's plans for the medium-term are guided by the National Growth Plan, the Industrial Policy Action Plan 2, the 12 government priority outcomes, the Comprehensive Rural Development programme and the Integrated Growth and Development Plan. The department plans to put more focus on employment creation, which the DA welcomes, the development of smallholder producers, the Zero Hunger programme, which I will refer to later, and the promotion of economic growth in rural areas.

The department is also funding small infrastructure projects, such as the R76 million for fences along South Africa's border with Zimbabwe and Mozambique to manage the spread of foot-and-mouth disease; R24,9 million to drill and fit boreholes for agricultural purposes in rural communities; and R22 million for the Lesotho border fence - hooray! - among other items.

The Zero Hunger programme is designed to reduce incidences of food insecurity through access for all South Africans to nutritious food. The establishment of 2 700 household gardens, at a cost of R5 000 each, is planned.

The Department of Rural Development and Land Reform will be the co-ordinating department, working in conjunction with departments such as Agriculture, with CASP, and others. It is intended that these subsistence and smallholder producers will sell their produce to government institutions such as schools, hospitals, correctional services, Defence, etc. The concern is the department's ability to deliver on the minimum requirements needed for the programme to succeed in the rural areas of South Africa. As observed during oversight visits, not even the most basic agricultural extension programme was in existence in some district municipalities - let alone water, which must be carried over long distances from water sources.

The budget for the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform for the 2012-13 financial year, Budget Vote 33, is approximately R8,8 billion. The bulk of the funding - R6,2 billion - is for land reform and restitution programmes. This department was created in 2009 to enable the country to have a Ministry dedicated to the social and economic development of rural South Africa. Central to rural development is the Comprehensive Rural Development Plan, which is based on agrarian transformation, rural development and land reform.

The Land Restitution programme provides redress to persons in communities dispossessed of their rights and land as a result of past discriminatory laws and practices. There are some 8 770 claims still to be finalised, of which the department hopes to settle 133 this year. The department has admitted that insufficient attention was given to ensuring that land restored to beneficiaries was developed in a sustainable manner.

South Africa had to import 40% more food for the past five years. Since the deregulation of the domestic markets in 1996, the decreased domestic production of dairy, wheat and poultry products has been a trend. Wheat, chicken, beef and even potatoes are being imported in large quantities.

In addition, global warming, leading to extreme climate conditions, and water scarcity are serious threats in the near future. Farmers also have high input costs due to increases in the price of fuel, fertiliser, labour and machinery. The department must ensure that farms are productive and that money spent on recapitalisation is effectively used.

The biofuel industry, as the report on food security confirms, and I quote: "... must be carefully managed so that a 2% contribution to the national liquid fuel supply can be achieved without jeopardising food security".

With our population expected to grow to 51,5 million by 2014 and 58 million by 2020, food need will exceed the ability of our resource limits if investments on research and technology development is not prioritised.

Employment in agriculture has been declining since the 1970s, largely due to mechanisation, tax concessions and interest rates in the past. Inadequate post-settlement support and the lack of suitable markets means that few land reform beneficiaries are progressing ... [Time expired.]. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 57


Mr O DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, members and guests, I would like to thank the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs, Ms Edna Molewa, for her intervention at the Clanwilliam Dam. I would also like to urge the Minister to prioritise the Camdeboo Municipality.

Cope is deeply concerned about the warnings issued by the Auditor-General about the Chapter 9 institutions. He first warns of the institutions' independency, which is vulnerable and under suppression. The Auditor-General's role of auditing and reporting financial mismanagement is under pressure. Leadership, on the other hand, is struggling to control the dire situation. Problems are accumulating while remedies provided by the Auditor-General are being ignored. Supply chain management is under siege. Service delivery and government information is deteriorating. There is also a lack of accountability in all spheres of government.

In 2008-09, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries incurred R15 million in irregular expenditure. The department was also found not to be in compliance with the country's legislation by not having a risk management strategy to combat fraud. The Auditor-General has also found that the information provided by the department for auditing purposes was not useful and reliable.

The Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries is one of those departments that the Auditor-General has warned South Africans about. Minister Tina Joemat-Pettersson is one of the leaders who cannot control noncompliance with the country's laws and regulations. The Minister is also undermining the oversight role of the NCOP over her own department. [Interjections.] If I remember correctly, there was only one appearance by the Minister before the select committee in the last three years in her capacity as the executive. Now that is the undermining of the process of oversight - what an embarrassment!

The administration, under Minister Tina Joemat-Pettersson's leadership, is also under scrutiny as a result of ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order, hon members!

Mr O DE BEER: ... various irregularities, including the awarding of tenders. The R800 million tender that was awarded to Sekunjalo and then later revoked, after the department had consulted the Attorney-General, shows another glaring lack in the quality of leadership. [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order, hon members!

Mr O DE BEER: Why did the department award a tender to the consortium, knowing that it did not meet the tender requirements and then revoked it at a later stage? The Minister has also showed that her department is not ready for transformation.

This morning, the Minister stood before this House and said that the department reviewed some of its policies. One of these was the allocation of fishing rights. She mentioned that the rights were going to be allocated to communities. The Minister is taking us back by 10 years. We come from a model where the rights were allocated to the communities. [Interjections.] They were then called "community trusts". According to those community trusts, if you were not a member of a certain family ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order, hon members!

Mr O DE BEER: ... you would not benefit from those rights. We do not want to substitute black economic empowerment with the Pettersson EEEs or with your ZEEEs. [Interjections.]

A number of households are experiencing the crisis of chronic food insecurity. [Interjections.]

Mr D B FELDMAN: [Inaudible.] [Laughter.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Hon member, that is not a point of order. [Interjections.] Order, order! Hon member, you are out of order. Continue, Mr De Beer.

Mr O DE BEER: I hope my time is protected, Chairperson. The number of people who are vulnerable to food insecurity is increasing. Employment is also declining in the commercial farming sector, aggravating an already difficult situation in the rural areas. Rural communities and poor families have little to celebrate, in spite of the fact, Minister, that food could be sold in markets that could be constructed for such purposes in their own neighbourhoods. The Indian market gardeners of half a century ago, in Durban, had evolved a very successful model, which needs to be revived.

The Ilima/Letsema campaign was launched in 2008 to increase food production. This War on Poverty campaign has been allocated an amount of R221 million. This project was not successful because there were more than 50 farms that needed to be rehabilitated to increase production and improve livelihoods. The Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries has still to distribute 235 tractors in seven provinces to elevate agricultural activities. [Time expired.] [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 58


Mrs N W MAGADLA: Chairperson, Ministers present, hon Depuity Ministers, MECs present, hon members, distinguished guest, Chairperson, on a point of correction, Minister Molewa is Mrs and not Mr - this is directed to the former ANC mayor who was here recently. [Applause.]

The resolution of the 52nd national conference of the ANC on agrarian change, land reform and rural development confirmed the ANC's acute awareness and sensitivity to the centrality of land as a fundamental element in the resolution of the race, gender and class contractions in South Africa.

National sovereignty is defined in terms of land. Even without it being enshrined in the country's supreme law, the Constitution, land is a national asset. This is where the debate about agrarian change, land reform and rural development should appropriately begin. Without this fundamental assumption, talk of land reform and food security can become insignificant.

The ANC-led government's vision for land reform has the following as its pillars: a properly reconfigured, single and coherent four-tier system of land tenure, which ensures that all South Africans - blacks in general, and Africans in particular - have reasonable access to land, with secure rights, in order to fulfil their basic needs for housing and productive livelihoods; clearly defined property rights sustained by a fair, equitable and accountable land administration system within an effective judicial and governance system; effective land-use planning and regulatory systems, which promote optimal land utilisation in all areas and sectors; and effectively administered rural and urban lands and sustainable rural production systems.

The principles that underpin land reform are the following: democratic and equitable land allocation and use across race, gender and class; and sustained production discipline for food security.

The long term goal of land reform is social cohesion and development. The goal of the recapitalisation development programme is to ensure that those land reform farms are completely productive. This programme focuses on all land-reform farms acquired through state funds since 1994, as well as smallholder farms that had been privately acquired. However, the new ones had no means of keeping them productive.


Nawo amafama ayabetheka kukonyuka kwamaxabiso qho. Sicela isebe ukuba liwaxhase ngokupheleleyo amafama ngezimali ukuze umsebenzi wawo wobufama ubelula kwaye ube neziqhamo zokulwa indlala nokunqongophala kwemisebenzi.


The strategy underlining this programme is partnership with commercial farmers on a risk-sharing basis. A single land tenure framework has been fashioned out, integrating the current multiple forms of land ownership - communal, state, public and private - into a single, four-tier tenure system, which includes the following: state and public land, privately owned land, land owned by foreigners, and communally owned land.

In pursuit of agrarian transformation, the link between the land question and agriculture is acknowledged as the basis of the search for an economic rationale and a vision of a post-reform agrarian structure.

For the land reform programme to proceed rapidly and succeed, a number of challenges have to be confronted and overcome. Those are: entrenched vested interests in both commercial and communal land spaces; the capacity of organs of state to implement; poor co-ordination and integration of efforts and resources among public institutions and between public-sector and private-sector institutions.

These three elements constitute a complex risk factor for any effective, equitable and speedy resolution of the land question. It will require time and an enduring collective and national political effort to overcome them. Co-ordination and integration across all relevant organs of state and civil society is key to the successful execution of a sustainable land reform programme. For us to be able to advance, defend and deepen our democratic gains, we must work hard as a country, placing at the centre of our developmental agenda the aspirations of our people, particularly those from the rural areas. This will assist in combating the triple challenge of poverty, inequality and unemployment, as President Jacob Zuma said during the state of the nation address in February this year. We support all three Budget Votes. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 59


Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Chair, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, colleagues, ladies and gentlemen, I am not on the hon De Beer's programme today. [Interjections.] Let me just congratulate the Ministers, Deputy Ministers and these departments for trying to do their best under trying circumstances. Indeed, agriculture, water, rural development and land restitution are part of a holistic plan to create sustainable jobs and better the lives of our people.


Minister van Landbou, Bosbou en Visserye, ons verwelkom die R300 miljoen droogtehulp per jaar vir die volgende drie jaar vir die Noord-Kaap. Ons hoop en vertrou die provisiale departement sal hierdie geleentheid aangryp om in die toekoms spoedig te reageer om ons mense te help, veral dié mense wat in die droogte die geld so nodig het.


Let me also ask the Minister of Water Affairs about the dam near Vioolsdrift in the Namaqua region. The feasibility studies have been done. Will the dam still be built, seeing that the water travels 600km from the last dam to flow into the sea? It is a lot of water that goes into the dam. I hope the Minister can give us an answer on that, in terms of the National Planning Commission's analysis regarding the supply of water in the future for that region. If we can get a dam there, it would help a lot of people in agriculture. It would also create jobs there.

Minister, we know the previous government did not really care for our people and the burden is upon this government to provide and take care of our people, especially those who stay in the deep rural villages. They did not care. We must be honest with ourselves. You can only learn if you are honest with yourself. You can only have a future if you recognise the past. Only then can you move on. [Interjections.]

We must have a look at the previous budgets. How did they spend the money? How was it possible that the previous government did not see that we would need a dam in the future? [Interjections.] How is it possible? There was a lack vision. They did not see. If you can't see, you can't lead. [Interjections.]

Rural development and land restitution is one of the priorities of this government. This department is facing an enormous challenge. It is not easy because they must budget and Treasury is not giving them enough money to do what the Freedom Charter says. [Interjections.] The Freedom Charter says that the land shall be shared among those who work it, and all the land must be redivided among those who work it to banish famine and land hunger. The state shall help the peasants with implements, seed, tractors and dams to save the soil and assist the tillers. This department needs a lot of money and skills to assist our people to regain their dignity and to help them overcome the scourge of apartheid. I believe Treasury must give them more money. [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order! Order!

Mr J J GUNDA: Let me conclude. This government does not need to apologise when it is doing service delivery for our people. It is one of the rights of our people. Everybody in South Africa has a right to live and have a better life.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 59


Mr N MOKOENA: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers in our midst, hon members of the House, my colleagues from other provinces, the director-generals in our midst, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, it is once again a distinct honour and privilege to address this august Chamber. The legacy of the global financial crisis is still evident today and one of the key lessons we can draw from this experience is that running economies the way we have always been doing, doing business as usual and leaving the markets on their own is clearly not an option.

In the 2009 framework response to the international economic crisis, the South African government urged for the development of incentives for investment in programmes geared at creating a large number of green jobs. In 2011 we held the Conference of Parties on our shores. Thanks to the South African government and leadership provided by women Ministers, Ministers Molewa and Nkoana-Mashamaite, we had a successful Conference of the Parties, which raised, among other issues, the issue of the green economy. To that end it concluded that the UN should establish the green economy fund.

The green economy is therefore a strategic intervention for an alternative and sustainable way of doing business. A green economy should be driven by the state and private sector investment to reduce carbon emissions and pollution, enhance energy and resource efficiency, and prevent the loss of biodiversity and ecosystem services.

Accordingly, a green economy offers major growth opportunities, as well as environmental and social benefits, including the creation of new green jobs, and is vital to solving common global challenges such as combating climate change and promoting sustainable development.

A green economy must be about sustainable energy, green jobs, low-carbon economies, green policies, green buildings, agriculture, fisheries, forestry, industry in general, energy efficiency, sustainable tourism, sustainable transport, waste management, water efficiency and all other resource efficiencies.

To give meaning to it for the ordinary man in the street, the green economy should be about three fundamental principles, namely a culture that balances consumption and sustainability, energy efficiency and alternate sources of energy, and cleaner technologies that seek to lower carbon emissions.

As a province it is our considered view that natural resources are national economic assets. The economy of Mpumalanga depends largely on energy and mineral resources, biodiversity, agriculture, forestry and ecotourism. Functioning ecosystems underpin all our economic and social activity. Ecosystem failure will therefore seriously compromise our ability to address social and economic priorities, even in the short term.

As a province, we are exploring a number of green economy initiatives aimed at lowering our carbon footprint, thus mitigating climate change while creating jobs at the same time. Those include, among others, investigations into the following opportunities: the production of products using the fly ash from our power stations, alternative energy from biomass and the production of biofuel, the manufacture of photovoltaic cells, and the implementation of the waste management hierarchy.

An initiative that we are watching with interest is the current tests being run by Anglo Coal on new technology using fuel cells for powering its locomotives. The success of this initiative will have far-reaching, positive consequences for both the environment and the creation of jobs. We note that the transition from carbon-intensive industrial development towards a low-carbon economy is one of the key aspects of the successful roll-out of the provincial growth path.

The other important pillar of our growth path is agriculture and agroprocessing. We have launched the second pillar using our Comprehensive Rural Development Programme, aimed at, among others, food security; enhancing skills development and enterprise opportunities; and, more importantly, using the CRDP to revive rural economies and connecting the first economy to the second economy. During the last financial year, in our seven CRDP sites alone, which are our worst performing municipalities, we created 13 000 jobs.

Empowerment processes around environmental and developmental issues and challenges have been recognised as crucial in working towards sustainable development locally, regionally and globally. Environmental empowerment is a process that enables individuals and communities to engage with the daily and immediate issues and risks that confront the total environment. Climate change is therefore arguably the greatest challenge to more than just modern human civilisation, with large impacts on the socioeconomic, environmental, mining and development-related sectors, including water, resources, agriculture and food security, human health, ecosystems and biodiversity.

Taking the aforesaid information into account, it is evident that environmental empowerment and environmental capacity-building on climate change is vital in achieving Output 2 of government's Outcome 10, namely the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, climate change impacts and improved air and atmospheric quality.

As a province, we continue to implement the environmental impact assessment regulations while promoting the necessity of including the value of environmental goods and services in sustainable development. We therefore welcome the envisaged national mining and biodiversity guidelines due to be launched by both the Minister of Mineral Resources and the Minister of Environmental and Water Affairs later this year.

Recently, we have seen sporadic protests, mostly because of access to reliable supplies of quality water and electricity in the province. The province has since taken an interest in understanding how the problem manifests itself in the province. As we shared with the NCOP and the Minister on a visit to the province, in some areas water is in abundance, but it does not reach the people because of losses due to ageing and inadequate infrastructure. We have also seen the low levels of our water's Blue and Green Drop status in the province. This area is receiving our attention and, as a province, we will strengthen the work the municipalities are doing.

For this reason the province has also decided to come to the party with regard to water challenges. Going forward, we will coinvest in the bulk supply and storage infrastructure in municipalities, and allow the municipalities to address reticulation challenges through their own infrastructure budget and Municipal Infrastructure Grant budget.

We also want to welcome the effort of the national local government delivery forum and, in particular, the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs for her commendable support. We can count on the contribution going to the Emalahleni water quality improvement programme; the millions to be spent on the Bushbuckridge bulk water lines; the Victor Khanye Rand Water Pipeline project; and, lately, the Carolina water quality problems.

As a province, we are also hard hit by the scourge of rhino poaching. Working with other law enforcement agencies and a wide range of stakeholders, including local communities, we are certain that this area of our work requires more support going forward. The Minister's initiatives in this regard are spot on and must be strengthened.

The sustainability of future growth and development will rely profoundly on innovation, an improved economy, energy and natural resource efficiency, better fiscal policies that provide incentives for sustainability, the valuation of ecosystem services, equitable access, an inclusive economy and the capacity to create sufficient decent work.

As I conclude, let me take this opportunity to thank all the Ministers and their deputies for the sterling work, leadership and support given to our province. As a province, we support all the Budget Vote speeches presented by the Ministers today. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 60


Mr G G MOKGORO: Chair, I honour the three Ministers, Minister Tina Joemat-Pettersson, Minister Nkwinti and Minister Molewa, and the Deputy Ministers accompanying you and your officials, as well as all hon members of the House.

As I start my contribution to the debate on the Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Budget Vote, I wish to share a quote by Martin Luther King, Jr:

Why should there be hunger and deprivation in any land, in any city, at any table, when man has the resources and the scientific know-how to provide all mankind with the basic necessities of life? There is no deficit in human resources. The deficit is in human will.

These are indeed wise words and they should continue to inspire us as we move forward to build a better life for our people. These words also speak directly to our policy document on agriculture, which seeks to reinvest and increase public funding in agriculture> It also seeks to ensure the political will to implement the Comprehensive Africa Agricultural Development Programme – the Maputo Declaration. This declaration suggests that at least 10% of a country's budget should be invested in agriculture by 2008 and that the annual growth of the agricultural sector should be at least 6%. The programme proposes, inter alia, bold pro-poor policies that seek to address inequalities in land ownership and access, including a bias based on youth and gender, as well as agriculture-based rural development; investment in human capital and a skilled workforce, not just in terms of numbers and paper qualifications but in in-service training to ensure relevant skills acquisition and capacity-building for both departmental personnel, extension officers, researchers and farmers.

The ANC's 52nd national conference in Polokwane resolved, inter alia, that, firstly, the current structure of commercial agriculture was the outcome of centuries of dispossession, labour coercion and state subsidisation of the chosen few. Secondly, it resolved that while regulation, liberalisation and the resulting competitive pressures on the sector eliminated many of the privileges of the large-scale farming sector, various aspects of policy and legislation still reinforced the legacy of the past.

Also, concentrated ownership, price collusion and the high degree of vertical integration in farming, agroprocessing and retail limited the space for new entrants, particularly smallholder farmers. Monopolistic practices also reinforced the recent rises in food prices, which undermined economic growth and the fight against hunger and poverty.

Regarding fisheries, the ANC believes that the natural resources of South Africa, including marine resources, belong to all the people of the country and should be managed and developed to the benefit of the country as a whole. South Africa's rich marine resources make a major contribution to alleviating poverty in coastal communities. The ANC has, over the years, sought to improve the quality of life in coastal communities by restoring rights of access to marine resources, by increasing employment opportunities and by improving health conditions in the fishing industry, particularly with regard to income, health and safety, and job security.

The policy intention is clear. The ANC-led government wishes to encourage the sustainable use of marine resources to ensure optimal long-term social and economic benefits. The fishing sector in particular has to be developed as an integral component of a general development strategy for coastal areas. For this to be achieved, transparent and accountable administration of marine resources has to take place.

In principle, access rights should be allocated as closely as possible to those who actually do the fishing. The licensing system has historically been highly problematic, in that it has granted many commercial licenses to a privileged few. The ANC policy seeks to protect and advance the interests of those who are dependent on fishing for a livelihood, protecting their interests.

Restructuring of the sector is a precondition for things to happen. The medium-term and long-term objective is both to ensure sustainable and economically thriving communities while, at the same time, ensuring the optimal use of marine resources. Central to this is the alignment of the administrative and operational activities of the Marine Living Resources Fund. The restructuring needs to be informed by a review of the Marine Coastal Management Act. This should equally address the incorporation of the Marine Coastal Management directly into a division of the department, as opposed to the detached entity it is currently.

The publication in the Government Gazette of the small-scale fisheries policy in September 2010, after a period of consultation, opened up debate on both what still needed transformation and what needed to be restructured. One of the biggest constraints in the small-scale fishing industry is the financing structures. The recently launched SA Finance Enterprise Agency – which falls under the Ministry of Economic Development – needs to be engaged with by the entire small-scale fisheries sector and what can be contributed needs to be established. Agreements should lead to financing that is accessible and affordable.

Any debate on the forestry sector must respond to the demands that the New Growth Path places on the forestry sector. The policy seeks to ensure that we develop labour-absorbing practices across the sectors of our economy – a long-standing ANC perspective. Of the five job drivers in the New Growth Path, Jobs Driver 5: Spatial Development speaks directly to the rural population who are engaged in the rural economy.

Forestry plays an important role in rural development and should have an integrated approach, both in its own programmes and that of rural development. The design and implementation of these must be devised in collaboration with rural communities. While management of plantations and indigenous forests is very important, the environmental and economic orientation must be driven by a policy perspective that places the masses of our people in the rural areas at the centre. The role of this Budget Vote must therefore be looked at in that context.

Unemployment, poverty and inequality can be addressed in the forestry sector and the proof of this lies in the fact that 12 000 green jobs were created through the forestry livelihood strategy in the financial year 2010-11.

Institutional restructuring must be under constant review. In particular, this relates to the South African Forestry Company Limited, Safcol. Currently, it is located under the Ministry of Public Enterprises. Its history is well known and its historic influence on practices within the forestry sector shaped a particular approach, which favoured the commercialisation of forests. To its credit, it played an important role in the implementation of the National Forestry Action Plan, but its location outside of the Ministry that deals with forestry needs to be reviewed. The ANC supports Budget Vote No 26 - Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 61


The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Chair, all the matters raised by the hon Neethling in this House are covered in the Spatial Planning and Land Use Management Bill. We will all be satisfied when we look at that Bill because it actually covers the issues relating to intergovernmental relations that he was raising. He was spot on.

Regarding young people, in terms of jobs and all the issues that were raised by my colleague, the hon Van Rensburg, I will be a guest of the Goedgedacht Trust on 16 June. Maybe he should accompany me. There is a farm there and we will be handing over land to add to what they have.. Hon Beerwinkel, we will be handing over school transport for the kids of farm labourers. So, we are doing work there.

Thirdly, regarding recapitalisation, I received an SMS yesterday from one Mabel Mokhatshane from the Free State, one of the wonderful beneficiaries of the recapitalisation programme. In it she said that they have entered into an agreement with Harmony Mine in the Free State to sell them tripe. She mentions how many times they will do so every month. That is the kind of story that is coming through as a result of this recapitalisation. Those 595 beneficiaries can tell you various stories. So, please, hon members, keep your eyes and ears open.

Fourthly, there is confusion with "plus". The ANC was very clear; they said to me: "Long term is 30 years." So, I don't understand this story that says this thing is short term. If people apply for a lease, the minimum for a long-term lease is 30 years, and we have actually given people up to 50 years. People talk about this elsewhere; they don't come to us to discuss their application for leases. So, please tell them to come and talk to us, hon member. [Interjections.]

With regard to Taung village and the hon member who was talking about the North West, we have already done a status quo report and we have handed it over to the premier. We are going to revitalise Taung village, starting this year. The new MEC is taking charge of that. Regarding the farm area of Verdwaal, where two kids lost their lives, we will also attend to that. I have met with my colleague there, the new MEC for Agriculture. We are going to be doing work there, together with her.

Regarding the 1913 Land Act, it is going to turn 100 years next year but I don't know how we can mark that in a civilised manner. We need advice on how we could mark this in a civilised manner because it was a very brutal and uncivilised form of land usurpation. So, we have to look at how we can now mark that very brutal and monstrous piece of legislation.

Lastly, regarding what the hon member Mokoena said, we have our CRD capital there, called Mkhondo. You will see in the policy speech that we jointly built a wonderful boarding school there, led by the premier. We are actually making a lot of progress. Thank you very much.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Hon Minister, if I can make an input on the issue you were raising: On the day of the 100-year anniversary, you should give people land, on a massive scale! [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Chair, thank you very much for that. Actually, you know, in the Free State we are left with 15. At the end of March, we were left with 16, but I signed off one more last week. So, we are getting there. We will probably celebrate this day in the Free State. By that time, we will be done with the Free State.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 62


The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon House Chair, I would like to thank the Ministers and the Deputy Ministers as well as the chairpersons for their participation. I would also like to thank the MECs and the hon members of the NCOP for their very wise counsel.

The hon member from Cope made it very clear to me that someone wrote the speech for him because he couldn't pronounce half of the words. [Laughter.] It was very clear that he is still part of gutter and Bantu education, where a white master has to write the speech for him, and he has to come and read it here! He definitely just did not know what he was talking about. [Interjections.] But anyway, the rest of the input was so positive. Thank you very much.

For us, the key to success in this industry is strong partnerships. With strong partnerships we can definitely grow the sector. We are looking forward to strengthening this industry. We are looking forward to offering business opportunities in our sector that would include business opportunities for small, medium and microenterprises in forestry and fisheries. We cannot have a large proportion of the people of South Africa excluded from the economy of forestry and fisheries because of the colour of their skin. After 18 years of democracy, black people must play a meaningful role in fisheries and forestry. The AgriBEE Charter compels us to make certain changes in the way we do business in agriculture. We have the courage; we have the commitment and we are fearless in the manner in which we will transform agriculture, forestry and fisheries.

The Forestry Charter framework allows us the opportunity to deliver on our mandate in forestry. However, time is against us and we have to move with more speed if we want to meet the Forestry Charter targets that we set ourselves.

South Africa is very strongly positioned to take advantage of the next wave of the commodities boom through our infrastructure investments. Our infrastructure investment with the Ministers of Water Affairs, Rural Development and Land Reform, through irrigation schemes, will put us as a country in a position to barter and trade with commodities at prices that will assist us in the creation of jobs.

The availability of more rail infrastructure, allowing us to take agriculture, forestry and fisheries products from road to rail, will provide the necessary infrastructure for economic development that is required in our sector. We know that Transnet was closed to agriculture, but once they open up rail infrastructure to agriculture, it will create jobs in many former railway towns – like De Aar – which were closed because the railway stopped going through those towns.

Government is committed to working together with other state institutions and with other state departments on action plans to optimise this sector's capacity. We are working with other sectors to attract investment and the investments we have attracted have already led to job opportunities.

Hon members, all that we as esteemed leaders of society need to do is to look at Stats SA's statistics every quarter so that we have the relevant information about what is happening in our sector. Then yuo would not need a white boss to write a speech for us. [Laughter.] You will then have up-to-date, relevant and independent information to tell you how many jobs are being created in the sector.

Government is working to harmonise legislation, as Deputy Minister Mulder has said, so that legislation can enhance our regulatory certainty and our regulatory environment. This will also help us when it comes to disease control, because whenever there is a disease outbreak, we lose very important revenue and this results in job losses.

Our ambition as a department in the remaining two years is to curb and address all delays and to curb and address all inefficiencies. Government is committed to ensuring food security for all. Through our Zero Hunger programme, we can do just that. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 63


The MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon House Chair, let me start by expressing my appreciation for the discussion and inputs that have been made. They were invaluable and we take note of most of them.

Just like my colleague, Minister Joemat-Pettersson, I struggled to hear what the hon member from Cope was saying. It is extremely difficult even to attempt to ... [Interjections.] I was not just confused, but could hardly hear what he said, so I can't respond to him. I hear he doesn't understand English. [Laughter.] That's fine. [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order! Order, hon members!

The MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: The chairperson of the committee raised various issues. I want to respond to the last sentence of her speech because it cuts across many of the responses or issues raised by hon members. That is the fact that many of our communities still do not have water. We take cognisance of that fact and I did make mention of it in my speech. I referred to the many communities that still do not have water. I also indicated that one of the reasons for this, as we found out, was that there was a lack of maintenance in many areas. I think hon Baloyi will talk about that, because we recently had a bilateral discussion on how to deal with that issue successfully.

To illustrate the point, we have a system in the department that looks at all the water infrastructure in the country. That system is able to show us the pipelines, water treatment plants, sewerage treatment plants, etc throughout the country. It also indicates those that are functional and those that are not.

In one area of Mthatha that we zoomed in on, we found that the infrastructure is available in the entire area, but because it had not been maintained over a long time, people there had no access to water. It's not a lack of infrastructure – the infrastructure is there – but the infrastructure is unable to function because it is not being maintained. We must zoom in on the issue of such infrastructure not being maintained. Is it that municipalities look away? No, it's not. There are various other issues that lead to that. There is a lack of capacity. There are no engineers in many of the municipalities. There is no capacity, no skills, no money, etc. Even with our interventions, it's impossible to intervene in all these areas at the same time. Hence we are tackling them chunk by chunk. We are also working with Minister Baloyi, hon Mokoena, and we are aligning with the Municipal Infrastructure Grant

I am saying that we are already working with certain provinces. The provinces, national departments as well as municipalities are aligning the grants nationally and provincially so that we can work on one infrastructure programme and improve it. We acknowledge that we are working extremely hard around the clock to improve on these challenges.

Issues around irrigation boards were raised by hon members in the Western Cape. There is just one water board in the Western Cape. I don't suppose you were referring to that one water board, but rather to the irrigation boards. There are still some untransformed irrigation boards. People in the department are saying that we should convert them. The law does say that they must be converted into water user associations. As far as I'm concerned, that is still cosmetic change. We need real change and transformation. If an irrigation board is converted into a water user association tomorrow, we still haven't dealt with the nitty-gritty of the issue. We are just placing one member of the community in there with a whole group of people who have been functioning together. To me, that is not transformation. We look forward to dealing with those issues when we review the law this year, here in the Western Cape and in other parts of the country, because the old irrigation boards still exist in the country.

Hon Neethling, we will indeed consult with municipalities when we deal with the rearrangement of the water boards. We also note the issue that you raised with regard to the tariffs. We are working hard around the clock on the water tariff strategy. We said to municipalities that this would be the last year that we would be submitting the tariff policy without the new tariff policy being in place. We are working on those issues. Environmental waste and all those in alignment will help us with all these issues.

Regarding the hierarchy of waste, I want to plead that we should be aware of and read the National Waste Management Strategy. For us, it's a job creator. The hierarchy of strategy, minimisation, reduction, reuse and recycling is the way to go, and we believe we can create many jobs through that. We spoke about that on World Environment Day, which was yesterday, and we will be launching that programme in the near future.

Hon MEC Jonas, with regard to climate change and the issues you raised, we are very keen to work with the Eastern Cape. We will come closer to you and work with you.


My liewe susterjie Beerwinkel, kom ek beskerm jou.


This is a political discussion, hon member. [Interjections.]


Dit is regtig nie onpolities nie. Dit ís polities. U is reg om daardie dinge in die Huis te sê net voor Mnr Baloyi opkom. U het die regte debat gevoer. Ons moet die waarheid praat. Daar is niks omtrent die ANC wat bedek moet word nie - ook nie wie so gemors het nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ons weet die dinge waamee ons werk kom van ver af – van toeka se dae af. Dit is nie die ANC wat dit veroorsaak het nie.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Hon Minister, your time has expired. I'm so sorry. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Thank you very much. I'm sorry too. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

Debate concluded.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 64



Debate on Vote No 3 – Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:

The MINISTER OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, all protocol observed. As we present this budget we are inspired by our deep sense of commitment to be accountable for the money under our control, voted for our programmes directly or indirectly for transfer to municipalities. We proudly make ourselves available for parliamentary scrutiny.

It is at moments like these that we remember the words of the biblical philosopher King Solomon in the Book of Proverbs, when he said: "A gentle answer quietens anger but a harsh one stirs it up." In the spirit of these words and as agents of democratic professionalism, we call for constructive engagement to expressly outweigh selfish and self-serving hypocrisy. We have a country to run and the world expects so much from us, the ruling party, and from the opposition.

We have no choice but to serve the people with pride and to talk to them in that process, even if we sometimes hold different views to them. But the game is talk to the people. As we did when we presented our budget in the National Assembly two weeks ago, we promise that today we will give a more dedicated, province-specific account of both our services for the period under review, as well as our plans for this financial year.

We identified five focus areas as constituting our agenda to fast-track the implementation of the turnaround strategy for local government and to improve the system of local governance. These five issues are service delivery, governance, financial management, infrastructure development and fighting corruption. Our objective is to achieve what we believe is the ideal municipality - a model institution of traditional and indigenous rule and a well-functioning system of cooperative governance through working together and providing support.

We present this Vote at a time when we have just witnessed the formal proclamation of the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, or Misa, a vehicle created to provide a ring-fenced intervention in the form of a government component. I want to stress the point raised by Minister Molewa that it is through this component that we will further ring-fence specific infrastructure areas to deal with questions of municipal infrastructure in regard to electricity provision and water provision. This is so that ours will be a situation where the support given will be to get even aged infrastructure ready to perform because in the absence of that, there really is no service delivery.

It is therefore necessary at this stage to remind ourselves of the key questions that Misa seeks to answer. Those questions include how to improve municipal performance through accelerated infrastructure delivery; how to improve the management of existing infrastructure and local government, including making sure that there is proper maintenance and refurbishment to enhance their value; how to enhance the technical capacity and skills competency of municipalities to develop and sustain the delivery of infrastructure; how to develop sustainable funding models for infrastructure delivery; how to build and sustain partnerships among the various stakeholders with regard to infrastructure delivery and capacity enhancement in municipalities; and how to establish appropriate institutional arrangements, including effective monitoring and evaluation systems.

In the province-specific account that we adopted for today's debate, we have decided to reflect on each of the critical milestones per province. We do so with a view to using a provincial picture as a microcosm of the situation in the other provinces and so that the support we provide in the case of the simulated province will be the same as the support we will provide in the other provinces.

In the interest of time, we will not be in a position to give the province specifics in detail. As we promised members last time, we have published a booklet that will focus on giving a detailed account of all the facts that I may not be able to address in 10 minutes.

This being the case, for the Eastern Cape our focus is on governance. When we say "our focus is on governance", our aim is to support all the municipalities in that province and to use it as a microcosm, as I have indicated, to make sure that we have all the necessary systems and structures needed to make governance a reality in the area.

In the Free State, we are focusing on a model municipality. With that we are saying that we will provide support up to the point where everyone will say, "My municipality, my service"; where all municipalities will be equal to what is expected of them and will be providing effective service delivery. We are working in cooperation with the provincial government there, as it has also identified certain municipalities as being high risk. We are dealing with those issues.

In Gauteng we are focusing on issues of service delivery, acknowledging that Gauteng is one of the provinces where there are clear systems for dealing with this aspect. Of course, we do take note of the fact that in the process we still have situations where people take to the streets in service protests. This is a point I will come back to later.

In KwaZulu-Natal we are focusing on achieving ideal co-operation between municipalities and traditional institutions. Of course we acknowledge the work that the province has started to do to deal with these issues and to make sure that local governance, whether in traditional communities or in communities that are outside traditional areas, is a joint operation in that our traditional councils and our municipal councils co-operate.

In Limpopo our focus is on financial management. We note, of course, that we face the challenge of most people saying it is all doom and gloom. The reality is that we do have model municipalities, like Fetakgomo and others, that are doing so well. If we were to look at the model of those areas, we would note that those are the places in that province where municipal public accounts committees have been established and are functioning well. So, we are saying let's look at that we need to look at, then we can talk about how we get other areas on board.

In Mpumalanga our focus is on establishing a model relationship with Salga. After all, we want a situation where Salga is working together with Cogta and all the other departments, so that we can say, yes, Salga is the collective voice of municipalities. So, we are working together to make sure that that model is successful and we can proudly say that we were the ones who built it.

In the Northern Cape we are focusing on infrastructure development. As we know, the Northern Cape is geographically vast, although the population is small. When we deal with issues of infrastructure development in that area, we therefore do so with a view to boosting its impact on development in that area.

In the Western Cape, where we are now, we are saying our main focus will be on public participation, for it is when we take people on board that we will succeed. At no time would you want to find municipalities or government celebrating and saying that things are going well when, on the other hand, people are complaining. We will therefore continue to strengthen our municipalities and traditional communities as a product of our assessment of these questions.

In the limited time I have, I want to draw the attention of honourable delegates to some of the issues that we always have to address as matters of priority. The first is the issue of the further transformation of the institution of traditional rule and creating space for the recognition of the Khoi-San community. We acknowledge that the provinces are doing well in the establishment of the provincial committees to champion the settlement of the remaining claims and disputes so that we may conclude the chapter started by Commissioner Nhlapo. The call we are making to our traditional leaders and their subjects is that, even as we deal with these difficult issues, we should not lose sight of the fact that there is wisdom in dealing with cases amicably, lest we have ourselves to blame should lawlessness become the order of the day in our communities.

We have heard, of course, of certain unfortunate developments where claims and counterclaims resulted in serious confrontation, which sometimes became violent. Government is leading the process and we took the decision to fast-track the processing of applications - without compromising quality, of course.

The second issue deals with the remuneration of traditional leaders. As we are aware, the independent commission that government established is seized with this matter. We know that the issues regarding headmen and headwomen still call for some tightening up. The latest recommendations by the commission provided only for a dispensation prescribing an upper limit in a differentiated system, assuming that we have functional specialisation, where some headmen and headwomen perform governance issues while others deal only with questions of social cohesion.

We are currently working closely with the commission to address this matter and we are calling for leaders and their subjects to allow this process to continue – even more so because, while we are dealing with the matter, provincial governments continue to treat the situation according to their own interpretation and capacity, which is the right thing to do.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Hon Minister, you have one minute to finish up.

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: We know that some people will try to justify violence, saying that they feel provoked because they don't have services. As I conclude, I want to indicate that no amount of provocation will justify people becoming violent as they use their democratic right to protest for services. That is the call we are making. [Interjections.] We also call on hon members - we all have constituencies with areas where dissatisfied people live - to take them on board, to educate them, to share with them the doors that are open to them to raise their issues.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 64


The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Thank you, hon Minister. Hon members, before I call the next speaker, let me just give a ruling on the point of order that was raised by the hon Lees during the plenary session on Thursday, 24 May 2012. The hon member asked whether it was parliamentary for a member to refer to another member as a coward. In terms of Rule 33, a member addressing the Chair may only be interrupted to call attention to a question of privilege, which should be about the content of a member's speech. It is the prerogative of a member to either answer a question or not. Other members should respect the member's decision.

Subject to the Rules, a member may state whatever he or she thinks fit in debate and we should be tolerant of one another. Lively debates are encouraged and as such interjections are permissible. However, in doing so, hon members should always preserve the decorum of the House and avoid personal attacks on fellow members.

In summary, I rule that the use of words such as "coward" is discouraged and would like to caution members to always refer to a person or another member in an honourable way. I now call upon the hon H Mokgobi, the chairperson of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 65


Mr M H MOKGOBI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Baloyi and Deputy Minister Yunus Carrim, hon members, visitors up there and our MECs from the provinces, I stand in the footprint of yet another gallant soldier and fearless fighter who stood here a few years ago but has now left us. Here, in the same venue, we welcome hon Richard Baloyi, who is pursuing the programme of our late Minister, Sicelo Siceka. To the latter we say, rest in peace.

One of the most important lessons to be derived from the 100 years of existence of the ANC is to always be rooted in the people and to remain true to their aspirations. Since our assumption of power, we, the governing party, have sought to transform local government into a people-oriented and development-oriented government, as articulated in the Constitution of the Republic and, most importantly, in the words of the Freedom Charter: "The people shall govern." In the policies and values of our movement, we place great emphasis on the promotion of public involvement and people's participation in their own governance.

These values are expressed in our 2009 electoral message, "Working together we can do more", and the 2011 local government manifesto, "Together we can build better communities". Institutionally and in terms of policies, the Ministry for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is centrally located to entrench these messages and ensure that all spheres of government act in tandem and are well co-ordinated in the delivery of services and promotion of development. This is so because, in addition to its mandate, the Ministry is responsible for overseeing the implementation of key programmes, such as the integrated development plans.

In line with Outcome 9 of the government's priority plans, the Ministry is also at the centre of overseeing the implementation of the Local Government Turnaround Strategy. The pillars of this strategy are tightening the municipal supply chain management mechanism; establishing a window of co-ordination to curb the overregulation of municipalities; implementing special-purpose vehicles for infrastructure development, particularly in struggling municipalities; refining the model of ward committees to give effect to participatory democracy in communities; and the development and implementation of the Clean Cities/Towns and the Clean Audits 2014 programmes.

Given the challenges that local government is faced with, which are to a large degree associated with uneven and geographic underdevelopment, as well as management, this programme is critically important for our assessment of the 2012-2013 budget. This programme is consistent with the department's critical mandate of ensuring that the agenda for the transformation of local government, as enshrined in the White Paper on the Transformation of Local Government, is realised.

You would agree with me that, historically speaking, local government has come a long way - from TLC to municipal transformation characterised by interactions such as project control dates and five-year local government agendas. We are now in Local Government Turn-around Strategies, which have done much more to take our municipalities to where they are now.

Contrary to the prophets of doom, opposition parties in particular, who characterise municipalities as if absolutely nothing was happening, more than 70% of our municipalities are complying with the terms of their transformation agenda.

Without wasting time in the middle of my speech but in case I forgot, the Select Committee would like it to be on record that we support the budget.

To take the House through a few challenges, the NCOP and its various permanent delegates went to the various provinces in what we call Provincial Week. Hon Minister and the Deputy Minister, in Limpopo, as you pursue the various programmes that we have engaged with, do check on Thabazimbi in Limpopo, which is technically bankrupt. Some form of intervention or a special vehicle or unit is needed that could concentrate on spending some time there.

At the same time, in the very same Waterberg District, look into Lephalale, where funds are just being lost. One discovers that nowadays funds can even get lost in the bank, through what we call cyber crimes. In Lephalale, R9 million has been lost. Fortunately, some people have been arrested. We suspect collusion between some members of municipal management and certain crooks out there. It is important that attention should be given to that.

In Western Cape, in line with all those the Minister has targeted and his differentiated approach in terms of municipalities, in Western Cape municipalities such as Swellendam and Kannaland need specific attention, not only in terms of public participation but beyond that. There is financial disarray and quarrles in those municipalities, even though we were told that there is a coalition of some sort - a coalition of DA and ACDP - which might be responsible. Do the research - maybe they are responsible, maybe not. Then we will see how you intervene. [Interjections.]

Hon Minister, Mpumalanga is where we can safely say that as the select committee we went through section 139, as determined. We went to Thembisile Hani. The situation was bad, but we have the report now and the results show that it is been healed. I think the department needs to do more.

We then went to KZN, to Msunduzi in particular, which is a potential metro. [Interjections.] Yes, the city of choice. It is now the city of choice because it is recuperating: management and the political interface are beginning to talk to each other positively towards realising the aspirations of the people in that area.

We also went to the North West. We are a bit disappointed because we thought Madibeng Municipality would be coming soon but is in another intervention under section 106. Maybe that is provincially based, but I think support is also needed in terms of that.

There is this mosquito-like problem that comes from time to time to eat the Free State municipalities. We need to refocus our attention in Nala Municipality. There seems to be an underlying political competition of parties - not infighting but political competition - in preparation of 2014, or something like that. I think we need to look at that.

In the Eastern Cape, we have the Mnquma Municipality, which once took our government to court. However, as we speak, the provincial department, through the MEC, has deemed it possible for Mnquma to improve. Things are beginning to go well in that municipality, including in Kou-Kamma, where there was mismanagement, no communication, and more. Things are coming out. So, in a way, section 139 does assist, although its application is highly fragmented. Maybe we need to call for another, deeper look into whether we can't come with the legislation, through section 8 of the Constitution, that will give us a common approach in terms of the application of section 139. We must also make sure it does not clash with section 139 of the Municipal Management Act, which also gives the MEC powers to act. So, these things needs harmonisation. Sometimes you will find that it has been applied, or you get letters saying this is not their jurisdiction; it is a provincial matter. So, we need these sections to be in harmony and talk to each other.

I will jump to another issue, because the Chairperson is strict! This is the issue of water, particularly where you have infrastructure but no water. These cases are not documented; we just know this through meetings. I am from Mopani in Giyani. You know, Minister, that in Giyani there are many problems with water. There is a reservoir that used to give people water, but currently it doesn't. During section 12 notices, when we were transferring from the old order to the new municipalities, information disappeared and the people who were key resigned. The municipality therefore does not have data showing inlets and outlets. You do not even know where there is a valve. It was discovered only after certain elders, who were working there, physically showed them where the valve was. This has caused the duplication of many pipelines, because there was no information or master plan to guide that.

I was happy when the Minister of Water Affairs said we now have all the information. I think it is important that a particular approach should be followed to assist this municipality. Where there are such reservoirs, give them this information so that when they reticulate, they do not cause duplication, or damage pipes when they dig for new pipes. That is when you have the opposition, who was in government before but ran away, saying you are wasting resources when it is in fact their legacy. So, it is important that this information needs to be given.

Thank you, hon Chairperson, I am afraid of your eyes. [Laughter.] [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 66


Mr A BREDELL: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, MECs, mayors and colleagues in the NCOP, thank you for the opportunity to address you. It is pleasing to note that there is more and more consent around the key issues facing municipalities across our country.

In his budget speech this year, Minister Baloyi listed five key areas intended to fast-track the implementation of the turnaround strategy for municipalities. Ministers like to be known for having their own plans, so I was very pleased that when Minister Baloyi took over and was asked what his plans were and what he was going to focus on, he said that we should first get those plans that are already on the table ready and into governance. I think that sets a new example, namely that we need to focus and work together. Thank you for that, Minister.

I feel a bit stupid reading section 152 of the Constitution because I think Deputy Minister Carrim knows this off by heart, but it is important and always good to read it again on this kind of platform. Section 152 of the Constitution tells us what is expected and what the objectives of local government are. Basically, there are five:

To provide democratic and accountable government for local communities;

to ensure the provision of services to communities in a sustainable manner;

to promote social and economic development;

to promote a safe and healthy environment;

to encourage the involvement of communities and community organisations in the matters of local government.

If that is our focus, I think we will pull together and we will make a difference within our beautiful country.

The hon chairperson mentioned two municipalities in the Western Cape and yes, he is correct. It is worrying because we are the province of coalitions - we acknowledge that and it is not always easy, especially when there is one small partner that can create a hanging council, which will create chaos within municipalities. We need to acknowledge that. We need to say where the problems are. Although the one is a DA and ACDP coalition, the other one is an ANC and Independent Civic Organisation of SA coalition. It doesn't matter which coalition it is, because this is about service delivery. It is about what we do as leaders and as politicians. Do our actions lead to services in those communities? I think it is very important that we look at the system. I would love to one day again have a cup of coffee or tea with the Minister or the Deputy Minister to discuss a couple of these issues.

It is difficult when you struggle with these issues and you know there is no quick fix. It is difficult because we talk about spheres of government but think about levels of government. The communities out there also think about levels of government. That is problematic because they expect the Minister to intervene in these councils and to come and help them. Sometimes it is very difficult to sit still, knowing you do not have powers to intervene, when it is actually very easy to fix the problem within those municipalities. So, it is something that we need to debate because if we get it right, we can make a huge impact in our municipalities.

Both National Outcome 9 and Provincial Strategic Objective 10 seek to address the challenges facing our municipalities. Very briefly, PSO 10 strives to achieve integrated service delivery to make the maximum impact. I can promise and make a commitment to the Minister and the Deputy Minister that, from the Western Cape's side, we align ourselves and our performance with national outcomes, and we focus on that. We will also do our part to help you make your targets set by the President. I think we are all in this boat together and we all need to focus and make it work.

What we want to achieve is to align provincial and municipal priorities now, because then all three spheres will be aligned; to capacitate our municipalities to deliver on their constitutional mandate; and to increase the number of people with access to government services. That is crucial in the Western Cape.

Let me shed some light on what we are doing to contribute to these targets. Among other initiatives, my officials assisted municipalities in the recruitment of municipal managers. As you know, we make recommendations to the national Minister in the process and if the candidate has the minimum qualifications. We set the example because we were in a dispute with one of the municipalities, where we said a municipal manager didn't have the necessary qualifications. The municipality took us to court and lost the court case last week. So, I think this sets a new trend within the country. Municipalities need to take note of the fact that courts are in agreement that national and provincial government do have the oversight role and must see to it that there are certain competencies within municipalities. I welcome that judgment.

The department will also develop a compliance model for municipalities to monitor whether they comply with laws and apply them. I also want to stress the need to review the legislation to enable the department to intervene before things get out of hand - but I think we will discuss that in a Minmec or on one of the platforms that we have.

Chairperson, council meetings are very important. They are actually the platforms that give meaning to service delivery because local government is the closest sphere to the people and we need to improve that. As the Western Cape, we are going to do that by coming up with a code of conduct for councillors, also within council meetings. The department will also develop rules of order and procedure for councillors, which will guide council meetings.

My department has also improved planning in the province by giving the integrated development plans their original status of becoming municipal "super plans" that build on other plans, such as the comprehensive municipal infrastructure plan, the integrated transport plan and the disaster management plan. To achieve the desired integrated planning, the department put 17 learners on the IDP learnership programme for municipalities. Provincial departments assessed municipal IDPs and the assessments were shared with municipalities. Provincial and national departments, as well as the municipalities and state-owned enterprises participated in the IDP izindaba. That is where we bring all three spheres of government together within the province so that they can talk to one another and support the IDPs within the municipalities from day one.

Good planning also includes effective fire-fighting within the province and we have extended our fire-fighting services and capacity within the province by appointing six provincial Working on Fire ground teams and mobilising 24 aircraft. I would like to take this opportunity to thank national Ministers for their support in this process. The result has been a drastic reduction of fires within our province.

Good planning includes making sure that the relevant role-players are involved. In his Budget Vote speech, Minister Baloyi stated that people are getting intolerant and are taking to the streets. He also mentioned it today and it is a worrying factor that we need to communicate to our people.

I think communication is the biggest issue within municipalities, and therefore I have handed out this little booklet today. It is a nice read about the ward committee system. We in the Western Cape promote this. The councillor signs off that they understand it; that they understand their roles within municipalities. I think it will be through an effective ward committee systems that we could bring government closer to the people and promote the system within our municipalities.

Furthermore, the department also supported a couple of municipalities – the West Coast, Oudtshoorn, Stellenbosch, Laingsburg, and so forth - with communication strategies within the municipalities. We are very pleased that it is going quite well there.

My department also supported municipalities and the Department of Water Affairs with the planning and implementation of 22 bulk water and sanitation projects in the Western Cape, and we developed a guideline for finance municipal infrastructure. We supported the municipalities and therefore the spending on the Municipal Infrastructure Grant was more or less 99,85%.

Regarding our Thusong centres and Thusong programmes, the flagship programmes for the municipalities, within the next five years 100% of the people within the Western Cape province will be no further than 24km from Thusong services within the province. We are very proud of our programme. We have reached 37 000 citizens with the Thusong programme this year and 22 967 referrals for identity documents, indigent grants and housing applications were submitted through the help of our community development workers programme.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 67


Cllr M NAWA (Salga): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members of the House, hon executive mayors and fellow councillors who are present, we wish to agree with the Minister when he boldly emphasised, in his Vote, that it is not all doom and gloom. Indeed, there are many good practices and pockets of excellence to be found at local government level. It is critical to bear in mind the tremendous strides and progress that government has made - with local government playing a critical role - in expanding the provision of services to our people. While acknowledging and addressing the challenges, we should not be overwhelmed by the obstacles before us.

It is true that the triple challenge of poverty, unemployment and inequality are manifested at local government level because that is where people meet government in all forms. To the communities, there is no distinction between national, provincial and local government, including state enterprises. The transformation from a society rooted in discrimination and disparity to a constitutional democracy posed and will continue to pose particularly profound challenges at local government level. It is here that acute imbalances in personal wealth, physical infrastructure and provision of services were and are most obvious.

On service delivery protests and the need for risk cover for councillors, we need to contextualise the microscopic lens on local government as a reflection of government. In that context, service delivery protests have become part and parcel of a democratic form of demonstration. While we condemn in the strongest terms the violent nature of some of these protests, we must firmly confront the challenges still befalling our people.

It is also critical that we, the leadership of local government, should collectively be hands on in responding to issues raised by communities. We invite the Minister to work with us when going to municipalities to address these challenges, so that we do not sing from different hymn sheets. In fact, many of the issues raised in these protests are not local government functions, but local government represents all forms of government to communities. So, councillors, particularly ward councillors, bear the brunt of it or, most tragically, suffer loss of life. Most councillors are at the coalface and the most vulnerable to public outrage, but they do not receive risk cover against these deadly attacks. We want to emphasise that we are strongly of the view that this must be urgently corrected. Councillors are no less public servants than hon members of this House and they deserve the same protection.

The same applies to fast-tracking the review of the remuneration framework of councillors. Some financial management and good governance for effective service delivery is highly important. To this end, Salga has intensified, along with provincial government, our efforts to roll out municipal public accounts committees in all provinces. Indeed, for the most part, MPACs have been established throughout the country and they are functioning. The continuous challenges will be to capacitate councillors to ensure the clarity of their roles and that they understand the importance of oversight and accountability. The fruits of clean audits will follow.

The financial viability of various municipalities is a critical issue and we certainly welcome the haste with which the review of the local government component of the equitable share is currently being undertaken by the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the National Treasury. However, as Salga, it remains our view that a comprehensive review of a broader fiscal framework and vertical division is needed to address fundamental structural challenges, rather than introducing minor and ad hoc adjustments. The analysis indicates that municipalities have been and continue to be grossly underfunded to perform the big five functions, as raised before.

While demarcation issues are related to the viability of municipalities, as was highlighted by the Minister, we wish to caution that amalgamating or incorporating one municipality or more will not address the challenges per se. We should be careful of creating false expectations that the identification of unviable municipalities and their possible disestablishment or re-demarcation will solve the underlying economic reality or historical settlement patterns.

At the same time, with respect to rural development, we must acknowledge that the current concept of municipalities is modelled on the management of urban spaces, largely premised on raising rates and charges, even in predominantly rural municipal areas where this is not the case. Due to the nature of the municipal powers and functions, few predominantly rural municipalities are primarily concerned with implementing appropriate rural development strategies. They must be addressed in the broader viability and reconfiguration review.

While we welcome the legislative review as a means of addressing the constraints hindering service delivery and overregulation of local government, we must ensure that the ultimate objective is to build and strengthen a decentralised form of government, which does not take away responsibility for service delivery from the municipalities.

The same principle applies to the regulations accompanying the Municipal Systems Act, and we will work closely with the Ministry on refining them. In so doing we must demystify some of the untruths that give rise to sensational reporting in the media as it relates to local government, including municipal management, and instead ensure that our policy and legislative interventions do in fact address the fundamental and systematic problems. The institutional integrity of local government must be preserved.

In the same vein, the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agency must not become another stop-gap measure, but must support medium and smaller-capacity municipalities to improve their own technical capacity to operate and maintain infrastructure, borrowing and investment in infrastructure. It is a reality that our country is not producing enough technical skills to manage technical services.

In relation to Local Government Week, it is with appreciation that we acknowledge that Local Government Week will be included in the programme of the NCOP and that the Council has agreed to hold its inaugural session in 2012. The purpose of the Local Government Week is not only to allude to challenges experienced by the local government but also to celebrate the success of local government. It will allow the local government sector the opportunity to share its experiences with the House.

In conclusion, this debate and broader policy discussions come at a critical juncture, as local government settles into a new term and comes to grips with the ever-increasing challenges confronting us. In our estimation, the response to these challenges can now go a long way in realising the objective of bringing a more efficient, effective and accountable local government that is highly capacitated to contribute meaningfully to the development of the state. There can be little doubt that local government is the key site of delivery and development and is central to the entire transformative project of the new South Africa.

We must therefore use this opportunity to address some of the fundamental constraints hampering local government so that this sector can have a stable, sound and equitable policy, legislative and fiscal framework to deliver on the developmental mandate. Let us support the Minister in the implementation of this Vote and forge a strong partnership with our provincial partners in addressing service delivery gaps. The "one for" summits will be a critical platform to entrench our joint collaboration. As Salga we appreciate being part of this co-operative partnership and look forward to influencing the outcomes. Kealeboga. [Thank you.] [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 68


Mr V M MANZINI: Thank you Chair, our Ministers who are present today, MECs and our fellow colleagues, co-operative governance is an effective tool in accelerating service delivery. The Auditor-General embarked on Operation Clean audit 2014: Advancing our combined efforts to strengthen our municipalities to deliver quality services to our people.

President Jacob Zuma, during the annual state of the nation address on 9 February 2012, outlined government's programmes of action: [Interjections.]

I would like to appeal to all our people to join hands as they always do, as we deal decisively with the triple challenge of unemployment, poverty and inequality. Nobody will do this for us. It is in our hands and we are all equal to the task.

In growing infrastructure and creating jobs, we as the DA support Trevor Manuel's plan as the best way to support infrastructure development. More infrastructure is needed, at massive cost, and finding new water sources will also come with a high price tag. In fact, it is true that in parts of South Africa, there are municipalities that do not have water. An example of this is Bushbuckridge, which is where our hon MEC and I am from. This is where people were toyi-toying in service-delivery protests due to the lack of water. There is a problem, but that doesn't mean that people should destroy. [Interjections.]

President Jacob Zuma also said:

Government will continue to improve the performance of the state in various ways, including the fight against fraud and corruption.

Corruption must be rooted out. Corruption is a major obstruction to economic development and it hampers the delivery of services and the battle against unemployment. The Bill of Rights entitles people to basic needs. The government has to deliver to the people or there could be problems.

Corruption is a malignant cancer, rotting away our social and political cohesion. Let us collectively call for action to weed out the corrupt and rotten minority, bring them before the courts and put them behind bars. [Interjections.]

The Minister of Finance, Pravin Gordhan, said: "Taxpayers' money is going into private pockets; pockets that don't even pay tax." I have to side with hon Minister Baloyi, when he said that when we go back to our constituencies, we have to teach our people to behave correctly, not to destroy. [Interjections.] It is our duty to do that. For example, when doctors are about to perform an operation, they come together and discuss all the ways in which they are going to operate. Even the doctor who is going to administer the anaesthetic knows exactly how that patient should be, and how long the operation should last. So whose duty is that? Whose job is that? It is our job. {Interjections.] [Laughter.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order, order members!

Mr V M MANZINI: The damage is even greater when corrupt contractors do not do proper jobs and often there are even more expenses to fix the mess. Inefficiency is deliberate, as it makes ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order, hon Manzini. Hon Nyambi?

Mr A J NYAMBI: Chair, I want to check whether the hon Manzini is ready to take a question? [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Hon Manzini, are you ready? [Interjections.]

Mr V M MANZINI: I'm not prepared. [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): He's not prepared. Order! Order! [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

Mr V M MANZINI: Inefficiency is deliberate as it makes it difficult to trace corruption. If documents are missing, then little can be proved. The Auditor-General then has to issue a disclaimer, which means that there is not enough evidence to present an opinion. That is why it is vitally important that deviations from accounting procedures be sanctioned severely. Gross negligence is a criminal offence under the Public Finance Management Act.

We have good anticorruption legislation, but enforcement is abysmal. Corruption will only be defeated when there is top-level political will and qualified people who pursue all cases relentlessly. [Interjections.]

Our municipalities are characterised by service delivery protests. Anger and frustration drives protesters to destroy property. Is that the solution? No, that cannot be tolerated. [Time expired.] [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 69


Mr A G MATILA: Chairperson, I hope hon Manzini will advise the DA in the Western Cape because they run to the courts to prevent investigations of corruption. That is what they are doing. I hope that you'll advise your leader, Helen Zille, to deal with that particular matter and not run to the courts. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, members, members of executive council, MECs, present, ladies and gentlemen, the ANC is saddened by the passing on of Comrade Sicelo Shiceka on 30 April 2012. His passing has robbed us of one of our comrades who had worked tirelessly for the liberation of our struggle. He has made his lasting contribution by not only fighting for liberation but also through his contribution in government. He was a member of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. May his soul rest in peace!

In his state of the nation address, the President of the Republic reminded us that the work done last year indicated that if we continued to grow reasonably well, we would begin to write a new story about South Africa, the story of how, working together, we drove back unemployment and reduced economic inequalities and poverty.

A culture of patronage and nepotism is now so widespread in many municipalities that the formal municipal accountability system is ineffective and inaccessible to many citizens. Citizens now lack confidence and trust in the system. This has been publicly evident in the spate of community protest during a course of the year, which may be seen as a symptom of the alienation of citizens from local government.

Moreover, councillors have been accused of being arrogant and insensitive to the needs of the community. The lack of effective complaints management and having no coherent system in place to measure service delivery or the quality of client interface are some of the political reasons underlying protest action. In this financial year, hon Minister, as the Select Committee on Cogta, we need decisive action on the side of the department to deal with these challenges.

The burning of the houses of councillors during service delivery protests should be condemned. As the ANC, we call on the SA Police Service to move swiftly and arrest the culprits. We should not tolerate anarchy and vandalism of council houses by rough elements. No amount of frustration and anger should allow protesters to take the law into their own hands. Any violent conduct and burning of houses of councillors to highlight certain demands cannot be accepted because it is tantamount to anarchy and disorder. The majority of the people voted because they want to strengthen democracy and any violent conduct reverses all these gains.

The department has often stated to our committee that it is establishing early-warning systems in order to proactively respond to disaster. The recent disaster bears testimony to the lack of preparedness to deal with disasters and their related consequences. This situation therefore begs the question of the efficiency of the department in putting all these legislative measures in place to prevent loss of life and damage to property.

Most district municipalities do not have disaster management centres in order to adequately respond to disasters and assist local municipalities in the event of disasters. Another area of concern is the release of disaster funds to alleviate the damage caused by disasters. There are often delays for long periods of time And, in the recent events, money has not been transferred to the affected areas, including Sol Plaatje and Dikgatlong local municipalities in the Northern Cape.

Unique challenges faced by weaker and more vulnerable municipalities impacts on rural development problems, including a massive infrastructure backlog legacy that requires extraordinary measures to address funding and delivery of capacity requirements. On the other hand it has been demonstrated that urban and relatively more stable municipalities are also being challenged due to increased urban growth. New household formations and population growth require better spatial and infrastructure planning and more credible public participation and community interface systems.

The two main obstacles in accelerating basic services are therefore the lack of critical infrastructure in rural areas and the proliferation of informal settlements in urban areas. Both these obstacles are beyond the capabilities of powers and functions of municipalities to confront them.

As the ANC we are delighted that on 11 May 2012 your department launched a R47 billion Strategic Infrastructure Programme 7. Sip7 is an integrated urban space and public transport infrastructure development programme that is part of the 17 Sips announced by President Jacob Zuma in his 2012 state of the nation address to respond to some of the challenges I highlighted earlier.

The system of ward committees is a brilliant system. However, it needs to be enhanced and strengthened to ensure effective implementation. Municipalities are not engaging in sustainable ways with local communities. In fact, issues raised on the ground do not find expression in council meetings and related processes. The extent of the reported tensions between ward committees, community development workers and councillors also undermines functionality and may indeed be one of the contributory factors in the escalation of community protests.

To make local government work far more effectively, we have to focus more attention on energy and resources. If local government worked more effectively and was more transformative, it would contribute significantly to the advancement of the National Democratic Revolution. But if it did not perform better, the ANC's overall transformation programme would be severely challenged.

The institution of traditional leaders is central to our system of governance in rural areas. However, there are key challenges to ensuring greater equity and standardisation in the manner in which this institution is treated across various provinces. An additional area of local concern is that municipalities that have traditional leaders in their areas of jurisdiction have reported a poor working relationship between themselves and traditional leaders.

Going forward, the capacity of traditional leaders must be more fully leveraged to assist municipalities in addressing service delivery issues. Means are needed to ensure that traditional leaders are fully involved in service delivery and planning for their areas, as well as with the structures operating in local communities.

Effective professional administration in municipalities is undermined by the difficulty of attracting qualified and experienced technical and management professionals outside urban areas. The seriousness of the skills scarcity is deepened by the decline of municipal professional associations and poor links between local government and the tertiary education sector. This has contributed to a serious breakdown in the supply of municipal professionals. These scenarios, broadly present in the spatially vulnerable areas in particular, have an enormous impact on the quality of service delivery.

No experienced senior managers in key posts for planning and infrastructure and financial management may be weak or exposed to undue influences. The department must urgently respond to this challenge.

I wrap up with words borrowed from the American industrialist, founder of Ford Motor Company and sponsor of the development of the assembly line techniques of mass production, Henry Ford: "Coming together is a beginning, keeping together is progress and working together is success." The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 70


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, Minister, MECs, comrades and friends, the fact that we have to review the two-tier system of district and local municipalities is glaringly obvious. That there is significant consensus on this issue across political parties and other stakeholders is abundantly clear too. We agree on the need for a review. What we may not agree on is what we replace the current system with. If we disagree, that would be understandable, for perhaps the most difficult aspect of the major review of the local government system as a whole, which is under way currently, is what to do with the two-tier model.

There are no easy answers and it would not help to unduly politicise this debate. Whatever our political and other identities, we are all having to apply our minds co-operatively to arrive at a durable solution that best serves our country.

You, hon members in this House, given your preoccupation with provincial and national interests, not simply with party political interests – which is why, of course, the Minister focused so much on what we are planning to do with you in the provinces – can indeed play a helpful role in ensuring that we have a measured, balanced and productive debate on this. It is in your interest too, because a discussion about the role of districts inevitably raises issues about the role of provinces.

Let us remember that districts were established to ensure integrated development planning for the whole district, promote bulk infrastructure and services, build the capacity of weaker local municipalities, facilitate economies of scale, encourage a measure of redistribution between municipalities and more equitable services, and provide services where local municipalities don't have the capacity.

For a variety of reasons, the current model is not working. Among the reasons is the lack of clarity on the distribution of powers and functions between districts and local municipalities; the absence of a clear framework for MECs to adjust these powers and functions; the inadequate use by MECs – I hope you are noting this – of the Municipal Demarcation Board's capacity assessments in deciding on the adjustment of powers and functions – understandably, perhaps, but that is a challenge - the removal of the Regional Service Council levies, which was a major source of revenue for districts, of course; the allocation of unreasonable direct service delivery functions to districts – for which I should take some responsibility, as indeed should your Chairperson, hon Mahlangu, who was here a moment ago, as the other culprit. We were responsible for this, so we must sort it out. The Minister is totally innocent - he was involved in another sphere then.

Then there is the lack of capacity of district municipalities and, of course, turf battles between local municipalities. These battles reflect tensions over power within political parties, with different political factions becoming embedded in the districts and local municipalities at different times and using their dominance in these different tiers to advance their narrow political interests.

Minister, you must remind me, I need to tell you a wonderful anecdote about Msunduzi and uMgungundlovu on the eve of a certain party's provincial congress – a party I shall not mention by name, although it is observing its 100th anniversary this year.

Inadequate national and provincial support for district municipalities is also responsible, of course. In 2008-09 ... [Interjections.] I can't think why the member from the DA is heckling me when I'm actually admitting to a problem within the party I am from. This shows his very parlous understanding of what is happening. [Interjections.] Whatever – he is an opposition member.

In 2008-09, the Municipal Demarcation Board found that, regrettably, 76% of district municipalities performed less than 50% of their functions. Almost half of the districts are now entirely funded by the national fiscus. Some of the reasons for the inadequate performance of district municipalities are, of course, subjective. Others, however, are objective, flowing from the current model itself. But some of the subjective failings are, in fact, encouraged by the model we have. The current model certainly has to be changed. So, what are the options? There are several.

Before I deal with that, I should point out that the chairperson of the Select Committee said that he was intimidated by your eyes, and he slid away. I should point out to you that I have very poor eyesight, so I will not be sensitive to your eyes. If I exceed my time limit, it is simply because I don't have proper, decent spectacles or proper eyesight. In this context I will qualify to be a person with a disability. I hope you will be sensitive. Let me try. I said to the Minister that he was speaking faster than me. I have to beat him by speaking faster than him. I'm not sure I will finish, but let's see.

There are various options, comrades and friends. Firstly, we could scrap the two-tier system. Secondly, we could have districts with fewer powers and functions, mainly dealing with the roles of planning, co-ordinating and provision of bulk infrastructure. The third option is to have districts simply as administrative structures. The fourth option is to have districts simply as shared services models and the final option is to have districts in rural areas only.

There are other options as well, which would be various permutations of the above options. We need to discus the pros and cons of all of them. At this stage, perhaps the best option might be to have districts in rural areas only. In urban areas, where there are strong local municipalities, there should perhaps not be district municipalities. But in rural areas, districts could play a very important role in planning, co-ordination, provision of bulk infrastructure and services and assisting weaker municipalities.

Why not have single-tier systems of local government throughout the country, you may ask. In the first instance, we are not ready for it. We have huge rural areas – as many of you will know, even better than me – in which there are sparse settlements, with people living far apart from each other. Also, there are limited skills and capacity and it would be better to allocate those mainly to districts that would cover large geographical areas and several local municipalities, with the aim of developing the capacity of the local municipalities over time.

In the urban areas, on the other hand, there are strong local municipalities. Where there are these strong municipalities, they have tended, in fact, to eclipse the role of districts, and the division of powers and functions between them and the districts does not, in practice, match up to the role envisaged for districts in the policy and the legislation.

Moreover, with the increasing drift of people from the rural to the urban areas, urban local municipalities are increasingly challenged and cannot bear the burden of assisting weaker local municipalities adjoining them through the districts. Besides, provincial and national government have a greater responsibility than urban local municipalities to play this supportive and redistributive role.

With fewer districts, only in rural areas, provincial and national government will be able to offer more effective and focused support to them. The distribution of powers and functions between district and local municipalities might also be easier and more manageable. Certainly, the distribution of powers and functions between districts and local municipalities will need to be clear while allowing for flexibility in different conditions. The Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, after consultation with the MECs, Salga and other stakeholders, should provide a clear framework within which MECs should adjust powers and functions between districts and local municipalities.

The model of districts only in rural areas has to be located in terms of the differentiated system of local government that Cogta is working on. For the model to work, it must be stressed, there will have to be a review of the formula for the equitable share and other allocations from the national fiscus to local government and, in particular, district municipalities. Provincial governments, assisted by the national government, will have to monitor and support districts far more actively and effectively as part of a far more integrated co-operative governance system. Appropriately paid, skilled personnel need to be drawn into district municipalities. We don't need a Pascal Moloi in Johannesburg as much as we might need him in a rural district municipality, or a Michael Sutcliffe – whatever people might say about certain controversies surrounding him right now. We need him not in eThekwini; we need him in the most rural of rural municipalities in the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. So, we have to pay them appropriately, and the national fiscus has to work with provincial and local government in working around that. That is something we really need to apply our minds to.

So, the Demarcation Board also has to take into account this new district model, if this is what we opt for, when it defines the boundaries of districts and local municipalities. We might also have to consider whether we retain the current system of districts comprising directly elected proportional representation councillors and councillors representing local municipalities, or decide on another system.

Political parties also need to encourage their more senior representatives to serve on district councils. In a certain party, the Regional Executive Committee chair or deputy chair should not be in the local municipality but in the district, because we need people who will carry political clout.

We might also have to consider whether this model might not - and we must think carefully about this - serve to marginalise rural municipalities, when our aim is to reduce the gap between urban and rural. That was the whole idea of integrating and having wall-to-wall municipalities. We should be very careful about this because the model would in fact seek to provide targeted, concentrated support to people in the rural areas.

Over time, though, the aim of the district should be to strengthen local municipalities so that they can stand alone as single-tier municipalities. All stand-alone municipalities, outside of districts, will obviously not qualify to be metros. This might mean having a special category of local municipalities. This might raise questions about the need for a possible amendment to the Constitution. If we agree consensually that the district model is not working, I can't see why we cannot get a two-thirds majority for an amendment, if it necessary - although, of course, our view will always be that we do not amend the Constitution lightly.

To strengthen districts, it will also be useful to bring them together in a national structure similar to the South African Cities Network, which brings together the metros and larger secondary cities. We should bring the districts together so that they can share information, learn lessons from each other and strengthen each other through a co-operative national structure.

These are just some proposals for now. We need much more discussion on this and other options to replace the current two-tier model. We need to ensure that the widest range of stakeholders out there in civil society and the ordinary public are involved. The maximum consultation should take place around this, so that we come to a durable solution. We don't want to decide, after five years, that it is not working. It seems to us that hon members of the NCOP can play a crucial role in fostering and encouraging such a discussion and we urge you to play that role. [Applause.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Hon Deputy Minister, I see you still had 11 minutes left. [Laughter.] Sorry, I meant 11 seconds.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 71


Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Chair, hon Minister, Deputy Minister and colleagues, let me quote what the great Martin Luther King Junior said:

We are prone to judge success by the index of our salaries or the size of our automobiles, rather than by the quality of our service and relationship to humanity.

Let me just say that this department is the heartbeat of service delivery to our people and we dare not play politics in this department. We dare not only say to this department that this is wrong, but we need to support it. We should criticise them in the right way to assist them to get services delivered to our people.

Sometimes politics can be good and sometimes it can be bad, especially when it concerns the people. Politics can be bad when people suffer and you are busy playing politics. It is not a good thing to play politics when people are suffering. It is a good thing to play politics when people are prosperous. Then you can play politics.

With regard to Operation Clean Audit, I think in most municipalities in this country it is just a pipe dream. You can't have a clean audit while your quality of service - your output - is poor. Money is not all about service delivery but about output and value for money. That is important. We need to do this thing regularly. I am glad that it is now the NCOP's system that we should be out there every second month, doing oversight visits to see if these things are happening. This is the right thing to do. [Applause.] The NCOP is always at the forefront because it is in this House where the burden of the people lies. This is the House that can bring together the national and the local.

Let me agree with the Deputy Minister concerning the careful rethinking of districts. Now is the time to rethink our strategy and what is working and what is not working. Let me say this: a man or any human being able to criticise themselves is on the right track. Those who cannot do so will never be on the right track. [Applause.]

So, we need to speak to National Treasury concerning local government. It must be very serious about budget for this department so that this department can deliver service. I believe that this House, members and the department can be a success if we support this department and help it to be aware of their mistakes. [Time expired.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): I will now call the hon M Qobushiyane, the Eastern Cape MEC for Local Government and Traditional Affairs. Hon MEC, forgive me if I did not pronounce your surname correctly, but I think I have pronounced it correctly.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 71


Mr M QOBOSHIYANE (Eastern Cape): You tried your best, Sir. Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, leadership present here, technocrats of our own democratic government, the Budget Vote you presented, hon Minister, catalyses a real sense that local government is responding to our constitutional call. As the Minister tabled his Budget Vote in both the NA and the NCOP today, it is congruent to appreciate the good work being done by his Ministry, especially in working with our provinces and municipalities to build better communities.

As the Eastern Cape, we noted a few of the challenges listed in the Minister's speech. Having witnessed these and certain other challenges akin to them, we have developed various mechanisms to address all matters that have the potential to delay and derail service delivery in our own province. Our municipalities, which are at the coalface of service delivery, are the primary implementing arm of our programme of building better communities.

The seamless execution of the department-led plans before and after the election has contributed to the relative stability of municipalities. To date, 96% of ward committees have been elected. Undivided attention was paid to aligning the efforts of various spheres of government for accelerated service delivery. The King Sabata Dalindyebo Presidential Intervention Project is a shining example of what we can do together. The major highlights include but are not limited to the upgrading of various projects such as the Mthatha Airport, bulk water supply and Mqanduli Milling Plant. The total number of temporary jobs created are 2 480. All 45 municipalities were supported to develop and adopt their Integrated Development Plans to achieve coherence in service delivery.

In pursuance of the ANC's accountability commitment, we in the Eastern Cape province signed the service delivery agreements with all 45 mayors, municipal managers and chief financial officers. In this regard, intergovernmental monitoring mechanisms are in place.

In line with the provincial effort to curb fraud and corruption, 22 investigations were conducted and tabled in municipal councils for them to take action based on the recommendations made.

In collaboration with the Office of the Premier, we have rolled out anticorruption awareness programmes in municipalities. Furthermore, a provincial legal advisory forum was launched for legislative compliance in local government, uniformity in the legal interpretation and the sharing of best practices.

The department received an unqualified audit opinion for the 2010-11. Of course, we must deliver a clean audit this time around too. The flagship programme of Operation Clean Audit, which enjoins us all, saw considerable improvement in the audit outcomes of municipalities.

Hon members, the triple challenge of poverty, inequality and unemployment still confronts us in a real way. We move forward with fresh vigour to build an efficient, effective, accountable and responsive local government system and traditional leadership institutions.

Moving forward, our set imperatives will be implemented using the department's financial appropriated budget on good governance. We will be intensifying our efforts with provincial treasury to provide hands-on support to municipalities to improve their audit findings.

The amount of R42,9 million has been set aside to advance Operation Clean Audit support to 19 municipalities with adverse and disclaimer audit opinions. Some municipalities have not experienced even a grain of an unqualified audit or audit outcome ever since the dawn of democracy. Whether that is a reality or not, it is something we are not proud of. In addition, R6,2 million will be channelled to improve financial management, monitoring by oversight structures and records management in targeted municipalities. Attraction, retention and development programmes of section 56 managers will be enabled through the investment of R2,2 million.

Amendments to the Municipal Systems Act created space for the department to participate actively in the hiring of section 56 managers, with the powers of approving and disapproving appointments now requiring concurrence with the offices of the MECs to ascertain compliance.

To address the cancer of fraud and corruption, we plan to vet members of the senior management services and those in strategic areas such as supply chain management. We are aiming for 100% in the disclosure of conflict of interests.

I am also pleased to report back in this budget debate that in the year 2011-12 we have assisted municipalities to collect R454,8 million of debt owed by the provincial government.

The integration and harmonisation of the efforts of the various spheres so that we can realise the province's plans for infrastructure development in the local sphere is key. We are proud to host the best MuniMec meetings countrywide and remain the entry point of co-ordination for the services delivered by municipalities, working together with all spheres of government, organs of state and parastatals, as well as the private sector.

As the Minister said, our improving quarterly MuniMec meetings are one of our progressive platforms to beef up co-ordination in the province and ensure an improved, single window of co-ordination as part of building better communities.

We will support the implementation of the Community Works programme and aim to reach a target of 20 700 beneficiaries by the end of the 2012-13 financial year in the following local municipalities: Gariep, Senqu, Elundini, Matatiele, Mzimvubu, Mbizana, Mhlontlo, Sakhisizwe, Ingquza Hill, King Sabata Dalindyebo, Mbashe, Intsika Yethu, Amahlathi, Buffalo City, Ngqushwa and Ikwezi.

In conclusion, we have worked with the Provincial House of Traditional Leaders to elect their new members. These members are being inducted and we are optimistic that their work will benefit the people they serve. The House crafted and implemented the monitoring and intervention strategy to ensure the safe passage of our young boys to manhood.

Traditional leaders have been nominated to take part in municipal councils to enhance good governance. Plans are at an advanced stage to induct traditional leaders to discharge their responsibilities in the municipal councils within the confines of the law. The amount of R7 million has been set aside to construct and renovate traditional councils. Members of the committee on traditional disputes and claims have been appointed, with a budget of R1,5 million.

We will work with national government to define the role of traditional leadership within the new system of democratic governance and R15 million has been set aside for policy and legislative development, a capacitation programme for traditional leaders and rural development initiatives.

As we are all aware, we now have the Amended Local Government Municipal Systems Act. Among other things, it accentuates the role of MECs in the appointment of municipal managers in municipalities. MECs must attend to the issue of the employment of political party office bearers in municipal management positions. As the Eastern Cape, hon Minister, we must add our voice to the call for the finalisation of regulations that regulate this particular area. Also of importance is the rationalisation of the salaries of municipal managers.

In relation to the Nhlapo Commission, we propose that consideration be given to the setting of timeframes for the implementation of the recommendations of this commission. Perpetual court challenges cost the public purse and take money away from other service delivery items to be spent on legal matters, because we are expected to brief senior counsel to defend our own government. If this matter could be concluded, I think 90% of traditional affairs challenges in provinces could be solved.

In conclusion, we have encouraged all councillors, led by the mayors, to open various platforms for communication because many of our people these days do not necessarily attend our izimbizo and so on. Media platforms have been created so that leadership can interact and have these unmediated communications with their constituencies. We hope they will heed this call, as it will bring them closer to the scores of our own people who use these platforms as their tools of communication. It is my pleasure and singular honour to also pledge my loyal support to this Budget Vote. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Let me remind members that in terms of Rule 32 no member may converse aloud during a debate in the Council.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 72


Mr D V BLOEM: Thank you very much, Chairperson. It is very late and I am not Gouda, but it looks as if Gouda was baptised.

Let me start by saying that our municipalities and local government are in a serious crisis - very serious. When we look at our communities, we can see only hardship and pain on the faces of our people. Look at how our townships have degenerated because incompetent and unqualified people - friends and relatives - have been appointed in senior strategic positions.

Not a day passes that you don't see delivery protests on TV and in newspapers. The scariest part is that they are becoming more and more violent yet you see how women, the youth and young children are at the forefront of these protests. One message that comes loud and clear from these communities is that they are sick and tired of empty promises. This is a warning to the ruling party from the people. They are saying, "Our patience is not endless."

I can't think of any province where people are not up in arms over the lack of municipal services, from Cape Town to the Free State. In today's Sowetan it is reported that residents of Bethulie in the Free State can't even get into their houses. According to the front-page story of the Sowetan, they can't get into their houses! Look at what is written here - it is unparliamentary: "Residents swim into ..." Their homes are surrounded by sewerage. It's a disgrace! Where is Operation Hlasela?

Listen to what one resident of Bethulie is saying: "We no longer cook or eat in this house because of the unbearable stench." Listen to what her neighbour is saying: "We have been living like this for many years without any assistance from government."

Minister, the lives of human beings are at stake here. These people are dying a slow death. This is very sad. People are no longer there to serve the communities, they want to eat alone.

Let me conclude by saying, Minister, don't wait for an area like Bethulie to go up in flames and then you react. This also applies to the MECs in the provinces. What the people out there are saying is this: The only language government understands is the staging of a protest and the vandalising of scarce government resources like libraries, municipal offices and councillors' houses. It is wrong for people to do that but that is what people have come to think of as right.

My warning to the ANC is: Don't get too comfortable in the position you are in now. The people have placed you there and the people will remove you. Don't take the people for granted. That is a very serious warning to the ruling party. I thank you. [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Order, hon Maine! [Interjections.] Hon Bloem, take your seat, please. Thank you.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 72


Mr M N MASUKU (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, let me start by saying that what the Minister was speaking about was a response to the practical challenges and limitations that we feel we are confronted with in the municipalities. I must therefore say to the members of the House that we are indeed with the people in Mpumalanga, despite all the challenges we have due to the objective limitations inherent in our budgets.

Our ward committees are fully operational in all our wards. Our traditional councils are intact and they interact with these challenges. When we started at the beginning of this term, we actually took our municipalities through all the challenges that they are going to face. They are well aware of the limitations on how far they can go.

At the beginning of the term, we identified that in Mpumalanga only four municipalities had the infrastructure needed to be run as municipalities. They had what it took to deliver services and also to collect revenue at the local government level. We also realise that five of our municipalities are from former homeland areas, where there was no infrastructure for service delivery or revenue collection, and all of them are dependant. If you look at the areas where most of the protests are found, you will see that they are in Bushbuckridge, Nkomazi, J S Moroka, Albert Luthuli – these are the municipalities with that history.

We also realised that nine of our municipalities are in small towns. Small towns have faced an influx of new people coming into the area with the hope of a better life there. They hoped that they would have services but because those towns are actually small, they cannot carry them all. These towns are actually facing a challenge. The reach of the basic services that they are expected to give cannot cover the extra numbers that they actually have there. I have also recognised that among these towns there are those that can stand on their own and those that cannot.

We therefore agreed collectively that all of us had to work towards the stabilisation of local government, politically and administratively. Since the inception of the new term, we agreed that we had to stabilise this. We have to stabilise the relationship between the Whippery, the Executive and the Speaker's Offices because so often these have been the ones who have been distorting communication from the Council to the people and ourselves.

We need to create stability in other administrative areas by making sure that all administrative posts are filled with the right people who have the right qualifications. The legislation that has come in, saying that the MECs should play a role, has actually helped because now, when we are filling posts, there is an interaction with our local municipalities to verify that the right people are indeed in place. So, hon Bloem, those things are of the past. The legislation does not say that we must look after colleagues and friends and so on. It says: Look at the qualifications of the people who are supposed to serve the people on the ground. [Interjections.]

To this end we have agreed that by the end of this financial year - at the end of this month of June - we should have concluded all strategic posts. No municipality in Mpumalanga may go beyond this point - beyond the end of June - so that the delivery of services is not compromised because somebody is not able to do their work.

We did this because the Auditor-General pointed out to us that in some areas our budget did not speak to our IDPs and most of our IDPs were actually facing a challenge. So, throughout this year, we have been hard at work, making sure that the municipalities' IDPs were credible and that there was a link between the budget and the needs of the people. We can now say to the Minister that we are confident about the work that is happening now and we are sure that we are able to achieve our goals.

The other area of work that is critical is the issue of clean audits. Resulting from the work we have been doing and which I have been talking about, we managed to have four clean audits out of the 18 municipalities in Mpumalanga. We are now hard at work this year to ensure that by the end of this year we have no adverse audit or disclaimer in Mpumalanga. [Applause.] We are putting all possible controls in place to make sure that at the end of the day, by the end of this year, we will have an increase in municipalities with clean audits. And it is not clean audits because of the prudent usage of money only. We want clean audits because of the prudent use of money for the right purpose and for the right areas of work.

Our performance in terms of our Municipal Infrastructure Grant is not that good. Our average is now hovering at 50%. At least we have increased from last year this time, when it was around 25%. We are putting in greater effort to make sure that these needed resources are actually dealt with and that we spend appropriately. We believe that in the new financial year, all the money will have been spent according to the needs.

I must not forget to indicate once more that we are on a crusade, collectively with the executive council, to make sure that the campaign of payment for services is successful. We are starting with ourselves, the provincial government and the municipalities. In the previous year we managed to collect as much as R7 million. This was because we dealt with all the accounts that were in arrears. At present, what we owe municipalities is actually at current.

So, what are we looking at now? We indicated in the last PCF, which we had on Friday, that we must look at anything that is owing for more than two months. It must be cleared off in the next three months by the provincial department. Municipalities have also been instructed that they must clear their accounts with Eskom and Water Affairs so that services can start working and be facilitated so that they can reach the people.

Finally, Minister, I must indicate that we have strengthened our participatory governance, as I indicated, by having our ward committees and all our structures in place. I want to say that we should thank the Minister. When he took office, he promised to improve the response of national government in terms of disaster management issues. Within one month the Minister has already managed to process all the disaster-related requests that we have made in this financial year, even putting in the first payments. [Applause.] Within three months, the team had managed to consolidate what it was that we needed to do in the long term. We appreciate that, Minister, and we will work closely with you to ensure that those things happen.

We are hard at work to make sure that the relationship between the traditional leaders and municipalities are adding value to our work on a day-to-day basis. One aspect of what is a priority for this financial year is to ensure that all disputes are settled so that people do not focus on that. The committee has already been established and those aspects are being attended to.

So, Minister, Mpumalanga supports your budget and we hope it will take us a long way towards where we want to go. We believe that we will be working closely with you to ensure that our municipalities are viable. We welcome the input by the Deputy Minister as well in relation to responding to the various municipalities because, as I said at the beginning, our municipalities are differentiated and they require a different response. [Applause.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 73


Mong T M H MOFOKENG: Ke a leboha, Modulasetulo. Ho Letona le hlomphehang le Motlatsa-Letona; le Maloko a Kgabane a Ntlo - ke tlotla ho nna ho nka karolo dingangisanong tsena kgweding eo re ketekang karolo e bapetsweng ke batjha ba rona ntweng ya boitseko.

Boemo ba Afrika Borwa jwalo ka naha e holang bo fana ka diphephetso tse ngata mebusong ya mahae, e leng karolo ya puso e haufi haholoholo le batho. Ho feta moo, ke maikemisetso a mmuso le setjhaba ho sebedisana mmoho maemong ohle ka toka ... [Kenello.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order, hon member! Hon Faber?

Mr W F FABER: Hon Chair, I have no interpretation service. I don't know if there is a problem with interpretation. Please help! There is no English or Afrikaans interpretation.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Okay, we will sort it out now, hon Faber. Can we get the interpretation service, please? Carry on, hon member.


Mnr T M H MOFOKENG: Voorsitter, moet ek voortgaan?

Die TYDELIKE VOORSITTER (Mnr F Adams): Ja, u kan maar voortgaan. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Gelag.]


Mong T M H MOFOKENG: Ho feta moo, ke maikemisetso a mmuso le setjhaba ho sebedisana mmoho maemong ohle ka toka le kutlwisisano ho potlakisa ditlhoko tsa phepelo ya ditshebeletso le mokotaba o etsang kgonahalo ya ho feta le ho fihlella mefuta e fapaneng ya batho ba rona.

Hobane tsohle tseo etswang mmuso o di etsang di tshwanela ho kenngwa tshebetsong boemong ba puso ya sebaka, ho bohlokwa hore puso ya sebaka e kenye tshebetsong mosebetsi wa mmuso ka tshwanelo. E tshwanela ho matlafatswa ka ho nka boikarabelo ba yona ka tshwanelo. Ka ho fapana, puso tsa dibaka di na le bofokodi. Sena se ka reketlisa naha. Ka bobedi naha le puso ya selehae di hlalositswe ka kotloloho mme di amana haholo Molaotheong. Ha o shebile maemo a puso ya dibaka, mmoho le mesebetsi ya yona ya ntshetsopele, bomasepala, ntle le diphephetso tsa bona, ka bokgoni ba bona ba ditjhelete,ba tshwanela ho fihlella dipehelo tsena.

Tshebetso ya bomasepala e ntse e le ka sehlohlolong ho tse putlamisang boiteko ka hohlehohle ba mmuso ba tshebetso ka tshwanelo maemong a fapaneng. Ke tshita e le nngwe e emeng tseleng ya mmuso ho fihlella puso ya dibaka e arabellang ka diphetho tsa ditlhoko. Ntle le ho thonyolla dikarolo tsa bofokodi ba mebuso ya selehae, bakeng sa kopano ena, ke tla tsepama ntlheng tsa bohlokwa jwalo ka ha di hlalositswe ke Mohlahlobi-Kakaretso wa Dibuka ha a bua ka ngongoreho e mpe e mabapi le maemo a puso ya dibaka tsa selehae; le ho latela dipehelo.

Mohlahlobi-Kakaretso wa Dibuka o hlahisitse ngongoreho e kgolo malebana le bomasepala ba bang bao e bang le kajeno ha ba e so ka ba thea Dikomiti tsa Tlhahlobo ya Bomasepala. Jwaloka mokgwa o phethahetseng wa taolo, ke tshwanelo le tlameho hore bomasepala ba be le dikomiti tsa tlhahlobo tse sebetsang ho etsa mosebetsi wa tekolo le seabo sa tiiso malebana le tshebetso ya ditjhelete le tsamaiso bomasepaleng.

Ke boikarabelo ba ditheo tsena tsa dibaka ho ikamahanya le tlhoko ena ya molao esita le ho teka dikananyo tsohle tsa bolaodi le tshebediso tsa ditjhelete, ho akga le direkoto tsa diqeto tsa bolaodi bo akaretsang ba thepa komiting ena e le ho matlafatsa boikarabelo. Ha Komiti ya bohlokwa hakaalo e le siyo, re ke ke ra lebella ho atleha Letsholong la rona la Tlhatlhobo e Ntlafetseng ya Dibuka [Operation Clean Audit].

Ho bohlokwa hore bomasepala ba sebetse ka thata ho ntlafatsa boemo ba boikamahanyo ba bona hona jwale, hore ba tle ba kgone ho fihlella dipehelo tsa 2014 le hofeta moo.

Ho a tsebisahala hore bomasepala ba bang ba neng ba sebetsa hantle pejana ba nyotobetse hona hoo le Mohlahlobi-Kakaretso wa Dibuka a sa kgoneng le ho ntsha maikutlo malebana le boemo ba bomasepala ba swahlamaneng hakaalo ba bile ba sebetsa hampe. Lefapha le koptjwa ho hetla morao ho bona seo le ileng la se etsa ho thusa bomasepala ba jwalo, le hore na ebe ho na le merero efe kapa efe e teng ya ntlafatso ya phano ya ditshebeletso ka mekgwatsamaiso e totobetseng e ka sehloohong e tla fetola mawa. Sena se tla thusa ho saleng morao tekolo le tiiso ya tshebetso.

E nngwe ya diqholotso tse ka sehloohong eo bomasepala ba tobaneng le yona, jwaloka ha di bonahetse nakong ya tekolo, ke ho ata ha boetapele bo tsheremang; ditikoloho tsa botsamaisi; le taolo tse fokolang. Sena se tshwanela ho nkelwa hloohong hobane diketso tsa tsamaiso e mpe, manyampetla le manyofonyofo di etsahala ka katleho tikolohong ya mosebetsi e nang le morearea moo ho nang le boetapele bo tsheremang kapa bo fokolang, bosiyo ba botsamaisi bo botle le taolo ya ditokoloho.

Re tlalehile ka diqhwebeshano tsa boetapele ba dipolotiki boemong ba mmuso wa dibaka: bomajoro ba ha ba sebedisane hantle le Dikomiti tsa Phethahatso; batsamaisi ba dipuisano ba inkela matla matsohong ebe ba tlola melawana ya tsamaiso; balekgotla ba sebetsa ka mamulwana ba a lwantshana, mme seo se sisithehisa phano ya ditshebeletso.

Maemong a mang, ka lebaka la ho se dumellane ho sa feleng malebana le sepheo le ntho tse ka sehloohong, phano ya ditshebeletso e ile ya ameha haholo kapa ya se natswe. Lefapha le na le boikarabelo bo ke keng ba qojwa ba ho tsamaisa, ho tataisa, ho laola le ho disa tshebetso ya bomasepala hoo ho bang ha fanwa ka tshehetso ya ho bea letsoho mohomeng. Molemong wa ntlafatso ya ponaletso le matlafatso ya boikarabelo, lefapha le koptjwa ho tlaleha hore na entse kgatelopele efe ho fetola boemo bo renang bomasepaleng ba jwalo.

Maemo ana a ditaba a bakile hore boholo ba setjhaba bo qhwebeshane le Lekgotla ka mokgwa wa boipelaetso ba phano ya ditshebeletso, moo baahi ba bangata ba belaellang ka bokgoni ba moloko o teng wa Makgotla, o bonahalang o bea ditabatabelo tsa wona kapele, ho e-na le tsa setjhaba se sebeletswang.

Ditlwaelo tse jeleng setsi tsa bobodu le manyofonyofo di bakile maemo a mabe bomasepaleng ba bang. Mona re bua ka diketso tse totileng tsa manyofonyofo le tsamaiso e mpe tse entseng hore ditjhelete tse neng di abetswe diporojeke tsa phano ya ditshebeletso di iswe diporojekeng tse ding tseo balekgotla le basebetsi ba folang molemo ho tsona. Ka lebaka la diketso tsa bobodu le manyofonyofo, mmuso o ile wa tlameha ho kena dipakeng ho latela Karolo 139 ya Molaotheo. [Kenello.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Hon Faber?

Mr W F FABER: I would like to know if the hon member will take a question because, based on what he is saying, he seems to be a DA Member of Parliament. [Interjections.] It seems that the hon Mofokeng is saying that the ANC local governments are failing. I just want to know if that is what he meant to say. [Interjections.] That is how the interpretation makes it seem. Perhaps I just got it wrong.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Continue, hon Mofokeng.


Mong T M H MOFOKENG: Ha ke ne ke re ke tla nka potso ya hae, ke ne ke nahanne hore o tla mpotsa potso e hlaphohetsweng; jwale o mpotsa e sa hlaphohelwang. Ha ke na ho e araba! [Applause.]

Le hoja ho le teng ntlafalo e babatsehang bomasepaleng ba bang moo ho bileng le bokena-dipakeng, bomasepala ba bang ba fapana le ho ntlafala; ba a hlepha ho fihlela e ba ditheo tse tletseng hlakantsutsu le ho fatalla hoo di bileng di hlolehang le ho fana ka ditshebeletso tsa motheo. Mohlala: ha jwale Masepala wa Sebaka wa Ngaka Modiri Molema profenseng ya Leboya-Bophirima o thuswa lekgetlo la bobedi. Ho makatsang ke hore keng e etsang hore bokena-dipakeng bo hlolehe ho sebetsa ho fihlela moo ho bang le tlhokeho ya ho fetela mokgahlelong o mong wa bona.

Ho etsahetseng ka Morero wa Phetolo ya Mawa wa Bomasepala o reretsweng ho lokisa diketso tse totileng... [Kenello.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order, hon Mofokeng. Hon Faber? [Interjections.]

Mr W F FABER: Thank you, Chair. I just want to make sure because I am totally confused. What the interpretation is saying and what the hon Mofokeng means must be two different things. From my understanding, this is a failure of the ANC government. I want to make sure that I am getting it right. Thank you! [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Hon member, I thought you said you didn't understand, hence you wanted interpretation. However, now you are saying to us that what you heard in the interpretation and what the hon member is saying are two different things. Continue, hon Mofokeng. [Laughter.]


Mr T M H MOFOKENG: Ho etsahetseng ka Morero wa Phetolo ya Mawa wa Bomasepala o reretsweng ho lokisa diketso tse totileng tsa tshebetso e mpe, ho se ikamahanye, bolaodi le tshebetso e mpe ditjheleteng, manyampetla le bonyofonyofo? Ke eng e thibetseng ho kenngwa tshebetsong ha merero ee? Ebile sefe seabo sa mafapha a Diprovense le a naha ho thusa ho lokisa maemo?

Molao o totobetse ka se tlamehang ho etswa malebana le diketso tsa manyampetla le manyofonyofo mme ho ya ka diphumano tsa yona, Komiti ya Tekolo e sisintse hore ho nkuwe dikgato tsa molao kgahlanong le bohle ba fumanwang ba tlotse molao. Ntle le tshisinyo ena, bomasepala ba bang ha ba e-so etse letho ka diketsahalo tse jwalo.

Ena ke tjhelete ya balefi ba lekgetho e tlamehang ho nkelwa boikarabelo e be e kgutliswe bathong bohle ba amehang.

Lefapha le koptjwa ho hlalosa ka dikgato tse nkilweng ho thusa bomasepala ba jwalo esita le ho fana ka tlaleho ya dikgato tse nkilweng diqosong tsohle tsa manyampetla le manyofonyofo. Tlaleho e tlameha ho hlakisa haeba qosong ka nngwe kapa bomasepaleng ba amehang ho na le morero wa thibelo ya manyampetla le yuniti ya tsetollo ya manyofonyofo le hore na ke efe mehato e meng ya kahare ya taolo e seng e kentswe tshebetsong.

Ntle le setshwantsho se tekilweng malebana le kgaello kapa boemo bo bobe ba boikamahanyo bomasepaleng ba bang, ho ba bang moo bokena-dipakeng bo ileng ba amohelwa, ba sebeditse hantle lekgatheng lena, jwaloka ha direkoto le ditlaleho di bontsha. Ho tea mohlala: Masepala wa Msunduzi o KwaZulu-Natal ke se seng setheo se jwalo se bileng tlasa tsamaiso ho ya ka Karolo 139 ya Molaotheo. Ho a thabisa ho tlaleha Ntlong ena hore masepala enwa o fetotswe mawa mme ho na le kgatelopele e bonahalang. Ho bile ha hirwa le Mookamedi wa Masepala ha ba ha kwalwa le dikgeo tse ding tsa bohlokwa tseo masepala o ke keng wa atleha mosebetsing wa wona ntle le tsona.

Tlhokeho ya basebetsi ba boleng ba nang le mangolo bomasepaleng hammoho le boitsebelo ba bolaodi le ba setekgeniki bo ntse bo thunthetsa mosebetsi wa mmuso wa kabo ya ditshebeletso boemong ba mabatowa. [Kenello.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order, hon Mofokeng. Hon Faber?

Mr W F FABER: Chair, I need clarity. The interpretation says ...


Die ANC het die munisipaliteit omgekeer.


I just want to know: Did they turn it upside down the wrong way or the right way around? I am totally confused by this now. Usually it is the wrong way round. I just want to know about this, please, Mr Mofokeng.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): No, no, no! Mr Faber, take your seat, please! Hon Faber, Rule 33 reads: "No member may interrupt another member who is addressing the Chair, except to call attention to a Point of Order or a question of privilege." Now, that was neither a point of order, nor a question of privilege. Continue, hon Mofokeng. [Interjections.]


Mr T M H MOFOKENG: Ke a leboha Modulasetulo. Melawana e mengata ya mabatowa, melao le ditaelo tsohle ha di amane le boitsebelo bo hlokehang ekasitana le mananeo a ntshetsopele ya bokgoni le ho e kenya tshebetsong. Ho fetisa melao ho sa shejwa boitsebelo ba ho e kenya tshebetsong, ho bolela hore dintlha tsa ho e latela di tlodiswa mahlo ke bomasepala ba bang. Molao ha o sa kenngwe tshebetsong, o tshwana le ha o le siyo.

La ho qetela, ho tlameha ho toboketswe hore re hloka ho theha ditheo tse kgonang ho netefatsa boikarabelo ba mmuso boemong ba lebatowa; hammoho le boetapele ba sebele le kabo ya ditshebeletso ho fihlella botsitso tshebedisong ya ditjhelete tsa mmuso; ho theha maemo a tsepameng a moruo a nako e telele; ho netefatsa hore ditshebeletso tsa masepala di fihlella bohle ho sa natse hore motho o fumana moputso o mo kae; le ho dikgwebo tsohle, ho netefatsa hore ditshebeletso tsa boleng tse tswellang di fihlella batho bohle ekasitana le ho ntlafatsa maemo a moruo wa lebatowa le phano ya ditshebeletso tsa boleng ho batho bohle le tefello ya ditshebeletso hammoho le theha mmuso wa lebatowa o tsitsitseng.

Re tshehetsa ditekanyetso tsena. Ke a leboha! [Mahofi.]




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 73


The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Adams): Order! Before I call the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, let me just put it to members again that Rule 32 - and members, you are really bordering on Rule 37 – states that during a debate in the House, no member is allowed to converse aloud. If you want to have a caucus, go to your caucus room and caucus there. We are busy with a serious debate and I urge members to listen carefully, please. You may continue, hon Minister.




Wednesday, 6 June 2012 Take: 74


The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, Chairperson, and thanks, colleagues, for the issues you raised. I think the Deputy Minister is quite right that the question of two-tier system needs to be dealt with as a matter of urgency.

I thank the MECs for the points they have raised. The tea sessions will have to continue, hon MEC Bredell, because they deliver. Thank you, hon MEC Masuku, for your lecture. You know, people forget about the history of areas where we now have municipalities. They forget that there is a historical factor in the lack of services in these areas. Of course, we are not complacent, saying that we should not do anything. The issue is that people have to consider and understand the reality of the situation while we are dealing with these things. So, thanks for the points raised.

On the issue of working together, even when it comes to meeting the people, it is in that spirit that we will engage the community at the One for All summit. We definitely need to be working together.

We cannot shy away from addressing the issue of the viability or otherwise of municipalities. It is a serious issue, which was identified recently by the provinces. The Free State identified about nine of them. We then say that you should respond to the situation according to the reality on the ground.

Thank you very much, MEC from Eastern Cape, utata uQoboshiyane. Firstly, the Eastern Cape example that I referred to when I was tabling the budget in the NA was the MuniMEC issue. This is a very important practice, which should be followed by all provinces. I am making a call and I raised this at the MuniMEC: our colleagues in the provinces should do this because it does help. During the MuniMecs, we are not just talking to each other, to the ones who are present, but it is also a platform to engage with parastatals and other service providers, who can share their experience with us.

Secondly, the hon member raised a very serious issue, namely when the government owes municipalities. I want to put on record that at the end of December 2011, a total amount of R3,5 billion was owed to municipalities by government departments, both at the provincial and national level. We have taken a decision to write to our colleagues and remind them of the money they owe to municipalities. They must come forward to settle the amount immediately or commit themselves to a settlement plan - or we can challenge this: Some departments say that the municipalities are raising these issues because they have billing problems, so they challenge this. If a municipality fails to defend itself against such a challenge, then we will have to see how best we can deal with this matter.

This issue is so serious, and it is not only that government departments owe the municipalities. Municipalities themselves also owe money. What is that? We need to do something about that. For example, I have an account here of R342 million, which is owed to Eskom by municipalities. We have a list of the municipalities involved. I have a list of R505 million owed to water boards by municipalities. This is so serious and we need to address it. That is why, in our further assessment, and through engagement in the One for All Summit, we seek to address these things. When we say we are focusing on those five areas, what we mean is that we need to address these issues.

Thank you very much, hon members, for the points you raised. We will take them as our cue. In the interests of time you mentioned only certain municipalities. When we go to Limpopo, for instance, we will look at the situation of Polokwane and Phalaborwa, which you raised, because these two municipalities top the list of those that are owed money by government departments. We have to establish what is at the centre of this because, at the end of the day, we will all be saying that these municipalities are not performing, yet we are not addressing the underlying issues.

Thirdly, hon Bloem, the last time I was here we belonged to the same party. [Interjections.] Of course, the points you raised appear on the front page of the Sowetan today. Yes, that situation is totally unacceptable. The mayor is quoted as saying that the area had been in that position for a long time - almost two years - but that they were now going to fix it in "a question of weeks". Why had he not fixed it if he knew what the situation was? We commit to investigating that matter and the Chairperson of the select committee will table a report. We will come back to you to say what has transpired because this situation is unacceptable. We know the newspapers may write stories, but there is no dispute about what was reported in this case and, of course, we definitely need to address that. [Applause.]

Fourthly, hon MEC Qoboshiyane, you raised a very important issue that we need to discuss, namely the finalisation of the litigation against the decisions of the Nhlapho Commission. You are raising a very important point. You know, the thing is that Nhlapho dealt with and finalised 18 cases. But look at how much is involved - the toing and froing to court and from court and stuff like that. We have a backlog of 1 244 disputes and claims concerning traditional leadership. If 18 cases take us this long, what will happen when we deal with 1 244 cases? It is a very serious issue. We welcome the idea that we need to discuss this matter.

Fifthly, hon Matila, we wouldn't like to be seen doing this only for Mpumalanga, because what the MEC has indicated is correct. We build in-house capacity to expedite the assessment of disaster damage, so that we expedite the payment and settlement thereof. So, maybe you want to engage – and I will appreciate that - so that I get information about the areas you are talking about. Then we can investigate and settle these matters. The problem is that when you delay settling these challenges, you don't know when next disaster is going to strike in an area. At the end of the day, when you go there, you find the reality is that the area has been subjected to situations of disaster more than once. This is a serious problem, but we are actually addressing it. That is why we said that instead of relying on service providers from outside, let us build in-house capacity so that we can deal with these matters.

Lastly, all other issues raised will be responded to. We know what members said here is very important. We will therefore refer to the recordings of Hansard and respond to all the issues raised. You are not saying these things just for the sake of saying them. You are saying them because we are all responsible public representatives. Therefore, we have to take care of whatever has been raised. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 20:00.


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